True Crime All The Time - Thomas Olsen

Episode Date: August 23, 2021

Birna Brjansdottir disappeared on January 14, 2017, after a night out with friends in Iceland. The 20-year-old sales assistant lived with her mother and routinely walked home after a night at the bars. This was a common practice in Iceland because their crime rate, and especially their homicide rate, was so low. But, Birna met a complete stranger named Thomas Olsen who was determined to end her life.Join Mike and Gibby as they head to Iceland to discuss Thomas Olsen and the murder of Birna. Thomas Olsen was a 25-year-old fisherman from Greenland who was set to board a fishing vessel at the port after he murdered Birna. But, he was not alone at the time that Birna disappeared and the police had a hard time figuring out whether Thomas or his friend Nikolai was the main suspect. The evidence finally led them to Thomas but a good deal of international diplomacy had to happen to make the arrest. You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 247 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson. And with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Give me, how are you? Hey man, I'm doing good. How about you? Doing great. Yeah. Excited for the episodes that we have on tap tonight. Me too. You sound very excited. I'm really excited. Let's give our Patreon shoutouts. We had Bad Ash. Hey, what's going on? Bad Ash. Michelle Diube Schweitzer. What's going on, that you Schweizer? Lisa Love. Hey, L.L.

Chris Konigsberg. What's going on, KK. April Pesh jumped out at our highest level. Hey, thank you, April. Holly McCoy. Hey, Holly. Michael Zarth. What's going on, Zarth?

Vani Nichols. Hey, Vani. Griffin. Good old Griffin. Dana Mackie. What's up? Dana. Trinity Alderton jumped out of our highest level.

And Trinity. And Jarko jumped out of our highest level. Like Jarko. We had Emily Armstrong. Hey, Emily. Holly Dibiasi. What's going on? on Ted's daughter.

I think that's Ted's daughter. L.C. Smith. A.L.C. Candice Evans jumped out at our highest level. What's happened, Candice? Valerie, Sikora, jumped out of our highest level. Man, thank you, Sikora. Alice Lopez.

Hey, Alice. And Yvonne Hardy jumped out of our highest level. I appreciate that, Yvonne. So that's a lot of great new Patreon support. And then if we go back into the Vault Gibbs, this week we selected Jessica Chaney. What's going on, Jessica? So a big shout out to Jessica and all the new people that

chose to support us. Appreciate it all. We had some great PayPal donations as well from Aubrey Eldridge. Hey, Aubrey. Lori Roberts. Hey, Lori. Richard Sims. What's going on, Richard?

And Chris Konigsberg. Hey, there's the Konigsberg. So Patreon and PayPal. Yeah. So awesome. Appreciate all the support. Gibbs, right now we have an episode out on true crime all the time on salt. We're talking about the murder of Barbara Barnes.

We're in our home state of Ohio up in Stubinville. Yeah. pretty far north from where we are closer to Cleveland. Yeah, I mean, we're going to dive into that case. You know, we've got a 13-year-old that ends up going missing on her way to school. And eventually she's found. And we're kind of diving to what they find and some persons of interest. And we'll see where the case sits today.

So make sure you check that out. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime all the time? Man, I'm ready. So we are heading to Reykjavik, Issa. Oh, yeah. So, you know, be ready for some pretty tough pronunciations in this one. I got you covered. Names, places. There's, there's going to be, there's going to be some. I'm an, I'm an expert. Oh, I know. And I feel comfortable because you're with me.

Exactly. I would never try this alone. And you should not. And I shouldn't. It was on January 4th, 2017, that Thomas Mueller Olson murdered Birna Brandsdier. in a random opportunity attack. This murder shocked the community in Reykjavik. And I think Gibbs, you have to kind of understand why, right? Murder is very common where we are. And in a lot of other countries it is as well, Iceland is one of those exceptions. It is not common.

Right. Homicide over there. Don't have a lot, do they? No. Beirna's death was devastating because, you know, people felt that their sense of safety had been taken away from them. It kind of reminds me of some of the cases that you and I have done that stretched back into, let's say, 60s, probably better even into the 50s, small town. Right.

People didn't lock their doors. All of a sudden, there's this horrific murder. And it's kind of like life changed in that community. I bet it did. Well, here we're talking about a whole country. The whole country switched. The whole country was like Mayberry. Yeah. And still is probably to some extent, they definitely don't have the history of

homicidal violence that, let's say, the U.S. does or some other countries. And I think what made it even worse for people was that Thomas and Birona were complete strangers. So I think that fact added like a deeper element of fear for most people. Yeah. If they didn't even know each other, man. Yeah, this wasn't a crime of. of passion. This wasn't someone catching their spouse and cheating on them or, you know, something like that. Not that makes it any better. But when you have stranger on stranger crime murder, right? It is somewhat baffling, right? It's hard to understand how someone can just select a random stranger and to say to themselves, I'm going to murder this person. And that's

where the larger fear comes in, right? Yeah. Because now you're like, well, it could be anyone. Exactly. Could be me next if I'm not careful. Thomas was a troubled young man with a history of sexual violence towards women. And it just happened that Birna walked into his path that night, giving him the perfect opportunity to assault and murder a young girl because that's what he was looking to do. Beirner was from Iceland, a country with a population of about 330-something, you know, 330-some.

thousand people. We mentioned it, right? Iceland is somewhat unique in the fact that it has an extremely low murder rate. Gibbs, their average murder rate since 2001 has been less than two people per year. Two people per year. That you can't even comprehend that. Oh,

don't even have that in the city that we live in. That's what I was going to say. I mean, than the entire country of Iceland. Maybe it's those northern lights. You think that's what it is? Everybody's too busy looking at those. Yeah.

Maybe they're calming. They could be. Murders over there are typically caused by drunken fights or family problems, things like that. An unsolved murder case is almost unheard of. So just to give a little bit of a comparison, the U.S. averages somewhere between, you know, 15,000 to 16,000 murders. in any given year. So that's quite, that's quite a difference. Now, obviously, we have many more people that live in the U.S., but even given that, the ratios is so much higher over here. In 2003, 2006, and 2008, there were no murders in Iceland at all. Murders are so rare that when someone

is killed, the president and prime minister often personally give condolences to the family. Can you imagine if the president of the United States had to give condolences every time, you know, someone was murdered here? Right. Be too busy doing that all the time. Or she. Or she or they. Or they. Hasn't happened yet.

But you never know. You never know. There's six prisons in Iceland with only about 150 prisoners dispersed throughout all of them. So, you know, do that math. So it sounds like they don't have a lot of violent crime. No. And they have about 20. to let's say 25 prisoners in each prison.

