TrueLife - Carina Cunha - SATORI - Unplug From the Matrix

Episode Date: March 17, 2023

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/There opposite me sits Carina Cunha. I have a concept of her; of her personality, of her accomplishments, of her appearance, of the kind of person I think she is…of course this is but an example of how I visualize concepts. However, I’ve learned that Intuition may be an angel but intellect can play the devil.  This will be a great podcast that you definitely will want to watch…Thank You Carina for speaking with me on the TrueLife podcast! https://www.satori.health/Twitter: C3OConceptshttp://linkedin.com/in/interdimensionalhighnessFounder of Satori - a self-actualization platform to help guide people towards radical self-empowerment and personal sovereignty.Prior experience includes:- Innovation consulting at FoundersIntelligence, helping clients such as BP develop new business lines and leverage startup technology to optimise their payments platform- Creating Nosy, a radically innovative loT device to protect people from air pollution- Helping scale-ups and starts-up accelerate their growth as interim CCO and CMO- Launching and managing CrimsonEducation Europe- Supporting JPMorgan's compliance withMiFID II- Developing the strategy and providing PMO support to Accenture clients- Supporting investment banking clients atCredit SuisseCurious to learn more? Hit Follow + & check out insta: @interdimensionalhighnesshttps://satori.health/ One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark, fumbling, fear. Fearist through ruins maze, lights my war cry, born from the blaze.

The poem is Angels with Rifles. The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Serafini. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the True Life podcast. We are here with an incredible guest today, the one and only Karina Kuna, and she is the founder and CEO of Saturi. She's also no stranger to startups with an incredible background in education as well as investment banking and other things. Karina, how are you doing today?

And I was going to give you more of an introduction, but I just want to jump into the actual interview because you have such an interesting life. How are you today? I'm great. It is a pleasure to be speaking with you. The pleasure is all mine. You have started up an incredible company, but before we get there, I was wondering if you would be so kind to share a little bit of your background of the circuitous route you've taken to psychedelics. Like, you started in Colombia and then you moved on from there. Can you share some of that story?

Yeah, and just to also make people raise Columbia University, not Columbia, the country. Right. Well done. You do ask that. And then I guess I do work with drugs, so there is an association. Yeah, so I actually am originally from Brazil, so yeah, that also fits. But I graduated from Columbia when I was 20 years old, so I actually finished the degree early with a major in economics and political science. And that's because I had had so much trauma growing up that I wanted to be financially independent for my parents as so as possible. So whenever I made choices in my career, it was to get that financial security.

And but then that actually didn't make me happy because when you're not being true to yourself, it's going to catch up with you. So when I was 24, no, 23, I left New York. I was actually working at a management consultant after investment banking at the time. And I went to the University of Edinburgh to do a post-quadrant degree in the psychology of different individual differences, which is basically what's his name Jordan Peterson talks about. And I really wanted to understand my mom's personality disorders, what had happened to me. And that made me so fascinated to psychology. So then for the following years, I started, I was working very much on how the decision

of decisions. So I actually have a consultancy company called Method Strategy, which is like how behaviors are change and why people do what they do. And so with that, I became the managing director of Crimson Education in Europe. And then we grew the company to a multimillion dollar P&L. in a couple of years. They are now a unicorn that was super fun. I really love the founder there. And then at that point in time, I was reaching like, I was 29 and I was like, oh my God, I haven't achieved the things that I wanted to achieve in life. So I created a company called Nosey,

and it was very ego-driven because I wanted to create the next accessory for fashion, and I was very concerned about air pollution in London, and I was three months before, I started having like flashes of people wearing face masks all around the tube. That was November, like December 2019. And so I left the company. I left Crimson and then I started nosy. And it was crazy because three months later, COVID happened. And people just thought I was really, really stupid for creating something for your nose, not for your mouth.

But at the same time, we had amazing PR. and that taught me a lot about how to grow a brand. And with the regulatory requirements that was necessary for us to make a product now in the era after COVID, it just became too costly to actually keep on going with it. And then I was doing consulting, strategy consulting, and I was working with Founders Intelligence, a really interesting company as well, that they help bridge the gap in technology between startups and corporates. And their sister company is Founders Factory.

So Founders Factory had announced a partnership with woven science to launch one psychedelic company that year in their incubation program. And so I just like literally jumped on it. I think I was on Founders Intelligence for like a total of three months before giving my notice because I was just super passionate. it. And it's crazy because I never thought I could actually speak openly about psychedelics. And they have been so instrumental in my life for the last eight years that I have helped, you know, hundreds of people in my personal life. And then being able to be public about it,

it was, you know, coming out of a closet in a way. That is, it's, there's so much there. And I'm curious, for eight years, like, you've had a relationship with psychedelics for about eight years. Did you find that you have a lot of to do some work on yourself before you could help other people with them? Oh, totally. Yes. Oh, yeah. Like, that's actually one of the reasons why I am not as optimistic about the psychedelic industry as I was when I started

because we initially launched a story as a marketplace for psychedelic retreats and integration therapist. And as I started to speak with a number of people in the industry and learn about various retreats, I realized the level of spiritual narcissism that's the industry, so much bypassing as well. And I changed the way that we operate a company to do almost like a psychedelic concierge. And I'm partnering with a retreat center in Oregon because that is going to launch in Oregon around the fall. Because I do not trust a lot of practitioners and facilitators to have the integrity with seeing the themselves to actually lead clients and not put on their baggage onto them.

