True Crime All The Time - Thomas Bird

Episode Date: April 25, 2022

On July 17th, 1983 Sandy Bird, a wife, and mother of three died in a tragic car accident when her vehicle ran off a bridge and fell down an embankment. The police initially declared her death an accident, but a more thorough investigation revealed an affair and a failed murder-for-hire plot.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the Reverand Thomas Bird. Police eventually zeroed on Bird for the murder of his wife. They also learned that he was having an affair with his church secretary, Lorna Anderson. When Lorna's husband Marty was shot to death later in 1983, police began looking at Thomas for his involvement in Marty's murder.You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 280 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in True Crime. Mike Gibson, give me, how are you? I'm doing good, man. How about yourself? You know, I'm doing very well. The issue that I'm having is you and I are getting ready to go to CrimeCon.

Yeah. Which means we have to do a bunch of stuff ahead of time to be able to take those, you know, three, four days off. So it's a lot of work. But it'll be nice once we. We get to CrimeCon, we don't have to worry about anything. You know, speaking of CrimeCon, for those of you that are going, they're definitely doing things a little differently this year. The schedule came out.

And, you know, in years past, it would say, okay, podcast row is going to be like this two hour block of time. Right. It looks like this year they're making podcast row a very large block of time and then telling us that we can just pick the two-hour block of time. and then telling us that we can just pick the two hour period that we want to be there. Right. That's great for us because it gives us flexibility. I have a feeling it's going to be a little tougher on the folks that are going who may want to stop by and see us because how are they going to know when we're going

to be there. Right. So you and I talked about it. I talked about it with Morph a little bit. If you're not subscribed to our Instagram, Twitter, and you're going to, to CrimeCon, definitely do that now because I think that's probably where we'll put it out. Once we figure out when exactly we'll be there on the three days, I'll post it out there. Yeah.

Probably should sign up or subscribe, sign up. Subscribe. That way you get the notification. Gives, let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. We had Hydrin Dora. Hey, Hydrin. June. What's going on June?

Doug Hancock. Hey, thanks, Hancock. Laura Morgan. What's going on, Laura? April Jensen Hey April Primitive guitars I feel like I'm doing like a guitar riff right now

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Siren Donaldson jumped out at her highest level. Man, thanks, Siren. Yeah, appreciate all the new support. And then if we go back into the vault, this week we selected Kimber Munks. So big shout out to all the people who continue to support us month after month on Patreon. Yeah, appreciate that, Kimber. We had PayPal donations from Rebecca in the memory of her friend and a great fan of the show named Tammy Suzuki.

Well, thank you, Rebecca. Yeah, her email was very heartwarming. I appreciated it very much. We also had Judy Larson. Hey, Judy. And Lynn Wilson. Well, thank you, Lynn. Gibbs, we had a Patreon merch winner for March, and it was Christy Sherbaum.

Well, hey, congratulations, Christy. Yeah, congrats to Christy. Gibbs, right now we have an episode out on T-Cat Unsolved. We're headed to West Virginia to discuss the disappearance of the Sodder. children. Yeah, what a great case. You know, we're going to dive into what happened that night and plunge down some rabbit holes. I know you're always happy when you get to plunge down those rabbit holes. I am. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time and talk about Reverend Thomas Burke? And I am. On July 17, 1983,

Sandy Bird, a wife and mother of three, died in a tragic car accident when her vehicle ran off a bridge and fell down an embankment, the police initially declared her death an accident, but then a more thorough investigation revealed an affair and a failed murder for hire plot. Two years later, Sandy's husband, the former Reverend Thomas Bird, was convicted of first-degree murder. So we already kind of know what we're dealing with here. We've got a man of the cloth. We've got an affair. murder for hire.

There's going to be some interesting facets to this case. Thomas Bird was the son of a minister. He earned two master's degrees in theology and eventually became a pastor himself. According to the L.A. Times, Tom was described as having abundant charisma and energy. Just like you. Just like me. Except I am not a pastor. Tom Bird was very athletic, just like.

me. He was a distance runner in college. And it was said Gibbs that he ran about five miles every day, which is a healthy run. I would say so. Not something that I could pull off in my current state, but this fact that he, you know, was able to run five miles a day, it's a detail that would be used against him later on in his tribe. Tom was also a member of a local basketball team. Sandra Bird was described as being small and high energy. Maybe a little ball of fire. I'm sure you could spit fire. Spitfire?

You can think of a bunch of different terms. Yeah. You know, you think about, you know, my wife, kind of shortened stature. She is. But she'll get fired up on you. Oh, I've seen her get fired up. And she has a tremendous amount of energy. Sandra was also highly educated and earned a master's degree.

in mathematics. I remember when I got my master's in mathematics when I was 16. It felt really good. Yeah. Well, you know, and then you went on to teach some. So who knows, Gibbs, how many lives you touched with your knowledge, your incredible teaching ability in the area of mathematics. It's very rewarding.

It's also, I think, why you're so good at the money conversions. Yes. The beep, be, beep, beep, bo, bo, beep, bo, bo, peep. Nailed it. You know, you're usually spot on. And when you're not, people will email in and tell me that you're not. Sandra and Thomas Bird moved from Arkansas to Kansas in 1982. Tom was going to lead a congregation at Faith Lutheran Church in Emporia, Kansas. Reverend Bird built up to church significantly. And just the matter of about a year, he helped establish a daycare center, softball and volleyball teams. and got new families to visit every Sunday.

Hey, you put a daycare center into a church, probably definitely going to make a big difference. Well, I mean, you know, you just kind of read this and you say, okay, sounds like he was the right man for the job, right? He was growing the congregation. He was doing things that made people want to come on Sunday. Sandy was hired as a professor at Emporia State University and was also working on a second degree and computer math. It was through the church softball team that Tom met Martin and Lorna Anderson,

another married couple. The Anderson's had four young girls, but they also had a troubled marriage. It was reported that Lorna had had several affairs in the past. She was known Gibbs for being able to get men to do anything she wanted. Special powers? Maybe. She also had joked to friends about,

killing her husband and had once asked an attorney to prepare divorce papers. So I said, you know, troubled marriage, well, there's a lot of troubled marriages out there. When you start thinking about killing your husband or your spouse, that's a little bit beyond troubled. Disturbing. At one point, Tom hired Lorna as his part-time secretary. I think the issue Gibbs is that the birds. We're also having marital problems. Tom was said to be frustrated that Sandy worked so much.

