True Crime All The Time - Wayne Adam Ford

Episode Date: February 19, 2018

Wayne Adam Ford was a man that was battling a great deal of anger. This anger stemmed from what he saw as being abandoned by those in his life. Ford knew that he had some homicidal impulses in his head and checked himself into mental health facilities on multiple occasions. But he would not follow through with treatment and would ultimately descend into the darkness, becoming a serial killer.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the circumstances around the serial killer Wayne Adam Ford. What was it in his childhood that may have contributed to the monster that he would ultimately become? Who were the people in his life that in his mind had abandoned him causing so much rage to build up? Ford is unusual among serial killers in the fact that he was not caught by police, he turned himself in and would detail the reason behind giving himself up.You can help support the show by going to patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact and merchandise information.Credits:Writing/Research - Maggie DobschuetzSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

everyone and welcome to episode 66 of the true crime all the time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime Mike Gibson. Give me what is going on. What's happening, man? Not a whole lot good. Let me put it that way. You're feeling pretty bad. My whole family has been kicked around by this flu and I know a lot of people have man. It's going around. Yeah. And you know, to the point where we were in danger of not being. enabled to tape this week. Yeah, you sounded really bad yesterday. Yeah, we kept putting it off and putting it off and thank you for inviting me into the flu infested facility here. But finally made the decision that we just didn't want to, you know, leave that that gaping hole there with no

podcast. So we're going to suffer through. Yeah. But I just want to put it out up front. the, we'll see how the quality goes. Yeah. Well, I'm just glad you're closing your gaping hole. Yeah, closing my gaping hole. I just got to figure out how long my, my voice will last and, you know, if it cracks, it cracks, whatever. I've got your back, man. I know. Gibby's going to have to step up. I normally do anyway. What are you talking about? Do you not, you probably edit me out, don't you? They probably don't realize how much I talk. I look over and you're not even there. You're over doing something. I know. Or doze off.

You have to wake me up sometime. I'm just messing. But I am going to have to rely on the Gimster this week. We're seeing. I have faith in you. You're pulled out. So let's talk about our new Patreon supporters. Yes.

We actually had a lot of support over the last couple weeks, which is great because, you know, every month we have people that drop off. And that's natural in this type of scenario. You just hope it balances out. Yeah. And so we need those new supporters. to help replace people that, you know, drop off. And we had Brittany Frazier.

Yeah. Kristen Miller. Awesome. Brian Butts. B.B. Sounds like a middle linebacker name. It does, doesn't he? Kelly Louise.

Kelly Louise, get inside the house. Is that your, is that your, uh, great, great grandma voice? Yeah, great farmhouse, great grandma voice. Yeah. Kim Pasquilini. Pasquiline. me. Oh, I forgot. I didn't say it like Mario or Luigi from, hey, Nintendo. Or Chef Boyardee. Chef Bardi, yeah. Which is how you say it. Heather Easley jumped out to our highest level.

Easily. Did it very easily. Yes, she did. Kelly Hill at Phoebe Abdul, Paula's sister. Or the person from friends. Oh, Phoebe from Friends. Phoebe Buffet or buffet. buffet buffet Phoebe buffet or Phoebe Cates from Fast Times at Ridgemont High You know I don't know Gibbs

People our age You remember these movies From your childhood Absolutely And there's a few scenes that are Just kind of like seminal moments You won't forget them Yeah

For me that was one of them That was that scene in Fast Times At Ridgemont High Was some type of turning point in my life, I think. We don't want to know what turning point. I will say what type of turning point it was. Yeah. We had Lauren Kirk.

Yeah. Kristen Kendall. Sure. Famous. May be related to a Jenner or Kardashian. It sounds like one of those names. I think Kendall is the first name of a Kardashian. Right. So I don't know how she could relate it to them because her last name is Kendall.

But hey, I like the way you think. We had Michael Hopkins. Yeah. May or may not be related. it to Anthony Hopkins. You wish. But if he is, that is kick ass. Running around the house with bologna on their face.

Can you imagine saying my brother was Hannibal Lecter? I think he'd just say my brother is Anthony Hopkins and Sir Anthony Hopkins. I would be knighted. You should be knighted. I do. I'll do it. Can I get knight? I mean, I doubt I'd get knighted in England.

No, we'll do it here in the studio. I don't want, because you have some certificate off the internet that you are officially to knight me. And I will try. trying not to lop one of those big ears off as I'm doing the nighting ceremony. Yeah. At least my ears got hair covering it. I don't think that's a good thing. No, I'm in on the out. Not here. That didn't sound right. I don't think you want that. Scratch that people. We had Allison Howard come out to our highest level. Awesome. Thank you so much. Athena Dawn. Athena. Very cool name. Princess

warrior type. Yeah, I just want to call and say, hey, Athena. How you doing? Sucka free podcast. Okay. Like, I'm going to get you, Sucker. I get you Sucker. I haven't listened to it, but they're helping to support us. Awesome. Thank you, Sucker. Hopefully it's not something that inappropriate. Inappropriate that we would not approve of. But I'm going to, I'm going to check it out because they are supporting this. Yeah, you should check it out before you mentioned. I should have. Yeah. Christy Kruck Skinner. The Krook Skinner. Colleen Conner. Yeah, Cic. Sivacua Loughlin. Oh, there you go. Civilquois. Very cool name. It is cool. We had Robert Sabo came out at our highest level. Yeah, thank you.

Dinar Gollets or Gollets. Okay. Well, I'm going to let it roll. Yeah, we'll see. Nicky Preston. Thank you, Nikki. And Allison Hardwick. Awesome. Thank you. And then if we go back into the Patreon vault, big special shout out to Janet Graydon. Been with us for a long time. She has. Thank you, supporting us month after month, and that's amazing. And we had a lot of support on PayPal as well, Gibbs. We had Keita Palace. Keta. Shelly Williams. Thank you, Shelly. James Dolan and Nicole Barvian both made sizable contributions. Awesome. Michelle Mason and Aki, a solo.

Hans Relative? Maybe. Why don't you just do all of your different dialects that you're so good at? and we'll hit on one. Yeah. That all sound either Scottish or English. And I sure I won't offend anybody. I'm sure you won't.

So big shout out to everybody that supports us, new supporters, the people that've been with us a long time and all of our social media peeps. Absolutely. We have the best, best fans. Gotta give a shout out to Maggie for writing and research on this episode. Want to mention quickly CrimeCon. If you're going to sign up, make sure you use that. our promo code T-Cat with two T's on the end, you'll get 10% off your standard badge.

