True Crime All The Time - William Mansfield Jr

Episode Date: April 10, 2023

Billy Mansfield Jr murdered at least five women and girls in the late 1970s and into 1980. He committed his murders in multiple states. He was finally caught in California for the murder of Renae Saling. As his trial was about to start, police in Florida began unearthing bodies buried at the Mansfield family Home.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the murderous Billy Mansfield Jr. Billy's father, William, was a terrible man in his own right. In 1980, William was convicted on a number of charges related to sexual crimes against children. How much did Billy learn from his father's actions growing up? And, just exactly how many victims could Billy Mansfield Jr have over the years?You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 328 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in True Crime. Mike Gibson. Givie, how are you? Hey man, I'm doing good. How about yourself? I'm doing excellente. Ooh, excellent. Yeah, you like that, huh? Yeah, that's good. Mix it up a little bit. Exactly. Hey, let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. We had Ying and Zandro Tugas. Hey, Ying and Zandro. Cass in the okay. What's the going on, Cass? Angie Killen. Hey, there's Angie.

Your mom's phone. Well, that's a good phone to have. Karen Watkins. What's going on, Watkins? Deb Thornley. Hey, Deb. John McCarthy. Appreciate that, John.

Laura Nicole Welsh. Hey, Laura. Michelin Kruger. Well, appreciate that. Michelin. Alvilar. Alvilar. Midian Corono.

Hey, Midian. Ashley Oldfield. What's going on, Ashley? Caroline B. Hey, there's Carolyn. Larell Rickard. Appreciate that, Larell. Christina Lee.

Hey, Christina. Elisa McBrattney. Well, hello, McBrotten. Okay. If you want to go that direction. Derek Chimiluski. Chimilusky. Tamilwaski.

Okay. Yeah. Mandy. Mandy. And last but not least, Erica Vannever jumped out at our highest level. Well, thank you so much, Van dervier. Yeah. Thanks to everyone.

And if we go back into the vault, This week we selected Jess Planned. Hey, Jess. So appreciate that very much. We had one PayPal donation from Ann Kelly. Hey, appreciate that, Ann. Yeah, so thanks to everyone.

So Gibbs, we have an episode out on Unsolved right now. And it's about the 1985 disappearance of the Brown family from Port St. Lucy, Florida. This really shocked the community. They couldn't believe that this family went missing. Of course, you know, we find out later that allegedly maybe the dad's involved.

So we're head down those roads and tackle that information and we'll see where we come out at. Yeah. I mean, it is unsolved, but the dad has said some things over the years and people, you know, have their suspicions. Well, let's leave it at that. All right, Gibbs, are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime all the time? I'm ready. We're talking about a real piece of work named William Mansfield. Jr., Billy Mansfield murdered five women and girls in multiple states and buried most of his victims at his family's home. So, you know, we're going to get into all those details. But this is also a story about Billy's father, William Mansfield Sr., who was a terrible guy in his own right. And this is one of those cases where the further, you know, I got in the research, the more invested I got, the

more kind of twists and turns I found and just found it extremely interesting. So I hope everybody else does as well. Billy Mansfield Jr. was born in 1956 in Grand Rapids, Michigan to William Sr. and Virginia Mansfield. He was the oldest of six boys and one girl that the couple had. Now, I will say there were various reports from different outlets that seemed to contradict each other. Some said, you know, he was the oldest of five. Some said the oldest of six. But the more I dug and dug, it seems as though they had seven children. Now, six boys, that's a lot.

It's a handful. That is more than a starting five. Yeah. That's a starting five and a sixth man on your own basketball team. I thought, you know, me having two brothers was a lot, you know, I can imagine having all that additional. Can you imagine the grocery bills if there had been three more. just like you.

No. I don't know how your parents would have afforded it. No, it would have been, I don't know how it would either. It literally would have been that old expression eating you out of house and home. Yeah. We had two refrigerators, one inside, one in the garage. And then we had a standing freezer in the garage too. And it was always, had to be filled with stuff because we ate.

Three big growing boys. Yeah. Yeah. But also, you know, some of these reports said that William Sr. made his boys fight each other, almost like for sport, like blood sport. It's just kind of weird. I mean, and I'm surprised that he had to even do that, you know, growing up, we just fought each other randomly anyway.

Well, that's what I was thinking. I mean, boys fight. That's kind of a thing. Girls fight too, but not probably as often resulting in straight fisticuffs. Yeah. I mean, boys fight and they get into it. Oh, we went to the hospital many times to get stitches in our head. and face and other parts.

Other parts, not to be named. But what I took from it was that this was maybe a little bit more of a sadistic type thing. Like that movie The Accountant. Oh, yeah, which I thought was a really good movie. But, you know, he was making them fight to toughen them up.

I don't even know if he was doing that. I was thinking maybe a little bit more like perverse pleasure of seeing them hurt each other. I don't know. Right. because there really was no details around it. But the Santa Cruz Sentinel reported that Billy told probation officers that his family upbringing in their middle class family was good. William Mansfield Senior owned a refrigeration business.

So I mean, it sounds like they did okay with money, but I'm conflicted about Billy Jr.'s Upbring. Was it really as good as he, you know, made it out to be? Or did he simply just not want to tell. his probation officer, what really went on inside the house when he was young, because, you know, as we're going to find out, his father was a terrible man. Yeah, he probably didn't want to share that information with too many people. The Tampa Tribune reported that at the age of 14, Billy was accused of sexually molesting a 14-year-old girl who was walking home from school.

Now, it was said that he only received a stern warning for this because, the girl's parents wouldn't let her testify. And I get that. You know, as a parent, you'd have to make that decision. Do you want your 14-year-old to have to say things in a courtroom that would be, at the very least, very, very uncomfortable? And I think back then, it was probably harder to feel comfortable. Oh, absolutely.

Not that they feel more comfortable testifying today. I just mean you have more support today, I think, than you will. would have had back then. Well, women are believed more today. Absolutely. I mean, if we're going back to the 70s, you and I have done so many cases where it was absolutely obvious that sexual assaults and rapes and crime, you know, violent sexual crimes against women just weren't taken seriously.

A lot of victims weren't believed. And so at a certain point, I think a lot of victims didn't come. forward because if they didn't feel as though they were going to be believed, if they didn't feel as though anything was going to be done, why come forward at all? Right. Why go through all that? Yeah. I mean, I'm assuming a lot of that happened. It's horrible. It is. That same year, Billy was also charged with petty larceny. He dropped out of school in the 10th grade and at the age of 15 joined the army. So about the same time that you did. I know, You went straight into like a special forces type outfit.

