True Crime All The Time - The Murder of Craig Rideout

Episode Date: August 5, 2019

50-year-old Craig Rideout's marriage was over. To make matters worse, his wife had moved in with his best friend. There was a tremendous amount of animosity that had built up over the custody of their seven children. Then, in 2016, Craig's body was found on the side of the road. His face had been burned with some type of acid as had his fingertips in an effort to hide his identity.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the life and murder of Craig Rideout, a man who was loved by a great many people. But it ended up being those closest to him in life that turned on him and ultimately planned and carried out his murder. As the details of this case unfolded in the media, people were shocked to find out all the sordid details behind his murder.You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise and donation informationSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

welcome to episode 142 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in True Crime. Mike Gibson, Gibby, how are you? Doing good, man. How about you? I'm doing great. Good. Had a good week so far. It's always weird to say you had a good week. It's not over, but so far. So good. It's moving all right. As it goes along, it's moving all right. Yeah. We had some really good response from our Patreon episode that we put out last week. Yeah, we did. So I think a lot of people like that. I'm glad. You and I just taped our weekly little Patreon segment.

Taped it and video taped it for the first time. Now I got to worry about what I look like on camera. You got to, man. I mean, you got to put more makeup on than you normally do. Yeah. I know you normally go like a little blush, a little rouge. Yeah. An eyeliner pencil.

I don't want the, you know, the lights to glare off my face when we record audio. Yeah. Well, you brought somebody with you to patch you down and kind of redo your makeup in between. I thought that was a little over the top. Well, you know, sometimes you got to do what you got to do. For a video that's going on Patreon. I just like, hey, we're going on video now. I know you're fancy, but.

I need you to come in and do my hair and my makeup. All right, man. We had some new Patreon supporters. So let's give some shoutouts. We had Pathology Lissons jump out to our highest level. What's up? Pathology. Valentina Jogan.

Hey, Jogan. Rebecca. level jumped out at our highest level. Thanks, Rebecca. Morgan Huff. What up, Huff? Tara Seton Holcomb. Hey, I want to say like Seton Hall every time you say Seton.

That's what I sound like. Ingeborg. Hey, Ingeborg. Jonathan. Jonathan. Grace Estelle Harvey. Hey, Grace. Adele Mole.

O'Dell, like, probably sings like Adele too. Probably. Yeah. Julie Myelander. Hey, Julie. Christina Weiss. What's up, Weiss? Tay Ray Pearl.

Hey, Taye. Kristen. Hey, Kristen. Tony Keating. Keating. Who sent us a bunch of stuff in the mail last week. Thanks, Tony. Blenda Rivamonte jumped out of her highest level.

Riva Mante. Amber Brown. What's up, Amber? Lisa Lingwall. Isn't Amber Brown like the same brown, brown? Did you just say the same brown brown? Isn't it saying amber brown, like saying the same thing? Is it color?

Isn't amber brown? No. What color is amber? When you say something, that looks a little amberish. I wouldn't call it brown. Oh, all right. So you're saying they should have. Amber's name should have been brown, brown.

I'm just saying. No, I think they're two different colors, and I think most people would say they are. All right. Shea Faulkner. Hey, Shea. Aaron Bizarro. Seinfeld tie there with Bizarro World. Absolutely.

Florentia Valley Miller. Ooh, Forencia. And Tamara Vasquez jumped out of our high slope. What's up, Vasquez? Vasquez. Pry, probably is. I call it Vasquez. Hey.

But she went, not took it up a notch They get it however they want it. She went Vasquez, huh? Yeah. Then we go back into the Vault Gibbs. This week, we selected a wondering generality. I'm right here.

I'm not wondering around. You're wondering around in general. This is a wondering generality. I'm waiting for you to pull the name out of the vault. A wondering generality. Oh. Been a longtime supporter of the podcast. We love that.

Thank you. We had some great PayPal support as well. Amy Bell. Thanks, Amy. Alice Ray. Hey, Alice. Kela Acker. Thanks, Keela.

L&M Global Enterprises Rees for Doors. Well, everybody needs one. Exactly. Suzanne Rogers gave a sizable donation. Thanks, Suzanne. Emily Bryant. Thanks, Emily. And then Nefarious New York.

Really? And, you know, Gibbs. It's a true crime podcast. We met the hosts in Chicago. They were great. They were great. They were pretty funny. Yeah, really funny.

So, you know, give them a listen. Check it out. So last week we were off for unsubcored. But we're back. There's an episode out right now. And it's on the Bennington triangle, Zup in Vermont. Yeah. It's a little bit different of an unsolved for us.

You know, there are some missing persons. Right. There's some things like that. But there is also, you know, the idea that potentially there's some kind of gigantic monster beast running around and has been. There's the theories on this range from. One extreme to another. They run the gamut for sure.

It will be a different type of episode, but a really good one. All right, man, are you ready to get into this one? I am. All right. We have to give a big thanks to Lana Hyatt for her help with the writing and research for this episode. We're talking about the murder of 50-year-old Craig Rideout. And we're going back to the state of New York for this one. We haven't been there in a while in a little while.

And I've said it before. These are the kind of cases that haunt me because, you know, this one involves members of Craig's own family conspiring against him. And I think, I think it's the research on these types of cases that are really tough. Yeah. Right. Because when we get into the details of this thing, you'll see. For me, it brings up a lot of what ifs, right? What if my wife has a secret boyfriend? And then all of a sudden, they're planning to kill me. Or what if she's just tired of me, doesn't have a secret boyfriend, but wants me gone anywhere. There you go.

Maybe I'm sharing too much my insecurities. I was just going to say all viable options. Possibilities. You say viable. That's a strong word, man. Maybe I'm sharing too much. I think you are. But I think it's what makes this case so harrowing, right?

It's the fact that, and it's not even just a spouse, other members of this guy's family, children. they're involved. When the details emerged, they were shocking. And for us, this is a very recent case. I mean, this murder occurred in 2016. We don't do very many that are that recent. That's pretty fresh. Yes, this is a pretty fresh case.

So let's start with just a little bit of background on Craig. He was born April 24th, 1966, born and raised in Pittsburgh, New York. Craig had one sister, Robin. They were very close. They were only 18 months apart, close when they were young, stayed close as they grew into adults. Craig was an economics major at Union College in Schenectady, and he was part of an alcohol-free fraternity. It's such a thing. I didn't even realize that those existed.

Like, no rubbing alcohol free? No, this is like drinking, no drinking. No drinking, huh? Yeah. Okay. Now, I was never in a fraternity, but I went to a lot of their parties. Yeah, we all know about Frank the Tank. And I can tell you one thing, it wasn't nobody sitting around playing no damn Jenga.

No. It was kegers, keg stands, slipping slides, don't spill your beer. I mean, it was a lot of alcohol. And probably way too much alcohol. No Jenga game, so. No jenga. Okay. So I do think this tells you something about Craig.