Probably fighting over beer. Yeah. There were, it did talk a lot about drunken fights, but you know, crime rates are so low over there. Police don't even carry guns. From what I understood,

only special forces carry guns in Iceland. Now, civilians can own guns for hunting, self-defense, but even with that fact, guns are rarely used in homicides. And I think because of all these statistics, right?

It's very common in that country for young women to feel safe, to walk home alone. Let's say at night when they've been out at the pubs, at the bars, whatever. Yeah. Okay. It's pretty safe. I can do this because it's happened time after time and they almost always make it home safely. And something that you and I talk about quite a lot, right? Talking to strangers, inviting strangers to go out with you.

because you're headed to the pub. You want to go with me? Does it happen here? I'm sure it does. Does it happen all that often? No, no. The culture is very different, right? Between the two countries, the U.S. and Iceland. Birna Brands Dottier was born on November 28th, 1996. In 2017, she was a 20-year-old sales assistant living in Reykjavik. She lived with her mother in a house, about 30 minutes away from the city center. She worked in the fashion section of a department store. I think it's called Hag Cop. That's what I'm going with.

The first pronunciation was her last name. This is the next one. Yeah. So you do. It was said about Birna that she liked listening to music. She liked to drive around in her free time. Okay. Pretty common, right?

I know for my daughters who are now both of driving age, they like nothing better than to get in that car and blast their music and drive around because why? That's their free zone. Yeah, do a little car dancing. Right. Mom and dad's not there. I've got this sense of independence. I'm on my own. I can do my own thing. I get it. I was that way too when I was 16, 17. Who doesn't like a little car dancing? I don't know if I did a lot of car dancing because Oh, I probably. I still do that today, actually. A little car concert every now and then, you know.

Well, that's different. You think you're just as good as the person on the radio? I did a lot of that. Always like the air drums in the car. Did you? Yeah. Yeah. That's really not as safe because you don't have any hands on the wheel.

Right. The singing, the dancing, okay, that's a little safer as long as you got your hands on the wheel, or at least a hand. Yeah. But I guess this is pretty common in Iceland. It's called runtour. It's basically cruising down the street, get your windows down, you're playing your music loud. On the weekends, once Beirna got off work, she liked to play cards and pubs with her friends.

Gibbs, she was a normal, happy girl. She had a dream to move to the U.S. to work as a makeup artist for movies and theater. Cool. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, how exciting would that be to be a makeup artist and meet all these stars and, and, and know that you're helping to kind of put this production together.

You actually have a listener that does that. Mm-hmm. And one of these days I'm going to get them to find a way to make your face so that you can put it on my face. You're going to sign to the lambs me? Is that what you're talking about? I'm going to walk in here and we would do the Patreon video. They'd be like, wait, there's two Ferguson's.

Oh, okay. And like, who's the right Ferguson? I thought you were going to sign so the lambs me. I'm a little worried now. Well, maybe you ought to be. In the summer of 2016, Birna dated an American named Andrew Morgan. Andrew told in New York Times that

Birna loved talking to strangers. He said she wanted to know someone from every nation. And then she wanted to visit them all. So this was a person that had a lot of dreams, a lot of aspirations. Part of that was travel. She wanted to go to all these different countries, have friends in each one of these countries and be able to visit them.

That's a great thing to do. Andrew said that Birna liked to walk along Lega Verger, which is the main shopping street in the city center. He always warned her that she shouldn't walk home alone at night. And I get that, right? He's an American, probably thinking about what he's used to in, you know, whatever city he lives in in America thinking, yeah, that's dangerous, right? Walking home alone at night, especially after you've been, you know,

drinking a little bit at the pub. All right, maybe you shouldn't do that. She always disagreed with him and told him that, you know, it's nothing. There's no reason to worry about it, basically saying, hey, things are different over here in Iceland. Sure, women are safe here. They can, they can walk alone at night. Yeah. Andrew and Beirner broke up after she visited him in Utah that summer and they decided that a long-distance relationship was just too difficult. By the end of that year, Beirna was slowly transitioning back into the dating world, and she was going out with a lot of her friends.

Beirna's last social post was on January 12th, 2017. She wrote two minutes until the worst day of the year. Kiss a ginger day was over, Gibbs, and no one had kissed her. What? So this is not something I was. familiar with. Oh, you don't know about this. No, no, I had to look this up. Sounds like you already knew about it. That's why I carry the red wig. But basically, it's an unofficial holiday that is

celebrated all over the world on January 12th. Yeah. The purpose of the holiday is to show that special ginger in your life just how much you care by giving them a kiss, either on the cheek or on the lips. I'm sure there's got to be some kind of consensuality there. I don't even think that's a word, but you can't just be going around kissing people on the lips, can you? Well, you probably could. Well, maybe pre-COVID time, but. I don't even know pre-COVID time. You just can't walk up to people and kiss them right on the lips.

They might smack you afterwards. That's an invasion of personal space. So it's only been celebrated since 2009. What I saw was a guy just came up with it like on Facebook and said, hey, we should have this. And the next thing you know, it just spread like wildfire. one article I was reading said that just about 2% of the world's population has natural red hair. Pretty small percentage.

It is. It just means there's a lot of fake red hair people out there. Why? Because more than 2% of the population you believe has red hair? Yeah. Oh, you're probably right. But really, if I think about it, I think there's a lot of people out there that I don't really have their truth. That's what I was getting ready to say.

It's not just red. Everybody is a lot of people are doing a. different hair color than what their true hair color is. I know you like to do the frosted tips, a little highlights, you know, but I don't say anything. No, you know, it works for me. Yeah. And you always say, I don't have any hair to color anyway, so there you go. You're a la natural. So she made the social media post. And her friend said that she had such a good sense of humor. And that you could tell that, not just from being around her, but you could tell her, Just from looking at her social media post, she was funny, she was engaging.

So I mentioned it Gibbs, right? Beirna and Thomas were complete strangers. Thomas Mueller Olson was a 25-year-old fisherman from Greenland. Greenland is an autonomous territory of Denmark. I'm not even sure I knew that. I know I didn't know that. I saw that in the research. The majority of the population are Greenlandic Inuit.

There's only about 58,000 people in Greenland, but it takes the title for the largest island in the world. So we're learning a lot, right, through the research of this episode. The other thing I learned was that Greenland has no traditional prisons. Instead of locking criminals up, they put them in what they call like rehabilitation centers. And if an inmate gets too violent or they're deemed too dangerous, they are sent to Denmark. Right. You're off the island. get off the island go to Denmark, we'll put you in a prison there.

