True Crime All The Time - The Murder of Nikki Vanderheyden
Episode Date: February 18, 2019In 2016, Nikki VanderHeyden was a 31-year-old mother of three. She went out one night with her boyfriend and some friends. The next day Nikki's body was found in a farmer's field. Two men wer...e arrested in connection with her death, one of those being her boyfriend Doug Detrie.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the circumstances surrounding the death of Nikki VanderHeyden and the search for her killer. This was an investigation and trial that focused heavily on technology, including information gathered from cell phones and a Fitbit. The technology helped clear one man and convict another.You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationSponsors:Audible.com/truecrimeTakeCareOf.com and use our promo code TCATT50 See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Transcript
Discussion (0)
Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 118 of the True Crime All the Time podcast.
I'm Mike Ferguson, and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson.
Gibby, how are you?
118, man.
It's crazy, isn't it?
It is crazy.
Me, I'm all right.
Got a cold, but, you know, that is what it is.
All right, don't get all Eeyore on me.
Eeyore.
You have been sick a lot lately.
I'll be all right.
Are you taking a multivitamin?
Yeah, take the vitamins and line them up and multi-earned.
way and eat them. And a multi way. I should get some Flintstones back in the day, you know.
It'd be better than nothing if you're not taking anything. Yeah. I thought I was eating healthy enough.
Maybe not. You might not be eating enough. I eat a lot, though. Do you? No, not really. I didn't think so.
Yeah. All right. So, let's start out with shoutouts. Okay. Patreon shoutouts. We had Diane Hanson.
Hey, Diane. Becky Beards. Becky Beige. Becca.
Vika. Amy Wright. Hey, Amy. Christine Salon.
Oh, Salonja.
I like that name.
I do like that.
Oleg homing.
Hey, O'le.
I don't know if I'm saying that right or not.
Julie Hickenbottom.
O'Eigham bottom.
The old Hickenbottom.
Yes.
Jerry McRoberts.
Hey, Jerry.
We had Jade from Canada.
Thank you, Jade from Canada.
Then we had Tara from Canada.
Well, thank you, Tara from Canada, too.
These are two very proud Canadians that just want to make sure we know they're from Canada.
Hey.
Hey.
Take off, eh.
see Johnette McCray
Hey John
Elizabeth Baker
Thank you
Jennifer Winkler
That's awesome
Winking at her
Ghost like Swayze
Ghost like Swayze
That's all you have to say
Tanya Warner
jumped out of our highest level
Thank you
Lauren Gill
Awesome
Elizabeth Oringo
jumped out
to our highest level
Orengo
Aaron Roberts
Hey Aaron
Kristen Gaggans
Gaggen
Gaginstein
Gaggenstein
Gagin
Gaginstein
Johannes Romstad Finninger.
Just Johannes.
I'm taking a leap on all three of those.
I'm just going to go with Johannes.
And then we had Jessica Youngblood.
Hey, Jessica.
So appreciate that new support.
And then if we go back into the Volk Gibbs.
Let's go back.
This week we selected Skaren.
Skaren.
Been with us a long time.
Boo.
We appreciate that.
We appreciate all the new support, the long time support.
Really do.
Next week we have a new Patreon-only episode coming out.
Yeah.
It's going to be a good one.
We'll be really good.
We had a lot of PayPal support as well.
We had Yosei Castillo.
Hey, Yossi.
Our friend Lottie Kvist in Denmark.
Lati.
Jimmy Rice.
Hey, Jimmy.
Jimmy.
Jimmy.
of the West Memphis three case, the murders of Stevie Branch, Christopher Byers, and Michael Moore.
It's good stuff.
Make sure you check that out.
Don't forget about CrimeCon.
What's that?
It's a kind of a cool thing where a lot of people come, learn about crime, get to meet
their favorite podcasters.
Yeah.
Down in New Orleans.
Well, I guess you'll be there.
I think you'll be there too.
Oh, yeah.
I got my room already.
But, you know, if you're going, if you're buying your badges on.
on the CrimeCon website.
Use our promo code.
Crime all the time, 19.
Or message me and I'll give you Mike's credit card
and don't matter what you pay.
You'll just pay for it with my credit card.
I appreciate that.
I got it.
Don't worry.
Just call me.
Make sure you check out the new merch that we have out there.
We've got about six different new t-shirts, variations of t-shirts.
We've got some new leggings that my wife's actually really excited about.
I think you're excited about it.
Do they go good with your furry outfit?
They do.
Okay.
I like them.
Yeah.
They got, they'll be a hater.
What do they say on the leggings?
True crime all the time.
There you go.
I wonder.
You'll be wearing them for CrimeCon.
I also ordered, and this has been a long time coming.
If you remember way back in the day, Gibbs, I said I was going to get some whistles.
Right.
I finally found one that I liked.
Okay.
I ordered it.
I think it's going to be here sometime next week.
Awesome.
So that'll go up sometime next week.
True crime all time.
Stay safe.
Keep your own time ticking on the whistle.
Keep your own time blowing.
No.
Whistle?
Keep your own time ticking.
But look out for all that stuff.
Good stuff.
Get it.
Got magnets out there.
There's probably a lot of things that if you haven't been out there in a while,
there's some new stuff out there.
But let's jump right into this case.
You know,
we're talking about the disappearance and murder of Nicole Vanderheiden.
Nikki, as she was known by her friends and family,
went out with her boyfriend.
and some other people one night.
They were going to a bar to see a concert.
It was going to be a fun night.
But as events unfold, Vicki's left on her own
and disappeared that night
to be found the next afternoon murdered.
Yeah.
You know, you think you're going out for,
got rid of the kids, got a sitter,
going to go out and have some fun.
Well, you didn't get rid of the kids.
No, no, no, no.
You got someone to watch the kids.
You got someone to watch the kids.
That would be a whole.
Another podcast.
Different type of episode.
Yeah.
But you know, you get excited.
You finally get the chance to go out on the town.
And it just goes bad.
It goes south really fast.
And you mentioned it, right?
Getting someone to watch the kids, not always the easiest thing to do.
She had three kids.
Yeah.
And finding someone that is trustworthy enough to watch three kids.
kids. Not always that easy to do. Never. Nicole Meyer was born in Green Bay, Wisconsin on March 29th,
1985 to Steve and Vicki Meyer. Nikki graduated from Denmark high school in the class of 2003.
