TrueLife - Blood, Plants, & Power: W/Stephanie Abrams & Jenn Zuckerman

Episode Date: June 16, 2025

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/JENNIFER ZUCKERMAN & STEPHANIE KARZON(This isn’t a podcast. It’s a summoning.)They are not healers…They are system-sabotaging, pharmaceutically-disobedient shadow surgeonsdisguised as womenwho came not to integrate with the machine—but to lovingly dismantle it from the inside.Jennifer Zuckerman walks like she remembers the burning templesof medicine,and she’s here with a torch and a playlist.White coat? Gone.Now it’s tinctures, trauma maps, and prescription pad arson.She doesn’t taper meds—she liberates identities wrapped in child-proof caps.She’s the bridge between clinical protocol and cosmic remembrance,reminding you that healing isn’t sterile—it’s wild, erotic, terrifying, and sacred.She doesn’t treat patients.She resurrects forgotten gods buried under a decade of SSRIs.⸻Then there’s Stephanie Karzon,clinical neuropharmacologist and operational hitwoman for the new paradigm.She’s the kind of woman who can turn an Excel sheetinto an occult artifact,a protocol into a prophecy,and a strategy session into a reality distortion fieldwhere logic and magic shake hands and start a band.She’s part oracle, part hacker, part psychedelic systems saboteur.Her workflows breathe. Her molecules plot.She’s redesigning healing itself—not to fit the system,but to make the system irrelevant.You don’t hire Stephanie to fix things.You summon her when it’s time to burn down the lie of “efficiency”and replace it with sacred recursion, intuitive intelligence, and bioluminescent logistics.⸻Together—Jennifer and Stephanie—aren’t part of a movement.They’re the rupture.The mycelial insurgents crawling beneath the hospital floorboards.The ones who plant psilocybin in your care planand call it “a necessary correction.”This isn’t wellness.This is the sacred rewilding of medicine.This isn’t healthcare.It’s a feral uprising with a stethoscope and a serpent drum.You thought you came to listen?You came to remember.Welcome to the frontlineof the ritual reprogrammingof everything you were told healing had to be.Let’s begin.https://linktr.ee/steph__k?utm_source=linktree_profile_share&ltsid=ef7a3580-8859-439d-b7b5-9fd55a4a11b9https://iresonatehealth.com/ One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark, fumbling, fear. furious through ruins maze, lights my war cry, born from the blaze.

The poem is Angels with Rifles, the track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Seraphini. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the True Life podcast. I hope everybody's having a beautiful day. I hope the sun is shining. I hope the birds are singing. I hope the wind is at your back. This episode I have titled The Medicine Has Teeth, with Jennifer Zuckerman and Stephanie Carson.

They are not healers. They are system-sabotaging pharmaceutically disobedient shadow surgeons disguised as women, who came not to integrate with the machine, but to lovingly dismantle it from the inside. Jennifer Zuckerman walks like she remembers the burning temples of medicine. And she's here with a torch and a playlist. White coat gone. now it's tinctures, trauma maps, and prescription pad arson. She doesn't taper meds. She liberates identities wrapped in childproof caps. She's the bridge between clinical protocol and cosmic

remembrance reminding you that healing isn't sterile. It's wild. It's erotic. It's terrifying and sacred. She doesn't treat patients. She resurrects forgotten gods buried under a decade of SSRIs. And then there's Stephanie Karzan. Clinical neuropharmacologist and operational hitwoman for the new paradigm. She's the kind of woman who can turn an Excel sheet into an occult artifact, a protocol into a prophecy, and a strategy session into a reality distortion field where logic and magic shake hands and start a band. She's part Oracle, part hacker, part psychedelic system saboteur, her workflows breathe, her molecules plot. You don't hire Stephanie to fix things. You summon her when it's time to burn down the lie of efficiency and replace it with the sacred recursion,

intuitive intelligence and bioluminescent logistics. Ladies, thank you so much for being here today. How are you? Thank you. Wow. I love it. The best intro I ever got. Yeah. That's fun.

Yeah. That's what we strive for here. Yeah. So I figured I could just kind of jump into a question. We got a bunch of questions that are kind of stacking up from the chat. And I think that your background will kind of flesh out as we get through these questions. And so the first question that we have coming in is, from who is this coming from this one's coming us from deseray in palm desert she says tapering off

pharmaceuticals i'm sorry she says what if each pharmaceutical what if each pharmaceutical a person is on acts like a spiritual law and that's kind of a big question but what are your girls thoughts on that i'll start with you stephanie go ahead what can you repeat the question yes the question is what if each pharmaceutical a person is on acts like a spiritual luck. It can. Okay. I can.

Okay. So here's my position. Okay. Let's start here. So I'm a neuropharmacologist. I obviously trained in Western medicine and then with time became more and more interested in alternatives, plants, et cetera, psychedelics. And I believe that to each his own, I believe that pharmaceuticals have their place for a lot

of people and can help a lot of people. But I do think that we're limited. in many, many areas. I do think that we deserve the right to try other medicines. I think that there are many people who are out of options and regular pharmaceuticals are not working for them. And this is something that both Jen and I do is we're trying to push for more education, advocacy, and access. And for many people, yeah, pharmaceuticals are the lock to the spirit. You know, for a lot of people, it's not only isn't not working for them, but it burdens them. It limits them from experiencing their life to the fullest.

