True Crime All The Time - Tsutomu Miyazaki

Episode Date: June 27, 2022

Tsutomu Miyazaki is one of the most heinous serial killers in Japanese history. Miyazaki had a terrible childhood filled with neglect and bullying which caused him to retreat into his own fantasy world. But, Miyazaki's fantasy world consisted of the darkest of dark material. He killed four innocent children as he acted out his depraved fantasies of blood lust, cannibalism, and necrophilia.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss an absolutely terrible human being in Tsutomu Miyazaki. His is a case that brings up the questions of nature vs. nurture and what causes an individual to commit these types of acts. Miyazaki claims that his alter ego, Rat Man, was at fault and that he had to obey his commands. Can you really trust the words of a man like Tsutomu Miyazaki whose line between fantasy and reality was so blurred?You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 289 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in True Crime. Mike Gibson, how are you? Man, I'm doing really good. You didn't ask me how I was doing. And how are you doing? How are you doing?

Don't ask me it that way. No, I'm doing great. Good. Hey, listen, we got so much out this weekend. We have a brand new Patreon episode that just dropped last night on Kathleen Dorset. And this is really a story, Gibbs, of what is a family willing to do for you? Yeah. And in the case of Kathleen Dorset, they were willing to help murder her ex-husband.

Yeah. Maybe you need to draw some lines in that sand. Right. There was no lines drawn in this one at all. And then on true crime all the time unsolved, we're talking about the unsolved murders of the DuPont de Legonais family. So we're headed to France. France.

France. Yeah. Yeah, it's 2011. You know, we're going to look at the strange circumstances around the murder of this family. And we'll dive into all the particular. So make sure you check that out. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Elizabeth Gibson.

Hey, Elizabeth. Janelle Biddenstadt. Well, thank you, Janelle. Kisha Clevenger. What's up, Keisha? Ray 27. Hey, Ray. Olga Grinchinko

Well, thank you, Olga. Betty Steele jumped out at our highest level. Hey, Betty. Jericho M. Ross Jr. Thanks, M. Ross Jr. Jenny Heather. Hey, Heather. Tara Spender.

Well, thank you, Tara. Black Panther. You know I like that, Black Panther. I do, too. Love that movie. Alexis Barrett. Hey, Barrett. T.A. Webb.

What's going on, Webb? Gabrielle LeBlanc. Thank you, Gabrielle. Walker, Bichowitz. Walker, like Texas Walker, Ranger. Or Walker. Texas Ranger. Yeah.

Tammy McLaughlin. Hey, Tammy. Bam. Well, thank you, B-A-M. Kylie Hayes. Hey, Kylie. Kristen McWhorter. Hey, Kristen.

And last but not least, Cindy Bates, who jumped out at our highest level. That's awesome. Thanks, Cindy. And then if we go back into the vault. Okay. This week, we selected Lisa Wood Gray. Well, thanks, Lisa. Yeah, we appreciate the new support, the continued support.

We had great PayPal donations from Helen Falk. Hey, Helen. And Kelly Klontz. Well, thank you, Kelly. So thanks to everyone who helps support the show. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time? I'm ready. We are headed to Japan to talk about an evil monster named Sotomu Miyazaki.

So we're international, Gibbs, on both episodes, T-Cat and T-Cat Unsolved. But this was a young man born of incest and despised by most who, knew him, including himself. I don't think he liked himself. He really only had one person who showed him any sort of empathy or love. And when that person died, the switch kind of flipped. And he became one of the most heinous serial killers in Japanese history, killing under the alter ego of Ratman, which was an evil entity that he claimed was his alter ego, who issued him orders that he had to obey. He killed four innocent children as he acted out, you know, depraved fantasies of blood loss, cannibalism, and even necrophilia. So we know what we're in for

in this episode. It's going to be a rough one. It is going to be rough. He was actually in the process of luring a fifth victim when he was caught. His behavior at trial was disturbing. And that disturbing behavior continued all the way up until he was. his death. So there's no doubt we're about ready to enter a dark and disturbing world, the world of the rat man, kind of a nightmarish world created by an unloved, much abused child. You know, Miyazaki would never know the unconditional love of family. He never developed, kind of those much needed bonds of good friends, kind of something that I think a lot of us take for granted. Sure. Instead,

he retreated into a dark fantasy world that kind of grew and grew until he began to act out his dark fantasies in real life on innocent children who were unable to fight back. So this is a guy who was given a lot of names by the Japanese press, the otaku murderer, Dracula, the little girl murderer, and the rat man are just a few of the names given to Satomu Miyazaki by the press following the gruesome murders of four innocent children in Japan and really what was about a 10-month period of time between 1988 and 1989. And I think we'll be exploring some of the themes that you and I talk about quite a bit. You know, what causes a person to act in ways that violate even the most basic social norms?

