True Crime All The Time - Scarlett Jenkinson and Eddie Ratcliffe

Episode Date: November 18, 2024

Scarlett Jenkinson was a troubled teen who transferred schools due to a serious incident involving another student. At her new school, she met Brianna Ghey, a lonely girl who needed a friend. The relationship turned deadly.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss Scarlett Jenkinson and Eddie Ratcliffe. Scarlett became obsessed with Brianna and spent weeks plotting her murder with her friend Eddie Ratcliffe. But Brianna wasn't the only person the duo had plotted to kill. The two had made a "kill list," and they were intent on carrying it out. How do two fifteen-year-olds get to the point where they're plotting murders in their spare time? You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 410 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in True Crime, Mike Gibson. Give me, how are you? Hey, I'm doing good. I'm going to start clapping my hands for some reason. Because you were excited? It's like, you know, hey. Hey, everybody. Gibby's in the house. Hey, let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. We had Krista Taylor jump out to our highest level. Wow. Thanks, Krista. Bister. Well, thanks, Beester. M.B. What's going on, M.B. Laura. Well, good old Laura. Alicia Trab. Hey, Alicia. Kimberly Kinsey. What's going on, Kinsey? Bianca. Hey, thanks, Bianca. Melissa

Caban or Caban. Okay. Yeah, I'll go with that. David Sissitka. That's a tough one. That's what I'm going with. Well, thanks Scystka. Vicki. Hey, Vicki. Glorious Sleeper. What's going on, Gloria. And last but not least, Laura Felker. Hey, Felker. Gotta be careful there. You do. You do. So thanks, everyone, for the new Patreon support.

And then if we go back into the vault. This week, we selected Andrew Greenwell. Well, thanks, Greenwell. Yeah, we appreciate the Patreon folks who stay with us long term. We also had a great PayPal donation from Charles Thompson. Wow, cool. Thanks, Charles. Yeah.

Thank you to everyone. So Gibbs, right now, we have a brand new episode. on true crime all the time unsolved, where we're talking about Sheree McGarrick. And Sheree was last seeing, leaving her fiance's home in Maryland just ahead of a blizzard. She had plans to return home to Pennsylvania,

but she was never seen again. Now, her car was found abandoned, and there was quite a bit of evidence, and we'll get into all the details. So make sure you check it out. Absolutely. Good case. All right, buddy, we're wasting no time. You're ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time? Let's dive in. We are talking about Scarlett Jenkinson and Eddie Rackler. Scarlett Jenkinson was a troubled team who transferred schools due to a pretty serious incident involving another student.

At her new school, she met a lonely girl who needed a friend. Scarley became obsessed with this girl. but things turned really badly and we'll get into all the details. We first start off talking about Brianna Gay. She was born on November 7, 2006. She was just 16 years old when she was murdered. Brianna transitioned at the age of 15. In an interview with the BBC, her mother, Esther Gay, said that Brianna was fearless to be,

whoever she wanted to be. And we're hearing more and more about this. We have in the last five, 10 years. There's been a lot more awareness of the issues surrounding, you know, gender identity and all of that. I think we've all become much more educated

about these types of things than we were before. Oh, for sure. Definitely more conversations being had than I've ever. experienced around this subject. And a lot of conversations in a positive manner. Absolutely. Yeah. So Brianna wanted to identify as a female and she wanted to wear the girls school uniform. She just did it. It wasn't a hurdle at all for her. That's what her mom said. Brianna's parents are divorced. And she lived primarily with her mother in Birchwood, England.

So I probably should have mentioned this up front, but we are traveling across the pond. Good little British. For this one. You didn't want me to do my British. Yeah, I wish you could branch out and say something other than Brash. Britain. Yeah, because that's so much different. Brand his father was not supportive of her transition.

And because of it, they had a falling out. They reconciled in the months before she died. and he did accept her transition. He thought that Brianna seemed outgoing and happier. And, you know, let's face it, Gibbs, this is not easy for every parent. No, it's going to be different for every individual out there. It is. You know, some people are more accepting of these types of things than others, just in general.

Yeah. And then you're going to have, when it is closer to home. home, right? It's your child. People are going to have to make that decision for themselves. Can they be supportive even if it's not something they're crazy about? And I imagine there's probably a lot of families out there struggling with that. Yeah. Right now. Brana wanted to be famous. And she did build up a large following on TikTok. She often posted makeup tutorials. According to the BBC, although Brana had thousands. thousands of followers. In real life, she was shy and struggled with her mental health. She rarely

left home except to go to school. Well, look, we know who you are in the real world and who you are on social media can be very different. Yeah, I don't think there's any doubt about that. I mean, if you think about all these different influencers or people trying to make money on social media, whether it's Instagram, TikTok, you know, you name it. I'm sure there are a lot of people who are on camera just like they are in real life. But I have a feeling an even larger population of these individuals. You know, they're, I don't want to say putting on an act, but they're playing a part. Yeah.

Many of them. Sure. According to the Guardian, Brianna's online world was very, toxic and she was deemed at risk of sexual exploitation. And you've heard me talk about social media for years. It is not my favorite thing. And I'm sure I don't win a lot of people over by saying that because many people love social media. Some are addicted to social media. I just find it to be very toxic. Yeah. And maybe some of that is because of what you and I do, putting ourselves out there, you are going to get a lot of negativity.

Sure you are. Anytime you put yourself out there. Her mother was concerned about her online interactions, but Brianna refused to give her access to her phone and Brianna's school could not take the device from her either. Esther Gray would later write that Brianna was following self-harm and anorexia groups online. She developed an eating disorder and was hospitalized at one point. Pretty alarming for a parent. Yeah, I'd be alarmed, you know, if I discovered that one of my daughters was, you know,

following these types of groups online or was having these types of issues, you know, obviously my first thought would be, you know, I want to try to get them help. But I just wonder how much of this has to do with, you know, putting yourself out there. being on video all the time? Was she getting negative comments? Right. Which led to thinking she needed to lose weight or something like that. And I think there is a risk in that.

That's part of the toxicity. Yeah, it had to do it for sure. Esther wrote at one point, it felt like if there was anything negative in the world, she'd latch onto it. The Guardian reported that Brianna was diagnosed with autism and ADHD. She spent a lot of time online and was following behind in school. According to Esther's statement, I can't believe what a change Brianna went through.

