True Crime with Kendall Rae - Stalking Obsession Turns Fatal After Govt. Fails To Protect Her: The Case of Celeste Manno

Episode Date: December 5, 2024

Please take action: Jaclyn Symes Email: [e-mail]   Subject: Urgent Implementation of VLRC Recommendations on Stalking Dear Attorney General Symes, I am writing to urge the immediate implementation of the recommendations outlined in the Victorian Law Reform Commission's report on stalking. The VLRC's comprehensive analysis highlights the critical need for stronger measures to protect victims and address this pervasive issue effectively. Timely action on these recommendations will not only improve legal responses to stalking but also ensure the safety and well-being of countless individuals across Victoria. Thank you for your attention. Sincerely, [Name] Podcast Episode: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast... Facebook Page:  / 1923302601461687   VLRC’s Stalking Report (Final): https://www.lawreform.vic.gov.au/publ... Petition: https://www.change.org/p/justice-for-... — Donations will be matched through 12/27/24: https://www.higherhope.org/donate Check out my foundation, Higher Hope: Higher Hope Foundation: https://www.higherhope.org/  Shop my Merch! https://kendallrae.shop This episode is sponsored by: SKIMS Storyworth Smalls - For 50% off your first order, head to Smalls.com/KENDALLRAE and use code KENDALLRAE. Rocket Money Check out Kendall's other podcasts: The Sesh & Mile Higher Follow Kendall! YouTube Twitter Instagram Facebook Mile Higher Zoo REQUESTS: General case suggestion form: https://bit.ly/32kwPly Form for people directly related/ close to the victim: https://bit.ly/3KqMZLj Discord: https://discord.com/invite/an4stY9BCN CONTACT: For Business Inquiries - [e-mail]

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So guys today I've got to just tell you this is one of those cases that just truly makes me want to scream because of the failures that took place and led to the murder of a young woman from Australia, Celeste Manow. Now, this case absolutely needs to be talked about more. I became aware of it after her mom has been really pushing for more awareness around those failures that led to her daughter's murder. These failures that led up to Celeste's murder

absolutely could have prevented this from happening. And there are also serious failures that have occurred after her death that could deter this from happening again. But action from the government just isn't being taken. Now I've covered a few Australian cases over the years here and then also on my other podcast, Mile Higher. So I had some idea of how murder was prosecuted in Australia.

But this case really opened my eyes even further about how much really needs to change and really just how broken justice systems are throughout most of the world. And that's why her family, especially her mom, is really leaning into trying to create that awareness and hopefully make some change. And they truly need as much support as possible. So I'm hoping that by sharing her story with you today, we can really show up for this family and do what we can to help them.

So let's start out the way that I always do, by telling you a little bit about who Celeste Mano was. She was born on November 22nd, 1996 to her parents, Aggie and Tony. And they say that from the moment she was born, she became the embodiment of light and love. From a young age she was very very playful, very loving and at four and a half years old she became a big sister to her brother Alessandro. She also had an older half brother Jaden and her family had

always been one of the most important parts of her life. And if you were someone who had the pleasure of knowing Celeste while she was alive, you were one of the lucky ones. Everything I've read about her, everything I have heard said about her in interviews really makes me believe that she was a very kind, very intelligent, very loving person in all aspects of her life. From a young age, she was someone who had already developed a really strong sense of kindness, of inclusivity. Like she was one of those kids who would take note when someone else felt left out in the

group and would make the extra effort to make them feel included. And it really was her dream in life to make a difference in the lives of others. And she was planning to do so by becoming a psychologist, which was actually one of her many career aspirations. She studied criminology and psychology at the Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology and she was really fueled by her dedication towards helping others. People who knew her describe her as someone who really had a zest for life and was capable of finding joy in even the little everyday moments.

And I don't think there's really any denying about how big of a loss this has been to her loved ones. And because of that, they are determined to help keep her light shining through it all. And it's really mind blowing that four years after Celeste was murdered, her family is still fighting for justice in a lot of ways. So let's talk about what happened and also talk about how preventable this actually was, which is why it just, ugh, I get so mad talking about cases like this because this could have been completely avoidable.

So going back to 2019, Celeste was 23 years old, just really starting out her life, and for the last two and a half years of her life, she had been working at a call center for the company Circo Group. Her mom, Aggie, says that Celeste got a job there to get some real world experience and before her death she was enrolling into her last honors year. And it was there at work that Celeste ended up meeting the man who would end up taking her life in such a brutal, horrific way and for literally no reason. And before we get into all of that, there are two things that I want to say. One being that in this case there has been a lot of

reporting that has been inaccurate and quite frankly damaging. And a lot of that has had to do with the fact that it has been made to look like Celeste had some type of relationship with her killer, or even that they were acquaintances, which they really were not at all. I'll explain why that is so inaccurate here in a second, but the second thing that I wanted to say is that for a long time, and I believe even still now, most of the time, her mother refers to her killer as a beast or the beast. And I completely understand why she does that. Obviously, I need to share with you his name, and she does use his name a bit as well now too.