Right. Well, there can't be too many of them because we already talked about the fact that Denmark doesn't have too many people in prison. So Thomas worked on a fishing trawler called the Polar Nenak. Really couldn't find much Gibbs on him as far as it pertains to his early life. The articles and stuff just didn't really have much. But his adult life was definitely trouble. Thomas had a criminal record for dealing hashy,

in Greenland. A woman in her 20s there accused him of raping her in 2011. What she said was that she laid down on a bed and was speaking to her boyfriend on the phone. She fell asleep and when she woke up, Thomas Olson was raping her. She said she was too drunk to fight him off. She did go to police that morning and a doctor's exam confirmed that she had been raped. Unfortunately, her testimony and the evidence didn't lead to a conviction because Thomas had a relative who was at this party and testified that the sex was consensual. So Thomas Olson was acquitted of the rape charge. I think you see that a lot in these sexual assault cases where it's always going to be one person's word against the others. Yeah, but you really feel bad. Oh, of course. For women who have been

sexually assaulted, then they do what they're supposed to do, right? Go to the police. They're subjected to an exam, which has to be tough, very tough after, you know, what's happened to them. And then, you know, you get your day in court and the person gets acquitted. So what are you feeling? I don't know personally, but I would think you're feeling victimized again. For sure.

I think it's probably like some betrayal. Yeah. It's got to be crushing. Yeah. So Birna went missing on the morning of January 14th, 2017, after a long night out with friends. The night started on the 13th with her and some friends dancing. They went out to the bars. What I got a kick out of was that in a lot of the research, it talked about how, you know,

really parties don't start till after midnight. And I think you can make that case over here as well. Sure. Yeah. For young people. You know, for me, the next day starts after midnight. I'm getting my, my beauty rest. But, well, I shouldn't say that.

I stay up late, but I'm not out partying. No, you're not. But I used to. Back in the day? Yeah. Yeah, the Frank the Tank. During the Frank the Tank days. Yeah.

And I remember that, right? 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock, you're starting to get kind of ramped up. After midnight, things really start to kind of get in the group, right, as far as the party is concerned. Yeah. Like it's easier to stay at home and drink and do whatever you want to do and then go out to the bar towards the end of the night. Well, and that's what often happened because drinks were so expensive at the bar. We didn't have all that much money. So, you know, you get your natty light and you drink that at home and then you go to the bar.

Yeah. So after midnight, Beirna and her friends went to a place called Hurrah, a popular pub and music club. some of her friends decide to leave at 2 a.m. But Beirna wanted to stay. The last friend who was with Beirna was Met Hilder Jan's Dottier. They played a card game at a pub in the city center before they went dancing. Methilder left the pub before Beirna. Beirna wanted to stay until last call. None of the girls knew where Beirna was going after she left the pub. She was last seen at 4 a.m. at the bar. She left and walked away from the downtown area. She was recorded on CCTV just before 5 a.m.

purchasing a falafel pita from a food stand, something I also remember from my younger days. Like getting something from the stand? Well, after a night of out on the town. Yeah. You're staying up so late or, you know, into the early morning hours, you're bound to get hungry. Get the munchies? Yeah. Not from that, but you know what I'm saying.

Yeah. You're bound to get hungry. There was always a food truck or something around that stayed open really, really late to the time where the bars closed. Or that one building that has the bell up on top that serves tacos? Taco Bell. Yeah, and a pinch. But I prefer like food trucks. Yeah.

Especially in college. All right, Gibbs. Let's take a minute to talk about Amazon Key in garage delivery. It's arrived. I love it. I don't know how I lived without it. You know, it's a convenient. super easy way to get Amazon deliveries and keep them safe. It's no secret. I've talked about it before.

My family orders from Amazon quite a bit. But within garage delivery, drivers leave packages inside your garage instead of on your doorstep. And this is huge for us because we don't have to worry if we're home or not when the delivery person drops them off. I don't have to keep checking the front door about 15 times a day, which is what I used to do. All my packages are put securely in my garage. And it's the package that is the key that opens your garage door. When a driver scans it, they get one time verified access to make a delivery. So you're not sharing your garage code with drivers. And best of all, in garage delivery is free for prime members. So after setting up in garage delivery, which is unbelievably easy, by the way, just add items to your Amazon cart, select key

delivery at checkout and get packages in your garage. It's really that simple. So if you're ready for easier Amazon deliveries and peace of mind. When it comes to your packages, try in garage delivery and get a $40 Amazon credit with your first order. Terms and conditions apply. Visit Amazon.com slash Amazon Key to learn more. Beirna was last seen on CCTV at 525am walking along Lagavirger, the street that cuts through the city center. The street is very well lit. And there were other people out walking. What I haven't talked about Gibbs is that it was minus nine degrees Celsius. So about 16 degrees Fahrenheit. That's probably a warm day there. It's pretty, it's pretty chilly. But despite the cold, she was only wearing some Doc Martins, a pair of black

jeans, a sweater, and a hoodie. Pretty fashionable. No, fashionable, not extremely warm, but that kind of same thing applies here in the U.S. right? Where we, live in Ohio, we don't dress as warmly as somebody, let's say, from Florida. Right. Would if they came up here to visit. Sure, yeah. Because they're, they're freezing cold. Well, we're kind of used to it. Exactly. In this footage, she appeared to be unsteady on her feet. She dropped her coins at one point. She bumped into a stranger who was talking to a friend. So clearly she was, you know, intoxicated. I think that's pretty evident from the footage. And then the footage shows her walking up the street and disappearing out of view.

Beerna's phone was turned off at 6 a.m. But not before it pinged off a cell tower near a harbor in a neighboring town. Her mother, Silla, Reins Dottier, called her on the morning of January 14th when she didn't come home. Beirna was declared missing when she didn't show up to work that day. Her friend and co-worker Maria B. Arna Docteer thought it was strange that Beirna didn't show up. And we hear this a lot, right, in cases. Unless you're somebody that is flaky at work.

Right. Then people are going to be concerned. Sure, yeah. When you have a no call, no show because it's unlike you. Yeah, they're dependable. You're like, I can't believe they're not here. They're always here. Or they would have called.

Exactly. And so that's strange. Maria tried to call Birna, but she didn't answer. Then she called the girls that Birna was with the night before. And they said that they all assumed she went back to her dad's house for the night. But a phone call confirmed she wasn't there. Maria called Beirna's mom to check in with her. Tzilla was extremely worried.

Beirna always told her what she was doing and where she was going. So I think she was a very responsible person. You get that from people being concerned at work. Obviously, she wasn't a flaky person at work. I think the same holds true in her personal life. Right. You know, interactions with her mom. She was very communicative telling her mom where she was, where she was going,

what time she'd be home, things like that. Sillifiled a missing person's report and posted on Facebook. It said, dear friends, it's not like her that we can't reach her. Please share her and let's find her. Silla called emergency services every hour to see if they had any news on her daughter. Again, what you would expect, right, from a worried parent. I'm sure she was restless. I've never been in this situation.

