True Crime All The Time - Stacey Castor

Episode Date: September 19, 2022

Stacey Castor killed two husbands for money. Her favored method of murder was poison. She even tried to poison her own daughter in an attempt to blame her for the murders. In 1999, her first husband of 14 years died and his death was ruled a suicide. Her second husband died in 2005 after only two years of marriage. Good detective work and DNA finally put Stacey Castor on the radar of police for murder.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss black widow poisoner Stacey Castor. Castor is suspected of at least one additional murder by poison. She used antifreeze to kill, which resulted in slow, painful deaths. But, once she figured out that the police were on to her, she panicked. That's when she tried to kill her own daughter and frame her for the murders. We are talking about one seriously evil woman here.You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

everyone and welcome to episode 301 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson, but not in studio with me today. It is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Sad news to report. Gibby's mother passed away earlier this week. So he's grieving. I'd ask everyone to send out your your thoughts, your good vibes, your prayers to Gibby because yeah, he's going through a rough time. and a lot of us have been there. It's not easy. So obviously, we didn't get into the studio together this week to record episodes. So what we decided to do was to put out Patreon episodes for both TCAT and TCAT Unsolved. We have almost 50 Patreon episodes that we've done throughout the years.

So they will all be brand new to the majority of listeners. On Unsolved, we're talking about the disappearance. of Michelle Harris. And this is a very interesting case. It's been covered by, you know, a lot of true crime shows, 20 20, day line, 48 hours, things like that because there's a lot of mystery and intrigue in this one that surrounds Michelle's husband, Cal Harris. But it's a good episode. Make sure you go check that out. We're not doing any Patreon names, no voicemails. We'll get back to all that stuff next week when we're able to actually be in studio. together and record. So I'm going to start the episode. Enjoy. Gives, are you ready to get into this

Patreon episode of True Crime all the time? I'm ready. So we're talking about a woman named Stacey Castor who poisoned not one, but two husbands for money. So she's, she's a poisoner. Right. She then tried to kill her daughter and pinned the murders on. her. You know, so obviously, yeah, we're in mother of the year territory here. But such a strange case once I, you know, really started getting into all the facts. Stacey Caster was born in 1967 in Clayton, New York. So we're up in, I think, we're in like suburbs of Syracuse area. Okay. I believe. Yeah. is where this whole story takes place.

Or all that snow hits. Yeah. She was born to Jerry Daniels and Judy Eden. I'm going to call her Castor. Obviously, she wasn't born, Stacey Castor. But I'm going to call her that throughout the episode because that's the name she's most known by. And it tends to get confusing when, you know, you're married a number of times and you have to switch back and forth. What are you looking at me for?

Not for that reason. Just because you have had multiple names. That's true. Still do. I still do, depending on what state I'm in. Yeah. I picture that scene in Jason Bourne where he goes into the safe deposit box opens it up and there's just you have seven or eight different types of money, seven or eight

passports, guns. Can never have enough passports. That's true. So. Because you just never know where you need to be. When you get to get the heck out of Dodge. Not much childhood here, really, in this story. Number one, I couldn't find it.

Right. And I think number two, you know, in a story like this, I don't know how much it matters. You know, when you're talking about serial killers as much, and we do a lot. Sure. And trying to figure out, okay, why did they do what they did? how did they become the person that they became. We oftentimes see things in their childhood that kind of maybe give a glimpse. Sure, at least that to that direction.

Yes. Or a possibility as to why they became, you know, who they became. You don't see it as often in I think these types of murders. This woman is not a serial killer. she wasn't out killing for enjoyment or fun sport sport those are the type of killers that we often see some really bad red flags on so maybe there was something there but you know i really doubt it because i feel like it would have been reported on this was a case that was pretty heavily reported on right and it's been the subject of a number of you know date lines and

it's out there it's out there it's out there Yeah, I was not aware of it. Or if I was, if I had seen it years and years ago, I did not remember it. So I think really where we picked this story up is in 1985. Stacey would have been about 17 years old. And that's when she met a man named Michael Wallace. He was probably 21, 22. He's four or five years old. Right. And she was in an interview later with A.B. Stacey said that Michael Wallace was the love of her life. And they hit it off immediately, married a couple of years later. The pair had two daughters together.

Ashley was born in 1988. And then Brie was born in 1991. This wasn't a family who had a lot of money. They had jobs, but they didn't have jobs where they were raking in tons of money. Stacey worked as an ambulance dispatch. matcher. Michael did work as a mechanic, but they seemed to make it work. And, you know, according to her, they were in love. Sure. They were building this family. Now, Stacey has told outlets that Michael was the kind of guy who liked to party and maybe had some problems with both

drugs and alcohol, but she didn't cite it as like, oh my gosh, this ruined our marriage or was anything crazy. No, I didn't get it or, or, take it that way. It was more of, yeah, he had some issues that he dealt with or that would crop up, but it didn't wreck their marriage or anything like that. Well, and he was in his early 20s. And who didn't party in their early 20s? Yeah, exactly. I know I did. Yeah, we all know you did. I got married probably about the same time as him. I think I was 22 years old or something. I was still kind of in college Frank to Tank party mode. Yeah.

And my wife will tell you the person I am today is so far removed from the, even from probably the person that you knew when we first met, but definitely from the person that I was when we got married. Can't even get you out of the house. No, I really don't even leave the house. But, you know, I think back then, or I think two back then, and I'm like, who the hell was that guy? Yeah. And how did he make it? How did he survive? Oh, I know, man.

