True Crime All The Time - Todd Hodne

Episode Date: December 4, 2023

Many people know of Jerry Sandusky, the Penn State assistant coach who was convicted of child molestation. However, the case of Todd Hodne is not as well-known. Hodne was a former Penn State student and football player who was convicted of raping one student and several other women in the late 70s. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the crimes committed by Todd Hodne. Todd went from a promising football star to a convicted rapist. Prosecutors warned that he was a continuing danger to society, but Hodne was released on parole and went on to murder a man in the late 80s. You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital production See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 361 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. How are you? Hey, I'm doing good. How about you? I'm doing well. How was your Thanksgiving? Hey, it was terrific.

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I would have had to buy a. whole duplicate of what we bought for you. Just from what I eat and then I'd be like wanting to always bring my take home containers with me. Bags, you got bags. That's true. Specialized, um, cooler bags for take home food. I've never seen that before.

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I am ready. We're talking about a guy named Todd Hodney. and I had never heard of this guy. And I was on my phone one day on my ESPN app, right? Something I do every day. I check scores, check news and things like sports news. And they had this article about a guy named Todd Hodney, who was a football player at Penn State back in the 70s.

And I was fascinated reading this article because I had never heard of him, had no idea of him. I mean, you know, most people know Jerry Sandusky. Of course. There's a pretty big case. Yeah, that was a huge case. This case not so well known. Todd Hodney was convicted of raping one student while at Penn State, several other women in the late 70s.

And then he went on to murder. Todd Stephen Hoddeny was born on April 23rd, 1959. He grew up in Wanta, Longtah, Island. And I'm sure I'm not saying that correctly because I very rarely get some of these New York City names right. Yeah, it's probably just like want. Really, just the rest of it means nothing. Exactly. Probably. Todd was a high school football star who attended St. Dominic's High School in Oyster Bay. He was recruited to help improve their football team. Hodney was known for his aggressive of tackling as a linebacker.

But Todd exhibited some concerning behavior from a young age. For example, when he was 14 years old and attending freshman football camp, he threw a knife at another player for teasing him. He missed and no one told the coaches. A little bit of a temper. Yeah, you could say that. I mean, and you would be correct, but, you know, knife throwing. I don't remember that a lot when I was a, when I was a, when I was a,

a kid, people would get upset. There were fisticuffs. Yeah. But I don't remember a lot of people trying to throw knives at me. I remember being at football camp and maybe getting some food thrown at me. Yeah, that would happen. Back and forth. In the ninth grade, Todd brought a knife to school and beat up a senior who challenged him. He bragged about stealing car stereos and committing burglaries. His teammates weren't sure whether to believe him or not. Now, I will say this. I don't know that taking a knife to school in the 1970s was the same as it would be today. I don't think anybody would have been happy about it. No. But today, to take a knife to school, that would be viewed as the expel. Yeah, you'd, that, an expulsion type issue. Right. But this idea of whether to believe someone or not,

right, that came up a lot when you and I were growing up. People told tall tales, you know, they, they, they said they did this or they did that. And it was kind of up to the group or an individual as to whether or not to believe them. You've told me a lot of stories about your younger days. They're all true. I don't know whether to believe half of them. Some of them involved knife throwing, which is a little scary. Just think how I had to get that knife into the school back then.

And I have a K bar. That's a lot of keistering. If you could keister a K bar, you should be. on America's Got Talent or something, although I'm not sure they would let that act on the air. teammate Dave Smith, the son of a police officer, told his dad that Todd was breaking into people's houses. Smith's dad contacted Hodney's local precinct, according to retired officer Don Smith. Hodney was custodialized by the juvenile justice department and required to return the stolen stereos. Todd graduated high school in 1977.

So same year that you did Gibbs, he earned a full athletic scholarship to Penn State, where he enrolled as a business management major. What was high school like in the late 70s? Well, it was a lot like past times at Richmond High. Yeah, that would make a lot of sense, I guess. But again, I wasn't in high school until the 80s. The outlet Newsday reported on a team filled with former high school stars. Hodney suddenly was no longer recognized for his past successes. Like most other freshmen, he rode the bench, his first year at the university.

And I think this is something that a lot of athletes experience. You think about being the star of your team and maybe the star of an entire region of a state. Yeah, sure. You're written about in the paper. And then you go to a big time college program where everybody there was also the star of not only their team, but maybe a region, maybe the whole state, maybe the country. Yeah, they could be even be a bigger star. And so it's sometimes tough to find playing time. According to ESPN, the 1978, 1979 season was when Penn State football became Penn State football.

that year coach Joe Paterno became an American icon. That's what ESPN said. And Penn State since that time, you know, had for many, many years a very storied tradition. And then obviously we know some of the things that came out, right? We mentioned Jerry Sandusky. There were some things that came out about Joe Paterno. And some of those things were very, very rough to hear. Todd only completed his freshman year at Penn State during his sophomore year, he was arrested for rape and was later expelled. It's believed that Todd Hodney committed at least 12 rapes or sexual assaults between 1978 and 1979, although he was not convicted of all of these. But it's a very large number. It is a large number. You know, I was thinking back to that documentary or the case of Billy Miller.

again. Did you see that one? I did. And, you know, that happened close to us on the campus of Ohio State probably, I think it was in the 70s as well, where he committed, you know, a series of sexual assaults. I think it's very hard in some of these instances to know exactly what the true number is. So we said up front, he was convicted of one, but he was thought to have committed at least 12, and you know that number could be way higher. Oh, easily. In the summer of 1978, before he started his sophomore year, Hodney and two friends were arrested for burglarizing a record store. Todd's accomplices were his friends, John Paglioli and Lee Dorfman. In their 22 coverage of the case, ESPN did not name Dorfman, but his name was published in a 1978 article by the Center

daily times. And apparently this John Pagioly, that's how I'm going to say his name, was the kid that Todd once threw the night at when they were younger. He invited John to spend the weekend with him in state college, which is where Penn State University is. He mentioned that his other friend Dorfman would also be there. At the time, Todd was living off campus with other student athletes. He had plans to go to a Rolling Stones concert and have a cookout. And it was reported that Todd showed his friends how to steal steaks from the supermarket. How do you do that? I'm assuming, based on videos I've seen, people shove steaks down their pants or, you know, things like that, inside a coat, a big coat.