He ended up becoming an IT specialist after he graduated. He was the type of guy that people said had a wicked sense of humor. Wicked. Wicked. Like in Boston. But people said it wasn't like he was mean. It was more like he was mischievous. He was trying to get under your skin a little bit.

He would needle you. Huh. But because he liked you. Sounds like somebody that I know. Somebody I know for sure. Oh, somebody you know. Yeah, absolutely. But I think Gibbs, when you read about Craig Wrightout, it's pretty universally accepted.

This was a well-liked guy. He met a woman named Laura at a pub in 1988. And apparently it was love at first sight. People that knew the couple said about them, you could just see that they both had this amazing twinkle in their eyes. And it was for each other. So they married in January 1993. Laura was 22 and Craig was 27.

So that's interesting. I mean, I know you're always going to have those age gaps, but 22 and 27 probably doesn't seem like a big gap, but probably still some maturity level there, right? Because you're just 22, you're probably just getting out of college, right? In 27, you've been out in that world for a little bit. Yeah, I think you grow up a lot between the ages of, you know, 20, 22, and then 27. Yeah. I think in those five, six, seven.

six, seven years. That's really, you do a lot of growing up. Kind of the partying phase starts declining. For most people. I don't think Craig ever really had one, though. Yeah. He weren't drinking. In his alcohol-free fraternity.

Yeah. Still be wild and crazy without alcohol. I think there were shoots and ladders. Candy land. There could have been some hungry, hungry hippo, um, ants in my pants. Yeah. I don't know.

I don't know what these are, but clearly you've played them all. I think they're all games, man. Don't you play games with your kids when they were little? No. No, you did not. But Craig and Laura, they were pretty quick to grow their family. Their first son, Colin, was born that October, the same year they got married. And then over the years, they had six more children.

Oh, just six more. Just six more. All right. Seven in total. That didn't cause any heartburn at all. No. Really, they appeared to have a great life. And a lot of people do from the outside, right?

We talk about that all the time. Not everybody's going to show you. They're not going to pull back the curtain and let you know what's really going on. Yeah. So the day they do do, the day they do, do do that, the day they do do that. You did. Now you just said it again. I'm going to quit trying.

But when they do, either want to be there for it because it's going to be a heck of a show or you want to be as far as ways possible. Because you don't want to get caught in the crossfire. That's exactly right. But, you know, Craig had a good job. Laura stayed at home to raise the kids. They lived in a nice neighborhood, had a four-bedroom house on six acres of land. Oh, well, it's almost an acre per kid.

Almost. Not quite. So what do you do? You take all seven kids, give them a push mower, cordon off the six acres. Yeah. Here's your almost an acre. Here's your almost an acre. Go get it.

But Craig volunteered for a Catholic ministry and youth group. He also recruited prospective students. for Union College. And if that wasn't enough, right? On top of all of that plus his full-time IT job, he was a Cub Scout leader. Oh, really? Yeah, his son, Colin, was in the Scouts.

Craig was so involved in the Cub Scouts that a lot of the meetings that they had were held at his house. Like a Cub master. He was a Cub master, is that right? I don't know if that's called. A den master. Den master.

I've heard of that before, but I don't know what that is. You got the Den Mother. See, I wasn't in the Cub Scout, so I don't know. But I don't think they call them Den Mother. anymore. Probably just in person. I was in the Cubs Couts. I don't know all that stuff. I was in the, yeah, the Cubs Couts. I didn't go up to the Wiblo. I think you were in the Weeblows. I don't remember. I just remember getting my Cubs Cout knife in a bar of soap and we carved out a little bear or something out of it and that was the big thing and I cut my finger. So knowing you, you stayed till the day that

they handed out the knives and you were like, oh, I'm out. I got my knife. I'm gone. After I cut my fingers, I'm like, oh. But really, I mean, I think all of this information. right it helps to understand what type of man Craig right out was well liked outgoing and he appeared to be an extremely devoted husband and father had to be pretty organized that's what I'm saying to keep all that straight absolutely for sure now Laura was a little different than Craig she was less outgoing she didn't interact with the other parents right the kids parents as much as Craig did as much as Craig did. and I think you see that a lot of times in relationships. Opposits attract. You have the whole yin-yang of the thing. A lot of people would say that about our relationship. We're kind of opposites in some ways.

We're similar in a lot of ways. Definitely opposite in some other ways too. But look, she had seven kids, man. She probably didn't have any energy left to do any socializing. That's actually a good point. She's like, I don't need to be outgoing or socializing. with these people because if I have one second to myself, I'm taking a damn bubble bath. Yeah.

Or I just want to be able to go in the bathroom and have a moment without a kid clawing on me. I mean, if you think about it, Gibbs, seven kids, that's more than the Brady Bunch. They only had six. It's true. I mean, that's like the Brady bunch and Alice together. Yeah. I'd like to have an Alice. All right.

I mean, you can keep your personal thoughts to yourself on certain things. for you. You're like, here's, here's your meal, Mr. Gibson. Mr. Brady. You can't have a person like that. Yeah, I don't want to pay for it. Oh, I got you. Yeah, so I just go to the Waffle House instead and they're like, here's your breakfast. Dipship. Dips shit. We cooked it twice now. I'm not putting down the Waffle House, man. You know I love the Waffle House. I like the Waffle House. I go there twice a week. But it is a lot of kids in one household. It's a lot of gallons of milk. Well, and to that point, very necessary, I would think, to keep your finances in order, right? That would be paramount. Pretty important. You have a one income household. You have seven kids.

Not a lot of room for air. I can't imagine there is. Leftovers, you're freezing things. Now, I'm sure that Craig made pretty good money. But unless you're making, you know, big, big bucks, when you have a lot of, you have a single income household with seven kids, you're going to have to watch your money. The problem is, I think this is something that Laura struggled with over the years. She liked to spend money.

People described her as someone who just never believed that the couple could get into any kind of financial difficulty. But they did get to that point. And at one point, they were forced to downsize into a more modest house. you know Gibbs finances in a relationship can be a huge stressor. Oh, yeah. I mean, it used to be one of the top reasons people got divorced. And it has to still be up there.

Yeah, I would think so. Probably Facebook, you know, social media, and then finances and then infidelity on outside of Facebook. Well, when you said Facebook, I just assumed you meant infidelity. Yeah, because I think that's what a lot of people use it. rolls into one now anymore. At one point, it was said that Laura thought that Craig was hiding money from her, which he wasn't, but that was in her head. Have you ever hidden money? From you? Not from my wife. Okay. I hide all my valuables when I come over on the days that I know we're going to record.

I always think it's really weird. Like kids, wrap up the China. Yeah. Put away your babysitting money. Uncle Gibby's coming over. They always look at me weird when I say, hey, can I use the restroom upstairs? and everybody like, yes, you can, but give me a minute. I'm like, why? You hear all this like. D drawers are closing. Yeah. But there's one thing that is not in doubt.