In the summer of 1983, Sandy learned that she was getting a promotion to teach more classes in the fall, which would have her working even more hours. Sandy told a friend she was worried that Tom didn't love her anymore. On Saturday, July 16th, Tom and Sandy went out to dinner and a movie, they stopped at their home at 9, 30 p.m. Sandy went inside to get a bottle of cold duck for herself and whiskey for top. She told the babysitter they'd be back by 10.30. So just going to have a drink or two and be back in an hour. Well, it sounds like a pretty good date night, right? You got dinner. You got a movie. Cold duck, which I'm not all that familiar with. Whiskey, which I am familiar with. Yeah.

But in the early morning hours of July 17th, Sandy's car ran off a rocky Ford bridge and overturned in the Cottonwood River outside Emporia, Kansas. Lyon County Authority said she missed a bend in the road and fell 20 feet down the embankment. She was found face down in the river below the bridge. When an officer went to the house to deliver the news, Tom Bird asked him, what was she? she doing out there? We never go there. Then he asked, where is it? Kind of meaning, where did this accident take place? Now, you can look at that and draw some conclusions or make some assumptions from that. Oh, you absolutely can. I think if those questions were asked in the order that it's been reported they were asked, you would have to look at it as very up. Why would you ask

those first two questions and then come back and ask that third question, which doesn't make any sense. Yeah, because the first two kind of imply you already know where it happened. And then you're following up with the third basically saying, oh yeah, by the way, where did this happen? Tom told the police that he and Sandy had a drink at the church office. She drove to her office at the university and he stayed behind to review his sermon. She was supposed to pick him up later that night, but she never did. Tom said he called the babysitter before midnight to check if Sandy came home. Then he called the university police and city police to report his wife missing. But the babysitter told police that Tom called home after midnight to ask if Sandy had called.

Tom also told the police that he went jogging so that he could think about the sermon. And apparently this was something that he did quite a bit. but the babysitter reported that he came home in a shirt and tie. Well, it's a different way to jog now. You know, wear your shirt and tie when you're out there putting some miles in. Now, you can make the argument that, okay, did he change and change back? But I think if you're the police, you have to be questioning his stories, kind of, you know, some of the questions that he asked.

Dr. Juan Gabriel performed the autopsy and determined. that Sandra died from a car accident, her car missed the bridge and fell down the embankment into the river. Her most serious injury was a transacted kidney, which apparently is common in car accidents. Dr. Gabriel found that Sandra's death was caused by blood loss or hemorrhage due to internal injuries caused by blunt trauma. He estimated that her death occurred 30 minutes to one hour after her injuries when she was ejected into the water. But I think what a lot of people have had a hard time explaining is why there was no water found in Sandy's lungs. Yeah, it's interesting that couldn't find any water in her lungs. Sandy's death was officially declared an accident. She was

only 32 years old when she died. Sandy left behind her husband Tom and three children. So Gibbs, we didn't go into, you know, a lot of the background. Obviously, they met, they married, they had kids. But I do want to go back to this autopsy. It was reported that no one questioned Dr. Gabriel's decision until police officers took photos and measurements at the scene. Authorities noticed that the driver's seat of Sandy's car was pushed all the way back. Sandy was five foot one and normally needed to sit very close to the steering wheel. as you know, right, your wife sits very close to the steering wheel. You could tell if she wasn't driving that vehicle, right? Yeah, I could definitely tell. Now, you and I have done a number of cases, right, especially unsolved, where the victim's car was found and the seat was pushed back in a way that you would think the victim was not the last person to drive it. Now, we've received a lot of voicemails from people saying, well, my car automatically pushes back.

or the seat automatically moves when I turn the car off. Now, we're talking 1983 here. I don't think they would have had cars that did that back then. Sandy's friends and family said she always wore a seatbelt. But we already mentioned it, right? Sandy was ejected from the car. The officers at the scene didn't notice any skid marks on the road that would have indicated Sandy hit the brakes or lost control of her car.

Her blood alcohol level in the initial autopsy showed that she was not intoxicated when she died. So she didn't drink a lot of that cold duck line? There was no blood or hair in the interior of the car, which I think many people would have expected in this type of serious accident where someone is thrown, you know, outside of the vehicle. But I do want to go back to, you know, the skid marks on the road. I get why police would question that. You know, just think about yourself if you're driving and something happens. All of a sudden, you see that you took a corner way too fast. Right.

You're coming up on something bad. Your first reaction is going to be to hit the brakes. But if you spun out, let's say, well, you're going to have tire marks from that. Sure. The only reason you wouldn't is if you decided that's the direction you wanted to go in. And you weren't going to do anything about it. Yeah. Or someone else wanted you go in that direction.

Yeah. And obviously we're going to get into all of that. On July 18th, Tom talked about Sandra's death with a few different people. And apparently he gave inconsistent statements about what happened that night. His different versions of his activities, the evening of Sandra's death, were definitely inconsistent. consistent. Tom told one person that in the early evening, Sandy brought hamburgers to the church and they ate dinner together. Sandy changed clothes at church and then they went to the movies. And then after that is when they stopped at the house at 930. Sandy grabbed the bottle of wine, bottle of whiskey. They went back to the

church and had a drink. And then afterwards they went to a private club and had two more drinks each. Tom said they left the club at 1045 and went back to the church. Sandy dropped him off and went to the university to work. Tom said he went jogging between 1115 and 1145. He said he jogged almost three miles. He also said that Sandy said she was only going to be gone for 45 minutes to an hour, but she never came back. Tom drove by the school after midnight. Sandy wasn't there. Tom then called the babysitter. university security, the Emporia police, the Lyon County Sheriff's Office, and the hospital. So let's break this down a little bit because to me there are some strange things. Not strange that, you know, you want to go to a movie. You want to go to dinner.

You want to have a drink afterwards. I get all that. I could even see somebody having a couple of drinks and then maybe, you know, going back to the university to work. I think for me, it's very tough to believe that I've had three or four pretty stiff alcoholic drinks. Right. And then I'm going to go on a three mile job. Yeah, I can't see that happening with most people. Yeah, I can't bring myself to do it stone cold sober. I'm sure as hell not going to try it after three or four whiskeys.