When she was little, she was this little energetic ball of joy. But in her later years, she was immersed in darkness. It feels like I'm grieving two different people. And what an interesting statement that is. Yeah. Grieving her young version.

as the child that she knew and raised and then grieving her as this person that she became before she died. In the fall of 2022, Brianna met a 15-year-old girl named Scarlett Jenkinson. Scarlett later told the police that they became friends after Brianna complimented her eyeliner. Scarlett lived with her parents in the village of Colchette. easy for you to say. Well, I don't know if I said it correctly. I've never heard of that place in England. The BBC reported about Scarlett to the outside world. Photos on social media painted a picture of a happy childhood with family days out at the beach, pony riding, birthday parties, and a loving relationship with her grandparents. Well, we also know how that

is not always the reality. Well, what does it go back to? You know, you and I talk about this a lot. People put out, I think for the most part, what they want the world to see. And, you know, you're going to put out happy stuff. You're going to make it seem as though you're living life. Some people even embellish it a little bit

and make it seem as though they're doing better financially than what they're doing or they're happier than what they really are. However, at the age of 14, Scarlett developed a fascination with videos of murder and torture on the dark web and also of serial killers. So let's break that down. A fascination with serial killers. There are going to be a lot of people listening who would, if being honest, have to put themselves into that category.

Sure. I don't think there's anything wrong with a fascination of serial killers. No. You know, when it comes to, you know, the fascination being about how could these people do what they do? What makes them tick? You know, what kind of made them into a serial killer? That's kind of the heart of the true crime population. Yeah, as long as it's not the type of fascination where you admire.

Right. and or are trying to emulate. Right. Yeah. Now, this fascination with videos of murder and torture and especially, you know, getting on to the dark web. Okay. That's not what most people do. First of all, I don't know how many people listening right now have even been on the dark web.

I know you were kind of instrumental in pioneering it and, and therefore, no, a lot about it. I myself have never even been on it. That you're willing to admit? No, I have no idea even how you do it. And I would be too scared to even try it, just assuming that the minute I logged on or however you do it, I would be hacked. Because I just assume that's what would happen to me. But from my understanding, there's not much you can't find on there. Sadly. Scarlett met Brianna at Birchwood High School in Warrington, England. Scarlett transferred there in November 22. She and Brianna had the same time slot in a supervised study area.

Brianna did her lessons here because of her mental health. Scarlett transferred schools because of an incident that occurred in September 2022. She gave a 13-year-old student an edible without telling her what it was. The girl became sick. The police were called, but the victim's family decided not to press charges and allowed the school to handle the incident. Well, that's just wrong. It's very wrong. First of all, this girl's 13 years old.

So, you know, where is she getting an edible in the first place? And I'm assuming that the girl she gave it to was fairly young as well. You know, this is a person who has never. done that depending on how strong that thing was man yeah you could really mess somebody up i mean it's one thing if you knowingly want to you know have an edible try that experience i'm not saying that a 13 year old should i'm just saying it's one thing if you go into it knowing what it is yeah at least you have that expectation right yeah it's a completely different thing if you're If you think it's a cookie, a regular cookie, and the next thing you know, you're tripping balls.

Did you just say tripping balls? Yeah, I don't know. That's an expression that people used to use back when I was younger. I don't actually know what it means. I was getting ready to ask you. You want to explain tripping balls? I actually can't. Scarlett's transfer to Birchwood was designed to reduce her risk of

permanent exclusion and give her a second chance. And, you know, that makes sense to me. You know, I don't know how the school was going to handle it, but I could see an expulsion or, you know, something like that being the end result. So it sounds like maybe they were trying to get ahead of that and just say, hey, you know, she needs a clean start. She might get expelled anyway, so let's find her a new school. Been there done that. But Scarlett was only at Birchwood for about 10 weeks. The school wanted to end her transfer due to low attendance.

Emma Mills, Birchwood's head teacher told the BBC in February 2024 that the school agreed to the transfer and was aware. Scarlett took cannabis to school. BBC News reported that the school was not aware, Scarlett drugged another student. And those are two different things, right? Not great to take cannabis to school, but you're taking it to a different level when you're drugging someone without their knowledge. Yeah, when you take it from personal use to using it on somebody else.

Emma Mills said about Scarlett, I'd had meetings with her and her mom before she came here and with a senior teacher from her school. And we just talked through what happened, that led to the school asking her to come here on a placement. We talked about our school rules and we agreed targets for her to meet. And she came across as very polite, which I think you would need to do. If you need to get into this school.

Now, it does shock me that it's kind of like she has this second chance, but doesn't attend classes. Right. It seems to me like she's almost in self-destrochews. struck mode at this point. Like she really just doesn't care. Yeah. Scarlett's friendship continued through the fall of 2022 and into early 2003. The girl spent some time together outside of school.

Brianna's mother, though never met Scarlett, but Brianna did talk about her. Esther was happy Brianna had a friend because she worried she was lonely. And I can imagine there are a lot of parents out there who can sympathize. with that. You know, you know, that, that adolescent age is tough. Friends come and go. I remember my oldest seemed like she had a new best friend about every year. Yeah. And something would happen. And then they were no longer friends. And so I remember the same thing with my daughter that, you know, new friend, you know, because the other friend and her got into an argument. And, you know, my boy didn't have that problem. Maybe guys just, you know, they get in a fight, they get over it or whatever,

but my daughter got in a lot of disagreements that ended friendships for a day or two or longer, but then... Or forever. Or forever. Head teacher Emma Mills said there were no red flags. They indicated something was off about Scarlett's friendship with Brianna. Since December 22, Scarlett, though, had been plotting to kill Brianna with her longtime friend Eddie Ratcliffe, who was also 15 at this time. Scarlett and Eddie had known each other since they were 11 and maintained their friendship after she transferred schools.

Now, this is going to scare a lot of parents. You know, your daughter meets somebody new. And by all appearances, seems as though she has been. has a new friend. What you don't know as a parent is that behind the scenes, this person is plotting to kill your daughter. Yeah. You know, you're excited. She's got a new, like you said, got a new friend. Things are looking up. You're feeling positive about this relationship. And then unfortunately, like you said, in the background, the stuff has happened. Something is going on. Eddie Ratcliffe was described as a quiet and studious boy.