The dynamic between Craig and Laura changed over time, right? They went from this seemingly picturesque, very happy couple to, I think at a certain point, they didn't like each other. And that sometimes happens. You know, he's probably thinking, I'm working all the time. come home, you're spending the money. She's thinking, you're at work all day, you leave me, you're all these kids, you're hiding money.

You get home, you don't help out. Who knows, right? Right. We weren't there. A lot of guys, I think, especially, would turn to alcohol. They might turn to drugs. That wasn't Craig Wrightout. We've already said that.

He wasn't into stuff like that. What he turned to was role-playing video game. Roll-playing video games. Yeah, which I can understand. I love those type of videos. video games. What's role playing video games? It just means you're you're put in the role of a character. Oh. And a lot of times you can level up. You can get different things. So kind of like your furry thing, but on a video game level. Yeah, has nothing to do with that. Okay. I'll go with it. But I think he did this

to escape, right? He wasn't happy at home. He started playing video games a lot. Now I think we have to talk about his best friend. Craig's best friend was a guy named Paul. Paul. PJ Tucci. These guys were very close. Paul had four kids. Obviously, Craig had seven kids. So the kids all knew each other. They all played.

They were good friends. It's like a baseball team, right? Pretty much. That's a baseball team with two subs. Two subs. Yeah. There you go. Or that's two complete basketball teams with a sub.

Or it's one short of a football team. We can keep going. Yeah, I'm sure you can. You want to do hockey, cricket. I don't know cricket as well. Soccer. Yeah. Now, in August of 2014, Paul's wife died of liver disease. And it was alleged that she had

battled alcoholism. It's pretty rough. It is rough. When you've got four kids and your wife dies, that's a hard time. Yeah, for sure. And then at the same time, you have your best friend Craig and his wife are going through this downward spiral and their relationship. And it's been going on for, you know, some time, all of a sudden. And I don't know how all of a sudden it was or how long in the making it was. I think it was pretty all of a sudden to Craig. Laura pretty much did the ultimate backstab to Craig. She left the house and moved in with Paul, his best friend.

Oh, that's here we go. Yeah. I mean, that's rough, man. Bad enough that your wife leaves you, right? That would be tough unless you just can't. stand her and then you're like, all right. Right. Yeah, good luck. Enjoy that. Have fun storm in the castle. Yeah. But then you find out that she has hooked up with your best friend. That's like a double whammy. It is, man. The lack of loyalty from both of them would be tough to handle. Because you'd

think your wife would be loyal, but you would think your best friend would be loyalty as well. Actually, I never thought about it that way. I was looking at it more from the point of view of his wife and how devastating that would be. Yeah. But it's actually a triple whamming. Yeah. Right. Your wife leaves you. Yep. Hooks up with your best friend, but your best friend is essentially stabbing you in the back as well. Sure. For hooking up with your wife. Yeah, because clearly this had to be going on behind the stage for a little bit before they made that decision to, hey, won't you move in with me? Yeah. That's what I say. I don't know how long it was in the making, how long it took to get together in November of 2014. So here's the other thing. So here's the other thing. thing, right? It had to have been in the works. Paul's wife died in August. Laura filed for a divorce

in November and was already living with Paul. Yeah. That's very quick. Probably why Paul's wife was drinking herself. Sick and dying. Yeah. Yep. I think you're probably right. But this would only be the beginning of their troubles. The troubles between Craig and Laura. And they were all centered around custody of the kids. There's seven kids. That's a lot to consider when you're talking about custody. Oh, it's huge, man. Now, the three oldest boys were already 18 years old, at least 18.

So they could do whatever they wanted. They wanted to be with their mom. So the contention really centered around 17-year-old Elizabeth, 15-year-old Julia, 12-year-old Patrick and 6-year-old Madeline. Four kids that were not yet 18. And I think Gibbs, what was really amazing to me was that custody of the four youngest children was awarded to Craig.

And that's not something you hear a lot of. That's a rarity. But I can tell you right now, it didn't sit well with Laura at all. She wanted all the kids. So she and her oldest son, Colin, they hatched a plan over the last part of 2015 and into 2016. And this is where things get very, very strange.

And it's tough for me to imagine a mother sitting down with her son and saying, here's what has to be done. Here's what we're going to do. Here's what we're going to do. So what they came up with, they wanted the two oldest girls to set up their father and make it look like he was violent. violent and that he was abusive and that all the children were scared of him. Right.

So this is their plan. They are trying to set something in motion that's going to get the four children taken away from Craig so that Laura gets custody. And she enlisted the help of her oldest son Colin. So Colin began texting his 17 year old sister Elizabeth. And he was essentially telling her step by step. This is what we want you to do. The plan was for her to barricade herself along with her other siblings in their room.

Then Colin said, call the police and tell them that you're scared, that your father is going to hurt you and your siblings. But they went even farther. They wanted Elizabeth to set up her phone to record everything. Right. So they were going to provoke their father. they thought that he was going to get mad, maybe break down the door to the bedroom. They'd have it all on video.

They show that to the judge. Walla. Laura gets custody of the kids. This is the plan. That's their plan. Okay. So as this is going on, Colin is texting his sister. And he says, call 911.

Tell them this. Quote, he's trying to break down the door and I'm afraid he's going to kill my sister. And this is what she did. Right? she got her siblings in the room, locked it, called the police. But the plan didn't work out because Craig didn't flip out. Obviously, Gibbs, this guy had no intention of hurting his children. So he's just calm.

Probably just concerned. What's going on? Yeah, he's like, hey, what's going on? The police probably show up and they're like, I don't, he's probably like, I don't know what's going on. But the one thing that they thought he would do, which was flip out and get caught on camera, he didn't do. And Laura was infuriated. She sent a bunch of text to Colin. They were texting back and forth about, you know, all these kids couldn't pull it off. And now what's interesting is, as we all know, you can delete those text messages, but they never really go away. No, they're stored. And

police are going to get a hold of these down the road. Yeah. And they're going to be used at trial. There's nothing that you delete that can't be retrieved. And they're going to paint a very damaging picture, right, of the mom and of a couple of the older boys. But for some reason, and this is something I couldn't figure out, I tried to research it. A judge did award custody later of the two older sisters to Laura at a subsequent hearing. Yeah, maybe, Craig said, you know what? Clearly they want to be with their mom. If you want to go, go, maybe.

I mean, the one was 17. So maybe the judge just asked them, do you want to go? and they were like, yeah, I don't know. Yeah. So now Laura has five of the seven children, but she doesn't have the youngest two. And she is still not happy at all. And there's a reason for it.

Not just the fact that she wanted the kids. She needed to have the two children, the two youngest children, within a certain amount of time. And the reason is that her and Paul wanted to move to North Carolina with all the kids. her seven and Paul's four. So she needed the majority of the kids to...

I see a lot of kids, man. 11 kids to feed. That is a lot of kids. Now, three of them are adults, at least. I don't know about Paul's. I didn't look into Paul's four kids. He might have had some because he was older too. He was in his 50s by that point.

