True Crime All The Time - The Murder of Cari Farver

Episode Date: January 6, 2025

Cari Farver went missing in November 2012 after spending the night at her new boyfriend’s house. Days after she disappeared, her boyfriend began receiving harassing and threatening text messages. Investigators believed Cari was not sending these messages and identified an unlikely suspect. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the murder of Cari Farver. Cari's family didn't believe she just disappeared. But her mother and son also received strange text messages, seemingly from Cari. Things continuously escalated until the police broke the case wide open. When they did, people were shocked at the person behind the mystery.You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 416 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. How are you? Hey, I'm doing good about you. I'm doing great. We just talked about it on Patreon. You know, we both had good holidays. You did.

You know, Christmas, New Year's. Yeah. And for me, you know, the New Year is always strange. It used to be when I was in school or, you know, working, I would always have trouble with the writing the new year. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, the date. Sure. I don't write dates that much anymore, you know, in my current line of work.

But I don't know what it is. You think about 2025, when you and I were kids, that would have been something you would have seen in a science fiction movie. Absolutely. You know, way into the future. And it was. It was 40-some years into the future when we were kids. But, yeah, here we are. Think about where we are now with smartphones and AI and all that other stuff.

Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. We had Kim Lechner. Hey, Kim. Matt. What's going on, Matt? Alicia Russ. Thanks, Alicia.

Melanie Shepherd. Hey, Melanie. Kyle. Good old Kyle. A.J. Cal sack. Well, hey, Cal sack. Ange C and the Big D.

Well, thanks. Ange C and that big D. Which on Patreon, you thought meant Detroit. I did. In all honesty. You corrected me. We had Levanna Meadow. What's going on, LeVana?

Matt Davis. Hey, Matt Davis. Rose. Oh, Rose. Tony. What up? You Tony. Tony.

Tony, Tony, Tony, Tony. And last but not least, Howard Horn jumped down to our highest level. Well, thanks, Howard. Yeah, appreciate all the new support. And then if we go back into the vault, this week, we selected Insane Kane. Well, thanks, Kane. Yeah, appreciate the continued support as well. We also had a really large PayPal donation from our very, very good friend, Melinda Wargaki.

Wargaki. Yeah. It's fun to say. Yeah, so she's just down the street. street from us, not that far. And such a great person comes to CrimeCon with her husband. I met him. He's a cool guy too.

So we appreciate it very much. So Gibbs right now, we have a brand new episode out on true crime all the time unsolved, where we're talking about the mad trapper of Rat River. Sounds like a good title for a movie. Yeah, it does, actually. But this was a Canadian fugitive who killed two. RCMP officers. The man was killed by a posse.

And they identified this guy. But investigators believe the identification was wrong. They believe it was an alias. So, you know, the mystery is really around, you know, who truly was the mad trapper. And it's, it's been a mystery that's endured for, you know, almost 100 years. Very interesting case. Yeah. Yeah.

make sure you check it out. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time? I am. We're talking about the murder of Carrie Farver. Carrie Farver went missing in November 2012. After spending the night at her new boyfriend's house, days after she disappeared, her boyfriend began receiving harassing and threatening text messages. Investigators came to believe Carrie was not actually sending these messages, and they, ultimately identified an unlikely suspect. So a little bit of mystery here to start out. I don't want to give away, right, who the killer is. But I definitely want to talk about Carrie Farver. Carrie was a single mother who worked as a computer programmer in Omaha, Nebraska.

Carrie's mother, Nancy Rainey, said she was diagnosed with depression in her late 20s, a few years after she had her son. Carrie was later diagnosed with bipolar disorder. She went to therapy and was prescribed medication. And there were some times when she stopped taking it, but it was said by her mother that in 2012, Carrie was in a good place and was working her dream job. So by all accounts, pretty happy. Yeah, I think she was doing good. I mean, she obviously experienced some, some mental health issues. Sure. She went to get treated.

She was prescribed medication. You know, a lot of people with bipolar disorder, you know, they have to take that medication. Oh, it's critical. And if they don't, you know, their behavior can change dramatically. I think I've said it before, but I used to work with a guy who was very open about his bipolar disorder. And you could tell day by day. whether or not he had taken his medication.

Yeah. And if I asked him about it, because I saw that, you know, he was acting a little differently, he would be very honest and say, yeah, I forgot to take it today. You're like, can you go home and take it, please? It was noticeable. Yeah. In October 2012, Kerry met Dave Krupa at the auto repair shop he managed in Omaha. Dave moved to the area earlier that year after recently separating from his long-term

girlfriend, Amy Flora. Dave and Amy had been together since 2000, and they had two children. They gradually grew apart over the years. Now, sources didn't really go into detail about to break up, but it seems as though it was fairly amicable. Amy moved to Omaha with the kids, and Dave moved closer to them. And I could see a lot of dads doing that. You know, you're in this relationship, you have kids together, the relationship fizzles out and you decide to break it off. Well, one of the individuals wants to move somewhere else with the kids. Yeah. Now, depending on how far that is, you can see a lot of people wanting to be closer.

They want to be able to see their kids. Of course they do. Yeah. They don't want to have to drive three hours or two states over. So, hey, going to make the decision to move closer to where they are so I can see them more often. So Dave moves and he signed up for some dating websites. The first person he met was a woman named Shanna Elizabeth Gullier, who goes by the nickname Liz. Dave and Liz started dating in the late spring or early summer of 2012.

During their first day, Liz told Dave that she was also a single mother of two kids who were similar in age to Dave's. Dave thought, you know, this is a woman who was down to earth, energetic, and full of life. She owned a cleaning company and was described as an animal lover. They were both interested in motorcycles, heavy metal, and sci-fi movies. So they have a lot of things in common. Yeah. I mean, it seems as though they do. did. Now, I think we've talked about this before. You know, I am not familiar with dating websites.

