True Crime All The Time - Tony Boyle

Episode Date: May 6, 2024

On December 31st, 1969, Joseph Yablonski, his wife, and his daughter were murdered inside their home in Clarksville, Pennsylvania. Earlier that year, Yablonski announced he was running for president of the United Mine Workers of America. His opponent was Tony Boyle, who had been president since 1963. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss Tony Boyle. Federal and state investigators uncovered a conspiracy to murder Joseph Yablonski organized by Boyle, who saw him as a threat to the union’s leadership strategies. Boyle conspired with his fellow cronies in the union in planning the murder.You can support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

everyone and welcome to episode 382 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson. And with me as always is my partner in True Crime, Mike Gibson. How are you? Hey, I'm doing good. About you. I'm doing great. That's awesome. And I just got done doing our weekly Patreon thing.

We did. I nailed it. You did. Yeah. As you always do. Absolutely. Talked a little bit about some true crime news, what we were watching, all that stuff. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout up.

We had Melissa Porter. Hey, thanks, Melissa. Ilona. Hey, Iona. Alicia RN79. Well, thanks, Alicia. Mark. What's going on, Mark?

Nick. Well, hey, Nick. Paula Wilson. There's Paula. Amanda Moss. Thanks, Amanda. Angela Cass. Like Mama Cass.

Jason Krauss. Hey, Jason. And last but not least, Mom 7X. That's a lot of mom. That's a lot of children. Well, a lot of kids. Yeah, that's what I mean. Okay, well, it came out a little differently.

I'm just saying, you know, you're one busy mom. Yeah, I got what you were saying. Then if we go back into the vault, this week we selected Stephanie Nacosone. Hey, thanks, Stephanie. Yeah, appreciate that. We also had a great PayPal donation from Hesper Stacey. Oh, thanks, Hesper. Yeah, thanks to everyone.

So Gibbs, right now we have an episode out on True Crime All the Time Unsolved, where we're talking about Lindy Chamberlain. And this is a pretty infamous story out of Australia. Yeah. She was convicted of murdering her 10 week old daughter. Lindy claimed that a dingo attacked the infant and dragged her away from the family campsite.

But investigators didn't believe her. And we've heard about it. And different shows in the past would kind of mock it a little bit. Yeah. Seinfeld was probably the most famous one. where Elaine says the dingo ate my baby. But that's pretty good. That wasn't bad.

I mean, a little low for Elaine, but it has been kind of used in a satirical way, but this is not that. I mean, this is a real story. Sure is. Yeah. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime All the Time? I am ready. We're talking about Tony Boyd. On December 31st, 19th.

In 1969, Joseph Yablonski, his wife and his daughter were murdered inside their home in Clarksville, Pennsylvania. Earlier that year, Yablonsky announced he was running for president of the United Mine Workers of America. That's a big job. That's a huge job. You think about the 60s, big, big time for the union. Yeah. They were super powerful. Yeah, they were.

Now, his opponent was Tony Boyle, who had been president since 1963. And if there's one thing that that I know about union leaders, they really don't want to give up their power. No, I used to work for a union. And I was a... You were not a union leader. I was a steward. Yeah. Okay.

Could have been on my way. Could have been the next Jimmy Hoffa. Well, I did work for the Teamsters. Yeah. But, you know, there's a lot of power. there's a lot of influence. I'm sure there's a lot of money that comes with some of these very high profile president of union type jobs. So obviously when your rival is murdered, the police are going to look at you. Of course. Because there's a clear motive there. The United Mine Workers of America

was founded in 1890 in Columbus, Ohio, when the National Progressive Union of Miners and mine laborers combined with the Knights of Labor Trade Assembly number 135. That's going to be a big group. Yeah, it was said. 10,000 miners from Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, and Pennsylvania came together to improve working conditions and wages. The union has local assemblies all over the U.S. and even into parts of Canada. That's a tough gig, man.

I was just getting ready to ask you if you've done any mining yourself. Family members have, but not myself. Yeah, me neither. I've had a lot of different jobs, but being a minor was not, you know, one of them. I mean, the closest I came to being a minor was when I was under the age of 18. So you're saying you came close, but you didn't actually reach it. You weren't a minor. You were never a minor.

I was never. Even at a very young age. But, you know, in all seriousness, tough jobs. You know, I think about coal miners or. for, you know, just very hazardous condition. Yeah. And you would think, and I'm sure it was true over the years, it kind of became, the conditions kind of became ripe for needing a union to help

protect the workers. John L. Lewis was president of United Mine Workers for over 40 years. That's a long time. That's a long time. And it kind of goes back to my theory of, you know, once you get it, How do you keep it? You don't want to give that gig up. According to Smithsonian Magazine, Lewis was a major figure in the labor movement

and encouraged the growth of unions across the country. Now, does it make sense that out of necessity, unions want to grow? Because how does a union thrive? Well, membership. Membership. So, you know, you're always trying to promote growth. Lewis retired in 1960 and was succeeded by Thomas Kennedy. However, it was vice president W.A. Tony Boyle, who was really in charge.

Boyle was a minor from Montana, but he was brought to the headquarters in Washington by President John Lewis to be trained as his successor. Thomas Kennedy's health declined, and Tony Boyle assumed his executive duties. He took over as president after Kennedy died in 19. Boyle was chosen by former president John Lewis from retirement. That's a heck of an endorsement. Yeah, I mean, I think if the former president who was president for 40 years comes out and says, hey, here's who I think should be the next president.

You're going to listen to that person. At this time, the UMW had 110,000 active members and 40,000 retired members. There were more than 1,300 local assemblies in 23 different states. So, I mean, it was a big, big union. Yeah. Tony Boyle had support from retirees and higher ups in the union, but lower ranking members weren't always pleased with his leadership. Miners wanted better safety regulations and a guaranteed wage.

There were also complaints that union grievances took months and sometimes years to be resolved. Well, that's going to be an issue for a lot of the members, right? You file grievance and you want it to be resolved fairly quick and not take, you know, a year to get resolution. Well, let's face it, you're paying dues, right? You are paying money out of your check, let's say. You expect to get some benefit for that. Representation. And if you have a grievance, you want it taken care of.

of in a timely manner. Obviously, everybody wants better safety regulations, especially in an industry like that, which is pretty hazardous. Many disliked the fact that retired members still had full voting benefits. I kind of get that, you know. You're not active anymore. You're not dealing with what we're dealing with.

