TrueLife - Adam Lopez - From Honky-Tonks to Hit Songs: The Journey of a Country Music Star

Starting point is 00:00:01 Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark, fumbling, fear. through ruins maze, lights my war cry, born from the blaze.

Starting point is 00:00:49 The poem is Angels with Rifles, the track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Seraphene. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Come here. Ever, come here. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to this Friday with two D's for a double dose of the True Life podcast. I hope everybody's having a beautiful day. We're here with the one and only Adam Lopez, singer, songwriter, producer, performer,

Starting point is 00:01:22 cool individual, friend of mine, lifelong friend, Adam Lopez. There goes to the neighborhood, my friend. What's up, George? Dude, just stoked to be here, man. Where are you at these days? I'm all over the place. Right now I'm in Oceanside, California.

Starting point is 00:01:38 Nice, nice, man. I take that back. I'm in Carlsbad. What am I saying? I was in Oceanside this morning. Nice, man. Stop off at the, gosh, I can't think of that little cafe I used to go to. I forgot what it was called.

Starting point is 00:01:57 Tons of little great places to eat over there and Oceansides. It's changed so much since we were kids. Yeah, a big section of it around the pier has definitely changed. And then, like, the neighborhoods are still pretty much the same, though, which is kind of cool. Yeah. You know, you gotta get back in the I spent a lot of time. Yeah, you got to, man. What, uh, did you play,

Starting point is 00:02:20 are you playing any gigs over there in, in, uh, Oceanside, San Diego area? Uh, I've played a few with a friend's band just sitting in playing guitar. Um, but, um, nothing on my own calendar really until, um,

Starting point is 00:02:38 like in July, but it's all, so far, it's all northern California. Yeah, I kind of have an affinity for Northern California. My wife was born in San – well, she wasn't born in Santa Rosa, but her family lives in Santa Rosa. And I've been up there are a bunch to visit. It's so beautiful. It's such a more mellow, kickback part of California.

Starting point is 00:02:57 Yeah, it's – I feel like it's a different thing all together, and I love it. Like, I'm super drawn to certain areas up there where, like, I feel like that's where I want to get old, you know. If I ever get old, that would be a cool place to do it. I don't think I'm going to get old. Yeah. Yeah, I heard if you never grow old, you never slow down. I think it was Tom Petty who said that.

Starting point is 00:03:24 Yeah, I just think of Jay Adams. You don't stop skateboarding because you get old. You get old because you stop skateboarding. I'm on a pretty beat-up body, but I still feel good. I still skate almost every day. I'm surprised that you haven't mounted a tracker trucks to your guitar. Man. So what, dude, you got a brand new album coming out, man?

Starting point is 00:03:54 Or a new tour, right? Or is it both of them? I've got a couple. I've got two albums that nobody's heard that I've recorded in the last, like, year. And I put a couple of the scratch tracks up on my website, like, last. like last week. So there's a few, there's like three songs up there

Starting point is 00:04:16 if people want to hear them. But I've got two full records that are like, I don't know, it's probably two dozen songs, maybe, two dozen new songs that no one's heard. And I just started booking road dates

Starting point is 00:04:32 starting like the second week of July. I've already got like three or four dates, you know, in the second week of July, I think. But I don't really have any plan, like I don't have a goal or any plans or anything. I just started, you know, because I kind of dipped out for a little bit and was just on vacation for like three years. And then I let a couple people know like, hey, I think I want to go back to work. And yeah, I mean, as a side man, and I've played a couple of solo gigs, but in the last like two months of kind of kind of, you know,

Starting point is 00:05:12 putting myself back out there. I've probably played like, I don't know, 20 gigs or something in the last like two months. What, like, what is it, have you noticed a difference in the world of performing or songwriting or art since COVID happened to now? Well, I guess the last time we talked, it was like it had just become a real thing.

Starting point is 00:05:38 Yeah. Like we were in it. Things were closed down. But it had just started. And so, honestly, it doesn't really feel any different now. I think people are stoked just to be back able to do what they want to do. And there's no real hangups anymore. Like every once in a while I'll see or hear chatter in the background with somebody that's like, you know, a little cautious or whatever.

Starting point is 00:06:10 But not so much like it shows, you know. it pretty much just seems back to normal. I think the real difference is people are just like a little more grateful and a little more friendly. You know, they're having more fun. Yeah. Yeah, I think on some level I was kind of thinking like it shaved off the callousness of being around all the time. And it's not a really good way to put it. But, you know, whenever you go into like a deprivation tank, you come out and the colors

Starting point is 00:06:43 are a little brighter, the sounds a little crisper. It seems like we were cooped up for so long that the appreciation for music or live performance would be more of a fever pitch. As I was thinking that as a consumer of content,

Starting point is 00:06:59 I was just wondering, like, what about performing? Can you kind of see that in the crowds when you're performing? Yeah, I think you're right. It's a little more, people are always having fun, but I feel like it's a little more relaxed fun in the sense that like there's just like that little reminder of of gratitude for for something that maybe you know some people might have taken for granted before or or even

Starting point is 00:07:31 to the to the point of entitlement like they were owed the experience that they were used to having and and I don't necessarily disagree with that but like Yeah. That situation really, I think, just kind of help people kind of get their, their perspectives a little clearer on certain things. Yeah. So this brings up an interesting idea. When we think about perspective, like one of the things, I admire a lot about you,

Starting point is 00:08:03 Adam. I think you're a really cool person. I really admire your authenticity. I admire your creative ability. And I admire your fortitude to do what you love to do. and that's really inspiring to me. And I'm curious as someone who has created for a long time, do you feel like the material, the content,

Starting point is 00:08:23 and that what you're creating is maturing and changing now that you're a little bit older? Or like, how is that changed? Can you see your change in your music? And what does that look like? It's definitely changing. I think it's just evolving and I'm getting better at realizing the process of getting it from like an idea to actually being a song or a guitar part

Starting point is 00:08:56 or whatever it is. I'm just getting better at translating those ideas. I don't think I've changed all that much as far as the things that I've strived for and the type of person that I want to be. I'm just getting better at doing it because I've been practicing. longer, you know? Yeah. So, yeah.

Starting point is 00:09:20 So, yeah, like, it's changed in the quality, I feel like. It's changed in the, um, like the, I'm better at communicating. So. Yeah. So, you know, those things come across. I think they're, they're, they're just better all around. But, um, I don't think what I'm doing is changed. so much. It's just becoming more clear. I like that. That's a good way to see it. When I was listening

Starting point is 00:09:53 to you off a Tremont Street over there, and I was listening to the lyrics of that new song, no one dies of old age. What is the track? No one dies of old age anymore? Yes. Or like that to me is a song of someone who knows how to tell a story. And I don't think that we as people, especially men. Like we don't really know how to tell a story until we've lived a life that's full of a little bit of tragedy

Starting point is 00:10:18 a little bit of hope, a little bit of promise, a little bit of disappointment, a little bit of inspiration. But I think that when I started to hear like the new tracks come out, I'm like, oh shit, dude.

Starting point is 00:10:29 Adams fucking got this thing figured out, man. The stories are starting to be palpable. Like I can kind of see the stories taking place, man. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. That's not, like I feel like that's not for me to decide like I can just do what I do right and when I feel it's ready to share I share it

Starting point is 00:10:49 and then at that point it doesn't matter what I think of it anymore it's like it's not you know it's not for me once I set it free and so I'm glad that that's something that you get out of it and I hope other people do too because I feel like there's you know like one of the things I've I've tried to work on is like none of my songs are about people specific experiences or like specific moments they're like culminations of an idea and then I know people and I've had multiple experiences

Starting point is 00:11:29 that kind of fit that idea and so those songs are like tapestries of all the different things that focus around whatever that idea or subject matter is. But if they were so specific, then they would just be for me. And you wouldn't relate to it because you weren't there when that thing happened to me or that person crossed my path. So hopefully the material is more broad, you know, but relatable. I hope.

Starting point is 00:12:04 I don't know. No, it's interesting. I'm always fascinated to talk to people and understand the way in which they create things. you know, I sometimes when I try to create content, whether it's a podcast or if I'm making like a video or something like that, I see it as a way, a similar way where I want the audience that's paying attention to be entertained in a way. But the only way I can do it is by trying to find things that I think are really cool and then putting them out there and hoping that that, that like, whatever it grabbed in me, grabbed someone else. And so like when you're creating sort of with a broad net and casting it out there, it's an interesting way to look at it.

Starting point is 00:12:52 Or the way, I think the word you use was like a tapestry to find ways for people to identify with it. But it's interesting because you have a whole different mode of, you know, sometimes you're in a studio. Sometimes you're in a live performance. Sometimes you're writing a song based on this. Like I think that you have a bigger range of performing and that a live.

