TrueLife - Dr. Sebastian Marincolo - Tripping Toward Enlightenment: Psychedelics, Plant Medicine, and the Pursuit of a Fulfilling Life

Episode Date: February 19, 2024

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/Sebastián Marincoloaka Dr. Sebastian Schulz studied philosophy and linguistics at the University of Tübingen, Germany, and the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, USA. He was a student of William Lycan, Simon Blackburn, Gianfranco Soldati, and Manfred Frank, some of the most influential philosophers of consciousness today, and received his magna cum laude Ph.D. with a thesis about a critical analysis of neurophilosophical theories of consciousness.Marincolo has researched the cannabis high and its potential as an altered state of consciousness for more than 25 years, and has published four books and numerous articles on the cannabis high. He was mentored by his late friend Harvard Assoc. Prof. Emer. Lester Grinspoon, one of the most renowned cannabis experts in the world.Marincolo’s expert blog with essays on the cannabis high appeared online in five languages for Sensi Seeds Amsterdam, the largest cannabis seed bank in the world.The highly influential educational platform for cannabis professionals Greenflower Media/Los Angeles produced his online courses on cannabis and the enhancement of creativity and empathic understanding in 2016.As a photographer, he produced the limited-edition macro photo art series The Art of Cannabis,  which helped him to visualize his work for a broader public.His unusual research and work has received positive reviews and attention worldwide, despite the strong taboo surrounding the topic of cannabis use. Marincolo has been featured in international news outlets, and he has appeared as a guest on various international TV and radio shows and podcasts.He worked as a photographer, as a creative director, as well as a communications and marketing consultant for various communication agencies, NGO’s, and other many other clients.In 2017, he took on the position of Director of Communications and Marketing, Germany, for one of the largest cannabis producers in the world. During this time, he helped educate both health professionals and the wider public about medical cannabis.Marincolo currently works as a freelance writer and communications consultant.https://www.sebastianmarincolo.de/en/home/ One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark, fumbling, fear. Hears through ruins maze, lights my war cry, born from the blaze.

The poem is Angels with Rifles. The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Serafini. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Suppress it. Man, you're perfect. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the True Life podcast. I hope everybody's having a beautiful day. I hope that whether you're in Germany, whether you're in Hawaii, whether you're in the future,

or if somehow you're listening to this in the past, I hope you're enjoying your time. Got an incredible show for you back to the podcast is the only, the one and only, Sebastian Martin Kolo, author, philosopher, incredible, human, my friend, all over the board. He's an amazing, amazing individual. I'm going to throw a two of them right over here. He can probably tell you exactly what he wants you to know about him. I'll throw it to him so he can introduce himself a little bit. Sebastian, how's it going, my friend?

I'm great. Thank you. Hey, thanks for the introduction. You forgot about my friend. Oh, which one? Let's see. Yep. That's Rody.

Roady. Yeah. My son and my daughter love to ride on Rody. Yeah. Rody's awesome. I wish they had Rody when I was. He's on the show with me today. And he will answer all of your questions better than I do.

He's more in a meditative state and he's always balanced. I love it. I love that, man. Yeah. You know, we always get into these awesome conversation. We're talking a lot about cannabis and we're talking a lot about altered states and awareness. And I thought maybe we'd switch it up. Before the show, I started, man, you and I were talking about the potential pattern recognition power of AI and how that might, in fact, help us understand medicine better, man.

Would you take it from there? Yeah. Yeah, I just said that I'm hopeful that we are now entering an age where AI can help us to generate evidence on how complex natural substances like. cannabis or others, hit receptor targets, various receptor targets in our brain and body, and how, you know, and what that, what they cause. And I think that there's a lot of computational power behind that because so far we're generating a lot of evidence or what we do in sciences, we're trying to stabilize compounds or stabilize substances, pharmaceutical substance. So we look at plants, that's what we've always done. We take, we, we look at anecdotal evidence

or we look at what, you know, societies or shamans or others have said about this kind of tree or that kind of bark, you know, and take the bark. We know from ancient times that this may be good for reducing pain and then we're looking for compounds in that bark. And then we find something like aspirin or so, which we find one compound that might be responsible for the reduction of pain. But then in the end, what we kind of know is that there are more substances in that bark which also help. But it's science is more restricted as we see it right now when we generate evidence to one molecule. So I'm hopeful that we're now entering an age where we can probably better monitor

and generate evidence on how complex compounds hit receptor targets in our bodies. And so to generate evidence on plants, you know, on and on, you know, things that we know. And I think it's interesting if you look at the cannabis world. I always say that the fact that we have huge companies generating various kinds of varieties of cannabis is kind of evidence for the entourage effect that it's not only the THC in cannabis. It's not only the CBD in cannabis, but it's other minor cannabinoids and turpenes and flabinoids. that lead to a certain effect and that different varieties have a different effect. So we kind of, I mean, I'd say we know that, but we're still trying to find out, is it true that this turpene, that limine, or that better chiroeophylene, or that this

terpen leads to whatever is antidepressive or is antidepressant or that this is better for pain or this is better for sleep? because in the end we don't know if it's like linole alone or if it's linole in combination with a minor cannabinoid plus T.C. Or et cetera, et cetera. So we're working on that. But as we, you know, we started the conversation talking about how rewarding it is sometimes to experiment with like ginger tea or other substances for or manuka honey or so for, you know, to treat yourself or. to treat symptoms of flu or something. And sometimes you hit on something, you're like,

wow, that's amazing. But there's not much evidence on it out there in studies. And so there is a huge gap. We kind of know that if we have a synthetic vitamin C, it's probably not as good for us as an orange. You know, you all know that basically. You really know it. But we still have.

the methodology and the computational power and the pattern recognition systems to to actually generate better evidence. And I think there will be, and I'm hoping for a paradigm shift in the whole realm of studies where we're going to a different or to different ways of generating evidence for that. And that might be, you know, if that happens and I'm seeing it already happening with companies coming to, you know, serve for that matter, I see that we're entering a different age and plans to make a comeback. Yeah. It's interesting that you use the word paradigm shift because in a different age, it seems that what we do as one, like when we see things one way, regardless of what

discipline it's in, it seems like we see that in all things. And I'll give you an example. Like, if we look at the world today that has presidents and prime ministers and, you know, founders and CEOs, it seems like we're really focused on the one thing that steers the group, like the same way we try to isolate THC to figure out what works on this particular receptor. But what if you're right? What if it's like, It's not one thing. It's like these seven things working together to get this result. Like, you know, in some ways you can see countries changing that way or businesses changing that way. What if once we figure out, oh, it's all of us, can that be a paradigm shift?