Because when I got married, the internet was just a little tiny baby. Yeah. It was definitely, if there was dating websites, I was not using them. Yeah. I think they've come a long way. I could see a guy like Dave, right? He moves to a new place. He's now single. And, Okay. He wants to meet someone. I guess that's the way you do it. Yeah. In the old days, you would just go to a bar or go to church. Or the grocery store. Or the grocery store or something like that and hope to run into somebody. According to Dave, he made it clear from the first date that he wasn't looking for anything serious. Got to set those expectations right from the beginning.

I don't think it's a bad thing. I mean, again, do you want to, lead someone on. And I would say definitely not. You know, if you're meeting someone for the first time, you're striking up a relationship and that person is looking for, you know, marriage, kids, and that's not you, you better make that clear right off the back. Yeah, probably a very important conversation to have. Yeah. Their relationship escalated. And they started sleeping together by the fourth date. but Dave was honest and he told Liz he still wanted to see other women. Okay. Well, you can't blame him for honesty.

No, it seems like he was very honest. I just always wonder how those conversations go. Now, I get it. We're not exclusive. Right. I can imagine there's some people who would be okay with that and many others who would not be. Like that might be a deal breaker. Oh, sure, it's a deal breaker for many.

Yeah, to many people. Several months later, he met Carrie Farver when she brought her car into his shop for maintenance. Dave told ABC about their first interaction. He said, when we looked at each other, there was a little spark. She's showing me something inside the vehicle and we're standing there and we're very close. And there was some tension. Now, I have not experienced that in a very long time. If I said anything different, my wife.

wife would literally kick my rear end. But I do remember meeting my wife for the very first time. And that's what it felt like. It was just like a spark. I don't know how else to describe it. And we've been together almost 30, well, more than 30 years. We'll have our 30 year anniversary this year. See, it's been good to you. It has. And she has too. A few weeks later, Dave found carries online dating profile. and asked her out, they hit it off during their first date on October 29, 2012. Dave invited Carrie to his apartment after dinner. Carrie told him that she wasn't looking for anything serious, which Dave liked, because

like we already said, he wasn't ready to be in a committed relationship. So again, he's found somebody on the same page as him. During their date, Liz Gawyer was blowing up Dave's phone. Now, at first, he ignored her. He then responded and said he was on a date and he couldn't answer her. Soon after they arrived at Dave's apartment, Liz started ringing the bell at the security door of Dave's building. Dave left Carrie in his apartment and went to speak to Liz.

She was crying and insisted Dave let her in so that she could get some of her belongings. He left Liz at the security door so he could explain what was going on to Carrie, Carrie decided to delete and pass by Liz on her way out. It was a brief encounter by all accounts. The women didn't even speak to each other. Yeah. Still kind of awkward, I think. I would say it's probably a very awkward situation for both women, especially

Carrie, I would think. Right. But even Dave probably felt, oh, I'm in the middle of, uh, you know what, exactly. So, I mean, it sounds to me, Gibbs, like, you know, Dave was meeting women online. He was going out on dates and, you know, maybe doing a little bit more. But when he met Carrie, I think he really liked her. And at that point, maybe things had cooled off with Liz some or he was seeing Carrie as superior to Liz. I don't know for sure. Yeah, maybe he just liked Carrie more. he was definitely still interested in Carrie, who lived over an hour away from Omaha in Macedonia, Iowa. When Kerry was given a challenging project at work, Dave offered to let her stay with him since her office was just around the corner from his house.

And Kerry agreed to this arrangement. So I think kind of a fortuitous situation. Fortuitous. Yeah, very close. But, you know, an hour's drive. I mean, that's nothing to sneeze at. I mean, if you really like someone, you're going to make that drive. Yeah, that's no big deal.

I know some people make much, much further drives to be with the people they care about. Yeah. But if you're given the opportunity, which is what sounds like happened here, you know, she gets this job. It's right around the corner from his apartment. So he's like, hey, why don't you just crash with me? and it'll save you a bunch of time. That's right. We also might hang out together.

Hang out, get closer, see where this thing goes. On November 9th or 10th, Carrie's vehicle was vandalized with spray paint while parked in Macedonia, Iowa. On the morning of November 13th, 2012, Dave got ready for work, gave Carrie a kiss and told her he'd see her later that evening. Carrie left for work after him.

Around mid-morning, Dave received a text from Kerry asking to move in together, which he thought was very strange because they'd already discussed having just a casual relationship. So, you know, yeah, he's offering to let her stay at his apartment, but it's not full time. Yeah. It's just, you know, when she drives in, goes to work. Now he's like, hmm, this is getting ramped up a little bit. moving in together is is essentially 24-7 other than when you're apart from work it's a big deal Dave said he didn't want to live together carry responded per ABC fine I hate you I'm dating someone else I don't want to see you anymore go away okay uh I mean I think if you're Dave

you're like what has changed all of a sudden we go from seemingly being being on the same page. Right. About a pretty casual relationship, even though you're staying over, you know, some nights during the week when you're working at your office to, let's move in together.

And when he says, no, all right, I hate you. I'm already seeing someone else anyway. F off, you know, all that stuff.

Pretty drastic change. It does seem that way. And I'm sure he had to be scratching his head saying, I don't know what's going on. Carrie wasn't at the apartment. When Dave got home from work, he never saw her again. But the angry texts continued. On November 15th, Carrie started blowing up Dave's phone.