Why would you want to shove a steak down your front of your pants? So that you could get out of the supermarket undetected? Now your steak's going to taste like balsat. Well, number one, I'm assuming it was wrapped. And number two, maybe you need to change your hygiene regimen. On June 18th, 1978, the three young men went to a record store on College Avenue. Todd had been stealing records since he started college, I guess. The store was closed, but he still wanted to go in.

John told the SPN decades later, I didn't stop Todd because I couldn't stop Todd. If you tried to stop Todd, he would hurt you. You couldn't say no to him. And he could convince you to do things you wouldn't normally do. So let's break that down a little bit. Now, you have in Todd Hodney, a big time athlete. I'm sure he was fit, strong. Yeah.

We've all known people like that. I'm sure you were that guy when you were younger who maybe you went along with because you knew you couldn't change. their minds and you couldn't do anything to them physically or they would just stomp you. Well, I was never in that situation, but I'm sure there are many people were. Yeah. No, I know I was in that situation. I wasn't the guy who could beat up everyone at 3 o'clock every day after school. Yeah. Remember that movie? My bodyguard? Yeah. Although when I was in the eighth grade, I did have a friend who could drive. So make of that what you will.

They kicked in the window and they were in the middle of stealing $30 and quarters and $800 in merchandise when they were caught. Two employees from another store saw them and called the police. Okay, $800 in merchandise in 1978. They were still in a lot of stuff. They were. How much was an album back in 1978? I have no idea because I was just a wee lad, but. Yeah, it wasn't that much though.

I'm just trying to figure out why would you waste your time trying to steal $30 worth of quarters when you could probably grab a little bit more of that bigger merch. Well, I'm assuming that they would have used that in the vending machine. I remember when I went to college, that was a big deal. They have quarters, you know, to get snacks and a pop or something like that. Dorfman and Pagioly were arrested. But Todd shrugged off the police and he ran away. So they used the term shrugged off.

It almost makes it sound to me. like they just couldn't stop him. He just got away from him. But he came to the station the next day and said he wanted to visit his friends. He used the name Tom Harris, but then admitted he was Todd Hodney. He said he was a football player and didn't want his name to get out there. An officer informed him he matched the description of the man who fled the robbery. Todd was arrested and photographed. On June 21st, Lee Dorfman and Todd Hodney were charged with criminal conspiracy, burglary and theft. John was charged with criminal conspiracy theft and receiving stolen property. So, you know, some pretty serious crimes there. But Hodney's crimes escalated that summer.

On August 18, 1978, a woman identified only as Karen returned home to find her state college apartment empty. Her roommate had gone away for the weekend. Karen was sexually assaulted at knife point by a man who entered through her apartment window in the middle of the night on August 19. During the attack, the man asked Karen, do you recognize my voice? So any sexual assault is scared. But then when you hear what some of these perpetrators say to their victim, it almost adds like another level of fear. Yeah, when you say, do you recognize my voice?

What does that mean? Yeah. if you do, do you want to say yes or should you say no? Or in your mind is, you know, are you going through as this someone I know? And what's that going to do to you afterwards? You're already going to have to deal with the trauma associated with the sexual assault. But now are you going to be able to trust anybody because you don't know if this was somebody you knew or a complete stranger?

The police tried to collect fingerprints and other evidence from her apartment, but she was told they didn't have enough to go to court. There were no further leads for months. On August 21st, 1978, it was reported that Todd had been deleted from the Penn State roster after his arrest. As reported by the Center Daily Times, Joe Peterno said it was possible he could return if he has a good academic year and if he proves to us that it was a mistake. meaning the involvement in the burglary.

At the beginning of the 1978 fall semester, 21-year-old Betsy Sailor put out an ad seeking a female roommate. She lived in the basement of a home near the university. On September 13th, the man called her and told her that his girlfriend needed a place to stay. He asked if he could come by to look at the apartment. Betsy said she was going out and wouldn't be home for a while. Betsy left at 10 p.m. on September 13th to go to the store to buy cat food. When she returned, her landlord told her that her kittens must have knocked something over because she heard a noise in the apartment.

Betsy saw that the phone book was open on her bedroom floor. She did some things around her apartment before she remembered that she had to study. When she entered her bedroom a second time to get her books, the lamp didn't turn on. And it was at that moment that a man grabbed her, covered her, covered her mouth and held a knife to her throat. Betsy told ESPN that she didn't scream or say anything. She decided that nothing was worth more than her life and that she would go into what she called information gathering mode. She wanted to remember as many details as she could, even though she was blindfolded. And this gives me chills, Gibbs, when I hear things like this, I mean, obviously this was many years later where she's talking about it, but to think that she's going through this harrowing

experience, but has the thought that she has to gather as much information as possible to be able to later tell the police, to me is absolutely amazing. Yeah, I don't know how some people can do that. Yeah, I think some people are frozen with fear, unable to really think about anything. And then other people it's not that they're not fearful but their mind goes to a different place and hers went to i got to figure out every detail i can about this guy yeah maybe it can stop him from doing something like this ever again yeah she could tell that he was a large man she was able to see the attacker's thumb and therefore she knew that he was white she was able to see that he was wearing jeans and sneakers. When he spoke to her, she recognized his voice from their earlier phone conversation.

She told him he could take her jewelry, but he said he wasn't going to do that. He told Betsy, I'm going to rape you. Afterwards, she called the police to report the rape. Investigators found the knife and an unscrewed light bulb from the lamp. They were able to obtain fingerprints from the light bulb, a knife left behind by the rapist. and a tube of eye cream in Betsy's cabinet. So there's a lot of evidence there, at least in the way of fingerprint evidence. However, weeks passed with no arrest.

One night in the fall of 1978, a student named Adrian Reisman was forced into her car by a large man as she was leaving work. He bound her wrist and pushed her inside the vehicle. She was able to get her hands free, get the doors open and scream for help. The man ran and she called the police. She never saw his face.

But when she later read details about Todd Hodney, she felt certain that he was her attacker. Probably all just came right back, you know, at that moment when she read that. Well, here's the thought that, you know, went through my head. You know, we talked about Todd being this super physical athlete. You know, this guy was probably a massive dude.