But there's a reason why she went with the beast or beast. And the reason that she chose that term specifically is because he had actually referred to himself as a beast in one of the messages that he had sent Celeste and it was in a much different context, but it's been kind of a way for her to take that word back and use it against him. Like I said, for the sake of you guys understanding everything that happened and knowing who was responsible for this by name, I'm going to give you his name today. And I think Celeste's family would completely understand why. However, I am gonna take a page from her book and call him a beast quite a bit at the time.

And not just a beast, a monster, because that is what this guy truly is. He is a, I don't even know if I have words for him. He's just beyond evil and something is truly fucking wrong with this man. Now this utter piece of shit, sorry, excuse for a human being beast is named Louay Seiko. And in 2019, while Celeste was working at this call center,

he was working there as well. He got a job there in April of 2018, but in June of 2019, he was fired because of performance related issues and like I said earlier It's not even fair to refer to the beast as an acquaintance of Celeste He absolutely was not and it wasn't until that day that he was fired that she really had any interaction with him and it was because she was the team leader and when he was fired she was tasked with just walking him to the door of the building.

And you know, it's been actually reported in some places that she had walked him all the way to his car, which is definitely not the case. And because Celeste was a nice person, she did what any nice person would do in a situation like that. As he was, you know, being shooed out of the building she gave him a handshake she offered a handshake she said you know good luck something along those lines very very normal right and this fucking weirdo reaches out and gives her a kiss on the cheek and she was so you know confused why you would

do something like that it's obviously an extremely strange thing to do She even told her mom that she was embarrassed by that. It obviously made her uncomfortable But she thought okay weirdo How'd you go? Hopefully I never see you again and not knowing how dangerous this man was Aggie told Celeste that maybe she was being a bit dramatic and that he probably just had a crush on her that she never Knew about which obviously now in hindsight, she sees everything completely differently, but she thought in that moment, you know, that was weird,

but at least he's gone, you'll probably never see this person again, or at least that's what she thought. But then about a week after he was fired, Celeste received the first of what would end up being 140 Instagram DMs from this beast. And in those early months, the messages were primarily love letters,

saying how crazy in love he was with her, how he couldn't function without her, how he couldn't hold a job because of how much he loves her, which is obviously really disturbing, bizarre things to be sending someone who you literally do not know in any capacity. There was no relationship there whatsoever. But despite the fact that Celeste absolutely never showed any interest in him in return, never reciprocated any of his emotions, his feelings, whatever he was saying, there was

no interest in him coming from her in any way. He did not stop. And she actually told him a handful of times very politely that she wasn't interested in him, that she was uncomfortable with these messages and to please just leave her alone, but he wouldn't. And here's an example of one of her messages to him. Hi, Luay, those are really sweet words

and I appreciate you saying all of that to me. I'm a bit surprised to read this as this is all new to me. As much as I appreciate this, I only feel in a professional way towards you and I wish you all the best in your new job and journey." But when that didn't deter him and he continued to send her these creepy disturbing messages, she decides to block him like most people would do, right? And she thought that that would be enough for him to get the hint to leave her alone but it didn't. In fact every time she would block him he would just make a new account and continue to send her the same neurotic messages. Now unfortunately at this point in time and I don't know if they ever will be a lot of these messages aren't available

to the public and I completely see why but here is one of the messages that has been released so you can get an idea of how disturbing they really were. He says, I'm so infatuated with you and it's now becoming unhealthy. I know my words don't help me. I'm sorry for coming on so strong, Celeste. I'm just another rival for your affection. I am truly sorry for making you feel uncomfortable. I really just wanted to speak with you

and I honestly thought you were ignoring me. My impression of you has been changed. You are no different than the majority of women. I'll remember you in this lesson for all my life and I will devote every ounce of energy I have to climbing up and proving to the world that I'm somebody. That is my promise to you and my final contact with you. But as I'm sure you can guess, that was not his final contact with her. And I just have to point out again

that these messages are even more bizarre and creepy when you think about the fact that they had zero type of friendship, relationship, acquaintanceship, anything, anything. She literally just walked this dude to the door when he was fired. That's it. And he becomes this obsessed with her.

