True Crime All The Time - Sean Vincent Gillis

Episode Date: October 1, 2018

Sean Vincent Gillis is a serial killer who operated for a decade in and around Baton Rouge, Louisiana. He murdered 8 women during this time and the details of the murders are horrific. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the life and crimes of Sean Gillis and the victims whose lives he took. His childhood was not as bad as what we normally see with serial killers. What turned Gillis into a killer who delved into mutilation, dismemberment, necrophilia and even cannibalism?You can support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website for contact, merchandise, and donation information.Support our sponsors:Simplisafe - Go to simplisafe.com/tcatt to get the best deal on home security protection.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

everyone and welcome to episode 98 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime. Mike Gibson. Gibby, what is going on? What's happening, man? Not much except I spilled water all over the freaking desk, barely missed my laptop. Yeah, you did. We almost had a catastrophe. I wanted to see sparks fly in the air. What if it shut the whole system down? All of our research, everything. That would be bad. We'd still get the rest. it. Well, I think if nothing else, you could just make it up as you go. Facts be damned. Exactly. We would just say some of the information may or may not be correct. And this is what we think happened. And this is what we think. How it would have went down if we were there. All right. Let's give our

Patreon shoutouts first. We had Christy. Aaron Keller jumped out at our highest level. Hey, thanks, guys. Dynasty, Chriselle Lockett. Ooh, Dynasty. Dana Tracy. Hey, Dana. Stacy Taylor. Thank you, Stacy. Lauren Kelly Traynor, Denise Callahan, jumped out at her highest level. Callahan Parts. Yeah, Callahan breaks. Yeah. Terry Toganan? I'm not sure about that.

I'm going with that, though. How about we go TT? T.T. Heather Brabill. Hey, Heather Brabola. Megan Valier, or Valier, if you want to be fancy. Valier. She jumped out to our highest level.

Awesome. Thank you. Betty Winter Betty Winter Tamara Myers-White jumped out at our highest level That's a fancy That's a fancy

Kyle Gifford Hey Kyle Amber Powell We know Amber Thanks Amber Colette Marsh Hey Colette Thank you

Megan Capps Tim Hayward Hey Tim Jess Plant James Can Because he knows how to do it Because he can do it Gretchen Hereford

Because he's always there for you Jumped out of our highest level Yeah Lisa Sangalang. Hey, Sangalang. Nicole Beretta. That's cool. Shane McCartney.

Sorry, I just related to Paul. Kate Alexander jumped out at her highest level. Really? Thank you, Kate. As did Donna Mertz. She jumped out of her highest level, too. Thank you, Donna. Nicole.

Emmanuel. Meredith Borell. Yeah, thank you. Dana Tapper. Awesome. Katie Cidlassick jumped out at our highest level. Silaski. Jessica.

Thank you. And Timothy McCouch. Wow. Thanks, Timothy. So a lot of great support. We really appreciate that new support. I like me couch too. You like I love my couch. Yeah, for sure. And we appreciate all the people that continue to support us on Patreon month after month. So speaking of that, Gibbs, let's go back into the vault. And this week we selected Chris Ryan. Hey, Chris. Longtime supporter of the show. So a big shout out. We appreciate that. And we had some page. Pau support as well. We had Haley Bilka. Billka. And Lena Fogelstrom. Oh, Fogelstrom. I like that. You like that? So thank you vote very much. Very strong. Very strong. All right, Gibbs. We have got a packed episode. It's really packed. Jam packed. So we've got to get going.

Dive in. Let's talk about Unsolved. Okay. We are talking about the monster of Florence on True Crime All time unsolved. It's going to be a great episode. It is. It is going to be a two-parter. It is. Because there's a lot of information. And it's in Italy. And it's in Italy. So our Florence foodie group is going to eat that one. It is. The, uh, what you say? Florence foodies shall be the very happy. And there's going to be a lot of bad chef by you. By you, yes. I'll try to correct you as we move along through the processor. Now, also I wanted to tell people about criminology. season four is out right now. Man, already.

Just started. And what we're doing this season is a series of cases, all solved in 2018, but all solved using DNA and forensic genealogy, the type of things that they used to solve the East Area Rapist case. And so there's going to be some really good episodes. So check that out. And don't forget, the new T-CAT magnets are in the store right now. They're cool.

They're very cool. Yeah. They fit into an envelope, so shipping is included in the price. So make sure you check those out. I carry one in my pocket at all times. You should. Yeah. To make sure you don't lose your keys.

No, that's not why you do, but I mean, yeah. Okay. Just to give your keys an anchor. Yeah. All right, Gibbs, I'm going to do something different. I'm going to start out by playing a couple clips. We haven't done that in a long time. But I feel like it makes sense in this case.

Let's dive in. I just come to be, man. Is the word monster come to mind? At one point, I could control it. It's beyond my control at the moment. I'm homicidal maniac. I don't mean to be. So you're hearing Sean Vincent Gillis talk.

And he says, Gibbs, does the word monster come to mind? talking about himself. Yeah. Then he calls himself a homicidal maniac. And this guy was. He was extremely brutal. You know, a serial killer that operated for almost a decade in and around Baton Rouge, Louisiana.

So we're down in Louisiana. Louisiana. Again. Yeah. He confessed to murdering eight women during this time. But he was not alone. And we'll talk about this. as the episode progresses, but Baton Rouge had multiple serial killers, including Derek Todd Lee

operating during this time. And the sheer number of different killers made it very difficult for authorities. But Gillis stalked, tracked, murdered, mutilated, dismembered his victims. He committed necrophilia. And he even consumed. parts of some of his victim. So he runs the gamut. He did it all. I mean, we're talking about necrophilia, cannibalism. This guy was something else. And I can't believe Gibbs that he's not more well known than he is. Right. You and I have talked about that. What makes somebody truly infamous? And I'm shocked that this guy is not more infamous than he is. Yeah, he really not. But you would have, After you hear this, you would think you would have thought he would have.

Yeah, you would have thought he would be. So obviously I'm painting the picture here that this is a bad guy and he is. This is a guy that a prosecutor in his trial would call a true serial killer. For the majority of his murders, he targeted sex workers, drug addicts. Anyone who in his mind would not be missed by society. And he didn't target women of. just one race. He murdered both Caucasian and African-American women. So that again, you know, couple that with the, the number of serial killers operating in this space and this time.

All of that made it extremely hard for investigators. Gillis was a sexual deviant. And his murders would show the evidence of that. So let's get into his childhood, Gibbs. You and I love to start there. Sean Vincent Gillis was born June 24, 1962 in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, to Norman and Yvonne Gillis. His father Norman left the family when Sean was only a year old. He was in and out of mental institutions for most of his life, suffered from alcoholism. This is all his father, Norman. And he didn't contact the family again until Sean was 17. So he was gone for essentially his entire upbringing. This left his mother, Yvonne, to raise Sean on her own.