We have a number of retreats that we really like, but I would say that that model of, you know, just sending people to a place without understanding what is actually happening, understanding who are going to be the facilitators is something that I'm no longer comfortable with. Yeah, it seems interesting to me to provide like the Consigneur service where, like, do you, what goes into you deciding to partner with a particular retreat? Yeah, so last year we did an outreach to a number of retreats and pretty much like most, like 99% of them said,

yes, only like one or two didn't want to pay a commission structure to us. And, you know, it was actually like speaking to the people in the team, understanding their model and then seeing what our customers like. And one of the challenges that I'm seeing also in the industry is that a lot of times people are offering really long retreats and people don't have the time to take. So we actually divided, you know, clients into categories because you have these people that are a bit older in age, which are like, I call them retreat masters. And they have a lot of money because they are already successful.

so they tend to be older. And they are going to be going to these retreats and taking that time of like one two weeks. But the people that I'm really trying to help are potentially newbies in the psychedelic. And they are a lot younger. They have less disposable income. So a number of the retreats that are out there and more famous, they tend to be too expensive for people and not provide that shortened guidance as well.

Because sometimes people just want a trip sitter. they don't want that entire yoga food experience. Yeah. So you're able to match someone's personality with something that's compatible for what they... Is this something like I would sit down and be like, here's the problems I'm kind of dealing with, here's what I'm looking for, and then you can help them find something that kind of matches exactly what it is they're looking for? Yeah.

And I would say that the reason, like, and exactly what they are looking for, because if they are like, I want to be doing tachydics in my apartment in New York. You know, like, yeah, we cannot legally do that. But it's more about that we have a one-to-one meeting with people, understand where they are at, understand their experiences, and share with them some of the options that may be available for them in their budget. I think that some misconceptions that people have is that they expect this to cost the same thing at the hotel. And they don't realize that, you know, you actually are actually,

have to pay for a facilitator and, you know, the entire structure around a company on top of just the stay, you know, like on an Airbnb, let's put it that way. And so I think that there is some education around costs as well that you need to give to people. It's interesting to me. I was listening to some of your interviews prior to this one. And it seems like, it seems for me anyway, like I have a problem with like the corporate world. And that's like my own bias, you know, like I I just don't love being treated like as I'm a number instead of a human. And that seems to be something that for whatever reason, maybe it's profit driven or maybe it's ego driven or maybe that's just the way in

which the structure of our society is built. It's kind of sad, but do you ever fear that maybe that sort of corporate model is seeping into the world of psychedelics? Or is that inevitable for that to happen? It totally is. I mean, like, if you actually look at the companies that get funded in the space, they are drug development companies. And when you think about classical psychedelics, they are great.

You know, like I have some friends that are making a synthetic ayahuasca that could be revolutionary. And I think that there is room for you to make that because ayahuasca, there is so much variability and the purging and things like that can make it so challenging. But classical psychedelics can really do the job, like, wow. And so people that are trying to change the molecules to just get a patent. Right. I mean, that's a commercial structure. It's not because you actually really need to be improving the quality of LSD, you know. And oftentimes I find that these new chemicals are not great.

Like if you actually compare some of these, the new research chemicals that you can even find on, you know, like a black market, they are a lot worse than the real deal. Yeah, a lot of the times when we begin to try and impersonate something, it's just that it's an imposter. And like all impostors, when you take the mask off, it seems to have a sinister undertone to it, you know, but it's interesting to think about because on some level we need, we need the industries to come in and help out with clinical trials and regulations on some level. And on other levels, we don't want it to be tainted.

It's just, it's interesting to be at the forefront right now. see this sort of re-emergence of this marriage between pharma and classical psychedelics. It's interesting, I think, to think about. What you've spoken about your affinity for, do you have a particular type? I know that in some of your post, you were talking that you had had some really great experiences with LSD. Is that something that you prefer that over other psychedelics? Yeah.

Let's fit it this way. I find out every psychedelic has a place in my heart. like they you know it's I don't have kids but you know like it's I

but in a sense there is just one that I get along that works really well for you yeah so let me talk about the others

before I go into I really like mushrooms in the fact that it has helped me connect with my feeling so because of trauma I was completely desensitized

to how I felt I actually would sometimes spend a couple of weeks without realizing that person was not nice to me and then I would have to have a friend tell me because I wouldn't have an emotional reaction to it. So last year when I started Satori, you know, like I could do psychedelics with a lot more frequency because it was sort of, I needed to research, like, market research.

