TrueLife - 75mg of 4-aco-dmt, 10 strips of acid, & telling your parents your dead

Episode Date: October 6, 2022

In many theories of perception, the subject-object relationship is often very problematic because of the assumed separation between the internal mental subject and the external physical world. In this podcast we suggest a conceptual framework which overcome to a great extent some traditional difficulties in the subject-object relationship, at least, that is our intention. However, the conversation turns towards 75mg of 4-aco-dmt, 10 strips of acid, & telling your parents your dead

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark. fumbling, furious through ruins

maze, lights my war cry Born from the blaze The poem is Angels with Rifles The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Serafini Check out the entire song at the end of the cast Ladies and gentlemen,

Welcome to Wednesday It is The past, the present, the future. I heard a good saying one time. It said, Tomorrow is the future. Yesterday is the past. Today is a gift.

That's why they call it the present. And so I give you the gift of Ranga on this beautiful Wednesday. Be it subject, be it object, or be it observer. What say you, Ranga? I just read your description in that LinkedIn post. It was nice. It's always a point of curiosity, right? The subject-object thing, it's about where you draw the line.

And I think that's where we go back to where do I want to enclose the space that I want to consider myself and then there is a outside view. So I felt that it's easier to erase the line rather than sustain it. It's too much energy if you are noticing. It's just too much energy in keeping up those barriers of separation. So do you feel the same way? Is that why? was the thought behind that post? Well, I would agree the amount of energy that goes into trying to dissect our daily life is immense.

And I think that that is the point of contention for most people. Like, that's where you get stuck. You know, we talk about depression is being stuck in the past and anxiety is being trapped in the future. But I can't get past this. there's some sort of thing that pulls it all together and it's like this subjugation, whether we're subjugating words or we're subjugating people. And I just feel this weird sort of gravity towards language. And like it just the more that I think about it, the more it enthralls me.

And the more that I think about it, the more I see it in my life acting out on the world stage. And not so much in the noises I make with my face. but in the actions that I have with the trees, with my cats, with my family, with the workplace. No matter what, it's this, it's this shell or this cocoon like you might say that I think we're breaking out of, and I think it's just part of language.

So an example that's in any conversation, we have a subject we're talking about, and then I think of it more like this. I think that in any relationship, it seems to me one person is a subject and the other person is an object. But if you think in that particular way, aren't you objectifying the person that you're talking to? Definitely, right? And the person or, you know, thing or just so-called non-living thing for me which contains consciousness, right? Does it have a subjective opinion, right?

the question of solopism comes to my mind, right? You're the only conscious being and everything else is an autonomous entity that is just happening, you know, to serve for your life, right? That question is that. But more so equally along the lines, the other question is what if the other person is also, you know, subjectively perceiving you as an object? So at that point, the question is, are you the object or the subject? Right? And it's confusing. It's so confusing.

But I think that thought process gets my mind. mind to at least calm down to a certain extent to participate in that dynamic play. Yeah. Do you think that that's you taking on the role of the observer at that point in time? The role of, yeah, I would say awareness, right? Not just being restricted to this body, trying to, I do not believe in empathy as much as it's conventionally defined. I think it's very difficult to get to that place of empathizing because we are, I believe we are so triggered with our survival instincts and most of our actions stem from fear of death.

So that is going to be a selfish attribute, which is not a bad thing. It is necessity for survival, right? In that sense, before we split into this idea of maybe I am the awareness watching my thoughts, we are in those thoughts, right? So during that, all these subjugation is happening. Right. So when we go to awareness, so which awareness am I? Am I the awareness just trapped in this body or the awareness trapped in that body or the awareness that is existing as consciousness just because it doesn't have the senses? So where am I?

Right. And that question doesn't have an answer. So continuously asking that is it seems even though it seems hard at that moment, it seems much more easier for me. rather than doing the whole subjugation and, you know, playing that game of you and me. What do you mean it doesn't have an answer? Like, why, can't it be both? It seems like it's a both and to me. Like, you are both.

Yes, yes. Yes, it's, this, this takes me to this scene that I saw in this new series called A Trip to Infinity. Did you get a chance to catch that? I have not. No, please tell me about it. It's beautiful. It's a 90-minute movie. on Netflix and it's amazing it's great it has all these mathematical concepts and different people

integrating different multidisciplinary thing trying to explain what infinity is for them right and one of the most simpler explanations to that is that is add you know use the numbers one plus one minus one plus one minus one and take it to infinity what's the answer right So it's not one or zero. It's both zero and one. Right. So that's what infinity is. And in that sense, yeah, when we keep asking, am I the subject or the object or am I both, right? The mind is always, for me at least at this point in time, it's not consistently sticking to the awareness part.

You know, it goes into the egoic tendencies to, oh, there is still an identity game. I want to play out of it. And that comes from a lot of, I think I was talking with my friend about this, it comes from a lot of, conditioning, right? So with practice, I think it becomes a smoother transition. For example, I think two months back, we had our first podcast and I was nervous as heck. Like for five minutes, I think my friend also said for 15 minutes, I think I took time to settle in and and it changed, change, changed. I think two episodes back, it was three minutes of nervousness, two minutes. Now it's like 10 seconds before, just before I click the link. Hopefully I'll get to the point where.

where I can click the link and be like, yep, George, just a moment of nervousness, right? So I feel like it's always going to be there. It's about how soon you come back to what is reality for you. And it goes without saying that we create our own reality. Yeah, it's a great point. What is the hang up then? Like, why do you think so many of us? And I think everyone goes through this in their life at some point in time, but what is this hanging on then?

Like, is it this inability to understand that you're both the subject and the object? Or is it sort of this guilty feeling for objectifying people? Or is it maybe a sort of empowerment for being a certain way? Like, what do you, why is it that we, some of us live our life around this relationship? do we not know another way? Is there not another way to do it? Yes, I definitely think so until we know that is a better option, we simply don't know about it, right? So it's quite hard to imagine that something else exist, right? It's like, what are the words that you know? I'm talking English, right? Maybe there are one or two new words that I say, which you do not know.

you're not going to perceive it. So in that sense, you're going to perceive all the words you know and you're going to think that, oh, I understand everything this person is saying. But the moment you come across a word that has caught your attention, right, let's say outside on a newspaper or when you're meditating or when you're taking time to understand there is a little bit the opposite way. I only know a little bit there is always so much to not know.

Right? When you get to that word and you realize, at least I have realized, within the 48 hours, you'll hear that word again. And it's like, wait, is it synchronously happening or is it always existing and my perception has attuned to that, right? So when we don't know, we think we know everything. Once we explore that new part of, there is something new. And then we are always in a, so there is also need to be a healthy balance, right?

Suppose if I'm talking and you're consistently questioning, wait, is he adding any new word that I'm not aware of? now you made me started thinking, right? That balance between that and I should also be able to give that leeway of, give myself the freedom of doubt that, no, I am understanding him so that I can listen. You know what I mean? You can't just completely hear stuff, neither you can consistently think with what's happening. Right?

I think I drifted a bit, but this reminds me of what Eckhart told Sesey. on his talks, right? He talks with people and he just says some. So I am talking, you're listening, but you're not consciously processing every single word. Like, you're not doing it. There is a flow to this and you're just understanding, right? And that's the beauty of it.

We don't take a step back to like, oh, I have to listen to this. Listening is such a hard thing, right? We don't do that. At least hearing, we don't do that. Listening is another aspect where you're paying attention. right? So, yeah, as I said, I'm just gibberish with all these things because it's very, it comes as a random set of thoughts and to put it into words, it's just difficult. And to your question of subject and object, it goes back to this thing. The whole reason I mentioned that if we don't know something, we are not going to look for it is because the whole idea of subject and object is created by a subjective mind. So when we get out of it, I don't think these. labels work anymore.

Yeah, I think that's where we are right now. I think that we are working our way towards the end of labeling. Because it is these labels. It is these labels that have pigeonholed us into small-mindedness. It is these labels that have taken from us our imagination. It is the label of conditioning that has allowed us to exist, which is a great thing, but exist on a plane that to exist in a container that no longer can hold us. And I really feel we're on the cusp of, and this is just me kind of spitballing too,

but I think we're on the cusp of fundamentally changing our language. And I only speak two languages, and I know you speak, how many languages do you speak, Ranga? I speak two languages too. One is my mother tongue Tamil and one is English. I learned India a bit, but I understand a little bit. But mostly two languages, yeah. Okay, so it's the languages that condition us. You know, like I have my little daughter, Sky, you know, when she was little and you got her on your knee and you're bouncing and things are coming around and you'll see like a, you see a bird fly by.

You're like, oh, that's a hummingbird. Like you're already, in some ways it's. beautiful because you're showing them the ways of the world and you're showing them how to to maneuver in this reality that we call it. But in the same way, every time you teach them something, you're stealing from them because you are not allowing them to come up. Like, this could be a magical flying beast with special powers that flap. Every time it flaps its wings, it creates the butterfly effect that puts a tornado in the side chilies over there, you know? But for them, you've just went, okay, let me just take this from you.

because you can't have that. You need to have these tools to navigate over here. So I kind of feel like the old paradigm, the old language, be it geopolitical or negotiating, like all these things are breaking down. And it comes back to the language and it comes back to the subject-object relationship. And I think we are emerging

into a new relationship with ourselves and in doing so with the world. That's kind of why I brought it up. It's quite amazing what you said about this, flying beast with magical powers, right? Yeah. You know the way we have to pump up that statement, like exaggerate it? Because before labeling, I feel that the connection is so defined, so mystical.

It's nice, right? It's simple connection, right? A tree is a tree. It's just not labeled. It doesn't have to have a superpower of getting uprooted, going, being the tree that is living through eternal. But because we add these labels, we need to. use words such as from the mystical side, like mythical side or a fictional side to make that

mind expand and see that there is something that lies beyond our normal perception, right? But you and I are going to fail miserably because it's so hard. It's really hard. It took me a lot of time to understand how a kid being given labels, it's going to restrict the view, right? because I have lived in a life of labels for so long, you know, again, it seems like there is no other way to live. I mean,

this is what has aided survival for so long. This is what has kept the food on our plates and, you know, made the ends meet and, you know, generations have been furthering. So maybe this is it. This is the only way to do it, right? And then there is a whole,

another philosophical idea of, like, what is my purpose here. That breaks all these things. My question goes back to when, how do we ask that? We do give platforms for the kids. When I say platforms, the labels,

the meanings, the way of life, I think it's quite essential for the kid to be able to survive or navigate. But eventually, I think as human, we all get to that same part

of being frustrated with not being content with the external world. I think sooner or later, or as Buddhism says in reincarnations, over course of lifetimes, there comes a point where like, man, I feel like I've done this, right? I always get this feeling. I do not believe in reincarnation the way it is said, but there is always this feeling that I do not have the urge to, you know, have a family or have kids and, you know, there is another person, you, you know, we still have conversations. And you have a kid. Doesn't mean I stop talking to you or does it mean like, is it the only way to live? There is no one particular way to live.

