TrueLife - Dr. Jenna Mullen - Experience, Insights, & the Philosophy of Therapy

Episode Date: January 1, 2024

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/🌺 Aloha, dear listeners! 🌟 Today, we have the distinct pleasure of welcoming a truly inspiring guest to our podcast, the incredible Dr. Jenna Mullen. As a Doctor of Physical Therapy, Jenna brings not only professional expertise but a genuine love for people and an unwavering passion for enhancing the quality of life for everyone she encounters.🎓 Jenna's journey is marked by dedication and a commitment to lifelong learning. She earned her Doctorate from The University of Texas Medical Branch in 2014 and has amassed over 15 years of experience in diverse Physical Therapy settings across California, Texas, and the beautiful islands of Hawaii.💖 What makes Jenna's story even more compelling is her personal connection to the transformative power of Physical Therapy. Diagnosed with idiopathic scoliosis at the age of 12, Jenna navigated the challenges with grace, wearing a back brace for a year. However, it was the persistent hip, back, and pelvic pain, along with ongoing bladder issues, that fueled her quest for true solutions.🌟 Jenna's own journey towards relief and understanding the root causes of her discomfort ignited a passion within her. In her mid-to-late 20s, through education and personal experiences with Physical Therapy, she discovered profound relief from years of pain and bladder issues.💪 This transformative experience shaped Jenna's purpose. As a Physical Therapist, she encountered countless women grappling with similar pains that had intensified over the years. Driven by her passion to empower individuals to lead their best lives, Jenna envisioned a proactive approach – one that asks, "What if these women had access to education and assistance earlier in life?" This question fueled her desire to establish Nalu Physical Therapy, a place where she could provide education, support, and solutions to women, enabling them to prevent or alleviate personal issues and truly live their best lives.🌊 Join us in this enlightening conversation with Dr. Jenna Mullen as we delve into her journey, her commitment to holistic well-being, and her mission to empower women through Nalu Physical Therapy. 🌺 #EmpowerWithJenna #PhysicalTherapyJourney #LiveYourBestLifehttps://www.naluphysicaltherapy.com/ One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark. fumbling, furious through ruins maze,

lights my war cry, born from the blaze. The poem is Angels with Rifles. The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Serafini. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Over to this sign. Okay. All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the True Life podcast.

I hope everybody is having a beautiful day. I hope your Christmas went well. I hope you have plans for the New Year's. I hope you get to be in the arms of the person with whom you are in love with. And, yeah, I hope that everything is going amazing for everybody today. I have an incredible guest for you, Dr. Jenna Mullen. I just lost her picture, though. I'm not sure.

There she is. I'm back. Sorry about that. That's all right. It happens to the best of us. We're here and then we disappear. We're trying to stay in the moment. But I have an incredible guest, ladies and gentlemen.

And it's my distinct pleasure to welcome an inspiring guest, the incredible Dr. Jenna Mullen. As a doctor of physical therapy, Jenna brings out not only professional expertise, but a genuine love for people and an unwavering passion for enhancing the quality of life for everyone she encounters. Gina's journey is marked by dedication

and a commitment to lifelong learning. She earned her doctorate from the University of Texas Medical Branch in 2014 and has amassed over 15 years of experience in diverse physical therapy settings across California, Texas, and the beautiful islands of Hawaii. What makes Jenna's story even more compelling is her personal connection to the transformative power of physical therapy.

Diagnosed with idiopathic scoliosis at the age of 12, what? Jenna navigated the challenges with Grace, wearing a back brace for over a year, having it, however, it was the persistent hip-back in pelvic pain along with ongoing issues that fueled her quest for true solutions. Her own journey towards belief and understanding, the root causes of her discomfort ignited a passion within her. In her mid to late 20s through education and personal experience with physical therapy,

she discovered profound relief from years of pain. Jenna, thank you so much. Dr. Jenna, thank you so much for being here today. How are you? Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here and talking with you. And I'm doing well. Thank you.

Yeah. It's such an exciting time we live in. And I'm always curious when I talk to someone for the first time. Like, I've read a little bit about some of the things you're doing and what kind of got you on your journey. But maybe you can give us a little bit more of a foundation. Like, who were you before you became the person you are today? Yeah, that's a good question. I feel like it's evolving, you know, total evolution all the time.

But so, yeah, I think, you know, my journey, as you touched on, you know, began when I was, young and I had an aunt who was a physical therapist and so she definitely helped me a lot like when I had scoliosis and giving me you know tools and things to work on and that was definitely a challenging time but I feel like my body has been my biggest guiding light and educator you know and has just kind of taken me on this path of you know finding my own healing and like answers to things I'm experiencing and connecting with people and and then with her guidance of like, why don't you think about what I do? You know, I've always been in the field of like physical therapy and and healing and wanting to bring healing and hope, you know, to other people. And so I, yeah, went to school, I guess, yeah, kind of fast forward here, but went to school in Texas.

I'm from California and found an amazing. amazing school that had a global health program that really called to me. And then in that, in the three years that I was at in physical therapy school, I did a rotation on Maui. Nice. And fell in love with Hawaii. And so when I graduated, I was like, okay, how can I get back there? You know, and so ended up taking a job working with kids of special needs in the schools. And I did that for nine years and loved it and still feel connected to those children and their families and the teachers that I worked with. And I, because the school job is so flexible and time and everything, and I didn't have kids of my own, I was always, I'm busy and always kind of like learning and, you know, loving to challenge myself. I always had jobs like on the side.

And so I worked in the skilled nursing facilities and outpatient clinic and always was doing like public floor therapy on the side as well. And so I felt like that was kind of my passion project. I loved my kids so much. I couldn't ever imagine like leaving that job. But, you know, I began to like really feel connected to these women that I was helping. And so, yeah, when COVID hit, I was like, was like, you know, we don't know if we're going to have a job. And it's just kind of that like this like, you know, you work for somebody else.

