TrueLife - Beyond the Hero’s Journey: Dr. Susie Ross Reveals the Hidden Half of Transformation (Figure 8 Model)

Episode Date: December 12, 2025

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USThe Lila Code: https://orcid.org/0009-0008-4612-3942🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/Join host George on the True Life Podcast for an enlightening holiday season episode featuring Dr. Susie Ross, founder of Susie Ross & Associates and author of The Map to Wholeness.In this profound conversation, Dr. Ross unveils her groundbreaking Figure Eight Model of Transformation—a research-backed framework developed through her doctoral work that maps the full cycle of deep human change. Going beyond Joseph Campbell’s Hero’s Journey, she reveals the often-overlooked “hidden half” of transformation: the private, integrative phases that turn pain into purpose, breakdown into breakthrough, and fragmentation into wholeness.From a transcendent mountain experience that shaped her life’s work, to the nine phases of integration (including displacement, grief, dismemberment, surrender, birth, abundance, and more), Dr. Ross provides a clear, evidence-based map for navigating life’s catalysts—whether peak experiences or traumas.Discover why true transformation requires both the outward heroic quest and the inward journey of dissolution and rebirth, and how completing the Figure Eight leads to inner harmony, abundance, and bringing “light into matter.”Perfect for anyone seeking meaning amid change. Visit suzieross.net (coupon available for listeners) for one-on-one sessions, integration circles starting in January, and more. Book: The Map to Wholeness. One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark. fumbling, furious through ruins maze, lights my war cry, born from the blaze.

The poem is Angels with Rifles, The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Serafini. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the True Life podcast in this beautiful holiday season. I hope the sun is shining, hope the birds are singing, hope the wind is at your back. I have with me today, Dr. Susie Ross. In a world obsessed with growth, few understand transformation, not as a slogan, but as a sacred science. Dr. Susie Ross has spent over two decades decoding the invisible architecture of change. mapping the spiral of human evolution that turns pain into purpose and loss into light.

As the founder of Susie Ross and Associates, she helps leaders, coaches, and companies harness transformation, not as chaos, but as curriculum, teaching them to read the signals of the soul through her evidence-based figure-8 model of transformation, a framework born from her doctoral research and proven to reveal the predictable phases of deep human metamorphosis. Her transformation scale gives practitioners a way to see what was once intangible, a living instrument that measures where someone stands on their journey from fragmentation to wholeness, from breakdown to breakthrough. She is the author of The Map to Wholeness,

a guide for those brave enough to walk the terrain of their own becoming, and a global voice for transformation science, bringing insight, structure, and grace to the wild, unpredictable dance of human growth. Dr. Susie Ross, thank you so much. much for being here today. How are you? So happy to be here with you, George. I've been listening to you for so long and just your incredible laugh. And it just makes me laugh every time I hear you laugh.

And also just hearing the incredible folks that you have on this, your podcast has just been an awesome part of my life and I'm grateful for you and the insights that you're bringing everyone. And I feel I'm pinching myself to spend some time with you. Well, thank you for the kind words. I appreciate it. It's been much like you. It's been a labor of love, like a lifetime of work.

And it's so awesome to get to share it with cool people. And when you talk about getting to hear insights from amazing people, like today you're that amazing person. Like you have been working on this thing for quite some time. And it's really, I know when I first read it, when I first reached out to you and I started reading it, I was blown away because I had never seen a model like this before. And it's really started to make a lot of sense to me in my life and the people that I'm talking to. So I'm excited to talk about it today.

Me too. It's my favorite subject, you know. It's a big one, especially right now, the idea of transformation. How did this come about? Is this something that like you have noticed these transformations in your life or did it come from a lifelong of struggle or tell me about how you, how you come to develop this model? Oh, boy. I would say kind of going first with a little bit what you were just mentioning, oh, you know, the Susie part of it, you know, the personal experience from which everything is born. And, you know, my first experience was with transformation was when I was like maybe 21, 22 years old. And I just was a lucky fool. really uh i was leading backpacking trips for kids in the colorado mountains i was born and raised in wisconsin but i i really love the mountains and so i went and i love nature and so i

was leading backpacking trips for a summer and at the end of the summer uh i had this very powerful transcendental experience uh just sheer luck or circumstance or serendipity or synchronicity, whatever you want to call it. And we were hiking through the mountains. I was on the Breckenridge range, and I could see in both directions. I could see 360, where it was like walking along this spine of the mountains.

And I was at the end of the lineup of the backpacking group and looking around and enjoying myself. And then I started leaving my body. and I ended up going everywhere in the universe. I had no plant in me. I'd know nothing. I just was walking along. And I have vivid memories still of what it was like to be everywhere in the universe.

A tree, a molecule of grass, stars, being in distant galaxies all at the same time. and that was normal. And I also became very evident that every molecule of the universe contains infinite knowledge, overwhelming love and a resounding grounded power and just kept going

for about a half an hour. I was out of my body and as I looked on Google Maps, and to see the trace where I walked. And when I was coming down the mountain, started coming into my body. And when I had been out of my body, I didn't, I don't remember seeing any of it. And when I was coming down the mountain,

coming into my body, and I could see through my own eyes, and I could see this huge weather system coming towards me, big dark clouds and had been raining for a week and we're really cold and wet and I thought oh my gosh I did not want it to rain and and then I was still kind of half in and half out and I thought well geez it was like a nanosecond it wasn't like a actual thought but it occurred to me why don't I just move the clouds because I am the clouds and so I did it just was all all a nanosecond. It wasn't as calculated or like I just said it.

