TrueLife - Håkon - The Cost of Silence

Episode Date: September 6, 2024

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/Today’s guest is a beacon of resilience and a warrior of the soul. Håkon Rian Mancient has faced the darkest corners of human existence, surviving nine attempts to end his own life. With a profound understanding of despair, he has transformed his pain into purpose, guiding others through their most harrowing battles. From living in his car to becoming an advocate for holistic healing, Håkon challenges the systems that profit from our suffering and teaches us how to reclaim our light in a world too often shrouded in darkness. He is a living testament to the power of love, patience, and unwavering responsibility for one’s own life. Prepare to be moved and inspired by a story of survival, hope, and the relentless pursuit of happiness.https://linktr.ee/mancient?utm_source=linktree_profile_share&ltsid=688e9e88-8c19-4292-9acf-14ba07340297https://www.linkedin.com/in/mancient One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark, fumbling, fear. Fearers through ruins maze lights my war cry born from the blaze.

The poem is Angels with Rifles. The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Serafini. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the True Life podcast. I hope everybody's buckled up. They got their seatbelts in, they're strapped in, and they're ready for a wild ride. have an incredible show for you today. The one and only

Hawk, as I like to call him, he is a leader, mentor, author, musician, social worker, amazing human being. He's been on the show before. You guys know him. You probably checked out his own channel. He's got lots of incredible content there, and I would definitely push people

that way so that you can see and hear more about him. However, today's a pretty special day for him. He's got a brand new book coming out that we're going to get into. We're going to learn a little bit more about him. about the book and about what's going on in the content of that book, the state of the world. And before I just keep going on and on about how great you are, Hawk, maybe I should throw it over to you for a moment to flesh out any background you want to give us here.

Well, I wear many hats. One of them is I'm a monk. And actually, I have my fifth year anniversary in three days. and that has been for someone who, you know, I really resonate with, hey, Lonnie, I really resonate with the female energy, with women, my favorite creature. So taking that step back five years ago, that was a bit of a challenge to say the least. but it's also brought me many beautiful moments and so many insightful conversations

when you step away from the strongest urge that we as human beings have and you put that aside that's not on the table that leads to so many but yes thank you for the beautiful introduction George I remember our conversation fondly that I was in winter and I was walking around snow falling out of my neck and walking my dog. Yeah, I love talking with people with insight and people who are willing to talk about the difficult stuff because we need to talk about it. Yeah.

Yeah, it's, you know, if we just stay there for a moment, it seems to me that with age sort of comes the ability to not have this incredible fervor to chase around women on some level. Maybe that's the, you know, I think it was Marcus Aurelius who talked about sometimes the idea of being a man is just, it's overwhelming. And sometimes all you can think about is women. You know, when I think of younger guys, I think a younger version of myself, like, that's dominant. It's such a huge part of my life. Like I was unable to really focus on business or anything else because I just thought how beautiful women were. And like, what can I do to make these women like me more? But maybe you could speak to the idea of how it's changing, how getting older and seeing the world through the lens of a monk or the lens of an older gentleman who is finally clear on his process.

Like it's happening to me. I'm coming up on 50, but I am beginning to see the world differently. and things are falling away. Maybe it's my age, but maybe you could speak to that as someone who's gone through that process and how you think different and how you act in the world different. Well, you know, one of the lights of my life, one of my, I don't want to call it idols,

but one of my, those who I like to use as a measuring person, so to speak, is Jesus. And my impression of Jesus of his life, And what I found when I started reading the Bible back 54 years ago or something was that he met people. He didn't meet a leper. He met the person. He didn't meet the prostitute. He met the person.

And he connected on the level. He didn't say that, oh, I'm holier than thou. And I know what's right for you. And I'm going to come here and heal you. and he just connected. And I think that that is part of what being a monk has made even more clearly in my life, that we are all both physical and spiritual beings on a journey. And we can connect on many levels.

But it's so crucial that we, there to see beneath the surface, to truly look beyond the color, our skin, our gender, all of these outer characteristics, and to truly connect heart to heart with the person. And that stems from, of course, just like you're saying, I've also made my mistakes. I lived alive. And when I was young, I didn't pretty much what you talked about. So I don't regret anything. I just am happy that I had a chance to better myself.