Getting in bar fights and, you know. I think the same thing. Breaking bottles. And I don't know. Yeah. So that alcohol numbed you up. Well, I was not really a drug guy, but I did drink. And, you know, alcohol, like the story goes, makes you 10 feet tall and pick fights.

And then in late 1999. So if you think about it, they were married for. quite a while. Yeah. You know, at least 10 plus years, Michael Wallace was 38 years old. And he started complaining that, you know, he just wasn't feeling well. Family members later told different outlets that, you know, this went on for like six weeks, just off and on, not feeling well.

I don't know what's going on. Can't figure it out. It was like something that he could just, he just couldn't get over. just constantly felt bad. Well, I think it was a little on and off, though. But it was constant in the fact that it just wouldn't go away. So, yeah, I mean, to that point, I think you're right. They had a holiday dinner because, like I said, towards the end of the year, you're getting, you know, around the holidays.

Family members said that, you know, he had a rough, constant cough, and then he looked swollen at this get-together. Okay. They knew something was wrong. They urged him to go to the doctor. And, you know, after six weeks, you got to, you got to start to think. I better go see a physician or something. Maybe something going on here. Yeah.

So he said he would. But it's just, he would never make it to go see a doctor. Just a few weeks later, he was at home on the couch with his daughter, Ashley. You know, Ashley later said, you know, she was only 11 years old. Yeah. But even then at 11 years old, she knew something wasn't right. And she knew something was wrong with her dad. She left the house to go pick up her younger sister, Bree.

I'm assuming walked to get her, would walk her home. When she got back, her dad was dead. That quick. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, well, six weeks is a long time to be suffering from something. you're progressively getting worse and you don't take care of it, there's a good chance you're going to die, depending on, obviously, depending on what it is.

Call that doctor, man. So initially they ruled his death a heart attack. And I think what's interesting was that his wife, Stacey, refused to allow an autopsy, even though there were a bunch of people in his family that wanted one. Sure, what occurred up to this point because he hasn't been feeling good. We need to figure out what that was. Something was wrong. Can we figure it out?

And she was like, no, I don't want that. Okay. You have that sometimes. Sure. I'm pretty sure that was her decision being the spouse. Yeah. She said, no, he was buried at the cemetery. And that was it.

Yeah. You know, until things crop up later. down the road. In 2003, Stacey married a guy named David Caster. So obviously how she got the last name she's known for. Now, David was a pretty successful guy. He owned his own business. And I couldn't figure out if that's where they met.

So I don't know if Stacey already worked there. And that's how they met and got married. Or met him. And then she started working there. But she did work at this business as the office manager. Okay. You know, David had a son named David Jr. from a previous marriage. Obviously, Stacey brought her two daughters with her. There's some conflicting information about whether or not Ashley and Bree kind of struggled with her dad. I saw some conflicting reports. I think Stacey definitely said that they did.

There were some friends and family that said they did. I don't know what the girls have said. I didn't really see. I think, from what I understand, this is a guy who kind of had like a no-nonsense approach. Basically, if I ask you to do something, I expected to be done. Yeah. No questions asked. No. Just do it. Oh, I'm going to finish the last 10 minutes of this SpongeBob SquarePants, you know,

cartoon. And then I'll do it. You know, he seemed to be kind of real by the book, kind of rigid when it came to what he expected to be done. Well, I have two teenage girls and you've had one that was a teenager. You have a girl that was once a teenager. I can tell you right now. Mine do not always do what they're told. They don't jump off the couch and get right to it. No, no. I'm sure people watching, listening can relate. I'll also say that I had a stepfather growing up. My parents separated when I was pretty young. My mom got remarried when I was still pretty young. So I had a stepfather

all the way up until, well, I still do. But I lived with him all the way up until the time I went to college. We didn't always see I die. And again, I think it's pretty normal. We get along great now. Yeah. But when I was a kid, I was always kind of pushing back. And that's a difficult thing, right? Because you're going to test the new relationship. Sure. Right. I think I tested it for a long time. You tested it. Even when it wasn't new, still new. And then you have, you know, the new parent trying to figure out what his or her boundaries are. And what can he say? What can he do without getting in trouble with, you know, his new spouse? I know mine was pretty quick to get on me when I crossed the line, but I did cross the line. Sure. Yeah. So, you know, when he said, here's where the line is. Here's where the boundary is and I stepped across it, you know, I got it. But I'll say that I think that stepfather, stepmother role is a tough one. Oh, it has to be a tough one for for many, many people. So I think the big thing is there was fighting in the house, as there isn't a lot of households from time to time. Now, you have to keep all of this in mind, right? A lot of this comes from Stacy.

So you have to weigh and factor all that in as well. Sure, yeah. In August of 2005, David and Stacey had an argument. Now, there are some conflicting stories here. One I saw was that, you know, David wanted to pair to go on a trip by themselves for their anniversary. Stacey was not willing to leave Ashley and Bree alone at the house. Basically, what Stacey said was David began drinking heavily and he was depressed, you know,

At one point she said he fell down, he couldn't get back up. Yeah. And then eventually she said he locked himself in the bedroom, locked her out. She ended up sleeping on the couch. She even called some of her friends, told them what happened. Some of her friends said, hey, come, as friends would do. Sure, come stay with me. Yeah.

Yeah. Worried about her safety. Then Stacey showed up at the business, the next business day. no David. So she's telling everybody, you know, I don't know what's going on. I've tried and calling him on the cell phone. I can't get a hold of him. Yeah.

Something's wrong. She's setting the stage. Yeah. She eventually called the police, told them that she was worried about David. Again, said the same thing. Tried to call him on his cell phone. I can't get him. Officers went out to the house.