I don't want to be in this situation. I can only imagine what it would be like. I feel like I would be going out of my mind. Gibbs, where is she? Where could she be? I think you and I both would be doing the same thing as most people would. You're calling hospitals. you're calling the police, you're calling friends,

you're calling anyone that you can think of who might have some idea where your child is. The detective assigned to the case, Grimier Grimson, wasn't worried. You know, people who went missing almost always turned up there. And that makes a lot of sense, right? If you have a very low crime rate, a very low homicide rate,

right. Someone who is thought to be missing is probably not the victim them up foul play because it very rarely happens. Yeah. I think he just believed that Beirna was just at a friend's house. But I could see why he wouldn't be too concerned right off the bat. Very different than what you and I talk about with cases here in the U.S. where, you know, children are reported missing.

Even a 20 year old like Beirna, I mean, she's still someone's child. Sure. When those people are reported missing, nowadays at least, The police take, you know, a little bit quicker action, especially if they're under 18. And when they don't take quick action, we kind of get on them, right? We talk about, well, why didn't they do this? Why didn't they do that? You know, it's kind of hard for me to say that in this case because I get what the thinking

would be. We have a couple of murders a year. So let's not jump to conclusions and say something bad has happened because it very rarely does. Right. It's most likely she's at a friend's house or. And she's 20 years old. So the fact that she hasn't called in or checked in with somebody is maybe her business, right?

That could be the thinking there. Grimson was briefed on the case when he reported to work that day. Beerna's mother gave over some of her clothing. And they used that with the scent tracking dogs. And they were able to lead police to the street where Beirna was last. So police analyzed the security footage and they tracked her for a few blocks until she went off camera. A red Kia was seen on security cameras in that same area. The police made a note of the vehicle.

The problem they had gives was that they couldn't see the license plate number. Well, there's probably plenty of red kias. I'm sure there is. At 9 a.m. on Sunday. Still learned that Beeren's phone was turned off at 5.50 a.m. on Saturday. But before then, it pinged a mobile tower in an industrial area. So she drove down there with some of Beer and his friends. They knocked on doors.

Gibbs, they searched the entire town. And I can see any parent doing that. Yeah. You're going to do whatever you can. Well, and I think to add to that, Silla was a little frustrated because she felt as though the police was acting slower than what she would have liked. them to act. When local TV stations called her and requested an interview, she agreed, basically hoping that it would put pressure on the police to work faster to take it a little more

seriously. At 2 a.m. Monday morning, Silla and Brian Bina's father went to the police station. Silla begged the police to take her daughter's case seriously. She said her daughter had no reason to go missing voluntarily right on her own she loved her family she wasn't involved with drugs or crime in any way she didn't have any money troubles yeah but she kind of felt like the detectives we're treating her like she was this a historical did i just say historical yeah kind of a cross in between but it did come out a little closer hysterical mother i mean she's down there at 2 a.m but i wouldn't say she's hysterical I would say she's a concerned, frightened, frightened, frightened parent.

Okay, let's say she was hysterical. What's wrong with that? I think I might be a little hysterical. Sure, if you're not seeing the action that you expected to see from the police. Yeah, I think I might get hysterical. On Monday, January 16th, the police held a press conference to ask for information from the public. Beerna's parents were also allowed to speak. Silla said that she was afraid Berna had.

been kidnapped by a tourist. She said, I think she might have gone into a car with someone she didn't know. Someone knows where she is and I think someone is keeping her. It's very unlike her to go into hiding. She isn't depressed and she isn't involved with drugs. According to CNN, Beirna was planning a trip to New York and may have stopped to ask an American for information. Silla said that Beirna was also recently back on Tinder after her breakup. So I think she had concerns that someone from that app, Tinder, may have taken her. Some of these dating apps today are kind of scary. Well, you know, I was thinking about that. I've never used Tinder. You know, obviously it came along way too late for me. I've been married for 25 years. But how much do you really know about this

person you're swiping left or right? Which one is the, the one? where you say you like them. I don't know. Either way, how much do you really know about this person that you're going to meet? I don't, I think you know what they want you to know. From what they put into the app, right? Picture, information. Is that their real picture?

Are they catfishing? Yeah. Yeah. I think you're right. It's a little scary. Yeah, I think you can apply that to about every social media today, right? Sure. You only know what they want you to know.

Exactly. The Association for Search and Rescue was the, organization in charge of looking for Beerna. They didn't like the idea of a press conference. I think Gibbs to them, they thought civilian involvement would be more of a hindrance than a help, but they were wrong. And to be honest, I don't get that way of thinking. I mean, wouldn't you want as many people out looking?

Obviously, if no one knows about it. Right. Then they can't be on the lookout. Right. If you're not, if the picture is not being put out there, if the, her information, is not being put out there, then how do people know to come forward because you're not publicizing it? Yeah, I don't know why they wouldn't have liked it. I mean, it's beneficial to the whole case. The more people that are looking, the more people that know the better. I mean, yeah,

that was my way of thinking, too. On January 17th, three days after Beirna's disappearance, her Doc Martens were found near the harbor at Hatnar Firthirthir, small town about 10 miles away from, from Reykjavik. This is the same harbor where her cell phone pinged off the tower. So basically two brothers decided to go looking for her in this town. They went into the harbor and they found a fenced off area with three large oil storage tanks and an open patch of ground. And it was alongside some pipes that they found a pair of black boots. And what they did give was they posted a photo to Facebook and police.

Pushed to the harbor. Divers searched in the water, but they didn't find anything else. So I think the police probably got excited. Maybe potentially, maybe we know where she's at. Maybe she took her Doc Barton's off and went into the water. Maybe. Yeah. But, you know, let's go back to these two brothers. Without the press conference, are they aware of her disappearance and, you know, do they decide to go out looking and they find the boot? Right. Maybe none of that happened. So, you know, that's where I said, okay, this search and rescue organization didn't

want it. They didn't like it, but they were wrong because ultimately it did turn out to produce something. Yeah. At least these boys knew. And they knew what she was wearing because they knew they were aware of the Doc Martins. Yeah. After her shoes were found, the police watched the CCTV footage of the harbor and the surrounding area.

