TrueLife - Gary Cordery - On Corruption in Hawaii

Episode Date: April 25, 2022

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Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark. fumbling, furious through ruins

maze, lights my war cry Born from the blaze. The poem is Angels with Rifles. The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Kodak Serafini. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the True Life podcast. We're going to talk about corruption today. For my listeners who don't know, Gary,

would you be so kind as to introduce yourself, please? George, thank you. And good morning. And good morning to your listeners as well. It is a beautiful day in Honolulu. So, and actually I'm in Kailu, so it's even more beautiful here. But my name is Gary Kordery, George. You know, it's amazing the unique pronunciation of that name. Nevertheless, Gary Kordery, glad to be with you this morning. George is a blessing to be with you. So thank you. Very nice. I'm thankful as well. I wanted to, I know you have limited time today and we're thankful that you're here. with us. I wanted to talk to you about something that has been plaguing not only our nation, but the state of Hawaii. And it's this idea of corruption. Most people understand corruption as a form of dishonesty that is a crime or offense that can have real ramifications. And there is a lot of it throughout our nation. Maybe it's the time. Maybe it's the state we're in. But can you

speak to your idea of what corruption is and what you have seen examples of in Hawaii? George, certainly corruption is not new. Corruption is a part of the human condition. You know, corruption, when I think about it, I think of corruption in terms of favor. People seek curry with those who they think have influence or power. And so they come to them and make offers and suggestions and recommendations and potential outcomes and long-term benefits and they offer strategies and we could call them bribes. You can call them corruption. You can call it pay to play. There's a number of terms. They're synonymous with bad behavior. But essentially, the idea that a citizen or a lobbyist or a relative or a business person, whether it's

blue collar or white collar they come to a legislator or a political leader and they offer them gifts or or promises for benefits if they'll enact policies or or direct uh circumstances for those kinds of things that would be favorable to those who bring in bringing uh the corruption bringing bringing bringing essentially a bribe. So it's in Hawaii, it is rampant. It's rampant everywhere. But in Hawaii, it's become so commonplace. You know, we call it pay to play here, but everybody doesn't want to get really about the word. We lose the power of the distinction because we don't use the actual words, bribery, corruption, lawlessness. These are the kinds of words that are actually related to corruption and how it's implemented. And when we start using those kinds of words,

it'll bring some sobriety. And this kind of behavior should stop. It happens everywhere in every aspect of our government. It happens in permitting. It happens in contracting. It happens in zoning. It happens in all forms of legislation. There's the pay to play piece. So if you want to get something done in Hawaii, this is a word on the street. You want to get something done in Hawaii, then bring a gift. Bring a gift. Bring a promise and you can get it done. Yeah, it's, it is rampant here. I often wonder, let me ask you, it seems to me, once you read, and you as a builder and someone who has owned their company, I'm sure that you have found yourself in positions where, hey, I'm not sure if I can trust this person. Maybe be better to trust my kid or, hey, I don't know these people. And so sometimes it seems to me that corruption, especially in Hawaii is, is something, some sort of idea of trust, even though it undermines the very trust of the people. Let's say you find you find, yourself in the governor's seat and you're surrounded by people that you feel you might not be able to trust. What would stop you from turning to a family member or accepting a gift? You know, what is it that you have that would allow you to be uncorruptible? Well, uncorruptible. You know, corruption. Corruption is something actually comes on slowly. I don't think a person actually arrives at a position fully corrupt.

You know, they look at the system. In politics, you know, it starts at the county seat level and then you make, maybe make a legislative seat and then you rise within the legislative branch. Maybe you make president of the Senate or something along the Congress. That process, there's a bit of grooming going along and there's been an education of how to actually get things done. And if you don't play along with the system, you basically get set on the sidelines. You know, you don't get to participate.

Your voice is not heard. And so the method and the, the, the method and the, you know, the system. the mentality of corruption and the way to get things done is to negotiate your conscience away. And the way to not do that is just don't start. You know, over the years, there has been many opportunities to bend the rules, to do, you know, to take the shortcut that you might benefit, that somebody else might benefit from your decisions. I just don't go there. You know, you have to actually draw the line in the very smallest way.