Based on social media posts, Eddie appeared to be close with his family. He lived with his parents and siblings in Lee, England. Eddie did well in school and kickboxing. He actually represented England in the world kickboxing championships and won silver. So he's not that good. Because you would have won gold. Exactly. Obviously.

Scarlett told Eddie about her friendship with Brianna. She said she was upset. with her. Okay. What does that mean? To me, you know, at that age, to be obsessed with someone, I would take that as, you know, you're in love with them, you're infatuated with them. You want to be with them all the time. Right. Have you ever been obsessed with somebody? Maybe, allegedly, potentially. Don't want to talk about it. But obviously it was when I was much, much younger. in my teenage years, but this is a different situation

because many of the text conversations between Scarlett and Eddie revolved around murder. The two teens made a list of five people they wanted to kill, which included Brianna Gay, and four boys they strongly disliked for different reasons.

Eddie thought one boy was a pedophile, two boys were Scarlett's enemy, and another was interested in a girl Eddie Lunt. And what is not scary about two teenagers sitting around making a list of people they want to kill? It's alarming, shocking. Yeah, very. Now, they initially planned to kill one of the boys on the list. But after that plot failed, they focused in on Brianna.

Scarlett and Eddie exchanged thousands of. text messages about their plans. In one message, they agreed Brianna would be easier to kill. Eddie's texts about Brianna often included derogatory and transphobic language. They discussed different ways to kill Brianna in January 2023. Brianna became very sick. Scarlett admitted over text that she tried to kill her with an overdose of ibuprofen. but her plan was unsuccessful. It's kind of a rough way to try to do something like that, right? I mean, that's a lot of ipyprofen.

It takes, I would think it would take, you know, quite a bit to actually kill someone. Now you can make somebody pretty sick. But here's the other thing, Gibbs. And obviously these text messages come out much later. And it's a question we always ask. Did these people not realize that these text messages were going to come back to haunted? Yeah. Or, you know, in their 15-year-old brains, where they just not thinking about that. Probably thinking, well, I deleted it. It's got to be gone.

Maybe they deleted it. Maybe they didn't. Maybe they just thought they wouldn't get caught. Well, that's probably more likely. Esther recalled about the poisoning. She was just writhing around in agony, holding her stomach, saying that she felt like she was going to die. At the time, Esther was unaware. Her daughter had taken ibuprofen. Well, if you're taking that much ibuprofen, guess what? Your stomach is going to hurt, and it's going to definitely feel like you're in agony. Scarlett then wrote down a plan for how, when, and where they would kill Brianna. They plan to stab her to death at Colcheth Linear Park in Warrington.

I mean, imagine Gibbs, you're 15 years old, and you're sitting around with your friend planning to kill somebody. Yeah, it's... It's very strange to map something like that out. Like, this is what we're going to do. Here's the steps we're going to take. Well, for me, it's strange for adults to get with another adult and plan to kill somebody, but we're talking about two 15-year-olds. Yeah.

To me, that makes it, you know, that much more strange. On February 11, 2023, Brianna was stabbed the death by Scarlett Jenkinson and Eddie Rackcliffe. in broad daylight after Jenkinson lured her to Colcheth Linear Park. Brianna thought the three of them were going to hang out in the park. It was the first time she ever met Eddie Ratcliffe. And this is not the first case that we've done, where, you know, a young person was killed by someone who they thought was their friend. You know, it's pretty easy to lure, if you want to use that word,

someone to a place when you're friends. Sure. You could call me up and say, Hey, Gibbs, meet me down at the old railroad depot that no one's there anymore. I have free food. I was going to say, all I would have to say is I've got some free food for you. And you'd be like, how quick can you get there? That's right.

But, you know, this is different, right, than a serial predator out looking for prey. having to try to figure out how to lure that person or get them in their car or whatever, the teens planned to dispose of her body. But they were surprised by a couple walking their dog in the park. They both ran, leaving Brianna face down in the mud. The couple called emergency services, but Brianna sadly quickly bled to death. The two suspects were quickly identified, And they were arrested on the evening of February 12th at their respective homes. So if this couple didn't come through at the time they did. Could have been a different story.

Yeah. You know, if they had a solid plan to dispose of Branagh's body, it could have made this a lot more difficult. But also, I mean, let's think about the plan. You're in broad daylight. There is a chance because you're at a park. that there are going to be other people there. I don't think they really thought it through. They did, but somehow it made sense to them when it probably shouldn't,

but again, they're 15-year-olds. The arrest was prompted by a phone call from Scarlett's mother. Scarlett told her mother she was with Brianna. Shortly before the murder, Scarlett claimed Brianna had gone off with a lad from Manchester. And Scarlett stuck to her story. in her first interview, but when she was confronted with her incriminating text messages, she said, no comment.

Again, these text messages, these, you know, internet searches, they will come back to bite you in the ad. Yes. And they do time and time again in the episodes that we cover. People just need to get that clear through their head. Okay, well, first of all, let's not kill anyone. Well, that's number one. Number one. Don't do that.

But if you do. And again, we don't want them to do that because then they may not get caught. We like it when people are ill-informed. Eddie did five interviews with the police, and he blamed Scarlett from the beginning. He said Scarlett told him to lie about the man from Manchester. He insisted that Scarlett stabbed Brianna while he had his back turned to urinate against a tree. You know, that's the old, I was taking a whiz defense. Yeah, I used it several times in the past, yeah.

Yeah. And obviously it worked. I'm here. Scarlett eventually admitted she was there during the attack and admitted she convinced Brianna to come to the park. But she said Eddie was the one who stabbed Brianna. Look how fast they turn on each of all. Oh, my gosh.

And how many times have we talked about that, right? It's, hey, we're in this together. until the you know what hits the fan. And then it's every person for themselves. And it becomes, how can I save my own hide? When the police searched the teen's homes, they found a chef's knife and the written murder plan in Scarlet's bedroom.