So what I'm getting to is that particular point where I feel like I have done this, so I don't want to do this. Right. But where does the questioning start? I think that's where we go back to every single time. Where does the questioning start? The question does come within, like what, what made? you try all these psychedilics it might have started as curiosity or even as paul said right uh in the rave or the party setting it starts right uh but how is it happening to you right like for example

i wouldn't have imagined growing up in india not having uh accustomed to any kind of uh cannabis is a demonized drug in india right and alcohol is also the same so i'm not tried anything until 21 22 i i I didn't plan to come to Canada, right? Things just happened. There is the sense that I submitted the application. I applied the work permit. I applied this. These are, you know, namesick.

It's like clicking the stream yard link to go online. But that's all I do. After that, everything that happens is a very natural process, right? But how does this happen? Right? Why me? Why do I get the chance to ask this question? and I felt like that question has helped me liberate on so many friends where so many friends

where the things that I've been bothered about, I just realize I don't have to be bothered about. But I still see people being bothered about that. So my question comes to why me, right? So in that thinking mind, that comes, subject object, right? Subjectively, why am I experiencing something? and it also feels like cheating I think I tell you every single time

the labels have convinced you a life of present life of survival I don't think it's a life of being alive what do you think can you

try to help me flush that out the question is why why me is that the basic question like what was the very last question you would said do you want me to explain why i have that thing of why me it's more so that it also comes from attachment to other people let's say my dad or

mom right like most of the time i think two years after my psychedelics i spent time talking to them regularly trying to trying to change you know right see you're you're living in a way again it all comes from judgmental mind again the subjective judgmental mind so you have to forgive that for a part, but it comes that you're living this miserable life, right? Like, being told that this is what you're supposed to do at this age. Now that you have retired, people are telling that, oh, don't work anymore or this is the time to start doing traditional things, start becoming more religious, right? That's the only way that is all you can do right now is think of God.

I agree, but not the God that we created, the God that created us, right? That's the distinction. But the point I'm trying to say is, so for the two years, each time I spend time talking, there'll be like ups and downs. And sometimes it feels like, oh, I think my dad got it. And two days later, the same patriarchal nature activities keep going on, right? And there is a point of, because of the attachment, there is a point of feeling miserable about it. Man, why don't these guys have a thought different from how they are like, why are they still thinking that? And then the question comes, wait, why am I thinking differently?

how did I get this set of situations in my life that put me in this place where I could question existence in itself, right? Because I haven't done that. I knew language, let's say, since I was five years old. Slowly I've been learning. And by 18 or 19, I was still able to be cohesive and put a different group of things in words, right, to communicate something. Yet there was no awareness in asking what am I doing here. So how did that happen? Change from that to,

oh, I need to ask this question and eventually go on to this path of liberating myself. Man, I think that there's some form of projection there. Like I feel like we're trying, because I feel the same way. I often ask myself that same question. Like, why me? And you know what? Like, I remember this is a similar road, but a little bit of a detour. But we're going to get to the, I think we're going to just take a little side trip around.

There was a while back, about a year and a half ago, where I had taken like 75 milligrams of four ACOD DMT. And I remember, like, I was playing with it, you know, for a couple weeks. And then I'm like, I'm going to go big. And I came home, I had come home from work and I was fasting all day. And I talked to my wife a little bit, you know, and I didn't have like any response. And I had taken it. And within five minutes, I'm like, oh, my God, I can already feel this. This is going to be strong.

Uh-oh. You get that feeling like, okay. And I'm still in the middle of this conversation with my wife. And I'm like, love, I'm going to take a shower. You know, I've just taken this. It's going to hit me pretty hard. He's like, oh, okay, whatever. And so I remember in my mind thinking, like, wow, what do I want to learn?

Like, if I could ask any questions. question, like, what would it be? And I thought to myself that the answer to that question that I wanted to ask was, I want to know why. And I had kind of left it in general. I was like, I want to know why the world works the way it is. I want to know why I am in the position I am. I want to know why me. And I remember laying in the bathtub and I closed my eyes and then I just saw all these different flashing like just kids dying and war and like these horrible images you know and I was like I do not want to know why anymore and I heard this voice call out to me like it's too late now I'm like oh man I remember just laying in the bathtub like scared like why did I just hear a voice why am I seeing

these images you know and I like to this day I still have a little bit of problems trying to integrate exactly what that was. However, I think the question to why me is because you asked, you know, because you walked up to the cliff and you said, hey, what is this? You know, and there's some, whether it's the world, it's God or Buddha or Gaia or another dimension of yourself, or you calling to yourself from another dimension, if you ask, then the answers begin to show themselves to you. The pathway opens up. When you're ready, the guru or the man or the teacher shows up. And so I think just formulating that question in your mind, why me is the answer to that question, because you've chosen this. Because on some level,

you have decided that you are the person who should know this. And maybe that means you become a teacher. Maybe that means you end up in a mental hospital. Or maybe that means that you sell all your stuff and you move to a small island or you leave everything you've ever known and move to Canada. Like maybe that's why. You know, maybe that part of Canada, maybe this other part of the world is where you're supposed to be because you're supposed to influence a young man or a young woman that you'll never even know that you influence.

but I think the answer to why me is, is a subjective one, but you know, you're definitely the object of why me, but the subjective answers are there. That was amazing. That was quite nice. So I followed you until the point you said,

my higher self, right? That's where I have a differing opinion where, where there is only one higher self, whereas there's just one consciousness is behind this and we all reach the same state of awareness and there is no, the boundary is dissolve and you realize that it is just one as many and many as one, right? And then the question still stays.

Because if you give it explanation saying that my higher self, right? Like you have your own branch sitting in your higher dimension, right? Again, it comes from boundaries. Again, it's a very subjective answer, I believe. all my questions also comes from a very subjective mindset because on psychedelics right or maybe eventually with meditation there comes a point of the self-dissolving so when that happens along with that course the question as well why me because there is no you in that part but subjectively when we are talking about this this question comes and if I'm going to choose a different

perspective to what you said and not consider there is an individual higher self for each of us, but there is just one consciousness, right, one divine self behind this. And the question still remains, why me? It could have been someone. It could have been anyone, right? Like, it could be that billions of people are existing, right? And millions of people are getting help from the medicine. But subjectively the question comes. objectively from science point, there is a deeper understanding of the cause and effect, right? When I keep thinking of everything happening in terms of just domino effect, and that is literally, it's very peaceful for me to see it from that way because my anger with people or culture or religion, right,

dissolves completely, or at least it's an effort to dissolve completely. because the same way I ask why me, maybe if I consider myself I'm making better choices with my life, given my transitions, the people that I'm judging about just don't know better, right? And it's based on cause and effect. They were taught this. Based on this causes,

they are creating this effect, which are becoming causes for something else, right? And then they become, this is the whole domino effect that is going on. So it's helpful that way. As I said, I'm just rambling all these because this is where my mind is going from, right, jumping from this side to that side. And as I say, it's the pendulum for me. I see it as a journey.

It's like whenever it comes to the balance, I enjoy the calmness and it goes to polarities. And again, we were my friend and I were talking about how the books Ramdas wrote. It took me two, three years to understand what it meant. like one of the lines was hippie create police and police create hippies. I didn't understand it until this suddenly I was sitting, oh, wait, I am being the police to my dad and I'm being the hippie to my dad as well. Whenever he's policing me, I'm trying to be rebellious and whenever he's being, you know, culturally constrained. I try to be this, oh no, you break out of it, you know. And it's liberating.

And I feel like it's on some level, I think we were talking about labels the other day in the group, right? Labels can be harmful again, just like anything else. It's such a magical tool, right? To keep it there. And again, sorry for jumping, but how do we jump from this part to having our mindset be detached those labels? I think that's what our important part is.

Object, object, these definitions can exist. I can call you a bastard. You can call me a motherfucker. It doesn't matter. How much are we going to get attached to that idea? Oh, how dare he talk about this? You know, maybe this is not the right space to do it. So how do we get detached from that idea so that, yeah, we can say all we want to say.

It's for fun. Well, you know, my parents got divorced when I was younger. So I guess technically I'm a bastard. And my wife has kids, so I'm technically a motherfucker as well. So I see your labels and I thank you. It's beautiful. I told my partner she was calling her dad, motherfucker,

and it's like, that's the perfect person you can call. Because like, that is literally 100% true. Right? And nothing to be said about it. It's like, it's just a fact.

Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, so let me, our good friend Ben has this to say. He says, what we know is encapsulated in a symphony of vibration encoded in sequences.

See, this is why I love Ben. Like, no one else would break it down like this. Interpret it through a massive parallel processing unit, we dub a brain. Our shared ability through awareness allows us to verify, to know, but not absolutely, but subjectively, even in objective observations. Now, I see a systems guy here. I see a guy speaking in the labels of a system, and he's really elegant in what he says.

And if I take what he says and I take your question of why me, and then I also add in your idea of us being one consciousness, I don't think there can be, if we're one consciousness, there is no me. Maybe the question is why we or why us. Because if there's one consciousness, then you and I are just a manifestation, a thought in the mind of God, and, you know, some sort of thought that's working its way through the prefrontal cortex trying to manifest itself in the world. So maybe the might the question be why us? And if you want to answer to that question, it would just be looking at that person next to you trying to fix it.

figure out who you are. How about I just ask you one question here because I want you to further that explanation. Okay. When you say us, right? Why ask that question? Again, this question would be completely meaningless without a dem. Hmm. If you.

So does why? What's the meaning of the word asks if there are no them? What's the meaning of darkness and light when there is just only lightness, right? like what's the sound of one hand what's the sound of one hand clapping right exactly I cut you up it's because

maybe us without them is wholeness maybe that's what we're trying to achieve maybe we can have us without them maybe that's the problem that we have is that there's too much of us and them and that if we just had if it was just us then we'd have just

You know, I've loved your wordplay for the time that I've listened to you. I've told you, his story is my favorite way to say things to people now. You know, the grain of salt story, right? Yeah, continue. What's the grain of salt story? Tell me. No, the grain of salt and when people are saying history to people, take it with a grain of salt. which is his story, right?

Yes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's true. It's, I see, and that gets me to the idea, back to language. There's so much in the etymology, there's so much in every word that just flies by, flies by over my head so much.

I think this is, this is one reason I am where I am, because when I was little, I always got caught up in words. And people couldn't even finish a sentence. And I'd be like, wait, wait, what does that mean? Are you saying this? Or are you saying that? Why is this word have two words in it like that?

Why is it his story? I don't want, what about our story? You know, and the people would just be like, what teachers would just be like, George, you're disrupting the class. And it's an honest question, you know. And maybe it wasn't even something like history or history, but it was just small things that I didn't understand. And I always got somewhat penalized for it.

