True Crime All The Time - The Sunset Strip Killers

Episode Date: November 13, 2017

What happens when a man and woman meet that share the same perverted dark fantasies involving torture, necrophilia, and murder? When Douglas Clark met Carol Bundy a relationship began that would evolve into the duo becoming known as the Sunset Strip Killers.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the details of this sadistic duo and the crimes that they would commit. But when their world crumbles down around them both Doug and Carol would have very different versions of the events that transpired. Who was telling the truth and who was lying?You can support the show by going to patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for merchandise and contact information.Credits:Writing/Research - Maggie DobschuetzSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 53 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always. It's my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Ghibi, what's going on today, man? Hey, man. I'm a happy slappy. Slappy, happy. Happy. It's all good. It's all good. It's all good. I'm all good. I know it's been a rough week. It was a rough week. We don't always say that. But every now and then, we have a rough week at the same time. Some of us, sometimes I have a rough week, sometimes you do. Yeah, just a lot of work and activities outside of work. Just a lot of stuff going on.

But as always, we powered through. Yes, we did. Got a couple of good episodes coming up. True crime all the time. We're getting ready to talk to you about the sunset strip killers. Ooh. Fascinating. It is actually.

Actually, it really is fascinating. It really is. Big shout out to Maggie for, you know, her writing and research on this episode. Maggie May. And then on true crime all the time unsolved out right now at the same time, we're talking about the mysterious death of Ashley Fowles. It's a good one. It is a good one. It's the kind of unsolved that I like. This woman lost her life. That happened. We're telling the story of it after it happened. But there's a lot of details that go into this. And this is one that I think a lot of people as they listen, they'll start to formulate their opinion. Oh, absolutely. Some early on and some

will flip-flop. Well, and that's what I was going to say. And that opinion may change as the episode goes on, may not. Yeah, I think there'll be some flip-floppers. But by the end of it, I think you'll have an opinion of what you think really happened. And it's those kind that I really enjoy because I think they're very interesting. Yeah. All right, Gibbs, we have to do our Patreon shoutouts. We've got new Patreon supporters, Jeff, Jacqueline Gough, and that's LSU Tiger Jack. Yeah, she actually gave a voicemail. Was it last week? Last week or two weeks ago, we had her voicemail out there.

Yeah, we did. We did. Yeah. So then she became a Patreon supporter. She's been a huge supporter for a long time. Yeah, she's active on, and she's active on Facebook, but really active on Twitter. So sharing us and doing all that, and we love that. Yeah.

We have Jacqueline Waldorf, Gemma Hein. Jimma. And again, some of these names could go either way. So if I mispronounce it, I apologize in advance. Joe Hartwell, Stephanie Powers, Katie Morgan, Greg Saunders, Taylor Palachuk. Palach truck? Palachuk. Kind of like a pallet truck.

Oh, pallet truck. Yeah. I got you. Yeah. I don't know why you're always wanting to jack up people's names. Give them new names. I don't know. They already have a name.

They're like, why did we donate again? Just so he could butcher our names. I probably am butchering it the real name. Yeah. And then you're coming along and giving them a totally different name. We had Rachel Mores, Michelle Jolly. Happy, happy, happy. And Ashley Slokie.

Yeah. I wonder if she's Slovogian. Slagin. Did you say Slavogian? I did. I don't know where that came out of. Like from Slovakia? Slovakia.

Yeah. Slovogian. Well, you know, right on the border. Right next to Slovakia. is Slovogia. Yeah, it's a little time. I don't know where she's from, Gibbs. I don't know.

I don't know. But then on PayPal, we had a number of people donating on PayPal, and that's increasing over the weeks. That's cool, too. Yeah, we had Trisha LeBlanc, Kate McMahon, Michelle Herbert, who in a previous episode, announced she made the biggest donation that anybody's ever made. Right. She just came back and topped it.

What? Yeah. So Michelle Herbert is a huge fan. and every now and then on PayPal, she just says, here, boys, appreciate what you're doing. She's a baller. She is a baller. She is a baller. No doubt about it.

Drops that mic. Boom. Walks away. Yep. And then we had Caroline Matheson. And I got to talk about Samantha just for a minute. You know, Samantha on Patreon. Uh-oh.

She's a mic dropper. She is a mic dropper. And I think she started to hear of these people trying to outdo her. Yeah. And she went full-blown. mic drop helicopter escape and just blew it out of the water. And drop the power. And just said, I'm going over top of everybody.

Here's my donation. Dang. My monthly donation. I feel a little bit better when she busts my chops on social media. Yeah. You know, we have fun though. So she is definitely allowed to do that. And then going back into the vault on Patreon Gibbs,

this week we picked Caroline Rivera. And, you know, Caroline's been with us for a long time, big time supporter. I'm surprised you didn't sing sweet Caroline. Yeah, I thought about it. My voice is not at full throat this morning. Okay, we're leaving at that. Yeah. But Caroline's also big on social media and has been from the very beginning.

So can't say enough good things about her and what she does for the show. And we very much appreciate that. She was my first fan mail. So we appreciate all the new supporters, all the people that stick with us, PayPal, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, keep. Snapchat. Since I asked for retweets. There's been a ton of them.

So keep them going. Keep the retreats coming. The sharing on Facebook. All that is amazing. And just real quick, Gibby and I did an episode of Insight this past week that I think it's going to air coming up sometime in the next week or so. Yep.

So if you have not listened to Insight, you know, Ali, Charlie. We were on with Charlie because Ali was was out. But it was Charlie, Gibby and I. And we did a story. Yeah. Good case. Give it a listen. Yep.

And then don't forget, we got some new merchandise in with the new logo. You can find that through our website or through our Facebook page. All right, Gibbs, let's get into this episode of the Sunset Strip Killers. Now, we're going back a little ways. We're going back to the 80s. But we're also going back to what is kind of a rare thing. You know, man and a woman out committing murders kind of takes me back to our very first episode, which was Alton Coleman and Deborah Brown,

as it seems like a long time ago, 52 episodes ago. Been about a year. Yep. Almost, we're coming up on our year anniversary. So before we get started with the episode, I want to play a clip from Doug Clark, which I think will kind of help set us up,

Gibbs, for this whole thing. I'm Douglas Clark. I've been on death row for 13 years, been involved in this case since Carol Bundy accused me of her crimes, which were a copycat of this book. Since 1980, August 11th, I was 32 when I was arrested, a happy go lucky bachelor chasing skirts in L.A. having a good time. I shared a condominium with a homicidal butch lesbian. She's a sadistic lesbian serial killer. It's not a novelty. There have been somewhere around five lesbian serial killers in the United States in the last 15 years. She's just one of them.

All right. So that's kind of a primer to the story of the sunset strip killers, Douglas Clark and Carol Bundy. Obviously, he's talking about Carol Bundy in this clip. So in telling this case, we have to start with Douglas Daniel Clark. And he was born March 10th, 1948. He was the son of a naval intelligence officer named Franklin Clark. And the family traveled. They moved around a lot because of the line of work that his father was in. And Douglas Clark would later claim that he He had lived in about 37 different countries growing up. That is a ton. I never moved once.

And I felt that I was a good traveler, but 37. 37 countries. You see some stuff. You would. You would. You would. Now, when he was growing up in the third grade, he made a choice. And this is a third grader making the choice that he wanted to be called Doug instead of Daniel.

