TrueLife - Fungi, Technology, and Global Exploration: The Marc Violo Journey

Episode Date: November 17, 2023

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/Aloha, and a warm welcome to our distinguished guest, Marc Viola. Marc’s incredible journey is a testament to the power of curiosity and exploration. Having called India and China home for eight transformative years, he’s delved into the heart of emerging markets, driven by a relentless passion for technology and innovation. From leading digital teams at Tencent, China’s tech giant, to shaping experiential digital campaigns at Ogilvy’s Digital Lab, Marc has carved a unique path.Marc’s work extends beyond boundaries, aligning with the profound mission of MycoStories. MycoStories is an organization dedicated to harnessing the potential of fungi, particularly mushrooms and mycelium, for sustainable solutions. With a focus on research, education, and collaboration, MycoStories seeks to address pressing ecological, societal, and spiritual challenges. From growing meat alternatives to creating new medicines, sustainable biomaterials, environmental remediation, and expanding our collective consciousness, fungi are at the heart of transformative solutions.Today, we are privileged to have Marc Viola here, a trilingual globetrotter with a deep commitment to innovation for the greater good. His experiences in multiple countries and rich multilingual background reflect his innate curiosity towards diverse cultures and his desire to drive positive change. Marc, welcome to this enlightening conversation, as we explore the intersection of technology, innovation, and the profound potential of fungi in our world. Thank you for sharing your remarkable journey with us.http://mviolo.wix.com/digitalhttp://linkedin.com/in/marcviolohttps://www.mycostories.com/ One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark. fumbling, furious through ruins

maze, lights my war cry born from the blaze. The poem is Angels with Rifles. The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Kodak Serafini. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the True Life podcast. I hope everybody's having a beautiful day. I hope the sun is shining.

I hope the birds are singing and the wind is at. your back. And more than that, I hope you know that in your moments of consequence, in your moments of dark despair, that the world is conspiring to help you. If you just look around, if you take a deep breath, I promise you, you will see a sign that says to keep moving. Ladies and gentlemen, I have an incredible show for you today. A warm welcome, everyone, to our distinguished guest, Mark Viola. Mark's incredible journey is a testament to the power of curiosity and exploration, Having called India and China home for eight transformative years, he's delved into the heart of emerging markets, driven by a relentless passion for technology and innovation, from leading digital teams at Tencent, China's tech giant, to shaping experiential digital campaigns at Ogilvy's digital lab. Mark has carved a unique path.

His work extends beyond boundaries, aligning with the profound missions of Myco Stories, ladies and gentlemen. Myco Stories is an organization dedicated to the world. to harnessing the potential of fungi, particularly mushrooms and mycelium for sustainable solutions. With a focus on research, education, and collaboration, MycoStory seeks to address pressing ecological, societal and spiritual challenges, growing meat alternatives to creating new medicines, sustainable biomaterials, environmental remediation, and expanding our collective consciousness. Fungi are at the heart of transformative solutions. Today, we are privileged to have Mark here with us, a trilingual globe trotter with a deep commitment to innovation for a greater good.

His experiences in multiple countries and rich multilingual background reflect his innate curiosity towards diverse cultures and his desire to drive positive change. Mark, welcome to the True Life podcast. Thanks for being here today. Wow, George. What an intro. I'm feeling all that positive Hawaiian energy comes straight through the Ethernet cables under the Pacific coast and where I am in Japan today. You know, it's amazing what can transpire through those lines. You know, on some level, maybe we're connecting like the mycelium does. Even though we're so far away, I feel like you can really look into someone's eyes and their spirit a little bit.

Even though it's through this box that we're looking through, I can feel it, man. I'm stoked you're here today, man. Thank you. My pleasure. My pleasure. Fantastic. You know what? It seems interesting to me the way in which we move through life and your life.

and your life traveling around the globe, being part of this giant technical revolution at the time you were, and now kind of branching off into this new chapter of the Mark Viola journey. Maybe you could talk about how that happened and why you decided to make this move and has it always been a part of you

or maybe can give us some backstory there. Yeah, so I guess I was fortunate to grow up in a variety of countries. My dad used to work in software, and so lived in Belgium, Germany, in the US before I was 10, French originally, but I was kind of lucky to have this baby glob troder in me already. And then as soon as I had the opportunity at university to work abroad, to do half of my master's study abroad, I picked India because I was studying business and what better place to learn

about business than in India itself. So, yeah, in India, it was the beginning of, I guess, a truly, you know, transformative eye-opening, however cliche that might sound. Like, it was really like in your face, you know, cultural difference to, you know, the nice European, organized way of life. And I loved it. And, yeah, I wasn't ready to go home just yet after my, my, my, my, my, uh, you know, year living in New Delhi and had an opportunity to work straight out of university in Shanghai, went to check it out. And it was in a time where China was much more open than it is today. And so it really felt like going into the Wild Wild East where everything is possible, you know.

And, you know, I was in my early 20s, spent seven years there. And, you know, you didn't have to, no one really cared about the university studies you did. It was like, what do you know how to do? Can you drive this with a passion? And then go ahead. And if you're good at it, then you'll have a lot of opportunities that unfold like that. And I really love that, which is it strays miles away from the France, you know, kind of fairly linear education to professional career path.

