True Crime All The Time - Stephen Allwine

Episode Date: May 13, 2024

Stephen Allwine had a normal, seemingly happy life. He was married, had a son, and was an elder at his local church. In 2016, the FBI became aware of a contract to kill his wife, Amy. The Allwines were warned and encouraged to increase their home security. Amy was killed months later. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss Stephen Allwine. Despite being a church elder who counseled others in the church, Stephen was having multiple affairs. He quickly rose to the top of the suspect list. The police soon discovered a tangled web of lies that involved the dark web, a hitman organization, and the use of bitcoin.You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 383 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime. Mike Gibson. How are you? Hey, I'm doing good. How about you, man? I'm doing really well. I've had a great week until today.

Until today. I have a loose cricket in my basement in the studio. Yeah. And I'm worried that there's going to be some noises in the background. You know, my daughter has these geckos. Right. And somehow when she goes to get crickets, these crickets get loose. Well, we can name them Jiminy.

We could. We can pick up the guitar, start strumming it. To scare him off. Maybe, or maybe he'll come on over and want to sing with us. And then you keep him busy while I put the cup over him. Okay. Well, I haven't heard him in a while. So hopefully he's gone on to somewhere else.

But let's go ahead and give him. our Patreon shoutouts, we had Rodney. Hey, Rodney. Stephanie Leopold. What's going on, Stephanie? Rama Johnson. Oh, thanks, Rama. Erica S. Hey, Erica. Wiler. Wiler. Okay. Lindsay Clark. Hey, Lindsay. Aaron Manning. Oh, what's going on? Peyton, sister, cousin, somebody related to Peyton Manning. You know, there's some other famous Manning's too. Yeah, his brother. He's got a brother. Uh, Jeff. What's going on, Jess? Donnell Stacy.

Well, thanks, Don't think I'm letting it slip that you said cousin. I can't. With AT. We had Deborah Watts. Well, thanks, Deborah. And last but not least, Sage. Sage, I like that. Yeah, and then if we go back into the vault,

this week we selected Cassandra Rupert. Hey, thanks, Cassandra. We also had a great PayPal donation on behalf of Theo and Christopher. The Greek boys. Oh, the Greek boys, man. I love that Greek Tiziki. You like that, huh? Yeah, you ever had that Tiziki?

Is that the little sauce? Yeah, a little, like, you know, I don't know, cucumber. Cucumber, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I like Mediterranean-type food. You know that. Oh, yeah. Olives, that's my favorite, any type of different meats and cheeses.

I do like those. Yeah. I've had those a number of times. Good stuff. So we appreciate all the support. We do. Gives, we have an episode out right now on true crime all the time unsolved where we're talking about Rebecca Coriam.

She was a 24 year old British woman who was working on a Disney crew ship. And she disappeared from the ship in March 2011. So there are a lot of theories about what happened to Rebecca. We'll go through all those in the episode from, you know, her being swept overboard to, to her being pushed overboard after some type of horrible event. And there's some video on the ship, too, to talk about. Always makes me nervous because lately you see quite a few stories around people falling off cruise ships or not sure how it happened, but they're missing.

It makes me a little nervous about ever going on a cruise. You just went on one. Yeah, just went on one. But if you think about it, you are out in the middle of an ocean. Yeah. And granted, I'm assuming, especially today, there are cameras everywhere. So I don't know how you could get away with a whole lot, but, you know, if you, if you were

standing next to somebody, you're on the balcony, it's not like all of those railings are so tall that you couldn't push somebody overboard. You definitely could. At least on the ones I've been on. I just have that fear of being an open water by myself. You should. I don't think anybody should take that lightly. Yeah.

Yeah. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time? I am ready. We're talking about Stephen Allwine. Stephen had a normal, seemingly happy life. He was married, had a son. He was even an elder at his local church. In 2016, the FBI became aware.

of a contract to kill his wife, Amy. All wines were worn and encouraged to increase their home security. But Amy was killed months later. And as often happens in these types of cases, you know the investigators are going to look at the husband. But I would just want to take a minute to kind of talk about what that would be like. You're reached out to buy the FBI. And they're saying, hey, we've got some information.

that there's a contract on your wife's life. Okay. Increasing my home security, that's a given. For sure. There's going to have to be at least more than that. I would think the FBI might even say, let's have a park a car outside or something, right? Yeah, I don't know, you know,

how they make those decisions, but that would be scary, no doubt about it. Stephen and Amy Allwine married in either 1996 or 1998. And this happens a lot, but we had two different sources that reported this information. 48 hours had one year and State versus Allwine had another. You wouldn't think that would happen, but it happens quite a bit. Oh, so many times. Both Stephen and Amy were 43 years old when Amy was killed.

The All Wines lived in Cottage Grove, Minnesota, a suburb of Minneapolis. Stephen was a freelance IT expert and worked from home. Amy ran a dog training business on their property. Well, you know, that's a good business. Got to train those dogs, right? Well, it's also kind of cool that they both were able to kind of work at home. If that works out, right? Sometimes people can't work together.

Well, when you say work together, you mean work even separately, but be home at the same time? In the same space, 24-7. Yeah. I do remember during the kind of the height of COVID when my wife was home, she was teaching, but remotely. And obviously, I was working from home as I have for a number of years. It was a little different. Yeah. Let's put it that way.

I'll use a euphemism. Yeah, just leave it at that, right? There is something about, you know, being with someone essentially 24 hours a day, every day. Now, maybe for some couples, that's great. They love it. Others need just a little bit of a break. Yeah. Just a little separation.

Yes. And then when you do see that person, you're like, oh, I haven't seen you in eight hours because I've been at work or you've been at work. And, you know, that kind of makes, that keeps the marriage. fresh. It's been the next half an hour together and then we'll go a separate ways now. Again, yeah. Stephen and Amy adopted a son named Joseph who was nine years old when his mother was killed. According to 48 hours, the all wines had a quote quintessentially American life.

And this is not unusual. We talk about people quite a bit who, and I always say, you know, you're looking at it from the street level. right into the home and you would say all these people got the perfect life you know they got the great house they've got some money they've got a great marriage they seem to be doing wonderfully but is that really the case because you know from the outside looking in you don't know what's going on inside someone's house there's just no way for you to know it no way man because i i I lived that neighbor that used to live across me. Oh, the one that killed someone?

Killed his wife and a kid. Yeah. And you would have thought, oh, it's a great guy. Oh, they acted like they were the perfect family. They were so happy. Yeah, and then to find out, no, not the story. Stephen and Amy were members of the local branch of the United Church of God. Stephen was a church elder.

He gave sermons and counseling to members of the congregation. The United Church of God does not condone infidelity or divorce, according to state versus all one. The United Church of God website states, even if couples have a short courtship, fail to counsel before marrying, or have dysfunctional backgrounds, none of these recognized troubles justify the later putting away of, and in parentheses it says divorcing, a mate with the freedom to remarry. Marriage is a commitment for life. failure to plan properly is not grounds for the future dissolving of a marriage. I think there's a few churches that follow that way of thinking. Yes. Yeah.