You were so advanced. I did. I mean, I had to borrow a friend's birth certificate to get in, but, you know. And obviously he had to do something similar. They don't let you in at 15.

So I think he altered his birth certificate. Probably not that hard to do back in, what, 1970? No. Plus I had my full mustache. So I kind of looked order. You did?

Yeah. You had that day one. I think he just came out with a just boom full mustache yeah billy would later say that it was while in the army that he became an alcoholic he was only in there for about 14 months and he received a less than honorable discharge i think we've talked about this before we have the difference between dishonorable less than honorable and i think people have even written in to me and now i forget i was going to say i thought somebody wrote in i think so the difference and now i already forget, there has been a lot of speculation. And it may be absolutely true that they figured out

that he wasn't old enough to be in there and they kicked him out. I don't know that for sure, but it sounds logical. Now, what I do think is a fact is that he came out of there in alcohol and was an alcoholic, you know, for the rest of his life. The Tampa Tribune reported that Billy at the age of 17, married a 16 year old girl named Phyllis. And he was an alcoholic, and And the pair had two children together. And, you know, differing accounts of this woman's last name. Some outlets reported it as spele maker, some is Nelson. But I think the majority had speal maker.

So we'll go with that. But it never ceases to amaze me. You know, as we research cases and we're going back through what are very reputable newspapers or outlets that they have differing information. Yeah. doesn't line up sometimes. No. Ages, names.

What happened to the fact checking days? Yeah. Maybe they just weren't as good at it back then. I don't know. By the time Billy was 18 years old, he had amassed a pretty long record. Now, most of it was juvenile, of course. And he never seemed to really be held accountable for any of it. I mean, we talked about sexually molesting a 14 year old girl.

Well, he was 14 at the time, too. So I don't know what would have happened to him. You know, maybe some juvenile facility. He's not going to Big Boy prison at the age of 14. Detention center or something like that. But isn't this something that we've seen time and time again where people are doing what you would consider really bad things? And, you know, in his case, a stern warning, that's what he got, which is to him, what, nothing? And even if he did go somewhere, it wouldn't be for little.

long. So you'd have to call those things slaps on the wrist. And that's what we often see. Now, some of that comes when you're a juvenile. There's just limitations on, on what they can really do to you. But there were a lot of sexual assaults for which he was never charged, but thought to have been connected to some in which he matched the description of the assailant. They just, they never, you know, either put together the evidence or figured out it was him. But there was a lot in the reporting about detectives believing it was him based on descriptions and his record and MO and all that. And all that. In 1974, the Mansfield clan moved to WikiWatchy, Florida. Oh, yeah.

You ever heard of that? I've been there. Oh, I've never heard of that. I went there as a kid. Yeah. Well, so I looked it up because I wasn't familiar with it. Apparently it was founded in 1966 to promote a local mermaid attraction,

some type of WikiWachi park. Yeah. Which is probably what you went there for. I went there for that. And it was did that with the mermaids. And then we drove over to Bush Gardens and did the, you know, the skiing thing that they do. Did you go to the beer garden? Um, well, I was, uh, you know, 10 years old, but.

Well, with that, with that full mustache, I assumed you would have had no problem getting yourself a, uh, a Budweiser. Okay. I did. I wasn't going to mention it, but yeah. But it was, yeah, I've been there to that mermaid attraction and wiki-watchy or whatever you say. I, I, yeah, I hope I'm saying it correctly. So then I looked into it a little bit more and found out that the city was dissolved in two, 2020 and basically is now unincorporated. It said at one point, like the 2020 census or something, there was like 12 people that lived there. Really?

Yeah. Apparently it's very, very small anyway. Yeah. In 1976, 21 year old Billy was charged with being drunk and disorderly. He was released on bail. But according to the Tampa Bay Times,

as he was leaving the jail, he was arrested in charge with raping a 16-year-old girl. Now, he eventually pleaded to a lesser charge and didn't do much time. What I found fascinating is that his father, William Mansfield, Senior, had walked out of that same jail in 1946 after a jury failed to believe a 13-year-old girl who said he tried to sexually assault her. So 30 years difference, but still same result. Same results. Kind of same M.O. right? Well, and, and, you know, that's one of the things that really grabbed me.

me about this case. You've got senior and junior, both, you know, doing some of the same things. So again, as we've talked about many times, how much did junior take from senior? You know, how much of seniors' actions caused what junior would later do? And it's something we'll have to keep an eye on. Sometimes, you know, kids are observant and they learn. Yeah. No, there's no doubt about that. In 1978, at the age of 22, Billy raped a 16 year old girl in a house he was renting in Grand Rapids. Now, it was really hard to tell from the reporting what at what times Billy was in Michigan and when he was in Florida, right? Because they were from Grand Rapids, Michigan. The family moved to WikiWatchi, but he's 20-some years old now. He's living back.

in Michigan renting an apartment or whatever, a house. It does seem as though he traveled back and forward during this period, probably to see his family, I'm assuming. So for this, he was sent to the Michigan State prison, but he was released in 1980, February of 1980. So what, two years, less than two years? Didn't spend a lot of time there. No, he didn't spend much time in prison because he became a jailhouse informant. So apparently, he was the star witness against a man who confessed to him in jail that he had murdered a school crossing guard. So it was reported that in addition to getting out on the rape charge early, two other charges that could have meant life sentences were reduced significantly. And these were

also violent sexual crime offenses. Wow. So it kind of pays to being an informant. Yeah, sometimes. It really can. Now, it doesn't pay for the later victims of Billy Mansfield Jr. We're going to talk about that. But there's definitely a reason why people in prison try to give information in exchange for, you know, reductions of their sentence or dropping of charges. They're not doing it out of the, the kindness of their, um, their heart, right? For trade. Yeah, they're doing it to get something out of it. Now, they could be telling the truth. They could not be. We've seen it happen both ways. Billy's wife, Phyllis, divorced him in 1979. So he got out of jail in February of 1980. And in June of that year, he raped a young woman named Pamela Cheryl. She fought back against Billy and was able to survive her attack and press charges on him.

Police would later say that they went to his mobile home multiple times to arrest him, but they couldn't find it. They later found out that he used a trap door inside the mobile home to elude them as well as a police scanner to know that they were coming. So I'm picturing, you know, he's sitting there. He's got the police scanner. He hears it. Once they get there, boom, trapdoor.

I scoot out the back. I like that trapdoor theory. Not for this case. Yeah. I just think it's just in general. It's good to have a trap door. Never know. Yeah.

