TrueLife - Anthony Bailey & Dr. Mitsis - Entheogen Biotech

Episode Date: January 6, 2023

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/https://www.entheogenbiotech.ca/Article: https://sflcn.com/entheogen-biotech-of-canada-conducting-research-on-mushrooms-in-jamaica/  Bioreactor: https://youtu.be/gIUHQNFKu_IqNMR httpToday we welcome Anthony Bailey and Co- Founder of Entheogen Biotech to the TrueLife podcast. They have established a library with strains as strong as 4.4% tryptamine content. In establishing our library of over 100 strains of fungi we've established analytic techniques to determine tryptamine contents at home for up to 2% tryptamine and new methods using each HPLC's and Q NMR's machines. Our most unique offering is strain of mycelium that we stumbled upon in our breeding process, this particular strain produces psilocybin. We then took this strain and grew it in a bioreactor producing psilocybin in one-week versus the traditional eight-week life cycle of psilocybin.Now we embark on commercialising our findings and bring them to market their legal jurisdiction permits. One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark. fumbling, furious through ruins

maze, lights my war cry Born from the blaze The poem is Angels with Rifles The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Seraphini. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back

to the True Life podcast. We are here with a couple of gentlemen from a new company called In Theogen Biotech, Mr. Anthony Bailey and Dr. Vangelis Mitzis. Anthony, can you tell the people a little bit about who you are and what you do? Yeah, my name is Anthony Bailey. I think it's fair to say I'm a serial entrepreneur.

I started out, I kind of started my whole venture into psilocybin with cannabis. I was in the cannabis space involved in Jamaica. And from there, it led me to, I met my partner of Vangelis in, I believe, at a conference in Prague, we met. And then again, in Spanibus, because he's actually, he lived in Spanibis. at the time. And he was the one who informed me. He's very good at plant extraction. But he also explained to me that psilocybin was legal in Jamaica. So with that being said, he wanted to, he wanted to pretty much learn from our mistakes in the cannabis industry. So we focused on kind of breeding and production of compounds to production of a production of the

compound, like the active ingredients, so psilocybin and psilocybin. So that led us down this kind of rabbit hole of breeding. We started with about 14 or 15 kind of different spores and liquid cultures. And then we just started breeding different, I guess, would be adding different alkaloids and kind of chemicals to them to the varieties of mushrooms to produce higher triptamine contents for each kind of strain we have. had. Some of them have a higher psilocybin. Some of them had higher psilocyne kind of onset. So we knew the ones that were higher in psilocyne. Those are probably better for, you know, a quicker onset.

And then as well as that, that led us to kind of the plant extraction because V was kind of in that world. So he was learning how to extract a psilocybin, turn it into silicine kind of thing. And then from there, in the whole breeding process, we stumbled upon the, a variety of mycelium that was able to produce psilocybin, and we grew it in the bioreactor. So essentially allowing us to produce psilocybin in a clean, sterile condition that was highly repetitive and highly scalable. So what that allowed us to do is essentially create an active pharmaceutical ingredient

in the bioreactor because it's clean, it's sterile, it's completely different than growing mushrooms and like the traditional way that's grown, as well as a lot quicker. So in one week, in one week we were able to produce psilocybin versus the traditional kind of eight-week life cycle, six to eight-week life cycle that it has to produce psilocybin. And in the clean, clean sterile conditions. So we're pretty proud of that. We don't know if we were aiming to discover this strain of mycelium.

I think we were more looking to breed the most potent mushrooms so that we can have the highest yield of active compounds to then be able to create doses and stuff for people at a lower cost. Because right now, mushrooms that are out there would be probably about 0.6% triptamine content, maybe 1% if you're lucky, for what you're going to be purchasing on the streets and purchasing from any spore bank for the most part.

So our kind of objective was to separate ourselves from the competition, which was one, having validating what we had. So all of the strains we had, we validated them by getting them tested. So we actually know how much tryptomines in it. It's not like, because even we seen it, we bought Golden Teacher from one sport provider. You buy it from another sport provider. And it's two different highs, right? So you can't really accurately microdose yourself or accurately dose a patient to really do anything

ethical study-wise or anything if there's no consistency. So that's really what we're aiming for a level of consistency. V, I don't know if you heard anything, but I don't know if you have to... Yes, yes, yes, I hear you, and I'd like to emphasize this, that crop per crop, the same strain with a small difference in parameter, it gives different level of tritamine. and like this cannot be stabilized the production

this is worse our initial scope for this we start to work with the bioreactor for sure took us longer to arrive to have a goal because we could create an organism

to grow a fungus in the bioreactor but after a certain period we are still And this is the unique, I believe, of our approach. Like this, we can deliver in faster period, stabilize compound for analytical standards, and eventually in the future, for clinical trial.

Dr. V, I have a question for you. How is it possible? How can you make sure that one strain that you grow in the bioreactor has a consistent amount of tryptomines. It's almost like it's a clone, but it seems to me that I don't know a whole lot about the growing process, but it seems amazing to me

that you could get a consistent batch of mushrooms to produce a consistent amount of tritamines. How do you do that? It's the circle of life of fungus in this type of cultivation. This type of cultivation is a liquid cultivation, that they eat for

expansion of the mitilium. In our bread strain, we achieve to produce stable, constant

tritamin per merit. Unfortunately, we cannot say openly the amount of treatment per email because we are in talks with various groups and it's under

no confidentiality but the final product that come out is also products for dosable medicine or from microdosing up to gram to the A major is pure psilocybin, that is the product, and we have the capability to transform all this also to silozyl. 99.8%. It's fascinating to think about it. I'm curious, Anthony, maybe before we dive a little bit deeper, maybe you can talk about how you and Dr. V came to this, came to this, came to, the same sort of ideas about growing this company and starting this company? I think it was kind of organic. Me and V had a pretty solid friendship before. Like, we have

been in, I want to say, like, 10 countries together across, like, from in the world, right? Like, we've been to Israel. We've went to Prague together. We went to Spain together. We went to St. Vincent together. We've been to Jamaica together. we've been to, I don't know, countless countries together. And it just, our relationship kind of just grew organically, like, as friends, like, and just went from there, really. I mean, we speak daily, even during the pandemic and everything. And we just get bouncing ideas off of each other and seeing, like, after the pandemic

happened, and we kind of left Jamaica, we were, our next goal was to kind of figure out, okay, well, what do we do now? Like, we have all these, these strains that we kind of build. and building and putting together. So the next step was like, just learning from what we knew about cannabis. I mean, you look at the market for silozybin and there's no, I don't know of anybody or any company right now or any, even the dispensaries in Canada that you can openly go into in the gray market where you can go and say, hey, how much tritamine content does this

penis ivy have or this golden teacher or any strain in the store? They're going to give you, they're going to BS you, right? kind of like just like in the beginning with the cannabis. It was just smells good, looks good, good weed, you know? So it's kind of the kind of take on the mushrooms right now. And we wanted to do everything kind of data driven because we just again, like learning from our experiences from the whole cannabis space. So we knew that there were certain things that added value and there were certain

kind of gaps that were missing in like transparency and a level of a level of efficacy, you know, like for people who are consuming it. and selling it. Like, there's no, right now there's no level of efficacy. In my opinion, personally, like, yeah, okay, he might be a good mycologist and he's growing and everything, but if he's not telling you what's in there, then you might as well take it from anybody, right? You don't really know what you're doing.

You can't dose it accurately. You can't dose yourself consistently. You can't really heal, you know? Like, there's all these great healing properties from psilocybin, but I think with any medicine or anything like that, if you can't do it consistently, you're not going to get consistent results. And then it's just all over the place. So that was really our, I think, approach in building out the company. It was first to do something that was data, data kind of driven. We don't have any psychological background or anything like that, but we just knew that the level of efficacy that

everybody was doing things in was not there. And nothing against ketamine or MDMA, but But we were like, okay, well, we know why these are the chemical, these are the psychedelics that a lot of companies are focusing on and running with. Because they're synthetic. You can create it just like Tylenol. So that was kind of the missing kind of leg there, right? So that's why us being able to produce a naturally occurring compound like we're doing right now and consistently, I think is revolutionary and truly unique for like the people. who are really, I mean, truly seeking that, you know, plant-based medicine. I mean, that this is psilocybin's it and it's truest form.

And I think that there's a little bit of danger involved with taking ketamine as well. I think it's much more addictive, more toxic than psilocybin. And I would say the same for NBMA. Like, I think psilocybin is probably the least toxic drug you can take. So I think it's a positive alternative to any pharmaceutical drug or, you know, plant-based. plant-based medicine that people are taking currently. It's more mystic approach also than a recreational drug in the years, the mastrum. All the movements in the past that they tried to use masks,

they couldn't use it as the contemporaneous drug that just nominate Anthony. Plus, I'd like to return the talk that we have before a little bit because we need to emphasize also the self-life of the compounds in the natural form in mushroom, even in dry mushroom, very good concern. There is a certain period that are stable, the compound. We try to surpass this, and for this, we apply techniques, of extraction and transformation natural from one compound

to find, I mean, between the prodrugs for the cellociding and the cytosine, not just for the epic, for the earlier onset or the different pharmacocinetic approach that have the two compounds, but also for the self-life and the conservation of an API, an active pharmaceutical ingredient in time for millions and for being able to

to market, position it also in the market, because with the source and unstable self-life, it's something with an issue, and this is one of the issue that have the natural compounds in contrast of the chemical. All our approach is to resolve these problematic. that it's normal, it's preventing the natural compounds, and treat them under the pharmacopoeia, to be able to prescribe it as drugs eventually in the future. Yeah, Dr. V, I have a ton of questions for you,

but the sound quality is just killing me on there. So I was... Also my accent, because I'm breaking, you can be like nothing so big means because I'm more natural Italian and Spanish speaker. It's it's but it's it's and I can tell that you have like I got a ton of questions that I would like to get into the whole analysis of it and understanding how you isolate the different parts of it and stuff like that but I think the sound quality is going to be a problem and so I'll just I'll continue to go forward but it's just I wish it was a little bit better but I can try to work on it. I guess my next idea is let me

me tell you why I'm really excited about what you guys are doing. I would agree with both Anthony and Dr. V that, you know, what we've seen over the last 100 years in, you know, pharmaceuticals has been like this sort of gross negligence almost. It's just almost as taking advantage of people and unfortunately taking advantage of sick people. I'm not saying that there hasn't been a lot of great things that have come from medicine. But it seems to me that the placebo is almost as effective as effective as some of the best selling drugs on the market right now. That's kind of a problem.