Starting point is 00:13:12 allows you to see different modalities like that. Does that sound accurate? Yeah, I think so because, you know, there was a time where, like, I was just known as a guitar player for other people. And so that expressed, like, I expressed myself differently doing that than I would in, like, subject matter of writing a song that has lyrics. So I think that, I think it all kind of blends itself. all those different kind of areas of work that I've done or do

Starting point is 00:13:46 kind of find their way into the songs that I write that I share with people. You know, it's all part of the recipe, I guess. Yeah, I like the idea of the recipe. Sometimes I see it as like playing all the positions on a team. Remember when you're little and you play soccer and sometimes you play defense, sometimes you were a forward. But it just seems like in life,

Starting point is 00:14:12 hopefully we all get to play, hopefully we all have the courage to strike out and try different positions instead of just being relegated to the sweeper or just being relegated to a full stop, you know? Yeah. You know, it's good to do that. And you do get an interesting perspective, like seeing the crowd from a guitar player's point of view versus seeing the crowd from the writer's point of view or the drummer's point of view or the lead singer's point of view. You know, it's interesting how those positions may see. seems similar if you're in the crowd, but if you're up on the stage, man, they're totally different. Yeah, yeah. Like, there's a, like, you know, most of my, most of my work isn't just as strictly

Starting point is 00:14:57 as a musician's been in like more country area of music. And so like country bands, you got guitars and drums and fiddles and bass and steel guitars, acoustic guitars, electric guitars. And, there's definitely like the running jokes about certain instrument personality types you know I don't know what are those I think that's probably that's probably gonna get us in trouble but but it's funny because a lot of times it's true you know like you kind of you kind of you kind of start to recognize like it's it's not like all musicians are musicians there's like person personality types and, you know, different backgrounds that gravitate towards playing certain instruments. You know, I don't have any proof of it, but I feel like I've seen it plenty.

Starting point is 00:15:54 I've worked with a lot of people. Yeah. And as a songwriter, as a songwriter, that's kind of my job is to be, you know, is the study of people and their surroundings. you know so I think I have a I think I have an inclination towards doing that without even trying to do that and just kind of people watching from afar that's okay you got to unpack that for me a little bit like what what does that mean like I guess a songwriter is a storyteller and as a storyteller you've got to be familiar with the lead character you got to be familiar with stories and how to tell them and archetypes and people so yeah um but it's like um i don't you know you also have to like be able to

Starting point is 00:16:48 relate to people too and right and that's probably the most difficult part for me um is is like being i'm good at relating to you i think i understand people very well but i'm also like kind of introverted and I kind of don't put myself out there on like a personal social level with just anybody. But you have to. You know, if you really want to, you can only understand or kind of observe only, you can only observe and understand so much from afar. Like you really got to get in the mix, you know, that might be why a lot of my contemporaries are

Starting point is 00:17:34 like the people that inspired me, you know, depended on substances to open them up. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. I can see that. Do you think that on some level, performing or writing those songs allows you to be the extrovert? Like it allows you to participate instead of being introverted. Yeah, it's that or sometimes I feel like it's forced. me to step out of my shell.

Starting point is 00:18:09 And my fear or hesitance of doing that was only outweighed by the love of making music, right? So, like, and also feeding myself. That's how, like, that's how I make a living. Yeah. Right? So at some point, if I wanted to make a living doing something I loved, I had to, you know, there was a compromise that had to be made, and that was one of them. There's probably a few compromises.

Starting point is 00:18:36 But that was one of them, you know? There's something like so romantic to me about being able to make a living doing something you love. And I think it's so powerful to me because for a long time in my life, I just, I caved into the idea that I had to do this thing to make money instead of doing something I loved and taking care of my, you know, for that way. But like I see you at like that's another reason why I hold you in such high regard is that you've always been able to follow these things you love, man. And it seems to me that with that sort of authenticity, with that sort of path comes a level of self-love that most people don't get, man. Yeah, I mean, it's it's a little easier now at this age to kind of like look back and see that. But at the time, you know, like I grew up in a shitty neighborhood around a bunch of shitty people. Like I figured like what did I really have to lose by just doing what I think like if I was if I was halfway intelligent and had a good work ethic, then why couldn't I put it to something I like and still be at the level that I was like starting from at the very least.

Starting point is 00:20:02 and, you know, for whatever, like, judgment I give to that situation as a kid, like, we survived. We're okay. I'm, you know, we made it out. So, like, why couldn't I just take all the lessons that I learned about hard work and educating yourself and, you know, being self-aware and just apply it to something I like? And I figured at the very least, I could still live in the same neighborhood, but at least I wouldn't wake up at, you know, sunrise to go dig a ditch or whatever, you know, whatever, whatever job that that was out there, you know, that that would have kept me in the same place, you know. Yeah. I know that. I know that all too well, man. I, uh, it's, it seems to me, too, the, uh,

Starting point is 00:20:54 do you remember what your first sort of relationship, you know, what your first sort of relationship, relationship with music was like you know what I mean by that like what was it that really really grabbed you as far as like the like actual music itself like what music was it yeah something we can start there yeah I mean it was just like that early like 50s rock and roll Chuck Barry Elvis buddy Holly all that kind of stuff little Richard was a big one I always I always equate the first time I the first time I heard and saw little Richard I got

Starting point is 00:21:38 it was like the same it was the same feeling in my the first time I saw a playboy when I was like seven years old you know what I mean

Starting point is 00:21:47 like I know that feeling like this is amazing but I don't think I'm supposed to be seeing them oh it's beautiful that's what I that's how I

Starting point is 00:21:59 like that's how I try to convey to people like because it's like getting shocked you know like yeah it's like literally stinging your finger in a socket and getting zapped.

Starting point is 00:22:10 Can you, like, if you were to see a similar clip of him today, would there still be reminiscence of that feeling? Oh, yeah. Like, I still, you know, I'm a, one of the things, like, when it comes to, like, the more practical lessons of being, like, a professional musician, and people ask me questions about it all the time. And one of the things I make them understand is, like,

Starting point is 00:22:35 you really have to be a musicologist. You've got to know your shit. You've got to know your history. And so I still, you know, I practice what I preach. So I still go back and watch old videos and listen to old records. And I still hear things and see things that I, you know, that I didn't see the 20,000 other times I watched it or heard it. And so, yeah, a lot of that, a lot of those feelings. are still, like, I can go back and taste them again for sure.

Starting point is 00:23:13 Yeah, it seems sort of like a boxer would watch old tapes of like heavyweight fights to understand the techniques or understand the performance or understand the conditioning that the other person went through. It seems the same way anybody who's very, you know, I don't want to say religious, but someone who's very methodical about being a person. professional has to go back and learn the lessons from the past, right? I think so. I mean, there's plenty of kids right now, like on your Instagram and TikTok feeds that, like, as far as I'm concerned, they have no talent of anything except being popular on TikTok

Starting point is 00:23:53 and Instagram. But that's just my opinion. And like, if they're feeding themselves and they enjoy what they do, then, you know, maybe my, I certainly never think, like, in life in general, I don't believe that everything is, like, right or wrong, and there's a right way to do things in a wrong. Like, there's a bunch of ways to do things. But for me, I, to look myself in the mirror and be like, you're a professional musician, then I feel like I need to know my shit. And if you ask me to teach you or give you advice, I can only give you what I know or what I feel. like my, my perspective on it, right?

Starting point is 00:24:36 But I certainly don't think it's the only way by any means. Yeah. Yeah, I, I, um, maybe it's, maybe it's our age or maybe it's the, the system we grew up in or the elders we had around us. But the idea of professionalism, you know, like a lot of language seems to be, seems to be evolving in a way. But yeah, I don't know. Maybe it's because we grew up in the same neighborhood or something like that. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know.

Starting point is 00:25:02 But, you know, it's everything should be evolving and changing and growing. Right. So that doesn't mean we're going to like it. Right. Of course not. Right. So if we, if we feel like it's evolving in a incorrect way or a wrong way. Right.

Starting point is 00:25:27 That's not necessarily the truth. It's just that we're uncomfortable with it for whatever reason. That's our hangup. Yeah. So I don't, like, to answer your question, for me, yeah, I need to be that guy that's a music nerd and knows his history and all that stuff. Because it makes me feel better about what I do. And I feel that it makes me better at what I do, you know, regardless of how I feel about it, and just makes me a better musician. And I have a skill set that, um,

Starting point is 00:26:02 A lot of these young up-and-coming starlets and want to be like, I don't mean want to be in a negative way. Yeah. I'm just saying like their goal is to be a famous music star or whatever. They can't walk into a studio session and sit down and cut a song that they've never heard before or, you know, necessarily write their own material or. there's a lot of things or get you know implement themselves into a five-piece band that they've never played or rehearsed with and get on stage and perform for four hours and entertain a paying crowd like that's my skill set and I'm proud of it and I like it I enjoy doing it

Starting point is 00:26:50 but that those things that I used to define myself as a professional musician aren't the only things that define somebody else as a professional. you know sure yeah you know if if if we take that angle a little bit it kind of does seem like there's a pattern of divorcing fame from talent in some ways you know and it probably started happening before we were kids but yeah I can see that pattern I can see that pattern there it's interesting to think about well yeah like that that whole ideal is all over like country music most of most of our most of our it's all over pop music like all those acts in the 50s and 60s, very few of them wrote their own material.

