True Crime All The Time - William Riley Gaul

Episode Date: November 28, 2022

In November 2016, William Riley Gaul fatally shot his 16-year-old girlfriend, Emma Walker, while she slept. His defense attorneys argued that he never meant to kill her. He was only trying to scare her so he could be a “hero.” Prosecutors claimed that Riley murdered Emma because he couldn’t handle it when she ended their two-year relationship.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss William Riley Gaul and the murder of Emma Walker. Gaul did his best to cover his tracks, but in the end, there was no doubt that he murdered Emma. The biggest question boiled down to his intent. Did he intend to kill her as the prosecution contended, or was he trying to win her back by scaring her? This is a case that has divided many people. But, no matter what side you land on, one fact remains, a young woman lost her life at the hands of William Gaul.You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

everyone and welcome to episode 311 of the true crime all the time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime. Mike Gibson, give me, how are you? Man, I'm doing good. How about you? I'm doing really well. You and I are taping, uh, recording Wednesday before Thanksgiving. Absolutely. And we just got done recording a Patreon episode that is already out now, but it has a Thanksgiving theme. I guess you would say. It does, but it doesn't make me want to have Thanksgiving tomorrow. No, and that's why I made sure it came out after Thanksgiving. Didn't help me.

No, because we're recording before Thanksgiving. But it's on a guy named Joel Guy Jr. In Tennessee, who killed his parents. And that's about all I'm going to say, because I want to make sure people listen to it. It's a really good episode. It is. We also have an episode out right now on True Crime All the Time Unsolved about, about the mysterious death of Andre Roland.

And this is a case that I think a lot of people, you know, will at the very end, going to be trying to figure out where they stand. Yes. You know, there's people who are going to be in one camp of, this is what happened to Andre. Right. And there's going to be people in another camp who are saying, no, I don't believe what either the authorities have said, the conclusions they. came to, there has to be something more to it. Yeah. So it'll be interesting to see where everybody

falls on this one. Yeah. But it's, there's a lot of that type of information. Yes. In this one. So definitely check it out. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. We had Nicole Munoz. Hey, Nicole. Morbid God. What's going on? Morbitt. Ela. Well, appreciate that. Ayla. Karen Nix. Hey, Nick. Molly Powell. What's up, pal? Tabitha Churchward. Oh, churchward. Natalie Pastura. Appreciate that, Natalie. Ryan, Hey, Ryan. Lisa Marie Hawkins. Hey, there's Hawkins.

Georgia. Well, thank you, Georgia. Michelle Bennett. Hey, Michelle. Randy Zaire. What's up, Zare? Adam Reeves. Hey, Superman Reeves.

Nicola Furlong. What's going on? Furlong, you know, I have furlongs in my family. Just want you to, you know, from the Boston, from the Boston area. Boston, forlons. Boston. Melanie Houghton. What's going on?

Hot. Martin's Julie. I like that name Martins. Kelly Geiss. What's going on, Geis? And last but not least. Kimberly DeBean. Well, thank you, Kimberly.

And then if we go back into the vault, this week, we selected Kate Fleming. There's the famous Kate. Yeah, we appreciate all the new support, the continued support. We had great PayPal donations from Christine Hyde. Hey, thanks, Christine. A large donation from Karen Hartberg.

What is going on, Karen? And a donation for a very happy birthday to Aisha Chitou from Hakeem and the kids. Man, well, happy birthday. they, Aisha. Yeah. So that's very, very cool. All right, buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time? I am ready. In November 2016, William Riley Gall, Faley shot his 16-year-old girlfriend, Emma Walker, while she slept. His defense attorneys would later argue that he never meant to kill her. He was only trying to scare her so that he could be

a hero. Now, prosecutors claim that Riley murdered Emma because he couldn't handle it when she ended their two-year relationship. And this case takes place in Tennessee, Knox County, Tennessee. And it was while researching this case that I found our Patreon case that also takes place in Knox County, Tennessee. And it just so happens that the murders in both of these cases took place in the exact same month and year. Wow. November 2016. A little spooky.

We always say sometimes when we research these episodes, we come across other cases, sometimes multiple cases. Yeah. Find them at the same time frame. It's amazing. Well, yeah, to find that the murders have in the same time frame. Now, these cases definitely overlap in the research because as we talked, talked about in the Patreon, you know, his trial got delayed by the pandemic.

They referenced this case and and vice versa. In 2014, 14 year old Emma Walker started her freshman year at Central High School in Knoxville, Tennessee. She joined the cheerleading squad. Lauren Hutton, a senior cheerleader told ABC, Emma really took cheerleading seriously. She really loved doing it. It was one of her passions. she loved reading and she loved football games.

She loved just being part of the crowd appeal. You always love that too. Always. Now, one of the football players noticed Emma, a junior wide receiver named William Riley Gall. Riley was raised by his mother and grandparents. He was a top student. Despite playing football, his friend said that he wasn't what we would refer to as kind

of the classic jock. Yeah. One of his friend, Zach Green, told ABC he was a little nerdy on the side, a little to himself from the outside looking in. You'd think he was just a normal guy. It's a normal quiet guy. Jill Walker, Emma's mother liked Riley at first. She described him as kind of the boy next door, polite, likable. Emma's father, Mark Walker also thought Riley was a nice guy.

Everybody likes those nice guys. Well, if you win over both mom and dad, okay, you're doing pretty good. You are. Sometimes you can win one over and not the other. But we also know that some kids can put on an act. They can. As the father of two girls, not saying I've seen it. I'm just saying, you got your eye out.

I got my eye out. Emma's parents allowed the two to spend supervised time together at the house. and they were allowed to go out on dates. Emma's friends thought that she was happy with Riley. She often posted pictures of herself and Riley on social media. Her pictures showed them spending time together and smiling. Emma's best friend Keegan Lyle told ABC, Gall didn't really talk to us, her friends a lot.