Only Scarlet's blood was found on the knife in her room. Okay, here's another tip. Maybe don't leave the written. and murder plan just lying, you know, around in your bedroom. That's probably too much to ask. Or don't write it down at all. I mean, how complex was it? Could you just not tell it to each other and, and commit it to memory?

Yeah, but when you think that you're not going to get caught. Or you're 15 years old and you don't think things through all that well anyway. Right. The police found a hunting knife in Eddie's home. Both Eddie and Brianna's DNA were found on the knife, but not Scarlet's. So that is interesting, right? Two knives, but it's really only the one in Eddie's home that has Brianna's DNA on. Brianna's blood was found on Eddie's shoes and coat.

There was no blood found on Scarlet's clothing in her later confession. She said it was because she washed her clothes. But if you're going by the evidence, you know, you have each of these individuals saying that the other was the one who stabbed and killed Brianna. You're kind of looking at Eddie now as the most likely suspect because it's his knife that has Brianna's DNA on. According to the Guardian, both defendants' DNA was found on a drink bottle at the crime scene. So there's no doubt that, you know, police can put them there. They were there. They both confessed to being there.

Scarlett Jenkinson and Eddie Ratcliffe's trial started in late November, 2003. At this time, the media was restricted from reporting their names. So they referred to them as girl X and boy Y. I get it. They're 15 years old. They're minors. Got to protect their identity.

Because of the lack of. forensic evidence linking Scarlett to the actual stabbing, the jury asked not to decide whether Scarlett cleaned herself up more meticulously or did not participate in the stabbing. The jury had to decide. She helped plan and carry out the attack. The prosecution argued that Scarlett primed Eddie to be her assassin and that she was actually the leader in their plot. the court heard testimony from Catherine Vynes, who found Brianna's body in the park.

At first, she thought it was a prank involving a blow-up doll, but she soon realized Brianna was seriously injured. She called emergency services. In her phone call, Vy said someone was seriously injured and had been attacked. She saw the attackers running away. The victim was bleeding heavily and had blood on her legs and back. She wasn't sure if she was alive or not. The operator asked if her husband could put pressure on the wound.

Catherine Vise replied, per the BBC, I don't think there's anything you can do for her. A pathologist testified that Brianna was stabbed 28 times, 14 times to the head and neck, and 14 to the chest back and sides. She also had defensive wounds. Not only did they go there to kill her, but they did it such a...

in such a brutal way. And you wonder why, right? Was the number of stab wounds to ensure that she died? Or was somebody taking out some of their rage? And what was that rage based on? Brianna's lungs were punctured as well as her aorta and esophagus. One stab wound severed her jugular vein and carotid artery. And, you know, Gibbs, these injuries are not one.

that are survivable in that scenario. Yeah, sadly they're not. And I think you're getting a good understanding of why she bled out and died as quickly as she did. The jury listened to transcripts of thousands of messages exchanged between Scarlett and Eddie about their plan to kill Brianna as we talked about. Brianna wasn't the original target. They discussed killing four other boys as early as November 22. it was as if they seemed to enjoy plotting gruesome murders.

Really kind of sick. Yeah, it's like their pastime. But again, does this go back to, you know, we said, Scarlett developed this fascination, she was on the dark web, murder videos and things like that. Well, it was probably something that somehow got her and arrested. And then she probably felt like she had. had to feed this new.

I don't know what you call it. What do you even call it? Fascination. You know, some people have said in the past, I just wanted to know what it felt like to kill somebody. I don't know if that's the scenario that we're dealing with here or not. According to the Guardian, Scarlett wrote, If I do end up killing him, which is one of the intended victims,

I have a really sharp blade, the same one that Sweeney Todd uses. Okay, referencing Sweeney Todd. The demon barber of Fleet Street. Yes. According to my knowledge of Sweeney Todd, which comes entirely from that one episode of the office. Oh. Where they put on the play, Sweeney Todd. I have never seen Sweeney Todd.

Everything I know about it comes from the office. You missed the Johnny Depp movie. Yeah, I didn't see that, the movie. And unfortunately, a lot of. What I know comes from the office. I know. Right or wrong. That's where you get your information from.

Scarlett continued, if we kill him, can I keep some things? A couple of teeth and an eye. This is a 15 year old girl. Yeah. Who not only is plotting a murder or possibly multiple murders, but is now talking about keeping trophies. And we're not talking about someone's ID. We're talking about teeth and eye. This is some real macabre shit we're dealing. It really is, especially at that age. And then I'm thinking, what if that couple didn't go through? And it was never discovered that

they were the ones that did this. I feel like at least she and probably them would have moved forward down the list. Yes. I'm with you on that. They began to discuss killing Brianna on December 15th, 2012. Scarlett told Eddie she was obsessed with Brianna.

Eddie responded basically because it's trans. You find it interesting because the majority of people aren't trans. It's like going to a funeral and one person wears pink. You're going to be fascinated

by their difference. And this is one example. of the derogatory language he used when discussing Brianna. He often referred to her as it. Initially, the teens planned to give Brianna an overdose of cocaine, but they couldn't afford to buy the drug. Scarlett wrote,

let's just stab her. It's more fun. It's more fun. It's really fucked up. Well, and that's why I think these text messages are so important. You know, it's one thing to hear a story from someone. You don't know if they're telling the truth.

You don't know what they're leaving out. But these text messages, they're telling a story. And right now it's that, you know, Scarlet is one cold-hearted, you know what. Yeah. She really is. On January 23rd, 2023, Scarlett messaged Eddie, according to BBC. You know that girl I mentioned, Brianna. I'm still trying to kill her, and the easiest way is pill overdose.

As reported by the Guardian, Scarlett admitted she tried to kill Brianna with an overdose of ibuprofen. She wrote, I gave her some today. That should have been enough to kill her, but she didn't die. Eddie suggested she tries something else, such as spiking a McDonald's milkshake with sodium hydroxide. yet I don't know what that would do to somebody, but I can imagine it cannot be good. I'm guessing they researched it to figure it out what they how they needed to do and how much and all that. Later that day, Scarler wrote, Branagh is still ill.

Those tablets I gave her might slowly be killing her. The jury heard that Brianna was very sick and vomited that day. Her mother thought she saw red grapes and the vomit, but it could have been the eye. ibuprofen tablets. Yeah, because they have that reddish coating on them. Well, some do. Yeah. I don't know that all of them do.