Because I guess up to this point, they'd been calling him by his middle name. but he said, nope, I want to go by Doug. In 1958, his dad left his position in the Naval Intelligence Unit and took up a job as an engineer with a transport company in Texas. So his father had left the military, took a civilian job, but the family kept moving around. And at one point, they were living in the Marshall Islands. And this is a set of islands located in the Pacific between Hawaii and the Philippines. little place. Have you been there? I have not been there. I'm shocked. One place you have not been. But I know

it's a nice little place. Yeah, then they were in San Francisco. They moved to India for a short period of time. I guess that's a big difference. It is. Yeah. Marshall Islands to San Francisco to India. Yeah, definitely some cultural shock can change. There's no doubt. But I guess what I'm trying to get across is just the level of movement and bouncing around. There's, there's really no stability in where, you know, this kid is living. Now, a lot of people had that in the military, right? They bounce around and not that much. Not, but that's a lot. And at one point, they're in Geneva and Clark is sent to a very elite school there. And this was a school for, you know, children of UN diplomats, international celebrities, European, Middle Eastern royalty. The cream of the crop. This is a fancy, fancy school.

Yeah. So Douglas Clark is a 10.com. but what would come out about him and his time in this school was, you know, he was seen as sullen, arrogant. He never had a lot of friends. He didn't care about schoolwork. That happens when you're sullen. And sullen. And that too. But the most important part about his time at this school, this elite school in Geneva, was that he would say later on, this is the time and this is the place and the set of circumstances that spurred his interest in kinky sex. Really? Yeah.

So, now, this kind of reminds me of that movie, and you're going to laugh at me because I can tell you right now I don't remember the name. So that means it's going to be a good one. No, well, it was a good. I mean, it had the, what's her name from, uh, you mean old what's her name? Yeah, forget it. No, it was actually good. It was a brother's sister.

They had a stepbrother. They had kind of a weird relationship. And Reese Witherspoon was in it. And she was the target for him. He wanted to try to seduce her. But it was all about this kinky sex stuff at this very elite private school. I know the movie. Because wasn't Ryan, Philippi in it?

And they ended up getting married. Yeah. Outside of the movie. Yeah. Yeah, outside of the movie. Yeah, that's it. You're on it. But we don't know what it's called.

Somebody's going to have to write in. People are like, why is he even bringing this? Either way, it's a great story. Gibbs. It really propels the podcast forward. So clearly even Hollywood saw that, you know, you have power, money, elite school, things happen. And then we're going to talk about it. Get into some kinky sex. So to that point, I do agree with you. Because Douglas Clark would go on later, he would brag about having sex with girls that lived in the town where the school was. He was getting in trouble a lot. He was drunk at school. He's drinking already. He wrote an

erotic letter to one of his teachers. He ended up getting expelled from this school and was sent to attend Culver Military Academy. So he stayed there while his father was traveling around the world. You know, I don't know if you experienced it, but I went to school with some, some friends that eventually they were shipped off to military school because they were having trouble. And they just got in more trouble when they got shipped off. You know, their parents were shipping them off. They're spending thousands and thousands of dollars, if not more, to try to get them, their behavior turned around. But all it did was propel them to do worse because they didn't have their parents around. The problem was that their parents weren't giving them any attention when they were.

To begin with. Yeah. And then they ship them off and what they think is going to happen. Right. So they thought military school was the answer. And really, the answer was better parenting probably. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, all you did was spend 50,000 a year to have a kid be worse than he was. Actually, I think that's the answer to a lot of problems. Better parenting. Better family unit, right? Trying to keep that intact. Now, it can't always be done. But where it can, I think it helps out a lot.

That's like one of those NBC ads, the more you know. A little five stars. Yeah. Rainbow thing. Rainbow. So in school, Douglas did the bare amount. He didn't care about school. Again, he didn't have a lot of friends, but he didn't seem to care about that.

What he was into was girls. And he would bring girls to his dorm room, have sex with them. but would also record it. Man, back then, that was a big recording device. Well, and it would have been expensive. Yeah. It's not like today where you can record basically anything you want, anytime you want.

Right. Back in those days, would have been expensive to buy a video camera. It's big, I mean, I know, like. Probably a lot harder to hide it too as well. Yeah, I mean, I know you got that little tripod over there by the chair you sit in all the time that you put your little camera on, but I don't, I can't imagine what it was like back then. Yeah.

lot harder today. Yeah. But not only would he record these sexual escapades, he would show them to his fellow classmates. Now, when he was 17 years old, he met what he called the love of his life. And this was a 14 year old girl named Bobby. They met at a dance. And but again, he, so he loved this girl, but he would take photos and videos of them having sex together and would pass them around the school. So this is somebody that you're saying is the love of your life, yet you're degrading her by showing all your friends this explicit material. Yeah, if she wasn't aware of it. If she was aware of it, I can't imagine that she was too pleased and would continue that. So Clark did graduate from high school in 67. He enlisted in the Air Force, was drafted to go to Vietnam. And initially,

he signed up to work in radio intelligence because he didn't want to have to go to the front lines and and really fight the war. Now, the Air Force should have had a positive impact on his life, but it didn't. His time in the service seemed to only bring the quality of his life down. He would be discharged from the Air Force and would start to wonder around kind of as a drifter. Finding work here and there where he could oftentimes is a mechanic. Now, when he's 24 years old, he married an woman named Beverly. This marriage didn't work out and you come to find out that Doug would visit a lot of bars during this marriage and that habit of going out and drinking, it would ramp up according to him as his wife gained more weight. So he was definitely somebody that had physical

attractions. It was noted though that Clark liked to wear Beverly's underwear. They started to participate in kind of a wife swapping type lifestyle. You have three sums. Wife's underwear, huh? I like to wear his wife's underwear. Okay. You ever do that? No, I have not. Probably be hard to do. Couldn't even if I wanted to. Yeah, it'd be difficult. Yeah. I might be able to get one one leg in there. Yeah, that could be hurtful. Not that I'm bashing it. I just I don't see the appeal, let's put it that way for me. Right. But to each his own. Yeah, I always say that. Now, Beverly convinced Doug that he should take a job as a steam plant operator. But again, he had a hard time keeping jobs. And he, you know, he moved. He was a job hopper. You know, for

whatever reason, either he didn't like it. He couldn't show up. They didn't want him. He couldn't keep a job. But it's the sexual aspect of Doug's life that really intrigues me, Gibbs. He would later say that he viewed himself as a quote sexual athlete. So like the Michael Jordan of sex. Yeah, like a Johnny Holmes. I was talking more about athletes, but if you want to go straight to porn stars, I, well, you're talking about sex. See where you can. Yeah. All right. We're leaving at that. Kind of intermingle him. Yeah. He also called himself the king of the one night stand. And again, these are these are names that he gave himself, right? These are not not names that other people gave him. So So just like most men, when it comes to the sexual appetite and performance, we always will give ourselves a much higher rating.

Not me, man. You start out low and stay. Yeah. I set the expectations low. Yeah. That way, what is it? What do they call it? Under promise and over deliver.

Is that what it is? That's my motto. Yeah. But now we have a glimpse into your life and the way that you go about things. Hey, no problem here, man. So he moves to Los Angeles. And this is important because this is where, you know, this story is going to take place out in California. He got a job as a steam plant operator at the L.A. Department of Water and Power.

Again, he doesn't keep this job. Moves right from that to a boiler operator at a Juergen soap factory. They fired him from this one. Again, because he didn't go to work. And he wouldn't even call him and tell him that he wasn't going to come into work. So you think it's because he's lazy or you think it's because he's so intelligent? The task at hand is so boring to him that it just doesn't... Like he thinks it's beneath him?

