TrueLife - Adam Butler - Nothing Left To Hold Onto

Starting point is 00:00:00 Turn on. Take the power back. LSD. Welcome back to the True Life podcast. Hope you're all having a beautiful day, a morning, evening, wherever you're listening to this at. Thanks for being here today. Got an amazing guest, a philosopher, a iconaut, individual who's really found a way to make the best, of their life through adversity, through tragedy, through joy and love. The one and only Adam Butler, Adam, thanks for being here today, man. How are you?

Starting point is 00:00:57 I'm excited. Thanks for having me back. You are one of the individuals that I always get excited to talk about. Well, talk with, I should say, so I'm excited to get into this. I want to give people a quick preview of this incredible new book that you put out there, The Alchemist of Tears and some of the images in there, they made me cry a little bit. Some of them fucking made me roll on the floor laughing. I don't want to give away the whole stuff here,

Starting point is 00:01:19 but I got a few pictures that I'd like you to address. So let's jump into that over here. So this is kind of the follow-up of my first book, Butler's DMT Field Guide. And that really was the book that I said. I never thought that I would write or the topic that I would be speaking on behalf of. And I'd be more than happy to get into that story.

Starting point is 00:01:38 I know we covered most of that on the first episode. But, you know, Bulletpoint at 40 years old in essence, I had my midlife crisis and I had to recalibrate absolutely everything in my life. And, you know, in retrospect, it's five years into this journey. I can kind of say it's easy for me to look back and say, well, I was a drunk, narcissistic, belligerent asshole, 40 pounds overweight, treated everybody like shit. I lost multiple relationships, quit or got fired for multiple high-paying jobs. I threatened to kill him in.

Starting point is 00:02:08 I lost everything. And part of my regrowth journey, or transformational journey, journey was I went deep into psychedelic shrooms for several months and really did that inner shadow work. And then I started getting into DMT, which opened up just an expansive way of thinking and kind of elevated consciousness. Then that led to basically me spending a year and a half living out of my car, living on the road. I went to 40 plus states. And, you know, there's a picture in there of my roadmap from 2022 where I just said, fuck it and pieced out. On a Sunday night, I got into a fight with that gentleman who I mentioned I threatened to kill.

Starting point is 00:02:47 And I can get into the details of it. And again, in retrospect, if I would meet him again, I'd shake his hand and ask for forgiveness. You know, these are all things that, in that time, I was really triggered. But that happened on a Sunday night. Monday morning, I woke up with a backpack and said, I'm driving to California to hug a redwood tree. And that was my only plan.

Starting point is 00:03:03 And then basically these pictures, and not that they're all from that year and a half period, but a lot of these pictures were taken, you know, when I was on the road for those transformative times, times. I came back. I wrote the DMT field guide that was three years ago now. I've been on 70 plus podcast. The book is doing great. I've had all of these expensive things happened. I've gone to the Monroe Institute, Darknessy, blah, thinking that, all right, well, I'm beyond kind of the real trauma of my life, so to speak. And then pretty much just, and this book just came out two weeks ago,

Starting point is 00:03:37 a month ago is when I had just a whole crumbling of my life of trauma. And I'll pass it over to you after this, but after pretty much this book was published, created, fabricated in less than a week. I didn't sleep. I cried buckets and buckets of tears, and this truly is the alchemization of a bunch of crap that

Starting point is 00:03:57 I'd really, really never thought I would be dealing with after writing the book that I never thought I'd be dealing with. So yeah, this is like a, you know, cherry on top of the cherry. Man, there's so much in there. You fucking threatened to kill a guy. Jesus Christ. Oh, 900 bucks. Over 900 bucks when I was making.

Starting point is 00:04:16 Yeah, I was making shit tons of money. Well, and here's this kind of dichotomy of it. It was my hurt ego. It was my, you know, little boy kind of coming out being like, how dare you, whatever. And so there was that recognition of there's a better way to channel your emotions to kind of take a step back, take a breath. And, you know, there's to threaten somebody, it's certainly not $900. bucks. That being said, the disagreement was based on integrity, character, honesty, truthfulness. And it's funny because I just actually had a meeting with the owner of that

Starting point is 00:04:55 company a couple days ago. And I hadn't talked to them in years because I was just like, listen, there's some kind of loose ends that I just want to kind of clarify. And, you know, long story short, I'm going to die on the mountain of integrity and character. And I know that I probably won't be able to work in another business. I won't be able to have normal type relationships, I won't be able to interact in society in a normal way because I won't tolerate anything other than integrity, character, honest conversation, truthfulness, authenticity, not only from myself, but everybody that I interact with. So as much as I regret that action and I would do it differently and I'm sorry that I threaten to kill a man and it cost me damn near everything,

Starting point is 00:05:34 including almost my life. But the principles behind it, I stand by. And that's, you know, something that I'm sure by the end of our conversation will lead into that, that grace of God, that connection to source, that alignment with self, which we all have to find. And it's going to be different for each person, but once you find it, there's nothing that'll knock you off of it. I'm, you know, I have, I don't want to say regrets. I would have done things maybe differently, but I stand by the principles on why I stood up for myself. Because don't be a fucking rat and take 900 bucks from me. Because you do that in the street, you get shot. Or you do that, you know what I mean? That's kind of one of those. No, that's, or two thousand years ago,

Starting point is 00:06:13 you did that in a cave and you got bludgeoned with a rock. Like you can't do that shit. No, but that's kind of the story of my life is that I've truly lost everything because I won't tolerate anything but what I think is authentic and true and raw. And I give the grace and space for other people to have a difference of opinion

Starting point is 00:06:33 so it's not just like, well, everybody has to agree with me. But yeah, that's made my social circle very, very small. Which is why I love you. Because I think you have that same bullshit filtered because you've had, you know, not only have you seen kind of God or truly, you know, the terror before the sacred. So you've seen both. You've experienced a terror, but you've had the sacred. And you need that dichotomy to be able to truly appreciate what we have in this human life.

Starting point is 00:07:00 Yeah, man. I have had that instance before, particularly the instance of losing everything or what I thought was everything. You know, when you get to a point and you. you think you have all these things, whether it's a good job, or maybe it's a marriage, or whatever it is, that thing that you thought was everything. And then it's, it's, I hesitate to say it's taken away from you because it's your own actions that allowed that thing to be gone. I have found that it is that actual taking away of the illusion that allows you to

Starting point is 00:07:38 become who you're fucking supposed to be. when you stop trying to be the person that you want to be and start being the person that you're supposed to be, sometimes that only comes when all the bullshit is stripped away, whether it's through an action of threatening someone or, in my case, threatening a company. It's this idea of losing yourself to become yourself. What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, I'd love to expand on that because I think that really is the crux of what society needs right now. And I think there's a few ways of looking at it.

Starting point is 00:08:10 Okay. Yes, you know, you have to do that, that inner work and look within. And I think that begins with first off knowing that you're worthy of taking the time for yourself. And there's so many people that really just don't believe that, that they don't think that they're beautiful, wonderful, worthy, that they are divine, that, you know, that they should take the time for themselves. So that's kind of first and foremost. And that means even sometimes taking away from being a parent or an employee or whatever, like you have to take that time for yourself. And I use the analogy all the time about plaque removal and how, you know, over time, I think just society builds up plaque on us. And whether it be self limitations, whether it be past trauma, whether it be just survival methods. I think we all can get bog down. And I know that's what happened to me at 40 years old where I just spent 25 years of my life shoveling shit under the rug. And, you know, I had everything on paper. I had all of the successes. And that was kind of how I was able to mask it with alcohol and with whatever. And then it finally came up. where I had to really look myself in the eye and take ownership of all the crap that had gone

Starting point is 00:09:14 wrong in my life. But part of that is that removal of that plaque. And some of it is proverbial, and I think some of it is actual literal. And there are mechanisms for removing that plaque. Now, in my case, it was kind of trauma slash psychedelics that really kind of shook that up. But for other people, it could be a near-death experience. It could be, you know, coming out of a coma. It could be going to the Monroe Institute. I mentioned, I just came back from a darkness retreat. You know, you can have some incredible plaque removal if you sit in the darkness for five plus days. But I think there's a twofold action to that.

Starting point is 00:09:46 Once that plaque is kind of removed, you're able to express yourself creatively. You're able to admit love and light and energy and really be able to express yourself truly. But you're also able to receive it from other people, from that divine source, from others. And it just becomes this beautiful, energetic kind of resonance with like tones. again, like people like you and I being able to just kind of resonate instantly when we met. And that plaque removal has to happen somehow, some way. But the first step is knowing that, hey, maybe I have some plaque and it needs to be removed. And then the modality of how that gets removed is really the topic that I'd like to explore because I know you and I are very comfortable talking

Starting point is 00:10:27 about psychedelics, but, you know, truth is psychedelics are definitely not for everybody. DMT is certainly not for everybody. But achieving your potential, knowing that you're more than your human body, knowing that there is this kind of divine grace out there that tap into, that is for everybody. And that's why I was really happy to listen to the episode with Dr. Susie Ross, maybe you just kind of, you know, on past because she recounts this beautiful story of, you know, walking in the mountains with, you know, a group of kids. And all of a sudden she had this transcendent, transformational, enlightening experience where she basically tapped into God. And you'd hear that experience. And unless you've had it, you'd be like, what is she talking about?

Starting point is 00:11:06 Like that is so far-fetched to the person that hasn't experienced it. Or when I talk about going deep into these DMT spaces, and again, I'm really excited to recount a story that I had recently where I really did interact with God, and I can explain it in, I think, a beautiful way that is similar to hers. But there's so many other ways of, or so many other, and you've had them on your show, of people sharing very similar stories of tapping into something greater than themselves,

Starting point is 00:11:34 and then realizing that once you tap into that, that that's always there. And you saw the sparkle in her eye when she was talking about that epiphany moment where I was like, ah, like, yes, this is what my PhD's going to be and I'm going to dedicate my life. And I've been asked recently multiple times, like, you know, kind of what is your purpose or why are you doing this? Or, you know, and I'm starting a nonprofit.

Starting point is 00:11:54 So I'm starting conversations with a lot of groups of people about, you know, what my intentions are. And it's so clear cut and so easy. And it's like, I almost want to like vomit it out before they even finish the question. And it's just like, I just want to help people suffering with mental health, illness, and suicide ideation. I just want to help the people that were in the dark, shitty places that I was. And a really awesome part of my story that I didn't even think would happen was when I wrote this book, you know, and I have a chapter in there about transcendental sex art and science. And I talk about all these kind of, you know, awesome interactions with DMT entities.

Starting point is 00:12:29 And there is some sensationalized stories there that I love to get into. And that is a beautiful aspect of doing psychedelics. and let's not negate the beauty of it. That being said, what's happened over the past few years are, I have not turned into the DMT specialist guy. There are people like that. There's the Rick Strassman's and the Andrew Gallamaw's and the Hamilton Morris. No, and even not like my buddy, Danny Gola, he's done DMT thousands of times.

Starting point is 00:12:55 Yeah, that guy's awesome. Those are, you know, I don't want to say the experts, but they've done it way more than I. What I've really leaned into over the past years and really probably over the past six months is, being this authentic vessel for people to be seen, to be heard, to be felt, to be loved, to be truly interacted with as a human when they haven't been getting that from society. And I'm not saying this in a bragging way. If anything, I'm saying this because if people think that their voice isn't important or that, you know, they can't write a book or they shouldn't do a podcast or they shouldn't write an article,

Starting point is 00:13:27 yes, yes, yes, and yes, you should because I know I'm not the greatest author or my words are the most poetic, but I have dozens and dozens, if not now, maybe a hundred or more of emails, heartfelt phone calls, voice messages from people saying, Adam, your words truly helped me not kill myself. Like, I woke up and I was going to, today was going to be my last day, and I asked for a message and your podcast came on, or I read something and it hit me perfect, or in my case, I resonate a lot with alcoholics. I'm five years sober from alcohol. A lot of middle age men have lost everything because of alcohol. I'm able to talk to these guys in a way that really is helpful. And that, so that's shifted my entire kind of writing style, what I plan on doing. And, you know, to the people

Starting point is 00:14:13 that are listening, I sent you that group text. Like, I'd love to get on stage with you, with our friend Mia, with our friend Tanya, to talk about beauty and grief, alchemist of tears, terror before the sacred. You know, these types of concepts that psychedelics are not are relevant to everybody. And we need to be able to talk about hard stuff and because it can be transformative and it can be beautiful and you can alchemize it into an amazing life. Not not an amazing life without bullshit and crap going wrong and people screwing you over. That will happen. It's how you, it's how you interact with it. And in my case, you know, I turned from being so uncomfortable in my own skin that I wanted to not only off myself, but kind of take out society with me to now I'm so comfortable in my own skin. I don't want to be

Starting point is 00:14:56 anywhere else exactly with where I am right now. And every day is full of goosebumps, elated bliss, connection with sauce and interactions with incredibly awesome people. And I only do what I want to do. Now, that may sound kind of like childish and like, well, good for you. But that has, everybody can do that because you just don't tolerate shit in your life. And it's so liberating and so freeing. And that's the message I really want to share. Let me ask you this, though, Adam. Like, are you sure you want to do that? Like getting that many. phone calls from people thinking about suicide. That's a pretty big rap to put on yourself, man. Like, that is no joke when you start having people call you and say things like,

Starting point is 00:15:41 you saved my life or I was thinking about killing myself. You know, and I can see how that could be welcoming and inspiring and you could be grateful for that. But what about the responsibility of that? Like how do you hold the responsibility of a hundred people calling you and saying, thanks, man. I thought I was going to take my life. That seems like it could be a slippery slope to me. How do you deal with that? Humbly, carefully. I've lost everything in my life.