But I was just like, ah, he's shy. It just seemed normal. But then after a while was when we got kind of concerned. Yeah, I can see how that would be concerning after a little time passes by. In the beginning, you're thinking, well, he's shy. It's going to take a while maybe to come around and start to talk to us. But if a person never does, right. Okay.

Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Then maybe you could see why they were concerned. It started to seem like Riley didn't want Emma to spend time with anyone but him. Kegan said he became kind of controlling over her, what she did in her activity. Okay, now you're starting to see some red flags. Sure. Anytime people use the word controlling, it is usually not good.

No, never good in a relationship. According to Lauren Hutton, he got more possessive. He got more clinging towards Emma. And he wouldn't allow her to do certain things. So Emma and Riley were together for two years. And, you know, like a lot of young people do, Gibbs, they repeatedly, broke up, but then got back together. Their friends said that they had some really dramatic arguments, and sometimes they argued over text or Snapchat. Things that, uh, you didn't really hear back in

the day, but argued over Snapchat. You didn't really hear? How about you didn't hear because there was no text and there was no Snapchat. I still don't understand fully what Snapchat is. I have an idea of what it is. I've never used it. What do you think? Arguing over. text and Snapchat really take away the core of an argument. How do you get the inflection? Yeah. How does the other person really know what level of emotions that you're, you're trying to convey with the eggplant parmesan emoji or whatever?

Stay away from the eggplant parmesan. Oh, yeah. I forgot. People keep telling me that means something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you know what I'm saying. Oh, I know. You know, what are you going to put frowny face?

mad face, eyebrows arched. Yeah, we could put all caps. I figure if you're arguing it's all in all caps anyway. Yeah. You know. Friends said that Riley told Emma what she should and shouldn't wear. And he did it so often that, you know, some of these friends started to talk to Emma about what they were seeing. According to Lauren Hutton, Riley started to wait for Emma outside a local grocery store where Emma worked for hours at a

time. Yeah, that's definitely possessive. Possessive bordering on stalking type of behavior. ABC reported that Emma's friends told her that they didn't like the way Riley was treating her, but she just kind of brushed it off. You know, people in the relationship, sometimes they don't see what's going on the way people on the outside see it. Yeah, I think that's very true. Eventually, Riley started to send angry Snapchat messages to Emma, some of which said things like, I hate you. I hate everything about you. And you're the biggest bitch I've ever come in contact with. One said, you're dead to me. I'll check the obituary F you. Okay, it's pretty brutal stuff. It is. It's always hard to take those things back after you say them, especially when you put them in text messages. Well,

these are Snapchat. Snapchat messages. And from what I understand, Snapchat is one of the ones that disappears, right? Like I said, I don't know. I've never used it. I've heard that, though. I think it does disappear. I think you have a short period of time that you can screenshot it. But if you don't get it right away,

does I just say get it? Get her done? Yeah. Yeah. But, I mean, I'm just going back to these messages and these are just nasty. They're more than angry. They're nasty. Absolutely.

I would never accept that from somebody talking to my kid like that. No. And Emma's mom, Jill saw this last message, right? The you're dead to me. I'll check the obituary F you. Right. She saw that one. She questioned Riley about it.

And Riley said, well, he's just angry. But Emma's parents banned Riley from their home. And they even took Emma's cell phone away in an effort to stop her from communicating with him. Yeah. That's a good thing. When someone is being abusive like that, I mean, she's 14. he's probably a junior 16 17 yeah yeah yeah i think i would probably act in a similar way but as we know it is hard especially today to keep people from communicating there's so many ways

to do it and what happened was riley gave emma an ipop and she used wi-fi to start texting him well you know like you said if there's a will there's a way and that's what happened right you gave her a little iPod and said this is how we're going to communicate and basically what her friend said was that you know what Riley would do he would send Emma an angry message and then apologize and then he would say something like you know I'm sorry I love you more than words can describe it was just a real from what I understand from what you know I've read a really a real real up and down back and forth type of relationship, volatile, kind of. Emma's parents told her that she should break up with Riley a number of times. Jill told ABC, but as you do that with the

teenager, the more you butt heads, the more she's going to think. He is in the right, because he had a way of isolating her and making her think that he was the only one. Well, that's what somebody does when they want to control their relationship. Well, the isolation, right? You and I have talked about that a number of times. You know, it happens in grooming. It happens in a lot of these situations where these people figure out a way to isolate a person from their friends, their family.

And what happens is they start to kind of become really the only person or it seems like they're the only person in someone's life. Yeah, you have nowhere else to go but me. Yes, a bad situation. In the fall of 2016, Emma and Riley were still dating. Riley had graduated high school and by this time was a freshman at Maryville College. Emma was a junior in high school around Halloween. Emma's parents grounded her and only allowed her to leave the house for school and cheerleading. They also monitored her location. This worked. And Mark Walker told ABC, she did become like her old self again. She started coming out of her room. She started eating dinner with us and socializing with us. We're getting her confidence back. Maybe. Maybe. I, you know,

I don't know. I've gone through this with, you know, my girls where it seems as though for periods of time, they get into what I call funks. Yeah. Now, we're not talking anything like what we are here with, with Emma Walker. Of course. But they would rather be in their room, not out watching TV with us.

And then, you know, for weeks, they'll, they seem different. And, you know, kind of goes back and forth,

depending on what's going on in their life. Emma texted her friend Kegan and said that she and Riley were done for good. So I, I think the main point. is that the separation, the kind of getting away from each other really was good for her. Well, yeah, because she was finally able to see other people cared about her besides him. Well, and it seemed like her life was changing for the better. But Riley was struggling after the breakup.

At one point, he swallowed some Vicodin pills and drank alcohol in an attempt to end his own life. his friends noticed that he was very depressed. Alex McCarty told ABC he would be off to the side, moping and saying things like, oh, I just feel so depressed. I want to hurt myself. Just things like that.