And she doted on him and did what seems to me gives to be a pretty good job of raising him as a single parent. She took him to visit his father's parents on a regular basis just so that he could develop a good relationship with them. So this is not a serial killer that we're going to be talking about who had an unbelievably bad childhood. Yeah, he did grow up without his father, but he wasn't beaten. He didn't have some of the same childhood traumas that we talk about in a lot of these killers. In 1971, Sean's about nine years old. Yvonne was able to move them into a home in a nicer neighborhood and bad. Rue. The problem is what Yvonne thought about her son Sean and what others thought in the

neighborhood about him, they were completely different. She either didn't see the same things that they saw because he wasn't presenting or she just had blinders on. And that can happen. Right. Sure. That happens to parents. They don't see what other people see sometimes. But she thought he hung the moon. She thought he was a very sweet kid, but other people that knew him as a boy, they said he was very strange. And to the point gives that other kids in the neighborhood, they stayed away from him as much as they could. Now, he did have a couple of close friends that he hung out with. So again, we're not talking about a kid or a guy that's a complete loner, as we do in a lot of the cases that we profile,

Gillis would later tell police that when he was around 12 years old, he tried to kill his female cousin. And the reason that he told police that he did this was because he wanted to feel her breasts. So that's pretty extreme. Number one, you shouldn't be trying to feel your cousin's breast. Let's just put that out there. Yeah, that's not good. But the thought in his head is I'm going to murder her so that I can do it.

That's not good. It's not good at all. Not at all. Sean didn't go to public school. His mother was adamant about sending him to Catholic school. And she worked hard. You know, she was a single mother. She worked hard to take care of Sean and get the money together to send him.

He was an average student. But again, his mother. had this completely different view of Sean. She thought he was brilliant. He was the smartest kid in school. And I don't know how you equate that with the report card that comes in the mail that you're looking at, but this is what she thought. Right. When Sean was 17, his paternal grandfather passed away. And this is what brought his father, Norman, back into his life. And the two would begin to develop a relationship, that would be tough. 16 years. And all of a sudden you're like, hey, dad, let's hang out. So Gillis graduated from high school. He attended community college for a while. He drifted through

numerous convenience store jobs. That's basically for most of his life. That's what he would be, is a clerk at various convenience stores. But he also developed a penchant for pornography. In the early 90s, Sean's mother moved to Georgia for a job. She wanted Sean to go with her, but he didn't want to go. So he stayed living in her house in Baton Rouge. She even agreed to continue paying the mortgage on the house. On top of that, she gave him extra money. The house was described as a small one-story house with pink trim in a neighborhood that was made up of a combination of working class people and students from Louisiana State University. So they live pretty close to LSU to the campus.

But then you get into what people thought about Sean Gillis around the neighborhood. Right. He's older now. But the thoughts about him really haven't changed from the time that he was a boy. You know, people thought he was strange. Even as he got into adulthood, neighbors said Gibbs, that he would cuss at people as they drove by in their cars. He would bang on people's doors late at night.

He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Really? Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. Just because they're laying there? You know. No. That's from Austin Powers. Oh.

I thought for sure you'd get that one. No, I didn't get that one. No, he didn't do those last two things. But he was arrested by police for, just one night being out in front of his house, banging on garbage cans. And when the arresting officer asked him, why the hell he was banging on garbage cans,

he answered, because I don't have a girl. Okay. That was his reasoning. I think this is why he was so upset because he didn't have female companionship. He was also caught peeping in the window of a young female neighbor. And I think this also is. is something that differentiates

Sean Gillis from a lot of the other killers that we talk about. He didn't have really like a 20 year rap sheet. He had very minor offenses. I think he was arrested once for criminal trespassing. He maybe had some traffic violations. But that was really about it. He did not have a long criminal history.

But his mother's gone in Georgia. He has this house to himself. she's giving him extra money and his obsession with pornography deepens as we get into the 1990s. And this would develop into a very serious computer pornography addiction. It would have major ramifications later in life. It was said that he would skip work days just to sit at home on his computer looking at porn. And this had to be Gibbs back in the AOLS. days.

Imagine. Imagine that. This is dial-up for sure. You know, it would take hours just to get one picture to come up. That's what I've been told. Now, I don't have firsthand knowledge of that, but, you know, back in the 90s. I think you kind of do. Back in the 90s, you know, it's much different than today with the dial-up.

You're much happier today. Am I? Not because of that, but yeah. Okay. So Gillis began a relationship with a woman named Terry Le Moyne in 1994. A friend introduced the two and they quickly, you know, they hit it off. They bonded over their shared hobby of collecting old rock albums. Apparently they both love Star Trek.

Maybe they went to some of the Trekkie conventions. I don't know. Maybe they were there with you, Gibbs when you were wearing your full Spock outfit. Well, something about 20 years, man. I've seen you in it. Don't deny that you have a Spock outfit and that you go to the Star Trek conventions. At least I didn't dress as a cling on. That's true.

But I guess I've seen relationships Gibbs that are built on less than that. At least they had some shared interests. It's true. Like you're furries. That's a shared interest. Yeah. Very special. But both Gillis and Le Moyne were loners.

And I think this is something that also drew them together. Gillis began murdering in 1994, which I really find strange. Because to me, it seemed as though in the past, he was, like I said, he was very upset

about the fact that he didn't have a love in his life. He didn't have a woman in his life. Well, now all of a sudden he finally gets one. You know, he has a girlfriend, Terry,

and now he's going to start murdering. I found that very odd. His first victim was 81 year old and Brian. 81 years old. I can't even imagine. And we're going to see it as we go through the victims, right? I talked about the fact that he didn't have a type, right?

Whether it was skin color, nope, didn't matter to him. Age range doesn't matter either. I mean, it's going to span, you know, the gamut. His first victim is 81 years old. And Brian lived in a Baton Rouge assisted living facility called St. James Place, straight out of Monopoly. It is, isn't it? Yeah. It's one of the purple ones. No, it's orange. Is it orange?

St. James Place? Yeah, it's orange. Is it, oh, that's one of the three properties? One of the three? No, it's a group of three. Some of them are groups of three. Some are groups of two. Almost all of them are groups of three. Except for Park Place. The blue ones? Those are just the two, right? And then the right around the corner, the little light, whatever they are, light purple or light blue.

Yeah, those are two. Those are the only ones that are two. Well, that's up 20% of the board. That's not. 10% of the board. That's one of those two things. It's one of those trifectos. One of those trifectus.

