True Crime All The Time - Shayna Hubers

Episode Date: February 17, 2020

In 2012, 21-year-old Shayna Hubers shot and killed 29-year-old Ryan Poston inside Ryan's condo. Ryan was a promising young attorney in Cincinnati, Ohio. Shayna had recently graduated from the University of Kentucky and was pursuing her master's degree. The two began an on-again off-again relationship in 2011. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the tragic murder of Ryan Poston. These two young people seemingly had it all. What happened during their year-and-a-half relationship to cause things to end so badly. The prosecution claimed that Shayna killed Ryan out of jealousy. She didn't want the relationship to end and found out he was dating someone else. The defense claimed she killed Ryan out of self-defense.This is an interesting case in that there is plenty of audio, including Shayna's 911 call and her interrogation tapes. They provide quite a bit of insight into the case, but both sides tried to use them to their advantage.You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise and donation informationSponsors:Best FiendsSakara - https://www.sakara.com/tcattAn Emash Digital ProductionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 170 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. How are you? Good, man. I'm doing all right. I love to hear it. No, I'm doing great as well. I always like it when you're good.

We've been kind of lucky. I'm going to knock on wood again. Right. As far as the health is concerned. Oh, yeah. You know, going through this flu season, you and I have been pretty lucky. We have been, man. I mean, for me, it's because I'm kind of sealed in the studio.

I don't interact with as many people as you do. Yeah, I'm in, uh, I'm in germ city, man. You are. I'm fighting that stuff every day. It's like germ warfare where you work, but, uh, but I do go to the doctor tomorrow, though. Do you? Yeah.

Proctologist? No. No. Skin doctor, man. Oh, skin doctor. I get to disrobe completely. So I'm thrilled about that. Oh, that's right.

I forgot about that. Valentine's day. Yeah. I think you talked about. it on a last week's Patreon episode. Yeah. I got to see a brand new doctor I've never met, so that's even better. Well, it would be fun for him. It's a her, so it makes it even more exciting. All right. Well, you can tell the audience later how it all goes on your Valentine's Day Skin Doctor Trip. Yeah, so there you go. All right, buddy, we have some new Patreon supporters,

so let's give our shout out. All right. We had Samira Abdullah. Hey, Samir. Destiny. Hannah. What's going on, Destiny. Cali. What going on, Cali? Skylar Eugene Tones. Hey, Skylar. Jay Law jumped out to our highest level. What's going on, Jay Law? Mama Mia. Oh, a papapia. One of your favorite musicals. I like them all. Of all time. I know you do. Norma Shreiberman. Hey, Norma. Stephanie Broughton. Hey, Broughton. Kim Doubt. What's going on? Doubt. Madeline Dutie jumped up to our highest level. Really? Dute. Duce. Roseline Alba jumped. out at our highest level.

Thank you. Alba. We had Christian Bangdahl. Well, thank you. Joanna Howarth jumped out to our highest level. Hey, Joanna. Hayden Lee Bushnell.

Hey, thanks. Hayden. Love those binoculars. Yes, and there's a set. Amber Routtson. What's going on, Amber? Sarah Light. Hey, Sarah.

Loreen McDonnell. Thanks, Lauren. Linda Bond. Really? Bond girl. Shaken, not stirred. Yeah. And last but not least,

Diana Gilbertson. What's going on, Gilbertson? So we appreciate all that new Patreon. support. And then if we go back into the Volk Gibbs, this week we selected Maine Fits. Yeah. Been with us a long time. And we really appreciate all that long term Patreon support. We do. And they're really fit too, by the way. I believe it. Yeah. We had some great PayPal donations. We had Nora Abelton. Hey, thanks, Abelton. Who is also a Patreon supporter. Yeah. Rojaszsche. Donna Weaver. What's going on, Donna? Joe Lzulo. Hey, Zulow. And Dorothy. ballerine ballerine yeah so appreciate that as well Gibbs right now on true crime all the time

unsolved we have an episode out it's on the disappearance and murder of jill beerman yeah it's a good case it is a good case and i said this on patreon and i'll say it on here you know if you are a t-cat listener who doesn't always listen to unsolved because there's too many things hanging out. Right. This is one of those cases that is as close to being solved, I think, as you can get without a full-blown conviction sticking. I'll put it that way.

There you go. That's perfect. Yeah. So go listen to it. So check it out. See what you think. But I think now we have to jump into this episode. This is really going to be packed in.

So Gibbs, are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time? I'm excited, man. I am too. But for me, the episode can't start until I ask you until I get your go ahead. Let's do it. We're talking about a story that's about a relationship between two people in their 20s, 21-year-old Shana Hubers, and 29-year-old Ryan Poston. In 2012, Shana shot Ryan to death.

And the question really became. Was this self-defense or was it cold-blooded murder? Now, this happened about four years after Jody Arias shot and killed Travis Alexander. And a lot of people, I think, were captivated by this case. Now, not to the degree that they were with Jody Arias. I don't think it got the same level of publicity. But there are some similarities, you know, the real definition of the relationship. that Shana and Ryan had the strange account that Shana gave to police.

And really what she did in the interview room. Very bizarre. Very bizarre. Especially in the part where no one was there. That's kind of where a lot of the Jody Arias similarity comes in. But all of that is just part of what makes this case so fascinating. And it happens to be a case. that happened very close to us, Gibbs, just a little bit south.

Yeah, just up the road or down the road. Down the road in the Cincinnati, Ohio slash northern Kentucky area. Yeah. Now, I will say this. This is an episode that is a bit heavy on clips, much heavier than most of the episodes that we've done lately. But I think the clips are definitely needed because they help tell the story of what investigators and jury members heard from Shana.

Yeah. As she told her side of things. Definitely set the stage. Yeah. And it really will add a lot to the story. But starting out, I think I want to talk about Ryan Poston. Ryan was 29 years old at the time of his death. He had an interesting childhood.

He was raised in northern Kentucky. His parents divorced. And his mother remarried a man. who later worked overseas. Ryan had three younger sisters out of this new marriage, but his father was never out of the picture. Really, Gibbs, from all the information that I gathered,

he was very present in Ryan's life. And it was said that his ex-wife's daughters even called him uncle. Really? And so, yeah, I thought that was interesting. I think it's impressive. It's impressive that, number one,

you stay in the picture. That's very important. But to be able to get along with your ex-wife and her new husband and really kind of meld into their family a little bit as well, I agree with you. I think it's impressive. Yeah. And that's good, right? Because you have kids together.

And it should be all about the kids. Yep. It definitely should be. But it's not always, well, I don't know. I don't want to use the word possible. But people can't always make it happen. Let's, let's put it down. Sure.

It depends how. The acrimony of the relationship. and how it ended and all that. The acrimony, exactly. The acrimony. Yeah. It really was like Ryan had two dads who were more than okay with one another. They got along.

Ryan attended Catholic school as a kid. And then he spent his high school years studying abroad. This is the time period where his stepfather was working overseas. The family was in all different areas of Asia and Europe. up after high school, he attended the University of Indiana and graduated in 2005, a little bit of a tie in with our unsolved episode. Yeah. Jill Beerman also went to Indiana University.