And I really loved that gave me a sense I think I still carry today that anything is possible if you put your heart into it, if you surround yourself with the right people. And so, yeah, ended up, you know, being the only foreigner working in the Tencent Shanghai office, close to a thousand, you know, a thousand Chinese people and me. I completely flanked my Chinese interview. I literally could not speak Chinese. They called me back. I was like, are you sure you're calling the right guy? and and they still gave me the job. They say, you'll learn on the, you know, you'll learn on the job.

And I learned Mandarin in three years and worked on some super exciting projects from gaming to Instant Messenger, which was the text before the socials took it all. And, yeah, it was even in early brainstorming sessions on WeChat as well before it was launched. So incredible, incredible adventure that then, you know, opened a lot of doors for me. So I'm very thankful for that. And yeah, I guess there is a certain jean qua about being a stranger in a strange land. So I've always enjoyed being out of my comfort zone and I think you learn a lot from it. And I think, you know, one of the many ways to do it is by living in a place which you don't call home and trying to call it home.

And that's what I've been doing, yeah, for the past 18 years of Sona. It's wonderful. I think it speaks volumes of how people deal with uncertainty. When you begin at a young age to become familiar with territory that is unfamiliar. You're able to chart your course without the hesitancy that may be conditioned into you if you live this linear path of like being conditioned at a school from kindergarten to 12th grade. You live in this culture. You do this. You know, it's interesting to think about from that aspect of it.

So I guess one of the questions that I've been thinking about for some time is in your belief that brand, Hands can be agents of change through technology. What underlying philosophical principles guide your vision of leveraging technology for positive impact on communities? That's a big question to think for a lot of times, George. When else would I get to talk to you, man? I got to ask the good questions. I know, I know, I know. I know.

So, look, I think, first of all, the thing that drew me in technology was in their early noughties. technology, I believed, was still very much about let's solve problems. You know, how do we connect people? How do we give them a more comfortable life? How do we reduce the amount of time that they need for a given task so that they can enjoy more of, you know, family life or anything else? And I was really driven by that idea. Cool, okay, we're making people's life more enjoyable.

And in the short, you know, I'd say in the 10 years, I worked in tech roles. I've really seen the shift from that to how do we monetize people's attention, especially working, you know, I used to work for a big tech giant. And, you know, there was, you know, definitely the higher ideals are probably less perceptible there than if you're in a small startup that actually has like very committed founders and very visionary founders and so forth. So, you know, that was the first thing that actually pushed me to, you know, completely re-root myself, reorientate myself, seeing that, you know, the, the, the, the boat was kind of losing its direction. I was like, actually, you know, I don't really relate to

that. And, and, and I used to develop a lot of, yeah, a lot of very innovative, interactive campaigns for different large CPG companies, multinationals. And, you know, the, Problem is it was all, yeah, it was all a bit too shallow and maybe just too much money spent for very little tangible results of like, hey, guys, like, are we impacting our communities in a positive way or in any way, you know, like. In any way. And yeah, so that kind of pushed me to actually dedicate my whole life, which is what I've been. doing for the past 10 years focusing on, you know, my motto is, okay, what is the end consequence of my action in the company I'm working for or in the project I'm working as a consultant for? And, you know, this needs to resonate. And if it doesn't, it means you're not really

working on the right thing here. And so going back to your question, I think that's something that, you know, not only the employees within either tech or big brands or small brands should be asking themselves in their day-to-day work, like, okay, so sure, we still need to sell shoes, but how are we selling shoes? How are we making these shoes? And the more people ask themselves that question, you know, the more the big brands, the bigger companies that really have the power to impact the lives of most, more than governments, you know, the more they become agents have changed. So they're more respected for what they're doing.

The more they'll be particularly attractive from a younger workforce, which is actually really looking to working with purpose and impact. But it's hard to find these jobs. And it's hard to also make out what is honest, action-focused CSR or corporate social responsibility. And then what is just another feel-good campaign to put a little greenwashing coat and keep on doing like we've been doing for many years. So I think, you know, I worked in NGOs and big profit businesses and then startups. And, you know, and we'll always need NGOs because there is community or environmental

work that simply can't turn a profit. Or it's so difficult that actually, you know, very few people will want to do it. but there's so much of work which is currently done by an NGO and the problems with an NGO is their balance sheet their financial forecast they go a year and then they stop because they have no idea what the next 24 months in terms of cash flow will be but a business has that so a business can really look into the future and plan for the future when it comes to implementing strategies that, sure, will bring profit, but also will bring positive impact on communities and the environment that they're actually producing their services or products into.

