True Crime with Kendall Rae - “The Staircase”: Did Michael Peterson Kill Kathleen Hunt?

Episode Date: March 14, 2023

Late one night in 2001, Michael Peterson and his wife Kathleen were sitting outside chatting and drinking, when Kathleen went back inside the house. Michael allegedly went inside not long after, and came across her body laying in a bloody mess at the bottom of the staircase. Michael would continue to insist that his wife had fallen to her death through the length of what became one of the longest trials in North Carolina state history. Donate to NCMEC through my campaign! https://give.missingkids.org/campaign... Shop my charity merch! https://milehighermerch.com/  All profits from this charity merch will be donated to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children: https://www.missingkids.org/  This episode is sponsored by: Vessi - promo code: kendallrae PDS Debt Check out Kendall's other podcasts: The Sesh & Mile Higher Follow Kendall! YouTube Twitter Instagram Facebook Mile Higher Zoo REQUESTS: General case suggestion form: https://bit.ly/32kwPly Form for people directly related/ close to the victim: https://bit.ly/3KqMZLj Discord: https://discord.com/invite/an4stY9BCN CONTACT: For Business Inquiries - [e-mail]

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Today's case is one of the most interesting to me. It is also one of the most annoying to me, and I have many a feeling about it. This one is very controversial, so I'm sure there'll be some you know fighting in the comments and that's fine. You guys can express your opinions there of course. Today we are talking about a case that's widely known as the staircase and many of you have probably heard of it. It's a quite popular one. There was a big series called the staircase that came out on Netflix a few years back and my big

I mean very very long. It's like 11 or 12 parts. I have watched the whole thing even though it really annoys me how long this documentary is. It's absurdly long and doesn't need to be that long at all. I have a lot of feelings about The Staircase documentary but it is what got me interested in this case. And I think if you haven't heard of it, you will find it to be very interesting as well. So maybe you've browsed on Netflix, but you just don't have the 11 plus hours to commit to the staircase.

Then I'm going to try to break everything down more simply for you in this video. And before this video starts, I just wanted to give you guys a little reminder to subscribe to my channel, like this video if you enjoyed it. And isn't there another thing? I don't know. I'm supposed to be saying that as a YouTuber, that's what you're supposed to do,

and I never say that, so just reminding you. It really does help my channel though, so thank you to everyone who leaves comments, likes my videos, engages with them, shares them, it means a lot to me. So there are quite a few people in this case, there are quite a few names that I'll be bringing up throughout the video, but for the most part we're going to be talking about Michael and Kathleen Peterson. So let's start with Kathleen.

She was born Kathleen Hunt on February 21, 1953 in Greensboro, North Carolina. In growing up, Kathleen was very smart. She actually graduated at the top of her class of 473 students at J.P. McCaskey High School and Lancaster, Pennsylvania. And Kathleen was also the first woman accepted into the School of Engineering at Duke University, and that was a huge accomplishment for her. While she was at Duke, she earned her Bachelor of Science in civil engineering and a masters and mechanical engineering and then went on to work in high level executive positions at pharmaceutical and IT companies. Kathleen was well-liked, she was a big member of her community as well. She served on the board of the Durham Arts Council and received multiple awards for her leadership skills and was also a very generous philanthropist.

Kathleen married her first husband, Fred Atwater, in 1977 and they had one daughter named Caitlin. And after 10 years of marriage, things kind of fizzled and it wasn't working out for either of them so they decided to get a divorce. They got divorced in 1985. And Kathleen was perfectly fine being alone at first, but she did get introduced to someone fairly quickly,

another dad from her daughter's school, and his name was Michael Peterson. So let's talk about Michael, Michael Iber Peterson. He was born on October 23rd, 1943, near Nashville, Tennessee. He also went to Duke University, and graduated with a degree in political science. And then after that, he took some law school classes at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. After college, Michael actually worked as an analyst for the Department of Defense,

and he spent most of his time there researching justifications for the US military involvement in Vietnam. In 1965, Michael met his first wife, and her name was Patricia. A few years after meeting Patricia he ended up joining the Marine Corps and went over and served in Vietnam. But that didn't last long because he was discharged for an injury from a car accident. This injury was pretty bad and left him permanently disabled. So after this he and his wife moved to Germany and they really enjoyed living in West Germany. They had two sons Clayton and Todd and Patricia worked as a elementary school teacher at the military base. And while she was working there, she ended up meeting this other woman who she became best friends with. And her name was Elizabeth Ratliffe. Elizabeth had a husband

named George and they had two kids as well, so all of them would spend time together. There are two daughters were named Margaret and Martha, and they loved spending time with the Peterson's, and they all really got along. George was also a captain in the military, so he and Michael had plenty to talk about, and they really liked each other.

But then unfortunately, George passed away suddenly in 1983. He actually had a heart attack during the US invasion of the island nation of Grenada. It was really shocking to his family, to his daughters, and to the Peterson's really stepped up and tried to be there for them as much as possible. And Michael really stepped it up.

He was very close with Elizabeth and her daughters. He really tried to step in kind of as a father to them. They really tried to help them out as much as they can to grieve the loss of their dad, to move on with their new life, and just as Margaret and Martha were kind of getting used to life without their dad, their mother suddenly passes away in 1985. The medical examiner determined that Elizabeth died from an intercerebral hemorrhage. Secondary to Vaughn Willa Brands disease, which is a blood-clotation disorder that she did suffer from.

And it was just horrific for the girls. They had just lost both parents in the span of a few years. I mean, they were completely devastated. They didn't know what their future was gonna look like at this point. So, her body was brought back to the United States and buried in Bay City, Texas. And so, now the girls were orphans.

So, Michael Peterson actually became their legal guardian. Soon after that, Michael's marriage with Patricia started going bad and they ended up getting a divorce in 1986. And he ended up leaving without his sons. They stayed with Patricia in Germany, and he went back to United States to start any life with Margaret and Martha. He moved back to North Carolina,

and when he got there, he formally adopted both girls, and then both sons actually ended up joining him over in America. He worked as a columnist for the local Durham Harold son newspaper where he was known openly for criticizing the police department and going after the district attorney. He also spent time writing about his experience when he was in the military a lot. He wrote multiple military-related novels and that was always something that just intrigued him and stayed with him throughout his life.