Starting point is 00:27:35 Right. Right? And the people that write the material generally make more of the money, too. So you've got these people that no one's ever heard of that are professional writers and musicians making more of the money than the people you see on your TV. And nobody knows who they are. Same with studio musicians. Now the studio musicians don't necessarily make more of the money. unless they're working.

Starting point is 00:28:06 They make really good money while they're working, but it's not the type of money where, like, it's not generational wealth, you know what I mean? You know, I don't think most people have any idea about this. Like, the only way I know about it, I remember one of my mentors telling me that, like, don't, he used to say, hey, George, don't be the guy in the flashy jacket.

Starting point is 00:28:25 I'm like, what the hell does that mean? And he goes, well, Elton John, he wears a flashy jacket, but there's a guy that writes all this music for him. And that guy can run around, that guy can go do everything and he has all the money. Elton John has the money, but he's also got the fame and the flashy jacket, so he's hindered in a lot of ways. But that was the first time I started thinking like, oh shit,

Starting point is 00:28:43 I didn't realize that this performer is sort of like a puppet in a way. And there's this whole team of people behind them. You know, I guess in my limited view, I'd always thought that, you know, the performer was the person who wrote the song, performed it, you know, did everything. But that's not the case, right? No, I mean, well, Elton does write his own music, but he doesn't write his own lyrics. And so because he writes his own music, he probably owns some of his publishing, I would assume. So he's probably, he's not a horrible example, but like the real example for most people is like Elvis.

Starting point is 00:29:22 He never wrote a song that got published in his life, right? Everything, everything he's saying that we know of was written by somebody else. And I could name their names, but they would just be sounds. They wouldn't be like, there's no faces to those names. There's very few, you know? So, yeah, it's a, you know, business is business, but not all business is the same business. So the music business is very unique to itself. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:30:03 Yeah. Even, even, I kind of see the same thing with like the world we live in. You know, if you look at some of the complaints of professional athletes, they say, look, our agents are like siphoning everything off. Our coaches are siphoning everything off. We go out, we do all the work, and we get paid a little bit. If you think about a performer in the music industry that's just going out and going on tour, you know, I can't even think of like millie-vanilly.

Starting point is 00:30:34 Like those guys didn't do anything. You know, they just went out there and lip-same everything. you know, but it's interesting to look behind the scenes and realize, like, whoa, these are a lot of cardboard cutouts. Yeah, and I don't know. Well, I guess I take that back. I do know a little bit about it, like present day, how that looks. But it still exists.

Starting point is 00:31:01 But, I mean, it's always kind of been that way pre-la. like 1964 like all those artists the musicians on the records were not in the band or even the people in the band making the records a lot of times.

Starting point is 00:31:23 There was studio musicians recorded those tracks and then the band went out and played them live, you know, they had to learn them and go out and play. And so they're, you know, now in like kind of the modern age with

Starting point is 00:31:40 like backing tracks and that kind of thing. I think the ability to have your cardboard cutouts that are also popular in the internet has actually increased quite a bit. So you've got people, you've got more milly-vanillies that can hide behind a lot more technology. And still be, basically, you know,

Starting point is 00:32:02 they're brands now. They're not artists. At least those types. There's plenty of legit, really talented artists. making really good music out there that you're not going to hear or see on TV, you know, or hear on the radio.

Starting point is 00:32:17 But I feel like, yeah, the cardboard cut out, like, that type of act could actually probably get a lot further these days with little effort. Man. That kind of makes me sad a little bit because I kind of, I kind of had, was hoping that this new wave of the, creator economy was you know allowing artists to shine through but as I start looking through yeah what do you think well I was gonna say like that's why that's why I'll just go

Starting point is 00:32:55 back on the road because I can I can draw a crowd on a street corner with an acoustic guitar and no and I'm not hiding behind anything and there's not not even an amplifier or a microphone like the the people that you're talking about they can't do that. Yeah. You know, they can't, like, they can't,

Starting point is 00:33:17 without all those things to hide behind, they can't feed themselves. And so, there's a couple things there. Like, for me, like, I take a lot of those cues from, like,

Starting point is 00:33:32 old blues artists from, like, the 30s and the 20s, where all they did was travel around their region, or the country with the guitar and a suitcase, and they set up on street corners, and that's how they made their living. And that was completely a legit way to survive, you know?

Starting point is 00:33:53 And you got to be the real deal to do that. Those people, you know, eventually they made records, but they were doing that with no, there was no record to promote or no tour announcement. None of that. They were just out working. you know and that's kind of where i'm going back to because partially because of what you're talking about is like all those those those those other types those cardboard cutout types

Starting point is 00:34:22 in that in this world of like digital music and internet and all this stuff if i'm in that world with them then i'm competing with them right and my my the strengths of my skill set um can't really compete with or nor do I want to compete with them. I don't want to spend more time getting better at editing videos on Instagram or like it's just not it's just not what I do. Um and even like recording records is like I've never made a good record because I just you know like I've made records with my songs that were good songs but I've never really made like a great record that that's um in that I feel like is a real representation of what I do.

Starting point is 00:35:15 Like, I've never accomplished that. And part of it is just because I don't really give a shit. Like, I made, like, I wanted to make good records with good songs, and the playing was good. And they're, you know, everything's in tune and it sounds good. And it's, but a lot of them were done, like, really quick. And, like, the whole process that somebody might spend a couple years on was done in a weekend. And they're good products because I, had talented people to work with and all this stuff.

Starting point is 00:35:44 But, like, really what I was creating was, like, Momentos, merch, things to people to take home, you know, as, like, a little token of an experience they had at a concert or whatever. But I can honestly say, like, I'm not ashamed of any of those records, but I've never made a great record that I know I'm capable of making. And part of the reason I just don't care is, like, Like, I don't feel like music, I don't feel like any of my songs should ever be captured and then become like the gospel. Like that's what that one song is supposed to sound like.

Starting point is 00:36:30 To me, like, that's, I'd rather, I get more out of playing it for you in person and creating it for, like, painting the picture while you're watching as opposed to painting a picture at home and selling it to you if that makes any sense because like the act of creating is what really kind of like does it for me that's that's what satisfies me um so going back to like your first question tell me about like what a new record you tour what's going on like i'm not really trying to make a new record because i just don't, I just don't care. You know? What I'd rather do is, how about you just book me on a show and then you bring a recorder

Starting point is 00:37:16 and you record your own record for yourself. You can have it. Yeah. You know? That's better, yeah. Like, I'm going to play, because I'm going to play the same song that I, that I played yesterday, but it's going to sound different today because I'm going to play it different because I feel different, because I'm a different person than I was yesterday.

Starting point is 00:37:36 you know, I feel like I just don't, I don't want to record a song, it becomes the definitive version, and then I've got to play it that way all the time. Or like, if I don't play it correctly, then it's a failure, you know? Hmm. Yeah, it goes back to the whole, yeah, it goes back to the whole, like, thing. I don't think things are right or wrong or, you know, good or bad. They just are what they are. And so like, I'd rather have a different experience every day than just try to recreate the same thing every day.

Starting point is 00:38:14 It reminds me of a – I heard a story once about pictures and how I forgot where I read it or I heard it, but those people talking about like they hated pictures because if it gave – if you took a picture of them and gave it to somebody, it was a person. of them that wasn't really them and it kind of trapped them in this idea and then now that image of them which they may not even like is out there for everybody to hold on to and hold them up against you know and i've never thought about it from that angle that you've said but yeah like the whole commercialization of of anything we do is but a pale picture of who we really are it can only trap you in like a one dimensional way right yeah i mean obviously that's not how I think about music in general

Starting point is 00:39:14 because plenty of people have made plenty of records that I just I can listen to every day for the rest of my life you know but for me like right now I just kind of like I just like simplicity and I like I like the active creating more than I more than the stress of

Starting point is 00:39:36 performing, meaning that, meaning that, like, I want to play for people. I want to, like, give them something, but the idea of putting on a performance where, like, it's got to be tight and it's got to be, it's got to be practiced and rehearsed and it's got to sound impeccable. That I'm not interested in, you know, you're still going to get the best. that I can give you at the moment I'm giving it to you. And after doing it for as long as I have and I think being born with an inclination

Starting point is 00:40:17 that I'm doing what I'm supposed to, what I was born to do, it's probably, I would hope, you're still going to think it's pretty fucking good. But, you know, like the whole, the whole way that records are made, especially now, those people took years

Starting point is 00:40:36 or countless attempts over every little syllable they sang or every little note they played on their instrument to make it perfect. The chances of them playing it perfect from start to finish in one try, like most people don't have that skill. And it's not the norm to make records that way anymore. It used to be. But now, like, people, people can literally piece together their song, like, drum hit by drum hit, note by note, syllable by syllable.