CCTV captured the same red key. near the harbor within just a few minutes of the time when Bearden's phone turned off. But this time, they were able to get the license plate number. Just after 6 a.m., the Kia entered the harbor. The car parked next to the polar Nenak, a Greenland fishing trawler moored to a nearby dock. A man got out of the passenger door and he walked onto the ship. Then the car drove off. So now they have, you know, you use the word.

excited. And I don't know if that's the right word or not Gibbs, but maybe it is. I mean, I think police, they have to be very hopeful based on what's been found out. Well, sure. I mean, if the red Kia was the car that was seen near where she was last seen, and now they see it on video over where her Doc Martins are found. And where her cell phone was turned off. Okay. Yeah. I think as a police agency, you got to be putting some things together to say, hey, we need to figure out who was driving this red key or who owns it or who got out of it or, you know, we got to identify the driver for sure. So when they looked up the license plate, the police learned it was a rental car hired by two fishermen, Thomas Mueller Olson and Nikolai Olson. no relation to each other. They just happened to have the same last name.

Spelled the same as well. Thomas returned the vehicle at noon on Saturday, January 14th. It was then rented out to a family. And when police figured out where it was, they learned that the car was cleaned, which, you know, that had to be pretty concerning because you're worried about loss of evidence

and all that. The good news is there was still plenty of evidence left behind. Yeah. I can tell you from a personal experience because I worked at a car rental place when I was going to college. And I can tell you, we don't clean them as good as you would want them clean. Not as thorough. At least the ones cleaned out by one Michael Gibson. And depending on the day of the week, you know, sometimes we had to get those cars back up to the lot as soon as possible.

Oh, because the turnaround time was so fast. So, you know, maybe we grabbed the trash off the floor and you got the car right back at you. Yeah, maybe that's why they don't, back in the day, didn't smell as good as I would have liked for them to smell. Yeah. The car was also damaged, indicating to police that it most likely had been taken off for it. They also figured out that the car had been driven about 300 kilometers, 180 miles or so, much farther than the driver's claims, which were that he was renting the car just to drive around town. Well, that's a lot of driving around town. It is.

Luminol revealed blood spatter in the backseat. Testing of the blood spatter determined that it was Bierna's blood. So police have a couple of good suspects, right? But they have to locate these men. One of the problems they had was that the polar Nanak had set off for Greenland a few days earlier. The ship was hundreds of miles away. Both Thomas and Nikolai Olson were on. the ship along with other crewmates. The crew normally thought Thomas was pretty easygoing,

likable guy, but they noticed on this trip that he was very agitated. And one crew member said that one afternoon he saw a message that made him very upset. So at some point, a newspaper reporter in Reykjavik discovered the ship was linked to Beirna's disappearance. She found the crew's Facebook group and message Thomas to ask if he knew who rented the car. Thomas showed the message to his captain. And the captain said, hey, if you didn't do anything wrong, you don't have anything to worry about. And that's how it should always be in life. You didn't do anything wrong.

You shouldn't have any worries. He also gave Thomas some sedatives to help him calm down. So I think that tells you the level of agitation that this guy was experiencing. Well, and also on those fishing boats. That's a concern too, right? You can't have somebody acting like that, right? It's not good for the rest of the cruise morale. Well, not only that, they're safety, right?

I mean, anybody who's watched Deadliest Catch or any of those fishing shows, it's kind of a dangerous job. Yeah. There's a lot of, you know, on some of these big ships, a lot of crates, crab, whatever you call them. Cages? Cages, yeah. I've seen people really get hurt because they're not paying attention.

Yeah. So you don't want somebody that's distracted, agitated, and who is possibly not going to do their job correctly. It's not a fun job, man. I did that one stint and then the perfect storm came along. You drove your rental car onto the boat. Exactly. You know, the one thing that really jumped out of me here, Gibbs, is social media. It seems like social media played a huge part in this case, right?

from the discovering of the Doc Martins, that being posted on Facebook. Okay, police jumped into action. This reporter is reaching out to the ship via their Facebook page. That's the era we're in now. Yeah, no doubt. It's just something that I don't think we cover a lot. Obviously, you're not going to see that in older cases. You can't.

But police had a problem here. They had kind of a tricky situation, right? with diplomacy, the polar Nanak was a Greenlandic ship, now in Greenland. So they just couldn't make an arrest on foreign territory. The Iceland Coast Guard made contact with a Danish warship to get help with the arrest. Then the detectives in Iceland got some really good news. The captain of the ship read online that his ship was linked to the murder. He didn't want his crew to be implicated, so he turned around.

and decided to sail back to Iceland to answer questions. Good move. And not only that, but he got the crew to tell Thomas and Nikolai that the engine malfunction. And that was the reason that they had to turn around. He even turned off the ship's Wi-Fi so that these guys couldn't read any breaking news or, you know, see anything on there about the ship and people looking for it and all of that. Yeah, he didn't want to give them any heads up, any alerting. That way they didn't find a way to escape before they got where they needed to be. And I think the crew, they were okay with going along with this ruse because at a certain point,

they suspected that these two guys may have been involved with Bearden's disappearance because they had been acting so strange, both of them. On January 18th, 2017, the police acted on their arrest plan. the Danish Coast Guard intercepted the ship and turned it back. Icelandic police flew a helicopter over the ship to monitor it. 90 minutes later, the Viking squad, a group of six officers repelled down onto the vessel to make the arrest. The Viking squad.

That must be like a special forces type thing. Yeah, I kind of like that name. And I know it's some type of special forces because it's the only armed police force in Iceland. So they're the ones. that make arrests in like dangerous situations or special ops, things like that. And it was said that the crew cooperated with the police during the arrest. Why wouldn't they? Right.

They, they kind of, they had the heads up that was something that was going on. These guys were acting strangely. Thomas and Nikolai Olson were arrested in connection with the murder and for transporting large quantities of hashish on the ship. So not only did they think that they were involved in. Beerna's disappearance and murder, they also had a bunch of hash. A bunch, like $2 million worth. Yeah.

Not like duffel bag type stuff. I mean, this had to have been like bales. I don't know how much $2 million worth of hashish is, but it's a lot. I would think it would be. Another crew member was arrested, not having anything to do with the murder, but for being part of the smuggling operation. So all three of these guys were held in their cabins and transported to jail once the ship reached land. The ship arrived at about 11 p.m. Wednesday. Thomas and Nikolai were escorted off the ship in handcuffs and questioned separately that night.

