True Crime with Kimbyr - Cut From The Womb: Evans Family Murder Part 3

Episode Date: September 23, 2024

In the gripping conclusion of this three-part series, Kim delves even deeper into the horrifying case of Debra Evans, a pregnant mother of three whose life was cruelly stolen just days before she was set to give birth. Debra was savagely attacked in her own home by people she knew, including her ex-boyfriend and his accomplices. In a shocking and unspeakable act, they forcibly removed her unborn child from her womb, leaving Debra and two of her children dead. Remarkably, the newborn and one of her children survived the ordeal. Kim uncovers the twisted motives behind this horrific crime and the devastating aftermath, giving a harrowing glimpse into one of the most unsettling cases of fetal abduction. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

So it's imperative that they find Annette and quickly. Elijah could be in danger, especially because Tina told investigators that when she saw the baby, he was bleeding from his navel. That night, around 8 o'clock, a judge signed a complaint against Jacqueline Williams, aka Annette, for aggravated kidnapping. The judge issued a warrant with a bond set at a whopping $1 million. But then about 30 minutes later,

investigators receive a call from a corporal from the DuPage County Jail, and he's stating that he just got an anonymous phone call from a woman asking if Vern Ward was in custody. And when she was told, no, she said the reason she was calling was because of the murder in Addison. She hung up without giving any more information. And then a second call came in.

This time it was about 30 minutes later around 8 p.m. The woman said a friend of Verns told her that he had been arrested for the murders in Addison. And then she hung up again without. identifying herself or providing any more context and that is very interesting. We know that Vern is at the jail but he had not yet been arrested. Investigators were still in the information gathering phase but of course he was a suspect. Then night Tina agreed to lead the detectives to Annette and Fidel's townhouse out in Schaumburg. It's around 1045 when they

arrive. They knock on the door and one of Annette's daughters the 11-year-old answered and she explained her mom and Fidel weren't home. home that she was babysitting the other children. And when they asked where her mother was, she said she went to Wheaton with the baby. According to Annette's daughter, she left about an hour before this and she doesn't know when she'll be back. While the investigators were prepared to wait, because this is the closest they'd gotten to finding Elijah, Maywood detectives actually stayed inside the town home, hoping to surprise Annette and Fidel upon their return. At the same time, Tina goes off with another team of detectives to locate this

friend of Annette's named Vicki at her apartment in Wheaton. They also think this may be where Annette and Fidel were at. But they also need to question Vicki about her version of events. So back at the townhouse, Fidel and Annette return at 1145 p.m. And when they walked up to the door, Annette was carrying a small newborn baby in an infant carrier. He was wearing baby pajamas, a white blanket with bears, an undershirt, white socks, a yellow baby blanket, and a disposable diaper. And officers noticed, Fidel was wearing Debbie's boyfriend James's Grambling Tiger starter jacket, the one that James reported missing from their apartment on the night of the murders. And the right cuff is stained with what looks like blood.

As soon as this couple passed a threshold to that front door, detectives moved in. They told both Annette and Fidel to stop where they were, hand over the baby. Annette hands the baby off to one of the detectives who then moved upstairs to get away from what was transpiring between the couple and law enforcement. Both Annette and Fidel were put in handcuffs and moved to separate parts of the home. Fidel sat at the bottom of the stairs and they moved Annette into the kitchen. The first question they had for Annette was whether the baby was hers to which she replied, yes, I just gave birth. And then she stated the baby's name was Fidel Kaffey Jr.

She told them she even had a birth certificate and she could show them where it was. Investigators saw the name on the birth certificate, Fidel Rishan Williams-Cathy. It said that he was born at Central Depage Hospital at 8 p.m. on November 16, 1995, weighing 5.3 pounds measuring 19 inches long and that he was born to Jacqueline, Annette Williams, and Fidel Kaffee. Well, that's interesting, isn't it? So investigators asked permission to take a look around, and Annette said they could. They did not currently have a search warrant, so they could not do a thorough search,

but they did a walk-through taking notes of areas of interest in items they wanted to either collect or examine. The baby was then transported to a nearby hospital to be evaluated, and both Annette and Fidel were taken into custody and brought to Addison Police Department to be interviewed. Meanwhile, a detective actually went to a judge. judge's house at two in the morning to see if he would grant them a search warrant for both the townhouse and that mercury sable. That is due diligence. And this judge did approve both. So they wasted no time at all. They had the sable toad and they began their search of the residence where Annette and

Fidel lived. Annette's children were taken to the station and a relative was contacted. Later Annette's mother Martha came to retrieve them. At 2.30 in the morning, Annette was being questioned. And of course, It seemed as though she had an explanation for everything. In summary, her first version is the one we kind of got from Tina and others. The baby was hers and Fidel's. She went into labor at Vickies, but here's something that Annette didn't know and that you're just finding out as well. Patrice had been interviewed again after finding out more information and realizing that she may have been one of Annette's targets. So she came clean.

And investigators already know what really happened and who was implicated. How they know is very disturbing. Before he was killed, Joshua told Patrice everything. And Patrice saw much more than she admitted during that initial talk with detectives. Wait until you hear what happened and what poor Joshua had to endure. It is pure evil. It starts out the same way I already told you with Annette knocking on Patrice. When she answered the door, Annette pointed towards the sable that was parked out front and told Patrice that Fidel was waiting in the car with their new baby.