But I'm guessing that maybe some of the retire workers had voting rights because it was relevant to their retirement. packages. Well, that's how I was thinking, you know, pension, health, you know, medical, stuff like that. Some of Boyle's greatest supporters came from District 19, which encompassed Kentucky and Tennessee. At the 1964 UMW convention in Miami, Boyle engaged in some lavish spending. According to Smithsonian, he faced opposition for this. But the UPI quoted to him as saying, if you try to take this gavel from me, I'll still be holding it when I'm flying over your head. Okay.

I'm assuming that means he would be dead. Yeah. Something akin to you'll have to pry this gun out of my cold dead fingers. Yeah, something like that. In Miami, a group of miners from District 19 assaulted anti-Boyle speakers. Another issue was that union members felt Boyle cared more about mine owners than minors. Well, it's a problem.

Well, it's a problem for the miners. It's great for the owners, right? If you've got somebody that is leading up the union who is kind of giving you favorable terms, well, you're really going to like that person. But the members aren't. No. Because to them, you know, this is a guy who's supposed to be working for them, not the owners.

According to Smithsonian, the UMW owned the National Bank of Washington. By the 1960s, the bank suffered from fraud and poor management. Union improved the bank's finances at the expense of member benefits. But this wasn't exposed until the end of the 1960s. And I think this is something that, you know, you've seen over the years. You know, unions kind of get a bad name because they do stuff that isn't always quite, legal. And a lot of times it centers around the financing. Yes, the money. The money, because the money is

huge. You know, think about the dues that are coming in from what, 110,000 active members. Okay. That's going to be quite a bit of money. That is a lot. Joseph Jock Yablonski was one of Boyle's opposers. Joseph was born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania on March 3, 1910. By the age of 15,000, he was a lot. By the age of 15, He was working in the coal mines in the southwestern part of the state. His father died in a mine explosion in 1933. This tragedy led Yablonsky to become an advocate for mine safety. And I think you often see that. You know, when somebody at an early age experiences a tragedy, someone in their family dies

in a certain way, a lot of times that can spur them on to, kind of turn their life in that direction. You know, how many people have become police officers? Because something tragic happened in their family and they wanted to help protect people. Yeah, many. Same with firefighters. Firefighters or doctors. Yep, you can, you can go right down the line.

Joseph was elected president of a local assembly in 1934. He represented 15,000 workers on the executive board of District 5, which in encompasses most of southwestern Pennsylvania. He also served as a workers representative in Washington from 1934 to 1942, like Tony Boyle, Joseph Yablonski, caught the attention of John L. Lewis. In 1942, with Lewis's backing, Joseph was elected to the International Executive Board and represented 35,000 minors from District 5. He maintained his position through seven elections. It's a big piece of the union. Well, and I think it also tells you that people must have liked him.

They must have liked what he was doing, you know, to survive that many different elections. And I did watch some videos on this guy, Jock Yablonski. And a lot of people who worked with him or knew him, they had a lot of glowing things to say about him. I even saw some interviews where he was talking. And he was pretty outspoken, especially about Tony Boyle. Yeah. He didn't like the way that Tony was running things near the time of his death. In 1958, Yablonsky was elected president of District 5.

In 1964, he ran for vice president of UMW without authorization from headquarters. He was forced out of his position as president of District 5 by, Tony Boyle in 1966. Yablonski later said that this was when he made the decision to run against Boyle for Union president. I think what you have here is a couple of guys who don't really care for each other

but are high up in the Union. I'm assuming Tony Boyle wasn't happy when Jock ran for vice president and so forced him out of this position creating probably a lot of bad blood. Sure, yeah. But you got someone with a lot of power trying to keep it.

And you got somebody trying to rise up through the ranks to get some of that power. And they have, let's say, opposing viewpoints. Yeah, probably opposing interest. Yablonski was also a husband and father of three young adults. His first marriage was with Anne-Marie Huffman. Their son, Kenneth Yablonski, was born in 1934. They divorced, and he married amateur playwright Margaret Wasechak. They had two children together, Joseph Yablonski Jr., nicknamed Chip, and Charlotte Yablonsky.

Both sons went on to become labor attorneys and represented their dad in the union. Charlotte was a social worker. Joseph and his wife lived in Clarksville, located in the heart of southwestern Pennsylvania's coal country, per Smithsonian. In the late 60s, the New York Times reported that Clarksville had a population of less than 1,200 people. And most of the residents there were minors. The community was set within District 5. Probably felt like a big old family. Yeah, 1,200 people, not a lot of people. By 1969, Yablonski was part of the UMW's inner circle. But he was very outspoken about union issues. He felt as though the union wasn't actually serving its members.

And I mentioned listening to him in some interviews, and that's kind of what he was talking about in some of the ones I watched. I think it's always going to be tough as an executive member to go up against other executives. Well, especially the president. Yes. That it's going to be tough. When you come out and say something like that, you're essentially bad-mouthing the current administration.

Yeah. And you're saying they're not doing what they should be doing. You're not getting the support that you should be getting for the dues you're paying. So in May of 1969, Joseph decided that he was going to challenge Tony Boyle in that year's election. He accused Boyle of nepotism and misuse of union funds and pushed for more. more voting rights for regular members. So nepotism, yeah, it's not great. I guess it depends on how qualified the person is. That's true. Nepotism when the person is not qualified at all, that's, that's terrible. Right. It's a terrible practice. But I think we're getting back to this

misuse of union fund, which is something that we've heard of with a lot of the unions. Yeah. I remember when I was part of the Teamsters, it was always like talk around what's really going on with our pension funds, you know, and will we really get what we're promised when it comes time? What are they using those monies for and, you know, and it's been thought that at certain points, some of the unions used the pension funds for nefarious thing. Yeah. Joseph announced his candidacy on May 29th, according to the New York Times. he said Tony Boyle had shown shocking ineptitude and passivity and not pushing for safety reforms. He also alleged that the administration was riddled with fear. Okay, that's probably not that out of the norm.

If you're going to run against someone, it's really hard not to sling a little mud. Now, you want to be careful. You don't want to sling too much, but you have to point out why this person, is not the right person for the job while at the same time, you know, showing the, your constituency why you are. Yeah, really fine line to walk. And it's a line that, you know, even in politics, I think gets crossed quite a bit. You know, you see some ads that they're just brutal. I've seen some local ads, like in local elections. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they are just what I would consider over the long. Now, it's not like that movie with Will Ferrell and Zach Galfanakis

where they're running against each other. It's not that bad. That's a funny movie. It is a funny movie and they had some ads that were aimed at each other. Oh, yeah. But yeah, some of them are quite shocking to be honest with you. And then to see the candidates on stage later, shaking hands and you're thinking, did you see that? Had he put up against you? How could you be shaking that person's hand right now? He should be socking him in the mouth. It was said that Joseph's family was worried about his decision to run for president.