And then the clouds were all around us, but not over us. They moved around us. And when I, and then there were rainbows all around us because it was raining all around us, but not on us. And when I saw that happen, that had just lost it because I was in my body enough to know what was going on. And it was like an affirmation that what was happening really was real. And it just wept as I walked down the mountain. And the only thing that could help me was singing Amazing Grace, which was not something that, you know,

I didn't, Amazing Grace was not a song I sang all the time, or even thought about. But in that moment, that's just what happened. Just started seeing that song to myself, just quietly. And kind of to soothe myself because it was so powerfully overwhelming to be in the human body and to basically be in the face of God, what it was. and um yeah and so as i went down the mountains i came more in my body and i never shared it with

anyone because it was just too much and i didn't share it for years um i shared it just it's not the kind of story you just tell anybody um but now it's many many decades later and now it's in the forward of my book. So now I'm sharing it widely. But quite honestly, it's a little bit vulnerable to share it. But I think it's also important to share it, because it is grace to receive an experience like that. And I think it's important for me to share it

in the right situation to. let people know these things really happen and you know I'm talking to a group of people now who know well about transcendental experiences and how deeply moving they are inside of us forever how they reverberate through ourselves and inform our every breath whether we're remembering it in that very moment or not doesn't even matter. You know, these kinds of experiences are game changers. And so, so I think it's important for me to start with that story because it informs my every breath. And of course, it informs my research and informs my life purpose and and so and it had nothing to do with you know anything

I earned it was just grace and so so I think there's some responsibility with with receiving race being able to have the courage to share it so anyway so there sir you're there there's my I wasn't actually anticipating on sharing it but I think it's important for the reasons I mentioned so that's my long response to that which is the undergritting of the figure eight and my research probably the more important really than the other stuff because the figure aid in my research you know that's all like you know the outcomes in this reality in these three dimensions um but now you know the rest of the story it's a beautiful story thank you for sharing it it sounds like divine inspiration

and there's all this language we can use around it and i know because i've had some I've been fortunate enough to sit with some amazing grace in my life. But it's difficult to integrate that. And it sounds from like your story, you know, you didn't want to share it with people. Yet it was something that fundamentally transformed the way you work in this world, your relationship with the world. And I'd imagine all the relationships around you. So I can see how all of a sudden this idea of integration,

was just born inside of you. Like, what do I do with this? What do I do? How do I share this? How do I tell people this? Are other people having this experience? What do we go from here? Yeah, yeah, for real.

That was a beautiful lead in. Yeah. Yes, you're right. Because, you know, that happened in the early 90s, to be 1991, I think, if one happened. It might have been, yeah, I think it was 1990. when it happened. And so, you know, you're exactly right in my psyche. Like, what do I do with this? And honestly, I didn't think about it very much. This one about my life. But I started my

PhD in 2002, so about 11 years later. And then when you start your PhD, the big question is your big question. What are you, what question am I going to have that's going to inform the rest of life what question is big enough and important enough to me that it one is not easily answerable to it fills some sort of gap in knowledge where nobody knows this so go after it it's it's got to be big enough it's going to take a couple years answer it and then and then it should inform the rest of my life and my work what the heck is that going to be and I was leading transformative travel as a professor to Costa Rica in Peru,

leading college students, and I designed these transformative travel experience. The purpose of the travel was intentional transformation. And then I was sitting, I live in Northern California. And at the time, I owned a house in the Redwoods. And it was so cool. My front yard was a redwood circle. So I had a deck.

And then there was this about 20 feet in diameter, this circle of trees that they were all about, about like a foot and a half, two feet in diameter. And then, but then the circle itself is about 20 feet. So literally come across my deck and then they enter into this circle of trees that go straight up, about 60, 70 feet.

And that was my front yard. It was so amazing. It was like having a cathedral in my front yard. And I went and sat in my circle. And I was going to do fasting. I was going to do a ceremony to receive my question from my doctoral research. And so I was fasting, it's doing very

ceremony to like get myself ready to receive my question because i wanted my question to not be of me i wanted my question to come from something bigger oh so emotional for me always and uh a couple days earlier i had been sitting in the circle and i had read an obituary of elizabeth kubler ross and many of you probably know of Elizabeth Kubler Ross she and I just happened to have the same last name but when I read her obituary it said something along the lines of she gave the world just a few words just a few words and in those words was infinite complexity so it was the simple elegance of her work her life work and it just made me stop that is so exquisite it just had such a deep impression on me out it's like i knew that's what i wanted And so when I sat down in ceremony in my circle to receive, and I was planning on like days of fasting, you know, it was so funny because I'm like already, you know, like I'm a really tough person. I have a lot of stamina and discipline. I'm like, yeah, a couple days. I know. I know. I'll be in this altered state, receive this question.

So I'm like on day one, like the morning of day one. I was only a couple hours into it, you know? And I'm like meditating. And then it came to me. It was like, how do we integrate the life-changing experience of this transformative travel? intentional travel designed to create the conditions for transformation to occur that I designed and led how do we integrate it when we come home and I've been reading the literature right by this time I've been reading tons of literature in lots of different disciplines like

well over a dozen disciplines studying transformation because my PhD is in transformation from the California Institute of Integral Studies. And so I've been studying transformation and all this stuff. And I was like, how do you integrate life changing experience? And I'm like, oh my God, that's it. That's the question. And then I'm like, wait a minute. That can't be the question.

Like, I'm only a couple hours into it. Like, I'm not even altered, you know? I'm like, what are you talking about? No way. This can't be it. I'm like, I'm going to keep fasting, you know, this can't be it, can't be that easy. You must make it harder. Yeah, yeah, we must make it harder.

So I was like, so I kept, you know, going and by the afternoon, I was like, that's the freaking question. I'm like, it came. It just came. This is the question. And so it was just, it was so funny because I'm just used to, you know, my culture of it's got to be tough, it's got to be hard, all this stuff. And I was like, yeah, that's the question.

So I was like, okay, maybe I'll have something to eat. Right. So I did. And that was the question. And so, yeah, so then I embarked on the research with a team of co-researchers implementing a pretty radical research methodology called cooperative inquiry. Thank goodness because I purposely chose California Institute of Integral Studies and based on San Francisco, California,

because it was the first accredited higher education doctoral degree in the world that was founded on the notion of, of curricula that combines Western and Eastern wave of knowing, Western and Eastern perspectives, Western and Eastern worldviews. Because the premise is the founders of CIS was where Alan Watts, and if you might know Alan Watts, W-A-T-T-S, and also Dr. Charitas, Dr. Haridas Chowardas Chowdh Chaudhry from India and Alan Watts from the United States and Haridas Chaudhry came together

with this premise of we have got, if we're going to move things forward, if higher education, its purpose is to answer the questions that create solutions for the future that are sustainable. And if we're truly going to be creating new knowledge, it cannot be from a West perspective only, and it can't be from an Eastern perspective only. We need to have higher education informed by both ends of the spectrum. And so that's what was born, was this higher education dedicated to holistic body, mind, spirit education that does not solely rely upon the mind. but also the heart, the body, and the spirit, that spirituality is not excommunicated from the classroom.