Exactly. Because it's the one thing we haven't talked about yet. I do believe that Douglas Clark was and is very intelligent. And we're going to play some clips from him. And I think you'll hear him as he talks that he had some smarts about him. This was not a dumb man. Right. He had, I don't know what his IQ was.

I assume it's still below yours. But he was an intelligent individual. So he gets fired from this Juergen soap factory job, but it was also said that one of the reasons was that he was making threats of violence against his coworkers. And he did also set his car on fire in 1980 outside of the plan. Of the Juergens factory? Yeah. That's like the little, is that the lotion too? Like by your chair over here?

It is the Juergens lotion. Stop talking about my chair, man. The lotion, the tripod. Okay, it's cool. But he was trying to claim the insurance money on this car. We talked about his proclosure. to hit the bars and it's at a bar that he's going to meet a woman named Carol Bundy. Carol was a registered nurse and it's in 1980 they meet and it's this meeting and in the bringing together of these two

individuals it's going to bring horror to the city of Los Angeles and a lot of unsuspecting women that these people are are going to come in contact with. I mean this is going to be the killer couple. Well, even her last name scares me. Well, and it's funny because that's going to come up. The connection between Carol Bundy, Ted Bundy, especially when we get into some of the interviews done by Douglas Clark. All right, Gibbs, we have to take a quick break to talk about something exciting. True Crime All the Time is brought to you by Rockstar Games and L.A. noir. The Dark Detective Crime Thriller set among the violence, glamour, and corruption of 1940s Los Angeles.

Coming to Nintendo Switch, Xbox 1, and PS4, L.A. Noir allows you to scourer crime scenes pick up and examine objects, interrogate witnesses, and determine who is telling the truth or lying to cover up a brutal murder. Solve crimes inspired by real cases from one of L.A.'s most violent decades. L.A. Noir from Rockstar Games coming November 14th, rated M for M. Rature. Order now at rockstargames.com slash L.A. noir. So now let's switch gears, talk about Carol just a little bit. She was born August 26, 1942 to Charles and Gladys Peters. So she was actually a little bit older than Douglas. She didn't have an idyllic childhood by any stretch. Her parents were horrible alcoholics who, you know, treated her very unkindly. She too had moved around a lot during childhood. And Carol would later say that as a child, her mother one day just decided that she didn't want anything to do with

Carol anymore. So Carol comes home, finds the doors to the house locked, and her mother just point blank told her to leave because, and she didn't want her around. Her father steps in, manages to convince the mom to let her stay. But from that point on, Carol would say that her mother acted like she didn't even exist. Wouldn't even acknowledge her in the house. That's rough, man. That's really rough, man. I mean, just because I know how this story ends, but I have to feel, you know, some sympathy for at this time. Well, I think you feel sympathy for these people as children. Yeah. And what they went through, especially, Carol, I think it's normal to feel sympathy for that. It's definitely the way you treat your kids today will have a major impact.

on who they are tomorrow. What sure as hell does in this one. Well, because. I believe that wholeheartedly. We're not going to feel sympathy for these two people in the end. But I think it's, I think it's natural to feel sympathy for them right now or for her right now. The mother would die when Carol was young. And it's at this point that she becomes a victim of sexual abuse at the hands of her father.

This is according to Carol. Yeah. So if it's true, what she's saying, I mean, how terrible this. So he helps her. stay with the mom that doesn't want her just so later he could sexually abuse her. That's a real winning family there. And we're talking 11 years old. Yeah. That's just sick, man. And so what Carol would say is that her father told both Carol and her sister that they had to stand in for for their mother who had just died. So they didn't get to have like the normal childhood.

Well, you say stand in. So I think some people were thinking they had to stand in and pick up the, what, Slack, what, the house chores and stuff like that? But I'm hearing that they had to stand in and take up the other role, too. I believe it was everything. Yeah, which is the disturbing part. Right. I believe, now in normal situation, or in a lot of situations, you know, a child would have to maybe step it up, you know, with the death of a parent, either doing more chores or, you know, learning to cook and clean more at an early age. I think that, is you could classify as somewhat normal. This other part, definitely not normal, definitely not right, where the sisters are taking

the place of the mother in a sexual way. And Carol would say that, you know, obviously they didn't want to do this. And so they would play a game and the winner, I should say the loser would have to spend time with their father. And I'm saying spend time as a euphemism. And I'm using air quote. Yeah, not the type of time you want to spend. No.

So how horrible is that two little girls, they know what's going to happen. They're playing a game, I don't know what kind of game, rock paper, scissors, whatever it is. And that's how they're determining who's going to have to do these horrible acts. But at some point, her father finds a new wife. Carol's forced to leave the house. And she bounces around from foster home to foster home. And then when she becomes 17 years old, she marries a man who was. was more than three times her age.

So that would put him like in his 50s, late 40s, early 50s, at least. So that would be 51. Did you do that math in your head? 17 times three. I did my conversion. I did my conversion. My fancy conversion. But this relationship wasn't going to last because the relationship was built around

the fact that this man wanted Carol to sell herself for sex and give him all the money. So pimping. So he wasn't a husband. He was a pimp. He was a pimp. She would marry again and this time be to a man named Richard Geis. And this guy was kind of interesting in the research Gibbs. He was a writer.

And he wrote science fiction, but he also wrote porn and maybe even science fiction porn. I don't know. So he's a writer for porn. You know, I haven't seen a lot of porn. You probably can answer this better than I. But I'm guessing that the dialogue and the plot is not real difficult to put together. I don't know. All you need is a pizza guy.

and somebody to answer the door, I think, right? That's it, huh? Special delivery. I don't know, man. I don't know how you sit down and go about writing a point. I don't really don't. I don't know. I know it starts out with boom-tick-a-bow-wow.

Yeah. And then from there, I mean, what do you need? Some type of delivery. Someone comes to the door with a towel that doesn't normally fit them correctly. And you acting like you don't, you don't know. That's probably the funniest thing. That was, you said that straight and people probably cracked up just from that. Hey, I was a UPS driver for a while.

I know you've seen your share of... There's a very... I can say there's a lot of interesting things that come to the front door. I don't doubt that one bit. Yeah, I've seen about everything you can imagine. But this man, Richard, he actually encouraged Carol to write

to the point where she had a short story published in a magazine. And she started to write a novel. So he was really encouraging of her. Now, she only made it through 12 pages, but she tried. She started to write a novel. she started a science fiction magazine gave up on that and it was also said that she was a very good artist so she

kind of threw her hat in or took her hand at trying to do cartoons but she gave up on that as well so what i'm getting gibbs is trying a lot of things not sticking with a lot of things not a finisher not a finisher she's a starter not a finisher but this second marriage for carol it's not going to work out either she cheats on on Richard but incredibly he still pays for her to attend nursing school where she would become class valedictorian so she's got a shitty upbringing everybody in her life treats her terrible finally she's got somebody that treats her good by all accounts by all accounts and drink and besides the fact that he writes porn but that's not a mess nothing hey you got to make your money however you make it whatever you do you do but he's not pimping her out and he's encouraging her and he's

encourage her. But then she has to go cheat on him. But yeah, he's still a stand-up guy and he says, you know what, I'm going to pay for your schooling because, because baby I love you. And we know she becomes a nurse because she is a nurse at the time where she meets Douglas Clark. Yeah. So it can be clearly she's smart. Smart enough to become classific valedictorian, sure. Yeah. I think both of them are somewhat intelligent, self-destructive, but. Were you a classific valetorian? I was not. Well, you're pretty smart guy. That's why I was just wondering. No, I got pretty much straight A's. I just wasn't.

