True Crime with Kimbyr - Part 2: Young Couple’s Romantic Trip Turns Deadly | The Murder of Jay & Tanya - Feat. ‪@TheTrueCrimeNurse‬

Episode Date: April 3, 2026

In True Crime with Kimbyr, Part 2 unravels the chilling truth behind Tanya Van Cuylenborg and Jay Cook’s disappearance. As investigators uncover disturbing evidence, the case goes cold—until a revolutionary DNA breakthrough changes everything. Decades later, a hidden predator is finally exposed, revealing the horrifying fate of this young couple. With compassion and precision, True Crime with Kimbyr dives into the forensic twists, missed clues, and the emotional impact on the families. Who was responsible—and how did they evade justice for so long? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When the pressure is put on the neck, the carotid arteries become compressed, reducing oxygenated blood flow to the brain. At that same time, compression of the jugular veins prevents blood from draining away from the brain down to the heart, which increases pressure in the brain. This is why, if you've ever seen this in a movie, a strangulation, for example, you see the person's veins bulging in their face. This accelerates cerebral hypoxia, meaning that you've also lost oxygen to the brain. This can occur within seconds if the compression is severe enough, but irreversible brain injuries

require even more pressure for a lot longer. Strangulation is not a quick process, which would give plenty of opportunities to the attacker to change their mind. The fact that he was strangled rather than shot was also more personal. This required close physical contact and time, which is very different from the quick firearm homicide that he couldn't even face Tanya to do. This killer wanted Jay to know who was doing this to him. The official cause of death for Jay was ligature strangulation, but we still have something else to talk about.

Another disturbing finding in Jay's case was that there was a pack of cigarettes shoved down his throat. Why? The presence of a foreign object in the airway can obviously obstruct the airway and trigger the gag reflex if the victim is still alive when that happened. Now, determining whether or not these cigarettes were inserted before or after death could, be figured out by assessing the actual throat tissue. If the object was placed while the heart was still beating, there may be signs of aspiration or choking, mucosal injury or damage to the throat or bleeding in the mouth. The cause of death ruling clarified, though, that strangulation was the primary cause of death, so the forced insertion of those cigarettes was a twisted afterthought just to disrespect his body or maybe leave his mark. The killer was truly demented. Tanya's death based on

the gunshot wound meant that she passed quickly, but Jay's death involved slow oxygen deprivation. I couldn't help but wonder if the perpetrator took two entirely different approaches on purpose, for instance, to throw off the investigation, or could this mean that they were attacked by different people? Their scenarios were so vastly different from one another, but by the time both exams were complete, the ME's offices in two different counties had documented two completely different stories, even though the victims had disappeared together. What happened to Jay and Tanya is absolutely horrifying, but now I'm going to hand you back over to Kimber Leia to tell you the rest of their story. Thank you so much again for having me, Kimber. Bye, guys. I am so thankful for Kat's detailed

explanation of the autopsy finding. She is so good at explaining everything. As Kat mentioned, Tanya was shot in the back of the head, which appeared to be execution style from right outside the van. They now believe that Jay's van had been parked on that roadway. Investigators believe Tanya rolled down that embankment to her resting place due to the way the dirt pattern was found on her body. The bullet recovered from her school matched the ones located behind the tavern and that half-empty ammunition box. The swabs that were taken from her mouth, her body,

and the stain on her left pant leg were tested. And then the swabs as well as cuttings from the pants were immediately frozen so they could be preserved for possible future technology. The only confirmation they could make is that there was seminal fluid present, and the swabs matched the other findings. Like Kat said, the trauma response is real. And with a gun present, the restraints may not have been needed

to be tied very tightly. It was just enough that they were on to keep her latched to the van. Now, at the time, there was not DNA technology like we have today, it was truly, as they say, in its infancy. But science was progressing at a very fast rate. And investigators were anticipating that just in five to 10 years time, DNA would be the way to identify most killers. And that forward thinking was so important in this case and ones like it. As a matter of fact, just a few weeks before this couple was killed. The very first conviction on DNA evidence was made out in England. It was the call in

pitchfork case. If you've never heard of it, I'll link it in the sources. But back to Jay and Tanya's autopsies. Now that tissue I told you about, it was found further down his throat than the pack of cigarettes. And let me just point out, you know how we found the American brand of camels in the van. Now we're finding a pack of them at Jay's crime scene. So just remember that. But this pushed his tongue back. So we would have been struggling to breathe in that combination with the makeshift ligature strangled him, and he was exfixated. You could tell he clawed at his own neck