That wasn't too much of a surprise to Patrice since Annette had been saying she was pregnant for months. She let Annette inside with the little boy that she had never seen before. You already know what Annette told Patrice. She lied about Debbie being in a drug deal gone wrong. So she agreed to watch Josh overnight and assumed Annette was going to the hospital to be with his mom. At 6 a.m., Josh woke up screaming. He said his mother was dead. And Patrice is trying to comfort him,

but he just wanted his mommy, who he still thought that he would somehow get to see, even though he said her eyes were closed, and so were his sisters and that they were both dead. When Patrice asked who did this to Josh's family, he said he saw Vern, who he knew very well as his mom's ex-boyfriend and his brother's daddy. He also mentioned,

also mentioned Annette and her boyfriend. He called him Adele or something like that, but he described him as Annette's boyfriend. And there was another man there, but he doesn't know his name, and he thinks it's boo-boo. Dwight was listening in on some of this. So some of this actually coming from what Dwight told investigators during his second interview. When asked why the burglars didn't get to him, Josh said that he was hiding. Well, once they left, he ran outside, and that's when he saw Annette. He ran up behind her and she took him with her

and that's how he got to Patrice's house. Little did Josh realize he was running into the arms of evil. He told Patrice that blood was everywhere on the walls and the floor of his apartment. He stated he was very scared and he was upset this poor little boy and the nightmare isn't even over.

At 7.30 that morning, Patrice was getting her older daughters ready for school. And Josh was still crying. They tried reading a book to him to comfort him. But once the girls left, Josh hysterically begged for her to lock the door. Patrice at this point thought he was exaggerating and she wasn't sure she believed his story. Well, Dwight made sure to tell investigators that Patrice is not very street smart. She's easily manipulated and she trusted her friend Annette. She never met this little boy. So she wasn't sure. Annette finally finally showed up and this time holding her newborn baby. Patrice let her in. And the first thing she said to

Dwight and Patrice was, look at my new baby boy. Don't he look like Vidal? And that's when Patrice was skeptical. So she confronted Annette with the story, Josh told her. Annette then looked at Josh and said, you don't know what the F you're talking about. Why you tell them that bullshit? You don't know what you're talking about. What's your problem? You talk too much. And Josh responded, no, I'm not lying. You know you were there. And Annette told him to shut up and then to take his medicine. To which he replied, what medicine? Annette told him that his mom left him medicine for him in the car. She then dragged him into Patrice's kitchen, at which point she tried to make him swallow something that looked like vizine. Once it was down Josh's throat, he immediately ran to the bathroom and started vomiting.

When she caught up to him, she tried to get him to drink iodine. This woman is disgusting. She's so evil and so vile. How could anyone do this to an innocent child? Well, Patrice, who's a mother, she couldn't believe which she was witnessing, but she's scared. She has no idea what Annette is capable of. She even agrees to go back to her place where she said she was going to give Patrice a gift and then stop at Walmart.

Patrice wanted to make sure Josh was going to be. be okay. So she went along. Meanwhile, that's when Dwight saw the news of the double homicide and fetal abduction. And he's sitting there thinking, this sounds a lot like the story that that little boy said happened. But then he sees pictures of the entire family. He said he saw a mother, a daughter, Josh, the little boy that stayed in his apartment and a small black baby in the picture who police said was safe in their custody. So he was putting it all together. Annette brought Patrice, her newborn little girl and the new baby and Josh, back to her in Fidel's townhouse, where Patrice said she encountered another black male that she was not familiar with.

Fidel called out to Annette, and the two of them were talking in the laundry room, yelling, actually. Then Annette called for Josh and Patrice. Annette was saying at this point that she had to get rid of Josh because he knew too much. He had to go. Patrice was like, you can't do that. And Annette replied that she was on probation. It was between her going to jail or him and he loses. At some point, they were joined by Fidel and he was adamant they needed to get rid of Josh.

Annette said, quote, you don't understand Patrice. I'll go to jail. That boy knows too much, end quote. Patrice asked them to let her take him with her. He just wanted his mother and that they can't do this to him. Fidel explained that he told Annette to just drop Josh off in the projects, but she didn't listen because she thought he was going to get hurt. Well, he would have been better off.

Annette told Josh to sit on the bed, which he did. He appeared to be scared, but he did exactly what he was told to do. Annette at this point appeared enraged, scared, and confused, and walked out of the room past Patrice. She went up the stairs to the kitchen area and returned. turned with a knife. Patrice described the knife as having a brown handle approximately a foot long with rust on the blade. As she entered the room, Annette was holding this knife behind her back. Unreal. Patrice asked Annette, what are you doing? And she repeated that the boy knew too much, that he knew their names. Poor Josh was sitting on the bed with his back to Annette.