But this St. James place where she lived, it was right across the street from the convenience store where Gillis worked. And it was just blocks from where he lived. So Gillis entered her residence early on the morning of March 20th with the intent to rape 81-year-old Anne Bryant. But things went south very quickly because as he started to touch her, she began screaming. And he freaked out. He panicked and slid her throat to stop her from screaming. That's just wrong. Well, the whole thing's wrong.

Sure. Yeah. But I mean, my gosh, went in there thinking a sexual assault and ends up murder. It's all wrong. It's all wrong, sure. But sexual assault of an 81 year old woman. And then he slits her throat. But that wasn't it. You know, after he did that, he stabbed her. He slashed her upwards of maybe 50 times before leaving her body there at the crime scene. And there's no doubt. An extremely. extremely vicious attack. This woman Gibbs was almost both decapitated and disembowed. This is how brutal this thing was. It's nasty man. I mean, seriously. And it was said that he focused much of the knife attack on her breasts and genitals.

So that's not random. That is going back to, you know, what I said, this guy's a sexual deviant. You don't just happen to be stabbing and hit the breasts and genitals, right? That just doesn't happen. You were doing that on purpose for a specific reason. In most cases, it's some type of sexual gratification. Yeah. So he's committed his first murder.

He and Terry Le Moyne moved in together in 1995. And it didn't take long for Terry to start having concerns. with his behavior. Number one, he drank a lot. And she was worried about his obsession with pornography. So he had a couple addictions. He did, you know, at least a couple. Yeah.

But it wasn't just pornography, right? It wasn't just pictures of naked women. This was pornography centered around rape, centered around death. Yeah, violent pornography. Very, very, very, very. violent. Yeah. And she saw this.

He actually showed her pictures and she was disgusted by them, but probably didn't think anything more of it than I don't like that. I'm not sure why he likes it, but whatever. But to me, that's a pretty major red flag, I would think. What about you, Gibbs? That's a huge red flag for me. it'd be weird to have to see your significant other looking at that kind of stuff thinking that's what turns them on. Rape and death?

Yeah, it'd be really difficult, you know. It's hard enough to deal with other addictions, you know what I mean, it's alcoholism or whatever, drug addict or something like that. But to throw this on top of it. And it can be a real addiction. Pornography. Well, I know you did well through your program. People can really spiral. Yeah.

I'm not afraid to use your. your keyboard anymore. So it's all good. Now, another red flag to me that that comes out is that apparently Sean didn't want to have sex with Terry with some reports saying they only had it a few times during their entire relationship. That's got to be some type of flag. Red, magenta. Magenta. Higher than yellow. But if not red, just, you know, maroon, burgundy. Just go red. Cinnamon. I'm running out of colors. Yeah. But you also have to think how much of that is because of his addiction to pornography.

He's probably getting his release that way, which is decreasing his interest in sex. I don't know that for a fact, but I'm theorizing. For a few years, after they moved in together, he was somehow able to tamp down his homicidal, sexually sadistic urges, but that would all change in 1999. But it's about five years between his first murder and his second. Terry Lemoyne worked the night shift. And that gave Sean plenty of time to hunt for victims. And it was in January of 99, he targeted and murdered 29-year-old Catherine Hall.

Catherine was a sex worker that Gillis lured into his car for oral sex. Once she was in the car... How does he lure? How do you lure someone in for oral sex? I don't know how you lure... That's not a word. I don't even know how you lure. How you lure?

Yeah. You're like you're fishing lure? Yeah. How you're going to lure? Did I say lure? Yeah. I was being fancy. No.

That's not fancy. No. So how do you lure? I don't, I don't, I don't, I, maybe I'm using the wrong word because I thought you just like, take a $20 bill and lick it and stick it to the windshield, the window, and they see it and they say, okay. Why would you have to lick it to get it to stick? Oh.

Well, you're going to get the stick. Yeah, you're right. Maybe I'm using the wrong word. It probably wasn't that hard for, for Gillis to get her into the car. That's what she's out there for. Yeah. I mean, that's what she's trying to do is to, you know, meet someone. He just kind of pulled up.

and went, beep, beep. Yeah, you're right. I probably used the wrong word. I mean, you said it totally jacked up. But other than that, we're all good. But once she got into the car, Gillis put a plastic zip tie around her neck and tightened it until she was dead.

And this is going to be his preferred method of killing. Strangulation by zip tie. Not a bad method. Not at all. But when I think about it, it gives me the shivers. Yeah, because you could, so you can buy the industrial zip ties, right? A little wider, a little thicker, longer. You can already, you can already have it ready.

It's all you do, slip it over the head, and you just got to get it one hard yank, and there's no backing off of it. And that's why it's so scary. Yeah. Once it's on and you pull hard enough, even if they get away, they're going to have a bitch of a time. You could die just running away. Yeah.

if it was tied enough. Yeah. Kind of reminds me of that movie, I don't know, here we go. But with Brad Pitt at the very end, he's walking down the street and somebody comes up, like, jogging behind him and puts this, like a machine zip tie over his head. And it has a little motor. It keeps cranking, cranking, cranking, cranking, cranking, and it's closing down on his throat. And there's nothing you can do. You can't stop it.

It has a little motor in it. So you're going to pick an actor who's made. made 8,000 movies and say in this one movie. Yeah, he plays like an American drug transporter type of guy, middle man. I have no idea. You don't even know what it's called? It's got Cameron Diaz in it as the drug woman. People are screaming at home saying the name of it, but I don't know what is.

What's the Spanish guy? He was in no man. for old country. Javier Bardem? Yes. Haviar was in it. I don't know what it is. And Michael Fassbender.

Fast Bender. He was the main character. So you know 8,000 people that are in it, but have no clue what the movie is called. I don't remember the name of the movie. I don't know. At the end, Brad Pitt gets this, like, fancy mechanical zip tie around his neck. And all he does is the guy comes up behind it, slips it over and hits the button, and it automatically starts cranking.

Well, now you've spoiled this. that now there's no way for me to watch them there's many endings to the movie this is just one of the things that happens but it is so scary to think about yeah because you think i mean yeah industrial but even a just take a regular old zip tie you know how hard those things are to break i can break them i'm i'm saying a normal person oh a person without special abilities do you have any let's try one around your neck no i'm not doing that i mean keep because i'm freaked out seriously let me know we're keep clippers bar i mean i'll clip it off no no no i'm sorry i mean i'll clip it off no I mean, I got you.

I'm literally filled with anxiety thinking about it. Because you know exactly because it doesn't matter. I mean, he's going to pull as hard as he can and the zip tie is going to do all the work at that point. And once he gets it to a certain point, like you said, there's no return. No, it's done. Well, we're going to be talking about zip ties quite a bit. Gillis stabbed Catherine 16 times prior to her death while she was being strangled with the zip tie and then stabbed her many more times after she was dead. He removed her clothing and mutilated her body.