Like maybe we're getting this new lens in this new age to see that it's not one. It's all. Is that, can that be a paradigm shift? Or can you see that same sort of thing? Or is that just crazy talk? No, no, no. I mean, you have effects like the butterfly effect or so where you see that a small, and especially in a world that is so hyper-connected as we are now with the internet and with all the media,

you see a little ripples of, you know, energetic waves, so to say, happening in a place in Egypt or in rain. in that part of the world and suddenly you have the in the whole region you have a revolution starting up a democratic revolution or something and so things are going fast and they're not they're not always leader driven they're sometimes driven from little communities or people connecting and and so i think this is a fascinating world to live in because we are because of that hyper connection and because of the speed of the traveling signals right things can can change rapidly and it's almost unpredictable. I mean, it's anything can happen.

So, but in a way, that's kind of frightening because there are a lot of dangers out there now and with the climate change and nuclear weapons and the war is happening, et cetera, et cetera. But then also we have a lot of tools and we have a lot of intelligence out there and capabilities of people of amazing people.

And we have the fact that even, you know, somebody who comes up, even somebody who's not a big CEO, not a billionaire, not a president, not a Nobel Prize winner, can, like, start a revolution in Africa because he uses the internet to build like a little windmill for his village to generate electricity. And then, you know, thousands of communities do it. and they changed, you know, a lot. So I think that gives me hope. And I think it's a very empowering perspective on what's happening in the world

because you know that you can make a difference, especially if you're connected to people, especially if you start interacting with others. And we're not isolated. Yeah. It blows my mind to think about how connected we are and how ripe for good ideas are out there. It seems like maybe not everyone, but it seems to me like the, the, it's opening up for individuals to have decisions that can make big changes in the world. You know, like you said, if somebody comes up with this idea, they put on a house now they have a windmill.

Like that could theoretically disrupt the general dynamics on some level. Maybe not general dynamics, but like you understand what I'm saying. Like an individual can come up and not get snuffed or pushed out of the way. And they have the real resources in front of them to begin building their idea unlike never before. Yeah, absolutely. And so I've looked into chaos theory a long time ago. And, you know, that's... Yeah.

By the name of it, we think that it's a theory. Well, it's a theory about dynamics that we see as chaotic and not predictable. But to a certain extent, there is a very complicated mathematical way to describe those systems and to look into things like the butterfly effect and other effects. Or to look into what's called strange tractors and where the systems... tend to, you know, move to. And I think we live in a world where we have to expect a lot of surprises and we should always think of ourselves as being able to have a big effect on them. Yeah. And which is, you know, for some, it's paradoxical because also you see, very often we feel so overweigh,

by everything that's hitting our senses because it comes through, you know, everywhere with the media and with, and we feel disconnected because we're not seeing the world anymore or we're not meeting people anymore with corona, et cetera. So we're always staring at screens and we're talking to phones, et cetera, but we are hyper-connected and we can make a difference. So, yeah, it's fascinating. It's a fascinating time, rapidly changing. And I think we, in Germany, I mean, we, same in the States, people went on the street now, like by the millions, I think, in the last weeks.

Because they found out that the right-wing party, AFD, collaborated with neo-Nazis, basically, and other, like, really right-wing forces, to think about how to push out people here, how to deport people by the millions from Germany in secret meetings. So now finally, you know, they're waking up and people are like, enough is enough because that party, the AFD is under observation by the government. In some parts, it's already classified as radical and as right wing radical. And so now people are standing up and say this, we can't take this anymore. This party already has like 20% of the population on their side. So now you can see how because of those connections, because of social media,

also people are becoming more aware of it and they're standing up for their rights. So that's a good thing. There are a lot of other things that are not good, but we should be hopeful. And we should also always, if you feel like you have no power or you feel like overwhelmed, you know, get active. I mean, it's in your hands. You know, an individual can make a huge difference now.

Yeah, it's true. As a philosopher, do you look, back on the past and maybe you have some particular philosophers that that you really admired or you still admire today, do you see the potential for chaos or war on the front as being elevated these days? Or is it, I mean, is that on your mind at all being over there and seeing the far right come out like that or just seeing the way the world is right now as a philosopher? Do you think that we're closer to war than we've ever been before? Or do you think that's just how every generation is.

I think we're getting very close. And of course, if you think about, from a German perspective, you think back to the Second World War and to the First World War. Now the situation is, of course, much worse because we have all over the world where weapons of mass destruction. Yeah. If you're thinking about what happens, if somebody drops a nuclear bomb somewhere, how will the population react? How will the world react? Will it radicalize everything?

Are we prepared for that? That's, of course, a frightening vision. But if you think about like the first or the second World War and how, especially, in Germany, the younger generation, they were running like they were frantic, they were like happy to run over France and to kill people because they thought that's the right thing. They had basically only one source of information. So propaganda had a strong hold on them. And so, but now we're in a situation where we have multiple sources and we are at a completely different point of education. people have been brought up here and in most other countries they have not been brought up in

such an authoritarian way and you know so the educational system is different so we have different resources so it's really it's it's sad to see and and i think that's something that nobody predicted 20 years ago that um in countries like China or Russia, they're closing. Because we thought, yeah, we have that connectivity now. People can look all over the world and see what's happening and they get their information, but they're closing their systems to their propaganda. So that's a problem, of course, and also in the Western countries.

I mean, you see the media landscape being dominated by only some big conglomerate. of companies or huge leaders of bought the media and then kind of dominate the opinion, make the opinion pieces, etc. So that's a problem, but still we are at a different point all over the world. So we have the resources and that gives me the hope that we can get out of the situation. that's one of the points but but we got to be we have to be aware that it's

that we're close to to we're having big problems yeah we need to act what what role do you think and it seems to me that when you look at and

I don't know for sure but it seems to me a precursor to war is usually national finance versus international finance. That seems like a problem, right? And that seems like what's happening right now. It's like people are jockeying for control

of the centralized power of money. What do you think about that? Yeah. I mean, of course you see that in the Second World War, especially with the whole crash in the N20s and then the mass massive like lots of people having no jobs etc and then the radicalization of the whole society and here now you see of course that the middle class is going down like in the states i mean

we're the accumulation of capital and in just one percent of the population that is that is something we should think about norbing and the problem i think is that that a lot of people get distracted and they don't understand those dynamics. Yeah. And that politics, no matter what politician from the so-called left or so-called right, they're all serving the system because they're kind of in a way get bribed. And then once they're in a place of power, they make sure that rich people get away with paying no taxes, et cetera, because otherwise they couldn't even get up in the system no no matter where they come from yeah

and then you know and then it's the foreigners come and then you know you then people tell you it's the foreigners coming it's because we're taking refugees or it's because of the mexicans coming over the border and i always tell people of course there are problems with people coming from different countries but economic i don't think that economically that's the big problem A, because a lot of these people bring abilities and they help the country also. I've been in a lot of projects helping refugees also and or as a photographer. And I always compare the situation to if you break it down in Germany, I'm not sure if we talked about that before, if we break it down in Germany and say,

okay, we have like, I think, 82 million people here. So let's break it down to a village of small village of 82 people. And now, if we talk about one million refugees, that's one person in that village. So we just shrink it proportionally. So now let's say we have a village of 82 people. Some of them are super rich, like three. Some of them are rich. Some of them are a really good middle class in Germany.