I think anytime you have like a physical trait that is out of the ordinary, it's going to stick out. It's going to be easier for people to recognize you or describe you. You know, if you're 510, 165 pounds, well, how many people, how many men are 510, 165 pounds? A lot. A lot. Yeah. Just going to blend in. Or six foot, 200, you know, or whatever it is. But if you're, and I don't know exactly what he was, but if you're 6-2-250 all muscle, okay, that's going to stick out. In October, a woman identified as Susan, put an ad in the paper seeking a roommate for her state college apartment. She spoke to one man and told him she'd call him back later because she was going out. When she returned, she saw that some of her plants had been knocked over.

when she tried to turn on her bedroom light, it wouldn't work. The attacker was hiding in her closet. He covered her head with a shirt and raped her at knife point. And I think the other thing is here Gibbs, there's no doubt he had a pretty specific M.O. Unscrewing light bulbs, using a knife, calling the victims ahead of time, pretending to, you know, be someone maybe looking for an apartment. Yeah, it was his thing to do, right?

It worked for him. That's why he kept on doing it again and again. I'm sure. I'm sure. Afterwards, the man called her repeatedly and threatened to return. Susan told her father, who worked for a local phone company, investigators were able to trace the calls to a dorm in Hamilton Hall, where Todd Hodney and his roommate were living.

So we talked a little bit about fear in one of the other cases. There's always going to be fear. In one of them, it was because. of what the attacker said to the victim while he was there. Now the attacker is calling the victim afterwards and threatening to come back and do it again. I cannot imagine the level of fear that this woman must have been experiencing. I don't know how you could stay there. It would be pretty intense.

Yeah. Investigators noticed the similarities between the three cases and now they had a name. Todd's prints were already on file, so the police requested that the FBI compare his prints to the ones found at the sailor crime scene. On October 13, 1978, the state college police were notified that the prints matched. That day, investigators contacted Joe Paterno to try to locate Todd. Paterno said he would try to find him. Todd eventually turned himself in on the morning of October 16th. Lead investigator Dwayne Muser speculated to investigation discovery that Paterno got an attorney for Todd and that the attorney advised him to turn himself in.

Todd was charged with the rape of Betsy Saylor. Muser questioned him about the other cases. Todd seemed to have an alibi for all the dates in question, but all of his alibis were just lies. He tried to convince a friend to vouch for him, but the friend refused. Todd's roommate confirmed that he owned a knife, similar to the one found in Betsy Saylor's apartment. Todd admitted that the knife was his, but said it was stolen and he was innocent. Of course. Because that's what you have to do. Yeah. I'm going to say, oh, that's my knife. And I also used it. You're going to say, yeah, it's my knife, but somebody stole that.

Yeah, I've been looking for that. Yeah, a few months back, I've been looking for it. apparently Karen's roommate was dating a football player at the time Todd was arrested. He mentioned that they had run into Todd at a bar a few weeks before she was raped. Karen told ESPN in 2021 that she believed Joe Paterno was involved. Now, was involved was in quotation marks. She explained, he knew who I was. He knew the police were interviewing me. the trial itself, I was discouraged from going to and not necessarily by the police.

And I'm trying to remember how all that went as well. She said that Joe Paterno called her after Todd was arrested and said hello to her on campus. She said, but the impression I got was he knew it was that guy, Hodney, but he wanted to probe and see if I knew that it was him. She told the SPN that the call was kind of an admission. that his football player did it and he was expecting me to move forward. Okay. You know, Joe Paterno was like this beloved figure.

It was. And he was an amazing coach. It later came out that, you know, he knew some things, maybe possibly in relation to the, the whole Jerry Sandusky stuff. And, you know, his tenure at Penn State obviously didn't end the way that, that he would have liked it. And I don't think he's remembered by some the way that he would have liked to have been remembered. Well, of course not.

Yeah. Those were some tough years there during the investigation. Yeah. And with him, you know, not being the coach anymore. And then, no, he has since passed away. But when you hear this, it doesn't sound great. No. If it actually went down this way.

It makes it seem almost as if he was more. worried about his football program than this woman. Well, I think there are times when that is the case that it's more about the program or the player and concerns for that than the victim or the alleged victim. And that's a shame. Yeah. Betsy testified at Todd's preliminary hearing on October 25th. Several football players came to the hearing.

she felt that they were trying to intimidate her, but it didn't work. She testified in detail and described the sneakers her attacker was wearing. They matched the ones Todd was wearing in court that day. That's not good for Todd. Well, and it doesn't make him sound very bright. I don't know if he really was. Well, I don't know how bright he was either, but not only did you not get rid of evidence, you actually wore the evidence into court.

Karen, Susan, and Adrian, the other victims, wanted to file charges against Todd, but they were told they didn't have enough evidence to do so. And I would think that would be heartbreaking for these women. I would think so too. They went through a terrible ordeal, and they're so very sure that it was at the hands of Todd Hodney, but police are telling them,

you might be right, but there's nothing we can do where prosecutors are telling them, we just don't have enough evidence. Yeah, I mean, it's sad. I know they really want to move forward with it, but, you know, if the prosecutor's not willing to take it on, there's a reason why. Todd didn't show up for a disciplinary hearing with the university on December 7th. Betsy Saylor attended and described what happened. Todd Hodney was expelled from the university that day.

Well, if you don't show up for your hearing, that's what's going to happen. Well, at the very least, you could say they did not mess around. And I'm sure him not showing up wasn't a good thing, him being charged. But also Betsy showing up and describing what happened, you can't have that type of person attending your count. Todd's trial started on March 1st, 1979. He was charged with rape. involuntary, deviant sexual intercourse, burglary, and prohibitive offensive weapons.

Nice little laundry list. Yeah. Betsy testified about the rape once again. She testified that the suspect left her bedroom three times. The defense questioned whether she could have escaped, but she said she was afraid and felt that her life was in danger. The attacker said he would kill her if she made a noise. And I know that.

the defense has to try to do their job. But when you hear some of these questions or some of these accusations that they make against sexual assault victims on the stand, it kind of makes your blood boil a little bit. You know, well, couldn't you have escaped? That's pretty insulting. What's that got to do with the fact that your client raped me? Yeah, exactly. Betsy said that she knew with certainty that Todd Hodney was the rapist when he spoke at trial.