I'm guessing she needed the majority of the kids to have the right to move out of state. That could have been. But I got the sense that it was more of the fact that she just wanted all of her kids. But the sense of urgency came around because of the fact that they had already signed a lease on a house in North Carolina. And so she had to step up her efforts. But also by taking all the kids, wouldn't that get her more child support? Yeah, I would think so. That could play a factor into it as well.

There were some texts that Laura sent to Colin about, hey, we've got to get these, you know, your two young. brothers and sisters. If I don't get them soon, it'll be too late to register them for school in North Carolina. So they were kind of up against the gun. So once again, she enlisted the help of her eldest son, Colin, and these text messages, they really came back to bite them in the ass at trial. We'll talk about it later. But in the two days leading up to the murder, Laura, Paul, and Colin, they hit a number of Walmarts around the area. And they were buying everything that they thought they would need to carry out their plan. And I'm telling you right now, Gibbs, in the time we're living in, this is only like three years ago, right?

This is not an old case. If you don't think someone is watching you in public at all times, you better check yourself. Before you wreck yourself. Exactly. That was a good one, by the way. So at this point in time, Craig was living in a townhome. with his two youngest children. And in the days before his murder, Craig called police to say that someone had been in his house,

had stolen his cell phone, had taken his keys. He said this was a guy dressed all in black. But he firmly believed that it was his son, Colin. And I guess Gibbs over a number of days, they exchanged emails about it. Craig later found this stuff like in a neighbor's yard or something. It was very strange. But I think the key is the bitterness between Lauren Craig was so bad at this point. There was some type of court order barring them from interacting with each other,

even when they dropped off and picked up the kid. That's pretty bad. Yeah, because you know you got to do that. Yeah. I mean, you're not supposed to say hi. You can't do nothing. You're like, drop your kid off, say, start walking to your mom. Because I can't talk to her.

I mean, you got young kids. You got at least be. semi cordial, right? For the kids, at least. You got to try. But I guess it was, this was, the acrimony was just so bad that a judge had to put this in place. And keep in mind, this was a couple that had been married for over 20 years. And early on, for at least a number of years, I don't know how many years, they were in love with each other. Yeah, you think they had to be in love with each other to get married, have that many kids together. You're like, how does it go so badly, so quickly. In May of 2016, Laura violated the custody order, and this prompted Craig's

attorney to request a hearing. The hearing was scheduled for July 26th. But Craig Wrightout would never make this hearing. He was killed before the hearing could ever take place. But I'm guessing that hearing probably would have given him, maybe insured him that the little ones weren't going anywhere. Either that or maybe he was going to get custody. of the two girls that, you know, were not 18 yet. Who knows what was, I don't even know what they were asking for with the hearing,

but I'm guessing clearly it was wrapped around her violating the order. Well, it was. Yeah, there's no doubt about that. But I think the other thing that's for, is for certain, Laura didn't want that hearing to take place. So whatever she had done or whatever she was fearful about that could happen at that hearing,

she was going to ensure that it didn't come true. in the early morning hours of July 20th, a grisly discovery was made in a rural part of Yates County. It was a body wrapped up in a tarp and there was a shovel nearby. So somebody was riding their bike along the road stumbled upon this body. They called the police. When police arrived on the scene, they found a man wrapped up in this tarp whose face and fingerprints had been completely disfigured. with acid. So really making the effort to make sure they could not be identified.

Yes. But then something strange happened. You know, they're investigating this body. All of a sudden, a cell phone starts ringing in the pocket of this dead body. I'm laughing. Not because of that.

What's happening here, I can't believe that somebody would go to the extreme of removing fingertips and any way to, for somebody to be recognized. Well, they didn't remove the fingertips. They poured acid on it. Yeah.

But not go far enough to make sure he didn't have an ID on him and not a phone. Take a wallet, take a cell phone, check the pockets. But I think it's a very astute observation you're making. We're most likely not talking about an experienced killer here, right? A hit man, somebody that had killed people before knew how to do it. They wouldn't make that type of, for the lack of a better term. term rookie mistake. My assumption is police looked at that and said, we're dealing with a novice. Yeah. It took authorities two days to officially identify the body as Craig Wrightout, but unofficially,

they were able to figure it out much quicker because of the phone, all of that. And the person that made that phone call was Craig's sister Robin. She was trying to get in touch with him that morning, but she wasn't having any luck. Robin had spoken to Craig the night before on the phone, and Robin said that Craig Wrightout was the type of guy that always answered his phone. Robin later said that, I mean, even if this guy was busy, if he was in a work meeting, whatever the circumstance was, if he actually couldn't pick up, he would send a text right then and there saying that he was busy, he'd call as soon as he could. And he probably followed up right after. And he did. He sounds like that kind of guy. So that morning Robin was trying to

call Craig. No answer. She tried emailing him. He didn't respond. Called his work phone. Couldn't get him. And the thing about it that Robin would say later was it wasn't like she was calling him out of the blue. He was expecting her to call. He knew that she was going to be calling him that morning. which made it even more concerning right had to be because he's like he knew he was calling why is he not answering why is he not getting back with me he knew this was important and i think like you said this was an organized guy he wasn't the type of guy i think to blow his sister off didn't sound like he was the type of guy that blew anybody off yeah robin called again around 1115 and when she didn't get an answer that time she called into his office not to his office phone

actually called the office, she was worried. And she asked them, you know, where he was at. Someone told her that they had not heard from him at all that day, but said that he emailed the night before saying that his daughter was sick. So he was going to work from home. So on her lunch break, Robin drove over to Craig's townhome. But when she got there, she saw Laura. That had to have been very shocking. I would think since she's not a lot of be there. And with everything, and you know, Robin knew everything, right? I'm sure her brother told her everything that had been going on to see Robin inside his house.

She had to have been blown away and very concerned. So what Laura told her was that she was there tidying up because her 12-year-old had called her to say that Craig was not home. the child hadn't seen him all morning and he was tired of watching his little sister. And Laura went on to tell Robin that one of her kids had just picked up the two little ones right before she got there, which is pretty convenient, right? Laura's there by herself. She's got to explain that.

Right. Number one, she's not supposed to be there like you said. Yeah. But that's not a bad excuse. Then Laura said something that was pretty odd. She told Robin, I knew it wouldn't be long before someone came looking for him. I don't know where he is. She went on to say that the kitchen smelled.

So she was cleaning up. But again, Robin knows who this person is. She's like, what are you doing cleaning up? You don't clean up anything. Right. Apparently she was not the tidiest person in the world. Didn't keep a very clean house herself. But she comes over to get her kids and she's going to clean up her ex's house that

she can't stand? Yeah. Not buying it. No, I'm not buying it. And Robin wasn't buying it. She told her to get the hell out. So Laura left. She took her purse.

She took a trash bag that had something in it. And then kind of like a, just an empty trash bag as well. The other thing that really concerned Robin was that Laura was parked in the spot that Craig normally parked in. But then she started looking through the house. and, you know, she's searching through Craig's house. She noticed some things that were very alarmed. Apparently, Craig only owned three pairs of shoes.