Well, it's true. The ones that I have are just white. You get the off-brand? No, these are prescription. Why in the world are you accusing me of buying off-brand? Your nickname should be off-brand. Hey, off-brand. brand expired stuff fell off a truck yes on January 26th,

2023 the two defendants decided they would first kill a boy called E by stabbing him in a hidden spot nobody goes to in linear park then they decided it would be better to hang Eke Scarlett asked Eddie if he had any rope he searched for it online but decided it was too expensive to order for 12 pounds plus shipping. They rarely looked into this stuff. Well, and, you know, if you're M or E, and you find out after the fact,

after they've killed Brianna, obviously all of this is coming out in court, I mean, what emotions are you going through, knowing that it could have just as easily been you? Yeah. They finalized their plan to kill Brianna after they failed to lure E. Out using a fake Instagram account

created by Eddie, Scarlett said, if we can't get E tomorrow, we can kill Brianna. And Eddie agreed. Scarlett planned to meet Brianna on January 28th. But Brianna canceled at the last minute for a family dinner.

The two defendants met in Linear Park anyway, which the police described as a dry run for the murder. Scarlett wrote out the murder plan, and on February 3rd, she took a photo of it and sent it to Eddie. So not only did she keep the physical copy. Well, now there's a digital copy floating around that she sent to Eddie. Clearly not the smartest teenager. Well, and some would argue that that statement is an oxymor.

The note was titled September 11th, February, 2023. victim Brianna Gay. The note read per the Guardian, Meet Eddie at Wooden Post. 1 p.m. Walk down to library, but stop. Wait until Brianna gets off bus.

Then the three of us walk to linear park. Go to the pipe tunnel area. I say code word to Eddie. He stabs her in the back as I stab her in the stomach. Eddie drags the body into the area. We cover up the area with logs, etc. They really did have a detailed plan. Yeah. Yeah, they really did.

On the day of the murder, Scarlett texted Brianna, instructing her to buy a single ticket to the Colchath Library. The prosecution argued that this show, she never intended for Brianna to come home a lot. After boarding the bus, Brianna messaged her mother. I'm on the bus by myself. I'm scared.

Esther told the police that, Brianna was anxious and normally didn't go out on her own. And we set it up front, right? Brianna was the type of person who didn't go out a lot. I think she preferred to stay home. She was a homebody like me. After the murder, both Scarlett and Eddie were seen on CCTV cameras and video doorbells making their way home.

And they continued texting throughout the day to work on a cover story. Scarlett messaged Eddie to say a woman got stabbed in the park. He replied, holy crap. The next day, Scarlett messaged Brianna, as reported by BBC.

Girl, is everything okay? Some teenage girl got killed in linear park. It's on news everywhere. And why did you ditch us for some random man from Manchester? Like WTF. So she's trying to set that stage

Yep. But here's the thing, Gibbs, right? They're doing it through text messaging. Now, I'm assuming these are text messages that are not going to be deleted, right? These are the ones they're going to keep because it's going to prove that, you know, they didn't have anything to do with this. Yeah. Look, see, right here on my phone. But obviously, they must not have known that the police could recover, you know, all of these other messages that had been sent in the days before, the prosecution called this her attempt to set up an alibi. And you can, you can see. That's what she's trying to do. Although they tried to cover their tracks by pretending to be surprised about the murder at 11 p.m. Scarlett asked Eddie if he had anxiety about getting caught. He replied,

Probably. She responded, you're not going to get caught. Don't worry. Police are shite here. And I love the fact that over there, they use the word shite. Instead of shit. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's kind of quaint. There's no shiting about that. It's kind of like bollocks. Is it? I like that too. Bollicks. You just like bollocks. I think I should use that more often. But here again, as a 15-year-old, are you not going to be concerned? after, you know, killing a young girl.

And, you know, I think Eddie was pretty honest. Yeah, I am concerned. Shortly before she was arrested, Scarlett messaged Eddie telling him her mother spoke to the police. According to the Guardian, she wrote, make sure story adds up. Say to police everything. We met Brianna at half one, walked to Linnear,

and sat and chilled on the bench. then Brianna looked at her phone and said she was going to meet some lad and walked off. The jury viewed the notes found in Scarlet's bedroom in March 2023, which included the murder plan. Another note was titled People That Need to Go and included a series of initials. Oh, well, don't you have a list like that? I do, but I keep it in my head. You know, that is not something that I put on paper. And I read out kind of the murder plan.

Even though it was somewhat detailed, it wasn't all that long. It does seem like something that, you know, someone could have committed to memory, let's say. I'm glad they didn't, but, you know, I think they could have. A third note said, per the guardian, give them alcohol with sleeping pills, slit throat, dismember body. place pieces in bin bags, bury bags seven feet underground. Get her to go to linear park. Go to the hidden spot near the bridge.

I usually go to. Someone jumps out and restrains her. Plan B. I kill her. Good details there. Yeah. And I think if you're the jury, you know, these text messages alone

leave little doubt about what these two young kids did. And it wasn't a spur of the moment thing, right? Obviously, there was some planning involved. It was premeditated. Both Scarlett and Eddie testified at trial. Scarlett denied poisoning Brianna in January 2023 and said she saw her take the pills on her own in a public restroom. When asked about why she wanted Eddie to purchase the rope, allegedly intended to kill another person on the list, Scarlett testified that she couldn't afford it herself. And she intended to use it to end her life.

So she was going to use it on her self? Well, you know, you've got to come up with something. You have these very incriminating text messages. So what can you do? Try to put a spin on them. And I think they tried their best. She claimed Eddie was the one who stabbed Rana. he did it while her back was turned.

So they both said that. In his story, you know, he's peeing on the tree, but he has his back to Scarlett. She's claiming that she had her back turned when Eddie stabbed Brianna. And why is that? So they can claim that if they would have seen,

they would have stopped it? I don't really know. I don't know why the back turning thing was important because I don't know how you would have stopped it once it got started if you're the other person. And it's not like you didn't turn around at some point and realize what happened. The three of them were hanging out in the park and they stopped at a bench. Scarlett was bored and got up to stretch her legs. That was when she heard a scream and saw Eddie stabbing Branagh around five times.

