TrueLife - Clint Kyles - Our Spiritual Nature

Episode Date: September 7, 2023

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/http://linkedin.com/in/clint-kyles-6a99481bahttps://open.spotify.com/show/5FKiZXiPuTV7KOcVsmS2zq?si=xFlsEJZ8Qm2OxKVHAmpQYgExploring the intersection of faith & psychedelics with Clint Kyle’s…Host of The Psychedelic Christian Podcast…. One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark, fumbling, fear. Hears through ruins maze, lights my war cry, born from the blaze.

The poem is Angels with Rifles, the track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Seraphini. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm so stoked to see you. I'm so happy you're here today. I hope the world is smiling upon you. I hope if you're having a tough day, you just decided to start laughing at it, because, you know what beautiful things happen and you got to be in the right frame of mind and i hope this podcast is going to be a beautiful one for you got a great guest for you today the one and only clint

kiles we talk a lot about the the world of psychedelics spirituality and the intersection of them and our conversations tend to go all over the board but i find them to be very fascinating and i really love the way in which clint finds ways to weave the thread of reality through the different ideas we talk about so clint has How's it going today, my friend? It's going great, man. But, you know, speaking of taking things in stride and having joy, you know, in the face of challenges, you know, this morning I got to, you know, unbolt my toilet from the floor and set it aside. And so we can talk about all these ethereal things.

But, you know, we all still live down here in this grungy, you know, hands-on world. And that's a beautiful thing, too, you know. So, yeah, explore the ethereal, but, you know, keep your body in mind also tethered to the humble origins of our fleshly, you know, creations. Yeah, that's well said. Keep your head in the clouds, with your feet on the ground. Yeah, I've heard it said that way. There's always something pulling you back to reality, and that's necessary. It's fun to pontificate and think about the world around.

us, but the world calls and there's real responsibilities and there's taking care of your family and there is a lot of things happening. So, you know, and it's interesting the way we explain things through language and how language has played a part in the way we communicate, the way we see things, the way we model reality. You had an interesting idea about language. We were talking about before the show. Maybe you could tell the people about that. Yeah, I had a conversation last night with a friend. So a little recap. So my,

another interesting tangent that we can go down later. My priest just started a Wednesday night, adult study on the Apocrypha. So, so we're studying, we're studying those intertestamental, you know, Jewish and Christian writings that,

for whatever reason, didn't get, you know, placed in the canon of scripture. So, but anyway, I, in the midst of talking about that, um, afterward I had a conversation, uh, with a local friend and they brought up the topic of, of language and how, how much of a hurdle that still is in our lives, uh, both at as individuals. Uh, you know, right now, you and I are conveying thoughts through vibrations that we make with our mouth and they go into your ear and they vibrate. But somehow, I'm able to give you enough information that you can reconstruct an idea of what I'm explaining in your own mind. And to a

large degree, you know, it comes across fairly accurately. So anyone who's familiar with the Bible is probably familiar with the story of the Tower of Babel. So at that point in human history, were led to understand that everyone spoke a common language. And so people were advancing on a rapid level almost to the degree to which it seems we are now, having such wide-ranging public discourse across the world through means such as you and I are using today. So the ability for humans to create amazing, powerful, beautiful, and also very destructive things is empowered by our ability to communicate. And so apparently they were on such a high level of technology and communication that God saw

fit that this could go awry. And so he introduced confusion amongst the languages. And so that put a pretty significant halt. I mean, that's almost like. turning off the internet today. Right. And I mean, if you can't even communicate with your spouse or your next door neighbor, imagine what kind of chaos, confusion, and almost like a total societal reset that produces. It's our understanding that's what those people experienced. And so people began to reassociate probably in regards to their tribe, their family, you know, their place of origin, you know, so there was some familiarity. And over time, languages were reconstructed and societies were rebuilt.

But we still suffer from that curse or intervention, if you will. So it's my understanding, you know, to a large degree, the lack of empathy and the inability to communicate with, other nations. So take in the United States, for example, where you and I live, it appears that we have tensions right now with places like Russia and places like China. How much of that is largely due to our inability to communicate, you know, our inability to understand humor, nuance, you know, subtleties in speech that you and I have no problem understanding because we, we come from a common heritage, culture, and language. So we're still kind of living under that intervention to some degree. And this may lead into something else you and I want to discuss, like how AI and technology are drawing us closer together and giving us, equipping us with the ability to make positive or negative change very rapidly.

So when you can communicate ideas over space and time instantly, that can be used for great good and it can be used for great deal. And so I don't know. I'll just stop right there. We can flesh that out more because at some point I would like to introduce the topic that not only is our language a barrier to our communication, but at some point in the future, might language even be a, a hindrance to communication. If that makes any sense. Yeah, let's figure that out. I would like to address a little bit in the beginning.

I think the story, the lessons that I have taken away from the Tower of Babel is fascinating as well. It's what a great way to divide the world by stopping them from communicating. You know, the same way we do in prisons when we put people in cells, we don't allow them to talk to each other. If we really want to punish somebody, we put them in isolation. You know, it's not uncommon to read stories of olden times when they would cut the tongues out of liars or thieves so they couldn't speak to themselves. And, you know, there's the anybody who's read about strategy in prison understands the prisoner's dilemma where, you know, if you and I go to prison or we get, accused of a crime. If I, the, the cops come to you and play good cop, bad cop.

Oh, George Clint ratted on you. But if you tell him right now, then you go free and he goes to jail. Or vice versa to you. The only way out of that particular dilemma is for us both just to not say anything. So this idea of speech, this idea of communicating, I think is the, at the foundation of all of our problems. Another example that I learned moving from the West Coast of the United States to Hawaii, where there's all these different cultures is that in the Eastern cultures, there's no sarcasm.

You know, sarcasm is something that was made in the West. So if you say something sarcastic to someone of, to a lot of people in a different Asian culture, they look at you like you're crazy. When you have this joke going on that you have in your mind, but what you're really doing is just misconstrueing the facts. And that's just one example of the way. way language gets misconstrued. So yeah, I really think that the lack of our ability to communicate effectively is at the root of so many of our problems. It's fascinating to think about. But man,

maybe you can speak a little bit more on the last part of that topic about maybe you can speak a little bit more to what you finished off with there. Yeah. So let's assume we reach a point in the future where we share a common language, we share a common ability to understand sarcasm, understand humor, understand the emotions behind our words, the nuances, and yet still, we're still doing that same thing, where I make vibrations with my mouth, and they vibrate your eardrum. then at that point language itself is an impediment to me conveying the pure potency of the idea to you

what if what if i mean we all recognize i think we do i think even science confirms this and even if it doesn't we've all felt it in our own living experience we've all experience to some small degree, telepathy or knowing when someone is staring at you behind your back or the fact that your dog knows you're on your way home, whether, you know, regardless of what time of day it is, you know, the dog, for whatever reason, for five minutes before you arrive, your partner notices the dog goes and sits by the front door, right, waits on you. They know you're coming. So, And a quick side note, anyone who's investigated the work of Rupert Sheldrake, Dr. Rupert Sheldrake, he has, he's written on that extensively.

I've done a lot of study time. So it's, I'm not saying we fully understand it, but the phenomenon exists and can be observed in real time. Okay, so I'm sorry, go ahead. Go ahead. If you have a question. but where I was going with that was I think where you wanted me to go and I got sidetracked.