No, I agree with you. Now, we know that for some people, you know, there comes a point where they just realize they can't function together. They can't live together. They can't overcome their differences or whatever it is. But if you belong to this church, okay, what do you do? You're either leaving the church or you're staying in a marriage that could be potentially toxic. Yeah, either one of you or both of you are unhappy being in.

If a church elder is caught committing adultery, they lose their position and may be asked to leave the church. And this is important because Stephen had at least three affairs, starting in 2014. Well, look, if you're going to be a church elder leader and part of your rules is that you are not allowed to have affairs, can't get divorce, if you're a leader, you need a lead by example. So that's a problem, right? I mean, do I believe that you can't get divorced? No, I think if you want divorce, you get divorced. But for that church and for what he was doing, you lead by example. So you shouldn't be having affairs, you know, if you're going to be a leader.

Well, it's obviously very hypocritical. Sure. Right. We mentioned it. Here's a guy who's giving sermons. He's counseling other members. And I'm sure a lot of that was, you know, don't have affairs, don't commit adultery, all this. Well, at the same time, he's out flandering.

Doing what he's telling them not to do. In early 2016, a contract was taken out on Amy Allwine's life. Once the police became aware of the plot, it took months to prove who was behind the contract. In February 2016, a person with the username Dog Day God visited BASA Mafia, a site on the dark web advertising hired hits. Besa Mafia claimed to be affiliated with Albanian organized crime, according to the Washington Post. That Albania organized crime. Tough guys. Well, let's talk about the dark web.

Yeah. Have you ever been on the dark web? Now, you know I can't answer that. Well, that's true. I can say I have not. What I will say is I have thought about it. Because you kind of see it in movies and you have this fascination of what's on there. Yeah.

And, but I've always been scared because I think, you know, you have, I'm sure, all these hackers on there. And that's a frightening thought that they would somehow get control my computer. But I think the bigger fear is that I would accidentally stumble into some site that would be illegal. And obviously, I would not want that to happen. I'll tell you what, at the next break, I'm going to set my laptop right here while I'm gone. click on the little tiny little black box in the corner and browse browse so that you have plausible deniability as they would say exactly okay are you going to put in your government

clearance for me to really it's there already oh it's i have the software that just automatically i got everything okay yeah but you know it is a real thing this dark web i kind of thought when i first heard it years ago i thought people were just kind of making you know that up. What do you think was this a website that had a dark background? I had no idea what it really was, but, you know, over the years, obviously, it's been proven that it's real and you can hire hitmen. You can view all kinds of legal pornography. You can buy drugs. You can do things that you can't do and shouldn't be able to do anyway, but can't do on the regular internet. Very bad people out there. Yeah. But you know who else is out there?

Some very good people acting. Kate Crusaders like yourself. Dog Day God messaged a user by the name of Uria on the Baysa Mafia site. Dog Day God wanted Amy killed in a car crash that was supposed to look like an accident. Dog Day God told Baza Mafia that Amy, quote, tore my family apart by sleeping with my husband and is stealing clients from my business, per the Washington Post. So I think when you hear that quote of what this person, Dog Day God, wrote, that leads you to believe that Dog Day God is a woman.

Yeah, that's what most people would make that conclusion. Dog Day God sent a second message to Basa Mafia, requesting that Amy be killed while she was at a dog training convention in Moline, Illinois, which is right next to Moline, Illinois, which I know you're very familiar with. I'm familiar with everything and every place in Illinois. Yeah. Yes. And that's one of your favorite states.

48 hours published the following messages. Dog Day God wrote, I'm looking to hire you for a hit. Uria replied, we can plan the hit. hit when you're traveling outside the city for a day or two. This makes everyone know you could not be the murderer. Okay. I don't want to give people like this credit, but you know, that's smart. Good alibi.

Right. That's a good alibi. It doesn't mean you couldn't have arranged for something, but it does mean that you couldn't have pulled the trigger or done the deed yourself. Exactly. Dog day God wrote, the target will be trawerect. traveling out of town to Moline, Illinois. What is the price in Bitcoin for a hit and ideally making it look like an accident? Your wrote back, normal killing by gunshot is $5,000.

Killing to make it look like accident is $5,000 plus max $4,000. Okay. That does not seem like a lot of money. It really doesn't. It sounds like for a hit. Okay. It's not too bad. of a price. Now, I am not admittedly familiar with Bitcoin, but my understanding is that Bitcoin is what kind of makes the dark web run because it's not as traceable, I guess, or something like, you're not putting in your credit card. Right, right. Right. Right. It's more, more, uh, harder to track down. I don't own any Bitcoin. I've never bought any. So I really don't know how all that works. Well, I own some, but I bought it the wrong way. I typed in coin bit. And so I own some coin bit. Which is worth nothing. Exactly. Yeah. So. Dog Day God gave Basa Mafia, the address of Amy's

hotel, a description of Amy in her vehicle, and a photo of Amy. Dog Day God paid Basa Mafia with Bitcoin. Originally, Basin Mafia asked for $6,000 in Bitcoin at one point claiming that the hitman had been arrested and the price increased to $12,000 worth the Bitcoin. It's a pretty good way to get some more money. I mean, if it didn't really happen that way, right? Well, the guy hired for you. Got your money, but he got arrested. So if you want this done, you're going to have to pay another six so I can make it happen for you. be honest, if you're on the dark web negotiating with a hitman or an organization that will do a hit, I don't know that it's always going to be a real reputable interaction. Well, that's true.

You know, I mean, you're going to get taken for a ride, I would think, because how are they going to come back? What are they going to do? Call the police and say, hey, I'm trying to get taken for a ride. I would think. I would think. I'm going to get this hit put out of my wife. But he's extorting me for more money. This guy's extorting me. He's like, in for a pinch, in for a pound. I think it's penny. Oh.

But we'll go with pinch. Prosecutor Jamie Krauser told 48 hours that dog day God use Bitcoin because Bitcoin is untraceable. Because when you use Bitcoin, it's done through what is called a wallet. So it makes a lot of sense, right? why that's the preferred currency on the dark web. Sure. If you're buying drugs,

if you're buying things that are illegal, if you're arranging hits, obviously you're paying somebody, but you don't want to be traced. And the more that I'm learning about this dark web, the more I know I'll never go on it. Because it sounds scary as all get out. Dog Day God's messages became more impatient as time passed.

For example, on March, 20th, 2016, Dog Day God wrote, I want her gone. I need her gone. Okay, just break down those two little snippet. Yeah. There's some urgency there. Sure is. I want her gone. Okay, that's one thing. I need her gone. Well, there's a, that's a different level of urgency. At one point, Dog Day God said, I need this bitch dead. So please help me. Really begging at this point. Pleading. In May 2016, the FBI discovered the base of mafia website after a hacker published the customer list.