And so by working with people not just like directly in a clinical way, but also advancing research, I guess like our mutual goals here are to expand access to other other medicines. The beautiful thing about plant medicine that pharmaceuticals do not seem to do is unlock the ability to expand one's consciousness. So we're not replacing one pharmaceutical with a plant or psychedelic pharmaceutical. We are substituting here for something that is going to also heal not only your body, but also your mind and your spirit. And this is something that Western pharmaceuticals cannot do.

Yeah. And so when you're talking about holistic integrative care, body, mind, and spirit medicine, I think we have this amazing opportunity and we are reminded that these medicines can do all of that because people have known this for so for so long and we forgot a lot of us have forgotten that these are the originals yeah yeah um i mean i share the same sediments as stuff i also believe there's a time and a space in place for different pharmaceuticals for certain individuals at different times and grateful that we have all these options of healing and whatever modality is right fit for that person and they're i always say their own personal algorithm

right? And so we're not here to bastardize pharmaceuticals. They can be utilized as adjuncts. And I am here to also be a bridge from the spiritual and the science and to guide people as they taper off meds. And as they taper off of certain medications, especially antidepressants and anti-anxiety meds, then as they start to go away, their personalities start to show up in a different way. There is a little bit of a learning curve for the body to remember again. and for the mind and body to be in sync and to trust oneself. And I always say when somebody's tapering, we'll go through a few sticky days every dose drop.

And it's in those days that we get to be kinder to ourselves and lean in. And we have these tools like microdosing, microdosing psilocybin, microdosing kana, different other supplements that can help us as our bodies are regulating. So we have this toolbox that we start to formulate and we get to begin relationships in other ways with other plant medicines and other, supplements and allies that we can have as our pharmaceuticals go away and our bodies start to readjust and we get to lean in and know ourselves even more because we'll be that much more expanded out

as these locks are unlocked. Yeah, it's well said. I love the word remembering. It has like when you just think about that word, like sometimes you think about something that you did or you're going, you might want to do. But I also like the definition of it, like you're remembering, like you're putting back together that which is inside of you. And it seems to me we're in this weird sort of like area where science and spirituality are remembering that they're one of the same things there. Each of you have is a unique experience. And I'm wondering maybe I can start with you, Stephanie. What was it about remembering that brought you over to sort of the plant medicine side of it versus where you were at? When I was younger, I remember leaning very, very much into my

intuition. And I think that, you know, once you get into like higher education and higher learning, it's like there's no more space for intuition. It's just like, get out. Learn this, memorize this, you know. And so I recall this like period when I was doing my, you know, my graduate degree and I was doing like research fellowships where all of my energy was so geared to getting my diploma and then getting the job and then doing the thing. And there was this period where I wasn't remembering my creativity. I wasn't remembering my intuitive powers. As a child, I remember being so intuitive, so connected to some other realm, right?

And then in the midst of becoming a scientist, everything kind of moved to the wayside. And there was a forgetting, mostly because there was no space for it. And my brain was just on this one track. And once I finished all of that and joined the workforce, I think it propagated for a little bit. But then when plant medicines and psychedelics entered my life, that's when the remembering started to happen. I recall the thread, the line of communication with my intuition, you know, resurfaced and reemerged. I dropped into, I guess, like, conscious and subconscious spaces that I had not dropped into in a really long time.

Pieces started to come together from childhood, from other important periods of my life. And everything started to fall back into place. And they were reminders of who I once was mixed with who I am today. And it was this big aha moment. And these moments continue to resurface every time I sit with a plan. you know, and I have an experience. And even when I don't, just in everyday life, the integration is just perpetual, you know?

Like, it is. It's like I could be in the middle of like writing an email. And then there's like this thought that just like, you know, like kind of comes into my field. And it's always a remembering. It's always this recall, this retether. And so when I was shifting my career, because I worked in hospital setting,

I worked for Johnson & Johnson corporate healthcare and medical device for six years. When I decided to shift away from that and enter this space, it was part because I had my own experiences and I was very, very much inspired. But it was also part of a remembering of who I was before school, before, you know, you have to graduate and become a scientist. And so it was inspiring to me. And Jen said it, it was inspiring to me to bridge the science. with the spirit. And I mean, that's like the short form, I guess, version of this story. But in essence,

that's kind of how it all happened. Yeah. It's beautiful. Jen, what do you think? What are your thoughts on that? I remembering, I think, well, as children, we all come in, we're very intuitive beings. And we, depending on where we land and the family dynamics and the units that we find ourself amongst, we are taught not as much to foster those intuitive gifts, but we start to close them off, especially if we're with families that reflect back, that it's, do as I say, do this. This is the way it's supposed to look. And no, no, no, don't trust, not even the word trust your intuition, like, comes into play. I think now we're at a place collectively where we speak this way and it's more accepted. And I say that the children that are coming in now are just

like on this really fast track to whatever they're here to serve and share in their gifts. Like I just say keep the roadblocks up so they don't fear off the track too far and let them just go and shine where I think that the earlier generations had a bit more to process and overcome to come back to this awareness that we do trust our intuition. I trust myself the most. And that's what I teach and work with people, that your intuitive being in nature and everything that is for you is right. best. You cannot do any wrong. Can you make a choice that maybe doesn't have the outcome that

is the most desired until you figure out what those messaging systems are and how they're coming in and your whatever you want to call them, your guides, your nature is our other guide. She talks with us all the time, like paying attention to the universal pings that are like, oh yeah, if I'm speaking and I get a Bing in agreement with the universe, I know that I'm like, continue on, like, are on the right path. Those are little things that we can foster now. I didn't let go of my intuition as much. I think I fought the system a bit more to say, like, no, this isn't what I believe in my core nature.