Some of them are poor. We have poor people also. And I couldn't give you exactly now the statistics on, you know, how many people you have in but you get the idea. Now you have another village over there and that's burning down for some reasons, the war, whatever, natural catastrophe. And then one person, which would be one million refugees in the bigger picture, one person comes over to that village. And then there are some people in that village, some media, some people who tell you, all our problems, all our fucking problems are because of that guy who also has green skin and not blue skin like we do.

Right. Right. And so we have to feed that guy now. All our problems come from that guy. Really? Really? So, so yeah. Your question, of course, is right.

We have to think about another paradigm shift. and how, because I think it did sink in. And especially in the States, I remember, it did sinking that we feel that it's natural, that the system is as it should be, that there are billionaires and they shouldn't pay tax and it's all okay. And because if we make them pay tax and they go to a different country and then we don't have, you know, the factory is here anymore and we cannot, you know, survive. No, we need international rules for the system to be just and for a better distribution of wealth. So we need completely different rules in place.

I always remember when I studied in North Carolina, I walked down the street and I saw some people who lived on the street and a guy who was literally sleeping on cardboard, besides the road, got up, there was a white Mercedes limousine, I think, or white, bigger, whatever, Mercedes driving by. And he got up, and he was like, when I'm rich, I'm going to drive that car. Nice.

So it's not like, hey, maybe we should think about a better distribution. Why do some people have so much money and don't have to pay taxes? But it's like, I'm going to be in that place. I'm going to be the one and other can be poor. So there's something deeply wrong and we need to change our mindset about that. Yeah, I'm hopeful that it happens. it does seem like, you know, when you pan back and you try to look at it and try to fix it, like no one person can fix a problem this big, but you can fix yourself.

Like you can change your mindset. And maybe that's the answer. Like saying to yourself, like, look, I've got some things I need to work on. And the better I can work on my things, the better society is going to be. But it's so much easier to be like, we've got to go get these people. We've got to get those people. Instead of looking at you on the inside and understanding that you, you relate to the world in a way that is problematic, it's much easier to point the finger and be

like it's the green guy or it's the rich guy or it's the poor guy, you know, or it's the gay guy or the straight guy, you know, and it seems like that division. And now we're back to propaganda on some level because it does seem like people in positions of authority like to fan that flame a lot. Like, hey, don't look here. Look over there. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Yeah, that's a problem. And it's interesting, we just had a conversation here about somebody who's having real problems like a friend of mine with alcohol and not being able to change the pattern of alcohol abuse. and so we talked a lot about that and I looked into I read a story of a journalist who also talks and she talked about how you know that she went down that road and drank more and more and how she went to party and lost control etc etc and it's interesting to see that it's especially with alcohol you see how hard it is for many of those, for many people and opiates, of course, also to get up those substances.

But what I find interesting is that if you talk to some people, they come to a point where they just say, enough is enough. No more of that. Boom. They get away from it. And they change their lives. And if you ask them, what was it? you know, was it a friend? Was it a therapy? Was it in that one?

Yeah, the journalist that I just talked about, she said she can't really tell. She can't really tell what was the factor, but she just said that she just had the feeling that that was just one time or not one time too much. And now she's over it. And this is something that I feel like, like with nutrition, when you, when you go down the wrong road and you you eat more to satisfy whatever needs you have, but you can't satisfy them, you want to have pleasure out of eating and more eating. And then you feel miserable in your body and to compensate for that.

You eat more because that gives you pleasure, et cetera, et cetera, and you go down that vicious cycle. then I think at some point you might feel so miserable and you might have a vision or an idea of something else that you just flip at some point. It doesn't necessarily happen, but it can happen. And I'm hoping that in our society you've come to that point because it's going worse and worse. I mean, in Germany, for instance, we see the rent going for apartments. I mean, the prices are the rent. People cannot afford apartments anymore here.

It's insane how the prices went up in the last years. So, and at some point, you're like, okay, I'm working now most of my time to just fucking, sorry, to just pay my rent. And so the whole system comes to. point where I mean they're trying to put the brakes on it but it's it's not really working and the whole dynamics of the capital working its way upward is is basically still in place and I think it's you know it's interesting to see how as a society we will react to that because in the next years there will have to be a big reaction so that's a systemic reaction and not one of oh these people So it must be them or it must be them or I must have a little bit more of that that, you know, won't do it.

Right. That illusion would be shattered because it's not them. And it'll be way to, you cannot paint those people in that direction anymore. And I think that on some level, it's interesting that we talk about the drugs that people have turned to in the past that allowed them to sleep in the hollows of the doorway of despair right there. I think that on some level, if we can figure out, like your book Elevated talks about, to understand how to use cannabis as a tool for mind enhancement or psychedelics, it seems that these particular methodologies, you know, teachers or exogenous neurotransmitters, whatever you want to call them, it seems to me like they're calling to people in a way

that is helping people find their way out of crisis. It's almost like a light at the end of the tunnel for people. And I don't, I wasn't around back at the last war or even in Vietnam, but it seems maybe in Vietnam. Like, you know, you started to see some of these particular, be it psychedelics or marijuana or cannabis. Like it started changing the way people saw stuff, you know, and maybe, maybe that's what we're on the cusp of again. If history moves in a helical pattern, maybe we're on that cusp again, but now we have these things in front of us. What do you think about that? Yeah.

Well, I immediately think of two times in history where you could see a cultural revolution happening, which is, and I wrote about it in my book, what Hashes did to Walter Benjamin. Where is it? Yeah. See, you, show it. Have you got it? So it's also a collection of essays. Nice.

