True Crime All The Time - Thomas Lee Bean

Episode Date: July 31, 2023

In April 1963, former Olympic skier Sonja McCaskie was strangled and dismembered by 18-year-old high school student Thomas Lee Bean, who had a history of troubled behavior. Thomas’s attorneys presented an insanity defense, but there was evidence that he put thought and planning into the murder.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss Thomas Lee Bean and the murder of Sonja McCaskie. The strategy that Thomas's attorney decided on was odd. He didn't dispute the fact that his client killed Sonja. He didn't ask for a change of venue or even object to the introduction of evidence at trial. Would the strategy work?You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 343 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in True Crime. Mike Gibson. How are you? Hey man, I'm doing good. How about you? I'm doing pretty well. Yeah?

Yeah. Having a great week. The only bad thing for me is that my wife has started a countdown for our youngest heading off to college. Oh yeah. And we're under three weeks now. Uh-oh. And so, yeah, there's been, uh, my wife's been crying a little bit.

But it's getting sad. Yeah. It's not sad for me right now. It'll be really sad on the day. But my wife starts weeks in advance. She's crying for two reasons. Your daughter leaving. Should be alone with me.

Be alone with you. Yep. I knew that was coming. Hey, let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. We had Madison Campbell. Hey, Madison. Karen Drake. Thank you, Drake.

Mandy Doubler. What's going on, Doubler? Kimberly Lahorn. Oh, hey, Kimberly. It took me a while to get that one out. It did. Kaleen, Perry. Thank you, Kaeline.

Haley Cohen. What's going on, Colin? Leanne Robinson. Hey, Leanne. Holly Bristley. What's up, Holly? Suzanne Jackson. There's Suzanne.

Elaine Pippard. Pappard. That's what I'm going with. Okay. Haley. Hey, Haley. Judy Kinchlow. What's going on, Judy?

Teresa Stanley. Appreciate that, Teresa. Jill Suggers. Hey, there's sugars. Alice Kehoe. Well, what's up? Keyhole. Charles Boyer.

Hey, Charles. And Cassie, Mycheck. That's what I'm going with. Thank you, Cassie. And last but not least, Beth Millar. Yay, Beth. Yeah, so thanks for all the new support. Then we go back into the vault.

This week, we selected Nancy Zeker. There is Nancy. Yeah, we appreciate Nancy and all the people who continue to support the show. We do. A month after month. We had a couple of PayPal donations. One was from Matthews Cats. Hey, Matthews.

Frankenberry, Countess Chocula, and Booberry, Jr. Oh, delicious. flavors if they were the cereals. Not cats. But apparently, you know, he loves the show. The cats love the show. And we had a very large donation from Robert Vindiddy. Oh, Vindidi.

Or Diddy. Vindidi. Van Didi. One of the two. Yeah, we appreciate all of that. And you know what? I appreciate each and every person listening because without them, who would listen? That makes a lot of sense.

I know. So I'm just letting everybody know we really appreciate this. No, we do. Week in and week out. We do. Absolutely. We have an episode out right now on Unsolved where we're talking about the murder of Anne Heron headed over to the UK.

And there's a lot of mystery behind this one. Maybe I can use my three UK languages. Accents. Accents. Languages. Are they different languages or just different accents? All right, buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode?

of true crime all the time. I'm ready. We're talking about a guy named Thomas Lee Bean. And we're going back away. We're going back to the early 60s. In April, 1963, Olympic skier,

Sonia McCaskey, was strangled and dismembered by 18-year-old high school student, Thomas Lee Bean. He had a history of troubled behavior. When he came to the trial, which will obviously dive into, his attorneys presented an insanity defense, but there was quite a bit of evidence that he put some thought and planning into the murder.

Sonia Yvonne McCaskey was born in Elgin, Skowlin on February 19, 1939. Her parents were Henry and Dorothy McCaskey. Henry died soon after Sonia was born. She had two siblings named Jennifer and Guy. Dorothy moved the family to the U.S. in 1946. The family lived in Long Beach, California, but they were very interested in skiing.

So they moved to Tahoe City, California. Sonia took up skiing quickly. She participated in the girls' ski team at her high school and at Sierra College. Did you snow ski? I have never done it. Never. Never even tried.

I tried water skiing one time, almost pulled my arms out of the socket. Yeah. I assume if I tried. tried to snow ski, I would break something. So I just don't. Maybe try snowboarding. No, I would probably hit a tree and kill myself.

So basically you're just going to stay away from all that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It seems very dangerous to me. I know a lot of people do it. It's probably not dangerous. I just, I'm not great at rollerblading, things like that.

Yeah. So I don't think it was for me. But, you know, here's the thing that kind of jumped out of me. She was living in an area. And this was, this is way back, right? 60 plus years ago where they actually had a high school girls ski team. Yeah. You're not going to find that here.

I don't know where you're going to go skiing here. No, you have to live in a very, you know, particular part of the country, part of the world. But I remember, you know, growing up, they didn't even have things like, at least where I went to school, lacrosse. hockey, some of these sports that are kind of ubiquitous today. They didn't have that. It was baseball, basketball, football, track. Yeah, I remember they eventually introduced soccer. That's how old I am.

Yeah. Right after it was invented? Right after it was. Yes. Sonia wrote to the ski club of Great Britain asking for a chance to join the 1960 winner Olympics team. The Olympics were held at the Palisades, Tahoe. ski resort near Tahoe City. So interesting, because that's where they live, when the British team

arrived for training, Sonia tried out and earned a spot in the slalom race. She finished last in the race during her event. The next winter, she joined the British national ski team and competed throughout Europe. So obviously she was very talented. Sure. It's not easy to snow ski. I mean, sure, I was six years old, seven years old when I did my first black diamond black diamond is that what they call it yeah you know here's the thing is it easy to snowsky or or is it hard or is it hard to be good because you could most people could do a lot of things sure they can but to do it well and particularly to do it at a very high level or you know there's a big gap they could have some good skills yeah sonya attended san jose state college in san jose california in the