And so I was, yeah, doing mushrooms, like one gram or so every weekend to check in with myself to see how I felt about the week. And that was really incredible in helping me have a shortened reaction to how I felt and actually be able to align my feelings until now for the first time in my life, I'm able to have, you know, people are not nice to me. I react spontaneously, like instantly. I can choose to react, but at least I have the feelings. But that was something that had been super repressed in me.

So I'm very grateful. I also don't drink alcohol. So chances are, if there is an event, mushrooms could be an alternative. But and then let's see, I find ketamine is also super interesting. I think that combining it with other psychedelics, especially mushrooms and LSD can be fascinating. I'm not a cannabis person because I have really bad anxiety, but I have heard pretty great things about combining the two. And I do think that it's also important to say that the quality of the ketamine, unless you get medical in the U.S., it's terrible, terrible.

I have had really, really bad experiences that I embarrass myself, expecting it to be the same quality that you would get in Europe. and the American one, it wasn't, you know, like you have something, you go into a chaos, and it's not a chemical, because you're actually on a research chemical, because that is completely, so the quality in America of substances has been pretty terrible. And then, let's see, ayahuasca, I mean, it cured my extinction crisis. When I was younger, I really was afraid of dying, and I wanted to see what happened after you die. and I have taken pretty large doses of ayahuasca and it showed me everything and I felt like

super connected to source. That said, I'm not as big of a fan of ayahuasca as a lot of the people in the psychedelic world because again, the variability of the brew, I would say that half of ayahuasca experiences have had good brews, bad bruise. And so sometimes if the brew is not done correctly, you may not see anything. Then there is that shamanic culture that is involved, which can also impact so much of your experience. And I find that depending of the culture, I really like the Yanawa in Brazil, but the Shepin culture can be a lot of work. You know, like it's very heavy. So unless you have a lot of trauma that you're trying to deal with, you know, like or something like a substance addiction,

may not be the best thing for you to do if you're just starting your journey with psychedelics. And I think that also when I see the quality of the ayahuasca, it doesn't travel as well as, you know, like some of the more, let's say, pharmaceutical psychedelics. And so I also find that the quality outside of South America can be quite not as great. And so I think that ayahuasca, and when I analyze it, it's a great experience, yes, but there is a lot of negatives as well, you know, especially from health risks, because if you're throwing up a lot and you have low blood sugar levels,

then potential drug interactions. So while the experience can be transformational, I don't necessarily think that everyone, that is the best pass for you to get to that transformative place. And I do believe that you can achieve pretty similar experiences in very large doses of mushrooms or LSD. Then, yeah, DMT is also another one that is quite interesting to me. I mean, we're just blasted off into a different name.

I actually volunteered to get intravenous DMT with the Imperial College of Research Study, but I was moving to L.A. and so I wasn't able to part of the study. So, I mean, it's fascinating. I do think that it has fewer therapeutic effects than ayahuasca because you're busted off into a different dimension. So how much information you're able to retain is very small. And then also having a foot in one dimension and a footing yourself, which you're able to do as ayahuasca,

allows you to bring back the issues that you want to explore. Whereas with the MT are just like, cosmic hyperspace multidimation. You know, so it's, yeah. 5MEO, the M-T, I only did at once and I feel that it wasn't a large enough those for me to have a complete opinion but I just felt that I was being hugged by the universe

and some ball of love. Then LSD. LSD, yeah, I love it because I feel that my brain is connected to a supercomputer. And if you actually look at the brain skins, your brain is never more active than on LSD. Every part of it is talking to each other. And at the same time, different mushrooms is not as emotional.

So you're able to be approaching a lot of very challenging situations without having the emotional load. If I have a bad mindset and I go into mushrooms, I can actually have an experience that almost feels like an MDMA come down. but if I have a bad mind, I'm dealing with a problem in LSD, I'm not going to have that pain. I'm going to just see the problem so clearly from so many directions and actually be able to align my actions and thoughts towards it. And then if you actually look at studies, it's the one that produces the most neuroplasticity.

And then, you know, like for me when I was younger and I was really struggling in bad relationships, and I didn't, I, and was meaning in my life, you know, when I was in corporate, if I did a weekend, I would just do a large dose of LSD in my room, all dark, I would be thinking about the nature of reality, and I would came up with these theories that about time, quantum mechanics, that now people are just writing research articles, and I'm like, fuckers, you know, like diagram drawn.

Obviously, I cannot put the time to prove them, but yeah, a lot of these metaphysical ideas as well, I came, became completely true and logical to me under that state. And then you realize that if you're going

on the peak of, so the peak of the LSD experience, if you do a high doses, you cannot really do much and you're just an observer, but as you're coming down from the peak, it feels that you're really at a level that is very connected to source. And each step that you, each hour, you're coming down, almost like the staircase of whatever source for that. And then as you come down, you are able to bring back more of your human experiences into that.

And so as each hour post-peak comes, you're able to deal with different levels of problems. and also the first hour is like super spiritual problem, like existential and then like some personal problems and then the work problems. So you have, I like the lengths of time as well because it's longer the mushrooms, that then you're actually able to access a lot of different things and process more. Because with mushrooms or ayahuasca, you have much smaller trips, which means that you need to choose what's what problem I'm dealing with tonight. Whereas with LSD, you have different different. layers. That is really well said. I admire the way in which you explained it.