Starting point is 00:16:10 So I have nothing else. Like I don't have a wife. I don't have a family. I don't have a kids. I don't have really a job anymore. I don't, like I live still kind of out of my car and in my parents' basement. And so I've truly, I've dedicated my life for this because I've got nothing else. but it's this, I'm in a unique position where I can dedicate my time and energy and I'm not

Starting point is 00:16:29 taking away from other people. I know that I don't have all the answers to fix somebody, but what I say I can do is just I can give you five minutes or an hour or two hours of my time to listen to you. And I can, I think I can give you the reason to stand this planet for another hour or another 24 hours or another day or another two. And in that time, I have references that I can share. So I've got a lodge, really, actually I say a lodge, how I said my social circle has been minimize. The people in it are the type of people that can help. So I've got, I've got personal friends that offer their cell phone 24-7 to reach out to people. And whether they be the Hispanic brown skin middleman or whether they be the pretty middle-aged woman or whether they be the old

Starting point is 00:17:09 seven-year-old man or whether they be the college kid. I've got people in my social circle that can help all of those groups. And then more importantly, it's connecting to the dots to the right people. You know, it's not, hey, I think I can fix it all. It's more importantly, I'll listen you're not alone. You don't have to go through this alone. And there's a bunch of people that will instantly, you know, gravitate to help you. And I think that's, that will keep them hopefully with, with hope to get through to the next day. And then when they talk to my friends like you or my, my friends, you know, Treblase Garcia has this awesome podcast out and I've been on a show a couple of times. I've got a friend, Dr. Brea, who works with the Mass Department of Health as like the main

Starting point is 00:17:51 suicide prevention coordinator. So these are people that have that, this is what they do. And actually, that lady Breyer, I'd like to invite to our, you know, writers' guilt because she's just an amazing resource. But, you know, so like I'm writing a kid's book on suicide prevention. And that's, like, those are the type of people that I'm going to partner. So it's not like, I've got it all figured out. It's like, no, I'm collecting with a whole group of people that have, that each have a little piece of the puzzle. And I think as a creative author and as somebody that can take complex content and kind of break it down, that's what my role now is. And do psychedelics and do all the fun shit and travel and do all that funky stuff too.

Starting point is 00:18:28 But with, you know, not with the just, hey, let's go see fun shit. It really is my empathy radar or my empathy sensitivity is so off the charts that I can't ignore the pain and the darkness that people have and they can't hide it. You know, like you can put a band-aid over a physical wound. You can't put a band-aid over a psychological wound. wound and I see those in people and I just want to hug them and help them because I know how painful it is to wallow in that shit. Yeah. In your book you had mentioned, you spoke a bit about a mirror. I couldn't help just pull on that thread and, you know, I applied that same idea of the mirror

Starting point is 00:19:10 to my life. And when you look at people and you see those things, when you see the pain or you see the grief, or you see the elation or the joy, what you're really seeing is a reflection of yourself in those people, you know, and in some ways there might be some transference there, but, you know, once you go through pains like you've been through or so many people listening to this, you see it in other people. And I think that's the right, the right feeling is that you want to reach out and try to help those people. It's interesting, man. I see so much negativity on the news and in culture. Yeah, go ahead. I was going to say, it was so easy for me, too, to judge. And I mentioned that kind a bullet pointed in the DMT field guide how I really, you know, I was the rich, white, educated

Starting point is 00:19:55 kid from New England that had everything. I got gifted a, you know, big sum of money to stop businesses. I had all, you know, all of the advantages. And it's not to say that I would, I would walk through society and judge people or think people were lesser than, but I always had this, this air of arrogance or cockiness to be like, well, I'm making 200 grand. I own all of this. And I'm with the hot woman. And I've got, and I, I, I just. just had this very, really false sense of self and security and in a heartbeat, all of that got taken away. And, you know, up until even just a couple months ago, I thought I had security again. And that all got taken away. So part of this journey really was humility where I was able to walk

Starting point is 00:20:35 on the streets with homeless people that had holes in their socks and smelled like piss. And not only would I not walk away from them, I would walk up to them, start a conversation with them, hug them, share my joint with them, buy him a sandwich, let them know that they're a human. And then, like, you laugh, but man, like, there was this one guy in California. He was just sitting in a doorway and we made everybody, you know, walking by and they won't even look at him. Like, he's like he's not even a fucking human. So I stop and say, you know, hello, how are you?

Starting point is 00:21:02 We have the short, a little interchange. And I just said, I love you, brother. And I walked away. And you saw him be like, no one's had, no one's even said hi to the guy probably, you know, like one out of every 50 people even acknowledge him. And just for somebody to look at him dead in the same. soul and for me to mean it because he saw my pain he saw me maybe with my fancy shoes and me getting out of my Audi S5 but he saw that I was just as broke as he was and it's like that's

Starting point is 00:21:24 that's where that filter got taken away from me where and and not to say that I don't you know I know that there are hierarchical levels in society and then I'm not naive to think like well we'll all have to be equal but we are all human and we all deserve to be loved and to be seen and to be You know, and I, and this is where I'm really sensitive to the people that, so I had got alcohol out of my life five years ago, and that really is a, as a massive part of my transformation. But up until 40 years old, I was so bogged down with plaque. I was so just, I was horrible, and I treated everybody like shit. And whether, you know, whatever is bogging people down and at whatever age, you know, the story is

Starting point is 00:22:09 that you really can get that spark of life again. And yeah, you just, you have to know that that is what the true joy of life is, is to be comfortable in your own skin, know that, and to really do that in a work, to have seek self-knowledge, which then will lead to self-love. And then once you have self-love, that naturally expands to all the people around you. And life just becomes this collaborative dance of collaboration and synergistic relationships, not hoarding of resources and putting people down in competition. It's just a better way to live.

Starting point is 00:22:45 But you have to get out of your own way and stop banging your head against the wall and stop thinking everybody is, you know, against you like I did. Yeah, I think society indoctrines people into that system of competition. Like if you listen to Krishna-Murdy, like that guy talks about competition being one of the worst things out there. But it's difficult for me to understand because, you know, I have a drive to be the best. Like, I want to dominate, you know, and like I want to be the best at some things. And that gets in the way of my relationship sometimes. So on some level, we do need that drive, though, don't we?

Starting point is 00:23:25 And I realize there's a line you don't want to cross. Like, you don't want to be the guy that just shits on everybody and sees people as numbers and stuff like that. But how do you balance that? Like, how do you maintain that drive of becoming the best person? and you can possibly be and getting rid of competition. Is there a way to do that or do they live synergistically? How does that work, you think? I think it starts with really being comfortable 100% in your own skin,

Starting point is 00:23:52 being aligned 100% in your own faith. And then, you know, like maybe a perfect example in my life right now. So, you know, we're both part of the psychedelic states of America that this psychedelic writers guild, a really great group of people. So I mentioned this kind of bust and his chops on the call, which hopefully he'll be on. this Friday too. Noah Daly how he's he's editing my articles, right? I consider myself a really good author. I've sold thousands of copies, 15 countries, like, you know, like my work is, yeah, I think I'm a good

Starting point is 00:24:22 author. But it's a different writing style from being a book author from being an article writer and from being like short form pointed. And that's what he's an expert in. Like he, I mean, he went to, to college for that. That's what he has his degree in. He's, you know, he's got published articles all over the place. Like, he really is the person that I should be able to take constructive criticism from. And the first article I got back, it had like 200 edits. I'm like, what the fuck? My whole book, my first book didn't have that many. So I gave it back with the edits. Then it came back with like 100 edits. And I'm like, well, all right. And then it came back with like 50 edits. And then the second article, which is coming out next week, it's kind of like the same thing. But throughout the whole process,

Starting point is 00:25:01 every comment he made was dead on right. There was no condescending. It was only trying to make my work better. You know, and it was that kind of collaborative effort where like, do I want to be the best writer? Yes. And you're an author and you write books. So would I, do I consider you competition? No, I consider you, if anything, if I give my work to you, you can edit it, you can give me feedback. We can work collaboratively. Maybe you can write a prolog for my book. I can wrote a prolog for your book. There is no competition in my space because no one can be Adam Butler. And I think maybe that's part of the message too about being comfortable in your own skin where so many people, are trying to be like the second best somebody else, whatever, the second Taylor Swift or the second

Starting point is 00:25:41 best, whatever, Tom Brady or like in my case. Again, I am not going to be the Rick Strassman or the Andrew Gallimores or the, or the Danny Golas. They don't have, but they're also, they're not going to have my story with my colorful history and not to say like I hate to tell you, but like put my narrative against like anybody in that block and I only share a, I'm sharing like the iceberg. I mean, the tip of my iceberg, when I tell you, like, there's so much more depth and weirdness under even the shit that I share, where it's like, cool, I'll take my story because I've got a lot going on that. I don't need to try to act like them.

Starting point is 00:26:17 So, and even with, part of the story, we'll get into this. So I just got out of a four-year relationship, and that's part of the alchemizing of tears, and that was a horrible thing. I mean, I truly lost my best friend and all of that shit. But now I'm being back into kind of like the single life and being in the dating scene, like, I know, that 99% of the women, I am not for.

Starting point is 00:26:38 Like, I am not the guy that you're going to marry, have kids with. You definitely don't want to take me home to your parents. I don't, like, I'm living in my parents' basement. I have no money to share with you. I'm not the guy that's going to buy you fancy shit. And that's not me, you know, ragging on myself. But I know for that one percent of the, like, I am the perfect woman. I have the intellectual curiosity.

Starting point is 00:26:57 I've got the background. I, like, and whatever, and I'm not going to try to be like, oh, look at what I got here. But I don't feel like this competition. feel like the person that will see me for who I really am will think I'm fucking awesome because I am and I will only be with them if I think they're awesome because they are. And that's where it's not like, oh, that guy has bigger muscles than me or he's a tall, handsome Abercombe model or fuck, I'm 46 and got a white beard and he's 32 and jacked. It doesn't matter because the person that that's looking for me will find me and be like, that's it. And it's easy for me to say, well,

Starting point is 00:27:33 like how do you see perfection like that or how do you think somebody would see me like that? Well, and this is where I love your story. It's the way you told me you look at small children or babies and especially after some of the the shit that the shit, some of the beauties that made your transformation happen where it's like, you look at every child and there's just divine perfection. You look at a flower. You look at nature. You look at bugs.

Starting point is 00:27:56 You look at, you know, and I have this awesome story about how the last time I went to the airport, I locked eyes for like 10 minutes with this six month old little child. Shelby baby boy. And it was to the point where his dad was holding him. And every time his dad tried to move, like the kids, like the head would swivel. So then his mom tried to get in front. And like the, then, like, it was, it happened for so long where then it started talking to the dad, then the mom, then the little sister. And I just felt so privileged and so honored that that little boy at six months old saw my divine connection to God. And he saw me and my perfection as this funny, gnarly tattooed bearded guy sitting next to him in the airport. And I saw in

Starting point is 00:28:33 him, that divine connection. He was still so close to source. And it was fucking awesome. So it was a mom, dad, like an eight-year-old sister, and then this little baby boy. Most people would be like, oh, I hope they don't sit next to me that kid's probably going to cry or what the fuck they've got a carriage next to him or maybe the kid's going to smell like shit or he's going to puke or like, most people would be like, eh, a family with a little kid where I leaned into it was like, man, if I could lock eyes and then I did. And so now this is like the third podcast I've talked about it. I still think about that little dude, like in my fucking dreams when I say my prayers. And it's that's where everybody just had that sense of self, but then saw that and others,

Starting point is 00:29:12 but then also called out the bullshit when it needed to be called out and had that authenticity and integrity filter. That is, I think, that next level of human evolution that I think is possible once we have all of this shit come about. So yeah, we just step levels of philosophy there. But that's really the big picture. It's just standing there and not be like a little baby that's going to cry and smell like shit. It's like, no, look into the soul of that beautiful divine source. Yeah, I want to believe most people are like that. Like, we have these sort of walls that we put up. But you put someone next to a brand new baby, man. You can't be that close to something so beautiful and be a total asshole. I'm sure there are people that are, but go ahead. If all you're

Starting point is 00:29:54 thinking about is taxes and bills and shit, is my wife going to catch me cheating and where's my next line of coat coming from. And like that's, maybe it's easy for you because we have clarity of thought and we have sense of self. But I think, again, that that's a big problem of society is that everybody's, well, not everybody. A lot of people are masking it with alcohol, with prescription pills, with running from, you know, truly doing that inner work with themselves.

Starting point is 00:30:18 Yeah. This brings up an interesting point that I've been thinking about lately. And I see it in psychedelics. And I know maybe we'll talk about it in the Writers Guild today, but there's this thing happening not only in psychedelics, but in the world around us. And it seems to be a gap between competence and authority. You know what I mean by that? Like sometimes in the natural world,

Starting point is 00:30:42 the most competent person is often the leader. But when you look at the world of structure, like business or education, it's not always the case. You know, a lot of the times there's people that are authority that are not that competent. They don't have the experience. For you, for me, for so many people,

Starting point is 00:30:59 people we know that have built a real lasting relationship with psychedelics, they're really, really competent. But it seems the people pushing to be authority figures. Like, there's lots of people in psychedelics and never even done psychedelics. What are your thoughts on that competence versus authority gap in the world of psychedelics? And I think maybe we have to put in morality or the concept of morality, because I know that's a personal concept and it will be different for each. But I think maybe that ties in that concept of some sort of universal truth or some sort of like, hey, there should be something we should be all be able to agree upon. But yeah, I think that that's a problem of society at whole is that people get rewarded for being pieces of

Starting point is 00:31:44 shit. Like, I mean, I hate to say it. Like people, people, well, people get rewarded for stealing, lying, cheating, for deceiving or, and maybe not even, and this is where, as I have like trust crossed out of my hand and how I just like, again, say how I had my heart broke from getting out of a four-year relationship and how I just met with the boss a couple of a couple of days ago who fired me from two years ago. And I can say that all kind of with a straight, like not mad at him and not crying because of her, because I give people the space to change their opinion or for them to be able to move or shift or have a dynamic thought or for something in their life to kind of move or whatever. But yeah, you know, unfortunately, people, society rewards what I would consider negative or

Starting point is 00:32:32 dark or shitty behavior. And it leads to, again, the conversation I just had with that gentleman. So the who own the company, so it was 50, 50 owners of the company that I worked for. One of those owners is the one that screwed me over. So I was talking to the other side of the owner to kind of be like, you know, just, again, am I missing something? And it really came back to, no, you weren't missing something. He did steal from you. actually get compensated for what I was thought stolen from me. But this guy's advice to me. And

Starting point is 00:32:59 it's honest advice. So he's still a family friend. I really feel as though he has my best interest in line. Like I don't, I don't think he was, you know, trying to fluff me up. But he's a hardened businessman, multi-millionaire owns multiple businesses. And that's when he was just like Adam. Society is not ready for somebody that will be 100% authentic, honest and true and integrity and and all of that. And pretty much he was like, you need to make the decision of, you know, you will continue to be ostracized and continue to be the black sheep. And you will, you kind of have to walk this lone wolf path if that is what you are going to, once again, bear your flag on. If you truly are going to be this guy and the answer is yes, I am going to be that guy.

Starting point is 00:33:41 And because I feel like I have no choice. And this is where maybe if somebody could have an equivalent of this, where it just becomes so easy. So beyond just, yeah, everybody should always act like they're on camera and they're being recorded, right? Like, just simple stuff. So don't do shit that you're ashamed of or don't do shit. Like, in my case when I was still drinking, you know, I would run in right before a road trip and go back, you know, grab the bottle of vodka and just fucking whack back three or four gulpfuls. Hiding from my girlfriend and her daughters.