Yeah, it makes sense. It's an incredible journey that we've been on in our lives. And if we take time to realize that it is, in fact, a journey. I think we can really get a lot of work done and figure out how to better navigate the relationships in our life. It kind of brings us to the topic of today about, first off, the incredible Lonnie Ray, the Rattled Awake series is just this movement. It's taken on a life of its own and it has found incredible authors and it has inspired so many people. It's sort of, I think the Rattled Awake movement today is what the chicken soup for the soul was, you know, many years ago and I can't say enough about all the authors and Lonnie Ray and I've I've had a part

in a series a while back and I'm so honored to get to be part of this family and it feels like every edition comes out it gets better you know and I'm like oh my god this is better well this is a better one look at this person it's such a cool thing and I just want to point people to him how maybe we can start at the beginning how how how was it that that rattled awake found you well I was on LinkedIn, as many of my connections. I don't remember if that was true, someone that Lonnie worked with or was other way around. Please start talking about writing books.

It must be a year half ago. By the way, Lonnie has worked with Mark Hanson. So, yeah, it was a good, good comparison. Imagine that. We started talking and then when she released, not this book, but the last one, the bully book, I was a part of that. And I truly loved the process.

You know, for me, I'm a verbal man. and when I write something, I had not very fun. Oh, you can't use more than this in many words, because everything has to be explained and blah, blah, blah, all that. But then I had to set borders for myself. Hey there, Tanya. I had to set borders for myself. And that was, because then you have to go into really,

okay, what is the important subject that you want to share? And in Bullied, I wrote it as a social worker who's been a consultant for, lots of friends coming in from the middle week 11 call. Yeah, I wrote it as a social worker who has been a consultant for a consultant for for a couple of parents who lost custody of children. So I've been in so many meetings with child welfare in Sweden. And I've seen it. I've seen how much they have hurt both the parents and the children.

And that really struck me. So I wrote about why aren't they more flexible? why don't they see that they may have taken a wrong step early in the process? Why don't they have the cognitive flexibility to see that, okay, we may have been to investigate that? So there was a chapter of the two parents, Trina Wider, who are Norwegian, by the way. They wrote about a letter to their kids because both of them have some issues. They may not be alive when their children are old enough to get in touch with them. They haven't seen them for four and a half years.

And then I wrote like the professional crying. At times when I was writing that chapter, I was crying like, I believe it. Because, you know, I haven't always been a monk. I have three kids on my own. And soon, very soon, in a week or so, two grandkids, granddaughters. And it really touched me, you know, to feel that and to have to be professional. And, yeah.

But then we got the Rattle Awakebook. And Lange said that she was going to be about mental. health and mental health has sort of been my life for, well, I started working in institutions when I was 17. I have also been in institutions. I have been admitted to psychiatric wards. And I've used, when people talk about antipsychotics, answer the presence and whatnot, I've used them. I know what damage they did. me. And I also know that when my life started to, it was a rattle awake moment, when I was suggested I should use an early SSRI when I was 27, something like that that threw me off. That threw me off.

It truly, it just, it made me stick. It felt like they were shooting my brain chemistry with a shotgun. And I developed hyperglochemia, you know, extreme low blood sugar. I remember one time I was going to Oslo with my, the woman who became my wife and we were going to go to a specific station. And when we came to the central station, I said, I have to go out. I have to go out. I need to go to the kiosk, buy something to eat. And that was because my blood sugar at the time was so low, so low that I had to have a chocolate to get up again. So I managed to quit those pills and get rid of the problems with the help of, how do you pronounce it, homeopath? Yeah.

Yeah. Who has specialized in exactly problems like this. People who had used the SISRIs antidepressants and developed, hyperglychemia. So me and Beatty, who's the name of my ex-wife, we went on a diet. And that was a strict diet, really. And we had to use a lot of different supplements among them. One that I started using now as well, chromium. Because I love sugar. And I know it's not very good for me. Right? So to get down on that. And we managed to clear it up. But because she supported me. I was retested by the homeopath and the problem was gone. But it was a tough process, really.