No, it's perfect. This is perfect. At some point, maybe, or maybe not, wouldn't it be, at least for the purposes of communication, wouldn't it be awesome if we could communicate ideas without the blunt tool

of language? Okay. How about the evolution of language? Like we are evolving right now. And as you're talking about this, I want to try to, I'm just spitballing here. But it seems to me that the same, okay, let me try to gather my thoughts. Let's think about the way in which we learn language in the Western tradition, the alphabet. The very building block of the alphabet is a letter.

A letter is part of a word. A word is part of a sentence. A sentence is part of a paragraph. A paragraph is part of a story. A story is part of a book. A book is part of something larger. So this is one linear way we're beginning to speak. What if as a humankind we're just learning about language?

This is one modality. Speech is one modality. Now let's look at what's happening with images right now in AI. If I want to create an image, I can go in and find templates in Adobe Premiere or or pick your Canva, whatever you're looking at. Now you can go and find templates. Okay, a template is sort of like a letter. I can stream together these templates and put them together in a sentence.

If I stream together five different templates, now I'm telling a story through imagery. If I take that imagery and then I put the language to it, now I'm communicating to you on multiple modalities. I'm showing you something. I'm giving you hearing. And on some level, those two things together are bringing about emotion. So it's an evolution of language. It's this sort of threading of all the modalities that bring together better understanding.

And if we just pan back a little bit and think of ourselves in a classroom, hey, we have begun to learn the first lesson of talking, typography, exact repeatability, all these things that the printing press gave us were like our first grade class in language. Now we have this new tool of AI that's teaching us how to use imagery in conjunction with language. It's kind of like learning trigonometry in algebra. You've got to learn one before the other, but they go together. And it's a way to see the world. It's a way to put your hands around what's actually happening.

And I think that what we're seeing right now, I think it was philo-Judeas who said the next logos will be a language to be beheld. And in some ways, when you look at imagery compared with the text, and the words, this is what we're seeing is this evolution of language, this idea where we can actually convey emotions, where we can convey truthiness, you know, in some sort of way, but at least we can communicate on a level. And I think another part of this is spirituality, because I think that if I can experience your spirituality, that's the bridge that we need in order to thoroughly understand each other. Spirituality is, is the part is like the honorifics of language.

It's this idea that we have a common good. It's this idea that we have this spiritual nature. But how do you communicate that, especially when it's been translated and interpreted along the ways? But I guess the main focus that I would love to get your opinion on is this evolution of language, putting together imagery with words and emotion. Might that be what's happening?

Is it an evolution of language coming together? I think so. It appears to be, you know, I know there's a lot of chaos right now. Right. And it appears that everyone's at each other's throat, you know, politically, ethically, you know, nationalistically. Mm-hmm. I think those are the growing pains of deeper, broader communication.

Yes. In a nutshell, it's really positive. I agree. But it has some like negative side effects. You know, it's like the, you know, the pharmaceutical commercial. You know, it's like, this will cure your heartburn, but it may cause, you know, a whole litany of things you really don't want to interact with. Yeah. Yeah.

So, but if if you're dying and your heart's about to stop, you know, you might need to tolerate some of those negative side effects. You know, so I think what we're experiencing is the negative side effects. of, for lack of a better world, a global community, you know. And that can be really good, but it comes with unique challenges. So the fact that I can communicate with someone in Africa, Saudi Arabia, China, that's amazing. That's incredible. Like, that's unprecedented in human history so far as we know. Yeah.

Although that is questionable as well. I think there might have been some ancient forms of intercontinental communication, but I'm not prepared to discuss that today. So, but the downside of that is that we're going to be face to face, at least across the internet, as you and I are right now, with people who have radically divergent views of our own. And so it's going to take us a while. to like, you know, people often say when I was a kid, you know, my dad was a Republican and we lived right across the street from the Democrat.

We got along just fine. How long did it take and what kind of other cultural cohesion made that possible? So how much longer is it going to take for me to be on that same level with someone from Okinawa or Sydney or, um, Tanzania, you know, whatever. It's going to take a while, you know, and we're going to have, because we're so different that it's going to take time for, for us to be able to tolerate each other's differences, the way the 1960s Republican and Democrat used to tolerate their differences. So now we're like basically interfacing with, with our ideological enemy enemies,

like on a daily basis. And so it's going to take a long time for all that to get, you know, cleared out in the wash, I think. But in the long term, I really think it's a great benefit. If we use it for what my people, what some people might describe as the greater good, what I would describe as using these things to glorify God. God. Yeah, it's well said. I see it as a positive thing too. And in some ways, this new method of communication is allowing us to see ourselves for who we are. We have a lot of problems. And we have a lot of problems admitting guilt, admitting we're wrong. And when I have to look at the what's been happening in the Ukraine or the Middle East,

in my name that I sanctioned by paying my taxes and look at these families that I murdered, look at these families that we murdered, for what? You know, like, we have to come to grips with that, that we as a country in our name decided to murder all these people in the names of resources. And like these people on the other side of the earth are, have every right to want to hate us. Like imagine how we would feel if we were on the receiving end of that. The idea that we have to stare our darkest fears in the face, you know, they say, they say when you stare into the abyss, it stares back. But I think that that's what's happening right now is that we as a humans are getting a really good look at some of the horrible things that we've done.

And there's a big portion of us that want to deny that we did it. The only way out is through. Like we have to come to grips with the way we've lived in the past is atrocious. We're still living through the Middle Ages in some ways. You know, we may have gotten rid of the Iron Lady and these ways of torture, but in a lot of ways, we're still enslaved, you know. And I think that what's happening now with this revolution and communication is that people are beginning to understand that we're pretty similar in a lot of ways, that we want a life that's best for

our kids, that we don't want to be ruled by an authoritarian figure. that doesn't care about us, that we want to have a voice that, you know, we're more than just a walk from the hospital to the graveyard. And this, these modes of communication are allowing us to do that. And the rate of change is happening so quick that it's freeing up information. Another thing that I believe is happening with communication in this revolution is the, is somewhat the loosening of patents and the loosening of copyrights. And when that happens, this, free flow of information allows for rapid innovation. It allows for people like you and I who came from hardworking blue class families where our mentors were people that got up and,

you know, worked 14 hours a day and that's all we knew. I didn't know you could retire at the age of 30. No one told me that there was like a method where you could do that. But now, you know, perhaps there's a young, a young version of you or me in a third world country that's of this podcast. It's like, what? You can retire 30, you know, and then they begin exploring that. But when we, when we loosen the reins, when we allow the gatekeepers to be pushed aside and we allow for the free flowing of information. And that's what the promise of the internet does. And that's what good communication does. And in some ways, bringing it back, that's what the Tower of Babel tried to stop people from doing is. Let's, let's cut these people. It's not let them talk. It's, it's too much coming together.