She recognized his voice. Todd's alibi was that he went to a frat party on campus that night. His friend Tony Capizoli testified that he went to the party with Todd and they returned to their dorm at 12.30 a.m. But he admitted that he wasn't with him constantly that night. Detective Dwayne Muser testified. that Todd told him he walked his girlfriend home at 3 a.m. after the party. But Todd's ex-girlfriend, Susan, testified that she left the party with her roommate at 1 a.m. and didn't recall seeing Todd that evening.

You know, one thing you probably shouldn't do is make your ex-girlfriend part of your alibi. Yeah, probably not a smart thing. Especially when it's not true. Exactly. Todd said in court that he had trouble pinpointing the night of the incident because the police were hitting him with a lot of dates. Gibbs, he got confused. There was too many dates being thrown around. That happens, I guess.

The defense argued that there was no direct evidence that Todd was at Betsy's apartment and they called the study of fingerprints an art, not a science. according to the Center Daily Times. Well, that's just not true. We know better than that. They know better than that. Well, maybe they were trying to say that, you know, one person could see a match in fingerprints and another person may not see it. I get it from that standpoint, but there is some science to it.

Todd Hodney was found guilty of rape, involuntary, deviant sexual intercourse and burglary on March 3rd, 1979. So this was not a long trial. Just took a couple of days. The judge allowed him to be released on bail pending a pre-sentencing investigation. In 2022, ESPN reported that three of Todd's former teammates were called to testify for the defense. The three men met outside coach Joe Paterno's office before trial. He wanted to know what they were going to say.

Sounds like he was really vestive. in this process. Yeah. Yeah. And again, this doesn't make him, you know, look bad like maybe the call to one of the victims does. That would depend on why he wanted to know what they were going to say and whether or not he was coaching them on what they should say. According to a report from Detective Dwayne Muser, he asked witness Gary Petach for an interview. But Petak said that Paterno told the players not to speak about the case without his permission. Petak told the SPN that they asked Joe what they were going to do. And he told them to tell the truth.

However, witness Tony Capizoli told the SPN that Paterno told him Todd Hodney is guilty. And if you testify for him, you're off the team. Wow, there you go. But how does he know he's guilty? Well, he couldn't at that point because the trial wasn't concluded yet. But it does kind of fit the narrative that he's really looking out for the program or how the program is going to be viewed. So he's already considering Todd Hodney guilty and he doesn't want any of his players

to be in line with him. Tony said that he didn't take paterno seriously and said he was going to tell the truth. after he testified, he went home for a few days. When he returned, his things had been moved to the basement of the gym. And Paterno told him he was off the team. So he wasn't kidding about that when he said, if you testify, you're off the team. ESPN also reported that Hodney was represented by Bob Mittinger, a former football player who played for Paterno when he was an assistant coach. Middinger helped Penn State players who were going pro with their contracts.

and he taught business law. Mittinger had represented players and helped them get out of trouble in the past. Sounds like the school's go-to guy. Yeah, and I don't know if that's all that out of the ordinary, that programs have, you know, go-to people. Alumni. Alumni, attorneys, what have you. Todd returned to Wanta, Long Island after his trial.

He worked for his father's flooring refinishing business while he, he awaited sentencing. According to investigation discovery, local law enforcement was upset because they worried Todd would attack again. And they turned out to be right. And I kind of thought that was a little bit strange. You know, here's this guy who's been convicted of rape,

burglary, you know, all of these charges. And yet he's just allowed to go home while he's awaiting his sentence. Seems a little. dangerous. Yeah, it is. Not to mention the fact that right three other women came forward and said that he sexually assaulted them as well. Now, they couldn't prove it in court. No, but they should look at that. You would think. You would think. On April 21st, 1979, 23 year old Anne Wright was raped as she was walking home to Wongta from a night out in Long Island. She was hit on the head with a club-like object bound and threatened with a knife. On April 23rd, 52-year-old

Georgette Perkle was raped when she opened the door of her house. In Oyster Bay Cove, a man entered her house posing as a representative of the East Norwich Police Boys Club. He locked her 79-year-old mother in a closet and then raped her at knife point. On April 30th, 20-year-old Barbara Johnson was raped while she was. out jogging in Beth Page between Wanta and Oyster Bay, she heard someone coming up behind her. The man ran up to her, put his hand over her mouth, and threatened her with a knife. He dragged her to the woods, tied her hands up, and raped her. On May 12th, a 21-year-old woman was attacked as she walked to her car. After Roosevelt Field Mall in Long Island,

the suspect forced her inside the car, forced her to drive to a park where he bound her with a cord, and forced her to perform oral sex at knife point. On May 22nd, 22-year-old Denise O'Brien was raped when she left her Roslin apartment to make a phone call. On May 31st, a man attempted to rape a 16-year-old girl who was home alone in Baldwin, New York. He entered the house by pretending to be. be a painter looking for work. He tied her with shoelaces, threatened her with a knife, and stole a small amount of money from the home. She fought him off and screamed as he fled. A neighbor who was a New York City officer saw him running away, chased him and caught him.

The suspect was, of course, identified as Todd Hodney. So pretty amazing that this police officer was able to chase down this big time athlete, catch him, subdue him. So that was pretty amazing. But let's go back, Gibbs, and look at the trail of destruction. Pretty big trail that Todd left after being convicted of a very serious sexual assault. And, you know, as we went through it, the thought that was running through my mind was these were all happening. in very rapid succession. They were in a very small amount of time. And then for him to go after a 16-year-old

just concretes the fact that he is a huge monster. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But it also validates the concern that local law enforcement had. And how could he not have been a suspect at some point, right? They were going to figure out a connection to him, I would have thought because they had this big concern that here's this guy, he's come back, he's already been convicted. Now all of a sudden we have all these sexual assaults.

You know they were going to look at Todd at some point. Oh yeah. They'd have to. Todd was connected to five unsolved sexual assaults in Nassau County, Long Island. On June 1st, Todd was arraigned on two counts of burglary and robbery. On June 11th, he was re-arrested. and formally charged with four counts of rape and one count of sodomy. The new charges were filed after an Oyster Bay investigator, contacted all the county's precincts, and asked for information on sexual assaults that were similar to the Georgette Perkle case. The suspected crimes occurred between January and May 1979.

