True Crime All The Time - The McStay Family Murders

Episode Date: September 1, 2025

Joseph McStay, his wife Summer, and their two young sons went missing in February 2010. Their bodies were found in the California desert three years later. Initially, it was believed that the family had decided to travel to Mexico, but authorities discovered evidence suggesting that someone close to Joseph was involved in their murders.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the murders of the McStay family. The family of four was thriving in California at the time that they went missing. Several things led the authorities to believe they had walked across the border into Mexico. However, the evidence began to lead authorities to a close friend and business associate of Josephs named Chase Merritt. But Merritt wasn't the only one with a motive and who had evidence pointing in their direction.You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 449 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson. And with me as always as my partner in True Crime, Mike Gibson, Gibby, how are you? Yeah, I'm doing good about you. I'm doing great. You and I just did our weekly Patreon kind of minisode thing and, you know, talked about what we were watching, what's going on in our lives. But also talked about the return of Mind Hunter. Yes, we did. Which is, uh, A very exciting thing. I can't wait to be in that episode. As a perpetrator. As a perpetrator.

I'll be the guy in the mask, so you might not recognize me. Uh-huh. And are they also changing my voice up a little bit, so. Might be hard. Hard to realize that's actually me. Yeah. But it is you. Yes.

Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. We had Amber Hoff jump out at our highest level. The Hoff. You remember the Hoff? You mean from Baywatch? Eating the cheeseburger off the floor? Oh, you're talking about drunk cell phone video hog. Oh, yeah, that was something else, man.

Yeah. Was he also, like, badmouthing his daughter, or was that Baldwin? I think it was Baldwin. Yeah. Some of these guys let themselves get videotaped in very compromising situations. Yeah, exactly. But thank you, Amber. Yeah.

We had Kristen Walker. Hey, there's the Texas Walker. Margaret Pirozky. What's up, Pirooski? Moni Hill jumped out at our highest level. It's like Billy Idol, Mony, moony, moony. Yeah. Yeah.

Amber Ryan. Hey, Amber. Padre Paul Ballin. Yeah, got to be bawling. Tamara Moore. Did she say you got to be bawling? I don't know why that came out that way. He made me laugh.

Free balling. Hey, Tamara. And last but not at least, Noah. The Noah. And then if we go back into the vault. This week we selected Nicole Dutcher. Hey, Nicole. Yeah, so we appreciate all the support we get.

Gibbs, we have a brand new episode out right now on True Crime All the Time Unsolved. We're talking about Matt Florence. He was murdered in the parking lot of his workplace on what appeared to be a normal morning in 1994, but over three decades of past. And investigators still have not identified a suspect. they're still struggling with even a potential motive. Yeah, that makes it really hard to solve a case. Yeah, so we'll go through all the details.

All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time? That I am. We're talking about a fairly big case here. We are. That a lot of people have kept a close eye on over the years. It's the murders of the McStay family. Joseph McStay, his wife, summer. and their two young sons went missing in February 2010.

Their bodies were found in the California desert. Three years later, at first, it was thought that the family decided to travel to Mexico. But authorities found evidence pointing to someone close to Joseph. The mixed day family consisted of 40-year-old Joseph, 43-year-old summer, and their two boys, four-year-old Gianni, and three-year-old Joseph Jr. In the winter of 2009, the family moved to Fallbrook, California. Soon after they moved, they started renovating the house. And summer adopted a puppy.

Well, who doesn't love a puppy? If you don't, there's something wrong with your wiring. I got to be honest, because puppies are delightful. I find myself sometimes losing two or three hours just watching puppy or dog videos. on YouTube. Puppies are the only puppies and babies are the only thing that, uh, you're okay when they pee on you or around you. Yeah, because, uh, grownups and, and things like that, uh, doesn't go over so well. It does not. As you've learned at a number of, uh, all night parties. People do not like to be urinated on. Excuse me. Sorry. Both Summer and Joseph had good

relationships with their respective families, Joseph talked to his brother and his parents. Several times a week, he was also close with his 14-year-old son from his first marriage. Which sounds strange, right? You would just assume that you would be close to your 14-year-old son, but I know that there's a lot of times that just doesn't happen. Yeah, you're right. I mean, I think most people want to stay close, but it could be a very very contentious divorce. Things can get nasty. Things can be said about both sides.

Also, your ex-wife might move to a different state. Makes it tough to have a good relationship of that happening. Making it harder. Summer was a stay-at-home mom who was described as fiercely protective of her sons. She was also in regular contact with her family. Maybe like a super helicopter mom? Yeah, I don't know if fiercely protected. and helicopter mom are synonymous.