It's just not going to happen. I also don't get why after having a few drinks that should. she would want to go to the university just for 45 minutes. What are you going to accomplish in that time that couldn't wait until the next day? Yeah, I did find it a little bit odd, especially after you've had, you know, a couple of soda pops. You're going to go into work and, you know, risk running into people and then finding out that you're, you're a little bit tipsy. But let's go back to her blood alcohol level. She wasn't intoxicated.

So does that just in and of itself kind of contradict this story that she had X amount to drink? Yeah, because the way that he's telling this is that she drank some of the wine and had two additional drinks. So you would think that would register. Yeah, you would think. Dr. Gabriel's autopsy determined that Sandy died within three hours of eating the hamburger. So if we go back to what Tom said, he said they ate around 7 p.m. which means that Sandy most likely died around 10 p.m. And by Tom's own account, they were still together at that time.

Yeah, they left the, what, stopped by the house at 9.30? So that would put them together at that moment. But I think you would have to say, Gibbs, at the very least, none of this really looks good for Tom, right? The inconsistencies and the statements, things don't match up with, you know, the results from the autopsy. But the problem is police didn't have just based on all this enough evidence to arrest him. And then another tragic death would soon affect the community. On November 4th, 1983, Marty Anderson was shot to death on a remote two-lane road in Geary County.

Marty, Lorna and their children were driving from Manhattan to Emporia. Lorna Anderson told the police that she felt sick. So they stopped the car. She ran into a field to vomit and somehow lost the keys. So she called out to Marty for help as they searched for the keys and assailant in a ski mask approached and shot at Marty twice killing him. Man, you talk about a very, very random killing. Right. I think if you're the police and you're hearing that.

this story, you've got to be a little bit dubious that it just so happens. You stopped off at the side of the road for no reason that anybody else could have known you were going to stop for. And then while you're out there getting sick, you drop the keys, you have to ask for your husband. And then all of a sudden, an unknown assailant attacks. And kills your husband. And kills your husband. But not you. Seems unbelievable. It does. And I can tell you right now, the sheriff's deputies didn't believe her story. And for some of the same things that we just talked about, number one, how did the killer know where they would stop? Right. You were talking about the ultimate, like, crime of opportunity. You just happened to see somebody stopped along the side of a highway or a road. If that person was that good, they should be playing a lotto all the time. And then I think secondly, why would this person want to kill Mark? unless it was just strictly, hey, I'm a killer and I see these people on the side of the road, here's my opportunity.

Outside of that, there would be no reason. Yeah, but then why not kill her also? Well, and I think things got even more cloudy when Tom Byrd spoke on Lorna's behalf that raised the suspicion on the part of the police even more. Eventually, Emporia authorities uncovered a plot to kill Marty. Lorna Anderson offered a local building contractor $5,000 to kill her husband so that she could collect his life insurance money. The 5,000 came from Tom Bird, Gibbs, which turned out to be part of his wife's insurance proceeds. So now, you know, you've got a real conspiracy thing going on.

This is almost like a throw mama from the train or a hitchcock. What's the hitchcock? Double indemnity. Yeah. You know, I take care of yours. You help me take care of mine. Strangers on a train. Strangers on a train.

Yeah. Thank you. But either way, as police start to unravel all these details, again, there is no way this can be just a coincidence. In March 1984, Tom and Lorna were arrested and charged with, criminal solicitation. Tom's solicitation trial began on July 23rd, 1984. But this is all about the murder of Marty, right? Police are suspicious, but they're not willing to charge Tom at that point with anything having to do with his wife's death. The prosecution found that the first solicitation

of murder occurred on May 10th, 1983, and the second on September 7th of that same year. Darrell Carter, an acquaintance of Lorna Anderson, was the star witness. He said he had an affair with Lorna in early 1983. In May of 83, he spoke with Tom and Lorna at First Lutheran Church. That was when Tom suggested arranging Marty's death. This guy said Tom told him, Lorna didn't want a divorce and that he knew a place outside town where a gravel road curved around a 50-foot drop-off into a river. The death could be made to look like an accident.

Okay, so this is damaging for a couple of different reasons. Number one, this guy is putting Tom in the role of orchestrating Marty's murder. Sure. But we know Marty's murder didn't happen this way, but whose death did happen this way? Well, Tom's wife, Sandy. Daryl said, Tom suggested drugging Marty at home, taking him down to the river, pushing his car into the river, and then killing Marty. Sounds kind of familiar? Very familiar. Lorna would stay at home so that it wouldn't look suspicious.

That was the first plan. The second plan involved faking a robbery and shooting Marty in Topeka, Kansas. A tape recording of a conversation between Tom and Daryl Carter in December 1983. revealed that Tom told Daryl they should keep each other clean and keep clear of the investigation. Darrell testified that Tom said, I am a man of God and I'm going to kill Martin Anderson. Wow, that is a very strange sentence. Yeah, it's kind of. Statement.

Yeah, it's kind of conflicting. Right. If you're a man of God, you shouldn't be killing anyone, right? I'm pretty sure that's a very, very big no-no in the world of religion. I say it is. But Darrell refused to take part in their plans. Good for him. Because so many people look at, you know, five, $10,000 and think, yeah, that's worth it for me to end the life of another human being.

You and I don't understand it. We can never figure it out. I get it. Five, $10,000 is a lot of money. Get you a second job. Yeah. You know, sell Hawaiian ice down by the dock or whatever. Down by the dock.

All right. You and Otis Redding just sitting there on the dock of the bay. Oh, man. Eating Hawaiian ice. Hawaiian ice. I do shave my own ice. Okay. I'm glad you.

That I thought was definitely going in a very, very bad direction. But I'm glad you cleared it up. You know, both Gibby and I are getting older. We've made no secret about that. As we all get older, we're more concerned about affordable health care, lower prescription costs, and protecting social security and Medicare. That's why we've both teamed up with AARP. AARP advocates for you and offers financial and job resources,

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happens every day criminals do the strangest things so you know to basically tell a jury there's no way that you can find this guy credible because it's story is just too outlandish. But maybe Gibbs, they didn't have anything else, you know, to impeach him with. Daniel Carter, Daryl's younger brother, was accused of actually accepting $5,000 to kill Marty Anderson. Daniel was Lorna's hairdresser. And he had also had an affair with her.