This is a question that you and I have asked me. times and we'll do so again in this episode. Are killers like Mayazaki born with some sort of frog demon already in place or does their environment twist and pervert and otherwise healthy individual? It's been studied extensively. And I think we definitely know more about killers today than we did, you know, 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago. But I'm not sure Gibbs that anyone has been able to answer this question. Satomu Miyazaki was born in Tokyo in 1962. I already said he was born, you know, of incest.

His mother was also his sister, who was molested repeatedly by his father. Well, that's really disturbing. Yeah, I think it's a wow moment. It is a wow. I mean, I know that I sat back in my chair a little bit, you know, when I, when I've seen that in the research. Yeah, I think there's a lot of things in the research of cases

that kind of jump out at you. This is one that definitely jumped out at both of us. He was born prematurely with several health conditions, really the most prominent being with his wrists in hands. Mayazaki was missing the radial joints of his wrists. You know, that's the one that basically connects the wrist to the hands. And without those, his wrists were fused to his hands in kind of one continuous piece. So just imagine not being able to be able to, to bend your hands at the wrist. Be very awkward. And it would make it tough to do certain things.

Sure. On top of that, his hands would become the source of unrelenting teasing by his school age peers. We've seen that time and time again Gibbs, not really with something like this, because this is, most of the time we see it with something like somebody's name or, you know, something relatively small. It's been reported that he was bullied both at school. but also at home by his sisters who were reportedly disgusted by his misshapen limbs.

It was also said that his sisters laid out rat traps in his room at night so that when he got up in the morning, he would step on them. So they thought this would be funny because why it would leave his feet all bloody from the traps? I don't know. I don't know. We're not painting a real good picture here, right, of home life. And then there was the treatment that he received by his parents, which I think at the very best, you'd have to call it ambivalent, probably leaning more towards criminal. And maybe it was because, you know, he was born out of this incestuous molestation. That, you know, the home was not a place where, you know, there was nurturing, there was love.

And that's something that kids need. you know, especially, you know, during those formative years, kids need that. And when it's not there, you know, what does it do psychologically, socially? I think other people became kind of a source of misery and cruelty to this guy. So I think he got to the point where he just didn't want to be around other people. Well, why would he, right? If he's being bullied at school, if he's being bullied and abused at home, why would you want to be anybody. No, you'd probably want to try to slink off and just do your own thing. And I think that's

what he did. Now, it was said that he was intelligent. And initially he excelled in his academic studies at school. He dreamed of becoming an English teacher. But as he descended into kind of this depression and some other untreated personality disorders that we'll talk about, his grades suffered. And because of that, he was forced to abandon, you know, his plans of college and his plan of becoming an English teacher. So instead, he attended at technical college to study video production and photography, which was a passion for him. He eventually went to work for his father, who ran a successful newspaper business. I've seen some reports that he was a printing assistant, but other report said that, you know, this was a big business. Like a, they were well known. Oh, big,

time paper in that area. In that area, they, you know, they were pretty well known. Now, I'm assuming that most people didn't know much about the father. I would think probably not behind closed doors. Now, as a teenager, you know, we all think back when we were teenagers, right? You started having boyfriends, girlfriends. Yeah. You're developing connections. with your peers. Well, he wasn't doing any of that. He basically turned to the world of fantasy. He was drawn to violent horror films, child pornography, anime, and manga, which these

things basically became everything to him. Pretty much just consumed his day. Yeah. I think this is what he used to get by and what fueled his fantasy world. So there's this term in Japan. otaku. It's a pejorative term that basically refers to individuals with consuming interest. I think a lot of times it's used for people who, you know, are so concentrated on anime and manga. And I knew what anime was. You know, it's huge in Japan. It's pretty big over here now. A lot of people are

really into it. I really wasn't familiar with manga. I had to look that up. It's basically just comics, graphic novels. So it's the non-animated form. Oh, okay. But what I took from, you know, some of the research was that this term otaku, you know, it was really kind of looking down at certain types of people who were like all consumed by some of this stuff. You know, they're viewed as outcast, loners. And I think, you know, you would have to say that this guy kind of fit into that category, probably because it leaves some form of reality behind. And I think for him, he had a reason to want to leave reality behind. I don't think reality for him was a very good thing. Now, Gibbs, you know, we've seen in a lot of cases of serial killers that many of them

had it pretty rough, right, at home growing up to say that some of their families were not nurturing. That would definitely be an understatement. But as we often point out, many people have bad childhoods. They don't grow up to become serial killers or even criminals. One thing that I see in the research quite often is that with many of these serial killers, there tends to be an event that kind of pushes them over the edge. In Miyazaki's case, that event seems to be the death of his grandfather. In 1988, this is the very same year that he committed his first murder. And by all accounts, his grandfather was really the only person in his life with whom he had any type of kind of loving relationship. And it's believed by many that the death of his grandfather precipitated his first

attack. It was also reported that he was so distraught that he ingested a quantity of his grandfather's cremated remains in an attempt to incorporate the physical presence of his deceased grandfather and kind of keep him close to him. Oh, that's bizarre. That's bizarre. I can see people doing that, though. What I mean, I can see how they would justify doing it, you know, if they weren't in the right state of mind.