You don't know what's going to happen. And I just felt like we needed like control, you know, more of like, yeah. So I had already had that idea of like starting my own practice in my head. But I thought when I'm grown up, you know. So finally COVID hit and it was like, well, why not try? So I started my own practice then, but it was just like helping friends and, you know, just something on the side. And then a year later and became, you know, pregnant with my son. And yeah, I was just kind of like, well, this is good, like to have, you know, my own business and helping women and already like preparing for pregnancy and all of that.

And so having my son and going through that experience really made me. me realize just how important pelvic floor therapy is and really the holistic approach, you know, that I try to bring to that. And so that's now, kind of where I am right now, is I really focus on helping pregnant and postpartum women and postpartum meaning like 20 years even, you know, 30 years. Like it doesn't have to mean just right after you have a baby. But, you know, I think a lot of women have issues well, you know, later in life that started because they had children. So anyway, that's where, yeah, I'm at right now and enjoying my time with my almost two-year-old. And my husband is such a big support.

And, yeah, couldn't do it without him as well. So that's a short snippet of my life. It's amazing. I love to hear the way in which people's lived experience translates into the way in which they can help people throughout the world, you know, in their practice and in their ideas and everything they do. And it sounds to me that the way, it sounds to me that COVID, but for a lot of people, was like this transition or almost like a wake up to your true spirit and your true nature. Is that kind of how it was for you? It sounded like things kind of changed at that point in time. Oh, my gosh.

Yeah, I think I always think of it as like a sifter, you know, it's like we had and it was just like, okay, now do something with that, you know? Yeah. You know, so just it really like challenged like who we are and and what makes us happy. Like I think it made us question like, what is important in your life? And it really took away everything and it's like we had to like piece back together. like who we want to be, like what we want in our lives, you know, and the people that we want in our lives. And yeah, I think, I think, you know, everyone had their own experience, right? Some had it harder than others and others, you know, like we were grateful to be able to keep the jobs that we had.

Yeah. We didn't know. And so that was scary because everyone was like, what's going to happen? You know, but so, yeah, there was a lot of good. you know, and things that we are grateful to make it through that time with. But it definitely, like, shook things up. And a lot of my friends left Hawaii. And so that was hard to lose them.

But also, like, just seeing that that was where their life needed to go. And amazed that, like, my husband and I are still here after, you know, almost a decade of living here, nine and half years. It's like, wow. So this is, yeah, just a place that I think a lot of people come, whether they know it or not, come for healing. Yeah. And I think that's always been, I think that's subconsciously like what drew me here. I think I needed to grow and heal.

And then now I'm like feeling like, okay, I am, you know, better and held by the space that we have here. and now I can bring that to others. And yeah, I don't know. I've seen even you talking about COVID. Like I think that brought even more people here that needed more healing too. Yeah. There's something spiritual about it on some level. Like it nourishes your soul.

But maybe this is a good segue into, is there a spiritual component to physical therapy? It seems like when you're, when you are, I wrote down. on something here that oh that I thought was relevant that this something along the lines of um on some level I think that PT is almost like like like a like when you really get into like the flow state or when you start doing this physical therapy and you feel this sort of connectedness it takes you away from the idea of separation and individuation and sometimes I think that that is part of the problem like we get so in our own heads and we're so individualized when you start moving your body and you start figuring out like hey I'm a little bit more limberra.

more flexible. I can see things a little bit better. But is there like a spirit? Have you noticed that? Is there a spiritual component to the physical therapy? Oh, yes. A hundred percent. I mean, I fully believe that and, um, and feel that and try to bring that to my patients and actually try to, in a way, like let that be my guiding light to healing other people. Like, it's not me, you know? It's like, I'm trying to deepen. their relationship with themselves and show them things about their body and, you know, be a guide towards them knowing themselves better on a physical and also mental and spiritual level. And so that's actually in my logo.

I don't know. It's a triangle. And it's like there's a lot of, you know, layers to that. I love it. Yeah. But part of that is this body, mind, and spirit. And how, you know, it's like that. that they're all connected and they all touch each other and healing in one area is going to impact

all other areas of our life and so you know people come to me for that body healing that body piece of the the triangle but if done properly you know that's going to impact and improve all aspects of their life i've had some clients where working together i i don't know if they would ever like piece it together, but I've seen where they were then open to seeking like going to, you know, a mental health therapist, you know, or something where it's like, I think from body healing, we're able to get to a place where they were able to have more clarity in their own life. And, you know, maybe I'm not the one that can help all those pieces. But like, then they were like ready for that next level of healing.

Yeah, I think it speaks to the idea of alignment. you know, when someone's body is out of a line, whether it's scoliosis or whether it is, you know, someone with a hip problem, like you walk a little weird or as a, you know, as a UPS show for a long time, I'd hurt my knee and like the whole side of my body would hurt. And I was like, oh, I'm totally out of alignment.

Like I'm not doing the right thing. But that makes sense if your body's not in alignment, then your mind's probably not in alignment. If your mind's not in alignment, your health's not in alignment. If you change one thing, you change everything. It seems like on some level, right? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I've seen it. And I think on the flip side, you know, somebody that is coming in and is not fully ready for healing, you know, or like when I, you know, worked in other insurance practice, you know, it's like their doctor sent them here and they were not ready, you know? And it's like, you could just feel that resistance or they really needed to like get in their body before you could impact their physical healing at all. You know, it's just like,

you gave them all the right exercises you told them how many times to do it and it's like you know they were not there um and so I think you know that's why it's nice when the person is like ready or they're open to like okay I know you know I have this knee pain but like I don't know it's like they they get that yeah they're they're ready for that on like more than just I need to get rid of this because that's a small piece of who we are and part of you know, a small piece of healing and feeling whole. It's like, yeah, the physical pains that we feel, sometimes it's like the end of the line.