That makes me feel somewhat old. Well, it made me feel old when you said she was born in
1985 the year I graduated from high school. Yeah, it makes us feel a little bit old. A little bit.
a little bit. But Nikki didn't stop her education after high school. She went on to the University of
Wisconsin at Green Bay, received a Bachelor of Science degree with a double major in science and
education. Wow. It's impressive. It's like my double major. In what? Mathematical.
BS and dishonesty. Wow. No, I'm just kidding. Wow. Wow.
Making up stuff and...
Mathetician.
Yeah, that's a good one.
So she got that in 2010.
She was a substitute teacher for a while in the Green Bay Area Public School system.
Nikki had three children.
We mentioned it.
Michaela and Tyler from a previous marriage.
And the man that she was married to had the last name, Vanderheiden.
Right.
So that's where that name came from.
Then she had a six-month.
month old named Dylan, whose father was her current boyfriend. This is a guy by the name of
Doug Dietrich. The pair had met in 2015. And it wasn't long after they met that they moved in
with each other. A lot of great things said about Nikki Vanderheiden. There was talk Gibbs about the fact that
you know, she was selfless, always striving to give the best to, give the best to. You know, there was talk gibbs.
her kids, make sure they were protected and cared for in the best possible way. Yeah, she was even a
nature lover too. She'd love being outdoors. They talk about how she'd love to hike. And she was
into fitness. She basically had a organic and holistic approach to her life. You know, it was said that
Nikki found peace and joy in the most simple things in life. A lot of things that many of us
take for granted, hiking, taking a nature walk, going to the zoo. That is what really gave her
joy. She had an unbelievable zest for life and she had this type of spiritual energy. Everyone said,
Nikki just lived life to the fullest every single day. Well, she also was just a loving and caring person.
She really was, and she had this smile that anytime she met somebody would just light up the room.
You know, she just was one of those type of people that made you feel warm.
She had such a positive attitude and way about her and really radiated love and light.
Tiffany Hoffman, a close friend of Nicole Vanderheiden's, says that is what she and others who knew Nikki will remember about the woman they dearly loved.
She was just fun and somebody that was very, very easy to talk.
to and she loved her family, loved her kids, and I know her family always will want her memory
to be that of her, just the wonderful, genuine ball of fire.
Ball of Fire.
So that was one of Nikki's good friends talking about her through the media.
Again, echoing a lot of the same things that you and I had said.
She did say one thing that really caught my attention, and that was that's how her
family wants her remembered. And I think you would. I'm thinking myself as a father. If something were to
happen, I want my family remembered as the beautiful people they were inside and out. You know,
I don't want them remembered or defined by whatever tragedy may have happened. Now, on May 20th,
2016, Nikki and her boyfriend, Doug Dietrich went out with some friends, like we mentioned right up
front. They were in the town of Green Bay. They made some last minute plans to get a babysitter
so that they could do this, right? So that they could join some friends, go out on the town.
They went to a bar called the watering hole to see the band Steel Panther in concert.
No, don't even know what that band is.
You don't?
Still Panther?
I don't know if I've ever heard them.
I'm pretty sure they were on an episode of ridiculousness.
Okay.
And you know, that's a show that I watch.
Sure.
Religiously.
Right.
If it's the same band that I'm thinking of, and I could be wrong about this,
they are very 80s hair spandex.
Really?
And again, I could be wrong about my bands.
So you would like that, because I know you were in the big hair and,
spandex. But now you're talking about my girlfriends during the 80s. You're not talking about what I was
wearing hopefully or come on. I think that's what you were hinting at. I think you were wearing spandex.
I did not wear spandex. You wanted to wear spandex. But I think the key to this night and you
mentioned it a little bit, Gibbs, this was something that Nikki was really looking forward to, right?
getting a babysitter, not having to worry about the kids, being able to let loose a little bit,
have fun with friends.
Now, right before the concert ended, Nikki and some friends made a plan to go to another bar
called the Sardine Camp so that they could continue the night.
They wanted to dance.
They wanted to keep the party going.
Sounds like a good time.
I'm sure.
Nothing wrong with a little dancing.
Or as you say, cutting a rug.
Cut in a rug.
I don't say that.
But her boyfriend, Doug Dietree, didn't leave with Nikki.
He was busy at the watering hole catching up with some friends.
And he told her that he'd catch up with her and the friends that she went with a little bit later.
Yeah.
He knew where she was going.
Yeah, I'll see him a little bit, baby.
I'm right here.
And the police know that Nikki got to the sardine can because they actually were able to
retrieve some video of her there that night dancing out on the dance floor and having a good time.
But at a certain point in the night, Nikki got upset because Doug didn't show up to meet her at the sardine
can. She's getting upset. She started sending him text messages and he wasn't responding. So she started
to send him more text messages and the tone of these text messages. And the tone of these text messages.
as they often do.
Change a little bit, you think?
They start to change.
They become a little less, hey, hon, what's going on?
Where you at from, you know, what the heck is going on?
And I don't know how mean these text messages were, but by all indications, she was getting
upset with Doug.
Because I think at a certain point, Gibbs, she started to believe that, you know, maybe Doug
is hanging out with another woman. Maybe he's messing around. Yeah. Dancing with somebody he shouldn't be,
maybe? Maybe I think maybe some of those thoughts were going through her head. She tried to call him
around 1130 p.m. No answer. Well, the problem with that is immediately after that, she has her
friend call him and he picks up. That really makes her upset. I am putting my wife in this situation.
and can't even describe to you, Gibbs, the wrath that would come down on me if I were to do this.
It would not be good.
It would not be a good scene.
You might have to pull her off me.
She's going to be upset.
Not literally.
She's not going to attack me.
She might gouge your eyes out like the episode we did last week.
Like the poppin sisters.
That's right.
She wouldn't physically hurt me, but it would be a.
verbal beat down. Let's put it that way. It wouldn't be pleasant. So Nikki makes a decision.
She's ticked off. She is going to leave the bar. She's not going to wait for Doug to show up.
A friend of Doug sees her leaving the bar upset. He chases after her and asked her not to leave.
You know, hey, come back, hang out with us. Doug will be here. But she's not having it. She's had enough.
and she left.
This same friend of Dugs would later say that Nikki continued to walk away,
walked up the street, made a left turn, and then vanished.
That's the last time that he ever saw her.
Right.