And I'm showing an image of Walter Benjamin as he sits on the balcony and smokes a giant, which he didn't do. He probably just ingested it. But in this book, I not only explore how cannabis can change individual thinking and cognition and states like pattern recognition and abilities like focusing or so personal transformation or empathic understanding but also I have a few essays in there that are on how how the use of cannabis for enhancements for those enhancements might have changed society and one is about the early evolution of jazz where I believe and I argue that we all know

of that Billy Holliday and Louis Armstrong was very very illiterate about it I mean he wrote really about his use of cannabis he said his autobiography could have been called gauge which was the code word for marijuana because he was a daily smoker and I I highly recommend reading Milton Mesmesmese book really the blues um which is uh he was uh i think at some point his manager and he a colleague who played also a great saxophone and other instruments and um who wrote about the whole jazz scene and about cannabis use um it's an amazing book um and i believe that if you look at the the transition from blues music to jazz jazz musicians really moving from the south to places in in new york or the other big cities really had to work under tough conditions and i read stories

about you know how they how how they left their apartment and then to leave their wives alone because they had to hustle and they had to you know prostitute themselves themselves to help them to survive, etc. So that was a tough time. And then comes cannabis and they are, the music turns from blues into swing music and gives them energy and helps them to overcome their traumas, helps them. And that's in really the blues, Mesru, how they're connecting on stage empathically,

how also they're connecting to the crowd. how white and how the black jazz musicians and white people in New Orleans connect in clubs, even during a time of the Jim Crow laws, which was the problem then because, you know, people like Harry Anslinger said, we need to, you know, we need to crack down on that. That can't happen. And how cannabis helped them, how cannabis got people like, Louis Armstrong in the flow and helped them to

scat and to improvise on stage and go fast like you see it in the whole hip-hop community still. And that led to a huge change in society. Suddenly there is a vibrant music which is still

in terms of think of cultural heritage, which is still one of the most important things I think coming out of the states also the whole evolution of jazz and the early evolution of jazz going to you know with with the swing and the vibes and the dancing it's like an explosion of joy creativity empathy and and brilliance and that's amazing to see that we we tend to forget that because people don't know the details so much

about that but there are so many jazz musicians who smoke cannabis and we have people people like Milton Mez Mezro, who was famous for his mesroles, which were like really high standard cannabis joints. He was also a dealer in Harlem. And so that was, for instance, that's a very interesting story to look at. And then of course, it's an interesting story to look at how cannabis and LSD and other substances led to what happened in the 60s. I mean, that's a big discussion still. but I think it's kind of obvious that some of those things happened there. And I wrote an up, I'm not sure if we talked about that.

Did we talk about the LSD conference with Albert Hoffman that I went to? Yeah, where the guys got up and people were dancing. Everyone kind of looked down like they were freaks. That's where I felt all that, you know, where everybody's sitting there and then suddenly there is this music, meditative, and it's kind of opening people up And suddenly the strong, like the invisible inhibitions of people and the values they have, suddenly everything is kind of shaking up and breaking up and people start moving and doing different things. And suddenly the whole crowd is different.

This is something that gives me hope. This can happen. It doesn't necessarily have to happen. But it's something that can happen in a society that's so well connected. Yeah. I think there's a lot of evidence for it. You know, I was thinking today about this whole psychedelic renaissance that we're in. And I looked back and started thinking about some of the bands and, you know, the electric coolid acid tests and all of these people that started finding their way into the first wave that came up in the 60s.

I thought to myself, I wonder what was the average age of the boomer when that popped off? Because we, you know, we have this other class coming up, like the zoomers that are another big class. And isn't it interesting that psychedelics are finding their way in? I wonder if there's a correlation between the average age of the boomers when the first psychedelic movement exploded and where the next generation, this next big generation is right now. Because it seems like we're, you know, every hundred years, you got 19, 20, 2020, 2020. You know, you have like these big, even that book The Fourth Turning talks about these generational patterns that happen. It's interesting to think about.

What would your take on like that, that generational rhyming, especially with psychedelics involved? Yeah, I'm sure that that is a big factor in how the dynamics plays out. And of course, but there are, of course, there are many other factors involved on where the society is and, you know, what because if you look for instance at the cannabis prohibition marijuana prohibition yeah we see the cannabis prohibition um especially in the states um i i remember an interesting historical take on it by by historian yeah i don't sure if i remember the name now but he he said that Anslinger basically had a very small agency. He had only like 300 agents or so. And in the 30s and he looked over, he drove down a highway and he looked over fields and

fields of cannabis, you know, that were still grown that. And he was like, how, how am I going to control that? And so basically, he came up with a conclusion that he has to start a big campaign and disinformation campaign, you know, and he spread lies and he spread disinformation through the media, through the mass media, through newspapers, etc. And that cannabis can will turn you into a killer, et cetera, et cetera. And all of these myths about cannabis are still active and they still have their effects today. So I think if you look at what you were talking about,

those generational observations and the age observations, I'm pretty sure you're totally right about that. That's a big factor and we see things coming back and we see that being a factor in the dynamics. But then for instance, it's also a factor in the dynamics of how societies have been talked about things and how disinformation has been spread and how these um how these little bits and pieces of disinformation are still active and you know keeping people from doing things and and uh so um so i think it's it's a very complex equation to look at um when you want to really look into the dynamics of all that

but we should never forget two things. First of all is what I learned through Ronald K. Siegel is A, all kinds of animals are using psychoactive substances. Ants do it, elephants do it, birds do it, goats do it, and they do it for certain purposes. So in evolution, we're not special as humans. So we have a connection. We are using psychedelics and other substances for certain reasons. And that's really one important thing. And the other one is that let me think.

I'm not sure if I lost the thread here. Yeah, take your time. Yeah, so connected with that, let's put it this way. Psychoactive substances bring various enhancements, even those, even alcohol. I just talked about those. For instance, alcohol, for some people, alcohol helps them, if they drink alcohol, it helps them to focus, to get in the flow, to lose their inhibitions. Yeah.

And so these are all things that help that are kind of universal. I mean, it's not individually the same. But some people might be, might say, I remember my philosophy professor said that he works best when he has had half a bottle of scotch. World famous professor. And he said he's really focused. He's in the flow. he can think he can write he's he's at his best then and um which is not my recommendation for alcohol but it just to say if you want to understand why people use it or even up

you have or even die on it they might do it because it helps them uh think big bank theory what's that guy's name who's um raj who's using it for um for his anxiety social anxiety etc. And so this is also a factor that's always there that people are looking like the evolutionary perspective and on the individual perspective. If you look at how people are using those substances, they help them for various things. And you then have to look at the society and what the society imposes on people. We now have a lot of stress. I mean, people are stressed by the informational environment, by the demands of modern life, by the velocity of everything happening, the changes, by not being able to support a family, by losing a job, et cetera, et cetera. So one of the things that they're looking for is something to help them deal with the stress, to cope.

So then the society turns to, or a lot of people turn to cannabis because cannabis can help amazingly with stress. And then others come and tell them, you have a problem with cannabis. Well, maybe not. Maybe they have a problem with the stress. Yeah. And maybe, yes, maybe the cannabis then can be, maybe they get into an escapist use, which can also be a problem. and reinforce the problems they already have, but the original problem is not cannabis. It's not like very often that's a point about addiction or substance abuse behavior

or disorder is like the standard view, so to say, many people think about it as there's a normal person with no problems and then there's a substance like a very addictive, bad, evil substance coming from the devil, and then the person is going down. Right. And of course we know that's that bullshit. Yeah. So that these are, to sum that up, I mean, we have to think about the evolutionary perspective. All animals have always used various psychoactive substances for various reasons.

