True Crime All The Time - The Murder of Phil Hartman

Episode Date: July 1, 2024

By 1998, Phil Hartman was a household name after a successful run on Saturday Night Live and several movies. He married his third wife, Brynn, in 1987. Brynn had aspirations to be a model and an actress, but her career never took off like Phil's. Few could have believed that the couple's lives would be ended the way that they were.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the murder of Phil Hartman. On May 29th, 1998, successful actor and comedian Phil Hartman was killed by his wife, Brynn Omdahl, in a tragic murder-suicide case. They appeared to be a happy couple to outsiders, but those in their inner circle knew they fought often and had tension in their marriage. But what exactly went so wrong for this tragedy to occur?You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 390 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. How are you? I'm doing good. How about you? I'm doing very well. Well, that's good. Yeah, it always is. My new puppy Ivy's doing great.

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Yeah. We have a ton out right now. Gibbs on Saturday night, we dropped a new Patreon episode. And it's about this judge and his wife who were murdered in Palm Beach County, West Palm Beach back in the 50s. And it turned out, it took the police a while to figure it out, but it turned out that a fellow judge who was on the tape. Yeah. Had a role in their murders. But it has some interesting characters in it. It does. Absolutely. And the way they figured. figured it out and all that. And then we also have a brand new episode out on true crime all the time unsolved where we're headed to Columbia, South Carolina, where in 2001, 25-year-old Shelton Sanders disappeared. He was out with a friend. And that friend years later was charged with his murder, but was acquitted. So there's a lot to unpack, a lot to get into. Make sure you check it out. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode?

of true crime all the time. I am ready. This is a case that I've been wanting to cover for a very long time. We're talking about the murder of Phil Hartman. On May 29th, 1998, successful actor and comedian Phil Hartman was killed by his wife, Brent, in a tragic murder suicide. They appeared to be a happy couple to outsiders, but those in their inner circle knew that they fought often and had tension in their marriage. And for me, you know, going back to those days

where Phil Hartman was on S&L, those were some of the glory days. Well, sure was. I mean, you think about the people who were on there with him and really him in particular, I just felt like he was so gifted. He could play, you know, so many different roles. Yeah. And they were all played perfectly. He was very funny. And just extremely talented. Philip Edward Hartman was born on September 24th, 1948 in Brantford,

Ontario. I also think there's a lot of funny individuals who have come from Canada. Especially with Saturday Live. Yeah. Mike Myers. But then, you know,

you even get into like the old SCTV days with John Candy. And, Gene Levy from Schitts Creek. Yeah. Stuff like that. It's just a lot of funny Canadians. It's so cold up there that maybe that's all you can do is just be funny. Does that keep you warm?

Yeah. Being funny helps keep you warm. Phil was the fourth of eight children. His dad was a building material salesman and his mother was a homemaker. In a 1993 interview with people, Phil said that he didn't make any ways as a child and had a passive people pleasing middle child mentality. Okay. I can relate.

Because you're the middle child? Yeah. Okay. Well, you are somewhat passive, somewhat of a people pleaser. I am not. You definitely are not. And maybe that's because I'm an only child. Yeah.

But I can see, you know, as a middle child, maybe you got to play peacemaker between some of the older kids, some of the younger kids, you know, you're trying to fit in, you're trying to find your own way. I could see the challenges. Trying to keep everybody happy. Sure. Yeah.

Trying to make sure you get enough at the dinner table. It can be a challenge sometimes with those big families like that. Phil's family moved to Southern California. In 1960, he became a U.S. citizen 30 years later in 1990. Took a while. Yeah, did take a while. He was interested in theater from a young age. And in junior high, he performed with Linneux.

Fromm, who was sentenced to life in prison for the attempted assassination of former president Gerald Ford. Squeaky. Squeaky Fron. Skeaky Frum. Did you say skeekee? No, squeaky. I think if people play it back, they're going to hear skeaky.

But it is interesting, right? When you talk about people who do really bad things. Right. Well, obviously, there are a lot of different people who went to school with them. Sure. Some of them might later go on to become famous themselves, not infamous, actually famous. In this case, somebody went to school with both of those, right? Somebody went to school with her, and they also went to school with Phil.

So they say, well, I went to school with the famous and the infamous? Yes. Yeah. After graduation, Phil attended Santa Monica College and then California State University Northridge, where he majored in graphic design. Phil worked several jobs before he became a famous comedian. According to ABC, he was a roadie for a band called Rockin'Fu. Okay.

It's not one that I'm familiar with. If it was like the early years before the foo fighters came around. Well, I am sure it was well before the foo fighters came around. Before they were born. I'm not sure what your point is. Mike Thomas, author of You Might Remember Me. A biography on Phil Hartman said that Phil lived a bohemian existence around this time. And I know at certain points in your life, you have been known to lead a bohemian existence.

Nothing wrong with that. There are even claims online that bohemian rhapsody in some small part was crafted based on you. I'm going to have to say I can either deny or confirm. Well, what would an episode be without you saying that? Thomas said in an interview with Salon Magazine, I also thought it was really cool to read about the real Phil, who was more of a hippie than anything else. He loved to serve.