All the victims were threatened with a small knife and had their hands tied and their eyes covered, before they were raped. Several incidents occurred when Todd was out on bail. So the one thing that he did do is select his victims from different areas, which would have made it a little tougher for for police to connect him. But I think in this instance, the police did a really good job of reaching out to other precincts and saying, hey, here's what we have. Let me know what you have. Let me know what you have that, you know, has the same M.O. The same profile. And that's how they started to piece things together. Because we've often talked about how, you know, different entities don't want to work together. No, but in this case, they did. So. And it worked out. Yeah. On September 24th,

179, Todd Hodney was sentenced to three to seven years in prison for the rape of Penn State student Batsy Sailor. He received one three to seven year. term for each offense to run concurrently and another one to three year sentence for the summer 1978 burglary. So I have two thoughts. Number one, it took a really long time for him to be sentenced. And as we know and we'll discuss further, that had some really big ramifications. But also look at the sentence he received three to seven years, multiple sentence. but they were to be served concurrently. So what's the difference?

Gibbs, if you look up slap on the wrist in the dictionary. Oh, yeah. This should, this should be next to it. There's a big picture of this. That is horrible.

It really is. I mean, if you're Betsy Saylor, what do you think that this is all that this man is going to get for the hell that he put me through? Unfortunately, you know, back then in the 70s and a different point.

in time, the sentences for these type of sexual crimes just, they, they just weren't tough enough. No, I think the justice system just wasn't fair at all with them. So you're, you're telling me that you're going to get one to three for burglary and three to seven for rape. Yeah. That doesn't add up. It doesn't. And I'm not saying either one of them is good, but obviously one of them is much, much worse than the other. In mid-September, Todd entered a plea deal for the rapes that occurred while he was out on bail.

He pleaded guilty to two counts of rape, two counts of sexual assault, two counts of sexual abuse, and one count of attempted second-degree robbery. He originally faced 13 different charges. It's a lot. Well, it's also a heck of a plea deal. It is. And on October 22nd, 1979, Todd was sentenced to seven to 21st, two years. to be served concurrently with his three to seven year sentence. Well, this is kind of a messed up sentence.

Yeah. I mean, it just seems like a joke. Now, I'm not saying seven to 21 years in prison is nothing. But when he was facing originally 13 charges and then, you know, he enters this plea deal. Okay, he gets seven to 21, but it's concurrent with his three to seven. So what could it possibly mean? An extra four years, possibly? Maybe. For all of that? Now, if you told me he was going to do 21 years, I'd probably say it's still not enough, but I wouldn't be as outraged. But there's no guarantee. Todd's attorney Martin Silberg told the paper Newsday that Todd lived a normal life until he started using drugs. He said, I never came across a guy like this before. A real Jackal, and high. So he changed after he started using drugs. We've heard this before. Well, and it does happen to some people. But could it also be an easy out? Yeah. To say, well, I would have never done any of that if I hadn't

started using drugs. Well, maybe so, maybe not. In November 1979, Hodney was evaluated by psychologist Ed Perry, who found that he showed hollow remorse and tried to project the blame for his troubles onto others. He assumed little responsibility for his crimes. He didn't seem to have any sense of loyalty towards others and had a low tolerance for being denied his own way. Dr. Perry believed he would need to be supervised. He described Todd as manipulative and said he would take advantage of people who were physically and emotionally weaker. So I understand that. Some of that you wouldn't have even needed to evaluate him to know. And look at all the sexual crimes he committed.

He was manipulative. He took advantage of people who were physically weaker. Yeah. Than he was. I mean, all these things that were said about him, that's a problem. Oh, yeah. I mean, these are not good traits. No remorse.

Doesn't take responsibility. Has a low tolerance for being denied his own. way. That's a problem for sure. Because we don't get our way, right, all the time in life. Most people have to learn how to deal with that. How are you going to handle it when things don't go your way? Well, apparently, Todd Hodney couldn't handle it and just took things. Yeah. Yeah. Todd served three years in Pennsylvania and four years in New York, starting in 1982. According to Newsday, New York gave him three years credit towards his sentence. It was reported that Todd was a model inmate for seven years.

He took computer classes, attended therapy, and seemed well adjusted. In his yearly parole hearings, Todd admitted to the board that he raped one woman in Pennsylvania and two in New York, which he pleaded guilty to. he did not admit to the additional rapes and tried to explain the attempted rapes by saying that he stopped if a woman resisted him women everywhere just threw up in their mouth they did because it's almost like he's saying hey i'm a good guy i stopped yeah when when they started resisting i really thought they didn't want me to do this i stopped it's sickening it is sickening in The 1886, the parole board voted unanimously to release Hodney, despite pleas from prosecutors to keep him in prison. Prosecutor Francis Quigley wrote to the board as reported by Newsday.

Hodney is an extremely dangerous, potentially homicidal criminal who presents the gravest threat to society. Former prosecutor John Collins wrote, per ESPN, I have been a prosecutor for nearly 30 years. I have prosecuted serial killers and capital cases. Todd Hodney to this day remains among the three most dangerous, physically imposing and ruthless excuses for a human being I have ever faced in court. Okay. In 30 years,

that man went up against a lot of really bad people. Yes, I've seen a few things here and there. And he is saying that Todd Hodney is one of the three worst he ever faced. But what I want to talk about is the parole board. You have all these prosecutors, people writing in saying, you should not let this guy out. He's dangerous. But then you have his prison record, right? He's seen as a model inmate.

He attended therapy. It was thought that he was reformed. So they're weighing all of this and they voted to parole him. But I just go back to seven years. Gibbs. Way too short, man. Seven years for even just what he admitted to. Yeah.

Not all of the things that he's thought to have done. Nope. Just what he's admitted to seven years is a joke. It really is. It's insulting. Todd was released from prison on May 2nd, 1986. He returned to Long Island and started working for his family's business. He attended therapy.

for several months and started dating a woman. He moved in with her, but was evicted when the woman's landlord found out he was living there illegally. And I just wonder what, if anything, she knew about his past. What if she do something? Because in 1986, you couldn't just Google someone. No, you could not. And at the snap of a finger, learn a lot about someone.

You had to really do some digging. In February 1987, Todd admitted to his therapist that he started smoking crack. He eventually lost his job and stopped attending therapy. Oh, the 1980s and crack. Yeah. Yeah. It was something all right. But are we in for the Jekyll and Hyde that someone talked about?