And of course, this kind of thing does happen to women. There are men like this out there. There are people who become stalkers. And it's not just men, of course. You know, a lot of you, I'm sure, have seen baby reindeer and have heard other stories of men being stalked by women as well. But it is statistically overwhelmingly men. Attention people, it is officially cozy season. Every year when it starts to get cold,

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And he's basically just doing this to a blank screen the majority of time, because that's how little Celeste was engaging with it. And a few times that she did respond, she was such a kind person that she tried to set these boundaries and get him to stop in a very polite way. And Aggie, her mother, on the other hand, was so pissed off by how he was acting towards her in these messages, as any mother would be. Aggie, Celeste, and Alessandro, her brother, were all living together at this time,

so she was very aware of everything that was going on with the situation, all of these messages, and she didn't think that being polite was the best way to deal with them. There were even times where she would message him in all caps, basically screaming at him to leave her daughter alone, and he wouldn't. He would not stop.

And in fact, the messages became more and more deranged over time. And from July to about December, from my understanding, they were just hoping that one day he would just give up and go away. That maybe her lack of responding and constant blocking of every account he would make would just make him stop.

But in December, it was clear that this guy, this beast was never going to stop. That month, his messages went from love letters and poetry to extremely sexually explicit and almost angry and desperate. And this new, quite frankly, scary shift in his tone was really starting to worry them. And especially Aggie. Aggie felt like this was a sign that things were escalating to a dangerous level and that

they need to get help involved. So Aggie convinces Celeste that they need to go and make a report on this guy. They need to get some other people involved here who can hopefully help. Hopefully being the key word here. But at first Celeste didn't want to do it quite frankly, and that's because she's just such a kind person. She was worried that if they escalated this further that he would potentially hurt himself. And that just tells you everything that you need to know about the type of person that she was.

That even for this person who she doesn't know who is being so inappropriate, who's beyond creepy, scary, she is still concerned that maybe reporting this will negatively affect him and she doesn't want anyone to feel pain or to hurt themselves. And of course, she knew how unstable he clearly was. So I can see where she was coming from with that. That's not to say that if you were in that situation, you should think like that. Protecting yourself is always the number one priority.

And when someone has crossed a line like that and you feel like you are in danger, it is always good to go and make that report. But here she was a victim of clear harassment. And she was worried about how reporting him would affect him. It makes me so sad thinking about what a kind soul she truly was to have thoughts like that. And of course she had no idea what this man was capable of truly. But the fact of the matter was he was crossing lines here. He was making her feel uncomfortable in a big way and it needed to stop. So about six months after it all started, she and her mom went to the police.

Which leads me to the first of many failures. And that's why I feel conflicted telling people, you know, if you're in this situation, go and report it. And I stand by that. I think you should. But I it's frustrating that many people who do try and report things or go get help don't end up getting that help. But the two of them end up going to the police. They went to the Miranda police station and they were told by an officer to just ignore him. That's right. That's all they had to say. Just ignore him. Which obviously that is what Celeste had already been doing. And she's taking it a step further than that. She's blocking him and he continues to make these accounts

and continues to message her anyway. And when they tried to explain that, they were told, well, that's really just the nature of social media. And if you don't like it, then you just shouldn't be on it. Yep, that's really what they told them. And it's ridiculous because that is not the nature of social media. Yep, that's really what they told them. And it's ridiculous because that is not the nature of social media. Yes, those things happen on social media, but that's not how it should be. That's not how it should be handled if it happens. And it should

not be accepted as the norm. And whoever that person was that told them that I really, really hope that they were reprimanded in some way or at least got some type of training for moving forward, but I couldn't find anything that said that and I honestly doubt that they were. And what's even crazier is that at no point during this interaction with the officer did they ever even write down Louay's name or do anything to show that they wanted to help. Celeste and Aggie were even told that since no crime was committed, nothing could be done. But a crime was committed. And I'm not talking about her murder.

I'm talking about harassment on social media. Online harassment is a crime in Australia, but clearly not a crime that the government cares enough about to protect people against it. And we haven't even yet really gotten into the true stalking element of all of this. And it turns out that this monster full on stalked Celeste. And because that officer refused to help her, refused to recognize the seriousness of the situation and the threat that Louay posed, the next six months were filled with more of the same. This beast would legit park outside of her work and wait for her and it got so bad that

her job had to implement a system where people would walk to her car with her. And here's law enforcement telling her that a crime hasn't been committed. Outrageous. By the time July of 2020 rolled around, enough was enough. Louay was clearly not going to stop and it was impacting every facet of Celeste's life and she was truly living in fear. There was one new positive thing in her life at this point and that was a new boyfriend, a wonderful man named Chris

who she had met through work and was really starting to build a great relationship with. They had actually been friends for a long time and she wasn't always sure if she wanted a relationship with him or not But not long before her murder they did begin dating and he was really good to her throughout all of this But there was no denying that the situation with the beast was beyond hard on her No matter how much support that she had from loved ones. It was clear that