So, yeah, I've been consulting for a variety of companies, helping them in that journey. And it's definitely what has, you know, driven, the force that inhabits me and making me feel good when I, when I wake up in the morning to work. And, yeah, and I feel there is some change, but, you know, it's, it's slow, slow coming, too slow coming to my belief. Yeah, it's, it's fascinating to hear the way in which the evolution of, of, of, of, you know, it's, it's, it's fascinating to hear. profit takes over and sometimes the changing definition of profit. Like profit can mean, hey, we're making this much money on this much project. Or profit could mean, hey, look at this community beginning to flourish. And when we start looking at one of your new projects, Micro Stories,

I'm amazed at what can be thought of in a diverse group of individuals that make the world better. It's almost like a community is like its own little startup. And if you get an artist, you sprinkle in an artist over there. and a tech guy over here and maybe an engineer over here. Like there's some real limitless possibilities that they begin to pop up. And people start seeing the world differently. Has that? Have you noticed that in some of the places you've been and seeing these communities

that you're beginning to build? Yeah. I mean, I think that's what really drives me to this incredible space is, as I mentioned before, as we were kind of prepping for this interview, I think is fascinating is that, It's such a rich and diverse space that brings together artists, researchers, citizen scientist, foragers. And everyone's happy to answer each other, reply emails, pick up, you know, quick, quick phone call, cooperate on some projects. And, you know, that's the essence of a community is, okay, well, you know, you've got this knowledge, I've got this knowledge.

we all agree that actually we don't know much. So how about we start developing some synergies? And, you know, I wasn't in the Silicon Valley in the 80s, but I wonder if, you know, that was a little bit like that as well, you know, where the Bosniak and all of the other, you know, kind of probably talking to each other and, you know, not necessarily being. like hey wait a minute like sorry this is a confidential so yeah and I I've I've really enjoyed so I the last few months I've been traveling meeting a lot of these researchers artists entrepreneurs in the field of fungi and these can be an artist in Indonesia who has been working the last 10 years with his sole body of work being

fungi both micro and macro and It can be a research project in university developing new ways to 3D print mycelium composite scaffolds. It can be an expert Japanese mushroom culture writer who's just published a book on the importance of mushrooms in the Japanese culture. So all of these people have one thing in common is that they all understand and share this, you know, deep respect for nature that comes from mushrooms. And it comes from the realizations that, you know, they play such an important role in the development of ecosystems on our planet. You know, the oldest mushroom is 2.5 billion years old. So talk about a story of adaptability and resilience right there, you know? And yet, that's also one of the things that kind of drew me in.

They've been around forever. They're responsible for so much. You've got some right now in your gut, on your body. You're probably going to have some on your next pizza. and but yet, you know, I was taught so little about them. And I'm like, wait a minute, is this the biggest conspiracy theory ever? And so that's what really drew me in. And as I learn about them, I think as everyone, the more seasoned, the Pals Stamets,

the Merlin Sheldriggs, you know, they're fully convinced. but there's, you know, thanks to them, they're bringing a whole sweep of, you know, new enthusiasts that are discovering through these fascinating organic beings that, you know, there's so much more we can learn from nature. We can inspire ourselves for nature. And so through this, there's a little bit for everyone. You're an artist. Here you go. Not only you've got a new material to play with, but, you know, countless metaphors for creative expression. You're an entrepreneur?

No problem. There's a hundred thousand mushrooms that we know. Sorry, fungi we know. But there's an estimated 2.5 million that are yet to be discovered. So, you know, you're a researcher. you're working on DNA sequencing. Like, you know, you've got a lifetime of work ahead of you. And during this work, you might uncover, you know, incredible cures for diseases,

such as cancer, diabetes, you name it. That research is happening right now. And obviously, if you're the holder to that research, that's going to effectively save millions of people for dying or potentially reduce or dependence on animal protein and all the kind of animal cruelty that goes with it, then you can actually turn a pretty hefty profit from that. So, hey, entrepreneurs, join in as well.

And so, yeah, that's what I find fascinating. and because the space is so young, you know, apart from the Stamets and the Sheldricks and the niche researchers here and there, you know, I would say there is, it's only been about 10 years that we've seen an increasing amount of businesses and startups that have been kind of launched in this space.

And there's, you know, if we take the fungi protein industry, for example, which is another form of alternative protein, super popular, big business already, you probably only have one commercial success in the microprotein industry versus about 100 startups that have sprouted over the last 10 years. So there is so much more to do. do to support and enable these entrepreneurs to have access to the right resources, the right investments in order to try and deliver on the promise that they've made to themselves and to some early stage investors.

And so MycoStorys is really trying to not only in the alternative protein space, but in any innovative application of fungi, trying to develop an ecosystem that will effectively better support the foundation of a thriving new sector. And to do this, I believe you need loads of connections. You need information to be flowing just as it flows through the wonderful mycelium network. and you need a lot of education and awareness building because regulators don't fully understand it. It's still complex. I mean, it's very complex. Investors, you know, they receive about 100 pitch texts a week.

So how do we make them already be a bit more accultured with the difference between you know, this or that fungi innovation or how does it fit in an existing for impact investment strategy? So that's what Michael Stories is trying to do. And we do this by connecting people, by showcasing the work of incredible projects and entrepreneurs in the space. And yeah, it's what's been driving me over the last 12 months. And there's, you know, a world, worlds to do and many more people to connect. I love it. It sounds to me like a story of abundance. You know, like there's an abundance of opportunity just waiting for us if we have the imagination to do it or if we have the courage to just push through the comfort zone a little bit.

There's a really cool story I want to share with you about my friend in Maui. Paula Powell, if you listen to this man, I love you and your team doing the micro remediation over there. There was a giant fire that took down Lahaina. And it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, when I say tragedy, I mean that in the most powerful sense. So many people lost their life, an entire town gone. But what people don't know after that fire is that a lot of the buildings there had lead in them. They had all these toxins. They were built a long time ago.