I, man, it makes me think. It almost seems like you can thoroughly understand the higher functioning of neuroplasticity, the way you explain, like coming down a staircase, and like you're talking about higher order, you have spiritual and physical and emotional. It's interesting. It's almost like you can see or feel the different parts of the brain

lighting up when you're in those different stages. It's fascinating. me. Do you think that... I'm sorry. I wanted to say that one more thing that happens to me, but it doesn't happen to everyone on LSD that I freaking love is that I can see music, but a lot of people talk about synesthesia, which is the colors, but I actually have another level of synesthesia, which I see the notes of music on the air, depending of the dose that I take. So, like, if you play sweet child of mine on high doses of LSD, you can actually see the guitar riffs in the air, and I'm like, if the,

If you don't understand what neuroplasticity is, and if you don't, you can literally see how your brain is connected and how different parts are interacting with each other, which for me is phenomenal. You know, like you can see your brain functioning, basically. Yeah, I think you can see concepts, but more than that, you can, it leads me to this idea that you don't really learn anything, but knowledge is revealed to you. And I think in certain states, like you, whether it's you writing about, you know, some sort of futuristic function of time or the nature of time or, you know, some sort of mechanics or something like that, I think that you can actually have information revealed to you. And if you go back and you read the Homeric verses or you go back and you read literature or understand some of these ancient sort of text, like I think they're explaining the same thing. They're explaining that knowledge is revealed to you. And it seems to me in some ways the way we're teaching people today, like you go to school to learn from somebody else,

but that's just someone else's experience. I think taking, you know, responsibly taking or exploring different states of awareness or different states of consciousness really allow you to learn the lessons of life. What do you think about that? Totally. I mean, are we even? learning, right? Because in, if you're depending of like if you want to go metaphysical or if you want to go scientific, you can make the argument that the brain is just a receptor of information.

And I had a bit of a spiritual awakening as well, which I was in very much like, you know, I believe that there is that quantum entanglement and your brain is a receptor of information. And then I met my twin flame, which I didn't, I hated that concept. And then once I, like, I actually met a person that I, once I looked into his eyes, I started remembering past lives with him. And then I was like, what the fuck? And that completely took my ground away for a few months because I never had access that. So I did explore the nature of consciousness from the meta level,

but I hadn't had those very spiritual experiences in the sense of being connected to the soul, you know, like I stated in the more analytical side of it. And when that came, I started following a lot of the work of people, for example, like Dolores Cannon, like Abraham and Hicks trying to understand a little bit of like how your cautiousness is manifested. And when you actually think about it, we are just almost loading a video game. Like whenever we are interacting, anything that is not in our awareness pretty much doesn't exist for you. And we are just co-manifesting our reality. Daniel Pinched Back, which is a friend life, a pretty good article on that.

and the yeah so I think that when you actually say is information reviewed to us or do we actually learn I feel that you need to break down your higher self which knows everything all the time and then the human experience which if you follow the Lord's Ken's work then you have basically created a contract to place certain experiences as a human for your soul to learn. And in that sense, you know, it's, I mean, it just becomes a nominclature type of thing where it's like, is you, is you like making the cognitive leaps in a biological brain, something that you have created yourself or is the fact that that's being allowed to you something that your higher self is allowing to come to you.

I don't know. We could have an entire hour talking about this. Yeah, it's mind-blowing to me. I spend a lot of time in different states of consciousness and I really enjoy, I really enjoy being alone and thinking about different things like that. Of course, I love my family and relationships. ships, and it just, it speaks to the bigger picture of what we are, as much as who we are. Like, I've been spending a lot of time thinking about that we are everyone.

Like, you don't really come into this world. You kind of come out of it. And when you do that, I think you begin to see like a paradigm shift. And maybe that's what psychedelics do for some people and maybe different psychedelics do it in different ways. But I'm curious to get your opinion. Do you think that what we're going through right now is a giant shift in society? Consciousness or societal awareness maybe?

Yes. And have you been following the like five-dimation New Earth movement? No, I haven't. I'm going to write it down. What is it? Yeah, that's also something that after I had that like past life remembrance, I was like, what the F? and then I started doing this.

So Diana Cooper has really good work on this. So it's this theory. that the earth is a living organism, and the earth has been living, functioning on 3D reality for a number of years, et cetera, and that now the earth is evolving to become a five-dimensional to evolve to a five-dimensional state. And a fourth dimension is time, so, you know, like whatever is above time. and that these higher awareness and spiritual awakenings that is happening at more frequency for us all is people actually waking up to the, you know, veil of lost, like veil of amnesia that we have as an existence.