So she was bored hanging out. I thought, well, I'm going to stretch my legs. My back has turned. Yeah. I don't know what went on over there until I heard the screams. Scarlett testified, per the BBC, I saw her fall and land face down on the floor. I saw him stand next to her, leaning over and looking down at her. Scarlett said she believed Eddie would overpower her if she tried to step in.

Afterwards, she said she walked over to see if Brianna, was breathing, but she couldn't tell. When she saw Eddie run off, she panicked and fled. She testified that she didn't tell the truth at first because she was scared because obviously I knew how bad it would look just based off of text messages. So I was defending myself as well as Eddie at the time. But upon cross-examination, she admitted it was her idea to kill Brianna. And she lured her to the park.

and lied to her mother and the police. She testified that the talk of harming Brianna was just a fantasy. So again, you've got to try to spin all of the known evidence. Right. And a lot of this evidence comes in the form of text messages. But when you're admitting that you lured the victim to the park, what did you think was going to happen? What part of that was the fantasy?

the luring and then you guys were going to sit around and roast marshmallows and everybody was going to go home happy? Right. It just doesn't make sense. No. She knew what she was doing. Yeah. But again, you got to say something.

Is the jury going to buy it? I don't know how they could have because we're not buying it. I don't think anyone listening is buying it. Now, for his testimony, Eddie typed on a keyboard and his answers were spoken by an intermed. mediary. This was because he had become mostly nonverbal and only spoke to a few people. We'll talk about this more in detail later in the episode. Eddie said he did not stab Brianna and saw Scarlett carrying out the murder with his knife, which she asked him to bring. He was relieving himself by a tree when he heard clothes rustling, a thud, and a puncturing sound.

That was when he saw Scarlett stabbing Brianna. He put his hands on Brianna and got blood on them. When witnesses approached, Scarlett told him, we've got to run. So, I mean, he's doing a couple of things here. He has to explain why his knife has Brianna's blood on it. Yeah. He also has to explain why he has Brianna's blood on him. And he's trying to do that.

Eddie testified that Scarlett planned to kill Brana, but he didn't take her seriously because she was always talking about murder and nothing happens. So the way I see it Gibbs is you have two people who both have a mountain of incriminating evidence, you know, against them, pointing the finger at each other, saying that, you know, each one of them is innocent and it's up to the jury. or the judge, however, it shakes out to make the decision. Who's lying? Who's telling the truth? Or you both were there and you're both getting equal, uh, sentencing.

Yeah. But here, let me poke a hole in his testimony, right? He's saying, Scarlett was talking about murder all the time and nothing happened. But he's also saying she specifically planned to kill Brianna. So you know you're going to this place. You know Brana is going. He's saying, Scarlett asked me to bring my hunting night.

What in the world, again, do you think was going to happen? Yeah. Be like me meeting someone at the park and they're like, Hey, Gabi,

make sure you have your K bar with you because we're going to meet this other person. It's pretty serious. Something happening, right? Well, I assume you have your K bar most of the time, but if someone specifically asked you to bring it, you have to assume something's going down. Yeah. I mean, sometimes it's visible. Sometimes it's not. It is a rough thing to keester.

I was just going to say, the fact that you can keester, a knife that bit is a feat in and of itself. Eddie later asked why Scarlett did it. And she said, she had to try to get me to break up with my boyfriend and that is unforgivable, unforgivable to the point where she should be killed because she thought you should break up with your boyfriend. Well, then if you go off how she feels about that, there'd be people killing people everywhere. So there's two things for me. One, we're trying to jump into the minds of two 15-year-olds and that's a tough thing to do at our age. But two, again, it's just a complete spin job, right?

You have to try to explain these text messages, which are very damning. You have to explain the hunting knife that has Brianna's blood on it. And you have to point the finger at each other when you have two defendants. Yeah. And that's what they're trying to do. If you have a good defense attorney, it's what he's going to tell you. to do. Yeah. I mean, I think any defense attorney might do that. I don't know how good you have to be, but... Well, you never know. On December 20th, 2003, Scarlett Jenkinson and Eddie Rackler were both found guilty of murder.

After the verdict, Esther Gay told the BBC, the defendants had not shown any remorse. And she lost all sympathy for them, adding, to know how scared, my usually fearless child must have been. when she was alone in that park with someone that she called a friend will haunt me forever. I mean, she was already scared, just headed over there. Yeah. And she voiced that. But, you know, to me, this is a very powerful statement coming from the parent of a murdered child. There's going to be a lot of things that, that haunt her. But this thought of, you know, her being in the park with.

these people, one of which she considered a very good friend and being betrayed by that friend and her last moments alive. I could see why that would be very haunted. The sentencing hearing took place on February 2nd, 2004. The judge lifted reporting restrictions and the teen's names were published for the first time, which makes sense, right? They've been found guilty. They both received life sentences. Scarlett was sentenced a minimum term of 22 years. Eddie received the minimum term of 20 years. And that's pretty interesting that Scarlett received a longer minimum than Eddie did. The judge acknowledged that Scarlett was the driving force, but it would be wholly wrong to treat Eddie Ratcliffe as being under Scarlet's control. So what do you make of that?

that. Well, none of this would have happened without her. Yeah. I think that's what the judge is trying to say. Scarlett's the driving force. But Eddie Radcliffe could have walked away at any point. Absolutely. It's not like, you know, he was under some hypnotic mind control. No. And had to follow this girl's wishes. The police did not believe. The murder was motivated by the. the fact that Brana was transgender. But the judge told the teens, per the guardian, you both took part in a brutal and planned murder, which was sadistic in nature,

and where a secondary motive was hostility towards Brianna because of her transgender identity. So the judge who takes in everything, right? You know, here's everything, came to the conclusion. that if not the primary motive, it was at the very least a secondary motive. Eddie's messages about Brianna were transphobic and dehumanizing, and the judge said he undoubtedly displayed hostility to Brianna based on her transgender identity. The judge expressed concern on hearing that Scarlett had expressed the desire to kill again.

after she was convicted. She had written a new kill list. A new one. A new one after she was incarcerated, which included the names of some of her caretakers. Not the smartest person. The judge said to both defendants, you picked Brianna because you both thought

she would be an easy target. And I do think that is correct, right? They had this list of four or five names, and at a certain point, I forget which one it was, but one of them did say, let's go with Brianna first because she's going to be the easiest. Easier. Yeah. The judge also warned them that they may never be released if they remain a danger.