Certainly did. This guy had a triple major, much like I know you did when you were in college, political science, history, and geography. Wow. Now, I hear a lot of people that have double major. Right. And I think that's pushing it because my single major was tough enough on me. To go for a triple major, you are going above and beyond. You're really putting yourself out there. It probably seems harder than it really is. Well, for most people, not for you. Because you got your

Mensa connections. And I know you could call, you know, Stephen Hawking if you needed to to get answers and guidance. But most people don't have the connections that you do. I don't think he's alive anymore. Is he? No, I meant back then. No, you can't call him now. No, you cannot call him now. Yeah. And why would you? Are you in college now? But you have to admit, that's pretty impressive. It is. It really is, honestly. From a, you know, a young guy that age, he graduated from Northern Kentucky University's College of Law in 2008. Okay. He spent some time, clergy. working in Cincinnati and passed the bar examined 2011. Ryan had a number of attorneys in his family.

And I think that kind of helped him on his journey. It probably made him more determined to join them. I'm sure they helped him out with his L-Stats. Or L-Sats. Well, so. When you took it, was there an extra T? There was. Oh.

It was a little bit harder. Well, it was the 60s. Yeah. Well, let's not go that far back. but then they revitalized it. Or revised it. Either one, both.

You can use both. It's been a long week, man. That's what I'm saying. Who knows what's coming out of this mouth? It's all good. It's all good. By May of 2012, Ryan had started his own private practice in downtown Cincinnati.

He was focusing on personal injury cases. Big money. Something you can make quite a bit of money doing. Ryan was described. by friends and colleagues as bright, kind. One of his roommates from college told the Kentucky Inquirer that Ryan was one of those people that was good at everything. And you know somebody like that gives.

Yeah, sent across from me. Law school wasn't even that hard for him. That's what people said. Things just came very naturally to him. Number one, he was smart. He was very bright, very intelligent. Yeah. People listened to him. He was described as the type of person that could speak intelligently about anything. Again, just want to get across how impressive an individual Ryan Poston was. Because I think it's important. And that's really hard to do to speak intelligently on a large number of subjects. Absolutely. It is. You can be very knowledgeable about one thing. multiple things. But when you meet that type of person, like a Cliff Clavin, no matter what you

start to talk about, they know the origin. Now, Cliff was often wrong, but you know what I mean. So it sounds like he was really well read. Yeah. And I think he was well rounded. Yes. So add on top of all of that, Ryan Poston had GQ cover good looks. And then he had the brains to match. He was an up and coming attorney, extremely ambitious. He was going to, you know, set it on fire. Yeah. That's what he was working towards. Ryan also enjoyed shooting guns.

He owned at least three handguns, one that he kept by his bed, the others he kept somewhere around his condo. He enjoyed target shooting at the local gun range, something that I've talked about a lot. I mean, it's something that I enjoy. doing as well. And you were actually really good at it. Yeah. Probably still are. I just haven't seen you. I haven't done it in quite a while, but there for a while I was shooting competitively. Yeah. And even now, I enjoyed it. Your backyard here, me just putting that apple on top of my head. I actually felt comfortable. The William Tell? Yeah. I felt okay, you know. Yeah. My neighbors didn't like it because

I live in a subdivision and I have hardly in a yard, but yeah, you know, Gibbs Ryan met then 19 year old Shana Huber's through a cousin sometime in 2011. At the time she was attending the University of Kentucky. She grew up in Lexington, Kentucky. Shana was a talented singer and she attended a very prestigious school for vocal music in the summer of 2008. Then she graduated from Paul Lawrence Dunbar High School in Lexington in 2009. She graduated with honors in 2011.

from the University of Kentucky with a degree in psychology. But it is University of Kentucky. Don't start with me on, on UK. Don't do it. In the fall of 2012, Shane enrolled at Eastern Kentucky University to get a master's degree in school counseling. So again,

it's hard not to say this was an impressive girl. Absolutely. She was working hard. She was getting good grades, going for her master's. She's attractive, very intelligent, you know, trying to get everything done that will lead her ultimately down her adult career path. Yeah.

If you look at both of them, Ryan and Shana, they had a lot going on for them separately. Now, together they had what most people described as an on and off relationship for about a year and a half. It's going to be rocky. Yeah. There's going to be a lot of breakups, get back together, quasi-dating. It's a strange relationship. But they have a lot of similarities. You know, both educated. Ambitious. Yeah. Good looking, you know, fit. I would say that all of that is true. Yeah. So the question then becomes, how could things go so wrong for two people who seemingly had everything going for them. It was on October 12, 2012 that shots rang out inside of Ryan Poston's Highland Heights condo. Shana Hubers called 911 at 8.54 p.m. to report that

she had shot Ryan and that he had stopped breathing. So Gibbs, let's listen to the 911 call. It's very important. And then we'll talk about it. and self-defense. What did you kill him with? Tell me where the gun is right now. Are you sure that he is dead? Did you shoot him? Send her 15 minutes ago?

Okay. What's your name? No. She's going to want me to stand in line with you, so when they get there, they're going to want to know where that gun is. And we want you to get out safely too, okay? Okay. Are they going to arrest? I don't know what they'll do.

We're going to send him out. I'm going to stay on line with you, okay? What happened exactly? What happened? Do you be, have you been injured? All right. What's his name? He's an attorney in Cincinnati.

Okay. You had a history of domestic violence with him? Okay. And is this your gun? No, this is his gun. He keeps loaded guns in the house. So he slammed you into the couch, but you don't have any injuries? I don't have any injuries.

I was just very frightened. He's just a lot bigger than $8.120. And I said, let me get my things at least if we're going to break up. And you're sure he's not brazing at all? That's okay. They actually have someone that's outside almost right now, but I'm going to stay on line with you, okay? Shot him a couple more times after that. How times did you shoot him total?

Okay, because he was twitching and you knew he's going to die, so you shot him again? Instead of calling 911. So I know that was long. It's longer than most clips that we normally play, but it's very important. Especially towards the end. Yeah, well, so let's dissect it a little bit. You know, she's saying right off the bat, self-defense. Right.

saying, you know, I killed him in self-defense. This 911 call will be dissected. It'll come up at trial, obviously. One of the things that she said was that he had the gun and she got it away from him and shot him. Yeah. That's important. She ripped the gun out of a six foot 200 pound. 6.3, 200.

Yeah. Got it out of his hands and turned around and shot him. Right. But I think to your point, the end, when she. She talks about, okay, I shot him. He's twitching almost like an animal. I had to put him out of his misery as the way that she's kind of explaining it. I didn't want him to suffer.

So I had to shoot him a bunch more time. Sure. Sounds strange though. It does. And it's going to sound strange to police and it's going to sound strange to prosecutors. We'll get into it later on. But I thought it was important to play that 911 call. When police arrived at the scene, they found Ryan Poston dead.

He had been shot six times with a Sig Sauer, 380, semi-automatic handgun. He was shot once in the head, once in the arm, and four times in the chest. So he was twitching a little bit more than she made it seem because it sounded like I shot my boyfriend. He's dead. And then later she says, oh, I went back and shot him a few more times. but he's completely dead. That was the other thing she said in the 911 call. Oh, yeah.

