TrueLife - Enthea- From Boardroom to Breakroom: Psychedelic Wellness Initiatives in Every Workplace Level

Episode Date: March 19, 2024

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/Introducing Sherry Rais,  a catalyst for transformative change in the realms of social impact and mental health advocacy. With a robust background spanning startups, non-profits, and international organizations like the United Nations and World Bank, Sherry has dedicated her career to fostering efficiency, equity, and purpose-driven initiatives. Armed with a Master’s in Public Policy and Management and a Bachelor’s in Neuroscience and International Development, her journey culminated in a profound commitment: expanding access to psychedelic-assisted therapy to alleviate human suffering. As the CEO of Enthea, Sherry leads a charge towards equitable mental healthcare, addressing the dual challenges of accessibility and affordability head-on. With a vision rooted in inclusion and innovation, Sherry is not just reimagining mental health; she’s pioneering a movement towards holistic well-being for all.http://linkedin.com/in/sherryraishttps://www.enthea.com/ One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scar's my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark. fumbling, furious through ruins maze, lights my war cry, born from the blaze.

The poem is Angels with Rifles. The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Serafini, check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the True Life podcast. I hope spring break or this springtime is bringing you smiles and flowers and maybe a little a rain. I hope the sun is shining the birds is singing. I hope the wind is at your back. I have an incredible guest who's doing incredible things. The one and only is Sherry Reyes, a catalyst for transformative change in the realms of social impact and mental health advocacy. With a robust background spanning startups, nonprofits, and international organizations like the United

Nations and World Bank, Sherry has dedicated her career to fostering efficiency, equity, and purpose-driven initiatives, armed with a master's in public policy and management and a bachelor's in neuroscience and international development, her journey culminated in a profound commitment, expanding access to psychedelic-assisted therapy to alleviate human suffering. As the CEO of Inthea, Sherry leads a charge towards equitable mental health care, addressing the dual challenges of accessibility and affordability head on. With a vision rooted in inclusion and innovation, Sherry is not just reimagining mental health. She's pioneering a movement towards holistic well-being for all.

And I'm super stoked she's doing it. Thank you so much for being here, Sherry. How are you? I'm doing wonderful. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, the pleasure is all mine. I was, for those listening right now, Sherry has a new article in Forbes.

Everybody should go check it out. It's really informative and it's, it speaks volumes of what you're doing. Maybe you could fill us in a little bit on who you are before, who you are, who you were before you became kind of who you are. That could turn into a long, the philosophical conversation of, you know, how long I've been who I am and when that all started and the source. But without getting into the long philosophical conversation, before starting in Thea and before getting involved in the psychedelic space, I spent 10 years working on poverty reduction.

Or maybe I'll start even further back. I grew up in Toronto, Canada, and I'm the daughter of immigrants. And I have always been very attuned to being of service. That is what fills me. It's not even a need. It's the only thing I know is how to just be of service. And so I have spent my life. I think devoted to reducing human suffering, whether it be through poverty reduction or through

access to mental health care or access to psychedelic therapy. It's all different pathways with the same goal of how do we suffer less as people. And so before starting NPN, before getting into the psychedelic space, I spent 10 years consulting to the UN and the World Bank. and in that consulting work, I focused on poverty reduction programs. And I chose to be 100% in the field or on the front lines, you could say. And I chose to be in very resource-constrained environments. So I would come home back to Canada for 10 days a year.

And the rest of the time, I would be in countries like South Africa, Lus Situ, Afghanistan, Yemen, Nigeria, the list goes on and I'd be working on different projects in those types of countries, not to bundle them all together, but just to say I was not in North America. And I got to see firsthand the effects of intergenerational poverty and trauma and conflict and war on community. And that led me to to maybe not who I am, but where I am today. Wow. I can only imagine what it's a trip.