Well, I think there are a lot of people that we talk about who are able to justify things that maybe you and I couldn't justify or the majority of people listening. couldn't justify. Now, when a lot of people lose somebody, they love like a grandfather, okay, they might wear their watch or they might take their, their pocket knife and carry that with them is kind of a way to keep them close. I don't think what many people would do is eat some of their cremated remains. Yeah. I don't think that's going to be something that enters most people's minds. But that's exactly what he did. So is it a problem that part of my request, if something ever happens to me, that I become part of your steak seasoning? Yeah, it's going to be an issue.

Okay. There's no doubt about it. All right. Well, revisit that. Now, many of these events that seem to push murderers over the edge from fantasy into reality, they're really the same types of things that a lot of us deal with every day, right? The loss of a job, the loss of a relationship, money trouble. things like that and by and large most people get through these issues with the combination of learned coping skills the support of their friends and family people they can turn to during difficult times I think all of us have been in that spot I know I have lost a job I've talked about it openly on this show but I had family I had friends who I could lean on for support but what happens Gibbs number one when you don't have the coping skills, because you never learned them, and you have no friends,

really no family to rely on. I think some of these eventual serial killers lack the ability to deal with these types of stressful events. So they turn inward. They focus on their own problems to the exclusion of everything else. But they also start to focus on fantasies as maybe the solution to some of their problems. And that's concerning, right? It's concerning. I mean, at the very least, I think they turned to fantasy as a form of escape. And maybe you could call that a quasi solution to a problem.

But I think a lot of experts have come out and said, you know, these fantasies are self-soothing to these types of individuals. And some of these people are very accustomed to kind of retreating into their fantasy world. to give them comfort. Yeah, but unhealthy comfort. I would say so.

I don't think experts think it's the healthiest way. Right. To deal with your issues because you're not really dealing with them. Right. You're escaping them. Now, could it work? Sure. Yeah.

I mean, it's an outlet for people. Sure. I think where the issue comes in and what we'll see in this case is, you know, what type of fantasy are you dealt? shelving into or are you diving into. If it's a dark fantasy, a twisted, a perverted fantasy, well, then you're most likely going to have an issue.

Yeah. And I think that's where a lot of serial killers kind of fall into. There's no doubt that's where Miyazaki fell into for sure, because we're going to see his fantasy world is dark. But there's no doubt, I think over the years that he had developed a pretty rich fantasy life. And then when his grandfather died, that's really when everything seemed to turn bad. Beginning in June 1988, his behavior began to spiral, culminating in four murders between August 1988 and June 1989. At one point, he was discovered filming his sisters while they were

bathing. He was confronted and he got violent over that. He also reacted aggressively when it was discovered that he had been consuming his grandfather's cremated remains. So your kids are going to do stuff that you don't like. Sure. Right. Things you might have to call them out on. I think videotaping your sisters naked while they're taking a bath. Not okay.

Not okay. We're going to have to have a talk about you eating your grandfather's remains. I just think we're going to, it's something that we're going to have to discuss. Can't keep that up. But you can't because eventually you're going to run out of granddad. That's true. The other thing that was said about Maizaki was that he was big time into kind of deviant pornography. I mean, we're talking child pornography, things like that.

He also began trolling for child victims who he could dominate and easily control. So we know bad things are about to happen. And I think to tell the story properly, we kind of almost have to work backwards. and start in February of 1989, that's when the parents of little Marie Cono received a package in the mail. Gives, when they opened it, they discovered bones, some ash, of their four-year-old daughter who had been missing for about six months. They had assumed that she had wandered into the nearby forest, maybe drowned in the river, but there was no doubt about what they received because also in the box was a Polaroid picture of Marie,

a bag containing 10 of her baby teeth, and a note that read, there are devils about. So there's a package that would haunt you for a long time. Ever. Yeah. You're not, you're not getting over that.

But it's also a pattern that we're going to see with Maizaki. Not only does he abduct and murder children, but he also taunts the parents. of these children. Sends them things, notes. He calls them and he does the same to police. And we'll talk about it as we go through.

So obviously they took this box to the authorities. And it was really at this point from my understanding that police had to admit that they had a serial predator on the loose because by this time, they had received some letters from the perpetrator taunting them. Marie was the third known child to be abducted since August 1988. So authorities held a press conference and they issued warnings to parents and children to be on the lookout because there was a dangerous predator on the loose. What wasn't known at the time is that little Marie was the rat man's first victim,

but she wouldn't be his last. So I don't know how much Gibbs you and I have talked about parapherias, on TCAT. You know, I think this is what used to be called fetishes before that, perversions. You know, a parapheria is the experience of intense and sometimes dangerous sexual arousal in response to atypical items. So like shoes. People get aroused by shoes.

Yeah. So they call that a parapheria. Or it can be situations like voyeurism or, you know, dirty talk on the telephone. I've seen that listed as well. Or it can be individuals such as small children. So the word is Greek derived from para meaning other and philia meaning love. So it describes an attachment or fixation that is either forbidden by conventional society or prohibited by law, often both.