And then on Unsolved episode out right now, the Icebox murders. Yeah, chilling. Fred and Edwina Rogers. I got that pun, by the way. Did you? I was just trying to see if you could pick up on my subtleties. I did, but I was already heading down a road, so I had to double back. Yeah.

And this is one that I don't even know. I just don't want to give too much away. I want people to tune in and listen to the details of this case. Check it out. Merch Smart. Check our merch smart out. Good stuff. Yeah, people really liking the embroidered merchandise especially.

The embroidered, brubberd stuff looks really good. We even got a picture out on the TCAT family page. Joan modeled some of the pants and they looked sharp. Yeah, no, they were very good looking. The pet bandanas look good. Some fleeces have been popping up. They look really good. So, yeah, get yourself some T-Cat merch.

Now, Gibbs, I know we usually say voicemails to the end, but we have an urgent voicemail that came in for you. We've got to address this. We've got a big problem on our hands here. Yes, hello. I'm trying to reach Mr. Mike Gibson. This is Agent Moore, a profiler at the Atlanta FBI field office. It has come to my attention that you have been candidly bragging

about a series of attacks, several ending in homicides using a K-bar knife, all across the country. And I just wanted to let you know, I'm on the case now. And I'm going to make my career out of nailing your ass to the wall. I'm going to make ASAT here in Atlanta, taking you down your piece of shit.

I'm coming for you to give you. you won't get away with this anymore. You can no longer hurt people and brag about it. I love the podcast. So I heard that voicemail and kind of gives himself away a little bit when he wasn't sure what his last name was. Yeah. Agent something. Right.

And, but I got a kick out of it, right? He's going on. He's saying, he's funny. He's coming after you. And he actually says he's going to make ASAC, which I thought was funny. That was funny. And then right at the very end, right? He gives a great pause.

Right. And then he says, oh, yeah, and I love the podcast. Yeah. So I wanted to play that one up front just because I got a kick out of the way that, that, that, that, uh, that he did it. It was good. But we've got to get into our, our story here, Gibbs. We are talking about Wayne Adam Ford, serial killer, but different than anything we've ever done before. in one very particular way.

Wayne Adam Ford, and we'll get into it, right, all the details as we always do, but he actually turned himself in. We're on episode 66, so we know from having done a number of these

and researched many, many more. That's a rarity. It really is. Not the norm by any standard. No, how many serial, killers actually have a conscience to begin with or develop one after they've committed their crimes, I don't know.

Not even serial killers. A lot of people just, just conscious. Yeah, regular, regular killers. Regular killers? I just met people in general. Oh, you just mean non-killers. Yeah, non-killers. But I get you.

But no, you're right. You're right. Just every day, you know, the guy that sits next to you in your office. Really? Half of those people don't even have. You know something I don't know about him? Well, you should keep your eye on him. That's for sure.

I know he's been acting a little strange lately. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well. I just go through life assuming that everybody has a dark side. Yeah. Everyone is capable of doing something bad. Not saying they will.

So sitting across from you right now is Gibby. Well, you're not even in the same ballpark, dude. So you, no concerns. No. That's what I'm saying. You're at another level. Yeah. I've got, I pay someone to stand in the corner in a sniper's perch. You don't even see them. I don't see them. Right. So if you were to move too quickly, hey, it's over. I would never hurt your, your wife or your kids. But if I crossed you, no. No. You go down, but your wife and kids, they're all right. Yeah, they're good. Yeah. We joke around, but it's really, it is kind of true. I don't know what it says about me, but I do tend to err on the side of caution. Sure. Whereas I think when I was younger, I just assumed everybody was good.

Yeah. And I would bet you if you asked, if we took a poll of our listeners that ever since they started listening to true crime, that they would say they're very skeptical of people now. than they were before. And much more cautious, but is that a bad thing? Well, I don't know if it's a bad thing, but it definitely can slow you down in things. Well, yeah. I'm not saying you shouldn't trust anybody or you shouldn't develop relationships. I'm really talking more about, you know, how I say all the time, you know, keep your head on a swivel.

Yeah. I'm always on the lookout for something that doesn't look right or feel right. You say keep your head on a swivel, but then again, you also say let your freak flag fly in the same paragraph. You can do them both. You can let your freak flag fly while keeping your head on a swivel. Sounds like a party trick, man. But Wayne Adam Ford was born on December 3rd, 1961 in Petaluma, California.

He was the second son of an American father, Gene Ford. Adam's mother was German. and when Adam was only two years old, he took a nasty fall, hit his head, and this head injury was somewhat severe. I mean, it caused some, a pretty good amount of bleeding. So he bled out a little bit, huh? A little bit. Yeah. But it was, you know, I, I just want to differentiate between the, the head bumps that all kids get, right? I go back to when my kids were little and it seemed like every minutes, one of them was bouncing their head off of something. Yeah, I had a lot of head injuries. That does explain a lot. Yeah. But this was, you know, a little bit more severe of a head injury.

He was never close to his parents and started to get in trouble with the law from a pretty early age. His parents would divorce in 1970. And it's at this point that he transitioned to living with his dad and like a lot of kids that are living in that scenario where their parents are divorced. I was there. I lived through that. Sure. You know, that transition back and forth. Now, mine was not hard at all.

My parents, their relationship was good. Right. Everything worked out. Yeah. But I don't know that that's the norm. Yeah. I think it's up to the divorced parents on how they want to handle it. And I think it also, the parent that is going to, you know, have the kids majority of time on how they address it with the kids, you know. I mean, it's not easy.

No, it's not easy. It's definitely doable. And no matter how well you do it, right. It's still tough on a kid. Yeah. Yeah. It's never going to be easy. But you know that going into it. Yeah, the going back and forth and the weekends and the shuffling. But it's just as bad when the kids. see their parents unhappy and arguing too. I mean, there's a case for both sides. Oh, no, I get you. There's a reason why people get divorced. And a lot of times, that's a very valid reason. Absolutely. But this event was not easy for Wayne. Right. He would end up staying with a friend of the family at one point, because living with either of his parents, it just wasn't working out. But when Ford was 15 years old, his father would remarry. And Wayne Adam Ford got very upset when this happened.