The FBI discovered dozens of requests for contract killings all over the world, including the hit on Amy All One. And you know, you hear the word hacker. You kind of think of somebody doing something bad. Yeah. But that's not always the case. No, sometimes they do good things. Yeah.

The FBI went to the Cottage Grove Police with this information. Detective Terry Raymond met with Stephen and Amy on May 31st, 2016. Detective Raymond told 48 hours that the FBI did not tell him about Baysa Mafia or the user Dog Day God. All they said was that the murder was ordered on the dark web. Amy was shocked by this news, but she was able to provide. a list of people who could potentially have a motive to kill her. There was no evidence of the Dog Day account on any of their devices. Still a little freaky, right?

If the FBI comes to your door and tells you that there's a hit on your life, can you provide me a list of people that might want you dead? Like, how hard would that be for you to produce that list? For me? Yeah. Not as hard as it would be for you. Oh, I have the run. You'd have to take a week off.

just to compile that list. Yeah. I mean, because you're talking internationally and all the things you've done around the world, you know, I'm pretty confined here in the state of Ohio. Yeah. That's true.

And you don't make a lot of enemies from your basement. Very true. But in all seriousness, you know, you can imagine sitting on the couch in your living room, husband and wife, with the FBI learning that there's a hit out on the wife's life. I mean, you know, how do you, number one, process that?

And then what do you do or what steps do you take moving forward? The police advise Stephen and Amy to increase their home security. Like I said earlier, that would be a given, right? It's like minimum, right? Minimum. if you don't already have good home security, well, you better get it. Yep.

Might want to get a German Shepherd or Rottweiler and some other dog. Not a towawa? No. Although there could be a good alert dog. That's good. That's true. They installed a video surveillance system and obtained a permit for a 9mm handgun. Over the next few weeks, Amy received anonymous emails.

telling her to end her life. Emails came from a person identifying themselves as Jane. Jane accused Amy of stealing her husband. Emails contained details that suggested she was under surveillance. See, that's weird to me to get a message from somebody saying, you're a piece of shit, you need to end your life. You've stolen my husband. Like, am I going to react?

Like, okay, you're right. Well, obviously, Amy knows. whether or not she's done this. Right. But here again, you know, we also have what seems to be evidence that all of this is coming from a woman, now identifying herself as Jane. Yeah. Very scorn.

Vice published an excerpt of an email that said, commit suicide. If you do not, then you will slowly see things taken away from you. And each time you will know, that you could have stopped it, which will eat you apart from the inside. And that is horrible. It is. To tell someone to do that. I understand there are people who make that decision to end their life.

But no one should ever be told to do that, especially in a bullying sort of way. Yeah, I mean, they're trying to dictate how you should do things. And if you don't, bad things are going to happen to. That's right. In July 2016, Amy was sent another death threat via email. It said per 48 hours, Amy, I still blame me for my life falling apart. Here's what's going to happen. I will come after everything else that you love.

Here's how you can save your family. Commit suicide. So why not do it now and save them? I think your anxiety would really increase at this point. Oh, through the roof. I think you'd have trouble sleeping, all of that. But what I really want to break down here is that, you know, in these two emails, yes, the person is saying bad things are going to happen to you. But they're not saying that they're going to kill Amy.

They are wanting her to end her life herself. They're going to try to keep pushing on her until she does what they want her to do. Now, this email only increased Amy's worries because now she feared for her son's safety. The sender managed to anonymize their email, making it untraceable. Still, the FBI started an investigation. Stephen and Amy's coworkers were interviewed and two laptops were searched, but there really were no leads. Amy Allwine was murdered on November 13, 2016. So this was just a matter of months after she received that second email.

I'm just trying to figure out how their coworkers seen this and thought about this. Well, I'm sure they had to be worried for Amy, but I think at the same time, there was probably some self-preservation worries, right? They would have known that they didn't send the emails, but I think anytime you're being looked at by any agency. And maybe especially the FBI, you're going to be a little concerned. Stephen got up just before 6 a.m. that morning and went to his office in the basement to get some work done. Around 12 p.m. Stephen went upstairs to have lunch with Amy and their son.

After lunch, Amy told Stephen she felt dizzy and lightheaded and was going to rest in bed. Amy searched for symptoms of vertico on the day she died. And this is a little scary to me because I think I mentioned it to you. I have been having some of this off and on. Right. I had it kind of pretty bad for a week or two. And then it went away for a while. And now recently it's come back.

It's like whenever I stand up, get out of bed or when I lay down, I'm having this room spinning feeling. According to All Wine versus State, Stephen's last employment action occurred at 1251. p.m. At 1 p.m., Amy's father arrived at the house to finish a home project he started a few days earlier. Stephen told him Amy was in bed because she wasn't feeling well. Amy's dad didn't see her the whole time. He was in the house. He left at 2 p.m. But Stephen called minutes later and asked him to come back to pick up Joseph so he could take Amy to a clinic. Amy's dad returned to the house and picked up Joseph, Stephen and Amy were alone in the house. So nothing too bizarre, right?

We've all been there, you know, when we've asked our mother-in-law, father-in-law, somebody to come over and help out. Yeah. And I think, you know, on the part of Amy's dad, he probably wouldn't have thought that this was weird at all. You know, all right. My daughter's not feeling well. She's laying down in the bed.

I'm not going to go up and bother her. I'm just going to, you know, do my project and. Yeah. And leave. Let her sleep. And then you get a call saying, okay, she's obviously still not feeling well. Stephen wants to take her to the clinic, so I'll come back and pick up Joseph. All that seems very normal.

At 5.30 p.m., Stephen came to his father-in-law's house to pick up Joseph. Amy's dad asked about her diagnosis at the clinic. Stephen said Amy changed her mind and decided not to go. Stephen and Joseph got home at approximately 6.52 p.m. Joseph found Amy on the floor with a pool of blood around her head. He called 911 at approximately 7 p.m. During the call, he told the dispatcher, I think my wife shot herself. There's blood all over. According to 48 hours, Joseph asked during the call, why did she shoot herself? He also asked his dad, are you going to remarry? Stephen, said, I don't know, bud, followed by a chuckle.

That's really weird. That is so bizarre. Now, you know, a young kid probably in shock asking questions. Is that abnormal? No. Kids ask a lot of questions in all kinds of different circumstances. The are you going to remarry question is a little strength. But the response is even more strength.

You know, I don't know is the right answer. But who's chuckling, laughing during a 911 call after they have found their wife dead? Yeah, it's so strange. And I don't even know if I would answer, I don't know. I think at that moment, you're just like, no, you know, I mean, it's like, my wife is here bleeding, dying. I'm not even have the mindset to answer that question. Officers entered the primary bedroom and found, Amy face up on the floor. Her body was still warm. Her pants were unbuttoned and unzipped,

and her hands were at her side. A handgun lay on her left four. Amy had a gunshot wound to the right side of her head. And I'm no expert, but, and I'm sure it's something that, you know, we'll talk about later on, but it did seem strange to me. It jumped out that if she shot herself in the right side of her head. The gun would end up on her left forearm. Now could it fall down and tumble that way? Yes, I get it. It could happen.