So, yeah, I think that what we're seeing with communication, while very painful for a lot of people, very painful to look at ourselves and admit our flaws, what we're seeing is a rapid increase in self-awareness, a rapid increase in self-responsibility, and hopefully a rapid increase in self-love. And that's what communication is going to do for us if we stay on this path and we're able to find a way through. I want to pivot to it to this idea of, you know, a lot of people are afraid of AI. But let me ask you this. Can technology help bridge the gap in understanding and tolerance among different religious and spiritual beliefs in facilitating cross-cultural dialogues and experiences? What do you think? I think it absolutely can if we use it properly. You know, if we don't use it as a baseball bat to.

right to you know further entrench ourselves and then you know beat up on others um i i don't know this is this is easy for me to say because i've never been one to want to impose my faith my politics my um agenda on other people you know um i believe in the carrot versus the stick philosophy you know if if I'm living out my ideals and they prove to be worthy of application, then others will model that should they so desire to. You know, so I think this is where a lot of the angst frustration, fear, bitterness, all that comes from is being constantly exposed to people who disagree with you. And so if we can learn to not take that personal, and we can learn to meet people where they are, regardless of our differences, discuss those things.

And I know that's challenging because some of us have such different ethical, moral, spiritual paradigms that it really is hard. It's easy to say and it's hard to do. I think then we can apply this technology in ways that benefit humanity to a degree that we've here to for not even imagined. And you said, I don't remember what you said earlier. You almost said like, forgive me if I'm misinterpreting what you said, it's almost like you said, it's like the gatekeepers, it's getting out of their hands, you know, and it's becoming like public. Right.

I think the future of technology and Lord willing economics and money is going to be open source. I think we need to dispense with the idea that religion, currency, all that is somehow tied up into political boundaries or nation states. I think we need to dispense with the idea that if we want to use technology, we go to some corporation like Microsoft or something. I think all that is going to, and there's going to be a lot of growing pains through this process as well, because the people currently who manage those facets of life are not going to release their control very willingly. it'll take time. But I do believe that we've reached a point where we can participate in and share the production of technology, money, governance, all those things can be shared amongst people in a way that's equitable and participatory to a certain degree. But if

If you're not imposing your way of life on me, George, then maybe I don't feel the need to resist what you're doing so much. Because I think that's what we're afraid of. We're afraid that if you believe different than I do, your values are going to be imposed upon me. But if we had an open source lifestyle, then we don't impose our values on each other. And eventually those things that provide the highest value to humans, physically, spiritually, economically, whatever, those things will rise to the top if we're not being opposed, if those systems aren't being imposed upon us. I guess it's like an absolute free market concept. And that goes across the board, be it spirituality, economics, governance, whatever. And that may sound like a utopian pipe dream to a lot of people.

But I've always believed that if you aim for the stars, at least you might reach the moon. So will it ever be perfect? I doubt it. But it could be a lot better. We really could have, I mean, everybody's kind of dystopian right now, but I really think we could have an amazing future. I agree. You know, I think this is what freedom looks like. so many people are

distraught and mostly because they watch the news mostly because they listen to the propaganda machine that is just screaming at the top of its lungs about the nuclear war and this guy's going to jail and this guy's dumb

you know it's just this constant borderline pornographic shouting of garbage it's it's Shakespeare It's a tale devoid of meaning told by an idiot.

Like, that's what's going on right now. But if you just peel that back and you go, oh, Emperor's got no clothes on. The financial system's completely broken. They are people in positions of authority, people that own supply chains, people that own the monetary system. These people are scared out of their mind because they have zero control. And let me give you an example of a parallel economy.

of a parallel economy that I see happening right now. And you need not squint your eyes to look at it. When we think about the idea of NFTs, a lot of people are like, NFTs, man, that's just a bunch of silliness. But let's look at what the Bored Ape Yacht Club did. For those who may not know, Bored Ape was like it was this, it was this phenomenon of NFTs where these people created these digital images. And on the surface, it looked like they created these silly images and they all became

multimillionaires. That's what happened on the surface. And that's for the people that don't thoroughly understand. But what you saw right there was a unique collective of artists, a lot of whom were very talented in their fields, be it engineers, be it artists, be it painters, be it coders, all these very incredibly talented artists and professionals and engineers, they bought into a collective. And they say, listen, we're going to buy this token. And whoever holds this token, we're going to come and help them. If you bought into our collective, I am going to give my time to you to help out your project. And they did.

They became wildly successful. Imagine having the power of an underground team of the most talented professionals at your disposal. Imagine having like McKinsey or a think tank. Hey, I want to have a podcast. Hey, guys, here's my token. I'm calling in my favor. And I bring in 100 individuals from around the world to make my podcast the greatest podcast in the world. Boom.

Alternate economic model. No taxes involved. No governments involved. Me and a team of talented people working together to make my dream come true. And when when someone kicks in their token, now this thing that I have built, I use my machine, my brand, my personal thing that was helped by the rest of the world. I take my machine and I go help somebody else do it. This economic model is happening right now. And if people are interested, there's a cat name Israel Wilson who's starting a brand new one.

Kids phenomenal. He's ahead of the game. Check him out. Go buy his NFTs. Get in the collective. Tell him George Moni sent you. Hey, True Life podcast sent me, Israel Wilson. He'll be stoked on it.

But these are the economic models that are beginning to happen. These are the parallel economies that the gate-cule. are so busy worried about, oh, well, how are we going to keep these things? And we're going to start our own CBDC. Like, they're irrelevant. The people in positions of authority are irrelevant. Their ideas are dumb. They do not work. And a new model is happening. And there's nothing they can do to stop it. They can squeeze it here, but it's just like a balloon. When you squeeze a balloon, it comes out here, here and here. The new, like, there was a motif a while back that said, winter is coming. I would like to say that spring is here. Look at the changes that are happening.

around the world. You can see, thank you, Brandon. Brandon says it already is, George. Yes, it's here, man. Like the world is changing in ways and I see it in myself. I see it in you. I see it in the people listening to this podcast. The amount of change is happening in our life echoes the change that's happening in the world. A large part of the old ideas are dying. And when things die, they create the fertile soil for new plants to bud and grow. It's an incredibly painful time, but all change is. And I want people to focus on the beauty that's about to come. You're seeing buds begin to open. You're seeing opportunity begin to happen. And for those people that have the courage to walk away from their nine to five right now, there's never been a better opportunity right now to get in the

ground floor of this new emerging world that's happening, this creator economy. The podcasting, e-webinar, starting your own business, becoming your own brand. This is the future. Start something now in the creator economy. And I promise you, in a year, two years, five years from now, you will be better off than you've ever dreamed up. Well, I don't know. It's kind of a shot out the back door. But what do you think?

I think you're absolutely right, brother. Real quick. Of course, man. The NFTs. Yeah. You know, when I saw that whole, I didn't participate in the like buying and selling of images and all that stuff. But I recognized the potency of the technology. And so when all that was really hot and people were talking about it and people were in my experience were mostly dismissive of it.

Right. And I just noticed a comment there. Let me quickly tell everyone. I do not have the comments on. So if you want to say something to me, run it through George, because I'm way too ADD. If those comments were streaming over there, there's no way I could keep up with our conversation. So if anyone wants to comment, send it through George. I'm not looking at the comments.

So just throw that in there. Back to the NFTs. When all that was going on, I didn't care about buying phone. photos of aliens for a million Bitcoin or whatever. I didn't care. That was not important to me. Here is how I was trying to explain that phenomenon to people who didn't get it. And maybe I get this a little wrong, but I think the gist of it will make sense to people.