You know, he was not happy with this new situation that he was forced into, right? I go back to that in that he didn't choose for this to happen. But apparently he didn't handle it very well. He got very upset. And it wasn't very long after that that he ended up moving in with his uncle. named Jimmy. Good old Uncle Jimmy. You got to have Uncle Jimmy. Uncle Jimmy. Sometimes those guys are great. Sometimes they're sketchy. Wayne joined the Marine Corps when he was only 17 years old. And he met a woman named Kelly Dick in October of 1980. And the very next month, Ford gets hit by a drunk driver. And in this violent crash, he suffered some pretty serious head truck. And he suffered some pretty serious head trauma. And it was said that from this point forward, people noticed a very serious change in his

attitude. Okay. So attitude personality changes. Personality behavior. I shouldn't just say attitude. Yeah. And there's a thought that it was from this accident forward when he started to develop murderous and violent impulses. Now, maybe some of those. were there all the time. Maybe this exacerbated it. I don't know. Now, Wayne and Kelly, they would elope in Las Vegas in 1981. Vegas style. Vegas style. She dropped the dick name and picked up the Ford. I was trying to think of a something, a comeback to that. There's no comeback to that, man. I once knew a woman named Anita Dick. You did? This is a true story? This is a true story. So sounds like something you'd call Walmart and say, please, Paige, I need a dick.

Yeah. Anita Dick was her name. And what was interesting about that scenario was that that was not her maiden name. She married a man by the last name of Dick. So she must have really loved this guy because going into it. You wanted to say she must really love. I know what you were going to say. No, she must have loved this guy because going into it.

to it, she knew what her name was going to be. Yeah. Well, even just signing, signing something with first initial last name, a dick. I don't think, who the hell would do that? That makes it even worse. It's my, uh, immaturity coming out at this moment. Yeah, I haven't thought about her in a long time, but just seeing that name kind of brought that back and you wondered how, how's, uh, I need a dick doing. You keep saying I-Nita. Her name was not I-Nita. It was Anita, but still close enough to be- Anita, Dick.

Yeah, I mean, I'm sure she got ribbed for that, no doubt about it. Oh, absolutely. You know she didn't. And it's after this marriage in Vegas, you know, during that same year of 1981, Wayne Adam Ford forces his new wife Kelly to get an abortion. The next year, January, 1982, Wayne Adam Ford, would have oral sex with a 15 year old girl. And at some point during this interaction,

she would tell him that she had been raped. And this seemed to scare him off because he took off from this encounter. And Ford would later be arrested for attempted rape. And eventually he would move to Santa Ana, California. He started to manage an apartment complex out there. and in December of 1982, he would start to attend therapy. So I think we've got to analyze that a little bit, Gibbs. I think so.

You know, how many serial killers start attending therapy? We said up front, this guy turns himself in. So is he at this point conflicted about his thoughts, his impulses, some of the things that he's already done, some of the things that he's contemplating doing? So deep down in his conscience, he's feeling something, man. And he knows what he's thinking or doing might not be right. So I think, yeah, he is getting some help. But I don't know if it's going to go anywhere.

Well, so you make a good point. He knows right from wrong, right? If he knows that he needs therapy, he knows what he's doing, what he's feeling, what he's thinking. It's not right. At the beginning of 1983, things really start to go downhill for, for, His wife Kelly asks him for a divorce. This seems to have caused more issues for him because he's admitted into a naval hospital psych ward for having what was termed homicidal ideations.

Ideas. So he's thinking about homicide all the time. Yep. I didn't know that was a thing. Well, I assume most serial killers have that. No, I didn't know if they had a, you know, labeled it. Oh, a term? Yeah.

Yeah. I guess where you think about killing people. I wonder if you get a shirt made up like that. That says, I have homicidal ideations. Yeah. Wouldn't it be great if everybody just wore a shirt saying exactly what they were thinking? It makes life easy. I can just steer away from a lot of people.

Yeah. I steal people's wallets. Okay. Thank you. Now I know to get away from you. I give a wide berth. Yeah. Huh.

I'm carrying an eight-inch K-bar knife. Again, wide berth. Yeah, be smart. Maybe we develop an app for that and your phone goes off every time you get near somebody that has something you don't like. So it's like some of those dating apps that tells you when somebody's near or that's using the same site. Yeah. I also think we should have shirts that tell everybody's IQ on them.

So you have that. That would be a big help too. You have like Wayz app? Mm-hmm. Maybe they can develop something called Krayz app. Oh, write that down. Crazy app. Write that down in our big book of ideas.

That's right. It's going to make you rich one day. So in this mental ward, he would be told that he had, quote, adjustment reactions with mixed features, along with a personality disorder with explosive and immature features. Mixed features. Break that down. I don't, I can't. The personality disorder I get, explosive, immature, I get all that. I'm not understanding, frankly, the adjustment reactions with mixed features.

He has a hard time adjusting to things and he doesn't react well to change maybe. We know that already. Yeah. So his wife says, you know, I want a divorce. That sends him into a spiral. Sure. You know, it hasn't flashed back to when his parents got divorced. without him knowing it flashes back to when his dad got married to somebody that he didn't have any say in

this is all things that are trigger points for him wow Gibbs that is some very good analysis that's why there's a phd certificate on the wall behind me it is it is i mean you made it in you made it in but yeah well it's still recognized it out your daughters colored it in yeah it's still recognized by both of my kids it's all matters you got that going yeah there's phd gibby And in 1984, he stationed in Okinawa, Japan. Ooh, Okinawa. Wax on, wax off. Yeah.

We're getting into a little karate kid action there. Absolutely. Paint the fence. Remember that? I do. Yeah. I do. How'd it work for you?

Not well. Yeah. Still got your ass kicked? Yep. Yeah. No. Actually, I was big into Taekwondo when I was younger growing up. Really?

Into college? Mm-hmm. I just did street fighting. Did you? Yeah. It worked well. You just set on people. Just got them down and set on people.

I'm not talking about my husky days. How do you like these husky jeans sitting on you? How you like that husky logo? Here, let me give you a better look at it. I also took Akito. Oh, did you? I was in this real big phase of the Stephen Seagal. Oh, yeah.

Back when he was real big in his movies. Sure. So I got into this Akito, this bone-breaking stuff, and was just real fascinated by all of that. Did you do good? No, no, I didn't stay into the, the Quito very long. I thought it was, it was, really wasn't for me. But the Taekwondo, I really enjoyed. Yeah.

And did some tournaments and. I see you do more of the competition. What's that, capa? Capoeira. That's more like dancing. That seems like that'd be up your alley. I see you doing that. I can see you like with a grass skirt.

Yeah. Doing some capoeira. Some leg flips. Yep. I'd be more of the guy that, what's the, the, the older stuff they do, the real slow movement ones. They do out like in a, like a park together. They always see them out in the park and they're always doing this, you know, the really slow.

You're talking about like Tai Chi or something? Something like that, yeah. It looks very relaxing, but yet they're putting a sweat on. I don't know. That's not for self-defense. Isn't that for like clearing your mind and just? Well, I think you can use it. You just got to speed it up.

Got to turn up the volume. But he gets. sent home from Okinawa. He gets bumped down in rank from Sergeant E5 to Corporal E4. That's hurtful. That can't be good for the pride. And the reason for this is he just was racking up various types of infractions. He was getting written up a lot while he was in the Marines.