Fidel told Patrice that she was going to be killed to if she opened her mouth. Patrice pleaded with them not to kill the boy. And for a minute, she thought they weren't going to do it after all. But then Annette picked up a white cord that was laying on the floor. Annette looked over at Josh and said, I'm going to choke you. You talk too much. Little Josh was so scared. Then Annette told Josh to put his neck up to the cord

while she was holding it out in front of her. He didn't want to, but he did as she asked. And I cannot believe that evil humans like this even exist. It made me so sick. Then Annette put the cord around his neck more than once. Fidel grabbed one side and Annette pulled the other and they began choking him. Patrice was yelling and screaming for them to please leave him alone. She said they will not talk, they'll never say anything.

They won't tell anyone. But Fidel told her to shut up. And now Patrice was really scared for her life and her newborn baby. She started to scream really loud. really loud. Josh's face was turning blue at this point, and again, Patrice demanded them to let him go. At this point, they did stop pulling on the cord. But Annette turned to Patrice and once again said, you don't understand. We have to get rid of him. At that point, Fidel told Annette they had to take Patrice home and get her out of here. Patrice thought that they were going to let Josh go with her,

so she reassured him that everything was going to be okay, that they were going to be. That they were going to go back to her house. But that's not what Annette and Fidel had in mind. Annette put her new baby in the car seat located in the passenger side back seat. Patrice got into the front seat of the passenger side with her baby on her lap. She turned around and she looked over her shoulder and she saw Fidel opening the rear driver side door. At this point Annette, Fidel, and Josh were by the open door. She doesn't know who, but someone was holding Josh's arms by his side. and then she saw Fidel holding a knife. She said it was the same knife

Annette got from the kitchen earlier. Josh was then put into the rear driver's side back seat at approximately the same time that she saw Fidel moved the knife in a stabbing motion towards Josh. Patrice screamed and she saw Josh's head drop forward onto his chest. After Fidel stabbed Josh, she could see him put the knife in court into a green garbage bag that already contained. some garbage. The items were left in that garage. Patrice didn't think Josh was dead

though because she could hear him crying and gurgling. She wanted to check on him, but Fidel would not let her. Fidel said they had to take him somewhere and drop him off. Fidel got in the back seat between Josh and the baby's car seat and they drove into Maywood. They stopped in an alleyway and both Annette and Fidel got out and they supported Josh on both sides as he walked through a gate and out of sight. We know he was found dead in that alley. Fidel and Annette got back in the car. Annette dropped Fidel off somewhere and then took Patrice back home. On that drive, she recalled that Fidel threw a bloody bed sheet out the window that had been on the back seat where Josh had been sitting. When Patrice arrived back home,

Dwight was there and she did not tell him what happened. But as soon as she got, in the door, Dwight was yelling that the boy's story was true and that he just saw him on the news. Patrice was in a panic because Annette was still there. She was out at the car getting her baby. And then she was walking up in that moment and she could hear what Dwight was saying. She didn't make a comment. Instead, she asked him if he had anything to clean up vomit from her car. But we know it wasn't vomit. it was blood and probably other bodily fluids all over the backseat and the floor where Josh had been sitting. Patrice went to the closet, took out some scrub brushes and Ajax, and gave them to Annette, who left their building and went back out to her car.

When they were alone again, Dwight started to talk to Patrice, and they were both afraid of what they were involved in. At first, since Patrice had not seen the news, she wasn't sure that she could believe Dwight, or what Josh had said, until the midday news came on in that moment, showing Joshua's picture and indicating that his family had been killed in their Addison apartment, at which point Patrice became hysterical. They were both afraid that Annette and the people who did this were going to try to pin the crime on them or worse. After all, Josh had been at their house.

His hair, his DNA, even his vomit was present. And that is when Dwight left to call 911. Josh may have been alive the last time Patrice saw him, but he definitely wasn't. By the time she showed police where she saw Annette and Fidel drop him off. I wanted to tell you what his autopsy report stated, his cause of death and the extent of his injuries. Dr. Lawrence Joseph Kogan conducted the examination. First, it was obvious from the ligature marks on the neck

that he had been strangled and that something was wrapped more than one time around the neck. There were also several stab wounds to Josh's chest. his neck and left lung, likely caused by a butcher knife. Dr. Coggan found that Josh's left lung collapsed from the stab wounds while he was still alive. He had an aspirated right lung, which showed that he had inhaled his own vomit after ingesting iodine. Josh had no defensive wounds, which meant he would have been restrained when he was stabbed. Dr. Cogan concluded that Josh would not have died instantaneously from his injuries, that he would have lived for more than 30 minutes.

This little boy suffered, which is so extremely sad. In Dr. Kogan's opinion, Josh died from multiple injuries, strangulation, stab wounds, and the aspiration of his stomach contents. Telling Debbie's family that yet another one of their loved ones has been killed was not easy to hear. Sam could not believe that he was going to have to get three caskets for the funeral. It was truly heartbreaking. But hearing that the baby that they believed to be,

to be Elijah was safe and was at the hospital was the best news they could have gotten. Sam almost thought he was going to have to purchase four caskets, and he didn't know if he could handle any more bad news. But still, no one had officially been arrested yet. At this point, they have three of the people that Josh mentioned were present when his mother and sister had been killed, Annette, Fidel, and Vern. I do want to give you an update on the newborn baby, who was most definitely Elijah. He was found to weigh a healthy, these six pounds and eight ounces. His umbilical cord appeared to have been cut closely to his stomach, and a slight infection had started to form. Otherwise, he was in good physical condition, thankfully.