because there were scratches there, so he was fighting back. And the red nylon, those were dog collars, found wound around Jay's neck, and they were mysterious, since they were not identified by Tanya or Jay's families as belonging to them or being in that van when they left. However, the twine. That did come from the tied-up sleeping mats

that were stored and ready for the, a couple to use that night. So could the beds have already been laid out before the killer attack them? It was possible. And it seemed as though someone may have been following them, saw them in that van that night with the back doors open and joined the breeze, and they took that opportunity to target them. But Tanya's dad, the lawyer, he had a theory. He believed that they were killed by a hitchhiker because, as one article put it, they had a propensity for picking up hitchhikers according to Bill. He thought, he thought, he said, he thought, he said, he was a propensity for picking up hitchhikers according to Bill. He thought that maybe the killer wanted to rob them of their passports,

and then they were just at the wrong place at the wrong time. Bill went on to explain, if someone was on that road near the ferry port and they needed a ride somewhere, the couple would have agreed to take them. They were just so trusting. And that was how he put it. He said that Tanya was a tremendously kind person and that there were only good people as far as she was concerned. So, this was a theory, but as a news spread of this horrific crime, residents in both counties wanted to help. Witnesses were calling in. They were reporting seeing Jay's dad's copper van on the night on November 18th.

Many saw it as it came off the first ferry from Canada and headed down the 101. Next, there was a spotting in a town called Hoodsport. Now, this was around 8 p.m. But it only takes about two hours to get there from. the port. So that was interesting. That was a lot of time that went by. They were spotted at Hood Canal grocery store. This was a mom and pop shop and a clerk named Judith Stone came forward and told investigators she remembered this young couple. They bought snacks and they were checking out and while they were, they asked her, how far are we from Hood Canal Bridge? And she told them,

oh, you're a little past that. Actually, you're a long way past that. They were about an hour from it. It turned out they missed their exit and they may have seen the word hood on a map and went to hoodsport and thought maybe they were close, but they were not. The thought was that maybe they were sightseeing and they wanted to stop by the floating bridge because it was a tourist destination. And then they would continue on their way to Seattle. On the map, that makes the most sense. But they got off track. The clerk told them how to get back on track to go to Seattle. They were only about an hour away from the ferry terminal that would take them over. We know they bought a ticket there for 10.15.

So they headed that way. But they were then spotted by a deli clerk about 45 minutes later in Allen, Washington, at which point they were described as being alone. So no one else was traveling with them. And they did not seem distressed. They actually seemed happy. And they were just asking for directions. They were 30 minutes from the ferry terminal.

After they boarded, they would have docked in Seattle around 1135, but there were no other confirmed sightings of them. However, investigators believed there was evidence they made it across that bridge because all the locations that I plotted on that map, Jay's body, Tanya's, where the van was. They were all on the Seattle side or the west side of the water. Remember their plan was to go check out Jensko that night? So they were familiar with that location? Well, that was only a 15-minute drive away from the port. But now they would have been there so much later because of that unexpected detour.

Jay's family believed he would have decided at that point to just camp out in or around the parking lot of the business because he would not want to be too far from it from the next morning because they had to be there on time. Now, why this makes sense as being where they were when they cross paths with a killer will be revealed later. But it would have been about midnight at the first time. night at the time. It was dark. And someone was watching. Someone saw them all alone. Someone saw

Tanya. The killer did. And the only thing in between the killer and her was her young, lanky boyfriend. The killer already had a gun, ample ammunition, gloves, and zip tithes with them. So that should tell you something. He was hunting. And Tanya's dad was right about one thing. They were in the wrong place. the wrong time, probably outside the van, prepping the back, unwinding the twine for the mats, laying them out when they're a killer got his own idea. Investigators believe he ambushed them in the dark at gunpoint, and he was able to subdue both of them by instructing them to put zip ties on their wrists, and you most likely zip tied them to the inside of the van. Then he drove out to Highbridge, and it will make a lot more sense why he chose this exact

location later, but it's secluded and familiar to him. a place he knew that he could gain control over his victims. First, he killed Jay so that he would not be in his way. Jay was an obstacle to this predator having his way with Tanya. He had to get rid of Jay. But it wasn't without a fight. Why didn't he just shoot Jay? We don't know for sure.

But one theory was that the killer didn't have that extra ammunition box, that he had only taken a few bullets and his gun. and that he went back to his home to retrieve more after killing Jay the way that he did. He wouldn't want to risk the chance of having to have more ammo than he did, something go awry, so he used what he had on hand. The dog collars and twine. The dog collars could have very well been at that location nearby under that bridge and the killer simply grabbed them out of convenience. Once Jay was dead, the perpetrator was able to gain complete control of retention. And from later evidence, we know that he took Jay's van back to where he was living at the time.