And that is, you know, in the in the Rattled Wake, the mental health edition, there are a lot of strong stories. Yeah. There are people like Seamus who shares his part from being a Catholic priest, a role that he was forced into, actually, by his family. was not his wish and how how many problems that caused we have a mother and son who found their tribe in the nerd community a nerd con i believe it was called so the shepters from both of them we have 12-step process you know taking the

the Alcoholics Anonymous, the 12-step process, and transporting it into the life of people who doesn't have addiction problems. How can he use the 12 steps? That's Rob's chapter. Beautiful. We have Dante, who's a young entrepreneur, and he shares about how his grandma inspired him. I could continue, but you should read the book. Whoever is listening and watching this, you got to read the book because nerd-cored party copy. Thank you, Tommy. And, you know, that story resonated me because I was a true nerd. I mean, I was a tech head totally.

And I was a part of the growing nerd movement in Norway. So I've been to, I've been a part of the largest lawn party in Norway. I've seen all of this. So it's, you know, I can so resonate with what Tonya and her son wrote. They have separate chapters. Then you got three. And I'm sorry, I could go on and on because we have, we have such a specter of people. they have a healer who talks about how she healed herself from fibromyalgia,

which in Western medicine, that's, you can't cure it. You can't cure it. It's not possible. And yeah, I could, as I said, I could go on and on. actually because the stories of Rattleawake 11, all of them touched me in a special way. So I put up this website where we can have resources and stuff. So it's Romeo alpha11.info.

Then we can share. Because we also got a rocker who is joined, who had a song. about the suicide of one of his band members. Yeah, it's a book that is on so many levels. It's it, it blows me away the state of mental health in the world today. And I'm not sure if it's because of where I'm out of my life and I can see it all, or if just every one of us have been touched by a suicide or a mental health condition

or maybe have had suicidal thoughts ourselves, like the state of the world, it seems to me, is in sort of a rattled wake moment of its own. Like we're coming to this term and looking around and being like, what the hell is wrong with us? What is going on here? You know, my knees died of fentanyl not too long ago, and it just rattled our whole face. family. And my story is not, it's not by any means alone. Every one of us knows someone who's struggling and suffering. And in that suffering, it feels as if it's the one thing that brings us together. But, but what, what is going on in the state of the world where we're, we're just

getting to this moment where it seems like people are really either waking up and helping people or are still going through their trauma? Has it always been this way? Or what do you think is going on right now? I think it's gotten worse. I see in my little country, Norway, there was an increase of suicides from 2022 to 23 of 70 people. And yeah, and you know, my country is a rich country. We have the resources to help people. But what is happening is they're moving away from compassion and care. to just drug them. It's easier for the system to give a person a patient shot in the

tie with an antipsychotic than to have them in an institution. And that is that is a trend we've seen. And then at the same time we see that in Norway we had the the medicine-free movement, which I was a part of us. I was the head of a couple of NGOs so I saw that there was places where you could come and

not even be offered the option of pills because you didn't want them yourself you could work through your stuff but that is much because I think of the greed of big pharma

is being sabotaged. I think it was said that Einstein and he was supposed to said that the definition in science is repeating the same thing

and expecting a different outcome. As far as I know, he didn't never said that, but at least it's also registered. But I think that's pretty smart because aren't we when we see that the way we give medicines to people who have a problem,

it doesn't help them at all. I mean, it can help initially. It can help, for instance, say that if you are totally off your rockers and you haven't slept for a couple of weeks and you're feeling totally frazzled, okay, maybe you need something to calm down in a good environment, and you need to sleep. You need to land. But you know, you can have the same outward expression if you're in a spiritual crisis. Say that you're in a kundalini awakening. I've gone through some of those myself and on the outside it looks scary as hell. Really? But then the inside

It's a form of ecstasy and connectedness. And it is magic. It's like seeing everything clearly and you look through the back of your head and you experience music is amazing. And everything is so strong. And of course, and you also have some, some, like I was, I ran up a mountain. It was like this, this is, it was in Norway.

And I ran all the way up. And I sat down and I just, look at the nature. Oh, Jesus, it's so beautiful. And I just felt the nature all over the connectedness. It was really, really something special. And, but if the psychiatrist has seen me, at the time. He or he would have said, okay, this guy is totally psychotic. We've got to get an ambulance, get him into a psychiatric ward, have him locked down, give him something to dampen him. And that's because

they wouldn't have bothered to ask me the question, what are you going through now? Because I was loosened. I could talk. You know, I could say that, you know, I could say that, you know, I am experienced the world in a manner that is totally different. And I haven't used any drugs, but I'm high as a kite. But I'm high on life. I'm high on the experience. And I don't really need a drug to come down because just let me run. Let me do my thing.