And that showed up in my early childhood and my teens, questioning, definitely being reprimanded for questioning authority because it didn't make sense. And then going into like the educational system. And again, just like doing it to get through it and then deciding to go. into nursing and because I care and because I felt like this intuition of medicine practice, whatever that meant, but then you start to forget because you get put in these cohorts amongst people that, and also there's this competitive nature too. So you're like, well, this person is speaking by the book and they're writing this paper or they're published and there's this, and they have all

this information that they're sharing that they're being, you know, acclimated, you know, having applause for and they have accolades. And so it's fine in your path. And I was, in private practice and I was seeing patients like 25 average a day. And I started to channel intuitive things. And some people it landed well and other times it didn't. And I would get a interesting backlash of people when they weren't ready. If I'm like, okay, if something's continuing to happen on your right side, like what's going on in your masculine? And I was speaking this language in private practice. And then I was like, oh, like square peg round hole, let's figure this out. plant medicine showed up in my life again, because I had a recreational side and I took a long break.

And it showed up for me. And I was like, wait a minute, I can utilize these tools, not only for myself, but to support others in their processing and to start to hear themselves again. And so I think that is the process of remembering. It's just, it's always there. It's just tapping back in and then honing in and strengthening it because it just becomes stronger over time. I love it. I love this, this sort of Ariadne-D-Duty thread that runs. through so many people I talk to and it's this threat of rebellion. On some level, it's standing up to the authority or standing up to the institution. It tells you this is who you have to be to be successful. You've got to have this car. You have to have this relationship.

And so much of that allows us to lose trust in ourselves. We start undermining ourselves with negative self-talk or maybe I'm not. It seems to me that that's where so much of the mental illness comes in. Like the whole DSM comes in and gives you this label about who you are, what you should be, and now you have this identity out there. But it sounds to me like both of you have found a way to remember who you are and to navigate in this world. What are your thoughts on the relationship between rebellion and finding trust in who you are? Oh my gosh, rebellion. I mean, we have, Jen and I share this.

Okay, that's here. We totally share this because I've always, I've always been like a good, I was always a good kid, but like, oh my God, do not say no to me. And I would say, what, why? Like the top pack, you know, I would always want the last word. So it's been a part of my personality. And, you know, of course it could, there's a balance, right? So like it could bite you in the ass when you're a kid. It could bite you in the ass when you're an adult as well.

So it's like part of the learning is when to accept no and when not to accept no, when to push against the boundary or the envelope and when to sit back and listen. and wait your turn. And I think that that comes with life experience. And I think I've learned those lessons. I think I continue to learn those lessons. But I think, you know, forging a new path in general, you know, whether it's in an industry or it's in your career or it's just in your human experience

is an act of rebellion. To say I'm not going to go down the road that everyone follows or I'm going to make something new out of nothing. I'm going to catalyze a movement. I'm going to be, you know, I want a seat at the table at this new movement. All of that. It's an act of rebellion. And I think it takes courage.

But first and foremost, it takes knowing oneself really, really well. And, you know, of course you can take a plant medicine, a psychedelic, and you can sit with it. And you could, you know, wait to hear what it has to say to you. But for me, it always comes down to ritual. And I don't need a substance for a ritual. And I certainly don't need a substance to sit with myself and. reflect and go inward. But having experiences with these plants has taught me how to do that without them as well. And talking about, you know, like fostering your inner intuition. Sometimes

the voice inside says, just sit with yourself. Just, you know, take 30 minutes and sit on the ground and, you know, close your eyes and see what comes. And other times the messages, you know, maybe a plant would be more, you know, useful. But this in time, higher movement, this reemergence, resurgence around plant medicines and psychedelics and healthcare is an active rebellion because these systems have been in place for years and have made no space for any kind of alternative way to the point where like the people who hold the knowledge are physicians, our practitioners, they don't even have the time or the space to investigate, you know? And something that Jen and I both do is,

educate and we want to bring this knowledge to the practitioners that maybe don't have the time to go learn this. We want to put it right in front of them and say, look at this research paper, use this research, use this data to shift your practice, or at least to be informed so that when a patient or a client comes to you and says, what about psilocybin? What about this medicine? Can it help me? You don't say, oh, I don't know anything about that. You're their only point of, of, of, of, information. It's your responsibility to know, but you are locked in a system that doesn't allow you to know because you have 15 minutes with every patient. You got 100 patients a day. So if we can be a bridge, you know, I don't see patients directly, but I'm a clinical director at a clinic and I see patients

that way. But if I can be a bridge between the practitioners and the data, then I feel like I'm, I guess I'm fulfilling my Dharma in a sense, because I do. have the time to invest because I chose to invest. I chose to rebel against the system, but I also chose to live within the system. Being on the inside and working your way around it, to expand it, to grow it, I think is the way. You can't just push back on everything.