Daryl Carter came to the police to tell them everything. On January 26, 1984, Daniel Carter, pleaded guilty to a reduced charge of criminal solicitation to commit first-degree murder. He did admit to accepting the $5,000 to find someone to kill Martin. He received a two to five-year suspended sentence, four years probation, and a $1,000 fund. Sounds like a slap on the hand. Yeah, I think you definitely could view it as a slap on the wrist.

You know, as we get further into this episode, maybe it will make more sense because police are never really sure Gibbs who actually killed Marty Anderson. So if all he did was take the money but didn't actually set up, you know, someone to kill him, okay, maybe it would make a little more sense that it's, it's a pretty lenient sentence. Maybe not. Gregory Curry was a welder who worked with Daniel Carter at the Wolf Creek Nuclear Power Plant in Burlington. Curry pleaded guilty to a reduced charge of criminal solicitation. He was arrested in

December of 1983. He arranged for Daniel Carter to meet a man who would kill Marty. And he actually got a bigger sentence. In February of 84, he was sentenced to two to five years in prison. Another witness, Charles Henderson, a former inmate at Lansing State Penitentiary, testified that he was placed in a cell next to Tom Burr. Byrd, Tom indicated that he was involved in Sandy's death. Tom also told him how much he and Lorna would receive from the insurance companies on redirect examination. Henderson testified that Tom said he arranged Sandy's death.

And apparently Gibbs, Tom's defense never presented any evidence arguing against this. And maybe they didn't have any. But you'd have to admit it's kind of a strange case, right? we have two people dead and in the middle of it this kind of love triangle a number of supposed hitmen or people trying to find hitman there's a lot going on here definitely a bizarre case witnesses from the church testified that there was electricity between tom and lorna apparently they had pet names for each other like you and me yeah like we do yeah we do yeah We can't say those pet names, though, can we?

I don't think we should let them out of the bag. Yeah. But I do think, you know, if you're a married pastor and this is a married woman who is part of your congregation, the fact that you have pet names for each other kind of spells it out that there's a little bit more going on than just kind of the normal, uh, church going experience. Sounds like he's in the wrong profession. Investigators found two cards from Tom in Lorna's room. One said, I love you, and I'm confident of the future. And that makes the present okay. Tom signed another card. Love you always. Tom testified that the card showed what he called Christian love, not romantic love. Now, the word love is an interesting word. And it can mean a number of different things.

things. It could. But if you're coupling that with, you know, parishioner saying there was electricity, they saw it, they had pet names for each other. Okay. Then I think it makes that argument that these cards are not romantic in nature

a little tough to sell. Yeah, there's a difference between you, I love you, man, and I love you, Snokey. I know.

When you go home at night after we tape, I say, I love you, man. Yeah. That's just how we roll. I'm like, yeah, I love you too, Bear. But it is definitely not a romantic love. It's a bromance.

Yeah, exactly. And that's what it is. Tom Bird was convicted of solicitation of first degree murder on August 1st, 1984. Then on August 30th, Bird was sentenced to two and a half to seven years. Kind of light for solicitation of murder, isn't it? It does seem like it,

but that very first guy didn't sound like he. did any prison time. So the other thing that that I thought was kind of interesting is that you have three different individuals convicted of solicitation for the same murder. And I think it goes back to my point Gibbs of I'm not 100% sure that authorities really know who killed Marty Anderson. We'll probably talk about it later as we go along. Now, what they did know was that all three of these guys were involved in some way of at least planning or trying to hire someone to kill Marty. But I mentioned it before, right? When we talked about Sandra's death, police didn't believe Tom. They didn't believe his story. The things that he said after her death

didn't add up. And I think, you know, after all of this came out, the solicitation, obviously this kind of romance that seemed to be going on between he and Lorna, that's when prosecutors pushed for Sandy's remains to be exhumed. Yeah, I think it's important. You know, let's, let's take a look at those again. Because now we have even more dirt on this guy. Exactly. He looks scumier. He looks like he could be involved in Sandy's death because he was capable of doing other things for which he was already convicted. Yeah. So let's exhumer and see what we can find. Her remains were exhumed on October 2nd, 1984, and examined by Dr. William Eckert, a forensic pathologist. His job was to determine if Sandra was killed when she was ejected from the vehicle or as a result of being attacked and thrown into the river.

He noted fractures on her shoulder blade and a laceration on the top of her head, which to him indicated blunt trauma. capable of rendering her unconscious. There were three injuries above her left wrist, which was fractured. There were more injuries on her right arm and elbow joint. I think to Eckert, these all looked like defensive injuries. The injuries to Sandy's kidneys could have been caused from, you know, her falling from a height greater than 20 feet. But Dr. Eckert concluded that Sandy was struck on the head.

with a blunt object and died from a blow to the back. Most likely when she fell from the bridge into the river. So this guy is saying foul play. At least based on his medical expertise, he did not believe that she died from a car accident. In February, in 1985, a grand jury heard all of the information and they charged Tom with first degree murder.

His trial began on July 2nd, 1985. This guy's having a bad couple of years. Yeah, he is. At trial, the prosecution presented 65 witnesses and over 100 exhibits. The prosecution argued that Sandy and Tom went to the river. They got out of the car and walked on to the bridge where they talked. Tom beat Sandy and forced her off the bridge. Then he pushed her car from the river.

the road into the river and jogged seven miles from the bridge to the church. He changed before he went home because his clothes would have been covered with dirt and blood. They argued that the motive to kill Sandy was his affair with Lorna Anderson. And who didn't see that coming? Not me. I mean, you didn't see it coming or you did not not see it coming? I did not not see it coming. Yeah.

