True Crime All The Time - Stephen Epperly

Episode Date: September 23, 2024

Stephen Epperly was convicted of the murder of a Radford University student in 1980. He was the first person in the state of Virginia to be convicted of murder in a case without a body. Over 40 years later, the victim’s remains have still not been found. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss Stephen Epperly. When Gina Hall went missing, her family became worried. Gina was a college student who met Stephen Epperly while out dancing. He immediately became a suspect because he was the last known person to have seen Gina. However, it would take a lot of work on the part of law enforcement to get a conviction.You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 402 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson. And with me as always is my partner in True Crime, Mike Gibson. Give me, how are you? Hey, I'm doing good, man. How about you? I'm doing very, very well. Yeah. The Albert Fish episodes are behind us. They were good, but man, they were tough. Tough on my diet. Meaning there were times when you couldn't eat certain things that you couldn't eat. Absolutely. Yeah, but what a just an awful, awful human being. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. We had Mark Lemons.

Hey, Limons. That's how I'm going with. Okay, maybe. Yeah. Jody Bottomley. Hey, Bottomley. Deb Seccati. Ooh, Sicati.

Hayes. What's up, Hayes? Melissa. Hey, Melissa. Sarah Gaskell. Well, thanks, Sarah. Kevin Scott. What's going on, Kevin?

Neda Murdanovick. Marinovic. Carissa, Jensen Jenkins. Hey, Carissa. Jill Alder. Hey, Jill. Catherine, Gorham jumped down to our highest level. You're awesome, Catherine. Allison. Hey, what's happening, Allison? Ashley Keith.

Hey, there's Ashley. Which on Patreon, you thought was one name. Why are you trying to call me out right now? Because not everybody's on Patreon. Oh, okay. Don C. Hey, what's happening, Don. And last but not at least, Sly Super Fox.

What's up, Sly, Super Fox? So we appreciate all the new Patreon support. then if we go back into the vault, this week, we selected Sharon Landong. Well, thank you, Longon. Yep. Appreciate all the long-term support. We also had a couple of great PayPal donations from Raising Wild designs. Thanks, Raising Wilds.

And Jordan Raffle. There's Jordan. So thanks to everyone. Gibbs, right now we have an episode out on True Crime All the Time Unsolved, where we're talking about the murder of Githa and Gera. She worked at a water facility plant. And her body was found there in a water tank. Gonna leave you scratch in your head.

Yeah, it's a very mysterious case. And, you know, they believe it could have been a co-worker, but we dive into all of those details. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time? I am ready. We're talking about Stephen Epperly. Stephen Epperly was convicted of the murder of a Radford University student in 1980. And, you know, this is an interesting case for a number of reasons. One of which was that he was the first person to be convicted of a nobody case in the state of Virginia.

Which is big. Yeah. Those are very tough. But we're going to start out talking about Gina Renee Hart. Paul. She was born on August 24th, 1961. Gina was only 18 years old when she was murdered. She grew up in Coburn, a small town in Virginia. And from everything that I read, she came from a fairly well-to-do family. Gina started her freshman year of college at Emory and Henry College. She transferred to Radford University in the spring semester because Emory and Henry didn't all. You know,

offer the classes she wanted to take. Yeah, I've been down that row before. You have. Yeah. You've been down a lot of roads. I've been down a lot of roads. That have taken you allegedly to a lot of different, sometimes very prestigious colleges. Absolutely.

But I've talked about it before, right? Both of my girls are still in college and, you know, they didn't experience this, but some of their friends did. You know, when you get to college, a lot of people, they don't really know what they want to do. They think they know. They might have a plan or they might have a thought of it until you actually start diving into some of the classes and find out, oh, no, I don't like this at all. And that's where you may either change your major or even transfer to a different college.

I mean, I think we've had listeners call up and say they got so involved in true crime that they changed their major over to criminal justice. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Gina lived with her older sister, Delana, a grad student. They were both taking classes in the summer of 1980. Gina was described as beautiful, well-dressed, pleasant, soft-spoken, and popular. She was very close with her family, especially her father, John Hall. She wasn't a rebellious girl and had never been away from home without permission. So pretty straight and narrow, it sounds like, in a good point. way. Yeah. Yeah, I'm getting that. She didn't cause trouble. She didn't get into trouble. I mean, never leaving home without permission. That is not something that either you nor I can say. No, I don't think we can relate to any of this. No, no. Gina was known to be very shy. And she didn't

approach men that she was interested in. She was self-conscious about her appearance because she had scars on her abdomen, upper arm, and right thigh. At age of two, Gina suffered severe burns when her pajamas caught on fire from a gas stove. Wow. So she always wore clothes that covered the scars. And she wouldn't even swim around others unless she was wearing a towel. Sounds pretty traumatic. It does. I mean, a two-year-old. And then to be self-conscious about that, you know, pretty much for the rest of your life. That's rough. Her sister, Delana, later testified per Epparly versus Commonwealth. She could not have handled the emotional stress of having a physical relationship with somebody. And she never put herself in that situation. Well, if you have a lot of anxiety around that,

I think it would be tough. I think it'd be very tough. You know, if you're to the point where you don't want anyone to see these scars from this. this accident when you were just a two-year-old, it is going to be tough to get to the place where you can be physical, intimate with a person. It's a lot of trust. A lot of trust. And according to her sister, she wasn't there. Her sister also said that most of Gina's dates were just friends.