Let me sing. Let me write songs. Let me be here in this beautiful moment. And that is what I need. So, yeah, but I'm to get back to your question, I think you should always follow the money. And big pharma is big farmer. It is a system that is self-sustainable because they get to create a diagnosis that they give us. and then they get to come up with, thank you, Tonya, they get to come up with the cure.

So they have both sides. And then they say, and this is an important point, let's say that you had what they call a psychotic break. You get the diagnosis of your schizophrenic, for instance, or paranoid schizophrenic, or whatever. Often they say then that you have a chemical imbalance. Your dopamine is out of proportion with the other serotonin, noradrenaline and the other neurotransmitters. So you have to be on medication for the rest of your life. And that is flawed. That's part of what I write about in my chapter that this is this has been you know you can't you can't prove a hypothesis

right you can say that this is not valid and then it has been invalided and that i think is scary because we do know and i'm it's not as if i'm and this is this is important george i'm not saying cut out your pills, throw them off out the window because that is not something you should do on your own. It is something you need to

do along with someone who knows what you're going through who can help you taper gradually because it's a tough process especially if you used it for some time. So you need to

but I use this book in my chapter and see if you can get it through now. Yeah, it's a book by a Danish psychologist and psychiatrist called Anders. And he was met by many people came to him as a psychologist and said that I'm not comfortable using drugs. the psyched drugs, psyched pharmac. And so I want to get help to taper down and to quit. So we started off making some free resources and he was interviewed by a newswick among other things. And then he wrote a book. And it's one of the few books that I read that are actually peer reviewed. Thank you. It is peer reviewed. And it's, it's, about how to taper in a good way. Because what many people forget is that when part of this,

this is called it's side effect of tapering or cutting out drugs, is that you can get the same symptoms that you were originally given the drugs for. When you cut out an antidepressant, part of the quite common effects is that you experience depression. But, But it is also, like we talked about suicide, many of the SSRI, for instance, they come with a black box warning. They increase the chances of suicidal ideation and actions, the first 14 to three weeks that they used them. And I think I've rather live in my life being a bit on a roller coaster. and to experience life than to go through it like this yeah it's um it's interesting i uh you know i work with kids in the afternoon and i was talking to a young lady and we were having a drawing

contest and she gave me this really cool response after everybody finished she says who won and i'm like Well, a lot of people won for lots of different reasons. And she goes, no. There can only be, there's winners and losers, George. Some people have to win and some people have to lose. I'm so excited because it's such a cool answer for a kid to give me. Like, obviously, I want all the kids to be awesome. But she's right.

Like, there has to be a winner and there has to be a loser. The same way when you go through life, there has to be ups and there has to be downs. You can't get, you can't take in that beautiful vista from the top of the mountain. If you haven't been down in the low in the valley. It's like those things go together. And it's, it's interesting that on some level, I think society tries to tell us you don't need to have lows. You can just be high all the time. That's not true.

That causes its own set of problems. And we try to live that way. Like we're surrounded by this, you know, this society that tells us to be happy all the time or that things are good, but they're not good. And it's interesting. You know, in your book in the article, you had mentioned that something that really stood out to me is that, being poor is a taboo. And then, you know, so a question I wanted to pull on there is, what do you think it would take for society to begin addressing this issue openly?

Oh, that's a good question. I have done a little work on that myself. I'm also a politician in Norway. And so I'm helping create a new political party. Nice. And in our party program, I've had one of the things my calls through, it's really close to me, is talking about how we need to look into when a person says that they have some mental issues. We need to clear up their finances.