Legal action needed to be taken so on July 1, her and her mom went back to the police station and laid it all out on the table. They explained everything, they pulled up the messages, they made sure that a proper report was filed, and thankfully, this time it was, and it even went a step further than that. On July 3rd, Celestine Aggie went to the Heidelberg Magistrates Court,

and they were granted an Interim Personal Safety Intervention Order, also known as a PSIO. And a PSIO seeks to protect a person from physical or mental harm caused by an individual who is not a family member. Now, when one of these are granted, the person who has served the order has rules or conditions that they need to follow

and a breach of these rules is a breach of the law. So Louay was served the order on July 8th and he was instructed that he could not have any contact with Celeste whatsoever. And at first this worked, at least for a little while, a, to be honest, very short while. From about July through mid-August, everything just appeared to stop. And during that time, Celestine and her mom sought out for the interim order to be made final. And after Louay refused to consent to the final orders, a hearing was scheduled for March 9th of 2021. And also during that time, he was interviewed at the

Craigie Byrne Police Station, where he admitted to sending the repeated messages from various social media accounts. But of course, he said that he wasn't at fault. And this is maddening and completely ridiculous, but he said that if his messages were causing her distress, that she could just stop reading them and that sending them was quote, therapeutic for him. He also said that because Celeste filed an intervention order, he was no longer interested in her. Basically alluding to the idea that he was over her and was not going to send her any further messages.

But this statement was bullshit because he definitely was still interested in her and was not going to stop. And on August 15th he breached the order and he sent her an Instagram DM that had a link to a Google Doc attached and it turns out it was a three and a half page letter and Celeste actually wasn't sure at first if the message was from him and she didn't want to open the link thinking it may contain a virus or something like that so after work that day she ended up just bringing her phone to the police station so that they could open it and that's when they realized that it was in fact from him, which meant that he breached the order.

And what's interesting about this letter is that when Celeste read it, she actually felt bad for him. And so did her mom. Now I don't actually have the full letter to read to you all, but to give you an idea, it was basically a plea to have her drop the intervention order, that it was ruining his life. And according to her mom, he actually used the word please in the letter 43 times. Please see reason, Celeste. Please. Celeste, the ball is in your court. Only you can end this now, Celeste. Please end this nonsense by withdrawing the

order and stopping the charges against me for stalking and harassment. And if you make the right choice Celeste, both of us can move on and we can finally have peace of mind. He also said that because of the order he's facing 10 years and that he's not gonna be able to look after his sick mother. Just a bunch of things to make it seem like she was ruining his life basically over some harmless DMs, which obviously they were not harmless at all. Celeste did absolutely nothing wrong by filing the intervention order. In fact, she did the right thing on all counts. But you know, she had this side of her that was truly caring for all people and she felt bad and

so did her mom. But at first when they read this letter, they both had this moment of did we do the wrong thing here? Aggie even ended up calling the officer that they reported him to and asked about, you know, what would dropping the order be like, you know, what options do they have? And when they did that, they said, if they dropped it, there's nothing that they could do to protect Celeste. And that was the moment Aggie said it really hit her. She knew her daughter needed that protection and she was not going to stand in the way of that.

Plus a lot of red flags became clear. She realized that more than anything else, this letter was a threat of what Louay would do if Celeste didn't drop it. So she didn't drop it, which was absolutely the right move, but it's also another instance of how Celeste was failed. Because even when this beast reached that order, they did nothing to protect her. That letter in itself was a breach of the order, and it proved that he was still an active threat towards her, and yet nothing was done about it. There were no legitimate consequences for him to face, and he was just able to go about his normal life.

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but she wasn't safe and because they did nothing to stop him on November 16th, 2020, her life was stolen from her in an unbelievably brutal way. And to describe what happened, I need to go back to just before her murder. As I mentioned earlier, Celeste had this new boyfriend named Chris. And aside from everything else that was going on in her life, everything with him was going very well and the two of them were really happy. And right before she was murdered, the two of them went out on a date and while they were on this date, they took a photo together. And if you're watching this episode, the photo is on the screen right now. And Celeste really liked this picture. She liked it so much that she wanted to share it

on social media. And on the night of November 15th, she did. But when she did that, she unknowingly and absolutely at no fault of her own triggered Louay. And just hours later, shortly after 3.50 a.m., he scaled the fence to her backyard and used a hammer to shatter her bedroom window. After that, he entered her bedroom and he proceeded to stab Celeste 23 times as she laid in bed asleep,

with the fatal blow being a stab wound to her heart. CCTV footage from a neighbor's house determined that from the time he left his car to the time he returned, he was gone for only two minutes and 39 seconds. That's how quickly this happened. And in those two minutes and 39 seconds, he managed to take away the life of a beautiful young woman whose life was only just beginning. And watching interview clips of her poor mother describing what this night was like is beyond devastating. It's just horrific for her to even have the strength to talk about what that night was like. It's just amazing to me. She was there the night that it happened. She heard it happen. She was sleeping and she heard the glass