The outcome could have been a lot different. They were now waiting for DNA analysis to come back so they could find out who Elijah's parents really were, especially when it came to his father. Back at Annette in Fidel's townhouse, a complete search was being conducted. The first thing I want to point out is that this house was full of baby stuff. It was exactly what you would expect to see at the home of a newly expectant parents, from strollers, baby carriers, cribs and bottles everywhere.

We know from Annette's sister, Tina, that they threw a baby shower for a net not too long ago. So a lot of these items were most likely gifted to her in anticipation of a new baby that they thought she would have. Debbie's house wasn't full of so much new stuff for a newborn, but that's probably because she had a 22-month-old baby Jordan. She probably had a bunch of hammy, down's already ready to go. But let me tell you the significant things that were found during the search.

In the garage, investigators located a trash bag with a vizine bottle and a white cable with blood on it. In the dishwasher, which had already been run, investigators found a rusty, wooden handle 13-inch butcher knife. There were also two birth certificates found, and it was obvious that both of them were fake. In the primary bedroom closet, investigators located a baby lotion bottle with a blood stain on it. They also found a bunch of new baby items like formula, disposable bottles, a baby starter set, and wipes with diapers. And they all looked that they had just been purchased since there was evidence of receipts and plastic bags nearby. Investigators also found a sheet and a pillowcase in that townhouse,

which matched the bed sheet that was stained with blood, found just seven blocks from where Joshua's body was recovered in Maywood. Now on to the vehicle. I actually have an evidence photo of this, but on the carpet of the backseat floor, Fidel and Annette's car had what appeared to be blood stains that had been treated with a cleaner of some kind. Swabs were taken of everything that appeared to have blood on it

and sent to the lab. The evidence that had been collected previously from Debbie's apartment was also sent off for testing. They'd have to wait to hear about the DNA results. Back with Annette in the interview room, investigators stopped her before she could get deep into her version of events. They explained, we already spoke to Patrice and Dwight. We know the truth.

We know that you, Fidel, and Vern are involved in this now triple homicide. Annette immediately told detectives that it was her boyfriend Fidel that murdered Josh. Then she went into gory detail of the entire. situation, blaming it all on Fidel, saying he told her to grab the knife. He told her they needed to kill Josh. He told her to drive and he was the one who stabbed Josh. But she fails to mention the cord around his neck and she lied about where the knife was. She said Fidel threw it out a car window. Of course, she would say that someone else did all of this. And that even applied to what happened to Debbie as well. In Annette's version, she said that she drew

with Fern and Fidel over to Debbie's apartment, but she had no clue why they were going there. She waited in the parking lot, and when they came back, Fidel was carrying a baby. And that's all she was told. Her man had his own version of events. All these people did. They were all liars.

When they interviewed Fidel, he claimed he had nothing to do with anything. First, he was wearing that jacket. Remember the one that I talked about? And he said it was given to him by a friend. And Vicky, they asked Fidel to explain what appeared to be a blood stain on one of the sleeves, and he said, I don't know where it came from. Then they asked him how he and Annette came into possession of the newborn baby. And he had an answer for that, too.

He said he was home all night on the 16th. He was actually watching Annette's three kids. Then he said at approximately 2.30 a.m. on Friday, Vicky rang the doorbell of the townhouse. He went to the door and Vicki told him to come outside. He immediately comes out and is handed a baby. And Vicki says, surprise, Fidel Jr. He, the baby Annette and Vicki all go inside the house. Fidel tells investigators that Annette told him she went into labor

while she was walking down the stairs at Vicki's apartment. But Fidel admits that he didn't think Annette was big enough to be pregnant this whole time, even though she insisted she was. Plus, her due date kept changing. Fidel was confused. So he asked Annette, did you have any labor pains or anything? And she said, no, it just happened so fast. So the detectives asked Fidel if he wanted Annette to be pregnant.

And he said yes. He said he wanted a baby boy who resembled him. And he was hoping Annette was telling him the truth. When asked about Josh and Samantha, the investigators showed Fidel pictures, and he stated he had never seen them in his entire life, and he'd never been to Debbie's house. He even acted like he hadn't seen the Mercury Sable

until the evening of the 17th, which would have been after Joshua's killed. Pretty convenient. Well, investigators also talked to Vicki. I was so curious to know what her version of events would be. Vicki stated that Annette's baby was not born in her house, that she did not give Annette any Tylenol, or a shot to knock her out.

Vicki said that Annette actually called her collect on the night of the 16th between 11.15 p.m. at midnight to say that she had a baby at the Cook County Hospital at 8 p.m. Annette told Vicki that she had to drop off her nephew. We know this is Josh, but that then she was gonna come to Vicki's to show her the new baby. Vicki said that approximately one hour later, Annette showed up with the baby.

And Vicki noticed that the baby's belly button was bleak. So she gave Annette some gauze and tape to treat it. Vicki was then asked if she gave Fidel that jacket. And she said, actually, Annette gave Vicki the jacket and told her to present it to Fidel the next day and tell him it was a new father's present. This woman is so evil. Vicki says she was home all night and that her phone records would show that.