You know, to me, helicopter mom is you don't let them do anything on their own kind of deal. Fiercely protective just means you better not mess with my kids. Or I'll kick the shit out of you. Yeah. So I don't know. You could take that a couple of different ways. I think for me,

the important takeaway here is that both, Joseph and Summer, you know, relationships with their families. They were in regular contact with those families. So that's going to come into play. When someone goes missing.

I just had a weird vision in my head of a movie where I can't remember the name of the movie. Shocker. Give me alert. It's got Paul Rudd in it and him and his wife are getting ready to have their 40th birthday party.

Is it called This Is 40? That's it. with Paul Rudd. And I don't remember her name, but she was in 40-year-old Virgin. Yeah, she's actually married to the director or whatever. Yeah. And there was like some boy picking on her daughter, and she went to the school and got in his face and, like, just tore into him.

He started crying. That's what just kind of ran through my head. Fiercely protective. Yes. Joseph owned a successful decorative waterfall business called Earth-inspired products in early 2010. The family was still working on renovating their home, and overall, it seemed like they had a normal, happy life. The family celebrated Joseph Jr.'s third birthday on January 31st. Days later, on February 4th, 2010, the entire mixed-day family disappeared without

a trace. On the morning of February 4th, Summer talked to her sister, who had recently had a baby, and promised to come up for a visit soon. That afternoon, she used her cart to buy baby clothes. Summer's sister Tracy Russell recalled that summer was preoccupied with the home renovation. She and Joseph had already put $30,000 down on their home, and she just spent $4,000 on new floor. Well, renovating home is expensive. And you would know because you just finished up renovating one.

I did. And it was a real pain. and the you know what. I'm still feeling it burn. And not to mention the fact that you actually had to dole out money, which because it wasn't all at one time, it was in drips and drabs, I don't know how you survived it.

Apparently survived, but I made it. Summer had a friend come over to help paint on February 3rd. When he laughed, they agreed he would come back on Saturday, February 6th, which Summer confirmed over text. Joseph spoke to him. his father on the phone, but said he was in a hurry because he had to go to a lunch meeting.

Joseph and Summer texted each other around 5 p.m. At 8.29 p.m., Joseph's phone called his business associate Charles Chase Merritt in Rancho Cucamonga, which is one of the more fun cities to say. It is. You just like saying Cucamonga. I do. Merritt said he didn't answer the call because he was watching a moment. movie and this was Joseph's last known call.

Somebody else that doesn't answer a call from their partner when they call because they're watching a movie and it's me using my quotation thing in air. Quotation thing. Like air quotes? Yeah. So you do not believe me when I say I'm watching a movie. I do not. Okay.

Joseph and Chase met through Joseph's business. Chase was a fabricator. and Joseph worked with him to expand the custom side of the business. Chase did the welding and metalwork for the fountains. And Joseph was the primary businessman. What started as a business relationship soon turned into a close friendship. Joseph and Chase played paintball together and had dinner together a few nights each week. So obviously, you know, this information comes out right after the family goes missing.

But it's all important to kind of. to kind of try to establish timelines, not to mention the fact that, okay, some of this is evidence of planning for the future, right? This guy comes over to help paint. He's going to come back later on on another day. And to me,

all of that goes to, well, did this family just up and voluntarily leave? Or did something happen? to them. On February 10, 2010, Dan Kavanaugh, another associate who ran the website for Joseph's business called the San Diego County Sheriff's Department because he hadn't been able to reach Joseph for several days, which was highly unusual. Sheriff's deputies conducted a welfare check, but they didn't enter the home because there were no signs of foul play. On February 13,

Joseph's brother, Michael McStay, went to the home. entered through an open window to check the house. The family wasn't home, but their two dogs had been left in the backyard for days. There was a banana and a carton of eggs in the kitchen counter, both of which had gone bad, and bowls of popcorn in front of the TV. It looked as if the boys were watching TV and Summer or Joseph were going to cook eggs when they suddenly left the house. That's got to be a spooky feeling when you see that.

Well, to walk through the house and see these types of things. Yeah. Now, you know, the eggs, the bananas, the bowls of popcorn. Yeah, they jump out at me as a little strange. But what really hits me is leaving the dogs alone in the backyard. I mean, it feels like they had to leave quickly. Why else would you leave the dogs behind? Well, and quickly, but then it speaks to, was it voluntary?

Because let's face it, most people love their dogs as much as they love, you know, other people. If not more. If not more, very few dog owners would just abandon their dogs if they had any choice in the matter. there were paint cans and brushes in the living room most of their furniture was in storage and they appeared to be living out of suitcases due to the renovation which as you have talked about before it's kind of a really rough period it is it really is you don't have access to all your stuff you're maybe living in one room while another room gets done it's it's kind of tough so i get the whole out of a suitcase situation.