And he did pretty well as a writer. Reportedly, I can't confirm this, but I guess he got a half a million dollar advance for one of those books, and he also had interest from a Hollywood production company to make a movie out of it, but it never happened. So then, in 1986, Margaret and Martha met a new friend at school named Caitlin Atwater. And they introduced Michael to Caitlin's mom Kathleen Atwater. And when Kathleen and Michael met, they hit it off instantly.

They had a lot in common and seemed to just really click. They started dating and not much longer after they had met, they asked the kids how they would feel about them all moving in together. And the girls were actually thrilled. This worked out pretty well for them. They're going to have their friend, Caitlin, get to move in with them, and they even remember calling it like a permanent sleepover. So in 1989, Kathleen and Caitlin moved in with Michael Martha and Margaret, and then they got married years later in 1996.

They raised their new Brady Bunch style family in a 9,000 square foot mansion in the Forest Hills neighborhood of Durham, North Carolina. It's very beautiful, very classic southern and it's big. And Michael and Kathleen were said to have had a fairy-tale romance. They were completely devoted to each other, totally in love and dedicated to their children. They had just seamlessly blended their lives and families together and it worked out perfectly for them.

Everyone really got along. They were both successful in their careers and involved in the community. They had a wide circle of friends and loved ones. They just seemed to truly have it all, you know. It's Jeep 4x4 season. Make your next adventure epic with Jeep Wrangler 4xE. Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xE and the 3-row Grand Cherokee L. Hurrie and now for great deals.

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Download the Croger app now to Save Big. Croger, fresh for everyone, must have a digital account to redeem offers. Restrictions may apply, see site for details. Save Big on your favorites with the Buy, Fiver more, Save a Dollar each sale. Simply buy Fiver more participating items and save a dollar each with your card. Croger, fresh for everyone. People who knew the Peterson's really liked them. Friends and family, neighbors, they got along with everyone. And like I said, they were very involved in their community.

People loved their girls. They loved their story of how the girls were adopted and they were this blended family. And they all got along so well. Michael was such a good dad. Michael was such a good dad. Kathleen was such a good mom. They have this beautiful life. They really had it all, but that all changed on December 9th, 2001. Around 2.40 a.m. Michael called 911 and said that he found Kathleen at the bottom of their back staircase. They had two staircases in their houses was kind of a backway. It was a very small staircase very confined.

We'll look at it more. But he said he just found her there and he had no idea what happened. So let's go ahead and play the night and one call. Calm down. Well, why would you market? 18, 10 feet of street, please. What's wrong? My wife's had an accident. She's still breathing. What are you working? 1810 Cedar Street, please. What's wrong? My wife's telling experts. She's still breathing.

What kind of accident? She's still breathing. She's still breathing, please. Can you see it conscious? What? She's conscious. No, she's not conscious. How many stairs did you call to him?

I mean, he's a bear. How many stairs? Calm down, sir. Calm down. No, down to 1520. I don't know. Please, get somebody here by the way. Michael's son Todd was over at a friend's house and Michael called him and he actually came back to the house before the ambulance even got there. And when the first responders did get there, they were shocked. It was an incredibly bloody scene for a fall down the stairs. Kathleen's body was found almost completely out of this staircase. Her upper body, her head was on the landing, but there was so much blood at this crime scene. I'm talking everywhere.

All over the walls of the staircase all the way down to where she was at the landing kind of pooled there. It really was everywhere. Of course, as soon as they got there, they rushed Kathleen to the hospital, but it was too late. Kathleen died from her injuries. She was only 48 years old. So right up the bat, this obviously seems incredibly strange for her to have died from her injuries. She was only 48 years old. So right up the bat, this obviously seems incredibly strange for her to have died from falling down the stairs. Of course, it happens, but normally with much

longer staircases. Her actual fall wasn't that far. And with the amount of blood, it seemed like there was just no way that could be generated from just falling down the stairs. a tremendous amount of blu on the walls behind her, o and on the bottom of her

did this happen. How did said that it was a perfectly normal day. Han Kathleen had watched a movie that night. They watched America's Sweet Hearts and then afterwards they relaxed by their pool with some drinks and they were just talking out there having a good time when Kathleen decided to go back into the house and Michael stayed out by the pool. So it's two in the morning. Michael's out by the pool alone and he's smoking his pipe and it is pretty late But it's not that weird people stiff late and smoking whatever and he heads in around 240 a.m And that's when he said he stumbled across Kathleen's body He said he immediately assumed that she had fallen down the stairs and called them one right away

Investigators did find a bottle of wine and two wine glasses at the scene So that bottle of wine and two wine glasses at the scene so that corroborates Michael's story that the two of them were drinking and relaxing and hanging out. But they just couldn't get past the sheer amount of blood that was at the scene. It was way more than you would expect from a fall down the stairs. And the more that police started gathering information from Michael about that night, the more they started to question his story. So they collected a bunch of evidence and they started building a case against Michael. And on December 20th 2001, they finally had enough evidence to charge Michael Peterson with Kathleen's murder. And this

was totally shocking to everyone who knew them. People just thought Michael was such a good guy and that they were such a good couple that they were so in love that there's no way he would harm her. His kids were absolutely shocked and they just didn't believe it was true. Michael was also shocked that he was arrested. He said he never thought anyone would think that he killed his wife. So first Michael was released on an $850,000 bond and he had to give up a lot of his possessions, his wallet, his car, even his passport. He wasn't allowed to travel anywhere,

he wasn't even allowed to leave the state. And after this, Michael spoke out publicly for the first time. Kathleen was my life. I whispered her name in my heart a thousand times. She is there, but I can't stop crying. I would never have done anything to hurt her. I am innocent of these charges, and we will prove it important.