And when we look at things like psilocybin or we look at things like ayahuasca, you could make the argument that these have been going through clinical trials for the last 400 years. They're obviously some of the safest things out there. And what I see as a natural extension of that is guys like yourselves coming in here. and hopefully being able to not only compete, but take a large share of a new sort of medicine that's coming out. I think that's exciting. And I think it just goes to prove that, you know, people that, you know,

doctors like Dr. V and serial entrepreneurs like Anthony, you guys can compete with the big money players. You know, it's sort of this idea of clinical trials that keeps people, the smaller guys out. But it seems to me we're moving into a world. like cannabis. We're moving into a world like psilocybin where we're going to be able to not only compete, but take some market share. Do you guys see yourself as sort of trailblazing a way for other people to follow behind you? I think definitely we're definitely trailblazing. And I think the

fact that another thing that allows us to to operate and work with such a high level of flexibility and even ourselves, like if we really wanted to and we had enough capital, We could conduct clinical trials in Jamaica. Like, it's no different than cauliflower or broccoli. Like, it's completely legal. So there's the ability to compete with, like you said, this ability to compete with publicly traded companies in a way that they're not doing. And I think we're thinking outside of the box.

When I look at the publicly traded companies, it seems like they're all kind of chasing the same thing. Like they're not, nobody's, there's not one publicly traded company. What we discovered and just saying, okay these are our strains of mushroom and testing them i don't it didn't if we can do it i don't see why a company that's funded with a hundreds of millions of dollars can't do it we literally uh these got connections with the universe of athens and different universities around europe we use their q it reused their cute mr machines we use their hblc machines paid for lab time

tested all of our stuff and just did it as r and d so i don't see why they can't do it as well and are really... I believe that yeah, I believe that with the years we are more realistic in what we target because we have a long experience in R&D

also from the cannabis sector more I'm saying I can say that before 10 years I was more dreamer And it was the period also from 2018 that we act together with Anthony, that we base and we obtain a patent in a cannabinoid acid, in ester form of cannabinoid acid, a new chemical molecules of cannabis

that have miraculous results in cancer cell line and in the animal model that we test them. But we need so big, fun for move on the trial. That was even wrong that we invest capital and we do study this five years to create this molecule. In contrasting mushrooms, having all these background and all this experience, we, as said before,

we don't have a psychologist in the team right now. We cannot run clinical trials. But at the same time, we are very strong in laboratory of testing, isolate, transform the compounds from one form to the other, and be able to deliver in the market. This is the difference of the group of today, of the R&D group of the past. I respond in two questions together. How it's long the relationship that I have in Anthony in the years, because we are connected. with patents in cannabis and long history in NR&D, and how we see now all the competition,

because I believe that they care to see in QNMR how it's the natural cellocybin in contrast with the synthetic cellocybin if they take for drug or for the drug for the psilocyme and to see how they bind in the receptor. I believe even the competition, the big farmer, it's in position of synergy right now, because now it's starting its size,

was cannabis 15 years before, the secondary, my opinion. Let me ask you this. What is the difference do you think? Let's say a firm or a company can just create, for ACODMT or some sort of synthetic synthetic silicebidum. Is that worse,

better than, or equal to taking mushrooms? Check. Taking mushroom, it's not dosable. Taking mushroom can be a sacred experience inside in Amazon or a recreational approach.

For treatment, should be dosable. Now, right now, honestly, I cannot respond you. I can respond you with another example from another psychoactive abyss cannabinoids that we know, that there is big difference in the action how they bind the receptors, the natural cannabinoids with the chemical cannabinoids. The synthetic forms of TAC have to be able to. different effects as the natural compounds and after need a lot of how to say avoid the proverbs.

Let's say that we need more studies for be sure and respond you what is better working in the humans because it's one the model that we do in the computer or the the experience that we set up with looking how they bind the receptor from outside. Different animal models, different to arrive in humans. And also, humans with problematic, mainly the psychedelic and the psilocybin, the psilocybin is for patients that they have psychological disorders, orders are very fragile the of this person for

very experimentation. We need to make secure steps when we'll arrive to work with people like this. We'll help them, not create them more problematic. Because still now the trial that it's running have very significant and very good results. With psilocybin, all the trials,

all the trials that were making for the addiction with alcoholism, for depression, very, very positive and permitting results for keep going the trial. Test the dose, test the purity of the compounds. Yeah, it seems to me that you guys have done quite a bit of research on finding different strains, too. When I was reading through the bio that you guys had said, And you have a pretty deep drawer, man. You've got a pretty big library of different strains.

How many strains have you guys found in there? Do you have cataloged? We have over 100 different strains of psilocybin. But, I mean, there's really only probably like 10 to 12 that we'll end up using. As far as I think I sent you the test results as well. So you can see a lot of them are pretty close in range as far as percolamine content. So there's some that are more unique that have a higher amount of like silesium. which I think is unique because that's like the active right-of-way compound,

then I'll have a quicker onset for patients. But I mean, of the hundred in the library, there's probably only going to, we're probably only going to be using like 10 to 15, 20 at most. I don't think we're going to be using them all. But I mean, it's just how quickly you can breed them and how quickly the mushrooms reproduce, we could cross and breed much more strains than we could ever in our wildest dreams. in two years with cannabis. Yeah, it seems interesting to me.

I was recently talking with a gentleman who's, they've done something interesting. They've created this compound called silumathoxin. What they have done is they've taken the five MEODMT and they fed it to the mushrooms and now the mushroom begins to produce that five MEODMT. So I'm beginning to see these new ways of cultivating. But, you know, I have to agree with Dr. V that I,

And this is my opinion. I believe that there's something to be said about the organic process that follows through with the treatment. You know, and I think when you take an organic product, you have an organic treatment. Once we begin moving into this idea of, you know, creating or adding a molecule here or, you know, putting something into the Cleveland side or something like that, they start making these monsters that may or may not have. bad long-term side effects that we don't know about it. But I am curious to get your opinion on. You guys have both worked with cannabis in the past. Do you see maybe the future of psilocybin shaping up the way that cannabis did?

Are there some pitfalls that we should be aware of? I think the biggest thing is just like any kind of rush, right? Just like there was a green rush for cannabis, I think with this whole renaissance for psychedelics, you're going to find people who are genuine, generally pros at what they do, and there's going to be generally cons at what they're doing. So some people are going to be selling you snake oil, which I'll be honest. I know that psilocybin has great effects and can be used and used to, you know, create a wide, wide to help create treatments for a wide range of mental illness. But I think the biggest thing is some people are just treating it like snake oil, right?

It can fix everything and it can do this and it can do that. And half the people talking, like, I mean, perfect example is all of these studies that we're speaking of, like John Hopkins, all of these guys, all the papers I've read, none of them really mentioned the overall triptamine content of the mushrooms that they're feeding the patient. So there's still like a level that's kind of just missing there in data for it to be fully data driven. So I think that's kind of one way we will Like not change the game But just separate ourselves from the competition And create like a new standard, I think I like the idea of new standards

I think that there's ways I would like to see This may be a pie in the sky idea But I think it's possible to decentralized the clinical trial process, the same way we see this world of decentralization happening in money, the same way we see this decentralized sort of government taking place. I think that the same thing can happen for clinical trials, and I think what you guys are doing can be a big part of that. There's no reason why we couldn't crowdfund a clinical trial.

There's no reason why we couldn't crowdsource a clinical trial and have, you know, you could have your, say, your psychologist, you could have Dr. V in Greece or Jamaica, and then you could have a team of other people throughout the world. And maybe instead of having a patient in a clinical setting, you could have a surveys done where a large-scale survey. And I think you would get, I think that the information you would get from a trial like that would be surprisingly accurate in what is forecast,

you know, what is unable to do. But yeah, I'm excited to see what you guys are moving forward on. And, you know, when I look at some of the similarities between, the green rush, like you said, and what's shaping up here with this psilocybin rush. I'm wondering if you guys have begun to see any new sort of things happening. Like, are we going to start seeing extracts, like 4x and 2x? You know, you start seeing these gummies come out.

What do you guys see? Do you have any ideas of what might be moving in the future right there? I think all the same things we saw in cannabis, right? People are going to be chasing the extracts, the concentrates, the gummy. Like, they're all there right now. I see vapes. I haven't seen any psilocybin vapes. I'm not sure if it's possible,

but I've seen DMT vapes. I've seen people try and make psilocybin edibles. There's tons of chocolates and teas and different things that you can get that are out there. But I don't know. The only thing I haven't really seen has any psilocybin suppositories, which I'm surprised. But you would think... The last type that we saw was DMT.

event in the UK that impressed me. I believe that all these are also psychiatric medicine that the abuse of this compound can create psychosis. We need to be full web. We have also workers in here the sound. can create psychosis if we abuse them.

And also, we return again in the same problematic that has cannabis, the legal extraction, the adulterance that they put inside, that can create, from there, start to create the problematic in the population, plus the abuse of the compound. That means this that we nominate now the DMT vibe, what rest of solvent have inside? Except the secrecy can create if you over it's using. Maybe it has the same bad effects for the lungs that have a very bad vaids in the time

from China that create problems of the state the last three years. And we have this. Yeah, I think the biggest, the biggest thing is just the unknown, but I definitely think that people are going to, people are going to push the boundaries and do everything they can do. Like I said, man, I think, you know, you're going to be seeing every, every and any product you've seen come out of cannabis. I think you'll see a psychedelic product as well. And people are just testing the marketing, seeing what sticks and what doesn't really stick, because it's all pretty new. And I think there's a lot of people who want to get into the space. and there's, in the U.S., there's all these jurisdictions where it's opening up.