On February 15th, 2010, family members reported the McStays missing. They knew that while Joseph and Summer had occasionally gone away for a long weekend without telling anyone, they wouldn't leave home long term without notice. And again, all of this goes back to, you know, they were in regular contact with their family. We talked about the dogs and stuff. Yeah. could you just spur of the moment say, hey, we're going to take off for a weekend and not really call everyone you know and your family? Sure. A lot of people do that. Do most people go off for an extended

period of time and not let anyone in their family on both sides when both of them are close to their family know about it? No. Yeah, I would say by and large, the answer is no. The name. The neighbor who met Michael McStay at the house, went door to door to speak to neighbors. Though one had seen the family in over a week, neighbors were getting worried about the dogs, and they had started feeding them. The family's truck was parked in the driveway, but their Azuzu Trooper was missing. Investigators obtained critical surveillance footage from a neighbor's camera at 747 p.m. On February 4th, the camera captured the family's vehicle,

leaving the cul-de-sac, but the footage didn't show who was driving. Their car was found within hours. On February 8th, the vehicle was found in a parking lot near San Yucidro. It was an hour's drive from the McStay home, and the parking lot was a short walk from a pedestrian crossing into Mexico. So maybe a better lead now. Well, it's a lead for sure. But, I mean, I think with this information, you know, what would be the first thing that maybe police might think happened? That the family drove and parked and decided to walk into Mexico.

Yeah. I mean, I think that's a very natural conclusion, at least in the beginning. Two security guards first noticed the vehicle in the parking lot shortly after dark on February 8th. Because the hood was cold, they concluded it arrived. around 5 p.m. Security called a tow truck when the car was still there at 11 p.m. According to LA Times, there were car seats and toys in the back of the vehicle. The fingerprints all matched the missing family.

And I think that alone, you know, that kind of leans towards them parking and then walking into Mexico. Yeah. Now, obviously we know if there was foul play involved, somebody could have used. used gloves, right? They're for not leaving any prints behind. Lieutenant Dennis Brugos told the media on February 18th as quoted by NBC San Diego. At this point, we haven't found anything that would suggest that they would have any problems

with anyone or there was any involvement in narcotics trafficking or anything of that nature that would really point us in any particular direction. Act. Authorities searched the McStay home on February 19th. There were no signs of forced entry or violence, but it did seem like they left the home quickly. And you pointed that out earlier, you know, eggs left out, bowls of popcorn in front of the TV. It doesn't take that long to put eggs up.

No, it doesn't. So even if you all of a sudden need to go somewhere, that's about a third. second interaction to put those eggs up. And I was thinking about the dogs too, right? If you were going to leave the dogs because you had no choice, wouldn't you like put some bowls of water and food and, you know, all that type of stuff just so that you didn't have to worry about the dogs while you were away? Or just text the neighbor.

Yeah. And say, hey, we have got to run out. We have an emergency. can you please come over and feed the dog? Exactly. And most people would have no problem doing that. There was also no suspicious activity on the couple's bank accounts and credit cards. On February 22nd, authorities said they were baffled by the family's disappearance. Lieutenant Bruggo said, quite frankly, I've never seen a case like this before.

On February 23rd, San Diego County investigators, asked Interpol to be on the lookout for the family who could possibly be in Mexico. On the 25th, officials distributed flyers and asked Mexican authorities to search airports, bus stations, and other travel hubs. On March 5th, 2010, authorities released a video showing images of four people who could possibly be the mixed days walking into Mexico through a border gate. The video was dated February 8th around 7 p.m. the same day their vehicle was found. In the bottom left corner of the video, a man can be seen holding a child's hand.

Behind him is a woman holding another child's hand. And some family members said Summer owned a white jacket, similar to the one the woman was wearing in the video, but others weren't sure because of the poor quality of the footage. Mike McStay explained per NBC San Diego. It's very grainy, overshadowed. There's no definition to shape. So it doesn't sound like the video quality was very good at all. Yeah, I mean, if it's grainy and stuff, how can you really determine who it is?

But if it was them, what are they doing in Mexico? Good question. Now, could they just want to go Sitesi in Mexico? Possibly. But you couple that with the way that they left the house. the way they left their dogs behind. That's where it doesn't really add up. Right.

Not to mention the fact that they haven't told anyone, friends, family. That month, the public learned that on January 28, 2010, someone used the mixed days computer to search for information about travel to Mexico and passports for children. One search on the computer specifically asked, What documents do children need for traveling to Mexico? You know, I didn't realize how many people will actually walk over to Mexico until I started watching that series contraband.

And you see all these people walking back and forth between, you know, the United States and Mexico. So I'm going over there for prescriptions and medication and things or procedures, things like that. Things may be more nefarious. Have you not seen no country for old men? I did see that. Where he walks back and forth to Mexico. But this search on the computer, right?

