True Crime All The Time - The Murder of Mark Stover

Episode Date: February 28, 2022

In 2009 Mark Stover’s professional life was thriving. He owned a successful dog-training business, he worked for famous clients, and he was known as “The dog whisperer of the pacific northwest.” At the same time, his personal life was falling apart. A divorce, a stalking conviction, and an obsession with finding his old wedding photos led him down a dark path. Mark stalked, harassed, and threatened his ex-wife. She feared for her life, but in a shocking turn of events, Mark was murdered.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the strange and baffling murder of Mark Stover. There's no doubt that Mark's ex-wife Linda Opdycke was afraid of him. She started taking self-defense classes, purchased a number of firearms, and took her concerns to the Sheriff. Then, she met a man named Michiel Oakes and the two fell in love. Michiel Oakes shot and killed Mark Stover, but, the reason that he did it was at issue. Michiel admitted to killing Mark Stover but said that he did so in self-defense. How would the jury see it?You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 272 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in True Crime. Mike Gibson. How are you? Doing good, man. How about yourself? I'm doing very well. Good.

We've got some really good episodes for everyone this weekend. This one that we're getting ready to do on TCAT. We have an episode out on True Crime All the Time Unsolved on the murder of Ravel, Belmain. and we're headed to Australia for that one. So that's out now. Make sure you check it out. We also dropped a brand new Patreon episode on Saturday about Jason Ma. A 19 year old who murdered his dad's girlfriend and her son because he was upset with his father.

Yeah. He really had a love for his vehicle. Yep. And it also had something to do with his car. But if you're a Patreon supporter, make sure you check that out. Speaking of Patreon, let's give some shoutouts. We had Malca B's. Hey, Malca.

Casey Rumba. What's going on, Rumbaa? Jennifer Asplund. Hey, Jennifer. Jordan Edwards. What's up? Edwards. Brian Peterson.

Hey, Brian. Gangsta One girl. What's up? Gangsta? Gabe Porta. What's going on, Gabe? Claudia Vukovic. How's it going, Claudia?

Katie McLan. Hey, McClain. Olga. Good old Ogla. You said it the same way you said it on Patreon. I can't get it out of my mouth. It's Olga. Olga. We had Anne Pauline Crows. Hey, Ann. Emily Knight. What's going on, Emily? Katie German. Hey, Katie. Dominique Floreville. Hi, Dominique. Lisa Fisher. And last but not least, Danielle Kendrick. Well, thank you, Daniel. And then if we go back into the vault, this week we selected Becky Tate, but I have to make a correction for last week. I said the vault name is Aaron Wilhide, but it was actually Brendan Wilhide. I was looking at two different columns.

and got the names mixed up. I do that sometimes. So I wanted to correct that. We also had some great PayPal donations from Angelica Arteaga. Hey, Angelica. Eugene Severi. What's up Severi? I don't know say it's Severi.

And a large donation from John Hut. Oh, John's awesome. Yeah. So thanks to everyone. We really appreciate it. All right, Gibbs. Are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime all the time? I'm ready.

We're discussing the murder of a pretty, well-known dog trainer named Mark Stover. In 2009, Mark Stover's professional life was thriving. He owned a very successful dog training business. He worked with a lot of famous clients, and he was known as the dog whisperer of the Pacific Northwest. But at the same time, his personal life was falling apart, a divorce, a stalking conviction, and an obsession with finding his old wedding photos.

led him down a pretty dark path. Mark stalked harassed and threatened his ex-wife. She feared for her life. But it was Mark who ended up being murdered. I mentioned it, right? Mark Stover was known as the Dog Whisper of the Pacific Northwest. It's a big title. Well, it's a pretty big area. It is in big area. So you're Numero Uno in the dog training business in a fairly large area. Yeah, I mean, I used to be known as the dog whisper of Eltleberry Drive. Right. Much smaller area.

Very much smaller. But you had your clients. I did. You know, the one. So Mark was praised for being able to tame even the most difficult dogs. Mark's friend and client, Andrea Franielovich, told CBS, he was almost more dog than he was human. I would see him get down on all fours and look at the dogs right in their eyes. He just had this amazing connection.

Mark was an outdoorsman, a hunter, a history buff, and an avid gun collector. Boy, I could say all the same things about you. Me? Yeah. It sounds like you to a tee. Okay. Besides the history buff. Mark's sister told CBS he was highly intelligent, well read, an excellent cook.

Now, he could be difficult. He could also be very pointed in his comments. I think you could say all that right there about me. Or about me. I thought you were going to say that about me. I can be difficult and I'm very pointed in my comments. You are very pointed in your comments. Now, Mark didn't have an easy life growing up.

His father died when he was just 18 months old. And one of his sisters died when he was a child. Mark was also a rebellious teen. He was kicked out of school for doing drugs. I think a lot of his Gibbs were kind of a little rebellious. Bellius as teenagers. Oh, I think that's part of growing up. For a lot, it comes with the territory.

Sure. Right. Mark wasn't sure what he wanted to do with his life until he adopted a German shepherd named Gunther. That's a perfect name for a German chapter. It really is. And German shepherds are great dogs. They are.

I've had a few of them in my life. Except for the shedding. They shed like crazy. A lot of dogs shed, though. But other than that, they are amazing dogs. They are. It was this dog that gave him meaning and purpose. Mark trained Gunther to become a search and rescue dog.