So no doubt. Police are going to want to question Shana. And they did. Shana told a number of different versions, some slight variations, right, of how things unfolded that night. But I do believe they all centered around the fact that the pair had been arguing. She said Ryan became aggressive.

and she ultimately shot him in self-defense. I just picked up the gun and in the middle of him doing something with his arm or saying something crazy and oh my God, what have I done? You know? And he was laying with his face on the table

like twitching. And so I knew he was going to die. a very slow and painful death. I know he was already dead. You know, within the next 20 seconds. In the next two minutes, I know he's going to be dead. And he was in a lot of pain. He was twitching, he was moaning, but he was ultimately dead.

And so I shot him enough time to kill him so that he wouldn't suffer, which was a few more times. I shot him, I think I shot him twice. Thought he was completely dead and he was laying there still. Twitch and making noises. I probably should have left it there, but I know he was going to die. Or have a very deformed face. And I knew, I don't know he would have died.

He was already dying. He was already, he was dying. But I just walked around the table and shot him where I knew he would die immediately. It's fast. Now, this is from police interrogation video. Right. So I'm watching your face as the audio is playing. Yeah.

And I can tell exactly kind of what's going through your head. If you were sitting across from someone and they were telling that story, you'd probably be making the same faces. You're having a hard time putting it all together. Yeah. Man. Very difficult to comprehend what she is. saying. Yeah, it is. Yeah. I mean, it reminds me of when you ask a kid, who ate the last

Twinkie? And instead of just saying, I did it. They go off on some rambling, yeah, nonsensical type of thing. I took a bite, but I didn't eat it at all. I put it back, but, you know, then I came back around and I thought, well, it's already almost gone. So I took another bite. I mean, by that time, three quarters is gone. You can't just leave, you know, one quarter of a Twinkie. It is strange. And it's why, you know, a lot of people have very strong opinions in this case. All of this, the 911 call, the interrogation videos, they're huge. This cannot be good for her at this moment. And it will not be later on either. All right, Gibbs. Let's take a quick break to talk about our sponsors. And first up is best fiends.

You and I both have a passion for true crime. But we've talked about it before. We need the occasional break. So for me, when I feel like I need a mental palette cleanser, my go-to refresher is Best Fiends. While Best Fiends has challenging puzzles, it really is a casual game that anyone can play, but it is made for adults. It's a unique and exciting puzzle experience, unlike other puzzle games out there. Best Fiends updates to game monthly with new levels and events, so it never gets old. I think my favorite part about Best Fiends is the visual style, the design of the game. And the fact that I feel like I'm always striving to reach that next level. The characters are cute. The puzzles are challenging and fun. All of that is what has made this a five-star rated game. And it doesn't require the internet

to play. So that makes it great for traveling. So engage your brain with fun puzzles and collect tons of cute characters. Trust me, with over 100 million downloads, this five star rated mobile puzzle game is a must play download best fiends free on the apple app store or google play that's friends without the r best fiends and next up is saccaro hey listen we're all looking to make some changes in the new year if you're looking to change your diet instead of restricting what you eat what if you actually nourished your body with the healthiest and most nutritious food with sikara you're putting the very best in your body so you can feel your best Sakara is a nutrition company that focuses on overall wellness, starting with what you eat.

This is something that my family and I have been using for a little while now. It's amazing. What really jumps out at me about Sakara is that the meals are ready to eat. They're made with powerful plant-based ingredients. We're talking about chef-crafted breakfasts, lunch, and dinners that change weekly. So you'll never get bored. And it's delivered fresh anywhere in the U.S. But along with their delicious meals,

Sakara also has daily wellness essentials like supplements and herbal teas to support your nutrition. To boost results, try the best-selling metabolism superpowder and all-natural remedy for bloating, weight gain, and fatigue. And right now, Sakara is offering our listeners 20% off their first order when they go to sakara.com slash teacat or enter the code T-Cat at checkout. That's Sakara, S-A-A-R-A-R-A-com slash T-CAT to get 20% off your first order. Sikara.com slash T-Cat. My family loves it, and I know that yours will too. I want to play a little bit more from Shane's interview, and then we'll talk about that. And, you know, I wasn't doing anything that was mean.

I was, like, begging him to stay in the relationship and be with me because I knew that we once really loved each other, you know, right? had told me that he loved me and wanted to be with me. I guess somewhere along the way that grew to hate, he was screaming how much he had. I don't know if anyone will ever want to marry me if they ever kill my boyfriend and helped him. It's not funny, but the stuff he was saying to me was so abusive

while he was throwing me around the room. I'll never forget. In the midst of that, my love turned to have. And I remember screaming, reaching up to grab the shirt. My family now, really my mother. I don't get any serious consequences. I could really be happy just having a career

and maybe not even ever getting married. Because it's very traumatic, you know, for me to live with it. I have to know that I did that for someone that I told every day. I love to me. So the reason why I think, think this part is interesting. You know, there's a couple of things.

To me, it's like she is in full self-defense mode, almost to the point Gibbs where she's acting as though what happened was pretty normal. She didn't do anything wrong. Her main concern at this point is whether someone will now later marry her if they find out that she killed her boyfriend. Really strange. In self-defense. Really strange thing to say.

And then that laugh. Now, some people would argue, okay, that's a nervous laugh. And some people do that. But you can't say that when you hear it in that context, it doesn't sound very strange. I think just like I did, anybody else listening to it, it makes you wonder. What was she thinking? Yeah. Well, it does.

And I get the fact that it would be traumatic to shoot someone. It would in any situation. Sure. And I'm not really sure if it comes through in just the audio the same way that it does with the video. But to me, it's the way she delivers it. Some parts of this are very matter of fact, very, you know, conversational, not quite as emotional as most people think maybe it would be. And I go back to her saying, I hope I don't get into any trouble.

And then obviously the comment about no one will want to marry me. Right. And then she laughs and says it's not funny. It's, it's just as an investigator, you would think something's not right. Something's not adding up here. Oh, absolutely. There's something much more going on there. Yeah.

And I believe that's what investigators thought because it was about four hours after the shooting that Shana was arrested. She was charged with the murder of Ryan Poston, and her bond was originally set at $2 million cash, which is a pretty healthy bond. That's extremely healthy. I think later on, it gets taken away altogether, like no bond. No bond, yeah. She entered a plea of not guilty. The trial of Shana Hubers began in April 2015. Not too long ago.

Five years. No, this is a fairly recent case, but. It's also, what, almost two and a half years after the murder? Right. So we talk about that from time to time. It takes time. The wheels turn slowly. Really slow.

It seems like. During opening statements, the prosecution painted Shana Hubers as a woman who couldn't take no for an answer, wouldn't take no for an answer. They said that Ryan Poston wanted to end their relationship, but Shana wouldn't have it. she shot Ryan to death in cold blood with his own gun. The defense countered that there was no evidence whatsoever that Ryan was even trying to end the relationship between the two of them. And they painted Ryan Poston as a man under considerable stress.