This is in January before they go missing. I think it just kind of feeds in to that initial thought. That for whatever reason, they decided to up and go to Mexico. It's just a strange way of how they did it. Lieutenant Dennis Bruggo said about the January 28th searches, it's significant because it shows us at least there was some sort of planning, perhaps for going into Mexico. Other than it was out of character for this family to pick up and leave in the middle of home renovation and leaving perishable food out, there was nothing that pointed to criminal involvement in this case. And I think that's a very interesting statement.

all right it does seem as though there was some pre-planning about going to mexico now like you said the way they went about it very strange yeah but they don't have any evidence of any type of crime whatsoever right we mentioned it no forced entry i'm assuming there was no blood spatter in the house right that would have been kind of one of the main things pointed out so right now it's just a real big mystery as to what happened to the McStay family, the FBI joined the search on April 2, 2010. On May 13th, investigators traveled to El Rosario, Baja, Baja, California, after a waiter at a local restaurant described seeing a little boy with a birthmark on his forehead similar to Joseph Jr. This tip was given to authorities by Michael McStay. According to the San Diego,

Union Tribune, a family friend who traveled to Baja to distribute flyers, went into a restaurant where waiters said they recognized the family. On June 19th, the case was featured on America's Most Wanted. And we've talked about, especially in many of our unsolved cases, what a big boon that was. If you could get a case featured on America's Most Wanted, uh, You know, some of the unsolved mysteries, some of the big shows of the time. Yeah. That was a big deal. It put you in front of a lot of people.

Yeah, a lot of eyes watched America's Most Wanted back in the day. In November 2010, Joseph's father, Patrick McStey, who had been combing through Joseph's emails for leads, informed detectives of suspicious activity by his business partner, Chase Merritt. this lead turned into a dead end. Patrick also discovered that summer ordered a Spanish language program a few months before the disappearance. So learning Spanish, parked near the border.

Maybe there's something there. Looks like they walked into Mexico. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of things pointing to, you know, that being the case. Now, I think what starts to break that down is no activity in a person's business. bank account. I get it. Maybe your dollar goes a lot further in Mexico, but at some point, you're probably going to need to withdraw money. Yeah, and you would think that either you made a big withdrawal before you went or why you were over there, but their accounts aren't showing

that. Yeah, all of which would be easy to verify. Unfortunately, the McStay case went cold with no evidence leading to the family's whereabouts. Three years after they went missing in April 2013, the San Diego Sheriff's Department announced they had reached the consensus that the family moved to Mexico of their own free will. And I'll be honest with you, Gibbs, with everything that we talked about, that does seem to be the most likely scenario with the facts that we have. But if that's the case, why would you move without telling the family? family. Yeah, I mean, that, that is a big question. That plus not accessing any of your money, because here's the thing, as far as anybody knows, it's not like they're trying to run away

from something criminal. So what's the harm in accessing your bank account and letting the authorities know that, well, you're somewhere in Mexico. You're not wanted. Why wouldn't you place your dog somewhere? Right. All of those things. things are the against voluntarily going to Mexico. They're in that side. Later that year on November 11, 2013, a motorcyclist riding trails in the Mojave Desert near Victorville, California discovered a small human skull that appeared to belong to a child. Investigators found two graves containing multiple human remains. The remains, the remains, the remains. The remains, were found 50 yards from the nearest road.

They were only buried a foot or two deep and were primarily intact. A three-pound sledgehammer was also found at the site. Now, you and I talk about everyday people stumbling across dead bodies, remains, things like that. We talk about it all the time. It's not going to be a good day, right, when you find something like that. But finding a skull that you can so easily. tell belongs to a small child. That has to hit very hard. Sure. Not going to be easy. On November 15th, authorities announced that Summer and Joseph Mix Day were identified through

dental records and the other remains were believed to be their children. The cause of death was blunt force trauma. The family was found about 100 miles from their home. And then later that month, the California Department of Justice DNA lab confirmed that the other two victims were four-year-old Gianni and three-year-old Joseph Jr. Tragic news for sure. Yeah, tragic for everyone involved, friends, family. You know, I'm sure there were varying opinions on what was going on. Did they really leave and go to Mexico without telling any of us? But now this kind of proves, right, that they didn't.

They met with foul play. After the bodies were found, Chase Merritt did an interview with the Daily Mail. He claimed he didn't know anything that could help solve the case and said he was questioned by the police. He told the paper, he decided to speak out because he wanted to find the killer, saying, now things have changed. It's not about finding them. It's about finding the people who did this. and if anything I say can help jog someone's memory or offer some clue, then I'll be happy. Chase said he spent over an hour with Joseph on the day he went missing and was the last person

Joseph called. He also claimed he was the first one who went to the mixed day home, realized the family was missing, and helped relatives call the police. He told the detective from the beginning that Joseph would not have left without telling him. Joseph was his best friend, and they told each other everything. Chase explained that he didn't believe Joseph would take his children to Mexico. And the man in the border crossing footage was not him because Joseph had a very particular walk. It sounds strange, but he moved like a duck. And that man didn't.