You didn't get to wear the rope around your shoulder. It wasn't something that I was striving for. Yeah. I was too busy playing sports and other things. Other things. Yeah. Women. No.

I didn't say that. You're saying that. I'm no Doug Clark. I've seen your high school picture. But Carol Bundy would come out and talk about how promiscuous she was when she was younger. And she said she did this on purpose because she wanted attention from boys. Now how much of this Gibbs goes back to her childhood and what what she went through? She wasn't getting any attention.

The only attention that, to me, it sounds like she ever got was what you'd have to call unwanted attention from her father. Yeah, I just don't know how that plays. I can't imagine what you have to do inside your own head to get through that. And maybe that's what she had to do in her head, you know, to make it okay. You know, she's seeked interest outside of the house too to. make it better than what it was at home. I don't know. Well, it's got to mess up your psyche, no doubt about it. And I think she's pretty honest later on in life saying, you know, I was very promiscuous.

I wanted the attention from boys. And maybe that's just all she knew. She knew that that would bring that attention. Now, we talked about Bundy and Clark meeting. She was 37 years old when she met Clark. And at the time they met, she was already leaving her third marriage. And this third marriage, which we haven't talked about, but it was very abusive. The man was very abusive towards her, but she had two young sons with, with this man. And one thing we have to talk about is the fact that Carol Bundy jumped from relationship to relationship. We know that with men. But she also jumped from relationship to relationship between men and women. Because at different points in her life, she couldn't decide which gender she liked better.

But one thing kind of remained constant. She could not be faithful to any of her partners, man or woman. So that part kind of stayed the same regardless of whether during that period in her life, she was into men or she was into women. Now, prior to meeting Clark, Carol Bundy started up an affair with the manager of her apartment block. And this was a man named Jack Murray who thought him himself, as this kind of part-time country singer.

And Carol would say that she was obsessed with Jack to the point Gibbs where she tried to give Jack's wife money to leave him. I don't know where in the Sam Hell anyone thinks that that plan is going to work. Because again, how much money can Carol Bundy have at this point? No, I think someone offered my wife a good amount of change. Maybe, maybe. Oh, are we talking about your wife? What I was saying in general, you know?

I think $500. And a, that's all it would take. And a coupon to a fancy steak restaurant. And she's like, all right. Can you really get a? I'm on, I'm teetering on this thing anyway. I just trying to figure out what kind of fancy, fancy steakhouse would actually take a coupon or a gift card.

A gift card. A gift card. To a fancy steak restaurant. And she's like, she might want a little more 500 bucks. She was like, yeah, I was on the fence anyway. So this is just putting me over the edge. Absolutely. No, I'm just kidding.

Your wife wouldn't leave you for anything less than a thousand. Five figures at least. Oh, I would hope. It had to be at least 10. 10,000? 10,000. Yeah. But Jack's wife was so angry about this, right?

This didn't work that she ended up evicting Carol from the apartment. But Carol didn't take any of these hints. She's still obsessed with Jack. She's going to his shows, these bars where he was singing. And it's at one of these bars where she meets Douglas Clark. And it's not very long after the two meet that Bundy allows Clark to move in with her and her kids. And this is where she would find out that the two of them shared some of the same interests. And, you know, some of these interests Gibbs go into some what you'd have to call very dark sexual fantasies.

Now, I don't know how you find that out that quickly. Is it through a Q&A session where they playing Uno and it just came up during a game? a monopoly? I don't know. Just sitting around, drinking some ice tea on the patio. Are you into this? Yeah. Yep, me too. All right.

Have you ever wanted to go do this to somebody? Yeah. I'm always fascinated about, you know, how does the actual conversation go where you bring something up to see whether the other person is into it? You know, in a lot of relationships, that stuff stays below the surface. So the two become lovers, you know, and these are. accounts from, mostly from Carol, and we're going to hear a lot from Douglas, because Douglas has a lot to say, and he has been interviewed, and his interviews are out there. We're going to

play some of them. But apparently, Doug started out as what Carol termed a sweet, sensitive lover. Now, Carol's an average-looking woman, and I'm using the word average for a fact here. You know, she wore thick glasses. She struggled with her weight throughout her life. And I think she was a woman that fell in love very quickly. You know, because we've talked about these relationships that we've had. We've talked about her obsession with Jack. And it doesn't take very long where she has those same feelings towards Doug Clark.

You know, she becomes enamored with him. But this sweet side of Doug Clark, it doesn't last very long because they get into talking about fantasies that they both shared, but his in particular gives, I mean, we're talking about torture, holding women captive, necrophilia, and murder. Bad, bad, bad, bad and bad. Yeah, they're all bad. Yeah, nothing borderline. It's all bad. I mean, there are some healthy fantasies. Yeah, you can pretend capture. All right. I don't care what, how many times do I say, I don't care what you do in your personal life, you know, leave that stuff at home. Don't bring it onto the podcast. No, but, you know, in all seriousness, there are some healthy fantasies. Yeah. I mean,

even some people like not torture, but they like a little rough play, you know. Yeah, or play acting or whatever it is. This is, this is none of that. This is full-blown. We're going to hurt people. We're going to make people do things against their will. Yeah, you're a little safe word butterscotch. Butterscotch. It's not going to work in this case. And then you get into necrophilia and murder. it's going to get bad. And like we said, Bundy's, she becomes entranced with some of these ideas, some of these thoughts and fantasies.

She shared them. And Clark would tell Bundy that he believed that a woman who truly loved him would kill for him. And Carol would say that, you know, again, she bought into this as well. He even managed to convince her to buy two 25 caliber

semi-automatic pistols from a pawn shop and register them under her name. It's a little Jim Jones persuasion. Well, again, how much of it is Clark being very persuasive? How much of it is Carol Bundy wanting to play into her fantasies? Well, that, but wanting to be loved and going back to her childhood, trying to find a way for someone to love her and is she willing to do just about anything to keep that affection or to keep somebody in her life? I don't know. I don't know the answer. And again, a lot of this, I have to preface it Gibbs by saying a lot of this comes from Carol. Doug Clark is going to have a totally different account of what happens. But a lot of this story comes from what Carol would say after the fact.

And Carol would say that Clark wanted to spice up their sex life. And to do that, he wanted Carol to bring over women so that they could have threesomes. And at one point, he started watching an 11. year old girl in the neighborhood where they lived. He'd been watching her for some time and he wanted Carol to bring this girl into the home so that he could sexually abuse her. So at first, I was getting ready to say, how do you step up your sex life if you're into torture all the other sick stuff that gets him and her off? But okay, you took it to another level. Yeah, this is taking it to, you know, a bad level.

So an 11-year-old girl, she did convince her to come into the house one day. They took nude photographs of her and eventually got her to get into the shower with both of them, Clark and Bundy. And the one thing that would come out was Bundy didn't think that what she was doing was wrong. And she wouldn't think it because it's how she grew up. It was normal for her. You know, probably how she got her mindset to get around. it, you know, I mean, here she is doing all this stuff with her daddy.

