True Crime All The Time - Susan Monica

Episode Date: July 20, 2026

Susan Monica wanted to leave behind a successful engineering career and live a quiet life on a secluded ranch in rural Oregon. Instead, her property became the scene of one of the most disturbing murder investigations in recent memory. Susan was born Steven Buchanan in California in 1948 and served honorably in the U.S. Navy during the Vietnam WarJoin Mike and Gibby as they discuss the crimes committed by Susan Monica. When handyman Robert Haney disappeared in 2013, investigators uncovered a gruesome crime that led to the discovery of another victim, shocking confessions, and allegations that there may have been even more murders hidden on the ranch. You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Start your free trial at Shopify.com slash T-KKKKKK at start your free trial at shopify.com slash tcatt. Hello everyone and welcome to episode 516 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in True Crime. Mike Gibson, give me how are you? Hey, I'm doing okay, man. How about you?

You're doing just okay? Just okay. I know you got a little troubles going on. I do. Yeah. With a kidney stone the size of Texas. I know. It's big.

Trying to make its way out of your body. It's invaded your body. It's not going to make its way out. No, they're going to have to break it up. They are. It's like Armageddon. They've got to send a team in there to drill through it, and then they put an explosive down in it to blow it up.

They're going to shrink them down like, honey, I shrunk the kids. Yep. All right, we've got to go into Gibby's, you know what part. Exactly. Take care of this thing. Exactly. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. We had Laurel.

Hey, Laurel. Julie P. What's going on, Julie. Denise Walker. Hey, thanks, Denise. Rossco, the rest of it. I love some rescue. Paul Parmley.

Hey, Parmley. Josian G.C. Well, what up, G.C.? And last but not least, Whitney Lindley. Well, thanks, Whitney. And if we go back into the vault, this week, we selected Don Black. Thanks, Don. Yeah, I appreciate all of the new support and the continued support.

So we have a brand new episode out right now in Unsolved where we're talking about 10-year-old Adriana Jackson. She disappeared while walking to school. And then months later, her remains were found in a vacant lot. Her cause of death is listed as undetermined. But investigators are treating it as a homicide. And then on Thursday's T-Cat, we're discussing the 2006 death of 29-year-old Bernadette Vandemir.

She fell to her death at the top of Angels Landing in Zion National Park. Now, her death was ruled an accident at the time, but nearly 20 years later, her husband David came back in focus for very good reasons. Very good reasons. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time? I am. We're talking about Susan Monica. Susan Monica came on to police radar in January 2014.

When authorities were notified that her handyman, Hayney, had been missing for over three months. When authorities searched her ranch in rural Oregon, they discovered Roberts remains on the property, Susan revealed the horrific truth about how he died and shared what other secrets were hidden on the ranch. Other secrets. Susan Monica was born Stephen Buchanan. In California in 1948, Susan served in the Navy during the Vietnam War. After receiving an honorable discharge, she began living as a woman.

Susan was a successful engineer and worked on submarines. in the San Francisco area, but she dreamed of a quiet life away from the city. She wanted to have a farm and raise livestock. Kind of cool to work on submarines, though. I would think so. I feel like you have to be really smart to do so, or, you know, very well trained.

There's a lot of risk there if you mess up. I mean, it is underwater. Yes. Intense pressure. There's a couple of things where there's very little room for air. Right? Submarines would be. would be one.

Anything that flies into space would be another. I would think. There's just no tolerance for error. And if you're my kidney doctor tomorrow, that is well. There's no room for error.

Exactly. I do think there's a lot of people, you know, let's say working in a big city who have, you know, good jobs, demanding jobs,

who may be long to get out in the country somewhere with maybe some, land. Yeah. And I think that's, you know, what happened with Susan. There's something to be said about, you know, getting out into the country, getting that fresh air or that manure smelling air or...

Which is where you live. Yeah. In 1991, Susan purchased a 20-acre ranch in Weimer, Oregon, where she owned a herd of pigs and raised chickens. She also started her own company making custom wrought iron fences and gates. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. Well, she was an engineer.

So, you know, probably not a stretch for her to go into something like that. When Susan first bought her property, it was undeveloped woodland. There was a time when she lived in a shack with no electricity. That would be rough in it. It would. And, you know, I do want to have some land someday. That is kind of a dream of mine. You know, right now I live in a suburb.

There's houses everywhere. I would love to have some acres where there's nobody right next to me. Then you would come out of the basement. Probably not, but it would still be awesome. No, I'd still be down below. I might come out more. But you know what I don't want to do is live like the Unabomber for a number of years while the house is being built or whatever.

I'm saving up money to build it. I don't want to do that. Have you ever seen how those. the unibomber actually lived once they got into his cabin. Yeah, pretty rough. It was not good. Not good. I seen people with that doing the van life living better than that.

Oh, absolutely. I mean, he had no running water. He looked like, you know, he was just dirty from head to toe. Yeah. Not to mention the fact that he was constantly trying to figure out ways to kill people. And he was educated, though. Oh, he was extremely. He was a genius.