So, you know, it's like it started with stress management or a trauma, you know, or something. And then it's like trickling, trickling, like impacting the organs of the body. And then that's creating tension in the body that's changing how our breathing is and then it's like impacting our pelvic floor and then we're having hip pain or we're having bladder leakage or you know knee pain like most knee pain comes from either the hip or the foot you know it's like so a lot of times the pain that we're feeling it's just um a symptom it's just the messenger and the cause you know could be way up at the neck or an emotional you know something

we haven't dealt with, which is getting out there, especially for business therapists, you know, but it's like that gets held in the body and creates tension. And then it's like, you know, a chain reaction. So that's, it's fascinating. I didn't even put that together, but there's a real chance that, at least in my life, it was my misplaced anger that caused my body to start giving out in some ways. And I never heard it put that way. But yeah, why wouldn't it be a symptom or why couldn't it be a symptom of a problem that you've refused to deal with for 15 or 20 years. Like that makes total sense. Like your body is like, okay, I've had enough.

You got to do something about this. That can lead to bad relationships. It could lead to, you know, misplaced anger or abuse on some level, maybe physical or emotional. It's so interesting to think about that sort of interconnectedness that's all, I guess that's the beauty of the triangle of the Nalu, right? Right. Yeah.

Yeah. yeah, no, it's been, and I am a forever learner, you know, I feel like the more you know, the more you realize you don't know. Right, right. What happens, but, but a few years back, I've, I've, it just became, you know, through some coursework that I started to follow and learn. It's like kind of that deeper understanding of the body and what's happening on the inside and not just like, oh, elbow, knee, you know, shoulder, neck. And it's crazy that like we even

break our body up into those little sex, you know, and so it just like burst my, you know, that bubble that how I was trained, you know, for physical therapy school on and, and just like thinking about the body in a completely different way. And deepening my knowledge of anatomy of what's going on deep in our system and like how our bladder is through facial lines and is connected to the liver, you know, even that's like mind blowing, but how all of that can can impact, you know, healing and how the liver might be, especially kind of with Eastern medicine approach, like the liver can be the holder of anger and unprocessed deep emotions like that. And so we have, you know, creating tension within that, it can trickle down to bladder leakage or really like then, you know, knee pain or something like that.

So, yeah, it's like I'm still learning all that. And but being able to like feel, you know, if I have a patient laying on my table and I'm, you know, helping like, I'm mobilizing and moving her uterus and she's feeling the back pain that she's had 30 for 30 years. And it's like, whoa, where is that coming from? You're impacting it in a completely different part of my body that I didn't even know I could access. You know, it's mind-blowing. And it's led me to be more and more curious about what's really going on and how our body works together. And I feel it's just, I'm just like an iceberg, you know, tip of the iceberg, this knowledge. It's exciting.

It is exciting. And it's, it must be exciting to be able to help people move through. the dilemma or move through the pain on some level. On some level, like I feel like our culture is absent of rites of passage. And I'm curious as a mother, as someone who's given birth to a child, like, that's an incredible right of passage. It's an incredible

ceremony in some ways. And even though it's celebrated, it's not really celebrated, at least with the people I know, like there's not a group of women that get together and explain, at least not in my family like, hey, this is going to happen to you. Here's some things that are going to happen afterwards. Here's some ways to fix it. I think that's kind of unique to one of your messages that you are helping the sort of right of passage afterwards. Like, it's kind of unique.

Can you speak more to that idea? Yeah. Yeah, that's beautiful. I think that it is almost like it's a sad thing that we don't celebrate, you know, birth and women. men's bodies, but, you know, not just to, like, silo women. I think men's bodies are amazing, too, you know, and we can't do it without you. But, but this, this amazing experience and what our body is able to go through in such a short time span, you know, I used to think, you know,

when I was sitting in physical therapy school, like, learning about, like, the pregnant body, and I'm just like, who would ever do that to themselves? Never having kids, you know? And then fast forward 10 years, and I'm very grateful for, you know, that experience. And but it is an amazing experience and that our body is capable of that. It just, it is something to be revered. And I think it's sad how our culture just like, oh, you're broken now, you know. Like I have a friend who's like, oh, you help broken vaginas.

you know, sorry. You have to have a good sister to see you remote. Yeah, of course. So, but, you know, it's just like that, you know, that idea and like this same person, I appreciate having him as a friend because he's like, you know, kind of, he'll say kind of, I think what people usually don't. And he's just like, yeah, why do women breastfeed so long, you know? It's like they ruin their boobs, you know.

And so it's like, I think that's just that's the typical. mindset of this but yet I never really thought that I would enjoy breastfeeding and like have like appreciate my body even more after going you know through pregnancy like there's so much and this can be such an amazing opportunity for women to really come into their power you know I think a lot of that power is taken from us when we go to the doctor to you know get on birth control and like I'm not downplaying that, but at the same time, it's like we're giving away this ability to really understand our bodies and our cycle. And, you know, I think we've just come so far away from who we were, you know, 100 plus years ago, way before that too. You know, it's like, and where we're

in tune with the earth rhythms. And so, you know, trying to find this balance of like modern life and acknowledging where we are. And also trying to be in. in tune with our innate self. And I think motherhood and, you know, birthing and all of that is an amazing opportunity to come into that, like, you know, who we really are. And even if it's just a short glimpse, it's like, wow. And I have some patients that are like, I want to walk in. I want an epidural. Like, you know, I want to lay here, have this baby.

Yeah. Sometimes it works out for him. And then others are like, I want a natural birth, you know, in a tub. I want a birth in the ocean with the dolphins. And it's like just they want to feel that animalistic, you know. And so it's just like, you know, and totally different experiences. And women today, you know, have kind of have that opportunity to choose. But sometimes life chooses a different path.