So at that point, Michael had already been in prison for a month, and you can see in the clip it definitely took a toll on him. He seemed very disheveled, very upset, and the public was pretty torn on what to think. I mean, they hadn't heard a lot of the evidence yet, and we will start going over all of that. But just his demeanor and his plea and his reputation with the public made a lot of people think he really was innocent, and a lot of people believe that to this day. So Jerry's selection started in May of 2003, and the trial was set to begin in July. In the lead up to the trial, Michael's friends and family really stood up for him,

publicly stated their support for him and that they believed he was innocent. This included his adopted daughters, they really stood strong for their dad, and also his ex-wife Patricia, who was friends with Kathleen, and she just did not think there was any possible way Michael could have done this. She said that she knew Michael was innocent, that he would never hurt Kathleen, that he just wasn't violent like that. She said that he truly loved her, and that they would be together forever if she hadn't passed away.

Michael also repeatedly said that he was innocent, and said that he would never have wanted to end Kathleen's life. She was the best thing that he had and he continually talked about the great times that they had over the past 14 years together. So Michael was represented by a Charlotte attorney named David Rudolph. David decided that they would argue that Kathleen had mixed alcohol and the prescription drug volume, which made her very disoriented and dizzy.

And they said that she was actually trying to walk up the stairs, which was a shock to a lot of people, because if you die from a staircase fall, a lot of people are going to see them, you fell down and you fell far. But Kathleen actually fell going up, only a few steps up too. They said the staircase is dark, which it is. There's no windows,. There's no natural lighting and this was at night in the middle of the night The staircase is really narrow too Kind of closed in would make me a little claustrophobic almost and she had flip-flops on so they said it easily could have caused her to fall And they actually argued that she fell several times that after the first fall

She struggled to get up and then fell again. They said she may have even fallen more than that, trying to get up several times, falling again, slipping, and that she hit her head several times, which is what caused her death. Because falls can happen in a million different ways, with a million different variations. But what I can tell you is that our experts will say

that the injury is on Kathleen Peterson's body, not just the lacerations, but the bruises, all can be explained as consistent with this fall. The defense got a man named Henry Lee to assist in their case, and he's a blood spatter analysis and forensic expert. And after he looked at everything, he concluded that Kathleen's injuries were the result of a tragic accidental fall and that the volume of blood at the scene was irrelevant. He said that she was bleeding profusely from the injuries on her head and she was also coughing up blood at the same time. And this guy is very controversial. He has been involved in several high profile cases and has an interesting reputation.

And during court, he actually did something very strange. The dude brought out some ketchup and showed what it would be like if you had blood in your mouth and you were to cough. And he showed what that blood spatter would look like to explain all the blood on the wall. And a lot of people did not like that he did this, they thought it was pretty disrespectful, honestly, and not a real scientific method for court. The prosecution completely disagreed with this. And when you see Kathleen's injuries, it makes everything even more confusing. Because it turns out Kathleen had multiple head

lacerations, almost as if something or someone scratched her or she was hit with some type of object. But it was strange because there were no bruises on her arms or her legs. And Michael kept pushing the idea that Kathleen was drinking a lot that night. But when they did her blood alcohol test, it came back that she was not drunk.

She was actually at 0.07% blood alcohol level, so definitely not drunk, drinking, but not drunk. As most of you know, at that point you're actually legally still allowed to drive. It's not until you hit 0.08% that you cannot legally drive. The autopsy report showed that she had a total of seven deep lacerations on the top in back of her head, which were likely caused by repeated blows from a light-rigid object. She also had a fracture of the thyroid neck cartilage, which indicates an intense pressure on the neck, like possible strain utilization.

And another thing is when first responders first got there, most of the blood around Kathleen had completely dried, meaning she was probably there for quite a bit, which of course Michael said he was outsmoking the pipe by the pool. But the neurons in her brain showed that she was alive and unconscious for at least 90 minutes, if not up to two hours before she actually died, so she was just lying there for a while. And that data just completely conflicts with Michael's statement that he was out by the pull for only 40 minutes after she went inside. And the medical examiner, Deborah Raddish, actually ruled Kathleen's

death a homicide. And this was huge. At the end of the autopsy examination, taking into account the number of scalp lacerations, their locations, their orientation, together with the neck injury, the findings were unequivocal that this was not from a fall down the stairs. And the fact that she was found at the bottom of the stairs would indicate either that's just a coincidence

or she was there for a reason, perhaps to make somebody think that she had fallen down the stairs. So obviously her wounds are incredibly strange for a staircase fall. I feel like we can all agree to that. It probably wasn't just the staircase or had to be some other element to her death.

And the prosecution actually presented the idea that it could have been a blow poke from a fireplace. It turns out that the couple owned this custom, very nice blow poke. That's that next to their fireplace. And this is to kind of like, you know, stoke the wood. This was a gift from Kathleen's sister. It was something that was important to them. And oddly enough, it was missing from their home. But the defense argued that since there was no skull fracture found in the autopsy report that there was no way that she could have died from being

beaten to death. But the autopsy was just the beginning of the evidence that the prosecution planned to share during the trial. Now the prosecution, not the greatest, I'll just say that. But one of their primary goals was to establish that Michael was a liar in order to hurt his credibility with the jury. So the first thing that they brought up was that Michael had previously lied about his military accomplishments. Years earlier Michael had run for mayor. And while he was running, he would go around saying that he was awarded two purple hearts. One of them for being hit by Shrapnel from a land mine explosion in Vietnam,

hit a whole story about it. But it turns out he made all of that up. According to the military records, he had been awarded a silver star and a bronze medal with valor. But no purple hearts. And like we talked about earlier, his injury was caused from a car accident that was not at all related to serving in the military. So right there in court, they proved that he was willing to lie about something as big as that. And Michael even admitted in court that sometimes he lied because it made things easier.