Yeah. You know, we joke about you being. a genius. He was a certified genius. Well, you got to say that. Who do you think certified him? Probably Mensa. I was on that board. I did that. And probably like

him, you were also involved in some of that M.K. Ultra stuff. It's part of the reason why you turned out the way you did. Exactly. In her spare time, Susan made improvements to the property. She started off by building a large barn and then began working on a house. She was

mostly isolated. Unless she needed to go into town for something, she occasionally hired people to work on the ranch. In 2013, Susan decided to hire a handyman to build the house. She posted ads in local stores and even posted on Craigslist. Fifty-six-year-old Robert Haney, a handyman and carpenter, responded to that Craigslist ad. Robert Haney was born on June 26, 1957. And it was said, Gibbs that he did not have an easy life. According to his former sister-in-law, Debbie Almeida Pindry, Robert didn't get many dates and he wasn't very popular in school. He didn't have a large friend group and he was a very quiet person. Pretty much a, uh, isolist. Or isolationist. I don't think isolist is a word, but we'll go with it. You don't argue with it since you are in Mensa,

allegedly. But Robert never finished high school. Instead, he and his brother, Don, left home together and they began working. Robert began working in plumbing and construction and learned how to build houses. And, you know, let's face it, you can make a boatload of money in plumbing. You can't. I had some people I went to high school with who, you know, went into that trade. They ended up making really good money. Yeah, the trades, you get in the right trades, you can make some really good money.

Robert eventually met a woman named Thalia Larson at a party. They got married in the early 1980s and had five children together. Robert worked six days a week to provide for his family. He and his wife argued often because of this. Robert's son, Jesse Haney, said that Robert worked to drown out his feelings. Okay. That's interesting. It is, but I think a lot of people, when I say a lot of people,

I think there's people that do that. Yeah. That I agree. Choose to work, then go home and deal with the situation they need to deal with. Oh, especially if they think their situation at home is not good. Right. Right. You can have people who drink.

You can also have people who just work a ton. Yeah. Because they don't want to go home. I better run this TPS report again because I think there's some, it could look better. Honey, I'll be late. I have to run the TPS report. port again for Bob. Robert got divorced in 2003. He and his kids moved to Medford, Oregon for a change of pace. Jesse, who was 10 at the time, recalled that it was a fresh start for Robert. In 2012,

after the last of his children moved out, Robert decided to downsize. He bought a dog and a camper. That's really downsizing. It is, but, you know, I think there's an old saying, all you need is a good dog. Well, a dog is a big plus. And a camper. I don't know if that is the saying. Dog is,

but I don't know if it is. Then he found the ad on Craigslist for a handyman job where he could live on a remote range. So when you break it down, you know, this Craigslist ad, all right, it might not be for everyone.

But it sounds like it was hitting Robert at like the most perfect time. You know, he sold his house. He bought a camper. Now he's found a job where he could probably take his camper out there and just live. It's like the perfect for a no mad life. Yeah. According to Robert's son, Jesse, my dad and Susan Monica had a deal.

My dad would get parked cash and be able to stay on the property. My dad agreed to build a house from the bottom up. It's a good deal for both parties. Well, depending on how much cash he's getting. Yeah. I'm hoping it's a good deal of cash, but who knows. So Robert moved on to the property in 2013. When he spoke to his family in the summer, he seemed happy.

He enjoyed the peaceful, quiet environment out on the ranch. I don't know why he wouldn't. It sounds like at least for him, not for everybody, but for him, kind of a dream scenario. He'd already bought this camper, Gibbs. What was he going to do with the camper? Yeah. Travel around, maybe, pay to live on it somewhere. Well, now he has a place that he doesn't have to pay for. And on top of that, he's getting paid to, you know, build this woman's house. It's a one win for him, I think. Yeah, he's got his dog. What else he needs? He obviously didn't have a

good marriage, right? We didn't dive into it too much. But, you know, if you're working to stay away from the house. Well, your, your marriage is not good. No. Now, whose fault that was, we don't know, but even his son said he was a lot happier afterwards. Yeah. But by December of 2013, Robert's family was growing concerns because they hadn't heard from him for a few months. On January 1st, 2014, Robert's children met in Medford to talk about their dad. And they decided to drive out to the rants to check on him. That makes sense, right? I do. I'm assuming he's having somewhat regular conversations with at least some of his children, if not all of them. And now all of a sudden there's no communication. So they're worried. Well, we better go check on dad.

Yeah, something's up. They talked to Susan, who said she hadn't seen Robert since September when he quit and left the property. She asked them to collect his belonging. When the kids got to Robert's trailer, they knew something was off. Robert left behind his favorite leather jacket. His dog was just roaming the property and his tools were left behind.

Robert always took care of his tools because he needed them for work. It wasn't like him to leave them just laying around, right? As the kids found them. Jesse recalled that the scene at the trailer made the hairs on the back of his neck stand up. And I get it. You know, those are your dad's tools of his trade.

He's just not going to let him rot on the ground like that. He's going to keep him clean, keep him collected in an area that he can grab him when he's ready to go to work the next day. Well, the whole scene to me seems just extremely odd. First of all, you're going to quit and leave. But you're not taking your trailer. You're not taking your dog. and you're not taking any of your stuff,

including your tools, which is how you make your living. I mean, what part of that sounds believable? None of it. None of it. Unless you hit the lotto, and I still don't think you'd leave your dog behind. Yeah, you'd at least take your dog, right?

Unless you didn't like your dog, but there was no indication of that. The kids were also surprised to hear Robert would want to leave because they thought he was happy on the ranch. And this is the thing about, when you have someone who goes missing that does have regular communication with their family. Well, you find out a lot about their state of mind, what they were going through in that period of time before they vanish.

You know, we've covered many cases where victims don't talk to their family or really talk to anybody. And so when they do go missing, oftentimes it's quite a while. before anyone notices because they don't talk to the person. Yeah. And they just don't know much about what their life was like. But that's not the same here with Robert. No.