And so that's real too. That's something that I try to prepare women for. If they're like, I want a natural birth. It's like, you know, baby might have another idea. So let's at least open your mind to other possibilities so that you are aware because I've seen traumas come when women just don't know. And then they feel like it's happening to them. But if I can help them feel a sense of control because they've done all they can to prepare. and now you can let go and let what baby needs happen or, you know, because there's so many

things with this time in our life that we don't have control over. And so just educating women on that can really, I think, give them peace and security and calmness and just knowing that they're prepared the best that they can. So, yeah, it's an amazing time. And I'm so blessed to, like, be sitting with, you know, myself and that. this time and helping other women in this time. Yeah. Yeah. It's what a what a cool gift to get to and it speaks volumes of your character to be able to be in that position where you can see the different states not only of the body but of like the psychological profile and some of the things

that come up and you know, maybe maybe this speaks to earlier in the conversation when you first moved out here, you were working with special needs kids. How did that relationship help you understand, you know, more about relationships? It sounds to me like you would see the kids, you'd see their families. And that probably gave you some really interesting insights into relationships about life and motherhood and fatherhood and being kids. Like, you could speak to how that changed you as far as understanding relationships. Yeah. Oh my gosh. So much. I learned so much from my kids, you know? And a lot of the kids, so if you think of, you know, kids with special needs, a lot of times we think, you know, speech therapy.

There's a lot of speech therapists in the schools, and we think, you know, autism and there's occupational therapists. A lot of times they're helping kids with, like, sensory issues for physical therapy. A lot of people don't even know. There's physical therapists, you know, in the schools. and I helped a lot of the kids that primarily had gross motor issues where they, you know, had issues walking, going up and downstairs, things like that. And the range was wide. So some, you know, were they couldn't move at all and had, you know, really high tone and were kind of like in these tightened positions. And then others, you know, they just needed a little bit of help to be able to go up.

and downstairs or something like that. So a wide variety. But one thing I learned is just how special every, you know, every child is. And I would really try to like see who they were, like even if they couldn't speak, you know, just talk to them and treat them like just a normal person and just to see that connection in their eyes. And just, just, their calmness, you know, when I would come versus maybe like a new person walking in or something. You know, it's just like understanding that we had built a trust and relationship, even without that communication, our typical communication. But the bigger picture of the family, seeing how parents came together with the team of the school,

We have an annual meeting, an IEP meeting, where we talk about the kids' individualized education plan. And so it was nice to touch base with the family every year. And some we had good relationships, others, you know, it was okay. But just understanding, you know, getting a glimpse of how difficult it must have been for them to have this idea, especially now as a parent, have this idea that it started during pregnancy of like, you have this kid, you know, that is going to come into your life and, you know, our society is just like, oh, you got to get the stroller, you got to get, you know, all these things.

And then they have this perception of what this child and this life is going to be like and what it's going to be like for their family. And then, you know, maybe something happened in utero. Something happened during birth. And things changed. And for the parents, knowing that I was meeting them when the child was about three years old or even later in life, you know, what they had gone through up to that point and how strong they were, how resilient they were and are, you know, it's just. It was amazing to see. And the variety of families, you know, everyone I think is trying to do with the best that they can.

Some families, like, you know, just went above and beyond. And maybe they had the means that they could, you know, take their kids to, you know, access surf, which is like a, they have equipment for people with special needs. Oh, I lost you there. Do all kinds of things. Right. In the water. And then, you know, or horseback riding, things that we have on the island that cater to people with disabilities.

Yeah. And then others, it's like you're just trying to get them to show up to a meeting, you know? It's just like this wide range of care that these children get. But knowing that no matter how that person or parent shows up, like, just this acknowledgement and, like, understanding just a piece of their life and how, like, challenging it is to just be a parent. but then to see, like, you know, they have that extra layer of the amount of doctors visits they have to go to an appointments and equipment that they need to get. So a lot of people think, oh, how did you do that? It's so sad.

But it's like, no, like, one, I learned so much for that. And two, it's like I get to be the best part of their day, you know? And like sometimes they just want to get up and move, you know? and get in their standard that helps them be able to stand up right so that they can look people in the eye. Like, I get to help them with that and train people to help them with that every day. Like, it was such an amazing, yeah, experience. I love the, I love it. I think that that speaks volumes of why you're really good at what you do.

you know, the way we show up in life and the way we see our situation is usually a pretty big barometer of who we are on the inside. And how do you think it trained, like, I don't want to say trained, but on some level, it showed you a way you can be. And it gave you a unique perspective in your own life. What are some things that you do in your own life now because you went through that particular section of life or because you were you were able to do that for people what are some lessons that you've learned there that you apply in your life now and you can help that you maybe

you teach other people yeah i think i think the biggest thing you know is gratitude and just you know being grateful for everything that we have and um you know mobility and you know being a big piece of that, but just everything. And it's not, you know, just that, but people in our lives and different, you know, experiences. It's just like, you heard about, you know, that friend of yours that passed away that it's just like, they're my age. Like, you know, I'm like, I really have to be grateful because it can be taken from us like that. And so, and I think, you know, in physical therapy, I had, so if I can kind of think back to my, yeah, um, When I was even before physical therapy school, I was in my undergrad.

And I think a very poignant experience that I had that really impacted my life was this lady who said, you know, my husband and I retired. And we thought we were going to travel the world. And he ended up getting like, I forgot his medical something. And then she was in the physical therapy clinic that I was working at because she needed, you know, a double knee replacement. And she's like, I don't ever be able to go anywhere now. And I'm just like, she's like, so travel and do everything you can while you're young. Okay, okay, I promise, you know. And I did, you know, and we're here in Hawaii because of that.