And I think Gibbs was at that point that he realized his passion. And he pursued dog training as a career. And this was how Mark met his future wife, Linda Uptight. CBS described Linda as tall, beautiful, and rich. Linda was looking for a dog trainer and found Mark in the phone book. Although Mark was infatuated with Linda, she really wasn't interested in him because she thought he was arrogant, but she did admire his extensive knowledge of dog training.

From what I understand Gibbs, Linda and Mark were complete opposites. And she came from money. He didn't. Yeah. Linda is the daughter of Wallace Opdike, a wealthy businessman and co-owner of Washington State's biggest winery. Linda received an elite education and Mark dropped out of high school.

But they shared interest in dogs and the outdoors. And even with all the differences, they quickly fell in love. So what's the old saying, Gibbs, right? Opposites the track. Sure. And that seems to be the case here after about three months. The couple opened up a dog training business on Kiket Island. This was a private island owned by Linda's family.

So, you know, when we said she had money, she had money. Yeah, I missed those days of having that private island. Right. You had your own private island. Yeah. He was really private. There was Gilligan, the professor, Marianne, the whole bunch was there. Skipper was pretty cool. Skipper.

Linda took the dog swimming and did massage therapy while Mark focused on the training. And I mentioned it, right? He had some celebrity clients. Mark trained dogs for members of Pearl Jam and Nirvana, movie maker Cameron Crow, Starbucks chairman Howard Schultz, and Mary. outfielder, Ichiro, Suzuki. So these are some big names, right? When you're talking about bands, Pearl Jam and Nirvana are huge, pretty big.

Cameron Crowe, great filmmaker, Starbucks chairman Howard Schultz, he's got some money. Yeah. And Ichero is a great baseball player. All of his clients said he was gifted at training dogs. And by 2002, Linda and Mark were making almost $1 million a year. So I get it. She had a lot of money. Right.

Probably to help start it up. But it sounds like together, they built this into something pretty big and profitable. They were doing well. After 11 years together, the couple finally got married in 2002. And I know some people go that route. I don't know if that's the norm back, especially back in that time period. Yeah. To be with someone for 11 years before you get.

get married. Maybe it's just I'm thinking back to, you know, how my wife and I went about it. Right. You know, we dated for a year. We were engaged for a year. And boom, we were married. I think that's probably closer to the norm than, then it would be to say we were together for 11 years and then got married. Maybe Mark was able to hold her off or maybe she was able to hold Mark off for a while and finally gave in. One of them held off the other. Yeah. Is your way of thinking? it was said that Linda's father, Wally, approved of the marriage, but Nancy Corbyn, her mother didn't. She didn't like Mark. She told CBS, Mark is not a choice I would have made for Linda from the beginning. Mark showed an arrogance where he wanted to isolate Linda all bad signs. And I

would say Gibbs, normally that is a very bad sign, right? And a lot of the cases that we've done, where a man has isolated his girlfriend, his wife from her family and friends, it's not worked out real well. It's not. There has been a reason for the isolation and that reason has not been a good one. Now, Linda later told CBS that she regretted not listening to her mother because after the wedding, she said Mark started to show a darker side. Linda said the last few years of being in a relationship with him was incredibly difficult.

The more the business began making money, the more obsessed he became with money. I would buy maybe a $5 item at the grocery store and he would be in a rage about it. For example, an avocado. That was too much money. It really upset him. I recognized Mark was really somebody different than I had thought he was. He was enrages and he had tantrums all. the time every day. And it was very, very difficult to live with. I saw him becoming more aggressive

with people, for example, on the property. So I thought this was interesting, Gibbs, because this is something that you would normally see when people get married after knowing each other for a very short time, right? You don't really know the person. You get married very quickly, but they were together for 11 years before they got married. Yeah, so it really shouldn't be any surprises. Yeah. Any surprises popping up. That's what my thinking was, but obviously it had something to do with the marriage.

Yeah. And that can happen, right? A person is one way and then all of a sudden they get married. Yeah. And they start to change a little bit. They do. Yeah, that can happen for sure. I've seen it.

In 2005, after three years of marriage and 14 years together, Linda decided to leave Mark. She later told CBS, I decided I could not be in the marriage with Mark anymore because it just continued. The abuse escalated. And I really literally felt like I was dying. Okay. That's the case. Yeah.

You need to get out. Linda told Mark that she was leaving him. And those conversations don't always go over well. One side is going to be upset. And it was Mark. He got extremely angry and told Linda that you've got war. I'm not going to grant this to you. You're going to have a big fight on your hands.

Linda made the decision to move across the mountains to Winthrop, Washington. She allowed Mark to stay on the island and take over the business. And from what I understand Gibbs, she never even received a buyout. You know, she told outlets that she just gave everything up. Because she wanted to have a fresh start and just get away safely from Mark. Sometimes that's just what you need, man. You just need to move forward, forget about the past. And if it means that you have to give up some things, you give them up just to get to that point where you feel like you're in a better place.

Yeah. And maybe she had the luxury of having more money than others. So certainly helps. That would help and just walking away. Right. Most people couldn't just walk away and give up their half or whatever it is of a business that, that they had built up. But it also may show you or at least provide a little bit of insight into how badly she wanted to move on, that she was willing to give up, you know, part of this successful business that the two of them had built up together. But instead of a fresh start,

things got worse for Linda. You know, there for a time, Mark was calling her 50 to 100 times a day. And he left threatening messages, such as, you know, this is war, this is goddamn war, you've wrecked my life enough.