So like using knives and... Well, I think if you were a person who was sexually aroused, by a knife. I'm assuming that would be considered a parapheria. Are you trying to tell us something? No. Okay. No.

You brought up a knife and you are well known for, you know, having a lot of knives, having an interest in knives. Vacuum cleaner, yes. Oh, yeah. I don't want to know anything about that. That came off wrong. Now word from our sponsor, BetterHelp. You know, we're living in some stressful times.

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today. Go to Shopify.com slash T-Cat right now. Shopify.com slash teacap. As he explains in his book, Murder City, Professor and ex-detective Michael Arnfield describes the current theory on how parapherias develop. Most parapherias are thought to develop in early childhood, usually as part of emotionally or sexually traumatic experiences. By the time a child reaches puberty,

when individuals experiment with different scenarios or sexual partners and objects, these parapherias have become hardwired into their personality and sexuality. Most, though, never escalate into the realm of criminality. So, I mean, I think that's a big distinction. I think so, too. I mean, there are a lot of people, and you and I have broached this subject before, who are into things that others might deem as strange or maybe things that go against conventional norms.

Right. Sexually. Yes. But they're not hurting anybody. No. So what's the harm? Yeah, as long as they're not hurting anybody. I mean, that's the key, right?

Yeah. You want to wear a big diaper? Do what you got to do. If you're with somebody else, as long as it's consensual, they're into it too. Hey, I got new issues. My issue is when people are into something and they force somebody else. else to do something. Now, we're going to have a big issue in this case because we're talking about underage children, small children. Now, we do talk about psychopaths a lot. You can have a psychopath who also

happens to be a parapheriac, basically, you know, someone who constantly places his own sexual gratification and need for power ahead of the feelings of others. That person will often progress to experimenting with what are termed attack parapherias, which are basically indulgences and fantasy enactment that require violence against others or non-consenting partners. Okay. None of that is going to be good. No. Or okay.

No, that's alarming. And to me, I think it's the need to act on these impulses. A lot of the stuff I read talked about how it's not well thought out, like these decisions that people make, it's more of a compulsion that dates back to the person's childhood when that person's psychosexual development was first imprinted. Some experts believe the formation of parapherias have both an environmental and biological explanation. Necrophilia, for example, has been affiliated with diminished intelligence and compromised brain development in a number of case studies.

along with parental neglect and sexual prohibition in the home during the child's developmental years. Necrophilia is also disproportionately overrepresented in individuals who have a paralyzing fear of rejection or abandonment. And it's been theorized that these factors can be traced directly to Miyazaki's childhood and resulting criminal psychology. So I found that pretty interesting. It kind of lets us know where his mind is. Yeah, I think from maybe a scientific standpoint or what people believe kind of helps us gain some insight into not only what he's thinking, but maybe why. Yes. And that's kind of the thing we're always striving for.

But there's no doubt, Gibbs, that once he committed his first murder and had, you know, indulged in some of his depraved sexual fantasies. He wanted more. Just a month later. After he murdered Marie Kono, he abducted seven-year-old Masami Yoshizawa off the street as she walked to school, then drove her to the same forest preserve where he had taken his last victim. He strangled Masami and was having sex with her corpse when it was said Gibbs, she regained consciousness and came back to life. He was. He He was so startled this guy that he ran away. I think he thought she was dead. Yeah.

She obviously was not, but he basically left her there to die from her extensive injury. He didn't know what to think. I know what I think. He's a sick son of a bitch. Oh, no doubt about that. On December 12th,

1988, Maizaki was again out cruising for a child to abduct when he happened upon Erica Namba, who had just been to the store to buy Candy, he forced her into his car and drove again to the same forest. He'd brought his previous two victims. He ordered her to take off her clothes. And when she refused, he strangled her to death. But it did come out that little Erica fought hard for her life. And she left some very deep scratches on his face. She almost bit off his ear. She's tough. But once she was dead,

Maizaki engaged in necrophilic axe with her corpse. He then wrapped her in a white sheet and left her in the nature preserve. When he got back to his car, two men who had observed him, asked him what he had been doing and why he had these, you know, very deep scratches on his face. He made up an excuse saying that his car had gotten stuck and he had fallen down trying to push it free. Police discovered Erica Namba's body. body a week later, still wrapped in the white sheet. But now they had witnesses because these two men

went to the local authorities with the description of this man that they had seen all scratched up in the woods the day Erica went missing. Which is great, right? Now we had the police are trying to locate this serial killer. But Miyazaki would claim one final victim before he was captured. Five-year-old Ioko Nomoto was playing alone. the tennis courts where Maya Zaki often went to photograph girls in their short tennis

skirts. So he was a it was a voyeur. He was into all kinds of stuff but it all related to children. His pornography, everything for him and his fantasies revolved around young children. He asked the young

girl if he could take her photo and he got her to his car by promising her candy. The old candy trick. She's only five years old. Yeah. But what he later said was that she laughed at his hands. And when she did that, he beat her unconscious.