And then when you started looking at Diana Cooper's work and then Dolores Cannon, they approached the same topic from different angles. And the series that both of these have is that apparently the Earth is a school, and there are a bunch of planets that are schools in the system. And we are one of the few, I think we are the only planet where you don't actually remember your connection to source, and that you have to find it within your life, which makes it the toughest school in the entire universe. And then there is a lot of stuff about aliens as well, which, again, when I started reading about that, like what the fuck. But then it started, you know, like, you start seeing that if you actually investigate it,

it feels somewhat true in your heart. You cannot really pinpoint it. And, yeah, I mean, like, what's to say that it doesn't, that something like this cannot exist in existence higher than ours? because I always love to think about humans as the analogy of that big elephant, you know, like where you have a blind person and they are touching the tail. Right, different parts of them. Yeah, so when I was younger, the reason why I decided to initially go to psychology

is that I was having really bad existential crisis at the time. And I always, when I was younger, I thought about getting a degree in quantum physics and I really wanted to understand the nature of reality. But I figured out that if I have a 3D brain, I'm not going to be able to fully understand something at higher dimensions than me because I'm just not going to have access to the tools that are required to understand something bigger than me. So then when I went to psychology, it was that I wanted the best that I could do was understand the functions, understand my experience of the reality.

So if at least I understood how humans are approaching reality, then it would allow me to have a more complete picture. And I don't know, like there is quite a lot there, and some of this stuff is going to be very woo-hoo for people. And I do take everything with a grain of salt. But, you know, like it makes, I rather read one of these things that reads like a fantasy novel than hear about Trump on the news or something. Of course. Yeah, it's garbage. Let me ask you this one. So in the world of psychedelics, there's been for quite some time this idea of ego death or ego dissolution, but might it be a better way to describe it as alternative ego functioning? Like maybe that's what's happening. If we talk about awakening or we talk about, you know, emerging as a different type of being, doesn't it make more sense that like nothing's really dying in your brain, but the function of your brain is changing? I think that fits into your model of from,

3D to 5D. And why wouldn't it be like that way? If we have the prefrontal cortex, it's like the newest part and it's changing shapes and those dendritic spines moving back and forth, why wouldn't the ego be transforming from something that only sees us into evolving into something that sees everybody? Doesn't it make more sense to, this is just me kind of being wishful thinking, but doesn't it make more sense that it's not ego death,

but it's alternative ego functioning? Yeah, I hear what you're saying. And I almost would like to split it into two goals. Yeah, please. Because when I hear about ego dust is, you know, like if you experience that in ketamine, high doses of mushrooms, acid, etc., is basically your human ego taking, not existing. So then you are just connecting to a higher self. And so I think that the first time that you experienced that and you're, able to realize that you exist beyond your personality, your thoughts, your body is quite

transformational. And I do hear, I do think that the ego dust is fitting for, to describe that experience. What I'm hearing from you is the transformative nature, which is not an experience, is actually a process. So I would say that what you're saying is just more, evolution after you have experienced ego deaths. Yeah, that makes sense. It's interesting to think about experience versus process. Can you speak more about, like, what do you think is the difference between a psychedelic experience and the process that happens after a psychedelic experience?

Yeah, I think that the experience can just take blinders off your eyes. And it really depends on know what people bring into the container. I guess you can see I'm a very analytical person. So my mind goes like every direction. But there are some people that are tend to be just more. I actually notice a relationship with personality types and different like experiences. So people that tend to be primarily censors, they oftentimes look more towards things.

in the past in their psychedelic experience and they often will be analyzing situations and things to a much greater degree and not go as much into the theories. And they sometimes can have more somatic experiences as well.

These are the things that I experience in my body at a time and really be like, oh my God, they can feel of myself and whereas intuitive types, they tend to go more into the abstract theories. And then when we are looking at what you're going to have in the psychedelic experience, if you have a lot of trauma, you may spend most of the psychedelic experience just dealing with the pain and trying to make sense of what happened to you and then connecting the dots, you know,

and then trying to make an action plan for your life. So it's almost like Maslow's Pyramids of Needs where you have safety and shelter in the bottom. and then you have all of the other layers on the top with self-actualization, you know, being at the very highest. And so if you're still trying to deal with your safety and feelings and everything in the middle layers, you're going to be approaching psychedelics there.

And so you need to deal with, you know, you need for recognition, social acceptance, etc., before I think you're going to be really considering the thoughts of the universe, because those are going to come right before for you in the pyramids. So what I have seen with people is that the more they approach psychedelics, the more they start getting this expansion of consciousness. So as people integrate, you basically need to understand where in the pyramid they are

and provide them with support to make changes in their lives or deal with the problems at the level that they are, because they are not going to be able to go to the top. If, like, for example, they are in an abusive household, having to deal with, you know, like a drunken husband, they will be trying to solve that problem first after the psychedelic experience, before they are like, oh, my God, we are all connected.

You know, planet Earth is evolving. Like, let me. unleash my psychic abilities. That would be a great infographic. If you had Mazel's hierarchy of needs, and then you could put Karina's hierarchy of psychedelics, like right next to it and have it like, that would be kind of sweet.