Starting point is 00:41:20 And technology allows them to tweak it, move it, and push it, and massage it until it's, like, perfect on a grid and pitch perfect. and you know I've had some some really good performances in my day that were better than any record I've ever made but I certainly like I'm not in that zone 24-7 so but I you know like I said even at my worst I like to think it's still pretty fucking good yeah but that's what interests me more than like trying to make the perfect record. I'd rather go out and just play for you every night on a street corner or in a, in a comfortable venue or in your backyard or whatever, and like share an experience with you as opposed to like recreate and then perform like this, this scripted thing for you.

Starting point is 00:42:27 It almost seems alien in a way when I think about the level of perfection that can be done. I never thought about it that way, but if you really have a fine tuned ear for something, you could be like, wow, that's way too perfect. It kind of sounds crappy. Because you know that it wasn't made authentically. You know that it was, someone laid down

Starting point is 00:42:48 one cord and they just hit the repeat button and layered it in there. I didn't even know that was really possible, but as you say it, I'm like, yeah, of course, why wouldn't they do that? Yeah. Yeah, for sure. They do it all the time. And it's not, I don't think, you know, we have to wait another 50 years, but I don't think anybody's going to be talking about any of those records in 50 years.

Starting point is 00:43:15 Like, like we still talk about, you know, Sergeant Pepper and, like, you know, Led Zeppelin 3. Like, people just are just, the stuff, again, not all of it. I could, I could, I could, I could, I could, I could direct you to people that I've worked with that I know personally that make fantastic music. And it's real as, it's real as anything. But I equate it, and I think we talked about this before, I equate it to like junk food, you know. It's not sustenance. It's going to maybe keep you alive, you know, a little longer, but ultimately it's going to destroy you. and it's just not

Starting point is 00:43:58 it's not there for the long haul like it's not gonna it's not gonna advance the progress of you as a person you know yeah it's processed here's a box

Starting point is 00:44:11 there's a flashy label get out there and sell it and try to put as little little juice in there as possible and sell as much of it as you can yeah yeah and there's a there's like a

Starting point is 00:44:24 a pretty well-known clip of an interview with Frank Zappa talking about, you know, the music business used to be run by people that love music. Yeah. And now the music business is just run by people that love money that are business people that just, you know, the music business is just another business to them. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:44:50 And like when I was a kid, I worked for a guy delivering office supplies. And I'm like, why did you choose office supplies? And he's like, well, you know, it's just business. You know, and I'd rather work for myself and sell office supplies than work for somebody else doing something I don't like. But at least, like, I have my own business, and it's just business. And that's fine when you're selling office supplies. But when you're selling somebody's heart and soul and their art,

Starting point is 00:45:22 I don't think that's how it should be done, you know? Yeah, I think that that's a problem not only in music, but the world we live in today. And I think you can see the giant hole in our society when we have divorced, you know, everything meaningful and try to put it into a monetary package. You know, we've divorced thought from morality. We've divorced artwork from performance. We've packaged everything, it seems, in a way that can make the most amount of money. And in doing so, we've taken the soul out of it in a way. I feel like we've divorced our soul, a divorce meaning in some ways.

Starting point is 00:46:11 But I don't know. Is that too much to say? I don't think so. I mean, that's the problem with, like, most, I feel like most of the world around us, puts value on everything and everybody and most of the times when they do that they're talking about monetary value yeah right so well art's you know art's great and all but it doesn't pay your bills and that's more important um and then you don't they don't think about the void in you in the person or in the the consciousness or the soul of somebody that art fulfills

Starting point is 00:46:57 they don't even, you know, they don't think, they don't think on that type of level. And I'm not saying that level's higher or better. It's just a different plane. But then everything becomes about a monetary value and you're putting it on people and you're putting it on art and you're putting it on, you know, that's why we put it on, that's why we have fast food is we put a monetary value on it. And so cheaper is better, right? It must be because it's cheaper. you know, doing a job that that adds to the bottom line, which is money, but destroys the earth or, like, destroys your soul while you're doing it, you know, your art is great, but you got to, you got to, you got to do this because it pays more. And I just don't, I don't, I don't, you know, I don't, I'm not, I'm, I refuse to take part in that.

Starting point is 00:47:56 You know, I love, like, what you just said about, it's like a race to the bottom. We make everything cheaper. But if you, if you just stop for a minute and you go, why would I make my life cheaper? Why would I make what I'm doing cheaper? I should make it better, not cheaper. You know, and if you just step back from it, like, what the fuck am I doing? I'm going to make my life shittier? And, you know, I recently come to a spot in my life.

Starting point is 00:48:21 I don't right. Like, I just walked away. Like, I've been a UPS driver for like 26 years. And it's got to a point where, like, I can't fucking do this anymore. This sucks, man. I'm never home. My wife's doing everything. I don't see my kid.

Starting point is 00:48:32 I fucking hate where I'm at. I fight all the time with the people who claim to be in charge because what they're doing is just trying to find ways to cheapen what I'm doing. They don't really give a shit about the service. All they care about is money. And so I made a pretty big decision in my life. Like, fuck it then. I'm not going to do it anymore.

Starting point is 00:48:48 And I, for the first time in my life, you know, I really felt like, wow, I have been living a shitty life for a while. guaranteed I did all right. I made some money and I did some things. But as soon as I started living a life worth living, I realized how much my relationships got better with my wife, with my kid, the conversations we've had, the way I feel about myself, the way I interact with my friends. And it's like, whoa, just walking away from the idea of quantifying everything. Just walking away from looking at everything as a number, you know, you don't realize how immersed you are in the same. system that sees everything from a numeristic point of view. And when you do that,

Starting point is 00:49:31 on some level, you're reducing the human experience to a number. And it's so fucking narrow pointed when you do that, man. It's so hard to be your authentic self when all you look at is a number. Yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm in a place right now where,

Starting point is 00:49:48 like, lately I've been noticing it. Like, just having a, like, for one, I'm not too into small talk, you know,

Starting point is 00:49:56 like, pleasantries and greetings and shit that's cool but like much beyond that it's like I feel like you don't you're not valuing the person in front of you where you're you're talking about nothing just for the sake of talking because you can't handle the silence and so one of the things I'm paying attention to more is like when people are talking you know what are they talking about and what are they saying that like beyond just like the subject matter of whatever conversation you're having like did they just tell me what they like by telling me a negative like did they have to say something negative to say something positive or how many

Starting point is 00:50:51 times did like monetary values or how much money they saved or how much money they spent come up in a subject that has nothing to do with money right so like i don't mind having financial conversations but we're having we're bringing those things into conversations about totally different subjects and to me like that i'm not participating in that like like To me, that's like, that's a red flag of what this conversation is probably going to become if I continue to let myself be part of it, you know? There's, like, the mentality of, I guess, like, I've heard it, I've heard it, the term uses, like, poor people's mentality. and that even people with millions of dollars have poor people mentality sometimes which got me thinking like yes that's the that's the person that's like got all these things

Starting point is 00:52:06 but like it's sick all the time and in unhappy and like the things are not they're not enjoyable because they're only pleasurable right like like scratching the itch of pleasure is not like real is not real joy you know it's it's it's super finite and when that doesn't work you're looking for the next thing and and that's you know I guess those are the types of things where like I just don't need to be having those conversations like if we're going to talk about finances because there's like an issue that we're trying to solve great but like if we're talking about like somebody we haven't you know a mutual friend we haven't seen in 20 years and one of the first things I hear is like oh he's done very well for

Starting point is 00:53:05 himself made a made a million dollars last year I'm like okay great um how is he though is he happy is he healthy like you know what I mean and and I find I've been running into a lot of those types of conversations coming at me lately and it's It's sad to me, but I also know that it's not my job to be sad for somebody. That's their trip. They're on their path. They need to live their life. And so the lesson for me is like, how do I still be cordial?

Starting point is 00:53:43 How do I still be friendly? And how do I maintain my boundaries of what's acceptable for me without being? being rude or like dismissive of them. Hmm. You know what I mean? I do. I know exactly what you mean. I just feel like we don't value,

Starting point is 00:54:05 because everything's including people are getting monetary values and we don't value them as people with feelings and emotions and traumas. And like we're not really, a lot of people are saying a lot of words, but they're not really saying anything of value. you know, we're wasting a lot of time. Yeah. I like the metaphor of scratching the itch of, you know, the pleasurable itch

Starting point is 00:54:33 because it's so superficial a lot of the things that we have glammed on to. You know, these, a lot of the modern ideas of what success is are underpinned by a monetary value. But it seems to me that the real wealth is in creating something. You know, there's a sort of spirituality. that comes by giving birth to something you love that other people can enjoy. And that is not given the weight that it deserves, whether it's a piece of artwork, whether it's a good conversation, whether it's sitting in silence with somebody. You know, there's a lot of ways that the things that are really important cannot be monetized.

Starting point is 00:55:21 I feel you, man. It's interesting. I'm hopeful, though, that, like, I see some cracks in the future. And I'm hopeful for the world that is emerging. Like, you know, and maybe this is just me wishful thinking, but with all the shit that's going down, whether it's wars or the monetary system going down, I think that that is an old system dying.