So you would have to believe that he's telling his kids how great it is there. And then all of a sudden decides that he wants to up and leave and leave everything behind. Which makes no sense. No. And you can see why the kids don't believe it does either. they filed a missing person's report that same day. From the beginning, it was a challenging investigation, especially because Robert had been unaccounted for for a few months.

And that's what happens when, you know, someone is not reported missing early on. Now, there's a good reason for it here. I don't think anybody knew he was missing. But it does make the investigation tougher. Always does. It was difficult to track Robert. Robert's movements because he only used cash. And the kids didn't even know if he had a bank account.

However, they knew Robert had an EBT card. And I get it right. Some people use cash. I think it's less and less nowadays than it was. You know, you think about like the 80s. A lot of people use cash in the 80s. Oh, big time. You always need a cash on you.

Now I can go months without ever hitting the ATM. A lot of places. just prefer that you don't use cash. Yeah. Now they're getting rid of like the penny. They are. I'm surprised he didn't get rid of the nickel at the same time. No, that's probably next.

But then you have this EBT card. And if that's not being used, to me, that would throw up some red flags, right? Because that means you're getting government assistance, whether it's SNAP or whatever it is, who doesn't want to use that money, it's like free money. Yeah, technically. Yeah.

You buy food with it and stuff. The kids also noted that ever since they moved out, Robert had been living a nomadic lifestyle. They would sometimes go a month or two without talking to him. I think that's another problem for investigators. You know, when you talk about someone who's got a very specific pattern, they do the same thing every day. and then all of a sudden they go missing, well, that's a big deal.

But if someone lives a very nomadic lifestyle and all of a sudden nobody can find them, is it as big a deal? Because they pretty much do it quite a bit. Maybe this time they decided to take off for a few months to go out west or up north or down south or whatever. Any other directions you want to talk about? Over there east. Over their east. Well, he was in Oregon.

I don't know how much farther north he can go. Well, you can go more north than he can't. Go to Canada. He'd go more north than he can west. Yeah, well, that's true. When asked about Robert's behavior around the time of his disappearance, his kids noted Robert was deeply affected by a recent traumatic event in their family. According to Jesse, someone in the family was assaulted.

According to Sean Lamontas, a former employee of Susan's, Robert was distraught and angry and wanted to seek revenge. The stress of the situation led him to drink more. Lamontas recalled that Robert would sometimes shout to himself, Why, God, why? According to Susan's former neighbor, Karen Denman, Robert was likable when he wasn't drunk. But when he was drunk, he was hard to deal with.

Oh, man, we've had that conversation before. Some of these people that are just nasty drunks. Yep. both about the podcast and just about our own personal lives. Yeah. And people we know. Detectives drove out to Susan's ranch to ask her questions. Right away, they noticed how the property was cluttered with vehicles, debris, and makeshift structures.

Susan was cordial and seemed like she wanted to help with the investigation. That seems like every rural property here in Ohio. I mean, if you don't have three or four cars, that don't run, then you ain't got a rural property. Now you're making rural how it look bad, man. But there is some that you have the multiple vehicles, got the couch on the porch or not even on the porch. They, like, dragged it near the porch and...

Maybe it's out in the front yard. Front yard somehow, you know. I just always think if you have more cars that don't run, then do run. That seems like a, like an issue. you. Now, maybe you fix them up or something. That would be different. Maybe you're parting it out over a long period of time. Maybe. Susan told Detective Eric Henderson that Robert had lived and worked on the farm for about six months,

but things took a turn in the fall. Robert got a call from a family member who was assaulted and he was upset. He began drinking heavily and behaving erratically. She decided to confront Robert about his drinking. On September 9, 2013, but Robert approached her first. He handed her some money and asked her to take care of his dog because he was going away for a while. She assumed he would return eventually. He got into a white sedan driven by another man. Well, now we know what she says happened.

And I think if you're investigators, right, you go out to talk to Susan. It said that she was cordial. She gives this story. I mean, do you believe it? Do you not believe it? what do you have that would contradict her story at this point in time? And I don't know that you would really have a lot. That does seem weird that he just gets into, you know, a white car driven by some guy and he never comes back. Yeah. Detectives returned to the station and attempted to track down Robert.

But they didn't have a make or model for the vehicle. So they couldn't even put out a Bola. The only lead they had was Robert's EBT card. On January 9, 2014, investigators contacted the state agency to see when and where the card was last used. The last activity was in December 2013 after Susan claimed Robert disappeared. The card was used at a Walmart in Grants Pass, Oregon,

about 20 to 30 minutes from the ranch. Well, you used to be a Walmarter. I did. I worked at Walmart for a number. of years, worked my way up from pushing carts to being assistant manager. To the assistant manager? Assistant to the assistant manager. I'm sure they had cameras, though.

They did have cameras. And this Walmart had cameras. I mean, obviously it was, you know, what, 2013-ish time frame. And authorities went out. They asked for the security footage and the store still had it. And what it showed when they reviewed it was Susan using Roberts car. Oh, how interesting is that? Well, I just got done saying, right?

How do you not believe her story? You don't really have any information to dispute it. Well, now you do. Sure you do. On January 10, 2014, officers arrived at the ranch to arrest Susan for identity theft and to execute a search warrant on her property. This time, Susan seemed nervous to talk to Detective Eric Henderson. She claimed she had permission from Robert to use the card because she needed to feed the dog.

She stopped using the card because it was expired and had no money left on it. Now, I know that these cards, I think, differ from state to state. I know in some states, you cannot use these types of government assistance. to get pet food. Maybe some you can. They're definitely limited to certain things. Yeah. But maybe in Oregon, that's not the same way.