And really, how many pairs of shoes does a guy need, Gibbs? Three. About three, right? Dress shoes, gym shoes, cowboy boots. Unless you play, you know, in a basketball league or a softball league, then I'll give you that. You need some high tops. You need some cleats. You maybe need some specialized shoes, some golf shoes.

Mucks. But if we're just. talking about everyday shoes. About three pairs. Now, I violate that. I have way more than that. You got more than some women have. I do. Yeah. But Robin knew Craig only had three pairs of shoes, and she found them lined up neatly near the front staircase. So why would that be odd? Because if Craig only owns three pairs of shoes and he's not at the house, what's he wearing? Yeah. To decide to go barefoot and do some earthen? Did he go Zola Bud? Running down. the sidewalk barefoot.

Did you get that Zola Bud? I got it. You remember her? A little bit. Remember? She was that the runner in the Olympics that ran barefoot. Yeah. Got tripped up with that Mary Decker Slaney or whatever name was.

Oh, was that the one that got tripped up? Oh, okay. Yeah. That's an old reference. That's like 84, I think, L.A. Olympics. Yeah, I was just a little. You were a tyke. I was a tight.

That was an 18-year-old. An 18-year-old tight. 18-year-old, 17-18-year-year-old type. But again, to Ron. Robin, that means something. My brother's got three pairs of shoes. He's not here. He didn't go out in his car wearing no shoes.

Yeah. Something's not right. What'd you do with him? She tried the bedroom door and she found it was locked. But again, her brother's not in the house. She can't find him. She's calling for him. Now, he could be behind that bedroom door, but she can't get in.

So she made a call to Craig's divorce lawyer saying, hey, what do I do? And apparently the divorce lawyer told her to, call 911. And that's what she did. And she said, she was almost apologetic in the call. She said, I don't want to make a mountain out of a molehill, but I'm concerned. It's almost like, should I be calling the police? I don't know. Should I be calling 911? Because what if her's, you know, what if her brother did really leave and walk down to the 7-Eleven? Right. She's going to feel bad about that. But I think her concern outweighed, you know, anything. worry about making a call to 911 that she shouldn't because she did tell them about Laura.

You know, Laura's there. She's not supposed to be there. So the police come out. And when they enter the home, Robin told them the bedroom door was locked. She wanted them to force it open. But they couldn't because they said they needed a warrant. They don't know what's behind that door. She's not the owner.

She can't get permission. Right. But if that was you or I, we would have broke that door down before. the police got there. No, definitely agree with that, but my assumption is Robin probably was not going to be able to get a running start and knock this door down. But what if they did? What if they knocked it down and like every bit of evidence that they needed to convict somebody was in that room? It'd be a problem. Would that mean that it could not be introduced at trial? Because there was

no warrant? Possibly, right? Maybe. Unless the police and Robin were smart and be like, hey, that door was always open. That's what you would do. Well, if it was always open, why is the whole frame splintered? Domestic. That was like that. Yeah. So then they go into the basement. And the basement was like this unbelievable dichotomy.

One side was completely organized and tidy, which you would expect from what we've said about Craig Wrightout. The other side was like a horror movie. Pretty easy to see that something sinister had happened in that area of the basement. there was blood. There was evidence that someone had tried to clean up a crime scene or at least blood. You know, you don't always, you could have just nicked yourself pretty bad, I guess. But my assumption is this was a lot of blood. Yeah.

Clearly it was obvious to the police on site. Yeah. Well, and I think it became more obvious once they found the garage. And I think most people probably know what a garage is, but, you know, if you don't, it's a homemade kind of strangulate. device. A lot of times it's like two small pieces of a wooden handle with wire or something tied around it. It's really just so you can hold on to something while you are pulling back and twisting that to a point where nobody's ever going to be able to get that off.

You'll make it get mine on my truck? No. No, no, no. If I see that, I want to start firing. Yeah, I don't want that to happen here. But it's a very dangerous weapon. I mean, think about somebody Gibbs coming up from behind with a you know whether it's piano wire some type of thin but very you know strong wire and they start wrapping it right behind your neck you can't get to it it's so tight there's no way you can get your fingers underneath it it's a scary thought it's a tool of a lot of hitmen back in the day maybe still today i don't know how many hitmen are still rolling around but probably more than we'd like to know about. There's a few.

You still got your ad up in Soldier of Fortune magazine? I don't talk about it. Okay. But I do have this fancy little membership card. The garot had blood on it. And police later determined that whoever tied the knots that made up this garot was left-handed. That will become important as we go down the road. Well, clearly, see, that's why I do things, even though I'm left-handed.

I try to learn things with my other hand. It's a good idea. Just in case. I'm like, this could be used against me. Let me use my right hand. Yeah, because I think you lefties are at a disadvantage. First of all, most of your criminals or geniuses. Isn't that what people always say?

So we're one or the other. One of the other. Sometimes we're both. Yeah. Somehow. Now, I'm kidding about that. But I've heard that before. I think as a percentage, right?

You can't go by sheer numbers because more people are right-handed. percentage wise, there's a larger percentage of left-handed criminals. There's also a larger percentage of left-handed artists and geniuses and very creative people. Yeah. Something about you lefties. We're lefties, but we're all right. You're all right. You're all right. Not great, but you're all right.

Yeah. But we're not all right. No, not all lefties are right for sure. police begin questioning Laura and the kids. And especially the two youngest, right? They find out that neither the son nor the daughter who lived with Craig had seen him since they went to bed the night before. Police questioned Colin.

He said he had no idea where his father was. But at some point, the police got some cell phone information and found out that his phone was pinging about 50 miles away in Yates County, which is where the body was discovered that had acid poured on it. So at that point they knew, right? They knew that that body was most likely Craig Wrightout. And I think police in Yates County knew it at some point during the day two because they had his phone. It's 2016. They put it together pretty quickly. Around 11 a.m. Police get a 911 call from Menden Ponds Park, also called the Devil's Bathtub, which is a strange name, but this is a

lake with a two mile trail around it. And when you look at the pictures Gibbs, it looks like a pretty good place to dispose of things that you don't ever want to be found. That is, unless you're seen by someone doing something suspicious. We're not talking about professionals here, right? this is not Jason Bourne trained by the government to murder someone and get away with it. This is a bunch of middle class family members who probably watched a little CSI over the years and decided that they knew how to kill someone and get away with it. Because it looks so easy on TV. They don't even know.

Once you're in that world, it's a whole other thing. Like a lot of things, I will take your word for that. But let's get back to this 911 caller, right? They described a male who was taking off some like plastic rubber gloves, wrapped them in a blue tarp and a trunk and then took off down the hill. So police get this call, suspicious mail. They go check it out. And at first they encounter Alex Rideout, right?

The third oldest boy. And they tell them they're investigating a call about a suspicious male. doing some suspicious activity. And then all of a sudden, Colin is there, the oldest. So I want to play a little bit of audio from the interaction with police and the two boys that day. Going out?