He loved to hang out on the beach of Catalina, Smoke Pot. He was not the characters he played. A lot of whom tended to be more straight-laced, stick in the mud boss-like figures. And I wonder how much of that is true for a lot of actors. They're playing a character. Sure. I'm assuming a lot of times much different than what they are like in real life.

You know, sometimes you've got to do what you got to to move your career up. You know, sometimes you're going to play a role that is really not who you are. Well, if you're a good actor, though, you can pull those. off. Sure. I mean, I play a cowboy every weekend. And you are not a cowboy. I am not. But I do think it's true. You know, if you look back or think back on the characters he played on Saturday Night Live, they weren't the, you know, over the top in your face. Characters like maybe Dana Carvey played or Adam Sandler. He did play more of the straight guy, right? Not to laugh. out loud, but he was super funny in the way that he did it. In 1970, Phil married his first wife, Gretchen Lewis. The marriage didn't last long. And they were divorced by September

1972. Pretty quick. Yeah. I mean, to me, that sounds like one of those relationships where it seems great until you're spending every day, every day together. And you soon realize that you're not meant to be. Phil's friend and attorney Steve Small told 2020, Phil fell in love easily, but wasn't very skilled at continuing a relationship. That's a tough skill to have. Making a relationship work. Yeah. Well, it's easy to fall in love, I think, for a lot of people. I kind of look at that as the easy part. The hard part is continually working on a relationship, you know, even a marriage, because it does take work. It takes sacrifice. It takes compromise. It takes all those things. Yeah. And I think there are some people who just, you know, are not willing to do that. They want things a certain way, but they want it the way

they want. In the mid-70s, Phil worked for his brother's talent management agency. And he designed album covers for rock bands. Kind of cool. No, it is kind of cool. It's also cool to see how people all ultimately got to where they did, right? The route that they took, you know, how many people just out of high school burst onto the set of S&L or are headlining big stadiums as a comedian? It takes work. You got to put in your dues. Yeah.

But it was said that Phil wanted to get away from his self-described introverted lifestyle. So in 1975, Phil joined the groundlings. an improv group in Los Angeles, he attended one of their shows and volunteered to participate. The groundlings were so impressed by his performance that they invited him to join their group and take classes with them.

Oh, that's kind of impressive. It's really cool. I also think, you know, the groundlings is a huge thing. A lot of S&L characters came from there. It's, you know, I think something akin to Second City in Chicago. a lot of SNL cast members came from there as well. But I think there's been a lot of famous people who have gone through kind of both of those

organizations. Comedian Tracy Newman, a founder of the Groundlings told ABC, I never saw an audience member come up with that kind of excitement and energy. It was like a hurricane hit that stage. And I mean in a good way. Phil married his second wife, real estate agent Lisa Jarvis in 1982. Lisa said she realized their relationship was over after a year of marriage.

That's pretty rough. It is. But I'm also kind of getting the feeling here that, you know, much like what the one guy said about Phil, he fell in love easily. But he had a hard time making relationships work. I don't know that he was the one doing the leaving. It sounds like it was his partners who were leaving him. Lisa told 2020, my sense of Phil was that he was really two people. He was the guy who wanted to draw and write and think and create and come up with ideas.

He was the actor and entertainer. And then he was the recluse. Okay. Can't say I know anybody like that. Nobody? Well, I'm not an actor or entertainer. But, and I wouldn't call myself a recluse, but I do enjoy my time. You know, I love spending time with my wife and the family.

But once they go to bed, then it becomes kind of my time for a very long time. And I do kind of tend to stay up late. Yes. She said in a 1998 interview with people, he would disappear emotionally. Phil's body would be there, but he'd be in his own world. That passivity made you crazy. And when I'd protest, he'd say, you're getting in the way of my career. And this is who I am and what it's going to.

to be like. Focused on his career. Yeah. And I do think a lot of people who become very successful do kind of have that one track mind. You know, whether it's real estate or business or acting or singing, they pour everything into this one thing in order to become successful. Sports, right? Basketball, baseball, football, it takes up all of their, you know, time and energy, which can be very hard if you're trying to have a relationship with this person because you're not number one. No. They may love you, but you're not number one. But there's a lot of successful people that got that way because they put themselves first.

Or whatever their goal was. Yes. First. Yes. And by extension themselves. So I get what you're saying. But there's a price to pay for that, right? Of course, yeah.

And I think in many cases, it's the prices, relationships, things like that. Lisa and Phil got divorced in 1985. Phil spent 11 years performing with the Groundlings, but he did have other acting gigs in the late 70s. Phil helped Paul Rubens, a fellow Groundlings performer, create the character Pee Wee Herman. I did not know that. No. Before we started researching this episode.

He even co-wrote the movie Pee Wee's Big Adventure and played Captain Carl on the Pewy Herman show. So, you know, dating myself here, but that is a show that I did watch back in the day before I knew what Paul Rubens was going to get into. But it was such a strange show for the time. Like, just had never seen anything like it. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I know you love that voice.