shatter. She said it sounded incredibly loud and at first she was really confused. She thought maybe she was having a horrible nightmare. Obviously when you get woken up by a loud sound like that it's very disorienting. But when she heard Celeste gasp out, she knew that this was real. She ran right into her room, right over the broken glass. She's screaming, saying, Celeste, don't leave me. She did what every mother would do in that situation and tried her best to, you know, perform CPR, hoping that that would be enough to save her life. Obviously, in a situation like that, most of the time you're in sort of a haze,

like you can't fully comprehend what is happening. She was very confused. She didn't even realize that this was a murder at first. She was trying to make sense of the whole situation. But after first responders got there, they told her, stop, this is a crime scene. We just found a knife. And it was in that moment that she realized exactly what happened and exactly who did this. It was like something I just never heard. It was like a million pieces of glass just crashing. And all of a sudden I heard, oh. So I remember just going, Celeste. And I just ran out of bed and I'm just screaming her name down the hallway. I go, Celeste, and I just ran out of bed, and I'm just screaming her name down the hallway. I go, Celeste, sweetie, what happened?

And I realise that I'm running all over glass, I'm seeing blood, I still don't get it, and I'm pulling her out of the bed. She's not helping me at all. But I see all that glass, and so I thought I didn't want to drop her and all that. Outside, security footage shows Seiko fleeing in his car. As the paramedics arrive, inside,

Aggie is desperately fighting to save her daughter's life. Breathe, sweetie, please don't leave me, don't leave me. And then one of them stops me and he says, this is a crime scene, we found a knife. And in that moment, all I said was, what? Oh my God, he killed her! He said, you know who did this? I said, yes! Yes! And when I heard what happened next, I was actually quite surprised, and I think a lot of you will be too, since up until this point, this didn't seem like something Luay would

do, but rather than hide or wait for authorities to come and find him, he ended up just turning himself in. At 3.57 a.m., he just shows up at the Myrnda police station and asked an officer to shoot him and then proceeded to explain what he had done. Meanwhile, back at the house, the scene was being processed and officers not only found the knife that he had left behind, but they also found the hammer

that he had used to break the window. Plus, a little bit down the road, they ended up finding a phone that he clearly tried to ditch and there just really aren't words bit down the road, they ended up finding a phone that he clearly tried to ditch. And there just really aren't words to properly describe the pain that her family felt, both on that day and every day since. I actually listened to a podcast that her brother and her mom did, and it really just broke my heart.

It is so devastating to listen to their experience and the toll that this has taken on their lives just through the entire experience from the day that those messages started to today. I want to link that episode below if you would like to hear more directly from them. I definitely recommend giving it a listen and showing them that support. Aggie also talked about how a lot of the reporting on her daughter's case has been really frustrating and how they've left Alessandro completely out of the reporting at all. They've failed to mention how horrible it's been for him and how close the two of them actually were. Listening to him describe the ways that this has broken his mother and also himself is so, so devastating.

And one thing that he opened up about is How hard it's been for him to show emotion. I mean everyone deals with grief differently and He feels like he is just completely numb at this point he's only been able to cry a few times and He said that that's been really hard, especially when others around him are able to show that emotion more easily. And obviously, it's not because he doesn't have the emotion. It's just, yeah, it's that numbness that some people go through. He works in the wedding industry and he says that the times he has felt the most emotional is during the father daughter dances.

Just seeing that and knowing that his big sister won't have it, those are the moments where he finds himself really hurting the most. He also said that Celeste's death has completely changed their whole family dynamic. They don't go out to celebrate holidays or milestones like they used to. His mother is just completely a different human now, understandably, and really no one in their family has been the same since. Aggie mentioned that she feels guilt on a daily basis. She even feels guilty doing something as small as going out to dinner.

What's heart wrenching is how much Aggie actually blames herself for all of this. She has said that she feels responsible for not protecting her daughter. And there were times where she wished that she was killed that night too. And that pain I know I can't say anything to take it away and as a mother I

Understand exactly What she's saying like I would probably feel the same way and there's nothing that I can say To you Aggie if you ever listen to this episode or see this That will make you feel any better or change any of that emotion for you. But I hope someday you're able to realize that this was not your fault. This was not Celeste's fault. This was no one's fault. The only person who has any blame or fault in this is Louay, is the beast. Actually, I take that back. The only other people that have blame and fault in this is the government who completely failed your family and failed to protect your daughter.