I mean, this is brutal stuff. Apparently Mark drove all over Washington, trying to find her. In some of his messages, he threatened to hunt her down and ruin her life. live. I mean, he even traveled like 150 miles through the Washington wilderness to find her house.

Yeah. So, you know, I already mentioned it, right? Stalking. Okay, we're into that territory. Now, you're leaving threatening messages. Not too hard to save those messages and later play them back for police or whoever, a judge to get a restraining order. I mean, he did scare her. Yeah. I I do believe that she was scared. Linda later said all of a sudden I looked up on the hill and I see Mark Stover hunkered down with a hunting rifle pointed right at me through the window looking through his scope. That would be scary. Well, I mentioned it earlier, right? He was an avid gun collector.

He liked to go hunting. My assumption is he was probably proficient with guns and especially rifles. But to see anybody looking down a scope with a barrel pointed at you would be disconcerting at the very least. Yeah. And it kind of escalated from here. Another night, Linda said she was laying in bed when Mark walked into her bedroom with a gun. She said he put the gun on the pillow next to her head, got down on his knees and begged her not to leave him. Hey, you mentioned it.

She was in fear. You know, I don't think there's any doubt. She was fearful for her life. And I think after this, she contacted the Skagit County. Sure. Also seems to me to be a strange way to try to get somebody to come back to you. The begging, I understand. The bringing in a gun and setting it down on the pillow next to your loved one's head.

Yeah. Okay. Maybe you're sending the wrong message there. Right. Now, Mark's family disputes this information. Mark's sister told CBS, I think that some of the stuff. could be true, might be true, but it was hard for my brother to lose someone he loved. That was difficult for him and he would take a while to find his bearings and move on. Mark's family accused Linda of

baiting him. They claimed that Linda had an affair with the best man at their wedding and they said Linda did this to knock his feet out from under him. And Linda has admitted to this affair, but insisted it happened after she and Mark separated. So as Ross would say, they were on a break. They were on a break. According to her, you know, one of the things that I do find interesting is you have different sides, right? Different family.

Sure. They obviously have different opinions on the relationship. And I think that's only natural because they're probably getting their information from the side that they're close to, their family member. They might be getting half the information. They might be getting one side of the information. Mark began spying on Linda and this guy that she had the affair with.

He called her and told her in detail. Everything that they did one evening. Linda occasionally still saw Mark on her outdoor security cameras, sometimes wandering around her property at 2.30 a.m. I think by this point, she was living in constant fear that he was going to do something to her. Well, from his past actions, probably so. In 2007, Mark finally agreed to a divorce. He left Linda the message, you got your goddamn divorce.

But I better not ever find out that you are in possession of those wedding pictures. And you know I am a guy that can hold a grudge until I'm dead. And you know what? I can hurt you too. And I know how to do it. Okay. That last part is very threatening. It is threatening and would be alarming to anybody that received it. The holding a grudge part I get. I hold a grudge. Sometimes you do. For long periods of time. It doesn't mean I want to hurt anyone. But, you know, when you leave a message that says, I can hurt you and I know how to do it. Yeah. that's not even a veiled threat. I mean, you're basically coming out and saying, watch out.

Or you better be, you know, you better be keeping your head on a swivel at all times because I'm coming to get you. Yeah. You made me remember the 2008 baloney sandwich grudge that you had. Oh, yeah. That one lasts at a long time.

Yeah, that's too long. I really still can't figure out why you got so upset over that. So obviously, Linda was relaying this to sheriff's deputies. They wanted to arrest Mark, but they didn't have enough evidence. Linda started taking self-defense classes, shooting lessons. She started buying guns. Gibbs, she purchased over 20 firearms.

That's a lot. That might seem extreme to some. Linda said she didn't want to be a helpless victim. She prepared herself to shoot Mark if he broke into her home. On Mark's 56th birthday, he left Linda the message, my world's falling apart. This may be my last birthday. I don't know what I'm about anymore,

but I'm about to give up. And I think that type of message is scary in a different way. You've already had the threatening type of messages. Now you're hearing someone who sounds like they're at the end of their road. You combine those two and that's a very dangerous situation. it really can be. And it was shortly after this that deputies finally got the evidence they needed to arrest Mark in late 2008. A neighbor spotted a white station wagon parked at Linda's house. A man was stealing trash from her trash cans. The neighbor approached him and asked him who he was.

He said he was John and had permission to take the trash. So this neighbor called Linda, she called the sheriff's office. A deputy came out, pulled Mark. over saw the trash in his car and arrested him. Mark took a plea deal and got one year probation, but he was ordered to surrender all his firearms. So he was really just wanting to go through her trash to snoop on her? I'm thinking. Yeah. My first thought was these trash cans had to be up near the house, right? Sure. Because once they are put out for trash, is that a crime? Yeah. Maybe it is in some places and other places not? I don't know.

I think so. At least I know the area I live in, when you put your garbage cans on the curb, anybody can go through them. Well, and I think we've covered a number of stories where police are able to go through trash cans, no warrant needed,

because, okay, once you put it out there, it's kind of free games. It's for the taking. But that may be different in different places, or these trash cans could have been, still technically on her property. Mark's family insists that he never threatened Linda again after this.