In Canada, it's much more, they're pretty lean back. I don't think they're really looking or doing anything, the people growing psilocybin and that's coast to coast, whereas the U.S., it's much more like geographic, California, Oregon, Cal, Colorado. And then you have places like Mexico, Brazil, Jamaica, Samoa, where it's just completely free-for-all, you know, do what you want to do. So I think that that'll be, it'll be interesting how, how I think, I personally am a strong believer in Jamaica and the brand of Jamaica and I, I appreciate what we can do there. And we don't have our hands tied.

So it, it's allowed us to even get to where we are right now because I don't think that being in Canada, we would have been able to operate the way we have been so openly and, and do these kind of things and make the announcements public. and like, you know, just put ourselves out on the front page of what we're doing and what we're trying to achieve and looking for collaboration with investors. Like, we couldn't... I'd like to give a small example in this that you say now, Anthony, about the last work that we've done for the new way of matrices of a tritamini compounds with the QNMR. The idea was initially from the University of Athens, but missing license of a psychedelic.

And like this, we collaborate with the Canada University around the test there that the guys in Canada they didn't know to read them, to return the Fasin in Athens, form makes the presentation in the Congress. Same time now in Jamaica, we are in talks with the university, And we're going to run infinite assembles and presentation and paper about psychedelic mushroom. This capability comes with the synergy that we have here in Jamaica, with the government, with the universities, plus the private sector in this case, our company.

Yeah, I think for the private sector in Jamaica, too, there's big companies there, like Compass and, I think Berkeley's is there as well. There's a wake. There's all these retreats and things that are there right now happening. Right. So I think it's also another good position for us to be in a place like that because what separates one retreat from the other could be purchasing from us. And knowing that, you know, you know there's a level of consistency in what you're providing these patients or your clients who come to your retreats. So I think that'll be pretty interesting to see.

And I know Berkeley's is running, they have their studies in clinical trials. So I think it'll be nice. I think where we're positioned is in a right place to collaborate with some of these guys. And, you know, show them what we have and show them that there's a better approach to, I guess, the psilocybin that they've been giving to people and testing people. So we can show them that everything we have is database, more ethical, transparency. So, you know, you can give this golden teachers to your patients or you can give them the golden teacher that you don't know the trip to me content. and you'll have no consistency. Or even pure compounds.

We concentrate from the muscle, we analyze and we can deliver as much they want for their trial. 10MZ, 15MZ, 20MZ, depends how it's their problem with their doctor. It's not problem. Also, pro-drug, you want to submustrade pro-drug and happen all the reaction. the stomach or you want easier and quicker on set and then to submit the drug. Plus this is new, it's the first time we say it in the on air, we, the triptamin is four but one is not active

and we have a variety that has high concentration and we'd like to find a synergy because we managed to use easily anything to see how working trials because can buy the receptor can give results in the patent without the hype but honestly without trials we cannot respond to sure we have gained the compound for synergy to give it to a third short party yeah so I think to to V's point is what we're looking to really do is explore all like I believe V correct me if there's wrong but I think there's four major compounds in psilocyma.

Psychoactive to a non-psychoactive. So we're also looking to explore with some of the non-psychoactive compounds that are in psychedelic mushrooms to see what effects those will have on people as well. And we're also looking to grow non-psychedelic mushrooms as well. Reiki lines made all those popular ones as well. But I mean, I think right now our main focus has been on the psychedelics just because it's just market trends. What's kind of trending right now?

what's, you know, picking up traction. And so that's kind of where we're looking at that right now. But I think definitely we're going to be exploring compounds in psychedelic mushrooms, non-psychedelic mushrooms, and as well as really, like V said, we want to see what is the effect of the non-psychedelic compounds that are in these psychedelic mushrooms, right? Like, do they have enough, do they play a role in this whole experience that people are having? Can we give people some of these effects that they're having for psilocybin without silo?

in psilocybin. So that's kind of our next kind of rabbit hole we want to dive into. And like you said, it can be easily crowdfunded. We're in Jamaica. It's running surveys and stuff. I'm sure there's a lot of university

kids, tourists who are coming to the island. Even if they're there for a week or two weeks, all the data is good data. The more data we have better, right? So I think the possibilities are endless as far as that goes. Yeah, I want to Since you were talking, like, first time, I'm stoked on you and Dr. V for being here.

And I really enjoy listening to what you guys have planned for the future. And I am psyched on psychedelics for the future. But I think Jamaica has an incredible opportunity. And here's what I've been thinking about that I don't think anybody else is thinking about. You know, when you go to, when you think about grapes and think about wine. If you want to get champagne, you can only get champagne from France. If you want to get Prosecco, it has to be Italy. If you want to get tequila, it has to be a certain region of Mexico.

No, I think that Jamaica is uniquely set up to have a certain strain of mushrooms or a certain brand of mushrooms, like champagne, like a certain grape has champagne. Yeah, like a terroir, like we want to create like a terroir here kind of like mushrooms. And I think there is a local variety of mushrooms that grow, I think, between like Cuba, island of Hispaniola, Dominican and Haiti and Jamaica. So there is, there is like a local variety of mushrooms that grows there. I think we, we do have some of it. It's not very potent, but I definitely, I definitely think there's a possibility to do that, you know,

for people who want to have mushrooms that are indigenous to that region. So I think there's, and I also think that majority of the psychedelic mushrooms are going to be more, mostly found in, like, more tropical climates as far as that goes. I mean, there's psychedelics that you can find in Oregon and stuff, but I believe that more varieties are found across, like, the kind of equatorial equatored belt around there. So in, like, Central America, the Caribbean, I would imagine even, like, Asia must have some different ones

in India as well. Of course. So, yeah, I definitely think that that's a possibility. For a liquid culture for nicodontistic purpose, we have of the local varieties because we collaborate also with a local department but honestly speaking

to emphasize with what Anthony say here yes are psychedelics but certainly it's not the same psychedelic. Oh we lost him but I think what he's going to say is it's not the same psychedelics as what people are used to in North America they're much more potent

like the Exactly. Yeah. The psychedelics that people are buying and taking already in Canada and in the U.S. This would be a microdose. Like the indigenous mushrooms that grow in Jamaica would be like good for microdosing and act about it. Not a eagle trip or a heavy trip or anything like that. It will just be good for microdosing.

I definitely think there's something to be explored there as far as, you know, Jamaica having its own terroir around psilocybin because I wanted to introduce that and have that for cannabis. But it's a good brand. I think I don't see why not. I think those countries that can definitely have that that claim stake to it. It's just I guess who will be the front runner of that. Yeah. And I think that's a whole different form of branding and crowdsourcing.

It's analogous in a way, though, because you have alcohol that you need to sterilize everything with. You have different levels of alcohol that do different things. You know, and Dr. Fia, I got a question for you. Do you think that, and I know that none of us are psychiatrists and we're just kind of spithballing here. But in my mind, I'm wondering if maybe different strains of mushrooms or different levels of psilocybin, we may find out these different levels or different strains treat different ailments. Is that something that could possibly happen? I don't know if you heard you. Yeah.

But I think, I think, I think. What do you think, I think for, for, I don't know if it's different strains in particular. I think it's strictly the compound and strictly the amount of the compound the patients taking, probably based on their illness and maybe body weight would have something to do with it. I know like for a lethal dose of psilocybin, your body weight has something to do with it. As far as the medicinal purposes, I definitely, I don't think the strains have much to do with it. I think it's more the compounds that are in there. And then, like I said, it could be as well as you might have a point for certain things.

Because of the four compounds that are in Silcibin, one of the four might be higher in a different variety than another. And maybe that non-psychoactive compound has some medicinal effects that we don't know about. But, I mean, I don't know enough to kind of say yes or no. But I think my opinion on it right now is just basically, on the study that I've seen, it's mostly all the studies have been psilocybin, this, this many MGs of pure psilocybin, 20, 10, 30 to treat a helmet. I don't know if there's, um, if there's really like certain strains that are good for certain things, but I think it would be interesting in seeing, like I said before, the other...

There is, I believe, also, the relationship between the lack of data that was in the But in the nature there is strains that some of them have more silozymes than psilocybin. And vice versa. We have different in the effect. Some strains have longer the onset. You feel the high later, but is longer the duration. other strange, a very quick concept because contain more silozyme in contrast of psilocybin

and they look stronger because the effect comes quicker. All this confused what we know till today, I believe, and now start the true R&D and the examinations trained by strain the percent was the potency and eventually how should be used but honestly speaking I don't believe that we use at the end strain but clean compounds for a medicinal purpose

yeah that makes sense it's I've been often wondering lately like you know when let's say you take a moderate dose say like five grams or even three and a half grams you know the it seems to me the way in which psilocybin works is that it comes in these waves but much like dr v was saying sometimes the interval between waves is shorter sometimes it's longer sometimes it's stronger sometimes it's weaker and it's that particular method of action that makes me curious about the interaction of different kind of compounds you know it's it's interesting to think that if you stack compounds, maybe that duration of wave is shorter, maybe the height or frequency of the waves is more intense. But I think that's something really worthy of research,

at least that I'm looking into in the future, is, you know, it might it be possible to look at oceanography, to see how a wave breaks in the ocean? Is that the same way that the wave hits us when we're taking psilocybin? It's kind of a crazy thing to think about, but I think that there's, like that's what trips me out, Anthony and Dr. V is. What is making the duration of the waves? What is increasing the intensity of the waves? Because I think that that has to be, if we just take, if I take 40 ACMB,

4 ACOTMT, and then I take a penis envy one day, and then I take a blue mini another day. You know, drag me. It's more confusing from what you nominate. Why? Because even if it starts, change the nutrients in the medium, change also the same strain in potency from crop to crop.