That is part of our DNA, so to say. And these substances can help us with various cognitive abilities. But of course, we need to understand that we need to intelligently work with that because even if alcohol, for instance, helps me to focus as a writer, for instance, I have to be aware that it destroys my health to a certain extent. And then I have to make a choice, you know. You know, that's an advantage with cannabis. It's not toxic in that sense. And so we need to have intelligent regulations, and we need to have intelligent individual approaches to it, which is why I wrote The Art of the High, which is to help people to use a high for those mental enhancements

and to get away from ab-use and to really control the risks better. Yeah. There are risks. Yeah, without a doubt, it's interesting to think when you say that there's risks and we talk about these different substances or we talk about this substance coming from the devil, you know, the word relationships comes to mind. And I think about, I used to smoke a lot and then I used to dip sometimes. And, you know, it's really tough to quit those things because they're pretty addictive. But what I did is I just changed my relationship to it. I started growing like this, hopy tobacco.

and I would eat I would chew some of the leaves and in doing so I fundamentally changed my relationship with tobacco you know it used to be my relationship with tobacco was sort of this this synthesized semi semi organic substance because it had so much stuff in it but when I started just growing the plant and then chewing the leaves like on some level it helped me and and with you know having leverage on myself like look I got a family I don't want to smell like smoke. You have the leverage on yourself, but you also change your relationship with the substance.

And in doing so, you change the way you act together when you're with that substance or how you consume that substance. But it's changing your relationships with everything. It's an interesting process. Yeah. So what would you say, what does that tobacco use do for you? It's interesting because I think my relationship, relationship with it changed. In the beginning, it was like a social function. Like I would have a

cigarette when I would drink some beers and it felt pretty good and it was more of a stimulant. But then the further down the road I got, it was more of like, you know, like a, like a, more of like a calming, you know, like a sedative, you know, I don't know if you can say a, it's more of like a satisfying sedative. Not that I was going to fall asleep, but it was more like a focusing, mellowing out than it was more of like a, ooh, I'm partying and stuff like that. So, you know, maybe there's something that happens along the lines inside your body that changes as well. What about you? What do you think? Well, I'm asking because I think I'd like to make a general point about it. I think it's important to become aware, to reflectively think,

about your use of substances but not only your use of substances but also of media because we're addictions run all over yes we usually think of addictions in terms of substances but of course we're addicted to whatever shopping to internet to course social media etc and think about people who you know reports of people who visit friends and then they're like oh i have to go to the toilet but they don't really have to go to the toilet but they need to check their Facebook or something obsessively. So and and I think it's really important to be aware of it, what you are using whatever, alcohol or cannabis or LSD or television or whatever for.

And then to look into the, um, risk-benefit analysis or the whole does that how much does it help me and what does it take away from me so is it really good for me to watch i i'm working until 11 in the evening or p.m. and then i need to come down and i'm watching news and television or something and i go to bed with all the negativity of negativity of whatever but i'm i'm you know i need to stop my, like the whole internal, you know, the whole thinking and obsessing about problems. So I'm, I think in Castaneda's word, I'm stopping the world. I'm trying to stop the world by watching the most negative things about the world.

And so, so we need, once we become aware of those things, it really helps. I mean, it might help to watch television to stop me from thinking obsessively about my problems because it may not be a problem that there's a flood in India or something. But then I should think about, is that really how you want to stop? Or maybe we want to do a meditation. Maybe that's a better way to come down.

And I think it's the same with substances. And if you think about, if you come to the conclusion, well, this kind of tobacco use is, I'm doing it for whatever, relaxation, for focus, for the taste experience, you know, then you can also make a better choice about whether you want to keep that. You're like, well, the taste experience is so important to me that I, you know, I can deal with everything else, with a negative, whatever, impact of nicotine, et cetera, et cetera, I make a conscious choice about it. Or you say, or maybe you come to the conclusion, well, if it's, for instance,

if it's just a taste experience and the sedation that I want out of it or the little moment, well, there are other ways maybe. You know, maybe I can replace that with something that's healthier to me. Yeah. And I think this is, this is the kind of mindfulness that we should have, and that we should arrive at. The first step is an introspective process, is like to be able,

and I feel that a lot of people, and this is also what I've tried to do with the art of the highest, give them a vocabulary to talk about their mental states. What is it? And to get an overview of the possible enhancements, but also risks. Just one example, if you smoke or if you inhale or consume cannabis, you have an enhancement of episodic memory retrieval.

So sometimes you feel like it's what's happening with LSD as well. Sometimes you or with other substances that you feel like you relive moments that you had like 20 years ago as a child. and like you can see everything, you can feel everything that happened. And that's an incredible value to your life. Now, again, once you understand that and once you are able to conceptualize that, you can put it on your list and say, see, this is something that cannabis gives me and whatever substance gives me.

And then on the other side of the list, you have, well, but that substance may lead to this and that, or it may lead to some damages or some risk, or I do it too often, or I get a problem in my relationship with it, etc. And then you can come to a better evaluation of your use and whether you should maybe replace it. And again, I think I said that before, but I think what is central to me, my thinking is also the notion of coping because we are using a lot of psychoactive substances as coping strategies. We want to cope with stress. For instance, we want to cope with post-traumatic stress. We want to cope with our depression. We want to cope with our anxiety. And I remember from a conference on mobbing and suicide, I think it was that somebody said like a teenager who comes to a therapist and says, look, here, I'm, I'm using a knife

to hurt myself when I'm in certain states of despair. As a therapist, you're doing the exact wrong thing. If you say, hey, you freak, you know, stop that. What you should basically say, like, what? What are you doing? I don't want to see that. So what you should do is to tell that kid or that had a lesson. Like, hey, congratulations. Congratulations. You have found a way to survive because, probably because of mobbing or post-traumatic stress,

you are falling into states or mental, you're falling into moods where you're, can't feel your body where you feel desperate and you probably also feel suicidal and you want to jump from the balcony. You haven't done that because you have found a coping strategy, a coping strategy which is cutting your skin, which makes you feel alive. We know that if you cut your skin or if you hurt yourself, endorphins are released. So you come to your senses. Yeah.

be a little bit happy or something in a weird sense that we wouldn't, you know, but, but it's, it's happening and maybe it takes you through the suicidal stage and help you to survive. So congratulations. Yeah, really. Yeah. But maybe we need to think about slowly replacing that coping mechanism with something that helps you to not hurt yourself, but to still cope with whatever problem. you have. And I think when we talk about cannabis, for instance, maybe cannabis is perfect for you. Maybe cannabis is not only a coping mechanism, but also something, that's how I feel about myself. Yeah. Yeah. I feel I don't, you know, I don't have a problematic relationship with it. I've never felt like I'm doing too much.