And so, because I swore to myself, I would never, ever get a PhD after doing an master's thesis. I was like, this is crazy. But I, but when I, as another whole story, but anyway, I was super grateful. Maybe we could back up just for a second and explain to people what cooperative inquiry is. Yeah, so cooperative inquiry, cooperative inquiry is a qualitative research method, and that means that the purpose of this method is to understand experience and to dive deeply into experience and to be able to analyze experience collectively, and understand its underlying patterns.

And what is terrifically unique about cooperative inquiry, you can see by the use of the term, is that you're doing it together. So that most, a lot of knowledge that is created, knowledge is created, it's always funneled through one primary, primary researcher and that primary researcher is the funnel through which all of the information is interpreted and therefore the knowledge that is produced is going to always be biased to the interpreter even in the most numerical research that is so objective is still biased because it is funneled through the worldview and the limitations and the strengths of that researcher.

When you conduct cooperative inquiry, you widen the interpretation to the entire group. So the entire group of co-researchers, then, you multiply the analysis by the number of people. that are analyzing the data. So then the world views through which all the data is analyzed is exponential. You're talking about looking at a kaleidoscope rather than a window. And so cooperative inquiry literally in this circumstance was my student alumni who had been in the transformative travel experiences and those who wanted to participate in this research did and it ended up being seven of us I think it was seven or eight including me and that's a

typical size between six and nine people is the typical size group and it's extremely democratic so what happens is the researcher it's a very very very feminine research methodology. Because one, you're doing it in a group. Two, you sit in a circle. Three, it involves body, mind, spirit. Four, it involves storytelling. Five, it, this is the best part of all. The researcher relinquishes all control. And so I relinquish all the control to the group including the research question itself. So I studied all the literature, right, to come up with the possible question.

And then I did the ceremony, which I didn't tell people. And then I offered the research question to the group, and then they collect, we collectively decide, do we want this question? Do we want to edit the question? Or do we want to throw it all out and then have a different question? And so the group did decide to keep the question I presented to them. And then we worked together for, interestingly, it took 13 months, which is a little bit long.

Usually a cooperative inquiry can be weeks to a couple of some months, but 13 months of analysis was quite a lot. So that gives like a little bit of an overview of the method. But the last thing I will say about the method, I have a research paper that I was invited to write about this methodology to really invite researchers to use this methodology because it's so unique and powerful because it's designed to produce knowledge that doesn't exist. and it really is beautifully designed for that. And that's what I was going after. And the very last thing is that the paper that I wrote really helps to highlight how this methodology is transformative research. Because the process itself transforms the researchers. And actually I have a longitudinal study about this methodology that I haven't published yet,

but the paper's done, but I haven't submitted it yet. And that's the one where I outline the longitudinal research about how this really highlights how it transforms the researchers in the process, which is pretty cool. All right. So that's that. It's a beautiful way to do it. And I know you and I have had some previous conversations, And it was the first time I had ever heard of cooperative inquiry. And it blew me a way to think about how transformational it is. And it really helped me begin to see the world in a different way.

You're right. So much of the work that comes out. And it's interesting because you had mentioned earlier when you came up with the question, you were sitting in this cathedral of trees. And you're like, it has to be harder than this. It has to be harder than this. And when it's just the individual, it is harder. We make it so much more difficult.

But I want to jump into the idea of now that we understand the process a little bit, this is a whole new model. Like the figure eight model is something I have never seen before. You know, I've definitely read lots of Joseph Campbell, and I've read The Return Home and meeting the Threshold Guardians. And, you know, so many of us are familiar with this hero's journey model, but the model that you have is radically different. And I can bring up a model here. so this isn't you can see. So here we go. And then we get rid of this banner right here.

Okay, so there we go. Maybe you could walk people through what this figure eight model is. I know this took quite some time. So just go ahead and start wherever, wherever you feel comfortable. Okay. So the research produced this. And this is what happened about 12 months into it.

And we're all sitting in Kayla's living room floor. And we'd already had like an immersive retreat. And when we got back from the retreat, we laid down all this big, huge paper on the floor. And we were working over all the data. and and what what the research found is that integration is possible because one of the things we had to entertain is that maybe integration is not possible and you have a really huge trauma or you have a really major transcendental experience like what I what I had and think wow is this even possible to integrate this I mean maybe it's not possible for However, we did find, indeed, it's possible to transform, I mean to integrate. Absolutely, hands down.

And that not only is it possible, but there were very distinct phases to that integration process. And what we found was what you can see here is this lower circle. So the starting point is in the middle of that eight right there. That's when you get back from your journey. You come home. And so here you are in the middle of that figure eight. You've just come home. And then what we found is there were nine phases to integrate the life-changing experience.

And so those are what those nine phases are what you see in that lower part of that figure eight. That's the integrative cycle. So we're sitting there and we're looking at that. We have the paper all over the floor. And then it dawned on us. We're like, huh, right when we got home, we just got home from the hero's journey. We got home from the transformative travel. We just came back from Costa Rica and Peru, and then everything is integration.

We're like, hmm, right there in the center of that figure eight. is the hero's journey that we went on we're not including that we need to include that because that was really part of it like first we went on the hero's journey then we got home and then we went through these nine phases and so then we're like huh and so then on the piece of paper and a big piece of paper we're like we put the hero's journey where it belongs and then we put the integration where it belongs they're interconnected they definitely aren't separate and when i saw the figure eight it's just i saw that figure eight on that piece of paper and like time stood still i just was like Holy crap. I was like, that's it. This is the rest of my life right here. Was that figure eight.

I didn't say anything. I don't think I said anything, but I knew. I was like, oh my God, I'm going to have to write a freaking book. Because I studied, by this time, I've studied more than 15 disciplines of literature, and I know there's nothing in the literature that shows this information. I was like, this is This information is going to help people go through the very difficult parts of transformation. It's going to make it easier. It's going to make it visible. It's going to make it like I'm not going crazy. This, I'm okay.

And it's like a map to the process that's invisible. And I was like, oh, my Lord, because at this point I'm pretty tired, right? It's getting towards the end of my doctoral work. And I'm like, yeah, I'm almost done. You know, woo-hoo, I can have a life again. And I was like, oh, my Lord, I don't know how to write a book. You know, all that's going through my head in nano-seconds. But anyways, all to say, that's when the figure eight was born in that moment.