They made entry. Forced their way into the locked bedroom. and they found David Castor dead. Inside the bedroom, they found a glass of half full kind of juice, anaphrase mix. Okay. It's not good. It's not normal.

No. Right? To find next to your bed. You don't drink anifreeze. Now, later, when the medical examiner did the examination, they found anaphrase and David Caster. system. And his death was ruled a suicide. So you have this story from Stacey, right? He's depressed. Yeah. We had this fight. He locked himself in his room, wouldn't talk to me, didn't know what was

going on. I even called my friends and told him. I don't know what he's doing. And so police thought, okay, this guy was so depressed that he mixed some antifreeze with some juice or whatever it was. drank it and he died. So they ruled it a suicide. In interviews with police, Stacey Castor said that her husband, David, had been depressed. And he was acting very strangely. But she said it went back for about a, you know, about a month. He said he, you know, he kept talking about the fact that he thought he's going to die.

He had high blood pressure. He was worried about his health. And he was worried about what would happen to the family. if he died because, okay, the business would falter. Right. He was going to run the business to keep making the money. There would be nothing, you know, for the family. Or even if he was hospitalized for a long period of time, right?

His business would go down, possibly, and he would lose everything. I think that's what she was saying that he was thinking. That's part of the depression and the drinking and all of that. And it's part of the reason why he locked himself in the bedroom with the, the antifreeze. I don't know, Gibbs. I know people get depressed. They get down. Sometimes people make the decision in their life. We know they do. They do. Yep. It's tragic. I wish it didn't happen. You know, a lot of times I think in these stories about, you know, I just wonder what would have happened if they would have reached out to someone for help. Yeah. Talk to someone.

Friend, a hotline, somebody. Yeah, suicide prevention hotline, a therapist, a counselor, you know, anything like that. But aside from that, because we know that does happen. Yep. You know, taking your life by drinking antifreeze, seems like it would be very painful. Just wouldn't be the first choice to come to mind for me. I don't think it's the first choice for many. Yeah.

You know, and again, I don't want to get too heavy. Right. into the topic of suicide, but I think most people know the various methods that the majority of people choose when they make that decision. Antifreezes, it happens, but it's not, you know, it's got to be pretty far down the list. I think too many people are looking to make an anaphrase cocktail. No, I mean, I looked it up. There is a very long list of some really nasty symptoms that,

someone would experience prior to death. And it's not pleasant at all. And I don't know how long it would take, you know, depending on how much you drank and how would you know? And are you going to suffer for a very long period of time? You could do all that and not have enough in your system. And like you say, go through all those pains and still be alive. Yeah.

But I do think I can see how the medical. examiner ruled it as a suicide. Sure. In the beginning, right? The door is locked. The container's there. Yeah. It's in a system. It all adds up. It's in his system. David's dead. She's told this story of depression and locking himself in. Now word from our sponsor, BetterHelp. I don't know about you all, but sometimes I find myself getting stock focusing on a problem or problems in my life instead of solution. Well, that's not the best mindset to be in, but it happens to all of it. You know, it can be tough to train your brain to stay in problem solving mode when faced with the challenge in life. A therapist can help you become a better problem solver, making it easier to accomplish your goals,

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But detectives weren't so sure. You know, they didn't take this and just be like, okay, it's a suicide and we're moving on. I think very early on they had reasons to be doubtful that David Castor did. did purposefully kind of knowingly drink this concoction that contained antifreeze. Yeah. They just didn't think it would have gone down that way. Well, I think they're thinking the way you and I are thinking, right? There's like, just doesn't seem to add up.

There are other ways, which, you know, obviously, again, I don't like talking about that stuff, but would have been less painful, less, what's the word I'm looking for? less prolonged things like that. You keep thinking about the one guy and the godfather, man. The old guy. Yeah. I got you. It's a pain.

But, you know, it wasn't, so it started out as a thought. Okay. Did this really happen the way that Stacey Castor said that she believed it happened? Well, then they started to get some evidence. Yeah. They found her fingerprints on the glass. I don't think they found his. That's a problem.

That's a problem. Yeah. When you're, when you're, when you're thinking that something didn't happen the way that someone's telling you that it happened. You could maybe get away with saying why your fingerprints are on the glass because you live there. It's harder to say it's only your fingerprints on the glass. So without his fingerprints on the glass, how did he drink this concoction that killed him? Then they found a turkey baster in the trash can of the home.

and they did some DNA testing on that. It later came back that it had David's DNA down near the end where the liquid would come out when you squeeze the ball, the tip. Yeah. That's strange, right? It is. I think, you know, you start putting all these things together and eventually police started thinking, hmm, maybe Stacey Castor murdered her husband. and, you know, really over the next two years, they built their case.

So they didn't rush it. No, they took their time. They did. Sometimes that's good. You want to have a very strong case. You know, they tapped her phones to see if she would say something incriminating. I'm not sure that she ever did. There were some, I think, wiretappings played at the trial, but I never.

could really see where they were like big bombshells or, you know, anything like that. No courtroom shockers. Not from the wiretapping. Right. There's going to be some courtroom shockers. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but not from the wiretaps, yeah. Not that I could find. The other thing they did is they surveilled her.

And they put up cameras. I think they also had, you know, police, actual people following her. That's a rough thing that have done to. I mean, remember when the FBI was, yeah. That was a long period of time. And it was just, it wore you down mentally. It did. It really did.

Especially when they had the helicopter up in the air that one time. Rough. I think with Stacy Castor, the thing that they found the most surprising is that she never once went to the cemetery to visit David's grave. That's a problem, I think. You know, I mean, if you love this guy. Right. You were shocked and you can't believe something happened to him. And it just happened.