fall of 1961 in the spring of 1962. At one point, she was married to a man named Jeffrey Schmidt, but they got divorced around 1960. Her find a grave profile says that she had a child named William who was born in 1957, but most sources don't, you know, mention him at all. Sonia gave birth to a son named Kim in 1962. He was only 10 months old when Sonia died. At the of her death, she was living in a duplex in Reno, Nevada. She worked full time as a secretary for the Blue Ribbon Meat Company in Sparks, Nevada. She worked part-time as a ski instructor at the Slide Mountain Ski Resort. Sonia had reportedly applied for a spot on the next British Olympic team. So, you know, we're painting a picture of, you know, her life, no doubt, a very

accomplished skier. But also... What I'm taking away is this is someone who is not giving up on her dream, you know, wants to be not just an Olympian because I think she had already done that, but wants to do well. Yeah, no, I think she's got a dream and a plan and she's sticking to it. She's going to make that dream happen. Sonia filed a paternity suit against David Conrad, a 24-year-old grad assistant and part-time English instructor at the University of Nevada. Sonia was seeking medical expenses and what was deemed reasonable child support, but Conrad denied having any relation to Kim. Court records indicate that Conrad

wrote to Sonia after he was married and after Kim was born. He wrote in one letter that Sonia was consorting with another individual. When Kim would have been conceived, this was according to the Reno Gazette Journal. Gorting. It's a different way to say that she was having sex with somebody else. Yeah. I think that's what he meant. Yeah.

I think most of the listeners got that from the context. But, you know, hey, put it out there. So you can see what this guy is trying to do, right? He's saying, this is not my child. I don't want to, you know, take responsibility because she's out or was out with at least one other individual. The case was heard by a judge in the week before Sonia was killed. And she took a polygraph for the paternity suit on April 3rd, 1963. Sonia had plans to go out with a friend that weekend. She last spoke to her friend, Beverly

Frickstad, around 9.30 p.m. on April 4th, Sonia's neighbors reported that she arrived at her duplex at 4.30 p.m. that day. But no one saw her after that. At 11.30 p.m., her boss, George Horgan, delivered her paycheck from the ski resort. When no one answered, he slipped the check under the door. This check was later found in a different spot, which indicated it was picked up either by Sonia or by her killer. On the evening of Friday, April 5th, 1963, Sonia's babysitter, Billy Nielsen called the police to report that she was worried because Sonia failed to pick up her son that day. Mrs. Nielsen had been taking care of the baby for about five weeks because of Sonia's busy work schedule. Sonia normally came to see him during her lunch breaks or after work.

She always picked him up on Fridays and kept him with her until Saturday morning. She worked weekends at the ski resort. So a pretty busy mom. Yeah, I'd have to agree with you. I mean, the way that it was reported really makes it sound as though this babysitter was keeping the baby full time throughout the week. At 10.20 p.m., a police officer entered through the unlocked door and found Sonia's body, which had been mutilated. The officer found her heart lying two feet from the door. Her left foot was found wrapped in a blanket in the center of the room. Sonia's decapitated body was stuffed into a chest. Her head was found under her body, wrapped in under garments and a lace tablecloth. That's a shocking find. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

You know, I think we've talked about it before, but, you know, if you get a call on the radio as a, as a police officer to check on someone, you obviously don't go up to the door expecting to find a dismembered body, right, when you push it open. So it has to be shocking. What thing would be one of the last things you would expect? Officers initially theorized that the killer knew her because there was no evidence of forced entry. And I get where that thought comes from. But, you know, I'm always a little leery about that because, you know, if somebody knocks on your door, rings your doorbell, you open the door, and they barge in.

Is it really going to look like forced entry? I mean, the door is not going to be pried open. There's a good chance it won't look like it. Yeah, or let's say someone was following you home to your apartment. And right as you unlocked your door, they grabbed you and pushed you inside.

Okay. It may not look like forced entry. But I understand they got to start with at least a theory. Sure. And obviously, Conrad came under suspicion, right? The timing doesn't look good for him because they're about ready to have this trial to establish paternity. But he was cleared early on April 6th after taking a polygraph, you know, probably pretty big on polygraphs in the early 1960s.

Yeah. We've already talked about two of them. And they used to put so much more weight behind. Oh, they did. So he passes this polygraph and police are probably like, well, can't be him. You know, you see that in old movies. Some people are really good at passing polygraphs. I think it's been proven that it can be done, that they're just unreliable. In Chico, California, Sonia's ex-husband, Jeff Schmidt, checked in at the local police headquarters when he learned about the murder. Schmidt said that he and Sonia were divorced three years earlier and that he hadn't seen

her for a year and a half. Investigators methodically went about interviewing Sonia's male acquaintance. and coworkers. By April 8th, five of her friends took lie detector tests and passed. They're just handing out

lie detector tests to everyone. Well, it's because it puts so much weight behind it, so they were just trying to eliminate people based on those results, right? Yeah, no,

I think you're right back then. Reno Identification Bureau Captain Dallas Severs told the Reno Gazette Journal that the Bureau had to compare every fingerprint that was not Sonia's to 46 other people who had been questioned.

You know, and this is an interesting aspect of true crime. You know, when you look back through history before computers and before, you know, databases and things like that, you had people sitting and comparing fingerprints. And there's a lot of work. Took a lot of time. I wish we had to get that magnifying glass out. Yeah, I'm pretty sure you probably always had to have the magnifying glass. some kind of magnification tool.

Like a monicle? I don't know if anybody used a monicle. That day, the police revealed that a man answered Sonia's phone on the afternoon of April 5th. According to the Reno Gazette Journal, Mrs. Nielsen called Sonia's home between 5 and 5.30 p.m. A man answered hello. Mrs. Nielsen thought that she had the wrong number. So she hung up. She redialed the number and the same voice answered.

So she asked, is Sonia there? The man said, no, she isn't. He paused before asking, what number are you calling? Mrs. Nielsen told him the number, and the man gave her a different phone number and hung up. Detectives looked into that phone number and learned that residents had not received a mistaken phone call. Seems a little bizarre. Yeah, very bizarre. I mean, I don't know what you're making of it if you're the police other than most likely,

whoever answered this phone was the person who killed Sonia. But then I think it raises a lot of questions, right? Number one, why are you answering the phone? You don't have to answer it. You could just let it ring. And then number two, you answered it not once, but twice. And then the second time, you gave the person another number. Why?

I mean, it's a head scratcher, I think, if you're the police. For sure. I'm scratching my head right now thinking about it. You are. I'm watching you. DA William Raggio told news outlets, yet we can't discount this incident. Possibly whoever killed her may have been interrupted in the dismemberment. We believe this because an attempt had been made to cut off her right leg.