And eventually, he's given the drug, Howl doll, because he's having a lot of violent outbursts. But this drugs would have some very serious effects on him, including big time mood swings. I mean, this is a situation where he would go from super happy to extremely sad to violent, all within a like a quick period of time. Yeah, scary stuff, man. It kind of reminds me of the old royd rage that you would see people. Yeah, somebody's like super, super happy. And the next thing you know, they want to rip your head off.

Right. He would also be diagnosed with severe borderline personality disorder. I'm not surprised there. So Ford moves back to living with his uncle Jimmy. And in October of 84, Gibbs, he would be placed in three different hospitals. And that's pretty impressive in the same month. And these are all military hospitals, Army, naval hospitals. So you know, it's pretty bad when he goes to one hospital.

and they can't figure out what's going on with them. But they're trying to get them help, right? They want them healthy. So they, you know, they send them to the next hospital. And they analyze and realize, man, we've got to take this case somewhere else. And they ship them to another hospital. And we're talking some distance between these hospitals, too. So, I mean, the effort's there.

Yeah, they're not right next door. I mean, they're not even in the same towns, right? He's doing some traveling from hospital to hospital. hopefully he's not wearing the gown in between. The whole time. And just walking down the street with his ass cheeks flapping out. I hate when that happens. I do too.

I do too. I do too. I mean, you're telling me they can't come up with a better design of hospital gown. You think they could. I think they don't. I think they like that. I like seeing people walk down the hall. there, let us know. You guys like it. You think it's funny. I know you do. So they, somebody's come up with a better design, but they've, they've held it down. Yeah, the hospitals keep like, no, no, you know. Do they say it in the French peppy Lepeu accent? No, no. No, no. How do you come up with this stuff? I don't know, man. Don't, don't try to figure out.

That's just the mind of Gibby. You can't just say no, no in your normal voice. No. You have to go straight to Pepelepeu. Yeah, that's how it works. But during this time, Wayne Ford is arrested for beating sex workers. Yeah. And he's also arrested for animal cruelty. Yeah, it's terrible. And, you know, he's in his mid-20s at this point. But I think Gibbs, whether you do something like that at 8, 10, 12, 20, 30, 40, I don't

care. If you commit violent acts against helpless animals. Right. at whatever point in your life it occurs, there's something wrong with you. Yeah, there's really something wrong in it. So if you're out there right now, hurting an animal, stop, go seek some help. Just do it. And that's the more you know, PSA from Gibby. That's right. Where's the music that goes behind it?

I gotta get that drop, man. Yeah. I got to figure that out. And Ford ends up being honorably discharged from the Marines in 1985 for what was labeled as, convenience of the government, character, and behavior disorders. So I think they wanted this guy out of the military. Well, it was for the convenience of the government. Yep. So that's exactly why they did it. And basically they're saying, we no longer want you, but we're going to give you an honorable discharge.

Allow you to keep your benefits and get the help that you need. And after getting out of the service, he takes a few jobs. driving delivery trucks for companies like Sears and wards. But he quits all of these jobs because, and we've heard this before Gibbs, he thinks that this type of work is beneath him. He then ends up becoming a tow truck driver. And it's at this point in his life that he starts going by the name of Adam. And then he takes the Mike Gibson route.

Say what? He goes to work for American delivery. service. He's a driver's helper helping to load trucks. Now, how you started your career? I did it. The company, you in the Brown. In the Brown. But then you went on to become a driver yourself. I did. He would also deliver papers for the Orange County Register, had a couple of different jobs at car dealerships, a motorcycle shop. This one scares me a little. He drove a bus for disabled children. And he was also a security guard. Hey, I was too. Were you? Yeah. Again, all scary stuff. I don't know what kind of background checks these people are doing. I carried my

night stick or my knife stick. But unlike you Gibbs, Ford is not able to maintain a job. He can't keep a steady job for any length of time. It's rough when you got all that going on in your head upstairs, you know? Yeah. And I think you're right. How much of that played into it, how much of it was that he thought he should have a more prestigious job, a more important job, he thought all these jobs were beneath him. He probably didn't like his boss's reviews. Maybe. In 1986, Ford would meet Wadadad Radwan, and they would date on and off for about six years.

That was a tough name for you to say. I think I got it out pretty good. Yeah. But again, Ford would be arrested for animal cruelty. And this resulted from a shooting incident where he killed a dog in his backyard. In October of 87, he meets a woman named Janice Hawkins. And he moves in with this woman very quickly. Like, keep in mind, he's still having this on-off relationship with Rodwan.

He's got something on the side. I got you. Okay. But right after he moves in with this woman named Janice Hawkins, he begins to masturbate in front of her teenage daughter. Oh, I bet that went over well. It did not go over well. And she kicks him out, as she should have. Yeah.

And he ends up moving back in with Wadadad Rad. So it's 88 now. He's living with Wadad. And one day he comes across a. couple of teenagers whose car had broken down. He gives them a ride, brings them back to his home that he's living at with Wadad. And when she comes home, the scene that she finds is he's playing cards with these teenagers. Okay. And apparently his testicles are hanging out of his shorts. So he's got some shorty shorts on and the boys are out and about. And what

Ford would later say was that he enjoyed seeing how the teenage girl would react to his behavior. So this gave him a thrill to see her reaction. Now, the same year, he would watch his roommate's cousin sleep naked through a window. So he's peeping on his roommate's cousin. Okay. His relationship with Wadad would end in 1992. So up until this point, You know, he's done some weird stuff. You can see things maybe start to escalate, but obviously he hasn't killed anyone yet, which we know he's going to. Right. And in September of 92, Ford applied to work for the U.S. Border Patrol.

And luckily, he was denied because apparently his application was very strange, the things that he wrote on his application. He also lied about his history in the Marine Corps and his discharge info. and he also lied about an incident where he had punched a girl in a bar. Punched a girl in a bar. Yeah. So this guy, although he's obviously a real winner at this point. Yeah. He's a keeper.

Been cruel to animals. We know that he's had inappropriate contact with minors. He likes to let his balls hang out. The only real information about Ford in 93 was that he was arrested for firing a weapon and arrested again for cruelty to animals. So in 94, he marries a woman named Elizabeth and he has a son, Max, in 95. But Elizabeth ends up leaving him in 1996. And here we go again, Gibbs.

This is another abandonment, I believe, in the eyes of Wayne Adam Ford. Well, sure is. because he starts to spiral. You know, he's drinking heavily. And many people theorize that it's this latest abandonment that is going to send him down, you know, the really dark path that he's going to travel. And it's thought that he started killing women as a way to deal with his anger towards his wife that had just left him. and his previous ex-wife who left him. Well, don't only did his wife leave him.