It sounds like a psychedelic trip in a way to get to see the resilience, the anguish, the generational trauma, the generational wins. And, man, I can understand how that could really lead you to ask some huge questions. Was there a few really big questions that in your trauma, travels that led you to this idea of like, you know, I think, I think maybe psychedelic therapy could be something that helps everybody. Like, what's the big questions you asked yourself? Yeah. So I guess one was just, I always really had a passion for mental health. And so I, I, one question, I went into development work thinking, you know, how do we create more awareness? So in terms of questions,

How do we create more awareness about mental health issues in a resource-constrained environment? Like in an environment where people are struggling to think about their next meal, how do we even bring the conversation about mental health? In high school, I think I've shared this story before, but not with you. In high school, I sort of went a little extra with a school project, and I decided to sleep on the street. I was doing a project on homeless people, and I decided to, the teacher did not ask me to do that.

But I decided to sleep on the streets to get to know the homeless population better in Toronto. And my conclusion from that was really, oh my gosh, everyone that I spoke to, and I must have spoken to over 50 people, had some sort of behavioral health conditions. So, you know, we keep thinking we need to solve homelessness, but we really need to develop mental health.

And so I became passionate about that and studied psychology in undergrad. And then, you know, married that with my passion for development work and those types of things. So went on to do work in resource-constrained environments. But I went on with this hat of what I just said, like, how do we spread awareness and create awareness about mental health in resource-constrained environment? And so that's one question to frame everything. I got, as many people do out of college, I got, you know, sort of, I was lucky. I got thrown into a career that brought me meaning and was fulfilling and was purposeful.

But it was a little bit, it steered away from the mental health focus. I was so focused on poverty reduction. That was my, you know, lane. And I had some niche focuses within that realm that mental health became less of a conversation. And so another question was like, okay, well, how do I bring this back to the table? How do I make, get people to look at this again? And to explore that question, you know, I asked another question of, well, how do we treat mental health in a way that's effective? Because I was working on all of these different initiatives. And over the years, I was responsible for also

showing, you know, impact or outcomes, like doing reports to show what were the, you know, quantitative impacts of X and Y project that we did, let's say, in Nigeria. And if the goal is to reduce poverty, I would go and do a report and show, okay, well, we implemented this initiative in this area. And two years later, we've seen 50% of people come out of poverty. That's great. what about the other 50%. And so that question really led me to, well, we've controlled for access to basic health care, we've controlled access to basic education, we've tried to work on infrastructure, we've given families money, we've tried to help them find jobs.

We haven't done anything for mental health. And statistically, 50% of people or up to 70% are experiencing a mental health issue, especially in those areas. And so to me, there was this clear line. It wasn't clear for everyone, but to me, it was clear that, like, okay, we can't fully address or fully eradicate poverty without addressing mental health. And so then the question was, how do we do that effectively? And this is what led. This is what really led to psychedelics because I started looking at data and all of the things we were doing to treat mental health, even in, you know, higher income countries like Canada and the U.S., to be honest, aren't.

really working. That's not to say they're not working at all. That's not to say that, you know, people are not feeling a little bit better from medications and therapy. There's definitely some symptom reduction, but we are not really getting to the root cause. We're not doing anything curative. People on medications are often on medications for years, if not decades. People in therapy are often in therapy for years and not decades. And so to me, that tells a story of of something is broken. And this led me to psychedelics because the data tells a very different story. I can imagine your teacher must have been like, wait, wait, you did what?

That's so great. That's so awesome that you did that. And I think it shows a pattern of success in your life that began at an early age. You said something in there, too, that if I start closer to the beginning, it's this idea of finding meaning. Like that, do you think that there's a, there is a relationship between an individual not having meaning in their life and mental illness. Wow. You have a very deep question.