Starting point is 00:55:47 I think that the younger generation is coming up and being like, these ideals that we were living under are, it just don't work. no one's happy. Our parents get divorced. There's all this abuse. Like, what are we doing? And I think that maybe that, you know, if we look at where we grew up and we look at

Starting point is 00:56:02 some of the stuff that, not just us, but all kids and all people coming up, I think that they got to see a life that's not working. And I like to think that we're working towards creating a better future. And whether it's finding your way in music or finding your way in creating something that's your own, I think it's the path, man. Like, what advice at, like, if there's kids coming up, what advice would you give to a younger version of yourself, Adam? Well, I mean, everything you're saying, like, I, that's, I see that as a potential for sure. Like, that's well within our grasp, if not more, as far as, like, rising to, like, a new level of consciousness.

Starting point is 00:56:52 Yeah. Yes. So that, I guess that's the message to the, like, younger me is, like, all of those little, because I've been, you know, I've been this way, this kind of curious seeker, I guess I would say, since I was a little kid, a little kid, like, five, six years old. Like, I knew, like, looking at the adults around me, I knew that, that, that, you know, that, They were unhappy. I knew that they didn't realize how unhappy they were.

Starting point is 00:57:31 And I knew that they thought that's what life was. That's, they, they were, they were content in their unhappiness because they just thought, well, that's, that's what life is. And so we're doing, we're actually doing okay because in this, if this is what life is supposed to be, then we're good at it. We're good at being unhappy, you know. And a lot of people are. A lot of people are. That's disturbing. They're very good at it.

Starting point is 00:57:59 Yeah. You know? And so I guess like, I guess the, the path to educating myself, I've been on it for a long time consciously, like, knowing, just knowing, like, internally in my gut that there's more to it than this. and the generation that raised me, I don't have to accuse them of doing it wrong for me to change and do it the way I want to do it that I see is right. It's just, again, it's just the evolution, right?

Starting point is 00:58:48 Like, I experience what I experienced because that's what I needed to experience. But now that, you know, I'm an adult and I'm my own person with my own person, with my own means of like providing for myself. I'm not reliant on other adults in the sense that I'm at their mercy. You know, we're all relying on each other because we're all from the same source and we're all connected for sure. But it's different when you're, you know, a 15 year old kid or whatever versus an adult that can provide for themselves.

Starting point is 00:59:25 So I would tell that young need to like trust. trust their gut, continue to look for the answers themselves instead of relying on other people, question everything, you know? Yeah. Or, and not question it in the sense that, like, you know, your parents would tell you, you don't question my word. Well, there's a difference between questioning their word or their authority and

Starting point is 00:59:54 then questioning the lessons they're teaching you. You know? there's a it's kind of it's it might be a little gray but there's definitely like a difference and so you should you should question things that your gut tells you you should question and you should find your own answers in your own path and like and then trust in it you know yeah i like that i think that that is something that everybody could do to find a more rewarding an authentic life is just to listen to that little voice that talks to you.

Starting point is 01:00:35 Because if you, I found out, man, that if you don't listen to that voice, it stops talking to you. You know, or it gets real faint, man. Once you start listening to it, all of a sudden, you know, things get a little clearer. If you start listening to that voice,

Starting point is 01:00:50 I think the world around you begins to open up, man. You know, there's this other, there's this thing that's kind of been floating around my world, Adam, and it's this idea of generational trauma. Like, I've been speaking to a lot of people, about it. And I've even seen it in my life where, you know, I've found out, you know, a lot through a lot of giant mushroom trips for me. But like I figured out that, you know, whatever, whatever battles I don't fix, my kid's going to have to fix them. And that's given me a lot of, a lot of courage

Starting point is 01:01:24 and a lot of, you know, ability to face things that I normally would. would have just put off. And I don't know if it's hard of being my age or maybe it's, you know, it's, it's just something that's happening to a lot of people around the world. But what's your take on generational trauma, man? And have you found a way to navigate that in your life or do you even think it's a thing? No, no, I was just talking about this to a friend a week ago. It's out there, man.

Starting point is 01:01:51 So like, here's what I said to her. I said, you know, I don't believe in hereditary. Like when people are, when people get sick or people, um, get diagnosed or people turn to drugs and alcohol and they and they write it off as hereditary I don't buy it those traumas that cause those things do find their way into your being in your DNA for sure but hereditary really just means you were taught by the people that raised you right so those things those things are lifestyle are the result of lifestyles going back however many generations it took for it to implement itself in you.

Starting point is 01:02:39 But none of us, I don't think any of us, maybe 0.01% of people at the most or whatever might be where like there's literally a freak of nature accident where this, this strand of DNA came out flawed. But really like the universe, and creation doesn't really make that many mistakes, right? So, like, if that's true, then all these things that we can dismiss as hereditary are really just what you were taught and what your parents were taught and what their parents were taught because you were raised by those people. Those people impose their will and their politics and their religion on you and what

Starting point is 01:03:25 those things are, their definitions. those people fed you the food that they ate, right? So, like, you're obese, and your parents are obese, and so are your grandparents. That doesn't, you're not doomed. It's not hereditary in the sense that it's in your genes and it's always going to be in your genes, because that would imply that your life has already been mapped out and written for you. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:03:53 So hereditary is like, yeah, it's real, it exists, but you're not. not bound to it. So therefore, to me, it doesn't really exist. Right? So all the, you're talking about like generational traumas. Well, I'm dealing with mine daily, moment by moment, breath by breath, for sure. And every time I feel like I've reached a new level of like consciousness, a new one emerges, you know, because I could, it's been there all along, but because, because, I could, it's been there all along but at the level of consciousness I was at I couldn't see it right so these things these things are gonna maybe maybe one day I'll get to a point and they'll stop showing up but my my if I had to guess I would I would I would guess that they're probably just always be there and

Starting point is 01:04:50 that's okay they're supposed to be there and and I'm supposed to to kind of wade through it and sorted it out so that, you know, I, like, I don't have any biological kids, but I have lots of kids that I consider mine of varying ages. Like, some of them are full-blown adults, but they're my kids in the sense that it's my duty as, like, a fellow human, to do my own work so that I can lead by example. And hopefully my example is better. than the generation before me, you know? Yeah, I like that idea. I kind of see a similar, like,

Starting point is 01:05:38 I've been thinking about this idea of patterns for a while. Like, we live our life according to a pattern, and it's really easy to stay in that pattern if you let it. It's really hard to break a pattern, whether it's a pattern of abuse, a pattern of drinking, or a pattern of living. You know, it doesn't have to be a negative pattern. It could be a positive pattern.

Starting point is 01:05:59 But the longer you stay in that pattern, you know, the longer you become callous to what is possible. And if you just shift your pattern a little bit, the whole world can open up to you. And maybe that's when you talk about things not being hereditary or, you know, drinking being something that's a learned behavior or being obese as a learned behavior. you know I and I think that on some level just getting out of your comfort zone can change that pattern for you whether it's traveling whether it's performing at a place when you're not when you're scared to perform or whether it's just doing something that scares you you know and I you know it's it's powerful to do that and I think most people should be forced to do that in a way and I know that sounds wrong but maybe that's waking people up I don't know what do you think

Starting point is 01:06:54 well like with regards to like just so we're clear like the drinking and obesity thing being learned behavior it it most definitely can be hereditary in the sense that you are get you are handed that and so you're going to be obese and you might be an alcoholic all i'm saying is you're not you're not destined to die that way because it's hereditary right right so you can change. Hereditary is not like a death sentence in some regard. I see. And the flip side about patterns not having to be negative, you very well could become a person that is carrying on a learned pattern that's very much positive and good in the general sense,

Starting point is 01:07:48 but it's not positive or contributing to you, the individual, in the current life that you're living, meaning that, like, you may have been taught something that's become a pattern that you do on the daily or on the regular, that if you abandon it and started something else, that other thing might be even more beneficial. For you, right?

Starting point is 01:08:16 And for the life you're living. So therefore, that positive thing could be a hindrance out of certain, point because you're not, it's taking up the time and energy that you could be spending doing something that you created that's better for you. Can you give me an example of something like that? This one might be, uh, this, okay, yeah, yes, I can't. Because I, the, the premise you just said was leading me to a thought of, one of the things I also don't believe in is daily

Starting point is 01:08:54 routines. So, I can think of instances where being taught hard work and being reliable and being somebody that shows up

Starting point is 01:09:10 not just on time but early. Those are all positive things in like the big picture. Those are all good traits that you should have. But if the person that taught you them taught you them in the sense that it becomes a daily routine in the sense that you have to adhere to certain practices at certain times of the day, every day.

Starting point is 01:09:46 Therefore, every day kind of starts the same way or is framed the same way with only a little deviation in between the tasks, then I would, for me, consider that not positive, even though I'm doing positive things. Because for me, I don't want to need to have to go through a routine to do positive things. Because if something happens, and my day doesn't look like yesterday because traffic or whatever set my course of the day off the clock

Starting point is 01:10:27 then a couple of things are put into play that are now stressful and not positive one I don't believe in the sense of time obviously we need a clock to coordinate

Starting point is 01:10:43 and collaborate on things but like in the big sense time doesn't exist so now my routine is offset and I'm off the clock, so to speak, and now I feel bad. And so now I've put into motion a whole chemical chain reaction in my gut and in my brain. And my day has become harder to enjoy because I feel bad because I didn't do something that I'm supposed to do because that's what my daily routine says I'm supposed to do.