Yeah. But think about that, right? 11 years performing with the ground. And I'm sure he was not making a boatload of money. No, but man, talking about some amazing connections. And experience and all that. But it goes back to the, you know,

you have to pay your dues. Phil's big break came in the fall of 1986 when he joined Saturday Night Live as a writer and performer. And he is arguably best know. For his Asinel sketches, some of his most memorable sketches were based on his impressions of Bill Clinton and Frank Sinatra. And he did do a great Clinton. And you kind of always remember the person who does the sitting president during that time span. Yeah.

Like you remember Will Ferrell doing George W. Yes. And you remember Dana Carvey doing George 8. It's just, it's just how it goes. I even remember, um, John Lovitz doing Dukakis, for some reason. Yeah.

The, the political people, they were so good at it doing them. You can, you can remember them. There was one that I remember where, you know, Hartman's playing Clinton and they're,

Clinton's out running. He's getting some exercise. And he's got all the secret service with him and stuff. And he stops at like a McDonald's. or a fast food restaurant to kind of talk to people. Yeah. And he says, are you going to eat those fries? And he starts taking food off everybody's plates.

And then he's eating as he like runs by the restaurant. Phil set a record by participating in 153 episodes. Other cast members called him the glue because he held the show together. Now, my thought is that that record has probably been broken because that keynote. because that Keenan Thompson has been on there for, I swear, like 20 years. It seems like. I think he left for a little while and then maybe came back, but he's been on a lot. He has been on the show for a long time.

Soon after joining S&L, Phil went on a blind date and met his future wife, Bryn Amdahl. Bryn's birth name was Vicki Joe Omdahl. She grew up in Thief River Falls, Minnesota, and had what was described by her brother Greg as an idealic childhood. Would you say you had an idealic childhood? Yeah. Mine was pretty good. Yeah, I can't complain.

I don't know if it was idealic, but it was really good. I mean, it was good. According to people, Bryn dropped out of high school and got married to Doug Torfin, a phone operator. She did some modeling in Minneapolis before she decided to move to California for better opportunities. A lot of people do that, right? they moved to California.

If you were stuck in the Midwest somewhere and you wanted to be a model or an actor or an actress, where were you going to go? Either California or New York. Yeah. It's really your only options. Most likely. Especially back then. Bryn's dream was to be a model and actress. And it seemed like she was off to a good start.

In the mid-80s, she signed with a modeling agency and worked as a swimsuit model for Catalina Swimwear. In her spare time, she went to auditions. Then you do some modeling back in your high school days. For Catalina swimwear, which is quite a coincidence. It's very, yeah, I mean, you know, that's what you're into. Those little, uh, banamic hammock. Did you just say banamic hammock? I said banana.

Oh, we all know what you meant to say. I'm just saying, do you know what you really said? Banamic hammock. So, you know, she's, you know, she was figuring out her identity, as a lot of people do when they're young. Sure. And she eventually decided to change her name, which is how she went from Vicky to Brent. Brin's brother Greg told ABC that she developed a cocaine problem when she first moved to L.A.

He convinced her to go to rehab and she was mostly sober for years. Well, if you're talking about California or L.A. is specifically in the 1980s and you're running around, in some circles with actors or models, you're probably going to be introduced to cocaine. Yeah, I'm sure it was easily available. Yeah, it seemed to be everywhere. Phil and Bryn had a strong connection from the beginning. An unnamed friend told people he had never had a quote unquote babe before.

And she was it for him. He married his dream girl. And Bryn was a very beautiful. woman. However, people reported that Brennan Phil were emotional opposite. Biographer Mike Thomas told Salon Magazine, his relationships would always start out very intensely, intense emotionality, sexuality, and then they would eventually peter out. I mean, with Phil, he was always on the hunt for the new, the fresh, and he had an artist's eye for beauty. So it sounds like he kind of got bored with the current relationship and was basically didn't have anything else.

And basically and basically didn't have anything else to talk about and just wanted something new. Well, you know, let's face it. There are some guys who are all about the hunt. And then once they are able to be with this person who they've been trying to court or whatever you want to call it, then that kind of is it for them. They go on to look for somebody else. It's almost as if it's the pursuit that drives them and not so much the actual relationship. And I have to say that seems like it would be a very sad and lonely existence.

It really seems like to me. No, I agree with you. Yeah. Yeah, for sure it would be. Not to mention the fact that you're probably hurt. hurting a lot of people along the way. Yeah. In a different interview, Thomas said about Phil's relationships.

But as the months go on, the cracks begin to show. And Phil does what he did with his last two relationships. He begins to withdraw emotionally. They begin this pattern of fighting and making up and fighting and making up. And that would really mark their relationship from there on out. And I wonder how much of that, and I don't know about Phil specifically, but I do think there are some people who they get scared. Yeah.

That the relationship is going to end. So it's almost like they preemptively start to withdraw, which almost inevitably is going to cause the relationship to fail. Because they're trying to keep themselves from being hurt. Yes. So, you know, they take the first step. But maybe it would never happen if they wouldn't. But in their mind, they think it will happen.

And then I also think there are. couples or, you know, people in relationships that, you know, they, they have this fight, makeup, fight, makeup kind of dynamic. Yeah, that's just not good. Well, it's not, but some people can get addicted to it. Sure they can. They like the drama. Yeah, you like the drama. You also, the makeup part is great. But to me, that sounds exhausting. I would just think you're always going to be on eggshells waiting for the next fight to come around. Or you're going to be the one trying to figure out when to start the next five. That's true too, yeah.