She admitted she did give a... give Annette some advice on how to create a fake birth certificate. And she even gave her laminate pages for that birth certificate. Annette told Vicki the reason she needed a birth certificate was because she didn't have one because she went into the hospital under a false name because of welfare reasons. I know this is a lot, but following that interview with Vicki, Annette was re-interviewed. Annette was then confronted with all of the inconsistencies, at which point, She changed her story, and she admitted that she knew Vern and Fidel were going to Debbie's apartment that night in Addison and that there was going to be some type of trouble. She claimed that Fendell told her to meet him there around 10 p.m. on the 16th.

Annette did, and she said she brought Vicky with her. And they waited in the parking lot while Fidel and Vern were at Debbie's. Annette said Fidel comes running out of Debbie's apartment, holding a baby. He gave the baby to Annette and said Debbie got shot and went into labor. Next, Annette said she saw Vern running out of the building. And then later, Josh came running out too. Annette said that she, Fidel, Byrne, Josh, Vicky, all left the area in the sable. And while in the car, Josh told Annette that Fidel and Vern were robbers.

Annette asked Fidel, what is going on? And he said, Debbie got shot. This woman was still acting like she didn't just pretend she was pregnant for months to pull off this entire scheme, but she wasn't fooling anyone. I want to warn any expected mothers to please be careful. You may not think this could happen to you, but pregnant women are targets. I know that it's so easy to share everything online. It's an exciting time. You're having a new baby, but please beware and protect your information,

especially when it comes to strangers. People with these evil schemes in mind will come up in in random places and pretend they're just interested in you and when you're due, or how far along you are. I can't tell you how many times I remember somebody doing that to me when I was pregnant with my daughter. I know it seems like they're just being kind, but you can never be too careful, and you don't have to share. Also, please be careful who you meet up with when you're pregnant. There are cases where women have pretended to sell baby clothes and used items, just to get close to pregnant women and target them.

Have your partner go or a friend, if you really need to buy something off of, let's say, Facebook Marketplace or somewhere similar. Just be careful how much information you share and sadly who you get close to. So back to Annette. She told her story and it didn't make any sense. They already confirmed the child was not hers.

It turns out the DNA test proved The baby was Deborah's and Verns. So it was Verns, not James's. I was actually very surprised. But Annette began to cry. That's when she said, I'm so sorry that any of this happened. And then she said she was finally ready to tell the truth. She wrote a seven-page confession, and still, this was not the whole truth.

For the past two days, investigators had interviewed a number of people. I think I read at least 10 different interviews, and they poked all kinds of holes in all of the stories of these three suspects. Even family members weren't able to account for certain timeframes that each of these people swore to. Vern's roommate actually recanted portions of his story, and he said that he'd been lying about being with Vern the whole evening of November 16th. He said he had not seen him after 10 p.m. that night. There were also family members that saw Vern, Fidel, and Annette around 10 p.m. that night, and they picked Vern up at his aunt's house with a third person that is yet to be identified. Fidel was then confronted with all his inconsistencies, and he was told that Annette confessed.

After he was allowed to read her entire confession, he was again asked about his involvement in the murders, and he said, what can I say? And went on to claim that he was with Annette's children the night of the 16th, so he could, couldn't have been involved. Police didn't believe Fidel, and he was taken into a cell until they got enough information for an official arrest. Meanwhile, Vern was also approached by investigators, and they told him they could not corroborate his wearabouts on November 16th. And they even played audio recordings from statements from witnesses. But he just called all of them liars. Verne continued to deny any involvement and kept saying he didn't kill anyone. Police asked

If it was possible that maybe he had just been present for the murders, but not directly involved. But Vern continued to deny any and all involvement, even when they encouraged him that this might be the best opportunity to share any information he may have. The police then left the room and compiled multiple inconsistencies against Vern before returning and giving him one last time to share his side of the story. But again, he denied involvement. Verne and Fidel were later transported to jail. And on the way there, these men mentioned that they were going to get off on these charges just like OJ. Yeah, they were quite balsy. They're going to check out how about it. They're framing us. Fidel, Annette, and Vern were jointly

charged with first-degree murder of Debbie, Samantha, and Josh, and the aggravated kidnapping of Josh and Elijah. They faced the death penalty and would ultimately be tried separately. The The investigation was still going on. They wanted to make sure they had ample evidence so they could get justice for this family. Police spoke to Debbie's boyfriend James again. He stated that during the last few weeks before the murders, Vern called Debbie's apartment a number of times, and James overheard Debbie arguing with him over whether the baby she was pregnant with was him or James's.