And he dumped her body near a dead-in sign. And this is something that prosecutors later on are going to theorize that was a game, was part of a game to him. Like it meant something, right, to pick a dead in sign to leave this body. The hunter found it the very next day, but police would find a pubic hair in Catherine's mouth. That would prove invaluable years later. All right, Gibbs, let's take a quick break and talk about SimplySafe. You know what a huge fan I am of SimplySafe. And I know you are too. SimplySafe is ready for anything that gets thrown at it. If a storm takes out your power, SimplySafe is ready. Someone cuts your phone line. They're ready. And they probably go way over the top. You know, maybe you don't need to be ready for every worst case scenario.

but I say you do. And that's what makes SimplySafe home security system so great. It's always ready. And it doesn't cost an arm and a leg. They charge you a fair amount. 24-7 professional security monitoring is just $14.99 a month. There's no contracts and no hidden fees. I recommend SimplySafe to everyone I know. I've been using it for years way before they became a sponsor of true crime all the time. So go to SimplySafe.com. slash teacat today. That's simplysafe.com slash teacat to protect your home and family today. Simplysafe.com slash teacat. In May of 1999, so we're about, you know, four months later, Gillis murdered 52-year-old Hardy Schmidt. Schmidt was not a sex worker. She wasn't, you know, into drugs.

And I only pointed out because besides the very first victim, This is unusual for him in how he selects his victims. Schmidt was married with three children. She lived an affluent, comfortable life. She was an avid runner and Gillis targeted her one day when he saw her out running. I even read Gibbs that she had run the Boston Marathon. Really? Yeah.

So she was a pretty big time runner. If I even think about running a marathon, I get to. sweats. Just saying the words marathon, you're sweating now. Yeah. So he targeted her on this one day, he saw her running, but then he began stalking her for weeks. And it was at the end of the month, May 30th, weeks later, she's out for a run. And there's no way that she could have known that a serial killer was stalking her. Again, talk about scary. These are scary things. So Gillis is driving in his car and he decides that he's going to run Hardy Schmidt down. He hit her with his car and knocked her into a ditch.

So after hitting her with the car, he got out very easily overpowered her. She'd just been hit by a car. Tied one of his zip ties around her neck and strangled her. He put her into the trunk of his car, drove to an isolated area where he removed her clothes. and raped her. He put her dead body back in the trunk. And apparently he left it there overnight. And there were even reports that he was driving his girlfriend Terry around in the car with

the dead body in the trunk. And she made some comments. Yeah. About a smell. Smells in here. And he tried to cover it up by saying, I think he'd hit an animal or something like that. Well, I hit a skunk this morning, baby. But the very next day, he'd done.

dumped Schmidt's body into a bayou in St. James Parish, and it was discovered a day after that. Gillis murdered his fourth victim, 36-year-old Joyce Williams on November 12, 1999. He picked up Williams, who was a sex worker, and again, killed her by tightening a zip tie around her neck. This is every murder with the zip tie. Well, it's because it's working. It was very effective for him. Don't go changing if it's working. I hate to say that.

You know what I'm saying, though. Well, no, I get what you're saying. A killer is not going to change up, or they probably are not going to change up what works for them. Right. Actually, it's when they do change things up a lot of times that they get caught. Right. Exactly. After he murdered Williams, he brought her body back to the house that he shared with Le Moyne.

This is the first time that he had brought one of his victims back to his house. And then he proceeded Gibbs to cut off parts of her body, cut off her nipples, which he ate. Okay. So he is progressing very quickly, upping his viciousness, his sadisticness, whatever you want to call it. Now he's into mutilation. Now he's into cannibalism. Raw cannibalism. He's already been into necrophilia.

Yeah. Well, once you go that step, there's probably. probably not much, you know, you're not turning around. No. You're probably moving forward with whatever else is on the chart. You're not going straight, you know, after that. You're looking for what else is going to heighten this sexual thing that I'm looking for? Yeah.

I don't know where you go from there. Well, but he's going to, he's going to go. He's going. He mutilated other parts of her body. He cut off flesh. He ate that as well. Eventually, he dumped. her body in Iberville where Hunter stumbled upon her severed leg bone.

This was January 22nd, 2000 on the bank of the Mississippi. So it was about two months later that they found her leg bone. The hunters called police. Police found the rest of her body about 700 feet away from where the leg bone was. Not too far away. No, not too far away, but you know, imagine yourself as a hunter. You're relaxed. You're walking through the woods. All of a sudden you see a leg bone. Yeah. Freaky out. In January of 2000, Gillis claimed his fifth victim. This time it was 52 year old Lillian Robinson. Lillian was a sex worker. Gillis picked her up, strangled her with the zip tie and took her back to his house. But apparently this time, he, he was a sex worker. Gillian was a sex worker. Gillis picked her up, strangled her with the zip tie and took her back to his house. But apparently, but apparently this time, he was he was. But apparently this time, he was He didn't have the time he needed to do with her body what he had done to his previous victim. Because his girlfriend, Terry, was scheduled to get off work soon.

He had just enough time, in his words, to play with her dead body. And he would admit later that he put his penis in her mouth. He committed sexual acts with her dead body. Gillis took the body, dumped it in a swampy basin, and Lillian's body was discovered a few months later in March. In October 2000, he murdered her six victim. This was 38-year-old Marilyn Nevels. Again, she was a sex worker who he got into his car with the premise that they were going to have sex or some type of sexual act. He strangled her with a zip tie, dumped her body by the Mississippi River in Baton Rouge just a few miles from his house.

Her body was found later that month on Halloween. No one ever reported Marilyn Neville's missing. That's sad. It is sad. It really is. And I'm not just talking about within a few days. No one would ever know what happened to her for four years until Sean Gillis ultimately. confessed to her murder.

Four years, Gibbs went by. No one missed her. No one missed her. No one reported her missing. But again, this goes back to Sean Gillis for the majority of his victims. And he said this, looked for people that he felt would not be missed. Those were his words. After the murder of Maryland Nevels, Gillis took a three-year break from killing.

That's a pretty long time. That is a long time. For a serial killer, especially one with the type of, you know, sadistic, sexual needs that this guy seems to have. Now, we haven't profiled Derek Todd Lee yet, but I know we will. He's been on our list, Gibbs, for a very long time. And his names come up in a few of the unsolved ones we've done. It has.

Yeah, we've talked about him before, but we haven't done a full episode on him. he was operating during much of the same time that Gillis was. And it's been reported that Sean Gillis was a fan of his work. I mean, he went as far as to save newspaper articles on the murders committed by Lee on his computer. So he was studying what Lee was doing. And it would come out later that he was determined not to be out done by Derek Todd Lee. So it's almost like he was keeping score and he wasn't going to lose. So all you need is a handful of serial killers in the same area at the same time.