You were doing awesome stuff. Like I'm trying to get in your mind. I'm like, how does she know that? Like, why would she, she stuff out on the street? That's amazing. You talk to all these people firsthand. On some level, I think that, like, you are figuring out this crisis of meaning. And I think that's imperative. to help people. I think medically we are still a long way

away from having I mean, we can have the conversations but I don't think that's going to show up in Scientific American or the DSM. I think you wrong. Maybe in Scientific American, yes. Maybe not in the DSM. I don't think

like, you know, as an psychiatrist is going to be like, you don't have meaning in your life, and that's what's causing the dependence. However, I think every part of, you know, like when you said that, every part of the inside lit up. And I think instinctually and anecdotally from talking to others

and from like this engagement, just talking to your facial reaction, my facial reaction, I think, yes, that having meaning is a really important part of, like, life's journey. I don't want to say it's the key to happiness because I also think I'm opening another candleware. Yeah, do it. Open it up. I think that I don't think happiness is the goal. Like people say, like, are you happy or, you know, what's the point of life?

It's to be happy. I think happiness is a side effect of having meaning. That's something I've always sort of said. So if you have meaning or purpose in your life, then like happiness will be a side effect. But similarly to what you alluded to, I think a lot of people, not just people who have, you know, behavioral health conditions like depression or anxiety or obesity, but like we live in a world where it's very easy to not have meaning because it's very easy to be distracted.

So it's very easy to feel lonely or isolated or unfulfilled. Because it's like, you know, one dopamine fix to the next, to the next to the next, without slowing down and being like, wait, what am I doing? What actually brings me joy? What actually brings me meaning? It's, it's, thank you for answering that. I know it's a big question and I think you answered it beautifully. I bring it up because it seems to me in the world of corporate America or just when you go

out and you find a job today, people find themselves working really hard. being very productive, but not living very meaningful. And I think that the messaging can come, I think that we could do a better job at messaging, like leading people that are in position to leadership, they could provide more meaning for people. It's on some level, the messaging and the shared goals and the shared sacrifice could be something that becomes a catalyst for a more meaningful way of production. And I think that's what's happening in theater. I think that's kind of like, I'm on peeling back the curtain and showing the goal a little bit.

You know what? This is turning out to be perhaps a great conversation and maybe a good marketing brainstorm for me. Ah! Maybe Nthia should be talking about bringing meaning back into the workplace. I'm not sure. Yes! Without a doubt. No, I really, I agree with you that, you know, what Nthia is trying to do is we're trying to talk to employers about more holistic

innovative, curative ways of treating mental health. So starting with psychedelic health care and starting specifically with ketamine cystic therapy. But, you know, what does doing these medicines lead to, right? It leads to connecting, again, with loved ones, connecting with nature, connecting with community. It leads to rediscovering your purpose and rediscovering your or discovering for the first time,

you know, what gives you meaning. And taking that back to the workplace, if people went to work every day feeling fulfilled and feeling like their life was meaningful and feeling like their life was purposeful, I'm pretty sure they would be more effective and productive at work as well.

Or they might quit their job and do something. Which is not bad, you know, because then everyone ends up, you know, the net effect of everyone doing that is we all end up doing things that are aligned with our purpose, right? So we have working in industries where we are happy and then that leads to probably better work. That's really well said. I think that it's really well said.

And I'm almost 50 and I worked for 26 years as a UPS driver. And like that's why I understand the lack of meaning in things before. And I see this wave of young entrepreneurs like yourself and people that are committed to creating a better way forward to help build a better world. And I'm excited for it. Like I see this robust explosion of creativity finding its way back into the workplace. And I think that psychedelics are a huge part of that. If we look back to what happened in the late 50s and the 60s, we saw creativity finding a way to grow. We saw this flower moving up through the sidewalk. And I think that that's what, you know, healthcare can be in the future. If we're able to find a way to bring some of

these medicines back into the workplace. Maybe you could speak to some of the obstacles and some of the successes you've had so far in approaching some of these businesses and entities. Thank you. Yeah. So one, I want to start with, thank you for being a UPS driver. UPS or UPSPS, which one. UPS.