Because the other thing that I knew was, and we talked about, is that the figure eight, what it you know it's meta message is that we weren't planning on discovering was that if you don't integrate which stanisov gruff said many times and substantiated through his many years of research is that if you don't integrate you don't transform and i was like holy cow the figure eight is the image and the process of a complete transformation. And that if we only are following the hero's journey, we only have half the story. We only have half the map. And no wonder there's all sorts of people all over the earth who aren't transforming

Because we only have the formula for half and for the last hundred years with anthropology, we only have half because all of anthropology, the formula of transformation, passed down through the generations and through all the elders and all the circles and all the initiation and all the rites of passage in the upper half of that eight. You know, you go out on your vision quest, you get the call to the quest, you get identified to go on the quest you leave you go home go go out cry for a vision receive the vision and then come home and you tell the story in circle to the elders in the community what you came to know and that is the formula of transformation that we have for now more than

a hundred years but the thing is is that through the anthropological lens and through metallurgical lens that's not there's only half there's the hidden half that was there all along but the thing about the lower half of the figure eight is that it's private it's quiet it's dark it's very personal so capturing that was beneath the lens and um so um so um There was something I was going to say there. Joseph Campbell himself, I have a paper written about this, that provides an overlay of the figure eight through the lens of Joseph Campbell's legacy work.

And it talks about how the figure eight extends Joseph Campbell's monomyth, his hero journey, his incredible legacy, because it extends his work for, I think you're probably seeing how it extends it. And in that paper, I outline how Joseph Campbell himself did not know how to integrate. He knew the integration was necessary. He knew it was necessary for complete transfer. information, but he didn't know. He said there are four ways that he could think of to integrate. He said, the first way to integrate is you get overwhelmed and you just want to go back to the journey. And so you do. You return. You go back to whatever that exciting catalyst was. You go back to the transformative travel because the world is too much you want to go back to the bliss and so you abandon integration so that fails he said um i forget actually the the the four but three out of the four are failures and and so um so three out of the four ideas

result in failure to integrate he said the only way to integrate is to find a way to communicate what you learn during the catalytic journey, figure out a way to communicate it without warping it and in ways that other people can understand it. And what he said was, that's really, really, really hard to do. He said, it's it's very hard to do. I remember one of the ways he said is that you attempt to communicate what you learned but you warp the knowledge. He says and that's very common mistake because it's so hard to communicate what you received and so you have to warp it in order for people to understand it. But the problem is, when you warp the knowledge, the knowledge becomes,

it disappears. It's not actually the knowledge anymore. And so the figure eight then ends up becoming a extension and completion, really, of his work. Because now with the figure eight, we have in extraordinary detail how to integrate. So those nine phases are not only just identifying like the character of each phase, but there's a lot of very, a lot of detail in each of the phases. yeah it's so interesting some of the language we're using you know when i look at the bottom half of the eight like displacement grief and denial disorientation um surrender and healing especially dismemberment i'm often reminded of some of the egyptian like the egyptian book of

the dead or or when they go to the underworld and osiris is chopped up into all of these pieces you know And it's so, even there, I find the language warped. And maybe this bottom half of the aid is a language you can only begin to understand if you've had the experience. You know, in a lot of the schools that taught about the different mythologies, or you read some of the esoteric writings of the mystery schools, it's about the experience because the experience itself is almost ineffable. But once you've been through it, then, then you can understand it.

And when I look at where I am, where I believe that I am on that bottom half of the eight, like I understand all of those stages, not with language, but with a heartfelt sense of urgency. Like, oh my gosh, yes. You know, and it just calls to you on some level. And we also use the, you said, there was a word you use, like not the bottom half of the eight, but maybe the inverse or something like that. But it seems like the underworld to me. I'm like, that's where all the change seems to be.

to come and trying to translate that, trying to tell a therapist or tell your story about that dismemberment. It's not very well received by anybody. Maybe that's because of the language. I'm moving myself here. I'm in a cafe, as you probably can tell. Of course, ladies are right behind me and I'm like, I'm so sorry for the background music sound here. Perfect. How, how, how the sound is it a little better yeah it's perfect it's perfect everything's coming through clean and everything is as it should be awesome okay perfect so back to the language yes um one of the things that so i find so helpful about this is that there is now language you know so so here we have this lower half of the figure eight starts with displacement grief and denial

dismemberment and onward and so now and I can maybe lead you through it a little bit yeah so why don't I lead you through the lower half just briefly yeah so when we come back from our journey whatever the journey is this catalytic journey and the the catalytic journey um the top of the figure eight phase three that is the catalyst that is when we either have a trauma or we have a peak. So the catalyst can be either one, as many of us here know. And as we all, as you probably know too, you know, whether it's a trauma or a peak, like two sides of one coin.

And then we come, we start coming back from the journey. When we return home, that's the middle of the figure eight. center. And the very first part of integration is displacement. When we come home from the journey, and we have to resume normal life. We have to face our life. Whatever it is, our job, our emails, our bills, our family, or the people in our life, all the same stressors, the same sort of possibilities, the same sort of problems. We, we, we have to be. We, we, we, we, have to come back and face them. And the first two weeks-ish after return

is a little bit of a polarity of relief and upheaval. There's relief, like, OK, I've returned back to my daily life. There's some relief in that. And yet, there is. also this underlying upheaval that happens and I don't want to get too into the details but so for example it's usually happens on a survival level if you have a very large transformative catalyst like a big one then the upheaval in that first phase is something like getting in a

it could be losing a job it could be gaining a job it could be a medical thing might happen for you or a loved one uh it's all on a more survival level like for example when i had a um when i came back from one of my transformative travels within the first couple days of return i had a fender bender literally so you know my car was okay but it was a pain i had to you know literally get it fixed it was you know 600 bucks that i didn't want to spend time on and those kinds of things so that would be an example of an upheaval. It's like just happens and that happens upon return in about the first two weeks. After that is the grief and denial phase and that's longer. The displacement phase is just brief on the first home. Then grief and denial happens. What is that? Well, if you have a positive

peak experience, you're in denial that it's over. So we're like, oh, so I'm going to use transformative travel. Oh, I'm sad that I went, you know, we're back from Costa Rica. I want to go back. I love those people. I love the food, the Puerto Vita. It was so amazing. And I just want to go back and feel the magic again.

And so we escape into denial and reminisce. and about the experience and savor the experience and being a little denial that I'm back home again. And then there's moments where we're not in denial and we're just sad. Like, oh, I'm bummed that it's over. I want to go back and sad. And if there was a trauma for the catalyst,

we're in denial that it happened. Like, it didn't happen. There's no way that happened. There's no some part of us that's in denial that this trauma happened. To buffer our psyche from the pain of the trauma, we go into some denial for some of the time. And then when we're not in denial that it happened, then we're like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe that happened. This is really awful and sad. And there's distress about the trauma, understandably so.