He then drove her to his home where he cut off her arms, legs, and her head. He ate parts of her hands and had sex with her cords. Wow. It's tough. Tough to stomach. I mean, the details are what they are. but they are very, very tough. Her last words were really hard to hear.

I want my mother. Yeah. You almost don't know what to say after that. I don't think there is something, man. Because you can picture a little girl so frightened that all she wants in the whole world is her mommy. Yeah. The Los Angeles Times reported that the little girl's torso was found in a suburban Tokyo cemetery several days after. she was reported missing.

But he's escalating here, Gibbs, right? I mean, each one of these murders and abductions is brutal, but now we're into, you know, dismemberment and, you know, is he experimenting? I don't know. What he did with Nemoto is he filmed the entire thing. And police would later get their hands on this recording and it would be used later at his trial. I mean, sick and disturbing. I'm glad the police had it for the trial, but I can't imagine anybody sitting there having to review that. No, and it's something that we don't always take into

account. You know, being on a jury is tough. We talked about that. But being really forced to view grisly images and videos, you know, that sometimes is part of a trial. And a jury has to sit there and and view that evidence. It can't be easy. But you have the abduction and murder of another little girl. And really what it did was it sent the city of Tokyo into a panic, right? Parents were worried about their children, worried, was it going to be their child? That would be the next one to disappear. You know, so this is a universal thing because we talk about this in cases from every part of the world. when you have some type of serial predator on the loose, especially when it involves small children,

parents are going to take notice. And I think that's where, you know, a lot of parents are going to lock it down. No, you can't go to the corner store. You can't even play in, in the front yard or the backyard.

You're going to be attached to my hip because I don't want to let you out of my side. I can't take that chance. Ioko Nomoto would be. Mayazaki's last victim because as we see with a lot of serial killers, he began taking bigger and bigger risks, which ultimately led to his capture. He was in a park in Western Tokyo where he saw two sisters playing outside. He tried to lure them both to join him in his car, but the older one wasn't having it. She ran home. But the younger child was taken into his car and driven a

short distance, still within the park, though. But I mentioned it. He was becoming more reckless. This was a public area. He was really taking a big chance of being discovered because he molested this child essentially out in the open. He's in a park. He got undressed completely naked and then began taking pictures of this young girl. It was even reported that he inserted the lens of the camera into her genitals. This guy is really, really sick. Yeah, we've covered some sick ones. And this guy is right up there with them.

But it was at this point that the older sister returned to the park. She went and got her father. And Maizaki was discovered in the act of molesting this child. And you can imagine what happened next. The same thing that any father would do. This guy beat the shit out of it. of him. You want to see a father come unglued. You want to see rage personified. That's going to happen when a father discovers a grown man. He's 26, 27 years old, but a grown man

molesting his young daughter. You're not going to be able to pull that guy off. Now, Miyazaki was able to run away, to get away, but he was naked, ran into the woods. When he tried to go back to his car about an hour later. So he tried to wait it out. Didn't work. Police were there waiting for him. The father had obviously called police. He was taken into custody because of what he had just been doing. Sure. But he also matched to the description of the suspect in the child disappearances that had been occurring in recent months. So now they have him. They have him. The next thing that they did was they conducted a search of his room and Gibbs, they discovered close to 6,000 videotapes containing hardcore pornography, recorded acts of voyeurism, child abuse, and violently graphic anime.

And it said hardcore pornography, but my assumption is a lot of that was probably child pornography. Yeah. One tape held this disturbing series called the Guinea. Pig series. I don't know what it is and I didn't even want to look it up. Yeah. Because I was afraid of what I might see. But it depicts gore and guts set among bizarre comedy sketches.

I'm not even sure what that is. But I know it's something that I didn't want to view. Authority said they discovered over 500 videos with footage recording his sisters in the shower or bathing. 500 videos. How many hours is that? Another tape contained almost five minutes of footage featuring a child victim he had mutilated. Yeah, quite the collection.

Well, and I think it was this collection, really, that provided a glimpse into his fantasies, which were, you know, some of the darkest, most deviant that you could have, fusing sexual gratification with murder, death, and gore. the police interrogated Maizaki for four weeks until he finally confessed it was reported that he was completely unremorseful as he gave out details

of the four murders he had committed it was also said that he seemed almost happy and proud to recount every heinous detail of the murders now he did help lead the police to Ioko Nomoto Skull but during his police

interrogation. His behavior was said to have been very bizarre. He blamed the acts of cannibalism, vampireism, and necrophilia on his alter ego, rat man. So he brought up rat man. Now, it's been said that Miyazaki constructed this persona because it allowed him to disassociate himself, basically blamed someone else for all these horrible things that he did. Kind of like a Jekyll and Heights scenario. Yeah, I think that's a good way to put it. And even this can be traced back to the death of his grandfather because what he later said was that he promised Ratman that if he conceded to his alter ego's violent desires, his grandfather would be returned to him. Which was his most important person in his life, his grandfather. I want to talk about a brand that my wife really loves,