So we kind of talked about what was a very grisly scene. And then, you know, police come out and say that it appears as though the killer didn't get a chance to finish. the dismemberment for whatever reason. Maybe got to interrupt it, maybe couldn't handle it anymore. Who knows? The police also revealed to the press that Sonia had what they called an abnormal, complex personnel. Investigators found her diary written in 1961 and part of 1962.

The entries showed that Sonia contemplated self-destruction. She had also written what they called some. morbid poems. And this was very different from the characterization by most people of Sonia as a shy and quiet girl. Chief of police, Elmer Briscoe, and the DA read two of Sonia's poems. These poems were even published by the Reno Gazette Journal. On July 2nd, 1960, she wrote, Happiness, Love, if held too close, and struggled for too violently. it seems to wither and slowly die. And in the death procedure,

agonies by score are undergone to see before one's eyes, this thing of beauty, tenderness, and love be so utterly and completely destroyed. And there was a lot of other ones, right, that are very similar, talk about death and this and that. It just seems so strange

that they're reading out these poems from her personal diary. Yeah, it does, but a, I'm assuming that there's a plan behind it. Well, I was trying to figure out what the purpose would be. This is not an unknown person. It's not a Jane Doe. You're not trying to identify her.

So you're not saying, hey, if you recognize this type of writing or. So I couldn't figure out what the reason for that would be. Sonia's friend Beverly Frickstead, the last person to speak to her, told the Reno Gazette Journal, don't you let them make Sonia out to be anything but a normal person with normal problems because she was a lovely girl. She was a moody girl. She was an intellectual. One of her problems was that she was continually striving but didn't seem to have a goal. She was always going to classes, but didn't seem to have any professional goal in mind. So maybe this is different from the skiing where it did seem like she had a, you know,

a very concrete goal. This is more about her life outside of skiing, I think she's talking about. Yeah, I believe she is. But, you know, people write poems or they write things in their diaries that, you know, I think if they were read, you know, when you sit down and you try to interpret it, what does it mean? Well, maybe it doesn't mean anything. Just somebody trying to express their whatever emotion they got going on that day.

Yeah. I mean, if you looked at my journal, your head would spin. Yeah. Yeah. I'd hate to have to testify to it later, too. Yeah, that could be a problem. It could be very incriminating. Frickstad said that the only thing bothering Sonia during their phone call was that she had painted her living room yellow and she thought it was too Goddy. So, I mean, I think that tells you something. She wasn't talking about a stalker or someone she thought. maybe was following her. She didn't seem to convey any worries at all other than the choice of her paint color,

which is something my wife struggles with all the time. Paint color? As soon as she paints something, she's like, I don't know if I picked the right color. Got it all by one shade. I was like, I think you should just go with it because who wants to repaint this whole thing? She probably already did like five sample colors on the wall. But you know, they don't have, they get the little sticks, the stick sheets now. Oh.

They just stick to the wall instead of painting little swabs. Yeah. You haven't painted anything in quite a while, haven't. The Reno Gazette Journal reported that Sonia's friends and family were upset by what they called the probing into her life during the investigation and said that her reputation was unjustly put on trial. And it sounds like I think they were right about some of that. I mean, here's a victim, a murder victim. Yeah. And the police are coming out and, you know, reading her diary entries and saying that she had a, what they say, an abnormal personality or complex or whatever it was. On April 10th, the authorities announced that Sonia's cause of death was strangulation.

According to the pathologist report, her hyoid bone was fractured and she had small hemorrhages around her neck and eyes. Sonia was strangled with a hemp rope with closed lines tied at either end. Her time of death was estimated to be between 5 a.m. and 12 p.m. on April 5th. But there really was no conclusive opinion. And that is about seven hours. It's pretty broad. It is pretty broad. Investigators were still analyzing evidence found at Sonia's home. One piece of evidence was a bloody footprint belonging to a man.

The police were also looking into why Sonia's vehicle had a dented right rear wheel. Finally, investigators were still waiting on a pathologist report that would indicate whether or not Sonia was sexually assaulted. And obviously, we're talking about the early 60s here. So a little more limited. Sure. And what they could do, obviously there's no DNA or anything like that. At a press conference on April 12th, the DA said,

robbery may have been the motive because some valuable items were missing from Sonia's apartment. He also said that all 15 employees at the Sparks Meat Company had been cleared, including one man whose fingerprint was found on a vodka bottle in Sonia's home. They even said that female suspects had also been questioned and cleared. So they're oh for nothing. Yeah, up to this point. But then the very next day on April 13, 18-year-old high school student Thomas Lee Bean was arrested for pawning Sonia's stolen camera. The sale was made back on the sixth.

Investigator John Peevers found the camera on April 11th when he was checking pawn chops for items stolen from Sonia's apartment. The signature from the seller was difficult to read, but officers traced it back to Thomas. Really pretty smart, you know, if you think about it, and I don't know that, that might not happen today the exact same way yeah i mean good for police effort really bad for the suspect right got lazy and decided he wanted to cash in on something that he stole from the from the house i think the difference between back then and today is his options would have been pretty limited back then you know you've got pawn shops okay get some cash that way today heck you you

you could sell it on eBay. You know, there's a all kinds of different electronic avenues probably that where you could sell that where you could sell, you know, those types of items. But still, it doesn't mean it won't be traced back to you. Two officers asked Thomas to go with them to answer questions about the camera. They cited a technicality about minor selling items to pawn shops. Thomas agreed to give his fingerprints and footprints. but he got nervous when his footprint was taken.

He said he knew he was being questioned for the McCaskey murder, even though no one had brought it up. Okay. So they were, they were being pretty sly. There they were. Saying, hey,

we just seemed to talk to you about the sale. It shouldn't have happened. You were a minor, whatever, blah, blah, blah. But for him to bring up the McCaskey murder in police to say that they didn't even,

broach the subject yet. Yeah. That's not a good sign. As he was being escorted to the interrogation room, he ran out the front door, 15 to 20 officers and the DA chased him. He was caught two blocks away. It was said that officers fired five warning shots to try to stop him. Five. Yeah. Yeah. We really mean it now. This is our fifth time. You better stop. Can you imagine a police officer, popping off five rounds as a warning. I don't think they do that anymore. Not up here. They don't.