I think, you know, it's just it's that I'm always reminding myself and now my son. You know, my husband and I try to talk about it. It's just like, you know, we lay in bed and just talk about at the end of the day all the things that we're grateful for. like the roof over our head and, you know, just basic things. Like we try to live a minimalist life and minimalist life and just enjoy nature and the people and relationships and trying to find, you know, gratitude in the simple things and that we don't need a lot to be happy. So I think that's the biggest thing is, yeah, just kind of that we don't need a lot.

we don't need a lot to be happy, I think, and soaking up every day and not getting caught in, caught up in the rat race and, like, the stresses because it doesn't matter. And I think we talk about COVID. Like, I think that's also a thing that it was just like, it doesn't matter. And we can make it matter. But then at the end of the day, like, what happens? You're just sitting here stressed out about something that you can't impact in that very moment and then, you know, bringing it back to all that, like, the, you know, how our body can be impacted by, like, our stress and everything and stress hormones and what we think about

impacts us on, like, a visceral level. And it's like, why? Why go through that experience? You know, so I was like, just try to observe myself, you know? I also kind of try to apply like, you know, the Buddhist principles and, you know, and meditate as well. I think that's also something I know if I haven't been into like a, even just a simple meditation practice or breathing practice. Like I notice it where it's like I'm getting caught up in those feelings. So trying to come back to all these things and just like, it doesn't matter. Yeah.

I love it. it's interesting and I too am a huge fan of nature and I think everybody that that I think everybody's probably a fan of nature once they sit around a beautiful area or they go on a hike or they go to the beach and in Hawaii it's very difficult to not be in awe of the environment in which you're surrounded by and I'm often I'm often mesmerized by there's almost like a language in nature when you go out and like you look at the trees or you look at the plants and if you stare long enough or if you just sit with it long enough it's almost like secrets are revealed to you. You know, sometimes I watch this vine. I have this vine that climbs up a tree at my house. And I sit out there and I think to myself, how does it know to climb up 30% of the tree? And then on July 9th, that 222, it releases this flower at a 35 degree angle,

you know, right when the sun is at a zenith, it's like, how does it know that? And then all of a sudden it hits me like, how do I know how to live my best life? And you're like, oh, that's nature just talking to me. Like it's going to be all right. Like there's a plan in place. And if you worry about climbing up the tree the wrong way, like just stop. Just be in the moment. It's interesting.

What do you think about like the nature of language? Are you about like, is that too far out there? Do you see it too? Are you incorporated into the world you're doing? And what do you think about that? Yeah. No, that's beautiful idea. I mean, even just the simplicity of color, you know,

and I think there's been enough research of like blues, you know, right behind me, the ocean. blues and greens, you know, are calming to our system. And it's like, okay, I don't think that's coincidence. You know, it's like that is nature, you know. So I think, yeah, just how we feel in those moments of silence and, you know, silencing all the noise of the world, the lights of the world, and getting out in nature.

And it's like there is a language. I never really piece that together as it's, own communication, but there is so much, it's just a quieter voice and we have to really listen, you know, on that level. When we're used to a, you know, world that's shouting at us and blinking at us and it's like, you have to be aware and really like want that, I think, or you're forced into it because you've hit rock bottom, you know. But I think, you know, if we can choose to to listen and be in nature and silence it and silence the world. I think, man, we really can learn so much about ourselves. And I mean, I think we used to do before we had kids, you know,

we used to do a lot more like hikes. And I've hiked Haleakala on Maui. There's the craters. And so we have a group of friends that we would try to do that hike with. Not annually, but, you know, maybe we would at least try annually, and it would be bi-annually. But just meeting some of these people for the first time and doing this hike together, we became best friends, you know? Because it's like you're going through such a tough experience and being out in nature and just the conversations that would come and the like how it would just help us like tap into this real authentic, you know, ourselves.

And it's like, I felt like I got to know that I've known them. for five years and I've known them for a weekend really you know it's just it it does something to our souls that um nothing else can yeah I love that it's a great way to to put it and there is something that when you share a relationship not only with someone but the environment it's like it's like an altered state of conscience like you're all identifying on this other level and you're being affected by the song of nature, be it the wind or the environment, the flowers, or just the terrain. You really get to have a different perspective and how you fit into the world.

It's mesmerizing to me to think about that. I don't know. You also have like a really strong commitment to education. And it seems like you're always learning, whether it's going hiking with friends on Maui or learning about the body or starting to. to learn about like the Buddhism or the Eastern traditions. What do you, is it just a natural sense of curiosity? Have you always been curious or what,

how did you have this affinity for learning so much? Oh, that's a, I've never thought about like that being an origin story. I'm not sure. That's interesting. I definitely have always had that. Yeah, I guess it stems from a curiosity of like, I have this deep understanding of like, or wanting, I guess, a deep understanding. And it's always that, why is it that way, though?

You know, and not, I'm not rebellious by any means. Maybe I actually should be more. Right. But, but even still, like, I would, you know, conform, but also, like, why are we doing this, though? Even though, you know, I might keep it to myself, but always curious about the why. And I think when, you know, I was trying to figure out what path of education I wanted to do early on, I remember thinking if I became a physical therapy assistant, PTA, not a PTA. That would be so much easier because it's like two year certification versus like, you know, an extra three years of, you know, a doctorate program on top of, you know, your four year degree and all. this and just like you just follow what somebody tells you to do like they create a plan and then you

work with the patient which is the best part you know you're working with that patient directly and helping them like figure out the how to do the exercises that this PT said they should do to get this goal or you know achieve their goal right and I just remember thinking that for like a second like maybe I should be a PTA and I was like I know I wouldn't be happy because I'd always be like well, why? Why? You know? So I think, yeah, it's probably innate. I don't know how much was nature and nurture, but I've always had that, like, trying to, I'm wanting to understand on a deeper level.