And so there was no over an EPA or there was no real, you know, sort of guidelines to build stuff. And so now they're sitting on like a, like a thousand pounds of ash that has toxins in there, getting ready to flow into the ocean during the rainy season. My friend Paul and his team, they have used these mycelium socks. You know, they use the mycelium in there. They pack them on his farm and they're using like a, you know, like the charred embers of trees to be a filter. And they have got like, they have the ability to create miles of this sock

with the mycelium being a natural filter and an incredible new way to filter water. But when it comes to government, hey, wait a minute, this isn't on the books. I don't know if we can do this. And like they're fighting this fight. It's like, what are you talking about? You don't know if you can do it. The whole community is behind it. We're building it now.

We're bringing in teams of people from all over to build this. And you guys don't have it on the books. You know what I mean? We can't release the money. What do you mean you can't release the money? But when I hear you speak about it and when I hear about innovative people coming together and finding ways to use this new technology to micro-remediate or have opportunity, It's happening right now, Marker, right in front of, right across the other island from me, man.

It's so impactful and beautiful to think about, man. I mean, Paul Stamets was working and actually patenting these microfiltration strategies in the 80s. So it's been 40 years that we've actually known we can do this. And, you know, he proved like 90% reduction in the presence of E. coli, the bacteria. And, you know, it's been out there, but there's, you know, I've mapped out the whole ecosystem of fungi innovation companies on microsports.com. And you will identify that there is so few companies that are actually investing in micro remediation practices, bio-remediation practices. Because fungi, you know, they like to be well surrounded. So they work really well with other types of bacteria.

yet. You know, it's not about, it's not all about the mushrooms. And, yeah, there's only, you know, I'd say less than five companies globally that are developing commercial projects leveraging fungi to depollute, remove toxins from our soils or, or our waterways. It's still, you know, it's, it's so small. How can it be? You know, so, you know, so, You know, let's get more, let's get more research, money, regulators to understand the power of this thing. And, yeah, let's kill this up, you know? Yeah, I do know. I'm excited for it. When we look at micro stories, and you've spoken a bit about how it's focused on harnessing the transformative power of mushrooms and positive impacts.

But maybe you could delve into the philosophical implications of using nature's resources to address ecological societal and economic challenges. Small question, George. You know how I do it, Mark? Another one, another one. Look, I think, actually, very recently I was working on an ecolage in West Papua in Indonesia. And the person who set up this project, when he arrived on the land, which is literally a little cove between a pre-poppoved.

between a pristine coral reef and a primary rainforest. Just setting the backdrop. Yeah, beautiful. Beautiful. I love it. So when he arrived, you know, it was just like, you know, a shack. And he told me this beautiful thing, which resonates the one of the founding principles of permaculture, which is, you know, he arrived, he sat and he watched the land, understand how it worked

and what it wanted. And it's kind of like based on that that he started understanding, you know, he sat, you know, he didn't meditate for six months. Obviously, he was on preparing other aspects of his project. But he, you know, he looked at, you know, the way the rainwater was flowing. He looked at, you know, where were certain types of plants growing better than others. And it's really by taking to nature, looking at nature and trying to nature and trying to work with it as opposed to impose, you know, the human dictatorship on it.

That's five years later, he has, you know, probably one of the most lush, rich permaculture garden, which is nestled between this primary rainforest. It's called Raja Ampat Ecology. Check it out. And, you know, I think that's a beautiful, and simple example of why we should really focus on bio-inspired solutions to rethink a lot of our supply chains. And there is a movement, growing movement, and I think it's not only gathering attention, but investment. And it obviously still needs one more, much more. You know, like I, I always, often get asked the question, oh, but you know, why, why can't we match the prices or the

characteristics of polystyrene packaging or plastics with mycelian-based composites? You know, the reality is in much of our developed economies, we spend the last 80 years with the brightest mine, hundreds of thousands of them, optimizing the shit of an non-buy bio-inspired economy. And so we actually need that amount of headspace to do the exact same thing focusing on bio-inspired solutions. And so there's still a lot of time. And obviously, I could say we don't have a lot of time,

but, you know, Mother Earth will be fine. Yeah. You know, we won't be, but she'll be fine. And so, yeah, I get very stimulated. when I speak to other people in the space that are, you know, similarly to me trying to either they're in the trenches, developing the companies themselves that are focusing on, you know, looking at algae, looking at the way animals migrate, for example,

inspire themselves and inspire, you know, there's a, there's a fantastic fungal analogy as well that, you know, uses where Tokyo researchers effectively looked at slime molds to design, even though they had designed the Tokyo Metro already, but they replicated a Tokyo map where they put like the largest areas of Tokyo as little oat flakes. And then they put a slime mold in the center of the agar plate that they were working with and you know within 24 hours this slime mold had recreated an almost perfect representation of what the Tokyo Metro looks like and you know this I think this is a fantastic analogy of like hey let's let's use nature let's inspire ourselves

with nature to think about regenerative design, think about urban planning, think about transforming our food system. And the great thing about it, and it's really what, you know, riles me up every time I get to speak or I see a mushroom on the forest floor is nature's super fascinating. And it's like, you know, it's,

Yeah. The more you learn about nature, about understanding ecosystems, the more every time you take a walk in the forest, on the beach, in the park, suddenly you're not just a tourist, but you're actually an active component of this ecosystem you're interacting with and you understand what you're seeing. And, you know, it's, yeah, I guess it's a little bit like going to China and speaking the language and understanding that when people are yelling to each other, it's not because they're rude or it's not because they're, you know, having a fight. But it's just, you know, they're actually having a very passionate conversation. But, you know, you don't understand it. So you're just like walking by and kind of missing the 90% of the sunken interesting aspect of

what is actually happening here and what's happening beneath our feet when we're walking in in that forest. So, yeah, let's get inspired because not only it's full of potential solutions, but it's actually super interesting as well. I love it. It speaks to the idea of awareness. I was reading an article a while back. I forgot where I read it in.