What you do, what you do in the quietness of your home and how you behave there, it will be reflected in what you do in the public square. So you just don't go though. I've never joined all these organizations. You know, there's tons of organizations to join, and they're not bad. I just don't find it personally attractive to me because I don't want to be beholden to anybody. So when I come into office, I'm not beholding to anybody. I'm a contractor. I'm not a politician. So I haven't made these agreements. I don't have these policies in place. I don't have this strategy working within me or in my relationships. And so the way to manage that is just don't start. You know, just don't do it. If somebody wants to do that, no, thank you. We can talk about something

else. We cannot talk about that. And when it comes up, when it comes up in the conversation, you just must address it right there. Don't shrink back. Don't hold back. Just allude to what exactly are you saying? Because I'm not about that. So, you know, I really think that it's just nip it in the bud when it comes small, then deal with it. And you'll get a reputation. You don't go, into this office and expect to get anything. You don't bring corruption into this office. And if those around, you start to do it, you deal with it. You deal with it honestly. You do it up front. You have honest conversations and there's consequences. So that's the way you deal with. That's life. If you and I want to have a relationship and it wants to be pure and honest and honorable,

then you will call me on, call me when I'm stepping out of bounds and I will do the same for you. Yeah, I agree. And to me, it's it's so foul on so many levels because it seems to me the people that go into relationships wanting something, they are the same people that, you know,

they have corrupt relationships with their family, with their kids, with their wives. And that's probably why we live in the society we live in. Not only that, what do you think the consequences for corruption should be if someone were to get caught? Obviously, there's different levels,

but what kind of consequences? Could there be for corruption? Well, you know, most people, I shouldn't say that. The way I relate to it is, is, you know, there's consequences for bad behavior. There's natural consequences and there's applied consequences. You know, when your kids are playing out in the ear, you tell them, don't play and don't run there, and they fall and scrape their knee, that's natural consequences. But when somebody does something purposefully, then there's applied consequences. So that's why we have the law for it.

The corruption piece is missing our society is the application of law to white collar crime. That's what corruption is. The people that lose, the people that pay the price for corruption are not those who are being corrupted or actually offering the bribe. It's the citizens. And the citizens have a right for righteous government. They have a right for lawful government to adjudicate and to maintain, you know, accountable relationships so that the people prosper.

And when people don't prosper, there should be consequences. these people must be prosecuted. I can, you know, in our administration, we are going to have a task force that looks at corruption, and we're not going to hold back when there's, when there, and there'll be opportunities for people to call in, you know, and let them, let their voice be heard. And it'll be, it'll be, it'll be censored, but it will be followed up. I don't mean by censored. It'll be held in private, you know, this whistleblower idea.

It used to be held in high esteem. So there should be an avenue for people to go, listen, this is what's going on in my department. I hear it. I do hear it from people. You know, this is what they're doing. This is why we can't get anything done. Those people must be held to account. And I can tell you, when you start doing that in government, it will stop.

People need to know that there's consequences. And when they do know that, and then there's actual prosecution, and there's actual jail term or fines or whatever is required, first of all, whoever benefits from corruption, from corruption, whatever the benefit was must be taken away, period. They lose it. And it gets offered back to however it can be. rightfully discerned, but it should be taken away.

Yeah, I agree 100%. It's amazing to think what could be done if we work together. It's amazing to think what could be done if the people in positions of authority weren't utilizing some quid pro quo. Another issue when it comes to corruption that I see is, here in Hawaii, we have so many different cultures. We have so many different people from East Asia and South America and all over the United States.

with different countries comes different cultures. And with different cultures comes different business practices. And so we see the world differently. I've had some friends that did a lot of work in China. And in these countries, it's a different model. And some of the model there is to bring about, hey, here's a gift to see this person and stuff like that. How could you, how is it possible to communicate different values of what it means in the workplace across. different cultures.

Well, it's very true. You know, I was just at a dinner last night. We were talking to a couple who has many relationships in East Asia. And we'd had this very conversation. How is it that how certain people come into Hawaii and they start projects and they and they avert the law. They don't pay their taxes. They pay cash to everything.