I never felt I have a problem in my relationship because of it. I never felt like I'm using tobacco and hurt my lungs. And I get those enhancements and I know how to use it. So I don't feel like I need to replace that. You know, it just gives me something and the risks are really low. And, you know, the only problem is the society as it looks on it. But so sometimes you might find that what you're doing is just fine. Maybe, but also maybe.

if you feel like you've been using cannabis to cope with your, with the death of a veneer one. Yeah. And you've been smoking for a whole year day in and day out a lot. And that also kind of made you sleepy and you're not really functioning at work for some reason or et cetera, et cetera. It helped still a therapist might say or a friend might say to you, congratulations. you know, you found a way to cope with your sadness. But maybe you should think about a different way now to enter into a,

either enter into a more healthy relationship with cannabis, but then we first need to satisfy whatever cannabis helped you to do, which is probably maybe, for instance, in that case, maybe you get a therapy and you think you have somebody to talk to you, get through with your trauma with your sadness sorry maybe cannabis maybe cannabis will stay part of it maybe maybe cannabis is the right thing for you to go through it maybe that that is it maybe you find something better maybe you find meditation yeah meditation practice to help you with that and then once you've done that maybe you get back to cannabis and you say hey no i'm open for for

different relationship to cannabis and now I don't need it anymore to cope with my sadness but now I'm using it to get high, have a great evening with my friends, enjoy a meal, have a great taste experience, complex taste experience in, you know, be creative in the kitchen, listen to music, hear new nuances in the music, generate ideas for my novel that I'm writing, and I'm doing that once a week and I'm fine. So I think I believe that a lot of people are already using cannabis, alcohol, MDMA for many more reasons. They could probably tell and that society would admit them, you know, they're using it for empathic understanding, for connecting with other people, for connecting with their bodies, for de-stressing, for, for, addressing their fears, for, you know, disinhibition, for, et cetera, et cetera.

There's such a long list. But we need to become as a society and as individuals more aware of what does this kind of substance give to me. And am I fine with that? Is that okay? Is that a healthy relationship? And should I stay with it as it is? or maybe I can, whatever, maybe I need something different for my stress, for my pain,

for my whatever. And then I enter into a different relationship with the planet. So that's very also non-judgmental because a lot of people, I think, have come up with great coping strategies. Of course, society mostly tells them, you're a freak. You're a friend. And you have the problems because you don't have problems because, you don't have problems because your alcoholic dad told you you're an asshole and he, you know, he put you in the cellar

for days, etc. That's not your problem. Your problem is that you're taking cannabis, my friend. So, so that's my perspective on how people use psychoactive substances and how they self-medicate and how they not only self-medicate, but how they use it also for inspiration and other things, and to lead a better life. I mean, to connect with other people, to be in a group of friends,

to be better people, to be more outgoing, to be in the flow, et cetera. But then I always tell them, think about yourself, develop the tools to ref, to reflect on yourselves, your friends will help you take their feedback. They're not the only ones, but it's always good to have people around you to tell you, hey, I know you're really funny

when you're drinking, but I have a feeling it's getting out of hand. And so take that advice, if necessary, take the advice of selected therapists, problem is with therapists that some of them have their prejudices and, you know, they will put more shame on you that you need. But there are good people out there and then, you know, it's our responsibility as individuals and as a society to come to a healthier relationship with psychoactive substances because they are amazing tools and they can be used for amazing goals. Yeah. It's well said. You know, there's also a an interesting thing that happens when you begin seeing the world in a different way.

Like maybe you start a relationship with cannabis or psychedelics and you start seeing or you become more aware of what's happening. I don't want to do this anymore. Maybe instead of quitting cannabis, you quit your job. Right. That can make people, yeah, that can make people around you a little nervous and then they want to recondition you. Hey, what do you do? Look what you just did. Is this fair for your family?

Look what you just did. You knucklehead. This is all wrong. What they're really saying is like, you're making me pretty nervous over here thinking I'm doing the wrong thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And that can be hard if you're the individual who, like, had this glimpse of clarity.

Like, oh, my God, this is, I can't do this anymore. You know, and then all of a sudden you stop using cannabis. You're like, okay, maybe I should do. Maybe I just was using too much cannabis. But really what you saw was a better future for yourself. And society, sometimes. It doesn't. Psychedelics and cannabis are a substance that make people around you flip out when you take it. You know, I just had an interesting conversation yesterday. I went to a family reunion, 90th birthday of my aunt.

Oh, congratulations. And I talked to somebody in my family is a psychiatrist. I met her for the first time. And she told me, oh, yeah, I heard about your book. I'm kind of like, I don't know, because in Germany, especially the psychiatrists, I know that from working in the medical realm, the psychiatrist associations are very critical about cannabis and addiction, cannabis and psychosis, et cetera. They are like, they're friends. They're really.

They drink the collate. Very, they're rejecting the whole issue. They're like, no, you can't even appear on. hour, whatever. You know, we tried to get in a discussion. They were like, we don't know. We don't even want to hear about it. You know, it's like, okay.

All right. So it's like, uh, yeah, that's exactly what is. That doesn't seem like very adult. They should disqualify them. I don't know. I don't want to. I heard it's dangerous. I don't want to know about it.

Yeah. And then she asked me about, you know, what I'm doing. We met for the first time. She's very nice. So it's not like, but then we ended up, the dynamics ended up a little bit like what you expect from a psychiatrist. She's asking and she's not giving you the, she's not telling you, hey, you're a neurotic, whatever bastard.

That's not a psychiatrist. But she's asking questions that go in a certain direction. Right. telling you. Yes. Sorry. So she was directing me to, and I could see that my point of view kind of challenges, of course, her fear, world view about cannabis, et cetera.

And then she got a little defensive and steering into the direction of, don't you think you have an unhealthy, well, you're still, okay, You had so much problems working as an author and your books was tough to write and you didn't get funding and then you and then you worked in the medical industry and yeah, you helped those people, but then you had problems with that company and then you did this and you had problems with that and society does look down and you're still on the subject. Don't you think you have an unhealthy, obsessive relationship with a substance with cannabis? What's wrong with here? don't you see that something is wrong with you and I was like well you know the thing is well or actually I didn't come to because we were always interrupted by kids so it didn't it kind of ended well I was making a good fun of her like and I said yeah I'm still trying a

little bit and if I if this doesn't work out then I'm coming back to you and you're going to heal me from my obsession with cannabis and then I'm going to be fine and we laughed. So it was a cool conversation. But I think that's an interesting encounter because I think that so many of us who are working in the psychedelic space have those encounters. And from my point of view, I try to put my real response in a nutshell now, is that I started to work on the subject because I felt like cannabis gives me something, but also my research focus was always on consciousness. Then I found reading all the literature that I found on it,

that cannabis can lead temporarily to all those enhancements of empathic understanding, introspection, pattern recognition, attention patterns, episodic memory retrieval, fast associative thinking, creativity, the sexual experience, et cetera, et cetera, insights, a really interesting phenomenon. This was the focus of my first book, high insights on marijuana. And then later I got more into the endocannabinoid system, finding that this is in, you know, that we have all those modulations probably because. cannabis affects one of the most, if not the most important system for maintaining health in the

body and mind, which is the endocannabinoid system. And it led me to my research coming to the hypothesis, which I have been elevated, that probably we underestimate how important the end cannabinoid system is in the architecture of all those abilities, pattern recognition, memory, episodic memory retrieval, empathic understanding, and that the endocannabinoid system might play a huge role in that. So as a scientist, working in the field of basic science, which I had to finance through other jobs, because of course nobody gave me money for that. I found it hugely rewarding because that took me into the real nature of consciousness more than anything else that I've done in.