According to ABC, one text said, I hate you. You've ruined my life. You're a terrible person. Dave said he was relieved and thought that he had, quote, dodged a bullet. Exactly what I was thinking. Well, I think if you put yourself in Dave's perspective, you know, this doesn't seem like the person you thought Kerry was. Right. She's now, you know, ramp things up to a level that you didn't believe they were going to go to, not only about, you know, trying to move in together very quickly, but then becoming hateful pretty quickly as well.

Yeah, I'm sure he's thinking, man, what if we do? did move in together and all of a sudden this personality came out or got married or, you know, had children or whatever it was. I'd be stuck. Carrie's mother, Nancy Rainey had also been receiving strange texts from Carrie. Carrie told her she got a new job in Kansas. Nancy tried to call, but Carrie didn't answer. Strange.

Yeah, I think definitely strange. You know, we talked about it from Dave's perspective, but now you're talking about it from the perspective of Kerry's mother. You know, I don't know how often they talked. You know, I always kind of equate it to how often my wife talks to her mother, which is at least once a day, sometimes multiple times a day. I know. And it's never just text messages.

Yeah. You know, they're speaking together on the phone. I'm always like, what could somebody say to another person that many times? day. Yeah, you and I like each other, but we don't talk every single day. No, we're good. On November 15th, 2012, Carrie taxed her employers and told them she was quitting and moving to Texas. On the 16th, Nancy reported Carrie missing after she missed a family wedding and failed to pick up her son. Critical thing right there. Yeah, I mean, you and I talk about this a lot, especially in the unsolved episodes where, you know, at what point in time does a family member, you know,

really start to get worried, right? There's worry that sets in initially, but there's always something that kind of cements it in a person's mind. Right. That something really is going on to the point where they need to, you know, file a missing person's report. And, you know, missing a family wedding is one thing. But not picking up your son? That's huge. That is, that's a big deal. And I'm sure her mother knew. This wasn't her daughter. This was not like her. When following the report, Nancy mentioned that Carrie had bipolar disorder and was on medication. According to Nancy, the police told her that sometimes people behave erratically. When they stopped taking their medication, she felt like they weren't taking her report seriously.

Well, maybe they weren't. When she mentioned that she was taking medication, maybe they just assumed she's all for meds. And that's what's causing, you know, this type of behavior. And there's no doubt that it could, right, in some situations. But, you know, I do think a lot of times

the police get in trouble, making too many assumptions. You know, we all know and have talked about the old kind of police line years and years ago, which was somebody goes missing, even those people under 18 years of age. And they're like, you know, they'll be back. They just, they're blowing off steam or, or, or, or something like that. Now, Dave Krupa continued receiving texts and emails over the next two years. He would receive tens of thousands of messages.

That is bizarre. Yeah. I mean, I know we've talked about it. I don't do a lot of texting and emailing outside of work, right, for the podcast. I text friends and family sometimes, but tens of thousands. That seems like a lot to me. I think that would require a new email and a new phone and abandon the old stuff. But the different number?

Yeah. And it wasn't just the number of texts. But they also became increasingly threatening over time. According to ABC, Carrie wrote things like, I will do what I can to make you suffer. We belong together, Dave. My favorite thing to do is stand outside and stare at you. I hate you so much that I want to drive a knife in your heart.

I will destroy your life and take your happiness. So, I mean, you know, there's a stalkerish vibe there, for sure. Sure. But then there's also a threatening vibe when you say, I hate you so much, I want to drive a knife in your heart. It also makes you wondering, and I've said this before, oh, well, you know what, I will take you back.

Yes. Now that you've said all that, I mean, I've got to take you back because you're just proving to me how much you love me. Yeah, exactly. By saying these very. very outlandish and threatening things. Dave did ultimately change his phone number and email address multiple times, but the messages still kept coming.

Okay. Would you be a little freaked out by that? Absolutely. How is this person, you know, getting my new phone number? How are they getting my new email? And, you know, this is a person that I went out on what,

X number of dates. She crashed over it. my place however many times. This was not a nine-year love affair. No. And she caught me cheating and is very upset. If you think about it from his perspective, this would have to be just unbelievably strange. And that's where I think it comes in where he thinks, wow, I really dodged the bullet.

Yeah. Now he's like, I don't know how much did I really dodge? Because I'm paying the price for it. I'm still living through it. Both Dave and the police. believed Kerry was sending these messages. Dave knew he was being stopped. He told ABC on one specific occasion.

I was sitting in my lazy boy with my feet up, watching TV, trying to relax, and it's night time. And I get a text saying, I see you. You're sitting in your chair with your feet propped up wearing a blue shirt. And those things were all true. Yeah, right there, I think I would lose my, you know what. Well, that's going to be a scary thing to anyone, especially when you believe the person sending these has also threatened you. Right. With a knife in your heart?

Yeah. Carrie was also allegedly sending threatening messages to Liz Gawley. Liz told Dave, she was receiving harassing texts and emails. One day in November 2012, she called him and said her garage had been vandalized. someone spray painted horror from Dave on the inside. Liz reported this incident to the police. So, you know, it's not just Dave. Liz is getting these strange and sometimes threatening texts and emails,

but, you know, she's also having her home vandalized. Yeah, your personal space has been invaded. And somebody wrote, you know, something very demeaning about. you. Meanwhile, Carrie Farver missed her birthday. She missed her son's birthday, Thanksgiving, and even her father's funeral. Which would be very hard to understand. Miss her birthday okay. Miss her son's birthday and miss her dad's funeral. Well, I mean, to me, if that was, you know, one of my family members, I'm really looking at it from one of two angles. Either This person is really upset and wants nothing to do with not only us,

but she doesn't even want anything to do with her son. Yeah. Maybe that's because she's not taking her medication. I don't know. Or the alternative is something's happened to her. And we just don't know what it is. Well, that's a good point, right? Because, yeah, she missed her son's birthday,

but she hasn't been with her son this whole time. Yeah. So it's not just missing his birthday. She's abandoned him. Nancy Rainey received text from her daughter and pleaded with her to call. The text to Nancy were cruel, calling her a bad, controlling mother. They were also full of grammar and spelling errors, which wasn't like Carrie. And I know you and I have talked about this in other cases.