Phil and Bryn got married in 1987. Their son, Sean, was born a year later. After Phil's son was born, he called his ex-wife Lisa Jarvis to tell her he was a father. As reported by ABC, Lisa wrote a card that said something to the effect of, dear Phil and Brent, much love from Aunt Lisa. If you ever need a babysitter, I'm so thrilled for you. Now, I did find that a little strange. You know, some people have really, really good relationships with their exes.

So maybe it's not that strange, but, you know, you're going to call your ex and say, hey, guess what? Not only am I remarried, but I'm a daddy. Yep, I'm a dad. And she's probably like, okay, great. But it sounds like she was very gracious. Yeah. You know, she sent a nice letter.

But according to Lisa, she got back a letter that was hair curling, Fury. rage and a death threat from Brent. The gist of it was, don't ever fucking get near me or my family or I will hurt you. I never want to hear from you, never ever, ever come near us or you will really be sorry. That's brutal. That is brutal.

But she's probably trying to protect her interest in her man and obviously her child. Yeah, maybe in her mind she is, but it seems way over the top. Because that letter I read, it was very, very nice. And, you know, here's a person who left Phil. Yeah. It's been some time ago.

What's the danger that, you know, they're going to reignite? But it just sounds to me like maybe she was a little bit jealous. A little bit? And, uh, wanted to make it definitive that she was not going to put up with anyone coming between her and and Phil. Well, she did a good job letting that be known. Yeah, she didn't couch her words at all. I mean, she let it fly.

Lisa called Phil and asked him, do you have any idea who you are married to? Phil simply responded, you should have seen the letter she wanted to send. Okay. What was in that? I'm assuming maybe it was much, much more threatening. Yeah.

And could have. potentially landed her in jail and Phil had to talk her out of it. Just trying to figure out how those conversations went as that was being developed, you know? Well, he obviously had knowledge of both the original version and the one that was ultimately sent. After Phil joined S&L, he and Bren moved to Manhattan, Bryn took acting classes and raised the children.

She was unhappy in New York, though. She felt secluded and cut off, according to a friend and was frustrated that her own career wasn't doing as well as she'd hoped. And this is something I've always wondered about when it came to couples where one or more of the individuals was kind of a major star. You know, I do think it's possibly why you see so many stars marry someone who's not in the business at all. Because I imagine there could be a lot of jealousy. Well, and I think that's why so many of the relationships don't work. Like when two stars are together.

Yeah. Not to mention the fact that oftentimes they're both off in different parts of the world on different sets or whatever it is. Any good quality time together. Yeah. But you could see how that could be frustrating for her, right? She wants to be a model. She wants to be an actress. It's not working out.

but you know here's Phil who's on S&L you know every Saturday night he's becoming this big star everyone loves him yeah well why why am I not making right why can't I do brin's friend susan stadner recalled that brin got plastic surgery due to low self-esteem a plastic surgeon who operated on her told people that brin wanted to be the perfect wife of a Hollywood actor the Hartman's former nanny in New York reported that some of the surgery was Phil's idea. He thought Bryn's face was too round and wanted her chin to be more square. Okay. Not sure what the real truth is, and maybe both of them are true.

Yeah. I can't imagine going to my wife and saying, you know what, honey, I've been thinking about it. Your face is just too round. And I need for your chin to be more square. Can we square that off a little bit? You know how that conversation would go. Not good for you. No.

There would be a number of expletives, and I'd be told where I could stick that idea. And I don't know how this helps somebody with self-esteem issues. I don't think it does at all. Yeah. Because you're basically telling them that they're not good enough. Right. In your eyes. If this is how it really went down, as relayed by this former nanny,

it's definitely not you loving your partner for the person they are. Unconditionally? Yeah. You're basically saying you would be better if you would do this, this and this. Phil's career grew in the late 80s and early 90s. In 1989, Phil won an Emmy for outstanding writing in a variety or music program for his work on S&L.

In 1991, Phil started working on The Simpsons. He was the voice of recurring character. Troy McClure and Lionel Hutz. How much money have some of these people made off the Simpsons? I think a lot. This is a show that's been on for what, 30 plus years. Yeah. Some of these voice actors have been made multi-millionaires.

Oh, yeah, big time. I can't imagine how wealthy Nancy Cartwright has become. Wasn't that Danny Elfman who does the music? Yeah. He does a lot of different things. Al Jean, the executive producer, said, Phil made the material funnier than we originally imagined. And I couldn't imagine anybody else doing it.

And, you know, no matter what we say about Phil in this episode or what anybody else says about him, there's one thing you can't take away from the guy and that, and that's that he was amazing on that show. He was. He made that show for many, many years. Just so witty. Now, there might have been other characters who were more memorable, but I felt like, you know, his kind of dry humor was my kind of humor.