Now, what we know and what comes out later is that she went to a bar called Richard Craniums.
That's a good name.
Yeah.
Dickhead.
Dickhead.
Now, Doug eventually made it to the sardine can only to find out that Nikki had left.
So he grabs his friend Greg and Greg drives them around the area trying to find her.
You know, he doesn't know where she's at.
Greg has no idea either.
They don't have any luck locating Nikki.
So they drive back to the sardine can and the two have a couple of drinks.
And this is verified.
You know, police can see this on the video surveillance tape.
Now, after that, Doug and his friend, they headed towards Doug and Nikki's home.
On the way, they continued to look for her, didn't find her.
They got back to Doug and Nikki's house sometime around 2.30 a.m.
But it's just the very next afternoon.
A local farmer by the name of Richard Van de Hay called 9.5.
called 911 to report something shocking that he saw while he was working his farmland.
When the police got to Van de Hay's farm, he originally told them that he thought he saw a dead deer,
mostly because of, you know, what he said was the sight of reddish hair, but he quickly realized
that it was a young, bloody woman lying in the weeds.
You and I talk about it all the time, Gibbs.
Imagine just stumbling upon a horrific crime scene, a dead body.
It would be a nightmare.
It would be.
Even though you have nothing to do with it, it's on your property.
And you know me with my record, I'd had to get the heck out of there.
Well, you would just run.
I would have to.
You wouldn't have called police.
You'd just turn around.
I'd have to. I couldn't stay.
Got your Jason-born thing of identifications, picked a new one, and gone.
Ready to go. And I can flat-out run five miles an hour for two seconds.
I don't seem like much.
It's not. I remember he was in the movie, and he's like, he goes, I know I can outrun everybody in this bar, and I can I can run a, uh, with something crazy, something like.
Right.
Flat-out run for so many miles per hour for 10 minutes or something.
in the worst shape of my life, but I'm 99.9% positive that I can run five miles an hour for two
seconds. Yeah. I was good for that too. I'm in pretty decent shape. I think I'd make it maybe a little bit
longer than that. I think, I think you were selling yourself short there. Yeah. But getting back to
this scene, it's horrific. Nikki Vanderheiden was naked with the exception of the fact that she had her
socks on and a wristband. But essentially, she's found naked. The sheriff who was out at the farm
noticed major trauma on the side of her face. She'd been beaten. He could also tell that she had been
strangled and we'll find out later that Nikki had been raped. But at this point in time,
they don't know who she is. The sheriff has to begin the work of trying to
identify this naked woman that is obviously the victim of a brutal crime. And it's not easy at first.
You know, we mentioned the fact that she was beaten. She had some very serious wounds to her face.
You know, some of the research Gibbs indicates that she really was not recognizable. But deputies get their first
lead at about 4.30 that afternoon when Doug Dietrich called 911 to report his girlfriend,
Nikki, as missing. Which seems like a long time, knowing that, you know, he came home from the bar the
night before, knowing that she's not there, right? Maybe he was just thinking that she probably went to
her friends, Heather's house and spent the night. Yeah, I mean, let's talk about it. You think it's
strange. I don't know if it is all that strange. She's ticked at him. He knows that. He also knows that
he didn't really handle things very well the night before. That's true. He got caught doing something.
We don't know what that is, but at least, at the very least, it was not responding, not picking up when she called.
Right. He knows she's very upset with him. And maybe, you know, in their past fights is what she does,
that she goes somewhere else for a while and comes back later that day.
And that could be true.
And we don't know that.
We don't.
So is it weird?
Is it strange?
Maybe,
maybe not.
What I will say is for me, if my wife doesn't come home that night, it's not going to take very long.
It's not going to take me until 4.30 the next afternoon to sound the alarm bells.
You always said if she didn't come home, you would have a, it would be like a party.
Right.
But before that, I would need to.
sound the alarm bells. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. Gotcha. I would never say that. But I think it's an important
point to bring up, right? Everyone's relationship is a little different. Yeah. You know, you're exactly right.
How they handled things after an argument. Yep. So the police interviewed Doug. And he explained to them
what happened the night before, told them everything, told them that he went looking for Nikki,
couldn't find her. So he got dropped off at his house about 2.30 a.m.
and he went to sleep.
Doug said he slept till about 6 a.m.,
which is not a lot of sleep.
That's like Gibby sleep.
Yeah.
About three hours.
That's a good night's sleep right there.
But he adds that he got up once in the night to check on the baby.
Now, we asked the question, was it strange that it took that long to report?
Nikki missing.
I think investigators thought it was.
From the very beginning, why did he wait so long?
to give us a call.
Number one, she's the mother of his child,
a very young baby.
I think they felt Gibbs that he should have acted with a much greater sense of urgency.
But like we just said, right?
They don't really know how their relationship is and maybe how they, you know,
they handle things a little bit different.
So the police are questioning Doug.
And at one point they asked him,
so when you left the sardine can and,
and drove around for another 30, 40 minutes,
did you do anything to cause her to go missing?
Doug said no.
He did not cause Nikki to go missing, not at all.
I think the issue with this conversation Gibbs is the police know something
that Doug doesn't know at this point.
And that's that they had already found Nikki's body,
you know, earlier that day.
And they also believed that she had been.
murder. So now the police know for sure who the victim is, and it's Nikki Vanderhiden,
and they have to go about the awful task of notifying her family. So once her friends and family
find out, obviously gives their grief stricken, but I think they're also shocked and
disturbed by the brutality of Nikki's murder. Now, after police,
informed Doug that they had found Nikki, they continued to question him. And I think very quickly,
he became the prime suspect. Like most husbands and boyfriends do, detectives get a warrant to
search the home that he shared with Nikki. And they make some interesting finds. They found
blood on the floor of the garage. They also found some blood.
inside Nikki's car on the headliner.
They found some on the side of the seat.
They even found some in the backseat.
Now, Gibbs, one thing we haven't mentioned yet,
and it comes out later,
but during the examination of Nikki's body,
they found a footprint on her back.
And inside the pair's home,
police found a pair of Air Jordans
that appeared to match this foot.
footprint. And what's more, it looked like the Air Jordans had blood on the bottom of them.
Pretty suspicious stuff. All right, Gibbs, let's take a quick break to talk about our sponsors. And the
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Later on that evening, a police officer spots some things at a nearby highway ramp.
Not that far from the home that Doug and Nikki shared.