Starting point is 00:34:08 It's like if that's the shit where, you know, if there was a camera in the house and they saw that, you know, you'd feel bad about it. So it's like, don't act like you're on camera. That's maybe like the basics. But then I always go through life like I have God. on one shoulder, my pepe on the other, which is in the opening page of the book that you showed. And then now that I've gone deep into these psychedelic spaces, I really feel like I have these DMT or psychedelic entities there to hold me accountable. And that accountability is it can't be

Starting point is 00:34:36 faked. And that's where, you know, I say often, like you can't look in the mirror on five grams of shrooms and lie to yourself. And I think that that truth serum, that telepathic communication, that so like I can say to my girlfriend, oh, I'm not jealous. list or I can say to you, hey, listen, I don't think of you as competition. I really would want you to edit my book and I really would write a prolog for you. And I'm telling you the truth. I mean all that. Because I know when I fucking go and smoke DMT tonight, they're going to be like, oh, you fucking lie to George. Why? You're going to, like, and I'll get a slap on the wrist where it's like, I don't ever want that slap in the wrist from those entities or from God or from my pepe.

Starting point is 00:35:11 And it, yeah, it just, it keeps it. It keeps it the honest. And maybe this is where, maybe parallel to the story about competency and kind of what that means. I think where if people just have raw truth and kind of bear their heart on this sleeve like I do, I don't think, again, I don't think society is ready for that. And I'm, unfortunately, I've, you know, I've borne the brunt of that where I've clearly had most things that people work for taken away because I won't tolerate that shit. But I think maybe a midway step, and I was listening to a Carl Jung, either seminar or like a speech and he was talking about the importance of not only setting up boundaries. So, you know, the concept of boundaries is pretty straightforward. But I think people normally think about that as

Starting point is 00:35:58 kind of like a negative concept. Like you're truly putting up walls to prevent someone from getting in or, you know, obviously that's concept of boundary. But then he expanded upon that as within those boundaries, you have gates of clarity. And that was a really, really important concept because then he expounded on, it's really important to let you yourself know what your gates of clarity are and what are what's acceptable in what you want, but then also to express that to other people. And it sounds kind of intimidating or it may be a little bit awkward at first. But, you know, like, again, perfect real life example, talking about collaborating with the psychedelic states of America. Like when the three of us had our conversation, it was like, hey, listen, guys,

Starting point is 00:36:38 here's my cards on the table. This is what I'm willing to do. This is what I'm willing to offer. This is what my time is spent. If I feel as though I'm being being used or manipulated or whatever, I'm instantly going to stop. And it was just an awesome conversation with three adults or like in everybody that that I'm interacting with. It's so refreshing to say and apply that now even to my dating scene or like, hey, listen, this is a this is what my boundaries are. Like I'm not getting married. I don't want kids. I don't want any of that shit.

Starting point is 00:37:07 But then here are my gates of clarity. What I'd like to do is we can go on vacations. We can go to New Hampshire for two days. We can go to the psychedelic event in New York. We can, you know, it's like, so I think it's really important. in every aspect of life for everybody to have their boundaries, whether it be in personal relationships, work relationships with themselves, with their diet, with their health, with all of that. But again, most people don't take the time to do that. I wouldn't even know how to begin

Starting point is 00:37:30 to even start that process of inner reflection. And that's where I think that, you know, the theme of your guest and your podcast and what we've been talking about is, I think, the big picture way beyond just psychedelics. You know, it brings up, it makes me question, there's seems to be sort of a dichotomy between like empathy and boundaries, at least for me. A lot of the times when I see people that I think are really assholes, I think like maybe they're just living their truth. Like, I don't know their story. And you know what I mean? Like maybe, and they have a reason. People aren't just assholes to be assholes. People are assholes. They have a reason. It might not be a very good reason, but they have their reason and

Starting point is 00:38:12 they're living their truth through it. So how do you, how do you establish that? Like if you, like you see the homeless guy and you're like, dude, this guy, no one's even said hi to this guy in like six years or this guy's obviously going through some shit. I want to empathize with him. But what if that guy is just a piece of shit? Maybe he's down and out because he deserves to be down and out. Like, how do you figure that out? Right. No, so again, I'm not naive to think there's this like utopia out there where everybody is, is perfect. So there are some piece of shit scumbags that needs to be wiped off the planet and I'll be perfectly blunt with that. And I, like, I'm the guy that could run that truth. No, no, but I mean, there are certain things that, like, you know,

Starting point is 00:38:50 if you steal a loaf of bread to feed your family, whatever, that's acceptable. If you do some of this, like, Epstein-Eyle-type shit, like, there's no coming back from that. Like, there's no lapse of judgment where you're going to, we're going to do some of that shit, where it's like, no, your DNA needs to be fucking wiped off. And, and again, so that's not, like, all love and light and Adam's, like, you know, not going to harm a fly. If you're a piece of shit, throw me at him. That being said, and this is where... I love it. Well, because I'm, but I'm sensitive to the asshole.

Starting point is 00:39:21 I'm sensitive to the jerk. I'm sensitive to, and this is where I can share a little bit of my personal story. And then with permission, and I'll, you know, I'll ask him, but I'm asking them right now. And to share a little bit of my dad's story and my personal family story because it's dark, it's nasty and it's fucking horrible. But it comes with, I think, in answer to your question that hopefully I can help the assholes, like, because there's plenty of assholes out there. and then maybe help the people that are dealing with assholes. So I truly was the biggest douchebag asshole that there was. And in my story, I'd mention how I got a restraining order against me.

Starting point is 00:39:55 So I got a knock on my door from a constable saying, you need to leave this house, you need to leave everything. That woman did everything she could have. And if I've ever met her again, I would beg for her forgiveness. And if she spit in my face, I would take it and say, I'm sorry. That was one of four women that I fucked over and yelled at and was an asshole to. Now, I never raised my hand to anybody. I've never been in a fight.

Starting point is 00:40:14 I've never hit a man, so I've certainly never hit a woman. But I was spatially aggressive, verbally aggressive, abusive. I mean, these are terms that suck for me to fucking say. But not only to these beautiful women who were truly 10 out of 10, gorgeous, successful, any guy would be happy to have any of these women that I dated. Not only them, but they're kids. And then they're kids' friends. And so, like, I was this dark, nasty, horrible force that ruined fucking everything.

Starting point is 00:40:41 I wasn't in my niece's lives. So that book that you mentioned, The Alchemist Atis, how it's dedicated to Juliana, I wasn't even part of her life at all up until five years ago because I was so just a narcissistic, belligerent asshole who was so focused on money, things, material wealth, all of that crap. And I say all that because I was so fucking bad and nasty. And not to say now that I'm some enlightened soul, that's perfect. I'm still a human. I have warts.

Starting point is 00:41:05 I have scars. I have a lot of shit that I'm digging myself out of. But the nasty dark parts of myself are 180 degrees different. I will never raise my voice to another woman. I will never point my fucking finger another person. I will never threaten to kill another man unless it's really needed. I will just, I will not, I'm such, even just my demeanor, my talk, my everything is so different from what I was 40 years ago.

Starting point is 00:41:27 So I give people the space. And for me, and I'm not just saying, well, it was just 100% alcohol. But in my case, I was a horrible alcoholic. I've been drinking since I was 12 years old. I drank every day all day. And but because I was making so much money and I was successful and I had all the stuff and the three-story Victorian house, and it was all, I could always hide it. Well, so again, five years ago, I stopped drinking a little shortly after that. I had my psychedelic epiphany transformation.

Starting point is 00:41:54 And this is all, so again, this is all relatively new to me, this whole writing career, that everything is all new, new, part of me drinking or stopping drinking and then having all this should happen is I moved back into my parents' house. Now, my father is, was a horrible alcoholic, generational alcoholic. So I learned it from him. He learned it from his dad, from his dad, my father's brothers and sisters, alcoholics, my sister, like, it's a horrible, fucking generational thing, right? That was the main crux of our budding of head. So when I moved back into my parents' house, I now saw, and now I wasn't my father's drinking buddy, now I was holding the merit to myself, it was not comfortable for me to hold the merit to him. So now I'm

Starting point is 00:42:36 seeing how he's treating my mom like I treated all those women. Now I'm seeing him be the the asshole that I was. Now, I'm seeing all of this shit, right? I'm bulletpointing this, but this is going on for years. So him and I have gotten into multiple fights where we threatened to kill one another. Now, me and my dad were best friends. We were business partners. We could not have been closer to my dad up until I stopped drinking. So for years now, this has been this head butt shit. And now my mom's saying, fuck you. Like, she's seeing what an asshole he is, and I'm finally got the balls to call it. Everybody else is kind of running from it. Long story short, Months ago, she was like, listen, I want a divorce from you. Like, I'm done with this. And my father kept

Starting point is 00:43:15 thinking, like, I was the wedge. I was the one causing shit. I'm causing all this crap. I'm getting not only my mom, but our entire family against him. It was literally Adam's the asshole. Adams is my enemy. And Adam is truly trying to fucking destroy my life. Like, this is what my father thought up until literally a couple weeks ago. So I, this is this conflict that I have with my dad. And now I'm sober. I've got multiple friends that are sober that are saying the same thing like holy shit like I never thought like friends that were abusive and actually beat up like their wives and shit like we're coming back telling my dad like listen I didn't even think like until I got unpickled I was that same guy right so all of this shit's happening I come back from my five day darkness retreat this is just three weeks

Starting point is 00:43:59 ago totally raw totally like an amazing experience and I'd love to get into the details of that but I just came back roar as fuck and every one of my deep experience is it always comes back to my daddy issues, my deep inner kid fucking trauma issues of I just want my dad to love me, to hold me, to see me, to appreciate me. And since I've quit my high-paying jobs and quit alcohol, my relationship with him was non-existent. And if anything, it was, I was the enemy, right?

Starting point is 00:44:27 So I come back from the darkness retreat. I write this nine-page heartfelt letter to my dad saying that, listen, we obviously can't talk because we're so emotional. Let's write it. We'll write our thoughts down. We'll exchange these words. so that way we can just shit because whatever, right? So doesn't read the letter, doesn't do anything.

Starting point is 00:44:46 So I'm fucking pissed off. Have this, my friend's over to kind of protect us. So now I'm confronting my father about some shit that we need to confront. It blows up for hours. It's fucking horrible as horrible as you can possibly get to me being on my hands and knees, literally crying, saying, dad, I just want you to fucking appreciate me. Like, horrible, right? So I fucking pull him down to the ground.

Starting point is 00:45:08 he's hugging me, but it's like holding a fucking rock. He's saying he loves me, but again, I'm an empath. I feel shit. Like, that's not it. Like, there's clearly fucking nothing there. And so, and then I tell him about how I had another suicidal thought, like, just a couple weeks prior. Like, all this fucking release, right? Thinking this is it.

Starting point is 00:45:28 Like, this has to fucking get him. This has, like, he has to see his broken little boy. And actually, that fucking pitch, or a picture like that, I brought up him when I was, like, four years old. And I'm like, dad, pitching me in my voice. saying this right now. Like I just want you to fucking see me. He leaves, leaves for the night, wakes up the next morning, says hello, like nothing ever happened. Like, what the fuck, right? So my mom says, fuck you. Like, I'm getting a divorce. This is it. I can't see you treat my little boy like this. And this. And, you know, so I'm ready to basically just say, fuck you. I'm just

Starting point is 00:45:56 associated now. And I again, I'm sharing family stuff with you because I really hope this helps other people. So it finally hit him like, oh, fuck, this shit's real. He has a complete mental breakdown. Like complete snap. So I've had multiple ones of those and it's horrible. So he starts hyperventilating. He can't breathe. He's literally fucking. He's shaking.

Starting point is 00:46:17 He's flipping out. He won't, my mom won't take him to the hospital because she's like, no, fuck you. You call one of your bar buddies. One of the people that, you know, you basically, all your friends that you put above us, call one of your fucking bar mates to bring you to the hospital. So he does. But with her help, he actually can't dial the phone.

Starting point is 00:46:32 Bomb mate comes, picks him up, brings him to the VA hospital. He goes into a psychot for fucking seven days, like bad psychod, like blocked in, like, people licking the walls type shit, like that type cycle. He calls me two days in, leaves a message, and you could tell it's still wicked deflective. Like, he's still, I'm still the enemy. Like, you know, Adam, I'm sorry. I love you.

Starting point is 00:46:52 So fucking, like, nothing there, right? So I'm like, fuck you. Two days later leaves another message completely different. Like, something happened. Like something, he had this shift that, you know, and that's that epiphany moment, whether be the alcohol saying I'm done or whether that be that coming to God moment that Susie had. something happened where he switched. But I still didn't answer the phone call and I didn't answer.

Starting point is 00:47:16 Two days later, he leaves another calls. I still don't answer. He leaves another message. Now, again, I'm feeling this is heartfelt. Something's changed. But he's checked himself in so he can technically check himself out. So a week later, and now my mom's been going to talk to him. He knows that there's a divorce.

Starting point is 00:47:31 Me and my mom are getting our own apartment. Like, all this crazy shit's going down. Well, I pull in from meeting up with that boss who I told you I talked to. So I already have this three-hour, like, emotional talk with this guy. All this crazy shit goes down. I come in and now I know that my father's home. I have no idea what's going to happen. Are we going to punch each other?

Starting point is 00:47:47 Is he going to attack me and say, fuck you? Like, you cause all of this shit? Or what happened was I walked in and I just saw the back of his head. So he was sitting in the living room. Completely different energy, completely different aura, completely different, but completely different man just from the back of his head. Completely fucking different. He gets up, he looks at me, completely different man.

Starting point is 00:48:10 Again, we embrace each other for minutes. Best hog that I've ever had with another man ever. He's in my ear saying, I love you so much, I'm sorry. I'm telling him the same thing being like, what the fuck, this is what I want to do to you. We hold each other for fucking minutes. That night we do it again multiple times. This is just a couple of fucking days ago.