If change the parameters of humidity in the growth center, change the percent of secondary metabolites. For this reason, the same variety, let's go in something familiar, the Liberty Cup in UK, from terroar to terroar, different the potency. It's not for recreational purpose, all this story, all this drama, but it's not a useful tool

for medicinal purpose. It blows my mind. We have a guest that asks this question. Let me put it up so people can see. This comes from Benjamin George. MEOI is definitely impact the waves in duration. That would be the, I think that they take some, sometimes in ayahuasca they take an MAO inhibitor. So I guess that would be a protein that stops the waves or duration is what he's saying.

Any thoughts on that? I believe the Maori in Ayahuasca have to do with activation to fulfill the compounds. I'm not so familiar with Ayahuasca, but from what I read works like the two compounds. Yeah, I agree. I think that's, that's, what, let me ask you this, Anthony, what, what are you most excited about for the future of psychedelics and theogens in the upcoming year? I think I'm, I'm excited for the studies, more research, more data. I think that's really what I'm looking forward to, um, legislations opening up and more people just taking a, a, new kind of outlook on it. It's not just like a hippie drug, you know? Like, I think it has benefits deeper and well beyond what the general public perceives it to be. I think it's just a matter of us kind of unlocking it and using these kind of natural tools to naturally heal

ourselves instead of what we've been doing, which is like process and preservatives and synthetics and all of these things. So I think it's just to stay. Take a step back and start some... I'm big on the natural compounds, so I'm not going to deny that. So I think that's what I'm most excited for what the breakthroughs that will have and more of these natural compounds as far as the psilocybin goes.

And I think that COVID was a blessing and a curse because I think that opened up a lot of people's eyes to how, and for a lack of a better terms, we, how fucked up we are. You know, you were trapped. You were trapped in this box, like, by yourself or with your significant other or with your kids or with whatever. And you didn't have the necessary vices or ability to go outside or just escape these things. So then you're kind of just there by yourself.

Either by yourself or with your family. And then, like, all these kind of things just start opening. And you just open Pandora's box and you realize, okay, maybe I'm a little stress or I have OCD or I suffer from anxiety or like all these little. things just people just started kind of opening up the door and understanding and realizing more and I think that now there's a much more today I think even like today

versus post post COVID like pre-COVID like well I don't think we're post-COVID and still kind of in it but I think like now there's a much more acceptance to like mental health mental illness and these things are much more talked about

I think it's like I don't know about in the States so much but I know we have like mental illness day and week in Canada and all these things. So it's much more mainstream and the whole, the whole kind of wellness, like just healthy, healthy like physically, mentally, spiritually, you know, I think that's kind of a big, big thing right now. Yeah, I like that. I agree.

I think that in a lot of ways, COVID was a blessing. I think it allowed us, it allowed us to take a little break and look at who we are and what we're doing and if we like who we are and if we like what we're doing. And I think a lot of people found out they didn't really love who they were and they didn't love what they were doing. And it's interesting because the same thing happens on a psychedelic experience. You know, a lot of people have a psychedelic experience where they look inward and they say, you know what, I don't like this about me or I don't like the way I'm stressed out about

this. And I think it would be a fascinating survey to see people who have spent time with theogens and psychedelics what their thoughts were on the COVID and what they've done about it. But it's interesting. It's a fascinating time to be alive. And, you know, on another idea of legislation in psychedelics, in Colorado, it seems to me that while the legislation has been a big boon for a lot of people, it also seems to be pushing out some of the smaller people in making room for the pharmaceutical industries. I'm wondering what you think if that is a not, is that as something else that could happen, or is that just like a natural progression of legalization?

Do you think the same thing could happen to psilocybin? Yeah, I think the same thing will happen with, well, I think much more than cannabis, it'll happen with psilocybin. Pharmac companies wanting to step in. As much as I'm a big cannabis advocate, I think that there are medicinal properties to cannabis, don't get me wrong, but I think across the kind of mainstream, broad range, most people are taking it recreationally, maybe therapeutically. No different than you, you know, like, for instance, I always tell people in Jamest,

they're like, well, it's, is it medical or what is it? It's therapeutic. Like, you can come into, you can come into a dispensary in Jamaica. And if you just have a significant other, that's enough reason to get it for cannabis, right? Like, most people, if you, if you have a reason to have a beer or smoke a cigarette, you can probably get a prescription for cannabis in Jamaica, right? There, there's, there's, there's, um, there's that kind of aspect of it. So, I think that, um, it'll be, it'll be kind of interesting what, what happens going forward with the psychedelics and what happens there in that realm? I believe because it's a different type of experience between to smoke and join

than take one dose of psychedelic muscle, time depending also. The intends of the experience that I believe that the audience, even with recreational purpose, will be more different audience, a little bit more, we know what they are doing, because they dedicate in four, five hours of food and sky. It's a little bit like the edibles in cannabis. Certainly, we risk the same problematic that have the edibles in cannabis.

For accidents from small children or for people that they run tests, and accidentally they can fail in a test in the world, start another ethic how we need to deal and approach these pensaries with mushrooms. Yeah. And I think also, too, with the, a big difference between the, like the psychedelics versus cannabis is there are countless studies happening around psychedelics. I think there's like 100, over 100 happening currently and maybe like three or 400 in the pipeline. I don't think there was ever this much interest in like actually studying cannabis, learning about it, learning all the, the cannabinoids and all this kind of thing.

There's much more institutional money going into it, government money going into it from, and this is, and it's more global, I think, too. whereas cannabis was kind of isolated in little pockets. You had like the guys were doing what they were doing in California. You had some guys doing it in Canada. You had some guys in Holland. Whereas like when I read about the psilocybin is it's like happening all over. There's companies in Israel. There's companies in the UK.

There's companies in Netherlands. There's companies in just every, almost every jurisdiction, every continent. Something's happening, whether it's a company doing it or the government's looking to reform or put some studies in or looking to legalize it. or there's much more talks about it. And don't get me wrong, I think cannabis helped grandfather and have a lot of these conversations for these legislations, right? So it's like cannabis maybe paved the way a little bit

to help people digest it. Because I think definitely cannabis is easier pill to swallow than say, hey, I'm going to go take LSD. Like, you know, somebody thinks LSD, they think, like, okay, this guy is going to be tripping forever. And whereas cannabis, okay, you smoke to join. he just eats the whole fridge out, but LSD, you know, like, I'm sure we've all heard crazy stories and, like, they can all induce psychosis.

They'll have, like, their negative side effects. But I definitely think that that psilocy, like the, not even just psilocybin, but psychedelics in general will be bigger because there's more studies conducted on it in the past, present, and from what I can see coming in the future, there's more studies than I ever heard of in cannabis. Yeah. I think that money is a giant issue. And I've seen the way in which they're slow rolling out legislation, at least in my opinion, to maximize and then to maximize profits and find a way for the big farmer to kind of wrap their arms around it as a whole.

And I'm wondering if, you know, in my darker moments, it seems to me that if the biggest pharmaceutical companies are unable to fully wrap the tentacles around it, I think you could see some. something like the 60s happen again. I think you could see a Jonestown or a Manton or some sort of reason avail itself where they shut everything down. It's sort of like, I'm going to take my ball and go home if we can't control it. You know, and I'm wondering if you guys see any sort of, you know, even if they're hypothetical, some sort of giant things playing out if things don't go a certain way or do you see any sort of walls that could be up against? for the walls i think definitely the the just the governments really i mean i think even for the u.s you guys got you guys don't even have cannabis legalized or decriminalized even on a federal level so i think

a big a big the u.s is a big global player in kind of global relations global things the the u.n. drug reforms and all these things so i think whatever the u.s does kind of the rest of the road will follow. And if they'll be watching you guys pretty closely, I think other jurisdictions and other places. And a lot of that, too, like to another point is like the banking, right? That's a big thing. Right.

You can't grow your company without good banking legislation. But right now, psilocybin is a class one drug. Majority of companies, they're, sorry, majority of countries, their biggest capital reserves are in U.S. dollars. There's no way they're going to bank a drug that's class one drug. in that country and lose their all their reserve money or their access to like U.S. markets because you're starting a little psilocybin

or little ketamine company or whatever you're doing, right? Like these countries don't want to lose that relationship with the U.S., and I can strongly informally say that with Jamaica. They don't want to lose that relationship with the U.S. I don't think Mexico wants to lose that relationship with the U.S. I don't think Brazil. I don't think any of these countries where Silisibin is completely legal, they do not want to jeopardize.

relationship with the U.S. So I think the legislation for the U.S. is a big thing in shaping what happens globally just because of the U.S. dollar having such a grip on the global economy, right? Because it's not even, to the point, it's not even about the legislation in your country. It can be completely legal in your country, but no bank wants to take your money because their reserves are all in U.S. and they just don't want to expose themselves to that level of risk, right? and you have all these, what is it, like,

terrorist acts and anti-drug and narcotics, all these things, like, they'll, yeah, like, I've had my accounts closed down in Jamaica for my canvas company several times on just, I forget what the, they had, there's like a, there's like a thing they send you, like a letter, and it's literally, that's what it is. It's like they're pretty much anti-terrorist

and anti-drug or money laundering, and like all these kind of things they're afraid of, right? So I think Big Farmer will do whatever they can do to, like you said, it's money. Everything's about money in this day and age. It seems so they will definitely do what they can do to prevent the growth and inhibit

the growth or take control of the growth as best they can. Yeah, that seems to be the American way. You know, we, for better or for worse, they tend to if you got, if every, what is the quote that says if you have a hammer, every problem looks like a nail?

Something like that. Yeah. Dr. V, I'm wondering. What, as someone who has spent a lot of time, you know, in the medical community and doing research, and I know you don't speak for all doctors, but would you say there's a positive aura around the world of psychedelics right now? I didn't hear all the questions. I hear my child, sorry. The signal it wasn't good.