A close friend of Gina said she was too trusting because of her upbringing in a small town. Well, I can understand that. I can see that being a potential issue. Well, let's face it, most people in a small town probably are a little more trusting. You know, I grew up in a very small town. There wasn't a lot of crime. Everybody knew each other. I would say I was probably pretty trusting of people. Did you know Jack and Diane? I didn't. I didn't. I did see their pink house, though. Okay. But if I had to grown up in New York city. I'd have had a much different experience. For sure. And it would have shaped me differently. Her friend Kathy Carrico told the Roanoke

Times, she was real nice and easygoing. It's very unusual that Gina would meet a man and go out with him. She's just not the type of girl who'd go to a disco to get picked up and go to a cabin with a guy she didn't know. There you go, disco. Well, I said early on, that this murder takes place in 1980. So, you know, that is kind of the towards the tail end of disco. Yeah. I know how you felt about Sair night fever. You loved it.

Yeah. You lived it, though. I wasn't old enough to actually be out there in the white suit. I know you were commanding dance floors, uh, across the Midwest with, uh, you know, chest hair showing. Big medallion, all white. I'm sure it was quite a sight. It was something.

Hey, I was just trying to stay alive. Exactly. Gina and her sister, Delana, were taking their midterm exams during the week of June 22nd through the 28, 1980. Gina finished her last exam on June 28. It was said that she was in a great mood. And she wanted to go dancing at the Marriott Hotel in Blacksburg. It was said,

that Gina loved getting dressed up and going out to dance. You know, dancing was a big deal in the late 70s, even in the 1980. Yeah, sure was. It was like an event, if you think about disco. Yeah, a lot of disco and going on. And then later, line dancing came in. I don't know you used to teach line dancing in, what, seven, eight different clubs. I never taught it.

My wife and I did go line dancing. Now, Delana was too tired to go. But she loaned Gina her vehicle, a brown Chevy. Gina left at 10 p.m. This was the only time. Delana could recall Gina going out socially by herself. She didn't know if Gina was expecting to meet anyone at the Marriott. Gina was last seen leaving the Marriott Hotel in Blacksburg with Stephen Epperly,

whom she had never met before. Stephen Epperly was 10 years older than Gina. He was described as well-mannered, engaging, and a high school football and track standout. So on the surface, it looks like he's probably like an all-American guy. Yeah, the all-American guy. Sports, outgoing, well-mannered, you know, much like yourself. Except you were more into wrestling and wearing the required uniform. The singlet?

Tights. Singlet. Stephen grew up with his older brother and two sisters. His father was retired from the Radford Army Arsenal. His mother was a deeply religious woman. One friend said he had never seen Stephen act like anything but a perfect gentleman. But others noticed that Stephen had a quick temper. One high school acquaintance told the Roanoke Times,

most of the time he was fine. But I noticed he had a point where he would just go off the deep end. But then he calmed down just as quickly. It's kind of scary. Well, it is scary. I mean, you know, there are different types of people. People have different types of tempers. You know, some people, it simmers and boils below the surface for a very long time before it erupts in a Mount Vesuvius type.

Oh, yeah. You know, catastrophe. But others get upset very, very, very. quickly very easily, but then just as quickly, they kind of calm down. You know, people are different that way. You know, I know it takes a lot to get you very upset. It does. But no one ever wants to see you get to that point.

Don't want me see me blow. Because it is very, very scary. But then let's also talk about someone saying, well, I've never seen him act like anything but a perfect gentleman. Well, is that because, you know, that's what he wanted to show you. I talk about that in a lot of episodes. Sure we do.

Stephen was also described as willing to help his friends when they were going through hard times. Stephen attended Ferrum College, where he played defensive end for two years. He left in 1973 and returned home. In 1974, he enrolled at Virginia Tech and was a walk-on for Springwood. practice. So he must have been pretty good at football. Sounds like it. But he also became known

for streaking through the athletic dorm. Oh, there we go. Something you have in common. That is one thing that I did used to do. Unfortunately, his time with Virginia Tech football didn't last long. He quit the football team before the season started. Now, maybe that had something to do with the streaking. Maybe that had something to do with what for most people brings the streaking on. Well, that's true. Because I just didn't streak, you know, just because during the day for no reason. You know, I would streak when I got Frank the Tank. Got Frank the Tankish. These clothes are making me hot. A friend told the Roanoke Times that Stephen only had a year of eligibility left and didn't want.

to get knocked around for a year. Okay. I get that. At a certain point, if you're not good enough to take it further, and you know that. Right. And you're not enjoying it.

You know, do you want to go through all those grueling practices and, you know, those injuries and all that? And maybe he just didn't want to. Eventually, I think you would get tired of being the punching bag. While studying at Virginia Tech,

Stephen worked as a bouncer. at several bars. He earned a reputation for getting physical. I feel like there's a reference there to... Roadhouse. Roadhouse. I know. That's where you're going.

Stay nice. Keep nice until you got to get not nice. That is, I won't say it's not anywhere close to how it goes. It is somewhat close. But let's face it. As a bouncer, now I know Dalton tried not to

get physical, but there are times when people are going to test you. And you are going to have to get a little physical. Just get physical. Like Olivia Newton, John used to say. But I think a lot of those dudes, you know, that power goes to their head. Yeah. They're quick to get physical. They want to get physical. They've been waiting all night. Yes. And that's not the type of person that you really want doing that job. A former roommate recalled, he seemed normal to me. He was more or less just a while. and crazy guy. So apparently that was normal to this individual, wild and crazy. For me, I'm hearing all these, like, when you say things like that, and now I'm thinking Steve Martin. Well, yeah, obviously, that was one of his catchphrases on SNL.