And quite frankly, and where they grew up and where they come from, that's business as usual. That's part of the problem and the breakdown of the, of cultures. being separate. When cultures and people come here, they should assimilate into American values. They shouldn't use their unique gift of who they are, you know, whatever culture, but they should come and understand that America is a law based on law, a country based on law, based on righteousness, and that those values, they must understand and learn those values, in particular to become a citizen. So if you're going to become a citizen here and you're going to participate in society here in America, you should abide by American law and a very justice system. So when people come,

and they want to bring, they want to bring gifts. You know, it's a fine line. I got to tell you, you know, how do you, somebody brings you a box of candy. What do you, you know, you're going to tell them. Oh, no, you can't bring me a box of candy. We have, these are, these are election laws. These are gift laws.

You know, we're supposed to, you know, you're supposed to let everybody know, everything that's done. So when does friendship, where does that draw the line? I think people know. People know inherently when somebody's trying to buy your influence. That people turn their, turn a blind eye when they know it's going on is the problem. people's consciences must function. You know that you shouldn't get this gift.

Why are you getting this gift? You know, so it's one thing if you go stay in somebody's house and you're there for a week and you want to leave and you want to offer them a thank you a nice card and a box of chocolates as a gift, as a show of appreciation for their kindness to you. It's another thing to bring them, you know, tickets to the basketball game and you don't even know them when you're going to have breakfast. there's a completely different intention there. And so people have to know that their conscience must work. I don't know. You know, I don't know how to stop that because that's part of humanity. It's been going on forever.

And I don't know that that necessarily goes away. I just know that people that are doing that for a purpose to receive something, this must stop. Yeah, I agree. You know, especially here in Hawaii, I think that we're really between a rock and a hard place when we look at corruption and resources. And two of those main resources that I see are, our water, our housing out as a package delivery driver,

you know, I see houses go up for sale and then an all cash offer come in. And then these houses just stay vacant. There's so, it seems to me that there's so many, so much foreign investment that comes in and just bids up the housing prices and the house just sit there. Is there something that we could do?

I think that has to also affect affordable houses. When you're just driving houses up as a speculative asset, that makes it impossible for a young family that you have with your kids and then I'm going to have soon. It's impossible for these kids to even have a chance here. Do you have any ideas about how that could be worked on or potentially made better? Yeah, there's, you know, there's numerous ways. There's investment properties, you know, there's people. There's some tension there. There's the right for people to be to private ownership, to buy and sell.

That's a part of liberty. that's a part of the American dream. That's a part of capitalism. All those things I love and appreciate about our country. The problem is when you have corporations and individuals coming and buying up ground and land and properties and homes that are reverting the laws. So, you know, we do have these laws on the books that, you know,

there's their tax codes and these kinds of things that are supposed to be applied to people and doing these investment properties. I don't know exactly how to stop the idea. that somebody comes in with a cash offer. It makes it almost impossible for a young family here. Here locally, you know, the families hooy up. They gather enough, gather, gather enough money together for a down payment.

They make a proposal on the house, but it has strings, they have to get qualified, and then somebody comes in with a cash offer that's just as good or more. What is the homeowner to do? They're gonna evaluate closing date, they're gonna evaluate it, and then they say, I'll take the cash offer.

Of course they're gonna take the cash offer. The question is, why is the cash offer so high? is it just supply and demand? It is not just supply and demand. The cost of housing is driven by lots of forces. You know, so we have to, there's lots of opportunities to change the supply and demand equation. We have to work through DLNR,

we have to change the way leases are ran, where what's set aside, creating more ground to more development, change the zoning rules, change, you know, R7, R5, R10, change all of these kinds of rules. so and all these regulations so that more capacity can be made so can be built and then the cost of housing and how to do how to do that you know those so all of these components they're driving up the cost of housing i don't think i don't know how you possibly in a free society set aside somebody coming

and saying i'll i'll give you a cash offer i don't know how you do that we change you're talking about changing society you're talking about going away from from a capitalist mentality where where a person is free they sell their house somewhere they have they've done well they've done well they've have managed their resources. They have the capacity to do this. That's one thing. On the other hand, these these townhomes that are being built in Kaka Aco, these million dollar, these two million dollar condominiums, how did they get that ground? What kind of tax incentives were given? How are building permits issued and process? Those kinds of loopholes can be changed. And a lot of those properties sit down there empty. Yeah. I hear these stories that they pay people to go and turn

the lights on and off in these buildings. just so that they appear to be sold out. But they're not. They're investment properties. They're tax issues. People are riding these properties off. And those kinds of issues can be looked at. Yeah.