And I think my body, you know, has been a guide, like I said. And then that question of just like, but why has other guide. Yeah. I think when I work with a patient and I'm able to get them, you know, reach this goal, but maybe there's like a cap and we're trying other things to get them even, you know, feeling even better or their bladder urgency even better. And it's like, why can't we improve it, you know, past that? And so I think that has like led me to thinking and, you know,

I guess furthering my education in other areas because it's like, oh, a traditional physical therapy like approach for this should have worked. And it did for these seven other patients. Why isn't it working for this one? And so it's like chasing that question, you know, it's led me further to understanding I don't know anything. It's true. It's true that the deeper you go, the bigger it gets. You know, it's like a flashlight always illuminates the fact that there's way more darkness around you. Like, oh my God, it's so dark in here. I can only see this little focus of light, but the question of why is so important. And I think it speaks, it probably speaks to the idea of the symbolic nature of your logo of that triangle. It's like, well, why? Oh, with this side,

well, why this side? You know, and if, is that something that you incorporate into, the actual practice is, is helping the people understand why they have this pain? It seems like that would be therapeutic in its own nature. Yeah. That's, yeah, I do. I don't know if it's so much like part of my process other than I'm usually talking out loud. Yeah, yeah. Okay, we found out that you have, you know, this on this hip and, you know, this is being

cooled up a little bit higher than the other. but why? And I do that and they're like, yeah. You know? I think they would have been okay with the first answer, but then I post that one, you know, and it's like, yeah. So I invite them on this journey with me

to find the root cause, you know, because I'm not happy unless we figure out, you know, what's really going on. And I feel like I'm learning and gaining the tools to dive deeper. Where before it was just like, oh, well, we're not sure, you know, maybe we'll send you back to your doctor and be like, physical therapy didn't work, you know? And it's like, I'm not okay with that answer, you know. And I have recognized that like I, okay, this is my own coin term.

I have what's called a Jesus syndrome. Okay. Where I feel like I, you know, try to and want to be that healer. and like I grew up Christian and just I think I really loved everything that Jesus did. You know, it was just like, I want to be like him. And, you know, we're taught to do that. But like, no, I want to heal like him, you know. And I think it was almost to the point where it's like, you know, problematic because like we can't, right?

But anyway, I have coined that term because I've had to like, realize and recognize that like, okay, you're trying to heal this person, but they are on their own journey. And so I've had to kind of unlearn and like rewire my brain to be like, no, I'm a guide. I have a set of knowledge and skills and experience that I am bringing to the table. And they can, you know, choose to take from this or not. They can choose to go to someone else or maybe there's, you know, acupuncturist or chiropractor or, you know, some other healer that really should also be helping them or instead of, I'm open to all of that.

But if they choose to take from my experience, then I offer them the best that I can. And that has allowed, well, it just takes a weight off. Yeah, yeah. Weight of like trying to heal the world. And like, but it's, it really puts, puts it back in their court where it needs to be because it's their body.

It's their journey. It's their mind. And I felt that patients, like, yeah, it's, they respond well to that too. And I think me educating them on their body and showing them this little picture of like, okay, this is what I'm seeing. You move in this way and that's probably what's causing your hip pain. Let's see where that tightness is coming from. And maybe that's where my unique expertise and learning how to listen to the body and, you know, release some tension that maybe has been there for a while.

And then they're like, oh, yeah, that feels different. Well, now it's in their court to then, you know, keep that breathing happening that helped open up that tissue or, you know, that exercise to strengthen in this new alignment, you know. So it's back and forth, but it's very much, you know, supporting this. their journey. I love that. I love the language you use about, I invite them to go on this journey with me to help heal themselves, you know, the idea that the idea and the recognition and the humility to understand that the healing happens inside the body for someone else. And you don't want them to like depend on you to be like, you're not the, you're not the person. Like that's how addiction happens in my opinion. Like people say, okay, well, I need to go here. I need to. I need to

this pill or I need this thing or be better. What they really need is the tools to understand what their problem is and understand why they're feeling this way, why they have this thing. And then you empower them to figure out how to fix that problem. It's like that old saying, if you give them out a fish, you'll eat for a day. But if you teach them out of fish, you'll eat for a lifetime. And it just seems like I love the way you use the idea of a guide. Like that seems like such a more of a holistic approach.

And I'm really thankful to hear that. No wonder people want to come to you and hang out with you and come to you for guidance because you're showing them how to fix problems that can deal with them. Isn't it, do you find that people that come to you? It seems to be the people in pain, they often have other problems. Like it can manifest in their relationships too. Have you noticed that people that start healing their body start healing their relationships? Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yes. I think, hmm. I'm trying to think of an example, but I do think it impacts, you know, like we said, all that will ask their life. I think the thing that comes to my quickest for me is people that come, you know, like with a lot of anxiety. And it's like you can just see it. Sometimes in the email, the first email they send to me, the first point of contact, I'm like, I think I get this person a little bit. you know it's like you know I try not to let my brain go to like too far but right just be present and listen to them um and give them that opportunity and not create this idea of who I think they

are before I even meet them but um but with that being said uh experience has taught me that like you know people that are anxious and have that like more up you know nervous system a lot of times have issues that bring them to me because it's impacting, you know, every part of their system. Yeah. And I think on a relationship level, it depends, but I do see that that can trickle into, you know, relationships with how they see their kids or, you know, their spouse. And so I hope that I can be kind of this like calming, grounding energy, you know, when they come to see me. And a lot of them do feel like, man, I leave here and I feel so calm.

And it's like, okay, take that into your life. And with your children and just realize hopefully that, you know, they don't, they don't have to live here. And they can experience a lower, calmer vibration and have that impact their life. I mean, I try not to be like, oh, yeah, I help them with their relationships as well. But just hopefully, you know, yeah, hopefully it can spread on a small level that, yeah, maybe years later impacts them on a deeper level. Yeah, it makes sense. If you can figure out how to have a better relationship with your body, then the people in your life are an extension of that body, you know, and you would probably change your relationship.

Have you noticed any sort of similarities or differences? Like, is there, and this is just, maybe just your opinion on this is that are there some similarities between depression and different parts of the body versus anxiety and different parts of the body? Like I don't know if those things are even connected, but have you noticed any sort of similarities between certain ailments and certain parts of the body? Hmm. You know, I'm not sure.

I maybe in more, you know, five years, I will have an amazing. answer for you. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, research is just really coming out and showing, like, how all of that is played out in our, in our body and our mind and our gut, right? Yeah. Yep.