When you communicate with someone either on the phone or especially, especially in texts or emails, you learn over time how that person talks. Yeah. And let's focus in on just written communication because that's what we're talking about here. You know if a person abbreviates everything. You know, if they spell words correctly. You know, I know when I get a text from you, there are going to be some spelling errors. There are also going to be some words.

words that make absolutely no sense. According to you. But they're coming from you. It says Gibby on the phone. And so I'm assuming these are you. Now, if I got a text that was talking about, you know, astrophysics and just stuff way above your pay grade, I'm going to have to start to question it.

If there's equations in there, there's words that I know for a fact, you have no idea not only what they mean, but also how they're spelled. You're like, either somebody got his phone or he's been drinking a lot. Or he took one of those pills like in that movie Limitless and now has unlocked like 70% of his brain. That'd be awesome. And just like you, I know if I receive a text from you with more than one word, it's not

you. Huh, that's weird. He wrote a whole paragraph. That's not Mike. Who is this? But let's also talk about Nancy, right? This is rough coming from your daughter. You're already worried about her. And now she's sending messages calling you a bad mother. Carrie's son, Max, also received messages from her saying she was going to pick him up, but she never did. Now, you talk about what kind of mom would just abandon their child, not many. It does happen, but not many. What kind of mom is going to go an extended period of time without seeing their child and then repeatedly tell them they're going to pick them up and then never do it.

It's cruel. It is cruel. In January 2013, Dave was returning home from work and noticed a familiar vehicle, parked near his apartment. He realized it was Kerry's Ford. floor. Dave took a picture of the license plate and sent it to the police. When the police searched the car, they found one fingerprint on a mint container. It didn't match Carrie's fingerprints and there were no matches in a national database. Five months after Carrie went missing,

a man called Nancy Rainey to tell her he saw Carrie at a homeless shelter and she wanted her mother to pick her up. Nancy and investigators went to the shelter. And, Nancy and investigators went to the shelter only to learn Kerry had never been there. Okay. So who is this guy? Was he put up to this by someone else? Did he do something to carry? Or is this one of those situations Gibbs where someone learns about someone being missing and they just want to mess with the family? Well, unfortunately, we know that happens. It does happen. Sick. Six months after her disappearance, Carrie's son, Max, messaged her on faith. Facebook and received a reply. He asked Kerry to answer three questions to prove she was his mother,

his middle name, the name of their first dog, and the name of his best friend. She never responded. It's actually really smart on the part of Matt. Yeah, I'm tired of you towing with me. I want to know if you actually are my mom. Dave and Liz were still dating on and off and they were both still receiving hostile texts. it was common for their phones to get text and emails while they were together. On one occasion, Dave received an email from Carrie, threatening to kill Liz. The email included a photo of a woman tied up in the trunk of a car. So she sent something to Dave saying, hey, I'm going to put a knife through your heart, sit something to Liz threatening to kill her and included a picture of a woman tied up in the trunk of a car.

This is very threatening stuff. Yeah, I mean, you have to be alarmed. This is not just, you know, hey, I'm going to kick your ass. No. This is, I'm going to want to kill you. Yeah. This is, I need to go see the authorities and make sure they're aware. And it went a step further.

Carrie also sent Dave a link to a fake obituary for Liz. Liz and Dave broke up in early August 2013. And I can understand why that relationship. might have been a little tough to keep going. You know, if you think that there is someone out there who, you know, is very upset at Dave and maybe Liz, by extension, because she's with Dave, okay, maybe we need to go our separate ways. Yeah, you don't want harm to come to whoever you're dating at that time either. on August 17th, Liz's house caught on fire, killing two dogs, a cat and a snake.

Wow. Yeah, I mean, that's horrible. I mean, there were no people that were injured, but multiple animals were killed. Liz believed Carrie was responsible. And Dave and Liz both received emails from her claiming responsibility for the fire. So not too hard, right, to think that she was responsible. if she's sending emails saying, yeah, I did that. They became so paranoid that he purchased a gun for personal protection.

Well, when your ex-girlfriend's house catches on fire and you have all these threatening messages coming at you, you have to find a way to protect yourself. You have to start thinking about your personal safety for sure. I mean, you know, if I didn't already own a gun, you know, I'm going out and getting one as soon as I get that text that says, hey, you're in your lazy boy with your feet up, wearing a blue shirt. That would be enough to freak me out.

At one point, Dave's auto shop was vandalized. In January 2014, Dave had a woman over at his apartment. She saw him receive multiple messages and heard someone pulling on the front door handle. When the two of them were laying in bed that night, someone threw a brick through the window. Well, that gets you going, won't it?

Well, and it's also going to make you rethink this relationship, especially if it's very, very new. Okay, you're a great guy, but I ain't putting up with this BS. Yeah, you're just not worth all that. There's plenty of other guys out there who are not being stalked, who do not have bricks being thrown into their window at night. by 2014, Dave's ex-girlfriend, Amy Flora, and his children were receiving threatening messages. I mean, this is just an escalation gives of epic proportions.