Can you repeat? Sure. So I know you don't speak for all the doctors, but do you think that maybe for all, for some of your colleagues, what do you? you think that is there a positive outlook for psychedelics in the future? I believe that need time to mature. Right now, we are in the first steps that some institution with some universities, they are interesting to compute studies and they start to compute studies. It's like the very, very first years in cannabis. We need to mature all of us from this process.

And because certainly it's a solution for various problematic of a big part of mental pathologist, I believe that my colleague going to follow. But it's a scarce of time. If you press it, I believe it's not the right approach need studies, more studies

and more R&D. I believe that in mushrooms we are say it again Oh no, please go ahead. No, no, no. I was saying that now all the companies

are pioneers, even the companies with a synthetic approach, even us and other companies that they are trying to work with natural compounds. Now we rediscover what the salmon work with our ancestors a thousand of years. Yeah, I agree.

I'm wondering about this, Dr. V. It seems to me that there are real risks for people who have mental illness and psychedelics. But there's a whole other class of people that may use psychedelics in a responsible way. for other sort of problems. And it seems to divide in the medical community maybe how do we separate these groups? Do you think that maybe for people that have documented mental problems,

that maybe they should have to have a prescription or they should have to do it in a different way than someone that doesn't have a problem with depression? Or how do you think that we could separate the at-risk people from people that may not be at-risk as much? It's a very, very long discourse of this. Have in mind that I'm Greek. And in the ancient times in Greece, we have the LFC new mysteries. I believe also healthy citizens need once per time, once in life. once in lifetime to have a psychedelic experience because you start to re-evaluate different your ego.

But with the true world of ego, not the ego of Mota, the is that the age that takes in the Asian greed for ego, yourself, your inner self, and the relationship that you have with the others around you and your position in the community and in the planet. And I believe that for open this door of perception, some of us need help. And this help or a vehicle, let's say it's better a vehicle. Can be the psychedelics. for other people can be the religion. Every individual is different. But I believe my approach,

how I raised the phrase that I have in school and in the university, I'm from this type of person that we believe in second age, in the... How they can contribute with the society. But it needs a lot of ethics for giving it in the society. It's a big tool. Even the secret of the Lesothian mysteries, only the sarched not know about the lycergic acid

and how to do the process. It was a big scandal once that it fused the secret and Alcibiard is a politician, and use it in a seborchumina. Some of these stories is a good example to follow today. Yeah, I think that I wrote a book a while back,

and in my book I argued that we need a return of the Eucinian Mysteries. It seems to me that, you know, in my mind, if I close my eyes and I imagine myself at a giant open feeder where on one side of me, there is someone from the lowest class and on someone on the right hand side of me, there may be Elon Musk and together we're watching the birth and death of Persephone and Demeter and all of a sudden

the daughter's gone. We as a group collectively take in something that is a real tragedy. It's like we as a group experience that tragedy together and then we come through that tragedy together. And it's almost, it's almost a type of language that is beyond words because we can experience something together. And I think on a light dose of psychedelics or even a moderate dose of psychedelics, that's the same thing that's happening in a ceremonial setting. And that's, that's kind of where a lot of being is done. When we together are going through tragedies and solving those tragedies, that is the great equalizer in line. Because it doesn't matter, you're raised, your religion, your age, your stature. hey we did this together

and we're something we can have forever like you'll never forget that experience yeah I've actually read about a lot of indigenous first nations people in the states as well as in Canada

like they would have the that's what they would do they would take either psilocybin I think I awash as well and they would go in the sweat lodge and they do it like as a community whoever was the alcoholic so like trouble people in the community and the healers would heal them. So I definitely think that there is something to the healing process as a community together

with people versus just experiencing it by yourself. And to something you said earlier, I think maybe people that have psychosis, they maybe need to experience it by themselves with a psychiatric. And then maybe people who are less vulnerable or less thing, they can experience it in a communal kind of setting, something like that. But I mean, those are all things for us to explore. no better place in Jamaica to do it. But I think that there's definitely

something there. I think you definitely hit the nail on the head there. I think there's people who have psychosis definitely can't take it in the same way that's someone who doesn't. And maybe there's something in taking a dosage in a communal kind of environment that can maybe

enhance it. So I agree. I definitely agree with that. Yeah, you know, it's interesting to think about if some in a group setting, if there is someone experience there, if someone does begin to have a bad one, you know, you want that someone with experience to at least pull them out of there a little bit. But this brings me to an idea of retreats, which you guys said there's a bunch of them in Jamaica. You know, I've been reading some different accounts of people who are, you know, the idea of going to Brazil, the idea of going to Jamaica, the idea of going to a different place to experience or have this psychedelic experience in some ways seems a little bit obtuse to me because, you know, if I go to Brazil, like,

I'm not from Brazil. I don't speak Portuguese. Like, you know, how much am I missing the translation of what's actually happening? And some white guy from Caucasian acres over here, what do I know about what's going on down there? Am I missing out on some of the transformative of information by going to this other culture and, you know, definitely getting an experience, but am I getting the experience that that doctor would give to somebody else? Because I don't understand it. I'm wondering if things get lost in strength when people repeat from different cultures. What do you think?

For sure. I think things definitely get lost in translation. It's inevitable, I think, you know, there's such different cultural, even me. I'm of Jamaican descent. I've been going to Jamaica my whole life, and there's certain things that I just can't. You know, if somebody tells you in Jamaica soon come, that could be five minutes or five hours.

You don't know. Like, it's just there's certain things that are not the same. So I definitely hear that. And something I was thinking about is, like, for people that are going on a psychedelic, you know, adventure or trip, I was looking into it and thinking, like, I think the whole metaverse and, like, the virtual reality could be something.

something to standardize that. Like if there was somebody who's like tech savvy who works with a psychologist who can be like, okay, this is, this is like the visual effects and the sounds that said person needs to hear for four to six hours and, you know, like, then kind of standardize it or even, you know, I don't know, I don't know what they can do, but I think that's something that would be interesting to kind of keep the, uh, the, I guess, consider the environmental consistency for what the patient is going into. Because like, you know, I know, When you go to some retreats or you do some things, they would have the, they would have the patient blindfolded. Other people, it's more communal.

Everybody's holding hands and partaking it together. So I think that if we can have like some kind of virtual reality as a happy medium where somebody, you know, they say, okay, like this is kind of the traditional, traditional kind of traditional approach to having a shaman there or somebody to guide you through. this trip, but we're modernizing it with, you know, this VR headset or this video that you're watching while you're taking this trip. I think that is something like it could help, could help the whole kind of industry to not only excel, but I think treat a lot more people because it's expensive right now to treat, to get, to go and get like, whether it's ketamine or whether it's psilocy. Any psychedelic treatment to get assisted treatment is expensive.

And that'd be, whether it's a shaman who says he's had taken people on a thousand trips, they're going to charge you $2,000. Or if you go to one of these legitimate publicly traded companies, it could be $5,000, you know, like, so it's really expensive. It's not cheap at all. So I think there's, that's a real barrier of entry from people receiving the help that they need and could possibly want. So I think whoever, whoever does something like that to standardize it or make it more accessible, more obtain. for people will be a big, big step. Yeah. In some ways, one of the things I love about, about psychedelics or entheogens is that they're kind

of hard to commercialize. You know, it's in some ways that's a giant barrier for entry because if it costs $2,000 or $4,000, the people that might need the therapy the most probably don't have that kind of money to, or how they're going to get two weeks off to go somewhere or, you know, how are they to get on this waiting list and you know yeah no some is it's i i definitely i hear you loud and i'm right now i'm i'm in vancouver and there's tons of people here that i think could benefit well a lot of addict addiction here so i think there's a ton of people here that exactly are in that box that you just said you know they can benefit from it more than the guy who has 10,000 dollars to go

to retreat probably right light years more than that guy but they're never going to have one two three, four, five thousand dollars put aside to go and get help and go and get treatment. So yeah, I think that that's your, yeah, it's true. It's a barrier of entry. Yeah. And I think, but, you know, with, with barriers of entries come shortcuts sometimes. And shortcuts aren't always good. But I think that this does pave the way for, you know, small.

And I think that this is one of the things that's happening is that people are trying to figure route the legislative branch as far as licensing. And this gets us back into the people that may have serious mental illness. That person should probably go see a therapist before they do any kind of psychedelic. However, if, let's say me or you or somebody we know has been working with in Theogens for 20 years, 25 years, and you have a friend at work that you've known for five years and you know that this person just lost somebody. I think that, you know, having the access to psychedelics

and allowing an individual who may not be a doctor but has worked with a substance for quite some time, that person may not be a doctor, but they could definitely be a facilitator or a trip sitter. And they could probably get really good results with someone in their family, someone they care about,

or a friend of a friend that they care about. And I think that that's kind of the great democratization of medicine coming. And I think in Theogens are kind of showing us that. What's your take on maybe the experienced user helping out people in their direct circle? I think that's the only way. That's the only way for the majority of people to kind of get access to a guided trip, right? Because who's going to pay $5,000, $3,000 to go and sit down with a psychologist who you don't know, you don't trust.

You maybe don't even want to open up to this person, right? Right. So I think that, yeah, definitely if you have somebody who's a part of your network and a part of your circle of people that can help you indulge on one of these trips, I think that to trips at you, that's probably your best bet. Your best bet right now. I think there's going to be no majority of the people who need the help can't afford it. So that's really their only option, right? It's either that or reading Reddit posts forever trying to find somebody to help you. So I think, yeah, it's a, and even, even it's just, it's hard in general for people to come and say, hey, like, you know, like, I'm, like, I'm, like, I don't know what's wrong, but something's wrong. Like, I'm feeling really sad or I'm feeling a little, like, you know, suicidal or I'm just like, I have, like, this intense level of anxiety that I sweat every time I go to, I don't know, public speaking or something like that. Like, you know, like, I just think a lot of people, think back to what we spoke about earlier. A lot of people wear like a mask, right?