They say by the summer of 2009, he had finally moved on. He relocated his business to Anna Cordes and began dating a new woman. Okay, those two things do sound like moving on. Yeah. Now, whether it's true or not, I don't know, but that sounds like a person that has moved on. Yeah. You know, Gibbs, for many people, getting financially healthy means dropping the weight of credit card debt, but where do you start when it feels like a never-ending cycle? Well, Upstart can help you pay off your existing debt quickly and easily with a personal loan so you can start living your life.

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Mark's niece told CBS, when Linda took my uncle's guns away, that was it for him. She knew how much he loved to hunt. That made him completely done with her. It was like she was trying to pull him in, push his buttons, and perpetuate the drama. But Linda was still afraid of Mark. She searched for a home security expert and found a guy by the name of Michael Oakes. Michael Oaks is a former writer and inventor with several patents and over 200 published articles. He's also a guy Gibbs who specialized in hand-to-hand combat.

It's always helpful. He had trained police in the past. He even trained some military personnel in close type hand-to-hand type combat. He sounds very much like you. I know you've published a lot in your life. You hold a number of patents. Several. And you've trained some elite forces in hand-to-hand combat.

Yeah, we'll grove. Gibby. You change it because you can't say the real name. Newspapers originally reported that Michael Oaks was Linda's personal bodyguard, but he later cleared that up on CBS, telling them that, no, that wasn't accurate. Linda never paid him to guard her.

He analyzed her home security and made, suggestions for improvements. But the thing is, they began to spend more and more time together. And eventually they fell in love. Michael was divorced with four children. His children have described him as an excellent parent, genuine, caring, and loving. He and his children moved in with Linda not that long after they started dating. But Michael's ex-wife told CBS a very different story about him.

She said, Michael Oaks had a dual personality. By day, he was a family guy. And in his head, he had this whole other reality, this action hero persona. Michael saw himself as a protector of his children, of his family, and of all the people who couldn't defend themselves in the world. But Gibbs, it was around this time that Mark Stover began to feel as though someone was out to get him. On August 3rd, 2009, someone made an anonymous phone call to the Skagit County Sheriff's Office. The caller told a 911 operator. There's a crime that's going to take place in the morning. The last name is Stover.

The 911 operator asked this person, is there someone with you? Why are you whispering? And the caller said, this is very dangerous. Carries a gun. I wish you guys would do something before he. kills somebody. Okay. That doesn't sound good. Does not sound good at all.

But there's not a whole lot of information there, except for the last name is Stover. Police pulled Mark over the next day. They found a metal box on the undercarriage of his car, which contained marijuana and cocaine. Mark was not arrested pending further investigation. Now, Mark believed someone planted the drugs. He suspected Linda or maybe her father, he hired a private investigator named Lee Heeran to investigate. Mark told her he wouldn't be surprised if they wanted him dead. And apparently he even told his new girlfriend,

she will not rest until I'm dead. So think about this Gibbs. This case is really kind of twisting and turning. It really is. Because in the beginning, Mark Stover is this great guy. Right. And then he becomes this kind of obsessed.

stalker. Yeah, once they get married. And after and after the marriage ends. Now Mark is feeling as though he's being stalked. Yeah, it's been flipped. Mark decided that since he didn't have any guns, he should buy an attack dog. So he purchased a female guard dog and named her dingo. And this guy was an excellent dog trainer. Right. So dingo was well trained and extremely aggressive to anyone Mark considered a threat. You know who you don't want to attack is a top-notch dog trainer who has a trained attack dog. That would not be good. That would not go well. No. For you. But it was shortly after this that Mark disappeared and was never seen again. On October 28th, 2009, one of Mark's employees, Amber Baker, showed up to work early sometime before 8 a.m.

the dogs were barking uncontrollable. And as Amber approached the house, she saw blood on the driveway. Now, what she assumed was that dingo had killed something. She went to the back door and noticed it was locked, which was unusual. Mark almost never locked the door because he had his guard dog. Now, I don't know why you wouldn't do both if you thought somebody was possibly out to get you, unless you just were tempting someone to come. come in. Come on in and meet my dog. Exactly. What's your dog's name? Dog.

Amber turned the handle, but she didn't knock. And then she made the decision to leave the house. She later realized that Mark's killer was most likely still inside the home. And I think in her mind Gibbs, she thought if she had gone in, she may have been killed as well. Stephanie poor, another employee arrived shortly after Amber left. She said, saw Mark's white station wagon backed up to the door. She thought she saw Mark going into the house leaving, putting things in the back of the car. This person that she saw who she thought was Mark, then got in his car and tore off down the road. Now, Stephanie thought that was strange, but she decided to start work as she normally would. When she entered the home, she was hit

with the powerful smell of bleach. She looked down and saw three special. bots of blood. By the next day, Mark still hadn't contacted anybody. Stephanie returned to the house that next day and found dingo growling and upset. She appeared to have injuries to her face. Stephanie took dingo to the vet and learned that she had been shot three times in the face. So, I mean, I think at that point, Gibbs, obviously everyone begins to believe that something terrible had happened. Right. The police searched the lakes. They searched the ocean surrounding Mark's home, but found nothing.

What they did find was blood on the walls and in the carpet of his house. Sheriff's deputies linked Mark's disappearance to a report from October 28th. On October 28th, Tammy Gilden and her mother reported a trespassing white station wagon on the summit park grange. Tammy saw a man move. moving a large object wrapped in plastic into a black SUV. And right away, she suspected that it was a body. So she called police and gave them the license plate number.