Back in the 80s. According to the Roanoke Times, Stephen was charged with rape in 1976, but the charge was dismissed due to insufficient evidence. He was charged with rape again in 1978 but was found not guilty. Still, it seems like there's a little pattern there. Well, definitely a pattern there, but also let's talk about the 1970s and, you know, this type of charge. We already know it wasn't taken as seriously as it should have been. And I think a lot more guys got out from under these types of charges.

Yeah. You know, some women weren't believed. there wasn't the evidence. It was, you know, one person's word against the other or whatever it was. It really felt like they just didn't take it as seriously back then. No, I think that's been proven. Stephen graduated from Virginia Tech in 1978 with a degree in marketing. He got a job at a firm that financed auto loans. Stephen left Richmond abruptly and moved back in with his parents in Radford. he worked a series of different jobs. In the summer of 1980, he was doing construction at Radford University.

One friend said Stephen seemed trapped in his hometown. It was starting to wear on him that he still lived at home in his late 20. That was a much bigger deal back then than it is today. Oh, for sure. A lot of kids today are happy to be living at home in their mid to late 20s. Or 30s or 40s. 40s, but, you know, that was not the case when you and I were growing up. Most of us couldn't wait to get out on our own.

Wanted to flee the nest or fly. Hey, you go whichever way you want to go, man. People will support you. Stephen frequently talked about becoming a well-known, wealthy, local businessman. His friend said he was always getting big ideas for getting rich. It seemed like he wanted to become famous. but he never did. Okay.

Well, it's one thing to talk about becoming a well-known, wealthy, local businessman. But at a certain point, you know, there's a difference between talking about it, wanting it to happen, and making it happen. Yeah, you got to take action. The first two are pretty easy. The third one, which is the most important one, not so much. Not so much. Stephen never dated girls for any length of time.

But he did meet a lot of women when he did. went out. On the night of June 28, 1980, Stephen planned to go to the Blacksburg Marriott. With his childhood friend, Bill King, Bill picked Stephen up around 10 p.m. First, they drove to Bill's mother and stepfather's home on Claytor Lake. Bill's parents were on vacation and asked him to check on their house because there had been recent incidents of vandalism in the area. After checking the house, Bill and Stephen headed to Blacksburg. They were arrived at the Marriott at 11 p.m. and met three friends. One of these friends knew Gina Hall. Gina arrived at the hotel around the same time. She had never met Stephen before, but she danced with

him four or five times that night. Later, Stephen asked Bill if he could borrow his car and the key to the lake house. Bill told him he could have the key, but not his car. So Stephen asked Gina if she could drive and she agreed. Around 1 a.m. Gina briefly called her sister from the lakehouse and said she was there with a man named Steve. Delana recalled that her sister sounded very uneasy or out of character nervous. And we did talk about it, right? This was not something that she did ever. Yeah, she could have been nervous just because of the situation. Being alone with a guy. in a lakehouse that she was not familiar with. But this was the last time that Delana ever heard from her sister.

Later that night, Bill King and his friend Robin Robinson decided to come to the lakehouse to swim. They arrived around 4 a.m. And saw the Brown Chevy parked in the driveway. There were no lights on in the house. Bill entered the house from the upper level. He slammed doors and turned on a light, which alerted Steve. to his presence. Stephen was in the den on the lower level.

He called out to Bill. Bill didn't see Stephen, but responded that he had someone with him, and they were going to the dock to swim. According to Aperlea versus Commonwealth, Stephen replied, well, we've got to leave. Bill told him he didn't have to leave, but Stephen said, she's got to be getting back. That was when Robin Robinson looked down the stairs and saw Stephen

shirtless but wearing pants. He was wiping his shoulders with the towel. But neither Robin nor Bill saw or her Gina Hall. And if your last name was Robinson, why would you name your kid Robin? Why do you, people name their kids certain names, period. Robin Robinson. Robin Robinson. It's hard to say, first of all.

Bill and Robin went to the dock. Robin swam for 15, 20 minutes. At one point, Stephen came to the glass doors. facing the lake and called out to Bill. I'll see you later. We're leaving. Stephen didn't turn on any interior lights. Bill and Robin still didn't see anyone with him. Gina's car was parked out of their view, so they didn't actually see Stephen Lee. And this is kind of an interesting point, right? The inference is made by Stephen that he's there with a girl, but neither one of these guys ever actually see her. So you just assume she's there. Yes. When Bill and Robin re-endered the house,

Bill stepped on a wet spot in the carpet, but he didn't inspect it. After he and Robin pulled some cushions to the floor, his foot touched a wet spot a second time. He thought it was water and assumed Stephen and Gina went swimming and left wet clothing or towels behind. I get it. You're at a lake house, but normally when I step in something wet, I want to know what that is. Yeah, I'm checking it out. Mainly because I have a puppy in the house. And so, you know, chances are you're stepping in something that is going to require some cleanup.

Yeah. At least it wasn't mushy. Bill drove Robin home around 10 a.m. on June 29. He picked up his son and returned to the lakehouse around noon. Stephen arrived soon after in his own car. and was followed by two other friends. Bill took his son swimming while the others pitched horseshoes. Stephen had always been welcome to use Bill's house,

and he was familiar with where things were, but he came down to the dock. To ask Bill if he could go inside to get a drink, Bill told him to help himself. He noticed that Stephen was inside for an unusually long amount of time. When Stephen came outside, he asked, Did you fall in a hole or something up there? Stephen answered, well, I couldn't find an opener.