I'm trying to outdo each other. Yeah, exactly. That's not, it's not a good recipe. There's multiple serial killers operating. There are a lot of women in the area over this time frame that turn up dead. So they create a task force. And a visual Eventually, they do arrest Derek Todd Lee in May of 2003, and it helped calm the community. Because I think, especially in the beginning, they thought he had killed a lot of these women, which he did kill a lot of women. Yeah. But what the community couldn't know was that, again, he was just one of several serial killers on the loose at that time. and once authorities figured out that Lee didn't commit all of the murders,

they knew they still had at least one serial killer out there. And one of those was Sean Gillis, and he would strike two more times before he was caught. Gillis murdered 45-year-old Johnny May Williams in October 2003. She was a mother of three that turned to sex work in order to provide for her family. But what's strange about this one, Gibbs, is that Gilles had known Williams for years. Sometimes paid her to clean his house. Yeah, so he has a knowledge about her.

He's got a link to her. Yeah. That's normally not something that is very smart when it comes to serial killers picking out their victims. He picked Williams up in his car one night, drove to a secluded location, and proceeded to beat, rape and strangle her. Again, killed her with a zip tie by strangulation. But after she was dead, he mutilated her corpse with a knife and he cut off her hands. Then he took her body and posed it in various positions and took a bunch of photographs. It's crazy. Isn't it? Yeah. She goes over there, helps him out, cleans his house for money. Right. He's paying her. Yeah. But,

But it was talked about in a lot of the articles that they were friendly towards each other. You know, maybe they smoked weed together from time to time. Sure. Or whatever. They knew each other. Now, the eighth and final victim of Sean Gillis was a woman named Donna Bennett John Johnston. Johnston was a 43-year-old divorced mother of five. So it's February 26, 2004.

Sean Gillis is driving around his car. He's searching for a victim. When he sees Donna Johnston on a street corner, she was intoxicated and she got inside the car. The two of them discussed prices for different sexual acts, but it wouldn't go any further than that. His intent was not sex. It was murder. He strangled Donna with a zip tie.

He drove to a secluded area, removed all of her clothing. He slashed her body with a knife and used it to cut off one of her nipples. Then he took the knife Gibbs and he cut out a tattoo that was on her right thigh. Just wanted to keep that, huh? He literally cut out the tattoo. The tattoo. But then goes a step further and removes her left arm at the elbow. What a weird thing to do.

All of it's weird. But it gets weirder, right? Because it's reported that he took the arm home with him and he used it later to masturbate with the arm. So he just wanted to have her hand and that's really weird. But we know. We know serial killers take trophies. We know they like to relive what they've done. And you know this is what he was doing.

by doing this. He was reliving it all. Yeah, absolutely what he was doing. We've seen it before. Yeah. He took other souvenirs. He took a blanket, a belt, an earring that belonged to Donna. Now, police would find DNA under Johnston's fingernails on her right hand because that's the only one she had left. He cut the left one off. And this DNA, they're later going to be able to match to Sean Gillis. But the other thing they found at the scene was probably just as important. They found some tire tracks where Donna's body was found, which was in a drainage canal about a mile south of the LSU campus, not far from LSU at all. And these tire tracks, they're going to be crucial in identifying who killed Donna Johnston. So this task force I talked about is on the case.

They are starting to close in on Gillis. Number one, they've got some really good evidence now. They've got the tire tracks. They've got some hair that was collected from two of the victims, which they were able to get DNA from. They were able to get DNA from under Donna's fingernails. So not only are they going to identify a killer, they're also linking these murders together.

because the DNA is all going to point to the same person. So they test all this DNA, but unfortunately it doesn't match anyone in the system. So right now it's really of no use to them until they find out who it matches to or a suspect that they're going to try to match it up to. Yeah, that makes sense. Right now they've just got DNA, but nobody to match it with. And that, but that's where the tire tracks come in. They were determined to be tires made by Goodyear.

And they were not huge sellers. They were only made for a few years. And this was a big break, right? If it was a tire that was made for 10 years and it was all all around the country, top seller, be much harder. This was not a big seller. So authorities worked with Goodyear to get a list of those specific tires that had been sold in the Baton Rouge area.

And they were, they narrowed it down. They got the list. They started narrowing it down of people that had purchased those tires. They got it down to 90. Sean Gillis was number 26 on that list. Out of 90? Out of 90. So they start contacting people on the list, trying to get a DNA sample.

And they do interview Sean Gillis. And of course, he denies murdering anyone. Do you know why we're talking? Talking because you had some tire tracks that possibly came from my car there. And from those tracks, it appears she was unloaded from that vehicle and thrown in that canal. She was not unloaded from my vehicle. So he's not giving it up right at that point. But he did make a bunch of statements to police that were very suspicious.

He talked about reasons why he might have been in the area where they found her body and other strange things like that. So they're very suspicious of him, but they don't have enough to hold him. So they had to let him go. But they were worried, right? They really thought this was the guy. And they thought, okay, we're going to let this guy go and he's going to do something else. But then the DNA evidence came back. And it was a positive match to Sean Gillis.

So now police are certain. They know they have their man. Sean Gillis was arrested in the early morning hours of April 29, 2004. It's a SWAT team that they used to raid his house. And he pretty much gave up without incident. I don't know what the hell you're going to do up against the SWAT team. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And he was in bed with Terry when they busted in.

So he was taken him by surprise a little bit. Yeah, he was still probably, they were asleep. Could be like you, not a morning person. That's true. I am not a mourning person. Now, Terry LeMoyne would say that she was shocked, obviously, that a SWAT team was in their house. But she has said that Sean simply turned to her and said, I'm sorry, Honey Bunny. Just like Pulp Fiction?

Just like Pulp Fiction. That's exactly what I thought of. I'm sorry, honey bunny. And then an officer said to her, hey, didn't you know you were living with a serial killer? So she had to be floored. You talk about a bad morning, a bad way to wake up. Oh, terrible, man. Had someone bust through your door?

Well, not only that, but then tell you that the man that you've been living with is this unbelievable sadistic serial killer. So, Gillis was booked on three counts of first-degree murder and three counts of ritualistic acts in the deaths of Catherine Hall, Johnny May Williams, and D.E. Donna Bennett Johnson. And he would confess to killing these three women. But he wouldn't stop there. You know, after he was captured, he started talking to police. And this was against his attorney's vehement advice, Gibbs, to not talk to police. Ever.