He would just say a lot as a cry for help, I guess, in a way, right? So this is after the fact, his friends talking to, you know, a program like ABC.

On Friday, November 18th, 2016, Emma's parents, allowed her to go to a friend's house. At 1130, Emma's friend, Zach Green, also came to this house. Emma pulled him aside and told him that she'd been getting strange text from an unknown number.

According to Zach, the text said things like, go to your car with your keys. Go alone. I've got someone you love. If you don't comply, I will hurt them. Right? That's scary stuff. It's scary. especially at that age, you know, when you're...

Yeah, she's young. She's what, 16 years old. At this point, yeah. A junior in high school, barely, you know, been driving. Not, you know, not all that long. Emma thought it was one of Riley's friends playing a prank on her. The Washington Post reported that she sent a text, threatening to call the police, but she received more messages.

One said, we have him now. If you don't care about him anymore, then it's... shouldn't bother you. Call the police and he dies. Your choice. If you'd like to hear his final screams, give me a call. He's in a ditch beside the house. It's a shame you can all of a sudden not value someone's life. Gibbs, this is something you would see in some psychological thriller slash horror movie. Absolutely. It would be. I'm calling from inside the house or, you know, if you, you don't know who I am, but if you don't follow this set of instructions, something really bad is going to happen. Yeah, you're screaming at the TV. Don't do it. Don't go. Yeah, don't, don't, don't open that door.

Yeah. According to ABC, Emma asked Zach for help. She told him, Zach, listen. They said they dropped Riley outside. So Emma and Zach went outside and they saw someone laying face down in a ditch near the house. It was Riley Gall. Zach Green. later told ABC, we finally get to him and he's pulling up his head, kind of has a confused look on his face. Emma's like, why are you here? He said, I don't know what happened. I don't know how I got here. I've been kidnapped. Someone dropped me off here. I don't know what's happening. Where am I? How did I get here? And he was holding his head like he got hit upside the head. It was just very strange. I'm sure it looked very strange. Emma told Riley that they had just broken up and she asked him to leave her alone.

So apparently Riley walked down the street and called his friend Noah Walton. He told Noah he'd been kidnapped, but Noah didn't believe him. Riley said people had knocked him out, took his car, put him in a van and he didn't know where he was. Riley told him not to call 911 to report it. And none of Emma's friends called the police that night either. because it didn't seem believable. Well, I think you have to take that. His own friend didn't believe him. Riley and her friends didn't believe him.

Emma went home the next morning. ABC reported that she texted her friends and said someone was at her house. I'm home alone and somebody in all black walked down my street and came to my door. They rang the doorbell over and over again. I thought I was going to die. So this man in black apparently had on sunglasses and a hoodie, but he kept his face covered. Emma also texted Riley and said, I hate you, but I need you right now. Riley responded by saying, I'm coming. I'm speeding. Just give me a minute. Emma didn't show up to meet her mother at a pre-planned

location that day. Jill went home and she saw Emma and Riley in the front yard. She asked Riley to leave and he told her, no, I'm here to help. I'm making sure Emma is okay. Jill told him to leave again and he did. So I think it's pretty evident that Emma's parents didn't like this guy. Absolutely. At all. No.

Emma thought the man at the house was a burglar or a stalker, but Jill told her, don't you find it up that Riley was involved or appeared at both events? She said, no, it wasn't him, mom. It wasn't him. Joel told ABC he's trying to get her attention to talk to him and going way overboard to do that. And I'd say you'd have to admit that was true. Sure. You know, if he was behind both of these things, that is going way overboard.

And I think sometimes if you're on the outside of that, you can kind of pick up on that. It's probably harder maybe for Emma to see it easier for the parents to say, this guy's playing you at this point. Yeah, I would agree with that. I think it's always harder for the person maybe, you know, directly involved to see everything that's going on as opposed to maybe somebody close to them, but not directly involved, like a parent or something like that. A friend, a good friend might pick up on stuff that the person involved wouldn't

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crime. It's also available at Walmart, Bed Bath, and Beyond and CVS. On Sunday, November 20th, Emma's parents followed her to work and then followed her back home to make sure she was safe. Sunday evening seemed normal. Emma texted a friend about homework and went to bed just after midnight. On Monday, November 21st at 6.15 a.m., Jill Walker went into Emma's bedroom to wake her up. Jill said her name and touched her leg and then looked at her face, checked for a pulse, but couldn't find anything. She told outlets, I don't remember a whole lot from that. I know I called 911.

So a parent's worst nightmare. Absolutely. And, you know, her saying I don't remember a lot. I think shock would set in very quickly for a lot of people in that situation. Knox County Sheriff's Deputy Nikki. Buell's responded to the house, the call came in as a possible suicide. So Deputy Buells took photos of the outside of the home.

When she went to photograph the bedroom, she saw what looked like a bullet hole in the wall. And I think that pretty quickly cast some doubt on the suicide theory. Sheriff's Lieutenant Alan Merritt came to the house and found a bullet hole on the exterior of the home that he told ABC was a. about shoulder high. It was just a small bullet hole, just you know about the size of a ballpoint ink pin. He found two shell casings outside the hole

and found another bullet hole on a different side of the house at the same height as the first hole. He told ABC to an investigator, that tells me that the two shots were more than likely fired by the same suspect. Because of the height? The height, the size of the hole, the two shell casings match. Yeah, I think you put all.

that together. It's pretty easy. Emma was killed by one gunshot wound to the head. Two bullets were fired into her bedroom from outside the home. One of the bullets hit her behind her left ear. And the second bullet went into her pillow. Police saw that the shell casings and bullet in Emma's pillow came from a nine millimeter handgun. Riley's grandfather, James Walker, noticed that his 9mm handgun was missing on November 18th, 2016. After he drove to Maryville College to swap vehicles with Riley and get the tires repaired, when he drove his vehicle back, he saw that the gun he usually kept under the driver's seat was gone. He was worried.