And so going back to what I was saying, as a child, I pushed back, right? And I lacked the maturity and the life experience to know when to push, when not to push. But now I realize that it's not so much about pushing back. It's about getting on the inside, getting on the same level and working the system from from the inside from the inside out right and i think fortunately because i was trained in like a western medical field i can speak the language and i can

you know walk the walk talk the talk and then you know use all of the lessons and the beautiful knowledge that i'm gaining along the way to um to make significant change and and impact people's lives in that way i love it that's beautiful jen rebellion what let's hear a story Oh, man, so many. But like Steph, I think it's an art. And you come to a place of like, okay, I'm still going to, I'm speaking my truth. I know I might be putting myself out there and it might yield resistance until it doesn't. And so now it's like, okay, how do we artfully strategize and like work it from the inside and change in a way, which means to be in more observation mode.

Hold the words a little longer. Allow more information to come in because then you can still like present. in a way that maybe will be heard better than when you come out of the gate and shut down someone else because you feel so empowered and you're on your soapbox because then people are like, I don't wanna listen to that. Like I'm gonna close up.

But instead, there's a saying, if you whisper, it brings someone closer to hear you. So speaking lighter in a way that is, it brings that gravitational force toward you. I think it's something that I've definitely learned and honed in on and learning every day. Never perfect. And I think just as an entrepreneur and having my own practice and learning and collaborating with others, I've had to learn to like speak less, say less and receive more.

And then when you do have a formulated thought that you can come in and it's that much more effective. So I think that, but my younger years and not that long ago, I was very much like, like, don't tell me no. And if you tell, well, no is my, like, if you say no, I'm going to, well, watch me. Like, I'll, it fuels me. And now I'm like, well, now I've learned all about boundaries and speaking our boundaries. And I'm like, okay, if somebody says no, like, maybe it's really a no. Let's be polite and let's get it to a yes.

If it's really something that I feel is for the greatest good and why we're here. But, yeah, if I had wisdom to share with my younger self is just, you can still be spunked. and speak out and you just be a little bit more, yeah, strategic. Just as you're reigning your own kingdom of self, you get to learn what that means. And I could have learned a little earlier, but here we are. And I'm grateful for this moment. Yeah. Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want.

Right? And it's so valuable. I got a brilliant question coming in here. It's about estrogen. And it says, let me see who it's coming from. This one's coming from Amara, and she says, could estrogen be nature's original psychedelic? And I think she's talking to the different states in which estrogen puts people into. Like, it's sort of psychedelic in a way.

What are you? I appreciate the question. Yeah. It's so interesting. Well, and then it's like, okay, yes, in its nature, I'm going to speak to it just because I find this question really fun. when when you're having a cyclical experience, you feel like you can be on a roller coaster at times with your estrogen spikes and dips. So in a way, it is like it is a journey, whether and speaking of someone in a menstruation cycle,

let's say it's a 28 day journey. There's going to be two points in which there's these peaks and drops. And also, I believe learning to speak the language and self, to self-coach. Like, okay, like, I know in these days on my cycle, I might be a bit more agitated or irritable or labile. And what can I do and be kind and not, like, take the, like, drown the ship because I'm feeling a little bit more emotional, not as buoyant as I always am. And I think that's also coaching yourself as a guide. So in that way, I can see it as a psychedelic experience. But yeah, I do believe it has like it likens to that and it can even magnetize to a person into psychosis,

potentially. And if you look at PMDD, that's a whole other place in which hormones are taking the wheel and someone doesn't feel like they have all their scruples. Yeah, your cycle is not a curse is what I like to say. I think your cycle is your superpower because like Jen is speaking, there's a rhythm. And it's a blueprint. And it's a blueprint for your creativity, your resilience and your renewal. And I think we have to honor it and we have to stop working against it.

But part of honoring it, again, it always goes back to like holding up the mirror and taking the time to invest in learning oneself and tracking our cycles and being very intentional with noticing how we feel and when. And I think that once we start doing that, then we kind of move into this. this way of like deep, deep alignment, estrogen is a neuromodulator. So it can alter your perception. It modulates your sensory processing, your emotional resonance, and even your cognitive patterns to the point that when women go through perimenopause and eventually we go through

menopause, there is a very, very noticeable period where women experience brain fog. and that's due to the dip in estrogen. Before that, though, like during high estrogen phases, like ovulation, women can experience heightened creativity and emotional sensitivity. They can feel more socially, like, attuned. And I think that this presents a really interesting, you know, opportunity for psychedelics because serotonin and estrogen are very much linked. So your classic psychedelics like LSD, mescaline, psilocybin, ayahuasca, these all play on your serotonergic system.

And it is the most influential system for a woman. Okay. And so there's a relationship here between estrogen and serotonin, meaning that depending on where you are in your cycle, not only can you feel the psychedelic more deeply, but it could also change the outcomes of that experience. So not just how the psychedelic feels, but how the psychedelic may heal because they even published, I say researchers published some research, I think it was last year or the beginning of this year, that showed that the intensity of your psychedelic experience will affect your clinical outcome. So there's so much opportunity here. And estrogen also is a gateway to transformation.