This shows that he could have had Tanya with him for days before he killed her. Keeping her in a place, he felt comfortable, most likely not taking her out of the back of that van, but it's plausible he threatened to shoot her if she didn't comply. And he promised to let her go if she did, keeping her secured with zip ties. I mean, she had just witnessed him killing her. her boyfriend, I don't think she was going to do anything to risk her life. Eventually, when he was finished and he had enough of Tanya and got what he wanted, as disgusting as that sounds, and how cruel, because it was.

He drove her out to that rural road, stopped the van, cut her loose, and instead of just letting her walk away, he took her life, probably thinking they needed to get rid of her. He couldn't let a witness get away. She had seen too much. He made his way to Rumors' cabaret, where he most likely frequented, considering his urges, and he discarded evidence behind that tavern next door.

Then he left the van parked nearby before either taking a Greyhound out of town or simply getting a ride from a friend or hitchhiking home. Now, I know this is a lot. And some of it, we know because of the outcome of this case, and that came much later. But what they were focused on at this time

were fingerprints. That was the best evidence they had to confirm a person's identity. So they were scouring the inside and the outside of the van, and they had found a number of prints inside, all of which belonged to Tanya and Jay, or Jay's family members who had access to the van prior to the trip. But then they found something else.

A partial palm print on the exterior back door of the van, and that was not a match to anyone in Jay's family or to him and Tanya. It's what's called an unknown, a latent print, And the blue blanket that was found on Jay's body, that was unknown to anyone who knew Jay and Tanya as well. So now, they've got a few pieces of evidence that connect to the killer. And the only thing connecting these scenes was really that zip tie. So they were also swab for DNA, which was preserved.

However, that palm print came up empty. No convicted felons were a match in their system. Now, when I say their system, let me just explain something to you. This was a manual filing system. We're talking before COTUS. No, that was in the 1990s. We're talking about the Henry classification system. This was labor-intensive.

It involved physical paper and 10 print cards. And they'd start with criminals nearby and work outward. A filing cabinet technician would actually manually classify, store, and then start through hundreds of these cards based on fingerprint patterns. In this process, as you can possibly imagine, from what I just told you, could take months or even years. Someone had to literally take pieces of paper of a print and cards and match the lines. All the while, a killer is still on the loose and getting

away. Tanya was laid to rest at the University of Victoria's Interfaith Chapel on Saturday, November 28th, and so many of her heartbroken family members and friends came to say goodbye. Her father just wanted justice. He had a dream that this world would become a better place, and I hate to be negative. But I don't think that dream came true. Not with all the stories that I cover, unfortunately. Evil still exist. But what Bill really wanted was less guns on the streets and to think. This was 1987. He was referring more to the U.S. than Canada, which at the time he felt was a much safer place. Bill's grief turned into a mission, a war against guns. As a lawyer, he wanted to take on the legislature in both Canada and the U.S.

But as far as this case was concerned, Chania's family offered a $50,000 reward. Bill was convinced it had to be a psychopath that killed his daughter and her boyfriend. But no tips resulted in an arrest. Even so, investigators followed every lead that they received because they wanted to be a psychopaths. to solve this double homicide. Weeks passed and now it was Christmas. It was the holidays, the first in the Van Kylanborg household without Tanyan's 17 years.

The first holiday for the cooks without Jay. In the holidays, there were time to reconnect, to reflect on the important things, the happy things. But to a very disturbed person, it was time for the opportunity to hurt these poor families even more. Because about four weeks later, after the murder, these children, Jay and Tanny's families were receiving a series of very disturbing letters.

Some of them were greeting cards. These started during the holidays, and for example, they would come on Mother's Day, Father's Day. And these letters were never signed, and they came from all over the United States with no return address, but they did have post stamps. And they would show them coming from New York, Los Angeles, and Seattle. And more would follow further taunting and demeaning the memories of these families. Now, Chief Deputy Ron Penzero of the Skagit County Sheriff's Office said, the handwriting and these letters and cards was very distinctive, and there were some phrases that were also very distinctive.

Hallelujah, Bloody Jesus is one of this person's favorite phrases. He would use it in almost every letter. One even said, I'm the happiest human being on earth. In fact, I am on a Michael Jackson victory tour celebrating my victory, apparently over killing Tanyan Jay. Deputy Panzero said, he just continues to make life miserable for these parents who have lost their children. It's important this individual will be caught. Panzero had a point. The trauma endured by this family, it had to stop. And there really isn't any doubt about that. But in this case, a mentally ill person was seeking attention. This was a hoax. It was to torture these families that were already on edge.