But there was something in the back of my mind that just thought, well, that's a little strange. According to the Twin Cities Pioneer Press, there were no powder burns on her head, which suggested the gun wasn't against her head when it was fired. There was also no blood spatter or gunpowder on her hands. And all of those things, to me, are really bad signs pointing away from Amy Allwine shooting herself. You know, how do you have no gunpowder, no blood spatter on your hands?

And we've talked about it in many episodes, right? The powder burns kind of denoting a contact wound. Well, how many people would shoot themselves in the head holding the gun is at full arm's length reach. Very unlikely. Very unlikely. Captain Randy McAllister noticed the smell of a pumpkin roasting in the oven when he entered the house. He thought this was strange and questioned why Amy would start roasting a pumpkin before

shooting herself. And those are questions that, you know, we've asked before. You know, there are things in certain stories where it's debated whether someone took their life or someone murdered them. And they did kind of all of these different things before they died. And some of it did seem strange doing the laundry, folding the laundry. Cooking dinner. Cooking dinner or whatever it is. If this plan was in your head, it was also noted that it was on that the pistol was in the crook. of Amy's left arm, she was right-handed.

And it goes back to that thought that I had. If you did that test a hundred times, my thought is the majority of the time that guns are going to end up on the right side. Yeah, I completely agree. It's going to be more rare for that to happen. I would think so. Now, we're not forensic experts,

but that just seems like, you know, common sense to me. Captain McAllister noted satellite blow, blood drips that were outside the pool of blood in the bedroom. This meant that at some point, Amy's head was suspended above the blood drops. This suggested someone might have moved her to the bedroom where she was found. And you know, all of this stuff is fascinating to me.

When you get into some of the forensic type stuff and what it can tell, investigating. And I just think Gibbs that there are a lot of people out there committing crimes that don't have an understanding of this type of stuff. And they think that they can get away with something and that all of these different types of forensic evidence is not going to prove them wrong. Yeah. For sure, there's people out there that think they're smarter than the system. Yeah. Well, and there's a lot of people that don't watch the CSIs and those types of shows or listen to podcasts or.

or whatever it is, Stephen agreed to go to the station for questioning. He said he last saw Amy at 529 when he left to go pick up their son. The police noticed that Stephen was called, despite the fact that he just found his wife's body. His tears seemed fake. Additionally, he had gunshot residue on his right hand. And to me, that's never good. If there were two people in the house, one of them has gunshot residue. to do on their hand and the other one doesn't. Pretty hard to think that the one that doesn't

was the one that pulled the trigger. It's almost like a tall telltale sign. Is that similar to a telltale sign? Very close to it. But it's more direct and less believable because it's a tall tail. I think the problem that the police had though was that there really was no obvious motive for Stephen to kill Amy. Stephen and Amy's son, Joseph was questioned. He said his mom wasn't feeling well, so his dad took her to a clinic. They went to a restaurant after his dad picked him up from his grandparents' house when they got home.

He saw his mom on the floor and asked why she was asleep. Stephen told him, she's probably dead and called 911. Yeah, she's probably dead. Did you imagine saying that to your son? Well, I don't know how he. said it. Now, granted, she was laying in a pool of blood. Sure. So I think that assessment would have been correct. But it's a strange thing I think to say to your son. I think so too. I think he'd like try to shelter. Shield him at that point. Yeah. Scientists from the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal

Apprehension arrived at the All Wine Residence to analyze the crime scene. Investigators spray luminal and found bloody footprints going back and forth to the mudroom and the bathroom on the main floor. The footprints also went into Joseph's bedroom. It appeared that there had been some type of cleanup. Almost kind of wish that they had like CCTV or whatever up when they're doing their investigation and like put the potential suspect in a room like let them see like all this happening and it'd be like, oh, shit, I didn't know they could do that.

Yeah, they got me. I better go ahead and confess. Forensic experts and the medical examiner concluded that Amy's position on the floor and the blood patterns on her face were inconsistent with suicide. And I think, yeah, there seemed to be a lot of things that pointed to the fact that she did not end her life. When the police checked the couple's security system, they saw that the cameras did not record anyone coming or going from the house during the relevant time frame besides Stephen and the police. It's a big problem. Well, I think at the very least, it rules out anyone else coming in, right, and killing Amy.

Amy's autopsy was performed on November 14. The medical examiner agreed that Amy died around 315. p.m. or earlier on November 13th. The evidence was more consistent with homicide than suicide. Amy had what was described as an enormous amount of scopolamine in her system about 45 times higher concentration than a therapeutic dose. And this is not, you know, a medication that I was familiar with. I had to look it up. Skopulamine, if I'm even, even saying it correctly, is an anti-nazia drug that can have some pretty serious side effects. According to the criminal complaint, scopolamine is known to erase a person's memory,

rendering them incapable of exercising their free will. The drug is made into an odorless and tasteless powder that quickly dissolves in liquids and is commonly put into drinks or sprinkled on food. It's like something you need to be really careful taking. Yeah, I mean, obviously in prescribed doses or over-the-counter doses, I don't know how this thing is sold, but in whatever dose you're supposed to take it, I'm sure it works to, you know, stave off nausea. But if you take 45 times more than you're supposed to or you're given 45 times more than you're supposed to take, it can apparently erase a person's memory.

Wow. So what does that make you think? Could someone have been trying to get Amy to shoot herself in the head while she was on the effects of this drug? Maybe it didn't work exactly the way they thought it would, but I can see, you know, a theory where that was someone's attempt. And it sounds like the drug pretty much and keeps you from doing anything. Like you lose your ability to fight back if you lose your free will.

Investigators found Stevens computer equipment in his basement office. Over 60 devices were seized and taken to a computer forensic expert. Okay, my first question is, who in the hell has 60 different devices? That's a lot. I feel like I have a lot of electronics. I'm kind of an electronics person. Right. I don't think I have 60 different devices.

Quickly, you can look around here and probably come up with 20. Yeah. You know? I don't know what's behind that door because you never allow me to go through that door. Nobody's allowed through that door. But it sounds like there's something back there because I hear a lot of, you know, that low hum noise. Like, yeah, yeah. And there's like, I mean, you can see, you can't deny it.

There is like a strange light coming underneath the door crack. That's all you need to know. Investigators discovered that Stephen was visiting a website called Ashley Madison. Ashley Madison is a site for married people looking to have affairs. It made headlines in 2015 after the client list was leaked, which exposed the names of rich and powerful people in the U.S. Wouldn't you hate if you're a real name and real name and the world world was Ashley Madison.