I get that, but, you know, she talked about the fact that she didn't want to do that stuff. Yeah, but she's, her mind's not right, man. So. Because we know she's smart. That's what I'm saying. Did it just, all of that stuff, did it warp her so bad? Or did she really know what she was doing was wrong Gibbs because she'd gone through it? And she knew how horrible it was.

So I'm very conflicted by some of the things that, that, that, that, you know, that, she would say. Or she could have said, you know what, why said that little girl have a better life than I did when I was 11? There's a lot of things that could have been going through her head. But for her to say, I didn't feel like what we were doing was wrong. Again, it could be what you said, but I struggle with it because she went through the abuse. She had to have known how it made her feel. And you would think, especially somebody that had gone through that would say, you know, no way am I going to subject somebody else, some other little girl to the things that I went through. I don't know. I'm struggling. I'm struggling with this one. But this is like a lot of the stories that we do. The facts that come out,

you have to take everything with a grain of salt because they're coming from the people that perpetrated the crime. But the other thing she said is she did see this girl as, you know, competition. Going back to she didn't want to lose Clark, she didn't want to lose this relationship. So was it that she was willing to do whatever he wanted to keep him happy? Later on, she would even say she called this little girl a gift to Clark. I mean, we're getting into some demented sick shit. You know, they made a photo album of this girl, not only with, of her, but her with them. And Clark would become more and more controlling as the relationship went on saying that,

you know, Carol needed to do whatever he said, whatever he wanted, or he was going to leave. Now, is that the truth? Or is that her saying it after the fact to make it make the demented sick stuff she did sound like better, sound like she had to do it. She had no choice but to do it. Probably a little bit of both, maybe. It could have been. But clearly his appetite is growing.

It is. But also, she could have just left. So I get the fact of not wanting to lose a relationship. But to me, it's not a real good excuse because you could just say, hey, you know what, dude, this is way beyond anything that we should be doing. I'm out of here. Yeah. Well, there's definitely a psychological aspect probably to.

Yeah, I mean, the same reason why women and men stay with abusive spouses. Yeah. No. Again, we don't. know everything. We only know what Carol is saying. And that's why I keep saying, you know, take it with a grain of salt, but I think it's interesting to talk about all the different scenarios of what could and couldn't be. But you mentioned it Gibbs. His appetite is growing larger, growing stronger. And Carol is there to fulfill all of these sexual requests no matter what they are. And they're

going to get worse, right? We know that. But no matter what she did, it wasn't enough. Now, go back to the beginning. What did Clark call himself? He was a sexual athlete. He was. I mean, he had what I'm assuming was an insatiable sex drive, but it wasn't a normal sex drive, like normal people have. But then we get to April of 1980. And one night, Clark shows up covered in blood. There's blood all over his jean jacket. There was blood on his teeth and his hands. Do you say teeth? Teeth. Okay. Blood on his teeth, it said. So Carol rushes him into the bathroom. She's trying to trying to figure out what happened to him. And Doug tells Carol that he had been with a girl and her boyfriend had attacked him.

He said he used the knife he had on him to save his life. The problem that comes in with this story is it essentially happens again a week later. He comes home, similar situation. Now, don't forget, Carol Bundy has two kids, has two sons. And she had to tell them that Clark had to fight off a man that was trying to steal his car. But we're going to find out none of this is the case, right? These are all stories that the two of them are making up. Because around the same time, there's a sex worker that tells a story about narrowly escaping being

killed. She was standing in the parking lot of a grocery store. And this was on Sunset Boulevard. People are probably wondering, when are we going to get to the sunset? Sunset part. So we're on Sunset Boulevard. A man in a blue station wagon pulled up. She walked over to see if he wanted to have.

sex for money. But apparently the guy is sitting in the car playing with himself. He's batting for the Yankees. With his Jurgens. With his Jurgens. So she thought, okay, this guy's, you know, something's not right with him. She tried to get away. And he calls out to her, says that, you know, he does want to pay her for sex. He's going to give her $40 for a BJ. And most of the work was already started. So she gets in the car and they drive off. He wants to get into the back seat. She doesn't want to to do this. The man was upset by this. So she would describe the man as blonde, blue-eyed with a mustache, said his name was something like Ron. Sounds like Ron Burgundy. Ron Burgundy. Yeah, it does. Yeah, it does. When this woman went to perform the sexual act,

she noted that he had long, smooth hair on his hands. And she said that he had a very tiny, small penis. I don't know how to, you know, react to that, Gibbs, other than... Don't either, man. I mean, tell us what it's like. I know. What can you say? I'm sorry. I couldn't help myself. But the sexual act never actually took place because before it could happen, the man pulled a knife, put it to the back of her neck. She tried to escape, tried to get out of the car, and he just kept stabbing her over and over. And then he's trying to choke her throat. to stop her from breathing. She manages to push her feet as hard as she can against the door and she gets out of the car.

And she's just lying on the sidewalk. Blood is gushing because she's got some major wounds to the neck. And at this point, the man throws her things that were still in the car at her while she's lying on the sidewalk and drives away. Now, this woman survives and would later go on to say that it was Doug Clark who had attacked her. Well, glad you clear that up. Good thing. We know that she's still alive. since you already told us in the beginning that she narrowly escaped her life.

Well, I wanted to make sure that you knew. I just want to make sure. Because sometimes you nod off in the middle of my stories, and I wanted to make sure that you fully understood. That's because you have that voice. Like everybody says, they like to fall asleep to. I just happen to do it in the studio. Yeah, I like it when you bust my chops.

So now we have to talk about a couple of girls that were runaways. Cindy Chandler and Gina Narano. They had runaway from home. they had made their way to L.A. Now, these girls were 15 and 16 years old. And the girls were half sisters and apparently they weren't dealing well with the merging of the two families. They had been running away. I don't know if it was on a regular basis, Gibbs, but they had been doing it since the family had moved to a suburb outside of L.A. On this night, they ran away. Their parents were looking for them, but they had to give up because it got late. The girls had been running away and coming back so the

parents probably thought, okay, we'll find them the next day. They're going to come back. The night that they went missing, Carol Bundy comes home to find a note. And the note says that Clark wanted to talk to her later on. And Carol would go out shopping in Doug Clark's Buick. And inside the car, she found a bag full of bloodied clothing, a blanket, and some used napkins. Now, Carol said that she stopped at a laundromat to wash the clothes. There was a green tube top. And and a maroon striped dress. She threw the blanket and the napkins in the trash. So Gibbs, you find a bag of bloody clothes in the back of the car belonging to your significant

other. And your first thought is, man, you know what? I better stop at the laundromat and get these washed up. Yeah, that's normal. It's hard to imagine the thinking that's going on here. No logic behind that. When the pair finally do talk about what happened, it's a couple days later. Clark told Bundy that he had been driving down the Sunset Strip in his Buick.

This was on June 11th and he saw the two girls at a bus stop. He tried to get Cindy to get into the car with him, but she didn't want to go without Gina. So both girls got into the car. He said he would give him a ride. He made Cindy give him oral sex while he told Gina to look away. He eventually shot Gina with a gun that he had hidden between the seat and the door and he shot her behind the left. When Cindy sat up, he shot her in the head. But these initial shots didn't kill them because Clark realized, you know, both these girls are still alive. So he had to shoot them again. He threw the bodies on the floor of the car and he drove to a garage that he rented in Burbank, California. He covered the bodies with a blanket and he dragged them inside of this garage. Now, you have to imagine this scene. Right. There's blood everywhere. There's blood as he's dragging these bodies. There's. It's on the ground.