I get that. like the fact that criminals are getting away. But what I want to talk about is the timing. He gets out in February of 80 on a two year, maybe not even two year sentence for rape. And he commits the same act within, you know, what, four months? Yeah, habitual. Yeah. I mean, this is a serial offender. In August of that year, 24 year old Billy traveled to California with his common law wife Maureen, his 23-year-old brother Gary, his wife, Liz, and her three children. Maureen would later tell papers that they were trying to make a fresh start. I don't know what she meant by that.

I don't know if she knew some of the things that, well, she probably knew what he had done in the past. I don't know if she knew what he had just done a couple of months prior. They settled in a K-O-A campground in a small town called Wai. Watsonville. Remember those K-O-A campgrounds? I mean, I think they still have them. I don't know. Yeah, they went up the road, not too far from here. Oh, do they? Brookville, Ohio. They, oh, okay. Yeah. So I remember when we would go on vacation down south, just traveling, you know, down I-75. And it seemed like I remember seeing all these billboards that said

K-O-A campground. Yeah. But we weren't really campers. So we never had like an RV or anything where you would set up in a K-O-A campground. But I always thought, man, I want to check that out. I want to see what that is. Live that dream. Camping. So the brothers both got jobs, which was something that I don't think they really like to do. By that, I mean, work.

There was a lot in the reporting about how at least Billy never could hold a job. He would quit or get fired after just a couple of days. I don't think he wanted to work. It seemed as though maybe he got to the point where he had to have some money so he'd take a job and work a little bit so that they would pay him and figure out a way to either get fired or quit. The other thing that everyone who encountered him said in interviews later was something about his eyes. People called them piercing. But a lot of people referred to them as though they were evil. They said he had evil eyes.

Evil eyes. Now, have you ever met somebody who you would say had evil eyes? Yes. Have you? Yeah. Okay. See, I never... You're trouble.

You can tell you. You look at me like, okay. Well, that person's, they're a trouble. I got you. Yeah. I got you. See, I never know how much of this is people really seeing that ahead of time or later being interviewed after they know that this guy's killed X number of people.

Yeah. Saying, you know what, he had evil eyes. Yeah. So I never know. But a lot of people said it wasn't just like one person. So I think there really was something about this guy's eyes. Also in August of 1980, William Mansfield Sr. was indicted on 40 sex related charges, many of which involved children.

Well, that's a lot. It's also very sick. Yeah, obviously it is. Anytime you're talking about children and sex-related charges, it's going to be nasty. But think about, you know, these two guys, father and son. We know the son is a serial killer. We haven't detailed it out yet, but we know that. We set it up front.

And then we find out that dad was a really, really bad guy as well. The Tampa Bay Times reported that man's. Field Senior pleaded no contest to four of the 40 charges, which included fondling children and having sex with his young girlfriend in front of children. Wow. Oh, that's disturbing. Yeah, it really is. There were various reports that stated that he used his young girlfriend to help procure at least one of the children whom he assaulted. And I read somewhere where, you know, one of his victims was as young as nine. months old. And that's enough to just make you sick. I thought you were saying nine years old at first

which was, which is bad enough. And then you said nine months. Nine months old. I can't even comprehend. I can't comprehend any of it, but nine months. Just some of the evidence against him included pictures. He took of his girlfriend engaged in sexual acts with young girls. Now, I never did see the age of this girlfriend. Outlets just use the word young. So I'm thinking she was definitely underage. as well. And let's not forget, he's married. So he's got a, a girlfriend on the side who apparently is very, very young. Right. And then he's engaging in all these criminal acts with young children as well. So he pleaded guilty and was sentenced to 30 years in prison. Well, at least he got that. Yeah. You know, I could not make the argument that it should have been a lot longer. And I think most people listening

would say, you know, that many charges and counts of doing bad things with children. 30 years probably isn't enough. Sure. But we've seen where it's been a lot less. A whole lot less. So 30 years in 1980, I'm not too up in arms about it just because I know during that time period, some of the sentences were light. In December of 1980, Billy murdered 29 years.

29-year-old Renee sailing. The Tampa Bay Tribune reported that Renee's body was found on the morning of December 7th, 1980, in a shallow water-filled ditch near the entrance to the Santa Cruz dump. The body was spotted by a woman heading to the dump in her pickup truck. Renee was lying on her left side. Her blouse was pulled up above her breasts and her pants were pushed down to her feet. One tan boot was missing. Her blouse was torn. And it was reported that three small pieces were found in a turnout about 300 yards down the road. The Tampa Tribune wrote that a black cord was knotted so tightly around her neck that in some places it disappeared into the flesh.

Wow. There's a visual for you. Yeah. I mean, I think that really paints a disturbing picture. of not just only was she strangled, but with such force that it would cause, you know, this cord to disappear into her flesh. There was also evidence that Renee had been raped. Her body was bruised and scraped up, leading investigators to theorize that she had been dragged,

maybe like a long pavement or concrete or something like that. This is horrific, man. Well, this is the first murder we're talking about. And I'll just say right now, we're not covering the murders in order for a very specific reason. But this one is pretty nasty. But I also want to kind of look at the timing. Right. Let's go back to being released from prison in February.

Just a few months later, he commits a rape. Then he moves to California. And before the end of the year, he's killed a woman. Yeah. I mean, as far as we can tell, everything is just ramping up. It is. Yeah. Well, we're going to find out those that were at the end. Thankfully, investigators pretty quickly zeroed in on Billy Mansfield Jr. I mean, witnesses came forward putting Billy and Renee together about 12 hours earlier, which fit the medical examiner's time of death. People saw them sitting in Billy's car in the parking lot of the wood.

and nickel to bar. And the ditch where her body was found was about four miles from the bar and two miles from the K-O-A campground. And it was said to have been pretty much on a direct path if you were driving from the bar to the campground. Direct. So not looking good for Billy, right? No, not looking good at all. Seems as though he might have been the last one seen with Renee. her body is found essentially on the way back to his place of residence. Two days after Renee's body was found, Billy and his brother Gary took off to Nevada. Apparently one of Billy's coworkers had told him that the police were looking for him.

They had him in their sights. Now, it's pretty natural, right? For police to want to go interview people, friends, relatives. Some of those would be coworkers. Yeah, that would be the norm. But in this scenario, they kind of tipped their hand a little bit, I think, because one of those co-workers said, hey, buddy, you know, the police are, they're asking about you. And he obviously knows he just committed a murder.

Right. So he gets the heck out of Dodge. I better get out of here before they come knocking on my door. They even interviewed Maureen, who told them that she had left Billy in November because she was afraid of him. The Tampa Tribune reported that. she told investigators that Billy continually beat her and even threatened to kill her if she left him. She said he twice brought strangers to the trailer and forced her to have sex with him.