While she talked to Henderson, other officers began searching the property. The search team was taken aback by the filthy conditions of the ranch, which included piles of garbage, rotting food, and industrial waste. Who lives like that? Apparently this woman. Yeah.

Susan Monica. But isn't it interesting? The first time they talked to her, she's cordial. She's calm. She's collected. Now they come out with some proof that she was doing something she shouldn't have been doing. Now she says she had permission, but she's very nervous this time around. Well, why is she nervous?

Because she's worried that she's about ready to be caught. Yeah. The first time she wasn't nervous because they didn't have anything on her. as they continued searching, officers took videos of the property. One officer came to a catchman pond type of area and saw what he thought was a leg. Okay. That's going to change the tenor of the search real quick. Yeah, you see a leg bobbing up and down right there.

You're like, uh, I better call the guys over here. Yeah, let's get everybody over here. And the officer turned out to be right. It was a human leg that was severed midfemar. And that just seems like extremely painful. Now, I know most of these types of things happen post-mortem, but my family and I were watching the last Saw movie the other night. Because my daughters and I, we like scary movies.

Sure. My wife hates the Saw movies, hates them because they're so graphic. But in this one, you know, as always, he's making them do things to themselves, essentially. And my thought in all those movies is no way you get through hardly any of that before you pass out. Yeah. Because there was one part where a lady saw her own leg off. Yeah. There is no way you're sawing your leg off without passing out. Because it's all under a time, right? You have to get done by a certain time. Sure. Yeah. Another detective approached Detective Henderson and whispered in his ear that a leg had been found. Henderson didn't want Susan to know. what they had found yet.

So he asked her to come to the station for an interview. I don't even know how he stayed so kind of calm and collected at that point. But obviously he did. And it was a good thing, right? You don't want to let on to her that she just found a leg in her pond. No. You don't want to give her any time to come up with a story. You want to hit her with a surprise.

Yeah, absolutely. at the station, Susan was asked if anyone had ever died on her property. She said no. And then she was confronted with the finding of the lay. And this is always fascinating to me. It's why I love to watch interrogation videos. You know, when you see the police kind of setting people up, and I don't mean setting them up as in planting evidence or anything like that.

Setting them up in these conversations where they already know, some very damning facts. But they're not throwing those facts out there. What they're doing is asking questions, which cause people to paint themselves into a corner. Yeah. And then they confront them with the facts. And it's like, oh, you just said, you know, this.

And now we have evidence to contradict that. That's when they usually pivot. They change their story. They come up with something else. But to me, that stuff is always fascinating. Check, check, make. comes into play. Yeah. Susan then told a disturbing story to detectives. She claimed that about a month after Robert went missing, she found her pigs in a feeding frenzy. She looked at what they were eating

and realized it was Robert. Susan said in her interview, I saw that, uh, you know, he was laying there with his guts all over the place. But he was being eaten what I believed to be alive. I thought that I saw his arm move and I did hear a little moaning. When I was unable to get the pigs to move, I went up to my house. I got my gun and shot him. I put him out of his misery. I do that, you know, I do that for my animals. And this was the first time I did it for a human being.

You know, I knew it was wrong. But if it had been one of my pigs suffering out there, I would have done the same thing. Ooh, okay. We got a real silence of the lambs, uh, pigs eating huge. human's situation going on here. Yeah, feeling that vibe. Also feels like a little bit of, uh, was it, uh, Robert Pick, Pickman? Picton.

Picton. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That was a gruesome one, man. Oh, man. I'm glad I was never invited to any of those barbecues. Oh, yeah.

That's right. I forgot. People ate some of, uh, some of that. But, you know, here's the thing that, and you do see it sometimes where someone says, I put someone out of their misery. And they always equate it to an animal. Yeah. Right.

If you hit a deer and the deer was dying, if someone had a gun, let's say they were a hunter or something like that, would they put the deer out of its misery? Yeah, they probably would. You think of it with animals, or at least a lot of people do, as being kind of a humane thing to do. But you don't really think about that with humans. Now, I understand from the scenario. she's painting. This guy's not going to make it.

Yeah. His guts are out. He's being eaten alive. And she says, well, I just decided to put him out of his misery. That's what I would do with one of my pigs. But I don't think law enforcement really looks at it that way. Well, especially if you're going to put him out of his misery and then cut him up and throw him in a way. Yeah. And not call the police and say, hey, terrible thing happened. this is what I did because it was not good, but now I need you to come get the body and, you know, I'll give you a statement, blah, blah, blah. And isn't that the thing, right?

If you actually did it that way, even if it wasn't right, but you thought it was right at the time. Yeah. Wouldn't you call the authorities and just be honest and explain what happened? What would be the purpose of hiding it at that point? Because if you thought you were going to get in trouble, you wouldn't shoot it. No.

You just let him die and then call the police and say, I don't know what happened. He got in the pig pen. They ate him. I don't know. But that's where everything always falls apart. These stories, they just don't line up.

I just don't think it passes the mustard. Is that the saying passes mustard with a D? Because how does that, how do you pass mustard? Like, I mean, you can pass it around the table. Yeah. I always thought it was muster. Now, I could be wrong.

Well, maybe it is muster, but what is muster? Muster. That's like you muster off of a ship or into a spot on a ship. I don't know. There's a muster station when I go on a cruise. So doesn't pass the muster. I don't know what that means. You can get past the station.