Give you your brother off for a walk? Basically, it's... I mean, we're just like out and then suddenly people show up and it's like, well, that's... I've never really encountered police before, so it was like... You never run in trouble.

No, I don't really do drugs or drink or really party. I've only... I'm 19. I'm doing college next to a day. Have you heard anything to your bag? Well, I emailed him last night. I didn't hear from him. I heard from him Monday. And he picked up my brother and sister, I think, Tuesday. I'm worried about what's in that bag. And I tell you, if you tell me what's in that bag,

before I see what's in that bag, it'll be better for you. You know, I don't know what's in the bag. Do you believe in God? I do, yeah. Anything you need to talk about? Well, there was, there's a lot of blood in the basement, you know, and I was, I was worried that, you know, something that happened. There's a lot of blood in the basement. Yeah.

So that's not good. No, it's not good. Because I think you heard both brothers say they hadn't seen their dad, then towards the end, and obviously I cut that down to make it a lot shorter. But towards the end, they start talking. the police says, you know, I'm really concerned about what's in that bag. And then they start talking about the fact that they, they saw a bunch of blood in the basement. You don't hear it on that, but, you know, I think towards the end, Colin says that his mom asked him to dispose of the bag. There you go.

None of it is good. But what's amazing about this tape is that it never gets introduced at trial. defense attorneys are able to bar it from being introduced because the boys were not read their Miranda rights. So I think the police just thought they were just talking to them, you know? Yeah. Hey, what are you guys doing out here? And the defense was successfully able to argue that, no, they were detained. They were being detained at that point and should have been read their rights.

They weren't. So this evidence never gets introduced. but the police end up discovering trash bags full of bloody clothing, empty drain-o containers, bloody gloves. I mean, really, this is kind of like jackpot city here in terms of evidence. It's like a lot of, man. So police had to be pretty pumped about what they found, but I mentioned it, right? And I think it was Colin that said before the bags were even opened, I don't know what's in there.

my mother asked me to take the bags to the park and get rid of them. So Alex and Colin were both arrested on charges of tampering with evidence. Laura and Paul Tucci were later arrested. Laura was charged with murder. And Paul was charged with tampering with evidence after some testing of the bloody gloves revealed his fingerprint on them. Police found Laura's fingerprint on a garbage bag. bag that was found in Craig's basement. And obviously, like we talked about, police weren't buying

Laura's story about the fact that she was cleaning up Craig's townhouse out of the goodness of her heart. I don't think that was this woman's MO throughout her life. No. She was trying to get rid of the evidence of his murder. And I had this thought, Gibbs. I was wondering, how much could she have cleaned up if Craig's sister Robin had not interrupted her? Probably a substantial amount. A lot more. Yeah. I don't know if she would have got it clean enough that forensics wouldn't have found something.

Yeah. To the naked eye. Possibly. But Robin interrupted her, made her leave the house. I think that was a big deal. Police also apparently found the remote to Craig's car on the bed that Paul and Laura shared together in Paul's house. Not looking good for Laura and Paul, not looking good for Colin and Alex either. And it wasn't long after this that police found out about the trips

to Walmart. And they were able to obtain the video surveillance tapes from the Walmarts. There was, they went to like two or three different Walmarts and they, they didn't all go together. They kind of paired off and, I mean, they were trying to be sneaky. They just weren't sneaky enough. No. And like I said, if you think you're not being watched, you're full of it. You're fooling yourself. Somebody is watching you at all times, just about if you're out in public. But these tapes showed them going into the stores, you know, purchasing things that would be later used in the murder. But even more so, I think, in the cleanup, it doesn't get a whole lot easier, I don't think, for the prosecution than that, right? They found the stuff in the trash bags. Now we've got the video evidence

that shows that you bought the things. Yeah, just link to link to link. It means it's just, it's everything's lining up any of the best possible solution. You have Colin purchasing a shovel and four pairs of work gloves, Laura and Paul purchasing Drano and a 24 foot tarp. Now, of course, they're going to have stories for all of this, right? Paul said that, you know, they needed some of this stuff. They, for their, their move, right? It was for moving purposes. And as far as the Drano, he said, well, you know what? I've got daughters. Got a lot of daughters. A lot of women living in this house and they clog up to sinks. Now, I have two daughters and a wife. Yeah, you do. We go through a lot of Drano or we did, especially my daughters, man. They're, you know, they have long hair. And

And so I bought one of those things that catches all the hair in like a little trap. Yeah. Because it was like every week, I was having to go in there and unstop their bathtub. So you're like, you know what? Put this little thing of my jiggy in. I'm on Amazon. Do, do, do, do. In two days.

You're like, yeah. Problem salt. But that is a real thing for those of you out there that don't have girls. They got so much hair, that hair just comes out and it clogs up. bathtub's like crazy. Clothes up bathtubs. You find it on your clothes. After you come out of the dryer, you're like,

it has long hair on it. What happened here? Yeah. And for me, I have no hair. So I know for a fact it's not mine. So it's hard to explain. They also bought two bungee cords.

Any Diet Coke. Because you need a Diet Coke when you're going to do all this type of activity. Hydration. Yeah. You need to stay hydrated. When you talk about people not being smart, the Diet Coke was later found

in Craig's basement right near where they found the blood. You can't take the Diet Coke with you, dispose of it at some other location. Yeah. Again, you know, I don't want to harp on it, but we're just not talking about masterminds here. You know, we're talking about a mother. We're talking about two kids, you know, not that old, right? They're adults, but wasn't that long ago that they had their 18th birthday.

They don't know what they're doing. police also found a bungee cord in Paul's house that appeared to match what was on the Walmart surveillance tape as well as what was on the tarp that was wrapped around Craig's body. So we're not going to spend a lot of time, Gibbs, talking about the trial and the evidence, because this is it. You're hearing it. And it's a lot. But to me, it's a slam dunk. I don't know. You and I keep talking about slam dunks. I think we have different ideas of what a slam dunk is.

I think this is very compelling evidence. For me, to be a slam dunk, I need to see you on video committing the crime. Not just buying the things that maybe later on were involved in the crime. Don't get me wrong, it's great evidence. I just think this slam dunk thing is for me a little higher level of, what's the word?

I need more. Yeah, I know what you're saying. I need more. I think you're ready to see the video with them, pouring the Drano on to the, yeah. I think you're ready to fry everybody. Sometimes. At trial, all four defendants, Laura, Colin, Alex, and Paul, they were tried together.

And I think that's somewhat strange. And actually, the defense attorneys fought against it pretty hard. They wanted separate trials for all four defendants. And I don't blame them. I think if it was me on trial, I would want my own trial. Yeah. I don't want the jury to hear evidence about somebody else and tie it to me. and assume I had something to do with that evidence.

Yeah, and you would hope that as your defense attorney could get a lot of things thrown out based on some other factors and other trials and things like that. So the prosecution laid out their evidence, most of which we've already talked about. You had the Walmart surveillance video. The fact that they were able to tie some of these purchases to crime scene areas is probably the most damning pieces of evidence. The first surveillance video shows Laura and Colin ride out at the Macedon Walmart. Colin caches out with two bottles of drain cleaner and a stick of deodorant.