Riley took it because he had recently expressed suicidal thoughts. So there's a couple of things that jump out at me here. First is, and I think I've talked about, this before. You know, I had an incident years ago in the home that I still live in now. Yeah. Where a bullet was shot into my home, into the second story, through the, the bedroom where I sleep and it went into a, another room, like a study room. It was scary. I told you, I was sorry about that. Yeah. I assumed it was you. But no, seriously, we had the police come out,

you know, they did the dow rods and the string and all of that. And, And what they concluded was that it came from a distance away. And we have kind of some land on the other side of the housing development where I live. And they said that it belonged to like the township or something, whoever lived there. And even if they fired a gun, they couldn't do anything about it. I was livid. Wow. I was very upset about that.

Yeah. Rightfully so. I'm not saying somebody was shooting at my house. What I'm saying is I think somebody was very, very careless. and shot a gun into my house, but either way, they could have killed somebody. They could have.

And then I think the second thing, and I really don't want to put, you know, blame onto Riley's grandfather, but if you're going to swap vehicles with your grandson, man, you should really take that handgun

out from under the seat. Oh, is a gun owner at your responsibility. It is. And so I think, you know, we kind of be derelict and not pointing that out.

So police spoke with, Emma's friends and family. Riley's name came up repeatedly. It's kind of hard for it probably not to. When Emma's friends told the police about the strange events before her death, Lieutenant Merritt started to believe that there might have been an unknown suspect stalking Emma Walker. So it's kind of two conflicting things here, right? The name that's coming up over and over is Riley Gall. Right. But the police are kind of looking at it and saying, maybe it's an unknown stalker. Maybe it's somebody else. True. It could be. It could be. Riley posted several tweets and made a Facebook post about Emma. One tweet said, rest easy now, sweetheart. I love you forever and always. Riley's friends were

definitely worried about him. He had shared something concerning with his friend Alex McCarty the day after he was allegedly kidnapped. Alex told a. he ended up telling me that he was so fearful for his life that he had stolen his grandfather's gun and he showed it to me i was very worried he reassured me over and over again that he was the farthest thing from suicidal he was just so scared of these people who were out to get him who were out to get emma so to me this does one thing if it's true it puts the gun in the possession of riley gall it does the same caliber that killed Emma Walker. Now, you and I have talked about it many times. Nine millimeter is one of the most popular calibers. Right. So there are a lot of nine millimeter pistols out there. He's just

trying to say, look, I had it because I was fearful for my life and fearful for hers. That's why I had it. Because he's her protector. Yes. Noah Walton, another one of Riley's friends told the police that Riley once asked him how to remove fingerprints from a gun. He said he was asking for his roommate. Walton told him not to ask him something like that again. Riley said, I know, I know.

It was for my roommate. I thought it was weird. I mean, this is like a 1980s comedy sitcom trope. Right. I'm not asking for me. I'm asking for a friend. Right.

That was the old gag. Exactly. He's not asking for himself. He's asking for his. his roommate. One of Riley's friends told ABC that he said the only thing we can do is I'll just have to get rid of it. I have to get rid of that gun in order for me not to get pinned for something that I didn't do. In order for me not to go to jail for something I didn't do, I have to get rid of this weapon. And that's when the friend said that he knew that Riley did it. Both Alex McCarty and

Noah Walton said that they felt as though they had to stop Riley. from getting rid of the possible murder weapon. So they went to the police with their information. And it was on November 21st that police brought Riley in for questioning. They asked him about where he'd been for the past 72 hours. Riley said he spent Friday, November 18th, it his friend Noah Walton's house. But one thing that the police found extremely strange is that during the two hours,

our interrogation. Riley only ever called Emma the girl. He never used her name. It's strange. Very weird. He said things like the girl, she texted me. And they asked her, which girl? He would only say the one that passed away. You know, we always talk about, you know, the flashbulbs going off, the red alerts, the red flags. This is one of those. Something is not adding up. Detective James Hurst told ABC when I first met Gall, I thought he might have been a grieving boyfriend. When we got into the interview room and sat down, I felt like there was a dark side. He didn't have a whole lot of passion or concern. Riley said that he was trying to talk to him.

And she told him that if he helped her write a paper, she talked to him. He said that on Sunday night, he used a friend's phone to call her. Our phone call didn't go very well. That's what he said. She just told me a bunch of cruel stuff, and she blocked his friend's phone number. I mean, I don't know what else to say, Gibbs, but this is a girl who does not want to talk to this guy. Yeah. And to me, this is a guy who's not getting it.

He can't take a hint. It's more than a hint. Yes, correct. I don't like you anymore. Leave me alone. Leave me alone. I don't want to talk to you. That's not a cipher that you have to, you know, it's not a natural.

National Treasure type cipher that you've got to figure out. No, it's not. It's pretty direct. It's pretty to the point. The problem is he's not liking what he's hearing. That's what I get. He keeps trying. Hoping for a different.

Different outcome. Yeah. But it's not going to happen. The definition of insanity. Is trying the same thing over and over, hoping for a different result? Yeah. So after this phone call, Riley claimed that he went to his grandparents' house for a short time. then he drove back to campus.

Once he got to campus, he said he broke down and he cried for two or three hours in his car because of the breakup. But police noticed that, you know, in this interview, this interrogation, whatever you want to call it, he just didn't show much emotion. So here's a guy saying that he broke down in his car for two or three hours. Now he's talking to the police after his ex, this girl that he said he loved, is dead. and he's showing no emotion. You could see why they would find that very strange. As they should, because that's really bizarre.

According to Lieutenant Merritt, he said his interview was probably one of the most disconnected. It almost seemed rehearsed, deliberate. By the time of the interview, detectives knew from Riley's friend Alex McCarty that Riley showed him his grandfather's gun. They also knew that Riley's grandfather had reported the gun missing. So detectives asked Riley about the gun and he said he didn't know where it was. He denied showing the gun to Alex or asking Noah about removing fingerprints. Detectives asked to see his phone.