Where do you think they do it? I don't know. They don't do it up here. When he was captured, Thomas asked an officer, who was shooting at me? I wish they would have killed me. So, you know, granted, this is like an 18 year old kid, right? Man, but kid, you know, we talk about that all the time. he's really kind of given himself away with a lot of the things that he's saying, number one,

bringing up the murder when nobody's even asked him about it. After he was arrested, Thomas confessed that he strangled Sonia with a piece of twine, raped her, and then dismembered her body. Thomas told the police that he had never met Sonia. She was what he called a chance victim. Don't like the way that sounds. Well, it sounds cold and callous because it is. It's also very scary, you know, to think that, you know, someone is just out looking for a

victim, you know, that idea that a bad person is just walking around. And when they happen to see you, you're now in their crosshairs. That's, that's a very scary thought. Thomas admitted that he went inside Sonia's apartment with a 10-inch knife and a of court, he was prowling the streets around midnight on April 5th. He said he was looking for women's underwear, hanging on clotheslines because he had a habit of stealing it. He strangled Sonia as she slept. He said she woke up during the attack and she begged him not to kill her because she said she had to take care of her baby. So that's kind of heartbreaking stuff.

It was really heartbreaking. Yeah, I can't even imagine the fear that she was experiencing at that moment. Thomas said he left Sonia's apartment around five to 5.30 a.m. Before he left, he stocked three kitchen knives in her body. Thomas had entered the apartment barefoot through a back door, which is why he left behind the footprint. Captain Dallas Severs from the identification bureau matched Thomas's footprint with the one from the crime scene. So we're not talking about a shoe print. We are talking about. We are talking about. about an actual footprint. Normally when you hear or say footprint,

it's really a shoe print. Sure. Yeah. Because most people don't walk around barefoot. But maybe he thought, okay, I won't make as much noise. You know,

this is also a time period, as we talked about before, where people didn't, a lot of people didn't lock their doors. So, you know, this 18 year old kid enters through a back door, not locked.

Why? People were just trusting. Of course. Kind of missed those days. Well, I think it's nice to romanticize about those days and to think that we could live in a world where that's possible. But I don't think it ever really was possible because we've done so many stories. Yeah. It's true. You've always had predators. You've always had people intent on doing bad things. I'm not sure that we really should have ever left our. doors unlocked. I don't know what the reason for it was. I mean, if you need a cup of sugar neighbor, just knock on the door. Come on in. Don't just walk on in. Yeah, just walk on in. But you know, that that idyllic notion of Mayberry is great until something shatters it. And there's a story from, you know, places all around the country where that notion was shattered. And here's another one of those. questioning the police took Thomas to his home and found a jacket and rope. He showed them where he took Sonia's car on a joyride. Inside Thomas's vehicle, the police found a radio, believed to have been

stolen from her apartment, as well as two loaded gun. After Thomas was arrested, his father spoke with the Reno Gazette Journal about his childhood. Thomas Lee Bean was born in Reno, Nevada in 1944. He lived with his father, Elza, Roy Bean, and his brother, his parents were divorced, and his mother was reportedly living in California. Roy told the Reno Gazette Journal that he was a preacher on the East Coast, but he didn't say why he stopped preaching. He said that Thomas loved animals, enjoyed working with cars, and enjoyed painting. He described Thomas as an average boy with average interests, whom girls liked to date, because they felt he was one boy they could go out. He was a little boy that. He could go out with who didn't try to make advances or get fresh.

It was the safe date. That's what it sounds like. Yeah. That's what his dad thought. But in June, 1961, Thomas was arrested in Salt Lake City after he attempted to strangle a girl. He was held for 15 days in a juvenile home and was questioned by a psychiatrist and psychologist. A probation officer said, Tom was disturbed and that he had to be watched constantly. constantly because of his disturbed repressed personality.

This according to the Reno Gazette Journal. So, you know, his dad said he's the safe date. Obviously, he wasn't. If, you know, at 15, 16 years old, you're trying to strangle a girl. You're far from the safe date. Really far. But I think, you know, if you look at him just on the front end, seems safe. Well, if you're only looking from the standpoint of, well, he, he, he's,

not going to make advances or get fresh. Okay, maybe that was true. But it sounds like he was doing much worse than that. A psychiatric evaluation showed that Thomas was, quote, sick enough that we had one of our officers escort him to the Nevada border on the way to Las Vegas, according to the probation officer. Once he was in Las Vegas, Thomas asked to be sent to reformatory because in his own words, he needed help. He spent eight months at a reformatory in Elko where he was considered a model student. Eventually, Thomas returned to school. He worked in the cafeteria to pay for his lunches. He didn't participate in extracurricular activities. Roy said that everyone in their house was sick with a cold on the night of the murder. Thomas told them he was going to get cough drops and said he'd be back in a little while, but he didn't return until 7 a.m.

He came back with the radio and claimed he got it from a man whom he helped with his horses. Roy didn't think it was strange for Thomas to stay out like this because he loved horses. I like horses too. Well, I do too. It doesn't mean I'm going to stay out till seven in the morning. I just found it odd, right? Now, obviously, this is dad talking to the papers afterwards. And this can't be an easy thing to do as a parent.

when your child is a suspect or has been arrested at this point for murder. But I know a lot of people really love certain animals and they can spend a lot, a lot of time with them. I get all that. Yeah. But if you're saying, hey, I'm running out for cough drops. And then seven o'clock in the morning, you come back and say, well, I met a man who, you know, had some horses and I'm hanging out with these horses.

I don't know. It just doesn't seem to add up to me. Not to mention you're not that old. That's true. What, you really shouldn't be out till 7 a.m. Something in your brain should tell you it's time to get home. Well, and dad, for dad to say, I didn't think it was that strange for him to stay out till 7 in the morning. That seems off to me. Yeah. She just had a habit of always doing something. Ray said, they talked about the murder the next morning once it, made the news, he described it as a normal conversation. And they didn't speculate about who the killer was. Roy refused to answer when asked if Thomas acted normally that morning.