And it turns out to be some of Nikki's belongings.
They discovered her clothes, her cell phone, and her purse.
It's a good find for the police.
No, it's big, yeah, it's big time.
But police aren't done finding things around their house.
They found some blood and clumps of blonde hair in a neighbor's yard.
This was across the street from Doug and Nikki's home.
They also found a bloody phone charging court.
So I think Gibbs, by this point, police are already starting to formulate
their initial theories. And one of those is that Nikki and Doug at some point early that morning
were at the house. They got into an argument. It escalated. They got out into the yard and they
started fighting. And Doug strangled Nikki with this phone charging court. Now, they don't have any
evidence that proves that happened, but I think they're theorizing about what could have happened.
at this point. But the one thing they do is they send all these items off for DNA testing.
So they're going to wait for the DNA results to come back. But they're also going to arrest
Doug Dietree. Now they don't charge him with Nikki's murder, but they detain him for about two weeks
on what was listed Gibbs as a probable cause finding. He had a million dollar bond for that
period of time while this DNA is is being processed. But at a certain point, right, with,
you know, a couple of weeks past, they realize they can't hold him any longer. You know,
first of all, additional evidence starts to come in. These DNA results start to come back.
And police are shocked, you know, at these DNA results because it shows that the blood in
Nikki's car is not hers. It also showed that the blood in the garage was not even human blood.
Well, even the shoe that they tested will come back that that's not blood as well.
So they thought they had a gold mine of evidence. Turns out it's not. They got nothing. And it makes
sense why they have to release them. Sure. I think they thought, and somewhat rightfully so, he had something to
do with Nikki's murder.
But the evidence that came back didn't support it the way they thought it was going to.
Now, one thing did come out of this arrest of Doug Dietrich.
At the time, he was arrested.
He was wearing a Fitbit.
I don't know if you have one of those Gibbs.
My wife has one.
She wears it all the time.
Yeah, I don't have one.
Maybe I'd get one.
I refuse to buy one because I just assume it would tell me, you're not fit.
It buzz all the time.
You need to get up, get up, move around.
Please don't wear me until you at least reach a certain level.
An acceptable level of fitness to where you should be wearing a Fitbit.
You need to take more than 500 steps a day to even put me on your wrist.
Exactly.
Yeah.
But this Fitbit becomes a big deal in this case because the police take it and they're able to pull some data off the Fitbit that's stored.
on it, which is critical because the data is going to show tracking where he was at certain times
of the night.
And what it also does, it tracks the heartbeat and the steps.
And it's going to show the police at the time of her murder that he was actually asleep.
And during that time, he took less than 20 steps in an hour.
So again, it just confirms that there's no way that he could have been.
participating in anything to do with her murder.
If he was wearing the Fitbit.
There's the key.
Because there's nothing that says,
I can buy a Fitbit,
and I can put it on somebody else.
There's no way the Fitbit knows it's not me.
He could have put it on one of his sleeping kids.
Could have.
Could have.
I'm not saying he did that.
No.
No, you're right.
I'm just saying, you know,
and we'll get into it more when we talk about the trial.
There is a lot made out of this Fitbit evidence.
I want to make sure that I might get my two cents in on it.
Yeah.
I do find it interesting, you know, with the technology behind the Fitbits and the Apple watches and the Alexa devices and things like that, how they all are starting to play or can play a role in investigation.
It's one of those things.
Be careful what you're doing.
Yeah.
If you're a criminal.
If you're a criminal wearing technology that you may not fully.
understand what it's doing behind the scenes.
Absolutely.
Now, what I will say is that in the eyes of the authorities, the Fitbit data supports Doug
story.
And they end up clearing him essentially, you know, based on this information, along with the,
DNA.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, it wasn't just the Fitbit.
Yeah, the DNA was a pretty big problem.
It was.
But it's a big thing for Doug, right?
because he's got a six-month-old son that he has to raise, and he's dealing with the loss of his girlfriend,
and he wants to help find her killer.
Yeah.
Let's get the efforts off of me now, and let's put him where they need to be.
Let's find the right guy.
Yeah.
And it allows him to mourn.
I think you don't really get a chance to mourn when you're immediately arrested for the death of your loved one.
No, you're too busy fighting essentially a legal fight to clear your name.
Most of your attention is focused on that.
So we mentioned that police found Nikki's clothing near a highway ramp.
And they sent that off for DNA processing as well.
And it finally came back and the DNA showed a male suspect.
But apparently there wasn't enough DNA to develop, you know, enough of
a profile to figure out who this person was.
You know, in the course of this investigation, police reviewed a lot of things.
They reviewed phone logs of a lot of different people that had interacted with the pair
that night.
They reviewed cameras from any place they could find around the area where they knew
Nikki had been that night.
Yeah, I think they just want to try to get any, anything that could help them out at this point.
Yeah, I mean, they're stunked right now at this point in time.
They're stretching for sure.
But then police get their first real solid league.
And it came from some DNA that was found on the socks that Nikki was wearing that night.
And it resulted in a much bigger sample than what came from the rest of her clothes.
It was enough of a DNA sample.
to process it through the national database.
And when they did, they got a name to match to the DNA.
The hit came back as a man by the name of George Stephen Birch from the state of Virginia.
So it's big time.
Oh, it's huge.
This is what they've been waiting for.
But police have to find out who this guy is.
And they got to find out where he is.
He's not on their radar, has not been.
on their radar.
No.
From the beginning of this investigation, they ultimately find out that there's a George
Birch who moved from Virginia to Green Bay, Wisconsin on March 1st, 2016.
Yeah, he got lucky enough.
He had a friend that was living up in that area that offered him a free place to stay,
you know, no rent, allowed him to use his SUV while he was trying to get a job.
So think about that, Gibbs.
this guy George Birch had been in Wisconsin for just a little over two months.
Yeah, just barely, man.
Pretty, pretty new to the area.
Prior to the murder of Nikki Vanderhiden.
Right.
And Gibbs, you mentioned that a friend was letting George Birch use his SUV turned out to be a red Chevy blazer.
And this is very important because this same.
Red Chevy Blazer was involved in a hit and run sometime after Nikki's murder.
And then just a couple of weeks after the murder, it was mysteriously burned in a fire.
So police are very curious about what's going on with this SUV.
Why does this man, George Birch's DNA match the DNA found on Nikki socks?