You know, it was one thing to think that Carrie was sending Dave messages, to think that she was sending Liz messages. But now his ex-girlfriend and his kids is Gary. I mean, you're never going to be okay with anybody messing with your kids. No, no, absolutely not. And even though they're exes, I'm sure he still had feelings towards Amy. I mean, let's face it, she was the mother of his children. He doesn't want to see anything happen to her either. In the spring of 2015, detectives Ryan Avis and Jim Doty from the Pottawatomie County Sheriff's

Office in Iowa volunteered to take on the case to try to solve it. Jim Doty decided to work the case as if Kerry were dead. And Ryan Avis worked the case as if she were still alive. Pretty smart way to do that. No, it seems like a very inventive way to do it. They went through the original case file and noticed there had been no activity in Carrie's bank account the entire time she'd been missing. And I'm telling you Gibbs, you know, I harp on this in a lot of unsoling.

cases. You know, is it possible for someone to kind of go off the grid and just leave behind everything, not access any of their bank accounts or anything like that? Yes, technically it is possible, but it can't be that easy. Have its challenges. Yeah, absolutely. Detective Avis couldn't find any evidence to prove Carrie was still alive. Liz Gawyer stuck out to Detective Jim Doty. She and Carrie didn't really know each other, but Liz's name was in many police reports connected to the case, which made her a person of interest. The team asked a digital forensics administrator to get involved. Investigator Anthony Kava told ABC, we knew these messages don't seem to really be coming from Carrie Farver.

Carrie or the imposter who was pretending to be Carrie sent Dave about 15,000 email messages over a three-year span. It might have been upwards of 25,000 or 50,000 texts in all. So whoever was pretending to be Carrie got more and more sophisticated in what they were doing to try to hide their IP address, to try to hide their real identity. So many text messages. I get it. It's over three years, but I feel like your phone would just be blowing up constant.

Yeah. Non-stop. And for me, that would be very unnerving to have to check your phone every time you hear the little ding. Yeah. Go to bed, wake up, and it says, you have 1,200. Yeah, that would be. Yeah, that would be. Messages or something.

Overwhelming for me. Back in 2013, Dave. and Liz agreed to have the content of their phones downloaded. Liz's phone data included a photo of Kerry's vehicle. The metadata showed the picture was taken on December 24, 2012, before the vehicle was found, which meant Liz knew where was before the police did. The data also indicated that on November 6th and 7th of 2012, Liz made six calls to Carrie's home landline using the

Star 67 prefix to disguise the number. That's interesting. Yeah, I mean, I think if you're the detectives, your ears got to perk up at that, right? What does this mean? Detectives wondered why Liz would call Carrie six times when she said

she only met her once in passing. Investigators also found the photo of the woman who was tied up, which was emailed to Dave from Carrie. However, this photo was taken by Liz's phone. Liz's phone data included a video

that was uploaded to YouTube on the account Farver. The video showed an apartment complex that looked like Dave Kruppin. So, I mean, I think at this point, detectives got to be wondering, right? What is going on with Liz? Could she be behind, you know,

some of the stuff that's been going on? The IP address used to access the account, belonged to a guy named Todd Butterball, who happened to be a man Liz had been seeing since September 2010. Todd and Liz were together until September 2015. He thought that they were exclusive, but she was seeing Dave during their relationship. He was probably like,

all right, I'm out of here. Yeah, once he found that out, I'm sure. Todd helped Liz with her bills, helped her buy a car, and let her and her kids move in with him. at one point. Todd also received messages from Carrie Farver in January 2013. She said she was friends with Liz and Liz had given her his number in case of an emergency. When Todd asked Liz about Carrie, she said they were friends. And again, this is so strange because to everyone else, these were two people that met briefly in passing one time. Right. At Dave's apartment.

So how can she be friends? Todd didn't learn about Dave Krupa until Liz's phone data was downloaded. Liz told him she dated Dave before she met him. And they remained friends. All the, uh, we're just friends line. We're just friends. Used by many,

many cheaters over the year. Yeah. During the two years Todd and Liz lived together from July 2013 to the end of 2015, Liz never mentioned. that she was being harassed by Carrie. Now, how strange would that be? I mean, we've talked about the level of harassment here, the level of text, emails.

You wouldn't confide in your partner that that was going on? You'd think you would. Liz became a person of interest and investigators started believing. She was posing as Carrie. As mentioned by Anthony Kava earlier, Liz did a pretty decent job hiding her trail.

She used applications and digital proxies to conceal her IP addresses, which made it more difficult to trace her online and phone activity to her home. Kava told A&E, for instance, she was using a website that allowed her to send emails and text messages on a certain day and time when she was with Dave Krupa. They would both receive messages at the same time. time from Kerry. Now, why is that important? Well, I think it works great, right? Because now it makes it look like Carrie sent it them. Yeah, I mean, if you and I are out to dinner, we're sitting across from each other, we're eating some wings, we're drinking a beer, and our phones go off at the same time. Right. Pretty obvious that neither one of us sent that to the other. Because our phones are

sitting there on the table. Yeah. You didn't see me type anything in. I didn't see you type anything in. Pretty sneaky. It is. But that whole time, you know what I'm thinking at that table? Why is Ferguson even out of his basement? Well, that's a good thought, too. But I'm like, who's paying for this dinner?

Liz had also set up more than two dozen fake email addresses with some variation of Kerry's name. Kava estimated that Liz spent 40 to 50 hours a week impersonating Carrie. Talk about upset. session. 40 to 50 hours a week. Wow. You could get a second full-time job. Yeah. Not that anyone would want one, but if you had to have one, Kava developed a program to narrow down a list of top IP addresses linked to the threatening emails. One of the IP addresses traced back to Liz's home that burned down in August 2013. The detective spoke to Nancy Rainey in May 2015. This was the first time.

Someone told her they did not think Carrie left of her own free will. And that had to be a very emotional conversation. Because I don't think Nancy ever thought Carrie left of her own free will. No. So to hear that kind of corroboration that now the police are believing that might be the case as well. It had to be a big deal for her. I think so.