So there's grief about that. Then there comes a point, that happens, depending on the size and your transformation, that could be many, many months of grief and denial. But there comes a point where you can't be in denial anymore. You're like, I'm actually returned. Okay? And then I'll speed it up a little bit. So there's a little bit of you drop into what's called disorientation. can't be in denial anymore. When you can't stretch out that denial anymore, you just start,

you have to face yourself. You have to face your life. You have to face yourself. And you go into a state of disorientation, which is who the foundation of it is, who am I? Who am I now that I've had this experience? And a lot of people don't necessarily know that's what's going on. But what people have more awareness of it during this phase, there's a tug of war in the, you, there's a tug of war inside. I want to make these changes in my life. Three steps forward, four steps forward. I'm going to eat better. I'm going to exercise. I'm going to get more sleep. I'm going to spend more time with my loved ones. Whatever the things, I'm going to take this action towards my goals and my professional life. And so there's this forward movement and then there's relapse.

and then forward movement and then relapse. And that's what goes on in disorientation. And it's really frustrating because we really, really want a better life, but the capacity for the better life has you doing this tug of war inside. And it's really frustrating and not very fun. But then what do you think that? Yeah. Let's stay there just for a minute.

Like, what do you think that is? Is that not being able to step into the role? Is that not having the opportunities to do it? Like, what is that moving forward and moving back? Is that becoming? Is that you trying to become a new person or see the world in a different way? Yes. So our mind can go further than our body.

So true. When we can get a vision, we can understand a vision for our life. That's better. We get all sorts of stimuli from the environment showing us how we can have a better life. And we can put two and two together with our linear logical brain and think, okay, this is where I'm going. But our body mind, our body has to be there to make it actually happen. And until you transform, we can't actualize what the brain can create. We can't actualize it in the three dimensions because we have to actually transform our entire body. being body, mind, spirit, in order to actualize what the brain sees as our potential.

And so in the disorientation phase, we're trying using an outdated operating system. We are trying to make change in the only ways we know possible, which are profoundly limited. And so that's why we're four steps and going backwards and we're having this inner tug of war because we're still having our we're have outdated aspects we have aspects of self that haven't been healed and if we don't get that healing taken care of we are not going to make that those actualize those gifts another underlying piece is in that the essential problem challenge of this phase is in an identity crisis in the end we know we know that the identity that we've had for the last more than a decade is now an outdated identity, but we haven't received the new identity yet. And so we're trying to find the new identity. We're trying to implement the new identity, but we're implementing it using linear cause and effect. We're using linear cause and effect to affect with Newtonian paradigm.

of I take this action and I'm going to get this revolt which is not going to work and but that's the only thing we know and so it will result in failure and the good news is is that we enter into dismemberment and dismemberment is the dark night of the soul this memberment is the dark deeply painful part of transformation it is the part of transformation all of us have already been through we all have been through a dark night of the soul unless you're under the age of 15 but even that's arguable that you've been through it but you were just super young and and

you didn't have a fully developed brain yet but we know what this is right And so dismemberment is the time where transformation magic happens. So even in the darkest part, which no one here ever wants to go into the dark night of the soul. But when we're in it, that dark night, that is when the previous identity dissolves, the ego death occurs. and we the fundamental operating system your fundamental structure of the self dissolves and then and then it dissolves into in the dismemberment phase and this is what causes transformation to become permanent if we don't go through dismemberment transformation is not transformation because it's just change change change is Newtonian change is move the living room furniture around and rearrange the furniture that's that's what changes transformation is we're we're making off one-story house into a two-story house that's transformation and and so until you get to dismemberment we're just doing it's just

change and and so the definition of transformation is is fundamental structural change. I'm sorry, structure building. So the very simple definition of transformation is is structure building. And inherent to structure building is structure dissolution, resolving the structure, and then rebuilding a new structure.

And then in surrender and healing phase, then life becomes much easier it's when the dawn starts coming when the pain starts to soften and the traumas of dismemberment are over and you start meeting people who are helpful to you who are that see you that care about you in ways that you've always wanted to be cared about um there's some more support around you that you didn't have when you were in the dark night, there comes some things in your daily life that make life easier, like a little bit more money, a little bit more visibility to you as a person. And you get a chance to things that you've always hoped for yourself start to happen.

It's just soothing. So for example, there's one guy that I interviewed many years ago. And during surrender healing phase, he started a new relationship with this really wonderful woman. And they ended up moving in together. And she had two children. And he had, he was an only child. And he wanted. he wanted the dad really gave to him as best he could but his dad had to work and so there was a way that his dad couldn't be there for him and so here he had he worked from home and here he had these two young children in his life all of a sudden and he was so excited because he could finally give to these young people in ways that his dad wouldn't give to him

And so every day, and he was so happy he had the flexibility of being at home. So he was so overjoyed to like every day he could give to these kids. And so it was healing to his heart, right? He was healing his childhood. And he didn't think about it that way. But when we had the conversation, he realized, oh, you're right. This is so healing for me. It's healing my wounds from my childhood, my daily, is healing and it feels good soothing in my heart but he hadn't put two and two together and it's that kind of thing it's not like you're necessarily going to therapy during the

surrender and healing phase it's that your life circumstances create the conditions for your unique childhood wounds to get south to get medicine and then the birth phase happens where the new you shows up the new operating system has fully become operational and the blueprint of the new you the new structure has completely formed and at that point quantum physics is that play during the dismemberment phase and the surrender healing phase by which the emergent structure of the new structure of the new self is emerging and drawing to you a new configuration of the new you that is emerging based on the new structure that is a more complete expression of your essence and so then you in the you show up for the first time the new you shows up for the first time in three-dimensional reality in the birth phase and i go into a great detail about the three parts of the birth phase in my book and then in the uh abundance of creativity phase that's when we can't let me pause you just

yeah let me pause you one for more second yeah because i i feel like maybe in the birth phase you know if i if i draw a parallel to like pregnancy and watching a child be born it seems like there's There can be real complications there. And I'm wondering how, you know, the pain of being born or the first breath of life, you know, or the cutting of the umbilical cord, are those similar phases. And I don't want to give way too much of the book. So don't, if I'm pushing too hard on what the answers are in the book, like, it seems like that there can still be lots of problems in the birth phase, like wanting to, to, to, to, to, go back or not being able to cut the cord or what are your thoughts on well you know what the beautiful thing about uh birthing a new human being a adult unlike childbirth is that it's