Think about just like the menstrual cycle, pregnancy. It creates like these. shifting internal landscapes. So I think that, yeah, whoever asked that question is brilliant and it's very intuitive. And I'm sure she has paid very close attention to how she feels throughout her cycles. And I encourage women everywhere to, you know, not get overwhelmed by the shifts in their cycle, even though sometimes it can be very overwhelming. But, you know, try to ground yourself in noticing and journaling.

and yeah, make that relationship, that bond with yourself a lot stronger and use your cycle as your superpower. Yeah, I think, and I would like to add, there's so much noise coming out in data, thankfully, but with all the access to social media and the influence that that can have, there's a lot of chatter with women in different places of their cycle, especially perimenopause and menopause. and sometimes that can be really invasive into attuning to what our body and mine is really feeling. And is it like, oh, am I having lack of sleep because I'm dipping in my, you know, do I need progesterone because I'm not sleeping well? Well, maybe.

And also let's give it a little bit more space and come in more neutrality when we're reading or listening to data that's coming out from different individuals. So it's not a scare tactic that's coming in, but we're utilizing it for more information. and to know when to just quiet it and allow our body to speak to us over anything else. Yeah, I love those answers. And thank you, Amara, for asking the question. Sometimes, in this conversation makes me think, sometimes I feel like medicine has gotten so specialized, like so deep into the woods that we've just forgotten it. Hey, maybe it's okay.

You know, what did we do before we had all these clinical tests, before we had all those things? Are we forgetting something? And is psychedelics helping us to remember that maybe everything is okay? What are your thoughts? Do you get? Go ahead. So I appreciate having all these access points and data points where we can look at our levels

and see what is reflected back to us. As that said, I also think that there's so much data that is received that we can share without those markers. And I actually also think that sometimes having those markers potentially could be a hindrance in someone's healing process. if they're fixated on numbers because also there are like outliers of what the normal ranges are and what your normalates could be different and different like reflected in a different way. So I think it's a yes and they can be helpful.

And I also believe that we have so much that we're attuned to and that accessing that we can do so much with nature and what's like herbs, supplements and how our body's feeling and reporting that data. and trusting that we're okay. Like I know as a provider, I'm questioning myself like, oh, I haven't had my labs check. It's probably been like a year and a half. And I'm going to do that. But I'm like, okay, but I know everything is fine.

And then I'm like, don't be stupid, Jen. Like you could have something wrong. You should look and, you know, and same with like I, you know, a mammogram. I recommend every, you know, depending on the person, however many years. And I'm like, I'm going to push one more year. I feel okay about it. Or like, if I don't get there in six months, I'm okay. I'm doing self-check.

Like I trust if something's off. And again, I don't want to ever gaslight myself and I'm in my brain all the time. Like, I believe that I'm well. And so I am well. And then I'm also like at the provider in me that's been trained to look for discrepancy is like, oh, is something wrong and you're not paying attention? You better go get that looked at just in case. So I think we get a lot without having those markers and they can be a hindrance. And I'm grateful for them in case something really is off that we have data points and to watch fluctuations.

So that's my answer. Yeah. Stephanie, what would you add to that? Yeah, I think I agree. It's a balance, you know, like too much data is way overwhelming. But I have an appreciation, I think, for like where we've taken modern medicine. I mean, it's freaking incredible. People are living longer.

People are living healthier because there's an awareness about what is important. And I think that the trick here, the art, is to fade out all the noise and say, okay, I might not need to know all about this marker or I don't need the panel that has, you know, 600 different tests, but there are basics that I need to know. And I always say that, like, simplicity is key. If you're doing the basics, you're doing amazing, right? And if you want to invest more time and learning more about your body, by all means. But it's like, don't go down the rabbit, the rabbit. whole, you know, too deeply because then I think it can, it could be counterproductive and it could be more harmful, you know, the perfect example is like fitness and eating healthy, right? So, you know, being fit and eating well, amazing. And then you start to get into these realms where maybe now you're measuring your food and now you're being a little bit obsessive about how many bell peppers you ate last Tuesday. And I speak, I say that because I once did bodybuilding, you know, I'm

always been an athlete and I was like this is a cool challenge let me do it I never stepped on stage but I followed the whole regiment and I was measuring my food because the only way I could get really precise with everything was if I measured but then that became you know an obsession and I had to let that go really quickly and I had to go back to my intuition so this is full circle I had to go back to eating more intuitively and I had to learn that and I had to let go of all of the data points and macros and the percentage of body fat. So that's, I think like that's the perfect analogy. I think you can live well, eat healthy, be healthy, and you can also still be super

interested in how the body works and all of the modern innovations and functional medicine and genetic medicine, but just don't let it drive you crazy. And the same thing applies to psychedelics, you know? It's like you don't need to sit with plant medicine every week. But it's a slippery slope. It's a slippery slope. I certainly encounter people who take it to an obsession. And now it's like you become addicted to healing, but you're not.

You're not healing anymore. You could actually be doing yourself some harm. So I guess moderation. That's what they say. Yeah, I think that that's one of the questions science I always ask is, how do you manage what you can't measure? And then we get back onto that other slippery slope of like, well, what about the tears of my loved one who's been depressed and now that I see them? It's interesting.