And with that being said, let's get into all of that. Let's get into the aftermath of it all. Because if the circumstances weren't already horrible enough with everything leading up to her death, the legal response makes it all ten times worse. So even though the Beast literally confessed, he says it wasn't actually him or basically that he wasn't in his right mind when he did it. In police interviews and in psychiatric evaluations following his arrest, this sicko said that it was the voices in his head that told him to do it.

He said that it was the voice of a woman who he called Isha and that she told him to murder Celeste. And based on that, I'm sure it will come as no surprise to you that Louay tried to claim that he was mentally impaired at the time of the murder. And he has used that defense the last few years to try and minimize his responsibility and culpability. And he even tried to blame law enforcement for what he did, which, I mean, I blame them too,

but not in the way that he was. And his whole mental impairment defense has only caused Celeste's family to endure more pain than they already have, especially because of how much he has dragged things on. However, from the moment her daughter was murdered, Aggie promised her that she wouldn't stop until she got justice. And even with the years worth of roadblocks, she has never given up. I have so much respect for her as a mother and everything

that she has done, the fight that she has been able to fight under the pain and grief that she is going through at the same time. Celeste was laid to rest at the end of November, just after what would have been her 24th birthday, so, so young. And really, it's been an uphill battle for their family ever since. From the end of 2020 through 2023, there were countless hearings and psychiatric evaluations

to determine Louay's ability to stand trial, and if there would even be a trial and what the nature of his mental impairment truly is. And despite some initial conflicting opinions, it was ultimately determined that he was mentally fit to stand trial. So trial was scheduled for May of 2023 and a month before it began, he changed his plea from not guilty to guilty, and that meant he would no longer need to go to trial. Instead, there would just be a hearing in front of the judge to determine the length of his sentence,

but let me tell you, nothing about the lead up to this was straightforward either. In the summer of 2023, the hearing was delayed after he fired his attorney because he said he felt pressured to plead guilty, and that he said he wanted to revoke that plea. He also said that he wanted to represent himself in court, but ended up being convinced to keep his guilty plea and to get new representation. However, they still had to delay the hearing because his new attorney, Tim Marsh, said

that he needed more time to be briefed on the case. There were a few more delays after that, but ultimately his hearing was scheduled to begin on January 29th, 2024. And guess what this bozo did right before? Once again, he said that he wanted to represent himself. Louay said that he wanted to dispute the autopsy because, get this, he doesn't believe

he actually stabbed Celeste 23 times. He said that he only stabbed her two times and the other 21 injuries were caused by the broken glass, which may remind you he broke the glass. So even if that were true, which it's been proven that it's not, it still would have been his fault. And I don't want to get too far ahead of myself. I will be talking about that more later on, but let's get into what happened during this hearing.

So like I said, it started on January 29th, 2024, and it ended up going on for three days. And just as a reminder, they are not trying to prove whether or not he did it. It's been determined that he did. What they were arguing is how much time he should end up serving in prison. Now for the prosecution, they were seeking a sentence of life in prison. They believe that he not only meticulously planned Celeste's murder, but that he feels no remorse for what he's done and it's quite possible that he would do it again if given the opportunity.

Now as for the defense, they relied heavily on his mental impairment to remove as much culpability as possible seeking a much lighter sentence. And that's what I wanna get into next, Louay's mental impairment because that is a huge part of this case. Over the years, he'd undergone several evaluations where he was unable to convince psychiatrists that he was experiencing psychosis

when the murder occurred. And three different professionals said that it was their opinion that he was faking his symptoms during his assessments. However, he was determined to have a severe personality disorder as well as major depressive disorder and body dysmorphic disorder. And to be clear, the prosecution wasn't denying this. However, they were rejecting the idea that his diagnoses made him any less responsible for what he had done. If anything, they believe that he is more at risk of doing something like this again if he was given the chance. And that's exactly what one forensic psychiatrist testified to. Dr. Darje played a big role in a lot of this and he basically said that

yes, Louay was mentally impaired at the time of the murder and it did impact his judgment but that these conditions didn't force him to kill Celeste. He also came to the conclusion that his risk of reoffending was extremely high. In fact, he said that he felt it was a possibility that when he was in prison if any female guard was kind to him in any way, there's a good chance that he would continue this stalking behavior or do something harmful against her. And during this hearing there was a lot of back-and-forth about his risk to the public and his ability to be rehabilitated in prison because obviously if he can't be rehabilitated and he's deemed a risk to the public, he shouldn't be let out, right?

And the prosecution kept driving that point over and over again, that they do not feel this person is capable of getting better. And of course, they also made the point that this wasn't just some spur of the moment attack. For over a year, Louay harassed and stalked Celeste, and months before her murder, he began plotting her death. This beast literally admitted to the police that he used the internet to find her address and then looked up the floor plan of her house

to figure out which room was hers. And if those aren't the actions of a carefully thought out killer in a premeditated murder. I don't know what is. Not to mention the fact that he bought the knife that was used to kill her months before he actually did. And it's believed that the real trigger, the reason he did what he did when he did it, goes back to that photo that I showed you earlier.