Starting point is 01:11:18 And then that in turn makes it hard for me to be productive and reliable and self-aware and creative as opposed to I'm those things no matter what. And I can be those things without a routine to reel me in and keep me on track. Because if I get knocked off that track, then I'm floundering. but if I can wake up every day and be those things that I need to be without any kind of like structure and still get shit done and still feel good about myself, then what have I lost? I don't think I've lost anything. You know, if anything, if anything, I've gained freedom. And that's why I'm sitting here having this conversation with you. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:12:12 And I've already booked some gigs and generated some cash flow. on just a seemingly random schedule, but like, you know, I don't know if I can turn my camera around, but I'm looking at the ocean right now while I'm looking and talking it to you. It's sitting in the sun and I'm not behind a computer. And it's not costing me anything, except it would be costing me a whole lot if I was in an office behind my computer, having to do the things that I need to do to generate income. Yeah, I love it. I think that if people can begin to understand that time is something that's used to constrain us,

Starting point is 01:13:01 not only in the way we live, but who we are. Like, it's this man-made limiting idea that puts us into a box and makes us controllable. It's like, you know, I've been thinking a lot about it. this idea of time, like, and how much better the world might be if we just broke all the clocks. I'm thinking about writing a science fiction novel. We just break all the clocks. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 01:13:24 There you go. I would read that. Because, because, like, what you're saying, I 100% agree with. But also, to add to what you're saying, it also just doesn't exist. It's made up. Right. Right. Right.

Starting point is 01:13:42 Right. So, like, which, which I always. only say not to like not to disagree with you but actually to to bolster your claim like that further proves what you're saying is right in that it's used to control something that doesn't exist is used to control us yeah to me that's that's more powerful than just saying time is used to control us yeah you know so you know i only i only say that to to back you up Yeah, you know, there's something to be said about the eternal now. Like that's the only time that exists.

Starting point is 01:14:24 And if you look back at any history book you've ever written or every, yeah, maybe, if you look back at any history book that you've ever read, it's only an account of someone's opinion of what happened. You know, there's no true real history that happened. And so it's just an opinion of what happened. The only real thing tangible is right now. Right. Okay.

Starting point is 01:14:46 so early you asked me about perspectives and how you know the idea of them is interesting to you yeah and what you're saying now about history being written right so i always think of it this way like perspective really is both real to the person that has theirs but unreal to other people to see that person's perspective meaning like if i stand up up right now on the earth on my feet. There's not a single person that can get my perspective in that particular spot because only one person can stand in one spot at one time. So everything else might be close, but it's still a deviation away from that original perspective.

Starting point is 01:15:39 Nobody can stand exactly where I'm standing and have the exact same perspective. They can stand next to me. They can even like kind of lean into me and get their eyes just below mine. But it's always a deviation from mine. It's never going to be the same one. It's impossible. And that's both the tragedy and beauty of life right there. Because no one will ever see what you have and no one will ever see what you,

Starting point is 01:16:06 you know, no one will ever see what you see. It's at the same time beautiful and tragic, right? Yeah, that's it. And like, you know, you look at people that do podcasts and interviews like this and you go into the comment section, which you should never do, but you do it because you can't, it's like you can't help but look. And there's going to be the people that are like, this guy's full of shit, this guy's telling lies. This guy's misleading people. But like the reality is, it's like, I'm not doing any of that. I'm just like speaking from the place I'm standing.

Starting point is 01:16:45 And I'm not telling you that I'm right and you're wrong or that my way is right and your way is wrong or any of that. You know, and there's a lot of people that do the same thing and get shit for it. But it's like that's not the problem. You know, it's like the awareness of what is really happening versus what you think is happening. You know, that's where maybe you're having some static. Because I don't have anything. and I don't have any with you doing what you do. Yeah, so this brings up another, this brings up this.

Starting point is 01:17:23 I've been reading a lot of a, this guy Marshall McLuhan, who is like a philosopher in the 50s, and he spoke about the different mediums in which we learn. And he talked about how language, specifically when we became more literate, when books became, when the Gutenberg, the printing press came to be. It fundamentally changed the way we see the world.

Starting point is 01:17:50 And he talks about how, you know, reading a book and reading the letters on that book create this new thing of exact repeatability. And like it's a crazy thing to think about, but just think about the concept of exact repeatability. Like that takes away the images. It takes away the nuance. It takes away perspective.

Starting point is 01:18:14 If I can give you a book and you can repeat exactly what I said, you can say the same words, but you can never say it in the same conduct. You can never say it in the same position. And like, you know, you just talks about how from that point forward, we just deviated off a course because information and knowledge was never supposed to have the exact repeatability. It was supposed to be something that I told you and you moated over in your head

Starting point is 01:18:37 and then you came up with an idea about it. And now we get into the concept of time. Now we get into the concept of the cardboard cutouts that we were talking earlier, or the studio gangsters or the studio music and this profound pornographic idea of exact repeatability. You know what I mean? It's like a virus in a way. Yeah. Yeah. So like that goes back to like my whole thing about just not really giving a shit about recording records anymore.

Starting point is 01:19:06 Yes. Right. Like bring your own recorder to the show. I love it. And like if 20 people did that, those, they can't all put their recorder, their microphone in the same place, right? They've got to put it where they're feeling it. So 20 people are going to go home with 20 different sounding recordings and have 20 different experiences, but it's theirs. And they captured it.

Starting point is 01:19:30 So it's not my version that I made that they're buying and taking home. It's their version, which is kind of cool. Dude, that's fucking awesome. Are you kidding? That runs counter to every other person. Like, hey, I don't want any cameras in here. I don't want anybody recording stuff. You're like, no, no, bring your own shit, make your own album.

Starting point is 01:19:51 Like, it's so much better, Adam. Yeah, that's so much better. That's, that's, that's, yeah. So my next album, I don't know. You tell me. Right? I don't know what it looks like or sounds like. Or I don't even know what the title is.

Starting point is 01:20:09 You're going to come up with your own. That's so much better. That is such a better way to, to, it just gives me a better feeling about the person that's creating it. Like it's almost like you're co-creating with people. Okay. And I don't know if we talked about this last time, but like one of my like mottoes is, is creation, not competition, right? or cooperation and not competition.

Starting point is 01:20:41 And so that's like a life philosophy for me. So I don't, and the gist of it is I don't need to compete with you to get mine. Like we can both get ours. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:20:57 There's enough to go around. So like, yeah, like if that's how I'm making records now is we're making them together, I think that's way cooler. And now, and so, like, you know, one of the things that drives me crazy is like, I'll walk into somebody's restaurant

Starting point is 01:21:14 and they know who I am, or I'll walk into somebody's, you know, they're having an event, and I'm there as a, as a attendee and not like a performer. And they see you and they like, they put on one of your songs that's on a record or CD or on Spotify or something. And they think, like, they think you're going to be stoked. And it's like, Yeah, it's kind of like, it's kind of a cool nod, but it's also like, it kind of drives me crazy. I don't want to hear it because I made it and I'm done. Like, I'm on to the next thing. But if we're making records together where I'm just playing, I'm just doing what I do and you're like,

Starting point is 01:21:54 you're capturing it on a recording device because that's what stokes you out. Actually, I do want to hear. I want to hear what your version of like your version of it is that you enjoy. Like, I want to hear that. That's way more interesting to me. Yeah, that is interesting. I heard, gosh, I forgot who it was, but there was an artist that came out and said,

Starting point is 01:22:18 look, you can use any of my material, but if you make any money off it, like, let's release it together. Like, they kind of waived their copyrights a little bit, and they were like, yeah, look, use all my stuff, just put me in there. And, you know, if you make over this amount, let me know. And I was like, what a cool way to kind of re-release, you know, the creative spirit a little bit, you know? I don't know.

Starting point is 01:22:44 It's interesting to think about. Yeah. And, you know, that, to me, like, the things that I'm thinking about doing, let this helicopter goodbye. The ways that I'm starting to think about it is. is because of the things that we have available to us, which very often when we have conversations about technology and phones and the internet, it's usually because it's created some kind of chaos that we consider negative. But we have these things, so resisting them is only going to make me sick and stress.

Starting point is 01:23:32 But if I can accept them and then put them to like, to use in a way that's like fulfilling and in productive, like how do we do that? And for me as a songwriter, this might be, this is one way I can think of that I can do that. Because everybody's got a really good camera and music studio in their pocket now. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:23:59 You know? So, yeah, otherwise I'm just being resistance to, I'm resisting what is otherwise. And that's not good for me. No, I don't think it's good for anybody. You know, on some level, resistance can build muscle, but resistance to something that can be a, resistance to something that can help you is,

Starting point is 01:24:29 sounds like getting old. You know what I mean? Yeah, they're no different really at that point. you know if it can help you and you're still resisting it then like yeah you're just you're still you're still basically doing the same thing of of not fulfilling or not um giving nutrition to your soul you know yeah yeah i think just having that concept of why am i resisting this thing that can help me like that's that's the world knocking on your door like hey i'm trying to help you why are you resisting this, you know?