And at that point, Riley asked if he was a suspect to which one detective asked, should you be? That's a good question to ask. Pretty smart. Yes. But Riley denied having anything to do with Emma's death. After he left the sheriff's office, Alex received some text from Riley, asking him why he told the police about the gun. Riley continued texting his friends and said, he didn't lie, but he asked

them not to talk to the police anymore. But Noah and Alex began actively working with the police. On Tuesday, November 22nd, detectives wired both of them with microphones, a transmitter, and a video camera hidden in a key fob you can hide a video camera anywhere nowadays i've got one on me right now i'm sure you do yeah i'd hate to ask where it is because i don't want to know the answer no you're not going to get good video from it i can tell you that no not currently the way i'm sitting so basically what they were doing is kind of a sting operation and their main goal was to try to find the murder weapon according to lieutenant merit those two young men contacted us and asked if they could have had had help us get what they believed to be the murder weapon back.

Obviously, there's concern for their safety. We went over all that with them and they were still adamant, very adamant that they wanted to do this. They understood the dangers and the concerns, but they wanted to do it. Okay. You got to give it up for these two guys.

Sure. Brave. They're in their what? 19, 20 years old. Yeah. Understanding that they may be confronting or at least talking to an individual that killed someone and trying to get them to talk. There's obvious dangers in what they were doing.

Yeah, but they want to do the right thing. They do. And you have to commend them for that. So what happened was the two boys invited Riley over to Noah Walton's house to play a video game. They pointed the hidden camera at the couch where Riley was sitting. And they start talking, right? They got to get him to talk. That's the whole deal.

Riley denied killing Emma. He actually suggested Emma killed herself saying people that understood the situation said she killed herself because of me and her parents or she just killed herself because of her parents. One of the boys said, but she didn't kill herself. To which Riley responded, she did. And to me, this is so off the wall for him to be saying something like this. Obviously, this young girl did not kill herself. Right. Or else the gun that she used to kill herself would have been found next to her. And it wasn't. It's like he's living in a fantasy world at this point. Yeah. And then he started coaching his friends on what they should tell the police. He said they should tell them that they were on LSD. Just say you were drunk. You were high. Your mind was altered. Whatever statement you gave them wasn't a

straightforward answer. Noel Walton told ABC, I was like, okay, sure. bro, my bad. I didn't know I was going to get you in trouble. And sometimes it's hard for me to, you know, read these quotes as the young kids would say. Yeah, yeah. Because every other word is like. Right. That's just how young, young kids talk. Yeah, you can't do that. And it's hard for me to, to say it. But it's a quote. But when you think about it, what else are these two kids going to do? And they're going to stand up and confront him and call him a liar. No, it's probably not the best course of action right then and there. No, no way. You gotta wait. Riley suggested they go to the bluffs, a wooded area near the Tennessee River. He said he wanted to throw the gun into the water.

So they got into Alex's car and on their way stopped at Riley's stepfather's house. Riley said he hid the gun in the basement, but he didn't want them to go inside. He later came out with the trash bag and said the gun was inside. Alex and Noah both tried to convince him to show them the gun. but he wouldn't do it. So on the one hand, they're trying to get him to confess, to implicate himself, to show them the gun.

But at the same time, you know they're trying not to let this guy know that something's going on. Yeah, they can't give it away. No, they can't. So,

you know, they said they told jokes. They sang along with the radio. They stopped to get some food. What Riley didn't know was that the police were following them in undercover vehicles. At one point, the three boys parked at an apartment complex. According to Alex, Riley was putting on white gloves and waiting. He was very meticulous about how he got everything out. Then he just kept waiting and waiting. Noah Walton was communicating with the police

via group text. And he said that he told the police that they had the bag, but they hadn't seen the murder weapon yet. Riley also had a bag of black clobes. Riley also had a bag of black closed. He said that Riley would take the gun out soon, but they didn't know when. When Alex McCarty finally saw the gun, he said, oh my God, that is a real gun. That's when Noah said the code word. In less than 90 seconds later, the police swooped in and arrested Riley Gall. I mean, this is a real movie type sting operation. It just so happens that it's, you know, kind of being run, not run, but the participants are really young guys trying to help the police out.

So police arrest Riley. They found the gun, gloves, black clothing, tennis shoes, and black tape. And to them, this was clear indication that Riley Gall was the man in black who showed up at Emma's house the day before she was murdered. In January 2017, Riley was indicted on charges of first degree murder, especially aggravated stalking, theft, tampering with evidence, reckless endangerment, employing a firearm during a dangerous felony and felony murder. That is a boatload of very, very serious charges.

It really is. They got them on everything. Well, and I think we see this a lot, right? Trying to stack up as many as you can. Because you know, maybe some might not go your way when it's all said and done. True. Yeah, I mean, you really want to pat it the best way you can. and hope that some, if not all, stick.

And I'm not saying they weren't all real, because these are real charges, obviously. But I don't think there's any doubt. The goal is to tack on as many different ones that you can, that apply. Riley Gall went to trial in May 2018. His defense argued that Riley never meant to kill Emma. The Knoxville Sentinel reported that defense attorney Wesley Stone asked the jury to find Riley guilty of reckless homicide. Riley did fire the gun,

but it was to scare Emma so that he could then be a hero. There's people that do that. Well, and they even brought up that he, you know, had made some of these other outlandish attempts to get her attention, right? Sending the threatening texts, staging suicide attempts, staging his own kidnapping. His defense attorney Stone said, my client was her hero, as crazy and bizarre as it sounds. He was hoping to come to her rescue.