Ever. Never, ever. His attorney is telling him, do not talk to police. His attorney's been quoted as saying, he insisted on confessing and said he did not want me in the room while he was talking to the cops. I told him he was crazy. And apparently Gillis said back to him, I don't know if I'm crazy or not, but this is what I want to do. His attorney would go on to say that Gillis was goofy and odd, but that he was intelligent and articulate. But he also said Gibbs that he had serious doubts about whether Gillis was wrapped real tight.

Those were his exact words. Just wrapped up tight. He's not sure. He's not sure. He's not sure. he's wrapped real tight. Oh, not, yeah, not wrapped real tight. Yeah, that's how he put it. So as Gillis is talking with police, he detailed out how he plotted the murders and how he tried to play games with police. Tell me an approximate number five, six, seven. I honestly don't count. I don't count coup.

I don't. So you hear Gillis, he takes a huge swig of coffee. to start out with. And he says, four, five, six, seven,

I don't count them. It's just like so off the cuff. Yeah. I'm just going to tick them off with my fingers. This is how many women I've murdered. So police get a warrant. They search his house and they find a ton of evidence.

They found a number of pictures on his computer of some of his victims. There were pictures of Donna Johnston's mutilated body, as well as pictures of, her dead body in his trunk. So again, he's trying to, that's a souvenir, right? He's taking pictures. Yeah.

So that he can relive that moment. They found pictures of Johnny May Williams dead body. And they also found a very large number of sharp cutting instruments, saws, knives, all kinds of stuff like that. And on top of that, they found the clippings on Derek Todd Lee, and they found the very violent pornography on his

computer. So, you know they pretty much got this guy, right? They got his DNA. His DNA matches. He's got pictures of these dead women. So the very next day, he confessed to killing 81-year-old and Brian back in 1994, which we talked about. That was his first murder.

and he admitted to stalking and killing 52-year-old Hardy Schmidt in 1999. Gibbs, you know we've profiled some cases in the past where killers confessed to murders that they didn't do, right? They might have killed three and the next thing you know, it's 10. They're trying to up it. Right. They're trying to up it. They're trying to confess to things that they didn't do. it's something that the authorities have to be very careful with.

But apparently, you know, Gillis had all of the details. You know, especially like in the murder of Ann Bryan, he gave them details that only the killer could have known. And the authorities were shocked by some of the things that he revealed. He talked about showering with some of the dead women's bodies. he spoke about painting the fingernails of Johnny May Williams' hand that he cut off. So he took her hand with him and painted the fingernails. I told you this is a sick puppy. It is a sick one.

Now, Gillis had apparently confessed to his girlfriend, 46-year-old Terry Lemoyne, of the murders. After he was caught, right, not before, but after he was caught, she recounted for papers some of their conversation. I guess she asked him if he was sorry that he did this and he said yes. Then she asked him, how could you kill these three women? This is right. This is in the very beginning when he's only confessed to three. And he replied, it's not three, honey.

It's eight. And apparently she fell to the floor crying. I mean, what the hell did you do in that situation? How would you react if your significant other has just, told you they really did murder eight people. Do you think she didn't know about all? I mean, you know, I don't know. I think there were some signs. Whether she picked up on them or not, that's a, that's a different story. Yeah. Right. The odor in the cars are driving. The, you know,

the pornography, even though it was extremely violent and, you know, focused on rape and death. And I don't know that you're going to think, you might think that's strange. That might be somebody I want to end a relationship with. You're probably not going to say this person's out killing people. That's true. So, why not link it that far out? It's just, I don't know. I think I'd want to like shower, vomit, not sure which order. I was going to say in what order. You know? I think there'd be some hurt. Hurt. Because you trust this person. You live with them. Yeah, I mean, just the, the range of emotions you would have, right? I mean, you said, trust, low. guilty, all that would be out the door, all of it.

Everything you believed in, if it was one year, 10 years, a few months, the betrayal of that would just be crushing. Yeah, no doubt. And then you have to mourn for the, like, the people that he killed. Yeah. Yeah. So Gillis was initially charged with the murders of Donna Johnston, Catherine Hall, Joyce Williams, Hardy Schmidt, and Anne Bryan.

He'd eventually be charged with two of the three remaining women he confessed to killing. So he's awaiting trial. And he wrote a series of letters in June and July after his arrest to a friend of Donna Johnston named Tammy Preparra. And these are letters that are going to be used against him later at trial. Because in the letters he said he was sorry for murdering eight women. he said that he was pure evil. But he gave details about the murder of Johnston, stating she was so drunk,

it only took about a minute and a half to succumb to unconsciousness and then death. Her last words were, I can't breathe. In another letter, he wrote, I still puzzle over the post-mortemortem, dismemberment, and cutting. There must be something deep in my subconscious

that needs that kind of macabre action. I really don't know what my damage is. He goes on to say in the letter, before 10 years ago, I never so much as imagined harming anyone. So he does express some regret there Gibbs. I don't know how genuine it is. But I also don't get writing a letter to the friend of a woman you've murdered

and essentially detailing, out parts of, you know, how the murder occurred. I don't get it either. But I guess he's already confessed to it. So maybe he thought, what the hell, what the harm? Yeah, I don't know if he's actually apologizing more than just... No, I don't know that he's apologizing, but he does say that he feels bad about it. And I think he said that to Terry, too.

But again, I don't know how much that stuff is real with these killers. Yeah, I don't know if he feel... I mean, I think he, like, I feel kind of bad about it. Yeah. Like that. Not like, you know, broken down, shaking up by it. I think he's like, you know. Because a lot of these guys don't have the ability to really feel that.

No, it's not in their, it's not in their makeup, you know. It's just not. I think he's saying just generically, I feel bad. And a lot of times I think when they say that, what they're really saying is, I'm sorry I got caught. Yes. More so than saying, I'm sorry for my actions.

I'm sorry that I'm locked up. Yeah. I mean, I think if he was in the room with the friend and you gave him a zip tie, he'd use it. I agree with you because I think he even said something to that effect in one of the interviews with police.

That if he were to walk out today, he would be looking for his next victim or something along those lines. After he already knew he was caught. Yeah. So he is set for multiple trials for his murders. But there was a big issue to settle. And that was around his confessions because his defense team argued that Gilles had said at one point during the police interviews that he should probably have an attorney present.

And so they argued that anything he said after that point should be inadmissible, essentially saying he asked for an attorney. You should have shut down the interview right then and there. Now, the police would counter that he just kept talking. They weren't asking him any more questions. He just kept talking. But in the end, the judge ruled that the confessions were admissible and that the jury would hear them. So he first faced trial for the murder of Joyce Williams.

But just before that trial was set to begin, he pleaded guilty to second degree murder. This is August 2007. he was given a mandatory life sentence. And apparently at the sentencing, he told the judge, I strangled Joyce Williams and she died. Just like that. Yeah.