Starting point is 01:25:08 And it just gets louder and louder until you do something. Yeah. Yeah. And it's going back to talking about those patterns, then you get stuck in those patterns and it gets easier and easier to not provide nutrition for yourself. Right. You know, one of the things that, like, that I hear people talking about is, like,

Starting point is 01:25:34 like the idea of she I'm kind of losing my train of thought but like forgot what I was going to say or how I was going to say it but um the patterns that people present for themselves oh you're right right so so people get into these patterns and they they continue to do things that are not contributing to their wellness they might even be in the middle ground where it's not really harmful but it's also not helping but they're they're expending their self on it. And so it's, I see the, I see the, the, the, the idea that we're, we are confusing doing what's, what feels

Starting point is 01:26:22 right with, we're doing what, what feels comfortable. And that's where that, that song that started this whole thing off kind of is coming from. Right? Like it's, it's, it's, we're not. dying of old age, we're dying of self-imposed lifestyle choices and limitations and poisons. You know, and a lot of those poisons we create inside of us because our body and our being is fighting back against, you know, lifestyle choices or thoughts, you know, negative thoughts can

Starting point is 01:27:00 kill you eventually. Yeah, I would venture to say that that's what kills most people. yeah and that's what and that's what that song is really talking about like we're creating these chemical poisons inside of us with how we're living and thinking and how we're how we're like our relationship with the world around us yeah yeah it makes sense man that that one little two and a half minute song that only has like two a verse and a chorus you know it's like two paragraphs that's that's what we've been talking about for almost an hour and a half but but it's not we're not like it's fulfilling it's not small talk you know and that's yeah that's kind of

Starting point is 01:27:52 that's kind of where I'm at with things you know I I I have more to give so I I I want more around me too like I want more coming back that's that's fulfilling like I don't want to waste my time or my breath on things that aren't. Yeah. Meaning and purpose. There's a saying that I've been hearing quite a bit, and it says the deeper in you go, the bigger it gets, you know. It's kind of interesting to think about.

Starting point is 01:28:24 Well, and you were, you know, when we were texting about this show, you were like talking about living your authentic self and kind of just doing it on your own terms and not really giving a fuck. about the ideas or the limitations that other people might impose on you doing, you know, living your life that way. Part of the reason I'm able to do that is because I can spend quality time in silence with myself. And if you can't do that, it's really hard to do the other stuff.

Starting point is 01:29:05 you know it's hard for me to do to sit in a room and do that because I feel like that's not natural it's much easier to sit by the beach and just sit in silence but you're still practicing you know you're still practicing something that I feel like for me I need to practice that and if I have to do it in a room with four walls and and all the all the distractions of you know comforts around me like TVs and my phone, I can still turn those things off and just meditate. Like, I'm pretty good at it. I can do it every day. And I don't feel like I'm good at it in the sense that when I do it, it's always like at a high level, but I'm good enough at it that I can do it every day. And that, to me, that's more important. Yeah, I think it speaks volumes of being

Starting point is 01:30:05 comfortable with who you are and the things that you've done. Because a lot of people, And you know what people at home or listen to this? You can try this. Have a conversation with somebody and don't take the step when you're supposed to dance. You know what I mean by that? Like just pause in a conversation and watch how uncomfortable somebody gets. Like they will start having anxiety a little bit. I just want to fill the air with conversation or words even though you're just being quiet. And it's like a little exercise like that. Whoa, look how powerful silence is. Well, and not only that, but how valuable spaces. Not every little space needs to be built. you know if you if you don't believe me come watch people drive in california where there's three lanes and like people are trying to fill every hole with their car it's the same with words and fame with thought and it's the same with like um relationships and presence around people like you can you can tell the people that are the least conscious are the ones that talk to most a lot of times because they can't, they can't stand the silent, embrace it. And again, I'm not judging anybody.

Starting point is 01:31:20 That's, if that's, if that's how people are in that setting, that's great. But I'm probably going to, I'm probably not going to participate or I'm going to get up and go do something else. And that should be okay too. You know? Yeah. Yeah, I think sometimes, you know, Isn't it interesting that we have somewhere along the lines decided that money is free speech? And if you're sometimes if you fill things with words, so too do you fill things with money. You fill that void with money or things, you know, like this thing that I got. Well, that takes away that space. And now I don't have to worry about that because on this.

Starting point is 01:32:01 It's interesting. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Or like, I had a relationship with a, like a, but like, like the idea that because I have more money or I'm worth more money, my voice holds more, is more important than your board. My opinion matters more. You know, even if the subject in which you're talking about, that person has less experience and knowledge of them. They get to control that space more because they have more money.

Starting point is 01:32:41 And that's how that space becomes a toilet. Yeah. At least that's one way. That's, you know. But that is certainly a thing with some people. And I, yeah, whatever. That's cool. That's their, they have a right to live and experience their own thing, but I'm not going to

Starting point is 01:33:08 participate. And I have that right. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that it's, it's in rebellion to these ideas that we don't like where a lot of great art is created. You know, because there's some things that, and I think art or creativity is one of them that speaks louder than any one voice, you know, creating something as like a symphony that drowns out the mundane, monotone voice of one loud voice. Does that kind of make sense? Yeah, I think so. I think so.

Starting point is 01:33:47 Yeah. Yeah, I feel like, you know, I feel like we've kind of, we're on the same page. We're kind of saying the same thing at this point. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. It's, it's, but it's. it's real. It's, that's, that's, those are the things that, to me, those things are real. That's what I'm seeing around me and like, those are the things that I'm trying to like, learn how to coexist with and like get along with.

Starting point is 01:34:18 Because even though I don't subscribe to those things, if being around those things are people that subscribe to those things brings out a reaction in me, even if I don't explain, it if it's internal and it's a negative reaction then it's it's not them that are causing it's me right because as far as I'm concerned like nobody nobody can make me feel or think a certain way no one that's my choice yeah so so if we're living in a world and in that includes those other things that I that I don't have a taste for, I still have to learn how to like maintain who I am in the presence of it. And that's what I'm working on now. You know, that's my job for me.

Starting point is 01:35:19 Yeah, one of the, one of the most heart wrenching but also funniest statements I've ever heard is, see what you made me do? Right. You know what I mean? No, I did. I didn't do that, but it's just someone blaming something, man. It's so funny to me and sad because it's usually. It's usually the sign before there's some abuse that happens, but I guess that's the dark comedy that makes life worth living sometimes is found in those moments. But Adam Lopez, yeah, what we got?

Starting point is 01:35:51 I was going to say, but, you know, the flip side of that is I remember saying those things at some point in my life too. And in that moment, it was real to me because I felt it. even though it wasn't real it was real to me and so that's where that's where coexisting and being empathetic are necessary they're vital

Starting point is 01:36:17 but they're also really difficult because it's something you know one of the one of the kisses of death I feel like as a human is to be like seeing is believing because some of the shit you can't see but it's real

Starting point is 01:36:36 and I know because I feel it you know so so yeah see what you made me do like now I'm like I'm detached from that but I try to be empathetic because I know what that feels like because I at some point have said those same words you know

Starting point is 01:36:53 yeah I've seen it as I've grown older and and I like the idea of seeing because I think we you see people acting a certain way and you can recognize it, what you're really seeing is yourself and how you react. Because the only way you can recognize something in somebody else is because you've done it, whether it's a good thing or whether it's a bad thing. And if you can get to that point and see people as another version of yourself or as a mirror, as I like to say,

Starting point is 01:37:25 hey, this person's showing me how ridiculous I am. Hey, this person is showing me some cool things about myself. This person is showing me, you know, what I could be like or what I used to be like. But if you can get to see the people and the environment around you as a, as a mirror, it can really change your life, I think. Yeah. Yeah. And that's another one of those, like, things.

Starting point is 01:37:51 There's a lot of those that I try to implement just like moment to moment. You know, there's a bunch of them. And, you know, the world around me is a mirror, getting beyond things being good or bad or right or wrong or just always being present. Like, those are all just little reminders that I'm always constantly trying to to not just remind myself of because that's redundant to what I just said, but put into practice. And that's, you know, that's work. But, you know, what else am I going to do if not that? you know yeah it it's i mean i think those are good examples of trying to live a life worth living it's so hard to be in the present because there's constantly things that are pulling us back and

Starting point is 01:38:43 trying to trap us in the past or make us worry about the future but if you can just find those little totems that allow you to be here whether it's seeing people as a mirror or you know finding a moment to laugh about the pure absurdity that you're even here right now you know what i mean like there's there's little things that you can do bring you right back yeah so i mean i think we just solved the puzzle of life that's why that's why we have to have these conversations my friend everybody you're welcome right but and that's that's again goes back to like the small talk thing like think about how much time can be wasted talking about the weather that Right.