So when authorities put George Birch's name into their system, this fairly recent hit and run report pulled up.
They began doing surveillance on him while they continued their investigation.
And one thing they learned is that during this hit and run investigation that had occurred earlier,
George Birch had turned over his cell phone to the police.
So investigators in the murder of Nikki Vanderheiden, they submit a request to get copies of the GPS information from his cell phone.
And they also put a request in to get information from his email account.
The police were excited about this fine because they knew with the Google dashboard, they would be able to get a report basically telling them every site that he visited.
how long he was on those sites,
whatever videos he looked at,
if there was on YouTube,
wherever,
they're going to get all this data.
The Google Dashboard Program also combined cell phone tower data,
local Wi-Fi hotspots,
and GPS locators to calculate the actual location
of the phone at any given time.
That's pretty intense, man,
if you think about that.
Well,
we talked about technology.
Police know that this type of data
could provide them with invaluable evidence.
I mean, if you know what's somebody searching,
if you know based on all these things,
where their phone it was at this point, that point,
and that point, you know,
you're assuming that that phone's traveling with them
is pretty good information.
So the investigators followed procedures
and they got a subpoena to gain access
to all this data from Google directly.
And it's critical.
They need this.
It's so important.
And they have to make sure they do it the right way because otherwise if they get to trial,
the judge might not allow it.
So eventually they do get these reports back from Google.
And one thing gives a notice right away.
Birch had a lot of interest in this case.
He had searched extensively about the investigation into the murder of
Nikki Vanderheiden. He read a lot of articles about the discovery of her body.
Going back to the GPS data, the police learned that George Birch was actually at the bar,
Richard Craniums on the night, Nikki went missing and was murdered. And that's huge. But it doesn't
stop there. Even better Gibbs is probably that the data shows George Birch left the bar
at 2.30 a.m.
and he drove to Nikki's house.
And he stayed there for about an hour.
I mean, this is very precise stuff.
You know, the technology today can pinpoint you pretty accurately.
And it does.
Or at least your phone.
And the assumption is you have your phone with you.
Yeah.
And it really does pinpoint it.
It will show that he was at the site where the body was discovered.
And again, it will pinpoint that he was,
on that exit ramp on the expressway where the police officer found the purse, the clothes,
and her phone.
This is all very damaging to him.
There's no other way around it.
Oh, extremely.
And then I think to kind of ended, the data showed that Birch arrived home at 4.22 a.m.
So just another nail in the coffin, really, because it's going to identify this is his address that he calls his residence.
So if you ever said, that's not me.
That wasn't my cell phone.
Well, wait a minute.
Why did it pull in at 422 at this house where you sleep every night?
And then was probably there until you got up and went somewhere else the next morning.
I think this was enough for police because in September about four months after Nicole Vanderheiden's murder, George Birch was arrested and charged with,
first-degree intentional homicide.
Well, the man who's been arrested and now jailed and but not charged in this case had recently
moved from Wisconsin to Virginia.
But George Birch quickly became a suspect as investigators began following the evidence.
One of the key things that we needed to do following Mr. Birch's arrest was interview the
people close to him to establish a timeline, identify other locations for possible evidence.
Through our investigation, we are now able to place Mr. Birch on South Broadway.
when and where Nicole was last seen.
We're also able to place Mr. Birch
at the location of the homicide,
the location Nicole's body was found,
and the location where additional evidence was recovered.
So that's authorities Gibbs,
saying essentially what you said,
but then they come out and give a little bit more,
some more details on the cell phone evidence.
George Birch became a suspect after DNA evidence
taken from Nicole van der Heiden's body was matched to samples taken from Virginia and in a Green Bay hit and run accident during this morning's preliminary hearing.
The lead investigator in this case, Brown County Sheriff's Detective Brian Slinger, testified the DNA match came through the state crime lab.
It was later confirmed from a comparison sample taken from Birch at the Brown County Jail.
Now Slinger also testified that data taken from Birch's cell phone acted like a GPS and placing Birch near the location Vander Hayden's body was found.
So a report comes out after they have the preliminary hearing.
He's arrested.
They have their preliminary hearing.
There's enough evidence to go to trial.
I would say so.
Pretty strong.
Pretty strong.
But that trial wouldn't happen for a little while.
It started on February 19th, 2018.
I think going in, the prosecution felt that it had a very strong case.
But Birch has a defense team.
They're going to try to do their job, convince the jury.
that the prosecution has the wrong man on trial,
they're going to try to shift the blame back to Doug Dietrich.
That's going to be one of the defense's main goals.
Because really all they need to do is try to show reasonable doubt, right?
Is what they're trying to achieve here?
Sure.
And I mean, if you're the defense, that's what you're trying to do.
But I do think this is a somewhat of a strange trial.
It's almost a trial of technology in a lot of ways.
Some of the technology that we've mentioned, the prosecution has Doug Dietrich's Fitbit data.
We mentioned that.
What that Fitbit data shows is that assuming he was wearing it, he was at his house.
Yeah.
And sleeping for a good period of time.
More importantly, during the time that she was determined to be murdered.
No, I think that's the key.
You're right.
They also have the Google dashboard data, which you talked about.
Sure.
Which shows George Birch at essentially all the wrong places at the right times.
Yeah.
If he is the one that has his cell phone in his hand.
Which we assume he does.
Right.
As a defense team, I would think this is going to be pretty hard data to refute.
I think it would be extremely hard to exactly right.
I don't even know how you end up attacking.
unless you can come up with something where, you know what, he lost his phone, somebody else
had his phone.
But at the end of the day, you still have to explain why this lost phone pulled in your driveway
and stayed there for the rest of the night.
And on top of that, that your DNA matches some DNA that was found on the victim.
Yeah.
All going to be extremely difficult.
Doug D.Tree testified at the trial.
and he said that he and Nikki went out that night to have fun.
He added that they typically didn't drink and really didn't drink to the extent that they did that night.
That was unusual for them.
And I think they drank at a fast pace, which probably got them a little more buzzed, a little sooner.
Faster.
Yeah.
Kind of like you and your Frank the tank.
Oh, I can go from zero to 60 and no time.
No time at all.
he told the jury that when Nikki went on to the next bar, which I believe was the sardine can,
he stayed behind drinking.
He did smoke a joint.
And he talked about the fact that Nikki was upset with him because he was still hanging out with his friends at the other bar.