It's easier. It was just easier sometimes to let the lie come out. This summer, go to the movies, projected on the side of a mountain. Discover a new favorite restaurant, your campsite. Find yourself when you lose your signal. Discover a new playlist, Mother Nature. Make your summer special at the Kia Summer Sales event with the dependable Kia SUV your powerful sedan. Kia, movement that inspires. Call 800-333-4K for details, always drive safely, of an N7523.

Whether you're doing a dance to your favorite artist in the office parking lot, or being guided into Warrior I in the break room before your shift. Whether you're running on your Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby. Or counting your breaths on the subway. You are inhaling and long exhale. Peloton is for all of us. Wherever we are, whenever we need it,

download the free Peloton app today. Peloton app available through free tier or paid subscriptions starting at $12.99 per month. Next, the prosecution needed to show that Michael had lied on the night of Kathleen's death. And the evidence that they brought up for this was that the wine glasses that were sitting out that Michael said they were using to drink earlier were never touched by Kathleen. There were no fingerprints from Kathleen on either wine glass. And they also brought in their own blood spatter analysis to counteract what Harvey Lee had said.

His name was Dwayne Deever. He's a blood spatter analysis with North Carolina's state bureau of investigation. And he said that the blood spatter on the walls and around the staircase were caused by someone lifting the murder weapon over and over while bludgeoning caffeine to death, not from her coughing up blood. In other words, something contacted the wall with blood on it, made smears in here, and then another impact occurred creating another stain which came across the top of that. The stains on these pants are consistent with impacts batter, with the result of a forceful impact,

and that the individual wearing these pants at the time of that impact was a plus prop submitting to the source of blood when it was impacted. So of course, they also have to show motive. They have to prove why Michael would want to kill his beautiful wife Kathleen We loved so much they had this great life. Why would he want to ruin all of that? If the prosecution is correct How do we go from soulmate and lover

To cold-blooded murder. How does that happen? So to start, they dropped a big bombshell in court. They had evidence that Michael was bisexual and that he was having an affair on Kathleen with another man. Investigators had discovered over 2,000 photos of men on his computer. And they also found a conversation between Michael and this 26-year-old male escort named Brent Walgomot,

and they actually brought him in to testify in court. What types of sources did you perform? Oh, well, that's pretty broad. Basically, it's a companionship for other males of legal age. And divided by sex activities? Sometimes it does. Okay, what types of sex activity so? Oh, just about anything under the sun. It turns out that the two of them had been talking

for at least four months before Kathleen's death. And from what we know, it was all online, but they had been planning to meet up in person soon. And it turns out that the night Kathleen died, she had gotten on Michael's computer just a few hours before. And this isn't something she normally did, but she had to prep for our conference call the next day

so she had asked Michael to use his computer. She asked him for his password and she got on there. And who knows what she saw. And not only that, Michael had actually printed out pages of conversations with this escort talking about where they planned to meet what sexual acts they planned to do, and he literally printed it and left it in his desk drawer where Kathleen could have easily found it that night. So they theorized that Kathleen had found all of that while she was on the computer that she

discovered that Michael was cheating on her. They presented the idea that maybe she came to him angry and they got in a fight over his affair. At some point, maybe this fight got violent and Michael beat Kathleen to death and then staged everything at the bottom of the staircase. Now, one of the district attorneys on the prosecution that really tried to emphasize and sensationalize his sexuality during the case was attorney Fredra Black. She seemed just determined to cause a huge scandal about his secret gay life. But Michael claimed that Kathleen was aware that he was bisexual and that she was okay with it.

But that doesn't mean that she was okay with him having an affair. The defense even argued though that why would he print out conversations and leave them in the desk or let her on his computer if he was hiding all of this stuff. So the next motive that they introduced was financial and this is where shit gets really dicey. It turns out that the two of them were in about 143 thousand dollars worth of debt and they were headed for big financial trouble. They were basically having to live month to month on credit cards. She was on the edge of losing her job. All those things combined from a financial perspective, we thought caused significant stress

in that home. Kathleen Salary at the time was $145,000 a year, but that year she deferred a lot of it and her company was laying off a lot of people. Michael, on the other hand, hadn't had a study income in years. His writing career really never took off like he wanted it to. And then they found out that their sons, Michael and Patricia's sons, were also in quite a bit of debt. They actually pulled out emails of Patricia and

Michael talking about their son's debt and in one of those emails, Michael said that he had to keep this a secret from his wife. And of course, it turns out that Kathleen had a huge life insurance policy. First of all, the amount available to Mr. Peterson upon, Ms. Peterson's death would have been what?

One million eight hundred and thirty four thousand one hundred and First of all, the amount available to Mr. Peterson upon, Ms. Peterson's death would have been what? 1,834,166 dollars. But of course, before he could get that payout, he had to make sure that Kathleen's death looked like an accident. And the prosecution argued that he actually got this idea years earlier when he was living in Germany with his first wife. And this is where shit gets wild. So just a reminder, Michael and his first wife, Patricia,

who he's friendly with now, they have two kids together, they used to live in Germany. And they had a friend named Elizabeth Radliffe, who died suddenly in 1985. And then Michael adopted her daughters when she passed away and they moved back to the States. And Elizabeth had a sister, her name was Margaret Blair. And when she heard how Michael's

second wife Kathleen died falling down the stairs, she had to contact authorities. It turns out that there were a lot of similarities between the way that Kathleen died and the way that Elizabeth died. So let's talk a little bit more about how Elizabeth actually died. According to her sister, Margaret, Elizabeth and her daughters had dinner at the Peterson house that night, and then they came home. Michael actually walked them home, and then he was seen by another neighbor

later that night running from their house. The next morning, they found Elizabeth dead at the bottom of her staircase, just like Kathleen, and she was actually found by the girls Nanny, whose name Barbara, just like Kathleen. And she was actually found by the girl's nanny, who's named Barbara. And get this, she also had lacerations to the back of her head that looked exactly like Kathleen's. In the weeks leading up to Elizabeth's death,