And, you know, I just could. And to this day when I hear words, like I have to stop and stare at the person because I'm like, what are they telling me? Are they telling me this thing on a frontal level that just comes out that they're talking about, you know, who they are? Or are they telling me that they've been abused? You know, like, because if you just, if you listen to what people tell you, it's somewhat frightening. people are very honest and it comes out with just this this just explosion of sound

but if you have the patience to sift through the sound you can see what they're trying to say and like just listen to that like try and see what people are saying use your eyes to see their words and like that itself is a way of communicating more effectively And think about how many of these little idiosyncrasies there are, like, oh, I see what you're saying.

Or, you know, there's all these interplay between the senses and language. And so on some level, I feel that touches the subject-object relationship. But, you know, I think that there's more to it. Maybe, maybe like the observer, maybe it's like an atom or something. and there's all these things circling around it. I don't know, I don't have a working model for it yet, but it blows my mind and there's something there. And sometimes I think that if we could add some sort of honorifics onto our language,

like, you know, the same way that we have a prefix in a suffix to denote, you know, before and after, what if we had like a new prefix, like if you put an X in front of every word that denotes honesty, that means that I know we're talking in a language that cannot be bullshaded. Like that would do away with contract law forever. Like, oh, he's speaking in wrong before. That means he's being honest, you know. In the same way, like, why can't you have a prefix or a suffix that says, I'm talking in sarcasm?

And then like, you know, you could change the language that we speak by adding a word in front of another word. And it would do away with the ambiguity of language. What do you think? Let's do it. Let's just set that up. Nah, I don't think I'm participating in these games of language creation anymore because I've, have you seen the movie invention of lying? Mm-mm.

I have not. It's quite nice where everyone is honest, that they don't know what lying is, right? So they show you, they set the premise of the movie, you know, people are meeting for dates and like, see, you're ugly. I'm not going to get turned on by you. So let me cancel the date because this is not going to work, right? Things like that and to the point where just this one person has a thought of like a computer stops failing. And he wants to withdraw some money.

She asks how much is there in your account? And he says, you know, wait, I need 500, but I only have 200. So it clicks. And he says that amount. And the computer starts working. But since people don't know what lying means, she doesn't trust the computer. She trusts the human's word, right? And I kind of, kind of spoiled it for you, but it's still a good movie that you can watch.

But my question from there is, what if language was created for that intent only, right? What if people thought, which is going to be honest, right? What if you're just supposed to be honest? like rather than seeing it as a way, sorry. No, it's good. Keep going. I got you. What I, I didn't lose a chain of thought this time.

Like I usually do, it was, it is more that, how do I put this? Because if I feel like whenever I have tried to use these words in a different way than how I actually feel, it was towards fulfilling a desire or avoid you know repercussions because of fear right I think goes back to the base of what Buddhism says cravings and aversions right

and I feel like I just see life very simpler in that way where I'm either trying to lie my way through to get something done or to avoid something right but it's because I took this vocal ability for granted right

I had no respect for it I didn't see it as a, it's a great gift to be able to, you know, where is this thought process happening? Where is this part that's happening, you know, in your head? As Benjamin says, it's all the parallel processing unit which we dubbed as brain for sure. Again, it's happening in a dimension. As you say, when you use idiosyncrasies, like, I see what you're saying. Like, wait, where are you seeing this? Right?

Where is that? I want to also see it. Right. So I feel like when I focus on that area of what's happening and I'm trying to put this in manifest form, in this manifest world, in an interaction with another being, right? So at that point, if I'm trying to see this as a gift, all I can do is be honest with what's happening. Because even your 100% honesty is a very rough approach. of your internal structure. So the moment you even begin to lie your 180 degree on the opposite side of your path that you should be going. You know, so if you want to put a bunch of words with X, it's a matter of time before we start misusing it. Right? Because the underlying structure I feel like the world is operating on. I don't want to go into detail about it, at least the way that I have been convinced of this capitalistic model of more better or growth or you know eventual growth right it is kind of that model and also the

part where the compromise between helping for the future versus the present so these are questions that i keep battling right so how does this this translate to the part is that my fundamental thinking of the brain was in a way very egoically selfish now i say it is selfish In a sense that I want to find out where is the selfish hiding. Did I lose you there? I'm just trying to figure out where the selfishness hides in me. 75 MG. 75 MG?

75 Migms. Yeah. It'll come out. How did you try the maximum? I think I've tried as 40 and it was so good. I end up with a neck. problem the next day because I do a lot of headband you for songs. But I can't think of more than 40, you know.

It's like, so when I, I think you were talking with Jason about your 75 milligram and I was like, George, cool, man. I see why you want to order two, three grams. I order like 500 MG at once. I see why you want to order three grams at one. But, okay, let's just jump from that. Forget selfishness and everything.

I'm very curious because you mentioned sound if I'm G right so compared to your lower doses right how much do you think was there a conscious presence like or egoic presence right now do you have a difference do you want to define what would it be your egoic thing does is ego a bad word for you or a neutral word how do you see ego yeah let's try to define what ego is so we can have this conversation yes I think ego is the narrowing

of your view so that I think that ego is the individual having a narrow view so that it only encompasses itself. And so that would be pure ego. I think on a daily basis, most people are running like 50-50. You know, you have the ability to care about your family and want to have great conversations and want to help people. And hopefully most people do that. Hopefully most people wake up and want to make everyone around them better.

However, like you said, we are selfish in that we must survive. We must have, you know, we get back to Maslow's hierarchy of needs and food and shelter. So I would say that the ego is the 50% that looks out for number one. Would you agree with that? Would you want to change that in any sort of way? Growing up, I think I don't know if I've mentioned you. ego in India at least are the terms that I have learned was related to having an attitude towards things or having the show off or like you know convincing people that it's more of a status game right

so I realized my first thing was it was not the actual definition of ego because ego was used in many fields where it was seen as a neutral thing right it took me time to come to that thing but at least I dismantled the definitions that were given to me and I started approaching this with a different view. So again, I bring Randhas here because I love the way he defines things in that sense is that ego is just a vehicle through which the senses are interacting and relates to the external world. Okay, I like that. Right. And if you see that, again, just about anything, right, it's a tool. Right.

and ego in at least by personal experience does not coexist within myself. I do not want to use words of, let's not involve any other being. Let's just be you. You could still be selfish and selfless. If it's just you too, it's just funny that way. Like what are you going to be selfless about? It's just funny that way. But let's say you're the last person or the earth and let's not involve family, nothing.

So in that sense, you could still operate on. an egoic sense and you can operate on an awareness sense. So that's how I see it. So ego doesn't come down to letting go of our selfish thoughts because for me ego also encompasses all fear-based actions. I see ego as an autonomous entity that is operating to survive, right? Sometimes how I see is the survival rate of the fear of death. I see that as the ego. It keeps changing. Sometimes I see it's just this, you know, how traffic jams exist. One car is not a traffic jam.

It's like thousands of cars and traffic jam is this illusion that's happening, right? When you actually caught in a traffic jam, for you, it's just a car before you. The traffic jam is the concept when thousands of cars interact, right? People, I think one of the psychologists used this as an analogy to define consciousness. Each sense alone is something, but they interact. in a very innumerable number of connections happen and then this self-awareness or ego, right? These all originate from the same place of interactions of senses I feel like.

Okay. I see the relevance between your thing and mind. It's definitely that egoic as a selfishness tendency because I feel like it's that survival. is there. Yes, I agree. Right. So in that sense, let's continue to the part where, if you're also seeing ego as a neutral term, right? So how would you define with your lower doses to medium doses to higher doses, how would you define what was happening differently between each of these trips? Okay. So I think that a lower dose, and we're just talking about for ACO DMT or

we talking about psilocybin in general? It could be any drug. I love all drugs. Yeah. All of them? You love all of them? I don't know if you love all of them. Like, there's some bad ones.

Look at you. Yes, too. I've tried, I've tried Coke. And I would say, it's not something I want to do because I have a curing machine. I'll just make two cups of coffee. You know what I mean. So, yeah, probably not all drugs, all psychilics, let's say. I haven't tried.

So let's just come to LSD and psilocybin. So you can choose the drug that you want to talk about. Real fast, I've always thought it would be funny if someone asked Sigmund Freud about his cocaine problem. And then he just said, sometimes a line of Coke is just a line of Coke. That would be funny. Okay.

So I think that on a lower dose level of psychedelics, at least for me, I would say that anything, between a micro dose and an eighth, so three and a half grand, is a really good thinking dose. It allows you to have full control over your thoughts, but see the world in a different way. It allows you to see everything around you with fresh eyes, if that kind of. to make sense. And then if I take a higher dose, once I start getting up into a higher threshold, say somewhere between three and a half and seven grams, I think that that is the beginning

of witnessing the slowdown of the ego as we described it. I think at that point in time, you begin to think, I think at that point in time, you're going to see a more wholeness at that level. And the more that I've done, the bigger doses, until recently, between, I would say around 15 grams, or maybe like 55 grams, of 4 ACODMT, I was under the impression that there was some sort of second plane.

And what I mean by a second plane was that between seven grams and like 13 grams, things got foggy for me. Like it would be really intense. And, you know, I would have some really deep thoughts, but I could never bring anything back. I once heard it said that, you know, these big doses of psychedelics is like, setting sail onto the sea of chaos and you are whisked out into the middle of this chaotic ocean and waves are crashing all over you and you try and throw out your net and let it sink to the bottom and in the midst of this chaos as you're coming back you pull up your net and hopefully you can bring back an idea that you can share with the tribe but I found between seven and

like 13 grams that the net doesn't go deep enough or the it's not strong enough and the idea or the substance you want to bring back rips through that net so once you start hitting at least for me like 15 and higher I think that that's when you begin to pierce the veil like I think that that is when you begin to get the clarity of the idea that can change you as a person forever. You can catch glimpses of the idea. You can see it out of the corner of your eye. You know, like those little floaters you have in your eye, like if you look and you're like, oh, there's something moving, you know, but it's just like a little scratch on your eye. That is psychedelics from zero to 14 grams. It's like a floater in your eye. But once you start hitting the higher doses,

And once you hit the higher doses, the clarity becomes congruent with the idea. And you can bring it back and you can talk about it. The trick is that you're not in your right mind. And I mean that, you know, me in words. Like, you're not in your right mind. In fact, you know what? You might be in your right mind. You might be in the part of your mind.

mind that has all the concepts. You might be in the part of your mind where all the resource material, where the raw data is formed. And that's why you can go in there and search it. It's like John Searle's Chinese room when they talk about a computer. Like the computer will go, you ask a computer a question. It'll go into its database and find what you're looking for and bring it back to you. But it's more like you going into that room and looking for stuff. and being like, you know, you can ask someone to go get something for you, but the chance of the probably going to grab the wrong color or the wrong thing. But if you go in that room, you can really find what you're looking for.