So intertwined. And I think it's just being absorbed by mainstream, like, you know. So, but, you know, what comes to mind, this is probably not interesting. your question but what comes to mind is postpartum depression and how you know that is kind of getting more of a microphone um than used to which is good it deserves that but i have had i will say more friends and patients with postpartum anxiety whoa i did not even know before having a kid that that existed it's only postpartum depression right and then like a lot of my the the patients and and friend that I'm thinking of, it's like they were so anxious about everything and didn't even

realize it and didn't have anxiety before. Like this came after having their baby. And so that just, I don't know if it comes from a different part of the body, but I just, I think it's interesting, you know, one that it came, you know, after their body went through a big change. And then, thank goodness they were aware of it and then sought help and you know both of them I I only have a couple experiences both of them were seeing um a mental health specialist and were put on like a low very low dose of um anti anxiety medication and they both were like a light lifted like I had this clarity of like why am I so anxious you know it's so they both had a goal of like getting off of it as soon as they go.

But yeah, I don't know much about that other than it's just like that was news to me that that's real. Yeah. You mentioned the word aware. Like what role does awareness play in the people that come to you and the way you interact with people? It's huge. I will tell patients, I'm like, you know, the light might go on on like, how their posture is and how that plays into their pelvic floor, you know, symptoms that they're experiencing or tightness in their neck or back. And I'm like, okay, you're aware of it. And,

you know, that's the first piece. And maybe that's all we had was bringing that awareness to them and giving them one exercise to work on their breathing or something. That's all we got through the first session. And sometimes that's like a lot for them, you know. So, So, yeah, the quote that comes to mind, I think it's Theodore Roosevelt that says, you know, if you believe you can, you're halfway there. And I fully believe that. And I think that can be, belief can be awareness. You know, if you're aware that you are, you know, or whatever XYZ is, you're halfway there.

Yeah. That's huge. It's just helping people feel their body and come into their body. is so healing and sometimes that can help so many issues that they're having, that awareness can be like, yeah, the foundation point for most of the healing that they need. It's interesting. I've been speaking to some people pretty recently that have brought up some really interesting articles that talk about like sound and frequency and like the magnetic.

like the electromagnetic fields around us and stuff. Have you ever like dove into any of that to like see how that might be affecting people? I really spoke to this woman yesterday who was speaking about like the magnetic field of the heart. And like that that's how you can when she was explaining it. She did a really great job at explaining the way in which she gave an example of how she used to work in this really low income neighborhood. And when people would come to the door, she could just see the level of stress on their face. this person is going through a lot right now. And you could feel it.

And she equated that feeling to almost like the same feeling you get when you push magnets together. You know, and it's like it makes so much sense in so many ways. Do you have any thoughts on that? Yeah. Oh, I have a lot. Okay. Awesome. That's heroes.

I, this is an area. I mean, I'm so open to and so interested in. And I'm so grateful that like, you know, we're technology is finally catching up. and we're able to like measure these things, you know, that I think have been felt by the human, you know, race and animals and everything for millennia. But it's just, I mean, I think this is part of, if not most of what, you know, Eastern medicine has kind of been aware of and grounded in. And Western, you know, is now acknowledging a little bit because, because, yeah, the research is finally able to do it. we can study it, which is fine, you know, but. Yeah.

So I'm, I will say, I don't know a ton about it, but I can feel it. Like that is what, you know, and I don't do Reiki or anything, but I use a technique called visceral manipulation or visceral mobilization. And it's like where we learn to train our hand to feel the different tissues and the different layers of the body. And it's becoming very sensitive to all of those things. things, but also once you get to, let's say, the liver, for instance, and you're, you know, you know the anatomy and everything. It's very eastern meets western, I think. It's grounded in

anatomy, but there is this energetic piece to it. And you're listening to, you know, this organ. And I mean, I can only say it's that energetic field that I can feel this gentle, like, pulsing and each organ has their own rhythm, their own pulsing and movement to it. And it's beautiful to like tap into. And I've also felt that magnetic either pull or push. Yeah. What's interesting, you know, working with pregnant women and doing like, you know, internal like public floor work and preparing the muscles for birth or helping them, you know, with pain or things like that, there's been times where it's like, I feel that magnet. It's almost like you're pushing, you know, the wrong ends of a magnet.

Yeah, totally. I feel that. And I'm like, okay, baby, I get it, you know. It's so interesting. And, you know, I can't fully explain it. And I definitely have that why. Like, what is going on? you know, this curiosity. And so again, that's the driving force of like furthering my education and knowledge

and skill set and all of this in addition to, you know, the typical physical therapy, you know, realm and all the tools that we have with that and mindset of that. So, but broadening to that and knowing that there is more going on. And I've been able to help patients knowing that on a deeper level. And so I'm just, you know, even if it isn't like, let's say it isn't like we don't know enough. And, you know, there is that like what's really happening. We don't know enough. Well, we know something is going on.

So why not just trust the body, you know, trust that there's something else there that we don't understand. And that's okay. And if we can reach, you know, one person and help them find a deeper healing because of that, then it's worth questioning. It's worth understanding deeper, you know, a deeper level on. Yeah. I love it. It's, and it's almost right.

It's right in the body. Like people have like a, some people are A B negative. Some people are B positive. Some of A negative. Like, what does it mean when your blood type has a certain charge to it? Like, does that affect the relationships you have with other people? I know some of my, my Japanese friends, like, they really have. the whole blood type's breaking down into personalities.

Like, you'll be, oh, you'll be positive, and this is like your chart right here. This is the kind of things that you can have right there. And it's, it's interesting to look at. I haven't done a whole lot of research on it, but it's, like you said, that there's got to be, if there's a negative charge or a positive charge in your body, that has to affect the way in which you navigate towards certain things. When we look at nature, like birds fly south for the winter or north based on a magnetic field. So if we're, if we can agree that we're part of nature, that we have to be affected by that.