But you brought up fitness over here, and we have Betsy. Betsy's coming to us from Oceanside, California. Betsy, you're awesome. She's got a gym called House of Fitness. I want you to go check it out. If you're down there, check out House of Fitness. She says, what's something your body knew before you did? Thank you, Betsy.

It's a brilliant question. That's a great question. People are asking great questions. Yeah. I told you, I got the best audience in the world. Yeah, yeah. Something that my body knew before I did. It's so hard because the body and the mind are like connected, right?

So it's like, I don't know. Okay, wait, wait, I'm kind of stumped right now. Okay, maybe it's a little general and maybe as we keep talking, something will, we'll come more specific, we'll come to mind. But my body knows when, when like a relationship or like a partnership is out of alignment. Okay. There's like when I, when my body will tell me to be discerning, like there might be red flags that my brain is not acknowledging. but usually there's like this tightness in my solar plexus.

And I tend to write a lot about the solar plexus because for me it's like it's such an intuitive guide. But I get this like tightness, this like this bodily like tightness sensation in in that area where it feels like this. There's something not right. Like I shouldn't be doing this or I don't want to be doing this. And then it takes some time for my head to catch up. But with time I've learned to tune into that.

way earlier and not say, you know, no, I should just keep going and try to like rationalize a situation or even rationalize a person. I like to see the good in people. I like to believe in people, but I also like to believe in myself. And so sometimes what happens is if I'm in partnership for like business with someone, I'll say, it's okay. Like I got this. So it'll be fine. But it's the other person that you're in partnership with is not an alignment. It doesn't matter how solid you are. The whole team needs to be solid. One plus one equals three. Yeah. So I think that's, I think that's what it is at the end of the day for me. It's like when someone feels out of alignment, it could, my body knows, sends a message to my brain and my brain might deny it for a little

while before being like, okay, okay, okay, okay, we're going to listen. Yeah. I think through the evolution of self. It's these little whispers that I hear now before there screams, which are things that happen to the body that is like, you have no choice but to pause and to like pay attention. So I prefer it to be a stubbing of the toe pay attention than like God for being a limb paying attention, right? Like there's different things that show up and energetic. The body is also of this energetic vessel. So when something is out of alignment, again, you can get little hints that you pay attention to well before if your lack of sleep, you're pushing yourself too hard.

I'd rather like pay attention to these little whispers if I feel fatigued and then get sick and have, although that said, if I ever have a cold, which doesn't happen often, I use it as a cleanse. I call it a cleanse. It's a clearing of energy. So if you're in a large group of people and you go home and you downregulate and And then you have some, like, you know, viral presentation of something. Usually you're clearing out a lot of energy as well.

And when you embrace it like that, it moves a lot quicker. It's a lot easier to be with because it's self. And so you're like, okay, this is just a clearing or a cleansing. I'm moving through it instead of holding on and be like, oh, my God, what's wrong with me? My immune system's out of wax. Something so I better take more vitamin. Well, you can always take more vitamin C. But I better do this.

I'm not doing this. Oh, I had too much to drink at this conference or whatever. Like, just give yourself a moment to recapite and don't, like, dig too deeply. And, again, unless it's a shout and you have no choice. But sometimes the universe is going to stop you and make you rest no matter what. So it's nice to just pay attention to those soft little voices before it gets too loud. I have some more weird. I just thought of some, like, more weird ones.

Yeah. Let's see what you got. I'm fatigued and stressed and start, like my nervous system is starting to feel on overdrive. I get this, like, frasly feeling. in this area, in my, like, eyes and my vision. If my voice starts to go, it also means that I'm stressed and fatigue. And it's not going because I have strep throat or laryngitis or, like, I spoke too loudly or I spoke too much. It just starts to go.

And I've only lost my voice, like, a handful of times or less in my entire life. But there was a moment in the last two years where, like, I lost it, like, twice in a row. And it was a, I had to wonder, you know, did I come in contact with someone that was sick? And then I realized, no, no, no, you're pushing yourself too hard. You're, you're fatigued. And there's some other, like, weird things. Like, do you guys ever feel like your skin gets sensitive when you're about to get sick? There's like little, your body's talking to you.

My body's always talking. Yeah. My scalp, actually. Your scalp's very sensitive. Yeah. So interesting. Yeah, you got to speak the language of the body. And I think the only way to learn it is to listen.

Yeah, the body keeps the score. It's a great book. Clint Kyle's coming on here. Clint Kyle's the psychedelic Christian podcast. He's got a brilliant podcast. Thank you, Clint, for being here. He says the female cycle has become overly medicalized and kind of pathologized, right? Totally unnatural. Any thoughts on that? Interestingly, I feel that more attention gets to be paid in the assessment process of a female whatever medical treatment they're seeking or even prior to a psychedelic experience or through therapeutic, their mental health therapeutic side of things, I think that those questions about how is your cycle, how is it presenting to you, what are your symptoms like? Those are questions I think get to get asked more frequently and that's what Steph and I speak about.