UPS driver for so long. And I think it's actually important to point out if you don't mind me pointing this out that that's actually, there are so many jobs that are such important jobs in study, until maybe we get to the day where like there's completely driverless cars and robots delivering mail. But it's such an important job that needs to be done. And I don't want people to think that, you know, if everyone does psychedelic-assistic therapy, we're going to have nobody doing those jobs because actually those jobs are really important. Yeah.

really important part of society that these jobs get done. I think it's just, it's done differently when people doing them also feel connected, fulfilled, happy with themselves, free of depression, free of addiction, connected to their families. So this was a little bit of a tangent, but I wanted to say that work to me is extremely meaningful work. And there's like so many roles in society that need to get filled, right? And there's like an understanding when you when I think for everyone it might be different, but when like when you when you have an appreciation of the interconnectedness of the world, you also have an appreciation of like the different roles. Yeah. Again, getting too philosophical.

No, I love it. It's good. But then getting to your question about, you know, the achievements and the obstacles within the SIA. So some achievements have been, we've been able to build out a network of vetted and credential providers that are nationwide. And that means people have access to providers. And we've built that provider network carefully such that, you know, we have people that represent the LGBTQIA plus community, people that are BIPA, people that are Spanish speaking, people from different cultural backgrounds. And so having diversity in our provider network is super important because it's not just numbers. It's also what the provider network consists of so that people feel comfortable with the provider they're going to.

And that vetting process is also really important to give some context. Because ketamine assisted therapy and psychedelic-assisted therapy is new, we don't yet have third-party credentialing guidelines or board. These things are starting to form, but they're not fully operational yet. So with psychiatrists or psychologists, you have licensing requirements that need to be kept up to date, and you have a board that certifies you, even with lawyers and doctors, like most practices that are specific like this, have that. But you don't have this with ketamine-assisted therapists. And in via, we had to develop our own credentialing process to vet providers and standards of care. and protocols and guidelines.

So that's been a great win for us that we took the time to build the infrastructure rather than just like racing to grow. And then on the growth side, we've seen customers become interested in this. We've signed on quite a few customers. We have almost 200 customers in the pipeline, and some of them are large Fortune 100 companies.

So there's like interest from, you know, some of the biggest companies in the U.S. wanting to offer this, which to me is an indication of more open-mindedness and curiosity. And we've also seen incredible outcomes. So from people that completed ketamine-assisted therapy with Enthea at one-year follow-up, meaning like not a month after they finished their ketamine, but a year after they finished their ketamine-assisted therapy, we saw 86% reduction in. PTSD, a 67% reduction in depression, a 65% reduction in anxiety. And we also saw that 82% of people who completed chemotherapy were no longer on antidepressants one year later. And so to me, there's like nothing else that exists that is like curative in that way. And like I don't use that we're loosely, but you know, that's kind of what the data is telling us. And so just to know that we're helping people get off their medicine feel healed is the biggest win I could have ever imagined for.

And I hope to give more people access to this. Yeah, it's wonderful. It speaks to the idea of a holistic community where, you know, imagine an insurance company that provided you with this bridge, to a more meaningful way of life, like just providing people to these new types of therapies. I really think that the better workplace and the better environment comes from the individual becoming a better person, right? Like when we all find out that thing

that's really bothering us, like, you know, it's not the mountain you can't climb, it's the rock in your shoe. And so when you take the time, you take that rock out of your shoe, all of a sudden you can move again, and you can feel free and you can feel love again, and you can feel thankful again,

and you can feel happy again, And when you can feel like that, you can provide better service to whatever you're doing, whether a UPS driver, whether you're working anywhere in the community, you can find meaning in your job if you can learn to love yourself, you know. And that feels like it's been stripped from us. And it's just interesting. Here's an interesting thought process I had in my mind. As an avid reader, and I'm sure you are too, and so are tons of my listeners. We see this idea that Huxley put forth in Brave New World. And sometimes people are worried that maybe ketamine or some of these other psychedelics can be more of a disassociative instead of something that heals people.