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who forced him to act on his commands. And at other times, he said Ratman controlled him from inside. I'm getting a real David Berkowitz vibe here with the dog. Yeah. Like the dog is telling him to to murder people. Myzaki said that the murders were all part of dreams. And he denied that they even occurred in real life or that if they did, he had any control because it was all rat man. Now, he did admit to drinking the blood of one of his victims and taunting both the police. And police and the victim's families through his writing. So he's got all the details, but he's saying he was not in control. It was rat man. Yeah. Who was in total control. He had no choice, but to follow his command. Yeah. It's not our

first time hearing this. No, I think there's been a lot of serial offenders who have developed an alter ego, something that they can, you know, blame their deviant acts on. Ted Bundy, had his, he called it the entity, John Wayne Gacy had one he named Jack Hanley. You know, it kind of seems to be a way that, that an individual can compartmentalize the good and bad aspects of their personality. In addition to allowing them to distance themselves from the offensive behavior. So, you know, if you're Gacy, you know, you're doing all this good stuff for the community. Right. You're Pogo the clown. So that's you. That's you. That's you. You're, you gasey.

Yeah. But the murdering of all these boys, that's not me. No. That's my alter ego. That's Jack. I think for me, the thing is, how do you figure out when these individuals are telling the truth or not? I mean, to be honest with you, Gibbs, I normally lean towards the fact that they're not

telling the truth, that they're making some of this up. We know with Berkowitz, right? I think he admitted that he made that part of. I don't know about Bundy and Gacy if they ever, if they ever said that. I don't remember. But I look at the way that Maizaki was raised. Maybe he did have to find another personality to deal with certain things in his life. Well, I do believe that it does happen to people. Can some people be forced to compartmentalize like that? I think it does happen. But the problem that I think, crops up in every episode, or at least most of them when you're dealing with stuff like this, is when is it real? And when is it just someone who knows they're caught and they're trying

to either find a way out or they're trying to minimize their role in these horrible things that they've done? They know they did them, but it's easier for them to blame it on an alter ego. But I can't say for sure that everyone's making it up, right? We do know that people develop split personalities. Could that be what someone might call an alter ego? Possibly. Could be. But there's no doubt that the crimes of Satomu Maizaki had a significant impact on Japanese culture.

The media kind of pushed this image that he represented the Ataku culture as a whole. And that basically he was a warning to anybody involved in this lifestyle. They vilified anime. They vilified manga. And really that kind of culture overall. They labeled him the otaku murderer. So really what they did was they used a very broad brush to paint a large population of individuals who were into all this stuff as basically the same as

Mayazaki. It was estimated in 2014 gives that 22% of the Japanese population identified with this otaku culture, which based on population records was about 27 million people. That's a lot of people. It is. And it's probably higher today. It probably is. I know it's very popular. But isn't this the same thing that happens in the United States? You know, go back to a case like the Memphis three. Yeah. You've got these three guys kids that people believed were murderers. They dressed all in black.

They listened to heavy metal music. So anytime somebody with a certain interest is thought to be or turns out to be a murderer, other people with that same interest kind of get tainted, right? Just by association. It's not right. But it definitely happens. and apparently it happens all over the world. So now we get into the trial.

And, you know, his trial started in 1990. What I thought was fascinating was that it spanned seven years. So, I mean, a lot of that was due to mental health aspects. And I'm not going to go into, you know, every piece of it. It was reported that his mothers and sisters visited him. They brought him comic books. But his father, he basically disowned him. He didn't want to have anything to do with him.

And he took his life in 1994 as the trial was still going on. Mayazaki definitely displayed bizarre behavior during the trial. He was observed talking to himself constantly about his alter ego, rat man. Maybe he was talking to rat man. I don't know. He told the jury that what he did were acts of benevolence and that he was actually doing his victims a favor by killing them. Wow. That's his statement, huh? That's what he believed. Now, I'm telling you right now, if you're the parent of a murder child and you hear this guy say that

in court, it's going to take every deputy you got to hold me back. Sure it is. Some psychologists who examined him deemed him legally saying yet they said he suffered from schizophrenia, while other psychologist said that he had no recognizable mental disorder at all. One psychiatrist, Dr. Susuma Oda, told the court, Sotomu killed for enjoyment as thrill killings combined with his dissociative disorder. The murders he committed were considered characters in a comic book. That was his life. He was a pedophile first and a killer second.

And it was through these killings that he was able to possess. the children in their entirety and show his interest in them, which I can only assume is his twisted view of love and care. That's a very powerful statement. It really is. I mean, the first thing that jumped out at me was pedophile first, killer second. And that does make some sense to me. You know, I think the fantasy life turns into reality. We've seen that time and time again, you know, if he started with the child pornography and the voyeurism of his sisters and things like that, and then eventually got to the point where he decided he was going to kill. What really jumps out at me is this person saying that, you know, him thinking that he was

showing interest in these children was his view of love and. and care. My assumption is that the psychiatrist is saying he had no idea what love and care really was because he never experienced any of it. As a child growing up, as far as I know, he had no romantic connections whatsoever throughout his life, but to want to be able to possess them. And if he really did think he was doing a good thing, which he said, that's messed up. At the conclusion, of his trial in 1997, Mayazaki was convicted of all four murders. He was sentenced to death.