Like everywhere you go, people would be like, hey, are you that Ashley? Connae homewrecker. That's right. According to prosecutor Jamie Cruiser, Stephen dated at least three women. By the internet, the relationships range from one date

to a prolonged sexual relationship. And let's, you know, keep in mind he's married during this period of time. And he was a church elder. Exactly. Not supposed to commit adultery or anything like that. Not that anybody is, but I think what this showed to investigators was that Stephen no longer wanted to be married to Amy and provided them a potential motive for murder. Pretty good motive. Captain Randy McAllister said Stephen was not an official suspect until December 12, 2016. In March 2016,

Stephen filed a police report, claiming that someone stole $6,000 worth of Bitcoin from him. Investigators found a 34-digit Bitcoin wallet code on Stephen's computer. This same code was used by Dog Day God to pay for Amy's murder on the dark web. Okay, that seems like some pretty good evidence to me. Pretty rock-solid to me. Tying Stephen to the murder. and it really did effectively prove that Stephen was Dog Day God. Upon further inspection of Stephen's dark web internet activity,

investigators learn that Dog Day God purchase scopolamine on the dark web. Right. Also very damning. You know, for the dark web thing to work. Kind of needs to be anonymous. Yeah. Yeah. You can't file police report.

on the Bitcoin that you got beat out of because it defeats the purpose. Well, didn't we say earlier what kind of numb nuts is going to engage in criminal activity and then, you know, file a report? I think we found that numn nuts. Once they get scammed out of $6,000 or whatever it is worth of Bitcoin. And why would you keep your little Bitcoin code where somebody could find it down the road? why even keep the computer, you know, device that you used? Yeah.

You know, it's hard to explain, right? Why some people do the things they do or don't do, some of the things that you think they would do. A lot of the times, I just think it's because they believe in their minds. They're smart enough to get away with this. So there's no reason to get rid of anything because the police are going to believe me. They're not going to come and seize all of my electronics. They're not going to search it.

Prosecutors theorized that Stephen was frustrated after waiting nine months for Amy to be killed. So he drugged her and then shot her with the gun. That was supposed to be used for personal protection. Stephen Allwine was arrested in charge with second degree murder on January 17, 2017. And I think the prosecutor. theory is a pretty good one. You know, with everything that we've kind of laid out, he tried to get someone to kill his wife.

It didn't happen. It sounds to me like they effectively stole his $6,000. Right. Didn't find someone to murder his wife. Nine months goes by and he says, I guess I'm going to have to do it myself. Yeah. And he comes up with this. What really is.

kind of a ham-handed story, um, setup turns out to be. Yeah, like he didn't really think it all the way through. But I don't, uh, I don't like the fact that, uh, you know, they, uh, charge him with second degree. I feel like he should have got, uh, charged with first degree. Yeah. I mean, it did seem strange. He was released after posting his half a million dollar bail, but was arrested again after he tried to contact his son and track him with a, smart watch. Stevens' charge was upgraded to first-degree murder after a grand jury indicted him in March 2017. All right. Now we're on track. And that does make sense. Stevens defense attorney Kevin DeVore argued that investigators had tunnel vision and ignored other possibilities.

DeVore told 48 hours. They would ask jurors to believe the device named S. Allwind iPhone, which uploaded incriminating evidence to Stephen's computer was not actually Stephen's iPhone. DeVore said there were women in Amy's life that had access to her home internet, including her friend and colleagues. It was a woman or someone claiming to be a woman who tried to get Amy to kill herself before she was murdered. The woman was angry with Amy for allegedly having an affair with her husband. So this all goes back to, you know, what we talked about.

It does seem like there either was really someone angry with Amy, a woman, or that someone was pretending to be a woman to throw police off the trail. However, the police found no evidence that Amy was having an affair. But they easily found out that he was having at least three affairs. Yeah. And so I think it kind of leads you in a certain direction, right, on these emails. If they can't find a single shred of evidence of her having an affair, pretty hard to believe that there's a woman out there who's angry with her sending her emails telling her to kill herself.

Opening statements in Stephen's murder trial began on January 23rd, 2018. prosecutors argued that Stephen didn't want to divorce Amy because he would lose his standing within the church. Stephen was also the beneficiary to Amy $700,000 life insurance policy. Pretty healthy. Yeah, that is a healthy amount. I mean, when you talk about motive for murder, how often does it come down to money or not wanting to get a divorce, for a number of reasons, one of which can also be giving up your money. Right.

But here you have the church kind of intertwined. You know, he doesn't want this to come out. Yeah, he wants to protect his reputation and profit off of her murder. Prosecutor Jamie Cruiser told the jury that Stephen learned about the Ashley Madison website through his position as a marriage counselor. investigators identified at least two women. Stephen met through the site. The defense argued that the timeline leading up to Amy's death would have made it impossible for Stephen to be the killer.

They did acknowledge Stephen's affairs, but argued that his infidelity didn't mean he killed Amy. Well, yeah, you could make that statement, right? People can have affairs. Doesn't mean they're going to be a killer. No, that's a true statement. It doesn't mean. that he killed him.

Could it be a factor in determining that he did? Yeah. Yeah, you sprinkle all the other stuff along with it. It kind of changes that. But I think that's true with a lot of things. You know, if you just take one thing in a vacuum, it might not mean all that much. But combined with all the other evidence,

you know, it does a lot of times form a pretty convincing picture. Yeah. The defense, question the credibility of the computer analyst to examine Stevens' devices and claimed the investigation of the house was contaminated. So I mean, I haven't said it yet, but to me, it kind of felt like going into it, right? The defense was up against it. Yeah, I think their back was up against that wall. Yeah, they were going to have a tough time, but they were going to have

to try a lot of different things. They were going to have to try to attack the evidence, the investigation, all of that. At least three neighbors claimed they saw Amy outside the home. On the night of her death, neighbors also heard two vehicles racing out of the neighborhood around the same time. According to the defense, authorities also failed to follow up on an unknown user who remotely accessed Stevens' computer the day of Amy's death. That's a way to put some doubt out there, right? Right. Who are these people racing out of the neighborhood?

What was this person doing if they access Stevens computer remotely? You know, could they have been dog day got? Do you remember when I used to remote into your computer? Did you not know that? I did not know that. Oh. Just move on. Sorry.

On January 26, 2018, the United Church of God issued a statement about Stephen's trial. The church said that media outlets had published inaccurate comments. Part of the statement read, here are the facts about the United Church of God and its beliefs. We highly value Scripture in regard the Bible as the authoritative word of God. In respect to marriage, the church positively teaches. It involves a lifelong commitment of mutual love, respect, and selfless service. Marriage is a holy covenant that reflects our relationship with Jesus Christ. The church also strongly follows the biblical command that murder, even the mere thought of

murder, is condemned to sin and can never be justified. Unlike what some may have insinuated, our ministers are called to be humble servants, as stated in the New Testament. These pastors must be men of blameless lives because they are God's ministers. They must not be proud or impatient. They must not be drunkards or fighters or greedy for money. So it sounds to me, you know, like the church was maybe being cast in a bad light as though it was this stance against divorce that had caused Stephen Allwine to kill his wife.