When you go, at least now and then. Right. In the first year, you don't go. in the first two years you don't go? How much could you really love someone if you don't visit their grave one time? Right. That's pretty telling.

And I think it was to detectives. Yeah, I think for most people, they would say that's a problem. Doesn't mean, doesn't prove. No, it doesn't. I mean, there's probably some people who say, well, no, I'd have a problem going to the grave. But I think most people, majority, would go to the grave side. I agree.

There are some people that would say, you know, it's just too hard. Yeah. It's too hard. on me. I'll grieve at home, but to actually be there, it's too hard. But when you add it all together with the fingerprints, the turkey baster, the feeling had to just be so strong that she had something to do with it. So all of this evidence, right, it's mounting, it's starting to point towards Stacey Castor being involved in David's death, it caused investigators to take another look at the death of Stacey's first husband.

One of the things they learned was that Michael Wallace's older sister, she was very suspicious of his death. And she was one of the family members, probably the loudest, that had asked for an autopsy. Early on, yeah. But we said Stacey refused. She wouldn't let it happen. In September of 2007, so like I said, almost two years has gone by. Authorities exhumed Michael's body.

And testing revealed that he too had ethylene glycol in his system. That's the main thing it found in anapheries. So based off of that, they changed the manner of his death from heart attack to homicide. You got that in your system, well, you didn't have a heart attack. He could have had a heart attack. But it wasn't just a plain old bad ticker heart attack. It wasn't the primary cause, yeah. No.

He had this stuff in his system. David Castor had it in his system. Yeah. Not looking too good. I mean, it's a nasty thing, right? I mean, antifreeze. I mean, it's why it is. I think there's a good amount of states that put laws out there to change it.

So it wouldn't have the sweet taste, and they had to put some type of agent in it to make it taste terrible. Horrible. Because, you know, dogs and cats. A lot of dogs have lost, you know, have been killed from lapping up antifreeze off of a garage floor, driveway floor. So I know a lot of them, over the years, a lot of states have made those changes. Yeah. Yeah, they definitely have. But, you know, think about it.

two husbands both have this in their system. Let's call it anaphrase. Right. They changed the manner of death. Now, Stacey Castor was never charged with the death of her first husband, but prosecutors would bring it up at trial because it's huge. Sure it is. In showing that, okay, she has a history here of maybe doing this.

I'm sure they talked to, you know, Michael's family and gave him, reasons behind what they were going to do. I think if... I think they were all for it. Yeah. Because they wanted it back then. Yeah. Whatever you got to do? As long as you get her to prison somehow. Oh, you mean not charging her? Yeah. Yeah. And I didn't really get the particulars around it, but I was kind of thinking that it had happened so long ago that they could theorize all they wanted that Stacey had killed him with antifreeze, but they didn't have any way to prove. Right.

Now, that's not going to be the same in David Caster's right. Right. Right. So, yeah, I think if they could have charged her with that, if they had any evidence, they would have done it. But I think you're right. It lays the track for. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. When you're going to throw it out to a jury that, hey, this is not the first husband that has died this way. I think it's going to be a big deal. They did interview Stacey and, you know, they laid some of the things out that they had against her. But, you know, the biggest thing that came from one of these interviews was that Stacey Caster used the word antifree instead of antifereys. Hmm. It was so unusual.

Yeah. that one of the investigators wrote it down and it would wind up becoming a huge issue down the road. Yeah, it would be. So the thought is by police that, you know, Stacey started to panic. All this happened very quickly. They exhumed Michael's body, found that he had antifreeze in his system. They're interviewing Stacey. She's saying some strange things. She has to know. Right. Gibbs that police are closing in on her. I mean,

let's face it, who wouldn't at that point be suspicious that, you know, police are on to me. They're going to be coming after me. Definitely fill the heat. Yeah. You learn that they've exhumed your first husband,

found the same ingredient that was found in your second husband. It really has to go through your mind. It's just a matter of time at that point. that they're coming to get me. But Stacey Castor, she didn't flee. I think a lot of people maybe would. She didn't do that. She just had to come up with the new plan.

Always thinking, wasn't she? I think Stacey Caster was very conniving. Yeah, manipulative. Manipulative. I think she would have done anything and everything that she could think of to get what she wanted. and or to get out of trouble. Yep.

I definitely think that. It's all about her. And she instituted this new plan on September 13th. She mixed up a cocktail for her daughter, Ashley. And I've seen varying reports of, you know, what was in it. But let's say vodka, juice, soda, and a litany of drugs. Yeah. I mean, this is a cocktail to end all.

Put a little bit of everything in it. Cocktails. You know, I've seen where it had in it, Ambien, Ritalin, morphine, morphine, hydrocodone. Yeah. There's some really strong things depending on how much you put in and on top of alcohol. Because they always tell you that anyway. Right. Don't drink.

Don't take this shit with alcohol. Yeah, mess you up. We're going to lump it all in together. Yeah. She got Ashley to drink this cocktail. Gibbs, she was trying to kill her daughter. Now, at the same time, she typed up a suicide note for Ashley in which, coming from Ashley, she took responsibility for killing both her father, Michael, and her stepfather David.

Wow. So this is Stacy's plan. Yeah. Let me put it on my child. My flesh and blood daughter. The note said that Ashley killed these men because they. were abusive, they were mean to her mom. I mean, I don't know how else to say it.

We're talking about one of the biggest pieces of shit mothers. Yeah. That has ever walked the face of the earth. She just didn't care about her kids or anything. Didn't care about anybody in her life, but herself. No. I mean, you know, she was a monster. She was.