successful every time because because when we're birthing a new adult human being um the new structure is already complete the bones are already there and you already have attracted through gravity enough of your essence to the blueprint to the structure that you become physically visible you're already there and you're already there and and the birth it's extremely subtle. It's not like neon lights at all. It is very subtle. Even for, it took me like in my book, I showcase, I walk people through the 13 phases of transformation through the lives of two individuals, Kenny Johnson and Rod Hustern. And I go into granular detail of each one of the 13 phases of transformation. through their own verbatim words and me interviewing them over the course of many years but literally it took me hours and hours and hours to tease out the birth phases of both persons because it's so subtle um but but the more i'm asking questions and then it then it's like a relief it's like very becomes very poor um but it's very subtle but it's very subtle but it's very It's not anything grandiose at all, but you have to be able to have attunement to what, so that I can notice for me that I'm going through it.

Like, I'm in the surrender healing phase right now, and so I'm paying attention. I'm paying attention all the time because I'm waiting for someone to give me my new name. And they have no idea that they're naming me when they say it, because it's a very one, moment that it's off-handed comment in some very mundane moment, but I'm listening all the time because I'm waiting for my new name. And as soon as I hear my new name, then I know I'm in my birthdays, but there's two other parts that are pretty obvious once you know them. So I'm now in the state of paying attention to my birth moment, and I'm getting closer. So, yeah, so there's that. And I know we have, we might be coming up to close to your power.

I think we got some time. So, yeah, let's move. We can take our time on these next ones, but I want to move through them all. And I want it to be worthwhile. Like, I want each point for people to understand that are following along. Because I think lots of people are finding themselves here. And maybe not, even if it's, maybe someone's watching this five years from now or 12 years from now or 20 years from. So I want it to be a complete understanding for it.

That sounds good. Okay. That's awesome. Yeah, so the birth phase, the birth, there are three sacred, really sacred parts. It's all sacred, right? But there are three parts of the figure eight process of transformation where we have very unbilled and direct access to the divine. And I outlined this scientifically in my favorite paper of all,

which is that titled, Who Put the Super and Superhero? Transformation and Heroism as a function of human evolution. that's the title of the paper my my baby and um i might have to get some water but so basically there are three parts of the figure eight and the first one is the catalyst phase three so when you have that life-changing peak or trauma we all know that when you have that when you have the peak, we expand. We expand into something much greater than ourselves. And we have access to something beyond ourselves that's greater. We have direct access. In a trauma, the psyche shatters. It's part of the reason why it's hard to recover from a trauma because they're the shattering.

And just like you shatter glass, we've got to put all the little shards back together and put it back together. Humpty Dumpty. And so it's hard to put that together, but when we expand, there's an intactness to the psyche. And then when you come back from the catalyst, you come back. So there's an intactness. Whereas of the shattering with the trauma, a little bit more to put back together. And so we have this direct access. Then in dismemberment, we have direct access.

access. And so when we in the in the third phase in trauma and peak, it's like wow factor because it kind of is like, you know, you have this peak or this trauma and it's just a giant wow. And and it's kind of like, whoa, what's going on? Someone turn on the lights real quick and then turn it off and you're wow, you know. So the access to the divine has this sort of shockiness to it, whereas when you're in dismemberment, it's a long time. Usually we're in dismemberment for a couple years. And so there's this long experience of being in the darkness, being in the depths of despair, being in a deep, private, lonely, painful day after day, having to face whatever you're facing. But if you can soften into the pain, emotional, psychic pain, physical pain, you're literally touching the divine feminine. you have direct access 24-7 to the divine feminine and you can ask questions you can ask questions and receive the knowledge and so there's no other time in the figure eight in our life that we have that much direct access

in ordinary time. And so there is a well of bold in the dismemberment phase if we can just see it that way and act with that. Okay. It's dry in Wisconsin. I'm in Wisconsin. Yeah, they're cold and the dry. It'll get you.

I might have to actually get some water. Yeah, go grab some water. Do it. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, when I initially met Dr. Susie Ross, who started working through this model. And if you look at the lower half of the eight right there, if you're following along with me, the five, six, seven, eight, and nine, imagine where you are in your life. Have you had some tragedies?

Have you had some big wins? Have you had someone you love pass away? Have you maybe lost something in your life? Maybe your identity. Maybe your connection to resources. Maybe you're going through something difficult right now. Try to locate where you are on there. Is it displacement?

Is it grief and denial? Is it disorientation? Perhaps it's dismemberment. Take a look. Take a moment to go through and see where you might find yourself on this figure right. That was beautiful. Okay. So that's the second time.

And then the third is birth. is birth. The birth, I mean, if anyone's given birth, you know, you might have had to remember, you might have an experience of it. If you witnessed a birth, I mean, it's just so magical and it could be traumatic too, of course. um when we birth ourselves it's it's it's it's so so sacred like you're when i have witnessed my own birthing and in my figure eight process it's like i would there was one time one of my births i was actually co-leading a um i was co-leading an initiatory uh training of inca mysticism um with uh my dear friend elizabeth jenkins we were up in shasta

california in outside learning these ancient practices or energy practices uh of the descendants of the in the Inca with the Kero people who I learned directly from, actually with my students in Peru. And I'll never forget, I was sitting on this down a tree and just kind of just debriefing, talking, chatting with two women. And the one woman turned to me and she was like, you know, you really are I don't actually remember what she called me but it's not she didn't say elder but it's that kind of idea she just briefly said you all you really are an elder that wasn't what she said but in that moment I was like oh my god that's my name because because the name is an archetypal a archetypal

and it's it's it's the archetypal what you're stepping into what you're becoming and like oh my gosh and and that's my new name and and so the the next part of birthing is when you find yourself in a situation where people see where you see who you really are so for example and you're stepping in the shoes that are a little because they're a little big so for example one of my birth moments was uh i was in hawaii um giving a talk actually it was an income mysticism conference in hawaii and um all the speakers were at my friend's house and and and this was a while ago it was 2010 and i was surrounded by really notable people the one guy was like the top anthropologist in the world and this other guy and i was just it was a

small group of us and i thought to myself what am i doing here you know who are i what am i doing here you know i i'm just i'm not i'm nothing compared to these people and that's why i felt like i was uncomfortable right but then i recognized it oh this is a birth moment everything in my life has brought me to this moment of course I am here like I have worked so hard to get to where I am and I actually am the I'm I have something to bring to the table that's legit and so it makes sense I'm here I'm just really darn uncomfortable but I do deserve to be here like it was it wasn't like a pumping myself up it was just like our actuality. Right. So that's, I'm talking too much,