And one time he brought a teenage girl to the campsite and forced Maureen to watch while he had sex with this young girl. You're shaking your head like you have no idea what to say. I'm just dumbfounded. You know, what this guy is doing. I just. So, you know, for me, there's like two different components. One is, you know, it's hard to understand how someone can victimize women, children, all of that.

Now, this other component is for me, how is it that you think your partner is going to be okay with some of this stuff? Probably because he didn't care. He didn't care. And he put fear into her. And just thought that the. fear would be enough that I can pretty much do whatever I want. She's not going to tell anyone and or leave.

I'm going to tell her what she's going to do. And then I'm going to tell her what I'm going to do. Yeah. Now, obviously, she did leave. She found the courage to leave and then later to talk to investigators. So I mentioned it. The brothers fled to Nevada, but they knew who they were. And there was an APB out for the car they were driving.

They were spotted by a police officer in Winamaca, Nevada. You ever been to Winamaca? I haven't been to Winamaca, but it sounds fun to say. It is fun to say. It was fun when you said it. If we're saying it right. We don't know that we're saying it right, but it's fun to say however we say it. And I think the further back in time we go, you know, these types of captures, I think are even more amazing.

Right. It's 1980. technology being what it was back then, it really means that this patrol officer was, was really on it. Saw the APB, had it with him, whatever it was. Remembered it and didn't know how to do. Yeah. So he pulled them over.

The brothers tried to lie about who they were, but they were arrested. I think because they matched the description and then eventually they confirmed who they were. and after a little while they were shipped back to California. Billy was indicted for the murder of Renee Sailing and his brother Gary was indicted as an accessory to murder. And speaking of newspapers getting things wrong, there was one newspaper article that said they were both indicted for murder.

Okay. And then later on in a subsequent issue, they had to print and retract. and say, no, sorry, we messed up. Gary wasn't indicted for murder. He was indicted as an accessory to murder. But what I found very interesting was that the papers referred to them as the bag brother because they wore brown paper bags over their heads when they were arraigned. So this wasn't like the unknown comic.

Do you remember the unknown comic? Yeah, who had, back in the day? Did they were to disclose who that was? Oh, I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. but I remember the unknown comic. Some of the papers talked about how it wasn't like really their choice.

The authorities didn't want potential jurors or witnesses or whoever to see their faces and maybe get clouded or have something get messed up. All right. So let's reset. Big William is in prison and his sons, Billy and Gary are awaiting trial. Not great for the family. Not at all. Then in March of 1981,

something really big happened. And the Tampa Bay Times put together a really good chronology of the events around this. The police got a tip. The bodies were buried out at the Mansfield Place in WikiWatchy. And I don't know if this was given by the tipster or not, but there was a line in the research about police thinking. that they were going to find six bodies because this dig took a while. And so they were reporting on it like every day.

And I remember a quote from, you know, one of the investigators saying that they were expecting to find six bodies. So if that didn't come from the tipster, I don't know where they, they would have gotten that. I did read in one article that the tipster specifically referred to a missing woman named Sandra Jean Graham. So authorities went out on March 17 and they discovered a skeleton. The woman has never been identified, even to this day, and is only listed in reports as a white woman in her 20s. That's as far as they could go with it. Yeah. So obviously they could get some

characteristics or they think they know some characteristics, but that's not much to go on, right? Right. A white female. in her 20s. Then just three days later, on March 20th, they announced that Billy Mansfield Jr. was the prime suspect in the disappearance of 21-year-old Sandra Jean Graham, who had gone missing a year earlier. So, you know, it's thought that this tipster was really trying to figure out what happened to Sandra or knew what happened to Sandra and was leading police there. On March 25th, a second skeleton was found at the home. So you know, you have to picture it, right? They have this massive digging operation at this home in WikiWatchy. And I'm going to keep saying it because

it's just fun to say. But in all of the descriptions of this house, it sounds like it was a junkyard. And I'm sure you've seen people's houses like this. They've got four or five cars parked in the front yard. Some of them missing various things that would cause them to be functional. Got some indoor furniture on the outside. Yeah, but a toilet in the yard for whatever reason. We know the reason. What's not for using is they just haven't gotten rid of it.

I'm hoping. Yeah. I'm not saying every neighborhood has one of these, but I'm sure people listening have either known a house or seen a house like this where people just don't give a rip, it seems like. Yeah, they just put. stuff in the yard and they don't care. Because most outlets called it a junkyard, just stuff strewn all about.

But they've got, you know, earth movers and they've got this big dig site. And it was said in a bunch of different reports that during the whole thing, the mother of Virginia stayed in the home and she would come out and complain to the press about the digging. She said it was messing up their utilities. Well, that can happen. It really can. You know, when they dig, do all that digging, they can cut the power line. They can cut the telephone line. Well, sure. They could do all kinds of things. And you would probably be p-oed at that if you were just a regular homeowner. But when you're talking about it in the context of skeletons being unearthed on your property, it kind of puts it in a different light. Yeah, I think she's stuck on the wrong thing here. Yeah, I think I'd be a little bit more worried about why skeletons are buried in my yard and how,

you know, myself, my family, somebody's going to have to explain what's going on here. Two days later, the second skeleton found was identified through dental records as 15-year-old Elaine Ziegler. Elaine was from Warren, Ohio, but had disappeared on December 31, 1975, or January 1, 1976, depending on what source you look at, she disappeared from a K-O-A campground where she was camping with her family in Florida. Now, who do we know that seems to like K-O-A campground?

Well, we know Billy does. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. On April 3rd, authorities found a third skeleton and they said it appeared to be of a much older woman than the others. Just four days later, They found a fourth skeleton, and it was very quickly identified as that of 21-year-old Sandra Jean Grant. Sandra was last seen in 1980 at a place called Pam's Liquor Lounge, and it came out that this bar was just a short distance from the bamboo trailer haven where Billy lived at the time.

Got to like a place named Bamboo Trailer Haven. Sounds very ritsy to me. Yeah. I'm assuming it was not, but. You probably called it the BTH back then. Maybe. Yeah. It might have.

But, you know, hopefully people can see how I chose to tell this story a little bit out of order. More in the order of how police discovered things. Because, you know, obviously, we already know that Billy Mansfield Jr. was killing as far back as 1975. Yeah. So in total, they dug for four weeks. at the Mansfield property and unearthed the total of four skeletons. Like I said earlier, they thought there would be more. It was said that every day, the digging drew hundreds of onlookers.

And I can just imagine, you know, the house next door being roped off as a crime scene. And they've got these, you know, big machines in digging. Right. I feel like my whole neighborhood would be standing out front. Oh, wondering what in the heck is going on? What are they pulling out of the dirt? No doubt they would be. We'd be recording right next door, given the people the scoop.