So there are people who have lived in, we're comfortable in the modern Western world where we recognize like, if I buy a house, like that is recorded. like through my bank at the local county office. Like everyone knows out on this house. It is not in dispute. Like George cannot show up and say, hey, dude, get out of my house. And I'm like, no, this is mine. He's like, George is like, no, I got more money than you. So you got to leave.

That happens in the third world all the time. So Bob may in the third world in the jungle somewhere in the Congo or whatever, he may have, he may live on a plot of land. that was handed down to him for 27 generations. And he is, him and his family have grown bananas or beans or whatever. If at some point a logging company makes an agreement with a local politician, Bob gets his ass kicked out of his land and it gets burned and scraped. And they plant palm trees or something on it.

he has no means of obsessing his value and his ownership of his ownership of that property. However, with crypto technology, he can create a token or a blockchain entry on a network that records in perpetuity the boundaries of his property. And so with something as simple as a cell phone and crypto technology, he's been able to bypass like 500 years of, you know, local county record keeping and goes straight to an irrefutable, permanent blockchain record of his ownership of his personal property. That provides a level of security to him that he's never had, but that we all take for granted.

And so that's the power of something like an NFT. Because this guy can create an NFT that proves the ownership of his property. And so that creates wealth for him. Because now he's got something tangible that he can record, something he can pass down to his posterity. that they can always own. And it's only through this technology that he's able to construct something like that. Because his culture is not sophisticated enough as of yet to have that kind of record keeping and such that we all take for granted. So to me, that's where liberty, stability, all that comes from things like this.

and unfortunately for me I feel like I'm speaking into a void on these issues because most of the people I know and interact with are like, you know, modern Christian people who are, you know, whatever, they're like, I don't care about NFTs. Like, of course you don't. You know, you make $150,000 a year and you live, you know, in a nice house.

Like, it doesn't matter to you. You don't care. But to like three quarters of the rest of the world, this is like electricity coming to them. This is like lifeblood. And we're just ignoring it. But it's going to transform the whole third world. I don't know.

To me, that is magnificent. And people are just like, eh, I don't need to buy a picture of a monkey or an alien or Scooby-Doo or whatever. It's not bad. That's just one minute. That's like one little manifesting. of it. It's there's an interesting pattern.

You know, when you can see this when you go through the United States. You go through some districts or states or counties and there's these power lines, right? Like you telephone pole with power lines. But then you go through a new section of town and everything's underground. You don't see those power lines. So a lot of the times what happens when technology gets transferred to the third world, they skip a generation. Like some people don't, will never have land. landlines. They just went straight to cell phones.

You know, and in some ways, as we're transferring technology to the third world, we're transferring innovation to the third world. And I think the NFTs and blockchain is something that is being pioneered almost. Like the idea may have happened here on some level, but the implementation of the technology is happening in the third world. It's going to boomerang back. Like, you're right. Right now, we're comfortable here in the United States, and we don't thoroughly understand the power of, you know, creating a digital footprint that is your, something you own forever. But in the third world, they do get it.

Here's a way that I think people in the Christian community or people that don't thoroughly understand NFTs or blockchain can't. Like, here's something that, how could blockchain technology be used to ensure the authenticity and integrity of spiritual teachings and practices in a digital age. Imagine that. That's something like, hey, here's on the blockchain. It can never be changed. This is what Jesus said.

Boom, there it is. You can't. There's no interpretation. There it is. That's what it says right there. You could still maybe interpret it a little bit, but you would have the exact words for everyone to see. So that's one way for people to change it.

Like, it's kind of interesting, right? Yeah, I've never thought of that. That's incredible. If we only had blockchain in the first century, man, so much of our lives now. But what if we start right now having it? Like a thousand years from now, people are going to be wondering what you and I thought. And they're not going to have to rely on some guy interpreting what you and I said in this conversation. Like, I have no doubt this will somehow make it onto the blockchain in some way.

And it will be there permanently so long as we have electricity. Like, which no one wants to get rid of. I don't care of, you know, how diabolical you are. We all want electricity. So, yeah, like, what if we could watch a YouTube video of Jesus' teaching that was uncorrupted by my scribes or people in the 10th century, you know, trying to, you know, tweak things or whatever? Now, as a person of faith, I believe that maybe every word of scripture was not perfectly and inherently transferred, but I think God wants us to have the tools to live a healthy, peaceful life. And I think by some mechanism, he's transferred that information to us in a way that we can into it and make sense of and apply in our lives.

So do I believe that every word of Jesus was perfectly documented and I can read it now in English? Maybe not, but I think the gist of it is there, you know. But what if we didn't have to rely on the gist of it? What if we actually had almost like patented, unalterable, permanent information that someone could go back and access? How much does that reduce lies, propaganda, manipulation? You know, so oftentimes in history, both in political and religious history, people didn't want to provide access to the totality of information for fear that people might learn the truth and exercise their freedom or diverge from the current power paradigm or,

whatever, you know, we no longer need to rely on those gatekeepers. You know, I think, I think humans either are smart and responsible enough to handle the whole truth and live by it, or we will be once we're given the opportunity to exercise such responsibility, you know. we magically assume that a person at 15 is not capable of driving an automobile, but somehow at 16 they magically are. No, we just, at that point, we decided, okay, it's time to teach them and invest the time, money, resources into preparing that person for that level of responsibility.

So I believe humanity is ready for a more, for lack of a better, word evolved, more present, more responsible form of self and societal governance. And we no longer need a few empowered individuals who tell us all what to do. I think we'll solve that when we dissolve the barriers to communication and and the sharing and buy and selling of resources. And we don't have these highly paid gatekeepers who really do nothing more than treat us like serfs. Yeah, I couldn't agree more.

And I think this speaks to the idea of the changes that we're seeing in the world. You know, I really feel that we're emerging as a new form. You know, and if I can use the analogy of the caterpillar and the butterfly, the caterpillar goes on this just incredible eating spree of consuming everything, just extracting consuming, extracting, consuming until it gets big and fat. And then all of a sudden, what does it do? It spins a web, right? And it spins this cocoon around itself. And the same way a silkworm spins its web around itself, so too do we as humankind,

spin a web around us, a web of ideas, a web of ideals, a web of stories that keep us insulated from the fact that we are fundamentally changing as something into a new form. And I think what you're seeing right now is us, humanity, as one, growing together, the end of history, we're beginning to break out or at least see the cracks in the chrysalis. And what I mean by that is like look at the parts of our world that are breaking down, the monetary system, education. These are the thin spots of the chrysalis where we're beginning to emerge as a new form. We can see through the veil. We're cracking through. Hey, education is, man, people are hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt and they're just learning old stories. They don't work anymore. The hero's journey is, it's silly,

it doesn't work. It's not right. It's not working anymore. Hey, this idea of, of, of, of, working 15 hours a day for bullshit pay and that's not really working anymore that is us emerging as a new form and it's not like people listening to this podcast you're on the same level it's not you as an individual that's fed up it's society that's fed up it's because we're emerging as a new form we're moving together and creating something new and we're breaking out of this chryslist this old detritus of the cocoon is breaking down around us and in some ways it's the

unrealized dreams of the last generation that's falling apart the same way that a rocket ship has scaffolding to keep it on pace before it blasts off we're blasting off and that's scaffolding these old ideas of some religious

some political some economical this scaffolding is falling away and we're like oh my God, I feel like I can fly a little bit, man. I can really go out here and create things. People are starting to respond to me. What does this do? And it's not just me.