As we always say, just like, I went out and got a pizza. Yeah. Hit McDonald's on my way home. Here I am. So you ate a pizza and then hit McDonald's on the way home? Just what he's doing, man. This is what it is. No, I was talking about you.

That seems like a lot of food. No, man, I don't eat that. But here's the rub, Gibbs. So he pleaded guilty. but his guilty plea had a condition to it. It was made on the condition that he be allowed to appeal the decision by the judge to allow the jury to hear about his confessions that he said were made after he asked for an attorney. So I think this was his plan or his defense attorney's plan plead guilty as long as they give you this condition that allows you to appeal that judge's ruling. If he's successful in that appeal, he gets a new trial.

And this time, he wouldn't plead guilty, right? Because the jury would not be allowed to hear his confessions. But luckily, it doesn't happen. A year later, an appellate court upheld the guilty plea, upheld the ruling by the judge. So next, he's going to go on trial for the murder of Donna Bennett Johnston. And it took six weeks to seat a jury, which seems like a staff. A staggering amount of time to me, Gibbs. I don't know how long it normally takes to c-day jury in a big murder trial. Six weeks seems like a long time. Seems like a really long time. The trial began on July 21st, 2008, and the jury found him guilty of first-degree murder five days later. His trial only lasted five days. Jury deliberated for about three and a half hours. Again, I'm not going heavy into the trial because we already know all of the evidence they have. have against him, it's insurmountable.

The prosecution was seeking the death penalty, but the jury was deadlocked on sentencing. And so Gillis ended up with a life sentence with no chance of parole. There was a reporter named Josh Noel that had to testify in this trial. And the reason is because he did an interview in 2004 with Gillis. where Sean told him that he had killed the eight women. So he was compelled to testify in the trial against them, which he did. But I don't know. They had so much evidence.

To me, it sounded like it was a slam dung. Yeah, you would think for sure. Now, the next year in early 2009, Gillis pleaded guilty to first degree murder of Maryland Nevels. And he received another life sentence. And later on that year, the Louisiana Supreme Court, they refused to hear his appeal on this issue of his confession and his murder trial of Joyce Williams. So it went all the way up to the Louisiana Supreme Court, but they wouldn't hear it. Now, we talked about him being charged with seven of the eight murders, which he was, but he was only tried and convicted on three. They didn't need to try him on all of them.

Well, he's already got, what, three life sentences? Yeah, I mean, so why go through all the expense? I mean, you reach out to the families, and I think most families would understand if you explained it the right way to him, you know, that he's never going to get out. He's never going to be paroled. Yeah, I mean, one of his life sentences was life with no parole.

So, but then you add two other life sentences on top of that. He's never getting out. He's currently serving out his time at the Louisiana State Penitentiary. But we talked about other serial killers, right? In 2011, Jeffrey Lee Guillory, who was another serial killer who operated in the same area at the same time that Gillis and Lee did, he was on trial. His defense team asserted that it was Sean Gillis that was responsible for a number of the murders for which Guillory had been charged. But Gibbs, I guess that's going to happen, right? we kind of touched on it earlier.

When you have that number of serial killers operating in the same space at the same time, I mean, I read one article that said in the past 20 years, 70 people in and around Baton Rouge have been killed by what they believe to be four or five different serial killers. Man, that's a lot. It really is. People think Ohio is bad. And I'm sure there's more, I'm sure the number is probably even higher. Yeah.

That they just don't even really know about. Wow. So Gibbs, we talked a little bit about Terry Lemoyne and, you know, her shock at the news that her boyfriend was a serial killer. But I read that she still lives in that same house where some very gruesome stuff took place. And she still owns Sean's car that was used to transport a number of. of his victim's bodies. Yeah. Well, you know, somebody out there would buy that car.

Oh, you mean for the memorabilia factor probably? Yeah. There are some collectors that would buy it. I just, I read that and I thought, you know, I think I would be looking to move on. Yeah, I'd be out of the house. I'd be, yeah, I'd want to. I wouldn't be living in the place where I know my boyfriend murdered multiple. people or brought their bodies back to after they were dead and showered with them.

Yeah. Had sex with them. Cut them up. Yeah, I'd be out. Like a casino dealer. Yeah, but maybe she can't even sell the house. Well, that's true. But then again, you know, I'm saying there's people that like that stuff.

You can sell it. And they'd buy it and they'd want to sleep there and hang out there. But the one thing that Terry has said in interviews is never think you know everything about. anybody. Never. That can be a true statement. I think it's a very true statement, actually. You're going to know what they want you to know or what they want you to perceive to know. Right.

But will you ever know everything? Because I know for a fact, I don't know everything about you. And if I did, it would probably... Yeah, you just scratched the surface. Melt me down into a ball in the corner, weeping. You just scratched the surface. That's about it. But I think even husband and wives, as close as they think they are, they don't know.

everything. Probably not. I don't think most husband and wife, boyfriend, girlfriend, whatever. I don't, I don't know if they really know everything they think they know. So Gibbs, I want to wrap this episode up talking about the victims and their families, right? A lot of the cases that we profile involve victims that were sex workers or drug users. These are victims that authorities often refer to as leading a high risk lifestyle. And there were victims that you know had some of these same traits in this case and you and i have said many times that no matter what right these are still people that were victims of violent crimes

regardless of what type of things you know they were doing what what was going on in their lives in the research i found some articles about these women and their families we i touched on the fact that many had children and, you know, some of these children spoke out after their deaths about what great mothers they were, especially when they were younger, before they got, you know, maybe hooked on drugs or they got into the sex industry, sex work. Some of these children found out those aspects of their mothers only after their deaths. when the newspapers and television started reporting on it, some of them didn't know, right, what their what their mothers had been doing.

Right. Donna Johnson's children, now they were aware of her drug use. And they said over time, she began fading in and out of their lives. But they loved her. And they tried time after time to get her help. Yeah, I think it's tough. You know, when people have an addiction and you try to. As their loved ones, you want to help them, but sometimes you might push them away because you're overly helping.

And I think that, you know, they feel like they're let you down, disappointed to you. So then they turn, they're back on you. And you just keep chasing the circle, you know? Yeah. And I think when people don't want help, you can't help them. It's tough. Yeah. And there were stories from some of the kids about running after their moms and saying, you know, mom, don't leave. don't go buy drugs.

I mean, unfortunately, it's a big thing in our country, you know, addiction. It's probably everywhere. It's horrible, yeah. Yeah, and I just... And it seems to be getting worse. Well, yeah, I mean, you know, these street drugs are so easily available and pretty inexpensive. So it's not what you would typically see, you know, what, I don't want to say,

the typical clientele of a drug dealer today is your co-worker. and your neighbor. Or sadly, your high school student. Or your high school student. Or your wife or husband. Yeah. It can be. Yeah.