I mean, you look back at so. many cases that we've done over the years. Now, take out serial killers. What are the most common motives for an individual to murder his or her spouse? Financial. Grieved, right? They want their hands on somebody's life insurance policy, which I think he did. Sure. And or they're in love with someone else and they want to get out of the marriage, but they don't want to give up. anything, they won it all. And I think you could argue that here as well. Some of the things brought up by the prosecution, we mentioned it already, but there were no skid marks on the road to indicate that her vehicle went out of control. There was blood on the

bridge and on a tree about 20 feet from the car. The blood type matched Sandra's. So probably asking that question to the jury, right? How could her blood be? You know, could her blood be on this tree if she was ejected from the vehicle and fell in the river. Sandy's watch was found under the bridge near a tree with blood on it. Sandy's friends also testified at trial that she had been depressed about the state of her marriage before her death. But Tom's defense argued that Sandy's death was just a tragic accident. And all the prosecution had was circumstantial evidence. I mean, I think there's some good questions there. though, right? There is, but would you say that there is more than circumstantial evidence? I don't know if there is. People can be

convicted on purely circumstantial evidence. And that's what happened to Tom Byrd. On July 23rd, 1985, Tom was found guilty of first degree murder. And then on August 7th, he was sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of parole after 15 years. Later that same month, on August 24th, Lorna Anderson pleaded guilty to two counts of solicitation of first degree murder. She was sentenced to four to 18 years in prison. So she got a much heftier sentence than any of the other guys involved. She did. But to me, that makes sentence, right? Who would be the catalyst for starting all of this wanting her husband dead? Well, it would be the wife, Lorna Anderson. Yeah, I mean, she orchestrated it. Yeah. And she did admit that she plotted to kill Marty, but she said it was because he beat her and he abused her. She said Tom gave her the

$5,000. And she gave it to a middleman who was supposed to arrange the murder. She said, She said she gave the money to Daniel Carter. Then he gave it to Gregory Curry who tried to arrange a hitman to kill Marty. She also accused Tom of helping her and her plan to kill Marty. So it wasn't just the fact that he gave her $5,000. You could explain that away, right? As a defense attorney, you could say, well, this woman, they were having an affair. He cared for her.

she said she needed $5,000. Well, he didn't know what the $5,000 was for. He just gave it to her. He just gave it to her because he loved her and he wanted to help her out. But now she's coming out and saying it, right? He was involved. He helped in the planning of Marty's murder. But nowhere in here, right, have we talked about who actually killed Marty Anderson.

Thomas Bird fought for years trying to get a retrial. He argued that the state had no physical evidence. They didn't have any eyewitness testimony. His first appeal was rejected on December 5th, 1986. And I guess Gibbs, while he was in prison, he was an exemplary inmate. He co-founded convicts for Christ. He even organized a tennis marathon to raise money for the Ronald McDonald house. At least he's doing something good when he was in prison.

The guy was a preacher. right, a pastor. He had to, at some point in time, have some goodness inside of him. Now, obviously, he got led astray or he went astray in a very, very major way. He also married, again, to a woman named Terry Smith on August 4th, 1988. Terry worked at a Lutheran school in Kansas City. She met Tom at church shortly after Sandy's death. Terry told the LA Times, people say I must be crazy, but I have been to every trial. I have both feet on the ground. Tom and Terry even started a marriage enrichment seminar in 1988 for inmates and their spouses. So you and I often talk about people, you know, writing to convicted

felons and falling in love with him and all that. Sometimes I really don't understand it. This one is very different. These two knew each other before kind of all of this happened. Now, you could still make the argument that, okay, does it make sense for you to marry a person who's going to be in prison for a very long time? That's up to you. George Costanza would say yes. He would. Kind of like that, didn't he? Well, because you know you're not going to get the pop in. That's right. And George also didn't have great luck with women. So at a certain point, he kind of had to be a certain point. He kind of had to be a to take what he could give. Gibbs in 1987, CBS released a TV movie on the case titled Murder Ordened.

In December of 1986, Robert Hecht filed a suit in a Los Angeles federal court on behalf of Tom Bird to stop production, arguing that the film inaccurately portrayed his involvement in the deaths of Sandy Bird and Martin Anderson. Tom told the Kansas City Times, we feel they built up a sexual relationship that is very repulsive. They have no grounds except statements made by that secretary. So he's basically saying he didn't have a sexual relationship with Lauren Anderson. That's what he saying. They were just in love with each other.

They had pet names. He was willing to give her $5,000. But outside of that, nothing else. Nothing else. Nothing physical. And Gibbs, if you believe that one, and then I have a bridge to sell you. Don't believe you, but I always would like a nice bridge.

Well, who wouldn't? I can make it happen. Bird said in a prison interview that the movie series is not true. The writer and director said he based the movie on Lorna's interviews, some of which she has recanted. He also based it on trial transcripts and newspaper articles. According to UPI, Byrd said of Lorna, I rose up as a night in shining. armor and felt that she was being mistreated and needed my help. I was alone. She was alone.

and we had all these kids. Little did I know. She would turn out to be the dragon herself. So the relationship did not work out the way he hoped it would. But do you think that criminals are often happy with the way that they're portrayed up on the screen? Yeah, I don't think so. I don't think so either. Like the truth hurts, you know. Yeah, there's a big series out now on the Showtime Lakers from the 80s. It's on HBO, I think. Yeah. And there's a whole bunch of the people that were around the team at that time coming out and saying,

oh, I can't believe that you portrayed us this way. They're not happy about it. And as far as I know, they didn't even kill anyone. Scott Kraft of the LA Times wrote a letter to Tom after one of his former associates emailed him to say that the documentary was unfair to him. Tom agreed to an interview. in this interview Tom admitted that he and Sandy had marital problems neither one of them liked how much they were working on the night she died they discussed how they didn't have time for each other

okay that is not unusual it's tough in a marriage where both individuals are working you know we're all working longer hours you are and we have been for years and years and years it just seems like every year they want us to work a little bit longer, a little bit harder for the same amount of money. Exactly. Yeah, if you got a job, kids, even no kids, but especially if you have kids, man, it's really difficult. It is to find time to spend together quality time to keep the kind of the spark in the, in the relationship. Tom said that the babysitter was wrong about what he was wearing that night. He put on a polo shirt after his run, not a shirt and tie. He told Kraft, the babysitter, bless her heart, was wrong about that. I was wearing a tie probably 15 to the 20

time she saw me, but not that night. Why would I change into a tie after running? It doesn't make sense. No, it does not make sense at all. Tom also said that the babysitter was wrong when she said that he called at 1 a.m. Campus and City Police record show he called home before calling the police. Tom said he only called the police after he called home. He said the babysitter was a good kid, but she was only 14 years old. I think she may have fallen asleep and not known what time it was. After she told me no one had called, I called the campus police. Tom said he asked where the accident was because he'd never been there. He insisted, I don't know whether it was an accident or suicide or murder. All I know is that I didn't kill Sandy. When he talked about Lorna, Tom said she was emotionally attached to me. And on my end,