His son Chip told Smithsonian, from the moment he announced his candidacy, we were afraid. Goons from District 19 would be activated. It's an interesting way to say it. It is, but it kind of falls in line with. You know, I think some of the things that the unions did back in the day, they weren't always walking the straight and narrow. No, I remember back in the day, there was always talk and even jokes about our local union being, you know, mobsters.

Well, it turned out some of them actually were. Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure they were. So even though they were afraid, the whole family supported him. Joseph's daughter, Charlotte, took a leave from work. and moved home to help with the campaign. It was a highly contentious election. The union paper published anti-Jublonsky propaganda.

Boyle secretly had an extra 100,000 ballots printed to stuff ballot boxes. Wow, man. Anything to win, right? I mean, this is like the stuff of Tammany Hall back in the 1800s or it doesn't surprise me that it was happening. that it was happening in 1969, but in a way, a little bit it does.

I'm just trying to picture the results. You know, we've got a hundred and 44 this guy and 80 for this guy. And people be like, well, wait, we only have 100,000 members. How do we have that many more votes?

That is going to be a problem. I do believe. Unsurprisingly, Boyle one district 19. And on December, 9th, 1969, he was declared the winner of the election. He would be president of the United Mine Workers of America for the next five years. Boyle received over 81,000 votes, while Yablonsky received a bit less than 46,000 per the New York Times. So it really wasn't even that

close. Now, there's no way that they could have used all of those 100,000 ballots. Yeah. Because Boyle didn't even receive 100,000 votes. And maybe somebody was smart enough to realize that. Hey, you might have printed that many, but we can't cast that many. Yeah, we can't do that. Yablonsky and his supporter suspected the results were fraudulent. On December 18, 1969, Yablonsky asked the Department of Labor to investigate the election. He initiated five civil lawsuits. against the union and federal court. Joseph's sons would carry on the lawsuit after his death. On December 31, 1969, Chip Yablonsky tried to call his father, but he didn't answer.

He assumed his dad was out for the evening. But he became concerned a few days later when his dad didn't show up for a swearing-in of elected officials in Washington, Pennsylvania. On January 5th, 1970, Kenneth Yablonsky, decided to go to Clarksville to check on his father. He discovered a horrific crime scene. Joseph, his wife Margaret, and his daughter Charlotte were dead. They had all been shot multiple times. Joseph was sprawled on the floor of a bedroom. Margaret was found on the bed and Charlotte was found

in another bedroom. It seemed as though Joseph was the only one who had woken up during the night. investigators thought he was going to grab one of two guns. He kept in the corner of his bedroom. But he was killed before he could get to it. And I know guns are a touchy subject. People have differing opinions on them, not only here in the U.S., but definitely in other countries where the laws are different.

The one thing I will say is if you are going to own a gun for protection, it's a good idea to be able to get to it. Yeah, if you need it, have it where you can access it. Quickly enough. Right. Joseph was shot four or five times in the head and torso. Charlotte was shot twice in the head. News outlets didn't disclose how many times Margaret was shot.

I'm just trying to envision Kenneth walking in and finding his dad and mom and sister murdered. Yeah, I think it's one of those things. unless you've been through it, and hopefully not many of us have, it's pretty hard to comprehend what that would be like. I mean, to my way of thinking, if you walked into a house of someone you didn't know and you saw this scene, it would haunt you for the rest of your life. Yeah. But when you're talking about immediate family members, that's obviously even rougher.

And then you think, okay, maybe you couldn't just. justify it, obviously, you don't want to justify it, but you can say, I understand why they, whoever this was took my dad out. But why take my mom and my sister out? So you're going down the path of assuming that it has something to do with the union and, and all of that. And, okay, I understand what you're saying. Somebody had a problem with him. Now, it wouldn't be right to kill him, but if they were intent on doing so, why also kill, you know, his wife? And, you know, and his daughter. The only thing I can think of is you have a person who's not willing to take the chance

on leaving witnesses behind who could possibly identify him or them or her or whoever it was. And if it was the union, where he sends a loud message, doesn't it? Well, it sends a message of don't mess with us for sure. But think about that tactic of intimidation. That has been used by organizations for as long as you can think of. I mean, the mob was great at that, right? Sending messages, which basically said, if you do what this person did,

whether it's rat or, you know, whatever, you're going to end up like this person. Yeah. The victims were killed by 38, caliber bullets. No matching gun or cartridges were found in the home. So it appears to be like a professional way. Yeah, I mean, I think you could make that argument. I don't know that it had to be, but if you're assuming that the union had something to do with it, well, then they probably had somebody who was pretty experienced. Take care of this. Now, the fact that no matching gun was found, that makes sense, right?

the person's not going to leave the gun behind on purpose. No cartridges being found. That makes me think this was most likely a revolver. Number one, because it was a 38, but also 1969. Yeah, I'm thinking it was probably a revolver. The family had been dead since December 31st. And from the very beginning, authorities thought more than one person was involved. And why would they think that?

Well, you have three individuals, right? And you probably want to execute them at the same time. So you don't have anybody escaping or calling for help. Or just in general, to control the situation, I would think is what the authorities would suspect. At least a couple of people to handle three individuals. Upon further inspection of the house, the police saw that the tires of Joseph and Charlotte's vehicles were slashed and the phone lines were cut. It kind of makes you think even more that it was probably a professional.

Well, it was definitely thought out, right? They didn't want to take any chances that somebody was going to get out, jump in a vehicle and get away. And they also wanted to make sure that no one was going to pick up the phone and call the authorities. Tony Boyle issued a statement from the headquarters. of UMW saying he was shocked by the news and the murders had no connection with the union or the election. And that's an interesting statement. Now, you're going to have to come out and say,

oh, I'm shocked by this and maybe even send condolences or, but to come out right away and definitively say that the murders had no connection with the union or the election. My question, my question, is how does he even know that? Right. It almost seems suspect that he would offer that up. Boyle said, per the New York Times, I do not know at this time what caused the deaths of brother Yablonsky, his wife and his daughter, but whatever the cause, the violent deaths of three members of the Yablonski family can only be called tragedy. As president of the United Mine Workers, I offer the fullest cooperation to the authorities of all facilities. of our organization to try to resolve the cause of these deaths.