It is crazy. It is bizarre. It is. My thought is in his mind. Was he thinking, this is my shot? This is the way that I'm going to get her back. I'm going to show her that I'm her

protector. But to do that, I have to scare her. Right. And I think in his mind, he thought, oh, yeah, this makes sense. Yeah, I can do this. The rest of us are thinking, what is going on in your, in your head? The Washington Post reported that Riley's attorney also said, first degree murder requires an intent to kill. Some of us who are familiar with handguns may very well know that by shooting into a wall blindly, it will go through a wall. Some of us may not. Okay, what does he mean by that statement? For me, I'm taking it as maybe Riley didn't know that the bullet would go through the wall,

possibly striking her. That's a good point. He may not have known that. And I also think it's a really good point to try to kind of zero in on the first degree murder, right? the requirement of intent. Wesley Stone told ABC, he never intended to cause her harm,

never intended to cause her death, consistent with her reaching out to Riley regarding the event Saturday morning. He was attempting to get her to ask him for help again, sort of to be her protector. It's been in his heart. It's been in his mind. It's been in just everything about him.

Every day for the rest of his life. wherever that may be, he will have to live with that reality. According to Wesley, Riley Gall denied being the man in black who came to Emma's house. Now, the prosecution argued that Riley was obsessed with Emma and wouldn't accept it when she broke up with him. The two were texting and talking on the phone until the morning of her death. The Knoxville Sentinel reported that Kevin Allen, assistant district attorney general, said he was possessive, manipulative, controlling, he was toxic to her. This was no accident.

This is about criminal intent to kill. So obviously we can see the two sides here. Yeah, the prosecution is saying he intended to kill her and the defense is saying, no he wasn't because there was no intent. And therefore, there can be no first degree. Right. Right. If there is no intent.

Evidence from the crime scene suggested that Emma died instantly. according to Sheriff's Office Captain Brad Park, the second bullet hit a wooden stud in the wall, which altered its path. Alan Merritt said that the bullet holes in shell casings indicated that the shots were fired from about four to five feet away from the house directly at Emma's bedroom window. He said it was in a direct location and orientation to where Ms. Walker's head would be. anyone who had been in that bedroom would have known it. Scuff marks on the backyard fence indicated that the shooter jumped the fence.

Riley had also bragged in text messages to Emma about how easy it was to jump the fence. The Washington Post reported that Emma's family testified about her relationship with Riley. Jill Walker testified in the first couple months it was fine. It seemed normal. We kept a close eye. She was only 14 years old. at the time. She went on to say in the winter of 2015, Riley started going back to his ex-girlfriend. There was some things going on where he was playing them both. And some of this we've already talked about, right?

The fact that Emma's parents started monitoring her texts or Snapchats, they didn't like the way that Riley spoke to Emma. Yeah, he was abusive towards her. I think he was. There's no doubt about that. Joel Walker said in court, some of the language and the way she was spoken to. We didn't think it was appropriate to speak to anyone like that. We tried to discourage her from seeing him. We would set limits how and when they could see each other. And I think we gave a quote from Jill earlier on about, you know,

how do you kind of cut it off completely as a parent? Because you're going to start budding heads. And do you make your child just want to see that person more? because you're telling them they can't do it. What times you are. You're driving them towards the person you don't want them to be with. Yeah, I imagine this is a very tough position to be in as a parent.

Emma's parents said that they hoped that when Riley left for college, she'd stop seeing him, but she didn't. Emma's friends testified about the evening of November 18th, 2016. They said, Emma received multiple calls from an unknown number. She was scared and she was also sad. Emma went outside and saw a person standing at the end of her friend's driveway. This person was Riley Gall.

Riley initially denied being outside of Emma's house on the night of the shooting, firing the gun, or even having possession of the gun. But he did later admit to stealing his grandfather's gun. Emma's father, Mark, said he woke up on the morning of the 21st when he heard a noise, but he thought someone slammed a door. He walked through the house and peeked into it. Emma's room. It looked like she was sleeping. And this is the case, I'll be honest with you, Gibbs, it scares me. And I think because it hits so close to home, you know, every night, I only have one

daughter that's still left here at the house. Right. But every night before I go to bed, I open up her door, I look in, I check on her. Now, do I go over and, you know, put my face next to her mouth to make sure she's breathing? No. No, that would scare her when she would. It would. You would wake up with you doing that. I just look in. I see her. I think she's sleeping. Yeah.

I think she's okay. It's the same thing that Emma's father did. Sure. And I'm sure he left thinking, all is well. My daughter is fine. But she wasn't. A neighbor reported hearing two gunshots around 2.30 a.m. Cell phone data showed that Riley drove from Maryville to the Sturchy Hills area where Emma lived

and was in the area of. around 3.45 a.m. Riley said he spoke to Emma around midnight. She told him not to call her again. He said he spent a few hours crying in the parking lot outside his dorm and then went to bed around 4.45 a.m. Riley's roommate Walker Stanley testified that Riley said he'd been out when he returned to their room on the night of Emma's murder. Stanley also testified that he didn't really know Riley very well when they started rooming together, but he could tell that Riley just wasn't in a good place in his life. Those are the words that this kid, Stanley, used. Now, those words can mean a lot of different things.

They don't absolutely mean that you think someone's a killer. Just something's not going on right in their life. Right. Hours before the shooting, Riley asked his roommate if he knew how to remove fingerprints from a gun. And then after M.O was killed, Riley told him not to talk to police about her death. Okay. Those are two very suspicious things. I think the one about removing fingerprints from a gun is very damning.

It is. It really shouldn't be that difficult to figure out what to do with the gun. We've all seen the movies where they wipe down the gun with a rag. Yeah, I kind of thought that too. I thought it was a strange question to ask multiple people. number one, you're giving yourself away to a great extent. Number two, they do this in a ton of movies. Sure they do.

Now, does it work? I don't know. Not everything in movies is real. That's true. But doing that versus going around to multiple people asking them if they know how to remove fingerprints from a gun. Yeah. I mean, you're just again telling people that you might have done something.