The chief justice at his trial would later explain the reasoning behind his death and saying the atrocious murder of four girls to satisfy his sexual desires leaves no room for leniency. I don't know if I've ever agreed with the statement more. I agree. I don't think I could agree with the statement any more than I agree with this. one. Perfectly said. Now, if you're anti-death penalty, I get it, you might not agree. But if the death penalty is available, who would deserve it more than someone like this who callously murdered

for young girls, the sexual aspect, the mutilation, the drinking of blood? I mean, there's just so much involved. And then when he was later asked, if he was, would apologize to the family of the children he murdered. He said that he had done a good job. Those were his words. I did a good job. Okay. He showed no remorse for sending the postcards, the ashes, the bones, making the phone calls, taunting the families, the victims. So here again, you know, I have to ask the question, real or not real. I don't know that there's any way for me to definitively answer the question. I always wonder, Gibbs, as we go through some of these cases, what's real and what's for show? I mean, he had a really messed up childhood. He did. And there's no way

around that. He absolutely did. Did it twist him? That's a big question, right? Nature versus nurture. Was he born with this frog demon inside him? And no matter what his childhood was like, would he have gone on to do these really bad things. Or if he had a loving, nurturing family, would he have grown up respecting people, the law, and not have had any of these desires and or acted upon them? I don't know the answer. And I don't know the answer of whether he truly believed that he had done a good job. It seems so strange to to say. or whether that's bravado. We know some of these serial killers.

They say things they don't actually mean because they want to, they want to go out big and bad. Sessatialize? Sure. Because what do they have to lose? In some cases, I think they, you know they're going to put you to death.

I think some of them come to the conclusion that I'm going to say whatever I want. I'm going to shock people. But as crimes alone are shocking. Oh, yeah, absolutely shocking. Some of the worst that we've covered. Mayazaki's death warrant was signed and he was executed by hanging on the same day,

June 17th, 2008, at the age of 45. His last words as he was taken to the gallows were, I'm going to get you, Batman, I swear, if it's the last thing I do. And people were dumbfounded by this. They just couldn't make any sense of it. I think some of the Japanese papers had a field day with his last words. I think it also illustrates the difference between Japan and the U.S. when it comes to putting people to death.

So the very same day that his death warrant was signed, he was hanged. The Associated Press reported that Miyazaki was executed along with two other men, Sinji Matsuda and Yoshio Yamasaki. The AP also wrote that capital punishment faces little opposition in Japan. and that convicts languish on death row for decades before they are suddenly hanged with no advance notice. So some similarities and some differences with us here in the U.S. Sure. People can spend a very long time on death row before they're put to death, if they're even put to death at all. What I think is very different is that over there,

and I'm sure this article was some years ago, but I think it was, like 2008 at this article. So things might have changed. But they were basically just plucking people off of death row and saying today you're going to die. Today's your day. Yeah. There's no, okay, we're setting your date and it's three months, six months down the road. No, today's the day. And we're signing it and you're being hanged. Well, maybe it keeps that anxiety from building up into that criminal's mind. Well, yeah, how can you have anxiety when they don't tell you ahead of time that, you're about ready to hang. But that means you get no bucket of KFC. You get, I can't imagine you get anything extra because if you got something good, you'd know, you'd know. And that would give it away.

In this article, they cited a rise in executions with Mayazaki's being the 13th in the first six months of 2008 when only one person was executed in Japan and all of 2005. So I took from the article that, you know, at that point, they had a real. pro death penalty type of administration. They were starting to execute a lot more people. But the whole no advance notice thing, I mean, does your family even know ahead of time?

Or do they just find out afterwards that you've been hanged? I don't know. Or maybe they find out the same time to say, come on up. If you can get here within X amount of time, I don't know. And they may not even allow people to witness executions in Japan. because I don't think a lot of other countries do.

Other countries that actually have the death penalty. I don't know if they allow spectators like we do. But there's no doubt Gibbs that, you know, there are questions that remain. And I think the debate continues over this nature, nurture thing. Is it one? Is it the other? Is it a combination of both that helps create, you know, some of these serial killers? As we're wrapping up this episode, you know,

mentioned it, right? No doubt this guy's family life was rough. His sister was his mother, for one thing. Combined that with the physical issues that I think for him, he considered significant shortcoming. Sure. The bullying, the teasing, all of that. And then you had the loss of his grandfather, who was really the only person that probably had shown him any love whatsoever. It kind of all seems to go into the mix, right? You got to all, you have to throw it all in there. So, you know, he was bullied at school. Then he was bullied at home. And it seemed like he retreated into his own little world. Yeah, he wasn't getting a lot of love at home. I think he did retreat into his own fantasy world. The problem with his fantasy world, as opposed to other people's, because I think a lot of

people might at times retreat into kind of fantasy or whatever. The problem with his was that it was very dark and it was sadistic. It was criminal. It was, you know, child pornography and violence. And ultimately, as we see with many, many serial killers, they can only live in the fantasy for so long. Eventually, these people break out from the fantasy and they make it. it a reality. Yeah. But hell, his fantasy was even illegal. Oh, yeah.