Like you have this mask on that you portray yourself to society. So it's kind of, it's, I think society looks at mental health as a weakness, right? So people are scared to admit their weakness and their vulnerabilities. And that's, I think that's another big hurdle, right? Like, once the general population has a different outlook and mindset on it, then maybe more people will come forward, right? There's so many, I mean, I'm an ex-athlet and I got to meet yesterday. Oh, man, Corey Hellshir, I believe that's his name. He's a hockey player.

He's a goalie who won the silver medal. And he suffered, he was like the first, the first NHL player to admit that he was suicidal. And, like, came out, had an article out. And he had this article and he told us it had like two, like two, three million hits on it. like LeBron James kind of article. And he's just a regular NHL keeper. He's not like the best one out there, like, well, like Wayne Gretzky of hockey, right?

But I think that it was so, people were so, it touched and reached so many people because he wasn't alone. I'm sure there's tons of athletes. You know, he's supposed to be this tough hockey player. It's supposed to be this tough football player that are suffering inside. But because you're the tough guy, you're on your NHL team. Another guy I know, Riley Coltier, He's a, he's a, an HL player, and I spoke to him various times, and he was, like, an enforcer.

So he's literally, his job is to go out there and bang you up, beat you up, and that's it. And, like, you know, he's had, I think, tremendous benefits from psychedelics and cannabis as well. And I think just for them to open up and tell people what they're suffering from and what they're dealing with, it's hard for all of these guys, whether it be football, hockey, basketball, golf, tennis. These guys are under tremendous pressure. and, you know, like, every day they, you miss a shot, you've got 20 million people on Twitter and Instagram, just caring you to shred. And not everybody, not like a regular person's never going to have to deal with that. Like, I mean, if you, like, well, I mean, you can see it right now. If you have an adolescent kid who has to deal with, you know, prayer pressures and bullies and stuff online, some of them don't know how to deal with that.

And then they turn to being depressed. They turn to suicide. They turn to all these kind of negative things because they don't want to, I guess. I don't know what they don't want to do. But my thought processes is the fear of going and keeping home, right, is kind of the big thing. Yeah, I agree. And I think that that is, if I could piggyback on to that, the topic of masks, the topic of pure pressure, the topic of anxiety, depression,

all these small things that daily happen to us that begin blocking our way or making us think a different way. It seems to me that a lot of the profound effects that come from psychedelics are the ideas of you seeing yourself in a different way. Hopefully that's a more honest way. Hopefully that's a different outlook or a different understanding of who you are. But that's what leads you to solve your own problems. It seems to me that one thing that's so profound about psychedelics is the understanding that comes with it.

And it takes time to process. Like if you have a big trip and you go, you know what? I probably shouldn't kick my cat. You know, I don't think he likes that. It makes me feel a little good. First of all, I don't kick my cat. But, you know, I think people have this. understanding like, oh, God, I don't know why I was doing that. What the hell is wrong with me?

Why would I do that? But it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's this lifetime of being put into a world where we're forced to go to work for 10 hours. Maybe it's this education system where we're not really taught about real history, but we're taught about someone's idea of history. Maybe all this psychosis and all this mental illness and all this depression and all these societal ailments have just been the, the world stacking up on us for 10, 15, 20 years. And if you look at, it seems that psychosis for people begin to really establish themselves in the teenage years. And think about how much repression has gone through.

By the time you're a teenager, man, you've put up with a lot of crap, especially if you came from a broken home or, you know, if you had one parent that was maybe an alcoholic or, you know, it just seems to me that psychedelics, and this is, I'm not a psychologist like that, but it seems that psychedelics tend to put us in a position where we see ourselves as part of nature. And I'm curious, like, what is your take on the idea of that spiritual nature? It seems that we've, I'm not a particularly religious person, but it seems that psychedelics have a spiritual component to it. And that spiritual component helps relieve a lot of the stress, you know, whether you're a enforcer in hockey, or whether you're George the UPS driver or you're Anthony, the. serial entrepreneur.

What is your take with the relationship between spirituality and psychedelics? Yeah, I think there's definitely like a spiritual kind of element there because it allows you to, I guess, step back and kind of see things from like a broad view, you know? It's almost like, how can I say? It's like, it's like, it's almost like if you were like playing like Grand Deft Auto and you're seeing everything around you in like third person view, like you're away from the situation. you can see everything, you kind of know what's going on,

you can slowly kind of break it down, depending on how much mushrooms you take, like things are more intensified, and that'll be just simply from looking at like a glass of water. You feel like you can see the molecules in it. You can see the H2O, like actually there. You can see these elements. You can hear and see the sound more vibrant,

more colors and colors and more vibrant and that kind of thing. So I definitely think there's, a spirituality there as well because you'll see people, not that I'm like very religious. I think I'm more spiritual than religious, but you'll see people in religion a lot of time, and that's their spirituality, but they get some kind of, I guess, an outer body experience from, you know, like I'm sure you've seen some guy past the person and the person shaking on the ground and they had like a revelation. So I think that there's definitely the same kind of thing with psychedelics.

And I think that there's, I think to what V was saying earlier, some people feel it through psychedelics. Some people will see it through religion. Some people may find that through art. It just really, I guess, is finding your kind of your way to, I guess, find and seek enlightenment. I guess would be the right term to say. Yeah, I think that's really what it is. So whatever brings people that sense of enlightenment. And that's what it is for some people.

It's psilocybin. I can't remember exactly, but there's like a Buddhist statue. It's in the Royal Museum in Ontario, in Toronto. And it's crazy that he has, like, all these things. Like he has, like, all these, like, different articles on him. It's like a statue. And one of the things is a mushroom. He has, like, one of the things he has on him is a mushroom.

Like, I can't remember what the statue is. called but it was just really interesting to me that this buddhist statue from i don't know thousands of years ago you know they have all of these kind of life teachers and one of the things he has is a mushroom so i think it's definitely spiritual because it's uh has very similar very similar effects and and things that i've heard very religious people speak about then that's kind of i think majority of people when they think spirituality, they think religion. But there's obviously another level of spirituality. But I think that the same effects that religion has on people and the enlightenment and the, the, you know, the never-ending quest to find God and praise God.

I think there's the same thing that people feel around psychedelics. Like they've had such life-changing experiences that they start to, you know, all hail psychedelics. Like they're just, they're gung-ho on it. And they're, so I think it's the same thing. It's definitely, definitely spiritual. Definitely spiritual. Yeah, I like the way you said that. And I wish we had a better connection with Dee because I,

guys totally brilliant. And I love what the guys talking about. And I, I, another question I, I'm curious. And maybe, maybe we'll have some more, maybe we can have more conversations later. We can get everybody back on. But one of the ideas I was thinking about was, you know, we have all these neurotransmitters in our brain.

And they all, you know, get serotonin and dopamine and they all fulfill these different roles. You know, in a theory that I have, it seems to me that psilocybin might that be just like an endogenous neurotransmitter that we haven't had? Because I get this feeling and I've had other people tell me something similar. After taking a relatively large dose of psychedelics, it's like, oh, everything makes sense now. And there's this sense of well-being that tends to come the day after.

of clarity, the sense of like, okay, now I feel like I figured some things out. And that almost seems to fulfill the role of a neurotransmitter. And when we talk about spirituality and religion, one thing to me that those things do for people is it grounds them. It makes people understand that there's something bigger than themselves. And it seems to me that, you know, there's a lot of people that say, oh, you know, when I take mushrooms, I feel like I talk into the planet. I feel like I'm talking to God.

I feel like I'm talking to someone bigger than me. And it almost, this is probably going to sound a little bit crackpot, but it seems to me that you can understand the environment you're in when you were taking, especially mushrooms. You know, and it's just so fantastic to me to learn about the way in which mushrooms move nutrients around roots, to way in which they move energy from plant A to plant B. And like, why wouldn't it be the same thing that's happening in your brain structure that's happening in a root system? Like, what, you know, and I know this is fantastical, but there's all kinds of literature written about this and different books.

And I think that there's a real connection between the earth and ingesting mushrooms in your understanding of your environment. Does that sound too crazy, Anthony? No, I think, I think you're like, like right on, like my cilium is like, it's the, big connector, right? Like, it's the big connector. And I think it's like when you, the same way that, you know, I think it's, where's the biggest thing?

I think it's in Oregon, like that biggest stuff, like life thing of mycelium. The same way that, that you, when you take psychedelics, like I've seen, I don't know if you've seen the picture, but I think it might be the John Hopkins picture where they show like the, the activity in the brain, right? Like it just goes, it's like day and night.

So there's definitely something there that, that's creating more kind of, neurological kind of activity with the with the psychedelics and I think you see that and you know that it's definitely doing something neurologically and psychologically to people when you see the addiction right like when people yes when there's a lifetime alcoholic drinker or a lifetime cigarette smoker or an opioid addict even who

does you know one two three four sessions of psychedelics and it's like not all of them maybe maybe quit but the success rate of the people who relapse is way, way, way, way better than like the traditional approach. I think like for alcohol anonymous, I think they got like five or five or seven percent success rate for people who go through that program, where studies they've done with psilocybin, they've had, after 24 months, 67% of the subjects don't go back to drinking alcohol.

And like each month, it's like, I think it was like month, month. 3 was like 89% And then it just slowly goes like Got a little lower but the 24 month Mark 67% of the people Cold turkey stop drinking alcohol So there's definitely something that is doing to your brain receptors Kind of like hit that reset button

Like I don't need this substance I don't need this anymore It's doing something It's either resetting your brain or reprogramming your brain or just doing something to Give you that spiritual enlightenment To take a step back and really see what you're doing to yourself, you know?