Starting point is 01:39:32 Like, it's just, it's silly. And there's nothing that's inherently wrong with it, but I'd rather be doing this. Yeah, me too. You know, like nothing, you know, like, and it's little things like that that can just drive you crazy. They won't ruin my day, but they'll still get me and I'll just be like, like, you know, it's a hot one out today or something like that, right? And that's like, I don't know, is it? like I think it's great. You think it's hot.

Starting point is 01:40:03 I think it's great. I think it's perfect. So now what? Like what are we talking about? We're not talking about anything, you know? Like I'd rather do this. And so far we're an hour and 40 minutes in and that was, that other conversation was only like six seconds. But I'd rather spend an hour at 40 doing this than six seconds doing that.

Starting point is 01:40:22 Because this is way more rewarding. Yeah, I agree. And I think that. This is the antidote to that. And I want more of it to happen. And I think people are thirsty for it. You know, I think that I do. I think that all these fillers are just ways for people to continue to live a life of depression or anxiety.

Starting point is 01:40:46 And they're secretly, when someone says the weather's hot outside, I think they're desperately looking for communication. And if you can see it from that angle, I think your answer to that is a great thing to say. Like, no, it's not. It's cold. Almost shocking someone to do an argumentation is better than just that small talk, right? Yeah, yeah. No, it's not. I mean, and I don't think that's the best, but it is better for sure.

Starting point is 01:41:11 It's something. It's something. There's emotion in it. But yeah, you made me think of something else, too, with what you just said. And again, I'm starting to lose my train of thought. But, yeah, I don't remember what I was thinking. You said something that sparked a thought, and I lost it. Maybe it'll come back to me.

Starting point is 01:41:35 Yeah. Well, here's a comment that our friend Sarah Ann put up. She's saying, let me think I'll put it up on the board here. Okay. So Sarah Ann says maybe they are trying to get out, but it's not so natural for them. And that could be it too. Not everybody has the ability to, maybe they're not, maybe they're really introverted. And the way they're trying to break the ice is just saying, hey, the weather's hot

Starting point is 01:42:02 there. You know what I mean? Maybe maybe we're being too hard on it. Adam. Yeah, and that's what I'm saying. I'm not I'm not trying to say it from a point of like judgment or like you're wrong. I'm right. I'm just saying like that's an example of of a way where like it sparks something that I have to work on. This it's not about them. I'm talking like the the judgmental part or like the the critiquing. I'm not critiquing them. I'm saying what I'm saying is like that's a critique of my my weakness or like my lack. I'm lacking something that that is having trouble being empathetic to that. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 01:42:41 Like that's what I'm trying to get at is like I'm not trying to dog that person. I'm saying like I got some holes in my game and that's one of them. Right. So Sarah also says like I'm surrounded by negativity. And I think that if you are surrounded by negativity, you know, then you have to find, you have to be your own positivity at that point in time. And,

Starting point is 01:43:07 you know, maybe that means getting outside and going for a walk or, what do you think, Adam? What do you do if you're surrounded by negativity? Yeah, go ahead. I don't see,

Starting point is 01:43:19 that's, that's of the same conversation we were just having, but it's like, it's, it's the other side of it. Like, somebody small talking me about the weather and me getting irritated,

Starting point is 01:43:32 that's me. So similar but different. Being surrounded by negativity is like that's also me. I'm not surrounded by it. I am it and I need to change my thoughts and I need to change my perception of what's around me. Or I just need to remove myself from my environment. And that's a little, like that truth is a little harder to swallow than the other one. Because it's taking responsibility for something that's kind of uncomfortable.

Starting point is 01:44:06 but that's how I see it and that's how I deal with it so I'm not pointing the finger at Sarah but like if you're going to ask my version or my opinion of that it's on me I've heard the quote before

Starting point is 01:44:24 that like attracts like water seeks its own level and that's both good and bad because if if you are the reason or if you are attracting things in your life that are negative, then you could flip that switch and attract things in your life that are positive, right? It's just a matter of flipping the flipping one little angle on that. And maybe that's,

Starting point is 01:44:46 you know, for me, when I have found myself in pretty negative spots in my life, you know, it's usually I'm either trapped in the past, which is, I heard, I heard this, I heard that the definition of depression is being trapped in the past and the definition of anxiety is being trapped in the future. And so when I find myself surrounded. I forgot. Yeah. Well, it makes sense, right? I mean, if you're either beating yourself up for the past, and maybe this is part of it, Sarah,

Starting point is 01:45:14 maybe you're beating yourself up for something you did in the past or someone did to you in the past, or you're worried about what's going to happen in the future. But the truth is, you cannot control either one of those things. And I bet no matter where you are, right now, if you're not getting punched in the face or, you know, you're not in the midst of a huge trauma, then right now, everything's okay. At this moment, everything's okay. And if you can begin there, you can begin to branch

Starting point is 01:45:42 out after that. It's just a matter of re-centering yourself on some level, but... Yeah. That's my version of it. And, you know, for Sarah, maybe that's not like what she wants to hear. I don't know. I'm just saying, like, as an example, like, maybe that's coming off as, like,

Starting point is 01:45:59 pointing the finger or just not a positive solution to a negative situation. but to me that's how I see things so like if I if I catch myself saying I'm surrounded by negativity I'm not I'm not trying to change what's around me I'm trying to look inside and try to figure out why I see negativity because one I don't you know is it negative or is it just how I see things because do we see things as they are do we see things as we are? I tend to think we see the world around us

Starting point is 01:46:37 our perception of it is what our perception of ourselves so if I think everything around me sucks it's because I'm having an issue with myself and sometimes you know I I honestly believe that our biggest tragedies in life can become our greatest gifts and I mean that because when you're surrounded by the worst things ever like you have to find a way way to get the fuck out of there. Like you have to find out what is it that's keeping me here.

Starting point is 01:47:13 And usually that pit of self-loathing or whatever, you know, if you don't live there, you can find some real fertile soil there and be like, whoa, you know what? You know why I'm doing this? Because of this. And then you find out like, holy shit, I do do that. I need to stop doing that. But I think that our greatest tragedies, and maybe not at the moment, and it may take years to get through your greatest tragedies. And you may have to do, you know, seven grams of mushrooms to figure it out. But the truth is, you know, once you figure out what it is that you're, it's really dogging you, you can begin to overcome it.

Starting point is 01:47:47 And it can even become the foundation for you to build a rocket ship on and explode out of there. But we have to have it, man. Yeah, I mean, if you're not learning anything while you're living, then what's the point? And so all those. Yeah. And if you can kind of, to me, if I can get beyond. positives and negatives as far as judging situations or people then it's all it's

Starting point is 01:48:12 all what I choose it to be it all has the potential to be a lesson and it all has the potential to turn into something that is like a source of energy for me you know positive energy yeah bad stuff yeah Absolutely Well Yeah What do I know Well I think you know a lot man

Starting point is 01:48:46 You're someone that I look up to in a lot of ways man And you've always been an incredibly authentic person to me And I love the fact that we can be apart for so long But our conversations always end up in an area like this That's fruitful and it's not superficial And it's deep and it's inspiring and fun And, you know, for those that are watching right now, check out, uh, check out Adam Lopez music, you know, because I think a lot of this conversation is what drives him and it's

Starting point is 01:49:15 what goes into his artwork. And, uh, I think it's awesome, man. So before I let you go, though, Adam, what, where can people find you, man? What do you got coming up? Uh, yeah, Adam Lopez music. I have a calendar on there. Um, there's a handful of like North, North, North Cal, Central California dates that just went up in the last like two days. Um, after that, I don't know, like, I'm, I'm booking shows now pretty much every day. They're coming up after, you know, being kind of, like I said, kind of retired for a couple of years. So because I'm just now kind of coming out of my cave, you know, the dates aren't piled on the calendar like they normally are. It takes a couple months to kind of get, to get them backlogged a little bit.

Starting point is 01:50:02 But, yeah, I'll be like, I'll be in, like, Sacramento. Monterey kind of that zone Santa Cruz in July and then after that I don't know I might I've got a few offers to go like towards Texas towards Colorado

Starting point is 01:50:22 kind of the usual like my usual zone is like it's like the diamond of like Colorado Texas and then Tennessee and California you know I've gone to other places quite a bit but that's like the main zone so yeah it's it's pretty much changing like on the daily where people you know are inviting me back out so yeah that's awesome the website the website's the easy way to keep track of everything

Starting point is 01:50:52 but adam lopez music is pretty much all the social media is too okay yeah it's pretty much the same for everything all right awesome well hang on a second i'm going to hang up with the audience but I want to talk to you real briefly afterwards. And awesome conversation, brother. I really appreciate it to the folks listening out there, to Sarah, to Steve, to Johan. We love you guys, man. Thanks for participating in everything.

Starting point is 01:51:18 And we'll talk to you guys soon. Check out the links. Aloha. Peace.

TrueLife - Adam Lopez - From Honky-Tonks to Hit Songs: The Journey of a Country Music Star

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