I think, but I think you, no, it's a realization. I think it's a great point. It's, it is, and it's something people understand. So,

it's a critical step. Like, you have to realize you are who you are surrounded by. You're there for a reason. And only then can you really embrace your gifts and begin to give yourself permission to be the person,

the best version of yourself. And what better, what better sort of, of a sign from the world to say hey look around look at the people next to you what are you doing here you belong here this is your spot you've earned it you're here act like it yeah right right yeah yeah there's there's a recognition from others and that you belong here you're you're supposed to be doing this you're actually and and but so the conditions when What's interesting about the lower half of transformation, integration, is that it is, it fundamentally operates in Newtonian pair, in quantum mechanics.

So, so in, we can't integrate using linear cause and effect. We cannot. It is, we must engage a participatory paradigm, and a Newtonian paradigm. which means it's a feminine paradigm where integration doesn't happen through force it doesn't happen through will it can't happen any of those ways it has to happen through all the opposite things allowing letting go surrendering a lot of patience and so so we we and so in the lower half develops our feminine because in order to integrate We have to exercise that muscle of all the feminine ways of doing, all the feminine ways of being. And so in the upper half of Figure 8 develops masculine capacities. It is fundamentally masculine. It is about doing, whereas the lower half is about being predominantly. The upper half is very sexy.

Other people can see it. People know that we're going on a journey. People are like, you know, people, you can talk about that you're going on a journey with a few people. And the lower half, it is very private, it's inward and dark and all this internal stuff that people can't see. And it feels like it lasts forever. And a lot of times, the upper half, it's not long enough. And so that's one of the reasons why when we complete the figure eight and you're in the middle of the figure eight, you come to know yourself for the first time.

When you get back and you complete the figure eight, what you will have done inside among many things and you will have a marriage of the internal masculine and feminine. You will have developed your masculine in the upper half, developed your feminine in the lower half, developed your feminine in the lower half. And then there's the inner marriage, which of course is the conjunctio, Carl Young, that helps us to explain. That's the whole goal,

is this internal, masculine, feminine marriage, which brings us into a state of farming, a state of integration, a state of fullness. It makes me want to change that age, old symbol of the snake eating its tail into like a snake with a loop on the bottom so it's a full figure eight you know they'll be a beautiful symbol i mean the figure eight is already there but it's yeah it's it's amazing to to get to see that and then there's the move into abundance and creativity

yeah this is the fun part of transformation like so the lower left and the upper right can be more lighter for sure the lower left is just this is where all the hard work all the suffering everything been through it all starts to pay off and and so when we move into the abundance creativity phase this is excuse me this is where we get a chance to receive and reap the rewards so literally our life starts really looking up we start getting opportunities that we always dreamed of people that have the resources and the knowledge and the relationships that we want and need, they all just start showing up. We start like, so for example, you know, I'm in the surrender

healing phase, like I said, but like just recently I got a promotion when I dayjad. I've been wanting a promotion forever, right? But this came out of blue, came out of nowhere. So that was so healing for my heart and and it certainly got me excited and happy and all these sorts of wonderful things very healing but in the abundance phase it will be more along the lines of I'm really meeting people who are excited to work with me and train with me to learn about the figure eight there'll be people coming to to do integration work with me and that is going to be where I'm really starting to feel that abundance like because my whole life purpose is about teaching and training this figure eight now this is the rest of my life is in

service of this eight so nothing is bringing me more joy to talk about it train about it read about it and so when I get into the abundance and creativity phase all of the people the the money, the infrastructure, the everything that I need to be able to deliver my gifts will all fall into place and I'll be able to deliver my gifts, whatever my gifts are. And so it's incredible. This is why it has to be quantum. Because everything starts coming together. And you're not doing anything. You're doing some things, right? You're doing some things.

But really, it's the gravitational pull of your emergent identity that draws the right people, the places, and everything so that all areas of your life get better. Your eating gets better. Your body gets better. Your relationships get better. Your work gets better. Your finances get better.

your you get a new car you get your your friendships are more aligned with who you are uh who you become so that there's an alignment an alignment with this greater version of yourself that you always knew was there but now your life your daily life affirms and reflects who you are and pay you for it literally and uh and so literally every single area because a lot of times people say oh well i'm in abundance creativity in this part of my life but not over here is it possible that i'm in this faith in my personal life and misplays in my my professional life and i'm like nope because when you look at transformation there's either a caterpillar or there's a butterfly There's no like half, half caterpillar, half butterfly.

It's either one or the other transformation is, is complete. And so really all areas of your life will be in abundance. And when all areas are in abundance, every single area, then you're in abundance creativity. And I'll say people are very optimistic, way more optimistic, including me, than we think because I can't tell you how many people I've interviewed and they're like, yep, I'm in the abundance and creativity phase. And I'm like, you know. But because once you get in it, you'll know because it's like you get really busy. That's the only thing about abundance creativity phase?

Really, really busy. And then after the abundance creativity phase, which the last couple years, you're really, really busy. And then in the power phase, you have your people in place. You have things start slowing down because you have this full infrastructure helping you to do whatever you're good at. Whatever brings you joy, because this is about joy. Abundance and creativity is about sharing your strengths, what you're really good at, what you love.

And whatever it is that you love, it starts to all come together. And then in the power phase, you kind of got it down. You've got your systems in place, your people in place. You've got, you know, you figured out the software and figured out all these things and you don't have to work as hard. You don't, you really literally don't have to work as hard. In the power phase, people recognize you as expert in whatever you're good at. Other people know you're good at it.