Well, you know what's not going to help you get released is making a new kill list. Yeah, that's going to be a problem. The minute you get to jail. the court heard that since her conviction, Scarlett admitted to taking part in the murder. She told a psychiatrist that she stabbed Brianna repeatedly and found it exciting. She killed her because she thought Brianna would stop being her friend. And so she would always be with her. Scarlett admitted to the psychiatrist that she intended to take parts of Brianna's body as a token.

And I talked about it earlier, right? At a certain point, she said, she talked about taking teeth, eyes. Now, if this is true and the reason why she wanted to take some body parts is so that Brianna would always be with her, man, you are really getting into a strange area. And like I said earlier, I think if she would have got away with this, she would have continued on collecting more. I think so too. It came out that she previously told Eddie she wanted to keep Brianna's pretty eyes. Scarlett also admitted she tried to poison Brianna a few weeks before the murder with ibuprofen

by pretending that they would get her high. So I wonder if maybe she crushed them up. They snorted them. I don't know. There wasn't really much in the way of specifics about it. Scarlett's first psychiatric assessment suggested she had traits of autism and ADHD, but after the conviction, the psychiatrist determined she has a severe form of conduct dissocial disorder, one of the features of which is having no empathy.

She definitely had that. Yeah, it doesn't seem like she did. The judge noted that this provided some explanation for how she could commit such a dreadful murder. but it did not decrease her culpability. The judge told Scarlett, Scarlett, I have concluded that the primary motivation for Brianna's murder was your deep desire to kill. The messages reveal your fantasies and show your sadistic motives. Brianna's murder was exceptionally brutal.

Well, I think he said it perfectly. Yeah, I do too, and I agree. After his post-arrest assessment, Eddie Ratcliffe was, diagnosed with autism. He stopped speaking and was diagnosed with selective mutism. He would only speak to his mother. The trial was delayed for months because his legal team struggled to communicate with him. According to the Guardian, interstatement to the court. Esther Gay said she was devastated that her daughter was murdered by someone we believed to be her friend, someone that we trusted, someone that I was so happy that she had,

fearing that my child had been lonely. I want to go back to Eddie for a minute, diagnosed with autism, but then the selective mutism. I don't know that I've ever heard of that. So he would only speak to his mother, but is that a medical condition or is that a choice that he's making?

To me, it sounds like it's a choice. Yeah, I don't know. And also, you know, could it have something to do with the fact that he's trying to delay this trial. I really don't know. Esther expressed her belief that Scarlet and Eddie would always be a danger to society saying I would never want them to have the opportunity to carry out their sadistic fantasies on another child.

And I get that coming from the mother of the victim, but I doubt she's alone in that sentiment. You know, when you think about a couple of people killing for the mere fact of it being exciting or to find out what it's like to kill someone and, you know, having this deep fascination with murder, that may not be someone you want back out on the street. Brianna's stepfather, Wesley Powell, told the court that although Brianna had a large online following, she was lonely and needed a close. friend, Scarlett and Eddie prayed on her vulnerabilities. And I absolutely think they did. For sure. Eddie's defense attorney denied that he was transphobic and said his offensive language was juvenile and immature. Well, of course, his defense doesn't want people to think he's transphobic and that that had anything to do with his involvement in the murder. He added, per the BBC, the names on Scarlett's kill list were not gender specific.

They were simply people she disliked. Eddie simply agreed with her, simply. Just as simple as that. He just agreed. Simply agreed with her to kill people. Detective Chief Superintendent Evans, head of crime in Cheshire, said to the BBC, I know people said at home, reading this will have this sort of image that they've built themselves, but actually they're both really clever kids and very bright, very articulate.

I think probably their downfall has been their confidence or arrogance around the fact that they thought they could take another human life and then thought there would be no comeuppance for them and they'd never get caught. You know, that's a word you don't hear very often anymore. Comeuppance. I've heard that. Since you were a teenager. Yeah.

And some big guy said you're about. ready to get your comeuppance right before he punched you in your mug. Esther Gay spoke with BBC on the day of the sentencing. She said, beforehand, I felt like maybe there would be some form of rehabilitation. Maybe it was something that had just gone too far or some mindless killing. But clearly it was calculated. I completely lost any sympathy that I had for them. As she should have.

Yeah, I don't know how much sympathy she did have. have for them in the beginning. But obviously when you read or, you know, you see or hear all these text messages laid out, the calculation and premeditation is absolutely clear. Mel, I think if you're sitting there, you're thinking these people are monsters. Yeah. At the age of 15. Yeah. She added, finding out the killer was someone Brianna thought was a friend was the worst possible thing that could have happened. She said in that same interview, I don't feel that either Scarlett or Eddie are the type of people that would get on very well in prison.

And I suppose that there is now a worry for their parents. For me, I feel that Brianna is in a better place. But they've got to continue knowing what their children have done. It is true that we have all lost our children. And that is true. I mean, what she's saying, you know, Scarlett and Eddie's parents have lost them, but in a different way, sure. They can still probably talk to them on the phone.

They can still go visit them. Esther can't do that. She'll never be able to talk to Branagh again. She'll never be able to visit with her. But she is at least acknowledging the hardships that these other parents are going to have to go her. In August 24, an independent safeguarding review found there was no known reason for the high school to prevent Scarlett from mixing freely with other students after she transferred. And there was nothing to suggest she was a serious risk. So obviously somebody must have said, hey, you know,

let's look into this. Did the school have any culpability in allowing her to transfer? And allowing her to transfer in and not warn other people and an independent review found that no, they didn't. In October 2024, a coroner's inquest determined Brianna's murder could not have been foreseen by her school. Yeah, I don't think it could have been. Do you? No, I imagine that would have been pretty much impossible. First of all, very few people can even imagine that something like this.

would take place. Now, if she had killed someone before and got out and then was, you know, in this school, and yeah, okay, maybe you've got some concerns that, you know, have to be taken into consideration. You know, I think about these dates, you know, it's just last month, what this was said. Yeah, this is a very timely case. At the October inquest, Eddie Ratcliffe's mother, Alice Hemmings, described him as a good child with good morals and a loving, caring family behind him. Gibbs, he was on track to apply to Oxford. Nice cool, been there.