So I think at these higher doses, you know, you come back with these ideas. But the problem is, like, it's so clear. It's so crystal clear to you. And I'll give you an example. So I had recently done a dose of like 18 grams on these albino penis nbis. And I just, I came to this conclusion, like, I remember coming down and looking at my library. And for some reason, I was looking around, I had like the Bible out. And I'm like, dude, Jesus was totally an alien.

He's totally an alien. And you know what? I'm an alien. And now it all makes sense to me. And like, I'm like, God damn it. How did I not know this? And then I thought to myself, you know, it freaked me out because I'm like, okay, I get it. I'm an alien.

Jesus was an alien. And I see all these other people that are aliens. And I'm like, man. And it freaked me out like for 10 minutes. I just laid on the ground like, holy shit, I'm an alien. I'm a fucking alien, man. This is crazy. And then I thought like, people need to know this.

Like what would happen? And this is, this is balls deep in this trip. I'm like, what would happen if everybody realized that we're aliens, man? The world will go crazy. Like, that's probably why they're not telling everybody. You know? And so, but it was so, it was clear to me as two and two. plus four. Like I knew it without a doubt, without a doubt. And so when I came back down from that

trip, I came to the idea of like, wow, this is what it must be like for some people in psychiatric hospitals that believe wholeheartedly that they are the second coming of Jesus. And I get it. Like I could totally empathize with someone who is in their own mind, the Messiah, and totally believe it 100%. Like, I understand what that's like. And like, it's a powerful thing to think about. Like, wow, these people, it's not that they're crazy. It's that it's just a different reality.

And if more people believed it, then it would be the reality. The mainstream reality. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that that, I'm not sure if that answered your question as far as to the different doses and the beings in each. ego, but I think at the higher doses, the idea of ego no longer exist. And I think that even at doses up to like 14 grams, I don't think there's an ego death. I don't think ego death really

begins to happen until you hit these higher doses where you are actually in another reality. Before I start, you had so much to say, and it was very nice. I wanted to ask, what would your translation be between, you know, a particular dosage of shrooms and a particular dose of LSD? How do you compare? I know that they are totally different, totally different the way things happen. Yet on some level of, let's say, achieving ego death, right? What would your rough translation be? This is a little trickier for me because I haven't done LSD for a while. I think the most I've ever done was I think I ate a 10 strip one time and is that 100 MCG in one? I think so, yeah.

Yeah, it was, a thousand. Yeah, well, here's the story. Here's kind of a funny story. So we were to, I went to Disneyland and we had an awesome Volkswagen bus. And I had planned this trip and there was going to be like 20 of us that were all going to Disneyland. And so I was the guy that could score the acid. So I had scored like, I don't know, I think I had scored like 40 hits or something like that. Okay, you know, I'll get like two for everybody or something like that. And then by the time the trip came up, it was me, my sister,

her friend, me, Craig, and Travis. So there were six of us. And we get out and we all took like two before we got there. And I, I, I, I brought up, if you have 40 hits of acid, you're probably going to bring them, right? I don't know why I brought them, but I brought them. And so we took two and then on, right an hour before we got there, because we wanted it to kick in when we parked. And so we get out of the van and my friends are like, look, man, we should just take two more because we're going to be here all day.

Okay, so now we're at four, right? And we're starting to feel pretty good and we're cruising around. And we get to Splash Mountain. which is this, it's like a waterlog ride. And I remember, yeah. And so we're in line and, you know, about two hours in. And like, you know, things are getting pretty good. I'm starting to have a little bit of trouble talking.

Like my words are kind of coming out like jumbled. Like, Josh, Bajarsen, you know, what the fuck did that guy say? I'm like, oh, sorry. You know, and we're having a good time. And then we go on, we go on Splash Mountain. and we get into this big water fight. Hey, everybody, blah, la la la. We're fighting, fighting, playing.

And we get off. And I'm like, I got to pee. So I go to the bathroom. And I realize I'm totally drenched in water. And I have like a ton of hits in my pocket. And I'm like, dude, I'm covered in water. And this LSD is in my pocket. It's probably going to get into my skin.

I should probably just eat them. And so at that point in time, I called everybody over. And we divvied up, you know, we divvied up whatever I had in my pocket. I don't know if I had brought 40 with me, but I know it was about 10 that I ate that day because I ended up eating another six, I think.

If I don't give, I'm gonna fucking, this is all going in my body if I don't give them away or eat them. And it was in my pants pocket. Maybe it wouldn't have, but I remember, you know,

I wasn't really in my right mind. So, yeah, that day was, it was uncontrollable. And then from, I remember walking around Disneyland and there was this guy, his name was Farley and he was playing like the violin,

he was singing songs and like, it was just so crazy. I mean, it's the happiest place on earth. And that day, I think it was extra happy. You know, but I guess that's a roundabout way of saying,

on the topic of comparing, you know, LSD high doses to different doses of psilocybin or 4 ACODMT, it's not a real fair comparison because I was out and about. I'm at Disneyland. I'm with a group of people where the big doses I have done here were by myself.

One more story about Disneyland coming back. So, you know, we had got there when it opened and we left at 10 after we watched Fantasia and stuff. And we go back to my van and we're smoking some bowls. And, you know, I'm coming down, but like, I'm still pretty fucked up, man. And I remember, like, I lived in San Diego and Disneyland's in Los Angeles. So it's about an hour and 45 minutes. And I remember driving in my van, like, Like at 11.30 at night coming down the freeway,

I had a bright orange Volkswagen van with a grateful dead sticker on the back. And like, you know, obviously we have a bunch of weed with us because you're going to have to have weed if you're doing LSD. Or at least that was my motif back then. And so we were driving in my van and like we just smoked a joint. And like, you know, I'm doing, I don't know, 55 because that's what you do in a Volkswagen van. And I look back in my rear view mirror and I can see like my two friends. friends are kind of passed out.

And then my sister and her friend are like sitting in the backseat kind of chit chatting a little bit. And we had we had the doors going and it was just like break on through to the other side. We're jamming. And I look in my rear view mirror and like I see a fucking cop car behind me. And I'm like, oh, Jesus Christ, this is not good. And I'm in a van, you know, with a grateful dead sticker on the back at 1130 at night. You know, and I'm like, dude, this guy's totally going to pull me over. So I'm driving and I look over to the side and there's another car like there's no one on the freeway except me the cop behind me and then there's a car in the slow lane going the exact same speed as me.

I'm like what the fuck is this? This is so crazy. And I'm like do I tell the people behind me that there's a cop? I'm like I probably shouldn't tell them anything. He's going to freak out and you go fuck up my driving. Yeah. Meanwhile, Jim Morrison just singing and I'm like, okay, well, I don't know what's going to happen. and the cop comes up real close and it seemed like 20 minutes

it was probably five minutes but like I'm just driving and then like the cop throws his lights on and I'm like I'm fucked and I'm like all right well I gotta wait for this car to get over and so you know like then the cop goes be

like I turn on my my signal to get over because I'm gonna get pulled over and then the cop gets behind the other guy and pulls him over and I just kept going And I was like, dude, no way. And I'm like, I'm like, hey, you guys see that? And they're like, see what?

You know, but it was, it was a, it was a weird intervention there. But thank you for letting me share that story. It's been a long time since I've got to share that story. And it was a really fun time for me. I don't know high doses. It's difficult to compare the two. I think that the loss of language on LSD is something that is definitely more apt to that. times on high doses of LSD, be it at five or 10, like you can't even talk. Like, I could not

form any words at all. I could not talk to you. I could make noises, but it would be complete gibberish. And, you know, it seems a much more abrasive, a much more, you know, threatening force to me where it's like, dude, you're going to, I just being, having my head pushed up against a wall. So it felt to me like there was a real, real changes. going on that were beyond my control. And you're talking about LSD. LSD, yeah. I see.

Yeah. And I think that the, the four ACODMT or any particular types of derivatives from the ones I have done, they seem to work with you in a way that is more friendly. You know, so I think that maybe the visuals on some level seem to be a little bit less organic on LSD, they seem to be a little bit more, a little bit more harsh, I guess, I would say, and not as geometrically friendly in the way that it treats you in your body and the way you see things. But I also think that maybe the boundaries are ripped away in a way not so much on mushrooms

or on 40sude MT. What is your take on the difference? How have you balanced the difference? It was so nice I loved listening to you. You know, it was nice. I'd add like, I didn't have anything to share. So let's start from the part where you said about mushrooms and then I'll go to LSD.

Your zero to 14 grams reminds me of the lyrics from comfortably numb. When I was a child, I got a fleeting glimpse. I turned to look at the corner of my eye. And, you know, it was gone and the child has grown and the dream has died. It's so beautiful. Like, I feel like that is true. Dosage-wise, though, it differs. It differs for different people, I think.

I have had, again, it's all subjective experiences. But for me, what felt like a really breakthrough has happened as small as 200 to 300 MCG of acid. And 300 is the maximum. that I've tried. And I felt LSD was much more liberating. So I had, I don't know if you looked at my face. I had this shocking response to how you were saying about psilocybin was gentler than LSD, which LSD was ripping apart.

I was like, I feel like I hated my concept so much that when it tripped it out, I was like, man, thank goodness. Because I have had bad trips in psilocybin. You know, that is a new research that is going on, which focuses on all your insights that you get on psychedelics are not true. So after you have an aha moment, it's very important to, you know, question it. You're not going to lose anything out of it. There is not going to be any loss of magic from it, right?

So question it. You have nothing to lose. And I feel like that is just a prerequisite for integration, right? But the reason I said that is because I've had, let's say, 3.5 grams of golden peaches now that I have read about potency and stains and I don't think it wasn't as much compared to let's say it would be 2 grams of penis envy that's what I found in Google

but what it did was it made me really introspective yet I felt like with psilocybin sometimes a guide and an intention is much more necessary than LSD because as you're it's, I wouldn't say it's gentler, but it's very smoother in breaking these barriers. It doesn't rip apart right LSD. But one of the side problems of this barriers slowly getting removed is that I felt like I

got landed in one of those barriers and became obsessive over a thought. You know, and the fear thought that was ruling my life two years back was, oh man, I've graduated. Now I need to find a job. So I'm sitting at 11.30 p.m. in my room, you know, and I was, and I wasn't comfortable and confident enough to say that I was using psychedelics, not even to my friends. So my friend is staying in the next room and he came and he's like, I don't sleep until 2 a.m. usually. So he comes in at 11.30, he sees me curled up in the bed. It's like, what are you doing? I'm like, nothing. I am not feeling good. You know, and he left.