James further said that one week before the murders, Annette came to the apartment unexpectedly. When James opened the door, Annette told him that she was supposed to meet with Debbie. Well, James told her that Debbie was not home, and at this time, he knew nothing about Debbie meeting with Annette that day. Annette said, well, Debbie knows about it. And then she started to ask James things like when he went to work, when he got off work. And James thought these were very unusual questions, but he answered them anyway. He stated that he worked from about 6 p.m. to 2.30 in the morning. James later spoke with Debbie about this encounter, and she told him she knew nothing about meeting Annette

and that the whole situation did not sound right. Debbie then told James that just the day before, Annette had been asking Josh and Samantha questions when they were outside on their way to school. But James said that he did not know what these questions were about. Police asked James about how the murderers could have gotten inside the apartment, and he explained that because Debbie was nine months pregnant, it was really hard for her to get around, so she would often let the kids leave a rock inside the apartment complex main door

so they could come in and out of the building without having to get buzzed in. Wasn't a good idea. The other thing is, Vern knew that a rock was kept in this door, and that Debbie didn't make the kids lock the apartment doors until she got ready for bed. James said that since he found Debbie still fully dressed, It was very probable that rock had still been in the front door,

and the doors to their apartment were probably unlocked when the perpetrators entered. Finally, the DNA results were back in, and the bloody fingerprint on the piece of paper addressed to Debbie on her hutch belonged to Annette. The blood on the bathroom vanity was Elijah's, and the blood on the poultry shares belonged to Samantha. Notably, investigators did not find any fingerprints or DNA belonging to Fidel or Verne in Debbie's apartment. That white cable with blood on it, it was Josh's. The blood in the back seat of Fidel and Annette's car was also Josh's. The blood on the baby lotion bottle found in the townhouse was both Josh's and Elijah's. And investigators learned that Fidel and Nett purchased a bunch of baby items at a few stores between 1 a.m. and 2 a.m. This was sometime

after Debbie was killed. Josh's blood was also on that bed sheet that they found blocks away from where his body was found in the alley. An empty iodine bottle was found in the garbage at Patrice's house, and we know that Annette used this on Joshua. The two birth certificates found in the townhouse were tested and both of them were counterfeit. Oh, and remember that blood-soaked ace bandage that was found at Debbie's while a witness had seen Annette wearing an ace bandage on her right arm a few days before the murders. There were a number of people who were interviewed about Annette claiming she was pregnant.

She went so far as to, one, of course, fool her own children, which is just sad because they were all excited for a new baby brother. But two, she also used the new baby as an excuse all the time. For example, throughout October when the girls were late or they couldn't make it to school for some reason, Annette would say she was having the baby. But then she would claim it was false labor.

And she did this again, just days before the murders. But then it changed to she had the baby. And that's why the children were absent. One week before the murder, Annette Williams came into the school. In the morning with both of her daughters, she was in the principal's office. Someone working at the school asked Annette, how's the baby doing? She said, fine. Okay, mind you, no baby.

Then Annette was asked, do you have any pictures? And she said, oh, not yet. Annette was standing there with both of her daughters when a school employee turned to them and said, who helps mommy more with the baby? And they both responded that they each helped. That's sad. It's sad that these girls are either confused or somehow Annette convinced them to lie for her. Even before all of this, Annette's probation officer Darlene said that on November 1st,

Annette told her over the phone that she'd given birth. Then at an appointment on the 9th, Annette said she named the baby, Elijah. Elijah, can you even like wrap your brain around this? Darlene asked Annette to bring proof that she had a baby, but she never did. Wow. So she even tried to pass Debbie's baby off with its real name. And what about this? Police also spoke to a woman named Cassandra, who said that on November 16th, between 5.30 and 6 p.m.,

she got a call from Fidel and he told her that he and Annette were gonna have their baby that day, but they quote, have to go do something first, end quote. Hmm, I wonder what that was that they needed to do. Cassandra told Fidel to call her and let her know when the baby came. And on November 17th, a friend of Cassandra's informed her that Annette had the baby. So Cassandra actually Paige Annette. Fidel called her back saying that they had a baby boy. But here's where things really came together. Police also spoke to Don, a neighbor of Fidel and Annette's, and I promise I'm wrapping this in a big, nice bow for you

so you understand how crazy the story is. Dawn said that in May of 1995, she went to Fidel and Annette's to just borrow their vacuum cleaner. And when she was inside, Vicki was there, along with a few other people. And Verne came in, yelling and screaming, and screaming that Debbie wasn't allowing him to see Jordan. We know James mentioned in the months leading up to the murder

that Vern would call and fight with Debbie over Jordan. Well, Don said that Vern was yelling and that he was tired of Debbie's shit and he wanted to, quote, kill the bitch, end quote. Vern then punched a hole in the wall between the living room and the kitchen. And Annette called for Fidel to come downstairs. Fidel then asked Vern if he wanted a guy

gun or a knife. And Annette told Vern to calm down because he would be the most likely suspect if Debbie was killed. Don told police that Fidel, Annette, and Vern moved to another room, and Don heard someone talk about a baby and whether they still wanted the baby. A man who had been sitting on the couch was then called into the room and he called out for Vicky to join them. And that's when Don heard that man and Vicky say that they still wanted the baby and they had the money. Wow. So it seemed like there was even a plan somewhere in the beginning to sell this poor baby.

Don told police that she did not actually think Fidel was serious when he asked for him whether he wanted a gun or a knife. Don explained that she remembered exactly what was said because she argued with her husband about it. And ultimately, they decided they did not want Fidel coming by their house anymore because they were capable of killing somebody. But there's more. In late November, a concerned citizen called the police and said that Vicky bought a gun from a guy named Ron. Vicky then loaned the gun to Annette a few days before the murders.