But I'm thinking like of the people working, you know, doing the excavating. Or excavating. Or excavating. Yeah. What they must have felt going through this process, you know, and finding these bones. Yeah, we don't talk about those individuals a lot. Yeah. We talk about just people walking and finding.

and finding a body. But these are people going into it knowing that they're looking for bodies. But still, when you actually unearth something, there's got to be a strange kind of macab feeling. I would think so. That would go along with it. So you go home that night, you're laying in bed. That's going to be a pretty tough image, I would think, to get out of your head.

If you even can. Now, my thought is this would have been a pretty sad thing. So obviously for the families of the two victims who were identified, because they now know that their loved ones are dead. But then also for a lot of other families of missing loved ones, they know that two of the skeletons were not their relatives, but what about the other two? You know, as a family member, it would be rough because you want to know you found your law. to love one. Yeah, I don't know how that goes because, you know, I'm thinking you do, but you don't, right? You don't want your, your loved one to be dead, but you do want to know what happened to them. If they are dead, you want to find their body. You want to bring them home, bury them, all of that. I can see how it could be very tough, conflicting, emotions. Now, newspapers speculated that the two Jane does could have been a lot of different people. who had gone missing, you know, during the time frame.

And you think about it. You and I do a lot of missing cases. We do. There are a lot of people that go missing all over the world. So if you're talking about, let's say, an area around this location in Florida, go back three, four, five years before how many women, girls have gone missing, the number is probably fairly large. This is not that far from Tampa, pretty big.

big city. Right. It's going to be hard to get that list down to just a few. Yeah, because they're Jane Does. They haven't been able to identify them. Billy went on trial in California in July of 1981. Jurors weren't allowed to hear anything about the bodies unearthed in Florida. On August 10th, after four days of deliberation, a mistrial was declared by the judge. So apparently, they were deadlocked at a vote of nine to three guilty. So nine people voted guilty. Three voted not guilty and they weren't budging. It had to be unanimous. So what are you going to do? Nothing mistrial. The state told news outlets that there would be a second trial. Now this is Billy, right? Gary's trial was yet to come later that year and he made the decision that he would testify against his brother in exchange for immunity.

I mean, that's big news. It is. Would you testify against your brother in exchange for immunity? Which one? Oh, does it make a difference? They're probably listening and thinking, thank you, thank you. No, but so Gary is not, you know, going to go on trial for murder, but accessory to murder is still a very big deal. It is a huge deal.

No, he's going to go to prison if found guilty for how long I don't know, but longer than anybody he wants to go to prison, which is zero days. And when this opportunity comes up, he jumps on it. So they dropped the accessory to murder charge on him in exchange for his testimony. In October, Billy somehow escaped from the Santa Cruz jail, but he was recaptured in less than 12 hours. There's a lot of escaping going on back in the United States. You know that?

It seemed like it was very easy for people to just escape from jail. Now, I did read conflicting stories. There was one story where he had help from another inmate and a woman saw them. They're wearing these bright orange correctional institution issued jumpsuits. Everybody can picture those. And in this story, she said that she thought they were joggers. Just jogging down the road? Just jogging down the road in these orange outfits.

Very fashionable. Sure. Jogging outfit. But they found them both pretty quickly. In January of 1982, a Hernando County, Florida grand jury indicted Billy Mansfield on four counts of first-degree murder related to the four bodies unearthed. So, you know, this is the other thing that really jumped out of me about this case. You have the murder of Renee Sailing, right, committed in California. And then they unearthed all of these bodies in.

Florida and it's it's kind of all playing out in this strange timeline you know he's waiting to go to trial before he goes to trial they learn about all of this they can't present it to the jury because it really doesn't have anything to do I guess with the the California murder but then after this indictment he's still waiting to go to trial and you have Florida just kind of what sitting waiting in the wings. Yeah. Waiting to see what happens in California because they're going to want a piece of him too. Yeah, they want their time.

It's not a bad seat to have at the table, though. Like California, do what they've got to do. Like you said, they're going to hear how they plan on defending this. And then they can think about what do we need to do when we finally get our hands on them. Well, the good news is they know he's not going anywhere in the near term, right? He's not out walking around. He can't flee. unless he manages to escape again.

So yeah, I think they're in a pretty good position. He was also charged with the attempted sexual battery of a woman named Pamela Cheryl. In February of that year, Billy's second murder trial began. So this is 1982. It took a while, right? There were some delays.

Obviously, you had a mistrial. So, you know, we're almost two years on. The jury wasn't allowed to hear about the bodies in Florida. or the charges against Billy related to those bodies either, just like the first jury. But in about two weeks, the trial wrapped up and the jury convicted Billy Mansfield,

Jr. of the first degree murder of Renee Sailing. And I found it interesting that Gary was never even called to testify. So he was given immunity and didn't even have to testify. Now, I'm sure his brother knew what he had done, but I didn't find any. you know, information around it. Maybe the state thought that he wouldn't be good for their case. Obviously, they must have thought that or they would have called him. Yeah.

Yeah. Also, it was reported that the jury did later learn about the bodies in Florida. You would think after that you'd feel even better about your decision. Yeah. I mean, I think as a juror, if you were even the slightest bit on the fence about it. Right. And you went guilty because you felt as though he was. was more likely than not guilty.

It's probably pretty cemented in your mind after you find out that, okay, they unearthed all these bodies at his family's house and he's been charged with these. I do remember the last time I served on a jury. It wasn't a murder case. Yeah. But it was a pretty interesting case. And afterwards, the prosecutor came in to talk to us and gave us a whole bunch of information on the defendant that he wasn't allowed to say during trial,

kind of like this. But he could say it like that. Yeah, because the trial was over. Done. He's like, oh, by the way, did it help you feel better about what you did?

I was pretty certain anyway, but it did kind of just tack on like, oh, this guy had done a whole bunch of bad things that they couldn't introduce, I guess. I guess if it didn't go the way, the prosecutor's not going to come in and say anything.

So you don't understand. Yeah, probably not. Yeah. Hey, you messed up. Yeah, here's why. This guy did this, this and this. But I thought that was interesting. I never knew that that happened or that was allowed to happen.