He tracked it into this garage. It's on his work boots. And at one point, inside the garage, Clark would say that Gina lifted her arm. He realized that she wasn't dead. And he was getting ready to shoot her again, but she did die before he had to shoot her again. And inside this garage, Clark had an old mattress. And he put the bodies on this mattress. And this is where he began to play with the dead bodies.

He took their faces and pushed them into each other's crotches. I mean, we're talking about some really sick shit here. There's no way around that. But again, this comes from Carol's story of what Doug Clark told her that he did. He said that he put his penis inside of Cindy's mouth. He sodomized Gina. And this obviously is where the necrophilia comes into play. It's pretty gross, man.

It really is. I mean, this guy is a bad, bad dude. And then he took his camera and he took pictures of the two girls. And then he wrapped their bodies in a blanket, put them into the back of his car. And he ended up dumping the bodies down the side of an embankment on forest lawn. It's on the ramp of the West Ventura freeway. It gives us near Disney, Disney Studios in California. Wow.

He just dumps these bodies like they're nothing. I mean, this is what type of guy this is. This is what he thinks about these girls. Not only is he victimized them, he's done heinous things to their bodies post-mortem, but then he's so callous that he just, you know, basically pushes them out of the car down them bank. On Saturday, June 14th, 1980, Carol Bundy called the cops using a fake name and she told them that she thought her lover had killed two girls.

She told the police about the clothes she'd found. Bundy even asked if the cops knew about two girls that had been shot in the head, but the police, they don't give out those type of details. The call ends up getting cut off and Carol Bundy never calls back. The next day, Clark says to Carol Bundy, hey, let's go for a drive. And he even told her while they were driving that he may have to kill her, Carol, because she knew too much about what he had done. He drove to a location near Foothill Boulevard where he told Carol he had dumped the body of a sex worker

after he had shot and killed her. He had kept her underwear and he'd given the rest of the clothes to the 11-year-old girl that we talked about Gibbs that they had sexually abused. Yeah, still gross, man. No, it still is. It's not going to change. This victim would later be named as Marnett Comer, a 17-year-old sex worker. She had run away from Sacramento and she had been working on the sunset strip to survive.

But he doesn't kill Carol. Later on, on June 20th, 1980, they go out for a drive. The two together, they pick up a woman. And they end up shooting this woman and dumping her in some bushes. Later that night, driving around, Clark would spot three sex workers standing together. There was a tall African American girl, a tall, thin, white blonde girl. And then another white girl that was described as a curvacious blonde. He couldn't get any of these women to get into his car, so he decided to drive away.

But later on, he comes back and he finds the tall blonde girl standing by herself. And this girl's name was Exie Wilson. She was a sex worker from Little Rock, Arkansas. She had just moved to the L.A. area with her boyfriend about a week prior to this. And she gets into the car with Clark, and they drive until he found an empty parking lot. behind the sizzler. I don't know if this is the same sizzler that we had, Gibbs, growing up. The Western sizzler? You remember going to the sizzler? Oh yeah. I don't know if this is the same thing. This could be a different place. A little butter on the steak. And while Exie Wilson was in the car with Clark,

she's facing down. Clark shoots her in the back of the head. But as she shot Gibbs, performing a sex act, she bites him as she's dying. If there's anything you learn from watching Shawshank when he talks about the force of the jaw, when someone bites down if you kill them at that time, you know it's not good. That wasn't smart at all. And again, none of this is smart. These people are dipshits, but to think that that's a good idea to shoot somebody in the head when you're in such a compromised position, Clark was in an area Gibbs where he knew nobody was going to stumble upon him.

He was pretty confident. So he dragged her from the car, stripped her of all of her clothes, even stole the ring from her finger. But he was very angry that she'd bid him and he took a knife from his kill bag or his hit kit. But this was a bag that Carol had put together and it contained knives, paper towels, cleansing agents of all kinds of different types, plastic bags, rubber gloves. So again, we go back to Carol's part in this and she's a big part. You know, I think she's going to want to act like she was she had to do this or there was reasons why she had to do it but regardless she did it she was she was a very big part of all of this now Doug clark is going to say that she did it all

and we're going to get into some of that here in a minute Clark is so upset about how this transpired that he decapitates this girl exe wilson and he leaves the body sitting in a pool of blood in a parking lot he puts the head in a a plastic bag and he throws the bag in the back of his car. But after Clark does all this to Exie Wilson, he starts to worry about the other two girls that had been standing with her and the fact that they could possibly identify him. So he goes back to the place where he'd seen him and one of the girls that that was described as the crevacious blonde, she was still there. And she gets into the car with Clark. Now, keep in mind, the head of her friend is in a bag behind her on the floor of the car.

Now, she doesn't see this. He drives her to a place near Burbank Studios, stops the car, shoots her in the left temple, killing her instantly. He takes her earrings, takes her money, and then again, just pushes her body out of the car. Like, like she's a bad piece of melon. I don't even know what, Gibbs. Just, I mean, he's treating. these women like you chuck a McDonald's drink out of your car window. Not that you should do that either, but you know what I'm saying. I got you. Trash. Yeah, like trash. Yeah. The girl's name was Karen Jones, and she had just moved in with Exie Wilson and was said that she was working as a sex worker to take care of her son. Doug Clark and Carol Bundy, they would talk about what happened and these

dead girls, like it was no big deal. And it was almost like their bond was growing deeper because they were involved in all of this together. Right. It went deeper than just a sexual relationship and some dark fantasies. I mean, they were developing a very strong bond over these killings. But they were both worried about being caught. And they started to take some precautions to prevent this from happening. So Doug Clark called a. woman who had known his first two victims and he pretended to be a police officer. But for some reason, he used his own name. He used his real name in identifying himself. He's an idiot there. Yeah, that was, that was not real smart. They also thought it was too dangerous to keep the Buick because this is

the car that most of the murders happened in. So he ended up selling the Buick to one of his old co-workers at the Juergens soap factory. But now, we have to get back to Exie Wilson because he took her head, right? What happened to this head? Well, originally he put it in the freezer inside the bag, but they take it out and Clark and Bundy would play around with this head. Carol Bundy would put makeup on the head and it was said that Clark would perform acts of necrophilia with the head. I'm lost words, man. That's all I can say. I don't know what how to respond no it's tough to respond but let me play this one clip and then we'll talk about it the part decapitated exe wilson in his mind is my opinion that it was another one of his

sexual fantasies and sexual gratification because he not only took the head home and it was frozen but when the head was examined after a thawed uh we found presence of semen within the body and the cavity of the neck area, so tells us what that Doug was taken in the shower and having this head, you know, or only copulated while he's taking a shower. Leroy says, oh, then Doug Clark

took the head into the shower and had sex with it. Now, you know anything about rigor mortis? Anybody in a room, show of hands, anybody heard of rigor mortis? A jaw locked like this? Frozen, supposedly? Remember, Leroy? Frozen?

You take it in the bathroom and you put your penis in its mouth. How do you do that? So that was a clip that I cobbled together. The first part was a detective. The second part was Doug Clark himself in an interview that he did. And I've got some more clips from that interview that were going to play. But this guy, to hear him talk, Gibbs, I don't want to use the word fascinating because that wouldn't be right.