You know, you've killed two husbands. Tried to kill your daughter and blame those murders on her. Yeah. That's how little she thought about her daughter. Mm-hmm. Not only am I going to kill you. I'm going to make you responsible for the things that I've done. Yeah, I think at that point it was just all about self-preservation.

Yeah. And I don't give a you-know-what about what happens to anybody else. I'm looking out for myself. And I'm trying to figure out how not to go to jail. Well, she didn't take long to figure it out. She decided to throw her daughter underneath the bus and kill her really quick. I mean, you know, you're talking about move over Mommy Dearest. Yeah.

Here comes Stacy Castor. There you go. I mean, I think that's what you got. 17 hours later, Stacey Caster called 911 to say that her daughter had tried to end her life. 17 hours later. Really wanted to make sure she gave that medicine, the drugs, time to get into the system, I guess. And again, there are various reports on a lot of these instances. I saw one where it was actually Brie, who found out.

Ashley. Mm-hmm. And maybe that's the only reason why... Picked up and called? The phone call even had to be made then. Yeah. That's believable. If not, I think she would have waited until Ashley was actually dead.

Sure. But Brie came home, walked in, found her sister. And she had an surprise. And like, oh, my gosh, just call 911. I get that. Yeah. But then here's the fake or here's the suicide note. Right.

Yeah. So we got to hand that to the paramedic. to the police and say, hey, you know, got this. I don't know what's going on here, you know, but. I mean, the only good thing about this whole part is that Ashley was rushed to the hospital. She eventually recovered. And I think, you know, it took days. Sure.

It wasn't months, but days. And she recovered. And so the police weren't really buying the fake suicide now. Yeah. You know, when, when they talked to Ashley, she said, she didn't know, anything about it. But she definitely didn't write it. And really, the last thing that she remembered was her mother making her a drink. And that was it. That was all. All she could recall. Yeah. So Stacey Castor was arrested the next day, the day after calling 911.

Sure. They didn't wait, right? Her daughter was still recovering in the hospital. she was charged with second degree murder of David Castor. She was held without bond, which tells you something. Right. This woman is very dangerous. Yeah. Keep her away from the antifreeze. Yep.

Do not let her out. When the details started to emerge, the press dubbed her the black widow, which I think is kind of overused. You get that or you see that in pretty much every case where a woman kills her husband, she's a black widow. You need a new terminology for something like that. Yeah, they could have come up with something better that had to do with Anna Fries or something like that. Something like that.

But that's what they called her, the black widow. Later that month, they charged Stacey with trying to kill her daughter, Ashley. That's good. They should. No, no, they definitely should because she did. I think it helps the other case, too. Each case helps each other. Yeah, they dovetail into each other.

Yeah, depending on what you were allowed to present the time of trial. Yeah. They definitely dovetail into each other. I think even adding on to that after she was arrested, she was charged with falsifying David's will. So apparently she changed his will and she had two of her friends sign affidavits saying, oh, we witnessed David making these changes way back in like 2000. three. Wow. Some piece of shit friends too then, huh? Yeah. To do that. I don't think they ever got charged. I saw their names. I didn't put them in here because it's really not important. She could have made up a big story like, oh, we wrote this will and David told me I needed to get a witness or attested to. I just never did. And this happened. Can you guys sign it? You know, I mean, she could have pity me. You're right. So I don't know. She definitely could have.

But if they knew otherwise, then that's pretty bad of them. Yeah, I think the big thing is it happened after his death. Yeah. And it obviously left everything to her. Sure. So it cut his son from a previous marriage out completely. It cut Ashley and Bree. I don't know what the will was before, but-

Bottom line is, it all went to her. Yeah, it all went to her. That was the big thing. Yeah. The trial of Stacey Castor began in January 2009. So really, when you look at the timeline, we're talking about 4.4. years. It took them two years to build the case to arrest her. And then from there, about a year and a half to get to trial. So the prosecutor, and we're not going to go into the

trial in great detail, but we do have some clips to play that I think are interesting. The prosecution laid out their case that Stacey Castor used the turkey baster to force the antifreeze and to David Castor's system, but she did it systematically over a long four-day weekend. I mean, this was like torturous day after day after day. She murdered him to get her hands on his money. That part was pretty simple, I think, based on the fact that she changed the will, you know, based on the fact that they believed she had killed her previous husband for money. they had a mountain of evidence, right?

They had the fingerprints on the glass. They had David's DNA on the turkey baster, obviously toxicology reports, handwriting analysis and things like that. Pretty solid. Yeah, pretty solid types of evidence. They definitely did introduce the findings from the exhumation of her first husband, Michael. But really, you know, one of the big focuses. of the prosecution's case was the 700-plus word suicide note. Investigators determined that it was written on a computer at the castor home at a time when

Ashley was at school. So, you know, obviously when you get into computer forensics, you can tell things are timestamped. You can tell all that stuff. Right. So wasn't too hard for them to figure out that, hey, she was at school. And to me, that's pretty big. Yeah.

She couldn't have wrote this if she was at school on this computer at that time. No, pretty hard to write something on your home computer when you're at school. Not only that, but they provided evidence showing that Stacey was at home at the time that it was written. So that's... But puts her there. Equally, you know, as damning. They also found a couple of practice notes on the computer. Pretty interesting.