And after the murders, Annette supposedly gave the gun back to Vicki, who then returned it to Ron to throw it in the river. Of course, police confronted Vicky about her not being truthful. She stated, She was being entirely truthful. However, she did not want to tell them about the gun because she was worried they would charge her with murder. Vicky said she knew where the gun was, but she wanted to speak with the assistant state attorney before she told them.

So police got the assistant state attorney on the phone and he spoke to Vicki for a short time. Then she proceeded to lead police to the gun, which was in a lake in the area of Route 56, Butterfield Road and Hendrick Road. Vicky said that Annette asked her to get a gun for her and Fidel so that they could go buy a kilo of cocaine and they just needed it for protection.

Vicki actually just told Annette to go to the gun supply store. However, Annette told Vicki, she had a police record so she couldn't get a gun. Vicki admitted she did get the gun from a friend Ron two weeks before the murders, then she sold that gun to Annette on the day of the murders. They end up finding this gun. And when they do, they ask Vicki

if she was the one who threw the gun out of the car, and I hate that there was yet another person, but she said no, it was her friend Dorothy. Vicky was the one driving and Dorothy threw the gun. Following Vicki's interview and finding the gun, they interviewed Ron, they interviewed Dorothy, and they later determined that the gun they found fired the bullet that was recovered from Debbie's head.

It was a 25 caliber pistol. Vicki, Dorothy, and Ron were all charged with obstruction of justice. Wow, there were so many people, involved in this. And police continued investigating the murders. They spoke to Patrice and Dwight again, who said that in the summer and fall of 1995, Annette also asked them on multiple occasions to get her a gun, and they always said no. Police continued to try to identify the other black man that Patrice had seen at Fidel and Annette's

that night. But they showed Patrice a photo array. She began to cry. She looked at one photo and she said she thought it was the man she saw, she was too scared to be 100%. And Patrice eventually told the police this man was Calvin Bo Wilson. And she was fairly positive that it was Bo at the townhouse when Shee Annette and Josh arrived. He was never actually able to be 100% identified, but it does make sense. Josh said there was another person there by the nickname Boo Boo. Maybe he meant Bo or Bobo. After little Elijah was released from the hospital, Debbie's father Sam took custody of both him and Jordan and get this. When 22-month-old Jordan was with Debbie's sister Wendy after the murders,

he began talking to her. And here's what's wild. This little boy could speak very well. He just never talked to strangers. He revealed everything he saw to Wendy. He told her exactly what happened and who was there. He even knew people's names. Wendy called the police, told them

that Jordan saw the whole thing and that they needed to come talk to him. So they did talk to him and they were able to verify this information. Guess what? The killers thought would Deborah, Samantha, and Josh out of the way? They got rid of all the witnesses, but they were wrong. Baby Jordan could talk and they didn't know that. So Debbie's dad said, you better believe they would have butchered him as well had they known. Annette Williams was the first defendant to go to trial. The prosecution laid out all the evidence they compiled so far, telling the jury that Annette was never pregnant in 1995. Instead, she faked her pregnancy and Fidel went along with it.

By the fall of 1995, they really wanted a baby boy that resembled Fidel, so they conspired with Vern to kill Debbie, steal her unborn child, and pass it off as Annette and Fidel's. The prosecution contended that Vern wanted Debbie dead because he was angered her for persecution. preventing him from seeing his son Jordan. The defense admitted that Annette was present for the murders. However, they claimed Annette did not kill anyone. They said Annette had a twisted dependence on Fidel and thought she could keep him only by giving him a child. That's why she went along with his and Verne's plan

to kill Debbie and steal her baby. But you see, let's not forget that Annette was a nurse's aide. And through her training, it included the same study of how a C-section is conducted. We know it usually takes more than one person to carry it out. She said she only helped with the baby after it was removed from Debbie's womb, that she blew into his mouth to make sure he was breathing. But I think we know that she did much more than that.

Annette did not testify in her own defense, which is probably a good move on her part. But in the end, it didn't matter because the jury found Annette guilty of all charges. Following the verdict, Debbie's family was happy. Her sister Wendy said, we lost three members of our family and we will never get them back. How can you expect us not to be overwhelmed by excitement and grief?

Debbie's brother, Sam Jr., added that he wanted to wish Josh a happy birthday. He would have turned 10 the following day. Next up, the jury had to determine if Annette would receive life in prison or the death penalty. They decided death, which the judge later

formally sentenced her to. Vern Ward's trial was next. The prosecution's case was very similar to the one they presented at Annette's trial. However, they weren't allowed to tell the jury about Annette's confession implicating Vern. Instead, they had to rely on Patrice's testimony about how Josh named Vern

as one of his moms and sisters' killers. The prosecution argued that Vern wanted Debbie Dead because, as I said, she wouldn't give him access to his son, Jordan. And even if evidence can't place him at the scene of the crime, people couldn't account for his whereabouts on that night. And he should still be held accountable because he knew what was going to happen.

Vern's defense was that he was in no way, shape, or form involved in these murders. They said there was no physical evidence tying Vern to any of these crimes, and he had an alibi. He was at his friends, his own home, and his families on the night of the murders. Vern did take the stand in his own defense, denying that he had anything to do with the murders. And if you don't want to believe me, all you have to do is look at their police reports.