But there was a college that opened up, and they had opened up this beautiful new wing of campus and they had all the buildings done and the guy the concrete contractors like where do you want these sidewalks and the guy's like wait we're not going to pour the sidewalks like what are you talking about he's like we're not going to pour them until after the first semester and after the first semester there's all these walkways where the kids had gone you know and it's the same way the slime mold creates the network under there you know i love it so smart yeah it's it's interesting to think that when you say that it's an ecosystem i think taking mushrooms or just sitting in nature gives you the understanding that you're part of that ecosystem.

And you can watch the ecosystem unfold all around you, the same example you gave of that gentleman who was watching the land. So too can you watch nature unfold by your own habits in some ways. It's interesting to think about supply chains and the way. I often wonder if you know when you get a globe and there's all like the supply chains on that little globe and it shows you while they're going, it kind of seems like a neural network to me in a way. And wouldn't it be interesting? Of course we're going to build it like it's in our heads. Like that's how it's in our heads.

We're going to build it out there. It's crazy to think about the fractal nature of it. What do you think? Is that too crazy? No. I mean, I'm all with you, George. You know where to find me. I do know where to find you, man.

I'm excited you're here. Let me see if I can put out another giant question for you to solve the world's problems here. Hit me. Okay. Okay. the micro fungi play a crucial role in sustaining ecosystems and have vast potential for sustainable solutions how do you perceive the significance of fungi as architects of the natural world and agents of change in modern life we've covered that a little bit but agents of change in modern life architects yeah so

you know as i mentioned um we believe that the um the first plants on earth Earth were actually brought by symbiosis between algae and mushrooms, probably around 2.5 billion years ago where, you know, kind of morphing into lichens and lichens and mushrooms having an incredible capacity to develop enzymes that can break down solid rock. There's very few organic things that can actually do that, right? It's crazy. And so through that process and being able to adapt to a very high CO2 environment a long time ago, it enabled the apparition, you know, the first plants on our planet.

And then the story of evolution, keeps on unfolding and and mushroom obviously play a huge part because they help to decompose all of that all of that natural waste that sits on the on the forest floor and so I think already there there are you know it's a beautiful story of them being the architects of life and you know it's not scientifically proven, but I generally love to talk about Terence McKina's Stone Ape Theory, who, you know, I don't believe it's necessarily too far stretch. You know, I think if you've had a, if you've had a truly, you know, life-changing psychedelic trip, might it be on mushrooms, on psilocybin mushrooms on or other psychedelic substances,

you will remember something that happened to you and you'll remember it crystal clear and you will understand that something happened in your brain in that instant that if happened repeatedly over a number of years, I believe could have the potential of, you know, providing a bigger or a different type of awareness, especially in a brain where nothing much is happening, you know, if we're going back,

I think Terrence McKina was looking at 400,000 years ago. So, again, talk about the architects of life, human life as well. And, you know, even if it, even if his theory is correct or not, I think that psilocybin mushrooms have still played their role in the development of certain cultures and beliefs and has shaped communities in northern Africa, in Latin America, in Russia. and yeah, I mean, I think the fact of being able to, through this organic substance, having an elevator, an elevated state of being, will definitely push you to take the right nature-inspired solutions, because generally it connects you to that, not the opposite. So I think both in this kind of ethereal and spiritual way,

as much as, you know, they're very tangible, actually, you know, they have been adapting with the changing environments of the last 2.5 billions of years. I believe, you know, they are kind of the unsung heroes of the evolution of life on this planet. I love it. In so many ways, like when you talk about the ideas of McKenna or John Allegro is the sacred mushroom in the cross or one of my favorite, I really like to listen to or read the books of St. John of the Cross or Mercei Iliad and these people that these mystics that have this mystical experience.

And it's interesting that these incredible incidents that happen, like Marseillead talks about the terror before the sacred. And anybody who's found themselves at the height of a psychedelic trip knows what that is. Like, oh, like you're in the presence of something so beautiful. You want to pee your pants, but you're afraid of it, but it's so beautiful. You know what I mean? And it's like, that is a spiritual experience. That is getting to touch the hand of God.

That is the burning bush. That is where inspiration comes from. That is the ineffable. That is where, oh, my gosh, I'm part of this. giant organism. And when you can have that in you, you can really be inspired to create great arts of work and dig down deep and find out what's beautiful about relationships. And I can't see. Obviously, I don't have a PhD or something to back up why I think they played a giant part in the idea of spirituality. But I think anybody who's found themselves in the midst

of a second trip like that cannot deny that connection of like, you are part of this thing. And we start looking at the words like the, you know, in the Christian literature they have, like you eat the Eucharist, eat the flesh of God. I think a mushroom is pretty close to the flesh of God if you get the right one in there, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's always beautiful, man. Yeah. Yeah. Here's an idea about language.