Right. And they were kind of, I guess, trying to defend themselves in a way. Yeah, saying it's not really true. Here's where our stance is. This is what we mean. And we obviously don't believe in murder. Right. The state called on the computer forensic expert who examined 66 devices seized from the

Allwine residents, including a MacBook Pro with the username S. Allwine and an iPhone 6S named. named S. Allwine's phone. The computer forensic expert testified that user S. Allwine downloaded Tor, a web browser that people use to access the dark web on the MacBook Pro sees from the house. He found the note on the computer with the email address shark lasers.com. This allows users to send anonymous emails. I did not know that. I'm assuming you did. I did. But that is not.

me that sends you those certain emails. Well, somebody needs to stop doing it. User S. Allwine composed an anonymous email on the MacBook Pro. And I think some of this testimony, you know, really kind of gets to the heart of the matter. You know, who was using that computer to access the dark web? Because that's where the hit was ordered. Right. Who sent anonymous emails? Because we know, so Amy received anonymous emails instructing her to end her life, telling her, threatening her. It's not looking good for him. It's really not. The user Dog Day God first used the dark web to contact BASA Mafia on February 14th, 2016.

On February 15th, Stephen used his MacBook Pro to search Amy's itinerary for the dog training convention in Moline, Illinois. He also did a search for the distance between Chicago and Moline. Two minutes later, Dog Day God messaged Vasa Mafia per Fox 9. The target will be traveling out of town to Moline, about a three-hour drive from Chicago. What is the price in Bitcoin for hit and ideally making it look like an accident? And to me, you know, this is kind of fascinating because, you know, if you just look at some one looking up his wife's itinerary and how far away it is, you know, that doesn't mean anything to me.

No, you're thinking, well, I just wanted to see how far away from Chicago, one of the major cities that she was going to be from. Yeah. And well, you know, what is she doing that day? What does she have going on? But when that activity is immediately followed by messaging the hitman or the hitman a ranger and giving that information to them. Well, obviously then it puts it in a much different life. On March 5th, user S. Allwine used the MacBook Pro to view Amy's Facebook and browse her photos.

And it was the very next day that Dog Day God sent a picture of Amy to base a mafia. This occurred moments after Stephen downloaded the picture from his home server. So again, with the technology, they're able to kind of see when all of this stuff happened. And it looks very bad. It does. For Stephen All right. Baysa Mafia told Dog Day God how to purchase Bitcoin and how he could cover his tracks by reporting it stole.

A few days later, Stephen purchased Bitcoin and reported it stole. So, you know, when you look at all of the things that Stephen did and then all of the things that Dog Day God did. Pretty hard not to believe that Dog Day God is Stephen Olin. Yeah. I mean, if you look at it, you know, it looks like it's him, smells like it's him. Yeah, it's him. According to Fox 9, he purchased 15.5 bitcoins worth more than $6,000. what I found amazing was that they said in that same article that it would be worth about $870,000 today. I think more like 920, but okay, you know,

we'll go with that. Who are they versus who I am? Well, and I don't know exactly. I can't remember when that article was written. So you could be right today. But yeah, that Bitcoin, I should have got in on that. A lot of people wish they got in on it. And there's a lot of people who wish that they got out on it, you know, got out on it at the right time.

Yeah, it's gone up and down, right? Throughout the years. So we talked about this Bitcoin wallet, which I think is an important piece of the puzzle because it's what helps to allow some of these transactions to be untraceable. You know, Stephen's Bitcoin wallet had a unique 34-digit character code. That's a lot of characters. That is a lot of characters. on March 22nd, Stephen copied the code to the Notes app on his iPhone. 23 seconds later, Dog Day God sent the same code to base a mafia to pay for the hit.

And again, all of these things, they are just tying Stephen Allwine and Dog Day God together as being the same person. Not that smart of a guy. 40 seconds later, the note was deleted from Steven's iPhone. The deleted note, though, was copied to iCloud and was backed up onto a new iPhone 6 on May 27. Yeah, you know what? It's hard to get rid of. The cloud? Yeah.

I always like to write things on a piece of paper and then burn it or eat it. Okay. Eating it seems a little extreme, but I got you. It's fiber. But we're going to see more and more of this. right with all of this technology the cloud and everything kind of auto sinking backing up a lot of people may not realize that what they thought they deleted or what they thought they got rid of is actually out there sitting on the cloud somewhere yeah a lot of that electronic stuff leaves some type of footprint you know unless you're very very smart and know how to clean it out which most people won't know how to do you're going to be screwed. Or you could just not do anything bad.

Well, that would be the awesome thing, right? Just don't do anything. Don't murder anyone. Don't commit any types of sexual crimes. Don't hurt anyone. Just don't break the law. No. And then you don't have to worry about what's on your computer.

You know, if you want to break the law, do this. Go to your mattress and rip those tags off. Okay. You know. I got you. But I didn't endorse that. or walk across the street right in the middle. Don't even go to the crosswalk.

That's right. Go ahead and j-walk. We're not advocating that either. No. Moonwalk, I'm down with. How about you moonwalk across the crosswalk? I can do that. Totally legal.

According to the Twin Cities Pioneer Press, Stephen searched for the names of Amy's family members on his computer in July 2016. Amy received anonymous emails threatening to, harm her family. I think he didn't know what their names were. Yeah, I thought that was a little strange. I don't know how far he had to branch out. On August 3rd, Stephen's iPhone was backed up to his MacBook Pro.

The backup included the Bitcoin Wallet Code. An officer and the medical examiner testified that the evidence at the all wine residence was not consistent with suicide. And I don't know how, you know, just from the rudimental knowledge that you and I have, it was pretty clear to see that it didn't appear to be suicide at all. No, especially he had GSR on his hand. And she didn't.

No contact wound. On January 31st, 2018, Stephen Allwine was found guilty of first degree murder. Stephen was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole on February 2nd, 2018. So we didn't go, you know, into all that much detail when it comes to the trial, but I didn't feel like we really needed to. We hit the highlights of the evidence against him. It doesn't seem to me, Gibbs, that it would have been that difficult for a jury to put this together. It kind of seemed like a slam dunk. Stephen spoke in court and said he had always loved Amy and didn't kill her. He said, per Fox 9, I've never asked for anything except to work for God.

He continued, I never went to sleep. I never woke up without kissing her. The grief of losing her is tremendous. No one ever talked bad about our relationship. Kind of makes me sick. And you know, there might even be some truth in that statement. But to me at a certain point, he felt differently. He started having the affairs. And then obviously he started having thoughts about, you know, wanting her debt. Because instead of asking for a divorce that he knew the church would not approve because he wanted to keep his reputation there. Keep his money. Keep his money. Get her money. Get her money. He chose to go out to the dark web and orchestrate this murder for hire. And when that didn't happen, he chose to do it himself.

He told the judge how he had been doing Bible study at the county jail. He met people addicted to drugs, child molesters, and kidnappers. He added, I'm going to take my Bible to St. Cloud Prison and see what happens. Okay. Good on you. Yeah. Where's all this goodness? Right.