Yeah. So I definitely... I pulled me a look at it. So this is going to be this way, I think. Yeah, that's the exact picture. That's the one. So you can see, like, it's day and night, like, after... I think, and I believe it's from psilocybin, that one,

and the brain activity and connectivity is crazy. I mean, you don't have to be... I think any 10-year-old kid can accept. explain like these two pictures well one there's a lot more lines than the other and you don't you don't it doesn't take it doesn't take much to know like okay well this is definitely doing something right yeah and it you know if you if we were just spitballing here like how much more thoughts do you think you're having in one are you having more in you know in the one with all the connections or are you having you know more thoughts with these connections you know it seems to me that

That's where the idea of synesthesia comes when you're starting to process visual information in Broca's area. You're starting to process sounds in the visual cortex. And like what comes of that? Like talk about imagination. Talk about reinventing the world in a way that is original. Like how can you have, how can you create a better environment unless you begin to have different types of thoughts? And in some ways, I think that's exactly what's happening. And maybe I can ask you this.

You've been all around the world. You've seen different cultures. You've played in different parts of the world. Is there something similar about the ideas of psychedelics and all the parts of the world that you've been to? Similar about psychedelics. I think that I've rarely heard people talk about negative effects. I mean, I've heard people say they've had negative effects,

but the similarity I think is just definitely in the spirituality. I think that's really the big similarity, right? Like people don't know what inside of them was awoken, but it awoke something to them. It gave them a new spark. I think that's kind of the similarity I've seen, like, across the, like everybody I spoke to globally who's indulged or participated or taken psychedelics or seen even people, even people who haven't taken psychedelics,

and they've witnessed people taking it. they've seen the drastic change in their lives. So I think that's a big thing there. Yeah, I think that, you know, it definitely has an ability to reach across borders and it has an ability to reach across cultures and an ability to reach across, you know, different sort of small-mindedness that people can hang on to and develops an environment where people can grow and think and be free from a lot of constraints. that's a big part of it is just the constraints that most people are under. When we look at our

lifestyle today, you know, you wake up at five, you make breakfast for your kids or you maybe people work out and they go to work and then they come, you know, by the time they get home, some people are so burned out that, you know, they don't have time to spend with their family. And, you know, what kind of a life is that? I think that the beginning to experiment with psychedelics is the beginning of you starting your own dream, figuring out, hey, what do I want to be? What do I want to do what am I about but yeah real value yeah I'm having an absolute yes yeah please revaluing what's important to you you know and like what do you really want of a life do you want to work at like because a perfect example is like me like you know like I'm here I I I could get a

traditional kind of job and like make my mom happy get all the bills paid on time and everything but I'm just driven to I want to live my own dream I don't want to live somebody else's dream I think that's something that psychedelics kind of helped me realize. I don't, I don't, I think everybody wants to live their own dream. Don't get me wrong. Sure. But I think it's one thing to say it, and then another thing to manifest it and, like, take the necessary steps and, you know, willing to take the leap forward.

And I think that's what a lot of people kind of just have to do. And I think a good way for psychedelics for people, I think it'll be microdosing. For a lot of people who are not hip to it, not privy to it, I think don't definitely don't go with your buddy who's been taking it forever and take seven grams or 14 grams with him. Because you'll never want to do it again. And you might even induce psychosis, right? So I think just for anybody, I would say start small, start low and gradually go from there. Yeah, James Fateman wrote a great book called The Psychedelic Explorer's Guide.

I'll put it in the show notes because people can go and he actually did a really good survey from that book where, you read the book and it just told you about micro dosing and then it offered you a website where you could go and plug in, hey, I'm taking an eighth of a gram every third day. Here's what I found about it. Or some people are taking smaller doses. Some people are taking a little bit bigger doses. Some do it every day. But he broke it down onto his website and you can we see like this character arc of people's lives changing.

And I think it's a great way for people who are curious to start. You know, maybe start by reading something. Maybe start by looking at what you want in your life or keeping a journal. But once you begin microdosing, I think the lights begin to kind of pop on for you. And you start to see a little bit, maybe a filter gets moved across your eyes and things become a little bit more clear. So I would agree that microdosing is a great way to begin your journey if it's something that you are curious about. And maybe clear, neither Anthony nor I are advocating people to go out and do any sort of psychedelics or something like that. But if you want to do it and you want to investigate it, there's a right way to do it and a wrong way to do it.

The wrong way is to jump in and, you know, hit up the strip club with seven grams and just tear it up. Like, you definitely don't want to do that. You know, there's no shame in grabbing a book and going online and doing some research and figuring out what's right for you. Treat it like swimming. If you can't swim, you're not going to want to jump into the ocean. That's a great enough. Yeah. You don't want to go maybe into the kitty pool and go from there, you know, where you're like knee-harm.

Hi. And to take it from there, I don't think that, and I think that's what a lot of people do, right? They just want, I just want to find the shortcut and I just want to get clarity on everything. I hear all this hype in the media. So right away, like, I don't have time for microdosing. I just want the ego death. Yeah. So that's, I think, and that's like, it's just, I think just educating people over time.

And that's kind of the big. the big kind of missing key thing with the psilocybin I think the data a lot of data is missing people need to be educated there's a lot of he say she say there's no real proof behind it or you know nobody nobody really knows so there's still a lot to go I think we're still in the infancy stage and it's it's hard to go and tell people do this or do that or what to do and so yeah that's why that's why like I said for us we just focused on what we know and that's like making comp like from the cannabis we just transfer over making compounds pure compounds that people can dose accurately ethically and it's like there's just full level of transparency so that's what

we kind of wanted to bring to the industry and you know grow with the industry and create a new standard I think I don't see why you should microdose and not know the tryptamine content You know, like, okay, you're taking 0.1 of this golden teacher, triptamine content is 0.7 or 0.8%. It's really, it seems pretty simple to me. Or you're microdosing penis envy, and that one is 1.3%, and you're taking 0.1, or you're taking less than 0.1,

because you want your dose to be the same as what you're taking with the golden teacher. Yeah. I can't underscore that enough, Anthony. And I'm so stoked to talk to you and Dr. V. Like, you know, in the world of microdosing, it's probably the majority of guys like me that are like, okay, I'm going to take a quarter of this cap. What about this cap and this stem? The stem probably has a lot less than this cap over here. But just because it's the same size, it doesn't mean it's the same triptomy content.

I can be getting double the dose in this thing over here. So how do you manage what you don't measure? Like you have, you should really have to work with the ideas that Anthony and Dr. V are beginning to standardize like that. like why wouldn't it be the similar amount? Like how else can you manage what you don't measure? Yeah. And the other thing too is like, I think it's, is it niacine? There's like a filler that they put in a lot of the, the microdosing.

So if you take too much of the niacine, maybe not for me, but if you have a little less melan in your skin, you'll turn bloodshot red. Like I've seen people. Totally did. And they just start turning red. Like they have an allergic reaction and overdose to it. So it's even that.

Like why are they, why can't it be complimented, like your microdose be complimented with other mushrooms? ground up and they're like lions may eat and these kind of mushrooms as well or just something that's not going to be toxic to you like you know like why does it have to be like why are there always these shortcuts even in cannabis like to viz point earlier with the vaporizers a lot of people are taking the vapes and they're cutting it with these different oils and stuff giving kids popcorn lungs and different flavorings and all these things I think that's that's the biggest thing there's no it's not even it's just capitalism there's no level there's no efficacy there's no efficacy

and what you're doing, your only thing is profits, right? So if your only thing is profits right away, then you shouldn't be maybe making psilocybin for people. You shouldn't open up a dispensary or anything like that, selling psilocybin or growing psilocybin or producing it for anybody. If your only aspiration is profits, don't get me wrong. We're all in business to make money, but, you know, I'm putting people before profits here.

Like, I'm trying to just usher in a new error, right? Where people are like, okay, like, when they go to, buy your micro dose from somebody, they're going to be, okay, well, you know, they're more educated. What's the triptamine content of what's in there? And if you can't tell that person, that consumer, then I would hope they would go and buy from another guy or somebody who can actually tell them what's in there. Or just some level of standardization. There's just, it just seems a little bit too wild, wild west.

And I think that's a, that could, that can have a lot of negative effects on the industry in this kind of intimacy stage, right? Like if the right politician's kid goes out and takes psilocybin and gets wrecked, it'll never be legal in one country or a jurisdiction or a state or a province or somewhere, right? It just takes one bad apple to ruin it for everybody. Right. Yeah, hopefully we find that kid and give him a good apple because that could change it in that particular way too.

You know, I, you know what? As you were talking about doses, what, have you guys figured out at, at in Theogen biotech? Like, what is a dose? Is it standard dose? I mean, have you guys figured out

the dosing regimen? Is it, you know, does it come into liquid? I know you guys have an NDA, you can't talk about it, but, you know, is it a liquid in a drop?

So we have liquid. We have liquid forms of psilocybin and psilocene that we've isolated. We've also, we've also just have like the regular dried mushrooms. We, once we harvest them, we either freeze dry them right away. or we'll put them in a vacuum of it and dry them.

So they're like not brown and like black, like traditional mushrooms you get. It's like perfect white, looks clean and consistent, the powder that you, that creates and how the mushrooms dry and form. As well as the, what other forms that we have it in?

We have full fruit body. We have a liquid kind of a driplet that we've discovered. We have the, that would be the concentrate. And yeah, that's it. Really, those are the two traditional ways. and then as well as producing it in the in the bioreactor but that's uh that's more about

just growing in a sterile environment than everything it's not really per se about the extraction qualities or extraction techniques it's just sterile environment but yeah so we have the concentrates in in driplets in droplets and uh powdered and grounded up mushrooms right now and for the for the bioreactor to produce psilocybin Yeah, it's just a matter of the mycelium we bred and the hormones and enzymes that we feed it in the bioreactor itself. I'm not sure if you got a chance to look at the video. It's just a two-minute video, but you can see the mycelium growing in there, and you can see the enzymes and stuff. We feed it.

And, yeah, that's kind of our unique, I think, advantage right now. Yeah. As well as our testing capabilities, because we develop new testing capabilities with HPL sea machines and QNMR machines to test psilocybin as well as an at-home kit that you can test with but it's only up to 2% so that's something we're looking to bring to market so what we're looking to really bring to market right away globally outside of jamaica would be our test kits and it's only up to 2% psilocybin and spores if we can right now as far as i see i'm looking at all these all these mushroom banks they're selling spores and liquid culture

across international borders and everywhere. So I think it's a market that we can enter as well. And sell our spores with the triptamine content. So you know what you're getting when you purchase it. And then the spores are a little bit different than the liquid culture. Liquid culture is harder to produce, but more consistent. Whereas the spores will, I guess after each flush, it'll be kind of less and less and less potent.