What a relief that would have been. To have somebody on your side now. Well, and also maybe investigating the case through that lens would make a big difference. But Nancy also provided a new piece of information. In 2012, she received a text from Carrie saying she sold all her furniture. Carrie asked her mother to let the buyer. into her house to pick it up. Afterwards, she received a photo of a check that was made out to Kerry and signed by

Shanna Gawyer. Okay. So this further linked Liz to the disappearance. The 2015 investigative team also determined that the fingerprint found in Carrie's vehicle matched Liz Gawyer. You know who's not looking good right now? Liz. Liz Gawyer. On December 4th, 2015, Liz walked into the Pottawatomie County Sheriff's Office and said she was there to file a harassment complaint against Amy Flora, Dave's ex. After she left the station, Detective Ryan Davis drove to her house to interview her, saying it was about the complaint.

Liz told Davis she thought Amy Flora was sending the messages and pretending to be. carry. So Ava's asked if he could download her phone data. A second time to review the messages, Liz agreed during their conversation. Liz mentioned she knew Dave's gun was missing and thought that Amy stole it. She identified the exact type of gun he had, but was pretty vague when asked further questions. Dave had reported his gun stolen during the investigation. On December 5, 2015, Soon after Dave and Liz decided to take another break, Liz was shot in the leg while walking alone at night in the Big Lake Park in Council Bluffs, Iowa.

Liz said she drove to the park at 6 p.m. and parked near a walking trail. She walked for a short distance and sat down on a bench. While she was sitting, a female voice ordered her to lie down and made a vulgar comment, the suspect didn't demand anything from her and made no further statements before shooting her. Liz said she didn't know who the shooter was, but suspected it was Amy Flora. And again, you know, Amy was Dave's ex, X, right?

The mother of his children, they had not been together for some time. Right. I mean, is it out of the question that she could be upset about, you know, the new person in Dave's life. No, not out of the question. But if she still wanted Dave, she probably wouldn't have left. You know, it just doesn't seem like a situation where, you know, she leaves the relationship. And then all of a sudden, she's so jealous she's going to shoot this woman that's in his life. It's unlikely. It's not impossible. Right. That's why I say that. I never rule anything out. investigators determine Liz most likely shot herself.

Amy Flora was cleared the evening of the shooting. So pretty quickly, right? They realized it wasn't her. Liz was brought in for another interview two weeks after she was shot. She continued pushing for the detectives to look at Amy Flora, unaware at this point that she was the main suspect. So, you know, she's doing all of these things, including shooting herself in the leg, right, to try to get this attention off of her.

And it sounds like mainly onto Dave's ex, Amy Flora, that's a pretty big step to take, shooting yourself in the leg. That's dedication right there. Now, you know, you want to fake an email or a text or, you know, throw a brick through your own window, maybe spray paint a vulgar comment on your own house. That's one thing. Sure. But you're really taking a step further when you shoot yourself to make it look as

though someone's out to get you. But if you went to extreme with something earlier, like murdering somebody. Then you would take some extreme steps to try to not get caught. Yeah. detectives, Doty and Avis, told Liz they believed her, and they wanted her help in criminating Amy. They asked Liz to reach out to Amy to see if she would tell her anything about Carrie. Almost immediately, Liz fabricated emails. She claimed were from Amy.

In these emails, Amy confessed to the shooting. The detectives continued pushing Liz to ask Amy for details about Carrie's murder. A few days later. Liz forwarded an email allegedly from Amy, admitting she stabbed Carrie three or four times and put her body in a garbage bag. Now, as time passed, Liz became upset that Amy had not been arrested. She's providing them this valuable information. Gibbs, right, incriminating Amy Flores.

Why have the police not, you know, arrested her? Detective Jim Doty told Liz, they needed more. information from Amy that only the killer would know. And it was just within hours of this conversation that Liz Ford in more confession emails, allegedly from Amy, mentioning that Carrie was stabbed to death in her own vehicle. Conveniently, they get this email. Yeah. All of it's very convenient.

But, you know, as you look at what the detectives are doing, number one, they're trying to catch Liz in a trap, right? They already suspect her, but they're playing her, essentially. By saying, yeah, we believe you. We think Amy did it. We just need your help. But what are they really getting Liz to do?

Provide details about the murder that only the killer would know. Once it's proven that Liz is sending these emails, that it pretty much shows that Amy's not the killer. It's Liz. Yeah, I mean, I think they did a really kind of masterful job of playing her because she doesn't know what they know. And she's giving them information that she probably wouldn't if she thought they were looking

at her as the killer. Investigators decided to go back and search Carrie's car for a third time on February 18, 2016. This time, they pulled a fabric seat cover off the passengers. seat and found a red stain, which was determined to be Carrie's blood. Because the murder most likely occurred in Omaha, local detective Dave Schneider brought Liz in for questioning and confronted her with all the evidence against her. Liz denied knowing anything about Carrie's murder and said she didn't even have internet.

First of all, this is not the early 1990. No. or the mid-1990s. This is the late 2010. How many people did not have internet at that point in time? During the interrogation, detectives Jim Doty and Ryan Davis searched Liz's apartment. They found some of Carrie's belongings,

including her digital camera and camcorder two days before she disappeared. Carrie used the camcorder to record a video of herself talking about how someone vandalized her car. According to court documents, other items found in Liz's possession included LG cell phones, a black and white floral shower curtain that matched the description of the one

purchased at the discount store with Farver's debit card on November 16th, 2012. And, you know, this is something that you and I go back and forth about in many episodes. someone who has committed, you know, a horrible crime, then decides to just keep a whole bunch of incriminating evidence

lying around their place. I can never figure that out. No, no, me neither. I mean, it's hard to prove this is not Carrie's camcorder. There's a video of her on there.