Now, some of the children of these women, they were extremely upset about the photos used in newspapers and on the television screen depicting their mothers. You know, for many, that was not the person they knew. And they made sure that the outlets had other photos of their mothers. others that showed them during, you know, happier parts of their lives. Probably most importantly, I think they just wanted people to be aware that their loved ones were murdered and that it was just as important as any other murder. Yeah.

So, no, I wanted to end on that because it's, it's something that we don't always talk about. We don't always think about. I mean, the children. Yeah. And some of these women had four and five children that they left behind. mind. And it's not just the fact that they lost their mother. I mean, you hear them talking about it. It's the fact of how the media portrayed their mothers. They were upset about that too. We hate that, right? I mean, because we know these are people. Yeah. Right. He said they're a mother,

sister, daughter, somebody, and they deserve the respect, you know, you can't harp on what was going on their life at the time. Yeah. You may not agree with the lifestyle choices they made. I'm Yeah. You know, we all make bad decisions. Sure. We all make bad decisions. Some people just don't recover from those decisions. Again, the bottom line is they didn't deserve to be murdered.

No, nobody does it. Nobody deserves to be murdered. That's it. That is the case of Sean Vincent Gillis. He wasn't a guy that I was that familiar with, Gibbs, before I started, you know, diving into the research. And he's as bad as they come. He ranks up there, man.

I am surprised that he is as not as known, lesser known, than some of the other ones we've done. Yeah. I'm really shocked. But now... We keep asking that question, right? What is it that moves the needle for a killer to be infamous or, you know, extremely well-known? And there's a bunch of different factors. We've talked about some of them.

Yeah, I mean, he's not... He's no Scott Peterson. So he's not going to grab that audience. Well, we'll post pictures like we always do. This guy's not even Drew Peterson. Okay. He's pretty rough looking. He's like the Nightstalker's worst side.

Yeah. Okay. Now, again, a lot of women like... They find the Nightstocker, Richard Ramirez. I know. Attractive. I don't get it. There's a group of them that did.

I think he looks like a skeleton with big hair, but... Man, that's just me. That woman love that stuff, man. Yeah. You know what? There's somebody out there for everybody. For everyone. All right, Gibbs.

We've got some voicemails. You want to dive into those? Yeah, let's hear them. Hey, Mike and Gibby. My name is Danielle Davirona, and I just wanted to let you know how much I absolutely love all of your podcast. I've listened all the way through true crime all the time, and I'm working my way through true crime all the time unsolved. However, I was re-listening to another case on true crime all the time, and you guys wondered out loud why somebody might freeze body parts. and I was just going to let you know.

I've been listening to a lot of different podcasts, and this has been addressed before. A lot of times people will freeze body parts to disguise time of death, so it can be years later and people won't know because of the way that the freezer impacts or impedes the way that a body decompose it. So I just kind of wanted to drop that knowledge on you guys and say thank you so much for all you do.

Hope you're having great today and keep your own time. Take it and bye. All right. Drop on some knowledge. Dropping some knowledge. Thanks for that voicemail. I'm not sure what episode that was Gibbs, but I mean, that's something that I've known for a long time. I watched Dexter.

I watch CSI. Now, the one thing I do remember, I think we were talking about Jerry Brutus. He kept a foot in his freezer. And I think I remember us talking about why in the world would he keep it there where when his wife might walk down looking for a pound of hamburger or something like that? I don't remember. Grab a foot. Yeah, and grab a foot. But maybe we did talk about that.

But that's something that, you know, I've known for a long time that that does mask, can mask the time of death. I just wanted to know, you are my favorite. No bullshit. But my other podcasts that I listen to, one of them is Canadian true crime. She's really lovely. She mentioned a Chicago, which is where I'm from, the area. 2019, July 13th, true crime like convention. And I just wanted to know if you guys are going, if you are thinking about it.

And it's $75 a ticket. And if you guys are going and she's going, I'm definitely going to go. But I just wanted to get an idea. Or if you hadn't heard of it, you probably have because you guys are in the business. But you are in the loop more than I am. I just wanted to mention it just to compare it. and get more people to go to it. Of course, your fans in the area will, of course, travel to it, I'm sure.

All right. Just wanted to mention it, guys. All right. Love that voicemail. We also love Christy, a Canadian true crime. We do. So we haven't announced it just because it's so far away, but it's a great time to. We are going to be there.

We'll be in Chicago. Chicago. For this podcast convention. So if anybody's planning ahead and they want to hang out with us. Sing Frank Song. Frank Song. Franks. Franks.

Sinatra. What song's that? Chicago is. Chicago is what? My kind of town. Is that how the song goes? Probably not. I thought he always sing about New York.

He does that too. He sings Chicago. Does he? Yeah. He sings about all the major cities. Yeah. Everywhere he goes. He covers all his fans.

So, hey, we'll be there. Chicago. Yeah. If you go out to the website, you'll see our logo. We're signed up. Read up some Chicago. dog's oh maybe some deep dish I don't know baby good to see hey Mike and Debbie this is rain from Okan Washington which I have officially figured out I hear a lot

through your podcast I have finished pretty much every show but I'm just listening to the Chevy Kehoe and my mom a few years ago told me about some sketchy things that she was doing when she first had me and it turns out we actually lived in the shadow motel while that was being staked out. So I was probably about one years old at the time but I just thought that was kind of crazy. But just to let you know you did say in the podcast if you go there for your vacation it was actually knocked down quite a few years ago and the lot is actually completely vacant, but they still have the shadow motel sign up.

Kind of creepy. Anyway, just wanted to call and say hello, my first time calling and keep your own tight ticket. Have a great day. All right. That was awesome. Gibbs.

You know how much I love the stories about the connections to the cases that we talk about. Yeah. Brushes with these killers or, you know, six degrees of separation, whatever it is. I love those type of stories. Absolutely.

Absolutely. Yeah, I do too. All right, Gibbs, we got mailbag. We only got one. So it will go quick. Katie Wilson sent me a chip from El Cajon. El Cajon. Not El Cajon, which I'm assuming you're... What's going to? Thinking of. But El Cajon, California. And she actually sent some pictures with it of like the Hell's Angel hang out. And I guess it's like the only place. on this block that is pristine. Like all the other buildings are tagged or, you know, have graffiti or whatever, but nobody will touch the Hells Angels headquarters or building or whatever it is. It's like perfectly white, perfectly pristine.

Really? Yeah. There's also a big sign that says, I think graffiti can be hazardous to your health or something like that. And it was sign like that Hell's Angels chapter. I got a kick out of it. All right. Gibbs, you ready to wrap it up?

Ready to wrap it up. All right. That is it for another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.