This wasn't the killer. It was looked into extensive. And most of the time, killers don't write letters, yes. There have been a couple, maybe a few famous cases where letters were part of the plot. Usually, it's someone mentally unstable, getting a thrill out of this entire situation, which is just so hard to believe. But America's Most Wanted featured Jay and Chania's story,

and the cards were shown on an episode, and right afterwards, someone actually called in. They said they knew who this was, and it turned out to be a 78-year-old mentally ill man, who lived in Seattle. Once he was investigated, he was clear of all murder charges. The callers tipped did not lead to an arrest because the man actually had no connection to the murders.

He was simply a sick person with no motive other than to hurt people and no charges were filed. And I just couldn't help but feel so sorry for these families. But now I want to go a little faster in the timeline. There's no need to draw this out. any longer than it needs to be, because yes, there were a ton of suspects, 200, actually, and they were all looked into, but nothing panned out. There was one promising person of interest in alleged serial killer named Charles Sinclair,

also known as the coin shop killer. He committed crimes from the 80s into the 1990s, but his MO or modus operandi didn't match. Sinclair was accused of killing people who were shop owners. He was involved in 11 homicides. And the reason he killed them was to to gain entry to the shops, to incapacitate the owners, and to rob their stores. So that's why it just didn't line up. So even though they looked into him, he was ruled out and they moved on. They even had crime stoppers jump in, and there was a show made about the case, and even more reward money was put forth.

But still nothing. The question became, how could investigators possibly track down someone who seemed to vanish without leaving a clear trail, someone careful enough to avoid detection for days than weeks and even years. Sadly, Tanya's father wouldn't live to see her killer brought to justice. He passed away in 1997 and he had done so much. But little did anyone know, it would take decades and revolutionary leaps and DNA technology to finally unmask the killer. But there's a story within a story in this case, which makes it very unique and interesting. The investigation stalled for years.

until CODIS was developed in 1990, and by 2003, a full DNA profile was created from those clippings taken from Tanya's pants. They now had the killer's biological identity. And given how violent these crimes were, they believed when they put this DNA into the database, they were gonna find a known felon, especially since CODIS reached further

than just Washington where the crime occurred. The killer's DNA, or the killer himself, at this point, only went by individual A. It was a blow to the case, though, because no matches were found. There were none in CODIS, and now they had to wait because it seemed like, okay, he's not in the system. It doesn't mean he's not a violent offender. He's just not a felon because he hasn't been caught yet. So until he strikes again, they had nothing to compare individual A's DNA to. Years stretched on. DNA testing kept getting better.

You could even use a much smaller sample and now saliva could be used. So in 2010, just to be sure that that guy who wrote those letters was cleared 100%. They got a DNA sample off one of the back of the stamps that he licked and put on an envelope. But it was not a match to the DNA from Tanya. Jay's sister Laura became even more outspoken as the years went on and she got older. She said that their family never stopped talking about her brother. And it was so hard not to think about the fact that he had been murdered. She said their family just tried to think of him as gone.

And he may have been gone, but this case stuck with those who worked on it. And a new lead investigator, Jim Sharp, had taken over and he never stopped chasing leads. He was known as one of the best. So much so that people that worked with him said, if anything ever happened to them, they would want sharp on their case. And it wouldn't be until 2018 when there was finally some hope. But remember I told you

that there's a story within a story here. And at the time of all of this happening, there was who seemed to be just a random woman living in Olympia, Washington, just lived her life unaware. She was related to a killer. So in 2013, 31-year-old Chelsea Rustad got interested in a new home.

hobby. She talked all about it on October 18th in a Facebook post. She said, it occurred to me a few days ago that I had no idea what any of my great-grandparents names were. So I went on Anstratstree.com and I started looking up a few things. It also helps when you have a genealogist's cousin to piggyback. And she thanked her cousin Elise. Now at this point, Chelsea had built out her family tree and she posted a picture of it on this post. But this was only the the beginning because Chelsea got obsessed with finding all of her ancestors and building out this tree. And two years later in 2015, while randomly scrolling on Facebook, Chelsea came across a post by none other than Ancestry.com. They were doing a Halloween contest giveaway. The post read,

Halloween, is said to lift the veil that separates the living from the dead. Genealogists do this 365 days a year. And it went on to ask users to share their favorite Halloween memory from childhood. And winners would get a free DNA kit. Now, this was something that Chelsea was very interested in because you submit your saliva and you get an actual DNA profile, you put it into a database, and that can open up so many more connections. So she posted a picture of herself at five years old,

dressed up like a ballerina on Halloween back in 1987, which was the same year, ironically, that Jay and Tanya were killed. Chelsea is on the left, sitting next to her mother. A simple contest turned into so much more. Just a few days later on November 3rd, she gets an email from Ancestry that she's one of the winners of the free DNA kit.