she had been suffering from pretty severe headaches. So the medical examiner just concluded that she had an intersea-broll hemorrhage and that caused her to collapse and fall down the stairs. Her death was investigated by the German police and also the US military police. And at the time, no one thought there was any way this was any type of homicide. They thought this was a natural cause's accidental death. And what's weird is in the police reports at the time, they did not note that there was a lot of blood

around her body, but Barbara, the nanny who found her, said there was blood everywhere. When I looked at the wall, the blood was up so high. How high was it? I'm almost six feet, and I was standing up with my hand, and the blood was over my hand. I couldn't figure out how did somebody get blood that high. Michael was coming and going and handling

all the military people. Michael said that she had a brain aneurysm. Michael Peters said that. Yes. And that she must have fallen down the stairs. They even brought in another witness who cleaned the crime scene. And she said it took her hours to clean all of the blood off of the stairs. They even brought in another witness who cleaned the crime scene and she said it

took her hours to clean all of the blood off of the staircase. And this is just kind of strange, but Kathleen and Elizabeth also look eerily similar to one another. So when this whole Elizabeth ratlet thing came out, everyone was shocked. A lot of people started changing their minds quickly, friends and family even, because it just didn't seem like he could have a connection to both of these strange staircase deaths. How often do you hear someone dying falling down the stairs in their home? This was a big turning point in the case. This is when a lot of people changed their minds. So prosecutors decided to exume Bratliffe's body. If you remember, she was buried in Texas, so

they were able to access her pretty easily. And she was examined by Deborah Raddish, the same medical examiner who had ruled caffeine's death, a homicide. David Rudolph really did not like that Deborah was performing the autopsy and requested that it be done by a Texas medical examiner instead. But this request was

denied. And when they got the updated autopsy report back, they concluded that Elizabeth's death was also a homicide. In my opinion, the cause of death of Mrs. Ratliffe was blunt trauma of the head. What is the manor of death in your opinion? Homicide. Of course, Michael was never charged with anything from Elizabeth's death.

But they definitely used this in court to show that Michael could have had a history here, that there might be a pattern here. It really seemed like Michael had possibly gotten away with murder once and then used it again as a blueprint for murdering Kathleen and getting away with it. The prosecution of course had plenty of theories about what happened, but they were still missing a key piece of evidence. The murder weapon. They needed to explain how this actually happened. Of course they had arti presented the idea that it could have been this blow poke in the house that Michael had used that was missing. And then it showed up. During court,

the defense actually brought the blow poke out. It turns out that Michael's son actually found the blow poke in their garage, which was strange because this was an area that was searched many times by police and they completely missed it unless it wasn't there. They did forensic testing on it and this thing was covered in spider webs. It's very controversial whether or not

that could have been placed there, but they did do forensic testing on it. And it showed that the blowpoke had been used in years, years before Kathleen had died. So it couldn't be used in court as the murder weapon. This was a big blow to the prosecution. Things were looking pretty shaky for them. And also the jury wasn't impressed with how they were acting. They had acted on professional and several times.

It became kind of a sport to them, to win, like cheering after certain testing was done. Just odd things like that. And after this blowpoke thing, it was looking shaky for the prosecution. No one knew what the jury would come back with. Windies is open till midnight or later, so you can give in to the craving and go Night Mode. Now all of your favorite menu items just got their bedtime extended. You can get what you want even later, like the Baconator with six strips of bacon, or the perfect fries and frosty duo.

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You are inhaling and long exhale. Peloton is for all of us, wherever we are, whenever we need it. Download the free Peloton app today. Peloton app available through free tier or paid to description starting at 12.99 per month. During the trial, the jury was actually brought out to the Peterson's house so that they could view the staircase, they could see the pool where they were hanging out before this all

happened, and they could get a better idea about the distance between the pool to the staircase. So this trial went on and on. It lasted three months and years leading up to this. So there is tons of footage that was in the staircase documentary. And some of it really should have been cut out because it's literally sometimes people just sitting down papers or breathing. They just really left in as much as they possibly could. They wanted this thing to be as long as possible and probably get the biggest deal they could from Netflix. But the trial itself lasted three months, which is a long time. This was the longest in North Carolina's history actually. And during their deliberation, they determined that

the blowpoke couldn't have been the murder weapon. And they also made the decision to not even consider the death of Elizabeth Ratliffe when discussing Michael's case. They said that it was irrelevant. But they finally reached a decision on October 10, 2003. Michael Peterson was found guilty of first degree murder. We the 12 members of the jury unanimously find a defendant to be guilty of first degree murder. Just a tenth day of October 2000. Michael was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. And parole was actually denied because the jury determined that this was a premeditated murder. And in this case, it didn't need to be weeks or days even of preparation. It could

have been even a few seconds to be considered premeditated in this case. Michael was devastated by the news and so were his daughters who really stood by his side at this time. And in court, he whispered to them, I love you and I'll be all right. Is anything you want to say before the court imposes judgment? I like to say. I like to say. You can do it. And from the beginning of the trial to the end of the trial, Michael lost a lot of his supporters, his personal supporters. Kathleen's daughter actually changed her mind about Michael after reading the autopsy report.

She just knew there was no way that her mother's injuries could have been caused by falling down the stairs. She and many of their friends and family were under the impression that the injuries just weren't that severe. But when they saw it, it was pretty hard to deny that Michael had to have been involved. And one of the experts in court actually showed that someone had likely tried to wipe up part of the blood. It looked like someone had started and then kind of gave up.