Yeah. It just, it blows my mind. On December 22nd, 2016. Liz was arrested and charged with first degree murder. You know, it took a while for Liz to really fully be on the radar. And then once she was, the police were really tactful about, you know, how they went about gathering their evidence.

Yeah. They were pretty smart about it. They are. And they took their time, but I think it was well worth it. On January 18th, 2017, Liz was ordered to stand trial. for murder. A week later, Liz pleaded not guilty and waived her right to a jury trial. The defense believed the judge would move through the evidence faster and wouldn't be distracted by claims that Liz impersonated Carrie. The defense argued there was no evidence Carrie was dead,

which you know is going to be a defense argument in a nobody case. Sure. There's no way that the defense cannot make that argument. They have to. It has to come up. A few months before trial, Dave Krupa remembered he had a tablet in storage and he gave it to investigators. Inside the tablet was an SD card that had been in Liz's phone around the time of Carrie's disappearance. The card contained thousands of deleted images. One photo showed a human foot with a tattoo of the Chinese character for the word mother.

and Carrie's mother Nancy Rainey confirmed that Carrie had that tattoo. A medical examiner viewed the image and determined the foot did belong to a deceased person. And that is huge, right? The defense is saying, well, how do you even know that Carrie Farver is no longer a lot? Now all of a sudden, Liz apparently has pictures of Carrie Farver's foot. but after she was deceased. Which if you're the defense, you're gone, oh shit. But again, just because you delete something, right?

How many times have we talked about this? It doesn't mean that it's gone forever. That's true. It doesn't mean that it can't be recovered sometimes. There's certain things you have to do to make sure that it's actually deleted. Well, non-recoverable. But here's my thing. Why did Liz feel the need to take these pictures in the first place?

Well, maybe she's kind of like some of the serial killers we talk about. They need to have some reminder slash trophy. It could be. It's not smart, though. It never is. It's not. I mean, obviously murder is not smart, but also keeping a bunch of different things that conclusively prove you're the killer is.

Not a smart thing to do. And clearly it bit her in the ass. Liz Gawyer's non-jury trial started on May 10th, 2017. The prosecution argued that Carrie was murdered by Liz. Her motive was jealousy over Dave Krupa. Liz confessed to the murder when she was impersonating Amy Flora via email. She wrote that she stabbed Carrie and burned her body, wrapped her remains on a tarp, and put them in the,

the garbage. The defense countered that the evidence wasn't enough to support a murder conviction, especially because Kerry's body had never been found. They noted that at one point, Liz was considered a victim too. And I don't think there's any doubt about that. Liz was considered a victim, right? Her house burned out. Yeah. She was allegedly receiving all of these, you know, threatening tax and emails, much like Dave was. I think I remember seeing in the research that she even moved in with Dave after her house burned down, which might have been, you know, a little convenient. She did a really good job at trying to make it look like.

She was being stalked and under attack by Carrie. However, the evidence against her was overwhelming. On May 24, 2017, Liz Gawyer was found guilty. of first degree murder. Judge Timothy Byrne said, per W-O-W-T, Carrie Farver did not voluntarily disappear and drop off the face of the earth. Very sadly, she was murdered.

The court finds beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant intentionally killed Carrie Farver with deliberate and premeditated mouths. So, you know, I didn't talk about it when we started talking about the trial, but, you know, waiving your right to a jury trial and taking your chances with the judge. I can see in some scenarios why that might make sense. I mean, I'm assuming her defense thought, hey, this is our best route.

Maybe the jury gets prejudiced based on, you know, the sending of the text and the email so much that nothing else matters. ultimately it really didn't matter. The judge saw through everything. And I think it'd be hard not to see through it all. Yeah, I think a jury would have come to the same conclusion. On August 15th, 2017, Liz Gawyer was sentenced to life in prison for murder and 18 to 20 years for arson. And it did come out, Gibbs, that Liz Gawyer burned down her own house, killing her pets. Yeah, it's sick.

You know, you talk about taking this thing as far as it can go. Not only did you murder a woman in the course of trying to make it look like you didn't, you burned your own house down and killed your pets. And at one point shot yourself. And shot yourself. Liz's appeal was denied on November 9th, 2018. Dave Krupa has kept a pretty low profile in recent years. and lives in Nebraska with his girlfriend.

I bet he has kept a little profile. Yeah. I mean, it's not something that you really want to advertise. He didn't do anything wrong, really. But now he did appear in the 2024 documentary, lover, stocker, killer, and said he felt some responsibility. Because according to him,

a lot of bad things happened to good people, all because of a series of events that I'm at the center of. I'm very sorry for what happened. If I hadn't met Carrie, she wouldn't have met Liz, and this all wouldn't have happened. If I'd have known the choice was this craziness or tell Carrie I'm not interested. I would have told Carrie I'm not interested. But you don't get that choice. And he's right.

Yeah, he's absolutely right. Now, you and I both watched this documentary. It was very good. Yeah. And I knew from the time I saw it that I wanted to cover this case. And, you know, I think as does happen in a lot of these situations, you know, the people involved, and I'm speaking specifically here about Dave, you know, he's going to feel guilt. He's going to feel remorse.

I mean, you heard him say it. If I hadn't met Kerry, she would have never died. Right. But he's in no way responsible for that. And he probably deep down knows it. But it doesn't change the fact that, you know, there's guilt there that probably eats at him. Yeah, I'm sure it bugs him. You know, it's somebody that was nice to him, that he may had some feelings for.