And I come from, I had the privilege to work at really or to learn from the best in that field. And I'd say this was a really rewarding, not only personal rewarding because I had those enhancements myself and I have some of my insights coming from cannabis use in those books, but also because as a scientist, I'd say this took me to a route of understanding the human consciousness, which was amazing, and I hope that I can transfer some of that in my books. But also, as a philosopher, you usually don't expect to have a big effect on the world. usually you'd expect that maybe 200 years after you die and put your book that says maybe I should shoot that person

that moral philosophers. I can't just shoot him because he has green skin. Okay. Now. And then I, but then you know, you write a blog, an expert blog, and people come back to you because it was translated five languages and somebody from New York writes you that he had a traumatic experience.

cannabis help them and how your work has, you know, affected him and how he's using it. And you see that actually have an effect on people. And then I worked in the medical industry and helped to educate hundreds of doctors. And I brought in doctors from Canada to Germany to really show doctors here who were not believing in the whole studies and et cetera, but they heard it then from doctors who had, had thousands of medical patients in the cannabis realm, and told them how it works. And they heard it from calling to colleague.

And then suddenly you see, okay, I started in 2017, when we had 1,000 patients in Germany, now we have, I don't know, 100, 150,000 patients. I kind of lost track. It's getting up. And all those people have a fundamental effect on their lives. I mean, those medical patients, most of them, for them, cannabis use, change their lives if it's the effect on their pain or whatever. So it's usually rewarding to work in that field, but you always have to confront people who tell you,

you're still on that. Are you not in an unhealthy relationship? why are you doing that you could build a house with you know selling tires or yeah yeah so um yeah so um yeah so i thought that was an interesting conversation yesterday yeah it reminds me of the inner dialogue sometimes of the old ideas that come up to you that you know no longer work and so how do you deal with that like okay you have this stuff thought that comes up, yes, and yes, but that doesn't work for these 10 reasons, you know, and it just seems like so outside is so inside. Sometimes you will be, you will bump up against

the people that are like, listen, don't you see where you're like, don't you see this? Yeah, of course I see that. And I'm still doing it. Like, that's how much I believe in it. Like, and people are like, you're out of your mind. What's wrong with you? You know, it's, But when I look back at some of the people that I admire the most, whether it's, you know, you wrote about Armstrong, Benjamin and all the, and there's so many great things in the books that you wrote about people who Carl Sagan, you know, Grinspoon, all these people that like, that believed in something in this relationship, regardless of what everyone around them said. And some people have the whole world, the way to the world on them. And they still move forward. And it still helped them. And sometimes it helped them through the most difficult times.

If you find something in your life that is a real ally like that, it's hard to explain it to people who have never had that relationship. I think that's what a lot of people aren't getting, whether it's the psychiatrist or if you look at psychedelics today, there's a lot of people who are trying to help people with psychedelics. They've never taken a psychedelic. So they can read the literature, but they don't thoroughly understand the experience. Yeah, true that.

And I believe it's important. I talked about the evolutionary perspective before that all animals are using psychoactive substances. And then to tell people you are talking to, to make them understand, because they're trying to use the drug, especially in the German language, a drug in English, you have still drug store. and terminology being used in a bit more innocent way. In Germany, a drug is always like a pharmaceutical substance or an illegal drug. So we kind of, in Germany, even journalists from, you know, all places would use alcohol and drugs. Alcohol, for instance, in Germany is not a drug. That's so crazy.

Same in the U.S. they have drugs and alcohol. Alcohol is a drug. Like, what are you talking about? Why are they separate that? It's the hardest drugs. But so I remember, I'm not sure if I told that anecdote before I was standing and talking to that one guy and he asked me what he was doing and I told him about my books, etc. And he's like, well, I can't say much about it because I've never used to drug. And he was standing there and I'm not kidding you.

And I'm not exaggerating anything. He was standing there. He had an espresso with sugar in front of him. It was in the evening, it was party with a lot of sugar. And in his hand was a glass who was, I think, a vodka red bull and a cigarette. It's hilarious. It was like, I looked at him. Like, I was really, I looked at him and I was like,

Is there a camera around here, right? You're filming me? Really? You've never used a drug? And he's like, no, I've never used a drug. And I'm like, okay, let me take you slowly through it. There's caffeine in your coffee and there are like a dozen other substances that, you know, could be called a drug. But let's keep that, you know, out of the equation.

Then there's sugar, which is technically a drug, an addictive drug, in your coffee. You're holding a class of Red Bull with vodka, alcohol is a really strong drug. Red Bull, another drug, you know, another drug. And in your cigarette, I'd say, conservatively speaking, there are probably like 60 substances which are addictive and mind altering and etc. So you're sure? Never had it.

And you're like, what you mean? And I think this is really important. We need to make people aware that even if they have never taken a drug, we have taken a drug. They're drug users. And I keep calling people drug consumers with a long history of drug with drug consumption. And they always go like, what? What are you calling me? Yeah.

You're a drug user with a long history of drug drug abuse because if you don't, if you belong to 1% of the population or less than 1% then maybe not, but unless you're a weird or unless you're really outstanding person, like some, some case that, you know, it's really rare to find you're using sugar, you're using caffeine or alcohol or cigarettes or whatever kind of substance, you know, and we need to make people aware, again, that they have, you know, altered mental states, bodily states, they are influence. And that's what we all do. We influence our moods and our wakefulness states and our sleep and our, we use food and drugs to modulate mental states and modulate bodily states. That's what humans do and that's what animals do.

koala koalas know how to eat certain leaves of a tree, I don't know, eucalyptus or some. Yeah, I think so. They know how to use certain leaves. I think, I'm not sure if it's the older leaves. I don't remember exactly to downregulate their temperature. If it's hot and if it's too cold, they're using the younger leaves or other leaves. they know exactly how to do it to get their body warmer.

So, you know, we should, I think we should at least at least be as intelligent as qualas about our view. I'm really sorry, I need to. No worries. No worries, man. I think that's a good spot to leave it, man. I love talking to you, Sebastian. I love where our conversations go.

And I love the fact that every one of our sessions, have gotten to be a little bit more intimate and a little bit more, you know, they're just wonderful, man, and I really appreciate your time. But before let you go, man, maybe you can give people like the amount of space. Yeah.