Like we've spoken about it a little bit when Terrence McKenna and mushrooms and somehow language. What do you think is going on when if you're at a startup, you're trying to come up with a shared vision to create a product? If you're in a government, you're trying to come up with a shared vision for the people. And sometimes that mushroom allows you to have that shared vision. What's going on here with language and building, whether it's ecosystem or products? There's a similar vein there, right? Yeah. Trying to decipher which angle to take on this question.

Okay. Dial it down for me again? So in a heightened state of awareness, usually on mushrooms or fungi, I think you rub up against a situation that words can't describe. And I think that that is the same thing that happens when you come together with a startup. You have a vision, but you can't describe it. So I think that those two things are similar and they can come out the same way. Right. Like it's our job to bring together symbolically this vision and then create it in the community.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, the first thing that comes to my mind is also what I found the most transformative under psychedelics is the complete loss of ego. Yeah. And I think that's in itself the most powerful experience someone can have. Yeah. And it's transformative in so many ways. and generally it pushes you to be so much kinder to others and so much more relaxed about your own purpose on life.

And I think in some way, the start-upper who is trying to talk about his vision, who is stressing out about trying to get access to the right financing, talk to the right people, hire the right team. If he removes his ego out of the equation, he's probably going to be able to, I think, achieve his mission in a more honorable way. And, yeah, potentially a clearer mind. Yeah.

You know, being an entrepreneur myself, I always have this voice in my head that's, you know, the voice of doubt. You know, it's the entrepreneur's worst enemy. And it's always there. And a wise friend of mine once told me, you know, stop listening to your head. Just listen to your heart. And I think the head is the ego speaking. And you need to reduce that to as subtle a sound as you can to focus on whatever your mission is. And I think through that, you'll be able to communicate and articulate it in the clearest way possible.

And I'm not saying, you know, have a macrodose of mushrooms before you enter your investor meeting. But, you know, maybe once a year have like a very good trip that. You know, maybe mix this with some meditation. Yeah. And you'll be a better man, better woman for it. Yeah. There's something to be said about the perspective shift you get. And the ego, too.

Like when your ego is just hammering with you, you know, and you just, you seem, there seems to be a misalignment when the ego is running the show. But psychedelics tend to find a way to balance that. And what do you think about the idea between balance in psychedelics? It seems that it does provide us a balance. So like what is important? Maybe the reason I have all these health problems is because my life is out of balance, you know? Yeah.

I mean, it's re-centering yourself on what you really need in life. And, you know, and the things you need most, actually, they're fairly intangible. And they're about connecting with people and the flex. They're about building valuable supportive connections and obviously there's a few you know material things out there to support comfort but I think you know the the increasing rates of youth depression that you see in the West and in the East you know I think it's because there's been an imbalance on what you young people are focusing their time on trying to achieve or, yeah, trying to surround themselves with, you know, so, you know, social media is an amazing tool, but it's a tool. And once again, it should be, you know, it can be used in a great way or a quite harmful way.

connections, again, the over-exuberance of the ego on social media is a great example of, you know, just drop the ego and drop your social media account or connect with it five minutes or less every day. And you'll be better off for it. I mean, I, you know, again, you know, it goes back to what I was saying about tech companies is like, you know, Instagram is great. Great. But why does on my feed, I don't see anything from my friends, you know? It's like, it's like suggested this, promoted that. It's like, I don't want all this. So, so I don't, I just use it to basically put the word out there, showcase the heroes of the fungi innovation space. And then I'm out, you know, you ain't getting more of my attention.

I wonder if Facebook or one of these social media is left alone could be like, the slime mold on the agar plate of Tokyo. Like if we just put it up there and watch the way people connected, might that be the best way to set up like a social, obviously you might not make a ton of money at if you're not suggesting stuff. But we might be able to learn from that. I bet you we could even look back at some of the first Facebook models and be like, look at people connecting.

Isn't that wonderful? Like this is the people were really coming together to share stuff. You know, before it became, look at my salad or before it became, look at my hot fudge Sunday over here. It's interesting just to see how that plays out like that, man. it kind of blows my mind. Yeah, I think, unfortunately, the harm is done to some extent. So, like, we now have a preconceived notion of how you use a social network.

Yeah. If you launch a social network without the likes, it's just not going to do well. And it's because that's why we go to the social net. You know, because we're looking for a little endorphin shot. Yeah. And yeah, that's built. And I think, you know, there's a lot of people who are kind of tuning completely away from it. So again, it's kind of that bipolar, you know, you're either all in or all out.

You know, one of my favorite philosophers, Alan Watts, he's got this cool lectures that he talks about. And he talks about the difference between the east and the west. One of the funny things he says is in the West, if you go into the center of town and you tell people, I'm God, they might arrest you or take you to like a funny farm. But in the east, if you go to town, you say, listen, I'm God. They say, congratulations, you figured it out. And I'm wondering you as a builder, as someone who has kind of bridged that gap and move in between these two different cultures, how do you use what you've learned in these different cultures to build and work in some of these communities that you're going to?