And I'm like, that, that was the initial greatest trigger that sent me into the spiraling bad trip. because like, dude, I'm in the state of awareness and I'm still not confident enough. What's fucking wrong with me? Right? And why couldn't I be honest? Is it because I tripped last week also? Am I like because at the time what I was reading was, oh, you need to space it out and you need to give space between trips. And again, until you have your own personal exploration, you're going to have a basic, you know, flexible guidebook on which you're going to follow.

So those judgmental was there. And I got landed in this barrier in my brain, you know, and I kept obsessing over like, maybe I should do something, maybe I should do something, maybe I should do something, right? And I got terrified. I don't think I had shrooms for almost a year after that, right? During which LSD happened a couple of times and both of times, I think, 150 and 200 MCG respectively.

And they were very awakening in a sense where the ripping apart is so true, but it was so liberating because I simply couldn't make a mistake in getting lost in an obsessive thought. I simply didn't have the chance. Yeah, I lost the ability to speak along with it when they desired to speak as well. So silence seemed

beautiful. And it taught me a lot of things was like, wait, if I don't have a particular sense and if I do not know that a particular sense world exists, I wouldn't

no, I would be happy about it. You know what I mean? Like, on some level, we kind of... I'm so sorry. The other part of the discussion where you said about language and stuff at all, I think I started this discussion with you and I've been very curious for the last month.

So I think we should continue that part of discussion sometime. But it's what would deaf and blind people feel? Like, when we say language has these many things. So our deaf and blind people, as they come, do they not have problems they get caught into, you know, conceptual problems? Are they in a different consciousness of the mind, right, or a different awareness? Of course, they are going to be just because of how their senses are interacting. But leaving that alone, what LSD did was in some way, it stopped this normal senses of the world.

You know, how Silesia even you said it took you to the central processing area or the room where the data is handled in a raw form, which is quite true. With LSD, how do I even put it? What if I didn't have senses? Right? What would be left? And it was quite interesting. If I didn't have the senses, I'm not going to be obviously

able to explain that. But that's the part I was in. And compared to your experiences, it was vice versa, right? I found LSD should be so gentle. And this person, Randall, right, he's writing a book on psychedelics, and he was focusing on this one aspect. We do not have many people talking about LSD. So we want more people talking about LSD.

And I love that. And all these discussions, right, it's helpful. Your stories are amazing. Like, maybe next time I bought Penis NB a while back. It's sitting in my kitchen drawer and I don't have the guts to take five grams. I want to take it. And there's so much that's happening. within me there's this, you know, it's nice, this nervous feeling is nice, enjoyable, but

where does this come from? What am I nervous about? And when that is there, I feel like my work lies there. I want to find out what in my sober sense, I want to find out what this nervous feeling is, at least to a part where it is handleable, you know what I mean? Because I feel like I have gotten to this point with enough individual trips that it's not that I do not want. a guide but I feel like this this drug this medicine I'm interacting in a one-on-one and even at that point this one dies and that medicine one takes over and it's quite interesting there is no external don't seem to be I don't mean to seem to be rude but it's like at that point there is no help that can come from outside you know what I mean

yeah it just simply like literally there is no one outside that can because you're at that point where, fuck man, it's just you. It's only you. There is nothing else that's existing. Right. So because of that,

there is no convincing that, oh yeah, I can have a sitter and take it. I clearly cannot convince myself that even having one best sitter, even if I had my partner, you know, who I'm confident in speaking on my sober times,

if I add a sit, it still doesn't give me the confidence to, so hats off to you for doing 10 strips of I don't know if it is drama-based or curiosity-based or bad. It's the flag that comes from. It's not a place to question and label it. It's rather we just embrace it and, you know, enjoy it.

I don't know if it's magic or tragic. You know, I mean, I was with, I was with, I was a kid, man, and I was with my friends. And, you know, you're not in your 20s, in your late, in your early 20s, like you're not, your brain's not fully formed like this is a great idea no it's not that's probably not a good idea at all you probably you know but a lot of the times that's when you get your work done

and um you know I'm curious though if we can go back to your LSD trip and when your friend came in the room and you were in this state where you were questioning and that was Shums by the way sorry yeah okay so so so

do you think that maybe that particular experience may be affecting why you don't want to do high doses now? Is it that same feeling of like questioning that you were like, oh man, what is this? How come I'm, how come I don't have this job? Or how come this? Why am I acting this way? Is it that feeling of uncomfortableness that you, the fact that you told me that story means to me that you still hold that story with fondness in some way?

And you think that maybe it's that that particular experience that's that's maybe putting up a hand to say, wait a minute, I don't know if you should do this five grams. I love it when you call my bullshit, right? See, that's the problem that's sitting in the subconscious. And I definitely think it's the reason. Because if you were placing a couple of taps of acid now, I wouldn't have hesitation. I wouldn't have a bit of hesitation because of how it has been. with magic mushrooms I think there is a lot of work for myself to do in that area of subconscious where these fears are stemming and it has of course it has a lot to do with that particular

night and also maybe a couple more other times where I felt like so what LSD did was take away these concepts and you know throw it and I add these like this beautiful clay which is life and I can do whatever I want right yeah and as all religion says do not do something that is gonna that you don't want to be done onto yourself with that particular thing I go about doing anything and it seems fine right and what Shum's has done is sometimes played this game with me with respect to the concepts I add so my question is like it's very important for me to add those experiences again to see at what level I have subtler concepts that are holding me from, you know, being in the present moment.

So right now it becomes the bigger tool. I think that's all I want to mention because that's what it does. That's what the medicine does. Most people who are afraid of the medicine, it's just going to help them. It's just ripping the band-aid off. I truly believe that, right? Like, there is this book this person wrote and he has been marketing. It's nice psychedelics are for everyone, right?

Yeah. says in a very nice way. Cyclilics are not meant to be taken by everyone, but they are for everyone. It's beautiful, right? That subtle nuance, it's like contradicting statement put together. But there is an idea behind it. And I believe that and all the fear that stems is because of that unprocessed area, right? But I also feel having this experience, you know, when I see people with similar mindsets

that I have had three years back, I would prefer LSD before magic mushrooms, right? Because even with my partner, I saw that she had taken ACO DMT and her come down was introspective and more emotional. But if we both were talking about this and these emotional aspects were emotional blackmailing that was done by Indian families, right?

sure but shrooms gets you to that point where you're still emotional about it so there is no processing you're just playing that role it's not that it's bad you it doesn't take you that awareness that is watching this emotions arising right you get caught and i feel like i have got caught i feel like uja has got caught but lsd has ripped it apart like anything you know i love that word of you say it drips that thing once it's done when you re-reve-lawed it shrooms again now it is a even at places where you go into the so-called bad trip there is an underlying awareness to stick with it you know mostly there is the subtle resistance against it that magnifies it so yeah that that subtle resistance is acting in my day-to-day life and you're

a hundred percent right to call out on that and each time i see okay i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm gonna do this i'm gonna it's gonna be there and uh i think It's just with almost other things too. I add methyl esculent, right, mal fumarate. I think I told you I'll take it. I did not end up taking it. I fekin, I lost courage and I went back to acid. Who's amazing?

But that day I didn't take malfumerate. And then I met this friend and oh, man, I love this guy. Right? I love going to meditation because I meet a lot of psychedelic people there. It's great. And he has this box, right? And he has more analogs than any single website that I've seen on Canada, right? Canadian website.

So if you put together all these Canadian websites, the analogs are more. But this guy had this box and I loved it. And he has this empty capsules. And he's like, he has written tea and pee on top of the bottles, right? P for fentanylamine and tea for triptamine. And it's quite nice. He's like, what do you want to try? I think I love this guy.

Oh, yeah. It's great. And the conversations are amazing, so we can have him here. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I'd love that. Definitely. And so he chose this, he said, I have five MEO, MIPT. Have you tried that?

No, I have not. So I was like, I don't know if I want to do any five MEO now because I've heard that it's just, you know, direct. it's too much, right? But he said it's just 5 M-E-O-D-M-T, which is going to be smokable. There are so many 5 M-U compounds, M-I-P-T, D-I-P-T, P-I-P-T, and these things all come in H-CL or fume rate, and you can take it orally, right? And I was a little assistant, but, you know, this guy,

I like him, this conversation. If you were to recommend something, I would, of course, you know, go and try, right? And at that point, so I held that nervousness and I took it and it was mind-blowing. It was very tactile. It was very tactile. And I started seeing this neantic differences between the psych deluxe rate. Each one takes you, LSD takes me to void. If not processed properly, it can make you nihilistic.

Shumes, if not processed properly, can become very traumatic. And MIPT in that sense is not processed properly can make you, I don't know, sexually fault or something. But that's the beauty of it, right? That's why the set and setting is quite important. And I know your question was so totally different and I let my thoughts take me to wherever it's going. And so I'm curious about these new analogs yet coming back to your question, there is an underlying. nervousness. Yeah.

That's awesome. Losing the self. Losing the self. I feel like the ego creates the fear there because I think ego realizes there is an ego death. Because this ego has seen numerous number of times. I think there is just one ego. Just like one consciousness, there is just one ego.

And that ego has seen millions of psychedelic trips and maybe it has died in so many countries and so many indigenous people. And it's like, nope, not you. You got to live this life. Come on. And it generates fear. Yeah.

Yeah, which, you know, that's an awesome story. Thank you for sharing that. Like, I'm going to get, there's some things I want to get back to in there. If we just start at the end of what you said, you know, when you say that there's one ego, maybe there's like one love. And if you look at ego as a loving force, like, doesn't want you to get hurt. You know, I think that's a pretty good way to look at it, too. It's like this overbearing mother that's like, no, don't go back there. need to revisit that.

It's a, yeah, no, come on, it wasn't your fault, you know. It's just like this, this manifestation of love that is, that is, doesn't want you to get hurt. So it puts up these obstacles, you know, and on the topic of fear and psychedelics, I think if you are not, I think if you're not afraid, they're not approaching it in the right way. You're not doing the work. Like, you should get to spots where you're scared. Like, it's, it's, it's, it's having the courage to walk to the cliff where everyone jumps off and look down and be like, wow, these people kill themselves right here, you know?

Like, and it's, and once you've done it, like, so like the point where you took mushrooms and then you were, you got scared, like, that is you knowing the trail to suicide. Like, that's a lonely road, man. And like, yeah, a lot of people hear the stories about the rock where everyone jumped from. but only a handful of people can walk to the trailhead. And then only a few out of those people will walk down that trail. And now pretty soon, you're holding hands with the guy that might actually jump. And you know,

what are you doing there? Well, what the fuck am I here for? You know, like, am I going to kill myself? Like, you start having these thoughts,

but you're not. You're just exploring and you're investigating. And the part, I think you were right on the money when you said that, you know, this is the part that you where the work is like that's where the goal is the part that the part that you don't want to fucking look at the book you don't want to read but you know you have to like that's that's where the real growth is done and like if that can help I think if you

if you understand okay here's a good example my daughter when she was five she was learning to ride a bike. And we had taken the training wheels off. And in my house, there's like a little cul-de-sac. And there's like a fire hydrant right here. And then it kind of wraps around this way. And so for a while, she could ride with the training wheels. We took the training wheels off.