It could be mustard or mustard, but I'm leaning away towards mustard for obvious reasons. Number one, you said it. Number two, it just doesn't seem to make sense. I know somebody will let us know. Yeah, they will. She said she left the body in the pig pen until the pigs were done eating. After a couple of days, Susan picked up the rest of the remains and put them in trash bags. However, an animal, possibly a coyote, smelled the remains and tore open the trash bags and pulled the leg out to the pond area.

Boy, she got an answer for everything. He really does. Susan said she didn't call the police because she was afraid her pigs would be shot by authorities. Because they hate human? Yeah. Maybe. We don't care about this guy, Robert, and the fact that he's dead, and now a coyote is eating his remains and taking his bones all over the place. She's really worried about her pigs, though.

Well, yeah, because now she won't be able to put him on the market. or feed them any other people she might decide to shoot. Well, that's true too. Susan was told that investigators were going to search every inch of her property. And they asked her what else they might find. Susan asked for a piece of paper. She drew an outline of the barn and pig pens. She then drew an ex and said there was something worse in that location.

Oh, my. Worse than Robert being eaten and having his guts torn out in a pig pin? Yeah, these guys are probably like, these officers are probably like, what is going on out here? They're probably on the radio saying, can we get some backup? I don't know how many units we have, but let's get more. She then told them that this was where they would find Steve. And Steve was Stephen Delacino, a handyman who worked on the property in 2012. Like Robert, Stephen moved off.

his children had no way to get in contact with him and hadn't heard from him in years. But they didn't think he was dead. Susan claimed that in the summer of 2012, two of her guns went missing. She found them among Steve's belongings and confronted him. They got into a physical altercation. During the struggle, Steve grabbed the rifle and grabbed her legs. The gun went off and Steve was shot in the back of the head. but the shot didn't kill him.

Instead, he got up and chased Susan to the barn where she picked up a rifle. At one point, he was down on his knees and she was above him. She shot him in the head again and he died in the barn. All right, let's dissect this story a little bit. Yeah. I understand that in a struggle with a gun, a gun could go off, right? And someone could be shot. It did seem a little strange to me.

that he grabs this rifle. They're kind of in a struggle and he shot in the back of the head. Seems bizarre. It seems like a weird place. I'm not saying it couldn't happen. It doesn't seem like the most likely place that a person in a struggle over a gun

would get shot. And then he chases her to the barn. She's up, let's say, in the loft or wherever. He's on his knees and she just, what? zeroes down on him and shoots him right in the head. That's what it sounds like. Okay. These stories are always fascinating.

And, and, you know, I always say it. There are things that could be true, but are they more likely to be true or false? Or a made up story. This one doesn't have a great likelihood to me that it rings true. I'll say that.

Susan went on to say that she was distraught. And she went into another. room to think. A while later, she went back outside and found that the pigs had gotten to Steve and were beginning to eat his body. What kind of pigs are you raising here, lady? Yeah, magically, they found Steve's body and started eating it while she was, you know, having a moment to think. To think. She's reflecting. Yes. Right? After she shot and killed this man, the pigs dragged the body back into the pig sty area. She said she left the body out there for a number of days. And when she returned, all that was left were the skull, spine, and some other bones. And then two

weeks later, she buried what was left behind the barn. I mean, it's getting to be like this is a Tuesday for her. It really is. I mean, I'm thinking what this happened. She went back out after thinking and said, oh, the pigs got them. Well, I'll just let it be for a little bit, you know, wait a day, two days, whatever, and I'll come back out. I mean, no sense of urgency to, like, let me try to at least keep the body intact. Well, no, because that would be just less she has to bury, right? I just cannot even imagine being a police officer listening to these stories. I felt like my bullshit meter is just, it's off the charts.

It is. It's just going off like crazy. One thing I will tell you is I have no desire to lay down with the pigs. I, no, no. Someone ever says, hey, Ferg, you need you to, let's play hide and see. Go lay with the pigs and play dead. Are a lot of pigs man eaters? I was not aware of this.

I was not, I don't know. I know they do it in movies, right? They always say pigs will eat anything. That's true. So I'm guessing this is that anything. I'm sure we have folks who have pigs and they're going to call or write in and let us know. Now, Susan said she didn't call the police in this instance because again, she was worried authorities would put her pigs down. Well, yeah, because they ate a human. So most likely

they would put them down. During your interview, Susan said she vowed animal life more than human life. And I think that's very apparent, right? Sure. Even through these stories that she's giving police, whether they're accurate or not, even the way she's telling them, she values animal life more than human life. Detective Eric Henderson asked Susan if there were any other bodies on her property. He recalled her chilling response in his interview with the show snapped. She told me that if she told me about the 17 others that she would spend the rest of her life in jail. 17 others. 17 others. Wow. You found the two or 17 more. And why is that? Because she doesn't have the same type of stories for the 17 others.

She thinks the stories that she has for these two are going to be okay and she's going to get off. Yeah. I don't know. If you're in a rural location, and I get it, you have a lot of other police or deputies around you, but I would think a kind of chill would go down your spine when a woman says, yeah, you know about these two, but if I tell you about this, 17 others, I'm really in trouble.

I mean, that's, that's 19 people on a 20-acre farm. That's almost a body and acre. Yeah. And you didn't qualify for Mintsa. I can't believe it. I know it. I can't believe that you could figure out that two plus the 17 more was 19. That was, uh, did you see me, you know, having a hard time?

I saw smoke. Yeah. I saw a little bit of smoke. On January 14th, 2014, Susan was charged with two counts each of murder and first degree abuse of a corpse and one count of identity theft. I get it. You got to charge her with that. It seems like almost anti-climactic at this point, right, that she used his EBT card.