Yeah, some of those text messages were pretty brutal.
No, they were.
I think, you know, she was in some of the messages accusing him of being with other women.
some accused him of being abusive.
One specifically said, you hurt me all the time.
Now, she's also drunk.
Yeah.
She's mad.
She's lashing out.
But how much of that is true?
We don't know.
You know, sometimes people are more honest when they're drunk because they don't have
anything holding them back.
Like no inhibitions.
Yeah.
Doug told the jury that, you know, at a certain point, he did receive.
respond to her text messages.
He was trying to be nice.
He was trying to diffuse a situation.
He even said he responded at one point with an LOL, but he also added that he was puzzled.
He really didn't understand why she was so upset and why she was sending, you know, such
harsh text messages.
Right.
Doug also told the jury that at one point, Nikki messaged him.
that she had met someone she knew, but she didn't say who it was.
And he didn't know who it was either.
No, he never did know who it was.
Doug also said that, you know, a certain point, he messaged Nikki saying that he could come
pick her up, but he didn't hear back from her.
And he would never hear from her again.
And again, just like in his initial interrogation, on the stand, prosecutors asked him
if he had anything to do with her disappearance or murder.
And he said absolutely not.
But the defense cross-examined Doug.
They asked him if he had a good relationship with Nikki.
And Doug said they did.
But the defense produced a text from 10 days prior to the murder.
And this was a text from Doug to his mom saying that he was thinking of asking Nikki and the kids to move out.
Which is a little damage.
because it's conflicting to what he just said.
It is. And the defense also tried to introduce some other information, things that had come from previous girlfriends,
stating that Doug Dietrich was controlling. He was abusive. He would keep tabs on them, track them.
He was jealous. He was a jealous boyfriend. But in a ruling, the judge would not allow this information in.
The defense came right out and asked Doug, did he ever hurt her?
And did he hurt her that night?
And he said no to both.
The defense also called the couple's babysitter to the stand.
They asked her questions about what Doug said that night that he picked up the baby.
The babysitter said, I asked where Nikki was and Doug said she hit her head and she just wanted to walk home.
The babysitter wanted more information.
she asked Doug how Nikki hit her head. She said that Doug said, I don't know, she just hit her head.
Okay. Pretty strange, but that was her testimony. Now, George Birch made the decision to testify in this trial.
And the defense called him to the witness stand. He talked about how he was just a hardworking family man.
Now, what we haven't talked about Gibbs is George Birch was a big dude. Yeah. And he was. Sixth
foot seven, 250 pounds.
Yeah, he was a, he's a bigan.
But he said on the stand that he was a gentle person.
One of those gentle giants.
He was a gentle giant.
Now, he did admit on the stand meeting Nikki at the bar, Richard Craniums, and he said
that he was flirting with her.
He said she was flirting back with him.
And he went on to say that they flirted essentially.
all the way up until the bar closed at 2.30 a.m.
His story is that he drove Nikki the eight miles to her house and pulled up across the street
by the curb.
He says they sat there.
They talked for a few minutes.
They started kissing.
They started messing around.
George's story is that they had consensual sex in that Nikki laid down in the back seat as he
stood outside of the SUV by the passenger door because from his account he was too big he was
too tall to get in the backseat with her yeah did he you know just open up the passenger door
leaving it and open and stood right at the edge so that's a heck of a story that is heck of a story
but it gets better no you're right because he goes on to say that while they were having consensual
sex, someone knocked him out from behind. And the next thing he knows, he woke up laying on the ground
outside the SUV. So who does he say knocked him out, none other than Doug Dietrich. He also says
Doug has a gun pointed at him. Now, the only thing I would say at this point is, I find it interesting
that he said, Doug knocked him out, knowing that he's six foot seven and Doug is shorter than
that. Not saying that it couldn't happen, but, you know, that's a, that's a, that is a little bit of a
reach to be able to knock a six foot seven in the head. You know, you got to be able to get up there
and not only get up there, but get up there with a good advantage of giving that type of power
to knock somebody out hitting them in the head. Yeah, I see that. But I think from behind,
you know, you could reach up and pistol whip somebody six, seven, not that, not that tough,
I guess. I mean, I pistol whip you on a weekly basis.
every day anymore it seems like always from behind though because well my the odds are way better
that I'm going to be successful I fall for it every time too because you don't know it's coming
well there's mirrors everywhere I see it I'm like no he wouldn't do that again but as you can
kind of tell this thing's getting out there right from George's testimony he says that
you know when he wakes up he sees Nikki lying on the pavement
He sees lots of blood.
But then he tells the jury that while Doug Dietrich is pointing this gun at him,
he tells George to put Nikki's body in the SUV.
They drive out to the field, to this farmer's field,
and Doug makes him lift Nikki's body out of the SUV and carrier to the place where she would later be found.
But the hits keep coming.
Let's say just gets better.
It does.
Because George continues his story by saying,
after he dropped Nikki's body,
he lunged at Doug,
knocked him over,
took off running,
jumped in the SUV,
and he drove off.
And magically,
when he got on that ramp,
he said,
look,
I got to get rid of this purse,
his cell phone on these clothes.
This is a good time to do it.
I'm throwing them out the window right here,
right now.
Now let's not go to police and tell them what's happened.
No, because that would not make logical sense besides everybody else's mind.
And then the next day, George says he met up with some friends and they went fishing.
Because that's what you do after experiencing an event like that.
But a couple things.
George knows what evidence they have against him, right?
They know they have this GPS.
Right.
That's kind of nailing him to the wall.
So what a great explanation as to why he visited all the sites that he did, right?
I met her at Richard Craniums.
I took her back to her house, got knocked out.
Doug Dietrich forced me to take the body to the field.
That's what put me in the field.
Then I figured I got to get rid of this stuff.
That puts me at the freeway exit ramp.
You have to explain it somehow, Gibbs.
And he did the best that I guess he thought he could do.
The defense asked George why he didn't call 911.
Why did you go fishing?
Why didn't you call 911 that night?
Why didn't you call them the next day?
Why did you go fishing?
And George had a pretty interesting answer for them.
He said, you know, where I come from, you don't tell on people.
People get killed all the time where I come from for,
doing that. Yeah. That's his logical response. Now, George was from the Newport News, Virginia area.