But it is. It's interesting to listen to this guy talk. Now, he's probably so full of shit that he's full up, but he talks a good game. Well, I mean, people aren't idiots, Doug. Clearly, you thawed the head out a little bit, did your thing and then froze it again. Right. Didn't do it while it was frozen. And yeah. That's what I said. It's interesting to hear him talk, but you can also hear a lot of BS. But he also makes some good point. So we're going to talk about some of those here in a minute. But ultimately, they end up packing Exie Wilson's head into a wooden chest and Carol throws it from the car in an alleyway. But the pair, they keep going out. They're out cruising. They're trying to find more victims. But they're finding it very hard because at this point, news of what the media has dubbed the sunset strip killers, it's all over. And so what has happened is it's made sex work.

workers in the area much more careful, much more cautious to the point where they've kind of banded together. They're not working alone like a lot of them often did. Now, Bundy would say at this point, she felt like she was starting to lose her mind over all of this stuff that had been happening. And she felt like Clark was slipping away from her. So she called a friend and she actually told this friend about all the murders, about everything that had been going on. Obviously, Gibbs, his friend said, you know, get to hell out. Get away from this guy. But Carol Bundy just had all kinds of excuses of why she couldn't leave Doug Clark. And after hanging up from this phone call, she called the friend back and said, you know what, I'm writing a short story. I made this is all make-believe.

I just wanted to see how you would react to these terrible, unbelievable details of the story. It was also said around this time that her work as a nurse was suffering, deteriorating. Her coworkers were noticing it that she was acting very strange and erratic. And on July 29th, Carol Bundy attempted suicide. She was sitting in the car in her garage. She injected herself with 1,250 units of insulin and 100 milligrams of Librium. then she swallowed a hundred milligram tablets of Librium as well. So I don't know, I don't know how strong all that stuff is, Gibbs, but didn't sound like

she was playing around. No, not strong enough, fairly. She wrote Clark a letter before this happened with the hopes that he would come rescue her, but he never showed up. She woke up only when the paramedics arrived, and Clark later called her after he got a call from the hospital where she worked. He never went to see her, and it would be Jack Murray. You remember Jack, we talked about...

Yeah, the country, part-time singer... Country singer. And the apartment owner? Yeah, he was the one that came to see her and would end up taking her home. And we have to go back to this 11-year-old girl that Doug Clark had been molesting. Because that is still going on throughout this time period. And there's a story that he has this 11-year-old in his... car and while she's in the car, he picks up another victim. So he has both of these individuals in the

car at the same time. He drops the 11-year-old girl off at her house, but he still has this sex worker in the car with him. And again, he shoots this woman in the back of the head while she was performing oral sex on him. So he didn't learn anything. He didn't learn anything from the previous incident. He ended up dumping her body near a water tower in the Antelope Valley. But before doing this, he laid her body out on the trunk of his car while it was still running and he had sex with her dead body. I mean, this guy is a necrophiliac, no doubt about it. And to make this story even more sad, this woman's never been identified to this day. And she remains named as James. And Jane Doe number 18. She was found. She was wearing a red sweatshirt. That was it. And they have digitally

reconstructed her face. And this was the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children because they're trying to find out who this woman is. Now, Carol Bundy would confess to Jack Murray about all these crimes as well. But again, she would recant saying, you know, no, I'm lying. I'm just kidding. I didn't mean it. But because she had told this to Jack Murray, she started to freak out that he was going to call the police. So she ended up getting Jack into her van on the pretense that they were going to have sex. But instead, she shoots him, cuts off his head. She ended up throwing his head in a trash can. So the one person that ever gave a crap about her, she decides to shoot, cut his head off and just throw it in a trash can. And this is part of the reason why I'm so perplexed. And this is part of the

reason why I'm so perplexed by Carol Bundy because when you hear her talk or in a lot of the statements that she makes, you know, sometimes she's a willing participant. Sometimes she is, you know, being coerced or having to go along with what Doug Clark wants to do. But then you have this story. And she does this all by herself. I mean, Doug Clark's not involved in this. But Bundy was pretty sloppy. You know, she left clues behind that her and Jack had been together. She left behind shell casings. And there were also some witnesses that had seen them together. And I think at this point, Gibbs, she's just a mess.

And she ends up cracking to the point where this pressure is so much, too much for her. And she tells her coworkers that she killed this man named Jack Mert. And she ends up giving a full confession to the police about everything that had happened. She would give graphic details about the murders. She talked about the sexual abuse of the 11-year-old girl. And she even told police that she enjoyed killing. Wow. Trying to come clean.

They found a lot of evidence at the home. There was clips about the murder of Exie Wilson, rounds of ammo. They found bloody footprints at that garage we talked about. 25 caliber bullet in the car. Blood in the car. They found his kill bag in the trunk. So they had quite a bit of evidence to wrap this thing up. They found the guns that we talked about.

They were registered to Carol Bundy, but they found them hidden in a place where Clark worked. So that's pretty telling of who had control of the gun. They were able to match blood in the car to the first two victims. So in the end, Bundy was charged with the murder of Jack Murray and the unknown victim, Jane Doe, number 18. Clark was charged with six murders and all. And he acted at his own defense. at the trial. And Clark's strategy throughout was to blame Carol Bundy for all the killings saying that he was fully innocent in this whole thing, even though he originally admitted to some

things. So again, this guy is, he's out there. But we got to play some of his clips because like I said, they are, they're good. They're good. They're not, probably not true, but they're good. We need to cover the copycat of the Ted Bundy case by Carol Bundy who was writing to the guy death row. She idolized him. The dates of the murders, the style of the murders, the decapitation murder, where the head was left. So this is Clark talking about Carol Bundy saying she was fascinated with Ted Bundy. And he talks a lot about this. And what he's insinuating is that Carol committed all the crimes, but they were done in a way to copycat the murders committed by Ted Bundy. It's very, like I said, it's very interesting. I don't know if any of it,

even has a shred of truth. Right. We know who killed these girls. Jack Murray and Carol Bundy killed these girls. She murdered him. She admits that alone. She admits she decapitate him, stabbed him 26 times in the back or so,

chalked off his head and took his head away. Oh, and slashed off his buttocks for good measure. She committed this crime while she shot him the first time, first of two shots, she says, well, she had her tongue in his anus, called analentous. These two claim, she claims these two had no relationship after January of 1980.

Claims I was her lover after January of 1980. But we have her and the 11-year-old girl who testified about it. In his van, having three-way sex in August, August 1st and 2nd, we have Carol with her tongue in his anus and shooting him in the head and cutting his head off August 4th. Yet they're not even related. They're no relationship, no friendship. We have letters from her that the widow gave up to the police saying she wanted him to be her lord and master. Well, come time when they're not getting along, for whatever reason it was, she whacked him in the same van they murdered the girls, most of the girls in.

Some of the girls were killed in her cars as well. Blood evidence proved that. So more from Doug Clark talking about the fact that now he's involving Jack Murray in the murders. Yeah. And then talking about how Carol killed him. Now, Carol did kill him. Oh, yeah. I don't know about all the anal-lengthus, and there's a lot of anus talk there.

It's the second time I heard that phrase, angol-lengthus, you know, that's really weird. I mean, the first time you were talking about it, but. I was going to say, Gibbs, I don't know anything about this, so school me on this whole anal-lentist thing. That's the way you're going to go now? Yeah. Okay. That's the way I'm going to go.

Oh, that's not how you said before we start recording. Well, and the one thing Gibbs that cracked me up was he called it anal-lentus. And I'm pretty sure it's analingus. And you would know. Like cunnelingus. Yes. It's always lingus. Definitely lingus.