So clearly his length away was very noticeable. A much longer time than I think someone would think it would take to go get a drink. Before 7 a.m. on the 29th, Pulaski County Deputy Sheriff William Patton saw a. Brown Chevy parked on the side of Hazel Hollow Road near a point where a railroad trestle crosses the new river into Radford. The trunk was open. The car was found about four miles from the lakehouse. Gina's father, John Hall, later told the press that there were bloodstains in the trunk,

but police would not comment on this. It doesn't surprise me. We hear it time and time again, right? Police don't want to talk about certain things in an ongoing investigation. Deputy Sheriff Patton wasn't concerned about the. car initially because he knew that college students often parked near the riverbank. He returned in the early morning hours of June 30 and saw that the car was still there with the trunk open and the driver's side window down. He checked a registration and learned the car was

registered to someone with the last name hall and had not been reported stolen so he took no further action. Meanwhile, Gina's sister noticed that she hadn't come back. from her night out and she started to become worried. And I think probably even more worried than many people would be, given all that we said about Gina. Yeah, and the fact that she had that call from Gina, where Gina sounded nervous. I'm at a lake house with a guy I don't know.

On the evening of June 29, Delana Hall called two friends who went searching for her car. They found it on the afternoon of the 30th. in the same spot where Deputy Sheriff Patton found it. One of the men stayed with the car and the other went to the Radford Police Station. The friend who stayed behind saw empty plastic glasses, matches and other trash in the car. Delana testified that her car had been cleaned, vacuumed, and freshly waxed when Gina borrowed it on June 28th. So what is she saying, Gibbs?

Yeah, that looks like a little part. party went on inside that vehicle. And it wasn't her. Because the last time she had it, it was spotless. The driver's side door pull was ripped off. The driver's seat was pushed all the way back, which was unusual. Considering that Gina was thought to have been the last one who drove it, she was five feet tall and had to sit pretty close to the steering wheel.

You're like your wife driving. Yeah. She's not much taller than that. However, authorities would later point out that Stephen Epperly is around six feet tall. I cannot get into my wife's vehicle. I can't even get my knee in there. Yeah. I have to push the seat all the way back.

And you probably dislike it when she uses your vehicle and moves the seat all the way up and doesn't move it back when she gets out. Yeah, she doesn't use my truck very much. Oh, okay. But this does come up in a lot of cases, right? a car is found. A woman is thought to have been driving it, yet the seat is pushed back indicating that, well, maybe a man drove. Now, that could be true. It could be a ruse. Who know? By July 1st, local radio stations were discussing Gina's disappearance. Bill King heard her physical description

and the description of her car. He went to Stephen's workplace and advised him to go to the police quickly, so that they wouldn't think he had anything too hot. Which is good advice. Well, I was just getting ready to say. That does sound like pretty sound advice. You know, I think Bill is realizing that the description of this car matches the car that he saw at the lakehouse. Stephen asked Bill who he had talked to and who knew about his contact with Gina. Bill told him he discussed it at the local weightlifting club, according to Apperley v. Commonwealth.

Stephen asked Bill to go back down there and tell them not to say anything, just kind of talk it down, not broadcast it. If you hear that, right? If I say that to you in this same situation, what's going to go through your mind? I'm thinking something is going on here. Something fishy, right? I'm there's something not quite right. He's not telling me everything. That same day, Stephen spoke to his close friend William Cranwell and asked if Cranwell's

brother and attorney could represent him. Cranwell said, he thought not. He testified that Stephen asked him, if and when I talked to my brother to ask him, if there was anything that they could do to him, if they didn't find a body. So, okay. I mean, I think if you're this William Cranwell, there's a lot of stuff that's got to be going through your mind as well. Sure. You're thinking, hmm, why is he asking these questions?

Or why does he want me to ask my brother? Even more. The attorney of these questions. On July 1st, Sergeant Hall of the Virginia State Police interviewed Stephen Apperley. He said he drove Gina from the hotel to the Davis Lakehouse in her vehicle. As soon as they arrived, she called her sister. He overheard Gina tell her sister she was at the lake with a man named Steve. She said she wouldn't be out all night and she'd be home in the morning.

He went swimming, but Gina refused to get in the water. Then they returned to the house where he said he kissed herself. According to Stephen, Gina told him she had a bad experience with a man in the past and she would have to know him very well before she could. go to bed with him. So this is all coming from Stephen, obviously, but it does seem to match with some of the things that we know about Gina. Well, it makes sense.

She's not going to go swimming and obviously not sleep with this guy on the first day based on her past experiences. He said that Gina drove when they left the lakehouse. He gave her directions to his home in Radford, then gave her directions back to her sister's apartment. apartment, he went inside and went to sleep, right? So this is what Steven said happened. And this is 1980. He did have to give some directions to people back then. There was no ways. No Google Maps. No, nothing like that. Delana Hall later testified that Gina had driven around Radford enough to know

the area and would not have needed directions. He still could have gave him. Yeah, I think what Delana is saying is that she definitely would have known how to get back home on her own. But you're right. That doesn't mean he didn't give her directions. Most of us guys, we feel like we could give better directions than what you think you know. Oh, I don't. I am terrible with directions. Really? Terrible. It's because you never leave your house. Part of it. But I do think Delane is trying to punch a hole right in Stephen's story. Okay, you said you gave her directions. I don't believe you because she wouldn't have needed them. Now, if he would have said, I started to give her directions, but she said, oh, no, I'm good. I know exactly how to get home. Maybe that would have made more sense to Delana.