On August 11th, 1987, Todd called a taxi to pick him up at a white castle in hunting New York. First of all, he must have been smoking crack if he's eating at White Castle. Those can taste good. They can, but they have some really bad after effects. They do. For most people. Yeah, I think they're the original sliders. Yeah, exactly. The cab driver was 32-year-old Jeffrey Hirsch. Hirsch moved back to Long Island earlier that year after working as a traveling salesman for Coca-Cola. While he was searching for a more permanent career, he got a job as a cab driver to support his wife and four children.

Hirsch picked up his passenger at 11.20 p.m. and radioed the night manager. He was supposed to drop the passenger off a few blocks away and was supposed to radio in after he completed the trip. It should only have taken four minutes. But Hirsch never called. His taxi was found behind the Walt Whitman mall, a quarter mile from the restaurant at 11.35 p.m.

Hirsch was unconscious in the back seat. He had been choked in an attempted robbery and was in critical condition. He was taken to the hospital and died on August 16. So 1987, right, if you wanted to get from point A to point B and you didn't have your own car, there was no Uber, there was no lift. You called a friend, you took the bus. or in some instances you called a cab. Yeah.

How you got around. And how horrible for this guy, right? He's just out trying to make money to support his wife and four children. And he picks up the wrong guy. Police dogs tracked Todd down and found him hiding in a bush. Initially, Todd was charged with unauthorized use of a taxi and released on $25 bail. $25. It's a joke, man.

No, I, you know, I get it. They weren't sure that he was connected. Unauthorized use of a taxi. I don't even know what that is. I'm thinking maybe what they're trying to say here is that because he didn't pay for the ride, it's unauthorized. Okay. I get that.

Basically, like all my meals here have been unauthorized. They've been authorized by me against my will or against my better judgment. I don't know. It just kind of seems strange. I've never heard that. Unauthorized use of a taxi, but you're probably right. The issue is you have the taxi driver who's dead. The taxi is found not where this guy was supposed to be dropped off, but they must not have known that to charge him only with that and release him on $25 bail. Todd told the police that he was attacked by Hirsch and defended himself.

The hospital initially diagnosed Hirsch as a child. an overdose victim, which is partially why I think he received this lesser charge. Two days after the attack, Todd's parole officer came for a visit. Todd had bruises and a cut on his face. He said he wouldn't write Todd up for an unauthorized use of a vehicle, but reminded him he had to report all contact with law enforcement. It's almost like people didn't want to challenge him. I don't think they did his entire life. I think he was a big guy. he was physically imposing and probably a lot of people were scared of Todd Hodney

but Todd's brother told the officer that he's lying so this officer spoke to the police and Todd was charged with murder after Jeffrey Hirsch died Todd married his girlfriend listed in one Newsday article as Maureen at the start of his trial his daughter was born while he was awaiting trial Todd's trial started on May 24th, 1988. ADA John Collins told the jury that Todd suffocated Jeffrey Hirsch.

After Hirsch picked him up, his motive was robbery. Hersh's money was found in the duffel bag Todd was carrying that night. Defense attorney Ernest Peace argued that Todd was defending himself. After he and Hirsch got into a fight over cocaine, they claimed that Hirsch stabbed Hodney. Peace said Todd was a victim. of the cocaine blizzard that's affecting so many of our neighbors. I haven't heard that in a long time.

Well, I mentioned crack, but obviously cocaine was huge in the 1980s. Not for me because, you know, I was still kind of a kid, but I know you rode that White Mountain quite a bit. No, no, no, I was a good guy. I was a good guy. Oh, that one cracked you up, though, didn't it? It did. But what is this defense attorney doing?

Right. He's trying to draw from this plight. You know, everybody's using cocaine. People are getting hurt by it. That's what happened to my client. He also argued that Todd had a job, well-off parents and a fiancee. So he had no motive to rob Hirsch. Okay. You can make that argument, but people who have jobs, people who have well-off parents and fiancés commit crimes all the time. every day. Yeah, I don't see how that's really a defense. If he was doing crack or any other types of drugs, then he had a motive to want money. Collins told the jury that a witness near the Walt Whitman Mall would testify about how they witnessed the attack. Additionally, Hirsch had no alcohol or drugs in his body, which really discredited the defense's argument. The jury learned that the pressure

applied to his neck, damaged his carotid artery, broke a bone, and cut off the flow of oxygen to his head. Now, do you think that that would be easier to do if you were a big football player like Todd Hodney? Yeah. He was strong. He was strong. Not to say that other people couldn't do it, but would it be easier for someone who's really strong to choke someone. And I would say, yeah, would have to be. As reported by Newsday, witness Robert Gruber testified that he was watching TV in his bedroom on August 11, 1987, just after 11 p.m. He heard voices coming from the street. He looked out the window and saw a cab. He heard banging, followed by a voice from far away, saying, help me. He went outside and walked towards the cab. He saw two bodies falling out the doors. He called out what's going on?

A distant voice said again, help me. He got closer and saw a man in the back with his arms wrapped around the man in front. He asked again, what's going on? And the bigger man who was holding the man in front said, he tried to rob me call 911. He got his wife to call 911. Then he ran back outside. The larger man said he stabbed me.

Get bandages. So Gruber went inside to get a first aid kit. when he returned, the larger man was banging on the back door. Hirsch was in a seated position with his cheek resting on the top of the backseat and his head bent at an unnatural angle. The man told him, I think I killed him. Gruber tried to give the man the first aid kid, but he said, get away from me. He looked at Gruber said, I'm sick of all this shit.

Got in the cab and drove away. Gruber identified the man he saw that night as Todd Hodney. It's a crazy story. It is. But you know, the first thing that ran through my mind was if you come up upon a situation like this where there's two people involved, how do you know who's the good guy and who's the bad guy? You have a man who's trying to choke another man, but that man who's doing the choking says,

this guy tried to rob me, tried to kill me, he stabbed me. It's all perception, right? Yeah. And you have to be really careful. I mean, what if this guy came out of his house and had a gun? And he viewed this situation and made a decision on who he thought was the threat. And it later turned out that he was completely wrong. Yeah.