She left with his son. Yeah, so it's like even more abandonment. And he's going to talk about this later as being, you know, the reason why he's going to do what he does. And it's on October 17th, 1997 that Ford would choose his first victim. But this victim would never be identified. It was a female. she would be called Jane Doe or sometimes referred to as torso girl.

That's terrible. Which is, I don't like that. You know, Jane Doe is kind of a term that is used to signify that they just don't know the identity. I get that. They have to have a term for it. Torso Girl just sounds disrespectful to me. Yeah, I think so too. Ford raped, murdered.

and dismembered this girl. And the torso would be found a few days later in Eureka, California by a duck hunter. And this woman's never been identified. I mean, this is a mystery that remains to this day. Yeah, I think it would be hard to identify just based off the fact that all you have is a torso. I mean, there's really no identifying. And no one is saying anybody's missing either. Yeah.

That's the other problem. I mean, with the torso, you don't have dental. records. You don't have fingerprints, obviously. The only thing I would think is if the on the torso front or back, there were some very distinct identifying tattoos or scars or. Yeah, something to that effect. Because without that, it's difficult. How would you do it? Oh, the one, the one I forgot would be breast implants or those, yeah. Because of, A lot of breast implants, and I'm not sure if it's the older ones or the newer, I forget, but, or maybe all of them had serial numbers.

Right. Yeah. And I know there were some cases like that that were solved by tracking down the victim's identity using those serial numbers. I think anything medical now that goes in you has some type of tracking code on it. And really the information about this comes later on from Ford. And he didn't know. a lot. But the few facts that he did know about Jane Doe was that he said she was either from Colorado or

Arizona. He had picked her up from a bus stop where she had been waiting. Ford said that in conversation, this woman told him that she did not get along with her parents. She was very close to her sister. And there was information later found that she had given birth to a child. So somehow medically, you know, they were able to determine that. Sure. He didn't recall her name. What he did say was that she went by a nickname, but he said he couldn't remember that either. But there is a description of this Jane Doe.

She was between 5-4 and 5-7, described as top-heavy, you know, had a, was large-chested. Yeah, we figured that. Yeah, I thought I'd give a description just in case. Yeah, I appreciate that. Short brown hair, brown eyes. And she was wearing a Jansport book bag that had on it some type of like green piece or similar piece sign symbols. Oh, you probably had one of those too.

A Jansport book bag? Yeah. I might have, but I probably didn't have green piece or anything like that on it. The other thing was that she was wearing an environmentalist t-shirt. So they could have some description of the woman, but then I think what you can take from that was that she was some type of activist. You know, she was into saving the environment, environmentally conscious. And there's only one other body part that was ever found. And that was one of her arms.

And it was found later washed up on a beach. So her head, legs, and the other arm. they've never been found. And you and I talk about this, Gibbs. There is a family out there somewhere that has no idea what happened to their daughter. And until this woman's identified, her family will never know. No. For sure.

They won't. At midnight, there was a lady waiting by a bus stop that used to be here. She was hitchhiking. This is the 101 freeway going north. Wayne Ford was headed north back to his trailer in Arcada. He saw this lady sitting by the side of the road, and he pulled over to the side and said, you're going to freeze to death if you stay out here any longer. She then got in the car with him, feeling safe at that point.

And within 24 hours, she was dead. But what would come out later, Gibbs from Ford is that he had kept some of the other parts of this woman's body in his freezer for about a year. and he even experimented with them, tried to cook some of these body parts. That's get messed up. I mean, we're already messed up, but that's really messed up. Now, in December of 97, he would check himself into a mental health clinic, but he never went through with the treatment that he was supposed to get. I mean, it was there for him, and he went in voluntarily, but decided not to go through

with it. In 98 January, so we're just a month later, Ford gets very drunk. And he announces in front of other people that he hates women and wants to cut them up and hide all of their body parts. Wow. So I don't know what the audience is that is hearing this, but they think he's drunk. So they don't really put that much. stock into what he's saying, but you have to imagine what could have happened if at least one person

would have taken him seriously. I mean, it could have maybe prevented something. I don't know. It could have. But I say I'm on the side that says when people say stuff that they normally wouldn't when they're drunk, that's really who they are. I think because the alcohol is like a truth serum almost. Yeah, absolutely. So I think when they go off on rain, and they're saying this and that. I think that's really probably how they feel. I think sometimes it can be. You know, like when I get really drunk

and I call you an asshole and... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's all right, though, because I am. It's okay. Now, I get what you're saying. I do think alcohol magnifies a person's personality. So if you're kind of a dick already,

you become like... Super dick. Super dick. Yeah. And some of that truth that can really come out, hurtful stuff that maybe you're able to hold back when you're sober. Yeah, I agree. And for the record, you're not an asshole.

No, I'm just a dick. Allegedly. Allegedly. But his divorce from Elizabeth becomes final in the first half of 1998. I got to stop you for a minute. Every time you say Elizabeth, you know it pops in my head, Sanford and son. Oh, I'm coming to join you, Elizabeth? Yeah, I always picture him.

This is the big one? Yeah, that's what I picture. That's what I picture in my head. Dude, I used to watch that show as a kid. I loved it. Yeah. That was one of my favorite shows. Red Fox, man.

Watching those reruns of, I just thought he was hilarious. Yeah, he really was. So that's what I just wanted you to know, when you say, every time you say Elizabeth, this is what I'm thinking. Nothing to do with the case. Nothing. No. Nope. Nope.

I'm just sitting over here thinking about, you know. Sanford and Son. Sanford and Son. All right. But you have to imagine that this probably did nothing. but create more anger inside of him. Right. So he was abandoned.

She left him, took his son. Now that abandonment is, I guess what you say it's final. And on June 2nd, 1998, a woman's body is found in a body of water near Buttonwillow, California. The woman was named Tina Renee Gibbs. She was a 26-year-old sex worker. and she had been strangled to death. Ford would pick up another sex worker in Orange County

and he would rape her on June 16th, 1998. So within that same month, you know, he's committed a murder and a very violent rape. In August, he would do the exact same thing picking up a woman from Sonoma County. And it would be four months after that that another sex. worker was found floating in a San Joaquin County canal. She was 25-year-old Lynette White.

I mean, he's really getting on a roll here. Yeah. I mean, I think he's picking. I mean, we talked about him going through the years. Now, he was no saying. He was doing some bad things, but it was quite a span of time that we talked about. Yeah. And they keep escalating. Now, he's, what, 36 years old now? I believe so. And all of a sudden, I think everything is let loose for him. He's made the decision that the bad things that he's been thinking about in his head for a very long time. We know he has. He's going to admit that.