Yeah. Because, you know, during the depression, for instance, people just left, jumped from skyscrapers. They went, they saw that because they couldn't take care of the families. And that is, we tend to forget that 70% I believe is of suicides are men. And we have often the. role even though our society is changing in many ways which is good that people are getting to be more you don't have to if you're a CEO you don't have to be a man for instance but still it's it's often that men take this responsibility I am the breadwinner I I am the one who you

has to provide from a family and if something happens to your ability to provide then that can be a blow that just makes you say, okay, I can't live with this anymore. We've seen it. There are so much, so many statistical reports saying that this is a huge problem. That the people, I believe it was a Swedish study that showed that O'Dosso had been in, contacted by something called Kuhne Fogden, which is like a governmental institution that says, okay, you owe money, you got to pay it back or we'll take your house, your car or whatever. 40% of those had attempted suicide. And this is, it's just the same in my country.

I've seen some reports regarding this. So this is something we need to address. We need to be able to talk about it open. that if let's say that I as a therapist somebody says I want to talk with you if they say that okay I'm feeling low and all of that I also need to ask him okay how how do you live well I have one room apartment and live on my own and and I need to to go into their life in order to see are there any things that need to be cleared up before we can work therapeutically.

Because if you don't have the... And this is something I learned from my mother who was a psychologist. I was blessed enough. I worked with her first 10 years of my working life. three was my boss. And then I also got to, because I referred clients to her. And a few times I was allowed to sit in on the therapy. And that was where she started.

She said, okay, we need to, where are you? Where do you live? Do you have kids? She evaluated all of these factors before she went to anything therapeutic at all. Because if you don't know where tomorrow's dinner is coming from or whether you can pay your landlord, how can you sit down and talk about, oh, yes, I'm feeling kind of sad. And you can't go into therapeutic processes if they are some concern with what is happening here. And we truly need to recognize that in mental health, that this is a huge issue.

And it's so easy to do something about it, that that is one of my, one of the things that really ignores me. Like in my country, we have companies who are experts at getting, making sure that the various companies, your bills are paid, you know, you go to and you get your credit score goes down, then you can't get a loan and everything. And those companies, if they were told you are not allowed to charge enormous rates that you are charging, if they were told that, okay, you have to offer options for people to get out of that. If the Norwegian government has said, okay, we need to control this. Because these companies, they are making billions. And I really, I do have quite a few bills there myself. I can't get a loan.

No way. So I don't have, and I take full responsibility for my finances. That I made some bad choices, but I would like to fix it. And doing it slowly, but I know that I can't, for instance, get a loan to, to buy a new car if I needed that or a used car, I would be, or that is not part of the package for me. And there are so many of us. And when you try to talk with our system, it's often like, okay, you have to lie in the bed that you made of yourself. Okay.

I think we need to see that people needs to be met with compassion. I think we need as social workers working with people who are in debt or who you are on welfare or whatever, they need to be aware of these things. Because, you know, if you go, like I was living in my car. The weekend was coming. I didn't have a dime. I had, fortunately, I had food for my dog. I didn't have any food for myself.

And I got an appointment with social services, and I said, okay, this is the situation. And I said, yeah, okay, you have to bring in all your bills and blah, blah, blah, all of that. Okay, and I said, yeah, great. Here you got access to all my accounts. You can see what I have. And so that was on Thursday, on Friday I came back.

I said, no. you can't get anything. And I said, okay, why? Well, among the bills that you presented the receipts and bills, you had paid your student loan. And I was, okay, well, what does that have to do with my current situation? Well, sorry, can't get anything. And I was like, okay, maybe I should tell you that I,

that was one of the bills I'd put. I hadn't paid the student loan so that was for flawed information. She hadn't done her due diligence. But still, I remember that, you know, it's okay, well, I'm Nanish on my own. No problem. And I did. I'm still here, but... But small things like that can be enough for people to just, okay, I'm... I give up.

I will do make that horrible decision because it truly is. You make the horrible decision, okay, no, it's enough. I'll just finish. Yeah. It's, you know, I remember in 2008 when we had the financial crisis over here, I think the one thing that's happening, at least in the United States, and I think it's happening around the world when you see the process. test, whether it's the yellow vests in France or the uprisings in the Middle East or maybe what's

going on in all over the world is that on some level, the governments always tend to bail out corporations. They have no problem, you know, funding subsidies or bailing out the richest people or bailing out the corporations. We even have slogans like too big to fail. But what about the people that make up those corporations? What about the people that make up those corporations? What about the people that have given everything and there's no bailout for them. I can't, I think that that is a big part of why we see this mental crisis throughout the world right now is that people around the world have had enough. Like the level of corruption that is just coursing through the veins of government is it's got to go. And, you know, it happens from time to time. And I, I think people are

are scared at the top. I think that they have figured out, okay, we have nowhere to turn. And I'm not saying everybody at the top is corrupt, but the institution itself doesn't seem to be working for everybody. And when that happens, you know, if history is the best predictor of future behavior,

like we're in for some turbulent times. Oh, yes. But I fully agree, George, we are on the precipice. We are very thin lines. between something that can be lead to a third world war. Or we are really, this is superior this time. And that comes from among other things.