So that's something right there. You know, you wonder how many people would kind of happen upon this scene and see this bag and say, oh, I think that's a body. Now, everybody listening to this podcast probably would. I think they would. But when you think about it, you know, okay, could it be something else? Sure. But a body, we're talking about a man here. It's got a pretty recognizable shape, I would think, especially, you know, if you saw it wrapped up in plastic, depending on how thick or thin the plastic was.

Yeah. The police pulled over the driver for trespassing. And the driver turned out to be Michael Oakes. He appeared nervous and he was. wearing sunglasses, a deputy noticed a large bundle in the back of the car, but didn't perform a search at that time. He gave Michael a warning and sent him away. Michael then visited his ex-wife. She later said that he looked disheveled and frumpy. She asked if he was okay and he answered, no, I think I'm in trouble. He then told her that if the police had seen what was in his car, he would go to prison for life. Okay, giving out quite a bit of information.

there. Yeah, I think so. Maybe disclosing some things that you probably shouldn't. Michael then drove 160 miles back to Linda's house. He arrived just after 11.30 p.m. He didn't tell Linda anything, but said, I'm having the worst day of my life. And Linda didn't really know anything was wrong until she received an email from one of Mark's former employees. The email said Mark is missing. Blood in house, dingo almost dead. Okay. Not in the. email that you really want to get. No. On October 29th, Sheriff's deputies came to speak to Linda and Michael.

Linda seemed confused and repeatedly asked the deputies what was going on. But they were mostly interested in speaking with Michael. Chief Deputy Dave Rodriguez asked if he'd been in Anna Cordes on the 28th. Michael said yes. He'd been visiting his ex-wife. But at a certain point, he got agitated and said, said that he had to go find his medication. So he went to his car, took out a bag and threw it down an embankment. Well, apparently this didn't go unnoticed. I don't know why he thought it would go

unnoticed. Yeah. Deputy Rodriguez saw him, went, retrieved the bag and inside found a 22 caliber gun. The bag also smelled strongly of bleach, smelled just like what it smelled like inside Mark's home. So he arrested Michael on suspicion of murder. On October 30th, based on her attorney's advice, Linda refused to speak to detectives. Michael Oaks was released on bail, but he and Linda were forbidden from contacting each other. Michael did an interview with CBS prior to his trial. In it, he claimed that Mark Stover had been harassing him for months.

And he said he was forced to kill Mark. Mark in self-defense. He said, Mark Stover sought me out and told me that I would do what he wanted. From that point for almost six months, I lived in constant fear. The guy that knew hand-to-hand combat trained special military forces. That guy who lived in constant fear? Yeah. Okay.

Of Mark Stove. Well, let's just talk about self-defense. Sure. For a minute. If you come at me with your K-bar. Yeah. And I have to shoot you. Okay.

Let's call that self-defense. Yes. If you call me on the phone and say, I'm sharpening my K bar for you. Okay. Pretty threatening. It is. And I get my gun, jump in my car and drive to your house and wait for you to come out and shoot you.

Not quite self-defense. That's all defense. Michael Oak said that in mid-2009, Mark Stover confronted. him at a local Costco. He said Mark told him that he knew Michael was in a relationship with Linda and that she had his wedding photos. Man, he really wanted these wedding photos back. He really did, man. Michael said that Mark then described what Michael's daughters were wearing that morning, indicating that he was following them. He told Michael that if he got the pictures, his daughters would be okay. Michael said he was terrified, but he didn't want to go to the police. So he taught his children how to

defend themselves. He put a gun in his oldest child's room and said that if she heard an intruder, she should shoot them. But Michael never told Linda what was going on. According to Michael, Mark was obsessed with getting the photos. He said he met with Mark a few more times to tell him he didn't know where the photos were and that Mark threatened they, he said, he was. And that Mark threatened that he could quote reach out and touch Michael's children. But Michael says he never told Linda because he didn't want to upset her. And he didn't call the police because he didn't think they could help. He later testified, I would have gone to the police a year ago.

But then I thought, what am I going to say? I don't have any evidence to prove that I had just been threatened by Mark Stover. Michael decided he was going to carry a weapon at all times. He started wearing a Kevlar vest. At the end of September or early October 2009, Michael said that he received a call from Mark. And Mark requested to meet at a church at midnight on October 24th. Michael agreed, but he told Mark that he couldn't find the wedding photos. Michael later said he was acting different.

The other times, he seemed very much in control, frightening but in control. But this time he seemed different, very agitated, not in control. I thought he might take a point. punch at me or pull out a gun. Michael said Mark ordered him to meet at his house at 7 a.m. on the 28th. He told him to park at the church and walk to the house. On October 28th, 2009, at 2.30 a.m. Michael was captured on Linda's security cameras leaving her house. He admitted that he was going to Mark's home in Anacortis. He later said, I was supposed to deliver the photos to him or else. My children were frequently mentioned as the else.

Michael said he didn't have the photos, but he went to Mark's house because he wanted to reason with him. He brought a gun in a bulletproof vest because Mark was getting progressively less patient. But if you felt all these threats coming, why wouldn't you have gone to the police and say, hey, I feel like I'm being threatened. My kids are being threatened over these wedding photos, which we don't have. Why keep going to all these meetups? Yeah, I mean, according to him, he said, what am I going to tell the police? Well, tell him just that. Yeah.