She'd fall, fall, fall. And then this time, I grabbed the back seat and I had one hand on her arm bar. And I was holding the back seat. And I let go. And, like, she was like, you know, like a five-year-old. Like, she was having trouble balancing. And she was going. And then she fell.

And she picked up. She threw her bike. down and she turned to me, Dad, I can't do it. I told you I can't do it. I don't ever want to do this anymore. I hate you. She's all frustrated. And I went over and I gave her a hug. And she's, I told you, I can't do this. It's just yelling and screaming. And I go, Sky, stop, stop, stop. She's like, what? I'm like, look where you started at. You started way over there. I let go two steps after that fire hydrant. And like it just was this realization like, I did it. And it went, you could see the shift in her eyes and in her body language.

And I felt like I could see a new neural connection being made. Like, she was worried that she couldn't do it, but she had already done it. And so the same is for you. Like, how many of your friends have not cut their hair and moved to Canada and started experimenting with psychedelics? How many people do you know that you grew up with that have done what you have done? At least I have one friend in my house now. was my acting as my guide before.

But I do understand your point. One of the reasons I keep telling you, right, like this needs to happen because of lots of other constricting viewpoints come to surface, you know? Yeah. And it gets easier. It gets easier as in?

It gets easier in that if you look back at the history of making these kinds of choices, like once you've done it once, you realize that it works every time. You may not get the results you want, but it works every time. You know what I mean? That's where the question comes straight for me.

Maybe I should let go of idea, let go of the idea of wanting these particular results. Because I think that is done again from the subjective mind. And that's what has made me. you know, I have realized over the course of last few years, like, I have lost interest in maintaining relationships with a lot of people. So I think on average, I talk to five to seven people in a whole year. And, like, that's it, right? And the reason I'm saying is because before I used to talk about a lot of things that wasn't fulfilling to the soul.

you know as Alan would say it's like a club password hey how are you I'm good how are you how's the weather the weather goes good you know and that that becomes the prelude to whatever you're going to talk about and in essence I generally want to go to a point of stopping to I think that's what I said before going to live right sometimes I really because of the conditioning I feel awkward and rambling to that question how are you? But most of the time I seem confident in doing these shitty things because on some level I understand we just, we are like a bunch of kids. We don't know what we are doing, right?

And we can do anything we want. But coming to the point, when someone asks me how are you, it's a nice gesture. But what is this conversation going to amount to? Right. And when my parents ask like, oh, did you eat? Did you sleep properly? I'm like, I feel like let's leave these conversations alone. These are basic things.

If I'm hungry, I'm going to eat. And if I'm, if I need to poop, I'm going to go to the toilet. It's fine. I'm body trained. Right now, let's come to aspects that are affecting us subtly. At a subtler level, why am I reacting to these way? Let's stop seeing outside. Let's focus on what could I do better?

So let's try twisting. So I think my friend who's here and I, we were in a group of 15, 20 people, most of the times, you know, if they ask us something before we could answer, you'd be like, oh, it's going to be some philosophical answer. We don't want to know. Right. And because of that, I lost touch and with a lot of people. It was kind of scary in the beginning, but then it became one of the most best decisions I've made for my own sanity and being peaceful. Like, I can just be peaceful. No effort needed, you know. And no, And one of the things again,

Psychdilixen have done for me was take out this preparation aspect of life. Again, nothing bad in preparing. It's just, for me, it has taken out. My work has come to, like, how can I convince myself to kill myself this again? That's all it is. Tell me, tell me again about your idea of preparation.

Like, it's taken away the idea of preparation for you? Yes. So there are two kinds of preparation. Okay. Let's talk about our podcast alone, right? One is preparing what to talk. One is preparing the mindset, preparing as in planning to create the link and send it before.

So I'm talking about the preparation for those. When I have my podcast, I'm going to send you a link when you have podcast, you send me a link. I do not want to talk about that preparation. I want to talk about the preparation where I have something to say. You know what I mean? This is one of the things we had you ask us in the panel about debates,

why it is not as successful as it should be. What can people do? For me, I have personally seen that the world has convinced me to prepare for every single aspect. In one way it has helped me because I wouldn't be in Canada otherwise. And that's the funny part. It's so paradoxical, right? It's the same thing you tell me about cultures. Right now you're fighting against culture,

but what if culture was the reason that, you know, you realize this? And that's beautiful. And that's how I think it is. Like a few lucky conscious beings just gets to see the matrix for what it is and get the chance to step out of it whenever they can, right? Through any practice. and in that way for me I got so frustrated

in having to decide what to do, what to wear, what how to act what are the things to say and it took away the human inside me the spontaneity inside me like if I had something to say

I'm for me it was a practice of not preparing because I brought life into what I am doing because the other way for me was again I was very polarized right so I went into the extreme of becoming obsessed

with it right and now I know I could talk about the balance between preparation and you know obsession getting it midway but I rather side with one again I'm going to polar because as I said in this world

I do not see as individual having balance as a society we can have a balance right and for that the fight has to be there the extreme opinions has to be there and one of those extreme opinions I have is if you want to be a couch potato

be a couch potato do not do anything do not do anything life a lap take care of yourself see that's again which we talked about where that part of preparation just like creating that stream yard link

like that be self-sustaining again I don't know if I should say this in life but it's the part where if you want to kill yourself, kill yourself. But if you want to love, make sure you create your surroundings to live. If you are hungry, you know, make sure those things.

I wouldn't want to be dependent on another person because that is going to take away their time for their meditative work to sustain us. So that's how easy. So get to that part of self-sustaining. And that's all you need to do. That's all you need to do. And you have the choice to either do that or stop existing. You know, in that way, we do not, we get terrified of discussions, right? Death is one of those things.

Along with that, suicide is one of those things. One of the reasons I feel deep down, we should joke more about suicides. We should talk more about it, you know, not in a demeaning way. It's that, why are we, when we realize what are we trying to kill, when we truly realize what are we trying to kill? And if we, the more we talk about it, we don't want to kill it. we, as much as we are thoughts and Brahma said, we are also living a life of thought.

Most of the time, addiction is about like talking it and we do, no one wants to actually do things. You know, not in a bad way again. Don't get me wrong. In the sense that sometimes you know, you talk about it's like, oh, you know, it was nice, nice, okay. I actually don't want to do it. It sounds crazy

when I say it out of my mouth, right? So in that sense, I've gotten to the point of like, what if we don't prepare? What if we just love? And that's why my dad still thinks that get out of this face. Get out of this face of, you know, not having something to look forward for tomorrow. What do I say to people? What is the next thing you're doing in life? Nothing. Maybe eating, drinking, sleeping, like this is just human life. Do those things, have fun in it. You don't need to prepare, you know. Same, same like doing dishes.

There is, we have this resistance to going to the sink or going to cooking or going to something. Again, it's all from personal experience, right? And most of the resistance is nothing. Like, because once you go and you start doing, it doesn't seem to be a task anymore. It's an interaction, it's a dance.

It's just happening. Where is the resistance coming from? I think that, you know, there's, especially in the West, there's these ideas of people don't plan to fail, they failed a plan. And, you know, like, and while it's impossible to thoroughly understand what's going to happen, and in some ways it's a bizarre thing to do, you know, you can live your life in the future

and understand in some degree what that life might look like, and then you can choose to pursue that or not. The chances of you manifesting the exact life in your own. mind that you think is pretty much zero. But it can move you on that path. Like you can have relationships with people that may or may not manifest. And in doing so, you can prepare to be the best version of yourself in those relationships. When I think about preparing and I think about death, like, can you tell me a time in your life where you have lost somebody that you love with your whole heart and how you reacted to it.

That is unfortunately something that hasn't happened in my life. So I have no idea how my fear of death has been hidden deep inside because when my grandparents probably passed away, yeah, I did cry and stuff, but it was when I was five years old. I mean, sorry, 10 years old, right? So I still didn't understand the full facet.

And again, you're in the developing stage. There was no proper understanding of death or giving the meaning of death or handling grief from Indian families. It's more of like, oh, just sit and cry, it will find. One more thing, as you said, failed to plan quote, right?

There is one more quote will come back to. Time heals. Let's talk about that later. But coming back to this, so I haven't had the death thing, but for me, I'm this insanely obsessed person about having this idea

that this fear of death, this is stemming all desires. every single action is stemmed from that. So in one dimension, it's a useless conversation. In an individual level, when we start seeing it that way, I am more curious of how beautiful our subconscious mind is. It has this thing suppressed deep down, very deep down, for us to process, for us to act normally.

Have you read the book, Denial of Death? No. It's by this author, called Ernest Becker. It was nice. Again, this guy I told, right, who had this collection of analogs. His name is Sam. He gave me the book, Pickle and Denial of Death, since we were talking about these.

And it was nice, right? So for me, having read these books and having had psychedelic experiences, when I start dismissing all the things that were concepts are not truly essential for my life, all that remained worse, why am I not killing myself? In a very interesting way. I had suicidal tendencies before my psychilics in a very serious way.

It's like, oh man, this is I can't do. You got to do these things. Like, I would rather, you know, I didn't go to any extreme to do anything, but I was totally frustrated, you know. I locked myself in a room and I kept getting drunk every single day or every other day. And between those two days,

I was having headable of 100 MG cannabis, right? Right now I take 5 and I'm in a really good flow state and I was taking 100 to numb myself. Yeah. All these beautiful tools I was misusing to just avoid the question of like, man, I had this frustration of killing myself

rather than seeing what is the part I want to kill? But we do not learn to be, as you said, we are the harshest self-critic. More than that, we also do not learn to be, gentle with ourselves. Initially at least. Yeah.

I wasn't gentle with myself. And after my psychedelic trips and I started seeing this, the same questions I had, the same taboo topics of death which I shouldn't talk about. I started seeing this suicide and all these things like, why can't we jokingly talk about it? Therapy does nothing more than give the safe space of getting it out. Just so you hear your own words, how such a. lunatic you are a, that's what

I read a quote, right? Everyone is a lunatic those who analyze their lunacy are called philosophers right? And it's, it's just that and there is nothing

um, the, so many rushing thoughts comes because there was so much agitation in my previous life to get things done. Have a status game. Prove yourself to society.

Right? And when these three are broken, you're searching for identity. My friend who took LISC one month back, he was like, dude, I have a severe identity crisis. I'm like, welcome to the club, nice. If you live the rest of your life with the identity crisis, you're liberated.