Because if you didn't do anything, why would you need to know? know how to remove fingerprints from a gun. But Gibbs, isn't this what we see in a lot of cases with young people? Yeah. The other thing is, they had Google. Well, that's true. Well, when he just Googled how to wipe down our gun. Well, probably the one thing he did know was that they would get a hold of his search,

history maybe. Maybe, yeah. I don't know. But it just seems like when we do cases involving younger people, you know, 18, 19, 20 years old, they do things that seem to make no sense, maybe because they just don't have the ability to stop and think about what they're doing. Now, older people do that too.

We see it all the time. So I'm not saying it's just young people, but we do see it a lot with younger people. This kid is not a serial killer. No. He's not a stone cold hitman. No. He's a college student who has no idea.

of what he's doing. That's why, I mean, he's winging this whole thing. Right. He's obsessed with Emma. And he's trying to do things to win her back. Now, we can look at those things and say, man, you are going about this completely the wrong way. And especially when we get into this area of firing a gun into her house, well, then we're on to a completely different level. Riley's friends testified that he asked them to lie about his alibi and also about how to remove Prince from a gun. So we said that on November 21st, Riley got back to his dorm at about 4.45 a.m. went to bed. Stanley, his roommate, woke him up for class later that morning. Riley went to the bathroom. The Knoxville New Sentinel reported that when he came back, he said that his mother called. she told me that they had found Emma hurt. However, according to investigator David Wise, Riley acted like he didn't know anything when Wise went to the goal household that morning. Wise was there because Riley's grandpa was worried about Riley's reaction to Emma's death and also his missing gun. Wise testified at trial. I was under the assumption. He knew she had passed. When I said, sorry about Emma, he said, what do you mean? I said she's. I said, she's. He said, she's. He said, she's. He said, she's. He said,

gone. He said, where did she go? And to me, all of these details are important. But it's important to try to make sense of them. What do they actually mean? Did he really not know that she was dead, which would kind of bolster the argument that, okay, he fired into the house, but he was trying to scare her. He wasn't trying to hurt her. Right. He didn't have the intention to kill her. Or was he lying? Right. there's really only a couple of different ways to look at it. Right. And I think you can say the same thing about wiping down the fingerprints. Was it because he knew he was going to take this step of firing a gun into the house?

And he didn't want his fingerprints on it because he didn't want to get in trouble for that as opposed to not wanting to be IDed as a murderer. Depends what side of fence you're on. Well, it depends on. on what his intention was. Exactly. Right? Everything comes down to that. I think that's one of the more interesting aspects of this case.

The defense didn't call any witnesses. Wesley Stone introduced call logs and text messages between Riley and Emma. Stone said during closing arguments, this case is about state of mind. Riley did not mean to hurt her or cause her death. He was trying to get her attention. I'm not saying it's logical. I would hope you're not saying, it's logical. Yeah, that's... Because it doesn't make sense. No. Now, obviously it did in the mind of Riley

Gall. Well, of course. He thought this was the best course of action. If you believe that he was only trying to scare her, so he'd be the hero. So that he could be the hero. On May 8th, 2018, Riley Gall was convicted of first degree murder, stalking, felony murder, tampering with evidence, reckless endangerment, possessing a firearm during a dangerous felony in theft between $500 to $1,000. Well, that's a lot of things. It's a lot of things. We said they stacked up a bunch of things on him. I'm assuming the theft came from taking his grandfather's gun.

In Tennessee, first degree murder comes with an automatic life sentence. Riley Gull's sentencing hearing took place on September 14th, 2008. According to ABC, Riley apologized. Emma's family and said, I'm sorry I took Emma away from you that I robbed you of the experience of watching your daughter grow up. What I can do is tell the truth about that night. I wanted to scare her. I never meant to take Emma's life. Again, I am sorry. Riley was initially indicted for especially aggravated stalking, but a jury found him guilty of stalking, which is a lesser charge. Right. After they determined that Emma never saw.

Riley display the weapon because she was asleep. However, he was found guilty of using a firearm during the commission of a dangerous felony, which was associated with the especially aggravated stalking charge. Another hearing was scheduled to hear arguments about the discrepancy. So that's an interesting angle, right? This using a firearm during the commission of a dangerous felony is one that you see a lot of times tacked on in addition to first degree murder. Absolutely. On September 28, 2018, the judge determined that Riley would not serve extra time for the additional convictions.

According to the Knoxville New Sentinel, Judge Bob McGee said, what happened in this case was very unique to these two people. He killed one person, this young woman. His sentence is already a very long one. one. That is true. He is going to spend life in prison. So no reason to tack on anything past that. I, that seems like what the judge was saying. No need to serve extra time for these additional convictions is what he said. On June 1st, 2021, Riley Gall was denied a retrial due to lack of evidence. His attorney said he planned to appeal the judge's ruling. Riley's attorney filed a motion for acquittal or a

retrial in 2018. The judge retired in 2019. And then the pandemic delayed the appeal, something that we saw in our Patreon episode right this week. Riley's appeal asked for an acquittal based on insufficient evidence. If an acquittal wasn't granted, then he requested a retrial. So all right, that seems like a bit of a Hail Mary, an acquittal due to insufficient evidence. stretch. That's a big stretch. Even the retrial to me is a, is a stretch. Obviously, a jury heard the evidence and they found it to be sufficient to, you know, convict him. Riley Gall will be eligible for parole after serving 51 years in prison. This is where I wonder if it was beneficial for the judge to add those additional charges. Well, it would be beneficial in adding time if that's what you're saying. So instead of him being eligible in 51 years, maybe it would be eligible in 65 years.

Yeah, I just wonder. Now, I didn't hear the judge say it. I just wonder if the judge took a look at this case and said, for what happened, life in prison with parole after not until 51 years, that is punishment enough. I don't know that for sure. Yeah. You know, he's going to be in his 70s. He is. Before he comes up for parole. But he did take a young girl's life. That would never get to see what her future would be because of him.