Starting point is 00:48:31 Like this is all brand, brand new to me, right? So I say that because that night we had multiple other talks. taking full accountability for what he needs to do. He's never drinking again. He knows that whatever. He's, he had 15 people for him, not against him. He knows that me and my, my niece were for him, not against him. All of this shit. The next morning we woke up, he was brushing his teeth, and I just went in and I hugged him while he was brushing his teeth. And I thought he had actually spit out the toothpaste, and he didn't. He had it in his mouth, and we hugged each other for fucking minutes. So not that, like, that's some big thing for a man to do, which the whole toothpaste

Starting point is 00:49:03 into his on his mouth. But for my dad, he up until that, he wouldn't even look me in the eye, let alone hug me, let alone hold toothpaste in his mouth. When I went there and held him, he was like, I would have held him for hours. Like, he would not have spit that tooth space out for anything because of what he went through. And I share that because I had my change at 40 and I'm going to spend the rest of my life making up for that, which is ultimately to those women and those kids, but also to society, to remove some of the plaque and shit. This man is 73 and he had a change at 73 where I and it's not some fake shit this is real we now we're writing each other notes I tell him I love them every like we hug each other multiple times we

Starting point is 00:49:46 are now each other's assets again excuse me and um so it can't happen like that change can't happen now what's going to come of it are my parents going to stay together they're going to no we're all there's there's going to be a new life moving on but man you can get out of your own fucking way, you can stop being an asshole, you can stop being a dick. And as much as he was an ass, like, I was that times a hundred. As much of a monster as he was to my mom, I was that times a hundred, but time to four women. And now, like, that was one of the biggest keys that I needed fix. And I told, that was my big daddy issue. I was like, dad, you have the fucking key to my psychological wounds. Like, all you need to do is fucking hold me. All you need to do is hug me. All you

Starting point is 00:50:28 need to do is see me. So for the past three days, four days, I feel held, I feel held, I feel seen, I feel loved, I feel heard, but so does he. And now he knows that he has me this powerful asset to help him through now, which is going to be the most challenging part of his life. A life of, now he's going to redo his whole life of fucking 74 years old, but he has me as an asset. So that, I give everybody again the space, the grace, the time that if they're 50 and still an asshole and I'll call it, or 60 and still an asshole. So to your point, what about those, those assholes? All right, well, if you're a pedophiliac rapist who's a fucking scumbag, again, Let's take him off the planet.

Starting point is 00:51:05 If you were just, just, if you were a narcissistic belligerent asshole who is so caught up in his own shit, I guess I have a soft spot for that because I was that. And then my father now is going to be a perfect example. And not to necessarily say, even though he said he would, that he's going to come up on stage with me or be part of my podcast or part of whatever. But now he is going to be a shining example of what it means to own up, look in the mirror, stop fucking running from shit. And for the first time, he's able to say I'm an alcoholic. Now, like, that's not a dirty word.

Starting point is 00:51:35 That means you have an unhealthy relationship with alcohol. That doesn't mean you're a failure. That doesn't mean you're a piece of shit. That doesn't mean any of that. But for 73 years, he couldn't say that word. But now it's like, oh, cool. You know, that's like me saying, like, being embarrassed out of my psychedelic philosopher. I love psychedelics.

Starting point is 00:51:50 I lean into that. Like, he couldn't. So there's that. And that's what led to, I think, a powerful story that with this emotion, if somebody could share what I'm going to share next, that's the same thing that's the same thing that's Susie Ross shared. That's the same thing that you said you've experienced. That's the sparkle in the eye that is accessible to everybody. And that's the story I'd like to share with you next. But I know I've been talking for a while. So I'm going to hand it back to you.

Starting point is 00:52:16 Man. First off, thank you, man. Yeah, that's the first time I've ever shared that like that. Or been this much of a fucking mess. But it's important to share it. And I think this is the podcast to do it. Man, I appreciate it. I think everybody that listens to this will feel it, man. I know. I did. It's fucking beautiful. It also speaks to the power of courage and not giving up on people, man. I think that's something that this whole story underscores is never giving up on becoming the very best version of yourself or never giving up on what you truly love. Well, and staying aligned to that integrity and character.

Starting point is 00:52:55 So, like, I knew that I had that as my truth. And if I could just get my father to see that. So now, and again, maybe sad, but, like, not like, like, you told me. the other day he's like I stood over my mom and watched her sleep and thought about how beautiful she was like he went through all the to do list and got all the shit done and it's not he's not trying to make up for it to be like oh please be back with me and don't leave me not at all he's doing it to show that he really appreciates her and understands what she's been through and he's just trying to do whatever he can to make good on it and like that's like I just I applaud him for

Starting point is 00:53:24 his strength and I applaud him for what he's he's going through and but his his life is going to be better from it and he knows that so now he does he knows one of One, his wife, his son, his granddaughter is, they're not his enemy. So wow, now you realize you have a cast of characters to help you not fucking hurt you. And he realizes that, yeah, wow, you're an asshole. So, like, even me, like, you see how sensitive I am and how much, like, I like, I like people. You know how painful it is being to know that I was the darkest piece of shit asshole, pretty much in every room, in every, like, almost in the fucking state wherever I was.

Starting point is 00:53:56 Like, that, that's a hard thing to fucking, to bear. Okay, let me ask you this. Let me stop. Like, what do you? do with that? How long do you hold that? Yeah, exactly. How do you do that? Like, it sounds like, it sounds to me on some level, like, you can't ever let go of that. Well, so this is, this is where that inner work with Schrooms really, really helped me was I was so, up until I took ownership of myself, I was always looking for some sort of external solution to my internal problems. It was always,

Starting point is 00:54:26 well, that asshole, that woman, that whatever, or if I always had, if I had more money or more stuff or motor. It was always, it was always outside. And even, and I mentioned this how I had a therapist and I was paying him, you know, 240 bucks an hour and he was this highly educated older man who really could have helped me. But I would go in there and I wouldn't, I wouldn't lie, but I would manipulate the story to make it sound like I was so intellectually advanced and I was so superior and just the society wouldn't get me because of, and it's, and I would get him to kind of be like, oh yeah, kind of feel bad for Adam. You're just this great guy. And it's like, No, I should have went in there and said, no, I'm a drunk asshole. I lied everybody about my drinking.

Starting point is 00:55:05 I treat everybody like shit. And gee, I wonder why all my relationships suck. But it's like, but if he would have said that or if somebody else would have said that, I would have gotten pissed off belligerent and probably got aggressive. Where with shrooms, it was the first time that myself told me those things. Myself looked me dead in the eye and was just like, Adam, you want to hear the truth? This is why you're 40 pounds overweight. This is why these women left you. This is this. And it wasn't, it wasn't an angry. really like, oh, you're such a stupid man. It was a loving like, hey, these aspects of yourself have protected you. And this is where the concept of, like, IFS, internal family systems, where it kind of breaks down your psyche into parts, into egoic parts of yourself that it's not someone good or

Starting point is 00:55:48 some are bad or some need to be silenced or shut up or that you want to disassociate or dissolve your ego. In my opinion, it's none of that. You need to embrace all of those aspects of yourself. And my first several months of psychedelics was really deep, deep, deep, inner shadow. work with shrooms or I went not necessarily every day, but I was going multiple times a week really, really deep. And it was tough. It was painful. I had to really relive a lot of the pain and trauma. But I came out of that owning it. I came out of that owning everything that was wrong in my life. I took ownership of. I wasn't deflecting blame. And then, you know, the kind of twist of that was, but now, you know, so three months into that, now I'm just, well, I realize that I'm like all this

Starting point is 00:56:29 stuff, but now I'm still in this whole mess. I still have no idea what to do. And that's really where DMT came in. And the sum of that long first day of progression was really just appreciate the very moment, live here right now this very second. And I was so caught up living in the anxiety of the future or the fear and embarrassment of the past that I couldn't just be here right now. And I came out of that breakthrough session with the moment or with the realization of, man, you've but this very second. So this very second not to yell and be an asshole. This very second to decide to go to the gym or to do whatever.

Starting point is 00:57:07 But yeah, so that was the two kind of like brain shifts that I had was take accountability, don't deflect, take ownership. And, you know, the solutions to your problems are going to come from within, not from without. And then the fact of just, yeah, stop being so caught up in past and future and just be here now. And then those two concepts have really been synergistically combined for the last three years to live a really content life. But, and this is where the asterisk. So then, hence this book, The Alchemist, the Tears. So I freaking, right before I go into the darkness retreat, me and Alicia break up.

Starting point is 00:57:43 So that's the woman that was in that first book. She's, she's been my best friend, my psychologic philosopher, my sexual partner. And it's fucked to even say this. But like, I've never been so proud of a woman for breaking my heart. Like we broke up not because of cheating or deceitfulness or without like we split up because we were both being true and honest to ourselves. We were being authentic with ourselves. And the difficult reality was our futures look different than what we envisioned. Right.

Starting point is 00:58:08 So it's like, but still really, really difficult. So I have that going right into the darkness retreat. I come out and then I have this whole episode with with my dad. And then I realize that, you know, me and my mom are going to be moving. And that's when on the way home from that doctor's retreat, I realized. I have like 5,000 photos in my phone from my trip across the country, like beautiful. And so me to take out 120 was hard. Like I have so many gorgeous pictures.

Starting point is 00:58:32 And I was like, why am I not doing this? Like I should do this. I can do this. The only thing preventing myself is for me. And this was just a perfect example of truly getting out of my own way, alchemizing incredible pain. I mean, demote from losing my girlfriend to my dad not telling me he loves me to like almost killing myself again to the darkness or just. to seeing my mom crying being like, where are we going to go, son?

Starting point is 00:58:56 Like, we're going to move together. Like, just, and then having no one there to talk to because of all this shit, I decided to sit down and the other book I went through a publisher and helped them. This one, I was like, fuck it. I'm going to learn everything myself. I learned all the programs. I started a publishing company. I uploaded it myself.

Starting point is 00:59:14 And I said, fuck it. I'm going to alchemize my tears. And that's what this came out of. But it's different from, like, the, and I'm a, also collaborating on another book about the Dark Night of the Soul with these two women. And it's great. It's going to be like this trifectar of like stories that come together. But what I went through years ago, what I mentioned about the shrooms and then that epiphany DMT, that was my dark night of the soul. That's when I was suicidal, really, really shitty. And I had no clue who I was where I was

Starting point is 00:59:44 going to go what my, my level of shit was. This last thing that happened a couple months ago, it was painful. And I say I had suicidal thoughts. It wasn't like, it was. It was a lot. It was wasn't like before it was it was just it was remembering what that feeling felt like it was like oh yeah that's that's the feeling that I don't ever want a feeling not like oh fuck I'm gonna go do what I wanted to do before but it was it was the combination of all these emotions and these kind of you know what you need to prove to yourself that you're capable of doing whatever the fuck you want and yeah so that for the past couple months have been nothing what I would have thought this book wasn't supposed to happen this next chapter my love wasn't supposed to happen but now because

Starting point is 01:00:21 of that over the last few weeks so many awesome things have transpired including multiple trips across the country multiple collaborations and interviews with you so yeah thank you maybe it's our age but i can't help but think how handsome we are well that's a given i mean come on that's a given but i mean i think that there's something that happens at middle age that i i never knew about I didn't have any mentors or people that really sat me down and told me about, like, you get to go through a second adolescence. You get to go through a ritual, a cleansing, if you have the courage to do it. But you, at a certain age, and maybe for some people it's younger,

Starting point is 01:01:08 but for me it's late 40s and 50s, is like you have an opportunity to stop being this fucking person that you thought you wanted to be and become the, person that you're supposed to be. And when I hear your story, man, it's fucking brings me to tears. Like it makes me like happy tears. They get to hear someone go through all these trials and tragedies and come out the other side. You know, it's like this initiation. And I liken it to all the mythology that I've written where you go through this initiation and you don't even understand it's an initiation until you're like halfway through it. And you're like, oh, shit. I always went through this trial over here. I didn't realize it was happening, you know, but what are your

Starting point is 01:01:49 on that? Do you think that it doesn't sound like maybe you had anybody to show you the way through the dark night of the soul? Or is it something that we all have to go through or find the courage to go through? Is that what happens? Is it a middle age thing? Is it a life crisis thing? Because it seems like you have to have those experiences, the growing up and finding yourself addicted to alcohol or understanding that this is a generational trauma. This isn't mine to even hold, man. I'm the one person. break in this thing. But those realizations don't come until you're through that or almost through it or halfway through it. But what's your take on this sort of second half of life and rituals and whatnot? So there's a couple of things there. You know, you're comment about how you didn't

Starting point is 01:02:37 necessarily have that type of mentor or that type of information. And I think, and so, you know, I had some great mentors. I mentioned, you know, my pepe, you know, I went to college for almost eight years, I had some really great professors. But to your point, I didn't have a life mentor, somebody to just sit down and talk about this, about love, about broken hearts, about relationships, about all of the stuff that, and as much as a great father that I have, and as much as my, both my grandfathers were awesome men and really had good relations with them, there was never this intimacy, this authenticity. And I don't know if it was like machizo, alpha male, kind of just a different generational thing where to cry or be soft or open about feelings was just

Starting point is 01:03:15 not something men did. But that's really where I'm, again, that's what I'm leaning into now is because as much as my story about psychedelics and about the fun shit that I've seen is interesting and maybe colorful, it's a lot of young to middle age men are gravitating towards me because I'm willing to sit this time with them and yeah, like give them that mentorship of just raw authentic reality. And with the, and this is to the other point, I don't think the desire is to remove their own personal suffering or to take their journey of their own dark night of the soul away or to walk their path through their proverbial hell for them. That's something that we all have to do. And it's like when I hear people going through that in some weird way, like I'm like,

Starting point is 01:03:58 you don't know how lucky you are. Or I hear your pain and I'm not trying to deflect it, but man, you're that close. Or you know, you're 90% there. And there is something that, you know, you do have to go through that realization. There has to be that dichotomy. There has to be. be that other side of the spectrum. But it's, and that's, you know, you tie into some of these ancient stories and, you know, mythic stories, but then even like the hermetic principles about polarity and swinging flow and ebb and flow and, you know, you have to understand that there is going to be the low to the high. There is always that opposite. And to not run from it, but in essence to run to it. And another analogy I use often is that through all of these things

Starting point is 01:04:38 that I've been through, it's like you're getting Girl Scout or Boy Scout badges for your sash. And I, like a soul sash. And there are some people that just don't have the balls to do anything to get those badges where my, and not only, like my first sash got filled fucking years ago, where I've got like cross sashes full of badass badges because I've been through some some crazy ass shit. And I wear those badges with honor because now I can help all the people that are going through that crap. So that idea of being a mentor or being there to listen for one another. Again, I think you're doing that, I'm doing that. And that's a really important. thing for us to do and to do it with with vulnerability and that i want to say surprisingly but that's

Starting point is 01:05:20 what has resonated the most about me being able to be accessible to people isn't hey can you show me how to make dmt or your recipes were really interesting or teach me how to do the tantric sex it's yeah like no one understands me can you can you just run this by me and you know i talked to a guy the other day and he had you know he called them knots he's like i have these three knots and they were three kind of like life things and after 45 minutes, we untied all three of them. And he was just like, holy fuck. Like how, I never, like, I wasn't calling you to get these untied.

Starting point is 01:05:51 I was just kind of running it by you. And I didn't have the answers. What I did was I asked the right questions to hold the merit to him where he answered it himself because it was the first time somebody actually listened to him. Instead of being like, oh, what are you bitching to me about your problems? It was like, all right, you're clearly reaching out to some strange guy who you don't know because you think I can help you. Not to say you're clearly desperate, but it's like, all right.