I know firsthand, I've delivered to some of these buildings and I'll talk to the security guard down there. And I'll be like, wow, this is amazing. Who's buying all these? And he's like, I have no idea. A lot of them are empty. You know, but it doesn't look that way. It's fascinating in its own right. And I,

it's a fascinating it's a fascinating idea you know to think about what about the idea of water in Hawaii I've heard you talk about you know how water's being moved from here and there and there's different you know corruption there happening what can you tell us about

water rights in Hawaii well you know water rights in Hawaii you know we're on an island you know so we don't we don't have massive mountain ranges feeding us snowpack right We did get our aquifers, you know, deep, deep aquifers under the ground for our water, water resources in Hawaii. And the struggle for water in Honolulu, and I'm sure it's on the other islands as well, is not new. You know, there was lawsuits many years ago, the Waioli water

from the windward side, there was water rights lawsuits, which ultimately the windward side won the lawsuit. The water was being diverted from the wells on the windward side for development on the west side. And in the interim time, you know, wells are being tap throughout Central Oahu because of ground water treatment and poison water. So, you know, the solution is new water sources. You know, we're surrounded by water. Why in Hawaii, we don't, why hasn't any been forward enough thinking to say we should have a desalienization plant here?

There's 185,000 of these plants operating worldwide right now. They're scalable. There's no reason why we already have the deep water. We already has barber's point. I'm suggesting and we'll promote that we already start from the very beginning, a legitimate study to bring desalienization to Honolulu and put it at Barber's Point. These are being done in the U.S. mainland. They're not like just, there's one recently built in San Diego.

So for about $7,800 million, we can have a full-blown desalinization plant that will bring water back to the west side. Now, what would that do? That would release the burden across the island. The west side is dry. Everybody knows it's dry. But if you could give the windward water back to the windward farmer and the windward communities, then they could have an entire industry start again. They could have sustainable produce and collo and, you know, the things that they need, farmers that need. But we need sustainable water.

So if we actually did a desalilatization plant there, and these are scalable, they could be done on all of the islands. And there's also water on the other islands that people aren't tapping in the big island. And they know that there's at about 3,000 feet, there's a massive aquifer that nobody knows about it. It's been tapped. There's 10,000 PSI at about 3,000 feet on the Big Island. It's available. It's there. And we've yet to talk about it as a society, as a community, as a state.

The Big Island, Maui, Lanai, these areas are desperate need of water year in and year out. So that we don't have desalconization on all these islands, it's just short-sighted thinking. We need long-term solutions for current problems. And they're available. We don't have to reinvent the wheel. These facilities are out there and they should be utilized. Yeah, it's a great, that's really well put. And it seems too when we have scarcity of resources,

the corruption tends to, you know, multiply. So that can also be a factor in bringing down corruption. Well, corruption's on two sides. Corruption is not just open the door so that I can do something. Corruption has also shut the doors so I can maintain something. So when you see all of these industries being regulated, you have to ask, hmm, how come this is being regulated? Who's behind the regulation?

As an example, the super ferry, why did the super ferry have such pushback? Why did it have so much lobbyists against the super ferry, the rental car industry, the airline industry, the shipping industries, these were all industries were threatened. Their bottom lines were threatened by the super ferry. So they build a coalition to stand against the super ferry. You see the same thing happening in all kinds of industries. You know, border water supply doesn't want new development of water. Why?

It affects their revenue stream. Why isn't Honolulu covered with solar? I'm literally, why doesn't every house stop have solar on it in Hawaii? Why? Because it threatens Hickko's income stream. So these restraints go in place. The systems become so expensive. You talk about affordable housing.