And that's what you would expect somebody to say, especially someone in that, you know, very high up type of position. Yeah, it's the proper communication. The federal government got involved in the case after the murders. Within a month, investigators discovered the embezzlement of union funds to order a hit on Yablonsky. So this statement of, you know, these murders had no connection to the union or the election doesn't seem to ring true, you know, after this comes out. Washington County DA Jess Costa appointed Philadelphia attorney Richard Sprague as special prosecutor.

It was one of the largest investigations in state history. In total, nine people went to prison for the murders. And one of the reasons for this is because the killers left behind so many fingerprints that they were arrested within days. So not the smartest group. No. And does it kind of maybe make you rethink whether or not these were quote unquote pro? Yeah, it does.

You know, it sounds like they did some of the things you would think a pro would do, but they didn't wear gloves or, you know, anything like that. another main piece of evidence was a paper in Joseph's home with an Ohio license plate number on it. It seemed like Joseph knew he was being stopped before he was killed and was trying to gather evidence. Well, that kind of makes sense since the authorities thought there was more than one person. Maybe they were being stalked. And that's how they knew that they were going to need more than one person to execute them because there was three of them. On January 21st, 1970, the FBI announced the arrest of three men in Cleveland, Ohio, in connection with the Yoblonsky murders.

37-year-old Paul Eugene Gilli, 26-year-old Claude Edward Vili, and 23-year-old Auburn Wayne Martin. Both Ville and Martin had criminal records involving shootings. Gilly was previously arrested for child non-support. They were charged with conspiracy to interfere with and actual interference with the rights of union members by force and violence and obstruction of justice. Okay, those are interesting charges because, you know, at that point, none of them really involved murder. Not yet. Claude Edward Veeley was also charged with transporting firearms across the state line. Joseph Leibonski's lawyer said that Paul Eugene.

Gilly had visited the family home before the murders, quote, looking for a job, but that he was really casing the house. Trying to figure out how to get in. When they got in, where would they have to go to get to the bedrooms? Right. The layout of the house and all that. The FBI confirmed this statement. A government attorney said Joseph was murdered by the three men to keep him from testifying

before a federal grand jury. that was investigating the 1969 election. And again, if we go back to what we talked about earlier, what will some people in power do to keep hold of that power? Anything, everything. Including murder. Yeah. In some cases.

On January 22nd, the state of Pennsylvania filed murder charges against the three defendants. So what do you think the original charges were? Just to kind of hold them. while they were maybe working up the murder case? I think so. That was kind of my thought. Yeah.

It's a possibility. Keep you from disappearing. A federal grand jury indicted Gilly, Bealey, and Martin on January 29. The indictment named two more co-conspirators, 29-year-old Annette Gillie, and 22-year-old James Charles Phillips, the fourth man in the conspiracy. Apparently, the concierge. Conspirators debated different ways to kill Joseph, such as putting arsenic in his food or cigars, shooting him in his car and sinking it in a river, bombing his house or car, luring him to the front door and shooting him,

or kidnapping his daughter and killing him when he came to deliver the ransom. Just wondering how those conversations go. Do they go out to a local bar, restaurants sit around, all right guys how are we going to do this and they have all these different possibilities is there somebody with a stenopad who's making a pros and cons list of each one right how are you going to decide what is the best course of action and as and have one of them done one of these things before that they have the knowledge or do they have like a buddy they call up and say hey I think we're going to do this.

How do you actually pull this one off? I mean, have a guy like the three had and horrible bosses. Yeah. Like Jamie Foxx. Exactly. Go to a bar and ask him how to pull it off. They ultimately chose to shoot him at close range because it was deemed to be the most likely

method to succeed. And okay, that makes a lot of sense. If you shoot someone at close range, you do have a better chance of killing them. Sure, yeah. I mean, that's just common sense. Your success rate's going to be a lot higher. When you look at some of these other ones, right, arsenic, okay, can you kill somebody with

that? Sure. Could they just get very, very sick and then get better? Possibly. Bombing his house or car. Okay, well, now you've got to figure out how to make a bomb. And we'll be strong enough that it will take him out, but not take out the whole neighborhood. kidnapping his daughter.

Well, there's a lot that goes into a kidnap. Sure. Because then you have to deliver a ransom. Then he has the ability to reach out to the authorities. And everyone knows it's the drop. That's the most dangerous part. Annette Gilley joined the conspiracy in July 1969 and borrowed the car that was used to travel from Cleveland to Clarksville to commit the murders.

The New York Times reported. that the murders were planned in La Follett, Tennessee and Beckley, West Virginia, located in the 19th and 29th districts in the UMW Union, both of which showed hostility towards Yablonsky. And I found this to be such a coincidence. You know, Lafawlett, Tennessee, such a small place that my grandparents just happened to be from. I spent a lot of time as a kid in Lafollett, Tennessee. And I spent time there too. We talked about that before. Yeah, which I do think is strange. It is strange. Yeah. But you know where you want to have these conversations in places like that where the local union doesn't like jock and you don't have to be overly concerned about your conversations.

Well, you're going to be surrounded maybe by more people who are sympathetic to what you're trying to do. I still think, you know, you want to limit it, right, to as few people as possible because there's a chance that it gets out. Right. The indictment alleged that Gilly purchased firearms before the murders, including a 38 caliber pistol and a 30 caliber M1 Army carbine, which were used in the murders. Starting in October, 1969, Gilly, Veeley, and Phillips made what were called reconnaissance journeys. to isolate Yablonski. In November, the three of them traveled to La Fala to meet with Annette Gillian person's unknown.

Phillips backed out after he, Gilly and Vili broke into Yablonski's home on November 20th to case the house. And I wonder how that went down because, you know, you're privy to pretty much all the information. Right. But you're telling the other guys, you know what, I can't do this. Is there a thought that you might be in some danger? I think there's a good chance, right?

Because you are aware of what the ultimate goal is. According to the indictment, Veeley drove to Clarksville on December 8th and spoke to Yablonski, Gilly and Vili observed the house on Christmas Day. So they really were stalking him. Auburn Martin was recruited by Gilly to replace Phillips on December 29th, just two days before the murder. Again, it goes back to your question, right? How do you broach this subject with someone?

Hey, we got a murder planned. One of our guys dropped out. You in? Yeah, I don't know if it goes like that, but I see what you're saying. I'm thinking it's like probably going to some rallies and looking for that overly upset individual. Like, I don't want such and such to lead my union.