I didn't either. That's good that they do that because at least you can go home as a juror and feel better about your decision and sleep. You know, you build asleep better. On April 6, 1982, Billy Mansfield Jr. was sentenced to 25 years to life for the murder of Renee Sailing and sent him. off to prison. I think he served time in a number of different California prisons, including Folsom, one of your favorites. Absolutely. The Tampa Bay Times reported that after his sentencing, Billy's ex-wife, Phyllis, gave a sworn statement in Hernando County Circuit Court. She said that one of Billy's brothers helped bury a body in the backyard. She also said that Billy is

bisexual and brought men home from gay bars so he could have sex with them. in front of her and that Billy discussed a murder with her. Wow, that's big time to give an affidavit like that. It's just not like you're telling a friend. No, way different, right? You're putting yourself on record. You're opening yourself up for what legal repercussions. If you're not telling the truth, you're giving a sworn statement.

And we're learning more about Billy. Yeah, obviously if what she is saying is true, and again, it's a sworn statement, we are learning some things. Okay, he's bisexual. Doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme of things. But he's bringing men home and having sex with them in front of her. So pretty reminiscent of what Maureen told investigating. Now, she just said strangers.

She didn't specify. I don't think whether they were male, female. But it's kind of, you know, very similar. forcing her to have sex with strangers while he watches, forcing her to watch him have sex with someone. That seems like something that he must have really been into for both of the women in his life to claim that he did that. Yeah. To them. I guess at the very least, it probably, you know, leans towards being truthful, more truthful because you kind of got a little bit of corroboration.

from another person. So Billy had been convicted of one murder, but Florida wanted to crack at him, right? We talked about that. And now he's going to be facing the death penalty. It was printed in a number of papers that his lawyer said that Billy was not planning to plea bargain. Which is kind of shocking.

You think they would try that? Well, that's what Florida wanted him to do because I read that they had run the numbers and it was reported that. Their estimate was that it would cost about three quarters of a million dollars to try him, but they thought that could be low. Some people said it could cost as much as $2 million. Wow.

That's a lot of money. How much does the whole thing cost if he pleads guilty? I don't know, but it sure as heck is not $750,000 is definitely not $2 million. You're going to save a boatload of money and you're going to get pretty much the same outcome. or the desired outcome. Ultimately, Billy did end up pleading guilty to four counts of first-degree murder and one count of attempted sexual battery and false imprisonment. He was given life sentences for each of the four murders and five years for the other count.

Okay. So I get it. They wanted the death penalty to entice him to plead guilty. They took the death penalty off the table. He got four life sentences. And you look at that on the surface and you think, oh, that, that's great. That's what he deserves. Yeah, it seems like it's okay.

I get it for life sentences. That's good. Yeah, he's never going to get out, right? He'll spend the rest of his life in jail. The problem I had with it was that they were set to run concurrent. Not just the four life sentences in Florida. They were also set to run concurrent to his California murder sentence, right? So what he get, 25, 30 year, 20,

years to life, I think it was. Yeah. Now he's got four life sentences, but he could come up for parole. And so if they're all running concurrently, which I hate. Yeah, I do too. I think a lot of people hated it. I think a lot of people had a problem with it at the time because it was said. It was printed in papers that he could potentially be out in as little as 25 years.

Now, you think about 25 years. That's a very long time. but not for what this guy did. It's a long time if you were found with a baggy of weed in 1984. And some people got, you know, crazy sentences, three strikes or, or whatever it was.

You can look back on that and say, oh, what were we doing, right? Sending people away for, for 25 years. But this is a man who admittedly killed at least five people and committed a whole slew of other,

you know, sex-related, crimes, I don't want this dude walking out on the street in 25 years. I don't want I'm walking on the street ever. No. Oh, I really don't either. But, you know, I think people were right to think, okay, this might not have been the best course of action. Now, we know most people like this, right, with a record like this guy has, it's not going to get out in 25 years. I can't imagine them getting out. No, you're not going to go up in front of a parole board and they're going to say, well, you killed five people, but I know you've been a good person.

We're going to go ahead and release you. Yeah, we're going to release you right on your first parole date. That's not going to happen. But just the mere fact that it could, I think that, you know, that drives people up a wall. The Tampa Bay Times did an article on the fifth anniversary of the crimes in it. They talked about not only Billy, but his mother and father as well. William Mansfield Sr. was said to have been an exemplary inmate and was great. as outstanding in all areas. So it sounds like, you know, pretty much all of your reviews

that you've ever gotten. It's your job. Outstanding. Exactly. William Sr. told the paper that he felt remorse for his action, saying you'd have to be a complete nut if you didn't. But he added that he didn't think about the children. He admitted victimizing saying, I take and leave all of that outside. How do you do that? So on the one hand, you feel guilty. about it, but on the other hand, you never think about it. So are you really truly feeling guilty about it? Or are you just saying that because you know that the parole board's going to read this in the paper and it's going to make you look good? I think there's some truth behind that. My thought is if you really felt guilty about doing something as heinous as this man did,

it would be next to impossible to completely block it out, wouldn't it? I would think so. I'm not saying you'd have to think about it every second of every day, but it would have to cross your mind if you truly felt this level of guilt that you're saying you do. Yeah, if you're really remorseful, absolutely. It's going to come across. I don't think you can just be like, yeah, I'm really remorseful. I'm never, but I'm never going to think about it again. We're starting now. It's out of my mind. Never going to think about it. No, I think you wake up every morning in prison, jail, and you look at that. And you feel bad about what you did. Absolutely. If you're truly remorseful. That's the key right there, right? Truly. Truly.

Versus what people say. That's kind of like what we always analyze. In this article, it was stated that Virginia Mansfield visited her husband, William, every Sunday, except four Sundays in the five years since he was imprisoned. And this wasn't down the street. This was a two. 218 mile drive that she had to make every single week. She wrote weekly to her son Billy and she told the paper that she didn't believe that her husband was guilty. She also said she didn't believe what her son Gary had said against Billy. She did say she believed Billy was guilty of the killings. I read in other places where she didn't believe he was, but in this paper she said that. But she said he didn't know what he was doing. So she really talked a lot about, you know, the alcoholism.

I think she even called him psychotic or, you know, said he had some mental health issues in one of the articles. And I did read somewhere where Maureen said that, you know, apparently he had been to the VA hospital a couple of times, like in the late 70s for, you know, his alcoholism. They had given him some type of medication. that makes you sick when you drink. And she said when he was taking that, he was okay.

Really? But when he stopped taking it, he was a completely different person. Back to his old. Not just the fact that he would start drinking, but then he would become violent and this and that. But to me, I think what capped it off in this article

was that Virginia still lived in the house where the bodies were dug up. So she lived there, while they were in the ground. She was living there while they excavated them. And then she continued to live there, knowing what, what happened there?

Now, you can make the argument that who wants to buy that house? I couldn't get rid of it, maybe possibly. It'd be difficult, I think, to get rid of. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, you're going to take a bath, even if somebody's willing to, to buy it. They also reported that Billy was moved to San Quentin, just 11 days after Charles Manson got there. Wow.