You know, isn't it, it seems fascinating, but also incredibly sad to me, that sometimes people are faced with trauma in their childhood, and they continue to fight that trauma their entire life. I think that that is one of the beautiful things about psychedelics, is that maybe it gives people either the courage to face that problem internally instead of putting a band-aid on it and coping with it. I'm curious, do you think the purpose of trauma?

Let me put it this way. I think it's been my experience that the purpose of trauma is because there's something bigger than you that believes you should go through that trauma because you're strong enough to come out the other side and then help other people through it. What do you think the purpose of trauma might be? Yeah, I actually wrote an article about that, that we did a rebranding on the website and I haven't republished.

But I experienced a lot of trauma in my life. Like I have been in coma before because of like I have a sugar intolerance. I was studied by John Hopkins as a kid and had that back surgery. You know, that I have like a metal bar on my back and beyond like stuff with a borderline narcissistic mom. That was very, yeah, very, very bad. So I know trauma very well. And for me, trauma indeed is a way for me to connect deeper with myself, understand things from a perspective that I would not otherwise have been able to access

and to be able to help others that may not necessarily have the tools to deal with that. So I'm grateful for the traumas that I have. have had, but it has been a long process of doing that. This being said, I do find that there is a lot of people in the victimization mindset, and I find that some of them actually display characteristics similar to a cluster B personality type of borderline and narcissism. You have a type of narcissism that is called covert narcissism. Usually people use their vulnerability.

to try to manipulate you. And these are the ones that are very difficult to spot because they are not like a typical narcissist, but they are basically going to trauma bond with you. And I find that some of these people need a trauma because it becomes an excuse for them to not try to achieve in life. And then for them to also not need to work hard because then they are trying to,

they are getting other people to feel sorry for them. And so, and then there, there is the other angle of the psychedelic industry, which I'm not a fan of, is that I find that so many people profit from you being stuck in a healing cycle. Yeah, totally. And if you think about it, some of the incentives are not there for them to, for a coach, to stop coaching you, you know, for you to stop going to that shaman. So I find that a lot of times people, rather than just,

be like, my life is good. Let me enjoy it. Let me be grateful. They are like, I have a problem to solve. You know, like, and then they start, they may not have that narcissistic tendency. But they are allowing the need for them to constantly be in a work mode, prevent them from actually being happy and fulfilled and grateful in life. because if you find problems, we always have stuff to fix.

But there is also ruin life for you to just, you know, live life with joy and play rather than always needing to be doing work on yourself and take a little bit of that load. I'm not saying for you not to be a nice person and to not have a gross mindset and not to listen to the universe when it's giving you lessons. but you know like you don't need to be going to the jungle every like every I don't know like not the jungle is not a good example because there is a limitation on how often you can go there but there are people that go to ayahuasca circles every other weekend and I'm like guys like it's what what are you doing like maybe if you just enjoy life a little bit it wouldn't be a problem

yeah it's interesting I heard a quote one time that makes me think of that scenario. And that, that quote was, we got good news and bad news. The good news is we have plenty of medicine. The bad news is the medicine doesn't work. And it makes me think of people that just decide to take the medicine regardless of whatever it is, you know, whether it's a substance or whether it is an emotional relationship. They take it, but it never works because they don't, they don't really want it to. And that brings me to this other idea. You know, it's, it seems that, like, whether it's the world of finance, maybe the world of psychedelics, but definitely the world of medicine,

we're so busy focusing on sick people, and it seems we're so busy focusing on debt, like, wouldn't the world be a little bit better if we focused on, like, brains that work really well instead of brains that don't work that well? And, like, wouldn't the byproduct of studying highly effective brains and medicine and living a great life, wouldn't that effectively end up curing, like,

a lot of the problems for sick people? Like, if you study what works really well, then you'll be able to go and find out, what doesn't work. But it seems like our models are wrong. It seems like we want to study the brain that has dementia. We want to study all these problems in the brain. But I think if you, I think we're looking at it the wrong way. Does that kind of make sense or is that just too out there? No, I hear you. And I think that the problem that we have in our society is that due to human evolution, we have a much greater incentive to actually prevent a loss than receive a gain

psychological studies around us. And then that translates to the entire incentive structure of PCs and is kind of like the idea of a startup, like a startup needs to be a painkiller rather than a vitamin. So if you, I totally hear you. I just find that it's a problem about how we have intrinsically being our brain's work with, you know, like a huge part of the brain that impacts our behaviors is the amygdala, the reptilian brain. And that's one of the things that is amazing with psychedelics, that you for the first time are able to access the amygdala while have the rational thoughts of your pre-forter cortex at the same time. But most often, people don't have that. the medulla is just there to try to protect you. When you think about the biological factors of our body,

we have been built to prevent deaths, not to achieve happiness. And so when you actually look at natural selection, there is a benefit for us to never be satisfied, which, because if you're ever, if you are a person that is always satisfied, you're not going to try to optimize yourself and then somebody else is going to evolve. So that the satisfaction with life is something that is intrinsic to when you're creating a system where natural selection is the primary mode for evolution.