And my first thought is, how could you act normally after doing that? Unless you were a true psychopath. Which there are plenty of those in true crime. Yeah. And even outside of the world of true crime, but man, most people, I would think at the very least the next day, that's going to be weighing on you what you just did. Rory also said that Thomas went on a date with a girl after the murder. So he must not have been too broken up about what he did. It was like he just went back in the swing of things. Yeah, he told the paper that Thomas didn't get any psychiatric help in Elko because he didn't think the crime would have happened if he had received help. He admitted he had noticed abnormal symptoms and his son saying,

isn't there some time when you can sense there is something wrong? He needed help. I couldn't give him. As tough as a parent, not to be able to provide the type of help your kid needs. Yeah, if he's being truthful and saying, I saw the signs,

I saw something wasn't right, I didn't know what to do or I couldn't do anything, that would be very tough as a parent. On April 15th, Thomas was arraigned on a murder charge. His attorney, Harry Anderson, said that he would plead insanity. Thomas's father had retained Anderson for just a dollar. The judge from Knight Court? Harry Anderson, that's a good, that's a good pull.

No, I do not think it was the judge from Night Court. And I think it's just Night Court, not the Night Court. The Night Court. Anderson said he accepted the dollar retainer fee because he disliked capital punishment and thought Thomas needed someone with at least some experience in criminal law to represent him. You know, I think attorneys get a bad rap sometime. They catch a lot of flag and many times for good reason. But there are a lot of attorney like this guy who help people for little to know money out of sheer principle. You have to admire that.

You have to. Absolutely. I do a lot of things just out of pure principle. I call it the Pee-P method. Pure principle. Yes. Thomas's scheduled preliminary hearing was called off on April 25th. His attorney said there was no point in holding it because there is no question that there was a homicide and that the defendant committed it. So, I mean, I think you can see where we're going here. Sure. And where the attorney is going, he's not disputing the fact that his client killed son. It's all going to be about. his state of mind and, you know, an insanity defense and all that. Thomas was charged with murder on April 29th.

D.A. William Raggio told the court he received reports from two psychologists who examined Thomas. The reports indicated Thomas had no mental defects to constitute an insanity defense. And I'll be honest with you, man. I am always fascinated by these. mental health experts, some on the side of the prosecution and some on the side of the defense. We had that case a while back. Sure. Where both sides agreed, but rarely do they agree. And I think it's to be expected. Yeah. On May 1st, 1963, Thomas pleaded innocent to the murder charge against him. His attorney asked the court to pay for two psychiatrists to examine him. Harry Anderson wrote in an affidavit that he was convinced. Thomas was insane at the time of the offense. And I found that to be

very odd. What does it matter if his attorney's convinced? Does it mean he'll provide a better or a weaker defense? I don't know. I didn't understand that part at all. Jury selection for the murder trial started on June 24th, 1963. The defense didn't make a move to have the trial venue changed. testimony started on the 26th. In his opening statement, the DA described the murder in detail and told the jury they had little choice but to find Thomas guilty of first degree murder. Officer Mort Ammerman was the first witness. He testified about arriving at Sonia's house to determine why she hadn't picked up her son. He said he first knocked on the door.

When Sonia didn't answer, he tested the handle and found it unlocked. He partially opened the door and called out to her, but she didn't answer. He took out his flashlight. And he saw razor blades and stains on the floor. He decided to go inside to look around. And that's when he found Sonia's heart and foot on the floor. Some say, I tell you what. Well, I think if you're this officer later recounting, you're probably going to have a very good recall.

I don't think this is something that you're going to forget. For a very, very long time, if ever. According to the Reno Gazette Journal, Amherman testified, I saw a hope chest along the rear wall of the living room with what appeared to be a wax figurine or dummy in it. It had a waxy appearance. But when he touched it, he realized it was a human body. I don't know, man.

I mean, I'm getting a little chill. Yeah. Just thinking about what this guy went through that day. color photos of Sonia's dismembered remains were shown at trial. The defense didn't even make any objections. Some said that Thomas grinned occasionally as the photographs were introduced. Okay. If that's true.

Number one, that's sick. Sure. Number two, it's stupid if you're a defendant. Yeah, I mean, I think it's like jury 101, you know, hey, before we go out, there, here's are the things you don't do, and here's the things that you can do. And I think maybe he might have missed that point. A high on the list should have been, hey, don't laugh or grin when they show pictures of this woman's dismembered body.

Exactly. Dr. VA Salvadorini testified that Sonia's cause of death was strangulation. A bruise found near her lip occurred shortly before her death. but all of the stab wounds and cuts were inflicted after death. Captain Dallas Severs and Lieutenant Frank Hart presented 71 items of evidence, including the chest where Sonia's torso and head were found. The murder weapon, a 24-inch court with clothespins attached, was found in a wicker basket in the closet hidden under a black shirt.

Severs demonstrated 20 points of similarity between Thomas's foot. footprint and the bloody footprint found on the floor of Sonia's apartment. That's a lot of similarities. It's going to be hard to do. Is it? I don't know what the, the right number is. I think it'd be hard to debate that.

Like you're some kind of footprint, uh, expert, 20's a lot. 20 is a lot. Is it? I don't know. Could you have 40, 50, 60? Maybe. I think 20's a lot. Okay.

I'm going to go with you because I don't know what it was like to manually compare footprints. in the early 1960s. I know you were there, you lived it, so I'm going to have to go with your knowledge. Severs testified that inside Thomas's home, investigators found black underwear and a pair of gloves.

In the pockets of a coat, Thomas said he was wearing on the night of the murder. They also found a length of twine that Thomas said was used to make the murder weapon. So, I mean, I think right off the bat, all of this shows you. We're not talking about a mastermind, right, a seasoned murderer.

This is an 18-year-old who seems as though he's winging it. Yeah. Just flying by the seat of his pants. I mean, he doesn't even throw away the murder weapon, tucks it under a shirt in the hamper, takes underwear, you know, with him, and then later says, that was the jacket I was wearing. I mean,

just, I don't know. It really, like you said, flying by the seat of his pants, he just seems like he was a kid. I keep saying kid. I know he's 18 years old,

but an 18 year old just out when he shouldn't have been. Yeah. And then for whatever reason, it clicked in his mind. Now I'm going to do this. Yeah. It sounds to me like it started with stealing women's underwear from clothes lines and then progressed.

to where he finally got, I don't want to say nerve, because that's not the right word. He had this urge, obviously, and he decided to act on it. He had the opportunity. FBI document specialist Clarence Bone testified that the signatures on the Pondshop record and those on Thomas's police identification sheet were written by the same person. FBI agent Cornelius McRite testified that the front of Thomas's genes showed traces of human blood. He testified that Sonia had group A blood. That's what they called it. And the same type was found on several pieces of evidence. The murder weapon had the same blood type. FBI agent Paul Stombaugh

testified that the cord used to strangle Sonia could have been cut from a piece of twine taken from Thomas's bedroom. He found head hairs attached to the twine and compared them to Sonia's hair. It was a match. Now, you know how I feel about. matching hairs back then. But you're hearing all this evidence. It's a mountain of evidence. It is.