And so I think I was really drawn to the characters that he played. Phil and Bryn's daughter Bergen was born in 1992. Phil and Bryn loved being parents. And Bryn was described as a doting mother. The family moved back. to California around 1992. They purchased a $1.4 million home in Encinem. Bryn purchased a gun because she felt unsafe in the home. Phil was away from home often because of work, leaving her alone with the children. And again, it wasn't just him on SNL, right? He was

doing some movies and other things. Pretty busy. I think by this point, he was a pretty wealthy guy. In addition to the house, he bought boats, cars, and even a small plane. He enjoyed spending time on Catalina Island and dreamed of retiring there. Catalina Island? I mean, the Catalina Mixer? Yeah, I swear, I watch that movie Stepbrothers every time it's on. And I know how dumb it is, and it's exactly what I love about it. Phil said in a 1998 interview, I think in my old age, I've come to realize just how precious

everything is. And I try to value the many blessings that have been bestowed upon me. But there's also this sense of vulnerability if fortune took a turn for the worst and that you live with the awareness that anything could happen in this world. And Gibbs, I'll be honest with you, I just think that comes with a little bit of age. Yeah. You know, when you're 22 years old and working like, let's say your first real job or even just like a retail type store job, everything is still in front of you. But as you start to get older and you grow in your career. Yeah.

At a certain point, it almost becomes like, I hope I don't lose this, right? You're vulnerable because if this gets taken away from me, well, where do I go? Yeah. Do I have to go all the way back down to the bottom and start and work my way up at age, what, 50. I think that happens for a lot of people. And then I think if you're a celebrity, it's, it's probably even worse because, you know, you get to that kind of top of the mountain. And it's like, how do I stay here? Yeah. How do I stay on top? When am I going to be knocked off? Because everybody gets knocked off at some point. Except for, you know, Tom Hanks. Nothing ever

happens to Tom Hanks. Now, sometimes some of them make a comeback, right? And their second, go around actually better than their previous go around. Sure. Maybe it's not movies. Maybe they switch to TV or whatever it is. Phil's work schedule increased in the 90s. He was still working on SNL and the Simpsons and was doing commercials for big brands like Cheetos and McDonald's. He was also a regular on late night talk shows. He wasn't home as often as Bren wanted him to be. And I think it's pretty hard to be home when you have that much stuff going on. I mean, Saturday Night Live is done in New York. Yeah. So if you're living in California, obviously you're going to be gone for a number of days, rehearsal, the taping, all of that. And if you're doing a movie,

if you're doing commercials, it's not a lot of time for home life. No, it's not. Biographer Mike Thomas explained that Phil might have liked the idea of fatherhood more. than the work of being a parent. And that's a very interesting statement. Being a father is great. It's one of the greatest joys of my entire life. I agree. But there's a boatload of work involved.

Yeah, not easy. Being a parent, it's not an easy thing. And I do think there are some people who, you know, have this notion of being a parent. But when it comes to doing everything involved, especially if you're a guy like that who has a very busy schedule when you get home from doing all of these things are then are you then changing all the poopie diapers right i don't know yeah i mean i think there's definitely a difference between being a father or a mother versus a parent i mean be a parent you're parenting and that's a lot of work oh you mean as opposed to just

biologically being this person's mom or dad yeah yeah i get it i give it true sign. Bren was resentful because Phil was always working. And again, she was jealous of his successful career. But at some point, you have to realize it is what it is. Right. Yeah, I think so. And, you know, that you're also benefiting from it as well. You know, you have the wealth that allows you to live in the big house and be financially secure. But it sounds to me like she kind of never let go of some of those dreams that she had of either being an actress or being a big model or whatever it was. Bren's brother Greg told ABC, she just wanted to be more part of the spotlight than she was, you know? And again, I do think that would be hard for some people.

You're married to someone who's on magazine covers, who's on the television all the time. And you're not getting that same type of spot by nowhere near it. Phil and Bryn argued often. She was described as volatile and insecure about her husband's fame by People Magazine. Phil was outwardly genial, but sullen and withdrawn in private. Phil once told his friend, I go into my cave and she throws grenades to get me out. Phil's friend Steve Small later told the LA Times she had trouble controlling her anger. She got a tension by losing her temper. Phil said he had to restrain her at time. Okay, this sounds like a really rocky marriage to me. It really does. I think you're also seeing the difference of on camera or in public Phil versus at home fill. And I think for a lot of people, those are two different people,

right? This is the face I have to put on because I'm a celebrity. And then here's what I'm really like at home. I mean, it's just like you. You and I can't go to dinner without you being mobbed by throngs of fans and you have to put on that gibby. Thongs? Thongs. Throngs. But in real life, you're actually more like Buffalo Bill from Sons of the Lange. Oh, man. Phil's makeup artist Norman Brent once overheard the couple fighting behind. the closed door of an S&L dressing room, Phil was white as a sheet when he walked out. When Norman asked him what was wrong, Phil said, looks like the wife's going to divorce me this time. After eight seasons, Phil left Saturday Night Live in 1994. He worked on developing a variety show called the Phil show, but it wasn't picked up by any network.

I feel that, you know, because I did the, uh, the Gibby show. And it was never picked up. Well, it was picked up, but it was at Russian network. And I was like, who's going to watch? I don't speak Russian. You still get those two, three cent checks, though, from the commissions? Oh, man. Yeah, it's a pain, too, signing them all over. In 1995, Phil signed on to an NBC sitcom called News Radio.