I think my big question is, if you really felt as though your life was in danger, why would you go to this guy's house on his turf to try to reason with him? Right. That doesn't make a lot of sense. But, you know, you have to take all of this with a grain of salt, right? a lot of this is according to Michael Oakes. Obviously, Mark Stover can't give his side of the story here. According to Michael,

he decided he would store some supplies at a water tower in case he needed to escape. He stopped at a Walmart, made his purchase. The water tower was surrounded by barbed wire fencing. So he stored his clothes and other items in the bushes. Michael then went inside. Mark's home. Mark was agitated about the wedding photos. Michael said Mark left him alone and then returned

with a gun a few minutes later. Michael lunged at him. They began wrestling. He said they both got shot, but Michael's vest saved him. Michael went outside, shot Mark's dog with his own gun and then tucked Mark's gun into his vest pocket. Michael later said he caught me totally by surprise and shot me in the vest and he was not wearing Kevlar and he was shot. So this is quite a story. It's a bizarre story if it really played out that way. The way that Michael Oaks said it did. Right. So when we go back to Stephanie Poor, right, that was one of Mark's employees who thought that she saw Mark speed away in his station wagon. Well, that was actually Michael. He put on Mark's hat and coat to disguise himself. He moved Mark's body to Mark's car where he found some plastic sheeting and duct tape.

He then transferred Mark's body into his car and a witness saw him. So Michael drove to a local channel and threw Mark's body in the water. He said later that he decided not to call the police because he feared they wouldn't believe him. And I think that's probably a pretty valid fear. Yeah, I think so. I mean, the story as he related doesn't seem like the most plausible thing. You got to admit that. Yeah.

I think his story might have been more plausible to the police if he would have gone to them prior to this incident occurring. Yeah, I mean, go back to what he has said, right? He didn't want to go to police. He didn't think they'd believe him. He wasn't sure what he would even tell them in the beginning. but I think you're absolutely right, Gibbs, telling this story after the fact that you've been afraid for many, many months,

you're walking around with a gun and a Kevlar vest. You have your oldest daughter with a gun in her closet saying, shoot anybody that moves. It's a strange, bizarre story. There's no way around that for me. Michael described loading up Mark's body into the car. as the worst moment of his life. He said, I wanted him to be alive still. I would never harm anybody for

any reason except to defend my family myself. Michael drove to his ex-wife's house. And according to her, he said he was hired to do it. And it was a job gone bad. Michael claimed that he had actually told her, I had a meeting. Something went dreadfully wrong and I will be blamed for it. So we definitely have some differing accounts of what transpired during this conversation. Now, before the trial, Linda told CBS, Michael would never murder anybody. His accusers don't know him and they don't know the whole story. But I think investigators at some point, Gibbs, started to suspect Linda was involved as well. Not too hard to maybe figure out what Michael's motive was.

Linda telling him that she was fearful of Mark, okay, Michael's the protector, right? He's going to step in and protect Linda. They even suspected that Linda told him to put on Mark's coat and hat and that she gave him Mark's routine as well as a description of his car. Police also suspected that Linda was the one who arranged to plant drugs in Mark's car. Ultimately, though, Linda was never charged with any crimes in the case. But police went back and listened to the audio from the August 2009 call to 911. They had Michael's ex-wife listen to the audio and she insisted that the voice on the call was his.

Michael Oaks trial began on September 29th, 2010. The prosecution pieced together all their evidence at trial. They didn't have a body. So what they needed to do was prove that Michael killed Mark and that the murder was premeditated. They argued it wasn't possible that Mark was harassing Michael because he never reported any threats. Authorities believed Michael went to Anna Cordes on October 24th. Security footage from Linda's house shows him loading up two rifle cases. Michael told Linda he was going on a hunting trip. On October 28th, Michael was seen at a Walmart near Mark's home shortly after 5 a.m. He purchased items at 520. But I think it's the items he bought Gibbs that looked very suspicious. He bought ankle weights and anchor rope, shin guards and a

camouflage sweatsuit for things that don't seem to all go together. No. But for things that you can make an argument could be used in the commission of a stealthy murder. And then later in the disposal of a body. Yeah, it's got to be problematic for his defense. Well, and it also, you know, shows you that you can get just about anything at Walmart. Yeah. And don't forget, you're always on tape. And you are always on tape. How many cases have been solved by Walmart security footage or at least Walmart security footage evidence has been used at a trial. Yeah. Quite a few.

Yeah, very much. I mean, a number of them that we've talked about. So what this means based on security footage is that Michael left Linda's house at 2.30 a.m. and arrived in Anna Cordes around 5 a.m. He most likely got to Mark's house around 6 a.m. We talked about it early. right? Mark's employees arrived before 8 a.m. And they saw him at the house. A detective gave an account of possible events. The detective's theory was that Mark led his dog out that morning.