So that's something we'd have to kind of run. maybe like four flushes and be like, okay, after four flush, this will be your trip to bean content. Whereas the liquid culture, that'll stay consistent for every, every run you do. Yeah, that's a great way to look at it because I think spores in the United States are legal. It's only the fruiting body that is illegal, which it's interesting to think about. Most places, that's what's legal.

Like, you can go any city right now, I'm sure, in Canada or the States, just type in mushrooms, mushrooms, Colorado, or Mushrooms, Denver. and there'll be a website, I'm sure. And they're selling spores. They're selling grow home kits. They're selling liquid culture. And some of them might even be selling like DMT vapes and dried mushrooms as well. Like, so it's the Wild Wild West out there, you know.

So we're hoping to just bring a, bring a, just a level of clarity for people. So it's not so, it's not so just up in the air, what you're taking. Like, I don't, I don't know anybody who, like, to take that, like, do things like that. You know, you want to know what you're ingesting for the most part. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's revolutionary. The ability to understand the triptamine content in there.

Like that's bringing clarity and bringing transparency to everybody around it. You know, whether you're the person taking it, whether the person administering it. And in some ways, it's making it a lot safer. You know, if you know exactly what you're administering, then I think that you're you're being responsible and you're being looking out for everybody involved i'm just i'm stoked for you guys man thanks for doing it it's a cool no i i appreciate it and uh yeah no it's just honestly it was just a gap we saw that was missing i was like i was asking people i was like listen like i take you take one set of i took five grams here and five grams there this one's a dud

and this one i was on the moon so like yeah there's obviously something there wrong and i think that's kind of how it started. And then as we started breeding everything, it was just like how do we separate ourselves from the competition, right? Like even if we can say, maybe we can't tell you that it has 1% trptamine, but if we can tell you that it has 0.7 to 1%, like that range, that's even better than what's out there.

There's not even a, most people are just going to give you a, throw a number at you and be like, yeah, man, that's it. Yeah. So I think I think it's, sorry, go ahead. Yeah, and if, you know, like you had brought up, you know, if someone's buying, let's say you buy it from a certain guy and one month you get, you know, albino penis envies here. And, okay, it's about, I should take about three grams of this. And then, you know, next week you get another one.

But that comes from another flush. It could be a complete different, even though it's the same sort of, it's the same. It's different, man. And the content has gone way down. That's a great point. Yeah, yeah. So you'll need more or you're going to need, like, yeah. So, yeah, it's just hard to, it's hard to, I think it's just education.

People don't know about it, I think they're not privy to it. They're not hip to it. So I think just like with cannabis, more and more people know, you'll get more and more people asking more people asking, oh, is this an indica or a hybrid? And then, you know, like, you'll get people going to mushroom dispensaries and go, like, how much psilicine is in this? Because, you know, like, I want to, I want the onset to be in 15 minutes or 20 minutes versus an hour.

Yeah. You know, so I think it's just a matter of education. educating people, letting them. I don't even think most people know, like, how many compounds are in mushrooms or know, like, what psilocene is versus psilocybin. And, like, you know, just little things like that. They just know, I just want to get ripped. Yeah.

Yeah, it's a great point. It's a great point. Anthony, as we're getting close to land in the plane here, man, have we, have we, have we, is there anything else that we should cover that we haven't covered? Uh, no, I mean, we've been talking a lot about a bunch of different things. I don't know. I mean, we're like in Theogen Biotech, we're here in Jamaica. We're a Canadian company subsidiary.

Canadian company with a Jamaican subsidiary where we do our operations. And we're wide open for collaborations, investments and partnerships. And, you know, we're looking to collaborate and keep growing and make a difference. You know, I think that's the biggest thing. Like, for me, you may not know, but like my big thing for my campaign, cannabis company was, you know, people before profits. And I wanted to be like the, you're American. So like the Dunkin' Donuts.

Like I wanted to have that national, national approach. Like, you know, like, I think when you think, when you're in American, you think, if you're in Canada and you think, I want coffee, you're going to Tim Hortons. If you're in America and you want coffee, you're thinking Dunkin' Donuts, if you're in Jamaica and you ask for a cold beer, they're going to bring you a red stripe. So, like, I want that to be the same principle, like, for my cannabis company. and for my psilocybin company. Like, you know, when a, when a person wants a spliff or a joint,

they're going to look for my cannabis company, which is called Herbs, which stands for health, education, and research of botanical sciences. And for the mushroom side of it, we decided to go with the name. Theogen biotech is like our kind of R&D kind of name. as far as commercializing and taking the market and what we're going to be selling microdosing and full doses

to consumers in Jamaica is that company we're going to call it positive mojo. So like plus sign mojo. Yeah. That's it. And so and then our slogan is it's unique. V is actually the one who found it. So Junju is it's mold. It's like a colloquial

term in Jamaica for mold. So like our slogan is going to be Junju equals positive mojo. So, and that's it. And, yeah, my... I love it. Yeah, yeah, it's a... V, he was the one who looked it up.

He's like, because, like I was saying before, he went to St. Vincent, it was my mom's from there. And they call mushrooms... Because mushrooms in general in the Caribbean have a negative condensation. They don't eat them, per se, like culturally. Like I said, Junju is, like, the word for mushrooms,

and it's mold. That's what it means, mildew. In my mom's country, they call them jumbium, which Jumbi is a ghost and an umbrella you know. So it's like they have negative condensations, right? Like it's mold, it's a ghost. It's like people don't want to take mushrooms because of the effects that it has on people, right? They know about it.

And so I think that there's a little bit of a cultural barrier there for us. But I think it's just, again, just educating people, getting them hip to it. And Jamaica is a pretty trendy place. They follow trends and follow what's happening in the outside world. There's a Starbucks with a lineup out the door every day, which blows my mind that people are spending $7 to $8 on coffee when, you know, the minimum wage in Jamaica is maybe like 80 bucks a week, 100 bucks a week, US, and you're willing to spend six, seven, eight bucks and up on a coffee.

But it happens. And I think they follow the trends of the world, right? Like a lot of people, even a lot of questions I've been asked about Jamaica is like the cannabis like aren't you scared of the guys selling weed on the street or this guy but most jamaicans they want to do what they see happening in the u.s and abroad they see people abroad going to dispensaries we want to go to dispensaries too like we don't want to buy it from the rum bar the little rostam out on the corner we want to go into dispensary have that full experience and do what we see people doing abroad so i think that um they'll they'll come to it

and become hip to it and i think it's uh focusing on the the kind of the generation that I think is most affected by mental health and mental illness or kind of everybody who's on social media. So the young kids, right? Like anywhere from university kids all the way to like, let's say like

18, 19, or to like 35 is kind of where we're looking to kind of change their minds in Jamaica and get them hipped and turned on to it. I think anybody who's maybe 50 and over, they're not going to be taking mushrooms. But maybe, maybe, of

Jamaican descent, don't get me wrong. I think people in North America are more educated, hip privy to it, but it's slowly coming. And yeah, man, I look forward to everything that's to come. And yeah, I don't know. I think I said a lot. I've been talking a lot. But yeah. Yeah, that's awesome.

It's good. I think you have an opportunity to take Jamaica from a place that maybe has been following trends to become a trendsetter. You know, and I love the idea of people first. It's something that I think runs. deep through the psychedelic community. I think it's something that's positive. And I think talking to you and Dr. V today comes through in the words you guys are saying,

the ideas that you have. I think you're building a better community using Enthiogens. And I'm stoked to talk you. I'm stoked that people are out there like you and Dr. V doing these things. Bringing awareness and bringing transparency to the tryptamine content is, it's revolutionary, man. And I hope everybody that watches this, or listens to this podcast is able to reach out and ask questions or can go to you guys

and collaborate or talk to you because you guys are doing good stuff. Thanks, man. I appreciate that. And yeah, anybody who wants to reach out, feel free. Well, general questions, collaborations were wide open. And I think I look forward to what we're going to be able to do in Jamaica. It's revolutionary. It's going to be changing it from a, I think right now I would say like it's medical tourism

around the retreats and stuff like that to being just full-on, medical like you know like we're respected in a medical aspect for producing psilocybin of said quality with said standards and you know certain things and and i don't see what it can happen there's already been canadian companies who exported silozybin from jamaica to canada for their studies or whatever they're trying to do so it's not like we're trying to reinvent the wheel here it's doable obtainable and uh yeah it's just a matter of time and the right the right people in part partners in place and I think we can do tremendously great things. Yeah, perfect.

Okay, well, before I let you go, one more time, where can people find you and you got any gigs coming up? No gigs coming up, but you can find me, you can find us in Theogenbiotech.com. You can find me on LinkedIn, Anthony Bailey. I'm going to look a little different. I have my long dreads, but I recently cut them. And you can find V online. I'm sure if you search just Anthony Bailey and Theogen, you'll see you.

We've got some articles out there. We've got videos on YouTube. We're trying to make everything that we're doing pretty public. Even around the studies we want to conduct, like the next one we're looking to do is a microdosing and all-call study. Like we want to record these people. We want to put it on YouTube. We want to make it viral.

You know, like I want to make people know what's going on, see what's going on. And because we can, like we have the ability to do it because of the jurisdiction we're working and operating out of it. We don't have to hide behind what we're doing. We don't need any government body to give us permission. We don't need anything. So, yeah, I'm excited for the future. Yeah, you should be.

Okay, ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for participating. Thanks for taking some time to listen to us. Especially thank you to Anthony and Dr. V for them and their heart work today. This podcast is an absolute blast. I had a great time talking to you guys. And that's all we got for today, ladies and gentlemen.