But, you know, a big part of the note centered on one word, antifree. Yeah. You know, I mentioned it. She had said the word in an interview. We're going to play a clip of it here in a minute. Obviously, in the suicide note, it was supposed to have been antifreeze. Yeah. It was misspelled in four different places in this note.

antifrey. Because she's typing it as she says it. Yeah. You know, that's the connection that they're making. Sure. The prosecution brought to the stand, the investigator, who said that Stacey Castor had used the same word in the interview with him years earlier. So make no mistake. If I ever wrote a note like that, they should just hand it to you and you'd be able to tell them pretty quick if I wrote that or not.

Yeah, they don't need a like a handwriting expert. When it comes to you, just give it to me. I'll tell you what Gibby meant. You can decipher it like the guy did for Zodiac this week. We got to talk about that at some point, maybe in the new year. But let's hear this clip from the detective on the stamp. I took this picture of what I got out of my folder, and I showed the Stacey and said I had a question for you. Stacey, regarding these glasses that on top of the nightstand in David's bed, you told us you

that you had gotten there with some cranberry juice and some water. By looking at the photo, would you be able to tell me which glass it was that you brought into David? Stacey leaned into the photo, looking at it, at which time she said, when I poured the antefruit, I mean the cranberry juice. You're confusing me. You're jumping all over the place. At that point, I said, Stacey, I simply asked you one question. I didn't jump all over.

It was just one question if you know which glass it was. at that point, the interview continued. When she said to you, when I poured the anti-free, are you certain it was anti-free and not anti-free with a Z? It was anti-free, absolutely positive. Thank you very much, Detective. I have no more question. So now the defense tried to play this off as her changing her words mid-sentence,

which I think she did. but possibly. But you're also changing it from I poured anti-free or anti-free to cranberry juice. Big difference. It's still very damning. Yeah, just the fact that you said anna-free or anna-free doesn't matter. You just said, I poured and then you try to correct yourself. Yeah.

It's not good. I think it would have been really big to the jury. But the fact that it was anna-free. Yeah. And then in the note four times, it says anaphrie. Very, very strange. Now, you and I get lambasted a lot for our bad grammar. Yeah, especially you.

Especially me. And basically overall lack of knowledge when it comes to the English language in general. Right. But I'm telling you right now, if you're going to kill someone, and I don't advise it, I never do. Never do. But if you're going to kill someone and try to cover it up, you better damn well know how to say whatever it is that you're using.

Sure. You know, when the police question you or whatever. I mean, it's the key thing that anna-freeze does. It keeps things from freezing. So it would be anna-freeze. It would never just be anna-free. It's not like you're saying, you know. Well, then I think, you know, you look at the suicide note.

Yeah. It's not that way one place, two places. Four different places. She's typing as she hears in her head as she says it, and that's why it's coming out that way. Something. Yeah. But there's no doubt they had a ton of evidence, right? Again, Stacey Castor, but it might have been that one thing that sunk her more than anything else, this whole antifree thing.

And again, if you're going to kill somebody using it, you might want to know how it's spelled when you're going to use it in oral written form. I mean, you got the bad spelling. You got the evidence against her just keeps mounting. Yeah. Yeah, they had quite a bit. Ashley Wallace took the stand against her mother. Ashley said that on the afternoon of September 13th, her mother gave her a mixed drink composed of vodka,

orange juice, and spray. Okay. That don't sound, might be good for all I know. But she said it was strange. First of all, her mom didn't normally do something like that. Right. And she kept urging her on. Like, hey, you got to finish this.

Drink this. Drink this up. Yeah. So she felt like that was very strange. So that should always be a red flag for anybody. When someone keeps telling you, drink this, hurry up, hurry up. Yeah. It's probably not good.

You know what's another red flag for me? When somebody says, this tastes awful. Taste this. Yeah. Why do people do it? I don't want. You've already told me that it's horrible. It's like, yeah.

You know, they smell, they're right. It just doesn't, this doesn't smell right. This smells bad. This might be bad for me. Smell it or tasted. Why would I want to do either? There's the trash can, find something else to eat, and leave me out of it. I'm definitely not going to taste it or smell it.

I'm not your guinea pig. So, yeah, so she urged her to drink this. And then the next thing that Ashley knew, she woke up in the hospital in the next day. Yeah. Mother of the Year award. Yeah, Mother of the Year award. But this is something that the prosecution really played up, right? this angle of, okay, you made this drink, your daughter got very, very sick, or almost died,

and this whole 17 hours kind of time period that elapsed. The delay of getting help for it. Yeah. So let's listen to a clip of the prosecutor's exchange with Stacey Castor on the stand. Because she did take the stand. Yeah. And that's interesting that she did. I don't have really a lot on her testimony other than the fact that, you know, she said she didn't do it or the things that you would normally say.

I mean, she definitely thinks she's smarter than the investigators. It's really more of the cross-examination that's interesting. Yeah. So let's hear that. On Thursday, September the 13th, she came home and wanted to take a net. Uh, yes. And that's not unusual for her, right? No.

And what time did she go in to take the nap? Between 1.30 and 2 o'clock, I believe. And the next time that you saw your daughter when she was conscious was when she was being carted out by ambulance attendance on Friday morning. Yes. 17 hours later. Yes. And this is normal, right, Mrs. Castor?

Action, Judge. I'll overrule it. I never said, Ashley. I've just overruled it. This is normal. For Ashley to be in her bedroom for 17 hours, sure it is. Sure it is. Sure it is.

It's normal. And she was drooling, wasn't she? Was she drooling normally? This is Castor? Objection, Judge. I've overruled it. Was she? I don't know.

You saw her drooling, though, didn't you? That was a figure of speech, though. There was a figure of speech. My God, you lost two husbands to poisoning. Your daughter had just learned that her father, was dug out of his grade. You tell her, your boyfriend, and all she's drooling normally in the bedroom.