It's everybody, man. Like, I see, I listen to so many different people. And I'm so thankful to have this podcast platform where I can hear people's dreams beginning to emerge. You know, it's like, hey, people are responding to me. Yeah, the wing, I can almost fly right here. And it's such a powerful story. And I want more people to understand that you. You are part of this new form.

We are the leading edge of this new world emerging. You're part of it. All you have to do is believe you're part of it and start seeing the world for what it is. Start seeing yourself for more than just a cog in this wheel. Like you, all of our ancestors, everybody has participated to get us to this point. Automation is coming.

AI is a tool and it's going to liberate us if we use it for that. It's a liberating tool. It's helping us crack open this Christmas. So yeah, man, I love it. Yeah. And don't fear it. Like it's, it's, it's, um, if, and I know, I know people who have more, and I know this because that's where I come from.

Right. I know people who have conservative ideals, you know, they want, they like status quo because it's comfortable. It doesn't require us to think too much. It doesn't require, you know, we've kind of figured, we've, figured this world out. We've carved out our little, you know, acreage of it and we got our little piece of it. And we're like, okay, I got, I locked down, you know, I've got my resources, you know,

I've got my checklist. You know, I've got, you know, I've got, you know, I've got every, you know, and it's like, so if things go to hell and handbasket, at least, you know, let, yes, I approve of that, do that, but don't only do that. Like, think about the future. become like integrate what's happening right now into your life you know it's like that way of life is is past just like the way of life before the automobile right you know um none of us are choosing to go back to you know the horse and buggy days those were a great improvement over the you got to walk everywhere and towed everything yourself days and no doubt there were people then

and you know what's going to become of the young people who don't have to walk 40 miles with a jug of water on their head put off who cares like yes you know praise god your children are going to have an easier life than you did isn't that what we all kind of like want you know yeah and so why not embrace that and see how you can maximize it for your own benefit and the benefit of everybody around you know quit being so tight-fisted, you know, quit being so, having such a limited horizon. You know, one thing that if you're a person who reads scripture like I do, you constantly see God busting people's paradigms, you know, and they were always scared. You know, they were always scared to take that call. And it's, I can promise you this. If you start embrace,

racing positive change. I can almost guarantee you that your family, your friends, your people in your religious community, they're going to go, don't do that, George. That's bad stuff. Don't you be buying NFTs?

You're wasting your money. And you're like, what is this money you're talking about? You're talking about the stuff, the paper stuff with the president's faces on it or whatever? That's so silly. you know, but you're not, you're not going to get confirmation. People aren't going to pat you on the back and celebrate you for being the guy who embraces the new stuff. I know all about that because I'm a traditional conservative Christian who's saying like, hey, I think psychedelics might have, you know, something to offer.

And so, you know, that that unwillingness to entertain the potential of something. Because it has been either demonized or uninvestigated or whatever, you just have to be willing to participate in the change of technology and exercise it in ways that can benefit you, your family, and your community. and if we do that, how is that going to destroy us or how is that going to offend God? If we're actually acting as his hands and feet in the world doing the things that we were put here to do, I believe. I believe that if I can make positive impact in my family, my community, my neighborhood, that radiates blessing and it's infectious and um sometimes i view it like in that harry potter film where um you know they're in that basement and and you got dungledore and boulder mary and they've got their ones out and they've got these almost like these bubbles of energy and they're it's like who's

going to who's going to win, you know? If there's a new technological horizon, wouldn't you want people who share your loving views to be a part of that? Like, if that's going to be the new economic, political, whatever power structure, wouldn't you want people with your own wholesome ethics to be the ones involved in participating in that? Or do you want to, leave that to the, you know, the unethical shysters who, I wish, I can't remember the name of the corporation, but like the, you know, the Sam Bainment Freeds and those people. Right. It's either going to be, it's like politics in a way.

It's either going to be the good people who are investing and running the system or you're going to let the degenerates take it over. So how about people like you and I who actually love and want to see the best in people? Why don't we get involved and build this new infrastructure instead of letting, you know, the degenerates and the selfish people build it? I love it. Yeah, it's interesting that you use the Dumbledorf and the Voldemort. Like, you know, if you think about those two spheres of influence that are like, look how powerful we are. Like, what if we're just like, you guys, we're just be over here.

We're not going to even pay attention to you guys. Congratulations on your wands, man. We'll be over here. And like, we're creating our own thing while they're like, we're creating our own thing while they're, like look how powerful we are it's like yeah fantastic man we're over here doing our own thing by the time they realize

they're so busy fighting they don't realize everybody's left them they're like yeah how come one's watching you know like I think that on some level that's what's beginning to happen is that you know the bread and circus the dog and pony show is it's not you know the the game

is not worth the candle and for so many of us it's like what are we doing like This is so silly. We work so hard for so little. And the harder we work, the more of our profits are kicked upstairs. And we've seen so many of our families just be disintegrated. And, you know, the lack of morality that has corroded our society where there's no longer respect for our elders. And, you know, we just cart them off to old folks' homes. And we cart our kids off to centers and we just go work for some faceless corporation that sees this as a number. Like no wonder everyone is dying and miserable and looking for something new. However, that being said, maybe that's what it takes. You know, the same way that coal is formed into a diamond from pressure,

maybe that's what it takes for us to create a better world is for us to all get to this point or we've had enough. And once we've had enough, then we begin growing together and creating these new systems, creating this new form and understanding that we're all suffering. And instead of blaming each other, like, we should be empathetic. Like, that person feels the exact same way I do. I don't care what their creed or their color or their orientation. I don't care, man.

I care that they're suffering. And I care that there's a class of people that are oppressing us. Like, let's just stop feeding this machine that is oppressing us. And, you know, just stop paying attention to them. And I think that on some level, spirituality is that bridge. I think spirituality is the lens through which we see each other as each other. You know what I mean by that? Like, I can see my spiritual nature in you.

And the words you use and the communication and the language and what you practice, what you preach. And, you know, that's one thing that I think bridges the gap. gap in geography, whether you're in India or China or you're Ukrainian or Russian, like we, you and I have no problem with the people of these other countries. So how can there be all this crazy war and fight for resources when the very people are the exact same as us? Like I don't, and I think that this gets us back to the idea of communication. It gets us back to the idea of these tools. Now all of a sudden we have these tools to communicate effectively and see what's going on and break through the illusion.

You know, I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful, Clint, that what we're seeing with this technology will allow us to communicate in a way that we've never communicated before. I think it's happening. I do you. And I think it's giving us the power and the capacity to rediscover things that humanity knew in the past. Yeah.

You know, you've, we discussed earlier, you know, you're having these podcasts with David Solomon where you all are discussing like ancient mystics, you know, these people had discovered radical truths. And for whatever reason, over the centuries, people decided that was no longer valuable. Or maybe they didn't even in their own time. Many of them in their own time, they didn't. No one appreciated it. And it took pain, suffering, liberation, whatever in the centuries that followed for people to say, wow, like this person really was on to something.