After the arrest was announced, a former tenant of Susan's came forward to say that she killed three of his animals. 49-year-old Patifon Pana rented a room at the ranch for three years. Susan shot two of his dogs and one cat and fed them to the pigs. Gibbs, I'm starting to believe that this woman didn't want to spend money to feed these pigs. Didn't have to. She was feeding them everything but pig feed. For the next three weeks, dozens of crime scene investigators searched the property. Cruise dug 136 holes.

One of those holes was said to have been the size of an Olympic swim. plumbing pool. Wow. Investigators had to wear respirators because they encountered raw sewage and had to enter buildings that were deemed unfit for humans. Several deputies got sick during the search. Investigators found the remains of both Robert Haney and Stephen Delacino. They also found a section of the barn that contained a large pile of shoes and personal

belongings. Okay. What does that mean? Is that all Robert and Stephen's stuff? Or is this where she put the belongings of a bunch of other people she killed? Why hold on to that? Why not burn it and bury it? So it's not there to incriminate you later on down the road?

400 bones were found on the property. But they were determined to be animal bones, not human. Still a lot of bones. It is a lot of bones. The search ended on January 31st. with no additional bones found. And that's kind of interesting because, you know, she alluded to the 17 other people.

Well, it doesn't mean that she buried the 17 other people anywhere on her property. Right. She could have disposed of them in other places. She may have lived somewhere else, possibly, when she killed 17 other people. Although she was kind of talking about her place when she mentioned the 17 other people.

So it's a little strange that they didn't find any additional bones. The examination of the remains of Robert Haney and Stephen Delacina confirmed they died from gunshot wounds to the head. There were also marks on the bones that indicated consumption by animals. This partially supported Susan's story. But authorities questioned if she was telling the full truth about her altercation with Stephen or finding Robert Haney already fatally wounded in the pig pit. And how could you not question it. The fact is both of these men were handymen, right, on her property. Both of them had little or sporadic contact with their families. Yeah. I guess my question is, what would be

the odds that two different handymen? One falls into the pig pen and is eaten by your pigs and you have to shoot this person. The other, you say, stole your. You. Stole your guns and then tried to attack you when confronted about it. He's accidentally shot in the back of the head. Yeah. During this struggle. And then you shoot him from a perched position while he's on his knees. Okay.

I mean, if you're taking bets, I would think the odds on those two things both happening are pretty astronomical. Susan pleaded not guilty to the charges and asked for donations. so her pigs could be slaughtered and the meat given to the Rogue River Community Center. Why? First of all, who's asking for donations after they've been charged with two murders? Second of all, who's eating up at this community center once all of this comes out in the media? That these pigs ate apparently two men and possibly some dogs and other pets.

Do you really want that bacon that bad? I do not. And you know how much I love bacon. Yeah. Director Sue Smith said, Susan was a regular visitor at the community center where she picked up food for her pigs. Her visits were less frequent over the past year.

Smith also said, the center could not accept meat donations unless they were processed and certified under USDA guidelines. Now, I don't know a lot about the USDA. I have a strong suspicion that the USDA is not big on animals eating other people. I don't think they would be. And then, you know, being processed for human consumption. Is it also interesting, Gibbs, that she was a regular visitor,

but then in the last year, she didn't come by as much to get food for the pigs? It is interesting. Is that because she was occupied with everything that she did out at the ranch? Well, I was thinking she didn't need the food because her pigs were getting plenty to eat over that last year. The different bodies that she kind of claimed to be. Yeah. She claimed to have out there. Yeah.

It's sickening to think about, but I mean, you kind of have to talk about some of these things. Ultimately, authorities euthanized Susan's pigs. And that's sad, but I don't know how they could. couldn't, right? Nobody's going to take these pigs. Nobody's going to eat these pigs. Who's going to care for them? Who's going to care for them? I don't know what could be done with them. On May 26, 2014, Stephen Frank Delacino was identified as the second victim found on the ranch. Up to that point, he had been unidentified in court documents. As she prepared for trial, Susan attempted to fire her defense attorneys. But the judge denied her request.

she argued that one of her attorneys seemed more interested in her mental health than the case itself. I have a strong suspicion that maybe this attorney had a reason to be. Maybe this attorney thought, you know, she's not operating on all cylinders. Because it seemed like she is. At a hearing, she claimed that Robert left her property alive and that she wanted her attorneys to look at his cell phone records to track. his whereabouts before his death. The judge told Susan, he would not let her represent herself on two murder and abuse of corpse charges and reminded her she was innocent until proven guilty. She replied, as quoted by the Bend Bolton. I realize I'm guilty of a couple of things,

but I'm not guilty of murder. Always fascinating when people want to represent themselves in a murder trial. Man, big, huge mistake. Yeah, everybody says it. I mean, your life is hanging in the balance. Now, it would be one thing if you were an attorney, had gone to law school, had passed the bar, you know, any of those things. Right. But, you know, now, I'm sure that she was smart. She was an engineer, after all, but she wasn't an attorney. Well, it's one thing to be smart. The other thing is you have to be versed in the law. Yeah. You know, you have to know what you should say, shouldn't say what you can do, can't do, can't do.

Can't do, can't do? Yeah. Because, yeah, if not, you just run into a real cousin Vinnie situation. Exactly. I mean, when you got to two Utes, then that's it. That's all you need. I mean, I love when he cross-examine that old lady. With the glasses?