On July 2nd, Bill King went to the police and took them to the lakehouse. He found a broken ankle bracelet on the floor and gave it to the police, Delana Hall testified that it was similar to the one Gina War. Bill King's mother, Betty Davis, testified she had never seen an ankle bracelet like that in the house before. Stephen was considered a suspect by July 2nd. A state police sergeant advised him of his rights and accused him of killing Gina. Stephen denied it. The sergeant repeated his accusation. And Stephen remained silent. The sergeant advised him to cooperate and told him to think of how his cooperation would affect the jury.

Stephen said per appurly versus Commonwealth, I'll think about it. And to me, that's such a strange response. Yeah, because if you didn't do anything, why not just say, I didn't do anything? I don't need to think about it because I didn't have anything to do with this. But how could this guy not be considered a suspect? You know, he was pretty much the last person known to have been with Gina. Nobody else sees her alive again. You're going to be a suspect for sure.

On July 5th, Bill King spoke to Stephen again. The following quotes come from Epperely versus Commonwealth. Stephen referring to their conversation in the Dark Lakehouse asked, You did hear her, didn't you? Bill said, he didn't hear Gina and then asked Stephen directly if he killed her. Stephen replied Bill, I don't know anything about it. We'll just have to wait and see. Okay, the first part I understand, if you didn't have anything to do with it, you would say,

I don't know anything about it. I didn't have anything to do with it. But what does Will just have to wait and see me? It's a strange thing to say for sure. I thought so. Stephen never directly denied committing the murder. Bill asked him what happened between him and Gina. Stephen said a little fondling through the clothes.

That's it. He claimed he went swimming, but Gina refused to join him. I also think it's very strange that someone doesn't, not only directly but vehemently, deny committing a murder when asked about it. Yeah, it doesn't look good. I don't think. It should be the easiest words coming out of your mouth if you didn't do anything. An investigator from the Radford police.

went to the lakehouse and found what was called minute bloodstains on the driveway, on a walkway in front of the glass doors facing the lake, on a light switch in the den bathroom, on the leg of a chair, on a pair of shoes, on a golf shoe, on a dustpan, and on the fridge door. The fridge door had been wiped nearly clean, but faint blood smears were visible as well as hairs and fibers. There was a blood stain on the inner fridge door gasket.

The hair was also found in the cleat of the golf shoe beside the fridge. Okay. So I get it. They're minute bloodstains. But there's a lot of them in a lot of different places and on a lot of different things. Are they minute because apparently it sounds like there was a cleanup job? But not a very good cleanup job. No, because an 18 inch bloodstain.

was found on the living room carpet just inside the glass doors. It had been partially cleaned and was bleached to a faint pink color. I wonder if that's what people were stepping in, thought it was water. Maybe. It also could have been what he was doing when he was up at the house, you know, getting the drink. I don't know. But I would think he had to have done a lot of this that night because

who's going to miss an 18-inch blood stain unless it's been bleached to Hellenbach. The police noted that these bloodstains would not have been obvious to a casual observer. Betty Davis testified the house was very clean when she and her husband left. And to me, this is the thing about forensics. You can clean the you know what out of something. But it doesn't mean you're going to get it all. And think about blood in the gasket seal of a refrigerator door. Are you going to miss that?

Yeah. Well, for sure. Likely you are. Many volunteers helped search for Gina in the days after her disappearance. A group of five friends from her hometown found a blue towel in heavy undergrowth about 10 feet from the railroad tracks near the trestle where her car was found. The towel had blood stains and contained fibers identical to the carpet in the lake house living room. And Betty Davis identified it as a towel that was missing from her home.

Also missing from the lakehouse were an old blue and white striped towel, a roll of paper towels, a can of bathroom cleaner, and a large handmade quilt. Mrs. Davis later found the plastic cap of the bathroom cleaner by a trash can. in the furnace room, she thought it was strange that she found it there and turned it into the police. Well, definitely sounds like somebody cleaned some stuff up there. Yeah, no doubt, right, towels, paper towels, cleaner. But what really jumps out to me is this large handmade quilt. Because my mind immediately goes to, well, if you're going to transport a body, you're going to need to most likely wrap it in something, and was it wrapped in this large handmade quilt?

The police dragged the river on the assumption that Gina's body was in the water. A Radford police sergeant found a shoe, later identified as Gina's on the Radford side of the river near the end of the railroad trestle. On July 3rd, a Virginia State Police Sergeant discovered the contents of Gina's purse concealed under a brush pile along hazel hollow road. I think Gibbs, the one thing you would have to say is that as optimistic as everyone would want to be in this situation, things are not looking good. You talk about all this blood that's found in the home. Gina's nowhere to be found.

This bloody towel is found near where her sister's car was. now they find the contents of her purse hidden under a brush pile. Not looking promising. No, no, not at all. John Preston, a retired Pennsylvania state trooper and tracking dog handler, was brought in to assist the investigation. In the Gina Hall case, he worked with a German shepherd that had been used in over 150 cases and had followed trails as old as 21 days.

So they arrived on July 10th. They weren't familiar with the area, and they weren't even told that there was a suspect in the case. They were taken to where the Chevy was found. The dog scented a pair of underwear, taken from Stephen Epperly, within 100 yards. The dog indicated he picked up the scent that he was seeking. The dog left the road, ascended a path to the railroad trestle, and crossed the new river into Radford, following a walkway on the right side of the tracks. The dog went to an area under Memorial Bridge on Route 11,

then retraced his steps along the tracks to a railroad switching area. The dog went around a box factory following a gravel path to a main thoroughfare, passing through the New River Valley Shopping Plaza. The dog continued through more streets, across intersections, through a private lot, and finally ended up at a walkway outside of a house. The dog walked all the way to the front door and stopped. A police officer informed the handler that the dog had gone to the suspect's resident. Wow, that's huge.