Before I let you go, man. Can you give people a taste of the books that you've written? Maybe if you have a few, like, maybe you can show them out some people that are watching, can see it. And I would love for people that are listening to get to hear the tiles so they can go out and buy them. The books you've written have been awesome, man.

And I want people that are listening to this or people that are looking for speakers to really understand the brilliance and the pedigree that you have, man. Oh, my. Now you set the bar too high. That's how I do it. I can only limbo below that, but I'm trying. Okay. A quick one through. This was the first book that I published High Insights.

on cannabis and it's kind of like a the foundational work for for things that I've done later and it focused on that was the first thing phenomenon that I was interested in insights during a cannabis high like the aha effect where you're like

whoa I suddenly have an insight and I looked into the whole inside psychology but but looking at that effect I found that I need to look at all the other cognitive effects the cannabis high has as like on pattern recognition and on your retention and how the combination of all those cognitive effects combine to under certain circumstances lead to insights. So that's not available anymore. It's out of and then I almost got a really big,

that was in 2010, I published that. And then I got a literary agent in the States who wanted to really put that out. And at some point he said, oh, no, but you're writing also about your own experience, your prejudiced. And it kind of never really hit the own market. Then I thought, okay, I need to do something different so that I can actually reach a broader audience. and I wrote high the positive potential of marijuana, which could have been also the positive mind-eltering potential of marijuana,

because this is not about medicine or medical uses, but it's really also focusing on, again, like slowly here, just on how cannabis can alter mental states. But it's essays, and it also has an essay on prohibition. It made a huge, in 2013, 13 made a huge splice. in the media here in Germany. And I thought a lot about how do I write this book and I put it in shorter essays. It's much easier to read.

And it contains a series of photos that I've taken here for instance, cannabis cannabis seed. Oh, yeah. And then on another cannabis seed where I wanted to show people also how different the genetics are, you know, even on the visual level, it's easy to see that there are different varieties. And so the photography helped me a lot to explain many things about cannabis that helped my message. And also the photography helped me to get in the media. Because if you look at the media, also the imagery is always the same about cannabis,

you know, like all smoking a joint and very stereotypical people of, you know, et cetera. So I wanted that was important for me also to put out different imagery and imagery that's much more enlightening and giving people a different sense of what the whole thing is about. Then I published The Art of the High, your guide to using cannabis for an outstanding life. No, that's not true. I'm sorry. How dare you? That came out before 2015. What Hashes did to Walter Benjamin, I talked about that book before.

It's also about, it's like 20, 20 more essays on cannabis, including an essay on Car Sagan and about John Lennon and the body image perception, for instance, but also about how cannabis probably affected society through luminous. like Benjamin. Yep. Then came this one, the Art of the High in 2021, which I published also in German and English, and it's a guide to using cannabis for an outstanding life. So it's a very short and easy reading that introduces readers, beginners, but also experienced cannabis users to, it's like a really how to guide how to use cannabis for various mind enhancements, including something about dosing and something about choosing varieties and Sativa Indica and

that still makes sense. And those information you need to make a decision on how to use cannabis, but it's also, again, it's not about medical uses, it's really about enhancement uses. And the last book I published in last year for hilarious press or with hilarious press is elevated. Cannabis as a tool for mind enhancement, which is based on my German book, High, on this one. But it's a much more in-depth exploration. It's still written in a popular scientist style, popular science style. So it's, I think, good to read, but it's much more detailed about the cannabis enhancements.

It also has an article on the cannabis prohibition. But I think that's the one to read now if you want to get a good overview of it doesn't contain everything in my research, but it's a good overview of my work, I think, and an in-depth exploration of my, and my, And also new stuff, you know, new essays, three new essays on cannabis and addiction and the endocannabinoid system, the hypothesis that I put out on the endocannabinoid system being probably one of the most important systems that underlie very, the most complex. And that's, I think I leave you all with that thought. I find it also, we come back to artificial intelligence now, I find it interesting that we are seeing enhancements of the most complicated core human abilities and highest developed core human abilities

during the high creativity and most defining human abilities, mental abilities, creativity, introspection, empathy, and our ability to come up with great insights. Yeah.

That makes we think. And the endocannabinoid system might be underlying all those most complex human abilities and might be an important factor in sustaining those

abilities. So, yeah, so that's elevated. And again, as a society, we've managed, we have suppressed, prohibited this plan for 100 years or so that may give us something to think about too. Yeah, isn't interesting that over that same period of time, we've have a lack in creativity, a lack of introspection, a lack of empathy. It's like not, yeah, yeah, it's kind of fit right on top of each other, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. So, ladies and gentlemen, I hope that you have a beautiful week. I hope that you realize no matter what's going on out in the world, you can become a better version of yourself.

I hope you understand your relationships. And I hope you choose to rise above the riff, wrath, and find a way to make your life beautiful. And you can do it. Maybe it's as easy as getting it. getting up five minutes earlier or going for a walk or telling someone you love them. I hope you choose to do all of those things. That's all we got. Go down to the show notes.

Check out Sebastian. His website will be down. Wait, where can people find you, Sebastian? You still got the same, I know you got their website. Can you put that out there for people?

Yeah, it's Sebastianmaricolo. Dot de. And I'm working on my blog currently. I'm going to put it up again soon, but it contains a lot of information on my books. and you get all the links to my work there and all the information. And I know a few people have been reaching, they've been hitting me up looking for you.

Are you still, are you still consulting and going out? I don't know. I think you were coming to Canada or the US. I don't know if you came or you're gone. Or is that someone wanted you to come and speak at event? Is that something they could do by reaching out to you? Yeah, yeah, definitely reach out to me.

And I'm happy to talk about also. I'm working on workshops. jobs based on the art of the high. And I think what's probably really interesting to people is, of course, the whole general overview of the enhancement uses of cannabis to come to a better understanding also for people who are working with addiction, but also from the psychedelic field to understand why people are using it, how they are using it, what's the science, what do we know about the science behind it?

But I'm also specialized on, you know, a part of that is to how to use cannabis for creativity. And I think it's a very complicated matter. But it's there are some easy ways to help people, if you're a musician, if you're a writer or so, to come to a really better and incredibly productive way to work with cannabis as a mind enhancement tool for creativity. And so if I'm working on to prepare workshops for that too. So if you're interested, please just reach out to me and we'll see. Yeah, I know psychedelic science 2025 is coming up. And my friend Ben is watching.

You should be Sebastian over there to be giving presentations, man. I think that, I think there's so much that people could benefit from your work, you know. And you're always seemed to be five steps ahead, man. It's always a pleasure talking to you. I hope everybody goes down to the show notes, checks out Sebastian. That's all we got for today, ladies and gentlemen. I hope you have a beautiful day alone. Thank you.