And so this ability to communicate, like, we're going to rediscover wisdom in the past that was, it was like a, I. I'm going to use like a farm metaphor because I understand, you know, I have animals and stuff. So it's almost like an egg that was laid that was never set on. You know, it just, it was like this, this beautiful golden egg was laid there. And it was just like, people forgot about it. It got covered up with the dust of history. And yeah, at some point, you know, someone's going along there, you know, running their tiller and they hit something. Like, whoa, what's this?

Yeah. And now you can gestate that egg and hatch it. It's beautiful. And it's going to, it's going to birth, you know, whole new ideas and appreciation for the human spirit, for who knows what. The possibilities are as endless as the amount of contributions human minds have made over the centuries. This brings up a, okay, so this makes me think about as we're emerging as this. new form? What if the idea of time and language, we had it all wrong? The same way we thought that planets were encased in glass, the same way we thought that we were the center of the universe,

so too might our ideas of reality be wrong. What if we can communicate with the past? What if we can communicate with the future? What if the words of the mystics that we're talking about is a way for us to communicate with the people that came before us? Why can't we have a dialogue with people that have already died. It sounds like we're already doing that. You know, what if we are communicating with the spirits of the past? We just don't have the language, right? So when you say, I'm communicating with a dead person, it doesn't sound right. But the fact that I can talk to Julian of Norwich, who was an anchores in medieval times, and her words can echo through me and other people through the vibrations of this microphone all throughout the world. That's a whole other type of

language. We're communicating with everybody who's ever came before us. And what happens when you as an individual can harness the power of every teaching that came before you. And those teachings can flow through you to inspire other people. I think we're on the cusp of thoroughly understanding time, language, rationality, and modeling reality in a way we never have before. And it can happen so fast. Like, just in my life alone, things have been happening in the last six months. I think it's happening for everybody. But it's a matter of. of wrapping your mind around modeling reality

in a new way. What do you think? Yeah. It's almost like the faster this goes, the more rapidly change happens. Yes. And I don't,

it's too much for me to even take in. You know, when I started my podcast, which is like two or three years ago, I was so afraid to launch it because I was like, man, I'm going to be, you know, putting a box of crazy, you know, druggy, whatever. Now it's like you turn on the television and like a police commissioner in some conservative city is talking about, you know, decriminalizing drugs. And you're like, whoa, like what happened in two years where like such a radical shift in the way we view something?

Now, people are on both sides of that. Some people view that as very negative. I tend to view it with what I call cautious optimism. Yeah. There's no limit if we're responsible and we're acting ethically and with love for our fellow man that this can't be a real positive impact on the world. Our ability to share information, our ability to. get rid of paradigms that aren't serving us anymore. Right.

It makes me really positive about where things could go. And I'm constantly reminding my fellow Christians. You know, don't be so pessimistic, man. Just quit watching that news. That is just propaganda. It's meant to keep you engaged. So you'll keep feeding that algorithm of how many viewers they have. It's not real.

It's just it's a, it's a, they take little portions of reality and they craft it in a way to manage your behavior. Yeah. Don't buy into that, you know. Work hard, love people, interact with people, share your ideas. Don't be fearful to go out on a limb. You know, sometimes I play with ideas. And I'm not married to those ideas. But when I share them with someone else, like you and I are doing right now, and we flesh them out, we start to see like, maybe I was an error there.

Maybe that's not the most optimal way to do something. Maybe George's way is better. And we can kind of bat these things around and make sense of it. It's just it leads to better understanding of your fellow human being. And if we can do that without malice and envy and grift, like once we, and to some degree, I'm realistic. You know, I think a lot of those negative emotions are just part and parcel of the human experience. And I think if we channel those things in healthy ways, sometimes they're not so bad. You know, a teeny, I'm hesitant to say this because it's all about framing.

I started to say, and I don't know if this is, this is me going on a limb and throwing an idea out there. I started to say that a tiny bit of envy might get you out of bed in the morning. You know, and then you might say, man, my neighbor has a Lamborghini. I'd love to have one of those. You know what? And you go out there and you create a. awesome podcast that changes people lives. And in turn, you get that money that allows you buy the Lamborghini. Whatever. I don't know. I'm just throwing that out there. So like,

if we can take the things that we consider as negative or sinful influences in our life and steer those in a healthy, loving direction, like, we can even use the negative impulses if we understand them properly and channel them in a different direction. And we can't even use. And, one that doesn't lead us to hate our neighbor, but one that leads us to love and respect our neighbor. Right. Then, like, that can be a positive impulse to lead us in ways that that perpetuate love and service. I think, I don't know. No, it's beautiful.

And I think it ties back to this new dimension of language. I honestly believe that the way. world is talking to us through us. What I mean by that is that, like, let's say you go out and you see your neighbor's Lamborghini. Might that be the world telling you like, hey, you can have this if you're willing to work hard. Hey, I'm trying to inspire you in my own language.

You know, and if we just maybe take the words from the gospel of Thomas and understand And God's kingdom is all around us, but so few of us actually see it. Might the world be trying to communicate to us through us? Everybody that you see is an image of God. You yourself are an image of God. So when you see somebody out there that is doing something that arises emotion in you, ask, what is this emotion telling me? What lesson am I supposed to learn?

And you could say, God, what lesson am I supposed to learn? Earth, what lesson am I supposed to learn? The message is that the earth that God, the Creator, is speaking to us all the time if we have eyes to see and ears to hear. The world is communicating to us what we can do to not only be better for ourselves, but to better our relationships with ourselves, our family, our community. And I believe once you begin tapping into this, that the world unfolds in front of you, The path sort of opens up and shows you.

And it's not an easy path, but there is a path there. You know, when we see this in scriptures, in sacred texts, in visions, in dreams, this idea that the world is communicating to us through us. If people can just remember that for a moment, just meditate on that or take some time in quiet contemplation to think about it. And you'll begin to see the signs of God all around you talking to you. And when you begin listening to that and seeing that, you begin embodying that. And the changes in your life begin happening.

I honestly believe that the world is communicating to us. It's constantly challenging us and it's wanting us to be better. And it's giving us the answers in the form of a budding flower. Nature reveals truth. Nature is the kingdom of God all around us. And when you, if you turn on the TV, think again of doubting Thomas. Like, why would you listen to this voice of insincerity when you have the world of nature? Look outside your window and then look at the TV.

Which window do you want to look through? You know what I mean? But I really want to push that issue. I want to say one more time that the world is speaking to us through us. I think it's a beautiful way to look at him. And I think it harkens back to this idea of, language we were talking about. We're beginning to understand a new dimension of language, a dimension that transcends time, a dimension that transcends things that we, the end of history

in a sort of way, but this new dimension of language is here for people to understand if you pay attention. Yeah. And it kind of reminds me of something you discussed, I guess it was yesterday. Yeah. Mr. Solomon, like Julian of Norwich, saying all,

all manner of things shall be well. Yeah. You know, that, like, when you look at the news and you see the chaos and you see the, political and religious violence in the world, like, it's hard to reconcile that. You're like,

are you sure all manner of things will be well? You know, but that kind of reminds me of like Romans chapter eight, you know, like Paul says that all, and a lot of people, disagree on this passage like what it means and stuff but all things work to the good of those you know to the glory of god it's like when you stop interpreting everything that happens in the world as like

personally according to you like um you can begin to see like a cosmic view of it all and be like in time and in the logos all these things that we view as positive, negative, are in some way reconciled to truth. You know, somehow ultimately, and I think we, most of us recognize this, at least in a kind of a remote, distant way. It seems like the balance never gets too out of whack. You know, it's like it's the old pendulum swing. right you know thing we we we use that kind of um just colloquially and we all know what it means

like you know um i don't want to get political but i heard you know we all we all know who bill maur is he's a great comedian he's a he's just he's a smart you know uh celebrity type guy but he's of a certain political cast you know that he and he would even refer to himself as a liberal. Sure. A political liberal. But he's beginning to question how far the pendulum is swinging in his own direction. You know, so even he is like, I think things are getting out of balance. And I only bring that up because we all understand kind of politics.