Yeah. That's what I think Goenka says in Buddhist meditation. You've got to be equanimous, accept situations as it is. And the reason you need to do meditation every single day is so that in the moment of death, you are able to be equanimous. Most times our death fear are so suppressed that we don't seem to think that, oh, I'm not afraid of death. I'm going to die. Right? Yeah.

We have that intellectual thought. I'm just going to speak personally for me and at least for my partner. We keep talking about this. Our ideas revolve. And the moment we are in an altered state of consciousness and to be able to see death upon itself is frightening and threatening to the point it's liberating. Again, it's paradoxical. But when it's suppressed, we think we might not react to it. But the moment comes, we kind of react to it.

So right now, if I talk, I can say that I can take penis envy now. Yeah. The moment I go closer, something is happening. My heart is racing. So why is my body reacting? Where is this happening? So there is a lot within us that is not processed yet. A lot of the subconscious is controlling our actions.

I don't know. I think maybe that's the conscious. I think you have the, I think that you have the idea to do it. But you're holding back, right? And I, before I get there, let me say this. Like, what makes you think you didn't kill yourself when you were doing? Yeah, I did kill myself. I know my parents.

Like, your son is dead. You as parents are also done. So now let's start a new kind of transaction in a communication way or an engagement way, social way. Forget all these labels, you know. I am at least according to science, you know, at 25 your prefrontal lobe is developed. let's say, you know, if that's the hypothesis, I want to believe. I do not know. Those are just one lines I read, right?

So I don't know if it's 100% true. So assuming that it's 100% true, you are going to, the same capability you have in making decisions, I also have now. So you need to respect that. And these healthy boundaries have to be understood. And in that sense, there is a death of me. What the sun you knew and what the plans you add for that particular person is dead. so in that sense

that happened that is why I'm telling you right now when I talk about death it's so jolly but I wasn't like that death used to be something I cannot talk about right and I also feel like

this is coming from Sam he's a Canadian right and he says it's not just Indian people because I haven't met as many Canadian people and this guy has met right so he said that is an uncomfortable topic in the West too. They just don't react as much as

Indians. They just subtly stop listening to your stat. Like, oh my God. Like, these are conversations I don't want to have. Like, it doesn't make sense. It's not going to. The most important thing is that we are answering system-based questions on divine-based answers. We are like, we talk about death. We say

it's not going to pay my bills. Okay, wait. Let me pause for a minute. Like, how old are you right now? You're 24. 27. 27. I started my journey on 24. Okay. Yeah.

So I agree. Like, you are reborn. Like, I can totally hear the level of contemplation that you have been going through is, it makes me a little bit jealous. Because I don't think I could think this deep when I was your age. And what you have gone through to get where you are speaks volumes of your ability to analyze, not only your life, but the life you used to live. and having the fortitude to build a new life. That's fucking amazing to me, dude. However, however, imagine,

which is going to be tough for you to do, but imagine your son calling you and saying, Dad, you're dead to me. Like, on some level, and here's the fucking crazy part about being a son. Like, I fought, like, my dad chased me out of the pool cube. Oh, all right, you know, and like, we fought or whatever. But I'll be damned.

If I haven't had to go back to him with my tail between my life, legs and be like, you were right. And he just is like, yeah, I know, dummy. He's laughing at me. Like, yeah, I know, man. And so, I just, I want you to prepare for this thing in that, yes, right now you are 100% right. And the moves you're making are the moves that you have to make. Like, you had to be reborn to become the wronger you are now. And the wronger you are now is going to be probably better than you can ever imagine. But at that same token, it's also a. wrong that your parents could never imagine. So while you died and you had told mom, dad, the son is dead to you, on some level, they can't understand what you're saying. So they're

perceiving it in a way that it's probably the worst way possible for them. And it's, it's there, it's not that they want to contain you or force you to stick to these standards. It's that they don't want to lose the one thing in their life that they're so goddamn proud of that is doing the things like you're doing things that your father wished he could have done you're doing things that your mom is secretly so fucking proud of that like she's probably inside her mind like yeah it's my son you know and then but for them to hear the things that you're saying is not being taken the way you're saying them I think And that's probably why you're getting all that feedback, at least from that understanding.

And like, I think that there's some sort of ideas about death that it is uncomfortable. Because when you say death and someone else says death, unless you have a two-hour conversation about death and we define our terms, people have totally different ideas, you know? Especially when you're talking about people who have been around like, like, like, like. like on some level like I think you're going to get your wish about being really close to death like we all are like you know what I mean like we're all going to get to be close to it in a way that is really uncomfortable and regardless if you hopefully at the time you can laugh about hopefully you can be at your friend's funeral and play stairway to heaven and like you know hides you know at least in in my mind, I hope that that's what happens, but experience has taught me that the majority of people are unable to look at death the way you and I and maybe some other people can look at it. And when the fucking pale horse comes riding, it's tough to be not. It's the same idea.

Like, on some level, I think that that's what the psychedelics may be preparing us for. is that idea of death, be it ego death or real death. Imagine the feeling you had on mushrooms when you were thinking about these decisions you were making and the uncomfortableness that it may still bring up now. Imagine that, but not being able to get past that. You know what I mean? Like imagine not being able to have another conversation with someone to tell him you're sorry. imagine not being able to find joy in a simple conversation that means nothing.

Like sometimes I think that as deep as you want to have conversations that only have meaning, maybe there is ultimate beauty in finding meaning in the conversation that is just, how's the weather today? You know, like maybe there's some meaning in there that maybe you're talking to someone that admires you in a way but doesn't know what to say to you. And so all they can say is how. the weather. And like, but that for them is, is big, you know. I, I hope you don't discount that. I love this. You know, this is where I used to wonder, you said, we have different opinions, right?

This is what you, when you bring to the table, right, there is a realization. Whatever I say, I do not say with this certainty. Each thing I'm saying, it's an temporary point of view, which is going to consistently keep changing, right? So I have this view. And from a different point, of you that is brought forth by either my partner or you or people that I talk to. It's amazing. And you see from there and yeah, man, you know, it's true. It's not. And you see that every single one has a good intention. Right. Yes. The same way. You know, the reason you want to say, introduce the word X before, the letter X before all the words to mean that it's honesty. That's the part I say when people ask about whether I,

do not want to talk about weather or climate change. I want to talk about, you know, that's the part of conversation that I want to change. But still, it's something that I am doing. I want the change, right? Yes. So in that, it becomes always the self-journey. With respect, your question about what if my son said I was dead, it took me a lot of time to, I wouldn't say I've reached that part of understanding, but it's getting better with

respect to understanding the feeling of love, detachment, and letting whatever you love, do what it's doing. To truly, and yeah, so right now my focus on death is very strong that every other day when I'm having a bong or even a joint, right? It takes me right into this paranoia. And I don't get. It's pretty, pretty terrifying. and you know you it's difficult to put these feelings into words so in my thought it comes as like

wait if I get diagnosed with this terminal disease I am going to this hospital what is that I'm afraid of about and most of the times I'm more afraid of the transition rather than the actual non-existence how am I going to transit the pain of transition and so okay this is the death of self and the people that I've been attached to for so long in life were my parents, right? So there is a lot of death fear going around with them. They're 60, but I am, that's all my preparation I have got to do. I try to prepare for the death of my dogs, my partner, them, because there is no preparation of death for me. because that I feel like this is where it teaches me that death is not something that I experience.

The experiencer in that sense dies and then that is being perceived as death on the outside world. So it is quite difficult to hear shocking statements from people who have changed their views drastically. But it also comes to the point where if we do not do these, if we do not have these discussions and conversation, broaden our scope of understanding the world. In some way, we are killing ourselves, I feel like. So again, it seems very harsh thing to say. Sometimes I talk to parents or people, and I feel like, no, man, I don't want this conversation happening

because I feel like there is no listener that side and because of that there is judgment this side or because of the judgment, I feel like there is no listener at that side. And there doesn't seem to be a harmonious act. happening. It seems more of a compulsion, right? So how do we? And that is where the uncomfortableness comes, you know, a little bit of uncomfortableness here and there and the feeling of something within life, right?

Like, it has to come. For me, the conversation, so when we are talking, right, this is the peak of my life. When I microdose with my friend, that's the peak of the life. Like, there is no, mind tries to compare, but there is no comparison. You look back at a particular point in time, it can be the peak of your life. and my work kind of lies there in just detaching from these things right even with my partner the relationship aspect we've been together three years but we got closer so much in the last eight 10 months because of you know a lot of suffering that happened last year and the LSD trip this January right and it's so liberating now there is a there is a theory in existential psychotherapy that people are not truly a afraid of other people's death. Each time they see death, their subconscious realization of their own

death comes to a little bit of the surface. And you know, and coping mechanisms come along. So our job would be to put these coping mechanisms away and let all things arise from the subconscious. I do understand. See, this is the part, George. We can keep talking for so long and we can, these words are noises and we create and give meaning, right?

you can literally say anything and in some way a meaning can be derived out of it. That's how it is. And in that sense, when you say the subconscious is also you and you do not want to, you're just afraid of taking that move. Something is, but you are only stopping yourself. That's what I say. Now you're saying you are just you and subconscious. I'm saying scrub the line and you see everything is you.

and now the problem starts, you don't see it as a problem. So the same way I am dealing with my subconscious as like I am awareness and subconscious is subconscious as the other entity, right? It can be a battle also if I choose to, but sometimes this labeling allows me to see that I need to interact with it.

Like I see it as like a fighting match, you know, a boxing match. I love this analogy where when people box, right, they do not fight the person because of like subjective views or ideas. They fight for the fun of it. They break their noses. They, you know, they see these things and they hug it out. Like, they do not go about fighting the streets the next day. And the boxers do not show off their talent every single second.

Like, whenever they see, you know, instead of greeting like this in Indian Council, they're like, yep. You know, they don't do that. And we got to understand that part with self-awareness that whatever we, we say, it's all situation related. I cannot go to a funeral house and say that, why the fuck are you crying? He's not dead.

You bury them. He will be eaten by mushrooms. That's not the right time. But that's what I want to say. That's my, I would say that's my calling to go and make people, if they're suffering, suffer more. What can happen?

You can't die. Suffer more. Suffer a bit more. Suffer to the point. Ask yourself. fuck is this guy frustrating me? And we changed that part. Why am I getting frustrated?

And it was a really good question about what if my son told me that he's dead. I said, and I feel like I want this old world to act as such. You know, this takes me to this most sensitive discussions of, I think, Jason and you had and even how to change your mind they were talking about POT

and it's restricted use to indigenous people. I'm sorry, I do not agree with that point of view. You know, because for me, psychedilic took me beyond to show there is no us and them. So if I have 10 pieces of strip and there are 10 people interested, and I wouldn't decide. I wouldn't decide that, oh, my friend is coming tomorrow.