When it really counted, you know. The judge told Stephen, you are an incredible actor, a hypocrite, and a cold and calculating killer. Love that. Yeah, I mean, just lay it out there. You know, here's a judge. And I think a lot of them are like this. They're not pulling any punches. They're telling it like it is because I think they hear so much BS, right, from people.

You know, here's Stephen talking about doing Bible study, counseling people addicted to drugs and child molesters. Okay, maybe you are. But it doesn't change any of what you did. No, you need some counseling yourself. buddy. The United Church of God also issued a statement after the sentencing, part of which was published by Foxnot. The church said, because of the sensational nature of the fact surrounding the case, a considerable number of international and national media outlets covered the events leading up to and including the trial. It is our fervent hope that all will continue to pray to our merciful

father about the entire situation and be compassionate about what the extended families are going through. Here is an important point. While we certainly respect the verdict at the same time, we personally are not to sit in judgment. We can have confidence that our all-knowing God is aware of all aspects regarding this tragic situation. As a result, we will not be making speculative comments about the verdict. Well, that's their fervent right. Yeah, and I don't even know what that means. A speculative comment about the verdict.

They're not going to speculate, I guess, about whether the verdict was correct or not correct or not. It's the verdict. I'm not sure. Stephen filed an appeal with the Minnesota Supreme Court in May 2018. In late September, while the appeal was. pending. CBS aired an episode of 48 hours titled Click for a Killer, Part 1. This episode featured the All Wine case and included interviews with lawyers and law enforcement who were involved.

48 hours conducted a six-month investigation and discovered murder plots that had already been paid for, but were not carried out. They identified an individual who identified himself as Jura, who claimed he is the man behind the international murder empire called BASA Mafia. CBS obtained clips from Yura's video diary where he said, A hitman marketplace is like any other auction site. It brings customers and vendors together. Any hitman is welcome to sign up, but not all will be accepted. Basically, his website invited potential killers to send him.

audition tapes. I wonder what that's like. Hey, I'm John and I've got some certain level skills. And I think I could be a valuable asset to your company. I don't know. I think they'd probably be pretty strange videos. Well, my thought was an audition tape would include some type of criminal act. Yeah.

Here's my last three hits. I don't even know. You're a sad in a video diary. If one searches online for, I quote, shot dead on street, one will find plenty of news about people being shot dead in the street by unknown people that shoot and leave the site. Those are our hitmen. We will be waiting for you to come place your orders and get rid of your problems. It's almost like he's really trying to hype this thing up to get more customers.

48 hours spoke to Eileen. Ormsby, an Australian writer and CBS consultant who learned about Amy's case while researching for a book about the dark web, Eileen found Chris Montero, an IT specialist, and what is referred to as a white hat hacker who also discovered BASA Mafia. And I kind of missing this before, right? Not all hackers are bad. A white hat hacker is also called an ethical hacker. They use their skills to identify security vulnerabilities when they are legally allowed to do so. Chris Montero has been writing about Dark Web Murder for Hire sites since 2015. He told CBS that many of the sites are scams to steal money.

In 2016, he noticed that someone edited one of his posts about the BASA Mafia site, insisting it was legit. Okay, well, let's face it. A lot of things are, in fact, scams intended to steal money. You know, especially when you're dealing with the internet. It doesn't even have to be the dark web. I mean, how many people get phone calls from allegedly Amazon customer support? Oh, yeah.

I got one earlier today. I get. I couldn't hang up fast enough. I get calls. I get text messages that I don't even know who they're from. Montero got into an online argument with Yura from Basa Mafia. One day he received a video from Yura that showed a person holding a piece of paper with his domain name written on it standing in front of a burning car.

Okay, a little intimidation. Yeah. He continued receiving threats in the following weeks. Montero decided that he wanted to take this guy down. But Ura's sites were encrypted and he regularly changed website name. Now, now it's, it's one thing to intimidate someone on the web, right? That happens. We know it happens. You know who you shouldn't intimidate or try to intimidate? A very skilled hacker. Yeah. You might be skilled yourself, but you might run up against someone who's better than you.

Montero developed a special computer code to hack the base of mafia website. This allowed him to see communications between, Yura and his customers. He told 48 hours, I discovered there are lots of sick people out there. And in many cases, being very graphic about how they want the person to suffer. Man, that's really scary. It is a scary thought. It is. We already know that there are a lot of people who have thoughts about killing. There are a lot of people who kill. We cover quite a few of them. when you add this kind of dark web element to it, it does change things up a little bit. You're talking about potentially anonymous transactions for murder, and that is a very scary thing. But Montero found a username Dog Day God asking to kill Amy All One.

He found messages between Dog Day God and Yura discussing how, where, and when the murder would occur. He was so concerned he reached out to the FBI. He told them about the messages trying to solicit murder, but didn't mention any specific plots. He felt like the conversation went nowhere and he eventually gave up. Disappointing. Yeah, that would be disappointing when you have what could be pretty credible information. Montero learned about Amy's death in January 2017 after Stephen was arrested.

Montero claimed that you're a tried to frame him by claiming he was the one running the hitman sites on the dark web on February 4th, 2017. The police raided his house and arrested him for incitement to murder. The charges were later dropped.

So you have what seems to be two pretty skilled hackers, both probably capable of doing some nasty stuff to the other. Almost sounds like a future Netflix movie. Well, everything is a future Netflix movie. That's true. Including movies that have already been made, as we discussed about, on Patreon.

That's true. I'm in the running for the lead role and urban cowboy remake. Are you? Yeah. They're just trying to find my sissy. So they made the decision to go much, much older in this remake? Maybe it's a sequel. Sequel.

Yeah. Whatever happened to, I don't remember what his name was in the movie. movie. I can't think of it either, but. And, and, yeah, John Travolta's character and Sissy. Yeah. So if they're going to go that route, John Dervalta could just play it. Yeah. Or you could play it. I didn't think that went through. In a video sent to 48 hours, Eura said the murder of Amy Allwine was committed by Baysa Mafia. He said the Besa Mafia hitman visited the Allwine residents and shot his wife with her gun.

and then left the location driving in a hurry. By the time of Stephen's trial in January 2018, Eura shut down the site and started the new one called Kosa Nostra. How original. Not being too inventive with the names. 48 hours messaged Eura on the dark web. He agreed to an interview in London, but never showed up. He believed 48 hours was being followed by British intelligence.

probably a pretty good assumption he sent an email that said i do have several millions to live a nice life and start several businesses why should i risk being arrested and end up in jail ura did give 48 hours the names of murder targets from his sites 48 hours contacted the police and reached out to the targets their tips led to four arrests so i mean i think this is scary from that standpoint that all right, he may have been scamming people, but that doesn't mean that there weren't real people on the other end who wanted someone dead. Not only dead, but in a very gruesome way, some of them.

Wanted them to suffer and all that. Chris Montero and researcher Eileen Ormsby came to the conclusion that Eura's murder for higher sites or scams. You're established a pattern with potential customers. After he was paid, the job was not completed. When people expressed their frustration, you're asked for more money to make the hit happen faster. You know what you're not going to do if it doesn't pan out?