Yes. You think it's time to. maybe get a thicker pair of glasses. Susan's trial started on April 14, 2015. The prosecution argued that Susan killed Stephen Delacino and Robert Haney during heated arguments and fed their remains to her pigs. The defense argued that there was no concrete evidence

to refute Susan's claims that she shot Steve in self-defense or to show that Robert was alive when she shot him. Now, there might not be concrete evidence but that last part came out of her own mouth. It's true, right? She essentially said that she put him down. Susan broke down when the jury saw her confession video telling the judge,

I can't bear to watch. In her interview, she seemed to blame her sense of humor for the murder saying, I see my stupid sense of humor become a reality. She also said that the thought she had in her head for 10 years became a reality. All right. I don't even know what to make of that. My stupid sense of humor became a reality. Yeah. Mizar statement. It is. You killed two people because you were too funny. You had this, you know, strange sense of humor. None of that makes sense. And then you've got, you know, thoughts that were in her head for 10 years. Does that mean she had thought about killing people for 10 years? Or had she been killing people for 10 years? I don't know. know. I mean, there's 19 people out there. The jury also heard Susan say in the video, I do not value human life very much.

My feeling is the only thing wrong with the planet is there's people on it. If not for us, all the other animals, even dodo birds, would be here. Okay. Dodo birds is a strange one, but. But I get what they're saying. Did we wipe out the Dodo birds? Or did a big comet wipe out the Dodo birds? I don't realize.

I don't know. I think we wiped out the dodo birds. Oh, okay. Is the dodo birds a newer species than like dinosaurs and stuff? I don't know when dodo birds were around. I really don't. Most dinosaurs are birds, even like trinosaurs wrecks as feathers. Okay.

None of this has anything to do with my question. I actually don't know what a dodo bird is. I'm just throwing that out there. You remember a step? brothers when they were walking around like they were dinosaurs i love stepbrothers i was just picturing you walking around like a try uh whatever tanosaurus rex tanna tanosaurus rex it's the pills i'm telling you oh my goodness it's the medication state police forensic anthropologist veronica vans testified that robert's legs were chopped off with an axe and the thigh bone showed signs of being gnawed

by an animal. She couldn't determine if the ax blows came before or after he died. Stephen Delacino suffered three to four gunshot wounds to the head. Well, it says, it tells you, right? The lay was cut up by her, not the animals, and the one animal dragged it over to the pond. She did that. She cut the leg with the axe. Yeah.

And then she probably tossed it into the pond. Oh, yeah. I don't think there's any doubt about that. Also, now we've got three to four gunshot wounds to this man's head. When before it sounded like in her story, there was one accidental shot to the back of the head, which I still think is strange. And then she shoots him in the back of the head once, I thought is what she said, from kind of a high position. Yeah. And now it's three to four.

Susan pushed the judge to allow her to cross-examine witnesses, arguing it was her. Sixth Amendment right to be an active participant in the trial. The judge repeatedly had to stop her for asking inappropriate questions or not following the rules of the court. On day three, she questioned Detective Eric Henderson, who she jokingly threatened to kill and feed to her pigs. Maybe this is what she's talking about with her stupid sense of humor, as she called it. When you're on trial for killing two men and feeding them to your pigs, maybe you shouldn't joke to the detective on the stand that you're going to kill him. And feed him to the pigs.

And feeding to the pigs. Yeah. Probably a big, don't do that. Ever. The prosecution called on Susan's former cellmate, Jordan Ferris, as an 11th hour witness, according to Oregon Live, Ferris testified that Susan told her what really happened to Robert Haney. According to Ferris, Susan said she and Robert got into an argument because he was drunk and trying to come on to her.

She shot him and pushed him into the pig pit. Ferris also testified that a few days after Susan confessed, she gave her a birthday card signed the sweetest murderer in Jackson County. Oh. I'm starting to wonder how smart this lady really was. Or if she wasn't suffering from some type of mental health issues because she's still. doing a lot of things, Gibbs, that do not seem to make sense. They're out there. The defense argued that the birthday card was just a joke, noting that Susan had a strange

sense of humor and made inappropriate comments at times. Kind of getting a feeling for that. Inappropriate might be not strong enough of a word. Michael Bales, who lived with Susan for about three years, testified she had always been nice. And then I noticed a change in her. She started acting differently when Robert disappeared and became real irritated. All right.

Was this guy thinking after he finds all this stuff out that maybe he dodged a big, big time bullet? Huge. Sean Lamanis, a former worker of Susan's, testified that she and Robert didn't get along. He said, when she got angry, she would yell at him. Not really a yell, more of a skull. Longtime neighbor Karen Denman admitted she had a strained relationship. with Susan. She didn't know who was arguing, but she often heard yelling coming from the property. In closing arguments, the prosecution noted that Susan's statements didn't match the forensic evidence.

She claimed that Stephen shot himself in the head and then that she shot him in self-defense. She said Robert disappeared in the summer of 2013 and she found him being eaten by her pigs a month later. She later questioned if he was alive when she shot him. Again, just stuff that just doesn't make sense, right? It really doesn't. As the judge addressed the jury before deliberations, Susan stood up, raised her hand, and asked to give jurors another demonstration

on how she shot Stephen Delacino. She said, I'd like to demonstrate how I shot him for 10 seconds. The judge ignored her. Then she put her hands in the air and said, I held the gun like this. I don't know. I mean, they're like literally right before deliberations. You know where the judge is giving all the instructions.