Yeah. There's parts of that area that are extremely rough. Yeah. No doubt about it, but I don't, you know,
you're still a grown adult man and witnessed six, seven, two 50. Yeah. There were some people in the
courtroom during George's trial that we have to talk about Gibbs. It was the family of a man by the name of
Joey White. In 1997, Joey White was killed in Newport News, Virginia, and George Birch was accused of his
murder. These two guys apparently were neighborhood rivals. Now, the jury's not going to hear
any of this, right, in this trial, but the family made the trip. They wanted to see George
Birch on the stand, they wanted to stare at him.
They were upset because George Birch got off, didn't serve any time for the murder,
because in that case, he had another elaborate story.
Yeah, to the point that the mom, she told a newspaper, it really frustrate her because
the whole time he was telling this elaborate story, when the jury really wasn't paying
intention to him, he would look at her and give her this smirk. And she knew. She knew that he knew
he was getting away with murder. And she's never forgotten that. And she just wanted to make sure
this time he wouldn't get away with it. Now comes the prosecution's chance to cross-examine
George Birch. And this part for me, Gibbs, was one of the most interesting parts of the trial.
and I want to play a little bit of the district attorney and George Birch going back and forth.
When we got there, the light was on and she said the babysitter was up.
Why would that be a problem?
Why wouldn't you just ask the babysitter to go home and go inside?
Sir, I don't know. I've never been in her house.
I don't know her babysitter.
So Nicole would rather have sex with you in front of her neighbor's home
with your butt hanging out the door of the car than ask the babysitter to go home?
Sir, I don't know.
What did she tell you about how painful it was?
She didn't express that she was any pain at all.
Deep, soft tissue contusions to her mons pubis and abrasions to her left breast.
You heard the doctor explain those injuries and explained that they would be painful injuries,
even if they were consensual.
You heard that, right?
I believe that's what you said, but I'm not sure.
So there you get a sense of the back and forth between the district attorney and George Birch.
And we really haven't talked much about the medical examiner and what they said about the injuries to Nikki's body.
But we did say Gibbs very early on that she was not only murdered, but she was raped.
And you hear the district attorney talking about it, the injuries that were noted by the M.E.
To Nikki's genital area.
They were somewhat extensive.
but again, George is claiming that they had consensual sex.
The other thing that the district attorney kind of grills him on is his story about being hit
over the head, right?
If you were hit so hard, you're 6-7-250, somebody knocked you out with a blow.
Why don't you have any bumps, bruises, cuts?
Something to show for it, right?
You didn't have anything.
All the people that you went fishing with the next day,
when they were talked to, they said he didn't have any wounds.
Well, you know, George would tell the prosecutor, that's because I'm so tall.
They couldn't see the wounds because I'm six foot seven.
And then the prosecution hits George with something that is just straight out of logical common sense.
Why would Doug Dietry kill Nikki, but not kill you, George Birch?
why would he leave you around as a witness to tell the whole world that he killed this woman?
Yeah, because he had an opportunity to kill you when he knocked you out.
Sure.
That was his chance to take down the 6'7-250 giant when you were knocked unconscious for that period of time.
And according to George, he's already a murderer.
He murdered a woman.
Why would he not murder this man, George?
All he had to do was get the same phone cord to put it around your neck and strangle you while you were out.
Then the prosecutor hits him with his version of events, what he thinks really happened.
And he said, you drove her home from the bar thinking you were going to have sex.
But when you got there, Nikki wasn't going to do that.
She attempts to leave your vehicle and go into her house.
But you can't allow that to happen.
Your mood changes.
You get aggressive with her.
you grab the phone charging cord and you start to strangle her.
And you slammed her on the ground very hard many times as she tries to get away.
Because that's one of the other things that came out from the medical examiner was some pretty
extensive bruising on Nikki's back.
And it appeared as if somebody had almost stomped her.
with a big shoe, you know, coming down with a lot of weight on her back, to the point Gibbs
that she had blood misting on her arms. And the medical examiner thought that it was from, you know,
one of her final gasps or, you know, when the, when the force came down in her back,
tense pressure. The pressure caused blood from her mouth to shoot out. Right.
and land on her arms. It's graphic. It's unbelievable to think what this woman went through.
Well, it was brutal. I mean, the forcible rape, the strangulation, the beating, all of it. Just,
what a nightmare. And all occurred across from her house right there. From a six foot seven,
250 pound man jumping on her back. Yeah. But George continues to argue that, nope,
I was held at gunpoint.
I did everything I did because of that.
And at one point, the prosecutor gets to George.
You know, for most of the trial, he was pretty mild-mannered.
He was doing his gentle giant routine.
But at one point, the prosecutor got under his skin.
George got upset and his temper came out to the jury.
They could see what he was like when he got angry.
So after George's temper comes out, the prosecutor says,
So I just want to get this straight, right?
You were assaulted.
You were held at gunpoint.
You carried the mangled body of a woman to her final resting place.
And then the next day, you go out fishing with your buddies with a smile in your face,
not a care in the world.
So the trial ends, the jury starts to deliberate.
About 50 minutes.
into their deliberation, they had a question. Yeah, they would want to know if they could get a look
at the court that she was strangled with and some of the cords that they found in the garage the day
that they searched the property. And I think they just wanted to compare the cords and get a good
look at them. But it was just about a couple of hours after this question that they reached their
verdict. They found George Stephen Birch guilty of first degree intentional homicide.
he was sentenced two months later.
And during the sentencing, the judge said,
this family is destroyed and will never be like this again.
This is a crime that would, I believe, merit the death penalty.
And for that, you have to die in prison.
But they're in a state with no death penalty.
So the judge handed down the harshest sentence possible, life without parole.
And that's essentially it for George Birch.
unless something else comes back around some new evidence, whatever comes out.
But it's not the end for Doug Dietrich.
No.
Doug found himself back in court in July of 2018.
He was facing felony domestic charges and he pleaded no contest to second degree
recklessly endangering safety and false imprisonment, both domestic violence felonies.
And this is a case that,
involved in incident that happened nine months after Nikki was murdered.
Nikki's sister was living with Doug at the time, helping him raise his son.
It was February of 2017.
Nikki's sister and Doug went to a birthday party at a local tavern.
And while driving in the car, he attempted to touch her leg in a sexual way.
This is the way it was reported.
and she told him no.
And, you know, swiped his hand away.
Well, he got upset.
He sped up the car and refused to slow down or let her out of the vehicle.
He even ran through a stoplight.