Michael was the only other person that was there. Kathleen's sister Candace also stopped supporting Michael after learning more about their marriage and his bisexuality. And after the trial, both of them really became a strange from the whole family. They really wanted nothing to do with Michael. But Michael still claimed that he was innocent and he

started the appeals process right away. In 2006, a court appointed attorney argued for Michael that he didn't get a fair trial. He pointed out many mistakes that were made by the judge. Some of the issues they have with the prosecution, but this was denied. The case was then brought to the North Carolina Supreme Court in 2007, and the Court upheld the 2006 decision to deny the appeal. But Michael was not going to give up, and in 2008 he hired new attorneys to file a motion for a new trial, questioning mostly the testimony of Dwayne Deever, who was the blood spatter analysis with the SBI who had came in and counteracted a lot with their blood spatter analysis had said.BI who had came in and counteracted a lot with their blood

spatter analysis had said. The motion was denied again in 2009, but this time it was picked up by the court that there was some questioning around Dever. They started questioning his lack of experience in the press and his tactics during the trial. So the attorney general actually opened an investigation into Deaver in 2010. He found that Deaver and other agents of the SBI repeatedly helped prosecutors get convictions by misrepresenting or suppressing evidence in over 34 cases over a 16 year period. So he was fired in 2011. So at this point, his old attorney, David Rudolph, stepped back in and

started trying to help Michael get a new bear trial. And he was so determined to help Michael, who he really believed was innocent, as far as we know, that he ended up working on his case pro bono. And this time when they brought it back to a judge, he ruled that because of Deaver, Michael did not get a fair trial. so he granted him a new trial. And they actually made the decision to release Michael on House arrest on December 16, 2011, and on a $300,000 bail. A lot of this is filmed in the staircase, which Michael had a heavy hand in the production of all of that. He's very close with the editor. I'll touch on that in a bit.

But this is when they really start to play up a lot of the emotion. A lot of the documentary is not focused on the details of the case. A lot of it is focused on the girls and how sad they're going to be when their dad leaves. And Michael talking about his pain from all of it, but he doesn't show too much emotion about Kathleen, which is strange to me. So the new trial was scheduled for May of 2017, but they never ended up making it to trial because Michael decided to accept an Alfred plea. An Alfred plea is kind of a weird thing. It's not very common, but if you're in a true crime, I'm sure you've heard of it at some point. And what it means is that you're accepting that there is enough evidence to convict you, but you're also maintaining your innocence at the same time. So you're kind of pleading guilty, but not. So in February of 2017, he pleaded guilty to voluntary manslaughter and was

sentenced to a maximum of 86 months in prison. But Michael had already served 89 months in prison, so he was released on time served. This was very, very controversial as you can imagine. Am I going to put my life and my freedom in the hands of the Durham police, the district attorney? of the Durham Police, the District Attorney, look what they did the first time. I have waited over eight years, 2,988 days, as a matter of fact, and I count it for an opportunity to have a retrial, so that I can vindicate myself and prove my innocence in a fair trial this time. It's quote-unfied that he has served his time and he is free to go. It has been the most difficult thing I've ever done.

Ever. The prosecution had hoped that this would still bring some sense of peace and justice to Kathleen's family, but it's not ideal for them. My old Peterson, the words Alfred played, three of us, Alfred Schrapper, he's not guilty. An innocent man does not plead guilty.

Mr. Peterson, pled guilty today. But as of today, Michael is a free man. So let's talk about the staircase documentary. So the director of the documentary is an Oscar winner. His name is Jean Xavier D. Listerate and he started filming the documentary about this case within weeks of Cathleen's death. So he spent a lot of time with Michael over the years and had hours and hours to edit down. So I do understand why it was 11 parts. I saw something it needed to be. I think they needed to make some more cuts in that shit. But that's just me. And at first

Michael did not want them to film in his house for some reason. But after three months, he decided that they could. Gene Xavier said that this documentary was supposed to be an unbiased look at this case. However, I think most people who watch it can agree that Michael really used it to his advantage, and it's very biased towards him. I personally think it's one of the most biased true crowded documentaries out there, and that's because Michael was pretty involved in it. Even the director admitted that Michael really used his storytelling skills, his intelligence, and his sense of humor to try to manipulate the narrative of the documentary throughout the whole thing. And one thing that you notice when watching it is Michael really avoids

the tough questions as much as he can. He will change the topic, kind of switch you in a different direction, and the questions never really get answered. After filming everything from Kathleen's death through the 16 years of court, he also filmed two extra episodes at the end with Michael kind of sharing his final thoughts. And he really does pull on people's heartstrings. I mean, Michael is very charming. He is a way of making you feel bad for him, making himself seem like the victim, and almost tries to make you just forget about all the other hard evidence against him. The series did incredibly well at Netflix. Millions of people have seen it and

millions of people have their own opinions and I know people are split on it. But the thing that really gets me is that the editor of the documentary had a relationship with Michael going on. While he was in prison, they were kind of dating. And after he left prison, he actually moved in with her. So there you go. Who knows how much of a hand Michael actually had in the final editing of the project, and how much he could have influenced people who were working on it. [♪ music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background That RRI co-op, we're here for all the outs. We want you to spend more time outside our doors in the...

Try it out, check out, think it out. RRI co-op, all out. Visit RRI.com. Whether you're doing a dance to your favorite artist in the office parking lot, or being guided into Warrior I in the break room before your shift, whether you're running on your Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby, or counting your breaths on the subway. Peloton is for all of us, wherever we are, whenever we need it.

Download the free Peloton app today. Peloton app available through free tier, or pay to description starting at 1299 per month. The following year Michael published a memoir about the case and how his life has been since his release from jail. He called the book behind the staircase. All profits go to charity and release the book public domain, meaning it's not copyrighted and anyone can use the content.