It's so fascinating. And maybe that has to do with this spiritual awakening that's happening now. Like, maybe it's the magnetic North Pole moving. I don't know. It's so fast. I always think about it. Yeah. Yeah.

No, I don't know enough about it. I wish I had, you know, all this research. You out, you know, but you brought to mind all the, you know, eating for your blood type. Yeah. Like, again, I don't. I don't necessarily subscribe to that. I know people that do and they look fabulous and they feel fabulous. So maybe there's something that I'm missing out on.

But no, there's definitely something to it. You know, I think even just like an MRI, it's like we're taking pictures with energy, you know? And it's like how that moves through the different tissues. And they're sending, you know, an electrical impulse. And it's going to flow slower through. through some tissues and faster through some tissues. And so it's like, yeah, we can measure and see things because of energy. And yeah, so it's there.

I think some people just don't understand it and then throw it out. But I think it's those that are willing to like hang in there and, you know, technology is only going to, you know, catch up. and we're understanding all the quantum physics and all of that on a deeper level. So it's like, hey, humans are brilliant and figuring it out. But also, like, I think that can in some way be limiting when it's like we cannot touch it until we know more. You know, I think that can create some limitations. Yeah, it's interesting. I know that I talked to a lot of people that publish some papers or some things.

doctor sometimes and just a lot of really cool people. And it seems to me that for quite some time we went through this period where we were real hardcore on science and we threw out anything that you couldn't measure. But there's so much great information and some of the subjectivity that people threw out. It's like they threw the baby out with the bathwater. You know, I was speaking to some people that in the 50s were studying psychedelics and they used to, part of the questionnaires they would give to people, it's not only to the patient, but they give it to the family members and be like, is your husband less of an asshole now or more? You know?

And like, but yeah. And they kind of stop measuring the family because it's subjective. But like what, like we should be measuring the family. Is it like a measurement of healing the tears of joy in a spouse or like the tears of joy is in a mother or a father to see their kid doing better? Like that's a real measurement, right? Yes. Yeah. Oh, it is.

I think, yeah, all that plays into our healing. you know, how that family are. And yeah, that's an interesting point. I think when we can get back to accepting, you know, case studies instead of just like, you know, how do we measure, you know, this huge, you know, amount of people. It's like we're only going to find what works for the majority, but, you know, we're not all the same, right? And so it's like when we can get back to appreciating what happens with, you know, this person. and acknowledging that like, okay, we don't understand it,

but this was helpful for this person. Maybe it would be helpful for one other, 10 other people, you know, that read the study. But yeah, the impact of the family. I mean, I think going back to the kids, it's like we all impact one another. And like I think, okay, so this might be a little bit, yeah off topic here but one thing that I learned so much from my kids of special needs is

they taught me about the quieter more like spiritual side of things and we all help one another we're all in this like life together and you know maybe I'm helping them physically and I have that you know gift if you will and then they see the world differently and they are now teaching me how to see the world differently, how to quiet down, you know, and and then how are they impacting their parents? And so we all can support and help and heal one another and our energies are all working together to be more whole. And we are in this life together, I think two fine healing and wholeness and yeah.

That's a beautiful, no, that's a beautiful summation, I think, right there. That's such a great way to put a bow on it, I think. But before I let you go, first off, I really enjoyed our conversation, Dr. Jen. I appreciate the things you're doing. I hope one day soon to come and meet you and see everything you got going on. That would be amazing. Before I let you go, maybe you can tell people where they can find you. What do you have coming up and what you're excited about?

Yeah. All right. Let's see. I'm not great with like social media or anything, but I do have my website, Naluphysicaltherapy.com in ALU. And then I'm on Instagram as well, just starting that. And that's also Nalu underscore physical therapy. And what I have coming up, I'm excited about this year. I am hoping to put out more. more workshops and education for pregnant and postpartum women, birth prep, postpartum healing, and all that that comes with it, as well as bladder health. I feel like, you know, that's such an important topic for any age and any gender. But yeah, one thing, you know, older women, you know, I used to work in the skilled nursing facility. Like a lot of times if we don't have good bladder control, then that is sometimes the leading cause of needing to go into a nursing home. And so it really is important to get ahead of this. And when we start to have issues to find help, because there's usually always something we can do about it.

And it impacts the rest of our life. It impacts how we feel about ourselves. It impacts how we show up for our family. And so, yeah, so I'm hoping to just, you know, help more women through education on that with groups. But also I am here doing one-on-one therapy and love working with, yeah, love working with my clients. And people go to your website. They can book an appointment or book a call or like a can they do that on your website? Yep, they can book a call.

I actually need to set up where they can schedule, but I do everything like slow-mo. Like they can fill out the form online and then I personally reach out to them. For me, this is such like a personal experience, you know, and I try to to, yeah, just make it a very comfortable, enjoyable, empowering, you know, experience from the first point of contact. But yeah, that's the easiest thing. or call, email, text, you know, my website and information, or sorry, my phone and information is on the website. But yeah, that's how I have it set up right now. Yeah, there's a lot of things I can improve to make it go smoother and faster, and that's also something I hope to do,

you know, this next year. But right now I'm so old school. I'm just like, let's talk. I like that. Yeah, I think it's refreshing. And I'm, I'm, I, I think that the people that are attracted to you will be the people that show up and love that. I really think that things are mapped out that way. So, well, hang on briefly afterwards. I want to speak to you briefly afterwards, but to everybody who got to hang out with us today, whether you're watching it today, tomorrow, or a year from now, thank you so much for spending some time with us. Go down to the show now.

Let's talk out Dr. Jenna. She's an amazing individual with a very unique way of helping people see the world. She's really gone out of the way to develop a path that I think is different than most people. So go down to the show notes, look her up, go on her website, check her out. That's all we got for today, ladies and gentlemen. I hope you have a wonderful day. Aloha. Aloha.