And by November 15th, she was posting a picture on Facebook with her new kit talking about how excited she was to win. Now, on that post, her genealogist, Cousin Elise, told her that she should put her DNA raw file on a website called Jedmatch. Now, we're going to come back to this. Oh, wow.

Let's just pause on this part because there's a lot to this, like I said, but I need you to go back to the investigation. Because in 2018, three years later, from all of this stuff happening with Chelsea, a company named Parabon Nanolabs developed a technique called phenotyping, where DNA is used to make a composite sketch. You know how these are usually drawn, by people, well, now they could put DNA inside of a system,

and it could tell them a person's complexion, their hair color, their eye color, even their face shape. So Detective Sharf was interested, and he agreed to work with his company. They could possibly be looking at the face of Tanya and Jay's killer. It's creepy, but it's important. And only three weeks time, they were able to know

he was from Northern European descent with blondish, reddish hair, green eyes, a light complexion, and even though they couldn't tell his age, they created various composites from this information, and this was huge. Now, the main reason to do this is to bring more attention to the case. They showed the public what this killer could look like at 25 years old, 45, and 65.

30 years had already passed, so maybe someone from back then would recognize the younger version of the killer, or someone present day would recognize the older version and tips came in, but they developed into no leads whatsoever. You may remember the day, though, that the Golden State Killer was caught, this old man in a wheelchair. Well, that's Joseph D'Angelo.

He might be old at this point. He was 72 upon his arrest, but he was once a young man. And on the afternoon of April 24th of 2018, at his home in Sacramento, All of that once young man's deeds came back to get him. All thanks to advances in forensic genetic genealogy. And a woman named Cece Moore, a pioneer in the field at Parabon Nanolabs. Now, her name might be familiar to you because if you followed the Idaho case in Brian Coburger, he was arrested the same exact way with the same technology.

They used to match his DNA to the knife sheath left behind at the crime scene. Now, I know this can be a very complicated. type of technology, but to break it down in a very easy manner, someone who wants to build out a family tree submits their DNA to a database, but one that works with agencies that are allowed to access those genetic codes to be used with law enforcement. So contrary to what so many people believe, it's not any DNA database that you choose to send your saliva to.

We'll get into that later. Should authorities be allowed to go into any database? I don't know. That's up to you. I don't personally care because if some, committed a crime in my family, I will gladly allow my DNA to catch them. But presently, it's Jedmatch and Family Tree DNA who works with authorities. And you have to choose to let that specific database use your DNA to match at crime scenes. However, in Brian Coburger's case, I just want you to know, they used my heritage.

And that was actually a violation of the site's terms. So that's a whole other story. The point is, in this case, that technology became available. And Detective Sharf thought of Jay and Tanya. If this could be a way to connect them to their killer through the family tree and find him somehow, they were at least going to try it. Essentially, what it does is it works backward by finding an individual on Jedmatch with a fraction of the killer's DNA.

We're talking at least 3%. And from there, genealogists like Cece Moore begin using traditional methods to build out a tree. Eventually, they're going to link that far off relative to the killer. Jed match was that site that Chelsea, remember her, the girl who won the contest, Chelsea's cousin told her she should upload her DNA profile to. Well, she did. This was before you chose whether or not to allow your DNA to be matched to criminal investigations.

Now they automatically do it because they give you an entire disclaimer before you submit. But back then, you had to manually choose that option. And recall that caption from the contest on Halloween, it said, to lift the veil that separates the living from the dead, genealogists do this 365 days a year, will her choice to check that box and allow it changed everything because it was about to unmask a killer.

It took three years before Chelsea heard anything. But when Detective Sharf allowed individual A's DNA to be used by Parabon's team, it took only days. Detective Sharf couldn't believe it. He was skeptical that a distant relative was going to be identified, but Cece Moore began going through public records, obituaries, and finally, she found a family of six from Seattle. The husband and wife had four children, three girls and one boy.

Well, that boy who was now a man was their prime suspect. And he had a name, William Earl Talbot, the second. His father had the same name. And it was on the evening of May 17th when authorities from Skagit County knocked on Chelsea's front door. And when she asked, what is this in regard to? They said they were investigating one of her family members for murder, a double homicide from 1987.

Chelsea's response was, oh my God, he killed people? She didn't know William personally. She didn't even know his immediate family members other than distant names on a family tree and that she was his second cousin. The cops were essentially there because they wanted to verify details about her family and they hoped she was going to be willing to help.