Yeah, well about us the people. Yeah. That is because people, they have no belief in politicians anymore. They don't trust politicians. Politicians, so I, if we keep giving away our power, then the past equals the future. Beautiful, it said, Lonnie.

I lost you right there for a minute, huh? But yeah, I'll just pull on this right. I think he'll be back in it just shortly here. But I agree with you, Lonnie, 100%. I see it happening. And it's back. There you go. Yeah.

Yeah. Moving around the wild. firebox on the cell. Yeah, I am really afraid because here's learning from past can it really change the future. We've got to learn from the past in order to find new ways to handle things. If we forget our past, if we forget what happened in Germany pre-World War II and also pre-World War I shot in Sarajevo

if you forget these things then it's really that's virileous and we need to and I'm speaking as a politician I need to be able to talk with people and say that okay but yeah you can talk about

all the the US president or whatever. That's not just where I am at. I am more concerned with you. What do you see as a solution? What are the causes that you are into? And what brought you there? What is your history?

It's just like I'm talking about in the book chapter about the power threat meaning framework. because I think that's beautiful as going from diagnosis into what really happened with you what happened in your life and I think as politicians

we need to have the talks with people because it's so easy to sit there and oh yeah but life or we don't talk about one single case we are working on politics

and politics is there and you are there Yeah. Politics is made up of single individuals. And we need to make some changes. And I sense that we are on a path that can diverge in different directions. One of them is very bleak with wars and everything. The other one is moving towards cohesion, community and love.

Lovast Dianthe Dov, just my chapter is titled. Yeah, it's a great title. I think it speaks to the path that we could be on. And, you know, and the opposite of division is unity. And I, it's amazing to me. I do think that this whole Rattled Awake Movement, your chapter, everything Lonnie's doing and Bree and Tanya and Sithery, everybody is creating their own stories for like-minded people

to find and investigate and realize the stories that you are writing and I am writing and everybody's writing are the story that everybody else is living. Like we're so similar in so many ways and we're so close to coming together and finding a solution to find a better path forward for all of us. Like I see the sunrise on some level. Like when I look out there, I'm like, oh, it may, there may be some storm clouds, but I do believe that there is a sunrise among us. It's sort of, it must be similar. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, and that is, you know, I do meet a lot of people. And in my job, I met some very dark people.

With lack of a better, better expression, people who are within the dark triangle, in a much of alien, narcissistic and sociopathic. and I think thank you for president and I and I and but but this

your point is so important you know because when I was working with people who were like that and I and like many other in my healer new HG thing

some people say oh there's only there's only love everybody has something good within them oh it's Carolyn okay I know you are thank you Carolyn she's beautiful you should read a chapter as well going through the thing with shunt and everything it's like wow yeah but but yeah people say that okay we all we need to do is we need to sit down in lotus and then we meditate on the beauty of the world, we set our intentions, and everything will be fine. Well, I think we need those people.

Yeah. We need the monks who sit in India and who sit in Nepal and Tibet. We really need them. They are like lighthouses. but that doesn't mean that it's the right part for you, George. It doesn't mean that it was the right, I couldn't move to Tibet, for instance, or to India or whatever,

and been a monk there and it would be probably much easier because they're more used to monks. But that wasn't the right for me. If I see something that happens, if I see injustice, if I see someone who's taking advantage of another person, then I act. I do, and that has been my life. I'm a warrior.

And so, so, so I act. And then sometimes I make mistakes and then I have to go and say, I'm sorry. I didn't, I didn't catch a situation just the way it was or whatever. And I learned from that and move on. But we need both the peaceful warriors and the ones who are willing to go out and defend other people. We need both because otherwise who's going to fight the child traffickers, who's going to say that, okay, you can't abuse elderly, for instance. We need the whole spectrum.