Actually, like a couple of years ago, before my spiritual awakening, I was writing a lot about, I do have a book that I eventually want to write called Being Human and Looking Into the 4P, So Psychology, Philosophy, Physics and Psychedelics, or yeah, physics, have a lot of psychology and psychedelics because that actually was the order of how I started approaching them. And I do think that we do have some, while a lot of these ideas are great, I also see limitations on just the neurological structures of the right. And so I make an argument where, you know, while it's really great when you tell people, like, let's save the planet, you know, like, do your part, if that person, again, is in the Mezzlo's pyramids of need right in the bottom, and them, like, they don't even have the head space to not throw trash in a river, you know, like I went to Myanmar, and it was a local that polluted most of the place. And so with all of these things, I do think that we need to consider limitations on the very fact that we are running these animalistic processors and sometimes give even credit to people that are trying their best.

And sometimes I feel that part of being human and involved humans often actually overcoming our biology. a biological nature may say that we are here, and then our mind makes us do something better. And so back to the original question as to we be looking at studying a good brain versus a bad brain. Yes, I think that we're doing a bit of work on that. But do I see this being something that is going to be done at a wider societal level? No, because people profit so much more from... curing, you know, from painkillers and vitamins. It makes me sad.

I'm sorry. To bring a nihilistic perspective. It's pretty true. But it doesn't mean that we can't begin the work in the foreground. It doesn't mean that we can't begin creating something now that could actually move us in that direction. And sometimes a spark is enough to start a forest fire, I think. You know, and by the way, like, I do think that individual. can achieve that. I just don't necessarily, I just think that like, for example, at a large

corporate structure, you know, it's like, you have an amazing individual psychedelic center that is doing phenomenal, groundbreaking work into elevating human consciousness, but you're not going to expect the pharmaceutical companies to get behind that. So I think you only... Yeah, exactly. So I think that's... We and I can be almost like, you know, working on the indie side of the industry and then like, there are people doing this work, though. Yeah, it's fascinating to me. You know, when we talk about, when we talk about the world changing,

it seems to me that, you know, the people that are paying attention, the rate of change is so fast. And when you look at corporate structures, corporate structures seem to me to be like the skin of a snake and we are the snake and we're shedding that. When you look at people that are doing startups, When you look at like chat GPT or all this new technology coming out, it seems it's just like pushing away the middleman and allowing the individual to rise up and take the place of a corporation.

You know, if you look at the way Rogan and Jamie can outperform Fox News and seeing it, if you look at the way Karina can start, you know, nosy or start something that can take the place of a giant corporation. And you can build a startup and then sell it and then start something else. It just seems to me that is the path, on which we're moving towards. And that's a setup for my question. And the question is,

do you think there's a race between technology and biology? When you look at like brain chips and people trying to fix the body in this way to get rid of our animalistic urges, that's one way of it. But then you look at natural psychedelics that seem to be evolving the brain in another way. It seems to me like there's this weird sort of race happening.

I'm wondering if you see it as a race or do you see it as something that's working together? That's a very good question. I think that my answer before I had, you know, a bit of the spiritual awakening last year would be, yeah, technology is important, you know, like it's going to bridge the gap in our biology and allow us to have that access because I'm like, our biology can only work so much. But then after that, and after I started realizing that I think that there is incentive structures in our society to actually keep us from that amnesia of the veil for getting

our connection to source. And then I had crazy spiritual experiences that were not, I wasn't done any psychedelics. I started like channeling entities and things like that. And part of that came to me when I have been just leaving a very clean day. diet. And so I do think that we don't understand the functionality of the human body above the dimensions that our mind can cognitively think so. But the more you start going to spirituality, you realize, you know, that we have different levels to your soul and to your energetic fields. And I do think that this is not like main. extreme knowledge and I just think that some of that technology that you see in, let's say,

treated culture is in conflict with some of that other technology and it can distract you from harnessing the potential that you have into in your spiritual side. So, you know, I was one of the people that took the vaccine because I was in the UK. I had to. I would be in corporate. But looking back, I would not have wanted to take the vaccine after I had my spiritual awakening. So I know I can be super controversial here, but because I don't necessarily know how it's changing my genetic structure. And at the time, because I had an experience, you know, like I would put psychedelics, yeah, they open my consciousness, et cetera, but I'm like, it's separate.

And then I hadn't experienced the full vision of what my spirit is, even though I understood consciousness, but I didn't understand the spirituality. Now that I understand the spirituality, I'm a lot more cautious about technology using that sense because I do think that there is a movement to prevent awakening from large corporations because I do think. that it's not in the incentive structure. And it's kind of like that same repression of consciousness that you saw with Nixon when he banned LSD. And it's one of the reasons why I actually made a, I just got on TikTok, I'm still trying to figure it out the platform. But I made a video about how in the U.S. I have tried 10 different sources of LSD and everything is fake. and I don't think that that's worse than people not being able to access LSD

because if a person doesn't know what they're actually looking for, they're going to have this research chemical that is just going to give individuals and not actually expand their mind and then they're going to stop there. And so I never had that in any other country in the world, by the way. So I'm like, is that some type of...