And Gibbs, they both gave pretty similar accounts of what happened on Friday and Saturday. But I think from pretty early on, Thomas was the main suspect. Well, he did have some scratches on it. chest. He also had about 23 kilograms of hash in his cabin. So I'm not laughing because he's involved in a murder. I'm just saying that, you know, you're a murder suspect. You also have a ton of illegal drugs. What are you doing, man? I think the kicker was when police found Beirna's driver's license in the ship's garbage area. So they're thinking it's Thomas, but at the very least, they were certain, right, that it was either Thomas or Nikolai who had kidnapped

Beirnard. Now, both guys told the police that the ship arrived in Iceland on January 11th, 2017 to get fresh crew members. On the 14th, a few of the men on board decided to go into town for a night out. Nikolai took a taxi from the harbor to Reykavik. He drank at a bar, he played a game on something called the Lucky Wheel. I don't know what that is. Sounds like Wheel of Fortune maybe. By the time Thomas met him in the rental car, he was drunk. He and Thomas went to another bar and they ended up on Lagavager Street. At the same time, Birna disappeared. Nikolai was extremely drunk. And he basically said he had no memory of what happened after this time. Now, according to Thomas, two women entered the car, one of whom was Beirnman.

Nicolai was asleep. Thomas said he dropped Nikolai off at the ship at 6 a.m. He parked at the end of the harbor with the two women and he kissed them both. But he dropped them off at a roundabout at 7 a.m. So yeah, I was with her, but hey, when I dropped both of these women off, they were fine. Yeah. They were good shape. when police reviewed the CCTV footage, they could see how drunk Nikolai was.

So I think when they were, you know, comparing versions of events, they believed Nikolize, because he was super drunk. They could see that on the footage at least up into about the 5 a.m. timeframe. But I don't think they believe Thomas at all. Thomas was seen driving away from the harbor. His phone was turned off for the next four hours. And then the Keio wasn't seen again until 11 a.m.

When he came back to port. It's not good. It's not good. It's not really lining up with exactly what you're saying. Thomas at one point told the police he was asleep in the car. Well, the problem with that is, his odometer didn't match that story. No. You know, you're not getting 300 kilometers from, you know, this short trip into,

town and back to the harbor and then falling asleep in the car you're just not getting it where is the rest of the driving coming from Thomas was also seen on CCTV buying cleaning liquid clothes and plastic bags that morning that is not good doesn't make you look good especially when you're supposed to be asleep in the car right why do you need to get all these cleaning products, if you're just sleeping it off a little bit in the car, he was also seen scrubbing the inside of the car. Now, he said to police that he was cleaning up vomit. He denied any involvement in Bairna's murder. He did initially confess to selling hashish, but later he even denied that he was a drug dealer. It was this for personal use? Two million dollars worth of product

there. It's personal use, though, man. Well, I have. have a serious habit. You know. On January 21st, 2017, 800 volunteers and 700 rescue workers searched about 700 kilometers or 435 miles of coastline in roads to look for Beirna. The search for Beirna was the largest search and rescue operation in decades. Basically, everyone in the community came together to look for any sign of her.

And, you know, because you had so many people participating in the search, you had a lot of wild rumors spreading online. There were claims, Beirna had already been found in a lake, or that she and other abducted women were on the polar and in a not. No, none of this was true. No, and why would the ship turn around if it was true? And was carrying, you know, a bunch of women, potentially. involved in some type of sex trafficking operation. I never saw it said that way, but you can kind of make the inference that if you've got a bunch of women aboard this ship, there's got to be something illegal going on.

And what else would it be other than sex trafficking or something like that? And we know they searched the ship very well because that's how they found all the drugs. Beer and his body was found on Sunday, January 22nd, on a beach about 60 kilometers or 37 miles southwest of Reykjavik and 25 miles away from her shoes. On February 3rd, hundreds of mourners came to Beirna's funeral, including the president of Iceland. Thousands of Icelanders tweeted, I am Beirna to show solidarity and support her family. So again, just shows you how few and far between these types of murders were and probably

still are that the president would come. And it was, you know, it was almost like the whole country was mourning the death of this girl. Well, like you said, because they're far and few was more impactful to the community, the country. Yeah. You know, I think you're right. And, you know, unfortunately, because we see so much of it, I think sometimes we get desensitized. Desensitized is probably a good word. You know, you see it on the news and you're like, there's another one.

There's another murder. and it just becomes almost routine. And I hate to use that word. Yeah, you might like, shake your head a little bit and go, oh, man, that's, that's tragic. Yeah, it's tragic. It's terrible. But are you jumping in your car to look for someone?

No. Not probably not. Are you going to show up at somebody's funeral? No. We're not going to do that over here. Yeah. If you don't know that person or, you know, if you're not friends of the family or something like that, you're just not doing it. But this was a national event. I think it's safe to say.

Now, to be fair, they are also a much smaller country. Yeah, I mean, we have what? A thousand times more people here in the U.S. than the number of people that live in Iceland. Yeah. But even in our smaller communities, you don't see mayors showing up at funerals either. So, I mean, we just, it's not our culture. No, but I think the reason is what we just talk about, talked about. We're too used to it. And, you know, on some level, that's a very sad thing. Icelandic crime writer Irsa Seagardotter told the New York Times, she was just an innocent girl walking down the street. In the past, we have only witnessed murders like this in works of fiction. I mean, imagine that, Gibbs, being so unaccustomed to something like this

happen that you would watch it in a movie and think, well, that would never happen here. You know, we, we watch something in a movie and think, well, that happens all the time. Yeah, well, that's true. And sadly, it does. Yeah. The police told both men. Beirna's blood was found in the car, but they didn't tell them that they found her body. Nikolai was released from jail after two weeks.

The police concluded that he wasn't present when Beirna was killed. they put all their focus on Thomas, but he refused to confess. And they had nine different interviews with him where he essentially stuck with the same story. Yeah. He didn't deviate a whole lot. Beirno's autopsy report was leaked on February 6, 2017 by national broadcaster, RUV. The autopsy found that she died from drowning after she was thrown from a high distance into the ocean.

The autopsy indicated that Birna was alive when she was thrown, but she was most likely unconscious. There were bruises on her neck and head. She was found naked, which suggested to the police some sort of sexual assault occurred. On March 30th, Thomas was charged with first-degree murder and drug possession. His trial began in August of 2017. At the trial, his attorney's main strategy was to argue that there were still many unanswered questions in the case. And it wasn't fair to convict Thomas when there really wasn't clear evidence. He also tried to place the blame on Nikolai Olson. Yeah, but he never called him as a witness. Well, no. And why, why is that? You don't actually want him to get on the stand and be able to say, I didn't do it. You just want to plant the seed. Right. You know,

to the jury and say, well, he could have done it. The defense at one point changed Thomas's story and said that Beirna was the only girl in the car on January 14th. Somehow, Gibbs, they said that she just jumped in Thomas's car. Yeah. Unexpectedly. For no reason. Just let me get in your car really quick as you're, because you're right here. And then they tried to say that Thomas stopped at the harbor to use the bathroom.