He was paid around $50,000 per episode. Kind of remember that show. I really like that show. You know, you're talking about Joe Rogan was in that one. It was a funny, funny show. How many episodes is there in a year's worth of sitcoms? Like 20 some? I think so.

26. 24, 26. So, you know, what's he making? Over a million dollars. Doing okay. Doing okay. In 1996, Phil played lead roles in the comedy, Sergeant Bilko in jingle all the way, starring Arnold Schwarzenegger.

And actually, for me, Sergeant Bilko is an underrated movie. I don't know if you've seen it. He's really good in it. I haven't seen it. If I did it, I don't remember it. It's based off, I think, in either an old TV show or an old movie, but he plays this sergeant in the army who's basically running like an underground scam type thing. But he's really funny.

But I did sing Jingle all the way. Yeah, with Arnold. Yeah, that was awesome. Bryn was still working on establishing her acting career. She played a minor role. in the 1994 film North and appeared in an episode of Third Rock from the Sun. And that's a show I used to watch a lot as well. After nearly a decade of sobriety,

Bryn began drinking and using drugs in late 1997. Phil's co-star, Andy Dick, gave cocaine to Bren at a Christmas party. And, you know, back in the day, Andy Dick was pretty funny. I know he's gotten into quite a bit of trouble. Controversy. In recent years, Dick spoke to 2020 years later and said she was already in relapse mode, which I didn't even know she had a problem with it all in the first place.

Grin was taking Zola, an antidepressant at the time of her death. According to the Mayo Clinic, an aggressive reaction is a less common side effect of Zolong. She turned 40 the month before she died. And she struggled to accept the fact that she was aging. As do we all. Yeah. Coming from a guy who at the time this episode airs will just have had another birthday. In another year older.

Yeah. And they seem to be coming faster and faster. Oh, happy birthday. Appreciate that. In the months leading up to the murder, she was in and out of rehab. She also checked into a clinic in Arizona. but only stayed four or five days before she left. Bryn was drinking and using cocaine again, days before her death,

which can cause negative side effects when mixed with antidepressants. Not a good combination. No, and a lot of people take antidepressants, probably more now so than ever before. Sure. There are quite a few things that you're not supposed to take with them. I think I know more people that take them than don't. take them. I'm right with you. According to a TV producer who knew the family,

Bryn's erratic behavior caused their housekeeper to quit 10 days before the murder suicide. According to Greg Amdahl, Brennan Phil were fighting more than usual. By the spring of 1998, they saw a counselor, which they said held. They wanted to improve for each other. And I think that's a good step. Yeah, I think if you're having problems or sometimes, even if you're not, having problems, but it's just getting kind of stale. Or you think things could be better. Yeah. But the wanting to improve, the relationship, and then, you know, each other on their own,

that's a, that's a big step. You got to have the want to. Sure. Yeah. It's not going to do any good if you're dragging your feet going into the therapy. However, back in 1998, Bryn's childhood friend, Jeannie Peterson told people that Bren wanted out of her marriage. Peterson said she had been trying to get a divorce for two years, but Phil wouldn't agree to it.

Others say it was Phil who was ready to end the marriage. So there is a little bit of a debate, I guess. Yeah. Depending on who you talk to about who really wanted to end the marriage and who didn't. No doubt. There's a lot of people that are in a marriage right now that don't want to be in it. But they're not going to do anything about it because of many reasons. Yeah. I'm sure there's people listening right now. who are saying, yes, yes, Gibby. Yes.

I am one of those people. I would like to get out. But I can't. On May 28th, 1998, Bryn fatally shot Phil inside their Encino home and then shot herself in the head hours later. On the evening of May 27th, family babysitter Lorraine Moss was waiting for Phil to get home because it was almost time for her to go. Bren had already left and said she wasn't coming back until late that.

evening. Brin went out to a restaurant with her friend Christine Zander. Zander told people she was in a good frame of mind. She seemed content. Brin drank two cosmos over two hours. According to Zander, she didn't talk about any problems in her life and they'd made plans to see each other the next weekend. The bartender at the restaurant said that nothing seemed off about Brent. She and her friend were smiling and laughing during dinner. When Bryn left, she told him, I'll be back real soon and I'll be sure to bring Phil next time. And it's kind of an interesting encounter. You know, two Cosmos over a couple of hours.

Okay. It's nothing crazy. It's not like she drank five pictures of margaritas in an hour. Yeah. Seems pretty standard for a night out. Yeah. And then you have all of these interactions making it seem as though. she wasn't a person on the brink of, you know, committing some horrendous act.

Yeah. At 10.15 p.m., Bryn drove to her friend and former lover Ron Douglas's home. Douglas said that Bryn drank a few beers and complained about Phil. She left his house at 1245 a. And drove herself home. That's a little strange, you know, if you're married, what are you doing at your ex-lover's house? Well, and is it also the difference in how you're going to act when you're out in public versus behind closed door? Absolutely.