Wow. If he shot someone who later turned out to be the innocent person, he's now going to jail. Yes. So it's just kind of a cautionary tale. You have to be really careful in those scenarios. Inmate Michael Salzano testified that he had seen Jeffrey Hirsch smoke crack. Salzano was serving a nine-month sentence for parole violation. He and Hodney were housed in the same cell block. And I tell you, every time I hear that, it always makes me question the credibility of that person. Yeah, you have to. And how could a jury not? I would hope they would question it as well. So this guy just happens to be housed with Hodney, but somehow at some point saw Jeffrey Hirsch smoking crack. Salzano asserted his Fifth Amendment rights, but under further questioning, said he and Hirsch talked about where to get crack pipes. Because you got to have a good crack

pipe, you know. Do you? I don't think so. I don't think so either. I remember seeing videos of people like didn't they smoke crack out of like apples or all kinds of different things or is that just pot? I don't know. I don't really know how you smoke crack. So I probably shouldn't talk about it too much. And you don't want to know. No, I really don't. If Whitney Houston taught me anything, it's that crack is whack. That's for sure. Todd Hodney then took the stand and told the jury, he killed Hirsch in self-defense. He testified that they got into a dispute because Hirsch claimed Todd owed him money for cocaine. Hirsch grabbed the knife out of Todd's bag.

He testified per newsday. I went over it a million times. Was he threatening me or not? I don't know. Still, he was holding it right there. I made a grab for the knife. They ended up in the back seat with his arms around Hirsch. Hirsch went limp.

He thought he was faking it. He held on to him for 20, 30 seconds. When he let go, he realized Hirsch was dead. Todd said, I couldn't believe that this was what had happened. I couldn't believe that somebody could die so easily, that he died so easily. He explained that he fled in the taxi because he panicked and thought no one would believe his story. That might be the only true part of anything that he said. That's true.

Not that it couldn't have happened that way. Yeah, but unlikely with him. Yeah. Well, I think when it comes out that, you know, Hirsch didn't have any drugs in his system, it just seems to make it less believable, right? People are talking about smoking crack with him, trying to get crack pipes, doing cocaine, that he was on cocaine. Well, he didn't have any of that in his system. No.

Under cross-examination, Todd said he told the police, he and Hirsch had once free-based cocaine together. He said that on August 14th, he told his parole officer, he used cocaine the day before the incident. So is it convenient that the guy who happened to come pick him up in the cab is a guy who he had done cocaine with before? That seems so strange to me. It's bizarre for sure. I mean, when you talk about coincidence, when you talk about what makes sense and what doesn't, I think this kind of has to go in the no sense column or, you know, less sense or whatever you want say it. Todd's parole officer Leonard Smith confirmed that Todd admitted to using cocaine on August 10th and that he got into a fight with Hirsch over cocaine. Todd told him he called a cab to go out to buy

cocaine. However, at trial, he testified that he called the cab to go to a restaurant to meet his wife. Okay, so we got some conflicting stories. That's never good for the defendant. It's not. Todd said that Hirsch recognized him. He thought Hersh's name. name was Bob. And he said he owed him $20 from an earlier transaction. Todd told his parole officer that Bob pulled his knife out of his bag and there was a struggle. He said he put Bob in a chokehold. However, Todd testified that he didn't remember if he put his arms around Hirsch. So he's either lying to someone, lying to everyone, or he was so drugged out of his mind that he doesn't really remember what happened.

That can happen. I will take your word for it. In his closing argument, Ernest Peace told the jury that the evidence supported Todd's story and that Hershey's broken bone and damaged artery could be explained by him hitting his neck on the sea, door, or floor. He emphasized that Todd had no motive to rob him because he earned $40 a day at work,

had $1,500 in savings, was engaged to someone who made $300, $150 a week and they had $5,000 in savings together. Is it not possible for someone to be so wrapped up into drugs that they need to find money from outside sources because they don't want their significant other to know that they're spending all this money, to know that, you know, they're doing all these drugs. Very possible. I would say so absolutely.

ADA Collins argued that Todd had told eight different stories. and that $37 was found in his pants pockets. When added to the $43 found in the cab, it matched Hershey's total income for the day. It's a little damning that it's exactly matches. Not looking good. So again, would that be a coincidence that he just happens to have $37 exactly in his pocket?

No. On June 8, 1988, Todd Hodney was found guilty of felony murder, intentional murder, robbery and unauthorized use of a motor vehicle. It's so strange that last one, you know, when you compare it to the three before it. Oh, of course. Yeah.

It's like, why even worry about that? On July 20th, 1988, Todd was sentenced to 25 years to life. Todd said in court is quoted by Newsday, I've done a lot of things to hurt a lot of people more than any man should do in a lifetime.

It makes it difficult to look in a mirror. sometimes. As to the events of that night, I had no intent to hurt Mr. Hirsch. I had no intent to rob Mr. Hirsch. I didn't mean to do it. So what is he saying? I'm a piece of shit. I know I'm a piece of shit, but I didn't do this. That's what he said. Yeah, it was self-defense. Todd explained, he used a fake name that night because he worried the police would treat him unfairly if they knew about his record. He also didn't think that he was given a fair evaluation by the jury. Well, show me one defendant who's convicted who believes that the jury got it right. Yeah.

Very few, if none, right? Todd spent the rest of his life in prison. Eventually, his case faded from the public eye and was overshadowed by the Jerry Sandusky case. According to the SPN, Todd shed some light on his thoughts and motive. at his final parole hearing in 2019. He said, on the outside, I was the All-American kid. I was given a full scholarship. I had colleges coming to see me in high school, offering to buy me cars, to go to school, to give me money.

I chose Penn State and did very well there the first semester and to understand what happened from here. I actually have to go back to the decisions I made when I was 12 or 13 or even younger. The football was everything. Myself worth. It was who I was. It was also where I expressed, which you might deem negative emotions.

I never dealt with anything in my life. And I stored it up and turned it into anger on the football field. And it made me a very good football player. When I first started playing, I wasn't very aggressive. And they taught me to channel my emotions and become where you don't have empathy for people. The other team is your enemy. and it's your job to destroy them.

So I started to develop at a very young age. My view of being a man was that you didn't show emotion. I had older brothers. If I cried in front of them, they made fun of you. So I really didn't have any other coping mechanism other than you just internalize it and bring it on to the football field. He said a lot there. He did.