Starting point is 01:06:13 man, like run it by me. We were able to solve it. If I could, this was where the, the painful story of my dad, I wanted to share it because it relates to something beautiful. And if people could, I'm trying to like, excuse me, I'm trying to articulate what would be like to have a DMT session, but then also to experience God and to have that like enlightenment or epiphany moment like Susie Ross was talking about or like multiple, you know, the guests talk about.

Starting point is 01:06:40 So if you could picture me, roar as fuck. crying like I just rebranded myself which is another kind of thing so I had to do that as a pressure relief out so I got literally like an open wound in my fucking heart I'm on my hands and knees my mom's crying my friends crying like I'm literally fucking pleading with everything I have having this emotional breakdown and what I was doing again I was looking at my dad begging him to see me hear me know me love me right like just the basics like just look at me like appreciate me And it's painful for a kid to do that to their parent or for a spouse to do that to their other. And we can imagine that yearning that I had.

Starting point is 01:07:19 And it was a true, true fucking yearning. So it was, I think that night or the night after, I decided that I was going to do a deep DMT session. And before every DMT session, you know, you always, I always have a moment of gratitude, a moment of prayer. You're setting your intention. You know, what are you going to, whatever? What's the mood that you're trying to hit? And it really was about gratitude, appreciation, share, you know, share thankfulness. And I went deep.

Starting point is 01:07:48 I went fucking really deep. Now, I've done DMT hundreds and hundreds of times. So I'm very used to the beauty of what is in that space. And I had a blast through session. And I was in that, that vibratory hum where I was blist out. Not only my five senses were completely elevated, but I had all the other ones. It was the epitome of a beautiful DMT transatlant. transcendental session, right? And then God, and whatever that voice was conveyed to me,

Starting point is 01:08:19 Adam, so, and I was, so what I was, actually, I was sitting there saying thank you. So I'm sitting there truly in awe, right? And I was, I'm holding myself, hugging myself under the covers, thanking God, myself, my body, my brain, whatever, that DMT, all of the things to be like, wow, like, I'm experiencing this. Thank you. Like, this is it. This is fucking bliss. And, And that's when God, in essence, answered back to me, like, thank you for seeing me, for hearing me, for feeling me, for loving me. And then in the most heartfelt, heartbreaking thing, in essence, God got on his knees like I did, and was like, this is what I'm doing to society. This is what I'm doing to everybody that hasn't seen what you're seeing, which is just, fuck, see me, hear me, love me, feel me, know me, embrace me. I am God, I am this, I am this beauty.

Starting point is 01:09:09 but then instantly in anybody that's bent into that space knows God is you, you are it, you're one and the same, like it's not separate. Like it's a different layer, but it's all one, right? So then me and God are getting into this deep philosophical conversation about my role as a messenger to help people see here feel touch, whether it be psychedelics or not, to share my story, right? So having this awesome interaction and God is showing me how beautiful I am as well as they are and how we're all one.

Starting point is 01:09:37 And this is going on for a couple minutes, right? So this is fucking fantastic. And then I'm like, all right. So, but I'm like, but then what? Like, so what, what now? Like, what, what, what's the end? Like, is there some next level of human evolution? Do we, you know, is there some, like, do we ascend to the fifth dimension?

Starting point is 01:09:53 Do we blast into heaven? Does the rapture happen? You know, like, kind of what, what's next? And it was this awesome, beautiful, like, stepbrother kid interaction where he, like, he, she, it just kind of looked and was just like, nothing like this is it like what a what fucking more like this is it like you've you figured it out you're in this blissful state you see me you feel me you hear me you love me you know i am you am i we're all the same every sentient being is part of this thing where one of this whole time is

Starting point is 01:10:25 not linear and it was like and it was this really cool like ta-da like but not like oh let me pull back the the screen to the wizard of Oz and let me show you the mechanics it's like no There are no, it really is just, here's the mirror. Like, there is nothing else. And that, that experience was not only did it, then again, did that confirm my divinity, my blessedness, my, so much greater than my physical body. And I'm so connected to that energetic source. But it confirmed that, like, it's accessible.

Starting point is 01:10:55 It's there. And if everybody could just touch that once, that's kind of one of those experiential things where all you need to, you know, if you've never swam or jumped in water, you don't know what it feels like to be well. Like, you just have to know that once. Like once you touch God like I did, once you have that DMT experience. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:11:11 Once you're, once you're satiated, like when you're as low as I was pleading to be seen, heard, loved, held, all of that. And then to get it and then to expand that to a God level and then to then suck that back into your level.

Starting point is 01:11:25 And then it's just like toroidal kind of thing that just self-profetchally feeds of like, oh yeah. But then when I look at you in another kit, Like, everybody else is their own little divine little kind of donut of perfection. And with scars, warts, and shit and plaque that need to be removed. And that's where, again, my passion comes in where it's like, let's remove the plaque so everybody can really thrive in their own light.

Starting point is 01:11:48 And that doesn't mean everybody becomes Republican or a Democratic, everybody has the same view on, you know, sexuality or any, no, we can all have differing opinions. But you do it in a respectful way where you appreciate the other person's life experiences and you do it in a collaborative way where it's not fearful of hoarding resources or belittling or just the way I lived my life for 40 years as opposed to how I've lived it for the last five. And it's when you talk to people that have had a similar journey,

Starting point is 01:12:16 and that's why I think podcasts like you and the group that we're forming with with secular states of America are really important because it's not just some middle-aged white, gnarly-looking dude from New England. It's everybody. And the common story of looking for this. that sense of self and feeling comfortable in your own skin and feeling aligned is is a universal seeking and it's a universal right and it's there for everybody and all it takes is the the knowledge

Starting point is 01:12:42 to know you're worthy of it and then the time to explore it what about i would add in courage too because it's scary man it's fucking scary like i've i know you and so many people in our group and just so many anecdotal stories of people like there's a there's a there's a there's something fearful about letting go, about letting go of identity, about letting go of the things that you think really fucking matter, like that you're holding so tight to. Like, you're going to let go of that? You're going to let go of that? Like, it's scary. And psychedelics force you to do it because you get to a point on a high enough dose where you can't hold on. You can't. There's no way beginning that symbolic letting go in a heightened state of awareness.

Starting point is 01:13:34 that allows you to let go of things in the material world. Like that to me. And when you let go of those things, now you have space to grow. It's not about how much you can do. It's about how much you're willing to let go of. And, you know, in my case, I ruined everything in my life. Like, I am the self-destructive false that took away everything. So, like, you know, maybe it'd be like, well, be easy.

Starting point is 01:13:55 Just don't be an asshole. And those things wouldn't happen. But like even now in my own, like, my current state, it's like, so what am I seeking? Right. So I don't have the same financial security. I don't have, security would probably be the right word. Yes. But then I have this like, you know, philosophical conversation with myself where there is not security in anything at any level.

Starting point is 01:14:15 And if anybody thinks there is, so if you think you have your health and you'll always have it, or if you think you own it, you have a great job and you'll always have it. Or your wife will never cheat or your kids will always whatever. Or you'll, no, you can have a stroke. You can have an accident. Things can get taken away instantly. So the idea of not seeking security because I think that's a false illusion, that's allowed me to kind of take a step back and just kind of go with the flow a little bit. Yeah. But yeah, that's a.

Starting point is 01:14:42 So for anybody out there to think like, hey, I'm not going to, this is scary because it's going to, you know, fuck up my security. Yeah. But that security was false anyway. And, you know, a part of these realizations that can be tough are you may realize I don't like my job. I don't like my wife. I need a divorce. I want to move from this state. I don't want to be here. I want to be here. But that's tough. Like, so like in my case, it is. It was tough for me to walk away from Alicia and that, like, amazing relationship. But it's out of principle. It was tough for me to stand up to my dad and literally

Starting point is 01:15:14 say, I'll fucking kill you. But if you talk to my mom like that, I will fucking kill you. You know, it's like, but so it's tough to stand up for for the stuff you need to stand up for. But it's so liberating and so freeing and it's like it feels good when you stay aligned with yourself and um excuse me i got to wipe this not hanging out of my nose but uh yeah i don't know fucking my these types of stories that i really thought it would be you know let me talk about the fun psychedelics and some of the cool shit that i've seen but i've realized that there's plenty of people sharing those stories and there's plenty of people and and i like i love trip stories i love trip sessions i love the psychedelic Alex gray type type artwork

Starting point is 01:15:56 but think my, not think, I know my specific niche in lane in this psychedelic kind of journalistic space is to be the one that is willing to literally throw my heart and my balls on the table and say, here it is, and I'm doing it to help others and judge me as you may. But I know my words are helping people, and that's all the fuel that I need. And where that leads me, it's going to be exciting as hell because I'm not seeking money. I'm not seeking fame. Oh, so I guess to your point, like, you know, all those titles that people have, like in my case, I got them all wiped away instantly. So it's like, so I kind of had to rebuild myself.

Starting point is 01:16:36 But I think what your point is is you don't have to have all of your identity wiped away because of some traumatic, tragic event. Like you can, you can listen to those stresses and those signals in your life before they become suicidal or to the point where you're threatening to kill somebody over $900. Yeah, I agree. I think that that maybe you don't have to, I don't think you have to be 50 years old, although it kind of helps because you go through all those experiences. But yeah, those choices are there for you to make on a daily basis.

Starting point is 01:17:10 If you just have the cognitive horsepower, or you have the faith, or you've seen God, and you're able to understand that you're enough, then you can start making those decisions to be like, look, man, I'm not living the authentic life. I'm not being George. I'm not being Adam.

Starting point is 01:17:26 I'm being this illusion of what society wants me to be. But that story, that story about seeing God and touching God and him giving you the ta-da moment, it's right here. But being like, can you believe people don't see me? Like,

Starting point is 01:17:41 and that's kind of like what I was doing to my dad, though, was like, do you not see how awesome I am? Like beyond, all right, so the business successes, the college successes, the fact that I wrote a book,

Starting point is 01:17:50 like, it was almost like, what the fuck? Like, any dad would be happy to see me. Like, how do you not see me? Like, I'm awesome. And it's like, that's what God was not doing to me because I was fully seeing, but like, pretty much being like, how does such a large percentage of humans not see me?

Starting point is 01:18:05 Like, everybody has access to this. And that's where, you know, I'm really interested in endogenous DMT and getting to these elated states without smoking DMT or doing, you know, anything externally. And the fact that you can just get in in a deep meditative state, do some breathwork, calm yourself. And you can have a, you know, indogynously induced DMT session with God. And that's accessible to everybody every morning before they take their shower. And the people that do it, do it for the rest of their lives because they're like, you know, it's like brushing their teeth. Like, yeah, I'm going to connect with God before I fucking leave the house.

Starting point is 01:18:39 And why wouldn't you? But unless you know how, you wouldn't. And that's what I'm trying to share with people. And it's not follow Adam's method or take three hits of DMT, spend one time left, knock on the door once and you're there. It's whatever you need to do. It may be yoga. It may be a walk in the woods. It may be a Sunday morning fishing with a cold bear. And I'm being honest. Like that could be the meditative state that allows you to get into a translight state where you're watching the sun come up. You're hearing the birds chirping. And yeah, you're having a bear in your

Starting point is 01:19:08 fishing. But damn it, you're meditating and you're touching God. Do that. You know, and for some people, it may be going to church on Sunday. For some, it may, whatever. But you got to figure out what it is that makes you truly to you can induce your own goosebumps on command like that is an amazing skill set to have and and I have it like that what's all like I can get high at any point in the day and get static blist out literally by shutting my eyes and just thinking for a minute and I'm there like that's cool it is cool you know I'm reminded of the old Carlos castaneda books where he talks about different plant medicines being different allies and you've spoken quite a bit about different methods to touch God.

Starting point is 01:19:50 But earlier in the conversation, you were talking about doing large doses of mushrooms and then DMT. What do, in your opinion, in your experience, has each, has those two particular substances taught you different things? Can they get you to the same place? Or do you find one to be a certain way

Starting point is 01:20:09 and another to be a certain way? Or does one more align with you? Or what do you see as the similarities, differences, and teachings from both of those substances? And when do you use them? why. Yeah, I think there are some broad categories that apply. But then

Starting point is 01:20:24 to separate it out. So I'm friends with this woman who grows like 25 different strains of shrooms, of psychedelic shrooms. She's kind of refined her process where, you know, some are better for anxiety, some are better for depression, some are better for visual journeys, some are more somatic,

Starting point is 01:20:41 some of, you know, so even within the different groups, I think there's different whatever, you know, flavor, just like with different strange of wheat. You know, if somebody smokes a strong indica, they'll go to bed. If somebody smokes a, you know, good setiva, they're going to be, you know, up and running. So, but for me, it was a very, very clear shrooms were inner, reflective. And it was, it was more just, I had my five senses and they were warped on psychedelics. So it was, you're still breathing, I mean, you're still

Starting point is 01:21:12 touching, seeing, feeling, but it was just everything's warped and weird. And it was inner reflective. DMT was not only are you your those senses didn't feel drugged up they felt more natural like the veil was being removed that they were just being more like highly sensitized and that those five senses multiplied to 25 or 50 so that I think that's where that common theme of more real than real people say often about the DMT experience because you're just getting so many data points but you know there's a lot of what's the intention why you're doing it what's the dose but I brought this up with somebody the other day and then they were talking about You know, we were talking about the differences in what to use and what would be better for some. And, you know, like some people use LSD creatively. And that's a different feeling. That's a completely different feeling. But somebody was talking about ibogaine and how, like, chemically, it does something with like the neurotransmitter receivers in your brain. And that, you know, it's more than just, well, you could do shrooms or DMT or Ibegain to help with PTSD.

Starting point is 01:22:11 It's like, no, ibogaine is used for PTSD because it actually does something with the neurochemistry of the brain. and it allows for, you know, neurogenesis to occur. So there are some, but that's where like the Strassmans and the Gallimaws and the people that are actually studying this, that's, there is that data that's out there. My personal experience is, I love doing shrooms for my inner reflective work. And it really is, that's the intention. What can I learn about myself? When I do DMT, it's more what can I be exposed to?

Starting point is 01:22:39 What's out there? Like, how can I sensitize my filter to take in more, to take in more information? And then a couple months ago I was exposed recently to, and this is where it's going to be unique and individual, but there's so much there to explore. I was exposed to 5MEO DMT for the first time a couple months ago. So you have the Bufo frog DMT, which is, you know, from the Sanoa Desert Frog. Then there's synthetic DMEO, which is obviously made in the lab. But the one that I was using was made from our Yopo seeds. So it was a plant-based MEO DMT. You know, that that resonated with me because it was natural. It was something that I could take in. And I,

Starting point is 01:23:14 I got comfortable with 5MEO on one day, and then the next day we incorporated 5MEO with shrooms, LSD, and MDMA over like an eight-hour period. Wow. It was, so, you know, you had to some, like that. So it wasn't, it wasn't too, well, it was, it was a gram of shrooms. So that, that's a, that's a small dose, right, a gram of shrooms with lemon tech. Notable, noticeable. It was a full dose of LSD, a full dose of MDMA.