Yeah. So again, going back to something I said earlier, I truly believe that in every action I take developing micro stories, reaching out to someone, deciding if I want to speak or showcase that person, that project or not, it's always like, okay, you know, am I adding value? You know, if I'm sharing knowledge, am I actually? sharing knowledge that adds value or am I looking for attention? And then I'm actually taking something from you instead of giving something to you. And I think Yuval Noah Harari, the writer of Sapiens, said the 20th century was the year, was the century where knowledge was power. The 21st century, it's all about clarity.

do you have the capacity to sift through that giant pool of knowledge? Because actually, knowledge is not power in the 21st century. Knowledge is mind-numbing. Knowledge is, it's blinding. And so do you have the time, the headspace, to be able to discern and focus on the right knowledge what adds value. And you'll see in everything that I might have published on Mycostories.com,

there's always a work of research. There's always a certain intention which goes beyond, you know, going for the viral video because I know that's what's going to drive engagement. And sure, I need to, I guess, sacrifice a little bit of that growth. but again it's kind of like the guiding principle things you don't want to stray away from and so I guess it's what's driving a lot of the interactions that I that I meet as well I try and meet with people that I feel at least you know you easily get a sense of someone's righteousness or someone's energy after even exchanging a few emails or after 20 second on the call like you're

like, okay, I think that's a good egg. And yeah, I think that's, I'm really using, I guess, the experience of having worked in a variety of places, traveled in a number of countries, both in, you know, big business and tiny microfinance NGOs in Uganda, you know, so, and all this. helps to, you know, bring a certain social wisdom that I hope I can leverage for the greater good of the people who are engaging with micro stories. Yeah, I'm excited for it. I really think that we find ourselves on the forefront of change right now.

Sometimes I look at the, there's a great book called The Fourth Turning. And in that book, they speak about the different generations and how the generations affect the following generation. And, you know, it's interesting to see that a lot of the people that are in leadership positions are moving on to the next level, whatever that level is, you know. And the ideas are being handed down on somewhat, and I think with my co-stories and a lot of these new technologies that are being ready to be born, there's a real opportunity to change the future for a long period of time. Are you positive on that change? Do you see that forefront of change as well? Or how do you see that shaping up? Yeah.

I mean, first of all, I love the idea of slightly flatter organizational structures where everyone has more agency. You know, if you are, if employees were all the primary stakeholders and the primary shareholders of their company, I can tell you, companies wouldn't be managed the way they're managed. And the best example is being in Japan, this is the Japanese kaisen, the organizational structure where they might not be the most productive in this year, but they're planning for the next 10 years. Great.

And so that, you know, some people debate about, you know, whether it increases, it decreases, it decreases productivity to, to operate like this. But, you know, it's an interesting Eastern, Eastern capitalism, if you may. And so, yeah, so I believe in, you know, giving more ownership to the employees of a company, having flatter. organizational structures. And this will inherently lead to, I think, better ways of doing business. And through these better ways of doing business, hopefully you have more fulfilled employees. You have a community that takes a bigger role in the strategic decision making of the

higher echelons of the company. Yeah. And then, yeah, and then hopefully you also have a variety of third-party organizations that are network builders like micro stories that are, you know, helping to also lay the foundations for these companies to thrive through, you know, broader awareness, access to contacts and the investments that these companies might need to succeed. when you put impact at the same level of profit, some investors might see this as slower return on their investment. And so we need to try and strike a balance where, sure, in your portfolio, you do have a lot of pure for-profit, it, but maybe dial that needle up on the impact a bit more.

You know, like, and actually, if you have a life that focuses on fulfillment through intangible means, maybe you don't need to have 10% and you're happy with seven, you know. But that's not the way, you know, most investment strategies work today. And, you know, I'm sure a lot of investors won't want to talk to me after, after, saying this, but, you know, it's how I believe. There's a lot of people out there who believe the same way. And I think it's the only way we're really going to change things, stop looking at our belly buttons and move forward without keeping on stepping on our toes.

And that's it for the metaphors for today. I love it, man. It's, you know, maybe we just need to read. Maybe people just need to redefine what investment means. Maybe investment is more than a monetary return. Maybe investment is having a better future for our kids or getting to see an ecosystem evolve and be part of that. Like now we're talking about a real legacy, putting something in place that will sustain

someone for a lifetime. That's a legacy, man. The yacht, I'm sure, is awesome. I don't know, but it seems like a yacht might be pretty awesome to have, but might it be better to have stories told about you for generations about how you started something like that. That sounds like a little bit better legacy to me, right? What do you think about when you think about legacy?

You know what? I try not to think about it because I think it's, I think it's potentially parasitic to think too much about your legacy, you know? I try to focus on what I do in the very, you know, in my day, am I doing something that feels right or wrong? And then if through that I have a great legacy, then great. I do think probably at least once a week at myself and the rocking chair when I'm 90 years old. And that's kind of what I think.

And I'm like, okay, are you, you know, no regrets? Are you proud of what you've done with all that time on this planet? And, you know, that's it. Yeah, I love that. Sometimes I speak to a lot of different people that find themselves, you know, investigating the world of mental illness or mental wellness and mushrooms in the medical container. It's interesting to see how that might be helping us solve problems with addictions. Do you have any thoughts on the idea of psilocybin in this medical container?