Number one, he had a very stressful job. Sure. Attorney. Number two, and they pointed this out, he was going through a lawsuit that I think was filed by either a firm that he used to work with. It had something to do with maybe him taking his clients with him. I didn't see the exact particulars. But it was said that that was a stressor in his life. The defense really played that up. Okay, this is a guy on the edge. He is burnt. He stressed out. He snapped. But they also left out the point that in that clip,

She talks about how he didn't want her. I don't remember the words exactly, but she says that he didn't want her anymore. And this is a case of back and forth. Yeah. Right. It's almost as if whatever one side says, the other is saying the exact opposite, which I think is true in a lot of cases. But this one in particular gives they had more than 50,000 text messages and 20,000. Facebook messages between Ryan and Shana that police reviewed during their investigation.

And you thought I'm on my phone a lot. I did. That is a lot. So in these messages, they definitely showed that the relationship had been rocky over the year and a half or so that they had been together. They weren't together the whole time. They had gaps. They had breakups and all that, the prosecution picked out messages that clearly indicated that Ryan was trying to end the relationship and was trying to distance himself from Shane. But the defense was able to point to messages that contradicted that. And that's why I said it was like, this whole case is a series of contradictions. Yeah, I mean, I definitely think they had one of those love, hate relationships.

There was something going on for sure because. You know, one text message would be, you know, I can't stand you. I don't want to do this anymore. Right. And then the defense would bring up that, okay, the night before Ryan was killed, he invited Shana to dinner with his family. Yeah. It's just on and off.

Love, hate. Like, you said. You know, could send the wrong signal or mixed signals to, you know, the other person. Wait, do you not want me? Do you want me? Sure. Well, and there are a relationship. relationships like that.

Yeah. Everything's good for a while. Things boil over. I can't stand you. We part. I got to have you back. Right. It happens.

Come back. Yeah. It happens. Now, most people don't have their messages dissected in open court. Apparently, the two of them argued that night before at this dinner because the day of the shooting, Shana texted an apology. She wrote to rhyme. I'm so sorry.

I was so emotional. The other thing that was a big part of the prosecution's case were text messages between Shana and her friends. There was a message from Shana to a friend that said, Shana felt like turning around and shooting Ryan on an October 2nd visit, the two of them made to the gun range. That's not good. That's definitely not good. That means you had.

You're thinking about it. Yeah. You know, weeks before the murder, you're thinking about. killing this man. Now, the friend testified that, okay, at the time she got it, she didn't really think much about it. You know, people blowing off steam. You and I have talked about this quite a bit. But of course, after she found out about Ryan's death, she thought it was much more serious. It meant something different to her. Sure. I can see that. And she testified to that on the stand. And actually, the prosecutor did a really good job of kind of coaxing her into

okay, was there a different context to this text message after you found out about the murder? And she said, yeah, there was. This friend also testified that Ryan had told her he was finished with Shana and that he was going to end their relationship. Now, this is some damaging stuff. No doubt about it. Well, nobody likes to be told that the relationship's over. No. Some people don't take it very well at all.

The prosecution pointed out some other messages from Shana to some other friends. One was my love has turned to hate. My brain has a trip water in there somewhere. And if it snaps, I worry what could happen. He says he's only with me because he feels so awful about it when I cry when he breaks up with me. Well, if he's staying with you because you're crying and you know that works, You're going to keep doing that? Why would you do that anyway?

And I think the other thing is interesting is she says, my love has turned to hate. Well, she said the same thing on the call. Or in the interrogation. Yeah. She said the exact same thing. So it's not like that was the first time that happened. If she's saying it here, clearly it happened, you know, prior.

Yeah. I think she's just using that. Well, and you know a jury is smart enough to put that together, right? They hear it on the interrogation tape. Now they're hearing that she's texted the same thing to friends prior to the murder. One message pointed to the fact that Shana Huber was seeing someone named Patrick leading up to Ryan's death. The message was, it's going to be hard to one day choose between Patrick and Ryan.

One means the future. And one means being with someone I love who doesn't love me as much. obviously to me the first one is Patrick right and the second one is Ryan but it also sounds like she's hedging her bets you know sounds like she really wants to make sure she's married and to me it sounds like she really knows that deep down yeah Ryan doesn't love her maybe he did at one point maybe he never did but at that point in time the relationship is I don't know if it's in shambles but it's definitely fizzling. Yeah. To say the least. And, you know, people, they really don't like rejection. They don't like not to be that person that the other one wants. Well, no. Who wants not to be able to

have something that they want to have? If you feel strongly about someone and you find out that they don't feel the same way about you, right? That hurts. Oh, big time. It doesn't feel good. I think all of us at one point or another, except for probably you, have been in that situation. It's not a good feeling. It's not a good feeling at all. But Gibbs, I think what all of these text messages do is they provide a little bit of a window,

right, into Shana's mindset and maybe a little bit into Ryan's as well. Yeah, but I definitely believe that she had this vision of being married and having this opulent lifestyle. And, you know, I think, he probably could provide that. Oh, I think he could have provided that. But I think somewhere

along the way and probably not that far into the relationship, he probably realized that this was not going to be the woman that he was going to marry. I don't think he ever was in that stage of thought. No, I think for him, she was a convenient girlfriend. Yeah. I mean, I don't think that's the wrong way to put it. You know, I'm sure he had some type of feelings for her. Yeah. But at a certain point, there's no doubt that he was trying to move away. The problem that a lot of people have with it is he would never completely move away. Right. The night before he's killed. Yeah. He's saying, hey, come have dinner with my family. That's not really indicative of somebody that is trying to distance themselves, trying to end a relationship.

But like she said, clearly he just wasn't a monster because he, as soon as she would cry and say, please don't leave me, he'd be like, okay, I'll stay, right? Because he felt bad. He did, yeah. If he was a monster about it, he would just be like, hey, we're done. See ya. That's a good point. Change my number.

Don't come back. One thing that came out at trial was that Ryan Poston had a date, the night he was killed. With a woman named Audrey Bolt, the two had met on Facebook, Gibbs, Audrey Bolt was Miss Ohio. That's impressive because Miss Ohio is top notch, always. Always. She was the second runner up at the Miss USA pageant to another Miss Ohio. There's only one Miss Ohio. I'm just saying, you know, because we're from Ohio, you know.

Ohio is so great. They get two entries. Yeah. No. Audrey testified at trial. that she was waiting on Ryan. They were scheduled to have drinks at a bar the night he was killed. So this is what the prosecution argued.

Right. Shana found the Facebook messages between Ryan and Audrey. Or at the very least, she found out that he was going on this date. It sent her into a rage that ended with her shooting Ryan Poston. A detective testified about the, the crime scene and basically said it didn't match up with Huber's version of events. Right. Her version was Ryan not only verbally, but physically assaulted me.

Threw me around the room. Right. Is what she said. The detective said there was nothing out of place. In fact, there were some pill bottles on the dining room table where Ryan was killed. They weren't even knocked over. The furniture, the whatever was it. in that condo didn't look like there was a fight that had occurred.

She mentioned on the call. She said she was thrown into the couch, but she also said on the call she didn't have any injuries. If you're being thrown around like a rag doll, you know, because what, she's like 5 foot 8, he's 6 foot 3, 200 some pounds. You would think you'd have some type of injury. I mean, you throw me around here sometimes. I don't come out unscathed.