It'll tell you better than I can. All I'm asking is someone to please look at the facts. He called all the prosecution witnesses liars and spent a lot of his testimony explaining away the things that they said. The jury did not believe Verne's story, and they found him guilty on all counts. And the jury decided that he should also get the death penalty. Debbie's family said they thought Vern deserved it. It wouldn't bring Debbie, Josh, or Samantha

back. But Debbie's mother said every time she thought of them, she saw a picture of them or she heard somebody say their names, she thought of the murderers. And what those last few minutes of her loved one's life was like. In the end, the jury declined to give Vern the death penalty, citing a lack of physical evidence. He was given life in prison plus six years. Up last was Fidel's trial. The The prosecution's case was very similar to what we already heard in the previous trials. Fidel's defense told the jury he wasn't involved in any of the murders. It was Annette and Vern and possibly Vicky. The defense said Annette was possessive of Fidel, and she planned to cement the relationship

by claiming to be pregnant with his child. Annette then conspired with Vern and Vicki to steal Elijah and to present him to Fidel as his own. The defense said, those three committed the murders. Fidel had no idea about it. The defense wanted to tell the jury about Vicky's statements to the police, but the judge excluded them. The state would later say that they seriously considered charging Vicki in connection with the murders as well,

but ultimately they determined they could not actually place her at the murder scene. Fidel also testified on his own behalf, stating that Annette told him she was pregnant in February 1995 and that her due date was in August. Fidel explained that at that time he did not know that Annette could not have children. And when the baby kept not coming, he told her he didn't want to hear about her being pregnant anymore. Fidel explained to the jury that he did not want to have a child with Annette because he didn't even want the relationship to go very far. The jury once again did not believe Fidel's story and he was found guilty on all counts.

Debbie's dad, Sam, said the family was very happy with the verdict. He could now tell his grandsons that the last bad man was going to prison. Next, the jury had to decide if Fidel should receive the death penalty, and they agreed he should. And the judge sentenced Fidel to death. Following this, Debbie's sister Wendy said justice had been served, but it wasn't over for this poor family and never would be. Their lives were destroyed forever. But then, in 2003, Debbie's family got some very unfortunate news. Illinois Governor George Ryan commuted all.

death row sentences to life without parole. That meant that Fidel and Annette would no longer face death. Instead, they would spend the rest of their life in prison just like Vern. And today, all three of them remain behind bars. This was definitely a devastating blow to Debbie's loved ones. Her mother, Jackie, said, quote, it's not closure. You can't give me closure, not in this life.

They deserve to die. George Ryan played God, end quote. Jackie has been interviewed a number of times and she's talked about how shocking it was to see how much blood can come from a child's body referring to the crime scene photos that she had to see and that she has been only able to get through this because of antidepressants

and now she will never understand what was going through the killer's minds. Jackie's comfort comes from photos so she can remember her daughter and her grandchildren the way they were before. She said she can't even watch TV anymore. I didn't even think of that, but she explained

that even hospital shows with sick-suffering children have become unbearable. Debbie's father, Sam, who raised both Jordan, Elijah, said that they were both nervous and confused about the death penalties being overturned. He said, quote, I've been telling them that killers are in prison and will be killed for what they did.

And now they're asking me if they'll get out, end quote. In December 2011, Elijah, who goes by Eli, was 16 years old and he spoke to the media for the first time. He talked about how he and George Jordan shared a passion for football. They played on the varsity football team, Eli wearing 43 and Jordan wearing 34. Eli said the first time the brothers were apart

was in the fall of 2011. Jordan, who was now a senior, moved to Kentucky to live with his uncle. The move was so that Jordan could play football for a bigger high school, increasing his chances of being recruited. Eli mentioned that being separated from Jordan was really tough.

But to make it more bearable, they spoke on the phone every single night. Eli shared. that he tries not to think about the violence surrounding his birth. Instead, he talks to his grandpa about his mom. He said, quote, I like to learn more new stuff about her from my grandpa. Every day he tells me, you know,

you're looking more and more like your mom, and I'll just smile and ask questions about her. She lives on through us, end quote. He also mentioned sometimes it gets too much for him, and he has to walk away and cry by himself. I usually, like, look up stuff or something like that, just to, like, remind myself, like what really did happen, like reading through it.

And I mean, sometimes it just gets a little gruesome. I am not a hero. I'm just a grandpa who loved his, you know, dad who loved his daughter and a grandpa who loves his grandkids. Ultimately, as much as Sam says that he wants to hate these evil people for what they did, he doesn't want to teach hate to the boys. He believes in justice and in his heart, he forgives them. And he teaches Jordan and Elijah to have compassion and love instead of hate. and it seems like he's doing a great job raising those boys.

I hope that they've continued to thrive. And I'm so sorry to Debbie's family for what she went through and all of her children as well. This has been a long story, but I felt like it needed to be told so that we're aware of the evil that exists in our world, in our own friend group sometimes or even our families. It's so horrible to think that this really did happen. And there are so many other cases just like it.

So be careful, be safe, and thank you all for watching. I will see you in my next video. Bye.