I don't want to get into that. But so I think things like that happen with religion. and economics. So our great-grandparents, depending on how old you are, but roughly in that frame, they went through a great depression in this country. And so they became penny-pinching,

tinful washing, you know, people who are very materialistic in a survival way. Right. You know. And then because of that reaction, it forged a certain frugality in society. And that frugality led to abundant wealth and prosperity. And that abundant wealth and prosperity created a generation of people who were entitled and lazy.

And so then the cycle starts over again. It's like the pendulum. So sometimes when I recognize what we may be experiencing temporally right now, I can lament that. And I can be like, man, like we're in a real estate bubble, commercial real estate's crashing. Everybody is hiring, but nobody's willing to pay what people are worth. You know, it's like there's all this kind of like chaos right now. But it won't go too far.

It will like all manner of things will be well. Things will course correct. But we don't course correct as societies the way we do when we're driving down the highway. You know, when we're driving down the highway and you start to get over on that white line, man, you course correct quickly. Right. But as societies, we don't do that. We tend to get almost off into the void before we course correct. And so to me, all manner of things shall be well, and all things work to the good of those who love God.

Those two things mean that doesn't mean in our individual temporal lifespans, we will experience personal security, wealth, comfort, so on and so forth. But from a cosmic level, society will course correct over time and will seek that golden mean. If that makes any sense. Yeah, 100%. It's, you know, we live in a delicate ecosystem that's been around for some people. say 250,000 years, but the earth has all the time in the world.

Humankind may be a footnote on that which graces the planet Earth. You know, so many species go extinct. And the time we have here as an individual human being is but a thought in the mind of God. Just boom, like that. So it's very difficult. And it makes a lot of sense that we would be like, oh, no, the world is ending. Like for us, it is.

And each one of us is going to get a front row seat of our own death. But the idea that we would be here for the death of the world is kind of silly. You know what I mean? And so it makes sense to see how neurotic we are. Because we have this small timeline when we look at our lives. And we have echoes. We can see our parents live. Some of us can see our grandparents' life.

or we learn stories about our great-grandparents' life. But we're only here for a short time. And so everything is a crisis. You know, think about all the stories that you have heard in your life. Like, this is a once-in-a-lifetime event. Like, that's a lot of once-in-a-lifetime events that have happened lately. You know, whether it's the Maui fires or the hurricane, Katrina, the Twin Towers. There's a lot of once-in-a-lifetime events that are happening.

And I'm trying to thinking about that. Like, the world's moving pretty fast. And so I'm just echoing what you say in that, you know, there is a balance. And I think that whether it's Julian of Norwich or Rich Roll or this the mystic tradition in general, it's a way of calling to us from the past, the words that all will be well. It's a way of the God, the creator, the world kind of walking up to us and putting his arm around us and being like, Just take it easy, man. Or maybe it's the footprints.

Maybe it's God carrying us right now because we're so neurotic. Like, okay, this is where I carry you. But I think it speaks to the idea of faith. And I think that what we're seeing in some ways is this new revival of spirituality. And I'm hopeful that this new level of spirituality via communication is a world spirituality. It's sort of a return to the ideas of shared faith that, that weaves in between all religions. You know, you often hear about the finger pointing to the moon,

but so many people get caught up in the finger instead of staring at the moon. You know, and I see it echoing back to us. And so much of what's happening in this world, it can be frightening. It can be scary, especially if we listen to the news and we look at our own timeline. It's very frightening. But if you just take a step back and you look at where we started, and where we are now. Things are getting better.

The world is finally starting to get to a place where we're admitting we're wrong. And I think that's a huge aspect. Like, that's the point where you can really begin to make change in your own life. And if we as a world can admit we were wrong in a lot of ways, that means a lot of positive change for the planet. Like, hey, we really messed up here. And we're acknowledging it. And for anybody who's gone through a 12-step program or anybody who knows somebody with addiction or anybody who's had problems in their life, be it a marriage, be it abuse, acknowledgement and awareness is a giant step in getting past the problem.

And I think that that's where we are as a world right now is acknowledging, hey, we've got a big problem. And this is the first time the world's kind of coming together and being like, yeah, we've got to do something. You know, and we may not understand. We haven't decided what it is, but people are coming together and not just the world leaders, not just the economic form, but people like you and me, people that are listening in Spain and Bob and Brandon and Adam that are listening to the show right now. We're all coming together and we're part of the solution. We're putting forth our answers.

And like you said, this could be out on the blockchain for 100 years now and people could be listening to this and being like, hey, this was the roots of change that began to happen. These were the seeds that were planted. So everybody listening, understand that your voice, your actions matter. And if you want to create real change in the world, just start creating it in yourself. And I think you'll begin manifesting that change in the world, I think. And it's a beautiful time, Clint. And I'm really excited about it.

And, you know, it's an amazing time to be alive. And I hope people tend to see it that way and shy away from the fear and embrace the change. Yeah. And for the first time in known human history, you and me and everyone listening to this and watching this have the opportunity to participate in a way where their voice is actually heard. Like in the past, that wouldn't have been the case. You could have prayed about it. You could have talked to your spouse or your local community about it. But never could you have been witness to and participate in a global in time presentation of ideas?

You know, it's magic, man. It's beautiful. It's glorious. And I'm so glad to be where we are right now. It's such a gift. Such a blessing. and I'm just going to keep doing it. I don't know what we're doing here, George, but whatever it is. I think it's powerful. And I think people are learning and they're sharing and we just haven't seen the fruit of it yet. You know, it's like it's like planting a garden. So like, you know, you get out there in March and you, I don't know what it's you, you can probably grow a garden 24-7.

I don't know. why. The rest of us have these things called seasons, you know. Right. And you get out there in March and you, you know, you tilt that soil, you plant those seeds and you just don't see anything. And then when you finally do, it's so small. And it's like, man, is that really ever going anywhere? But if you start to look at the world and the things that you plant, the ideas that you put out there, the, the investment you make, with your love and your finances and your, you know, your contribution to your local community. It may be just a little seed. It's like if you water that thing and you give it the nutrients it needs, so it does take a little bit of priming the pump.

You've got to invest in the world. You've got to, like you said, you've got to get out there and do something creative. It really is creative because you are an image bearer. of the Creator. We are creators because we were created by a creator in the image of a creator. So when you exercise your creativity, you're doing God stuff. You are you are being, you are exercising oneness with God when you create.