There is absolutely no possibility that was him. I mean, people have a specific walk. A gate. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes. Now, moving like a duck is not the most flattering of descriptions. It's not. It's like you're waddling. But in this case, it helps if you believe what he's saying, because at that point, you're saying, well, then that's not who crossed over. That person was not Joseph and his family. Joseph used to regularly go to Mexico for surfing trips, but he stopped a few years. years earlier because he felt it was dangerous to go. Chase also said in any suggestion, he was involved

with the cartels and his nonsense. Joseph was the most honest person I had ever met, crossed his eyes and crossed his teeth. He wouldn't even litter, let alone get involved in anything more serious. Even the thought of being involved in drugs would have sent him into a fit of paranoia. There's no way he would have been caught up in crime. He was just not that kind of person. I see, that's something I could say of you. Yeah, I, you know, first of all, I have no desire to commit a crime. And then secondly, that would involve most likely leaving my house,

a heck of a lot of effort, just something I'm really not interested in. You are not. I got my hands full with this podcast. At the time of the disappearance, their business was doing better than ever. and they had just landed a lucrative contract in Saudi Arabia. They had lunch in Rancho Cucamonga. On February 4th, during their meeting, they talked about the Saudi Arabia contract. Joseph seemed excited.

Chase spoke to Joseph on the phone two or three times. While Joseph drove back to Fallbrook, they spoke for the last time around 6 p.m. Joseph did call Chase at 828, but he was watching a movie with his girlfriend, so he didn't answer. Chase explained, when you talk to Joseph, it takes about half an hour. So I thought I'd catch up with him in the morning. I didn't answer that call and I regret it to this day. He called Joseph several times a day over the next three or four days and couldn't get a hold of him. This was highly unusual because they normally talked six to eight times a day.

Oh, man. That would never happen with us. No. First of all, once a day is pushing it. twice a week is a better algorithm. Yeah. For me. On the fourth day, Chase drove to the house,

stopping to talk to Joseph's mother on the way. She hadn't heard from him either. And she called Michael, Joseph's brother, and suggested he meet him at the house. Chase said he drove to the house and Michael didn't call him that day. He found the dogs in the backyard and gave them food and water.

He opened up a shed in the backyard for the dog. because it was cold and wet. On the way home, he stopped again at Joseph's mother's house and told her to get Michael out there. And there was one thing that really jumped out at me about this. Your brother is missing, right? Joseph's missing. Your mom calls you and says, hey, can you get out and meet this guy at Joseph's house? I'm worried about that.

Right. I think you as a son and as a boy. brother are probably going to do that. Should be a sense of urgency. Yeah. So the fact that he doesn't show up that day, or at least in this version given by Chase, doesn't show up that day. That seems very strange to me.

On day seven, Chase called Joseph's mom and said she should call the sheriff's office. After the welfare check, Chase called Joseph's mother and told her to tell Michael to meet him at the house. They found an open window and Michael climbed inside and opened the door for him. As we know, the family was reported missing soon after Michael entered their home. Chase told the Daily Mail, he regretted not going to the police sooner. Well, yeah, how couldn't you be regretful? Yeah, because a lot of time has passed.

Yeah. After the sheriff's department finally went to the house, Chase was called in for questioning and he became a suspect. That's not surprising. No, I mean, he's a business partner, associate. He is one of the last individuals to either have seen or talk to Joseph on the phone. Okay, yeah, you're going to be looked at for sure. He told the Daily Mail about his criminal record. In 1978, he was convicted of burglary.

And in 1987, he was convicted of receiving stolen property. He served time for both convictions. Chase said nine out of ten people on this planet have got some kind of criminal background. Mine is 25 and 30 years old now. I'm 56. I'm an old man. I got into trouble here and there when I was a kid, but I don't have some long criminal history,

which is what people have tried to imply. I know what he's talking about. About being an old man. That too. Well, you know, he's only at this point a few years younger than you and just like four years older than me I don't consider myself an old man I could get in trouble right now if I really wanted to you good and you know I have yes and I'm not 100% sure that it's not ongoing well we shouldn't

be talking about this on the point I know you keep telling me that yeah chase also revealed that the lead detective asked him early on if he would take a lie detector test because he was convinced Chase knew where Joseph was. He declined at first. An attorney told him not to do it. But after talking with his girlfriend, he decided to do it so investigators would move on and focus on finding the family. After Chase took the polygraph, he was told there were a couple of inconsistencies. But that was just them trying to trick me into saying something. I didn't hear any more about it after that. Now, obviously, this is according to him. Yeah. After the bodies were found, Joseph's father did an interview stating he thought there were three prime suspects in the case, one of whom was a former

business partner with a criminal history. Chase said, he wasn't sure Joseph's father was talking about him because he had mentioned someone with an attempted murder charge. Well, that's what he did they look at? Attempted murder charge? I'd want to know a little bit more about that. But a former business partner where the criminal history does seem to match, right, Chase Merritt, the Daily Mail also reported that at one point, Summer came under suspicion because she went by aliases, had officially changed her name, and lied about her age.