If that ever happens, I'll kill them. And you're like, and okay, he's our guy. On December 30th, Annette Gilley made arrangements to borrow the car. And then finally on December 31st, Gilly paid Martin $1,700 and Vili $1,000 in cash. Seems a little low even back in 69. That seems low. I'm also wondering why a guy they just brought in is getting $1,700 and Vili, who's been in it from the beginning is getting $1,000.

And maybe it was because of it. was a rush job. They needed this guy last minute. I don't pay him a little bit more to get him. Might have to. Despite all this evidence, investigators still hadn't identified who exactly ordered to hit and where the money came from. But they had a list of potential suspect. In February, three top officials of the UMW were summoned before a federal grand jury investigating the murders. James Commets, who succeeded Jablonsky as chief, lobbyist William Turnblazer, the president of UMW District 19, and Albert Pass, the secretary-treasurer of District 19, were all called to testify.

Additionally, Silas Huddleston, Annette Gilley's father was also asked to stay for questioning. Silas was president of a local assembly in LaFalette, Tennessee. And I did get a little worried. You know, as I was researching this case, was I going to get to the point where one of my relatives was mentioned or, you know, my great, great, great, you know, whoever. You never know. It's such a small town. Yeah. That it got a little scary.

On February 25th, 1970, Silas Huddleston was indicted by a federal grand jury for conspiracy. He was accused of directing Annette and Paul Gilles. in the execution of the murder. This guy directed his own daughter in the execution of the murder. For the good of the union in his mind. But how many times we talked about it, right? As a father, you're supposed to be looking out for your children. Yeah.

Not trying to enlist them or help them to execute a murder. That's not your job. Don't do that. All five co-conspirators were indicted by the state of Pennsylvania on three counts of first-degree murder on May 6, 1970. James Phillips was not indicted because he had been cooperating with investigators and testified before the federal grand jury. It's always going to be the one. Well, we said he dropped out, but he was probably pressured. I'm sure they threatened him with jail time for whatever role he did.

play. I don't know that he had a whole lot of choices. Either testify against some of these people as to what you know or spend time in jail. Yeah, your choice. On June 23rd, 1971, Claude Ville pleaded guilty to murder and made a lengthy confession. The following information was reported by the New York Times. Part of Vili's confession said, Tony was in a hurry and wanted the job done and that Tony was offering $5,200 for the murder, Bealey also said Tony got angry about the delay. But officials would not answer questions about Tony's identity. Now, it's pretty hard not to think that he's talking about Tony Boyle, but let's face it,

there are a lot of people named Tony. A lot of Tony's out there. Tony, Tony, Tony, Tony. That's right. Hey, Tony. Bealey claimed that Auburn Martin fired the first two shots and killed Charlotte Yablonski. Beely was supposed to shoot Joseph and Margaret, who were screaming in another room. He pressed a button that he thought would release the safety, but he released his magazine instead.

Paul Gilly grabbed his gun and fired one shot, but the weapon jammed. Martin then came over, stepped inside the door, and fired four times. Veeley took the weapon from Martin, reloaded it, walked into the room and shot Joseph two more times. So again, you know, going back to kind of the initial thought that, hey, we're probably dealing with some real professionals here. Turns out, we are not. We are not. This guy doesn't know the difference between the safety and the mag release button. And if they didn't have two guys there that night and if they didn't have multiple people there that night, I don't know.

if they would have been successful. I also thought it was very strange that Charlotte, the daughter, was killed first. And maybe it just speaks to how inexperienced these people are. Normally, in this type of scenario, you would see the perpetrator go after the most dangerous person first, which in this case would be John. Yeah. We already mentioned it. had a couple of guns in his room.

I think that would be your biggest threat. Why wouldn't you want to address that right away? There's a much bigger chance that he's going to have a firearm than probably Charlotte, right? The daughter. On November 12th, 1971, 23-year-old Auburn Martin was convicted of three counts of first-degree murder. He was the first defendant to go to trial. He testified in his own defense and denied any involvement in the murders.

He said that on December 30, 1969. He traveled with Claude Veeley and Paul Gilly to Clarksville, Pennsylvania for what he thought was a burglary. He thought they were after Yablonski's $50,000 coin collection. He was on the lookout and stayed in a vehicle outside the home. He claimed he learned about the murders when he saw the news several days later. He was warned not to say anything because there were important people backing the operation. They also threatened his wife and children. And I mean, as defenses go,

it's not the worst one I've ever heard of. No. Now, it's hard for me to think that he's outside the house in a car and doesn't hear all these gunshots. Yeah, exactly. Or that these individuals after committing the murders come back to the car and are acting in a manner that would equate to,

a theft versus killing three people. Right. Like, where's the $50,000 in coins, guys? I just didn't go. We couldn't find them. Let's get out of here. Auburn Martin was sentenced to death on November 13. Paul Gilley went to trial on February 22nd, 1972. Prosecutors argued that Gilly was the one who hired Claude Veeley and Auburn Martin to commit the murders. The state relied on the testimony of Claude Veeley and former conspirator James Phillips. Again, Bealey testified that Gilly made arrangements with a man identified as Tony. There was supposed to be a $5,200 payment split three-way. All right, Gibbs, do the math of that in your head for me. Doesn't really add up, does it? Bebo, people, people, boop. Not a good division of monies. Okay, you're not giving me an answer.

I did. Not a good divisions of money. Either way. Think about how little, and again, it's 1969, so it's more money than it would be today. Yeah. But even then, to murder three people for 17, 15, whatever it turns out to be, that's just, it's hard to foul. On March 1st, 1972, Gilly was found guilty of first-degree murder. The jury voted for the death penalty the next day. So that's two people involved.

Both found guilty, both sentenced to death. On April 11th, 1972, Annette Gilley, pleaded guilty to three counts of murder and one count of conspiracy in exchange for a life sentence. She really wasn't involved directly with the murder. Murders. Not to the extent that these other individuals were, but she knew about it, right? She did participate in the planning because she was involved in getting the car.

And she was found to be, you know, pretty much just as guilty as everyone else. Now, she got a life sentence and not the death penalty. A prosecutor came out and said they now had evidence that would lead to more arrests. Annette gave a 22-page statement to the FBI revealing everything she knew. excerpts were published by the New York Times. Part of her statement said, My father told me that no one in the union was worried about Yablonski winning the election.