Well, let's put code mandated solar and water heater on a house. I understand that your price of your house just went up $80,000. This is exactly what's going on. So these are corruptions, but they're not corruptions to open doors. There's corruption to close doors. You see it in the B&B industry now, the Airbnb, right? Who's behind closing the doors for Airbnb and B&B? Should there be restraints?

Of course there should. But they should be based on things like this. there parking available? Is there the infrastructure there to support it? So if it's only, if it was meant for 10 days and you have the cars there for 10 days, what's the difference between 90 days? Aren't they the same cars? They're the same. So what is the restraint about? This is the hotel industry, putting, putting regulations in place to constrain local families who need a place to live, who want to generate incomes. So, so corrupt, because, um, construct, uh, corruption is not just open the doors, it's closed the doors. And you see it. You can look

carefully through the way regulations are applied in our state. It's everywhere. Would you say that a lot of these industries, whether they're opening the door, whether it's somebody offering a company to come in and start something, or whether it's a lobbyist trying to help out the hotels, is this is this all transactions that could theoretically be the pay to play schemes that we're seeing today does that kind of make sense it does make sense i i think they're one of the same yeah i think it's how you define the terms right right it's it's manipulating the system for gain instead of government government should be in the business of getting out of the way of people's lives government should be bringing order and equity into the marketplace so that the citizen who has little has as much access

and hopes to fulfill his dreams as of the affluent. It doesn't mean that one should be preferred or the other. It means they should be treated equally. The same kind of, same thing. Mr. Obama is building this massive place in Lamanalo. Nobody else gets a seawall. How come nobody else gets a permit for a seawall, but he gets a seawall? How come when you leave,

either side of his home, the road is paved beautifully, brand new, but you go either side of his home, it's pothole city. From Waimanalo to Kailua, from Waimanalo to Hawaii Kai. How come his stretch? What is this? Is this not corruption? This is corruption. The people pay their taxes for all the roads to be paved.

Then how come only his road gets paved? I'm just curious. So when you think about corruption, it's not, it's in services. It's in goods and services. It's in access to services. It's in not having and having. It's pay to play. These are just semantics.

And, you know, building permits, how come certain people get building permits? Others don't. How come zoning in certain areas are restrained in other areas they're changed? You know, recently we have, you know, we have set aside Ag 1 properties. These grounds are designated. They're identified as ag properties. How come certain properties get rezoned and all of a sudden you have solar on them? What happened to the decision to maintain ag in Hawaii?

is this corruption? I don't know. I can't say specifically is it corruption, but I'm saying that the idea of pay to play to offer something to get something

is rampant in our state. And what like, you know, I agree that the first way, the first thing everybody needs to do is identify the problem. That's how you figure out

what you need to solve. What are some other solutions? Like it seems so entrenched and it seems like it's just systematic. What is a, do you have a pathway laid out? And what are some things we can do to, to get around this or at least make it transparent? What are some things we can do to focus on this and make it better? Well, first of all, how about ethics and government? Let's start with that.

A novel idea. How come the governor nominates and appoints the attorney general? How come the courts and the governor through that combination appoints the Ethics Commission? How is it that the Ethics Commission is supposed to oversee the governor and the other departments in our legislative branch? The Ethics Commission, the Attorney General, should be voted on by the people. They should be representative from all the islands. Each island should have a representative to sit on the Ethics Commission. They should be nonpartisan. and they don't have to be, they don't have to be ex-politicians.

You can look at other states. When you look up with the makeup of ethics commissions and other states, it's drastically different than the one we have in Hawaii. First of all, it's completely independent from government. So the idea that we have an ethics commission, a judicial branch, and the attorney general, all linked directly to the governor's office is inherent. It's just begging for corruption.

You know, so this is, so start there. Start with honest, honest ethics and then start with accountability. When an ethics commission finds something that's out of order, that's wrong, it's dishonest, that's unlawful, it must be prosecuted. If it starts at the top, it will find its way down and it will change the culture of corruption. Without starting there, you can talk about corruption as long as you want. until we have an attorney general that is elected by the people and the attorney general is mandated to uphold the laws and the state constitution,

we will always have a corruption problem because currently the attorney general, he's at the service of the governor. You just have to think about that. And that should not be that way. It should be independent. Yeah, it seems like we found ourselves in some sort of new feudalistic society where the king is up here and he's got the sheriff of Nottingham over here.