there was a need to be needed. I like the idea of being needed. So I unprofessionally let that happened. It was more emotional than physical, but Gibbs he did admit that they had sex three or four times after he wrote the letters to her in early 1984 before his arrest in March 1984. And maybe he would admit this because it was after the death of his wife. So he felt like admitting that part wouldn't hurt him as opposed to admitting the fact that. that he had sex with this woman before his wife, dot, which in anyone's eyes would be a much more damning admission. Oh, for sure. Especially somebody like him. Yeah, somebody like him and the profession that he's in. But then I think it, you know, really, if you looked at it that way, if it did happen

that way, you can easily connect the dots and make the pieces of the puzzles fit, right? I'll get rid of my wife, we'll figure out how to get rid of your husband, and then we can be together. And we can be happy just like we have talked about. Lorna had said in interviews that Tom told her it was less evil to kill than to get a divorce. I'd like to have him explain that one to me. It's just not the type of words that you would expect to come out of a pastor's mouth, right? I get it. A lot of religions are against divorce. But what religion is not against murder? Cold-blooded murder.

Right. I mean, he's not going to agree that he's ever said that. No, he's called it preposterous. He said Lorna typed notes from his lectures where he discussed this view, but he taught against that. Lorna also gave a statement to Kraft after her trial. She said, I had a real problem, not feeling good about myself. Tom was very supportive, very encouraging.

He told me that I was not what he needed in a wife, but he could make me into what he needed. Okay, like with any case, right? You have to try to figure out who's telling the truth. There's always somebody saying one thing and somebody else arguing the exact opposite. Do you really want to be that person that is not what they, need, but they can mold you and make you into what they need. I don't think most people do.

Yeah, that's not a good way to be in a relationship. No, I think most people are like, hey, this is me. Take me how, you know, I am, take it or leave it. Don't try to change me. Craft spoke with John Rule, the highway patrol officer who found Sandy's body. Officer Rule said he had a feeling about the accident from day one. He couldn't find any skid marks that showed. the driver attempted to stop the car.

He found Sandy's watch under the bridge and drops of blood on the bridge and on the trees below. He said, I thought something had happened on that bridge. I bet he did because where he found the watch and the blood, it makes sense that something happened on the bridge. But apparently highway patrol workers were ruining the potential crime scene. They trampled over the river while the body and car were. were removed. Rule expressed his concerns to the sheriff who brushed him off. He said, there was a mountain of evidence down there. If you had been working a homicide, I was sure she didn't die in a traffic wreck, but I didn't have the training to prove otherwise. Then Gibbs in 1989,

Tom Bird proposed new evidence that he said would show Sandy took her own life. A week before Sandy's death, he said they were at a church conference with two couples, the Boisins and the Smiths. Al Boisen and Charles Smith were ministers. Pat, Boyson, and Carolyn Smith, their wives were alone with Sandra one afternoon. Sandra cried and said she was upset because her husband spent too much time with his secretary, Lorna Anderson. She told Carolyn and Pat that a church preschool teacher once told her she wished she would die in a car accident so she could have Tom. Sandra apparently had lost some weight and she appeared depressed. Wow. A church preschool teacher told her that this woman wished Sandy would die in a car accident because she wanted Tom.

Who doesn't want this Tom guy? Tom's pretty popular. His secretary, the church preschools. teacher. Now, he's telling this story. So again, you have to figure out who's telling the truth, who's lying, who's stretching the truth. He said at another point during the conference, the Smiths and birds were having drinks. They were relaxing. They had a joking conversation about the new life insurance policies they got through the church. Pastor Smith made a joke that he would have to watch out for his wife because she would do him in for the money. Carolyn said, well, I'd have to be very careful now. And who hasn't had that kind of joking interaction with somebody about a life insurance policy

or something saying, oh, I better watch out. My wife's going to, you know, do something to me so she can get her hands on it or my husband's going to do something to me. Many have joked about it. I know for a fact, my wife and I have joked around about it. Sometimes I think she might be a little serious. I think she might be. Sometimes I think you might be involved in the planning.

I might be. Because this is a recording. No, I'm just joking. I have nothing to do with it. Too late. You're on record for all time. Pastor Smith recalled that each person stated what they thought would be the best way to kill themselves to get insurance money.

Sandra said that if she were going to, take her own life. She would use a car because it would look like an accident and the insurance company would pay. Carolyn Smith testified that she considered the remark to be a joke added to what she called a lighthearted conversation. And I think if I heard that, that's exactly how I would take it. Yeah, I think so too. I mean, unless somebody's like super depressed when they're telling you that. Well, but here's my thing. It's not like she just came out of the blue and offered it up. Right. everyone is saying they're all sitting around joking about okay how would you do it it's still a very macabre conversation for a bunch of pastors and their wives to be having but i guess they're human

just like the rest of us when caroline first learned sandra died in a car accident she thought sandra had taken her life she called the boys and told them that sander died and reminded them of what Sandra said during their conversation. Pastor Smith testified that he believed Sandra took her life because he didn't think her death was an accident, but didn't want to believe she was murdered. Smith also told this to Tom Byrd, Tom's brother, Tom's defense attorney, Irvshaw, and Glenn Peglow, another attorney. He was called as a witness for the defense, but was not asked about the possibility of

suicide. On September 14, 1984, Special Agent Vernon Humphrey of the Kansas Bureau of Investigation got a phone call from Mark Burchler, Chief of Police in Mariana, Arkansas. Burchler heard from a friend of Pastor Smith that Sandra sent Smith a suicide note. Bertzler believed Smith was upset with Tom because he thought he was unfaithful to Sandra. So Agent Humphrey made a report. and gave it to Bird's attorney. Agent Humphrey traveled to Tampa to interview Pastor Smith. Smith said that Sandy left him a note at the end of the conference.

It read, Dear Charlie, Things are better now with Tom and I. I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to talk to you this weekend, but I have hope for the future, Sandy. Sandra had called him several times in the months leading up to her death to talk about her anxiety and about her husband. Ben's relationship with Lorna.