It's amazing what these dogs can do. And you and I have said it time and time again. I mean, poor dog that he's got to sniff this dude's underwear, but you got to get a good sin, right? And obviously he did. But what a path this dog tracked and traveled. And it kind of, you know, raises the hair on the back of your neck a little bit, just kind of picturing it, right?

Going through a shopping plaza, around a factory, along streets, and ending up at the suspect's door. So that's pretty amazing that the dog, picked up the scent of his underwear, sorry dog, and was able to find the path back to his health, basically saying Stephen had to be there at one point, probably drove the car there and left it there, and then hiked home.

And the dog, you know, retraced the route that he took. Handler John Preston testified that the dog's behavior indicated three pauses where the suspect lingered on the trail. And that's amazing too. I didn't even know that the dogs could do that, figure out that someone had kind of taken a pause, right? So what? The sin is stronger because they were there longer, maybe?

Maybe. The following day, John Preston spread out six similar looking blue towels. The dog once again, sinned the defendant's underwear, then ran immediately to the towel that was found in the woods. The dog did not leave this town until ordered to do so. Impressive. I love this dog.

On July 12, while Stephen was at the Radford police station, Preston took the dog into the parking lot. This time, the dog sent it the blue town that was found in the woods. The dog went to Stevens parked car, then followed the sent into the police station and went to the door of the office where Stephen was sitting. when Stephen was informed about the dog's behavior, he put his head down on his arms. And he said,

that's a damn good dog. And apparently he repeated this three times. Like beetle juice, beetle juice. You're not brave enough to say it that third time. But it's almost like he's saying, damn, this dog got me.

You know, how am I going to get out from under this dog? I think it'd be a tough sell. On July 22nd, 1980, called off the search, authorities revealed several items of Gina's clothing were found on July 20th during a search across the river. A group of high schoolers found a blue and white striped town in Radford between the New River Valley Shopping Plaza and the river. This was identical to the one

missing from the lakehouse. Nearby, they found all of Gina's clothing tied into a bundle and stained with blood. The scent dog's trail went past east. each of the locations where Gina's clothing, shoe, and the towels were found. And again, I think that tells you something there as well. Now, the dog is not going to hit on any of this stuff because it wasn't given Gina sent to track. Yeah, that makes sense. The state police revealed that two people had been arrested in connection with the theft of Gina's pocketbook from her abandoned car. However, they were not believed to be connected with her disappearance.

They emptied the contents of the purse along Hazel Hollow Road. So a couple of people stumble upon a car abandoned. They see a purse. They take it. They probably steal some stuff from it. And you think, ah, no big deal. Right. Right.

I get away with this pretty easy. Who's going to find out? Come to find out the person who owns the purse is missing. and I think at this point probably presumed dead, you're really putting yourself in the eye of the hurricane there. Oh, yeah. You're wishing at this point you didn't take anything. Not that you should be doing it in the first place, but true.

Forensic scientists examined the blood stains, hairs, and fibers found in the lakehouse and compared them to head and pubic hairs from Stephen Apperlin. And head hairs taken from Gina's curlers. All the blood stains taken from the house that could be identified were typo. Gina had typo blood. In total, human blood was found in at least 20 places in and around the lake house. Right? Seems like a lot.

Yeah, I think it is. I mean, would it be unusual to find, you know, a speck of blood in someone's home? No, maybe not. They had a nosebleed years ago. It's not visible to the naked eye, but maybe. maybe through testing, you know, somebody could find it. Now, we are talking 1980 here. So what are they really dealing with?

Blood type, yeah. There's no DNA at this point. Well, unlike here, if they looked for DNA, they find it all over the place. Especially in that chair you're sitting in. No, no, no, why you have to go there? So human blood in 20 different places. Eight of the blood samples didn't match. The blood type of Stephen Epperely,

some samples were insufficient to determine blood type. The shoes in dustpan contained tiny droplets of blood, not large drops that would fall from a cut, finger, or a bleeding nose. The cleat of the golf shoe contained a Caucasian pubic hair that was not similar to Stevens. Embedded in the blood smears on the fridge door were five head hairs, identical to genus.

The mat in the trunk of the Chevy contained five typo blood stains, head hairs identical to genus, and pubic hairs that were not similar to Stephen. The blue towel in the woods was stained with typo blood, contained six head hairs identical to genus, two pubic hairs that were not similar to Stevens, and many synthetic fibers identical to the living room carpet in the lakehouse. The green plastic cap from the missing cleaning product can contain a hair identical to genus. Now, when they say identical, I'm assuming this is very similar to the phrase that was used back then, microscopically similar. Yeah, I think so too. But this is a lot of stuff, Gibbs. Really, if you think about it.

But I'm also hearing a lot of not similar to Stephen. which to me, I took to mean they thought it was genus. It was not possible to determine the blood type on Gina's clothing because it was exposed to the weather. Her jacket had bloodstains on the right breast and shoulder blade. The trousers contained bloodstains, two of Gina's head hairs and one head hair identical to Stephen. Synthetic fibers that matched the carpet of the lakehouse were found in the trunk of the Chevy on the fridge door, the blue towel and Gina's clothing, including her underwear. So, you know, I think when you put it all together, it puts her in the house, which Stephen did as well,

but it also puts her in the trunk of the car. Yeah. Couple that with the dog tracking Stephen's scent from the car back to his house. And it's not looking good for Stephen Epperly. Looking pretty bad, I think. On August 14th, 1980, Gina's father revealed that the main suspect, who at that point had not yet been named, had gone to Ohio. On September 9th, Stephen Epperly was arrested by the state police in Roanoke. A day earlier, he was indicted for murder by a Pulaski County grand jury.