And I'm not saying that he's 100% wrong or not telling him. not telling the truth. I think for many athletes, the fact that they excel at a particular sport is a lot of their self-worth. Yes, I agree. Now, I don't know what this has to do with committing sexual assaults and murder. It's almost as if he's saying, he's blaming football. Football turned me into this monster because it taught me that I had to push everything inside. I don't know. It almost seems like that's what he's saying. And I think that's a little tough to buy. Oh, I think so. Now, the part about not crying and showing emotions and that that was true. That happened, you know, when you and I were younger. It did. You were told, be a man. Don't cry.

especially if you played football, it was a very macho kind of thing. You had to act a certain way and certainly didn't want to cry. And those who didn't got made fun of or ridiculed. Todd said that he eventually started to view women as sexual objects. After he was suspended from the team, he lost his ability to play. And he was no longer able to have sex as much as he wanted to like he did when he was a player and girls were more interested in him. His relationship with his girlfriend at the time fell apart.

Todd said, at that time, I felt that it was because I was no longer playing football. And I was unable to deal with that rejection. And somehow this developed into this like fantasy that I could make somebody give me what I want. There are certain types of rapes. If you know a certain type of rape, I was what you would deem a control rapist. I would use the necessary. force to make them have sex with me.

If they resisted too much, I would run away. But what I was after was each time I had sex with a woman, it was like a reaffirmation of who I was of myself work. He really talks about self-worth a lot. He does. You really had a problem with that, you know? Yeah. Now, he did call himself a rapist, but then he said every time I had sex with a woman.

Yeah, he chose those. words differently, didn't he? Yeah. And I can guarantee you that his victims didn't view it that way. No. Todd Hodney died of cancer on April 29th, 2020. ESPN reported that he was comatose at the time of his death. Hodney's daughter said she didn't know the full extent of her father's crimes until she talked to ESPN in July 2021. Growing up, she was told that her father killed the drug dealer. She didn't find out about the rapes until she received some of his legal papers after his death. She reported that her mother, Todd's former wife, was in a nursing home. It's a rough way to find out that your dad was a rapist.

Yeah. Yeah. And I get it. Do you want to shield a child from that? Yeah, probably. But it's going to be tough when they get older and find out who their father really was. No, he didn't kill a drug dealer.

and also he was a serial rapist because that's what Todd Hodney was. He was. He showed time and time again that you know, he was a danger to society that he would continue attacking women whenever he had the chance or desire to do so. That's really the big thing that I took away from some of the stuff that he said. You know, he equated sex and football with self-work. He called himself, he called himself a control rapist, but then said that he felt better, you know, when he had sex with these women. And the fact that he could even say it that way is amazing or view it that way. But he eventually escalated to murder after he was given yet another chance at freedom. He blew it.

I mean, again, we talked about how some of the sentences he received were too light. Now, it's easy to say that he was. paroled when he shouldn't have been after he goes on to murder someone. That's that's pretty easy to say. But you had a lot of prosecutors writing into the parole board saying, this guy's very dangerous. You really need to keep him locked up. Todd Hodney put his victims through trauma that will remain with them for the rest of their lives. And he destroyed a family when he murdered Jeffrey Hirsch. He was just kind of a monstrous guy. He really was. There's no way. around it. Yeah, not a good human. But just another guy Gibbs who wanted what he wanted and was willing to do

whatever it took to get that. And that's what he did. Regardless of how it affected others, how it hurt others, he just didn't care about that part. He didn't. He only cared about getting what he wanted or getting the satisfaction that he wanted. But that's it for our episode on Todd Hodney. We've got some voicemails. You want to check those out? Let's hear them. Hi, Mike and Goody. This is Ashley calling from upstate New York in a little town called the Clipson Park. I have enjoyed your podcast for a little while. I just started to listen to it about a week ago. And it's kind of helped me get through my day-to-day work. I work normally like a five to midnight. So listening to it and speak to my interest. I've always been a fan of true crime.

And I want to let you guys know that you guys are doing fantastic. how you describe everything and put everything into a good detail. And it's something that has always piece of my interest is to learn more about all the serial killers and all the killers around and find them and what's in them their, well, what's in their mind at the time. So thank you guys so much in continuing your podcast. I enjoy listening to them.

And yeah, keep your own time taking, guys. Thank you. Yeah. Thanks for the voicemail. We appreciate it. And I think of the,

there's so many other people that are right there with you. You know, what makes these people tick? What makes them do what they do? You know, that's a large part of the fascination. It really is. You're not alone, Ashley. No, not at all. Hi, Mike.

Hi, Givie. My name is Paige. I am calling from Lewiston, Idaho again. I just got done listening to your guys' podcasts about our year episode on Michelle Carter. And I know there was a lot of debate on if people should be held responsible. for their actions. I mean, as far as texting,

but that also made me think of, I know people, when they do, like, bomb threats, or, you know, like, they say they're going to harm people or, you know, anything like that. I know those are taken into consideration as well. So I think even though this case may be a great area, I think this hits, you know, hits home for a lot of people, and I do think that she ultimately should be held responsible.

happy holidays from me and my fam stay safe and keep your own time taken all right back at you thanks for the voicemail yeah there there's a lot of debate around that case but i think by and large the majority of people think that she should be held responsible for you know what she did now some may argue to the extent yes of that responsibility and the sentencing and all that but I don't know how many people think what she did was okay or she should have just walked away. I'm sure there are some, but I think she had opportunities to attempt to stop it. Oh, she absolutely did. We had one thing in the mailbag gives and it was huge.

It was actually two things. It was. Someone sent us some funco pops. Yeah. And not just any old funco pops. They were of me and you. That's right. Mine says T-Cat Fergie and.

yours says T-Cat Gibby. Yeah, they're awesome. Yeah, they're very cool. Yeah. I didn't even know you could have a funco pop of yourself made. Well, there's, we got them now. But somebody sent them to us. The only request they had was that you try to pronounce their name. Oh, this name right here. Mm-hmm. Oh, well, uh, I appreciate that. Uh, George, Mederano Pacado. Okay. Mr. Rabato. All right. Well, hopefully Jorge gets a kick out of that. But we appreciate it very much. They're super cool. Definitely going in the studio. They're awesome. All right, buddy, that's it for another episode of True Crime All the Time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.