So, you know, on the one hand, Gibbs, I'm kind of confused because Pastor Smith called this a suicide note, but when you read it, I didn't get that. Yeah, I didn't either. Basically, she's saying, hey, things are going better. Sorry I didn't get a chance to talk to you. And she ends it by saying, I have hope for the future. That does not sound like a suicide note to me. Humphrey reported that Smith was going to testify for Byrd at his 1984 trial, but he couldn't do it when Tom confessed that he had an affair with Lorna Anderson.

He didn't believe Tom killed Sandra, but believed that Lorna could have pressured Sandy into killing herself. I mean, that's possible. Possible to pressure somebody into that. Yeah, I'm not saying it's impossible. Unlikely. Yeah, I think it's unlikely. The Smith testified at the motion hearing that they told Agent Humphrey they both thought Sandra took her own life initially. Humphrey did not put this in his report though.

He testified that suicide was considered until the pathologist and investigators reached a consensus that suicide wasn't possible. At the grand jury proceeding in February of 1985, Pastor Smith testified about the conversation about insurance. He said he wasn't sure if Tom was present. But at the motion hearing, he said Tom was present. So that's odd. It is odd. Because you're testifying about the exact same thing. And to the grand jury, you say, I'm not sure if he was there. But then at this motion hearing, you're saying he definitely was there. At the motion for a new trial, Pat Boison testified that when Carolyn called her to tell her about Sandy's death,

Carolyn said that Sandra mentioned taking her life by car accident, and she mentioned she would do it on a deserted road, six miles outside Emporia, which is where she ultimately died. Carolyn Smith denied saying this. So the Boysons believed Sandra took her life, but had never heard her say anything about it directly to them. So I,

you know, to me it's a little bit confusing. and Gibbs, but what I make of it is these people, they believed that Sandra took her life. But why did they believe that? Apparently, they had no evidence. It sounded as though it was more about the fact that they didn't believe Tom could have had a hand in it. So therefore, it must have been either an accident or she purposefully drove off the cliff. Part of that, I understand. You know, if you're really, really good friends with somebody, if somebody came to me and said, you know what, Gibby did this and it was pretty heinous. Right. I would say there's no way

Gibby did that. Now, do I know for sure you didn't do it? No. What am I basing it on? Our years of friendship, me knowing you the way that I do. Right. Does it mean you're not capable of doing some really, really bad things? Absolutely not. But I would say I don't think you would do that or I don't think you could do that just based off of what I know about you. The court accepted a letter to the defense from Pastor Jeffrey Stevens, but noted the letter qualified as unsworn testimony. Pastor Stevens wrote that Pastor Smith talked to him confidentially after returning from Tom's first trial for solicitation, Stephen said Smith was angry at Tom and seemed convinced that Sandy Bird's death was suicide and that Tom's alleged affair sent her over the brink.

According to Stevens, Smith said Sandra called him several times to talk about her marriage. During one call, she said her life was in so much turmoil, she didn't see the point of living. And in their last call, she reportedly said she can't. considered suicide. So the court accepted this letter, but they considered it as unsworn testimony. So I'm wondering Gibbs how much stock they would actually put into it. I don't think he can put too much stock into it. But again, you never know how will be perceived by them. In his appeal, Byrd argued that if Agent Humphrey put in his report that he interviewed to Smith. He may have done further investigation to bring up evidence of suicide.

On January 20th, 1989, Tom Byrd's appeal was rejected. The court responded, there is strong evidence that Byrd knew or could have, with reasonable diligence, discovered Carolyn Smith and the Boisen's testimony. He knew from Pastor Smith's remarks to Agent Humphrey and at the grand jury proceeding that Sandra had mentioned suicide. Both Pastor Smith and Carolyn Smith testified Bird was present when Sandra made the remarks. Agent Humphrey's report clearly states Bird was present when Sandra made her comment about suicide.

If Byrd found this to be false, he had the opportunity to investigate the report further and determined why the Smiths believed him to be in the room. The court found his argument without merit and affirmed the judgment. So he lost that battle. Then in 1990, Tom went to trial for the first degree murder of Marty Anderson. On January 5th, 1989, Lorna pleaded guilty to second degree murder in exchange for her testimony.

She received a 15-year-to-life sentence. She testified that she and Tom planned the murder together and that Tom was the shooter. So this is not going to bode well for Tom. No. But I have this problem. in every case where someone is given an incentive to testify against someone else. Right. Now, 15 years to life is no joke, but obviously it could have been much worse. Sure. That's, that's a reduced sentence. But to get that reduced sentence, you have to testify. And what do you have to

testify about, Gibbs? Well, it has to be something beneficial to the prosecution because they're the ones that are offering you the incentive. It doesn't mean it's a lie. All it means to me is that I have to scrutinize it a little bit more. Sure you do. Then I would if there was someone who had you know, kind of no bias or no reason to say something other than the truth because it doesn't benefit them to. I mean, at this moment when this type of thing occurs, everybody's looking out for themselves. Yeah. And I think that is true in almost every situation, right? You have more than one individual kind of involved in a crime. When everybody's caught, everyone is looking out for Numero Uno. Yeah. And they will throw their grandma under the bus if it helps them

when it comes to sentencing. Sure. Normally the first one that makes the deal comes out clean or cleaner. Tom testified that it wasn't possible for him to be the shooter because he was in Topeka, shopping for a van, reading at the mall, visiting friends, and attending a religious conference. And he had witnesses testify to support his story. Bird said that he was not romantically involved with Lorna when Marty was killed when asked about why he cashed $5,000 in checks on the same day. Lorna said she gave the money to Daniel Carter. Tom said he purchased a car. Okay, the first part seems pretty good, right? I wasn't even in the area. I've got witnesses that can back that up. This $5,000, though, sounds a little hinky to me. So the $5,000 that Lorna said she gave to someone to hire

hitman just happens to be the same amount of money that you use to purchase a car. Right. Does it get more convenient than that? Man, that's, uh, fate lining up for yourself. Yeah, or just an unbelievable coincidence on March 13th, 1990, Tom Bird was acquitted a first degree murder. No one else Gibbs has ever been charged in Marty's death. And that's kind of why I said, you know early on. Will we ever know who killed Marty? Maybe. But do we know right now? I would say no. Bird was denied parole in 2001 because he denied responsibility for the crime. According to the LA Times, he told the parole board, I said I didn't think it was a suicide. But I thought there was just as much evidence it was a suicide as there was that I murdered Sandy. And this is a strange case for me because

of the evidence. You know, I don't think Gibbs in any way the evidence was overwhelming. We mentioned it, right? It was circumstantial. You know, did it make him look good depending on who was telling the truth and nothing but the truth? No, it didn't make him look good at all. Did it prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he was involved in his wife's death? I think that's the big question that people ask about this case. On May 21st, 2004, Tom Bird was granted parole after serving 20 years in prison. His hearing was set for December, but the board approved his special request. After three public comment sections, Tom Bird was discharged from parole in July 2006.