You don't come out unscathed either. That too. But no, I get where you're going at. You know, I think investigators are putting all of this together or had put it all together. And the prosecutor is as well. The crime scene doesn't look like there was some type of altercation. She doesn't have the type of injuries that maybe they might expect she would have. So is she telling the truth? They believe not. And she's saying she's upset over him going out with this Miss Ohio. If I was in the defense, I would argue that a little bit because I'd say she's dating somebody else. She's got this Patrick guy.

I don't know if she was really that upset over him seeing somebody. And they may have. I didn't see that. I mean, I didn't have every detail of the trial. Right. But there were text messages that indicated she was dating. So maybe that was part of their argument. forensics and ballistics experts testified that Shana Huber's had gunshot residue on her hands.

I don't think that was a big bombshell. No. There was never any doubt that she fired a gun, the gun that killed Ryan Poston that multiple times. Multiple times. The prosecution did call a cellmate of Huber's who testified that she admitted killing Ryan out of jealousy because he wanted to leave her. Again, the validity of a jailhouse or an inmate who testifies.

Some people discount that testimony. And I understand why they do. Shana Huber's didn't take the stand. She basically let her words to police on the interview tapes make her statement that she acted in self-defense. The problem I have, Gibbs, is I don't think the tape. casts her in a very good light. We've played some of it.

If those tapes are what you're hoping keeps you from going to jail, you're going to jail. But at the same time, probably not a great idea for her to get on the stand and open herself up to cross. No, I would think anybody, just hearing those interview tapes and the 911 tape, you would say, no, you're never going to be able to get on the stand. I do not want the prosecution to get a hold of you. No, they would have torn her up. Shana's mother did testify.

She said that she received a call from Shana in the early morning hours of October 12, the day of the shooting. She said she could tell her daughter was very upset. She got in her car around 4 a.m. and drove from Lexington to Ryan's condo where Shana was staying. It was about 70, 80 miles. So, you know, hour and 15 minutes, give her take. Her mom testified that Shana acted as though she was extremely fearful.

The defense also called its own ballistics experts who testified that there was no way to know which shot killed Ryan Poston. They also said that they believed he was in motion when the first bullet struck him, which to them meant that it was possible. he could have been the aggressor. So they're trying to plant in the jury's mind that he's coming after her, he's in motion, she's firing in self-defense. But also, if you're going to pull a gun on me in close range, I'm going to go towards you anyway.

I'm not going to pull back. I have a better chance of moving towards you in close range to try to get that gun directed elsewhere versus stepping back and giving you even a more direct target. Okay. Jason Bourne. We got you. You're a badass. No further explanation needed. I will take that gun. I will take apart three pieces. Boom, boom. And then drop it on the ground. Yeah. And we go, now what? But here is what I think was the defense's biggest problem. To me, I think gives it was finding evidence to show to the jury that Ryan was physically and verbally abusive to Shana.

From what I could gather, they just didn't have it. They didn't have anything or anyone to prove that he was. Yeah. Because I couldn't find anything about a witness that said, yes, I saw Ryan behave in this manner. Right.

They didn't have that. That's a tough thing to prove if you don't have any witnesses. Well, you can't establish a pattern, right? So what you're left with was, okay, he stressed. Right. He snapped this one night.

When he's about ready to go meet Miss Ohio. Yeah. Let's not forget that. He snapped and he became physically violent. Right. That's what they're hanging their hat on. But even if that's true, let's just say that is true. He did terrible things and she shot him.

He was down. He wasn't moving besides twitching. I think it's easy to say at that point, you are no longer in danger. In danger. Yep. Step outside, step away. Call the, and you heard the dispatch.

Yeah. The 911 operator say that. So you went back and shot him instead of calling 911. Yeah. To the point that you shot him and then you said that you walked around him and decided to go ahead and shoot him. Shoot him where you knew that even though he was dead, he would really be dead or whatever she said. And I didn't really think. talk about it on one of the tapes, but, you know, I think she told investigators that he was

going to be dead in 20 seconds. Yeah. And I didn't make a big deal about it, but, you know, she didn't go to school for medicine. And even if she did, it's kind of a hard determination to make. I think later on she changed it to two minutes. Two minutes. It's like, he's going to be dead in 20 seconds. He's going to be dead in two minutes. Well, he will be if he keep putting bolts in him. In their closing arguments, both. sides used Shana's own words from the 911 call and her interviews to drive home their points. The defense team used the 911 call. And they said that Shana called 911 so quickly.

She didn't have time to make up a story. Now, I think even according to her, she did wait about 10 or 15 minutes. And that is a very long time in a situation like this. Seems like it. Yeah. They also argued that prosecutors. could not prove Ryan didn't attack her, which I think is true. You can't prove that it didn't happen. Right. Now, what the defense did acknowledge was that Shauna was obsessive when it came to Ryan,

but they said that did not make her a murderer. And I think they had to admit that. When all the text messages, when all the Facebook messages came out, I don't think there was any doubt. that she was pretty obsessed with this guy. Yeah, I mean, over 50,000 text messages and 20-some thousand Facebook messages. Well, so I don't know if it was the number because I don't know how many of those were hers. I don't know how many of those were his, but I think it was more of the content. Yeah. You know, you and I are not used to those type of staggering numbers of text messages and Facebook messages,

but that may not be that far out of the norm for people in their 20s. Yeah, maybe not. Maybe that's just probably every little response counts as a message, right? LLL. It would. It would. It's a message. But I think it was the content that people really pointed to.

Now, the prosecution, they really used her interview tapes. And I want to play another part of the interview, her interrogation, that the prosecution used. He had put his arm across the table and there's a lamp. And he had put his arm across the table and had it in my face and was screaming at me at the top of his lungs. After he had thrown me around the room and was saying emotionally to me, you're a fucking hell, I fucking hate you. I hate everything about you for what you all? He had his hand on the table and he wasn't completely standing up.

He was like this. He was sitting, he was enough that went like this. Literally. That's when I knew he was dead or close to it and twitching. And I couldn't, I love him. I still, even though the hurt, I still enough of me, loved him. But I couldn't stand to watch him twitch. I knew he was going to die or have it completely deformed.

face. He's very vain. One of our last conversations we had that was good was that he wants my best friend he's a dentist to do with the nearest and wants to get a no-job. Just that kind of person. And I'm right here. I gave him his nose job. He wanted. So I wanted to save that one. Wow. Because that was a big moment at trial in the closing for the jury to hear. That's a tough one to recover from. Yeah. I mean, why would, you say that. You've shot this man. You've killed him. You're trying to say it was in self-defense, but now you're saying the guy was so vain. He wanted a nose job. All right, I gave it to him. Yeah, I gave him his nose job. That's almost like revenge type talk. That's not self-defense type talk.

And if you go back to what she was saying in the beginning, he was not quite seated at the table. Right. He was, you can't see, you have to see the video, but kind of almost up. Right. She said he called her a effing hillbilly. Yeah. And said some derogatory things about her parents. But it didn't sound like from that point he was coming after her. Yeah, it sounds like she just picked up the pistol and shot him. Yeah.