My God, is this your testimony? That's not what I said. Compelling. He really, uh, oh, man. He gave her the, you know what. And it was interesting because, you know, obviously the, the defense objected and the judge kept overruling. He's like, no, I'm going to give this guy some leeway.

Go ahead and, you know, lay it on. Glad he did. But I did find that very interesting, the fact that, number one, he is screaming at her, but he is really driving it home to the jury, right? 17 hours, 17 hours. Drolling. You even told your boyfriend. I didn't know she had a boyfriend, but.

Yeah, but in that, in that clip, you know, but for him to keep saying those key words, I mean, if you're on the jury and you're hearing, she took 17 hours. hours, drooling. I mean, knowing that exactly what he said, that they just, you know, exhumed her dad. That'd be a concern. Yeah. Right? You should be concerned.

As a parent, and especially if you're a parent on that jury, you have to be thinking. Yeah. So you're not going to go in there and check on her. The only reason you wouldn't be concerned is either you're an idiot or you're waiting for her to die. Yeah, because you, you set it up that way. Yeah. You know, the defense, what could they do? They basically said it was Ashley Wallace, not Stacey Castor who had murdered both Michael

Wallace and David Castor. They tried to convince the jury that Ashley had tried to end her life. And they said that she wrote to suicide note and that further backed up their argument that she had committed the murders. So they hung their hat on that. They were to stick with that story all the way through. Yeah, but like I said, the prosecution was able to punch a number of holes in that with the timing of when it was written, who was home at the time and all that. So the jury of 10 women and two men, which I thought was an interesting makeup.

Sure. And I'm sure that was by design. They deliberated for about 16 hours, over four days before finding Stacey Castor guilty on February. 5th, 2009 of the second degree murder of David Castro. We just had a case here maybe last week where there were deliberations of 45 minutes, an hour. Yeah, really quick ones, yeah. They spent quite a bit of time, 16 hours really tells me they weighed everything, they went through it. And I'm not saying if it's an hour or two hours, they rushed. No, typically, though, the quicker the jury comes back, the more sure they are. Yeah. One of the things,

things that I remember seeing in the research. And it had something to do with the judge's instructions to the jury was that, you know, he said, you know, two things. You have to decide two things. Is Stacey Castor guilty beyond reasonable doubt, which you're always going to have in a murder trial? Yeah. And are you absolutely certain, and I forget the wording he used, but absolutely certain that actually, Wallace didn't do it. Now, to me, those go hand in hand. Yeah, you can't say this one without. Yeah, but that was part of the jury instructions. They also found her guilty of attempted second degree murder of her daughter Ashley. And then they had the witness impact statements.

Oh. So I do want to play a clip of Stacey's daughter Ashley reading out her statement prior to Stacey's sentencing. The biggest question I ask is why? Why did she do these? things. I know that's probably never going to be answered. There are so many things that she has ruined. She'll never be able to see re-graduate. My father will never take me down the aisle. She'll never get to see her grandchildren. All those things she took away from me. She killed two people and tried to kill me and blame it on me and blame me for the other dusts. That bothers me so much. I had to pretend for a year that everything was okay, that nothing was bothering me, even though I was worried about the trial and worried whether the jury would believe me.

I hate my mother for ruining so many people's lives. I'd even know why she did it. What gave her the right to play God with people? And I hate her for having me be the one that found my dad, just like her for having Brie found me. I never knew what hate was until now. Even though I do hate her, I still love her at the same time. that bothers me. It's so confusing.

How can you hate someone and love them at the same time? I just wish that she would say sorry for everything she did, including all the lies. And though I feel bad for her today as she sits there all by herself, she's the one that did this to herself and nothing bothers her. After my mom is sentenced today, I'll go back to my loving home with people who care about. me. She's not going to go home. And if she hadn't chose to do these things, she could be home with me and breathe. She would not have to worry about anything. I've cried enough tears about this and I don't want to cry anymore. I just want it all to go away, but I know it will never go

away. I have to live with this for the rest of my life. Man, what a tough statement to give. Pretty powerful. Yeah, really is. And I think she said a number of things in there that you and I talk, often talk about, right? The victims, the victims' families, the web of how many different people are affected. Now, she was affected directly in a number of different ways. But I understand what she's saying, you know, love and hate at the same time. At same time. And how confusing that would be. You love your mother. Right. But you hate what she did. Yeah. She tried to kill you for crying out She tried to pen your own dad's murder on you and kill you on top of it. Judge Joseph Fahey sentenced Stacey Caster to the maximum of 25 years to life for the murder of David Castro and another 25 years for the attempted murder of her daughter, Ashley.

He then also threw in like one to four years for forging her husband's will. Yeah. But the judge told Caster that he had never seen. a parent willing to sacrifice their child to shift the blame away from themselves. He said, in my 34 years in the criminal justice system as a lawyer and a judge, I've seen serial killers, contract killers, killers of every variety. Yeah. But I have to say, Mrs. Castor, you are in a class all by yourself.

Yeah. And that wasn't a good thing. No, it's not a good class to be in. Stacey Caster was sent off to the Bedford Hills Correctional Facility for Women in Westchester County, New York to serve out her sentence, which would be at a minimum 51 years. Right. 25, 25, and then the one. Yeah. So that would be the minimum that she would serve.

But she really didn't serve all that much of her sentence. She didn't. No. Stacey Caster died on June 11, 2016, in prison at the age of. of 48. Yeah. They said natural causes. I saw where they were going to do an autopsy.