You're not going to run to the police and say, I've been scammed out of $10,000. They never murdered my wife. Yeah, you'd never put it that way. Now, Stephen did go to the police and say someone stole, $6,000 and Bitcoin, but I think even that ended up biting him in the ass. Sure, it did. Because it kind of maybe led to further investigation into the Bitcoin, his online activity and all of that. After the 48 hours episode aired, the Minnesota Supreme Court

granted Stevens motion to stay his direct appeal to allow him to file for post-conviction relief in district court, Stevens' appeal to the Supreme Court of Minnesota was denied on August 18, 2021. In November of that year, Stephen spoke to Fox 9 and protested his innocence. He said he was framed, adding, when you look at all the scientific evidence, when you look at the hard physical evidence, I couldn't have done it if you know me as an individual. I couldn't have done it. And that sentence, I have to be honest with you, made no sense to me.

if you look at the scientific evidence, if you look at the hard physical evidence, I couldn't have done it if you know me as an individual. It seems like those are two different things. Absolutely. He's saying people who knew me or know me, they know that I'm not capable of this. Okay. I understand that if you want to make that statement. But coupling that with the scientific evidence, all of them,

That seems to point to you actually doing it. Stephen said the killer planted evidence on his devices to implicate him in the murder and suggested that investigators ignored crime scene evidence that could exonerate him. Stephen said he believes he knows who committed the murder and alleged it was someone Amy was working with. When asked about the Bitcoin code on his computer, Stephen said, my supposition, I don't have evidence to back this up is that someone else got it posted to the cloud. And then the cloud sinks with my MacBook and brought it there. He's got an answer for everything.

He does, but I'm struggling with how to make sense of the answer. So he's got this suspicion that it was someone Amy was working with. Okay. If that was the case, what would the motive have been? We don't know. And it doesn't mean that coworkers don't kill. We know that they have. But the motive for Stephen to want to kill his wife is obvious. It's out there. I mean, you can offer up all kinds of alternate theories.

But at the end of the day, number one, they have to make sense. And then number two, you have to have something to support them. Mark Lanternman, the expert who analyzed Steve. Evens devices told Fox 9. In this case, the evidence was overwhelming. I would say, this is probably the most compelling case I have ever worked on in the last 30 years. That says a lot.

Yeah. I mean, how many cases has this guy worked on in 30 years? But, you know, this is a pretty compelling case when you think about it. Not the fact that a husband once his wife murdered. We've seen that quite a bit. I don't want to downplay it because it's horrible. Sure. What was compelling to me about this case was the dark web, the trying to hire hitman,

the use of the Bitcoin and all of that thinking it was kind of an untraceable transaction only to find out that you're being scammed, you're not getting a hitman, and then making the decision that you're going to do it yourself. Lanterman also noted that there was no evidence. Any of Stephen's devices were compromised. Stephen's latest appeal to the Supreme Court of Minnesota was denied on July 19th, 2003. As we wrap this one up,

like I said, to me it was and is a pretty compelling case. Stephen Alwine thought that he could get away with murder because, you know, he knew a little something about computers, right? he was an IT guy, probably considered himself an expert. He did have apparently some experience navigating the dark web. But in the end, he used his personal computer to solicit the murder.

This device contained evidence that proved he was the one sending messages, requesting the hit. And when you look at the motive, and we've kind of already talked about it, but he wanted to have Amy killed. because divorcing her would cause him to lose his position as church elder. I also think that money probably played a big factor as well. He wanted out of the marriage. My thought is he's having all these affairs. Maybe he met someone with whom he wanted to be with more than he wanted to be with Amy. He knows he can't get a divorce,

but he also doesn't want to give up any of that money. and if he can get $700,000 on top of it, even better for him. There's a lot of motive there to want her debt. And we've seen this quite a number of times. You know, men especially believing that their best course of action is to murder their wives rather than get a divorce. And I think it's just really hard to fathom coming to that conclusion in your head. I mean, does anybody really want to have to get divorced?

No, nobody gets married with the thought that, well, yeah, I know we're getting divorced. That's not the thought you have when you get married, but sometimes marriages don't work. No. And people end up wanting to separate divorce. I get all that. What I don't get is thinking that your best way out of a marriage is to kill your partner. That's the part I struggle. But we see it all the time.

We do. But that's it for us on the Stephen Allwine case. We got some voicemails, Gibbs. Do you want to check those out? It's here. Hi, Givier, Mike. This is Michelle. I was listening to your Matthew Owens case.

In Givie, you sounded like you were from New York, not Boston. You're like, Koffee, Boston. That's New York City. In Boston, we talk just like this. I'm a lifer. In Boston, I love it from the red, to the now dot-trotten patriots to Celtics and Bruins. Those are your Boston teams.

Also, there was a person who called in to ask you for advice on her graduate education, and I'm curious that each time somebody asks you what your degrees are in, you just give the degree title of a PhD doctorate master's, but you never say the concentration. I have a degree in special education and an applied sociology focused on social policy, both a master's degree. So I'm wondering what prevents you or why you refusing to mention what your degree concentrations are in. Thanks for answering my questions. Mike, I love you.

You've got some really good comeback. Thanks. Bye. Yeah, Gibb. Why do you refuse to get into specifics regarding your numerous alleged degrees? Talking to me? Are you talking to me? You like apples?

Yeah. How do you like it in novels? Yeah. It's in world studies. World studies. I don't know what that is. General studies. I guess we just leave it at you may or may not have a number of different degrees.

They have. Most likely. Or unwilling or not knowledgeable enough to tell everybody what they're in. I don't like to boast about myself. Yeah. You're not a braggard. Oh. That's for sure.

little key, low key. Hey, Mike and Gibby. This is Janice calling from New Hampshire. I've listened to you guys for like a few years. But something that's been burning in my brain for a year was last year during Nurses Week, which is starting today, which is May 5th and Sanco de Mayo, of course. There was a story that you ran during that week about a nurse that was murdering patients. And so I'm just hoping that this year during Nurses Week that you don't share a story that's about a nurse murdering patients.

I love your show. I love both of you. I've been listening for probably about, I don't know, probably about three or four years now. So just keep up the good work and keep your own time ticking. Thank you. Well, we love nurses. Well, we do. And that turned out to be one of the more unfortunate coincidences.

Yes. of the podcast. We just didn't know it was Nurses Week and it just so happened that we picked that case. Now, it didn't happen this year because my daughter is in nursing. Yes. At, you know, the university she's attending. She made sure to remind me so that we could tell all the nurses, happy Nurses Week. Yeah, happy Nurses Week. We had one thing in the mailbag, but it was a really cool package sent to us from.

them, the Watts family. They're in Guantanamo Bay. Yeah. Some really cool t-shirts, like American Forces, um, network T-shirts, radio shirts. Yeah. And some pretty cool coins to go with them. Very heavy coin. Yeah. Nice and heavy. So we appreciate that very, very much. All right, buddy, that is it for another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.