And I never thought about conspiracy theories, before. I'm like, is that some type of perverse way of preventing people from accessing something that can, within the night, change your entire worldview? Because I do find that the LSD is a lot faster than other substances for each of question society because you have that, you know, that time period. And, you know, mushrooms, because it's more emotional, it's going to focus more on individual self and there is more work. But with LSD, if you don't have to be, you know, have a lot of trauma and you're just questioning society. You take that and you're like, oh, my God, everything is wrong.

Yeah. Yeah, there's a large part of that. That's true. It's interesting that, you know, you see San Francisco go from like the mecca of LSD, the mecca of consciousness shifting ideas to like, just a horrible, I don't want to say horrible, but I'm sure it's just not the same as it was probably. Yeah. I lived in San Francisco for high school. I didn't love it.

I didn't love it. That's funny. Yeah, exactly. Why do you think that the quality is so much better in other countries? I mean, in the UK, I think we would get probably from the Netherlands. And then the Netherlands just has incredible quality. what I have noticed with them you know let's say the black market here is that I think that people are just trying to make a profit yeah absolutely and you know and then I actually I have had people like I had this guy tried to tell me and I'm just being cautious of other words that I use being like we only use the gel tabs because these gel tabs are going to provide you a much better precision for the amount that you're going to have in it.

And I'm like, okay, I don't care between zero, like, point. Because the doses of, like, let's say, LSD is like 100, 100 to 150 or 200, you know, like so it's in 100. So I don't care about the procedure of like five, you know. But then what I noticed is that this is a distraction, is a tactic for people to actually distract you from the fact that they're not even selling the real compound at all. So I saw that as a marketing tool that is almost like the magician's trick, oh, let me talk about this because I'm not actually even selling the real stuff here.

You know, like when I have gotten a real LSD, it's not on a gel tab. I never actually have seen real LSD on a gel tab. And the person is not going to be talking about the difference of like five, which is completely irrelevant on your trip. or like what does our ketamine or as ketamine like in in Europe you just have ketamine and it's great

it's amazing to me Karina I'm having a great time talking to you I know I'm getting close to my hour but what tell me a little bit more about Satori before we end up closing it here like what what do you think is the best thing that you've learned so far

by starting this I would need another hour for that. I think from my side, I really understood the dynamics of the psychedelic industry. And in the beginning, I was very naive because I tend to like to see the good in every person. And so I actually got caught by a lot of, like in the traps of a lot of spiritual narcissism. And so I think that what it really has taught me is how to be a very discerning. And that's something that I wish I want to recommend for every person. It's like, because you're in a very vulnerable space when you're treating trauma, healing, when you're learning about things that seem beyond real, you're going to really think that that person is going to be there to help you and have the best intentions.

But I see that there is a lot of, there is more ego in the psychedelic industry than I have seen in any other years, which is something that is not making. me love it and wants to be very protective of who do I work with. Yeah. It's the cosmic joke, right? Like you think you're getting away from all of that stuff. And then there it is right in front of you. Yeah. Yeah.

It's like the most ego I have seen in those industries in the psychedelics industry. So I do want people to be cautious of who they trust. right it's so amazing what are you planning on it seems like that you move quite around a bit so is sotori based out of the uk or is it is it just is it something that anybody in the world can get a hold of and then we we do everything online um and i'm actually i moved to l.a so i'm in Venice right now because yeah the market is just so much more well-developed in the u.s and then we also work with clients one-to-one depending on their needs. And so, yeah, the best way to go about it is just go to the website, book a call.

And then, like, me or my team is going to learn more about you. And then we started going from there. So it's just about making that all of the information I shared today actually relevant for that person. And so that's like the best place. if someone wanted to find you the best place for them to do, that would be to go to the website? Yeah, exactly. And then if people want to follow me, I post on Instagram, or LinkedIn, so it's interdimensional

highness on both. That's awesome. Can you send me the information or the article that you spoke about where the prefrontal cortex is talking to the amygdala? I think it's fascinating, and I would love to learn more about that. Yeah, of course. Okay. Before I let you go, do you have any other events coming up and we've already spoken? People can find you. So what events do you have coming up and what are you excited about? I do. So I need to jump because I'm already. Yeah, I know.

But I am actually speaking at the mind, the sound mind movement summit next week, next weekend. So it's, This one. Nice. So if you guys, I'm not good at this. If you guys, no, it's good. We can see. Perfect. It's amazing.

It's to raise all the procedures. We're going to go for brain research. Yeah, anyway, we can go in a loophole about that. But it's going to be an amazing DJ and really interesting talks about mental health. Okay. Karina, thank you so much for your time. I know you got to go. I hope you have a fantastic day.

and I'm really thankful that you spent a little bit of time with us in my audience today. I learned a lot and I hope everybody else did. Reach out to her. All the links will be in the show notes. Karina, I'll let you get out of here. Have an awesome day. Bye. Aloha.

Hello.