Not linkedus. You can listen to this whole rambling interview that he does. I mean, it's long. There's a film crew and everything that he's talking to. Yeah, I mean, he's very, you know, he's convinced in his head how it went down. And because he can speak eloquently. Yeah. Yeah, he actually does.

So some people, he would be very convincing. He comes across in this interview as very intelligent. But the one thing that I thought about is, you know, this interview happened much later. So he's had years and years of sitting in prison. Oh, piece it together. Going, developing a story, looking at things. There's some interesting side action to this because, you know, the jury does not buy his story at trial.

They convict him. He gets the death penalty in 1983. And he's still on death row at San Quentin. But there have been some questions from people about Clark's conviction because there are some people that believe he has a very solid alibi for five of the seven murders he was convicted of. It's also been said that the judge denied some physical evidence, some witness testimony, banking statements, which, again, as people say, and, This is as people say on the internet.

We know how that is. Right. But that would have cleared him in the death of Exie Wilson. Now, whether that's true or not, I don't know. I'm just throwing it out there. But it's what makes it interesting. It's if some of that stuff is true, along with the things that Doug Clark says, it really muddies the water a little bit in this case.

Or it could be that none of it's true. He killed all these six people. Carol did what she did. And then you have to talk about the testimony from. Carol Bundy. There was some of it that didn't match. She did contradict herself some. And I think to a large degree, he was convicted by the testimony of Carol Bundy. Now, there was other, there was other evidence, but you have to believe, or you have to think that the majority of it would have been the jury hearing the words of Carol Bundy, testifying against Doug Clark. So if she lied on the stand, to me, that's the fascinating piece.

of the puzzle. You know, was she truthful in her testimony or did she make it seem like he did more than he really did? I can't imagine this guy was innocent of all six of these, no way. But because of her testimony, Carol Bundy got a plea bargain. Now, she still got a life sentence, but she was spared the death penalty. She ended up dying in 2003. She was 61 years old. She died from heart failure. But I got to play one more clip from Clark because I don't know, this one, this one just really got You want to know the bottom line reason I'm here? Because Peggy York, Lancito's wife, she's now a captain in the LAPD, murdered five people by her blatant incompetence. Her and six or seven other downtown robbery homicide cops fucked this case up. Okay. She screwed this case up. We have proved it. Students, high school kids. Look at the LAPD chronological clue packages in this case, starting at the first.

they knew of these crimes, June 12th. They solved this murder by June 20th before anybody else died. I just like that one because he threw Lance Edo's wife under the bus. Famous attorney. Yeah. I mean, uh, judge. And actually, I think this interview that he did was sometime around the O.J. Simpson trial. So again, I don't know if that came out of the publicity.

I don't know if you remember Gibbs. There was a lot of publicity about the fact that Judge Lance Edo was married to, you know, a cop that was. on the force and at first I think they thought maybe he might have to recuse himself from the case. Yeah, I remember that. I don't know. If anybody wants to go out there and listen to the whole thing, it is very interesting. I think you, I think you will be bored. No, you will not be bored to listen to Doug Clark talk about serenade you with his bullshit. Yeah, it's very interesting. All right, Gibbs, we got some voicemails, so let's get to those.

To the adult phone would give me on this one, but are they just fine of funny? made me laugh out live. Carol from Rhode Island, love the show. Oh, I love it gives when people really pay attention to the episode and then they have, they really pick out something that kind of tickles them or, you know, something that we say. A little follow-up questions. Yeah, I don't actually remember saying that. I'm sure I did. It's been a while since we did the Adolfo case and Sarah Aldredi. But I don't know. Are there different degrees? I don't know. I'm just leaving it alone. Just leaving it alone. Hi, my name's Bridchell, and I love your podcast. You're my favorite podcast. I do listen to other podcasts, and they mentioned the Oba Chandler case, and I had wrote that down, and I was going to listen to it, and then I logged into your podcast, and all of a sudden you guys were covering Oba Chandler. And one of the most fascinating cases for me is the Menendez brother, and I just want to let you know that I'm watching a Law and Order true crime series that kind of tells the different perspective and it's a little bit interesting. I thought when they came out with the sexual

abuse charges that they were, you know, just BSing, just like little rich brats, I guess, that I thought that they were. And this kind of tells a different story. So I would like you to reconsider and maybe do a follow-up podcast. Um, anyway, team Gideon, team purvey, as I mentioned on my post and keep your own time picky. All right, Gibbs. Great, great voicemail there. I've actually had a lot of people reach out to me about the Menendez Law and Order show because the timing was kind of interesting. We had just put out the two-parter. Right. And then the show came out and I've had a lot of, I haven't watched it yet. I haven't had time to. But I've had a lot of people say that we should watch it. Sure. And then do a follow-up episode. I don't know if we will. I don't know if it'll

change my mind about what happened. So if I, if correct me if I'm wrong, right, this Law and Order episode, it was written by the Mendez brothers. Menendez really. You're going to leave that in, aren't you? I am one more time. Yeah, Menendez brothers. There you go. Yeah.

Point of view. No, I think it's, from what I understand, like I said, I haven't seen it. It's very heavy on the sexual abuse charge angle. Right. And the fact that that may be more valid than what a lot of us have thought over the years. That's my understanding. Like I said, I haven't seen it. But I also know, and I'll go back to like making a murderer. If you watch making a murderer, that whole series of episodes on Netflix, you'll walk away with a certain point of view. But the reason is is because the documentary is

made from the defense's point of view. They're leaving out a lot of the things that would make it look like somebody's guilty. Does that, does that make sense? So again, like I said, I haven't watched it, so I really can't comment on it. All I'll say is some of these shows and documentaries, it depends on the point of view that they're done from, but it could be really compelling. And I will watch it eventually when I get time. Hi, Mike and Gibby. This is Janet Hart from Richmond, Texas. I wanted to let you know I was doing yard work this morning and listen to episode 51 on the Amityville murders.

Thanks for the shout out uping my Patreon. I want you to know that I had not listened to episode 50 and did not know that I was, the shoutout on the ball for the Patreon. That being said, I wanted you to know I upped my Patreon because T-Cat and T-Cat Unsolved are my two favorite podcasts and I wanted to give y'all as much support as I could. Y'all do a great job. Keep up the good work. Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.

Hashtag team Fergie and team Gaby. Thanks. Bye, guys. That's a great voicemail. Appreciate it so much. Absolutely. And again, she loves the podcast. She's willing to support us.

It means a lot. Been around long time with us. Yep. So much, much. Thank you. Love and appreciation. Hey, guys. This is Kate.

Just want to tell you how awesome you are. There are many true crime podcasts, but only two with Mike and Gibby. I enjoy you so much that if the two of you were a condiment, I'd put that bleep on everything. If we were a condiment, she'd put that bleep on everything. We should put that on a shirt, Gibbs. Love it. Love it. Great voicemail.

I'd do like it. I've never been described as a condiment, though. Yeah, people probably think that I pick and choose the voicemails, but I don't. I put them all on. Now, we've gotten so many that I've had to start splitting them up. But it's not like I only put the ones that say, oh, we love you guys. And then I leave off the ones that are critical. If there are some that come in that are critical, I put them on too.

I'm still stuck on condiments. So what are you, mustard, ketchup? I'm definitely mustard, huh? Yeah. You're doing me what with ketchup or mayonnaise, huh? You're more like a salsa? A bernay sauce. I don't know where you're going, man.

Stop now. All right. That's it for episode 53, the sunset strip killers, and another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.