Chelsea said in her book called Inherited Secrets, which I highly recommend you read, I'm going to leave it below because this is her story from her perspective and it's told so well. She's a genetic witness to a murder, as she puts it. She always wanted to help victims of violence, and now she felt like it was her chance. Now, she didn't know much about her extended family,

but she had connected to some of them through Ancestry and then Facebook. And what she could gather is that she thought William, who went by Bill, was estranged from his family because he wasn't in any of their family photos except for when he was a baby. She granted detectives access to ancestry and her accounts on Jedmatch as well, but she wouldn't give them her raw DNA file of her own DNA. and rightfully so, because she thought that's unnecessary because I'm not the one being investigated. She thought what she provided was more than enough, and it was because by the very next day, they had a warrant for her cousin's arrest for the murder of Tanya Van Kuylenborg.

During the time, they had pinpointed his name. They were also interviewing people who knew William, friends, family that they tracked down, and one of those people was a man named Michael Seat. He was one of William's roommates. They shared a house along with another man named Timothy McPherson back in 1987, when William was only 24 years old. Michael actually got William a job driving trucks for a manufacturing company. And here is an interesting fact. Remember how I told you that we're going to find out later that Jan Tanya were most likely camping out in their van and the Gensko parking lot?

Well, that's because Michael told investigators, that Williams' truck route went right through that industrial neighborhood in Seattle, right where Jenska was. He was very familiar with that area. And then where Jay's body was found, that was only seven miles from William's parents' house where he was living at the time that Tanya and Jay were killed. He had lost his job, and then he had to move out of his house that he shared with Mike and Tim. And not only that, Mike told the investigators,

He remembered William actually taking him down to that same bridge way back in the early 80s, of course, before the young couple was killed. He told investigators that him and William just walked around that area taking photos, which was something they both liked to do. And that brings me to Tanya's camera. Remember, it was never located. Only the lens had been found. But back in 1990, someone sold it to a pawn shop in Oregon,

and they were not able to match it to that same. seller. But they were able to match it to the lens. It was her camera. But here's something even creepier. Mike said, he remembers the fall of 1987. It lines up to when Tanya and Jay were killed. He went to Williams' house. And he remember seeing a copper van sitting out in the driveway. He thought that's weird. It was unfamiliar to him. But the reason it stood out was not only that. As Mike put it, he was a car guy. I am sure a van like that would have stood out. And to think, his former roommate was a killer.

He could have never imagined that. He said that came as a surprise. But with this new information, even more evidence connected to the areas and the items related to this case. But Detective Scharf needed more to make an arrest. William had only been convicted for one crime, an assault. And he was just fined $150. There was another one, though, indecent exposure.

But other than that, nothing. Then William's sister was contacted, one of them, and she provided even more damning information. She said William was always a troublemaker. He had threatened his other siblings and even broke his sister's tailbone when they'd grown up, all because he wanted to turn up the radio while she was changing in her room. He smashed her door down and attacked her. He also tried to kill their family cat by throwing it down their well. Yeah. And he dropped out of high school before he completed the ninth grade.

He was born on March 4th of 1963 in Washington, to his mom, Patricia, and his father, William. He was their second child. He was antisocial and had patterns of violent behavior from the beginning. He was a loner that was never close to anyone and never married. Other family members who were interviewed said

that Williams' issues started when he was as young as 11 years old. He had violent outbursts, and he had disregard where others' welfare. He would kick his dad and sister. And counseling was sought, but it never helped. When he was 16, he told his father he couldn't wait to get his driver's license because the first thing he was going to do was run him over.

Unbelievable. He also had curly red hair. Remember the composite sketch? They said he was heavyset his entire life and not popular with females. The only time a girl was interested in him is when he got in a motorcycle accident and he was going to collect insurance money and then one girl gave him attention for the wrong reasons. But other than that, he really didn't date at all. He didn't get married, didn't have children.

People found him to be very abrasive. He was constantly harassing his classmates. And police had been to the Talbot household a number of times for disturbances, even inappropriately engaging his sister in behaviors that at her young age, she didn't even understand at the time, and I think you know what I'm trying to say.

He's a predator. He'd been estranged from his family for 20 years. He didn't even attend his mother funeral. And when they sent him cards over the years, he would return them to the sender. The past didn't matter, though. His DNA was found on a deceased young woman, a teenager back in 1987, but they still needed a current sample of Williams' DNA to confirm that. In 2018, he was still a truck driver. So Sharf dispatched a surveillance team to follow him, watching, waiting for him to throw away something that would contain his DNA.