Records from the family computer showed she sent Joseph angry and somewhat threatening emails about his son from his previous marriage. Chase said Summer could fly into a rage for small reasons, but he didn't think she would have harmed her family. He claimed Joseph told him things about the marriage like the fact Summer was jealous and didn't like anyone outside the family taking Joseph's time and attention. All right. Can we get back to somebody lying about their age?

Now, it depends on, you know, the context of it, if it's something where you shouldn't legally lie. But if not, my wife should be locked up because she is constantly either purposefully, but most often just gets confused about what her age is. She always thinks she's one year younger than what she actually is. I mean, in fairness to her, I've done that to myself. Yes. You've done a lot of stuff to yourself, but no, I think a lot of people do that, right? The year switches over. You kind of forget how old you are, especially when you get up there like we are. I actually think I've even made myself older than I am. Yeah, that wouldn't surprise me. But for a long time, like even well into her 40s, my wife always said she was 29. Now that was jokingly to me. She thought, okay, you know, I'm going to stay 29 forever. Chase also did an interview with CNN where he said he was definitely the last person to see

Joseph. And this comment to CNN really stood out to investigators. It should. I mean, when you hear someone say that, that I am definitely the last person that saw this individual. Well, how can that be? Or how do you know that? Yeah. You could possibly be the last person. But if they met with foul play, which it sure seems like they did after the bodies were found. Yeah. Well, then if you're the last person, then you're the killer. Exactly. I mean, there's no two ways around it. You just admit it to it. Sheriff Sergeant Eddie Bachman told CNBC's American greet. That was kind of a red flag for us because I don't know how anyone person could be so certain and say that he was the last person that saw his best friend alive

if he wasn't in fact the last person who saw him alive because I'm kind of echoing what we just said. Although the Chase Merritt lead was a dead end in the beginning stages of the investigation, he was questioned by the police and he did display some concerning behavior after the family's disappearance. Investigators spoke to Chase two weeks after the family went missing. And he was already talking about them in past tense. When asked about it, he said he had no idea why he did.

Chase also told investigators that on February 4th, 2010, he and Joseph met for lunch at a chick-fil-a in Rancho Cucamonga. He said they had to go over all kinds of money stuff related to the business. Chase also claimed that during their meeting, Joseph gave him physical copies of checks to pay for some of the projects they were working on. When investigators examined Joseph's QuickBooks accounts, they did find a series of checks, made out to Chase and other vendors Chase owed money to. The checks were dated February 4th.

But the metadata in the computer revealed the checks were actually written several days after the family disappeared and had been backdated. So getting into a little bit of motive here, potentially. Yeah. And also, it doesn't look good, right, for Chase at all. If he's saying one thing and then the evidence is pointing to the fact that, you know, these were written after the family disappeared, what kind of contradicts his statement? You know, he has these checks and he's talking about them in past tense.

Why do that? Well, this is really when Chase's story fell apart. And like you said, it really started to provide a motive. Investigators found evidence showing someone took control, a Joseph's checking account shortly before and after he disappeared. They wrote nine checks to Chase Merritt or those he owed money to, totaling almost $15,000. A QuickBooks customer service rep told the police he remembered a call from someone who identified

himself as Joseph McStay who wanted to delete his account and all information on the account. The caller didn't have the pass code to delete the account so the customer service rep couldn't carry out the request. Police determine the phone used to call customer service belonged to Chase Merritt, not Joseph McStay. So now we're really getting in some motive here. Well, and we're also stacking evidence, right? Up against Chase Merritt.

Then investigators found an email from Joseph dated February 1st stating that Chase owed him almost $43,000. Chunk of change. That's a good chunk of change, you know, especially when you're talking about motive for murder. Chase Merritt was arrested on November 5, 2014 and charged with $4,000. four counts of first-degree murder. Authorities revealed that cell phone records and forged checks linked him to the crime. Cell data placed chase in the desert where the bodies were found just two days after the family disappeared.