The next day, Laura goes to Walmart on Hudson Avenue in Rochester with her boyfriend Paul Tucci. They buy three more bottles of drain cleaner, a tarp, two sets of bungee cords, bug spray and a bottle of Diet Coke. Then Colin makes another trip to the Macedon Walmart a few hours later, getting out of what appears to be a full car and cashing out with a shovel and full. four pair of work gloves. Prosecutors tied many of the items purchased during these shopping trips to the crime scene, to the field where Rideout's body was found,

and to the area where the Rideout brothers were caught trying to dispose of evidence. So I like that clip because I thought she did a really good job of kind of laying it out. So if you're going to buy a bunch of draino, I guess you need some deodorant to go with it? I'm guessing. You can't just buy a bunch of draeno, right? Hey, you need to get a bunch of draeno when you go to the store to throw them off, Pick up one deodorant.

Okay, okay, mom. Or you just knew you were going to be perspiring and you needed some of that degree. Maybe. You also had the medical examiner testify about the injuries to Craig Rydout. The photos were shown during the testimony of the medical examiner, Dr. Nadia Granger. She confirmed that Craig Rydout was killed by strangulation and a hit to the head. She said the injuries to Rydout's neck shows that he struggled with as attacker or attacker. and that's what the prosecution told the jury they would learn during the opening statements.

He was strangled around his neck. He was struck in the head and he was murdered in his own basement. You also had the text messages between Lauren and Colin and some of her other children. I think the prosecution used these Gibbs to really try to show a clear intent in the intent was that Craig right out had to be taken out of the picture one way or another. Yeah, I think it was a great way also to show the jury, the ties in between everybody with the text messages. Right. Who was the kind of the orchestrator, who all was involved. Now, during the trial, Laura made some claims. She claimed that Craig had raped her on multiple occasions and that actually

two of her kids were the product of rape. She also claimed that because of the way that she was brought up, she could not have an abortion. But she used this to say, if I don't believe in abortion, how could I possibly believe in murder? This is the tie that she was trying to make saying, no way that I murdered Craig Wright out because I don't believe in murder. I could have had an abortion.

but I didn't because I don't believe in it. It's somewhat of a stretch. Yeah, big stretch. But would he have to lose? I always think about that. What do you have to lose? Throw it all at the wall. Maybe there's something that will stick.

A juror will pick up and say, I got to think about that. That's all you need, man. Yep. Right. Now, there was one thing that prosecutors couldn't do. They couldn't say who exactly killed Craig Wrightout. And I think Gibbs, sometimes that can be a tough thing for a jury.

They want you to lay it out. Tell me who killed this guy. Who was involved? Well, I think they knew who was involved. They just couldn't say who actually did the strangulation. But they knew he was strangled. They had the ligature marks. His hyoid bone was fractured.

As was another bone that helped support the throat. They also pointed to multiple cuts on his face and head. that indicated this guy fought for his life as he was being strangled with the garage. Which they had as evidence. Yeah, they had the murder weapon. They just couldn't say with certainty who was holding on to it, who was twisting it to end Craig Wrightout's life? They couldn't say that. But apparently they didn't have to, right?

Under New York law, it wasn't something that they had to be able to prove to get murder. At the end of the four-week trial, Laura and Colin were found guilty of second-degree murder, as well as some other lesser charges. Alex was found guilty of only tampering with evidence. And Paul Tucci was completely acquitted of all charges. Apparently, there just wasn't enough evidence in the jury's mind to convict this guy of anything. But we did say they found a fingerprint of his on a bloody glove. Yeah. So, There was some evidence, but apparently not enough. Just not enough.

Well, he's got to live with it the rest of his life. Yeah, depending on what his level of participation was, he's in the videos, right? He did shopping. Now, did he know what he was shopping for? I don't know. But depending on what his level of participation was in this whole thing, you're right. He has to live with it. Alexander Rydow, you've been found not guilty of murder in the second degree.

guilty of two counts of tampering with physical evidence. You're remanded to the custody, the sheriff's pending sentence, Colin Rideout. The jury has found you guilty of murder in the second degree and guilty of two counts of tampering with physical evidence. You're remanded to the custody. The sheriff pending sentence, Laura Rideout, the jury has convicted you of murder in the second degree, tampering with physical evidence and burglary in the second degree. You are remanded to the custody the sheriff pending sentence. Mr. Tucci, you've been found not guilty of murdering the second degree and tampering with physical evidence. Any bail you have posted is hereby released. Any records concerning this matter are hereby sealed.

I'm thinking he's like, yes, thank goodness. And I'm thinking she's probably like, are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? He's getting off? And I've got to take the whole thing. And my boy? I don't know. I think there was probably both of them.

that. You can actually see him in the video, Paul, he's very happy, right, that he got off, which anybody would be. Absolutely. But that was a condensed version because I don't think anybody wants to sit through and listen to the whole thing. It's very long, right? When it's drawn out, so I kind of pieced it all together. But the whole family is fighting the verdict at this point on the grounds that they didn't get a fair trial. And we talked about this right a little bit ago. they're claiming that it's because they were all tried at the same time. And their defense attorneys have referred to it as spillover. The concern that evidence against one defendant is viewed as evidence against the others.

And I can kind of see that. That's why I said I think I would want a separate trial. Yeah, I would too. You know, prove that I did what you're saying. I don't want the jury to think, okay, this person did something. But because you're on trial with them, you must have done something too. That would be my concern. Guilty by association.

Yeah. Right? Yeah, very much so. Now, there was quite a bit of evidence that was excluded from the trial. Craig's theory that Colin had broken into his house, as well as the emails that they traded back and forth, that was excluded. A search history from Colin's computer that included the words involuntary manslaughter. That was excluded. as was the video and audio, some of which we played, of Colin and Alex talking to the police there at

the devil's bathtub. That didn't make it in. We said that because they were not read their Miranda rights. The first two, I don't think would have made any difference. But that video and audio of the police talking to them, I just wonder, would that have changed the charges against Alex? right because Laura and Colin were charged with murder. Alex was not. Would that have changed their minds and maybe push them towards a second degree murder charge as well? I think so.

I didn't have a lot of the text messages, right? I think in a large part, that's really what sank Colin and Laura. All these text messages showing not only premeditation, but you know, kind of laying out in detail why they needed to, remove Craig from the picture. I don't know if she had those same type of text messages with Alex.

And again, I don't know how much he had to do with it with the actual murder. No, we're never going to know. But when you talk about Paul Tucci, I think there's a lot of people Gibbs that feel like he got away with murder. And there's a couple of reasons. We mentioned the bloody fingerprint. The other thing that a lot of people point to is that. the knots that were tied to make the garage were made by a left-handed person.