Against this guy. But he's already admitted that he committed to murder. Now he pleaded innocent or what today we would say not guilty, but or whatever. His attorneys even came out and said, hey, this is not a who done it. My client did it. Exactly.

And all this evidence is just kind of backing it up. The transcript of Thomas. confession was read in court on July 1st. The following quotes come from the Reno Gazette Journal. Thomas said in his confession that Sonia woke up while he strangled her. She said, don't do it now. I have a baby to support. He told detectives, you ask the motive. I have none. It's been a childhood dream to rape a girl. And I don't know why. I've tried to kick it. Bizar thing to say. I think he's being truthful. Yeah.

But you're right. It's bizarre, but it's also scary. You know, to hear someone say, from the time that I was a child, I have thought about rape. That is a very scary thing to hear. I don't even thought about it. It was a dream. Yeah. Childhood dream.

Yeah. Thomas said he had a violent temper, but he tried to relieve tension by stealing women's underwear. He said he wanted psychiatric help. when he was an inmate at the Nevada youth training center, but he didn't get in. And you know, you and I have done so many episodes about individuals who've committed not only murders, but also sexual crimes. And, you know, a lot of times we've talked about this. Where does it start? Voyeurism. Stealing women's undergarment, right?

That's a pretty common thing with a lot of the, the killers that we, we've talked about, who are motivated by the sexual component of it. Yeah, it just kind of escalates from there. Thomas said that he spent four hours dismembering Sonia's body. He told the police, I don't know why. I cut her up. I don't. I just shoved the knife in and started to cut.

That's all. I had no reason for doing it. Maybe raping her, but not killing her. It didn't bother me if I would have got caught. I don't know why. He doesn't seem to know really anything or have the reasoning for much of what he did that night. No, definitely doesn't have remorse. Thomas said he had no sensation while cutting her up.

He said it was like I was under the influence of dope. Four hours. Yeah, it seems like a long time. But, you know, look at the instruments that he was using. He's not using a skill saw like the mafia would have done. back in the day. To cut up a human being with like a kitchen knife. Yeah. That's going to take some time. Witness Patsy Willis testified about going on dates with Thomas after Sonia's murder. During one of the dates, Thomas talked about the murder. They stopped at his home because he wanted to pick up a

couple of guns. Thomas told her he lived in Sonia's neighborhood and wanted protection. The prosecution closed their case by presenting a deputy sheriff who testified that Thomas tried to end his life in the Washoe County Jail on May 23rd. He had cut one of his wrists. Now, I don't know what that testimony does to the jury. Does it tell them that he was sorry that he did what he did? Or does it tell them that he doesn't want to go through with what's about to come? I don't know what you make of it. I don't know how you would interpret that. Well, whichever way you went, I don't think it would be conclusive, right? It would just be your opinion.

Dr. David Wilson testified for the defense on July 2nd. Wilson testified that Thomas was acting out a daydream or fantasy when he killed Sonia. Thomas told him he believed if he carried out his fantasy, it would steer him away from the abnormal course he had been taking since he was a small boy. And again, that seems so strange. You know, whether he really meant it or not, it's almost as if he's saying, if I just do it, then I won't have this compulsion to act abnormally, as he called it, anymore. And maybe he thought that way. Maybe he didn't.

You know, I never know when some of these individuals are talking to mental health professionals. Are they being sincere? Are they being honest? or are they trying to steer the conversation in a certain direction because they know it's going to be in their best interest? Sure. I think they're probably pretty good at doing that part. Recently, Thomas had been stealing women's underwear from clotheslines for gratification. He saw a white slip on Sonia's clothesline, which led him to her home.

Something you don't see a lot anymore. I remember when I was young. Same here. All the people in their backyard, right? It had a clothes line. They hung their clothes out. We all have dryers and stuff now. Most people do.

Yeah, but, you know, it did save some money back in the day. I never really liked how they came back in, like, stiff. I don't think I would want my neighbors seeing my drawers, like just hanging up all the time. There's that, too. Especially the weird ones you wear. Yeah. That's what we're- The underdog, the Superman. And the weird shapes.

I don't want people seeing what I wear. Dr. Wilson said. said Thomas told him that his father's association with a woman drove him out of the house that night. Thomas spoke of assaults and threats on his father and being bullied by other kids. Dr. Wilson testified sooner or later this episode would have occurred. Somewhere in the evening, he went over the bounds of control, probably when he entered the house or sometime after. It's almost as if he was acting out apart. There was no emotion. The emotion was spent in rape. The rest was just vaguely there.

So you have this doctor, right, giving his opinion. One of the things that did jump out of me was Thomas saying that he was bullied by other kids. That is something that has not changed. No. We've talked about much more recent murderers who were bullied. Yeah. And told people they were bullied as kids. And it did.

And it changed them. Impactful. It was impactful to them not in a good way. Thomas told Dr. Wilson, I can't feel responsible because it wasn't me. Dr. Wilson said that Thomas didn't sell the camera because he needed money. He did it because he was guilty and he wanted to be caught. He described Thomas's mental illness as closer to schizophrenia than anything else.

Wilson testified that Thomas was not capable of knowing right from wrong at the time of the murder. But he was aware of what he was doing. He acknowledged the prosecution summary of his testimony at all times. He was aware of what he was doing and he could perceive what he was seeing and doing. He knew it was wrong in the sense that it was against the law. Okay. So now I'm confused. You know, one point, he says that Thomas didn't know right from wrong at the time of the murder.