So I think it's a yes, Ann, because I see that there's this like hold on perimenopause and like women are hitting perimenopause at a much earlier age, which is also due to environmental stressors and pressures that are being put on the body as well and other things that we have access to that we didn't, you know, however long ago. And now we have the data points to be able to be captured because we have the technology to do that. So was it perimenopause then? We weren't living as long. I don't know. And yes, I think it's created this whole hubbub of thing that make women believe that they can't trust their bodies and that they're like entering into. to non-fertility, which isn't even the case half the time.

And honestly, when you get to menopause, you're at your wisest point of womanhood. So we get to speak on that more, too. So I think I'm at a different place because I believe it gets to be brought into the assessment process from the medical aspect and paying attention to where a woman is in their cycle and how that's going to affect the medications they're being prescribed, their treatment modalities that they're being prescribed, and how they're responding to them. Stephanie, you got a hard out coming up. Are you, you, I'm okay for the next like five minutes.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I think that like these beautiful life transitions that women go through that can definitely be very, very, very challenging for many have been pathologized and reduced to these. I always say they've been reduced to singular hormonal events. And they don't take into consideration the psycho-emotional side. And they don't take into consideration the.

existential side of medicine because there is this existential side of medicine where feeling any type of way that is disruptive or dysregulated has a very large effect on our quality of life and the relationships that we have not to others but also to ourselves. And so what I want to see is when women present with a challenge during these transitions, postpartum and postpartum depression, perimenopause, whatever it is, it's not just about suppressing their symptoms. And I think that's what it is. And it's not just about the pharmacological treatment or the medication or the prescription

that we're going to give them, but it's other tools that go beyond the pill that you're going to take or the transdermal estrogen or the cream. It's beyond that. And I think that that's what we've lost. It's this global, total holistic awareness of self where all we want to do is be productive and not be disrupted. So it's like I'm having these hot flashes. How do I make them go away?

So like just give me the prescription. And like that's where I think we've broken down and the whole system has fallen apart because it's like chicken and egg for me. It's not just that the person, the individual has to be able to go to the provider and say, you know, this is what's happening. But I want to look at this in a holistic way. It's also the provider that has a responsibility to say, like, okay, I will give you this prescription that will help manage this unpleasant feeling that you're having.

But let's, like, zoom out and look at the whole picture. And that's what's missing in medicine. So, of course, this is a, you know, all of these transitions have their, you know, medical baggage, if you will. But, like, let's not pathologize it and see it as a problem to fix. It's a rhythm to revere, right? And it's not real rhythm to revere. Rhythm to Revere.

I love it. This one's coming from Jay Blaze from Joshua Tree. He says, when was the last time science failed you, but spirit caught you? Mm. Ooh. Hmm. I know for me, my wife got diagnosed with cancer. And that, for me, Jay, was when science sort of dropped me and spirit caught me.

Because in those situations, all you really have, when everything's stripped away with models or numbers or imaging or testing, like you get lost in the science and you really get caught by the spirit. And that's what did it for me. But what say you girls, you ladies. I think what first comes up is like the pressure to, well, to do no wrong and to do no harm with patient and impatient care. and to know that you're putting your all into something and still there might be an adverse outcome or something that you're not anticipating or a complete left turn, a right turn happens.

And I think in those moments of how that has shown up for me in my career, it's to then, because it can really take the rug out from under you and get you into a very dark place. And those are the moments in which I feel that like spirit has shown up to say like, you, we have you, you have yourself, you are okay. Like this is, it's going to be okay.

You're not a failure. You're, you know, and whatever showed up for this other person, it was divinely meant to in that way and to trust that like that we're all co-collaborating in this experience together. And it has saved me a few times when I've been brought to my knees and despair because of things that have happened that were not out of my control. Yeah, wow. That's a, that's powerful for sure. sure um well there's something that i don't talk about very often but i think i need to start talking

about it really often a little bit a little bit more um my husband has a heart defect that uh you know came that developed with time um and they caught it when he was younger but in 2020 he ran the l a marathon and had a cardiac arrest and this is someone who was you know 30 years old at the time trained for a marathon, always an athlete, eats well, was on, you know, the medication that was prescribed to him to control all of the variables, was screened, you know, and basically evaluated and cleared. And yet this happened. And it was, you know, it was traumatizing.

It was difficult. He survived and he's doing, he's doing great. But here's something that like science, you know, like, pardon me, but fuck science. here. You know, like, like just fuck it. Honestly, there was like no rhyme or reason. Anyways, I can go into the details, but all this to say that like this is where spirit had to really intervene. Spirit held us. It pushed us through. It really held us because we went from the hospital into lockdown because this was COVID that hit us. Like we left the hospital and went into lockdown. And it was weird. It was weird. And we pushed right through and we were a unit and

we both like survived it. But again, like plant spirit came knocking on my door a few years later and said, you didn't process any of it. You just pushed through. And maybe that was what you needed at the time to, you know, quote unquote survive. But now it's time to get down and work, you know, and like figure out what are the emotional scars? What were the what were the repercussions of that? Because of course, of course, we were both carrying this baggage from that very stressful time. And so many lessons were learned. So many lessons I'm still learning. But it's reframed, you know, our relationship. It's reframed my relationship with life and death. You know, I've always been this person that just wants to soak up life. And I've always had this like feeling of like, I don't want this life to

end. It's so good. It's so good. But facing death. in this way, like through, like your partner is like a whole wild lesson. And, you know, F science. It has nothing to do with science in this case, you know, like science is beautiful and amazing and I'm so grateful that we have it, but it can be so reductive. And so again, bridging science with the spirit is the only way. And sometimes it's to let go of science altogether and just move straight into the spirit. And the last thing I'll say is that, you know, I was brought up Catholic and I went to an all-girls Catholic high school where we went to Mass every Tuesday. And at one point, I rejected the shit out of it.