But for someone to be so jealous just about a letter that Phil's ex-wife said, now she's over at her ex-lover's house. Well, does that mean that she knew that she was going to do something? Yeah, maybe. authorities believed that Brennan Phil got into an intense argument that ended with her shooting him in his sleep. Stephen Small, a friend of Phil, said he made it very clear that if she started using drugs again, that would end the relationship. Small described the typical pattern of the couple's arguments. She had to get amped up to get his attention.

And when she got amped up, he would simply go to sleep. He would withdraw. And in the morning, he'd wake up and everything would be fine. And I do think there are some people like this. You know, they need the attention. And so they create drama or, you know, some type of scene because they're trying to draw some type of emotion out of their partner. Right.

Yeah. And it sounds like maybe that's what she was trying to do. It also sounds like he wasn't having any of it. He sounded like he didn't care. You go ahead and yell at me. You can say the nastiest things about me. I'm just going to go ahead and close my eyes and go to sleep. And tomorrow morning, it's going to be back to normal.

It was almost as if she couldn't get the rise out of him that she was trying to get. The couple's son, Sean, later told the police that he heard the slamming of a door around the time of the shooting. Both children were in their bedrooms when the shooting occurred. At 3.45 a.m. Ron Douglas was woken up by someone pounding on his front door. He saw that Brin was outside. Per ABC, Bryn told him, I killed Phil. I don't know why. Douglas didn't believe her. Brin called another friend and confessed what she did. But Douglas was still doubtful. And again, this Douglas guy is her ex lover. Yeah. So it's kind of strange that she went back to him, but he didn't believe Bren until a gun fell out of her purse. He put it in the trunk of his car and they drove separately to Brin's home. Douglas saw Phil's body in bed. He went into the hallway to call 911 at 6.20 a.m.

Okay. So your ex-lover shows up at your house saying that she just shot and killed her husband. You're dubious until a gun falls out of her purse. And this guy. first thought is to pick the gun up and put it in his own trunk. Yeah. I thought that was very strange. Now, I get it. You probably don't want her to have it. Yeah.

So you're going to secure it in a place that you feel like you can do that. But I also feel like the true crime person in me is screaming. Don't touch it. Don't touch it. And especially don't put it in your own trunk. Yeah, because at that point, she could say he killed Phil because he was jealous. Yeah. You know, I had been with him the night before or whenever it was. So he sees Phil's body. He calls 911. Then he saw that Brent had locked herself inside the bedroom. The police arrived soon after and found nine-year-old Sean running out the front door. As officers were removing Bergen from the house, they heard a gunshot and found both Phil and Bren dead in the main bedroom. She was lying beside him on the bed. Phil was shot twice in the head.

And once in his right side with a 38 caliber handgun, it was one of several weapons. Phil kept in a safe in the house. Bren was killed by a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the mouth. So a pretty horrific scene. She kills him. Then she turns the gun on herself. They wind up lying in the same bed next to each other.

Almost as if she realized what, she had done. She was sorry about what she had done. And she knew she couldn't live with herself over what she had done. Now, she could have shot herself anywhere. Sure. Is it significant that she shot herself in the same bed where he was? And my thinking is there probably is some significance to it. Both children were distressed and confused in the aftermath of the murder, suicide, they were taken to a police station for question. Family friend Joel Diamond took the children from the police station to a park. Sean told him, my mom promised me.

She'd take me to a lot of fun places and now she'll never be able to. How sad. Yeah, I mean, those kind of statements made by young kids, it just break your heart. Bergen said, I know I'll never see my mommy and daddy again. again, Bergen's even younger. Yeah. It's just tough. You know, I mean, these kids at that time were so little and lose both your parents.

In the way that it happened. In the way that it happened. Because I always think about that. You know, if they were involved in a fatal car accident and they both died. Yeah. That would be one thing. It's still going to be horrible for you. Absolutely.

But to know that your mom shot your dad and then shot herself. that's a different level of processing. That's going to have to happen over the years. That's definitely some more intense therapy. Yeah. Bryn's toxicology report was released on June 8th, 1998. Her blood alcohol level was 0.12. She had cocaine and antidepressants in her system as well.

According to Phil's brother, John Hartman, the corner told him that Bryn had commons. combined Zoloft with alcohol and she did not know what she was doing or why she was doing it. He said, I took that as true. And I forgave her in that moment. Yeah, I think, you know, she kind of realized she did something wrong when she went over to her ex-lover's house and said, I killed Phil and I don't know why. Well, we talked about the mixing of drugs and alcohol before. I mean, some of this stuff just on its own can do some things to you. But when you start mixing a bunch of different things, antidepressants, cocaine, alcohol,

the side effects can be devastated. Phil's former co-star Andy Dick told 2020 that Phil's SNL co-star John Lovens blamed him for causing Bren to relapse and therefore causing the murder suicide. Dick told 2020, I didn't cause her to relapse. That's one of the misconceptions. That is not true. Not true. Like for real.

I didn't cause her to relapse. And I didn't give her cocaine. And then she ran off, got a gun and shot her husband and herself. No, that happened six months later. So obviously he was catching some heat. Sure he was. From different people. Now, did he cause her to relapse?

I don't know. Was she using cocaine before? he gave her some at the party that night, I don't know. No. There's also the issue of she could have said no. Of course. I'm sober. I don't want to take that.