I never really saw the results of it. Yeah. Maybe she drinks something not good in prison. Yeah. Yeah. Someone served her something. I don't know. I felt like if she was going to do it, maybe she would have done it much earlier.

Yeah. Then she did. But who knows? You never know what people were thinking. In 2016, the New York Supreme Court ruled that the family of David could move his body to another cemetery. They also said his current headstone could be destroyed. And apparently the headstone read, husband of Stacey R.

You know, family members didn't like the fact that she was going to be buried next to him. Right. This is something that I waited to talk about because it's so interesting, right? Stacey had David buried next to her first husband. Oh. And then she had a plot right next to them as well. And so David, David's family was like,

hell no. We ain't going to do that. But they had to go all the way to the New York State Supreme Court. To get the permission to move a body. Yeah. To be able to move him. So I guess this woman just bought up a bunch of plots, right, with the thought of, I'm going to need them at some point.

Keep burying them around the same area. Yeah. But because there was somebody else buried there as well. Yeah. And it was Stacey's father, Jerry Daniels. In 2002, Jerry Daniels was hospitalized with a lung ailment. And, you know, the family thought he was doing pretty good. Yeah.

He was getting better, but he died. So the family was very suspicious. They didn't know what happened, but they said Stacey. had visited him and brought with her an already opened can of soda for him to drink. There you go. The next day he died. And then she had his remains cremated very quickly. To get rid of any evidence.

And she became the executive of his estate. So really, I think this woman killed three people. Yeah. It makes you wonder when she first did that. Did she do something before that too? Who knows? Yeah. Who knows. These are the three that we know about, and she was only prosecuted for one murder.

Because you did something like that. If that's your mindset, you get your feet wet with it, and you're like, oh, it works that easy. That's how you do it. Nobody will ever know. Nobody will know. You get away with it once. And you're like, I'll do it again. Oh, I got away with it again and do it again, right?

If that's your mindset, you're that terrible person that would do something like that. Yeah. I really think that she might have killed her dad as well. So Gibbs, as we wrap up this case, right? No doubt that Stacey Castor was a horrible human being. Yeah.

Wife. Mother. I think she was just horrible all around. Yeah. She murdered two husbands for money. And then, you know, like we talked about,

when the net was closing in on her. Yeah. For the murder of her second husband, she was willing literally to sacrifice her daughter. Yeah. That easy. Didn't have to give it much thought, did she?

No, because it, you know, it wasn't like she said around for six months thinking about it. You know, from the time of the exhumation of her first husband. Yeah. It was all in the same month. Within weeks. Very quick. She was interviewed. She tried to kill her daughter and pin the murders on her.

Mothers everywhere have to be cringing, right? at this at this story at the thought of what this woman did and you think about how she did it killing her second husband like i said over like this extended four-day weekend yeah it wasn't like you know she shot him in the head she sat there with the turkey baster putting it in there over four days until she until he died and that is some seven like type shit man you know remember remember when in that movie, he kept that guy alive for like a year. Yeah. Wasn't, you know.

No. This wasn't mad. But, you know, it's kind of macab. It's kind of very brutal. That was extremely brutal to the point where he had to have all those like little Christmas tree air fresheners. Yeah. Because the smell was so bad.

It was so bad. Yeah, I don't know. And then, you know, her daughter, the 17 hours. Yeah. Bad enough that you could ever harm. you know, your son or your daughter. But for them to languish or for 17 hours, the whole time you know. Sure.

They're either dying or in serious trouble. You know exactly what you do. And you're sitting there watching Guiding Light for all I know. Yeah. Whatever. Just waiting for her to finally pass. Yeah, very brutal. Yeah.

I never found any information on exactly how she killed her first husband. And I don't really think there's any way that. that they could figure it out. Obviously, they know Anaphrase was involved. Maybe she used the same method. Maybe she used the turkey based or I have no idea. Could have. I don't think there's any way for them to figure it out, though.

I think what we do know is that this woman was evil. Big time evil, yes. Big time evil. I know me personally, I'm going to be extra nice to my wife. You should be. She does have a lot of control over what goes in. to my body. She does.

So, you know, I want to make sure none of my sodas are opened. The seals aren't broken. Yeah. I don't know how to check my food, though. Well, what you do is you have her make you both a plate. When she sits down, you switch them. But now that she heard us talk about this on the podcast, if she hears this, then she'll know that she needs to re-switch the plates. Like Princess Brett.

Yeah. Luckily, I don't think she's evil. and I believe she still loves me. Yeah. So she has to put up with you. I know. Yeah. It's a lot.

So I've got that going for me. Right. But I guess, you know, for me, when we do these types of stories, how can people not at least have like a fleeting thought in their head? Could a loved one do this to me? Could it really happen? Sure could. Because this is not our first time we covered a story. No, no.

There's a bunch. About. And I saw a bunch of other. other ones too while I was researching this. Sure. Yeah. There have been a lot of women who poisoned their husbands. You know, a husband kills a wife, a wife kills a husband. But then I think you have to quickly wipe that away, right? The thought has to be, yeah, no way. Not my wife, not my husband. They love me. Yeah. They're not like these people that Ferg and Gibby are talking about on the podcast. Or are they? That's why I put tamper proof.

tape on all my stuff at home. Granted, I live by myself. But still, it's a good practice to get into, right? You know, I'm like, okay. Because you might sleepwalk and try to poison yourself for all we know. So I put that tamper-proof tape on everything.

That's pretty fun. Yeah. But in interesting case, there were some different facets to it that I found, you know, pretty compelling. So that's it for our episode on Dacey Caster. again, just a horrible, horrible excuse for a human being. That's it for another episode of true crime all the time.

So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.