I thought that was interesting. The Times wrote that he was in a maximum security ward, locked in a cell four feet, six inches wide, 10 feet, eight inches long, and seven feet seven inches high. You know, you round that up. Five by 11, man. Five by 11 cell. It's not big. No.

It's not big. You know, I'm picturing the metal bed that's bolted into the wall. Right. You got your silver toilet. Toilet sink in the other corner. Yeah. I'd tell you about the show that I was watching where they had the, the county jail that was just really, really high.

Yeah. And they had figured out a system of how to talk through the toilets between floors. Drop by. And dropping, uh, notes and substances. I don't know. It was like flush once and that's like, let's start talking. Okay. flush twice.

I'm done. Ends of the call. I don't know. It was something like that. I just thought it was interesting. Well, you think about it. It's all drain pipes, right? Yeah.

And they're stacked on top of each other for. Yeah, but you're talking, you have to get down in there. Yeah. You're talking into the place where you do your business. Got to scoop all the water out. I don't know. That's not for me, man. Yeah.

But that is a pretty small space. But I don't feel bad for, you know, Billy Mansfield. I don't think anybody does. He was allowed access to the exercise yard every two days and allowed to shower every three days, always under guard. So yeah, you can go out and walk around, but there's going to be somebody with you. Yeah.

And you can take a shower, but there's going to be somebody with you. I don't even know why you need to shower every three days if you're by yourself. I mean, I guess just, so it's not cruel and unusual punishment. Yeah. It's probably good to clean,

have the prisoner clean themselves every now and then. Oh, I'm sure it is. Infection. Yeah, that's part of it. So it said breakfast was at seven. and lunch at 1130, dinner between three and four. It's an early dinner, man. I mean, you're in prison.

You take what you get. I'm just saying that's early. Well, if you've just eaten lunch at 1130, yeah. Yeah. I guess it is pretty early. But my assumption is they want to get all, and they have to stagger maybe some of it, but they want to get all that done and out of the way.

Yeah. They don't really care that you're hungry, you're not hungry. It said that he got clean sheets weekly and clean blankets monthly. And I know this irks a lot of. of people. Yes, you're in prison. You don't have freedom, but you're getting a lot of things that people here in this country can't, don't even have regular meals. Three meals a day. Yeah. And we're all paying for it. Yeah. I don't, I don't know what, you know, the solution is to it because we don't want these people walking the streets. So, you know, and you got to give them food. But I know that rubs some

people the wrong way that they have access to what a lot of people here don't, uh, don't have. The Tampa Bay Times reported that on July 20th, 2022, one of the two Jane Doe's was identified as 16 year old Teresa Caroline filling up. Teresa was just a week away from her 17th birthday when she went missing. Her sister Margaret Johns reported her missing to Tampa police on May 16th, in 1980. The identification was made with the help of Parabon Nanolabs. And I think you and I have talked about Parabon Nanolabs before. I know Morph and I have talked about them a lot. Yeah, we have. They've done a lot of stuff in identifying, you know, unidentified people, especially over the last few years.

They really helped out with the genetic genealogy route. They've got this thing called a snapshot. shot that they created that's really helped the police. But I want to look back through the timeline again. So Mansfield got out of prison in February of 1980. And we know now that he made his way to Florida by at least May to abduct and kill Teresa. In June, we know he raped Pamela Sherrill. And then later that year went to California because he murdered in December.

So at the very least, we have four victims in Florida, one in California. One victim is still yet unidentified, as far as I could tell. Gibbs, I can't help but think. There are more victims of this monster, Billy Mansfield Jr. I can't imagine that there's not more victims. It does seem like he traveled quite a bit. Sure. It's hard to believe that with his track record, he wouldn't have more victims in the

states that we know of, Michigan, Florida, California. And then especially in some of the states where he would be traveling through. You know, I think he went back and forth from Florida to Michigan quite a bit. So you think about going through Georgia and Tennessee and Kentucky and Ohio. Okay. Are you telling me he didn't pull off and murder people? It's really tough to believe that that didn't happen, a guy who seemingly had no issue killing people. Of course, I always think that the numbers are probably higher. Billy would be about 66, I think today, something like that. Yeah. Ten years older than me. Yeah. And he's still in a California prison, as far as I could tell, but I couldn't find him on the California inmate lookup page. But everything I read said he's still

in a California prison. Well, unlike a lot of stories. There was recent reporting on this story because they just identified Teresa last year. So there were a lot of news articles written about that. William Mansfield Sr. was released in 1990 after serving only 10 years of his sentence. So, you know, we go back to what he did, which was horrible. Oh, my gosh. Now, he didn't, he didn't kill anybody. But I think most people listening would say, short of murder, there's, there's, there's

nothing worse that you can do. Exactly. To harm a child. And it wasn't one child. Oh my gosh. It was 40 counts. And and I get it. He only, you know, pleaded guilty to four of them. But he got 30 years. So somebody had to sit down and make the decision that, yes, this guy is rehabilitated. He's been a model inmate. Exactly. We're going to let him out after 10 years. He must have really put the show on to get out the door. I don't know. If I'm on that parole board, I'm having a real tough time with that. Somebody said 30 years. Now, I get it. You may not have to do the whole 30. Right. But 33% of it? That doesn't seem right. No, you, you'd have to think you're going to at least do 20 of it. And now do you want this guy out living next to you? And that's the question that, that I ask a lot. If you're on that

parole board and you've got kids, do you want William Mansfield Senior moving in next door to you. And for me, that answer is no. Me neither. Now, I get it. The guy's probably in his 80s. Yeah. 80 something. Still. Or, I mean, when he was released. He's not alive today. I couldn't figure out when he died, but he'd be 110 or something. Something like that. If he were alive today. I just wouldn't want him as my neighbor. No, I wouldn't either. I get it. People deserve a second chance at some point, but I don't think it's right after 10 years for this guy and what he did. I guess I'll say that. Billy's brother, Gary, was arrested in 2020 on drug possession and distribution charges. So again, even more, you know, kind of new reports in in this case.