And I think this was played up by the prosecution, right? All of these different versions, none of them really kind of mesh together. A lot of them contradicted each other. You know, first he's standing up, I took the gun from him. Now he's sort of seated at the table. He's calling me names. He's calling my family names and I shot him. I think the other problem I have with all this is, why didn't she just ask for an attorney? Why did she feel like she had to talk? Oh, she talked freely. Yeah. And really wouldn't be quiet. She had no problem talking. Did she just really believe what she was saying?

I think like a lot of people, and you and I have touched on this before, she thought she was smart enough to lay out this self-defense story. Right. Put on a little act and the police would buy that. I mean, you hurt her. Am I in trouble? Nobody's going to marry me. Those are all thoughts of, hey, I'm walking away from this thing. Right.

Gibbs, I want to play one more clip from the interview. You. Yes, I did. So obviously you hear her singing Amazing Grace. There's no doubt she has a good voice. Sure. But it's the end of that clip that I think probably would have stuck in the minds of jurors. She says, almost in a sing-songy type way, I did it.

Yes, I did it. I can't believe I did that. Yeah. Now, you can argue what those. words actually mean, but I don't think there's any doubt that a juror could take them to mean she's admitting to murdering Ryan Post it. Yeah. Again. It's got some jinx-like qualities to it. It does. There's another part of the interview, and I could find it, but where she apparently says, I'm such a good actor. And I think that was played in court. I just couldn't find it to play for

the audience, Gibbs, do people not know that just because the police or the investigators are not in the interrogation room, they're still being filmed? I think they don't. I just, again, ask for an attorney, period. Your attorney will take care of everything. Well, she would have never even gotten to that point. I mean, glad she did. Sure. But I'm just saying, And this is this another prime example of why you, you know, lock it up and don't say nothing and get an attorney. So after a two-week trial, it took the jury about five hours to find Shana Hubers guilty of the murder of Ryan Poston.

The prosecution wanted life for Shana, but the jury recommended 40 years with credit for the time that she had already served. So she would be eligible for parole in 20 years. and that's exactly what the judge gave her. But it didn't happen until August because there were a number of hearings that delayed the sentencing. A psychologist testified that Shana Huber's had a narcissistic personality, a damaged self-image, and an extreme difficulty with rejection.

Hard to argue with any of that based on what we've know and what we've heard. Sure. The judge denied a motion by the defense that Ryan and Shana were an unmarried couple under Kentucky law. And therefore, she should be considered a victim of domestic abuse and eligible for early parole. So for this, she took the stand for this hearing. She's already been convicted. Right. But before sentencing, she took the stand.

and her defense attorney tried to establish her relationship with Ron. But the prosecutor got her to say that she didn't live with him. She also pointed to text messages and said to Shana, you cooked, you cleaned for him. You are his food delivery lady based on some text messages that she saw. Right. Then the prosecutor hit Shana with the claim that she had apparently slept with

10 different men. during a seven-month period where she and Ryan had broken up, again, getting all of this from text messages, Shana said, I may have slept with 10 different guys in 2012, but I don't see how it's relevant to any of this shit. Really? That's what she said on the stand. Okay. But I think the big thing here Gibbs is the denial of this claim, right?

This unmarried couple claim. It was big. because if it had gone the other way, Shana would have been eligible for parole. Right. After, I think, like, eight years. Yeah, so she could have potentially be out that soon, right? Eight years.

Do eight years you're out if the court agrees. Yes. I mean, obviously the parole board and all that. During sentencing, the judge called the murder of Ryan Poston, quote, as cold-blooded an act as I've seen in my more than three decades in the legal system. He said to Shana, I never heard a word or saw a look from you that said, I'm sorry. Great point. And that was a big point in this case. You go back to the interrogation

video and the audio that we heard, her demeanor in court. It was pretty much universal that nobody thought she was sorry at all, that it even happened. Right. And I think the judge is saying that. So Gibbs normally that would be the end of it. But in 2016, the courts overturned Huber's conviction on appeal because one of the jurors in her trial turned out to be a convicted felon. Now, how does that happen? So apparently this man who served on the jury in her trial, he had fallen behind on child support payments all the way back in like 1992.

Okay. The next year in 1993, he pleaded guilty to a felony. It was described as kind of a small felony. Right. I don't know how you measure the degrees of felonies, but it was a felony to pay child support, failure to pay child support. But here's the amazing thing. So it just so happened that the attorney that was handling Shane's a

appeal defended this guy years earlier in his case. Really? And she recognized his name from the list of jurors. So she wasn't involved in the trial at all. She was hired later on to do the appeal. And she said, I know that guy. I defended him and he pleaded guilty to a felony. There's no way under it on this jury.

Yeah, under Kentucky law, he could not serve on the jury. Now, on his questionnaire, the guy had checked the box that said he had never been convicted of a felony. Right. And in a lot of the articles I read, it was like, hey, they don't really check into that all that much. Well, maybe they should. Yeah, there was a lot of question whether or not that should be reformed. Maybe it has been in the year since. But like you said, this case is not that old.

No. This trial's not that old. So because of the law, the judge had no choice, but to overturn. turn the conviction, the state would have to try Shana Huber's again. So she's waiting in jail, right, for her retrial or her second trial. In June 2018, she got married. Shana married a transgender inmate named Unique Taylor, previously known as Richard McBee. Apparently, Unique was in jail, awaiting trial for a 2016 robbery arrest, and and for violating her probation in Tennessee.

The probation stemmed from a 2003 conviction for making and dealing meth. It's a bad hobby. Yeah. So there's that. Yeah. She finally found the love she wanted. She tied the knot. Yeah.

In jail. Her second trial started in August 2018. And essentially the two sides pretty much stuck with what they had in the first trial. you know, the prosecution stating that Shana killed Ryan because she found out he was leaving her, the defense saying that Shana shot Ryan in self-defense. Ryan's father took the stand and talked about how Ryan had confided in him that he was ending the relationship with Shana. Ryan's uncle testified that this lawsuit that had been hanging over Ryan's head and that the defense made such a big deal. out of, you know, that it was causing him so much stress.

Right. Really wasn't. The uncle said he talked to Ryan at 6 p.m. on the night he was killed. And he sounded happy. He said he wasn't even really worried about that lawsuit. And then the prosecution brought a husband and wife who lived in the condo beneath Ryan. They both took the stand. And they both testified that they didn't hear anything in the way of.

fighting. Yeah. Or the noises that you would normally associate with a altercation or a fight coming from Ryan's condo before the shots were fired. That's telling. It is. Because I can tell you where I live. As a person who lives below somebody.

Yeah. And above that. You can hear it all. You can hear it all. Now, the one thing they did say is that they heard a woman crying. outside on the porch prior to the shots being fired. Maybe she just was not happy finding out about Miss Ohio. It could be.