He's made the decision that he's going to start acting on them. And once he does, it kind of rolls very quickly. Now, the exact cause of death for Lynette White was never determined. And you know, floating. in some type of body of water for any extended period of time, it does make that very difficult. It does. And very soon after that, a woman by the name of Patricia Ann Tamez was found floating in another aqueduct.

She had been strangled. And one of her breasts had been removed. So again, now he's gone back to removing body parts from a victim. disturbing man no it really is i mean this is this is a guy that i think was having you know had a lot of inner demons let's let's put it that way he had a lot of things going on in his head and none of them were good but on november 3rd 1998 and we foreshadowed this but fordard seemed to have grown a conscience about what he had been doing about these crimes that he was committing that The night before, he'd spent the whole night drinking and apparently told people that he wanted to get drunk and then blow his brains out.

But he ended up having a long talk with his brother and he didn't commit suicide. That next day, his brother accompanies him into the sheriff station in Eureka, California. And with him, Wayne Ford is carrying that severed breast. in a plastic bag in his pocket. And he also has his Bible. He confessed to strangling four women, as well as dumping the pieces of the bodies he dismembered in different parts of California. So he basically just walks in and says, you know, here's what I've done.

And we talked about it, Gibbs, this is very strange. It is extremely strange. for somebody to have these bad thoughts, start down the path of killing, raping, dismembering, and then all of a sudden say, you know what, I'm going to quit and I'm going to turn myself in.

Right. That's not the way it happens. No. These people, they keep going, they keep going until they're caught or killed most times. And for what, tell police that he really didn't have a great reason for the murders, except for the fact that he

was very angry with his ex-wife, Elizabeth. Well, no, we've always known early on he had issues with women, right? Anger issues. So I don't know if it was Elizabeth, you know, this time it was Elizabeth, but previous times it was his mom, it was his, you know, stepmom, it's just, you know, different women in his life. Well, his first wife. Yeah. All those just drove them in that direction.

Yeah, but I think you touched on something that can't be overlooked. And that's the fact that with Elizabeth, he had his son Max. And so my thought Gibbs is that is that abandonment probably hit harder than any of the other ones. Oh, I'm sure. It was a flashback. Well, and plus you have a child involved now. Yeah. But he sees Max as him and that's a flash.

back to what happened to him with that age and here's Max going through the same thing. Ooh, that's not what I was thinking about, but that's good. That's how it works. And that's free, folks. That was free. No charge. No charge from Gibby. But I like that. I like that type of analysis. You got to be in their heads. That's why I keep you around. But one of the things that we didn't talk about when we mentioned Elizabeth was that she was the daughter of a Las Vegas police captain. And this guy never wanted her to marry Wayne Ford. And touching on his son, you know, Ford was not, had not seen his son because he was living in Las Vegas with Elizabeth, Ford's in California. But apparently he had visitation rights.

But what he would claim is that Elizabeth was preventing him from seeing Max. So this is all kind of adding up to. the frustration, the anger, and this is what he's telling police. Police would say that Ford was very emotional when he talked about the crimes that he had committed. They even said that he was apologetic to them about the things that he had done. And again, Gibbs, I go to the fact that that's very different from a lot of the killers that we cover. I don't know how many of them, there are some, but how many of them are really apologetic unless it's to play up to the judge or sometimes when they're about ready to die?

And most times, not even then. I don't really believe most of them. Like 99% I don't believe. Well, and that's why I guess I was trying to get at is they're really only apologetic when they think it's going to be in their best interest. it sounds like from what the police said this guy was genuinely sorry for what he had done yeah that's what i'm getting i always can understand like the sorry what did i do after you know maybe you do it once kill somebody once and you're like like a murder crime of murder that was committed uh what are they

called murder of passion right you caught your wife in bed with another man yeah you lost control you're sorry about that doesn't mean it was good. Right. But to repeat it again and again, you know, it's, I don't know. It's hard to believe anybody would be sorry. I actually do believe that he was probably sorry, but to your point, if you were so sorry, why did you keep going? Were you not sorry after the first one? Exactly. It took, you know, multiple rapes and multiple murders for you to figure out that, hey, I'm doing the wrong thing here and I feel bad about it and I'm sorry. I don't know if he, I don't think he turned himself in to protect other people. I think he turned himself in because he just couldn't deal with himself.

And I think I read somewhere Gibbs that Ford may have even said at one point, one of the reasons that he turned himself in was so that he would not murder his ex-wife and leave his son motherless. because that's the person that he really wanted to kill, I believe. Yeah, so there you go. So, I mean, he's doing it for his boy is what he's doing it for. Now, I'm talking with police, though, he would try to tell them that each murder he committed was an accident and that he had tried to revive each of the women once he realized they were dead. I don't know how that could be possible.

Well, I guess it could be possible. I was thinking back to the victim where he completely dismembered her. Well, I was going to say the same thing. I mean, if it was an accident, why would you, and you couldn't revive him? Well, why wouldn't you just stop at that point? Why would you go continue moving forward and do that? Yeah. I mean, maybe he did try to revive her before he dismembered her.

Yeah, I'm just. I don't know. Most of the time, I think what happens is there's a natural inclination to downplay what you've done. Yeah. Well, I can see where he would say he tried to, you know, do that so he could hide the body parts and stuff like that. But if you go to this last one where he removed the one breast, makes no sense. That's a trophy keeping. Yeah. What is that accomplishing other than taking a trophy? Exactly. And we know even on the first one, I mean, he put the parts in the fridge and was trying to experiment on eating him. So, I mean, he's just on that level, I think he's full of shit. I would agree. So sorry. I, I, I, I, I, I, I do. I think that's just an attempt to downplay how bad the crimes were and try to make himself look somewhat better. I agree. He would say that he had only killed four women, but police quickly start to look back into his earlier life. They're looking at the times where he held some of those driving jobs. They're looking at the routes that he took. They're trying to match those up

with any unsolved murders of sex workers or hitchhikers. And one of the sex workers that Wayne Ford had beaten, raped, and robbed would be brought in and would pick him out of a photo lineup. Now, Ford's talked about his murders, but he would also go on to talk about some other incidents that he had with sex workers that weren't known at the time. And he said he picked up at least five different sex workers in Bakersfield, California, had tied them up and eventually had dumped them in ditches. And my thought there Gibbs is that, you know, I just wonder if the fact is these women,

because of the profession that they were in, were afraid to come forward to police. and so these were not known. That's my theory. Yeah, and I could see that. I think that happens a lot. Now, Ford's trial would not begin until 2006. So he comes in in 1998, confessing to these crimes. His trial happens eight years later.