But obviously, he didn't cause the murder suicide. I think that's pretty clear. You know, like he said, it's not like all of this happened at the same time. The murder suicide happened six months after this party. In 1999, Greg Amdahl filed a wrongful. death suit against Pfizer, which makes Zoloft, he alleged that the use of Zoloft caused Brin to not know what she was doing and shoot her husband. When she came out of it, she shot herself. Pfizer issued a statement to Salon Health that there's no scientific or medical evidence that Zoloft causes violent or suicidal

behavior. The suit was settled for $100,000 and there was no admission of any wrongdoing. And this is something that you and I have experienced. We've talked about it on a number of occasions when you are a big company. It is often in your best interest to settle some of these lawsuits. Especially some of these quickly. Well, and high profile. Yeah. You know for a fact that to fight it, they would have spent more than $100,000. Oh, yeah. And legal fees easily. And you don't want people jumping on to the lawsuit. Yes. So you want to go ahead and just settle it, get it done, brush it to the side and hope that it gets buried and move forward.

So as we wrap this one up, Gibbs, you know, I said it's one that I've been wanting to do it for a long time, mainly because I just really thought Phil Hartman was amazing as a comedic actor. And he's still remembered today as an extremely talented actor and comedian in 2007. Entertainment Weekly ranked Phil, 87th, on a list of 100 greatest television icons of all time. Pretty good. There have been a lot of people on television over the last, what, 60 plus years or however long television's been around. So to be included in the top 100, that is pretty amazing. In 2015, Rolling Stone named him one of the 10 greatest SNL performers. in the show's history.

That's also a really big achievement. If you look at the people who have come and gone through S&L since the 1970s, it's the who's who of comedic actors. It really is. So many great performers. Phil and Bryn's children were raised by Bryn's sister and her husband. The children grew up out of the spotlight and live private lives as adults. Sean is now in his 30s and has started a career as an artist and musician.

Bergen is married and started her own business. Bergen occasionally posts on social media in 2015. She attended the 40th anniversary special of SNL and spoke to the Hollywood reporter around the 25th anniversary of the Simpson. These kids got to be pretty tough to get through what they had to go through. and come out what appears to be pretty well adjusted. Yeah. And you mentioned therapy earlier.

I'm hoping there was probably some of that. Oh, I'm sure there was. Had to be. Yeah, yeah. But Phil Hartman was loved by his fellow actors and many fans. You know,

he likely would have gone on to star in many more TV shows and films before his retirement. He still considered a great comedian and an inspiration to many people in the, industry. And, you know, this is a different type of story. I think than a lot of the ones that we do, you know, she didn't kill him for greed. You know, it wasn't for insurance money or because she wanted to run off and be with somebody else and not lose the kids or any of those reasons that we see in a lot of the cases that we do. I do think there were a lot of factors. I do think there were a lot of factors that played into this murder suicide, their relationship seemed to be a little toxic, pretty volatile at times. It's hard to discount the drugs and the alcohol and, you know,

what role did that play? At the end of the day, it's just a sad outcome for everyone. Yeah. It's devastated their family. Yeah, absolutely. But that's it for our episode on the murder Bill Hartman. We've got some voicemails. Gibbs, you want to check those out? It's here. Hi, guys. My name's Alicia. I am a, I am a advocate, prison advocate, social justice organizer in California. I was just listening to the latest episode of Part 2 of Doody areas, and the question came up about restitution, and I thought I'd give you a call and give you a little bit of information on it. But it's a little bit different in Arizona. It isn't California, but not much here in California.

The people that who are incarcerated within CDCR and O restitution will have 60% of their pay taken immediately. So they're 8 cents an hour, 16 cents an hour, 32 cents an hour will be cut in half and immediately go to victim restitution. If there's money sent in, if you send money into your loved one, you go through one the websites to pay, your money is automatically taken as well. You spend $100, your loved one inside gets $50. As far as who get or who, how many victims get actually see the restitution,

it's less than 1% at least out here in California. Most victims don't even, are not even aware that there's a restitution pot sitting for them. So it just kind of goes untouched. It's hard for me because these, folks inside, regardless of crime, we're still human beings and still need to eat. And without money, without commissary, they're not fed enough. So this is something that we have pushed back on quite a bit. Yeah. And then I did look up Arizona and their rules are just a little

bit different. There's as low as 20% and up to 50% as automatically taken out. Hope this help. I love y'all show. Thank you so much. I am so addicted. I've listened to every single episode you guys are amazing. Thanks so much. Keep it up and keep your own time. Pick in the site. So we only had one voicemail because that one was a little longer, but I wanted to play it because I thought it was some really good information. It was. Now, again, if you're making

8 cents an hour or 16 cents an hour, okay, how long is it going to take to pay back $40, 60, $100,000? Yeah, you're never going to pay it back. No, but it does, according to her really kind of hurt the inmate. Yeah. Because that's just less that they're able to use for commissary.

And I thought the part about garnishing what is sent in by friends and family. That was pretty interesting. I wasn't aware of that. No, I wasn't either. So it does kind of, you know, really hurt them. Yeah. And now, depending on their crime, nobody's probably crying for, them. But it's just

it seems like almost like another form of punishment, I guess. But that's it, buddy. For another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.