That'd be rough. The prosecution called another witness who did not testify at the first trial. This was a woman who worked at the perfume counter at a department store. She testified that Shane came to her counter that day and was very upset. she made a comment that she was going to kill him. Now, this lady had no idea who him, him was,

but obviously that's a damaging statement. When your quasi-boyfriend later that night turns up dead. Yeah, that's not good for you. Gibbs, Shana Hubers took the stand this time in her second trial to try to convince the jury that she acted in self-defense. I guess at that point,

what does she have to lose? Maybe that's what she was thinking. Maybe that's what her defense team was thinking. It didn't work the first time. And it's not like they had some new bombshell evidence that was going to turn the case on its ear. Well, she also probably still thinks she's smarter than the rest of them anyway. That I'll get on the stand. I can probably clear this up if I get up there.

Yeah. I don't doubt that at all. On the stand, Shane accused Ryan of force. her to perform different types of sex acts, she made a big deal about the fact that she could not have an orgasm with Ryan. And according to her, this made him very angry. So she's trying to, I think, plant a seed in the jury's mind that, you know, sexual frustration, he's upset with me. It's part of why he snapped. Now, the prosecution produced some texts that had Shana expressing her gratitude to Ryan for being so understanding about the issue. Yeah. So I do believe it was a real thing.

Right. But in all the text messages, and remember, they have 50,000 plus. Right. They couldn't find any where he was upset about it. So it kind of damaged her testimony and actually they were able to refute it. It's just a strange thing to bring up to try to use that as the reason behind it. Well, again, I think you're trying to find something else, right? What happened at the first trial did not work, but trying to throw some things at the wall. But you also got to realize that and her defense team should have told her they're going to look through the text messages. You know, so we have to be really careful what we say because otherwise it's just going to backfire, which just did. And I don't know.

maybe they didn't know. I'd be surprised if they didn't. But maybe they didn't know she was going to go down that avenue. Say certain things on the stand. Maybe she went rogue. Maybe she went Maverick. But I think the big thing that came out of her testimony was Shana trying to explain why she fired so many shots. One was that when I first shot him, he let out a really loud noise that sounded like an animal.

It was a very animalistic noise. It scared me. It freaked me out. I also, when I first shot it, wasn't sure where the shots had entered or if I had just made him more angry, and therefore he was more of a threat and would just, it would make the situation even more severe. And then thirdly, I had the mistake in belief that there was another gun on the table. And you... I know now that there wasn't another gun on the table, but at the time I thought that there was.

And you were concerned. enough for Mr. Poston that you wanted to make sure you didn't have to live with a deformed face, weren't you? I said that. She shot him. Yeah. But wasn't sure where the bullet entered. Okay.

Do you buy that? Do you buy that her shooting him might have made him more angry? It's like she's talking about shooting a rhino. Yeah. That is then going to charge you because it didn't penetrate the skin. or something. It seems to me that again, it's contradictory to some of the things that she said in the past, which was he's twitching. Right. And then I shot him some more. Yeah. Now she's acting like she shot him and he was a grizzly bear about ready to get up and attack. Yeah. Just doesn't add up.

It doesn't. This trial also lasted about two weeks. And again, took the jury about five hours to return a guilty verdict. But Gibbs, this is what. where things differed between the first and second trial. The outcome was the same. Right. Guilty. This time the jury recommended a life sentence. The first jury recommended a 40 year sentence.

And that's what she got. Sure. Prior to sentencing, Ryan's family made statements. And I think the one that was the most impactful was Ryan's sister Katie. She brought a teddy bear. with her to the stand. And it was one of those teddy bears that when you press the hand, it would play something. In this case, when she pressed it, it played Ryan's voicemail greeting. And his sister Katie said on the stand, that's it. That's all we have. Yeah, wow. A voicemail.

And from everything you read, there was not a dry eye in the courtroom, probably with the exception of Shana Huber's. Right. That's a, it'd be tough to recover from that. It was extremely powerful the way it was reported. The Poston family issued a statement after the conviction. They said, quote, today we embrace justice and yet we do not feel joy. It has been six long and heartbreaking years without our beloved Ryan. In the statement Gibbs, they went on to say how grateful they were for all of the people who had worked so hard to get justice for Ryan, Hubert's defense team right away wanted the judge to declare a mistrial. Of course. Which he said, no. Right. He decided against that. And then it was in October that the judge handed down the sentence to Shana Hubers. The prosecution asked for life.

Huber's defense team had asked for a minimum of 20 years. The jury recommended life. We know that. prosecution even brought up what they called Shana's questionable behavior while incarcerated, namely the fact that she married a felon who had spent 14 years in federal custody. They were trying to, I guess, use that against her. Sure. Saying she's not using good judgment. The judge ultimately handed down a sentence of life in prison. He told her that she picked up a gun off a table and she.

and shot her boyfriend six times. Quote, your actions that evening were grossly violent and intentionally calculated to cause his death. So you've got to look at this. You know, normally getting a new trial is a good thing. Oh. Right?

Yeah. That's what all defense teams are trying to do with their appeals. They get a new trial. In this time, she went from having a 40-year, sentence to a life sentence. It's huge, man. You kind of backfired a little.

Now, it wasn't life without parole. So she will be eligible for parole. I believe with time already served sometime around the year 2032. Okay. What was I going to park her at? Age wise. Yeah. She was what, 21 in 2012, so 41?

41, yeah. That's relatively young. Yeah. for you and I because we're both older than that. But even if she were to get out on her first shot, which I highly doubt. Right. True. When a parole board looks at everything that she did, all the circumstances and the fact that

she's basically shown no remorse. Right. And even in prison after, you know, all of this, she's made disparaging comments about his family. I think she's had she's done interviews where, you know, there's no remorse. If anything, she's kind of been on the attack a little bit. I think she's had some nasty things to say about his sister. It's just not the way that you set things up for years down the road to go before a parole board. It's not like those things are going to go away. There's a historical record of everything you've said. They're time stamped out there. So, I mean, to me, Gibbs, this.

is a very interesting case, albeit a tough one for the families involved. You look at Ryan's family. They had to sit through two trials. They had to wait a long time before this final life sentence was finally imposed. That back and forth had to be gut wrenching. She's going away. She has to be retried. All of that took years. And I really don't want to forget about Shane's family either. You know, I didn't have a lot of background about them. Right. But from everything I read, it seemed like it was a good family. I think they raised her to do the right thing. They sent her to great schools. We mentioned it. She was bright. She had a really great future ahead of her. I'm sure they're hurting as well. Oh, absolutely. And again, to me, this is one of those cases where it's really

hard for me to understand how things went so badly so quickly or that they escalated to the point where someone was shot this young man lost his life yeah i mean you know jealousy's huge man they can really make people do things they normally wouldn't do i think well you and i cover a ton of cases yeah outside of just random sadistic serial killers i mean what are most murders caused by. Jealousy slash love. Right. Gride, money. Money. I mean, you know, revenge. I mean, there's, there's a few things, but it's really comes down to a handful of things. Yeah. And money slash greed and love slash jealousy is at the root of a lot of them. And she was definitely jealous. She didn't want him to go out with Miss Ohio. And she didn't want to lose him. I mean, I think if you

look at the psychologist and what he said is his diagnosis. There was definitely some, I don't know if it was mental illness, but she definitely had some issues. Well, maybe she was a little bit insecure because she was dating this Patrick guy, but hanging on hopes that her and Ryan were going to eventually get married. She really wanted to be with Ryan. That's what I take away from this. She really wanted to be with him, but I don't think she thought that was going to be possible. So she had this Patrick guy as her backup. Yeah, you could be right about that. I think you're right in the fact that she was hoping for the fairy tale ending with Ryan. Yes. And I think over time, she started to see that it was less and less likely. Yeah. And, you know, if she really did find out

about this date with Miss Ohio, if she did see these Facebook messages, as the prosecution claims. I mean, that's their theory. That could be what set her over the edge. It could have been. One of the problems I have with the case like this is at the end of it, you're left not really knowing 100%.