The one of Celeste and her boyfriend the night that she posted online the night before she died. And I know I've already said this, but I want to make this point once again and make it so clear that it is not her fault that she posted this photo and it led to him finally losing it and taking her life. And I want to make that point so clear because her mom has been very vocal about how she feels the media that has covered the case has sort of put a lot of blame on Celeste for that photo that there's a lot of victim blaming going on and if you want to hear just how inhumane and nasty and in my opinion pure evil this man actually is listen to this during the hearing he decided he needed to cross examine the medical examiner because like I said before

He questioned the autopsy and the amount of stab wounds that Celeste actually received So this sicko starts asking about every single stab wound Asking for the details of every single stab wound while their family her loved ones are sitting there listening to it And at some point they decide this is too painful. This is so traumatizing We don't need to listen to this shit So they get up and they leave the courtroom and after they do just minutes after they do Someone comes out and told them that he's done. He no longer has any further questioning So it's very obvious that the only reason he was doing all of that was to make them sit there and

listen in agony to the agony that Celeste experienced at his hands. He just wanted to torture them and when they were no longer in the room to torture anymore, he gave up his cross-examination. And the hell that this family went through doesn't stop there. The only time during this process that they were able to confront him in any way to say what they wanted to say to the man who stole Celeste from them, they were given the opportunity to give victim impact statements. But, and they were shocked to hear this and they talk a lot about this in the podcast I mentioned that I'm going to link below, but they essentially told them that they really couldn't say anything they wanted to

say. They had written their statements back in December and then they had to submit them to make sure that they had followed the guidelines of what they could and could not say. And what was infuriating and shocking to me is they were given the statements back 30 minutes before they were allowed to read them, only to find out that about half of what they had written down had been crossed out and they were told they couldn't say it. Aggie said she had written 12 pages and six of those pages were blocked out and it wasn't just like six pages in a row. It was paragraphs at a time throughout.

So with only 30 minutes of time, everyone who had written victim impact statements had to piece their words together and try to make it make sense and also make the impact that they wanted. And then when Aggie did end up reading her statement, which was a fraction of what she wanted to say, Louay, being the little bitch that he is, couldn't even look her in the eye. And so she screamed at him and said, look at me. She also said, God, this part broke my heart. She said, I hate you. And the only person I hate more than you is me.

I couldn't protect her from you. Her brother, Alessandro, says that he didn't even want to read his statement at all because he couldn't say how he truly felt. But he did decide to read his statement. And when he did, he went off script and said things that he wasn't supposed to and the judge got really pissed. So not only did Celeste lose her voice, but they did too. And to add insult to injury, the judge's final ruling is appalling. In the end, Judge Jane Dixon sentenced Loey Saco to a mere 36 years in prison with a

parole eligibility in 30 years. Yes, you heard that right. 36 years with parole on the table 30 years from then. There aren't even words to describe how insane that is. It goes without saying, I think everyone out there will agree with me. If you don't, I don't know why you wouldn't. But I think we can all agree here that that sentence isn't remotely enough. It's offensive. It's dangerous. Not only is it dangerous to the public, to their family, and just a slap in the face really to Celeste and the whole family.

But it was a missed opportunity to set a precedent in cases like this moving forward. But for whatever reason, the decision was made to go easy on Celeste Killer. And I cannot wrap my head around this. I cannot understand why this was what the judge felt was best. And if it couldn't get any worse, it actually does, because they found out that if Louay had made the decision to go to trial, you know, roll the dice,

this judge said that she would have only given him 40 years, meaning she was never ever even considering a life sentence for him in the first place. In a statement given after all of this, Aggie said that it was unbelievable that the court showed him mercy even though he showed Celeste none. Celeste Mano's mother thought her wait for justice was over, but the sentence has already sparked another battle for an appeal. Today's outcome proves just how flawed the justice system is.

It failed Celeste then, and it failed her again now. Her daughter's killer, Louay Seiko, sentenced to 36 years behind bars. I consider that your offending does not warrant life imprisonment, although it does warrant a very stern sentence. Clearly, I'm devastated. We all are. Absolutely unbelievable that the court decided to grant him mercy even though he showed Celeste none. And this decision is just further proof of how flawed their justice system truly is. They allowed this dangerous man to continue to stalk Celeste

and then they did nothing when his intervention order was breached and that is a huge reason why Aggie, Alessandro and the rest of their family is calling for stronger protections and stricter laws against stalking and punishments for criminals who breach these orders. One thing that she is specifically calling for is the use of ankle bracelets, which you think would just be the standard. Apparently it's not. She believes that if her daughter's killer had been wearing an ankle bracelet, it would have given them notice when he approached their home. And if that