And it was Nikolai who drove off. with Beirna. He then later returned that morning to pick Thomas up, but Beirna wasn't with him. So he's been interviewed by the police nine times up to this point. Nine times he's told the police the same story, but now he's at trial. Now he wants to change his story. Nine times. Bueller. Bueller. Bueller. Yeah, very strange, right? Very consistent throughout all the interviews, but now we're talking strategy. So obviously his defense attorney must have figured out, Gibbs, that it's not good for you if there's another woman in the car at this time.

So let's go with, and I'm not saying the defense attorney planted this, but, you know, let's go with the, she was in in the car by herself. That makes it easier to plant the seed that it was Nikolai, who, actually left you drove off with Birna and when he came back she wasn't there. So he must have killed her. The prosecution focused on the forensic evidence of the blood in the car Thomas rented. They had the evidence from the CCTV footage and they used both of this to make a compelling case against him. They also found his DNA on Beirna's boots and his fingerprint on her driver's license. you know, I think the blood in the car is one thing.

Sure it is. Does that prove that it was him? If they're both in the car, I would say no. The CCTV footage to me is a little better. You've got Nikolai so drunk, the way that I understood it from the research, you know, so drunk that how could he have possibly, number one, even driven the car. And, you know, number two, killed her, made it back. covered everything up, not likely, right? You've got Thomas buying all of the cleaning supplies, all of that. How did his fingerprint end up on her driver's license? And how did his DNA end up on her

boots? I think we all know. The judge deemed Thomas's testimony, quote, inconsistent and fantastical. You don't see that a lot. No, fantastical. Like, basically it's the stuff of fantasies. Yeah. You You are making this stuff up. He was found guilty of murder and drug smuggling on September 29th, 2017. Thomas was sentenced to 19 years in prison. He was ordered to pay Beerness parents about $66,000 in U.S. currency and about $264,000 in legal fees. Which we all know that in most of these cases, that money's never being paid. People never see hardly any of that money.

Now, let's talk about 19 years. You know, we've said it on other episodes where we've gone outside of the United States. A guilty verdict in the U.S. on on these charges would be minimum life. Right. I would think you're looking at a minimum life sentence because you got to, don't forget, the drug smuggling charge. Exactly. So you've got murder and drug smuggling in the, um, amount of about $2 million.

Okay, we know that some of these other places are much more lenient. 19 years is nothing to sneeze at. It's just not what we're accustomed to seeing. Yeah, it seems a little light. For us, it does, no doubt. And like you said, the order to pay, you know, the family money, the majority of the time, at least here, I don't know what it's like over there. Very hard to collect that, right?

Especially from somebody who's going to be in prison for the next 19, years. On November 23rd, 2018, an appeals court confirmed Thomas's guilty verdict and his prison sentence. He argued that he was innocent and again tried to shift all of the blame to Nikolai, but his appeal was rejected. So we talked about the shock, right? Really as a nation. You know, Iceland was shocked. And I think one of the reasons Beirna's death was so shocking was because a foreigner was involved. Normally, Icelandic murders are committed by someone who knows the victims. So what you had in the way of fallout, as you often do from big cases, is you had a lot of young girls enrolling in self-defense classes. Young women stopped walking home by themselves.

They started, you know, walking in pairs or small groups. I think there's no doubt. this murder violated the safety that women in Iceland felt up to that point, they were angry that essentially an outsider came in and hurt a member of their community. And rightfully so. I think the other thing it did is it brought up prejudices that people in Iceland have had against the indigenous people who live in Greenland. And there was a lot in the research about that.

there was a lot of racist-type comments directed at certain groups in Greenland. But, you know, a lot of those folks gave their sympathies. And basically, a lot of them were apologizing that one of their residents killed someone in Iceland. And there's always a bad apple and every bunch. Yeah, there's no doubt. You know, you're talking about any group, right? And that's not just race. I mean, you can talk about professions.

You and I have talked about police and doctors and, okay, is everyone good from any group? No, the answer is no. Like you said, bad apples. There's always going to be those. A few hundred Greenlanders gathered at the Icelandic consulate and held a candlelight vigil for Birna. So, I mean, I think they fell bad. There's no doubt about it. I'm sure they weren't happy that people were hurling racial epithets or, you know, whatever.

there was all this talk bad mouthing against them. But it does seem like they truly felt bad for what happened. I believe they absolutely did. The ship that these two guys worked on donated $14,000 to the workers who helped find Beerna. But all this stuff that we're kind of talking about, the effects, right? The fallout from Beerna's murder, it seems as though it only lasted a short time. Because I don't think it took long for girls in ICE.

to start walking alone at night again, talking to strangers. And I think for the most part, it's still very safe to do so compared to, you know, the precautions that we would take here in the U.S. or in many other countries. I think the one thing that has definitely changed is that there are a lot more security cameras throughout downtown Reykjavik. No doubt the CCTV was a big part of this case being solved. It was.

At the very least, this will keep people from attempting this. Well, it might deter them. I don't know if it'll keep people from doing it, but obviously gives the more security cameras you have, the better. I mean, at the least, it's a great deterrence. You can never keep people from doing anything. Detective Grissom told the guardian that he regrets, not responding to Sillus please for help faster.

Although Beirna was most likely dead by the time her mother reported her missing, I think, you know, in his mind, they definitely could have found her faster if he had listened to her from the get-go. Well, you know, I mean, you learn from that. Hopefully, moving forward, they made some adjustments in their policy. Silla told the Guardian that she doesn't like anyone to call the murder Bairna's case. She said, I don't want this evil act to be blended with her name. Bierna was a beautiful soul. She did not deserve this. And I think that's obvious, right?

She didn't deserve it at all. She wasn't doing anything wrong. She went out. She had drinks. She had fun with her friends. And then she walked home. Unfortunately, she met up with a predator. Thomas Olson will be in prison until 2006.

He'll be about 44 years old when he's released. And again, I think as a parent that's, going to be really tough. You know, when that day comes, or even tough now, knowing that it's going to happen in, you know, what, about 15 years or so, I think that's tough because your daughter is gone. You know, she's not going to get to restart her life at 44 gives. This guy will get that chance. I think the only hope is that, you know, whatever rehabilitation measures they have in place, Because the last thing in the world that anyone wants is for this guy to get out and then go back to, you know, a life of crime or hurt somebody else. Which, unfortunately, we see quite a bit.

Over here, we see it a lot because I don't know how much rehabilitation, you know, a lot of our prison systems have. Now, if you only have 25 prisoners per prison, you could probably do a heck of a lot of rehabilitation. rehabilitation work, I would think. I think you probably could. If you got 4,000 or some of those big prisons in California, I don't know what the number is, but how can they possibly have enough hours in the day to try to rehabilitate all these people, not to mention the fact that a lot of these folks are in for life. What is there to rehabilitate?