What do you think about that? What are your thoughts? So I agree that psychedelics can be a disassociative. Or they are like they, you know, literally are, you are out in an altered state and often out of body for a. significant period of time. And yet, I think, I think there, it's more about our, the protocols we have in place for safety and for harm reduction around that disassociative experience. So with the right set and setting, and, you know, we talk about set and setting all the time

in the second out space, but, you know, having the right set, like mindset and intentions and having the right context and environmental setting. is what makes the world of a difference of this being a powerful transformative healing dissociative experience or it being a potentially harmful or dangerous one. And so, yes, I absolutely agree. These are dissociatives. And I don't think that's a bad thing with the right set and setting. And I think what we've seen not just through Enthea's data, but more broadly, like,

thanks to the whole massive research community that's, that's been doing the hard work decades and decades. And even before that, for all of the different cultures that I've been practicing with these medicines for millennia, and we hear anecdotally from them too, that in the right set and setting, that dissociative is super powerful and helpful and healing. And in the wrong set and setting is when things can be not as good.

But I'm repeating myself a bunch to say that I, agree with you and seven setting matters. It's really well said. And I don't think you're, I think that you were maybe driving a point home and I think it's well done. I find myself pondering this word awareness lately. Like I'm a huge fan of psychedelics. Like I, for me, I'm a big fan of psilocybin, some other ones along the ways.

But I've used them extensively and they've really helped me understand who I am, get through different crises in my relationships with people I care about it. And I think it can do the same. but I'm often reminded of this idea of awareness. And it seems to me that sometimes ketamine or these different psychedelics can help us be more aware. How do you think that this new foundation of awareness could be helpful, like not only in the workplace but in relationships? And do you see, do you think about that word awareness too? No, that's interesting.

I think I think about the word awareness. in a complementary way to what you're saying. I do see what you're saying, so I don't disagree. But my mind first goes to rumination and how psychedelics, like when I think of awareness, I think about ruminating, right? And so how psychedelics are known to decrease activity in our default mode network, which is the area of our brain that's responsible for reflecting maybe a bit too much. It's important. We all need activity in our e-at-mode network. But in people with depression and, you know, anxiety, we have too much activity in that area of our brain. So psychedelics help reduce the activity there and reduce the ruminating. And not to reduce our awareness, but, you know, to reduce that, you know, negative self-doubt and self-criticism and to help with like ego dissolution. So to me there's like this.

you know, coming down of awareness in one way. I don't want to say of self, of self, like self awareness, but like of all the negative. And then there's like a corresponding to your point, increase of awareness outwards to others, to people that you love, to make sure to, for some people,

like why did Hopkins have to come up with a way of measuring mystical experiences after all of the psychedelic research, like that didn't exist before, and it's because that these psychedelic experiences are mystical experiences. There's this awareness of, you know, you can call it God or the source or, you know, whatever you want to call it,

respective of your religious belief. There's an awareness there of something. And so, and so I do think it increases awareness in that way while decreasing that sort of negative kind of self-doubt in those negative thought patterns. That makes them. It totally does. It totally does.

And I love the idea of ruminating on things. When we're ruminating on psychedelics and potential workplaces, you look at Dr. Bronner, who's found this way to incorporate these therapies into their particular model. And when I think about Dr. Bronner's and psychedelics, I think about culture and look at the culture of productivity. and look at the culture of awareness and look at the culture of products and the resilience and the power behind that brand. Like I should think that other brands would look at them and I can see that being contagious, right?

Wouldn't that be beautiful if that was contagious, Sherry? Yeah. I mean, for anyone who got to meet or be around David Bruner, it's definitely a contagious energy he has, like he's an ending run super. charismatic and just has that in him and also the culture of the company. It's such an incredible example and we are so grateful that they were our first customer because we can't imagine a more perfect first customer. Like they believe in psychedelics, they believe in mental health, they believe in holistic healing, they have this fantastic product, their ethos of, you know,

philanthropy and taking care of others and taking care of their environment. Like it really is the most perfect company to have started with. And like even the fact that like we talked about UPS workers, like they have people making soap that are in factories making soap. But this is like this healing is as important to them as it is as someone in the finance department. Like it's really for everyone. And they've really embodied that in their culture.