My father stated that they were afraid Yablonsky would gain control of the pension fund, and this was the reason he had to be killed. Her father hired her husband to kill him, and Paul Gilly hired Auburn Martin, Claude Veeley, and James Phillips, the conspirator who backed him. out. The confession continued, when this murder was initially set up, Paul and I were not supposed to

know that we were dealing with anyone other than my father. My father was supposed to deal only with Bill Prater, and he in turn with Albert Pats. Bill Prater was a field representative for District 19, Albert Passe, Secretary-Treasurer of District 19, and a member of the UMW International executive board. So now it's kind of hitting home on the executive level. Well, it's reached higher, right? For sure. Annette said, my father told me that the Yablonski murder had the approval of the, quote, big man. To me, that meant Tony Boyle, president of the United Mine Workers. On the day Paul was arrested, he told her, if anything should happen to him, I should remember the following four names. Tyler Owens, pass, and Prater.

George Tyler was the VP of UMW. John Owens was the secretary treasurer. A lot of big names being passed out. It is. It's almost got like a watergate type feel to it, right? They're investigating. They're investigating. And the more they do, the higher they're getting up the chain of command.

Annette said, Paul Gilly met direct. with Albert Pass and William Prater and had obtained a promise from the union that it would furnish him with a high paying job upon completion of this job. Okay. So, you know, we just talked about there was not a lot of money involved. Now it was quite a bit of money for 1969, but not enough money, you know, to really think that you would kill someone. Right. But if you add in this incentive of, hey, you know what, we're going to get you a plus job. You're going to be making a bunch of money if you do this thing for us. Then maybe you can see how the money wasn't the biggest draw in the whole thing. When Paul was arrested, her dad told her, the union would take care of me. He told me that

with the union, the sky was the limit unless I talked, then the grave was the limit. Okay. If that's not a threat, then I don't know what is. Sounds like a pretty big threat to me. Keep your mouth shot and they'll take care of you. Open it up and they'll take care of you in a different, more permanent way. Sounds like something the mob used to say. Yeah. On May 3rd, 1972, Silas Huddleston also pleaded guilty to three counts of murder. He admitted that he directed and handled the payment for the murder of Joseph if Yablonsky with what he believed was union money. The money was given to him by two UMW officials, including Albert Pass, a member of the International Executive Board.

So we've known from the beginning, this was always going to tie back at some point. Yeah. To Tony Boyle. But now we're getting into an area where, you know, not only was this a murder for hire, It sounds like union funds were used to pay the murderers. Yeah, it's another avenue for prosecutors to go after individuals. Yeah, I mean, bad enough that you want someone debt, but you can't come out of your own pocket.

You have to use company money. He said he never asked how Tennessee UMW officials raised the money, but he believed they received checks from William Prater from the Research and Information Fund. In exchange for his guilty plea, he was promised a recommendation of life in prison, but not a guarantee. I think that just shows you how powerful the difference is. Yeah. That just a chance at getting life versus the death penalty was enough to make this guy spill everything. Just for the hope. Just for the hope, not even a guarantee. Albert Pass was arrested on May 2nd after a grand jury indicted him with conspiring to violate Yablonsky's civil rights and obstruction of justice. William Prater was

arrested on April 12 on federal charges and later indicted on state charges for murder and conspiracy. Investigators believed Albert Pass met with Silas Huddleston and William Prater to further the conspiracy and that pass gave a picture of Yoblon. to silence. He allegedly instructed Prater to give Huddleston $6,000. On March 31st, 1972, UMW president, Tony Boyle was convicted of 13 counts of conspiracy and making illegal political contributions with union funds. So a lot of top people coming down, but the big dog is now got to answer questions too. Well, he was convicted of a lot of different charges, but none of these have anything to do with murder, right at this

point. Two other officials, John Owens and James Commets, were acquitted of these charges. Boyle faced up to 32 years in prison and fines up to $120,000. He was sentenced in June to five years in prison and fined $130,000. Got off kind of light, but might have had some influence. Well, he might have, but again, none of this was related, you know, to the murders. I mean, obviously 13 counts of conspiracy can't be good, making illegal political contributions with union funds, not good, but it's not killing anyone. No, but when something like that can carry up the 32 years and you slide. And you only get five? Yeah, you slide away with five.

I'm assuming there were some favors giving. Well, and I'm also assuming he probably had really good attorneys because he could afford them. Absolutely. Now, he did go up on the fine, which I thought was strange. It said the fines up to 120,000, well, they find him 130. And maybe that was part of it. You're going to get less years, but a bigger fine, which he probably didn't care about. He's right.

That's okay. It's the union money. I'll use the union money to pay it off anyway. on July 17th, 1972, Albert Pass and William Prater were indicted for murder. That year, the Department of Labor completed its investigation of the 1969 election and won the suit to overturn the election. The new election took place in December, and Arnold Miller replaced Tony Boyle as president. Well, you know, somebody was going to have to replace Tony Boyle because he's a convicted fellow. Yeah, he's not going to be the guy.

He's gone for at least five years, I think. William Prater went to trial in March 1973. Former conspirator Paul Gilly made a confession at trial. Gilly testified as quoted by the New York Times. I was told by Prater that Mr. Yablonski was trying to wreck and destroy the union and its pension funds and they wanted them kill. The prosecutor asked if Prater said, who wanted Yablonsky killed, Gilly responded,

yes, sir, Tony Boyle. And to me, you know, that's huge. It is huge. I'm sure there was a thought on the part of

investigators that, you know, maybe this whole thing originated with Tony Boyle. We just need a way to have him identified as the ringleader. Yeah,

and it sounds like Paul Gilley did that. On March 26th, 1973, William Prater was convicted of three counts of first degree murder. About three months later, on June 19th, 1973, former UMW executive Albert Pattz was also convicted of three counts of first degree murder. So, you know, anyone involved in this thing got convicted of murder, regardless of what their role was.

Yeah, I mean, I think the. prosecutors are definitely making a very large statement. But it's also a statement that I agree with. You know, do you have to be the one who actually pulls a trigger to be convicted of murder? And the answer is no. If you're involved in the planning, if you pay someone,

I mean, a net arranged for a car. Yeah. But you're all involved in the conspiracy of it. So. And you can make the argument that at, at any point, you could have gone to authorities and said, hey, this is what's going down, and you could have saved potentially this family's life. Yeah. I think you have to factor that

into account as well. On September 6, 1973, 71 year old Tony Boyle was arrested in charge with murder. He was arrested at a law office while giving a deposition in a suit against the UMW filed by Chip Yblonsky. I wonder if Chip was there when they were deposing him. How sweet would that have been to see this individual that conspired to have your dad killed? Yeah, pretty sweet. We don't know if he was there. He was an attorney, but he also filed the lawsuit.