She saw Michael approaching. So Michael shot the dog. This caused Mark to come outside. Michael shot Mark. But Mark was able to make it inside his home. Michael killed him in the hallway. which explains the blood on the hallway walls. The police searched Mark's home after the murder. They didn't find any guns. The prosecutor argued that Michael shot his own vest. Two-stage a shooting. Michael went to Mark's house, wearing a bulletproof vest,

and carrying two handguns. He also brought along tools that could be used to help hide a body. He was planning violence. Detectives found Mark's blood in his car. which they found abandoned at the Swinomish tribe casino near the Swinomish Channel. The prosecution believed that Michael dumped Mark's body at a dock that was just about one mile from Mark's home. This is where the witness saw him that we talked about earlier. Michael's defense attorney argued that Michael did prepare to defend himself,

but that doesn't prove he was planning to murder anyone. Michael didn't want to report to harassment because he knew Mark was close with law enforcement. He also was worried about his children. The defense questioned Mark's girlfriend, Teresa. She was asked if she knew that Mark had stalked both Linda and Michael before he had disappeared. The defense asked her if Mark traveled to Montana. While he knew that Linda and Michael were vacationing there, she was also questioned about her knowledge of Mark asking,

one of his employees to carry a gun for him. Teresa denied knowing any of this. Michael admitted in court to shooting and killing Mark Stover, but he insisted it was self-defense. He said Mark first lured him to the home by threatening his children. And then he had to shoot Mark after Mark pointed a gun at him. Afterwards, he wrapped up Mark's body in plastic and dropped him into the swanomish canap. according to the Seattle Times, he said he decided to get rid of the body because I just didn't think they would believe me at all.

And again, that keeps coming up and I keep understanding it because I think Gibbs as I go through this case, it's hard to believe some of the things that Michael Oaks has said because could they have happened? Sure. Do they seem likely? No. No. They don't seem all that believable. I'm not saying couldn't have happened that way. The defense wanted to introduce testimony from Mark's former employee, Megan Matea.

Mark invited her on a hunting trip in August 2009. He asked her to carry his gun for him. She testified at a hearing. It was my understanding he was going to go get a gun out of his safe from wherever he was storing it. But Megan wasn't allowed to testify. testify because there was no way to prove that her story was true. So to me, Gibbs, the defense needs to put a gun in Mark's hand, right? Mark has to have a gun for Michael's story to line up. Exactly. And I think they were hoping to do that using this woman Megan and having her come out

and say that Mark had other people carry his gun for him. Because he, he wasn't allowed to. Michael tried to explain the camo clothing by saying he was going to use it if he had to escape from Mark and his guard dog. He was going to run to a water tower, tie the weights to the top, and then throw the rope up to reach the water tower ladder. Well, let's face it. He has to explain these things that he bought at Walmart. Right. There's no way around it. You're going to have to come up with something. Why did you buy these items? Right. So to me, by the time you know that a guard dog is after you, are you going to have time to put on this camouflage outfit? I don't think so. No. And you've thought ahead about this water tower so much that you thought the best way is to

fashion like a grappling type hook out of these ankle weights. and wrote. I mean, he's really trying to sell it. Well, he has to. There's no way around it. Right. As a defendant, you have to try to explain things away. The problem is, to me, if I'm on this jury, it would be very hard for me to buy a lot of these explanations. The jury deliberated for four days. On October 21st, 2010, Michael Oakes was found guilty of first degree murder. He was sentenced to 26 and a half years at the Washington State Penitentiary in Walla Wall. In April 2020, almost 1,000 Washington inmates were released from prison early due to the COVID pandemic. Columbia Legal Services, a nonprofit organization sued the state of Washington

on behalf of prisoners calling for the release of those at risk of becoming ill from the coronavirus. They called for the release of inmates. with health problems and those over the age of 50. The state agreed to release inmates over age 60 who were convicted of nonviolent drug crimes and who were also near the end of their sentences. Michael Oakes was in his 50s. And I think gives this really concerned Mark's relatives. They were fearful that the state of Washington was going to let Michael Oakes out.

And I remember you and I talking about this, you know, as it was happening. There were some pretty high profile killers that, you know, were thought that maybe they would get out because of the coronavirus. I think some were almost let out by mistake, if I remember correctly. Pretty big name. Yeah. Yeah. If I remember that was the Green River killer, right? Yeah.

They almost mistakenly led him out. But as of now, Michael Oaks is still incarcerated. Now, there has been a lot of speculation over the years about this case. Some have speculated that Linda's parents actually hired Oakes to kill Mark Stover to protect Linda. Neither Linda nor her father have ever been charged in relation to Mark's murder. But this was a very big story. You know, it made national headlines. It was featured on Dateline, 48,000.

hours. We talked a lot about 48 hours and some of the stuff that was set on that show. Really, a lot of the questions have been answered. But there's one big one that remains. And that is where is Mark Stover's body? Yeah, where is it now? Well, it's never been found. I mean, obviously there is a reason why a lot of killers dispose of bodies in water, especially larger bodies of water or, you know, water that leads out into larger bodies of water. I mean, it's hard not to think, Gibbs. When you look at the items Michael Oaks purchased at Walmart that the ankle weights in the anchor rope.

Yeah. Weren't used in some fashion to weigh his body down. I mean, it's really hard not to think that. I don't know how you could not think that. Now, whether Linda was a part of this, I don't know that we'll ever know. Obviously, police had never found the evidence that she was or she would have been prosecuted as well. It could possibly be that she had no idea and that Michael Oaks acted independently of her

may be thinking he was doing her a favor. Yeah. Maybe, you know, he did kind of have this white. night type syndrome where he felt as though he needed to be the protector. He needed to save the day. So he would eliminate the threat to Linda or the threat perceived to Linda. Right. Obviously, there was a threat to Linda at one time. There was. Mark Stover had done some pretty ominous things, right? He had said some things that were threatening. But it does seem at a certain point, he went on with his life. Did he really want those wedding photos that badly?