And I will even give them like a huge kudos. Like each employer can decide how much of this benefit that they want to for their employees. Very similar to like, you know, if you have medical or dental or vision insurance, you may be responsible for doing a co-pay or co-insurance or paying 20% of your premiums. Like every company does things differently, but I will say that Dr. Brown has covered this benefit 100%, which is really magical to say the least. So yeah. It's refreshing to see people care about the people that are in their community and around them. You know what? There's another sort of interesting correlation that happens.

It seems to me that in workplaces, and we talk about company culture, the internal dialogue of the individual employee is probably very similar to the internal dialogue of the boardroom. You know, and if we could change that, I think you could see that whole thing changed. Like, it's fractal in a way, right? That's so interesting. Yeah. So one, related to your question now and even the question before of like you mentioned Bronner's like how I think you're alluding to like this is contagious why isn't everyone doing this and um David Browner definitely has like I said a contagious in a good way personality and unfortunately we live in a capitalistic

world and especially society in North America and so yes if you have not even if you've done a psychedelic or had a psychedelic experience before. But if you have those values ingrained in you, if you live a life of meaning and purpose, you might look at Dr. Barners and be like, wow, I want to do that with my, as a CEO or as a board member, you might say, I want to do that with my company too. But if you are just only thinking about your bottom line and profit and loss and runway and all of these things. Like if that's all you're thinking about, you may not instinctually think about, oh, I want to offer this healing modality to my employees. Having said that, I have a huge argument

to make for those people who are capitalistic because there's a huge ROI for employers, even if they don't care about healing, they'll end up saving money. If that's their goal, they will end up saving money by offering this benefit because you're getting employees who are more productive and less absent and probably more engaged and aren't going to quit and spending less on therapy and spending less on antidepressants. So like there's and there's the list goes on and on. But, uh, but that contagious factor might not spill over immediately unless you're living a purposeful, meaningful sort of life.

Um, and I also agree with you that it can be, it's easier, honest. to be honest, in companies for it to be top down. Like, you know, this is why, like, leadership is so important. And CEOs and C-Suite's and people in leadership positions really set the tone for a lot of companies. And yes, from bottom up, like an employee thinking about this and feeling that they have meeting and wanting to have access to healing, like can be a huge advocate and can be a pathway to getting these benefits. and other benefits in their company, but I will say it's probably easier coming from the type. Yeah, and I think anybody who spent time in management understands it's very difficult to get people to do things that you want them to do.

And unfortunately, the best way to do that sometimes is through fear. You know, that seems to be, if you read any business book from like the early 2000s, it's like, scare your employees, you know, take this away from, be the bad, like it's such horrible advice, but it works sometimes, but only to a degree. And I think that what you read in 2000s is a direct reflection of what's happening now. Yeah, that works for a little bit, but that's also like the same mantra of an abusive parent.

Yeah, it works until it doesn't. And then you've ruined everything. And here we are today. I mean, it works and then until it doesn't. And then you're creating trauma, right? Like so parenting, but then you have kids who then grow up with trauma and most of their trauma will come from their childhood. Right. Like no disrespect to all the amazing parents who tried their best.

And then you have these employees that were pressured and, you know, fear was instilled in them. And then what happens when you have something like a pandemic? You have this great resignation. Like, why did so many people quit their job? Well, it wasn't just because of COVID, right? It was a buildup of I'm not happy with my work and I don't enjoy coming to work every day and this is not giving me meaning. And so I'm going to find something else.

Yeah. On a different level, as someone who is an entrepreneur and someone who has spent so much time traveling around the world and sometimes traveling to other countries is like traveling to a different dimension because you get to experience things from a different angle, which is kind of like the actual definition of dimension. right? Like just a different dimension. It's not like you're in a different time and space, even though you might be depending on what calendar you're in. However, I'm kind of birdwalking here. Like, do you see the world beginning anew? Like, it almost seems like it's springtime to start

hearing people talk about bringing psychedelics into the workplace and to begin to see people that maybe started with a great resignation, becoming entrepreneurs, to see people searching meaning in their life, to see people actively trying to solve the trauma in their life. It seems to me like we're on the cusp of a new spring and I'm wondering what your thoughts are as an entrepreneur. You know, this one's probably going to take a left turn.