But then right after that says he knew it was. wrong in the sense that it was against the law. Well, then he knew it was wrong. Yeah. It seemed like very strange testimony. Those two things were at odds. And they both came from Dr. Wilson. Dr. Walter Rappaport testified in rebuttal that Thomas had a plan to commit a rate when he left home on April 4th, and he was armed with a garot and a knife. Thomas told him he was going to use the garot to affect a rate. Thomas was not psychotic and he knew right from wrong. So not shocking, right, that we get two doctors giving differing opinions, one for the prosecution, one for the defense.

Thomas said that he got the idea to use the twine from TV and that he used the clothespins to protect his hands while pulling it tight. Thomas saw Sonia sports car that night, which attracted him to her home. he said he used a pair of women's underwear to keep his prints off the doorknop, which he learned from TV. Thanks, TV. I think with all the shows out there today, what you could possibly learn.

Oh, yeah. I mean, he's learning this stuff, right in the late 50s, early 60s. Right. I mean, now we've got,

what, 25, 30 different crime procedurals. Yeah. You know, kind of really going in depth about forensics and, and there's definitely a lot out there. But you know, I made the assumption earlier that the women's underwear that was found

in his coat, he took either from a clothes line or from Sonia's home. I think what he said was that he took it with him and used it to not leave fingerprints. Now, he had to have gotten that women's underwear from somewhere and maybe it was from one of his earlier forays out in the, you know, late at night. I mean, it could have dual purposes for him. Yes. Dr. Rapaport said he could not diagnose Thomas at that time. But if he did become mentally ill, it would be schizophrenia.

I found that extremely odd. You too. There's a lot of statements by these mental health professionals that are kind of stupefying me. To be honest with you, I can't diagnose it. But if he later becomes mentally ill, it would be schizophrenia. Okay. I can't diagnose you. No.

But later on, if you do become mentally ill, it will be X. Because that's what it's got to be. That makes no sense, right? It does not. Dr. Rapaport also revealed that Thomas developed a hatred for his mother. When she allowed him to be sent to the Nevada youth training center, he also hated his father. Now, I think there are kids who hate mother, father, one, or both. The percentage seems to be much, much higher with killers that we profile who have an issue with one or both of their parents.

And maybe it's because of trauma in their childhood or things that their parents did, but it comes up a lot. The last prosecution witness was Dr. Rudolph Toler, who testified that Thomas was not out of contact with reality and he knew right from wrong. Thomas told Dr. Toler that he felt like he had to do something that night or he was going to explode. According to Toler, Thomas found Sonia's door unlocked. He left and returned to her home. Both Dr. Rapaport and Dr. Toler testified that if Thomas had a girlfriend, he might not have killed Son. Only if he had a girlfriend that he might not have. That's a big might. You know, it's also, to me, testimony that you would never hear today.

No. I just can't imagine a mental health professional saying some of these things in, you know, 2023. They're not coming out and saying it, but I'm making the inference that they're saying this guy was so sexually frustrated that if he had a girlfriend or a partner or something, he wouldn't have committed this crime. because he would have been able to leave himself? I guess.

Yeah. But he already said he was doing that with the women's undergarments. So. But apparently that was not enough, according to them. According to them, yeah. During closing arguments, Harry Anderson asked the jury, according to the Reno Gazette Journal, how many people does he have to kill to show he is insane? No sane person does what this boy did.

Now, I get it. This defense attorney is trying to get, you know, his client out from under first degree murder, the death penalty, all of that. But this is an incorrect statement. There are all kinds of people who are not mentally ill who commit these types of heinous murders. He argued that if Thomas was sentenced to death, psychologists could not study him to help other boys with the same problem. Again, I just feel like, you know, you're really pulling stuff out of your wazoo at this point. I feel like if they would have spent more time on the front end of the defense, they could have did better for them than trying to do what they're doing here. Yeah, but to do that, you know, he would have had to have not come out very early on and said,

my client committed this murder. Right. Once you do that, what do you box yourself? Yeah, what are you going to argue? I mean, I think the defense attorney, from the start was just focused on insanity, you know, not going to get the death penalty. The DA implied that the death penalty was the right decision. And on July 8th, the jury found Thomas guilty of first degree murder and ordered him to be sentenced to death. When asked if he would appeal, Harry Anderson said he would unless Thomas told him differently or took it away from them.

When asked to explain, Anderson told the court that, Thomas attempted to end his life during the trial. On the 22nd of July, Thomas was formally sentenced to death by a judge. His execution was set for the week of September 23rd. So a month later, on August 21st, the Nevada Supreme Court granted a stay of execution pending the outcome of an appeal. Thomas's case was submitted in a brief to the state Supreme Court on March 6, 1964, his attorney listed six points for grounds for a new trial. The main argument was that the McNaughton rule was outdated and dangerous to society. The McNaughton rule is a test of sanity to determine if the subject knew right from wrong

at the time of the act. Thomas's attorneys argued on January 14th, 1965, that he didn't receive a fair trial due to seven errors. One error was that the jury should have been given an instruction about what would happen if they found Thomas insane. Thomas's attorneys also argued that the current test of legal insanity, the McNaughton rule, was harsh. On January 22nd, the Nevada Supreme Court upheld the murder conviction. The court found that two errors were made, but they were said to have been harmless. And I took that to mean they wouldn't have affected the outcome. outcome of the trial.

On March 11th of that year, Thomas's execution was set for April 7th. On March 19th, the Nevada Supreme Court granted another stay of execution to allow time for an appeal. The next year on June 20th, 1966, the United States Supreme Court refused to review Thomas's case. Thomas claimed that he was not told of his right to remain silent or have an attorney and questioned if his confession was admissible. The DA argued that the defense made no attempt to block the confession at trial

and even asked that it be admitted. So, you know, this goes back to your point. You know, would it have been different if the defense had taken a different route and actually argued the facts of the case and, you know, asked for a change of venue, tried to get. some of the evidence, excluded. It seems as though they just kind of fast forwarded to the,

let's prove he was insane at the time of the murder part of the trial. And it didn't work. It backfired. In October 1966, Thomas was ordered to be returned to the Washoe District Court for a hearing based on the argument that he did not receive a fair trial due to pretrial publicity and lack of effective counsel. The hearing didn't start until September 11, 1967.