would have been the case, they could have gotten away and Celeste would still be here. And her efforts and strength in all of this has truly been incredible. And even led to a 200 plus page report that was conducted by the Victorian Law Reform Commission. The report addresses gaps in the legal system's response to stalking and puts forward 46 recommendations with the goal of improving protections and support for victims like Celeste. Some of these recommendations include improving legal aid and support mechanisms for victims, as well as dedicated training for law enforcement. It also recommends revising

personal safety prevention orders like the one that Celeste had to better prioritize cases outside of family violence. Obviously, I don't have time to go through them all. So of course I will link the report in the description of this episode or in the show notes if you are listening to the podcast version. And here's the thing, this report was fantastic. It brought up so many great recommendations

and how many of those recommendations do you think have been implemented? Zero, it is atrocious, it is disgusting. It is shameful that in the years since her murder, nothing, nothing, not one thing has been done to prevent this from happening to someone else. Aggie, Alessandro, Tony, and the rest of their family have marched the streets with thousands of fellow Australians begging for some kind of change and tougher laws on gender based violence. And they and so many others have been met with silence.

Meetings they were promised have been ignored. Phone calls have gone unanswered and enough is enough. Action needs to be taken and it needs to happen now. So in the description or show notes of this episode, I'm going to leave the email of the Attorney General of Victoria Her name is Jacqueline Simes And I ask that you take a couple minutes to email her and demand the immediate implementation of these recommendations I'll make it easy for you I'll have a written example that you're free to change up however you want or just write your own And that'll all be below.

And I'm sure a lot of you will ask because I know the majority of my audience is in the United States, but it doesn't matter where you live. We can all demand action and for Celeste's sake and the future safety of other people, we need to. And something else that Aggie is really pushing for is the mandatory sentence of life in prison for all murders. She believes that the only way to deter people from murdering is giving them the most severe sentence and anything less than that is simply not enough.

She believes that Celeste Killer will absolutely do it again if released. And I agree with her. I think there's a huge possibility that if and when, I mean, he's going to be let out, I think he will do something like this again. And that's terrifying. They tried to appeal his sentence, but the Office of Public Prosecution said that they wouldn't go to the Court of Appeals to challenge the 36-year sentence.

I guess they had just lost the appeal on a different case and they think that the outcome would probably be the same if they tried to appeal on this case. So they aren't even going to try. So yeah, I can see why Aggie is as outraged as she is, and I am right there with her. The system failed her daughter, it has failed so many people all over the world, so many different systems,

and it's continuing to fail her and others every single day. Now, like I said, I know I have a largely US based audience, but there is a petition on change.org that anyone can sign regardless of where you live and signing the justice for Celeste petition is a free and easy way that you can show this family your support. And I'm going to ask that you please take the time to sign it. It only takes a couple of seconds. There's also a Facebook page that I'm going to link in the description and if anyone in my audience lives in Victoria or anywhere near Australia, I want to encourage you to follow that page. But even if you are anywhere else, just the support that families can get in those numbers or even just sending a nice comment message, whatever it is, goes a long way. But there are a lot of posts on there about their rallies and events that they hold and if you are able to go to any of those, I highly encourage you to go out and support

this family. There have already been a number of rallies put on with the goal of raising awareness and getting the attention of the government. And right now they need as much support as they can get. In March of this year, friends, family and supporters marched through central Melbourne down to the Supreme Court in an effort to raise awareness and demand change. And I can tell you that this is a group who is not going to back down. And obviously this episode just really scratches the surface.

There is so much change that needs to happen to protect victims of stalking. And Aggie is really leading that fight in Australia. I was really moved by how much passion she has for change and how much commitment she has, how much strength after everything that she has been through to change the system to help other people. It truly takes people like Aggie to get things done and I'm just I'm so proud of her and I hope one day, I don't know if it's even possible and I would never expect this for you, but I hope for you that some way you're able to find peace and to know that this was not your fault in any way.

The fact that Luay could have been stopped and wasn't is just such a massive failure. There's honestly no words to put to it. Just how atrocious it really is. And 36 years in prison. What a fucking joke. This case has truly infuriated me and I hope you guys feel the same and I hope that leads you to taking some action. Whether that's following their page, signing that petition, sending that email, whatever you can do, please take the time to do it. And thank you to all of you who have listened to this episode, listened to Celeste's story, and I hope it enrages you as much as it enraged me.

That is going to be it for me today, guys. Thank you for joining me for another episode and make sure you follow the show on Spotify and Apple podcasts. It really does help me out. If you want to watch the video version of this show, you can find it on my YouTube channel, which will be linked, or you can just search Kendall Rae. I will be back with another episode soon, but until then, stay safe out there.