I was very interested in world religions. I even studied world religions in university as an elective because I thought I'm fascinated by cultures. But I had a full rejection. I said I was atheist at one point. And though I don't have all the answers about what happens after, you know, we die and is, you know, is God real or whatever, Psychedelics made me believe in a source in God again. I don't subscribe to organized religion. I have my own thoughts about organized religion,

but it basically made me believe in God again. So again, you know, science only takes you so far sometimes, and you have to kind of seed the way to, or let, you know, like let spirit come in. Yeah. It's such a beautiful answer. Thank you both for taking the time to, to put that out there. Next one we got coming in is this one's coming from.

Who is this coming from? This has to be my last question. Okay, okay. Okay, we'll get a good one here. Let's continue. Let's see. This one comes from Theo. He says, if your nervous system had a love language,

what would it be? I'm not sure how to answer that, but that's what he says. Can it be asking for receiving? Um, no, I, The nervous system. Ah, just sing a soul song. Yeah.

Let me sing along to a soul song. Music. Okay. Here's a fast one for you. What was the last time you followed a symptom instead of treating it? Thank you, Desiree. Oh, that's so good. Always.

Yeah, always follow us and like allow it to. I always follow it. Yeah. I give it. Instead of treating it. Okay. And not, and first. go holistic. Like I try, you know, whatever herb or plant before I, well, I don't, you know,

I do that. Arregino oil is like the windex for me. Yeah. Ova Ursa, if you got an inkling of a UTI, which is also telling you something's out of alignment, like, or it could be that person or that partner or the stress of an environment. Like, those are little things when they're whispers. So I follow the, I let it unfold a bit. Again, when we put like a constriction around it, like try to control something when it's actually information for us. And you give it a little. bit more room to breathe and trust that, like, what's, I always say, like, what's the worst thing that's going to happen? Like, you're going to, like, in someone, you die though, right? You're going to die.

No matter what. So, like, fuck it. I always say when people are, like, so overwhelmed with life, or, you know, in the hospital setting, like, people could actually die, and that's, that is real. But otherwise, anywhere outside of, like, a critical environment, like, what's the worst that it's going to happen? Nobody's going to die. If you take, like, two extra days, to write something. You know what I'm saying? Like everything is okay. Yes, and our fight or flight's like, got to go, got to be, got to do. You're like, relax. You're like, relax. Yeah. I, I, you know, if there's like a symptom that like, you know, like, oh, I, you know, it's bothersome. Like, you could take an Advil and it can go away. Like, I think, yes. But, but I tend to do that too.

Like Jen said, like, oh, why am I feeling this way? Let me, let me feel into this. Is there a reason behind it before I just try to like mask it. So body, body aches or like persistent body aches, not just like, oh, I'm sore from my workout. But if there's like a new pain in my body, I want to figure out why am I having it. And so I will go inward and think about it. And I didn't, I didn't used to do that. I would pop the ad bill right away. Because before I was all about productivity only, I really used to be that way. I just didn't want to be burdened by anything. So I wouldn't take the time to listen to what my body was trying to communicate. Yeah, it's well said.

Stephanie, where can people find you? What are you out coming up? Denver. Denver is coming up. If you're in the Denver area, Jen and I and our good friend, Grace, bless hopefully, who's also neuroscientists, we're going to be having a deep discussion about the future of women's health. I think it's running on the banner.

You don't have to be attending the conference, the psychedelic science conference, to attend. You can just sign up. What else is going to? on Jen. We're going to be in New York the following week. If anyone's in New York and would like to link up with us, we'll be in New York the entire last week of June from the 23rd to the 29th. People can find me at beyond consulting.life and you can just send me a message through my contact form or Steph K on Instagram and there's two underscores just to make it all that

hard for you to find me. But yeah, feel free to reach out if you have any questions about honestly anything women's health neuroscience psychedelics plants um music i'm always happy to to chat and connect dots yeah thank you that's awesome jenn what can people find you what you got coming up stephan mentioned a few places you'll be but we'll be together at those in those places i'm currently in basalt colorado and i'm working on some things to potentially do here in aspen some gatherings So email me, Jennifer at irresonatehealth.com. My website is irresonatehealth.com. And my Instagram is gen.

Zuckerman is my personal. I have resonate health. We're building that out right now. So either one, you can find me. And I'm here to answer any questions. And I am also here to support participants and practitioners in the space in the realm of psychedelics and preparation. So I do a lot of medication tapering and preparing the physical vessel.

to meet some of these psychedelic molecules. I love it. Ladies and gentlemen, everybody in the chat that took time to hang out with us today. I hope you have a beautiful day. Go down to the show notes, reach out to both Stephanie and Jen. They're amazing people doing really cool stuff

and that's all we got for today, ladies and gentlemen. Have a beautiful day. Aloha. Thank you. Bye, guys. Thank you. Thank you, Jo.