There's no video. Right. That shows you that she didn't get attacked and was acting in self-defense. Now, I think we, just like a jury, can form our opinion. based off of, and we didn't see all the evidence, obviously, but, you know, the tapes and her comments and the contradictions in her story and the things that just don't make sense, kind of all lead me, at least, to believe that I don't think this guy attacked her at all. I mean, for somebody that claimed to be a really good actress.

Yes. She didn't really do a really good job at that. I mean, I wasn't convinced at all. If anything, you got the feeling in all the clips that something's not right here. Exactly. So, yeah, she is not winning the Oscar. No. She's not going to win an Emmy.

She's definitely not going to win a Tony, although she can't sing. And the problem is that she takes away from the real issue when this happens. There's women and men that are in bad situations, right, that abuse. You're talking about a physical abuse. Yeah. And I do think that's one of the things that stuck out to me because you want to believe women. Yeah.

When they say that they've been abused. Sure. Because it happens a lot. It happens a lot. And it primarily happens to women. I'm not saying men don't get abused. Right. But the percentages obviously skewed in the direction of women.

Sure. You want to believe them. You naturally have to gravitate towards. that. Then when you have a case like this, it's almost like you feel bad because you don't believe her. Right. Yeah, exactly. You're like, what if? What if? But nothing's pointing to the fact that it happened. Right. And you don't see any history of it. Yeah. And you think, well, you're using this as your reason. Meanwhile, somebody else is actually having this happening to them. But now they may not be believed because of the way you're telling your story. Yeah. But that's it. That's the case of

Shana Hubers. Gibbs, we've got some voicemails. You want to check those out? Yeah. Hey, Mike. Hey, Gibby. My name's Carolyn. I was actually sitting here crocheting as I heard my little sister Rose up in Kansas

on your voicemail and wish me happy birthday. And it really means a lot. I've been a band for a really long time. I've heard like six people on your podcast. And I would love to crochet you guys something. So hit me up. Send me an email or I'm on Instagram at yarnomancy.

Yeah, I've tagged True Crime all the time in a post or two. And yeah, I do actually sit here and listen while I crochet and it just made my morning crochet and tee cat. I love you guys.

Stay safe, keep your own time ticking. Bye. So I thought that was pretty cool, Gibbs because her sister did something really nice. And they both share a love of the show. So,

Kell, Carolyn goes by Kell, she and I have been emailing back and forth, And she is making us some stuff. She's in the process of doing it right now. Yeah. Well, you also have that passion. Of crochet. Yeah.

So, yeah, so she and I are sharing that love as well. You have the, you used the bigger needle thingy, you know, the number 12 crochet pen. The fact that you even know that they come in numbers has just now given you away, because I had no idea what you're talking about. You've given yourself away. Not me. Maybe my daughter. You do that all the time.

Yeah. Mike and Gibby, I just finished. And I just started a couple months ago. I travel a lot. So I listen to you guys a lot. I'm going to say that y'all crack me up, especially Gibby with his calculations of money and Mike going. Also how Gibby knows zero movies. So we actually Gibbs have not had really much lately in the way of money talk.

There hasn't been really any old. money for me to ask you what that would be today. She just wants to hear you do that. Beepo, beepo, beep, boop. There you go. There you go. Hi, my name is Michaela from Puea, Washington. I just had a suggestion for an episode or maybe a few.

But the Green River killer, Gary Ridgeway, between 1880 and 90s, he was convicted of 49 murders, but from my research or from what I've seen, he was suspected of killing a little more than 70, sex workers and young women around that area, the Green River. My grandfather actually... So I think that it would be really interesting to hear how you guys would communicate all of that information. Thank you. You guys are super awesome.

And keep your own time kicking. Hey, thanks. Appreciate that. Yeah, something happened there. I don't know what happened in the... Yeah. Voice. You and I have not done the Green River Killer.

Not yet. Morphine. did a number of episodes on criminology, but you and I definitely have Ridgeway planned as a future T-Cat. Yeah, we've talked about him before. He's a big timer. Yes. I mean, he's on my list as a big timer. Number one, his victim count is huge. Right. The known victim count is huge. Yeah. The possible victim count is unbelievable. Hey, Mike and Gibby. This is Ashley from Carrollton, Texas. I just just finish listening to your George Sovini episode

and I'm kind of creeped out because my next door neighbor, his initial was the same. He has the same job. He acts the same way towards women. When I first bought my house about 10 years ago, he was really nice to me until he found out I had a boyfriend and then

he went like crazy psycho on me. And he even like whenever my lawn guy came went off on me about my lawn guy like mowing like three inches of his lawn like in the front ridiculous like I was like you're welcome giving five dollars for that you didn't think that was funny because psychopaths don't think things like that are funny I guess but anyways like I was looking to it I was like hmm

if I could be that guy I don't want to say the same Greg anyways thanks for everything you guys do I love your podcast keep your own time thicken guess she's uh gonna put her house up for sale soon yeah it sounds like she's got the neighbor from hell and you know I joke around about it, but not to scare her, but it's something to definitely keep an eye on. Sure. It doesn't seem right. Now, I've had some strange neighbors over the years. I had words with neighbors, but it's not something I really worried about.

With her, I think it's definitely something to keep your head on a swivel about. My neighbors are all great. Does that make me the weird one, the strange one? No, I just think you're friendlier than I am with neighbors. Yeah. You know, or I've had a bad batch, man. I'm telling you. I have people that won't wave back to me. And literally, I lived next to these one people for 10 plus years. Right. I would wave every day, knowing that they weren't going to

wave back. Right. Never had a crossword with them. You're just like, come on. I'm not going to give up. No, I just kept waving. Yeah. So anyway. All right, Gibbs, we had some mailbag. Yeah. We just had one thing come in. Okay. It was from Kathy Tinsensky, and she sent us a bunch of stuff from the Harley dealership in College Station, Texas. Cool. Five points, if you can tell me what college is in College Station, Texas. Texas A&M.

Yeah. How'd you know that? That's just random, pull it out of my. Well, you were right. Yeah. Wow. Texas A&M. That's amazing.

That backfired on me. Yeah, it did. I was getting ready to go. go $1,000 when you waited that long. I'm glad I didn't. Yeah. But she sent us, I mean, chips, pens, lighters, can kusies, lip bomb, basically bought out a whole section of the Harley store there. Dang, man. And sent it to us. That's great. Thank you. Yeah, very much appreciate it. All right, buddy. That is it for another episode of True Crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.