He grew up in the area and was familiar with the terrain. Authority said they believed the murders took place at the family home, but did not discuss a motive. Well, not too hard to at least theorize on what the motive might be, right? If he owes him $43,000 and he's stealing, you know, at least $15,000, okay, that would be a motive. It would be. Basically at that point, you got about $60,000 in robbery. Well, we talked earlier, too, about no forced entry at the home. You know, if these murders did occur at the home or the family was taken from the home,

there would be no forced entry with Chase Merritt. No, because he was a family friend. Yeah, he was known to the family. They would have obviously let him in. On the day of the arrest, investigators also said that the video from the border crossing did not appear to show the family. And they didn't think it was related to the mixed day case. Chase Merritt's trial began on January 7, 2019.

Prosecutors argued greed was the motive. Chase killed Joseph and his family because he'd been stealing from the company and was angry he was being cut out of the business. Days before the disappearance, Joseph accused Chase of owing him almost $43,000. Investigators have said that Merritt wrote multiple checks totaling more than $21,000 on Joseph's QuickBooks account after he went missing. Then deleted the electronic version of the checks after printing them to try to cover his tracks. Trying to be sneaky, but not sneaky enough.

Well, and that's what trips up a lot of people, right? You think this is going to cover things up. But electronically, sometimes that's harder to do than what you think. But it turns out he was also writing. and printing checks three days before his February 4th meeting with Joseph. Chase used the money to go on a gambling spree at different casinos. The prosecution told the jury that the family was bludgeoned with a sledgehammer. Joseph's skull was shattered.

Summer sustained a blow to the jaw. Both boys had skull fractures, but there were not enough remains of one of the boys to even determine how he was killed. So really sick guy, right? Taking out the mom, the dad, the kids. Well, we said a three-pound sledgehammer was found with the remains. I mean, how gruesome is that, you know, kind of video in your head. Yeah. Of someone killing an entire family with a sledgehammer. And these kids probably knew him as Uncle Chase. Yeah, probably. I mean, they were only, what,

three and four years old? Yeah. Probably, I'm sure they'd known him all their lives, their short lives. Supervising Deputy D.A. Sean Doherty said Chase desperately tried to cover his tracks after the murders, misled investigators,

talked in circles and played the victim. The prosecution presented a list of checks and phone calls to QuickBooks where Chase and Perkins impersonated Joseph. The defense presented calls and other evidence to suggest Chase and Joseph were working together to change the QuickBooks accounting system from online to desktop out of concern that their business associate Dan Kavanaugh might try to hack it.

Chase and Joseph apparently called him Hacker Dan. You know who you don't want working for you? A hacker. Someone with the nickname Hacker. Unless you're in the hacking. Unless you're in the hacking business. Yeah, I guess that's right. I try to hack your system once.

How'd that go? Well, I got in, but it was very disturbing, so I got out really quick. And it wasn't true crime stuff that I made it. That it was so disturbing. Like plunging headfirst into the dark web? I was like, oh, I got to get out of here quickly. The jury also heard that on February 6th, between 1046 a.m. and 1.30 p.m., Chase's phone ping cell towers in the desert where the bodies were found,

the defense said the analysis did not include two phone calls that Chase made, which put him in Victorville and not the burial site. And I did recently watch a pretty good documentary about this case, and a lot was made about this cell phone evidence and what, you know, it really showed. Prosecutors noted that for several days after, the disappearance, Chase's phone went dark for hours at a time. The shadow of a truck, consistent with one driven by merit, was captured by a security camera in the family's neighborhood.

Additionally, a DNA mixture, including a sample that matched Chase, was found on the gear shift and steering wheel of the family's car. The defense countered that the DNA could have transferred to the vehicle when Chase met with Joseph on February 4th. Chase's DNA was not found at the grave sites, but there was DNA belonging to other unidentified individuals. Okay. I mean, I think, you know, as the jury, if you're soaking all this in, some of this might hit home with you. Yeah, I get it. His DNA is on the, uh, on the family vehicle. But, you know, do you shake hands when the meeting is over? And then Joseph gets in the car,

therefore transferring Chase's DNA. I mean, that's a possibility. But this DNA belonging to other unidentified individuals. Now, we don't know exactly where this DNA was found, but is that something that might sow the seeds of reasonable doubts in the minds of a juror or multiple jurors? Sure. It could. The defense argued there was no physical evidence.