So I don't know if he would have been there or not. A labor department official said Boyle was believed to be the highest ranking American labor leader ever, arrested for murder. That day, special prosecutor Richard Spray disclosed that William Turnblazer, the president of District 19, made a full confession in August that implicated himself and Boyle. Turnblazer pleaded guilty to a federal charge of violating Yablonsky's civil rights by conspiring to kill him. This was separate from his state murder charge. He would later testify that on June 23, 1969, Boyle told him, took him aside and ordered the assassination of Joseph Yblonski. This occurred after a meeting between Boyle and Yblonski at the UMW headquarters,

ended in a shouting mat. So it sounds to me like Boyle was heated. Yeah. You know, he and Jock got into this shouting match. The meeting didn't go well. He's fired up. He pulls this turnblazer guy aside and says, kill this SOB. Yeah.

Or something to that effect. You need to make sure he's gone. The arrest warrant stated that Boyle initiated and instigated a plan to assassinate and murder Yablonski. Boyle secretly told William Turnblazer and Albert Pass that Joseph, quote, ought to be killed or done away with. Okay, I'm not sure what the difference between those two are, but, uh, yeah, it kind of sounds like the same to me. one, to me, one is just a euphemism for the other. Boyle then diverted $20,000 in union funds to the two men to pay three hired killers and two intermediaries who directed their activities.

I wonder if they kept some of that money. I don't know, but you know, you can see kind of what Boyle is doing. He's trying to insulate himself. Sure he is. He's got multiple layers of people between, him and the murder of Yablonsky. But he had to tell one or more people to get the ball rolling. And he also probably had to be the one to divert the funds.

I doubt everybody had that ability. So when you do that, you know, you're putting a lot of trust in these, these people that you're confiding in. Because once they start to talk, then your insulation is gone. Yeah, you don't stand a chance. At the time, Boyle was still facing a five-year prison term for misusing UMW funds and federal charges of conspiring to violate Yablonsky's civil rights. On September 19, 1973, the first conspirator to be convicted, Auburn Martin, was sentenced to death. Tony Boyle went to trial on April 1, 1974.

On April 12th, he was found guilty of three counts of first-degree murder for ordering the assassination of Joseph Yablonski. Boyle's testimony was contradicted by prosecution witnesses. He got on the stand and denied any knowledge of the murders, saying the crime sickened him. Well, and if he's going to get on the stand, what else is he going to say? He has to deny, deny, deny. Yeah, he's not going to be like, oh, that guy got what? he had coming to him. Now the problem is by this point in time, the prosecution had so many people who had already admitted their role. They had a whole lineup of witnesses who could basically

contradict anything that Boyle said. Boyle started serving his three-year federal sentence in December 1973. On September 11th, 1975, Tony Boyle was sentenced to three consecutive. life terms. He gave a brief statement telling the court, all I can say is I'm innocent. On September 3rd, 1976, Paul Gilly and Claudeville were finally sentenced. Gilly was sentenced to three concurrent life terms. Bealey received one life term with the opportunity for parole. And at first, I wondered why it took so long to sentence these guys. But my thought is they wanted to wait to see the outcome of Boyle's trial. Yeah.

You know, could there have been something in play where, hey, we're going to need you to testify. And if you do, you know, instead of death, you'll get life or, you know, something along those lines. Make some type of deal. Sure. You're never getting out, but it won't be as bad. Auburn Martin appealed to the Pennsylvania Supreme Court, which they, they indicated his death ends. He was granted a delay in sentencing. In August

1974, Silas Huddleston and Annette Gilly were granted probation and new identities because of their cooperation with law enforcement. And that's where the Ferguson name comes in. Used to be Huddleston. No. But you know, you can see, and some people have issues with with some of these things, but you can see what prosecutors have to do sometimes. Sure. You want to get the big fish. And they did. They did. They got the guy at the very top who ordered this whole thing. But to do so, sometimes you got to make a deal. And some people are going to get off a little bit light. Now, neither one of these individuals pulled the trigger, but they were very much involved, especially Silas. They were sentenced to two years in

prison with 10 years probation. But the judge waived the prison terms because they had already been in custody for more than four years. The judge also dropped state murder charges against William Turnblazer that month. He was still serving five to 15 years on federal charges in the Yablonsky case. So it does sound as though there were a number of people who were convicted of state charges who either got them reduced or got them dropped altogether or were let out, you know, time served because of their cooperation. Right. Boyle started serving his life sentences in April, 1976, after he completed his federal sentence in January, 1977. He was granted a new trial by the Pennsylvania Supreme Court.

the court found that certain testimony was improperly barred that might have persuaded the jury that other convicted UMW members might have committed the murders without Boyle's knowledge. So his retrial opened on January 29th, 1978, but the jury was not convinced of his innocence. Tony Boyle was convicted of three counts of first degree murder on February 17th, 1978, he received three life sentences on February 23rd. So he ended up getting what he had anyway. Yeah. I wonder what it's like to be convicted of first degree murder twice.

Yeah. Now, to him, did it make any difference? You know, maybe he got to get out of prison. He got to go to court. He got to do all that. And he had the chance that maybe, just maybe a jury would see it differently this time around. They didn't. So really no difference for him. He had nothing to lose, I guess is what I'm trying to get out. Or I guess they could have given him the death penalty maybe, but by that time, I'm thinking, was it unconstitutional by 78? I think it was. Could have been. Tony Boyle died on May 31st, 1985 at a hospital in Pennsylvania. He was 83 years old and still serving his life sentence. He spent his final months moving between a.