Silocybin in the medical. So you mean psilocybin? I've been in clinical conditions for super... Yeah, versus maybe the traditional model. Yeah, absolutely. I'm all for it. To be fair, I probably have more examples of people who have been unable to take the right dose and just gone way too much and just be like, oh, this is not for me. And that not only with psychedelics, but with cancer.

cannabis as well. Yeah. And so I believe that, you know, if we want to give a new reputation to psychedelics and to mushrooms and to their healing capacities, it needs to come from a, you know, a medical background. And I think, you know, think of my mother directly, you know, who's got some depression issues. Like, you know, she's now considering it because, you know, I've been telling her, now it's medical research, you know, it's getting approved in this state and that country. And only this will kind of give her the trust that's, okay, I'll give it a shot.

And because it's going to be in a clinical context, hopefully not entirely for profit. So, you know, there might need to be some, I know the U.S. hates that, but we might need to regulate this a little bit, you know, put a little health care government intervention here. You know, that's, that is what is going to help my mother and the many other who suffer from depression or other mental health diseases. and if you only stay on the spiritual, you know, the way mushrooms have been revert to and embraced by the fringes of society, I think you're unfortunately going to prevent a lot of people who could benefit from it if it was a bit more institutionalized, but who still have the fear of like, oh, I don't want the magic.

I can't handle the magic. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. There's a saying that says, when the student is ready, the teacher will appear. And maybe that teacher for everybody is different, right? Maybe that teacher is in a clinical setting for some students.

And maybe that teacher is in a ceremonial setting for some students in different communities. Yeah. What do you think so far has been the best part about starting micro stories? The best part about micro stories has been one, my own deeper understanding of ecosystems and the real natural ones. I don't have a scientific background, so I'm just reading heaps on how a forest works and how your intestine works and how your intestine works. And I think that's been really fascinating, delving in the world of the micro. Yeah.

You know, for someone who's never been a researcher or assigned a biologist, like, there is a world on my arm. So I really enjoyed that. And then it's, you know, the sheer amount of incredible conversations and meetups that I've had the pleasure of doing. and what that has brought me and seeing that, you know, again, through ancient organic living being, people all over the world reunite and celebrate it and innovate with it. And, you know, I get contacted by people who are developing mushroom farms in Nigeria, who are developing microdosing supplements in Taiwan, developing alternative mushroom-based leather in Mexico.

I mean, it's, you know, and it's happening all over. So, you know, but they've been unsung for way too long. So I'm here to, you know, praise them as much as I can and help their greater, greater development in our society. I love it. There's something to be said about shining light on the positive aspects of community in the way that helps us grow, maybe not only grow, but gives us a model to look at.

It seems like there's so much goodness out there. I didn't even know about these leather farms in Mexico or the blow up in Nigeria. It's interesting. Like what? So we've got the leather farms in Mexico. What are some other unique ideas that you've heard about recently since you've begun on this pathway? Yeah.

There's some really interesting work being done in the University of Northampton, the University of Bristol as well in the UK, where Dr. Andrew Adamaski, who works at the unconventional. conventional computing lab. He's working on effectively using fungi to replace motherboards for computers. So effectively trying to use the conductive characteristics of certain fungi to yeah, try and again not necessarily replace but potentially augment or create a new type of computing engine. So that's one example. There's many more of them. You can all check them out, read them on your on your bedtime on Mycosories.com on socials and on the web.

It's fascinating to me. I'm so stoked on your time, man. And I really love talking to you. And I hope everybody listening to this goes and checks out Michael's stories because it's like an encyclopedia of awesomeness where you can go in there and find what, hey, I like artists. I'm going to go look at Dennis Walker. I'm going to go look at this guy over here. I'm going to go look at this. You know, so I think it's a really great foundation for people to go and reach out to you. And I'm thankful.

And I know a lot of people in this community are thankful for having someone shine a light on all the things that are happening. And I think the more we work together, all of us in this community, the more we can promise. a better tomorrow for the next generation. There's a lot of promise out there, man. And everybody can be part of it, right? Anybody who has an idea can be part of the team. And it's got to go over to Michael's stories and start finding their way through there. Does that sound accurate?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you mentioned Dennis Walker, a good friend of mine. So shout out to him. Go check out, Michael Bruner as well. Great compliment the content I've been putting online. How funny. That guy, I probably cried a hundred times watching that guy. It's like everyone is the best one.

Everyone gets better. I don't know how he does it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's epic. Well, it was amazing speaking to you, George. Really appreciate it. And let's reconnect for a round two in the next couple of months or years, man. Guaranteed in the next few months.

And if you find yourself out here, I'll reach out to you. But before I let you go, though, where is the best place people can find you? Can you give the name of the site again? And what do you got coming up? Yeah, so MycoStories.com. Myco Stories on LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok, and reach out to me on LinkedIn is probably the best. Mark Violo. And what's next?

Nine more months of travel and working on some cool projects along the way and trying to grind this all down for all the funga enthusiasts across the across the globe. All right. Well, hang on briefly afterwards. I'll talk to you real briefly afterwards. But ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for your time today. I hope you have a beautiful day. I hope the sun is shining. And I hope that you know something great's about to happen to you. Trust me, it is. That's all we got for today. Aloha. All right.