Yeah. And she's standing up saying, hey, can I just show you again how I shot this guy? It's like she rethought her story. Like, wait a minute. Now if I say I held it like this,

it might be better because I think they feel like I did it this way. So I got to make sure I tell them. But it's funny to think. of the judge just ignoring her and going on with their instructions to the jury. Susan was ordered back to jail. On April 21st, 2015, Susan was found guilty on all counts. She was immediately sentenced to a minimum of 50 years in prison. When handing down the sentence, the judge said, is quoted by KSL, you shot two people and fed them to your pigs. I don't know how else you i can put it you valued pigs more than you value people it may sound harsh but you are a

cold-blooded killer i guess it doesn't even sound that harsh to me to be honest with you i think it's just factual i think it's more of a statement of fact in my opinion i think 50 years is pretty light well i'm not mad about a minimum of 50 years right could be more than that i mean we talk about cases in other countries where people kill more people. And they're walking around the streets in two or three years. That's true. So I'm good with that. I don't think this is a woman who needs to be out cohabitating with other people. No, not at all. And those people in prison are probably lucky that she doesn't have pigs. You know, you know, if you're good after you're in there for a little bit, you get to

maybe help train dogs or you can, you know, get a cat sent to yourself to play with or whatever. I'm sure her request will be pigs. Get me a pig, please. I just need one pig. Just one. But, you know, probably, now, maybe not today. Could be today.

But I'm sure throughout time, some prisons have. had pigs, they probably raised pigs to help feed the prison population. It's possible. But they sure as hell aren't going to let her around any of these pigs. Because she should not be. But as we wrap this one up, Gibbs, you know, to this day, investigators still aren't sure if Susan killed any other victims on the ranch. Detective Eric Henderson told the producers of Snap, my take on what she told me about the

possibility of 17 other people being there. was that it was true. I believe 100% that there are more people out there. And I would have to agree with that. Why would she say that? Yeah, it's a bizarre thing to say if it's to make up. Well, because she crafted these stories, right? That, you know, one was an accident, kind of,

and then the guy was chasing her. So then it was self-defense. But then she's going to come out and say, but if I tell you about the 17 other ones, then I'm really going to be in trouble. Exactly. That is either just a wild claim meant to throw people off, but that doesn't make any sense. So to me, there's got to be some validity to it.

Or you lent it to her really bad joke telling skills. Or what she called her stupid sense of humor. Yeah. But it is also strange that they did so much digging and didn't find a single human bone. So I don't know. But this is a wild case. I mean, I think anytime you have pigs on a repeated basis eating humans that is just naturally going to make for a strange case. And then, you know, like most people, she has to concoct stories to kind of explain, you know, what happened to these people.

But her stories just don't make any sense. I mean, Robert Haney goes missing. and then he comes back a month later and he just happens to be found being eaten by pigs? That makes no sense. How in a struggle does Stephen Delacino get shot in the back of the head and then make his way to the barn? Yeah, it doesn't add up. Where she then is, you know, basically in a sniper position and picks him off. And what do you think?

Do you think that these people, when they're telling these stories, really think that they are going to get them out from under the trouble they're in. Because we're sitting here. We analyze it. And everybody listening is probably saying the same thing. None of this makes sense. But in their mind, it must, right? Why would you craft this and tell it if you didn't think it was going to make sense to the people you were talking to?

Unless you're just not that bright. And that's a real possibility as well. That is a possibility. But don't forget, she was an engineer who worked on submarines. Yes, but we all know people that did really well in school, right, with their educational degree, whatever degree, or I mean. But had little common sense. Is that where you're going? Yeah. Yeah. I know a lot of people like that, actually. But I don't know what is true of Susan Monica other than she killed two people. Exactly. And she fed them to her pigs. Yeah. And there's a good chance she fed a lot of. of other people, maybe animals, other things to her pigs as well. It's a strange and pretty

disgusting story, to be honest with you. So if you're eating a BLT right now, you apologize. No, I would, I'd love to have one right now. And it wouldn't bother me at all. You're like extra bacon. Bacon for me, please. I'm like Ron Swanson. Did you ever watch Parks and Rec? Yeah. Ron Swanson's my favorite character on there. And he goes into this place and he says, give me all the eggs and bacon you have. He says, I don't mean begs. I mean all the eggs and bacon you have. All right, buddy.

That's it for our episode on Susan Monica. We got a couple of voicemails. You want to check those out? Yeah, see them. Good morning. I'm Jessica from Clarkville, Indiana. I just wanted to call and say that you are the best podcaster is. Love it.

I recently just found it. And yes, I listen to you guys all day long. It's amazing. I think I'm on number 117. Anyway, keep your own time ticking. Well, thank you so much for the wonderful voicemail. She got a lot to go, Gibbs. She does, but it's awesome that she thinks of us that way.

Yeah. Why did you say it? Like, you were almost sad about it. Because she's got a long way to go. Well, you think her opinion's going to change as she goes on. It might. We don't know. Never know. Hello. My name is Jamie.

I sent an email to you guys way back in 2022 regarding whether or not you guys were covering the case of David Grunwald in Alaska. Just waiting to see when that one's coming up. I hope you guys are doing well. Love the show. Talk to you soon. That's interesting. I actually have this email right here. It says, Dear Mike and Gibby, Gibby, we, meaning her and her friends, love you.

hate Mike. Please do David Grimmon. Yes. How'd you? You actually, it's like you got the, you probably got the same email. Yeah, I probably do. Yeah.

Yeah, I don't know. I have to look on the list and bump it up. I'm sure. It's on there. If you told us about it, we put it on there. Yeah, we usually put all of them on there. It's just there's so many things to choose from. Yeah.

You know. So, but I'll try to make it a priority. Yes, he will. All right, buddy, that is it for another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike. And give me. Stay safe. keep your own time ticking.