I think we mentioned that. Right. No one in the right-out family was left-handed, but Paul Tucci was. But Paul, yeah. So, I don't know, it's a lot, you know, you get that kind of internet forum talk going. There's a lot of people that feel like this guy really dodged a bullet and got off when he played a much bigger role in this than the jury believed he did. Yeah.

Like I said, he has to live with whatever he knows. He does. He does. I mean, I think to this day, Paul maintains that Laura Zinnison. And he just keeps saying, right, all of that stuff that they bought at Walmart, that the prosecution used as evidence. There's no doubt that they did. That was them preparing for the move to North Carolina.

That was not them out shopping for murder and murder cover up supplies. That's a tough one to believe. Well, they found some drainocans and the bags that the boys had. Well, yeah, they definitely bought all that stuff. So, I mean... So why do you need to throw it in the park? Yeah, if it's for the move. Right.

If it's for the move, why can't you just throw it in your own trash can? And why is Craig Wrightout found in a blue tarp wrapped with a bungee cord, both of which looked like exactly what you bought? lot at Walmart. Yeah. I don't think it's a coincidence. It's not. It's not a coincidence either. But in wrapping this case up, it's hard to believe. It shouldn't be, I don't think, for you and I anymore, but it is kind of hard to believe that a woman like Laura Rideout could get so desperate in the situation that she was in to get to this new home to start this new life with Paul Tucci in North Carolina that she was willing to kill Craig Wrightout. The thing that she thought was keeping her from

this new life. It's just, it's hard. It's hard to believe. I mean, this is not even, you know, some big insurance policy, uh, murder. This is not, I'm trying to think of some of the other reasons why this is I want to get to North Carolina. Yeah. I want my two kids because I want to take them to North Carolina and you got to go. I mean, this is not, you know, you've been, you've been beating me for 20 years and I'm not going to take it anymore. And again, I'm not saying that you should be killing people for any reason, but this one just seems particularly heartless.

Yeah. Or like the reasons behind it are so, what's the word? I'm looking for, Gibbs, minuscule, just like there's nothing there. Well, it was a pointless murder. That's for sure. Yeah, yeah, very tough. Very tough. But that's it.

That's the case of the murder of Craig Rideout. We've got some voicemails. You want to check those out? I do. Hey, guys. My name is Lauren. I'm calling from Phoenix, Arizona. It is far too hot out here.

But you guys have, you know, given me something to do while I'm trying to avoid getting fried by the sun. So you've made this summer for me so much better listening. to your podcast. I really think you guys are like spot on really funny. You've got like incredible witty banter between you guys and it cracks me up so much. I love what you guys are doing. Everybody tells you this so I don't want to be like everybody else. But I just want to say you guys are like, you know, inspirations to me, kind of heroes to me. I'm in school right now, you know, trying to get through college and you know, life is rough but this, you know, you're teaching me a lot and I admire you guys. So I'm sorry for being so long-winded, but you know,

you've got you've got friends over in the A-Z. So just stop on by whatever you want, guys. You're always welcome. You guys are the best and keep being funny because you guys are really funny. I don't know if people tell you that a lot, but you guys really crack me up and I love it. So keep it up. Thank you for everything you do and God bless, America. Hey, you're a hero. Hey. She has not seen you in tights. No, she has not.

And you don't want to. Nor would she want to. But you know what I like Gibbs? She said, we're teaching her some things. Which, again, I think we've talked about it. We never set out to do that, but we hear that from a lot of people. Yeah. Whether it's just being more self-aware, being more aware of your surroundings, keeping your head on a swivel, whatever it is.

English language, grammar, anything I can do to help there. Fun facts about movies. Yeah. But we appreciate it. I'm so darn witty. Hi, Mike. Hi, Givie. This is Madison in Washington, D.C.

I have been listening to you guys like crazy for the past several months. And I was just listening to the latest episode of true crime all the time. And you're talking about, oh, brother, we're art out. And I love that movie. I'm obsessed with that movie. and I was screaming at my phone. It's the Odyssey, Gibby, by Homer. I just thought I would let you guys know that.

Keep it up and keep your own time picking. Man, such a good read, too. Such a good read. Neither you nor I have ever read that. Nor will I ever. Nor will we ever. But, yeah, this is the kind of stuff that you get me into. There's a bunch more probably voicemails

that now I won't be able to play. You know. I get tons of emails. But hey, that was Madison in D.C. It's a pretty good name of having D.C. I mean, Madison. Like James Madison. Dolly Madison.

Dolly Madison? Yeah. Yeah, there you go. Thanks for that. Yeah, that's a subject that comes up a lot. We've been talking about that. I think if we could logistically make it work, we would do some. Yeah.

We even talked about doing some stuff maybe with Gen Y, with True Crime Garage. Or we could do it by ourselves. Either way. I just, number one, I don't. know how to do it, how to put it all together. I know how to do the podcast. You need like a event coordinator. Exactly. Exactly. Mike and Gibby. This is John in the airport in D.C. touring musician, listen to you guys all the time. Totally up-the-date. Just listen to Tyler Hadley. Wow. I'm from Durham, North Carolina. I was telling my friend how I had met Michael Peterson a couple

times and was just mind-blown by that whole thing. And I was asking her if she knew any of the people involved with that. And she was like, well, everyone kind of forgot about that after we went to a party. And the guy's parents were dead in the house. He found out later kind of eclipsed everything. But you guys rock, man. I've seen Mike because without Mike, I would have never gotten to hear Gibby. And that sweet, sweet, filthy voice of his stuff. Stay safe. Keep drum time ticking and keep it up. You guys brought. Thank you.

Bye. All right. So first of all, those dings are my computer. Yeah, I was wonder what that ding was. So not my phone this time. No, it's not your phone. I'm trying to record these voicemails off my computer and I'm getting an email probably about the fact that it's home or the odd, and the Odyssey.

Well, you know, it was an important fact to get out there. It was. But, so I want to go back. Did he say silky or filthy? Either one. They either one. Quite a compliment. Kind of goes both.

Kind of can go either way. On your voice. I think it's silky and filthy. I think it's filthy silky. Is it silky? Filthy. Anyway, we appreciate the voicemails. We got mailbag.

He was from DC too, just like the previous caller. I didn't even catch that. Two DC callers in a row. How about that? How about that? Listen, we got mailbag too. Rebecca, who is an amazing fan of the show. She actually sent in a DVD of forensic files with Dr.

Michael Bodden. from her own personal collection. Oh. She didn't buy this and send it in. She said, hey, you can get it on normal TV now. So here's my DVD. No, I think to me it's extra special because it's coming from her personal collection. I know.

And she's heard me talk about it all the time. Yeah, no, I think it was really cool. And then Calista Carpenter, she made us up some shirts, some T-Cat shirts. They have her names on them. They're actually pretty cool. Yeah. So we appreciate that a lot. Loved it.

All right, Gibbs. you got anything else? You know what? No. Okay. Good, because I was going to go on regardless. Yeah, anything I say at this point gets cut out anyway. Yeah, exactly. So, all right, that's it for another episode of True Crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.