This family does not like to stay out on the news. No, no. Newsreak reported that Gary in a bid to get immunity told police that there were many more bodies buried all over the place out there. And in this article, it was said that more remains were unearthed and that they also located items on a nearby property that were deemed to be suspicious, but were separate and apart from the drug charges. Okay. So that makes it sound like they have something to do with maybe murder or something like that. The problem is I couldn't find any other reporting about it. It's been a couple of years and so either they haven't released it or, you know, they're holding on to their holding. I don't know. They're just, there wasn't anything that I could find unless I just missed

it. According to Tampa Bay.com in an article about the identification of Teresa Fillingham, court documents said that the women were all sexually assaulted by both Mansfield Jr., his younger brother Gary and their father, William Mansfield Senior. It was Mansfield Jr., though, who would eventually kill the women and often dismember them. This is according to court records, but I couldn't find the court records. This is what Tampa Bay.com reported. If that is true, it sheds a different light on Gary, I think. We already knew Senior was bad. We already knew that junior was bad, Gary was charged with accessory to murder. And I really don't know what it amounted to or what it was related to, just the fact that he was with his brother. He fled with his brother.

I don't know. But one thing that kept nagging me, the whole time that I was researching and writing this one was that, so you have this family home in WikiWachi. Yeah, like saying that. I know. like saying that. Bodies are being buried there, at least four, maybe more now that, that have been unearthed. How does somebody not know that a person or people are burying bodies in your backyard? I'm thinking about my backyard right now. It would be very hard for someone to bury a body and me not be able to notice that somebody's dug a huge hole, filled it back in, even if they'd covered it with grass again. It'd be almost impossible.

Yeah. So that's what I kept coming back to was how involved were some of these people in either the sexual assaults, the murders, or at the very least, the cover up, right? They knew about it but didn't say anything. And it could be that William Mansfield Jr. is the one that killed all these women, or others could have been involved, or they could have been involved in sexual assault

or whatever it is. I just couldn't get over the fact that, you know, he was able to do all this and no one noticed. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. Or was it that they noticed and they weren't going to say anything? Because they were too afraid. Or were involved.

Or were involved. So I don't know. I can't. definitively say anything because I don't know. But that was a nagging thought that kept going through my mind the whole time. You know, I don't leave the house a lot. You don't. But I let my dogs out. Yeah. I walk them. I do stuff with them. I take them out in the yard. I know right now that's not passing the test. I'm not missing that. Right. You got to dig a substantial bit to bury bodies. Yeah. Now, I get it. These bodies could have been dismembered and and somewhere I read where I think one was just like a bag of bones. But still, you still have to do it. You're disturbing the earth. Yeah. And it's kind of hard to cover that up, I think. Now, if you've got 13 broken down cars on your property, maybe not as hard, right? Because you dig the hole and then you just push one of the cars over it. Yeah. But I, but I, but I don't know. I don't know if that was the case or not. It was said to a. It was said to a.

have been a junkyard. But in wrapping up, Gibbs, you know, this is one that kind of grabbed me as I was going through it. I just thought, you know, what was this guy's childhood really like? It comes out later that his dad was this really bad guy who committed sexual crimes against children. Could he have been a good father? Was he a good role model?

Or like you've often talked about, did Billy Mansfield Jr. you know, kind of witness his dad doing certain things and grow up to believe that those things were okay to do. I think so or normal because I do think that happens sometimes. Definitely think he had an influence on him. But either way, it's a, it's kind of a, you know, a messed up family. Definitely a messed up family. I mean, dad, the two sons.

I don't, I don't know anything about the other sons or the other children. and you know, Virginia was there the whole time. Yeah. Did she know anything? Did she see anything? I have no idea. But, you know, she stuck by her husband, even with all the evidence that came out saying he wasn't guilty. There was some conflicting information about what she thought about.

Billy's convictions. In some reports it said she didn't believe it. And some she said she did, but there were circumstances that caused him to do it. so I don't know. You kind of like to know what happened to the other siblings. Yeah. And what road they ended up down after hearing about, you know, their two brothers and what they did. Yeah, but, you know, if they turned out to be upstanding citizens, they probably wouldn't

want to be in the news or connected to all this. And I would understand that. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. If people ask me to give an interview, I would probably say, no, thanks. I'm doing good. Yeah.

I don't really want my name in the paper. Nothing, nothing's changed to talk about, right? To be associated with, with all of this mess. But that's it for our episode on William Mansfield Jr. The one thing that I did think was weird for this type of case was that there wasn't a ton of information on how the individuals died. Because normally we kind of go through that. We do. But four of the five people were found so many years later.

they were skeletonized, just skeletons. And I don't know that Billy was giving up a lot of information. Yes, he pleaded guilty. But if you think about it, he didn't even give up the names of the two people who were still unidentified. No, he didn't. At that point. And you would have thought maybe that might have been part of a plea deal.

Hey, at least you got to give us the names. Yeah, at least show some goodwill to get us. or help us, you know, to identify these people. So, yeah, I don't know that he gave up a lot of information. So, but we've got some voicemails. You want to check those out? Just hear those. Hello.

I was listening to Blue Eyes 6 and wanted to let you know that Ben said the authorities can remove a child from a home to place a more respectable as servants or for help me. Keep your own time ticket. Later. Okay. I did not know that. You know, we, uh, we talked about it in that episode. It's not a phrase that I had ever heard before. Now, I get it. It goes back, you know, a little ways. So I just thought it was something that was used back then, but wasn't used today. Yeah. But I appreciate it. At first, I thought he was driving in the, uh, in the Daytona 500 there. And he was like, like, woo.

That's what I was wondering too. You could hear like the wind blowing by. Yeah. Like he was leading the Daytona 500. Hi, guys. My name is Madga. I am Polish, but I have lived in Ireland for the past 17 years. I am quite a new listener to Europe's both podcasts.

And I have to say that I really do enjoy listening to the two of you. and I do appreciate how much detail you put into each episode and the research that goes into it and I just love your sense of humor. You really do work great together and bounce off of each other in a very funny way. And I thought I would perhaps give a suggestion for a case from Poland, but I'll save you the hustle of trying to pronounce Polish names. So I thought of an Irish case that is quite known here, quite big. It's a case of Graham Gwyer, who's a convicted murderer.

You might want to check it out. I don't know if you're planning on doing any cases from Ireland, but I think this one would be a very interesting one. Okay, so I think that's it. I hope it wasn't too long. Take care. Keep up the good work and keep your own time thinking. Bye, bye, bye, bye.

Nice email. Yeah. It was a voicemail, but yeah, it was nice. No, I'm not familiar with that case, but we'll definitely put it on the list and look into it. Appreciate all the voicemails. We had some mailbag Gibbs. Amelia sent us in some Chicago-style podcast. popcorn, but also some halapeno cheddar.

Ooh, jalapeno cheddar. From a place called cranky mics. Well, which seems like what I would call my popcorn place if I had one. Really, what your should be the sign coming down the stairs. It should be. It should be. Cranky mics. But both very good.

Yeah. And both very much appreciated. All right, buddy. That is it for another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby. Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.