And if you do that with love for your fellow man, I know that sounds like a trope, but it produces beautiful fruit and you can't stop it. It's like that balloon you were talking about. Yeah. They can try to snuff it out and they may make some limited progress. But I think if you have pure intentions of love and service and you plant those seeds, I can't promise you will ever see the fruit of it. but I can promise you that that fruit will come in due time when it's needed and somebody out there may unearth it from your diary, you know, under your great grandchild's burned house, somebody may be digging through the rubble and find this diary or a thumb drive, you know, with whatever your contributions were.

Did you write a blog? Did you keep a diary? Did you write a cookbook? I mean, don't get me started on food, man. I could go all day. But that creative contribution, man, that's God's stuff right there. Like, you're doing God's work when you create. Yeah.

I agree. You're leaving the signature, God's signature on the world, when you embrace the creative experience. And so many people I talk to that do things, always talk about, oh, when I was creating that, I felt like something was working through me. You know, I talked to a lot of authors, and they feel like, I feel like I didn't even write this thing.

You know, I felt like it was writing through me. Listen to Bob Marley, and he always, in one of his famous interviews, he says, oh, yeah, God writes all my songs. You know, and it's so, it's this thread, this Ariadne thread that runs through the, maze of life that yeah the spirit this idea that something greater than us unites us and when I when I look at evolution and I look at where we're at think of people and this may be different for every individual but think of someone you really really admire maybe some people really

admire the ability of Elon must to create a technological world maybe somebody really love the idea of Mother Teresa. Maybe some people really love the idea of Donald Trump or Brock. Whoever it is that you really admire, think about the world is moving in that direction. These people that you admire

and you think are the greatest people in the world, like we're all evolving into the greatest forms of human beings. Let's like, let's, like, the technical prowess of Elon Musk, while he's an individual now, And 10 years from now, we'll all have that prowess. And 15 years from now, we'll all have that.

So the outliers we see today is going to be the average human tomorrow. Like, that's really empowering to think about it. And for me, it gives me the courage to go out there and begin creating something new. And I hope it does for other people. Because that same prowess that is in every outlier out there lies within you. and if you're just willing to go out there and blow on the embers of creativity the fire that will erupt in the minds of men

will be the ability to burn brighter I was going to try to move into a poem right there like tiger tiger burning bright but you know I couldn't put it together right there Clint no need to at least for me because I'll spend enough time camping where first thing I do

I get up in the morning before I make my coffee. I go out there and I dig around in the fire pit where we had the fire from the night before. And I collect those embers. I put a little kindling there. And it's so creative, so magic. All you have to do is apply your breath, like this like spirit. You're like speaking into the embers. And it comes alive.

It's just, it's magic. It's like, it's almost like one plus one equals seven or something. I'm just, you infuse it. You know, it's like one of my favorite things in my Christian experience is the Eucharist, what the common person calls the Lord's Supper. So at the point of the worship service and the mass, when the elements of the bread and the wine are brought forth, and the priest speaks into these things.

You know, this is the body of the Lord Jesus Christ. This is the blood. Like he's speaking that to some degree, and I know Christians disagree with this over time or whatever, whether you believe it as symbolic or potent and accurate, he's breathing into truth, these elements giving life to them

again whether you believe that is real or not is a side issue like that's what we it's the same thing we do when we put our energy into a task into a

into the life of another individual like we have the ability have the ability to breathe life into, into ideas, into our fellow humans, into organizations. And we are creators. And we have creative power if we just exercise it. And I might not always model that to the best I'm trying. I'm trying to be a creator. I'm trying to be more a better. I'm trying to be a better image bearer of the creator by creating.

Take home message. Go out there and create things, people. Come on. That was beautiful. I love it. And send me a link to it. Whatever you're creating, I want to know about it. I want to learn about your podcast.

I want to learn about your cookbook. I want to learn about your. a blog about zoastrianism, whatever. I want to hear it. Yeah. Make it and share it. Put it out there. Inspire people.

People should know that if you think something is interesting, then so too will other people. The things that you're seeking are seeking you. They want to be amplified. And if you're not yourself, then how will your tribe find you? Just begin it. If you can dream it,

you can begin it. And when you begin it, you inspire other people. And it begins this incredible snowball effect. This is such a fascinating. Clint, I love our conversations. Like we just start and then we move down these fascinating roads that are, I feel like I walk away inspired from them, man.

Thank you. I certainly do. Hopefully, hopefully it doesn't end with just me and you. Hopefully everybody out there is learning and growing from this also. Yeah, hopefully we inspire. We'll just have to do it again, won't we? Of course.

We'll keep blowing on the embers and breathing into the ideas and hopefully start a flame that burns bright. You know, at least it's burning bright in us and it gets us through our day and hopefully it gets other people through their day. Because it's, I really want everyone to realize how beautiful they are, how strong they are and how needed they are. More than ever. We need everyone right now to understand their gifts. because the world needs them. And, you know, I, before I let you go, though, Clint, what do you got coming up? Where can people find you?

What are you excited about? Well, I just recorded a podcast yesterday with a gentleman. I'll be sharing that as soon as I get edited. You know, in all my desire to, you know, sacrifice my ego, George, I'm just not there yet to have live podcasts like you do. I don't know why, but eventually I'll get there. So, yeah, once I get this edited and put up, then I'll have a new episode out soon, and people can find that at thepsychadoicristianpodcast.com

or on all their various podcast apps and such, or they can please reach out to me, contact at the psychedelicchristinpodcast.com. And I would love to hear your story. I would love to share your story if you're if you're in any way tangentially connected to the Christian experience and you have thoughts and and ideas concerning psychedelics bring bring them my way I'll I'll hear them all I'll interact with you if you're not comfortable sharing that with the world that's cool too

just share it with me I'm not gonna unveil you to the world or anything, you know. A lot of people are still, you know, in the closet about their interest in such things. And I respect that. Yeah. Especially within a Christian context. I get it. So, yeah, I'm just excited about having more conversations like this, George, because I think when we share this, our ideas, that's what kind of gets back to what we talked about.

We don't longer have to rely on the powers that have been opposed on us. Right. We can actually live beautiful, wholesome lives in community that don't require some gatekeeper to manage our interactions. You know, we can just lovingly share our life with others, just like you and I did. right here. Yeah. You know, in some ways it almost feels like we're going through another reformation where we no longer need an interpreter to tell us the word of God. We no longer need gatekeepers to hold patents or copyrights. It's like we can have the free flowing form of ideas to the internet right now. And I'm so thankful for you and the message you're

putting out with the podcast and the people you have on there and everyone listening today. For everyone listening that may be interested in psychedelics or psilocybin, there's a gentleman right here, Magic Micro. If you Google Magic Micro or MicroCoil, you'll find DOMA Nuncio. And if you go to his website and you type in True Life, he'll give you a break on any product you buy. So go check out DOMA at Magic Micro, Google the Microcoil and check it out for all the listeners on mine and Clint's podcast if that's something you're interested in. but Clint, I'm really thankful for your time. I love the way you see the world, and I love bouncing ideas off you because it makes me sharper,

and they say iron sharpens iron. So thank you for your time. And check out the psychedelic Christian podcast. Check out Clint Kyle's. The links will be in the show notes. Got a great podcast. He's an amazing individual. And I really love sharing time with you.

So that's all we got for today. Ladies and gentlemen, I hope you have a beautiful day. Aloha.