Stevens' former defense attorney at his rape trial said he spoke to Stephen several times. After Gina Hall disappeared, Stephen said, he left Radford because his life was threatened. He went to Rona, but couldn't find a job, so he went to Ohio to find work. He returned to Virginia to turn himself in in case he was indicted. Can't find a job in Virginia. I've got to go all the way to Ohio. The place to be.

Stevens trial started on December 10th, 1980. Prosecutor Everett Shockley told the jury that Stephen killed Gina and stuffed her body in the trunk of her sister's car. Although investigators didn't find her body, the state's evidence would prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, he was the killer. In regards to the motive,

Shockley told the jury, Stephen had a raw desire for sex and killed Gina when she rebuffed him. And I think you can see how this most likely played out. They meet at the Marriott. They're dancing, they're having a good.

good time. Stephen most likely thought that he was going to have sex with Gina. But like we described in the very beginning, you know, she was very self-conscious. She didn't sleep around. She would have to know someone very, very well to get to that point. Be that comfortable. Yeah. Because of the accident that she had when she was just two years old. He most likely didn't know that. And when things didn't go his way, it turned back. It also makes you think long and hard about the two different rape cases that he got off on. Yeah, for sure. Years earlier. The defense argued that the police investigation was incredibly sloppy, bungled a little at each step. Delana Hall testified outside the jury's presence about her last phone call with her sister. The jury couldn't hear the details of the conversation

because the judge ruled it hearsay. According to Delana, Gina sounded nervous and upset and said she was with a man named Steve. The exact details of the conversation were reported by the Roanoke time. The conversation went as follows. Delana. Gina.

Yes, where are you? I'm at the lake. What are you doing out of the lake? I'm looking at it. Who with? With Steve? That was the end of the conversation. Gina didn't say,

hello, didn't say goodbye. Delana could only tell the jury that Gina sounded nervous. Bill King testified that Stephen never denied killing Gina Hall and he never saw Gina at the lakehouse in the early morning hours of the 29th. King's friend Robin Robinson also testified that she didn't see or hear Gina at the lakehouse. But I think most people find that's kind of strange, right, that she was there but never heard. Yeah, strange. Also, the conversation is strange, but none of that is going to put Stephen Apperly away for murder, right? The mere fact that neither, you know, Bill or Robin saw Gina doesn't mean she wasn't there and wasn't alive. The jury heard testimony from the tracking dog handler about the Centrail, leading from Gina's abandoned vehicle straight to Stephen's house. The jury was told that it was told that it. a blue towel, a quilt, bathroom cleaner, a golf shoe, a water pitcher, a dustpan, a

mattock, and paper towels were missing from the lakehouse, according to owner Ron Davis. And you and I both had to look up what a maddock was. And to me, it looks like a pickax. I don't know what the difference is between a maddoch and a pickaxe. They look very, very similar. So you would use one for hurting somebody or if you're going to maybe need a dig a hole. Dig a hole for sure, but no doubt it could be used as a weapon and it would severely hurt if not kill someone. His wife, Betty Davis, testified that a striped town and a bath mat were also missing, they found a large dark stain on the basement carpet when they returned to the house. It had not been there before they left. So, I mean, Gibbs, why would all this stuff be missing from the house?

Because somebody used it. And it had blood on. it, you can make an inference that, you know, potentially this Maddoch was the murder weapon and therefore, you know, had to be taken, had to be disposed of. Expert witness Patricia Hamby testified that bloodstains found on several items from the lakehouse matched Gina Hall's blood type. The bloodstain in the basement was also type oh. Three out of five bloodstains in the trunk of Gina's car were typo. Well, let's talk about that for a minute. When it comes to blood type, there are a lot of people who have type O blood type.

Sure. Pretty popular. I mean, there's only so many blood types. You know, you're going to fit into one of those categories. But everybody can have my triple O negative. Or triple X. Triple X. Hamby testified that three hairs in the trunk of the car matched Gina.

Gina's hair was found on the green cap, the fridge door. the blue towel and her pants. Stephen's head hair was also found on the paint. So again, there's a lot here, tying her to the lakehouse, tying her potentially to the trunk of the car. But they have to have a lot of evidence. Gibbs, they have to overcome the fact that they don't have Gina's body. No, they don't have what almost every prosecutor would want.

proof that this person actually is dead. Because you know the defense is going to argue that. How are you going to convict my client when you don't have a body to conclusively prove that someone is actually dead? To me, it be the number one thing that I would put out there if I was a defense attorney. The defense didn't present any evidence.

They didn't put any witnesses up at the trial, basically arguing that the burden of proof rested with the prosecution. And that's true, right? It did. But on December 16th, 1980, Stephen Epperly was convicted of first degree murder. The jury recommended life in prison.

So obviously, the jury was able to overcome the fact that the prosecution, you know, couldn't say, beyond a shadow of a doubt that Gina Hall was deceased because they never, found her body. They just took all of this evidence together and decided that Stephen Epperly was guilty of her murder. But this could not have been an easy decision, like some of the cases that we do. And there really is no smoking gun or aha piece of evidence. I mean, there's nothing that screams out, oh my gosh, yeah, I got you. Right. But it just, they must have just piled so much of the evidence up that,

the jury was able to see. And I'm, I'm wondering how big the scent dog played into this. Because when you think about, you know, blood, hair, carpet fibers,

he didn't deny that they were at the lake house. So, you know, what does his hair on her pants mean? What does the carpet fibers from the lake on her clothing mean? Not that much if that part is not in dispute. Yeah. Yeah, you're right, because he said they were there.