So let's wrap it up here by talking about the possible theories. And one of the theories that wasn't brought up yet, that is very interesting. We'll get to that in a sec. So in October of 2002, Katelyn, Kathleen's daughter, filed a wrongful death claim against Michael. Michael tried to file for bankruptcy in 2006 and Kathleen immediately filed an objection. But he ended up agreeing to settle for 25 million in February of 2007, but did not ever admit to murdering Kathleen. So even though the state medical examiner was trash and lied in court, the actual blood evidence is pretty strong against Michael. Like I said, Kathleen was lying face up with her upper body on the first few stairs,

her head leaning up against the landing at the bottom. The walls around her body are covered in blood and there's smears, almost as if someone had tried to clean it. And they also found out that there was a bloody shoe print on her sweat pants that matched Michael's shoes. But when paramedics arrived, he was barefoot and his socks and shoes were kind of laying over near her body. And a Lumenall test actually show that there were barefoot

prints walking around the house and around the backyard. This could mean that Michael left her there and was walking around doing things, trying to figure out how to lay out the crime scene best before he called. And there was also drops of blood found inside Michael's shorts, which there's also a lot of questions around Michael's attire that night because he was wearing a t-shirt and shorts and barefoot,

and it was 50 degrees out at the time. So as we know, the defense said that Kathleen slipped on the stairs and was disoriented, slipped again in her own blood, and then started coughing up blood, and that's what all the bloods better on the wall is from. They said she got up, fell over and over again, and that's how she got all the lacerations on her head. And I don't know about you guys, but that just really doesn't make any sense to me. Kathleen's flip flops were found next to her body, like they've slipped off while she was falling.

But the defense argued that there wasn't enough room in this staircase for Michael to really beat her to death, especially with a blow poke. But later on after trial, a neighbor actually came forward and said that they found a tire iron outside. So Michael has tried to argue that maybe an intruder came into the house, that maybe they beat her with the tire iron. But this is a very strange theory because nothing else was disturbed. Why would this person come in, murder her for no reason in the middle of the night, not take anything, not do anything else, and just leave?

The whole blow poke thing though has been a big point of contention. The defense has really tried to argue that it couldn't have possibly have been the murder weapon just because it was found downstairs, coming in spider webs, and maybe it was down there that whole time. But either way, when the defense found it,

they never gave it to the police to actually process it as evidence. They just all sun-wiped it out at court. So it wasn't really handled properly. So there's definitely no real proof that it wasn't the murder weapon. It could have been. Maybe it really was placed in the garage later on, because it was weird that the police had missed it the first weapon. It could have been. Maybe it really was placed in the garage later on,

because it was weird that the police had missed it the first time. But of course, police do miss things all the time. So the blow-poke thing is probably always going to remain a point of contention. Of course, many people have wondered why Michael didn't hear Kathleen screaming inside the house if she was falling. Like chances are she tried to make some noise and get help. But the defense actually recreated the scene and showed that Michael wouldn't have been able to hear her from outside. Now, Kathleen's daughter, Kaitlyn, did not participate

in the staircase documentary, but she has done some other interviews and she's talked about Michael's quick temper and said that he had multiple outbursts when she and her mom first moved in with his family. And this gives a little more credibility to the idea that Michael just snapped on Kathleen and decided to kill her. Or maybe she really did find out about his affair. They got an argument and he freaked out and killed her then. Now tons of experts and just people on YouTube who do body

language analysis videos and then also Dr. Phil have all pointed out that Michael's body language seems very strange at many different points. A lot of them have brought up that there are many red flags that he has been lying. In this clip Michael seems to slip up and say the last time he saw Kathleen alive was when she walked into the house, but he quickly corrects himself. And the last I saw her was when I was there and she was just walking here. That's it. That was the last I saw Kathleen alive.

No, she was alive when I found her, but barely. Also many people have brought up that in the 911 call, Michael never mentions the amount of blood at the scene. This is something people normally describe on 911 calls. He repeated over and over again that his wife was still breathing, but then wouldn't answer certain questions from the dispatcher. He seemed to make no effort to calm down or to try to help Kathleen and listen to what he needed to do. Of course, it's very hard to judge 911 calls as always. No one really

knows how they would act in that situation, but it's odd and worth noting. And another extremely weird thing is Michael's son, who was at the crime scene before the first responders even were never talked to police. He refused to give any interviews, which is very odd. Makes a lot of people think he may have been covering for his dad or just knows more about what happened. Of course, another theory is that an intruder did it,

but like I said, it seems very unlikely. But about six months before Kathleen's death, Michael did report a burglary. At first, he said it was his phone, but it turns out it was actually his son's phone, and they ended up figuring out who they thought took it anyway, so not really anything that could possibly connect. But Michael also claims that there was at least five auto break-ins around his area around the time of her death. A lot of what Michael and his defense use to this day is that they believe that since Michael was a columnist who went after the police

a lot that maybe someone targeted him and kind of set all of this up to make Michael look like a murderer. But I really don't think that holds much water, and most people just don't believe that at all. I mean, just seeing the evidence and the crime scene and knowing about Elizabeth Ratlif's death definitely isn't something anyone could have just whipped up. I mean, this is Michael's reality. He's been a liar, he's been connected to another staircase death, but it can't be completely ruled out because Kathleen's clothes were never tested for DNA that night. Incredibly frustrating, I'm not sure why, but we can't determine if there was any other

third party DNA there. Of course, another theory is that it was just an accent. Plain simple. The night that Kathleen died, though, Michael said that she had fallen at least down 15 or 20 stairs. He said that she'd been drinking, was wearing the flip-flops and that led to the fall. But it's really hard to believe, I'm sure most of you agree,

that she fell while walking up the stairs, which was only a couple steps. And then slipped again, got up, fell again. It doesn't even make sense for that to have caused the injuries on the back of her head. But the blowpoke actually does make a lot of sense because it's led enough that it wouldn't actually fracture her skull, but it could cause some serious damage and definitely knock someone unconscious. And the whole blowpoke thing is so fucking annoying because

it turns out that police actually did see the blowpoke. This came out way later. Not only did they see it in the garage, they took pictures of it. But then they left it there and never told anyone. So that's great. And then there's one of the wildest theories I've ever heard, but it's very, very interesting. It's debated all over the place. People will go on and on about this on Reddit, even to this day. People discuss this. And that is the owl theory. Yes, that's right. There is a theory that an owl was the one who murdered Kathleen. This theory was introduced by a neighbor, a lawyer named T. Lawrence Polard, who went by Larry. After he saw pictures of Kathleen's injuries, Larry thought that the head wounds kind of looked like talon marks. He consulted with

an expert on birds who told him that owls are known to dive bomb humans, specifically attacking the head. They came up with a theory that the talon marks could have been caused by a barred owl, which are really common in Durham. This is what they look like, very cute, but I guess they can be really mean. Larry believes that Kathleen was actually outside when she was attacked by the owl and she ran inside. And why she would have gone down the stairs to the kitchen instead of out to Michael to get help isn't really explained. According to Therese, Kathleen tried to run up the stairs to escape the owl. She slipped, fell, became unconscious, and died. Now here's where this gets really weird.