So, for example, everyone knows you're an amazing podcast. Thank you. Everybody knows, right? They see your gifts. They see your intelligence. They see your laughter. They see like your passion. And they're like, yeah, he is, you're a recognized, known expert leader in the psychedelic

space. And that's emblematic of power, faith. Now, are you in the power phase right now? No. Because you does. Because you are, you achieved that a while back. We've achieved that a while back when you were in power phase. So anyway, the power phase is more like you're the orchestra leader and you're leading the orchestra and all the orchestra. And all the orchestra is has their own notes and you're like this so you're not working as hard because you have all this aspects of your life that you're you're guiding and and in a power phase is so helpful because you have more time you have more free time you have more discretionary income and you you can kind of just actually enjoy your life for a change whereas during the abundance creativity phase you're like whoa i'm so busy uh and then that happens for a couple

years and then is the integration phase phase 13 and that's where you enter into the figure eight center the place where you're starting and when we go into integration this is when we enter into homeostasis we enter into a state of total harmony where we are in a physiological state of harmony between all the polarities the above and the below the fire in the water the masculine and the feminine the quiet and the loud the soft and the sharp the movement and the stillness when we enter into integration we are a living embodiment of wholeness when we're in that state our there is no resistance between the inner and the outer world our outer world is a beautiful and precise reflection of the internal

state so that every part of your life is perfectly in harmony and reflection of your essence of who you have become. It's not a facade. It's not something like I know that I'm this, but my outside word doesn't show it. It's that everything is seamless between the inner and the outside. And in that state, we literally have heaven on earth. We are in a state of heaven on earth. And we have brought into the three-dimensional state

through 13 phases of transformation. We have literally brought energy into matter just like a tree just like a tree that that converts light into matter we have brought light into matter but it takes going into the darkness dissolving space for that light to become affirmed into our newly emergent structure so that we can reconfigure and hold that light in our body. It's the beginning of enlightenment, light into matter. Sometimes it might take more than one figure eight, probably does.

Many figure eights, maybe across many lifetimes. until we get a critical mass of light in our body. And then we get to have a lucky experience like the Buddha did. And other people like them, where the critical mass of light in the body, like they say, the individual laws, you know? So, you know, the Incas, the descendants of the Inca, the Kero people, in their cosmology,

they recognize, that that is the ultimate goal of the human experiment is to bring light into matter and to eventually where the body develops and yeah so now you know a lot more about the figure eighth yeah and i feel like we're just getting warmed up i thought this this is a has been quite oh oops i missed you there um where am i out here there we go there we go You know, this whole trip around the figure eight, and you and I have been talking for quite some time, it's been really incredible to have a map and understanding, you know, to see footprints on the path and understand the direction you're heading into, the different language around it. And it's unlike anything I've ever seen or heard before. And I'm a huge fan of Joseph Campbell in mythology and trying to read and learn as much as I can. But I think what we saw here today was just the, very beginning of people beginning to use this map in their life to become the best versions

of themselves. And for those listening, this is just the first of many series. We have many more slides and graphs and tables and you'll be hearing a lot more from Dr. Susie and I. But as we are coming up to a little bit of a time frame right here, I want to give it back to you, Dr. Susie. I know you've got to book out. And for those reading right now, Susie Ross.net, there's a QR code right at the bottom right there. You can scan it. You can get to the site and you can check it out. Let me send it back to you, Dr. Susie Ross. Where can people find you? What do you have coming up and what are you excited about?

Are you still muted? I want to thank you for having me here, allowing me to share my joy, this figure eight that's been given to me to share it with you and whoever is listening. And what's happening next is if you go to my website, website susie ross.net the two offerings that i have coming up is transformation 101 which is a two-hour primer where i go into the figure eight with you and get better orientation to the figure eight there's a coupon code there for anyone that's the same of this podcast for that transformation 101 primer and that's kind of required for anything working with me you've got to understand the

eight and once you understand the eight then we can move from there then I'm offering next in starting in January is integration oasis and that's an integration circle six weeks two hour the week where you'll have 24-7 private community for posting and sharing and doing homework and I'll be working with you live every week to apply evidence-based practices of integration and so that we can help to integrate whatever life-changing experience you're currently chewing on we will work directly with that and those six weeks can be recurring so that way because integration lasts a lot longer than six weeks so if you wanted to repeat and do the six weeks again then the price goes down each time you engage in the six-week integration process.

And that way we'll continuously chew on and integrate and help each other through that process. And then I'll be coming up with Transformation Skills Lab. I don't have that yet on my website, but the Transformation Skills Lab will be three weeks. And in that, I will teach different evidence-based trends. skills for transformation. They're basically integration skills. And I will be teaching two skills per week where I'll teach it, I'll demonstrate it, and then we practice the skill, and we'll do two skills a week. So that way you can literally learn the skill and apply it immediately. And you can also teach other people the skills. So if you're in a situation where you're leading

others, you can teach the skill directly that day because they're relatively simple and easy to do. So that way, they're not, you know, you just like kind of, it's easy. So why not you, let's do it. And you can do that, you know, daily. So that's, those are some of the things that I'm going to be offering here starting in the new year. Well, fantastic. Let me read. We have a couple comments I wanted to bring up for my friend Lydia. Lydia, Faranda, thank you so much for being here. I hope your day is absolutely beautiful. She says, thank you so much, very relatable. We all need purpose, meaning, and connection.

I have experienced stepping in my own. Not focusing on what you can't control. Letting go. This is a rebirth moment for me. Thank you. I needed to hear this. Also, I believe I am in transformation in the integration phase.

Light into matter. Love this. Ladies and gentlemen, go down to the show notes and check out Susie Ross.net. Reach out to her. Check out the new book. If you found this exciting, I believe you'll find the book to be riveting.

And like I said, stay tuned because we're going to be doing a series with Dr. Susie Ross and I. And that's all we got for today, ladies and gentlemen. I hope you have a beautiful day. Dr. Susie Ross, hang on briefly afterwards to everyone else. I hope you have a beautiful holiday season and a wonderful day. Aloha. You get home, yeah, go out, you're going to be away, way, way, way, way, way, that's me. Oh, yeah, that's what more me, you can go.

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la la la la la la la la I'm I've thought again I'm like you're a man I'm gonna be I'm gonna see

I don't know I'm gonna go I'm gonna I'm gonna love I'm gonna never never trust I'm taking a child

and I'm away I know what you want I'm gonna be a difference Oh Oh Oh I'm

Derry Oh my Oh Yeah Oh Yeah Go away mine

I'm going I'm not I'm the one you never never trust I'm saying I'm saying I'm not going to say I'm the one

you are going to say I'm a fucking yes I don't you know you're right you're not a girl I just think

but then you can have done of death Oh Oh Sorry Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, and so on, you know, so, oh, so, oh, so, oh, yeah. Oh, wow!