Meanwhile, she's trying to kick out the windshield.
And this is what's finally going to get him to stop the car.
So for her to do that, she was very scared.
Doug worked out of a plea bargain where these charges would be
dismissed as long as he completed a 15-month agreement with the courts.
He didn't get into any trouble during that time frame.
He also was not allowed to go into any bars.
So we'll see, right?
This, he's still under this as of the time that we're taping this.
Yeah.
As long as he adheres to all the stipulations, they'll drop the felonies, dismiss them.
Which is a big deal.
It's a huge deal.
You don't want felonies on your record.
Now, he did have to pay a.
thousand dollar fine and he has a disorderly conduct offense on his record but that is small
potatoes compared to a couple of felonies very lucky i mean involving domestic violence that would
could potentially keep him from being employed able to rent something by you you know buy a gun
you can't buy a handgun there's all kinds of ramifications for having those type of charges but
That's it. That's the story of the murder of Nikki Vanderhaden. We've got some voicemails,
Gibbs. You want to hear those? Voice mails? Love voice mails. Hi, guys. I'm anonymous, but I wanted
to make a suggestion for a future episode. The Weaver family. Now, this is kind of crazy. I don't
know if you've heard of it, but Lord Weaver, the third, is in prison for murdering two young teen
girls and his father is on death row in California for rape and murder. He was a long-haul trucker,
so who knows really how many victims he has. And then Ward Weaver, the third stepson is also
in prison for murder. So that's three generations and there's a lot of sexual assault and
just all around really crazy family. So I think.
thought that might be interesting and just want to say really enjoy what you guys are doing
and stay alive, don't get murdered.
Good tip.
Good tip.
Yeah, we don't want to get murdered.
I will say weaver is definitely on the list.
I mean, how can you not do a case where you have three generations that are that jacked up?
Right.
Hi, guys.
This is Aaron from San Antonio.
I've been listening to you guys for a while now and thinking I wanted to leave a voicemail.
and if ever there was a time, I think it's now.
I was listening to the scorecard killer,
and I feel like I've become kind of unfazed by a lot of the killers
because it seems like there's a pretty consistent pattern
between what's happening amongst most of them,
but I just had to turn that off because I said what the F
so many times with all the sticking stuff and places
in people's hoo-hooos and no-nows.
So anyway, I just wanted to call and tell you guys,
I think y'all are awesome.
Y'all make my workday so great.
And keep your own time ticking.
We will keep our own time ticking.
So she had to turn the scorecard killer off.
But I love the way that she kind of said that.
It sounded like to me gives how Dr. Seuss would write a story about a serial killer.
Yeah.
There was some who-hos and some no-nows.
Yeah, it was perfect.
Yeah.
Good job.
You better not hung up on me.
Hello?
You better not hung up on me.
Hello?
You there?
Let me ask you a question.
Why are you calling my girlfriend in the middle of the night?
Don't make excuses, boy.
You tell me who you are.
Don't deny it, boy.
You better tell me the truth right now.
Don't even know what I'm talking about.
I am so angry right now.
You are getting me frustrated.
How long this been going on between you and her?
Oh, oh, oh, really.
You've been knowing what's going on, no doubt.
You've just been pranks by...
crankdial.com.
So this was an actual voicemail that we got on the line, and it came from a local number.
I don't know if it was a misdial or whatever.
That's funny.
But when I first heard it, I was like, oh, shit, Gibby, what have you done?
I was thinking, what did Fergie do?
What did Fergie do now?
Messing with somebody's girlfriend, and now they are ticked.
Man, getting us in trouble.
Kelsey, Bigger's calling again, and I just thinking of,
about something on my drive home from work.
I just want to let you all know how partial I am to your podcast.
I just began podcasting here, you know, within the last month.
And I have tried to listen to about three or four, maybe five different podcasts about
true crime, and I can't.
I get through about 30 minutes of that first episode I listened to,
and I just come right back to K-Kat or unsolved
because they just don't tell the stories the way that you all do.
I just want to say y'all do a great job,
and it was nice to get in my car on my way home from work
and listen to one of your stories
that just helped to relax me and calm me down,
and now I feel like I can go home and try to have a better day.
So thanks for all you all do for your stories.
I hope you all have a wonderful to your new podcast on Monday.
Thanks, guys.
All right.
Thank you, Chelsea.
We appreciate that.
Chelsea's a good supporter.
Yeah, I hope your day gets better.
Yep.
Hey, Mike and Gibby.
This is Jennifer Audrey from Texas.
I hope you guys are not frozen in a block of ice up there.
I was just listening to the podcast about Skylar and Eve.
And I just wanted to say that at the end, when you listen to the voicemails and the things
that you said about Stephen, just really warm my heart.
It just made me love you guys even more.
Thank you so much for being so accepting and kind to someone who's suffering with mental
illness.
Most people don't, most people don't feel that way.
And I just think you guys are amazing.
And I just love you even more than I ever did before.
And that's saying a lot because I loved you so much before.
Anyway, if you're cold, I hope you're eating working.
I know it's like minus 50 up in the northern state.
This week in Texas is supposed to be a balmy 70 degrees.
Sure, there's no global warming.
Don't worry about it.
Anyway, I love you guys.
I'll talk to you soon.
Bye-bye.
Well, it actually hit 50 here today.
Yeah, which was good.
Felt good.
But I will say, yeah, we love Stephen.
And actually, I think Stephen has a voicemail on Unsolved.
Yeah.
Right now.
Good one to go listen.
to where he busts my chops a little bit and I get a kick out of it about time somebody does I know
you're too chicken shit to do it I keep telling you to you just leave it out I don't cut it out
you cut it out you edit me all the time I keep waiting for you to be on the podcast as you are in real life
I end up doing like 50% of the podcast but when you hear it you get like maybe 10 words out of me
I cut all of divvy out yeah all right everyone oh we had mailbag too
Oh, yeah. Let's do a mail bag.
So Cheryl Reed sent us another big package.
Awesome.
She sent us shirts that say just another sightseeing jackass, which are pretty cool.
Yeah.
A bunch of beef jerky, some great honey.
Love it.
Local honey.
And then Ivy Lee sent us some specialty beef jerky from San Francisco.
Awesome.
So thank you all very much.
Love it.
All right.
Gibbs, that is it for another episode of true crime all the time.
So for Mike and Gibby.
Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.