What's true? You're never getting out. You're there for the duration. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I think at the very least, you know, this. This crime gives, it's an unfortunate reminder. For many people that even in a place where you think you're safe, you may not be.

Yeah, are you relatively safe or you safer in this place versus another? Yeah, you could make that argument, but nobody knows if and when they're going to come into contact with a person who is, you know, determined to do something really horrible. But that's it, Gibbs, for our episode on Thomas Olson. You know, I do like going to other countries to tell the story of some of these cases. It's, it's fun. It's, it's interesting. You and I learn a lot during the research.

It's also very difficult to learn or, and I'm sure I didn't even get them all right, but to try to figure out how to pronounce some of these. they're very tough. Ferguson daughter. Dotter. Dotter. I always thought it was like daughter, but I'm thinking it's more like dot tier, but people will correct me.

We have a lot of fans. Oh, we do. Over in Iceland and Denmark and all those places. They'll let you know. They will. We've got some voicemails. You want to check those out? Let's hear those.

Hey, Mike and Gibby. This is Patrick calling from Winooski, Vermont. I've got a little throwback comment. for you. I was just listening to episode 117, which is the St. Abin murders, I believe, the St. Aubin Massacre,

however you say it. And Gibby described a mullet as party in the front, business in the back, which, just imagining what kind of hairstyle that would be, like wild feathered mullet in the front that covers your eyes and then just

immaculate, high and tight, short in the back. That gave me such joy to picture. And I think at this point, with the amount of episodes you guys have, you have enough to write a book of Gibbyism. If you need somebody to comb through episodes and find all of these beautiful things that Gibby says that bring joy to so many people,

I would be happy to do it for you. But I just wanted to let you guys know that that still has me laughing. So, all right, thanks for all the hard work you do. and keep your own time, take a bite. So I'm sure that you meant to say that exactly the way you did. Absolutely. I've seen pictures of you in high school. You had a real like flock of seagulls type thing going on.

Sweet. It was literally party in the front somehow hanging down and it was all business in the back. You know, hairstylists everywhere. I love that look, man. Hair styles everywhere? You had a bunch of different ones, I'm sure. Yeah, yeah. Write that book.

Yeah, right. That would be funny. Hi, guys. I've been binging your show for about a month now. And I am on the Harvey Robinson case. You guys are talking about how the neighbor had heard the TV going and did not call the police and she had heard it going for three days straight. So now, I know myself, when I was a kid and we would need to go on vacation and just leave the house for a few days, my mom and my grandma and everyone would always leave the radio on and turn it up pretty loud. and also leave a light on in the house. And when I asked why we did this, they said it was to deter burglar. So, you know, say a burglar comes up to the house and they hear the TV on,

they're going to think, oh, no, someone's home, and go somewhere else. So me and myself, if I couldn't get an answer anymore and I heard the TV going, I would absolutely think nothing of it. And maybe that's why they didn't call the cops. Anyways, guys, I really love your show. I am a truck driver from Utah.

and you got to keep me in time. Thank you. That's a good point. I'm sure other people do that as well. It's just not something I thought of while we were doing the episode. I know you have a home alone type thing that you do where you've recorded certain things onto a recorder. And when people come to the door, you'll play them. Yeah, it just plays those messages.

Depending on the circumstances. Yeah. I got that little silhouette of me in the window. Hey, Mike, give me. Wow. Okay. So I have actually. been like one of those weirdos that is like, why are you always listening to podcasts?

Just listen to music like a normal person. And then I started listening to your podcast. So currently I'm listening to the Robert Leroy Anderson episode from January 12th, 2020, only the most recent, and I've just been going back. It's been about three months. I've binge listened to almost everything. So it's been brought to my attention, however, that there was some confusion in regard to pumpkin juice or beer.

The answer is that it's both drinks in the Hogwarts world and the Harry Potter fandom are completely accurate. I just thought maybe you guys would like to know that. Anyways, you guys rocked. Seriously, you've been getting me through so many different life experiences at this point between the pandemic, being a single mom of three kids, which is, you know, it's great. I love it. I think that's what I say when everyone asks.

You guys are the best. Anyway, team both, I guess. That's like a common thing. I don't have a personal choice. You guys both bring personal and different aspects to the aura that you present. And I'm absolutely in love. Thanks again. Anyway, Sue, right around Rockford, Illinois.

You guys are the best. Keep your own time taken. I think Sue would be in Gryffindor. I think you're right. So we garnered a little Harry Potter knowledge. It's all good, man. Yeah. Hey guys, this Jeff calling from Calgary, Alberta, Canada.

Just wanted to say, you know, I've been a friend of yours for a long time, first time calling. I've got quite a few interesting ties to true crime, one of which is a case suggestion for Clifford Olson, the killer of East of British Columbia. He was actually seen on my streets when I was six years old. Then when I was in my late 20s, I actually ended up hanging out with Dave Picton and Willie Picton. And so that's...

But that also kind of got to me and made me think about the episode about David Williams, where you were just talking about his commissary. I just served two years in the federal system, and you only get to spend $750 a year or so. I think he's going to be just eating a lot of noodles. Thank you, guys. Keep up the good work and keep your own time chicken. Easy for you to say. Exactly.

So how much ramen does seven? $150 by you. We think a lot, but you have to spread it out throughout the whole year. But I think they raise the prices. I don't think you're paying what you're paying at the local Piggly Wiggly. I got you. You don't get street prices. No.

You get that inflated. Yeah. I think some money on you. Exactly. I think they inflate the prices anyway. All right. So maybe not much. But we appreciate the knowledge.

So we had some mailbag Gibbs. Stacey Covington sent us a package, a beef, jerky, some gummy bears, a Harley chip. So I gave her daughter some advice on one of her finals, which was to do a podcast. Yeah. And it turned out that she got like an A plus on it. Look at you. Didn't have anything to do with me.

I just gave her advice. I didn't do the podcast. But, hey, I'm glad she got an A. But they, you know, they sent us that. And she wrote a really nice little thank you note, which was super cool. Yeah. Stephen Bobby sent us a huge package of snacks. some jerky as well.

But they also sent a bobblehead of Dorothea, Puente. I see her. Yeah. So, you know, that outfit called Psycho Killer Bobboheads. I now have Gacy is the clown Pogo.

I have BTK and now, Dorothea. And they're all looking right at me. Yeah, I need to get the rest of them. And they look so good on the shelf and they stare right at you from the, from behind me. Thanks for that.

Yeah, I know you dig it. All right, buddy. That is it for another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.