Starting point is 01:23:41 And then the 5MEO was in a vape pen and I just kept. ripping it like I had it there to just keep going. But I had two people sitting with me. I had a wife who was chanting and singing and playing a guitar. I had her husband next to me, channeling his energy. I had the wood stove going. Actually, there's a picture in the book at the end of it where I said that's the one that was taken by my friend Shelley. So I was in, basically, I just sat like that for eight hours and different levels of vibration. So as, you know, as the LSD kicks in, that's going to be different from the somatic feeling of the MDMA. And then that's, going to be, you know, and it was all done at certain intervals to elicit certain feelings. And

Starting point is 01:24:19 I went in that meeting kind of, not meeting, but, but that retreat and with them being, not cocky, but being like, you know, I'm the experience like, and I've done this hundreds of times. I'm going to like, whatever, give me the highest dose and I'm just going to, I'm going to go do my thing. And I was so glad I didn't do that. I followed their advice. I went with their kind of protocol. I went with their program. And I just learned so much about myself. about my body, about those different chemicals and plant medicines and drugs or however you want to word it. So I think intention behind the use of them are going to be important. And I think what works for each individual is going to be different. And actually that particular scenario,

Starting point is 01:25:01 those people do hold retreats. And she was saying about how they had this gnarly like Delta Force guy there who was like one of the most like rough and tumble alpha male guys did that whole process that I was saying. And it didn't like, it didn't crack them. Like there just wasn't. wasn't getting to him. And then she offered regular, well, regular, and NDMT. And that was as soon as he hit that, you know, recalling her story was it instantly resonated with his body in a way where he knew he felt comfortable, that this was the molecule that he was going to use for self-exploitation.

Starting point is 01:25:32 He explored it further. And that was the night that he finally was able to open himself off and then become part of the group and then, you know, get the therapy that he needed. So I don't think it's a one-size-fits-all. I don't think, you know, dose is going to be. dependent and then intention. You know, there's a place for a micro dose to clean the house on a Sunday on a half of gram of shrooms. But then, you know, the last time I did shrooms, I did 6.1 grams. And I was like, I want to go, I want to go pretty deep. And I shut the shades. I put my

Starting point is 01:25:57 eye thing on, you know, and it's, so what's your intention and what are you trying to get out of it? But I think the worst thing people can do is just listen blindly to what somebody else's suggestions are or think that it can't be dynamic and changes can't be made on site because I think you always have to listen to your intuition and listen to your gut and bail if you feel like you need to bail or lean in when you feel like you need to lean in. And, you know, with that eight hour experience, for the first hour or two or three, not to say I was holding back, but, you know, you're getting accustomed to it. It was finally when I was like, all right, I'm comfortable. These people are protecting me. I can finally fully let go and go. And I did. And yeah, I had a really beautiful experience that day as well. I just you can imagine. Yeah. Like, first off, that's, I've never even heard of that combination before. And like, that would freak me, that would freak me the fuck out, especially around people.

Starting point is 01:26:52 Like, you didn't do that giant dose and be around people. But you couldn't, I don't know if I could do that dose alone in the dark room without freaking out either. But isn't it, don't you, don't you find it weird sometimes? At least for me, I find it weird to be around people. Like, my use with psychedelics is, you know, I've never gone. to a retreat. And like, I don't particularly want to be around anybody. I'm going to do a giant dose with six, 12, 14. I'm going to do it. I want to be in a room. I know my family's okay. And I got 10 hours to just be in this room alone. But I don't know how what, what is the relationship

Starting point is 01:27:27 with the retreat? Like, what do you get out of a retreat and being around people that you wouldn't get around being at your own enclave? That's a fantastic question. And I think there's a few points to to draw out. So I personally, I would say 99% of the time that I've done it has been in the comfort of my own home, in my bedroom, either by myself or whether it be Alicia or, you know, another person that I trust. That being said, I learned so much from this retreat. What was the name of the retreat? Can you say? It's on the call that I sent it in the group message today. Okay. So it's kind of like an invite only type ship, but it is accessible. There's a name. It's Sage Soul. So I sent it to the group, so it's not like it's some like hidden type shit. Right. I just wanted to give them

Starting point is 01:28:08 credit if they want a credit. But I think for me to kind of add just the group mentality, which I didn't think would be so important, was my story about going to Monroe Institute. So that was a week-long stay at their campus in Virginia, and there was 25 of us. And without getting into the story of the Monroe technology and the hemacink and the auto body, which is really psychedelic. And I wrote a paper combined or comparing DMT states to the auto body states of Monroe. And there are a lot of different similarities. But I mentioned that because the camaraderie and the sharing from the group, it was so amazing. Like that first night when everybody did the introductions and everybody kind of set the tone to be like,

Starting point is 01:28:47 all right, this is a safe space. We're not judging. We're here to learn. We're here to grow. That made that retreat so much greater than me just sitting in a dark room with headphones on listening to their technology. And that was the first time I ever really realized the synergistic effect of sharing through that growth process.

Starting point is 01:29:07 But this was the first time that I ever did a psychedelic retreat. And I'm kind of not necessarily on record saying, but I've said before, I'm not necessarily interested in doing an ayahuasca retreat down in South America where you're getting bitten by mosquitoes and you've got a shit in an outhouse

Starting point is 01:29:20 and you've got 15 people purging and shit next to you and you got people moaning and you're so taking on in all their dark energy. And like, there's a lot there that doesn't sound appealing. But then, and I actually was just on the podcast with Iowa Ayahuasca podcast is actually the name, and the guy owns a retreat down in Colombia. And there's some beautiful aspects of traditional medicine, of ceremony, of respect for the history of it.

Starting point is 01:29:47 You know, so there are, there are, I don't want to just blanket statement being like, yeah, I wouldn't do that. I think on the right scenario, it could be really good. This particular situation where I went out was they're primarily servicing veterans with PTSD. They're doing couples sessions. They're doing group women's retreats. they're hitting, they're primarily focused on mental health issues and helping people reduce, you know, their trauma and suffering. So that was, that was the appeal of working and collaborating with them. So they actually reached out to me to say, hey, can we work together? Because I, you know, to kind of get some of my DMT experience. And what I went there, what I received from them, which I think is helpful is, so I went there telling them basically, excuse me, whatever the doses give me triple.

Starting point is 01:30:30 Whatever the protocol is, I'm going to just jump right in it. Like, I thought in my mind, mind. I want it just to experience the full blur. I want the triple black diamond and whatever. Like, I'm here for the white out five MEO. I just want to fucking, I want it. Their suggestion was, and I'm glad that I didn't, was they had four vape pen strengths. So they had a vape pen that was cut to one 16th, one to cut to one eighth, one to cut to one fourth, and then one that was 50-50, which was in essence their strongest one. and I've actually mirrored this technique telling other people about how to use DMT and I think it's applicable because if you were to do regular NNDT or 5MEO DMT and just

Starting point is 01:31:11 right from the first time do a full blast off like the Terrence McKenna four rips or three rips and just have a full blast out I think it would be terrifying it would probably not be beneficial and it probably wouldn't be something that you'd want to do again where this method was slow ebb and flow you're having this dance so the first hit you're barely getting any feeling is in sensation you know it's a three second draw with a three second hold a little you know vibration a little bit of tingling in your lips you're basically just getting a feeling for it then you take you know a five second draw of that lower strength hold it for five seconds then when you're feeling ready and there's no rush you've got all afternoon to do this you know it's not like you've got a limited amount

Starting point is 01:31:51 or you've got an hour so when you feel ready to go to the next strength all right well now we're going to go to the next strength for three seconds, then five, and then the next seconds. And then, you know, so it was really an hour and a half into it. Now I was comfortable working up to the full strength pen because I knew my body as a vessel could handle it. Right. I wasn't intimidated by the sensations. I felt comfortable now with these two strangers that weren't strangers, right?

Starting point is 01:32:12 So to your point, who the fuck of these people? Are they going to start touching my toes or start, you know, like, is this guy going to teabag me? Like, I don't know. But now I'm feeling like, all right, they're legit. I'm in a safe place. And I'm actually, I'm actually now picking up their energy. And then it was, all right, Adam, you're on your own.

Starting point is 01:32:28 Like, here's the highest pen. Hit it as long as you want. Hold it for as long as you can. And then, you know, then I had that full whiteout experience of that five MEO, which is a complete different disconnect from NNDMT, which is all fractal and like spin and mandals and shit. MEO is not that. It's a white out with a vibratory kind of visceral feeling.

Starting point is 01:32:47 But I say that because a couple weeks ago, I probably about a month ago, I had a DMT session here at my house and it was, And I wanted to go deep. So I whacked it. I whacked it hard. And man, I, like, this was one of the first time I felt was why I got, like, taken out of a spaceship and, like, removed from my house.

Starting point is 01:33:03 And, like, I was just literally kind of holding on. But I was laughing because it's a familiar sensation. I didn't, like, I knew I wasn't in fear. But I kept thinking about my buddy who he's thought about maybe doing DMT. And I was like, man, if Dave did this, he would fucking wig out and be like, Adam, what are you doing? Like, why would you ever fucking smoke this shit? And why would you ever give this to me?

Starting point is 01:33:23 Because it would be terrifying. Yeah. But now if I gave him my vape pen and said, hey, we're going to spend the afternoon, bring your pillows and blanket, and here's the low dose, have that, have a couple of drinks of juice and we'll work into it. I think then at the end of the day, if he had that, like, oh, shit, it would have been like, oh, wow, this shit's great. Like, that's what can happen if you go full blast. So to answer your question, I think it is nice to have somebody just to hold a safe space for you. So even the first time I did DMT, I had my best friend there to just, and we weren't integrating. He wasn't telling me, hey, what did you see or what that means?

Starting point is 01:33:54 It was just, I knew if somebody hit the doorbell or if something happened, he was there. So there is something to have somebody to have space there for you. And then it is, I think it's, it is important maybe for the people that are just getting into it, that there is some value to have somebody that has some experience with that particular molecule. And, you know, I think like that's something that I offer, whether, and not even necessarily like sitting with somebody smoking DMT with them, but just for having a conversation with somebody before they do it to be like, hey, listen, this is what to expect. This is what you're going to feel.

Starting point is 01:34:23 as opposed to just getting some on the street ripping it and seeing what can have. Because that will be, it will blow your mind. I mean, you know, you're not going to smoke DMT and come back and be the same. So you're going to really be prepared for what you're going to handle. So pros and cons to both. But now I say once you get comfortable with it, there is nothing better than being alone with a DMT pen in the darkness, meditating, doing your own thing. That is fantastic once you get comfortable with that space.

Starting point is 01:34:48 But I'm glad I had people there for the first time. And I'm glad I learned techniques from people that were more. more knowledgeable. And so on that point, like, I've, I've never done ibogaine. Obviously, that requires, like, medical kind of attention. I would, I know, you'd want somebody to be there for that. I've never done ketamine. Um, I don't know. Like, do I feel comfortable I could do it at my, at home by myself? Yes, but maybe it would be good to have somebody that is a ketamine expert to kind of maybe be there with me. And also individual. Maybe that's too, like some people like working out at the gym alone and just they get their routine. They go, they put the headphones in and keep everybody away.

Starting point is 01:35:20 and some people only like the classes with 30 people and they only want the aerobics classes and that's what they get benefit from. So I don't think it's right or wrong. I think it's, you know, what do you feel? And maybe you can do both the 30-person class and the solo treadmill. Yeah, it makes sense.

Starting point is 01:35:37 It's a definite experience and it's unique to the individual for sure. Adam Butler, man. Covered a lot today, man. That was a fantastic conversation, man. I'm grateful that you were willing to go deep and be vulnerable, man. Appreciate that. Thank you. It's important. And, you know, I'm kind of leaning into, obviously, the title of the book being the Alchemist of Tears. And, you know, as I, as I think about not just necessarily like business branding and what we move forward, but like, I love DMT. DMT saved my life. That first book has opened up so many doors. And I, and I plan on exploring DMT for the rest of my life. Do I want to be the DMT guy? Not necessarily. Like, even my next book in the field guy series is about psychedelic integration. Again, super, super important topics. And I, and I happily want to talk about.

Starting point is 01:36:20 integrating psychedelics, but the conversation does go way beyond that to five-year-olds to 95-year-olds, and that is how do you alchemize pain, trauma, tragedy, tears. And yeah, so I changed all my feeds on my social media to alchemist of tears. I just started a new website, Alchemist of Tiers, this new book, obviously. So I never, again, I thought I'd be either the entomologist or the rich real estate guy or the, I don't know, not the fucking Alchemist, the Tiers of all things, but here we are. whatever, you know, it's my lot. And maybe the most important thing is, is I'm not running from it anymore. Like, I'm not, I'm cool with it. I'm not worried about being judged by any guy or woman. I'm not worried about not being invited to certain conferences or being part of the mainstream, whatever. Like,

Starting point is 01:37:06 there's plenty of people for that. I'll be the guy that sits in the room with the misfit, awkward guy that no one else will talk to and I'll help, fucking, I'll help remove some of his plaque. And that, to me, is the most rewarding thing. But to your point earlier, it's heavy. And so I need, I need my releases. I need my purge. You know, so I feel it's like I'm a sponge. I can suck all these things in, but then I need to go and release that. And that's where my meditative sessions come in and important. That's where my connection to sauce, to God, excuse me, because I then pass that on to that energy, you know? And it's like, I feel like that's, that's my role is a transmuter or alchemizer of not only my pain, but other people's. And I feel like I can, I can take their shit

Starting point is 01:37:45 and throw it and make it manure and grow flowers out of it where, and as soon as I show people how to do that. It's kind of like, oh, I can do that for myself. And that's, and it's kind of having a little bit of teacher in me, that's such a great rewarding feeling when you teach somebody how to do something profound. And it's not like, oh, yeah, smoke my drug or listen to the CD. It's, no, I can find, you can find that in yourself. And if I may, as we're wrapping up, I can, I can share this beautiful story of the power of sharing this message, but then also, if you have the opportunity to do this for somebody, please, please, please do it. Last, weekend or two weekends ago, I was at this session that my friend Metschew held. So she's actually the one

Starting point is 01:38:25 that grows all of those strains of mushrooms. And she's helped a lot, a lot of people overcome bullshit and trauma in their life. So she had this really great meeting at a like juice bar in Westfield, Massachusetts. And there was a group of probably about 15, 20 people there that came for her talk. And I was invited kind of as like a guest of honor to to kind of sit beside her and kind be, you know, like we were the two kind of psychedelic experts. And so I shared some of my raw story, right? So I instantly let people know that I'm, whatever, I let their God down because I let my God down and I'm not, I do have this, I'm different from the look that I had, right? Because I kind of walked in and people like, who the fuck is this guy? So like I need them to know,

Starting point is 01:39:04 no, I'm the soft guy, not the tough guy. So we're sharing all these information and then we're wrapping up 20 minutes into it. A lot of people who shared this story. And then Metschu asked, you know, is there anybody else that has anything that they'd like to say? And this woman was probably in her 60s, dressed in like these really, like cool hippie clothes, like all these really beautiful colors. And she says, you know, I'm a past cocaine addict and I'm a past alcoholic. She goes, you know, I'm really trying to do the inner work and find myself. She goes, I did go to an ayahuasca retreat. And she goes, I didn't, I didn't have any feelings. It didn't hit me. She's like, they gave me more of it and it still didn't happen. So she goes, now I'm sitting there in this ayahuasca

Starting point is 01:39:42 retreat being like I'm even too broke for this ayahuasca retreat and like even you know so she's having all of this kind of in a dialogue and she's sharing this with ourselves because then you know the next question is kind of like well what do you guys recommend i should do in a psychedelic way should i take shroom should i do DMT and you know she's sharing this story and she's saying how you know but i did take some lessons out of it and you know now when i'm when i'm at home and she and she talks about how when she's looking in the mirror and then she starts kind of hesitating a little bit how she's like you know And I know I've learned some things and I know I've got a lot to be proud for. And then, like, as she started talking nicely about herself, she kind of, it was, it was hesitating.