At this hearing, the DA was accused of trying to inflame the jury with the color photos of Sonia's body. Harry Anderson died in January of 1964. His widow testified that he was sick with what he thought was the flu before and during the trial. He was exhausted and was taking a lot of medication. After the trial, he went on a fishing. trip and passed out and he died in in january of 64 mrs anderson said that her husband was very interested

and concerned about the case according to the reno gazette journal he was not alert physically but was quite alert mentally that's what she said okay but it does sound like he had something going on but i could also see how you know he's passed away she doesn't want you know his name to be smeared she's trying to kind of preserve his good name. Over a year later on October 7th, 1968, a Washoe district court judge ruled that Thomas received a fair trial. In 1972, the Supreme Court found that the death penalty was unconstitutional. This affected eight death row inmates in Nevada.

And one of these inmates was Thomas B. Later that year, the Nevada Board of Partons commuted the death sentences of those eight inmates to life without parole. According to the Nevada Department of Corrections, inmate search page, Thomas Lee being is 78 years old and still incarcerated. Gibbs, he was 18 years old at the time of that murder.

Just a kid, really? I mean, I know people say no, 18, you're legally an adult, but. Which is true. It is.

Legally, you are an adult. And so you are sentenced as an adult. And I'm not arguing or I won't argue the fact that, you know, he deserved to be in prison for the rest of his life. No. I'm just kind of thinking 60 years is a long time. Well, he had a dream.

He went for his dream. Now he has to live with the consequences. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I go back to that and think, what a bizarre way to say it. Right. I had a childhood dream. Most of the time when you hear that,

you're thinking about somebody who wants to play in the NFL, the NBA, be an astronaut. Yeah. Not rape a girl, which is what he said his childhood dream was. Yeah, scary. The police described Sonia's death as the worst murder in the history of the city.

According to the Reno Gazette Journal, Thomas Bean struggled with feelings of hatred towards his, parents, no doubt. And he even admitted it. He had fantasies of rape from a very young age. I think he and his family felt as though the system failed him, right? He didn't get the mental health help that he needed when he was in, you know, some of these facilities. And that ultimately contributed to the brutal murder of Sonia McCasky. And that might be true. true. He may have needed help. He might not have gotten that help. Yeah, I think he needed help. Now, as part of that, the time frame in which, you know, Thomas Bean grew up in, maybe. Does he get that

help today? I think it's much more likely that he would. I think so. Because we've come a long way with our understanding of mental health and issues around that. I think to your point, you know, this was a kid even up to, you know, the age of 18 who, you know, had some very disturbing thoughts and urges. Now, what would have helped that? I don't know. Was he mentally ill because he had those thoughts and urges? I don't know that either. I still don't know how a mental health professional can say he didn't know right from wrong, but he knew that what he did was against the law. That's contradicting. Yeah, I'm struggling to understand how that works.

You know, one thing that I'm really wondering is most of what we talked about that had to do with his childhood came from his dad in talking to the papers. I just wonder if there was more that wasn't told. Obviously, his dad's not going to really disclose things that would make him look bad. Yeah. So I'm not saying there was, I'm just wondering if maybe there was a little bit more that happened. I think it's very possible to shape this guy. Yes. Or to traumatize him or, you know, kind of lead him down this very strange odd path.

I mean, I think there's got to be something, something that influenced that conversation in his head that my dream is to rape a woman. Yeah. Yeah. From a young age. Yeah. It seems like something had to trigger that. I just don't know how that crops up all of a sudden. Yeah.

But that's it for our episode on Thomas Lee Bean. We got some voicemails gives you. And check those out. Always want to hear those. Bonjour, Mike E. This is Jolie's Eve from Lendbe, Haiti. And I just wanted to let you guys know. I love you so much.

Like everyone else, you bring me hours and hours of joy. I hope you enjoyed the coffee. It is from an area near my village. I am in Cup, I say, so not in Puerto Plants where most of the issues are happening. But I just wanted to start for a second and just say thank you. And for the longest time, I was very much seeing Gibby. It was like, Gibby, Gibby, Gibby, Gibby, Ghibie, Yay, Gibi. But then I heard Mike sing Bruce Springsteen and I was sold.

I will die for you, Mike. I persist. Hey, little Mike here's your old mama home. Does she go and leave you? Oh, Lord. I got a bad desire. Oh, T-cats. All right.

Okay, I love you. And I will continue to listen and donate. Wow. Love it. Love it. First of all, love the accent. Absolutely. One of my new favorites right there.

And then it always amazes me how you have the accent. But when you go to sing the song, The accent's gone. Isn't that amazing? You ever noticed that? Yeah. I can't believe she flipped on me, though. Oh, I can.

Now, that means to get her back, I have to sing. Yeah. I've been trying to coax you into it. But if I do that, it's just not fair to you. It won't be fair. Who are you, Tom Jones? I'm just saying. Hi, guys.

My name is Christina, and I'm originally from California, but I actually live in the small state, Rhode Island. I'm just calling because I want to thank you guys much for your podcast. And I'm listening since I think like 2018. And I went through a lot of loss since then. My dad passed away and his name was Ulta Mike. And I listened to you guys' podcasts religiously during that time. It really helped me. And then when I moved across the country, I drove. So I made my boyfriend who was driving with me, listened to you guys' podcast, basically the whole drive. So he knows all about you guys now. I think I'm Team Furgy.

but you guys are both great and keep your own time ticket. Now, I swear I did not pick these on purpose. I think you did. I didn't. It's not fair. That I picked the voicemail? Because if that was the case, I wouldn't play so many that say I'm team game. Yeah, that's true.

It just happened that way. Wow, she moved from the third largest state to the smallest state. That's pretty amazing. You're really trying to show off your knowledge of geography there. That's right. Aren't you? Yeah. All right.

I know my, uh, I dig it. My geology. Geography. You studied rocks and locations and maps and all the. Dad always said is your edges full of rocks. I'm like, yeah, geology, man. All right. We had no mail bag.

She mentioned the first caller mentioned coffee, but I don't know where that's coming from. I haven't got it yet. Probably on its way. I don't know if you. sent anything international lately is taking a very long time for things to get where they're supposed to go even even across the the country seems like things are taken longer than it used to well so it was really good coffee and somebody got to the mail before you did maybe and attempted to try it and liked it and just didn't let you know that it was received yeah that could happen I don't think so but

that is it buddy for another episode of true crime all the time so for mike and give me stay safe and keep your own time ticking.