Lorna was denied parole in 2000 and then was eventually released on parole in 2007 on February 17, 2014. Lorna Anderson was discharged from parole altogether. And if you read about this case Gibbs, you'll notice that Lorna's name changes and the different sources that, you know, you used to research it. She remarried to a man named Randy Eldridge in June,

1985. They divorced in 1990. Then she took her maiden name Slater. She married a man named Terry Moore while in prison. So a few name changes. Yeah, a number of them. After she was released from prison, Lorna worked with women for justice and mercy,

a Methodist church ministry. She continued working in church and became vice president of a Methodist church in Hutchinson. So Gibbs, as we wrap this thing up, you know, the case of Reverend Thomas Burke. It got a lot of media attention, right?

It became a little bit sensational for a number of reasons. I think first and foremost because the guy was a reverend. And he was having an affair accused of plotting to kill his wife. I mean, this is kind of a plot out of like a B movie that you watch because you can't find anything else on. So he stick with it. He stick with it because there's nothing else better to watch. But it seems outlandish, right? Tom Bird insists he didn't kill Sandy Bird and that he was a victim of circumstantial.

evidence. And I mentioned it up front. This is not one of those cases that, you know, I think a lot of people look at and say, yep, this thing was all buttoned up. There's no doubt he did it. I think there is room for some doubt here. Definitely some gray area. You know, a lot of times, you know, do people look at someone's actions and say, man, this guy was doing things that he shouldn't have been doing? Well, that part is not. debatable, right? He shouldn't have been having an affair. And then I think when you look at it and say, okay, he, he's a religious person, a reverend, a pastor who's having an affair. It makes it worse in people's eyes. And then you have people coming out and saying he was involved in the hiring of a hitman

to kill Lorna's husband. The person he's having an affair with, she came out and said he was the actual trigger man. So naturally, you put all those things together and things don't look good when his wife in a very strange way dies. The other thing that I think is tough about this case is you have for a solved case so many questions that have not been answered. And I think that's the problem with convictions on pretty much entirely circumstantial evidence. How did Tom kill Sandra? We don't know. No.

Who killed Marty Anderson? We still don't know. Still unsolved. So then I'm sure there are people that would ask the question, is it possible that an unknown killer remains free? Whether it's someone who killed both of these individuals, Sandra and Marty, two different people who killed Sandra and Marty. And there's going to be a lot of people that think, no. Tom was involved in both of it. Yeah, you could go that direction for sure.

Oh, absolutely. And then obviously another jury convicted him a first degree murder of his wife. So hard to argue with juries because we're not there. We don't get to see everything, hear everything. But again, I will say it's not as quite, it's not quite as buttoned up as many of the cases that we do. You don't have that DNA moment or you don't have that eyewitness or. a murder weapon with prints on it. Yeah, you really don't have any of that at all. What you have is a ton of things that make this guy look like, number one, a bad guy.

Sure. But then number two, guilty of the crimes that he was said to have committed. But that's it for our case on the Reverend Thomas Bird. We got some voicemails, Gibbs. You want to check those out? Yeah, let's hear them. Well, hello, guys. This is Georgina. O.T. I send an email. My son also calls for my birthday for a birthday shout-out. I'm actually all done with everything, so I'm going to criminology now, but for some reason, it sent me back to Eric Smith,

and that's about an hour and a half away from where I live, which is Rochester, New York. And I guess I can give you guys an update, February of this year, which is 2020. too. He was released and is engaged now. Sister was on the news talking about. She really thinks that her brother has changed and all that stuff.

I'm actually not sure, but we'll see from now. So, yeah, that was my update for you guys. And thank you again for everything that you guys done and keep your head on your quibble and keep your own time to get. All right. Thanks to Georgina. I did see that Gibbs a couple of months ago when it came out. You know, that Eric Smith story, it's always stuck with me.

I mean, you know, just go back and look at the pictures of him when he was a kid. Oh, for sure. He spent quite a number of years in prison. He was so young that is he going to change? You would think the likelihood is greater because he was so young when he committed the crimes. We know that people matured. as they grow older. To me, it's different than, you know,

a 35-year-old guy who murder someone and they let him out and you find out that he went on to murder again. Got already set in his ways. Yeah. Yeah. But we'll, but like she said,

we'll have to see. Yeah, because there are no guarantees. No. I got two words for you guys. Albert Fish, you have to do Albert Fish. I've been waiting and waiting and waiting for it.

Please, please, please. Love you guys. Yeah, it's funny. about Albert Fish, he was probably one of the first names I wrote down five years ago or whenever when we made the list. Sure was. I don't actually know why we haven't done him yet, but I'm sure we will.

And I need to do it sooner than later. All right, guys, I just got done listening to the second part of the Dubrow case. And I just, I'm worried, I'm worried about you guys. I'm worried there's too many, there's too many just random deaths that occur. and everything with people connected to that case and by you you guys putting that out there and everything I'm worried that you guys might be next and I'm also kind of worried that all of the anybody who listened to that might be on some type of a hit list so thanks a lot guys anyway keep it up love to go bye well I did get a very weird random voicemail did you so

well it was the list was so extensive it really was you know and I know obviously he's joking around saying anybody that listened to it is now connected. But it was, you know, the crimes were bizarre. Dutro was bizarre. But that was really strange to me that so many people died. Now, I'm not saying that all of them were hit jobs or anything like that, but it's kind of hard not to think that somebody wasn't out to get some of those people, especially the people that were set to testify. Yeah. Too many people. Yeah, too many. to me seems like to be a coincidence. We had no mailbag this week.

So that's it, man. What am I going to eat this week then? Oh, you have to buy your own stuff. What? Buy your own Twizzlers, buy your own candy. All right. All right. That's it for another episode of true crime all the time.

So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.