Yes, but when you have a scent dog, pick up a scent from her abandoned car straight to his door, to me, that had to have been a big, big part of this case, because without that, I think this thing's a little murky. Clearly, he didn't watch Cool Hand Luke and figured out how to put the chili pepper down. Well, nobody watches Cool Hand Luke as much as you do. Or, for that matter, talks about Cool Hand Luke. as much as you do.

It is a good movie, though. There's no denying that. On December 19th, Stephen was formally sentenced to life in prison. Stevens appealed to the Supreme Court of Virginia. It was denied on September 9th, 1982. In 2020, a bill was named in Gina's honor that could prevent some killers from getting parole unless they disclosed where a victim's body is located. So that is an interesting idea.

I like it. Help us recover the body. Yeah, because there's no incentive for Stephen Epperly to say, you know, here's where you can find the remains of Gina Hall. So for 40 plus years, her family still has not recovered her remain. Now, to play the other side of that coin, and you could say, well, what if he didn't really do it? Is that fair to him? Yeah, I get what you're saying. But a jury said that he did.

I mean, that's all we can go by. And as much as I talked about, you know, how murky, you know, the case was, it's still pretty hard for me to believe he didn't do it. I don't want anyone to get it twisted. And for me, it doesn't make sense. You've been found guilty. You've got life in prison. Unlikely to get out anytime soon.

What's the harm in telling the family where the body is now? Yeah, I mean, once all your appeals are exhausted, it just is them wanting to maintain that control, probably, right? What control does he have? None. No. Except for one thing. It's true. He knows something that no one else knows.

And that's the one thing he has control over, whether or not her body is found. Yeah. That's the only thing I can think of. Stephen Epperly applied for parole in 2021, but was denied. Pulaski County Commonwealth's attorney Justin Griffith wrote two letters to the parole board pleading with them not to release Epperly. According to WSLS, one letter read, he is exactly where he needs to be and he needs to remain there for the rest of his natural life.

Freedom should not now be nor should it ever be an option for him. Okay. He's not mincing his words. He's saying flat out. This is a very bad guy. Please do not ever let him out. Another letter said, I've said it before and I'll say it again. The only way he should ever leave prison is in a pine box. That's another direct straight to it. It's pretty strong. Yeah. Pretty strongly worded. Stephen's most recent parole application was denied in May 24. Stephen Epperly is 72 years old. In serving his life sentence at the Buckingham Correctional Center, Gina Hall's remains have still never been found. If Stephen Epperly wants to be granted parole,

he will almost certainly have to admit his responsibility for the crime and disclose the location of Gina's remain. Sure. Hey, if you want out, that's your best option. Go ahead and say, you know what? I did do it. And here's what I did with the body. and see where the parole board goes after they hear that. Well, I don't know that he has any other options after this 2020 bill.

Now, to your point, that would be tough for a person who was wrongly convicted. I'm not in the camp. That's what happened in this case. But, you know, that would be tough in that situation. But that's it for our episode on Stephen Epperly. We've got some voicemails. Gibbs. You want to check those out?

Let's hear them. Good morning. Happy Monday here in Denver. It's Jenna from the Mile High City. I'm the one who's done to Magnet. I wanted you guys to have a a Denver magnet for your fridge. So it wouldn't let me put any kind of gift thing message in there. So there are a couple other things coming. I ordered them off Etsy, so they'll come at different times. but the Denver magnet is for me I thought it was really cool so I hope you have a wonderful week and I look forward to I just finished second part of Albert Viss one of the serial killers who makes me sick to my stomach but what can you do anyway I just wanted to let you know that it was me so um and then

I'll just email you when you get the other packages too. But, yes, it was Shannon, Denver, we've been very recent to the Magnet. So I love you guys. And I hope you have a great week. I will keep listening. Keep your head on the quibble and keep your own time picking. Have a wonderful week. All right.

Love you too. Thank you so much. Mystery solved. Now we know. Now we know. Magnet is very cool. Yeah. And we love Denver.

We're going to be there early next year for CrimeCon. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Hi, Mike and Gibby. My name is Dari. I am calling you from Chicago, Illinois, long-time listener, first-time caller. And I wanted to tell you what happened to me this morning. I was finishing the podcast about Albert Fisher. Very interesting.

You guys gave a whole bunch of insulation that I have never. heard before and I was ready to go to work I was driving and having my breakfast and as soon as I bite my breakfast you guys the part of the description of how he cooked the different body parts came up so imagine me chewing on my sandwich my egg and bacon sandwich and you guys describing how this person you know, the victims. It's kind of weird. And I was like, oh, my goodness, gracious, I am throwing on this bacon now.

So I know it's funny, but it's not that funny. So I had to stop the podcast. And I, yeah, definitely threw my breakfast away. But I just wanted to share that with you guys. You guys are amazing. I love you guys. And have a wonderful rest of your day and keep you on tight tickets. Bye.

All right. We love you, too. And so sorry that we. ruined your breakfast sandwich. It happens, though. Yeah, in a case like that, uh, and others that we've done, there are some nasty parts that, uh, can certainly stop you in your tracks when it comes to, uh, eating. That's for sure. Right. No mail bag this week, Gibbs, although we do have some. I just didn't get to go pick it up today. So got to leave the house. Yeah. I had a bad migraine.

Yes, you did. That, uh, kept me from going. But we'll, uh, we'll have it. ready for next week. So that's it for another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.