I think if I'm being 100% authentic. Please. Yeah, I guess we're going to go here. I think if you had asked me that, question seven months ago my answer would have been more positive and optimistic

about where I see the world going and collective community and like people seeking alternative healing modalities and having more empathy towards each other and caring for each other like I generally a huge optimist I think I have to be like even in my entrepreneurial journey like you know the the chances of a startup making it are very low and I like never think about that I'm always focused on you know things are going to work out it's going to take a lot of work but things are going to work out and so okay going back to if you had asked me seven months ago I would have given you a very positive optimistic answer and I still see a lot of reasons to be. happy and I see and reasons to be hopeful. I think hope doesn't die. And I see people doing incredible work.

But I do think there is a lot of collective suffering going around in the world right now more than we've seen for decades. And like we haven't seen this many people being killed on a daily basis. for really truly, and not to go there with...

That's all right, yeah. But, and witnessing that, like, I'm a huge empath, so it's, like, political, cultural, all of those reasons aside, like, seeing this level and scale of killing and suffering on a daily basis,

like, just really affects me. And to see that happen and, like, it not being stopped day in and day out, makes me have a less optimistic answer to your question. At this point in time, it will hopefully change in the future if you were to ask me again whenever this is over. It's a great point. And I'm happy that you brought it up.

I think that in a lot of historical books you read, I read stories sometimes about people that had nothing and they refer to that as the best time of their life. And I'm not saying I want that to happen. But it just brings up to me in my mind this idea of maybe we've forgotten what's really important. Maybe it is meaning and maybe it's family and maybe it is, you know, getting to wake up next to the people you love and have everyone be healthy. Like maybe sometimes things have to be, I don't, maybe that's the spring I'm talking about is that the idea that first principles is kind of returning. Sometimes it's pretty ugly, but maybe we're moving back to first principles.

And it sounds to it like when we, if we talk about the mission of Enthea, like, hey, we're bringing a little bit of meaning back to people. We're building relationships. And we've talked about Dr. Brunner. We've talked about you traveling quite a bit. I think it is a return to first principles. And if you have your health and your freedom, maybe you got a lot. Maybe that's worth celebrating. Maybe that's worth getting goosebumps for and being like, today the sun is shining.

My wife loves me and my kid has a smile on their face. that I'm crushing it. You know? I agree. Going back to what we talked about before, we have built a world of distractions. And I totally agree if we go back to like what really counts, what really matters, like, these are the things. Like if we have a roof over our heads, if we have genuinely, if you have food to eat, if we have our kids are safe and healthy or our pets are safe and healthy. But yeah, these are the simple things that really matter.

It seems to me like when we take this all the way back to the beginning, we talk about the project you did by going out and living on the streets. And then we fast forward to you being older and touring to the front lines of some of some pretty poor communities. It sounds to me like you had to visit these dark places in order for you to become the ray of sunlight that you've become today, right? This goes back to who am I, who are we? Full circle. Look at that. Are we a product of our experiences?

What world does free will or faith or destiny play? All of it. All of it. It's probably a mix of all of it. I will never know what I would have been working on had I not had those experiences. I would like to think that my parents instilled a lot of, duty in me and a sense of altruism and service. But definitely if I hadn't had those, well, why did I choose those experiences? Like another question, right? Was there free will there or not?