That amazes me. Wow. It is kind of amazing that it took that long to get to trial. What I think happened was, was he started meeting with psychologists. And he was undergoing a lot of evaluations. And it was in 2004 that a judge finally ruled on the admissibility of his confessions. And he allowed most of them.

But he actually ruled some of them that happened after a certain date inadmissible. So we said the trial began in early 2006. Wayne Adam Ford is facing the death penalty for his crimes and the defense wanted to put up the argument that Ford knew he was mentally ill and he went to the police for help the defense claimed that Ford was depressed and desperate because he was so hurt by his childhood his failed marriages and the fact that he was not able to see his son.

So a lot of the things that we've talked about talked about leading up to this. They also pointed out that car accident that we talked about early on and the head injury that resulted from that. And they said that that had a big impact on his thinking and his ability to reason. But when it's the prosecution's turn, I mean, in their opening statement, they share a photo with the jury of the severed breast that Ford brought into the police station, as well as a photo of Lynette White's decomposed body. And it was said that the decomposition was so bad that her head was completely blackened. Imagine sitting on the jury seeing these two photos and what impact that would have on you as a juror. Oh man, it's going to stick with you for sure.

And that's in the opening statement. Yeah. Prosecutors said that it was, it had been determined that Ford had killed Lynette White and driven around with the body in the back of his truck for a few days before putting her in that canal. They also introduced blood and sperm evidence that linked Ford to both Tina Gibbs and Patricia Tamez. The prosecution also laid out evidence showing that some of the body parts that Ford had kept from Jane Doe were found at a campsite that he had been living at. And they also had evidence that showed some of the mutilation he had done on her body was done in the bathtub of a trailer that he once lived in. Now something strange Gibbs happened while Ford was. was on trial. And there was a model by the name of Victoria Redstall. And she was a model.

She was also an actress, born in Britain, but she apparently had developed a very intense interest in serial killers. And she decided that she wanted to meet Wayne Adam Ford. And so she set it up to meet him as part of an interview for a documentary. And apparently they did. And they developed a pretty intense bond to the point where she ended up spending most of her nights and weekends visiting Ford. But apparently this caused some type of issue because remember the trial is going on and it prompted the sheriff's department to launch an investigation. And at one point, they had to bar her from visiting him in jail to the point where they ended up posting a flyer with her picture on it at the jail saying she was not allowed in.

So I don't know what all the hubbub was about, but I thought it was kind of an interesting tidbit. Yeah, a little side thing there. A little sidebar. A little sidebar. Now, she would say that this bond that they had was emotional, it was not romantic, but she also said,

and this kind of goes back to the Ramirez episode, right? So Ramirez gets married to Doreen, and we talked about what would the aftermath of that be for her? Well, Victoria Redstall said she lost all of her friends because of this connection with the serial killer Wayne Adam Ford. And she didn't even marry him. Yeah, but it's, I mean, you can see that. I mean, why would you have such interest in somebody and be around them?

They did terrible things. Why would you even give them the time of the day? Well, I think it started, at least from her account, because she wanted to make a documentary. But it sounds like it morphed into much more than that. I mean, they were meeting all the time and not just for the documentary. So the jury gets the case. They deliberate for, you know, about a week. They find Ford guilty on four counts of first degree murder, including special circumstances

because he dumped the bodies in different places. And apparently Ford looked straight ahead as he was hearing this verdict, displayed no emotion. And the jury ended up deciding on the death penalty for him. And he was sent to San Quentin. You know, we do a lot of these cases in California gives. Man, everybody goes to San Quentin. It is, man.

It's the place to be. It's the, for me, for you and I, it's the place not to be. If I knew I was going to San Quentin, you would what? I would shit my gran' animals. Yeah, you would. You wouldn't last there very long. I wouldn't, no.

I would not last in prison very long. Number one, I don't like to be told what to do. Right. Not a big schedule guy. No, no, you're not. And as much as I talk about keeping my head on a swivel, I would be terrified of shivs and shanks and other long, long items and other items of things that you should be very, very afraid of.

You'd be backed in a corner, balled up, you know, holding yourself tight. No, I mean, I would fight. Don't get me wrong. I know. I just don't feel like it would go well for me. You could pull out your Akita skills. Akita. No, that's why I stay on the straight and arrow, man.

Yeah. I don't, I'm not taking any chances. No, it's not worth it. It's not worth it. We're talk about them. Let's not be them. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And Ford is currently sitting on death row at San Quentin.

Maybe listen to a little Johnny Cash. Maybe. Yeah. But there's a lot of people, men and women, on death row in California. Sure, I can imagine that. Probably upwards of about 800. I don't know what the exact total is right now. I saw, in 2016, it said it was like 750. Yeah. So it's probably a little bit more by now. And his attorneys have been challenging the verdict since it was delivered, which is the reason why, you know, he hasn't exhausted, I guess, all of his appeals. What are they challenging? I would say they're probably most likely challenging the death sentence. Okay. More so than the conviction.

Any changes in anything adds more years. I mean, just what? Was it the last year they actually went to, was it Ohio, I believe, or Indiana? they actually went to go ahead and execute somebody and the cocktail was not correct. Oh, yeah. They've had a lot of problems in a lot of states with the cocktail. Yeah, so. I mean, to the point where they've actually had to shut down.

Yeah. Because they can't get the right drugs. So instead of rescheduling the execution for like next month, they scheduled it out for like four years. Yeah, they got pushed out for a long time. Yeah, why four years? I mean, if you were going to. do it, why are you waiting four more years now? Because apparently, whatever these cocktails are that they're getting, they're not, they're not ending the person's life in the way that it's

designed to do. So they're calling it cruel and unusual. Right. And in some cases, it sounds like it really was. Yeah. I mean, I know this last one that his attorney approached the, whoever makes that decision for the state on how they're going to be executed. that they would bring back the firing squad, that his client would prefer to go ahead and just be killed by firing squad instead of the chemical cocktail. Then messing around with that cocktail. Yeah.

Yeah. There was a quote from Wayne Adam Ford where he said, I would rather have been killed a long time ago than spend the last 18 years in solitary confinement. It's not fun. Well, no shit, Sherlock. It's not supposed to be fun. Exactly. You're not at a at a at a weekend camp where you're canoeing and weaving baskets.

Oh, do you weave baskets, did you? You look like a basket weaver. Hey, but if I wanted to, I could weave a mean basket. You're Mr. Longenberger basket, whatever they're called. That's a good one. Yeah. Yeah. But I just, I find that comical because now I get the fact that somebody might want to be put to death rather than sit in a cell.

for 23, 24 hours a day. Sure. But to say it's not fun, well, was it fun for the victims? Right. The victims' families. Their families. I mean, it shouldn't be fun. You're there to be punished.