So why should he get any type of life? I get that. I get that. I mean, you know, as we wrap this thing up, I think what you just brought up is exactly what people are going to be mulling over in their head as they hear this case.

Number one, did he mean to kill her? And even if he didn't, should he spend the rest of his life in prison? Because I think you can look at it a couple different ways. You can. I just think he was a selfish young man that didn't know how to let go of somebody and decided to try to take things in his own hands.

And it went terribly wrong. And he chose to take that gun to that house that day and use it. Right. But everything you're describing, when you just said it went terribly wrong, you were literally making an argument against first degree. murder because you're basically saying he didn't intend to kill her. Yeah, maybe I should put in front of that if things went terribly wrong versus his intention was to go over there and shoot and kill her.

But I think that's exactly what people are going to be arguing about. Yeah, that's the argument for sure. I think it is. Did he go over with the intent to scare her so that she would think, he's her protector and maybe that would bring her back to him. Or did he go over and intentionally shoot a gun towards her knowing where she slept, knowing, you know, the layout of that room? But couldn't you also make the case that if you wanted to scare her,

one shot was enough? Why too? Unless you intended to kill her. Yeah, I will say this. This is not as clear cut a case. I think in many people's eyes as most of the true crime all the times that we do. There's no doubt that he killed this girl. That's not in doubt.

I think what is in doubt to many people is the intent, which then, you know, kind of bleeds over into first degree. Or if it's not first degree, then you're looking more at manslaughter or some other degree of murder and that carries a much lesser sentence. He still has a long haul. 51 years in prison. It's going to be a tough go. Yeah.

And like we always say, we weren't in the jury room. We didn't get all the facts, right? We combed through the reporting. We put in here what we could find at the end of the day. Do you have to kind of go with the jury? Some people would say yes. Some people would say, no, they got it wrong. Yeah.

And I think this is a case more so than many that we do that will be argued about. We'll see the message is flying. We'll get voicemails with people giving their opinion. And I'm totally fine with that. I think the parents are happy he's where he's at. Oh, there's no doubt about that if you're the parent. And I think they realize that he probably won't get paroled right away. Most cases, they never do.

But if he does, 70 years old, you know, his life is really over. He'll never have one. No. Even if he gets out in his 70s, yeah, will he have a little bit of time on the outside? Yeah. But what's it going to be? Yeah. Not much.

That's it for our episode on William Riley Gall. It is. It's a little bit of a different case. And I know people are going to make arguments on both sides. I know that for sure. And I don't fault anyone for really seeing it how they see it. We've got some voicemails. You want to check those out?

Yes, Sarah. Hey, Mike and Gibby. This is Yvonne Sanxter for the Texas Panhandle. I've been Ben, Gene, listening to you for a while trying to get caught up. And I was on my way back home from Amarillo. And I was listening to the episode about Howard murdered his girlfriend and buried her at a barrel and they didn't find her for 30 years. At the end of the message, at the end of the show, you were talking, a young girl,

a message saying and she was being respectful to you and Mike and calling you Mr. Gibson and Mr. Ferguson and it made you feel old. I started laughing so hard in the pickup because Mike you were born the same year that I got married. If that made you feel old, you could imagine how it made me feel old. Anyway, I just enjoyed the heck out of you guys and keep your own time ticking. Bye-bye. That doesn't make me feel old at all.

No, not at all. It makes me feel like a young whippersnapper. Oh, Whippersnapper, eh? You know, some days I feel great when I get out. Yeah. And some days I do feel old. That's just how it goes.

I've been feeling old lately when by the way my knee's been hurting. Yeah. You know. I was thinking she said Panhandle. I remember that episode we did with that. Bernie. I knew you were going to go back to the guy explaining the different parts of Texas. Exactly.

And then he said, well, there's Austin. Yep. And there's always that. Hey y'all, my name's Savannah, and I'm from Tennessee. I was just calling to let you know that I am a new listener, but I have binged the crap out of your show. I work night shift, so I listen to you guys like eight hours a night, and I have an hour commute to work, so we're like 10 hours. I actually have a case suggestion for y'all. I lived in the area where Shannon Christian and Chris Newsom were murdered out of Knoxville, Tennessee,

and the amount of stuff and heinous things that happened to them, it's just a really crazy case. There was like five people involved. Everybody thought it was a carjacking, gone wrong, and it ended up being a really gruesome murder. and later on down the road, years down the road, found out that the judge who oversaw their case and sentenced them actually was on drugs during their trial. So a few of them got some retrials.

I think it's a really interesting case and I think y'all would really enjoy it even though it's awful and gruesome. But I also wanted to say that I am team Furby. I've seen both of y'all because you They're not the same without the other. Have a great day. Bye.

She's from Tennessee. She's going to love this episode and the patron-only episode. Yeah, because they're both from, you know, the Knoxville area as well. Yeah. So that is a good case. We actually did that case. Yeah, I'm thinking the same thing. Yeah, she probably just hasn't gotten to it yet.

I was trying to find the episode number, but I can't find it quickly. I know it's, it was years and years ago. Yeah, I think it was like two years ago. I think oh I found it it's the episode number is 83 so definitely check that up but it is a fascinating and kind of bad case at the same time yeah hi my name is Mishi I'm from winnipeg mademiteau by Canada just a little ways literally from the center of Canada um I listen to you guys all the time at night to help me sleep. And when I'm feeling a little bit overwhelmed,

the two of you guys have such a smooth vibe. It's wonderful. And I truly enjoy listening to you and falling asleep. So thanks again. I look forward to any new episodes I've listened to all of your podcasts over and over and I can't get enough. So thanks again. Bye.

Yeah, we try to keep our vibe smooth, our smooth vibe in. You can say it a bunch of different ways, but we really appreciate the voicemail in there down. All right, buddy, that is it. We had nothing in the mailbag. Nothing? Nope.

So that's it for another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike, and Gibby. Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.