Fuck that. That's tomorrow. The world could end tonight. So why are we not passionately living like this? today is the end of the world. You know, it's a stoic thought to ponder as well, right? You know, and the POTI guys were saying, and the indigenous people were saying, like,

at least for 100 years we need it for our children. You know, this distinction is driving us apart. You know, the more you give, the more you're going to get back. We are talking about supply chain issues and problems like that. Those are not actual concerns. It's the idea that of separating this. There is still an us and them at a subtler level. Right?

Yeah. If we start working towards that and if they were to give pote to everyone right now instead of their own thing, it's just a thought, right? It's not actual. But if they were to give, there might be out of that 1% of people who are truly passionate about the plant and they start growing it. And by extension, it's going to start, if supply chain is the only concern, it's going to boom because they see the potential. Right. Likewise, I feel like if everyone felt like, oh, you're dead to me and you want to go, you go. This is what you want to do. Be free to do that. I want you to do what you exactly want to do. Enjoy. You know? And whenever we are restricting other people to not let do that and then the work comes to us. Why am I stopping? There are again, Ram Das. Ram Dass, I love man. I've been understanding a lot more of his words and, you know, when I go to Facebook, there are these. points I come and he says, nice. And he says that whenever I act with people, even with the

subtlest of the model to change them, at the deeper level of the other person I sense there is a resistance. And because of that resistance, they shut up. They shut off. Rather than that, I have learned over the course of years that I need to embrace people with whatever they are. What Maharaji did to me, I'm here to do to people. It's a very hard journey because I am a very judgmental person right and we always have that's why I think I message

that those topics that there's models and unconscious bias right and we need these models like the model you tell your daughter let's see you started here you have gone there it's a temporary model

that she needs to learn a bigger model but eventually she's going to go to a point where like no Josh you're dead to me we need that we need that not in a bad way say that you're dead and still interact positively and then see what has died the tension has died once i say i'm dead to people and so i'm dead to you josh the conversation is happening so what's

that when the the death we are facing i think we have already discussed it's the idea of the people there is no reality to it there is no reality the first point we discussed in our podcast is that you are nothing but a bunch of personalities right so if we say it's just a personality entailed in this particular body is that the idea of you that exist in people's mind, when we consider the physical death and if you are either burnt or buried, you're just converted into something else. You are not gone anywhere. Just like no cleaning is ever done.

We just transfer dirt from one place to another. Right? There is always, yeah. There is no cleaning as such like eradicating dust. We just keep on moving it and it's such a funny thing. Same with people when they die. So the physical body dies. The personalities they add, that personality and habit patterns is present through so many people.

The same thing you do 75MG, ACODMT, someone else might be doing. A person would be married to this person and have a six-year-old daughter and living in Hawaii. That personality might be in another person. So of course you can put all these bunch of personalities together. It will be in a different number of people, but it still exists in them. Right. And let's forget all those and see it logically. the people you talk to the girl you're racing she's going to have values that you carry right so you're living through her but the we are so caught up with the idea of you know something idea of something idea of this person and it's very hard it's really hard because this conceptual part if you're able to understand and start you know processing it the conversations become more again these words seem

meaningless. The conversations become deep. What is deep here? So it's just it becomes more fulfilling. You know, you're not compelled to do it. For me, my life has become from compulsion to free will. That's what that's how I would say. It's liberating. That's a beautiful way.

It's because you can do the work. People can choose to be confined. You know, if there's, if, you know, if, you know, if, If we are all contained in our own prisons, then the prison is just a manifestation of our mind, but so too is liberation then, right? Like whatever it is, it's a choice in some way. And it kind of saddens me in a way because at some point, if you look at us as a whole, and I take your point that

that it's the fear of death. So when I see someone else die, I see part of myself dying. And it's that, for me, it's that part that people get hung up on whether they're consciously understanding the fear of themselves dying

or if they manifest it as someone else they don't know dying. Either way, they're still dying. And I think at a certain point, and I hope I, I hope I don't ever reach this point, but it's this idea

that you get to a point where you either, I think you just have to accept it or you just yeah, I think that maybe acceptance is dying. Right? Like if you accept the fact that you're going to die, then you've already died. And then that brings us to Kevin Holt's idea of he who dies before he dies, never dies. Yeah, I think that's my WhatsApp thing.

It's a cutto's thing. It's quite, It's quite true. It's quite true. Again, it took a lot of time to understand, right? Because the words that we are introduced to in the world about death and stuff are just superficial words. There is always a deeper meaning in all the words. And our life becomes just an exploration of all these things. Like it's, I also see this the one way, because of how serious my life was tended to, I see life as one big joke. You know, and when I see video, like Osho having this title in YouTube and for whenever he talks about how it's a joke and in that sense it's true but you just can't go and tell it to people when they are going through that process

so that's where we need the time and space to heal right this acceptance has to happen in complete silence and awareness you know it's a lot of energy related work and I think that's where meditation comes right

you know when people die, they have a 10 to 13 day ceremony in India which I used to be like, this is crazy, fucked up, man, what's wrong with you? And I told you, my dad has, he did two days back, he went for his 56th anniversary of his dad. And I'm so sorry, thank God my dad doesn't see this video. Even if he sees, I'll just say too much more that. So publicity, any negative publicity is also publicity. But seriously, so those things that were done, you know, the 13 day function. in India, the Indian culture,

was to provide that support, system and structure, right? Like, someone is there taking care of things, you know, with respect to taking care of people, the funeral activities, you take the time to contemplate, you know? And crying can be part of it,

but I think on some level, crying seems to be the end of it. You know, it doesn't, it's not seen as the beginning of processing. It's like, why is this need to cry? And this is where I, I also feel like time heals is one of the most misconceived words I've seen in recent times. If you give enough time, if you do not do the work, nothing will heal.

It just goes into your subconscious that you forget about it. You know, you think it's fine, but your subconscious is now deciding what actions you are going to do without your conscious choice. You're going to be present by it. So when we truly say time heals, we need time to create that space where we can do the work. Because this work is just internal work. You sit with it. You sit with it. Right.

And we are not told to even India. My partner has gone to India now and she's just being told that, why are you not normal? Right. This is like such thing. But more than that, it's like you can be normal to this is the age to be. normal, right? And yeah, there are so many things that comes. And see, this is where I'm trying to say all these things that comes as anger, I try to redirect. Sometimes I just go out

and say, and it's not what I want to do. But eventually that becomes the point of trigger for me to start looking, what is this trying to tell me? Why do I have that? Because I have done all those actions. When I say I have lived this life and I do not have the particular desire to do something. So in some life time I was this greedy person who, you know, I was a slaveowner. Probably I did a bunch of stuff, you know. And that's where, that's for the logical, rational mind to see that there is a stream of consciousness that flows through death, birth cycle. And there is a philosophical side of, oh, there is no, no one. There is no you, there is

no me. We need to use whatever tools we can, whenever we can. For me, I am obsessed about this. This is the only work I do. This is the only thing. Any activity I do, any time I'm sad, be sad with the perception that I can be detached. What is going wrong here? What is going wrong? What is going wrong?

And as you said, it's the choice we make. Whatever present that the mind creates, the mind can also liberate itself from it. Right? And the words like, a mind is a good servant, but a very, horrible master, right? And it's true, I have seen how much I've been terrified of life, terrified of things, terrified of

sex, talking to girls because sex has been so such a bad thing. I couldn't do anything. I couldn't talk to girls for so until 22 I have not talked to a girl properly. Can you imagine that?

I think women were afraid to talk to me because I was so handsome. I kind of can. No, you know what? I don't think you're alone, man. I think that it's relationships between men and women. Like, you know what?

Like, I want to go. I don't, I have to go. I don't want to leave, dude. I don't. Because I feel like we're just starting to get into some awesome stuff. Let me go through a couple of things, though, real fast before I leave. Like, this is real, I really enjoy the wrong. And I feel like we're just getting started because I could go for another two hours.

I feel like we're really moving through some things that are really fun. that can be helped to people. So let's see. Let's come down here to Hank. Our friend Hank has said a couple of things. He said, Timothy Leary said, if you don't have an ego death experience, you haven't had enough.

I think McKenna had said something similar to, like, he had said something like, if you're going to take something and the amount you take doesn't make you cower and fear and say, holy shit, I've taken too much, I'm going to die. Then you haven't taken enough.

Yeah. And I think, so he says that, this is for Leary, 400 micrograms, he says, is to be some sort of a minimum. Yeah, that's a, that's a solid amount. I, um, that's Timothy Leary, so consider the source. You know what I mean? Oh, I love this part where he said, yes, wow, Rang, I hope you can pay for the serious therapy that George is giving you. I truly agree because I was literally thinking word by word when you were saying that, Ranga, how is, do you think that night when your friend came into the room, do you think it's affecting you?

Yeah, thanks for calling me bullshit. But yeah. Look, the only reason I know that is because I have that exact. Like, you can't, I can't see something in you that I don't see in myself. Like, so I see all of that. I think that's why our conversations are so fun is that. you get to see yourself and someone else. And there's something so liberating and exciting and also frightening about that.

It's like, oh, man, that's me. Oh, that's me. Oh, that's me. Oh, that's me. You know, and it's like the game of peekaboo. Like, oh, peekaboo, there I am. But yeah. So Ranga, I love this, man.

I think you're an amazing person. I'm so stoked to get to, to have met you and carry on these conversations. And I'll be thinking about this stuff most of the day. So I thank you for that. It's like the gift that keeps on giving it. Ben, Hank, thank you guys so much. I'm looking forward to all our future conversations. That's what we got.

Where can people find you, Ranga? You've got your own podcast now. Do you have a hosting site and have you finished editing something? Or what's your time frame here? No, after the last talk, my work week started and I worked in 70s. So I haven't gotten into that. My partner has the copy. She's in India.

I think she has edited it. So once that's done, we'll put it on Spotify and YouTube. And yeah, I'm obviously, you're going to be the first guess because I want to ask you the question when I bring you as like, how stupid were you to invite a person like me? Like, what's wrong with you? You know, when I saw your message is like, oh, before you give that answer, I read your thing. Like, your invite was beautiful, right, with the book quotes and stuff. I was like, but dude, why me? Like, why are you trying so much with me?

I, I, I, I, I, and I love that energy that you have carried from day one that I've known you. And it's amazing. That has given a lot of confidence and you're one of the major reasons that if a podcast was to be outside, it's definitely you. And that's there. And I'm there on LinkedIn. I'm free to reply to all kinds of interesting conversations.

Right. I'm just, just make sure. that I'm not a serious person, so do not get offended. I see a lot of clinically insane stuff. Like, your stupid fool, George. You know, go with that thought. Think about how much of a stupid fool you are for the rest of the day, and I

will think about how much nervous I am about the penis and me. So, that's the takeaway of the podcast. It's perfect. It's beautiful. I can't even add any more to that. I will talk to you soon, my friend. Thank you for everything. And have a tremendous day. All right. Bye. See you.