You did some terrible things. Just don't really get an opinion at this point. That's the thing. Yeah. Yeah. Nobody gives a shit what you have to say right now. Right. But apparently he spends his time eating.

He gets to watch. TV. Oh. Somehow he has a guitar, so he might be playing some Johnny Cash. Maybe. I don't know. I don't know. Sometimes that pisses me off.

Yeah. To hear about... Why me? Why me? Oh, me? No, no. To hear about what they're able to do. Oh, what they get to do?

What they get to do? I go back to like, it should be like Shawshank, right? You might get, somebody might bring you a book every now and then. You sit and read a book, and that's about it. That's all you get. You shouldn't be watching... No TV. College basketball.

ESPN. No, you can't even get to watch that sometimes. And you're free. I know. You know, I got to pay to do that. And you got to pay. So the taxpayers of California are paying for Wayne Adam Ford to sit around and watch TV and learn how to play guitar. And I know that drives people nuts. It does. But that's it. That's the case of serial killer Wayne Adam Ford. It was interesting. It always is. It is. Right, Gibbs, we've got some voicemails. You want to hear of those? Sure. Besides the one where they're looking for you. Yeah, besides that one. Down in Atlanta.

Yeah. Hello, this is Ivan Martinez from the San Francisco Bay Area. I would like to tell you guys, thank you very much for your podcast. It helps me while I'm working, landscaping all day. Along with goddamn heat, your episode for Jessica is Laugh. Really was a good one that helped a lot to understand what's going on. Also, I'm for Team Givie. And if you guys can force my lady to download your podcast, it'll be greatly appreciated.

Have a lovely day. So first, thanks, Ivan. And your lady, you need to, she needs to go ahead and download the podcast and become Team Ghibi too. But man, landscaping out there, that's a tough job. That is a super tough job out in that heat. So all the props to you, man. Yeah, I did it for a summer. When I was home from college, it was rough, rough summer.

Yeah. Also bailed hay one summer. I did that. You talk about a tough job. It tears your arms up, man. Yeah. When you don't wear the long sleeve shirt that you should be wearing doing it. Bailing hay, landscaping.

Now, the good thing about that, though, is, man, it really kept me in good shape. Yeah. If I was landscaping or bailing hay right now. I bet Ivan's got huge hands, man. I'd have my six pack back. You'd have your six pack back? Yeah, I never actually had a six pack. I'd never seen you.

the six-pack. No. So I've never even seen you with like a six-pack in the cooler. That's about the only six-pack I've ever heard. Hey, guys. It's here from Cape Town, South Africa. I've been meeting you a message for so long. Let's just say how thoroughly I enjoy your show.

It keeps me company every single day when I drive 150 kilometers to work and back. And I just thoroughly enjoy it. I love the two of you and your band to cracks me up. I'm not team Gibby. I'm not team, too. I'm T-T-Tec. And, yeah, I just wanting to know that you guys reach us down far down south in Africa. And it is so appreciated.

And you're my favorite podcast. Anyway, take care and keep your own time picking. Oh, I love Cape Town, man. So I really, and I love that accent. So we go from San Francisco to Cape Town, South Africa. Yeah. Now, she said she drives 150 kilometers a day, Gibbs, do some magic Gibby conversion. Yeah, about 110 miles.

Okay. It's pretty close. Am I? Yeah. It's just under 100. Is it? Yeah, I think. 90, 8?

90 something. Yeah. Pretty close. You put me on the spot, man. I did. I didn't have time to, like, really think. I just wanted to get it out there for you. So I knew it was more than miles.

Yeah. That I did know. Right. I knew that, too. Yeah. So thank you for listening. No, we appreciate it. We really do. Hi, Mike and Gibby. This is Pala. It is pronounced Pala. And Mike, it's amazing. You said it correctly your first try. That just never happens.

I was named after a 57 Chevy, so I understand it can be confusing. This might give you a chuckle. My second career is in the criminal justice field. So even after dealing with criminal stuff all day, I still love listening to y'all in the car. But after a while, I figured maybe I was getting a little too oversaturated. So now I interspersed y'all's podcast with some faith-based inspirational one, trying to balance a little bit. I'm a first-time caller, but from the beginning listener, y'all are hands down my favorites. And I've introduced you to several friends. I love you guys.

I love your work. And as always, keep your own time ticking. Wow, great voicemail. And I got some love on that one. Yeah, you've got a name right and you got some love spread on you. I like that. And I get it. Sometimes you got a shift, you know, or mix something else in between some of these.

There's like 8,000 voicemails that say they're team gibby. I only play one. Yeah. Is that what you're saying? Hey, guys. This is Andrew from Portland, Oregon. I was just listening to the second Richard Ramirez episode, the little bonus content at the end where you're talking about your serial killer nicknames. and I was just screaming into myself.

Gibby has to be the K-bar killer. It's a perfect nickname for him. And Mike, I would nickname you the hairpiece hacker because you're killing men for their hair so that you can make your own hairpiece. But thanks, guys. Love the podcast. Keep it up.

Bye. So thank you, Andrew. That voicemail kind of cracked me up, Gibbs. He's cracking me up right now. You know, we kind of did that on the spot. And every time we're on the spot like that, we never think of the really good ones. Right.

But then he comes in and is like, those two were a thousand times better than the ones we came up with. The hairpiece hacker, man. Exactly. I could see you out there doing that. But he didn't just have the name. He had the backstory. Yeah.

That's where you get into, you know, why. Why is somebody doing it? Right. Because he wants that real hair. Now I'm making myself. Making yourself a wig, a toupee. Right. or whatever you want to. Yeah. I might do a wig. I might go full Andre Agassi. You could. Just all the way

All the way down. All the way down. Yeah. Well, if you're going to do it, you know, you always Speaking of people that wore a wig. Go big or go home. Andre Agassizzi. Did you really have a wig? At some point. Yeah. Really? Yeah. Well, he's got the money. He probably had a really nice one made up. Yeah. But we appreciate all the voicemails. And we appreciate everybody downloading, listening, sharing, getting your girlfriend to download, getting your husband, your significant other, whoever, that guy sitting next to you on the train right now, ask him. You know, as Gibbs would say, just take his phone.

Just grab his phone. Start typing it in. Download it for him. He'll thank you later. Yeah, or he'll punch you, but either way. Either way, it's a win for us. Exactly. We don't lose on that one.

Don't tell people to do dangerous things. Hey, don't get yourself hurt, you know. All right. Well, like we said, we appreciate it. And that's it for another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby. Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.