With the type of child pornography and things that, what, 6,000 videos? Yeah. He's a monster. Yeah, no doubt about it. But I'm still left. Unable to answer some of these questions, right? You and I continue to examine them. I don't know if we'll ever be able to find definitive answers to some of these questions.

what I think we both would agree on is that Sotomayazaki was a POS of the highest order. To do what he did to four young girls would have been five, right? If the older sister and dad hadn't done what they did. Absolutely. It's just horrible all the way around. But the other thing that I will say is there are themes that just seem to keep popping up in some of these episodes. You have the bad childhoods. You have the fantasy life that ultimately becomes reality. We seem to see some of that time and time again. But I will state because I feel like I always have to do this.

I think a lot of people have bad childhoods. I think a lot of people probably retreat to fantasy life, get immersed in different types of fantasy worlds or whatever you want to call them, but they don't go out and do bad things. So again, what is it that causes some people to go further, to want to kill, to want to act out some of their dark fantasies in the real world? Yeah. I think part of that is, is that they acted out. And I think because I hate to use the word successful, but they're successful at their first attempt. They don't get caught. Well, and not only are they successful to use that word, meaning they,

they don't get caught, they like it. And that's a scary aspect to it. Obviously, they derive a thrill, uh, uh, something from it because they want to do it again, again and again. Right. But that's it for our episode on Satomu Maazaki. Wow. Just, I mean, absolutely brutal.

No way around it. We got some voicemails though, Gibbs. You want to check those out? Yes, hear those. Hi, my name is Julie from Canada. I actually just recently discovered your podcast and love at first down. You guys are absolutely amazing. And even though I'm sad that I only discovered you recently, I'm also excited because I see how many episodes you have done and how much binging I can do just to catch up to where you're at now.

So yeah, I listen to you guys all the time. I'm just trying to get through your episodes amazing. and a little bit of a crush on both of you. And you have the amazing work. M-M-M-Wa. Kiss from Canada. I'm blushing. You are.

You are. You know, what am I going to do? No, we love it. We appreciate it. Now, what I don't know is if she's listening front to back, first to last. About side to side? Not side to side to side. Some people will listen to the newest ones and then go back and keep track until they get

caught up. Yeah. If that makes sense. If she's not doing it that way, it may be a while. I always tell everybody to get some pen and paper out, write all the episode numbers down, fold them, throw them into like a hat or a bowl and just pick out a random number. Is that what you tell everybody? No. But it would be.

It's a lot of work. I know. I do tell some people that. You know what they have is, I think, an app that just generates random numbers. Oh, it just spins and gives you a number? Yeah. I think you can just put in like one to 289. Yeah.

That would make a lot more sense and be a lot easier. But I know you're old school. I know. Because you're. That would probably help the environment. You're up there. Hi, Mike and Giddy. This is Katie in North Carolina.

I just wanted to say I love the show. To be honest, I want to apologize. I feel like I've been a little biased over the years. I've mostly exclusively listened to True Crempt. podcast by female hosts. And it wasn't really viving with your show when I first started it, but I've honestly, I've grown to love it.

I love how in depth you guys go, your chemistry, you're just very pragmatic and rational approach to analyzing these cases and still, you know, incorporating your kind of quirky, fun banter and points of view. So I just wanted to say

you guys are awesome. I'm really enjoying the podcast. keep up the good work and keep your own time ticking. Have a good day, y'all. Well, great. Thanks for the voicemail. Yeah. Glad you gave us another try. Definitely glad you hung in there and enjoy it now.

Hey, y'all. This is Helen Falk. I'm down here in Christiana, Tennessee, and I just want to let y'all know I love y'all. I love your podcast. I just, by chance, run across it last March, and I've listened to all the true crime all the time. Now I'm on Unsolved.

And I do have a recommendation, Shelling no tech. She was an evil, evil woman. But guys, keep up the great work. I love y'all. Have a good day.

Keep your head on this, whip. Bye-bye. You know, that song, Evil Woman just came in my mind. Why don't you give us a couple bars? Well,

legally, I'm not allowed to. It's not in my contract. Oh, that is true. So we appreciate the voicemail and the suggestion. I mean,

a lot of people probably don't think we do, but we do write down all the suggestions. And we end up doing episodes that people call in about all the time. You don't know there's an app to put things like that on, right? Instead of writing it down. Well, I used the words, write it down, but it's actually typing into an Excel spreadsheet. Oh.

Trust me. I got the technology. All right. We didn't have any mail bag this week. So that's it, Gibbs, for another episode of True Crime all the time. So for Mike. And Gibby. Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.