I'm not sure. It's pretty, done some pretty crazy things because I felt I had no other choice because I felt that's like what would bring me meaning, right? Yeah. So, So maybe it's about like drowning out the noise and like trying to listen. Like people say listen to your gut or your intuition. You know, maybe it's about like really listening to like what pulls you in a direction of purpose and meaning. And I definitely tried to listen to those even when I set out on that career like after college and working in all these different countries definitely was not a financial reason i

did not get a lot um the first year i was a full-on volunteer um and i turned down some pretty high-paying jobs out of college um to go and like be a volunteer and help others so all of this to say yeah, listening to that voice of really trying to block out the noise, listen to the voice of like what brings you meeting, what brings you purpose, I think will lead you to where you're meant to be and there could be different pathways or iterations. If I wasn't here where I am today, I don't know where I'll be, but I'm pretty sure it would be something similar and focused on serving others and helping. That's so awesome.

Your parents sound like amazing people. I'm sure they're super proud of you. Maybe I know we're kind of coming up to the top of the hour here before, but for all my listeners and some of the people that follow you and definitely listen to the podcast, are there some tips or tricks you use to listen to your gut or listen to your heart? Like what helps you drown out the noise?

Like, what if they're like, this girl's on an amazing path? I want to hear the song of my heart. Like, what are some tips and tricks you do to tune into that? Wow. I don't know if I'm in the business of tips and tricks. Let me see. Which is what night work for me may totally not work for it. You know, this is why I don't like, I'm getting very,

I'm sharing a lot of my opinions, but I, you know, I don't like those, like, articles that are, like, you know, top hundred things because, like, everyone is so different. But I will just say what works for me. Yeah. And I'm not sure if it works for others. I spend a lot of time alone and in solitude. I'm also an introvert, so maybe for extroverts, that doesn't work.

But for me, carving out a lot of time to be alone helps me listen to that thing. I also enjoy, like, moving alone or exercising. So I run. And people run and they listen to podcasts or they listen to music. And I definitely used to run like that. But now wholeheartedly, sometimes I run and I'm like responding to emails or text or on the phone. But when I'm not doing that, I am not listening to music or podcasts. I'm trying to run in silence.

I practice gratitude, which sounds very cheesy. but and in a very simple trick way, like any time I'm brushing my teeth, which is hopefully twice a day, I am like thinking about the things that I'm grateful for. And I, oh, here's the most important one. Sorry for the long dragging.

Not at all. That's awesome. I am very intentional in everything I do. That's probably the most important thing. And that one I think I could make, I could feel comfortable saying as a blanket statement for everyone. Like in everything we do, I think we should be intentional. Like whether it's like, should I eat this? Not that we should be crippled with every decision, but it's like very intentional.

Like, why am I taking a break to watch TV right now? Do I really want to be wasting an hour watching TV? Maybe I do it. That's great. But like taking the moment to be intentional about it rather than just doing. would be my best advice. I think it's great advice. Well, I think I've walked you right up here to the top of the hour.

I didn't know you're on a time limit, but I really enjoyed this conversation. It's really fun. I think that maybe in the future, we should have a more philosophical conversation about the whys and the hows and stuff, but I'm super thankful for your time. But before I let you go today, where can people find you?

What do you have coming up and what are you excited about? people can find me on LinkedIn they can also go on the N-T-A website www-W-W-N-T-H-E-A which is E-N-T-H-E-A- dot com

they can also email me personally it's just sherry at N-thia.com S-H-E-R-R-Y so that's where people can find me and Thea also has an Instagram page too

and then what's coming up and thea will be doing another fundraising round so that's coming up for us we are growing our customer base so we're talking to more and more employers I'm honestly always at different conferences I wish I could give you the list of ones I will be at but the calendar knows

and yeah those are the things coming up fantastic so ladies and gentlemen and corporations of all sizes if you are in the business of being productive and having a healthy well-being that is contagious for your employees and customers, you should definitely reach out to Sherry and check out this next round of funding. I'll put all the links in the show notes below. Sherry, hang on briefly afterwards. But to everybody else, I hope you have a beautiful day.

I hope you choose to live a life of intention. And I hope you realize that you're a miracle and one's about to happen to you. That's all we got for today, ladies and gentlemen. Aloha. Thank you.