evidence linking Chase to the scene, alleging that if Chase had killed the family in their home, there would have been indications of a struggle and blood everywhere. And this is something that I did kind of think about. It's hard for me to believe that this family was killed inside their home, especially all four members being bludgeoned with a sledgehammer. Yeah. Because there would have been evidence everywhere. More likely that they were either led out of the home, tricked out of the home, or forced out of the home at gunpoint. And that the murder then happened somewhere offsite. The defense presented an alternate suspect that they said was overlooked, Dan Kavanaugh. Dan was broke in early 2010. And he was angry over being cut out of Joseph

and Chase's new custom fountain venture, Joseph agreed to pay Kavanaugh a $30,000 cut. After the family went missing, Kavanaugh stole almost $8,000 from the business account. Man, everybody's got their hand and that's cookie jar. Yeah, they do. The defense also noted that there was no boarding pass or ticket to verify the prosecution's assertion that he traveled to Hawaii

at the time the family went missing. So that must have been his. his alibi, right? I couldn't have done it. I was in Hawaii. In her testimony, Joseph's mother, Susan Blake, testified that she observed an argument between Chase Merritt and Dan Kavanaugh. She claimed Merritt wanted Kavanaugh to give him money. She said per KABC, they were yelling big time at each other, arguing and Dan was just not going to budge. It was scary. I literally walked out and said, if my son loses his business, so be it, I need to find my family. She gave Chase money to keep the business going, explaining at the time, I would do anything

to help my son, because I'm probably not in my right mind anyways at that time. In closing arguments, the prosecution acknowledged that it was still unknown where and when the family was killed, but they still had a case without answering those questions. and only the killer knew exactly what happened in the house. On June 10, 2019, Chase Merritt was found guilty of the four murders. On June 24th, a jury recommended the death penalty for the deaths of Summer and the children in life in prison with no parole for the murder of Joseph McStay. On January 21st, 2020, the judge upheld the jury's recommendation and sentenced

Chase Merritt to death for killing Summer Gianni and Joseph Jr. in life in prison for the murder of Joseph McStad. And I thought that was a little strange. Why death for three, but life for Joseph? Why not just death for all four? Not that it's going to make any difference, right? But it is strange. It is strange. Three desences versus four desences. Merritt said at the hearing per KRON4. I loved Joseph. He was a big part of my life and my family's life. I would never have hurt him in any way. I would have never raised my hand for a woman or child.

I did not do this thing. He claimed prosecutors framed him, accused witnesses of lying, and said the judge allowed it to happen. You know what judges don't like? Being accused of stuff like that. Being accused of running a shoddy courtroom. But as we wrap this one up, Gibbs, you know, you've got the cell phone data, the computer and financial records.

With all of that, prosecutors were able to build a compelling case, showing that Chase Merritt murdered and stole from the man he claimed was his best friend. Authorities believe some were and the children were killed because they could have identified merits. So it's one thing to be a killer. It's a whole other level, I believe, to be a killer that kills kids. Yeah, I mean, killing anyone is wrong. Absolutely.

But I agree with you. I mean, the heinous factor seems to go up, right? When you're talking about children, I mean, these were three and four year olds. Yeah, babies, really. But could they have identified Chase Merritt? Yeah. Sure. I think the answer to that is, yeah.

I think, you know, there are some people that are split on this case. There's some evidence and some pretty good evidence, compelling evidence against Chase Merritt. And obviously there was enough for the jury to convict him and to recommend three death sentences and one life sentence. But I don't think this is a case where you say, well, you know, there's the big smoking gun evidence. There's a bunch of things that kind of all add up to him most likely doing this.

But I think there are some people that see some reasonable doubt in this case. And I don't have a problem with that. No. I mean, I think that can happen in many cases. We've said it often, right? A lot of cases are really built on a mountain of circumstantial evidence. more so than just overwhelming physical evidence. Those cases are often more slam donkey type, right?

Yeah. These other ones, they're a little more nuanced and probably much tougher for the jury. But if he did do it, as the jury believes he did, I mean, what are we talking about here, Gibbs? 50 grand or so? yeah 60 grand something yeah along those lines not only to kill your best friend or one of your good friends but also a wife and mother and two very young children that's just hard to wrap your mind around yeah i mean you are a special kind of evil to do something like that yeah i agree with you but that's it for our episode on the McStay family murders.

We got a voicemail. You want to check that out? Let's hear it. Hey, Mike and Debbie. This is Christy. I am calling to wish my daughter who had introduced me to you guys back when she was in high school, but she is turning 21 at the end of this month. So I just wanted to call and celebrate her 21st birthday with you guys.

And I hope she hears this and gets embarrassed. Happy birthday, Samantha. Awesome. Happy birthday, Samantha. Happy birthday. Happy birthday. Happy, happy birthday to you, Samantha. Very cool, though.

It is cool. She's actually the one who, you know, turned her mom onto the show. Yeah. And it kind of reminds me of my daughters a little bit. You know, when we started this podcast, they were young. They were. And now I have one who just got, finished her graduate degree. my youngest is in her second year of college.

That's right. She's about ready to turn 21. So time flies, man. It does. And for you to get a singing happy birthday from Fergie. Put that in your pocket and take it with you. Exactly. But that is it for another episode of true crime all the time.

So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.