Starting point is 01:40:22 And this whole time I'm looking at this woman. And I have, like, and again, I'm very open about my sexuality with everybody, right? And that was one thing I expressed very openly about how comfortable I am about my sexuality. So I stopped here. I was like, you need to tell yourself how fucking beautiful you are. I'm like, you are so beautiful. I'm like, I've been sitting here looking at your feminine energy. And I said this out loud.

Starting point is 01:40:40 I'm like, and no sexual things. Like I said, I'm not trying to get in your pants. I said, but you are fucking beautiful. And you need to see that you're beautiful. And you need to tell yourself that you're beautiful. The whole 15 people or 20 people in the room, raw, started clapping, like, screaming like, yeah, yeah. So then she instantly starts to get this, like, flush of like,

Starting point is 01:40:58 yeah, like, not only is he saying this. And he means it because he, and he's not saying he's trying to fuck me or doing anything. He just told his story. But then he, I just got confirmed by the entire room that I am beautiful. And then you saw her whole demeanor changed. And like, and I said it. And I'm like, and so tonight, like, when you're brushing your teeth, I'm like, promise me that you're going to tell yourself how beautiful you are. And she's like, I will. And I mean, and that lady left walking on fucking clouds when she left that juice bar. And what did I say? I said that a woman's beautiful. Because she was, I didn't lie. I didn't fabricate. I wasn't trying to be manipulative. I wasn't trying to get anything on of her. I wasn't trying to fuck her. I was looking at this broken woman who just has a hard time calling herself beautiful. And she was. She was a beautiful, beautiful woman. And she was a beautiful, beautiful woman. And every. every aspect. But she just needed somebody to tell her, it's okay to tell yourself, you're beautiful. That's why, you know, throughout this conversation, I've let out some of my rawness,

Starting point is 01:41:49 but I've always peppered it, but I know how great I am. I know my divine connection. I know with all of my Watson bullshit that I am fucking beautiful. And that I joked about us being handsome. We are fucking handsome. You know, and it's like, and it's okay to say that. But there are a lot of people that can't look at themselves in the mirror and say, I'm beautiful, I'm handsome. And, you know, my routine before every podcast, including this one, as I do, I stand in the mirror and I say Adam I love you I'm happy that you're alive that your message is important that your message is helping people and that like yeah share it so every time I sit down for a podcast I'm fucking jazzed up like I'm not like I've got this imposter syndrome no one's gonna want to hear what I have to

Starting point is 01:42:27 say or you know what this this one's only going to get 12 views where I got to have this 50,000 view minimum it's like fuck no man like I am I just I guess whatever I appreciate who I am and I try to let people know that that's accessible to them and that lady left there like that and if I could, and I want to say this without being too judgmental in case they are listening, because I feel as I met a lot of new friends and fans that, like, all 50 of those people, I think, bought my book and all 50 of those people started following me. But there was this other gentleman who, and I don't think he would be, I think he would be okay with me saying this. Physically, he didn't look like the average man of his age, right? So a little bit shorter, a little bit

Starting point is 01:43:04 wider, a couple ailments, he had a cane, he walked a little bit different. His voice was a little bit off. And he's sitting there in this group and he's saying about how he's just trying to find a group of friends. He's trying to feel a group where he can fit in and how he can be accepted, where he's not going to feel judged, how he's not. And he's saying this and he's like, and this group feels great. He's like, I just feel like, we're friends. And he's like, this is the first time I've been able to share my story and for it to be, you know, to be received and not for me to be judged. And so I had, I had three books with me that I brought there. And I gave all, you know, I gave three him out. And I gave, I said, one's for you. And one was for this other lady who was the hilarious

Starting point is 01:43:40 older woman. But I said, I said, you know, I'm personally going to give you a book. I'd like for you to have it. And afterwards, so he was so grateful, so appreciate it, because I singled him out. So I was the speaker of a guest of honor. And yet I'm calling him out to be like, yeah, I'm choosing you for whatever. But then afterwards, everybody's mingling and we're talking. And I go up to him. And he's saying thank you. And I'm like, you know, man, I said, people that look like us. I said, but we don't, we don't fit into society too well. And I said, you know, we got to stick together just to let you know that, that we're, like, me and you, we're the same way together. Now, not to say that I'm some fucking supermoder, but like I had these nice

Starting point is 01:44:17 tweed, tweed pants on, like, patent leather shoes. I had a fucking vest. I had this really nice sweat. Like, I was, I was, you know, again, I was, I was dressed up. So, yeah, here I am looking at this guy, dressed all shop, you know, nice glasses, nice whatever, smelling good, being like, And this guy doesn't look like that in every aspect. And me being like, hey, guys, you know, buddy, people that look like us. Like, I welcomed him in, like, you and I are the same. And you saw him for the, like, he just needed some bro love. He just needed another guy.

Starting point is 01:44:47 Yeah. To be like, yeah, man, like, cool. Fucking, I'll, I'll give you a book. Like, I'll give you my phone number. Like, you're my friend. Why? Because you're a little bit, you don't look like Tom Brady or the other jock. And so that six year a woman that I said, you're beautiful, say you're beautiful.

Starting point is 01:45:01 And then the crowd supported her. And then this other guy. who everybody probably made fun of him and it was like who the fuck is he i embraced him i said i'll be your friend and then i made him be like oh you and i you're you're part of you're we're we're we're this together and that's what i think if everybody can bring something like that to the table it's not what if you have a phd or three-letter you know thing at the end of your name it's if you can relate to people like that that's that's what we can do and i've met so many people that have the same desire that i have and i'm learning from them so it's not like i've got this super power it's like

Starting point is 01:45:32 oh yeah, I'm going to teach this method. It's natural and innate in everybody. Once that plaque gets removed, once you know yourself and love yourself, it becomes so easy to look at those people and be like, yeah, they're certainly not lesser than, I'm certainly not greater than, and if I can give those person a few sincere, honest words,

Starting point is 01:45:48 now I didn't lie to either one of those people, that guy or that woman, everything I said was true, honest, sincere. So when I said it, they knew it wasn't just some pleasantry. I can't wait to do that with a group of 500 to a group of 5,000. I can't wait to do that with the 10 next books. And that's why I'm really passionate about being allowed to share my story on podcasts like you or yours. But then also collaborating with the group that we're collaborating with because it's like, get us on stage. Like me and you on stage, whether it be in Hawaii or in Rhode Island, let's fucking do it because there are people that that will help.

Starting point is 01:46:21 And I'm not patting ourselves on the back. I think we can save lives. And if we can do one, it's worth it. And I think we can collectively, again, you get some of the people that we talk to and we're going to be talking to later on. afternoon you get some of those people on stage and man they can they'll be able to rock it and that's what i'm i know i'm doing that and i'm gonna i'm collecting the resources myself i'm gonna i'm collecting my own shit like whatever whether it be through them or not i we this message will be on stage and it will help people yeah i'm looking forward to that day and i think it's a you know you often

Starting point is 01:46:55 hear the term um like the psychedelic renaissance being thrown around and you know we saw it at psychedelic science and there's all kinds of great events out there. But when I hear your story and so many people in the Psychedelic Writers Guild and so many people that we both know collectively, just being that beacon of light, people in a room, whether it's at your workplace, whether it's in your family, whether it's volunteer at the boys and girls club, wherever you're at, man, whatever you're doing. If you can be the light in the room, people will gravitate towards you and that light will change them. But it does come from from alchemizing the tears, man.

Starting point is 01:47:36 It's such a brilliant title. And the more that we've talked, the more that I realize how brilliant that title is, man. It really fits you. And I think it speaks to the community, you know? If you can alchemize the tears,

Starting point is 01:47:48 then that's the one thing we all share is the pain. Right. But now, like, you know, my 17-year-old niece, who's in high school, she's not going to have the same tears

Starting point is 01:47:56 to alchemize that I have as a 45-year-old man, and nor she, am I expecting her to do DMT and Shroom to address it? but the story of everything we just discussed still applies. And same thing to the person, end of life who's in their 80s. I'm not saying, hey, let's send them out to an ayahuasca retreat.

Starting point is 01:48:12 But it's, yeah, let's, again, I know I've referenced it so many times. It was such a beautiful interview with Susie Rose about how allowing yourself to receive the grace. And just allowing to know that your word. So I keep saying, you know, that you're worthy of the time and energy for yourself. You're worthy of grace. And if God is a word that you don't like or maybe then use infinite energy or universal source or whatever it is, receive that something greater than and then know that you are way more

Starting point is 01:48:37 than your physical body and and yeah enjoy life it brings up another point that I think about and I'm like as much as I would love psychedelics to be mainstream like I don't think it can ever be that way like I think that it exists on the peripheral

Starting point is 01:48:58 it exists beyond the pale because of all the work that you have to do yeah I'm not saying there's not It's a place for psychedelics and fun. I think the recreational aspect of psychedelics is a wonderful thing. Like going to a concert or doing something. Like, I can't say enough. I think it's all medicinal, especially the recreational of it.

Starting point is 01:49:20 But for to be someone in my seat or your seat, it doesn't come without a lot of stigma. Like if you're going to come out and talk about psychedelics and you have kids or, you know, it's people look at you a little. little bit different. Like, dude, that guy's a drug addict. That's what that person? Even people in your own family. Like, dude, what the fuck is this guy doing? You know what I mean? So I want people to be aware out there that like the path of the psychedelics is definitely beyond the pay off for some level. And I don't see that ever changing. Am I being too pessimistic on that? I think you're being realistic. But I think that's where true, honest, calm, intelligent stories

Starting point is 01:49:59 like we're sharing right now are helpful. And so, you know, and you, and me even saying, hey, listen to this story and you kind of being like, wow, that's a lot when I, I mentioned about the MDMA, the LSD, the, the shrooms and the, but now I came back and I told my parents that story, and that was their response too. It was like, wow, you combined all of that. But then you look on the counter and there's, there's eight different bottles of pills. There's three SSRIs. There's two to keep them happy. There's three for glycerol. It's like, you're combining 12 every day. I combine four, one afternoon and maybe you'll do that once a year. You know, so this idea of like, Oh, taking drugs. We all take drugs. It's what are we calling them? And what are the pharmaceuticals? You know, like that, that's the. And if we can go back to the honesty, integrity, character type thing, those pharmaceutical companies have a fiduciary, fiduciary right to their shareholders to increase profit and to make money, not to cure diseases. And that's right there in their business plan. They're not covering it. They're not hiding it. They're basically saying, here are my boundaries. Here are my gates of clarity. Fucking, we won't kill you, but we're not trying to help you. We're trying to keep you as a customer and make money.

Starting point is 01:51:05 for people not to see through that and to like that's the society's way of saying that's okay or that literally every fucking restaurant is based off of booze and most like every every social event every concert every sporting event it's just booze booze booze booze booze that that's fucked but I'm not saying every place should be shrooms and smoke weed and walk around with DMT but it's to say that people are using substances like that these are wrong. So is caffeine. So is sugar. So is whatever. You know, like, so it's just a matter of using them. But now, and I think your point, and some people have said this. So it well, it sounds like you were an alcoholic and you just, you replace one addition for the other.

Starting point is 01:51:50 Well, if you've done DMT hundreds of times, then what the fuck does that mean? I, not that I need pushback because whatever, fuck you. I don't, I don't need to prove my story. And I'm not trying to convince anybody. But like say one of the things that, and this happens often, not necessarily to me, but somebody finds Jesus Christ, right? They, they, they, find religion, they find God, and that's who they relate to. Now they're going to church on Wednesdays for whatever, and then on Sunday. Well, you do that for two and a half, three years. You're going twice a week, 52 times a week a year. You just went to church 150 times. So if I said I did DMT 150 times, and you're saying, well, that's excessive. Why would you need to do that once you've

Starting point is 01:52:26 seen the DMT space? You're there, right? Well, then why the fuck do you need to go to church two days a week? Or for 30 years, you've gone to church thousands of times. It's because it's not what you've seen God wants or interacted with Jesus once and you're good. It's like because you're going back there for that charge, for that knowledge, for that camaraderie, for the, for the singing of the song, for the smelling of the incense, for all for the ritual aspect of it. And clearly Christians different from Hindu is different from Islam, is different from atheists, is different from Gnostic. But they all have a component of taking time away from the day-to-day bullshit, looking within, connecting with some sauce that's rated than yours and within, and then actually integrating that

Starting point is 01:53:08 into your life. And yeah, that's that universal thread and message that I think is being pushed out of society and not haphazedly. You know, I think that's, but that's where us truth tellers, and that's where, again, I'll, I'll die on my hill of integrity, honesty, character, authenticity, and fuck it. Again, I'll happily, I'll happily die on that stake. And when I do, You know, kind of pass my final breath. I'll be happy that I died on that, not look how much granite and marble I sold. Look how many houses I had or look how many houses I fucking rehabbed. I don't, I don't know.