Very good school. She wrote that he was well behaved in school, knew right from wrong, and was not a risk taker. This doesn't sound like the type of kid you would think would go along with a murder plan. plot. He was obviously very intelligent. You're not getting into Oxford if you're not. And it sounds like he came from a good family. They loved him. They cared about him. They supported him. But for someone not being known as a risk taker, man, he took a massive. He took the ultimate risk. And also committed the ultimate sin. You know, as we wrap this one up, Brianna would have turned 18 on November 7th of this year.

And I think what makes this case so upsetting to many people is the fact that Brianna was lonely and she was struggling with her mental health. She needed a friend and she thought she found one. But instead she met Scarlett Jenkinson who was secretly plotting to kill her because of her obsession with violence. It just really makes you wonder what the heck is wrong in this world. And I go back to Brianna's mom Esther. And I think she said it multiple times.

She was very happy that Brianna had found someone who she thought was a good friend. Yeah. Because she needed that in her life. She was very lonely. I'm thinking her mom was probably like, oh, no, I can remember. Relaxed a little bit. She's got somebody. Little did she know that this person had, you know, some very sadistic plans. I just go back to the fact that these two kids were 15 years old. Yeah. And, you know, at least for sure on the part of Scarlett, she developed a fascination with violence, murder. But the fact that they just went back and forth texting each. other, making lists, making plans to kill. I just can't imagine it. You know, I think back to being a

15 year old, I was just trying to get a date, man, you know, make the sports teams. I sure as hell wasn't sitting at home thinking about who I wanted to kill. No, I never had any of those thoughts. Now, did I get angry at people? Did I get into fights? Sure. Sure. You do. did. We all did at that age, but we walked away from them. And I wasn't, you know, doing the whole Steve Bussimi sitting in my basement right now the list of who I was going to take out. No. I mean, I'd sit around and whittle something with my K bar at that age. But. And you wore the lipstick like he did. I know that. You had to go there. But, no, I mean, in all seriousness, man, it's just, you know, some of these cases are so. hard to wrap your mind around. They really are.

Because everyone listening, I'm assuming is older than 15. I'm assuming that, hopefully. So we've all been there. We all went through that time period. Now, it can be a rough one. It can be. For a lot of people, right? The hormones are raging.

You're trying to fit in. High school's tough. This and that. I just don't know what makes a person even begin to entertain the thought that, man, I wonder what it would be like to kill someone. Yeah. Now, let's take it a step further because she said some strange things. She did.

She wanted to keep Brianna with her all the time. She talked about taking her eyes and teeth and things like that, which I think even just adds to an already macabre scenario. I mean, that age, you can be influenced really easy. So if you're watching the dark web and you're seeing some of this stuff, it maybe had a impact. Oh, I absolutely think it had an impact. Did you just say watching the dark web?

Watching things on the dark web. Because I don't think the dark web is like a channel. No. But I get where you're saying. Yeah. I think it's the worst of the, the worst right that's what you find there it's things that are so bad they can't even be on the regular internet and there's a lot of shady stuff on the regular internet there really is so i mean

it just tells you that it's the worst of the worst but don't go out there don't try it no definitely i wouldn't advise it but that's it for our episode on scarlet jinkinson and eddie ratcliffe We've got some voicemails, Gibbs. You want to check those out? Let's hear them. Hey, Mike, it's Gibby. Thomas calling from way up north in Alberta, Canada. Yeah, I work in the logging industry,

on a processor. I probably don't know what that is. But working on the night shift, working 12-hour shift, and you guys keep me entertained while I work. I got to say it can get a little bit creepy working on the night shift. You know everything starts.

We're working out in the middle of nowhere sometimes. Actually, one of my coworkers got Sean, Pat, he didn't. Well, yeah, they hit him, but it was a period. But yeah, so I guess that had a little bit of, I don't know, a factor, I guess. But anyways, yes, keep your own time ticking and have a nice state. It's up in Canada, laying some log. I think he said he was a processor. Oh, a processor.

Of logs. Oh, okay. I don't know much about the logging industry, but. You must be taking the logs and processing them. Yeah. Yeah. I got that part. Oh, did you?

Yeah, that part wasn't hard to figure out. Did it too much Mr. Obvious for you? Yeah, a little bit. But, you know, the part where he said, well, he didn't get shot. Well, they did hit him. Probably. So I think he did get shot. Sounds like it.

Maybe definitely keep your head on the swivel up there. For sure. Hey, Mike and Gibby. This is Scott Winters. And I first want to thank you for helping me past time as an over-the-road trucker. I'm caught up on T-Cat and about six months behind on T-Cat I'm solved. I just finished listening to the Robert Hoaglin case and had something I wanted to point out. I'd say I'm a team Giddy because of all the ribbing that you do, Mike, but love the job both of you do. In this case, you guys were

talking about people that look similar to others, and Gibby was saying something about setting in a bar, and he looked over and he seen a person that looked like him. Then he said that they made eye contact. I was waiting on your reply, but you missed your chance. I figured you'd ask him if he was looking into one of the beer advertising mirrors you see hanging on the walls in bars and was actually looking at himself. Anyway, keep up to great work and keep your own time ticking. So I thought that was a very funny voicemail. And, you know, the problem is sometimes I'm not quick enough on the draw. I don't think I'm as quick as I used to be. Yeah, You've lost your...

I've lost a step, man. To think of those types of things. But just the way he painted that scenario is funny as all get out. To think that you would look over and think you see somebody, but you're actually looking in a mirror and you're like, who is that good looking guy over there? He looks just like me. Yeah.

It's kind of funny. It's weird. He has the same shirt on. Yeah. And obviously, I wish I would have thought of it. I don't even remember that. that to be honest with you. That episode's probably been a while back. But I wanted to play it because

I thought it was funny. All right. We had no mailbag. So that's it, buddy, for another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and givey, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.