nursing home and the hospital. William Prater died in his prison cell. On August 11th, 1989, he was 70 years old and had been in poor health for a while. He served 16 years in federal prison before he was transferred to Pennsylvania in 1988. Auburn Martin died of stomach cancer. On March 10th, 1991, he was 42 years old. Fifty-five-year-old Claude Edward Ville died of brain cancer on January 31st, 1999. On July 6th, 2021, Paul Eugene Gilley died of natural causes at a hospital in Pennsylvania. He was the last surviving assassin and was still serving his life sentence in state prison. He had requested clemency in the spring of 2021 after serving almost 50 years in prison. He wrote in 2019, having spent nearly 50 years in prison, I can

honestly state that in my heart, I feel that anything I did on December 31st, 1969, has been adequately paid for. Now, you might think that, but the surviving family members of the Yablonski family, I doubt they're going to agree with you. And I don't think the family would feel like that's justice. I don't think most of the time most families would. I think a lot of times they don't want to see anyone get out. They never want them to be free again, right? After committing these types of crimes, the observer reporter, a paper for Washington County, Pennsylvania, asked Chip Lubonski for comment about Gilly's death. He simply said, good riddons. In 2019, Smithsonian Magazine reported that the United Mine Workers of America is a shell of its former

self due to changes in the industry. The U.S. has moved away from manufacturing and unionization and the use of coal has declined. And I don't know for sure, but it seems as though just kind of unions as a whole are not nearly as big of a thing as they were back in the 60s, 70s. Yeah, I think there's been a decline. So as we wrap this one up, you know, the murder of Joseph. of Yablonski. It's an important part of the union's history. The investigation, exposed widespread corruption, election fraud, and put violent people in prison for many years. I mean, you know,

if you think about it, they cast a pretty wide net. Yeah. And they scooped up a bunch of people, including ultimately the top dog Tony Boyle. By the way. I am trying to start a podcast co-host union. Mm-hmm. So just putting you on notice. Okay. Just trying, you know. What are you looking for?

More safety regulations? Yes. Better free meals. Better quality meals. Better free chairs. Just let me know what you'd like. Want a desk, you know, things like that, you know. I got you.

A dictionary. I don't think there's any doubt that there are a number of unions that have had a checkered past or at the very least, right? There have been a lot of insinuations. Yeah. You know, criminal activity was kind of going on behind the guise of the union and maybe perpetuated by people at the very top of the union. There's been talk about ties with the mafia between the mafia and the unions for years. I guess the thing that grabbed me about this case is you have this guy in Tony Boyle who basically he would do anything to keep hold of his power.

And I think there's a lot of people out there like that. You know, once you get that type of power, it can be very intoxicating. Oh, yeah. And so, you know, people don't want to let it go. Now, do most people murder their rivals? No. But does it happen? Absolutely. But when you come down to it, it's a job. It's an elected position, but it's a job.

I mean, can you imagine murdering someone because they're trying to take your job? And I guess that's kind of a dumb question because most people can't imagine murdering anyone for any reason, right, let alone for their job. Some just seems so trivial that it's just, it's almost hard to believe. But you're talking power, million, of dollars. And money and power does something. Yeah. To people.

To some people. Well, it does something to everyone. But for some people, you know, it can make them do things that maybe they wouldn't have done otherwise. Right. Had they never tasted that type of power, money lifestyle. But that's it for our episode on Tony Boyle. We've got some voicemails, Gibbs.

You want to check those out? But see them. Herbie and Gibby. Holy crap. So let me tell you guys. Fairly new to the podcast world. You guys were one of the first podcast I listened to and kind of fell in love with the whole thing. First of all, let me say, Gibby, you're the most humble, contrite, respectable man I think I've ever heard of.

You're so accomplished. You've literally done everything. been involved in everything, yet you let Fergie run the show. I mean, that's really, really touching. On a more personal note, I want to thank you guys for all your hard work and everything that you do in the last two years. As I've been listening to your podcast, I have been walking and as I listen to the podcast, and I'm down 130 pounds.

So you guys give me motivation and you're freaking hilarious and I love you and have a beautiful day and keep your own time ticket. Oh, awesome voicemail. And congratulations, man, 130 pounds. That is awesome. That is awesome. Now, I know Gibbs, you're going to want me to explain some of those words he used to you and I will do so later off the air. But he said a lot of nice things about you. Yeah.

And I'm very humbled. You just looked at me so inquisitively, I could tell that not all those words kind of stuck. I know each and every one of them. No, but it was a great voicemail. And you are incredibly nice to let me do all this work. I am nice. You're welcome. Hi, guys.

I've been listening to your podcast for, I don't know how many years. Now, it seems like it's been a lot. But I just wanted to wait in on the Melissa McNanas. I'm not sure if I'm saying that right case where she had her baby killed and thrown the river I don't know

when I was a kid I forgive my kids for a lot of weird stuff because I feel like I was a weird kid I mean I think all of us do weird things but that I think that she served a good sentence for what she did

I'm glad that she got that much but being only 16, I feel like she possibly just wasn't grown up enough to make a good decision. And that's a pretty big, horrible thing to do. And I'm not excusing it whatsoever. But at the same time, I think that kids just aren't fully formed enough to make good decisions. And though that's a bad one, I do think she did her time. and that was a really good episode. Thanks guys a lot. Keep your own time chicken. All right. Thanks for the voicemail. I will say this, Gibbs. That episode is one that has

stayed with me because I don't know about you, but I had such a hard time. Kind of reconciling her age. I think she was what, 16 years old, her troubled background versus this really horrible thing that she did. And, you know, where how, how, what line? Where's the line of, you know, you want to condemn this thing that she did, but, and you don't want to let her off the hook. But, you know, I almost felt like maybe I, we came off too harsh in some aspects of that episode. But it's really hard to kind of figure out where that line is. Yeah. You know, coming off the research at the time. You get fired up about it.

And then, you know, you look back afterwards and you thought, ah, maybe I wish I hadn't said this or I hadn't said that. Sometimes that happens to us. Sometimes. But we appreciate the voicemail. But that has stuck with me. We had a couple of things in the mailbag. Mom 7X, who we gave a new patron shout out to, sent you in a ton of Twizzlers.

Oh, yeah. Twizzlers like I've never seen. a huge bag of individually wrapped nibs is what they're called yeah like the little bite size twizzlers she also sent me a big jack lynx sampler pack yeah so i'm very excited about trying all of those a lot of eating there's a lot of eating and then patrick bruno sent us in some cool stuff that he said was for crime con he even sent more some stuff really yeah he sent us each a keychain and each one had one of the three different logos on it. Okay.

And he sent magnetic name plates with the logos of the shows that we each do. So like mine has all three. Yeah. Yours has two. Morph has criminology and a little zodiac sign. Okay. Yeah, it's really cool. It is cool.

And then he also sent me like this really neat metal Kentucky Wildcat placard, like a little sign. It has my name on it and the number one. So I'm very excited about that. They have like number one with a space next to it so you can add the real number? No, because I'm number one. Oh, okay. As far as, you know, Kentucky Wildcats, like number one fan.

You are the number one fan. But appreciate it very much. There's a lot of thought that went into it. Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. And I did appreciate it. Very cool. So that is it, buddy, for another episode of True Crime all the time. So for Mike, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.