And apparently not only did he hate people, but he also hated the environment, because he littered. And I'm thankful for that, because at a red light, he opened his car door and he threw out a paper coffee cup. That was it. That was all they needed. And once they swapped it, it was a 100% match to individual A, the seminal sample swab from Tanya's body.

The embankment, the zip ties over there, the van, And it was all coming together. Sharf actually cried and cheered at the same time when he was given the go-ahead to bring William into custody. He had since retired. But this investigator was ready to close this case. He decided to arrest 55-year-old Talbot at his workplace. That way, he would not be armed and he wouldn't be as dangerous.

When William parked his truck and headed inside, Sharf approached him and asked him about Jay and Tanya's murders. And of course, William didn't want to talk to him and told him, can you come back tomorrow? But Sharf was there for one purpose. He told William, put your hands on your head, you're under arrest for the first degree murder of Tanya Van Collenberg.

Initially, investigators only had enough evidence at this point to charge William with Tanya's murder. But only a few days later, he was charged with Jay's murder as well. Tanya's brother John was shocked when Detective Sharf called him that day and said, we've got him. And John said, really, but where is he?

And Sharf said, He's in the back of my car right now. It was unreal. John was happy to know that his family could finally get some relief. Their mother was still alive at this time, but she was in her 80s. And Jay's sister, Laura, she spoke to the press. She said, it's hard to put into words this feeling of relief and joy and great sorrow this arrest brings. Although her family got some closure that Jay's killer was caught, Jay's mom said,

her son's still gone. Now, once booked in jail, they took his fingerprints, and they also matched to that palm print collected from the back of the van. Investigators believed that William had been violating women for years and getting away with it.

How? I don't know. But that night, he encountered Jay and Tanya, and he was out looking for a victim. He was stalking those streets in a familiar area he frequented when he was on his truck routes. But of course, He pleaded not guilty.

Like, it wasn't enough that he got away with it for 31 years, I guess, at this point. No. This man is cold. We know that much. He only cares about himself. But this was not going to be easy. As prosecutors prepared for trial, they faced an unprecedented challenge. This was the first ever criminal trial using genetic genealogy as evidence.

And yes, you may not have ever heard of this case before, but you heard that correctly. It was the first criminal trial to use investigative genetic genealogy. It was groundbreaking, but it was risky. What a jury trust this new kind of forensic science? And by the way, Chelsea attended the trial, and she sat with Jay and Tanya's families. She even gave Tanya's brother John Flowers when she met him. Chelsea said that she was very nervous considering the fact. It was her relative that allegedly killed these two innocent people.

Jay's mom was still as emotional as the day she found out that he was dead. She said she still takes a sweater of his out from his drawer and hugs it. Obviously, that pain never goes away. But in a shocking twist, William's attorneys plan to use that same DNA evidence. They're not disputing its accuracy at all. But they spun it into a chilling alternative theory, one where William was actually innocent and that there was a good reason that his DNA was found where it was.

And I'm sure you can guess what his defense strategy was. No one knew exactly how this trial would go, but everyone knew the stakes could not be higher. By the time the trial came about on June 11th of 2019, it had been more than three decades since Tanya and Jay were brutally murdered. And finally, a jury would hear the evidence against William Talbot II and in a historic way.

And from the moment the trial began, Tension filled that courtroom. Tanya's brother, John, Jay's mother, Leona, they sat in that courtroom quietly watching the man accused of stealing their loved ones' futures. To them, William appeared defiant. Almost casual, he showed no remorse, no sorrow, no sense of responsibility for the unimaginable pain he had caused.

Detective Willard, remember him? He was the one that was at the initial crime scene back in 1987. He took the stand. of course, long retired at this point. But he, after all those years, had this tense moment having to recall everything from way back then. But he was up for the challenge. He painstakingly opened and identified and re-identified all the evidence, including Tanya's pants, that William's DNA was found on.

What was maybe a bit surprising was that the defense didn't deny the DNA belonging to William. Instead, they argued that it meant he didn't kill anyone. They wanted the jury to believe, are you ready for this? And an 18-year-old girl, Tanya, traveled from Canada to Seattle for one overnight trip and decided to consensually be with this other man, unprotected, a complete stranger, while she was on her period. Yeah, right. And that was so infuriating to me if it doesn't anger you enough that the defense is actually trying to argue that her fluids

fluids were on the pants as well, and that meant she was turned on. I kid you not that was one of their arguments. I was like, excuse me, I know who you have a law degree, and so do I. But have you ever taken a biology class? I'm just curious, because a woman's anatomy is not that simple. They were trying to argue this to a jury with seven women. Some of them later said they wanted to laugh because it was preposterous. One juror said it was completely off base.