Starting point is 01:53:45 That's not what I'm trying to seek anymore. Do you think that you'll ever stop taking DMT? I think I will never make any definitive statement ever again in my life about anything because as soon as you do. Yeah. That's a good answer. But now, there are times where I've gone months without it and really, really just kind of, but then there'd be weeks where I've done it five times a week. And it is just

Starting point is 01:54:08 kind of when it, when it calls to you. But I don't have, I don't feel like I crave it, need it, or I've never been like, oh, fuck, I need my DMT bump. So, and to the point I mentioned earlier, I know I can induce it naturally by just sitting and meditating. And it, it's a drip in the back of your nose. Like, you taste it. Like, I taste DMT dripping in the back of my throat when I meditate to that level. So even if I didn't have a pipe, I'm still getting high on DMT. It's just my own. Yeah. My relationship with psychedelics has changed vastly over the last, like 30 years, you know, and it started off as recreational. And then, you know, I almost followed the, I almost followed the, uh, the, the rules that you see like recreational, situational. But then, you know,

Starting point is 01:54:57 for me, it's changed later in life to be, I don't think medicinal is the right word. It covers a lot of what it is for me, but maybe spiritual in some level. And I agree with what you're saying. Like, you don't necessarily need it to get there. But for me, I don't, I see a long, continued relationship with psychedelics in my life. Like, they have really helped me embrace a full awareness of what's important to me and my family, in my relationship with God and the world. And I love that relationship with them.

Starting point is 01:55:33 And it changes, much like yours. I've went through periods where there's been giant doses multiple times a week and I've gone through, you know, six months without using stuff and I've changed around different psychedelics. But I really feel like it helps me get in tune with the bigger picture, maybe my higher self or maybe the person that I want to be or maybe God itself. But I really enjoy my relationship with psychedelics. And I think that they're a tool, like you said, no, not for everybody. but I think they are for, I think it's a birthright and that I really enjoy my experience with them. And I think if people do the research and they're willing to have the courage to try and they seek out all the resources and they're informed about it, it can be a tool that can really change your life for the better.

Starting point is 01:56:24 Absolutely. And I would say most of the people that I'm interacting with are typically people in their 40s, 50s, 60s, even 70s, where people, It's because everything else they've tried hasn't worked. It's the veteran who's been home for 10 years and still gets up every night because of the loud noises. It's the person that's been on SSRIs and still has the depressive anxiety. And they've done that for 15 years. So I think what this office too is just an opportunity to try something new. And at that point, like in my case, I had nothing to lose.

Starting point is 01:56:57 Like if I didn't figure it out, I was going to go kill myself. Bottom line. Like so it was, fuck it. Like, and I think, not to say, like, try psychedelics because you've got nothing to lose, but if, if you've tried the same medications, the same whatever, like, well, maybe, maybe it's time to take a step back. And then I, again, I shared that story about my dad because if, if I changed at 40, it's never too late. And if he's able to come to this, truly this full life change in Epiphany in his 70s, it really is never too late. And it, but that also, he's a great example of getting that plaque out of away. And actually, he had a, a, uh, a therapy session where the doctors were talking about actual plaque, like using that term in your brain. And I guess there's two types of plaque, and it's basically just like protein deposits.

Starting point is 01:57:41 But one of the types of plaque gets between the synaptic, so like the plaque stops the connection, so it can't have a firing. And then the other type of plaque, I guess, like actually congeals and clogs up the flow of certain liquids. So, you know, it's, yes, it's metaphorical, but it's literal. Like there are plaques in your brain and throughout your body

Starting point is 01:58:01 that really need to be shaken up and removed. And, yeah, again, multiple different modalities to do that. But I think, you know, and that's why I love collecting a group like this, because my message isn't going to hit with everybody, neither is yours, neither is, you know, mentioned Mia and Tanya, collect, like, we'll hit with all of us sharing our voices and with all of us sharing our stories. I think that will change the stigma in the taboo. And, you know, I mentioned that in the first article I wrote for PSA about that is in my

Starting point is 01:58:31 opinion, the biggest thing we need to do is work on that stigma and taboo. Yes, legislature, yes, you know, academics and access, but that, like, when I told my sister, I did DMT, and she's like, what is it? And I'm like, di-methyl trip to me. And she's like, oh, you're doing meth? Like, those are the conversations that we need to be like, no, Jessica. No, no. Nope, nope. It's just a metal group that's added. It's nothing, you know, but, but, but, and then I think this is a perfect example of how that actually translates into real life. My mother has been with me along this entire journey. Like when I was on the road, we talked almost every day. Like she's with my father. Like, right, so my mom, as I mentioned in the beginning of that book, my forever best friend, my

Starting point is 01:59:11 my fucking rock. Is she going to do DMT or shrooms? Probably not. Do I push them on her? Nope. Do I think like, hey, mom, your life would be so much better if you rip some DMT with me? No. Like, you know, I wouldn't, I would not do it with her. But she's, she's expressed no desire to do it. And I'm certainly not going to push that on her. But when she goes and gets her hair done and she's sitting there in the salon and there's a group of five or six women and every time she goes there's another group of five or six women and I know her and the shop owner talk about me often and like her and I kind of have some I'm actually giving her a book soon and but I say that where my mom is then able to go there and say you know hey this ayahuasca stuff or this DMT stuff or you know that that show

Starting point is 01:59:49 that you watch on 60 minutes about the ibo gain and the PTSD and the you know this is real life my son wasn't an alcoholic and then it's like she can go there and get her hair done in a 45 minutes, you know, share a five or ten minutes story about me, where then those people, maybe when they hear the story about shrooms from their neighbor, you know, isn't going to be so judgmental. Yeah. And that's, that's the importance of just spreading that ripple of stories where this isn't nasty, it's not dirty, it's not dark, it's not ugly, doesn't need to be done behind closed doors. It's not shameful.

Starting point is 02:00:21 It's, it's beautiful. It's wonderful. I mean, if it can turn me, this nasty, dark piece of shit guy into this guy who's talking about spreading life and love and light. And like that, that is not bad. That, that is not bad. And if it was all made up in my brain, if it was all me hallucinating, so be it. It changed me and it made me a better man. And not only me, but you as well. And it's, it's helped a lot, a lot of people. That's, yeah, that's the, I'm sure this won't be the last time we'll be talking about this. And I know this is the message that we're both really passionate about sharing because what's more

Starting point is 02:00:53 important than that. Like, there's plenty of people to sell mommelin granite or to tell you out to invest in stocks or whatever. plenty of people that can build you a deck. I don't know. I'm happy to be the guy to turn to when there's no one else to turn to like because you want to go fucking walk off into the woods. It's like, all right, cool. I'll walk off into the woods with you. We'll go talk. And because I have the balls to do it because I'm not afraid of what's in the woods. That's the point is that the scariest thing in those woods are within me and I've already named them, befriended them, and they're good. Like, those scary parts are there on command. So you want me walking those

Starting point is 02:01:24 woods with you because my scary parts will scare the shit out of the scary parts in those woods. So, but, you know, I say that I have control over that. And that's a great confidence to have. And that applies if I'm at a bar in Boston. That applies if I'm in the DMT realm or that applies if I'm on a road trip. Yeah, I have that spatial awareness and confidence that, again, it's not an arrogance or or like a false sense of security. It's a knowing of who I am. And I know what vibrates with me and what doesn't.

Starting point is 02:01:56 that that's maybe the easiest way to actually visualize it. You know, you think about like tuning forks. If you bang a tuning fork and it's the same resin or the same frequency, the guitar string will vibrate or the tuning fork will vibrate. And it's like once you know your core alignment and how your inner core vibrates, when you go to people like, it's very easy, hey, is that resonating in coherence with me or is it not? Or even worse, is it, you know, anti,

Starting point is 02:02:20 and it's actually lessening my coherence. And it's almost like you don't even need to talk. You can almost do it blindfolded. Like, you literally can just walk around the world to be like, am I humming higher, louder or softer? Am I, like, does this person make me feel really good or really bad? Does this, am I sitting at this job and it makes me feel fucking horrible every day? And I hate it here every day.

Starting point is 02:02:39 But then when I go to this job, it's like the best thing in the world. It's like, well, those are the things you listen to. So, you know, if you're going home every day and you see your spouse and you want to fucking puke, or every time you see your boss, you want to punch them in the face, like, get a new spouse and get a new boss. And that's going to be painful. But that's what some people really need to hear. Because what's the alternative? You stay in a marriage, be a dick,

Starting point is 02:02:59 and then your kids watch you grow up and be an asshole. Like, it's not going to help anybody. Yeah. Yeah. Making friends with the monster, man. Yeah, naming him, befriending him. And, yeah, not running from him. I'm happy with all of my parts and my monsters.

Starting point is 02:03:16 And I don't want any one of those things to go away, even that dark scary part, because God's a bit I have to need him to show up again. Again, if I'm walking through the proverbial dark forest with somebody, you want those there. I want them there. Yeah. Back to integration.

Starting point is 02:03:32 That's the next book. That'll be out in a couple weeks. So when does that? You got three weeks or a couple weeks before that lines up? How does that shake out? The editor has it right now. They're doing the final edits. But it's already cover designs done, you know, that the interior is all done.

Starting point is 02:03:47 So it's boughtless psychedelic integration field guide. And then it's got a clever subtitle. Well, basically it's, you know, practical advice on on meditation, on prayer, on integrating these lessons. Like, what does that mean? Like, some people don't even, you know, they get, can't meditate. I can't do yoga. I don't know how to pray.

Starting point is 02:04:03 It's like, it's not some set thing. Like, you can't do it wrong. And that's, that whole kind of book is about, again, learning to be yourself leaning into that. I did start the book off with the same chapter title as the DMT field guide, which is who the fuck am I? I think that vulgarity and that kind of like, you really do need to start all these conversations of inner exploration of with who the fuck am I and not, and I, with a pleading, hot felt on your knees crying like I really need to know who the fuck am I not some rhetorical

Starting point is 02:04:30 bullshit question and yeah so this I'm really proud of the field guide it goes deeper into some of the actual practical applications of taking this knowledge and applying it to your day to day life and I've already started the next one in the field guide series after that because it's just it's too relevant in my life which is going to be the um butler's um suicide prevention field guide and again just practical not that i've got the answers and i've got you know hey this is teacher don't read my book and you won't kill yourself it's just letting people know you're not alone. There are resources out there and here are some modalities to, you know, make you see yourself in the divine, beautiful light. And I'm going to share stories about, you know,

Starting point is 02:05:03 like the ones that I just shared with you. And if I can get those books out and then the children series out to kind of say the same thing to a younger generation, then I think I can sit back and then whatever, maybe get back into the real world at some point. But I've got, this is too fun helping people. And you're good at it, man. And I'm good at, yeah. And I'm fucking, and that's, And this is where I'm finally saying that. And like, so, like, I was a straight-A student. I was at the top of the game as a real estate investor. I was the top of the game as the top of the game.

Starting point is 02:05:33 Like, I'm good at this. And it's okay for me to say that. And that's like, it's taken a little bit for me to get comfortable with that because it's a hard thing to be good at. Like, who the fuck wants to be the alchemist of tears? Like, to your point, who the fuck wants to deal with? Like, so when I get off the phone with you, I've got, you know, a couple of emails I've got to respond to that people that are talking about killing themselves. Like, that's a, it's a heavy thing to do before you go to the gym.

Starting point is 02:05:55 It's not like, oh, I'm going to go to the Mothas Viny and sell 30 grand worth of a marble to some rich lady who's cute, who's wearing a sundress who wants me to come back over. No, I'm talking to some fucking drunk middle-aged guy who is like, but I'm telling you, I'm getting more benefit out of that. And so that's what I'm leaning into. Yeah. Well, I'm glad you're doing it, man. And like you said, this is definitely won't be our last conversation. And we've spoken a little bit about Tanya and we've spoken about Noah. and anybody out there listening, there's another great podcast.

Starting point is 02:06:29 There's a bunch of them. Clint Kyle has a great podcast. Check him out. Alex Detmering has a great podcast. Everybody should be reading Adam Mezzo's substack out there. There's so many great people in a psychedelic space that are really making a difference. And so anybody else that we need to shout out there? Well, we mentioned Mia potentially. She's going to be on our group again. So another just young woman, again, she wrote a book called Beauty and Grief, who just turned tragedy of her in her younger years into something beautiful.

Starting point is 02:06:57 And it's these real life stories that have to be told. And I think, and not there is a place for mainstream media. There is a place for the Michael Pollens and the names that are really, you know, popular out there. But the names you just mentioned, most people don't know. Most people don't know who the hell I am. Most people don't know who you are. And these are the stories that will hit. Will we ever become, I don't want to say it like that.

Starting point is 02:07:21 I want to limit ourselves. Like my goal isn't to become super popular and have millions of views on every one of my videos. My goal is to be the guy that's a reliable source of information. And I'm super excited to collaborate with everybody because I think we all bring so much to the table. I mean, there's movie makers, there's writers, there's podcast. There's like, I'm just really excited to see how this can go and where it will go once we get some funding and some opportunity to actually put this shit together because it resonates. I haven't been done one speech or been on one thing or where it has. hasn't been emotionally connected and people like,

Starting point is 02:07:55 yes, I want more of this, not once. So, yeah, a couple other great reasons. Peggy Dippen, she's amazing. Jesse Munreel, unbelievable, someone on the front lines, helping people in addiction and doing some of her own writing. I'd be here all day listing people off out there, but Adam, I'm super stoked you here, man. I'm grateful for this conversation,

Starting point is 02:08:17 looking forward to carrying over our chat at this next meeting in a little while. One more thing before we go, I got the Instagram QR code down there, but if people are listening to this right now and they want to check out the books, they want to reach out to you,

Starting point is 02:08:28 how do they do that? What do they find you? My email address is Books by Adam Butler at gmail.com, and I always offer free PDF copies of my books. Again, my goal is to get the message out there. So I have the PDF copy of this coffee table book. So if you just want to look at the pictures, I can send you the link to that,

Starting point is 02:08:46 and then the field guide I can also send you that. I'm most active on Instagram. and again, I change all of my feeds to Alchemist Atears. So that's kind of the brand I'm going to try to be leaning into. But I'm accessible. I'm available. If somebody feels like they want to talk to me personally, you know, right now I have space in my calendar for that. And it's something I really enjoy doing.

Starting point is 02:09:05 So I'm there. I'm available. I'm reachable. All right, ladies and gentlemen, reach out, check him out on Instagram. Check out all of his books. They're amazing. You will definitely love them. And more than that, you'll learn something.

Starting point is 02:09:17 And hang on briefly afterwards. Adam to everybody else. Thank you so much for hanging out with us today. I hope you have a beautiful day. It's all we got. Aloha. Thank you.

TrueLife - Adam Butler - Nothing Left To Hold Onto

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