According to the Forensic report, Kathleen had a big clump of her own hair that she was grasping in her left hand. And it had been pulled from the root. And when they looked at the hair closer, they found microscopic owl feathers. And they also found a tiny sliver of wood in there as well. Which definitely makes you think about this ala theory. I mean, it's weird. How did those feathers get there? It's pretty odd. But how many ala deaths have you heard of? This evidence was re-examined in 2008, and they actually found two additional ala feathers. In 2008, Larry held a press conference in front of the Durham County Courthouse to bring awareness to his theory. The Deborah Raddish, the medical examiner, and the prosecutors in the case dismissed this

theory, claiming that it was highly unlikely a bird could cause this deep of wounds in Catholic scout. In 2018, David Rudolph, Michael's lawyer, launched a world tour at a lecture in Durham called Inside the Staircase. Lies, fake science, and the owl theory. The owl theory is something that, of course, the defense really considers, but it was brought to them too late to present it in court. By the time David Rudolph had really thought that the owl theory was plausible, he had already pushed the idea that Kathleen had fallen on her own, so you can really change it at that point. But the alatheerie is pretty interesting.

Even David Rudolph, now who believes the alatheerie for the most part, said that even he thinks the slip and fall theory doesn't really make a lot of sense. And a lot of people believe the alatheerie, I'm sure a lot of you do. And I would love to hear more about why you think that because it is interesting. The alathethers add a whole new element to it but again I haven't heard of many owl deaths and that owl got the hell out of there and left

no other evidence. I feel like there would be more evidence of an attack outside or something and of course when you really think about things and you think about Michael's connection to another staircase death that a witness saw him running from the scene and the fact that he was the last person with Elizabeth Ratlif before she died. It's very odd to think that that could have just happened twice. So the death of Kathleen Peterson is still a mystery

to the day. It is highly debated all the time. The speculation and interest around the case and the theories have only continued to grow since all this came out. Most people who believed that Michael killed Kathleen believed that his motive was because of money that they were drowning

and that was the only way he was gonna be able to save himself. But many people argue that Michael really loved Kathleen and there was just no way he was gonna be able to save himself. But many people argue that Michael really loved Kathleen and there was just no way he would do that. HBO Max has recently announced that there will be a dramaticized version of the case being released to their platform. So I'm interested to see what that'll be like. I'm not normally a fan of recreation and dramaticized shows, but sometimes they're good. And HBO normally does a good job. And the director of the staircase documentary, Gene Xavier, to this day says that after working

on it for so long, he has no idea if Michael is innocent or guilty. He said that at the end of the day, the court system really failed because both the prosecution and the defense did a pretty shitty job and really failed to prove their points either way. And I definitely agree with that.

I think a much better trial could have been done. And I think it's interesting that the director after spending so much time with Michael still is unsure. As far as we know, of course, I mean, he might have his own thoughts that he just doesn't share. But he has since met with Larry, the guy who presented the owl theory multiple times. He's also interviewed some people who have been attacked by owls.

So he's still looking for answers himself. And after learning more, he says that he believes that most likely it was an owl that killed Kathleen. So at the end of this, no one really knows. I'm not sure if we will ever know what actually caused Kathleen Peterson's death, but a lot of people really do believe in the owl theory.

A lot of people think it's ridiculous and extremely unlikely, but it's just kind of person to person. And it doesn't matter because he took an Alfred plea, he's out, he's done. This really is one of those cases where people are very mixed with what they think happened or they just fall

into the land of, I don't fucking know, this is way too confusing. So of course I want to know what you think and what theory makes the most sense to you and why I definitely don't discount the owl theory. I think it's very interesting. I wish I could know more about owls and about other possible owl deaths, but there's just really not enough at the end of the day to say that That was it and with all the other evidence and when he bring in Elizabeth Ratlif's death to me It just seems too obvious that Michael did this. I get very strange vibes from Michael personally The way that he acts about different things the way the documentary is so biased and the way that he acts about different things, the way that the documentary was so biased

and a little narcissistic. I think it's strange that he didn't tell people that he was so close to another staircase death. You'd think he'd be bringing that up all the time. Like, I can't believe this happened. I also knew this other woman who we were close to who died falling down the stairs too. Like, what are the chances?

But no one in his family knew about that. None of his friends. In my opinion, and I don't always give my opinion in these cases because I really want you guys to make a pair of mine. I don't want you to feel like you have to agree with me. But I think Michael Peterson is guilty. I think he's guilty.

Of course, I can't say that without a shout of doubt in my mind because there is room for those other theories. The alphary could have possibly been intruder extremely unlikely. That's probably what I believe the least. All I know is she didn't just fall down those stairs because she was drinking and slip over and over. That makes no sense to me at all.

I think Michael's history of lying, lying about getting purple hearts. That's a big lie, that's a balsy lie. And I think that says a lot about his character. Also, I do think that there is something to the idea that Kathleen got on his computer that night and that all that stuff was on the computer. We don't know if she actually knew about it and was cool that or not, but that seems unlikely to me as well. And I'm sure she was devastated to find out that he was having an affair, probably confronted him about it, maybe he freaked out. Maybe he thought she would tell people and he didn't want

people to know. I mean, there's so many possibilities. I feel so sorry for Kathleen's loved ones for the girls having to lose their mother and then another mother figure after that and losing their dad. There's just so much tragedy in their family, and I feel sorry for them having to go through it all. That is gonna be it for me today, guys. Thank you for joining me for another episode, and make sure you follow the show on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

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