Man, he seemed like he really did. Well, according to Michael Oakes, he did, right? That's the thing about this case. If Michael Oakes is to be believed, then the thing that Mark Stover wanted more than anything else in the world were these wedding photos of he and Linda, right, a relationship that had burned and crashed, a marriage that didn't last. what two or three years and at that point it seemed as though he was was getting over it why does he want those wedding photos as a reminder of something that didn't work and don't you think if they had them they would have gave them to them yeah get it over right okay this obviously is a big deal here's your wedding photos yeah if it really was that big a deal to him i think if they had them

they would have just handed them over but you know it's one of those stories where and let's Let's face it, quite a few of them are like this. Yeah. It's hard to get the entire story because one of the main principles is murdered. And so you're really hearing a lot of it from one side. Yeah, we'd love to get obviously Mark's side, but like you said, he's not here to give it. Yes, he can't. But that's it for our episode on the murder of Mark Stover.

We've got some voicemails, Gibbs. You want to check those out? Yeah, let's hear them. Hi, Mike and Gibby. This is Tasha from Eastern Connecticut. I listen to you guys all day long as I trudge through people's yards delivering mail. Go blue. Fergie, I definitely heard Gibby's belch in the outro music of episode 250, Peewee Part 1.

I don't think there's nearly enough information for a full case, but the case that likely catapulted my interest in true crime had to be a local case from 2004, where a man from my hometown of Plainfield named Michael Schechtman beheaded his girlfriend, Heather Mullins Kelts, in his home and drove around with her decapitated head in the passenger seat of his car before getting into a high-speed police pursuit through Rhode Island, after which he shot himself in the head as police approached his car. Heather's headless body would be found in his home. He lived within three miles of my childhood home.

It was a crazy case locally that I never forgot. I am definitely team Gibby, but we would be nothing without you, Fergie. Love you too. Stay safe and keep your own time ticking. It's that belch that did it for me. That's why she's team Gibby. Yeah. I'm just glad somebody came forward and said that they actually heard it because you tried to deny it

and have denied it for a very long time. Yeah, I still don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, I know. But you just admitted it. Did I? Yeah. Did I really admit it? You did.

You'd be a terrible witness. I would be. Hey, Fergie. Hey, Gibbs. I just listened to the key car, the car episode, and I wanted also comment on the hometown episode. I loved the follow-up coverage on that hometown episode. That really hit me hard, and it hit me well and made a lot of sense.

The people were very, very understanding. about everything you guys had said. I thought it was a great, great story. And the car one, you touched on more on that one than any other podcast I'd ever listened to about it. So I just wanted to let you know, thanks. My name's Gino. I'm in Logan, Ohio. So have a good day. All right. We got Gino and Logan, Ohio. Yeah. So that hometown episode, I think I've said it before, Gibbs. You and I thought that would be a regular thing. And it was very cool to do. It was. The problem is we just realized we couldn't control the audio from the people on the other side. But it was that follow up, man.

I remember that. I was so scared when, you know, the parents reached out to me. I was so worried that they were going to be upset with our coverage. And it wasn't anything like that. No. And it was emotional. I remember crying. I wish we could do some more of that.

but yeah that was kind of a that was one that I'll always remember hi guys this is coline murphy I'm a Patreon member from Idaho I started listening last fall and you guys are terrific I recently listened to an episode where you discuss at the end whether Idaho people get tired of the cater we do not and yes we do have other things so you should check us out when I was eight years old there was a murder in my hometown of show show in Idaho. The very small town will not much happened, so this had quite an impact. In fact, I would wake up with screaming nightmares because of this for a couple of years. The victim, her name is Melba Gray, was the mother of my classmate. She was murdered by Danny William,

who was convicted of second-degree murder in 1971 and went to prison in Idaho, and yet he was released after eight years on the condition he'd get a job. He trained as a butcher and moved to which of South Kansas, where he murdered Francis Ellison, and he murdered Francis Ellison, and he is in prison still in Wichita. The details of this case and the prison system are interesting as well as Madden. You might want to add it to your list. Thanks guys.

I'm totally team Mike. So say safe and keep your own time taken. All right. Thank you so much. Thanks for being a Patreon member. We really appreciate that. That sounds like a case that we definitely need to make sure we have on the list. Yeah.

And I never get tired of potatoes. You don't. French fries. baked potatoes any potato lemon shrimp what's going on Mike and Gibby this is Troy

from Baltimore currently living in North Carolina just I wanted to say I found you guys this podcast it's great I really really enjoy it just listening to James Rupert and I set their part about the

lollies and the knobbly wobblies or whatever he said man that was hilarious it had me died guys. Just wanted to say, good job, man. Keep up to good work. And stay safe. Keep your own time checking. All right. Thanks, Troy. We appreciate the voicemail very much. Yeah, we do. I don't remember what we said. That's the problem with having so many episodes. It's really hard to go back 50, 100, 150 episodes and remember exactly, you know, something that we said. But I like it when people get a kick out of it. I do too. Enjoy it. Oh, we had mailbag. Carrie says,

send us each in a homemade cutting board slash serving tray. They're fantastic. Yeah. And I'm using mine to cut up my soap risada and cheese. Right. As you know, I like my salami and cheese. I know you do. But we appreciate it very much.

All right, buddy, that is it for another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and Gabi, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.