The governor here in Hawaii. The governor also appoints the sheriff. You know, people don't realize this on almost every other state, the sheriff's elected by the people, not in Hawaii. Why is that? Why wouldn't the sheriff be independent from the governor? So this consolidation of power, I don't know how this come up, but the governor in Hawaii has more power. than any other governor in the union. So one of the ways to start disarming this is start looking at the governor's power. I would say as governor, I haven't studied this yet, George, but I would say as governor, we're going to depower.

That's not a word. How do that? How do we say that? We're going to take the power away from the governor. And I'm not sure exactly how to that, but I'm telling you, in me, it lives that way that the power should be inherent in the people, not in the elected officer. So as a point as a way of the office of governor to serve the people would be to give the power back to the people to put in those positions, those positions of authority by the people and for the people. And so that's just a foundational and fundamental change that needs to happen.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. That's a I think that that is the crux of the problem. Like they, I know tons of guys that fish and they always tell me, hey, George, the fish rots from the head down. And people don't have a chance. We don't have a chance. If we don't have people in positions of authority that care or want to make a difference, then what chance do the least among us have? So, well, I want to be mindful of your time, Gary.

I know you got some of the things going on. And I think that's a great spot to end it. I mean, I think we've covered quite a bit there. And I want people to really understand that, you know, we've talked about ideas, but more than that, we've talked about solutions. And I think your solution of changing government from the heads up is the place to start. What else? Is anything you want to leave us with?

Or can you tell us where your rallies are going to be or where can people find you? Well, actually, I want to go back just for a moment about government. Yeah, please. Structured. You know, people may or may not know this. But the governor, he nominates 192 positions in our government, right? All of the agencies, Department of Health, Department of Education, DLNR, the Port Authority, Department of Transportation, Department of Tourism,

192 directors and deputy directors are directly appointed by the governor. Now, some of those are confirmed by the Senate, fair enough. But the idea that people don't have access to their government is that that's the breakdown. If these positions that were nominated by the governor were actually elected, would transform the way that people interact with government. I can tell you, the way that it's structured now, when we nominate and these people come in, we will govern through the departments. The deputy directors within these departments, whether it's any of the ones that I name,

the people will have access to their governor there. Their government will be there. They will no longer have to appeal to the legislative branch. We will create access for the people to come into the department. So if you have an issue with land, you have an issue with the parks department, you have an issue with water, the coastline, you bring your issue to a director within DLNR. And we start looking at the problem at that level. and bring resolution at that level rather than going back to looking to codify your change in law.

So we'll create access for the people at the deputy director's level. We'll make these people accessible for the people who live here. Those agencies should be at the will and should be accessible to the people. So that is where the most instrumental and significant change will happen, that people have access to their governor, government through these, through these departments. In closing, I would just say, George, is a blessing to be on. It's been a, it's been quite a run. I was up until, you know, late last night at an event and up early this morning with you,

I feel like, wow, I need more coffee. But I'm super grateful. I'm actually headed off to Mililani now for a meeting. We'll have a prep. We'll be actually with the UH student body tomorrow, looking at the agenda 2050 and what that looks like for our state is a very complex model. It needs a lot of careful consideration. We'll have a conversation with them tomorrow.

We have lots of events coming up. You go to our website, Gary Cordery for governor.com. You can look at our calendar there. You can volunteer there. You can actually donate there if you want to help our campaign participate with us. You can hit the donate button there. You know, our campaign is really taking off. we're having a great deal of success in communicating new ideas,

thoughtful principles, integrity, honesty, and access for the people. This campaign is really about the people coming back into their government, having access into the goods and services that they pay their taxes for. This is a concept, but it shouldn't be a concept. It should be a reality. So, George, you would take the time to have this conversation. I'm very grateful. Thankful for you and hope you have a fantastic day. Absolutely. And you guys heard it there. Check out the campaign, donate. We need good people to volunteer and help out in any way you can. If we want to make changes, we all got to pitch in. So thank you, Gary. And we'll talk again soon.

All right. I hope you have a great day. I'm a mahalo. Thank you. All right. All right. Bye.