So now you know what some of them were thinking. But what are the chances that even if this was consensual, in that small window of time, the night before Gensko opened in the morning, that this couple would encounter yet another random stranger who would then kill them. Highly unlikely. But it was the jury's perspective that mattered,

seven women and five men deliberated. The first thing they said they did was write the definition of reasonable doubt on a whiteboard, keeping it at the center of their decision-making process, which is very smart. They didn't even have to decide on the DNA evidence or how the match was obtained. That wasn't a question to them. How it got there was. They went through every scenario, but the only one that made sense was the states. The defense to them did not provide enough to counter it. What they were left with was the timeline. One of the jurors, his name was Bob Martin. He had a

master's degree in geography. He was a retired planning director and he was a very visual. He and the others needed a map because they wanted to map up all the crime scenes, right? The path of travel. Well, they asked the judge for permission for a map of Washington and she said no. So I thought this was so, so interesting. Bob literally drew the entire area from memory from all the the times he worked on jobs over his entire career. This helped because the jurors were trying to pin down the couple's travel and where they were and it made sense. They crossed paths with William at Jensko parking lot or around that area. Now going into deliberations, there were only a few jurors that were 100% on William's guilt. But by the second day, almost everyone was on board. And by

Thursday afternoon on June 27th, they were all on the same page. The verdict was announced the next morning on Friday, June 28th of 2019. William Talbot was found guilty, and he was sentenced to two life terms in prison without parole. When the verdict was read, he gasped out loud. That was like the first time he spoke. And he's like, I didn't do it. And I was like, okay, sir, but then who did? To some of the jurors, it really shocked them because it was the first time they heard him speak. and it was to defend himself. Of course it was. But he never took the stand.

Would it have helped? Probably not. Was justice served? I definitely believe it was. But of course, William tried to appeal in 2021. Sadly, Tanya's mother had passed away by that time. She died several months after sentencing on March 3rd of 2020. She lived long enough to see justice done.

But William wanted to say justice done. to fight. He believed that one of the jurors had bias going into the trial because she had been violated when she was younger and had stated that she was concerned with her ability to be fair and impartial. She said if this case is going to involve violence in women, it's just something that I've already experienced in my own life. And she said that she feared she would always inherently have a bias as a mother, so that's just one thing she didn't think she could get past. But the judge allowed her to be seated as a juror. And now William wanted a retrial. He wrote a letter for his appeal and it read, quote,

imagine yourself somewhere, anywhere, and you experience a nosebleed, or you cut yourself on something sharp, and you leave some blood or other sources of DNA behind. And later, maybe the same day, maybe days later, and unknown to you, there's a violent crime committed at the very same spot, based on Sunahomish County's way of thinking, the only possible suspect is the source of that blood,

regardless of all other evidence or lack of, end quote. Sir, I'm just going to say this, Tim, it wasn't your blood. It wasn't your blood. Your private parts, they don't just... Never mind. You know what I mean? You can't make sense of the senseless. So there he was making this appeal, which was denied.

This case, Mark. a significant victory. Investigative genetic genealogy helped catch a criminal who had been on the loose way too long. Yet this landmark moment also sparked intense discussions, debates about privacy, ethics, and the boundaries of science. Genetic genealogy, while it is groundbreaking, it raises some understandable concerns.

Many people are worried about what could happen if their DNA is freely given to ancestry websites. and is then accessed by law enforcement. Could their most private and personal information be misused? And I understand that that is a genuine concern. Maryland and Montana became the first states to enact strict laws, restricting police from accessing consumer DNA databases. They want to balance privacy with the pursuit of justice.

Other states might follow. But one thing is clear. Genetic genealogy isn't going to go anywhere. It's only going to get better. It has reshaped criminal investigations, forever changing how detectives are going to approach cases, ones that were considered hopeless. And for Tanya and Jay's family,

this groundbreaking, even controversial technology provided long-awaited answers. Just think if you were them. They thought the justice would never come. Yet even as the legal system declared closure, Tanya's poem etched on her gravestone, served, as a quiet reminder of what violence truly steals away. Innocence, potential, and dreams. As we are going to continue to explore new ways to fight crime, stories like Tanya and Jays remind us to

always move forward, but do it thoughtfully. Embrace justice, but also think about safeguarding privacy. If we can do that, we can feel secure that our DNA could be used for good purposes. I know I don't mind mind being helped to catch a killer. I believe that we can do that we can feel secure. I believe that every family truly deserves closure and for justice to be served. I want to thank all of you for being here for Tanya and Jay's story. I will see you my very next video. Own it all. Pay off your home, travel for life, drive a Ferrari.

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