I think he did. Yeah. And he also realizes that because of all this stuff going on, Carrie's son no longer has a mom. And him being a parent, he gets that. Yeah. No, absolutely. But this was Liz Gawleyer and Liz Gawyer alone.

Absolutely. I mean, he had nothing to do. And there's no way he could have known that she was going to, you know, take this avenue. It's just jealousy to the extreme. right? Oh my gosh. It's to the extreme for sure. You know, this was a pretty lengthy complex case, but investigators have said they're glad. They were able to restore Kerry Farver's reputation, which had been tarnished due to Liz's actions. I mean, really if you think about it,

you know, Carrie Farver lost her life, which is absolutely tragic. But if they don't solve this mystery, then not only is she dead and no one knows for sure, but she's also thought of as a stalker and a harasser. On top of that, she's a mother who abandoned her son and wants nothing to do with, you know, her family, her son,

all of this. And solving this case kind of wraps all that up and proves, that no, she wasn't that person. She was killed by, you know, someone who was, who, I mean, went to some of the most lengthy extremes we've ever seen. Oh, yeah. But at least Carrie's mom, Carrie's son, they know what happened. And they also know that she didn't abandon.

Right. Yeah. And, you know, for a mom and a son, those are two big things. Sure. But this Liz, wow. Yeah. I mean, as we wrap this one up, you know, like I said, I haven't dated for a very, very long time. I hope to never, ever have to date again. And your wife would be shaking her head. You're damn right. Well, she might be saying you might if you don't get your, you know what together. Well, that's true. And here's the reason why. Truthfully, anytime you meet someone new, there is no way that you can truly know. what that person is capable of or what they're going to do in a given situation. It's very true. I mean, you think about Dave, he's meeting women on an online dating site.

Okay. I think he even said in the documentary, he was having fun. You know, he had been in a relationship for a while. Now he was single. He was, you know, doing his thing. Yeah. but you're meeting a bunch of different people and you have no idea what they're capable of. Yeah, I think you have to go through a year or so to really understand somebody and go through the cycles of life to really see what you're getting yourself into.

Yeah, definitely some ups and downs. How does that person handle different situations? Not just when everything is going great, but, you know, hard times as well. But that's not what he, he wasn't looking for long-term relationships. So he was clear about it. And he was. He was up front. He didn't lie to people, it sounds like.

He just happened to run into someone who, you know, went to some levels that, uh, you don't see very often. And you hope no one ever has to see. No, absolutely. That's it for our episode on the murder of Carrie Farver. We got some voicemails. You want to check those out? Let's hear them.

Hi, guys. Gooday from W.A. I'm Kylie from Perth, Western Australia, and I've been listening to your podcast since I came across it earlier this year. It's a great way to pass the time on my driving trips to Albany in our South West, which is five hours away from me, but has recently been voted Australia's most beautiful spot, so be sure to check it out.

My dad lives in a nearby suburb called Emu Point, so that's why I go often. I have to say, I love it when you do the occasional Aussie story. the first one I listened to was David and Catherine Bernie, which happened here where I live. I was hoping you might cover the story of Stacey Mitchell, aka the Body in the Wheeler bin, which also happened here in Perth. I personally knew one of the killers through my work, and they are incarcerated with Catherine Bernie right now.

I also wanted to know, do you guys do this as a full-time job? Because it must take a hell of a lot of time to produce the amount you have. Thanks for your content and keep your own time ticking. Good day. That wasn't bad. Pretty good. No, that was terrible. I switched it up, you know.

I know he did. I think the week off might have helped your accents a little bit. Raise the lights. You're still not saying it, Kirk. Maybe it was because I was watching that Mad Max saga. Was somebody in their Australian? Yeah. There was a lot of Australian actors in it.

Oh, okay. Are they speaking with accents? Because there's a lot of British actors now, a lot of English actors who don't. That's very true. They use American accents. Hey, we appreciate the voicemail very much. We do. So to answer your last question, and we will look at that suggestion for TCAP, but I do the podcast full time, Gibby, still has a full-time job and then kind of fills in when he can, meaning he comes over to my house once a week to eat for free, eats my food and records. But yeah, we get it done. It is a lot of work. It is. No doubt about it. Well, hello, Mike and Debbie. This is Sarah from Florida. And I am in a very odd position right now as I have just gotten all caught up with true crime all the time.

So I said to myself, once I finally get caught up, I will call and leave you a voicemail. So here I am. And here is your voicemail. I've been a listener for about two years. I started listening when I was looking for a podcast covering the Alex Murdoch trial. And even though I don't think you've got to cover that, I was listening around a different podcast, back on yours, and I just absolutely fell in love. I started out listening to Unsolved and just kept on with a regular TCAT. So I definitely have more to say, but I'll keep this first voicemail short.

Thank you for all you do. And I have to tell you, I am either Team TCAT or Team Gibby. I'm not sure. Definitely wouldn't be the same without one or the other of you. But my boyfriend, even though he claims not to be a fan of true crime, He has listened enough with me to be team Berge. So here we are. Thank you again.

I'm sure I'll be calling again in the future. And I look forward to the next episode. Happy holidays and happy New Year. Bye-bye. Well, clearly she needs to get a new boyfriend. Well, I don't know what his name is, but he's a keeper. I don't know about that. He's a smart guy.

I would lock him down. I don't know what the heck he's thinking. That's funny. But we appreciate the voice. We do. We do. All right, buddy. We didn't have any mailbag.

So, and I actually haven't checked here lately. So there might be some there that we'll talk about next week. But with the holidays and stuff, you know. You're pretty busy guy. I was pretty busy. Yeah. That's it for another episode of True Crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby.

Stay safe and keep your own time ticking in 2025. Man.