And it wouldn't work for me just to sit in a lotus and be holier than I think. It doesn't work. And I need to act. And I spend my life. Oh yes, here comes. Action alleviates anxiety. Yeah. And that is so true, because I've talked about this with a lot of people.

And often people are like, but I was afraid to act. Okay, but do something. I mean, if it's, let's say that you see somebody getting beat up on the street, at least put up your cell phone and document. and call 911 in the States and 112 in Norway, be there or be there as a bystander and make sure that you tell, you help fix whatever problem arises from that beating up. Get involved. Don't be one of those, you know, Lonnie talks about 75% or something of people who see bullying, they get become bullies themselves.

Either by active participation or simply, oh, okay, that's what it is. And I think that that is kind of scary. We need people to stand up both for themselves and for others. Yeah. It brings to mind a sort of an interesting question, at least in my mind. And it is that, and I'm curious to get your opinion, like you are a very creative person. You have found a lot of different outlets in order to create different versions of yourself, be it music or writing or, you know, there's a myriad of things that you do. But it seems to me that a lot of great art comes from pain. A lot of great art. A lot of great art. come from real struggle. And we see that in symbols, you know, symbolism throughout the past and imagery and language. On some level, is it too much to think that the pain we're going through? Sometimes suicidal ideation is necessary for us to become the best versions of ourselves,

to really create something beautiful. You need to have that level of suffering. Yeah. next question no no you don't have to go through a lot of pain because you know

pain as a certainty suffering is optional so it all depends if you if you choose it you can go into something that was just a tiny, tiny thing. And you can go in and say,

he looked at me in a way that I didn't appreciate. Then you can use that emotion to create phison in your system and then create art from there. I don't, but what you're talking about, if you, I link to my website Surround Therapy. com in the book, there's this guy called Dabowski, who is a Polish, I believe it's a psychiatrist, and he wrote this amazingly complex books. I tried reading in them and I, yeah, it was brilliant. He talked about the stages that you have to go through in order to get, to be lifted in a spiritual way, you know, to find enlightenment and awakening.

So he created this and it's, I recommend reading at least Wikipedia entry about that guy. as linked from the trauma site. And here comes an important point from Carolyn. It's about conditioning. When you choose not to act, it's because we are often, I know this is especially prevalent in the US. If you go in and protect someone in a situation,

then you may be sued. and all and and I don't know I've done some some martial arts myself I have

by choice not I don't have a single belt because if I had had a belt and I since I walk in the darkest streets and of cities and stuff if I had

interfered in such an altercation and one of them got hurt, then I would be considered a weapon. So if I was sued and then would be made, and that, it doesn't make sense. We, there are so many ways you can help with the situation. So many.

And that comes, whether the bully is an institution, like I wrote about in bullied, or when also in Rattle Wake 11, there were big farmers as a bully and psychiatry, part of psychiatry. Or it's a person. There are so many ways you can support. And we all have, we all have our gifts, our star powers as one of my own personal favorites. says she's also quoted in the book. We all have something that we can do to help.

Right. And that is really necessary. Our bus basketball, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, sometimes the work environment is a place that has become a hostile work environment. I think it echoes society. You know, when we see each other as less than human and when we see each other as numbers to be productive, We really stripped the humanity out of the relationships.

But, you know, I think Rattled Wake 11, I have, you were gracious enough to send me your chapter. And I got to look at it a little bit. And I'm going to be buying the book here real shortly, probably as soon as I get off of here. I can't wait to check out everybody's stories. It never ceases to amaze me the amount of people, Lonnie, that gravitate towards this idea yourself. And so many people that have found the courage to write. about their stories and it never ceases to amaze me how viral all these books go you know it seems like every rattle the wake is like boom international bestseller boom international bestseller

it's just a testament to people's authenticity and the power that everyone's finding that i it's amazing to me it is beautiful and and you know all all the way since since we met we we have the way lany has designed us is that we have a zoo meeting uh over a weekend And some of us had already written our chapter, others hadn't started. And then we work together, you know, and we collaborate. And then we also do the same after the book has been launched. So I'm supporting, you know, Seamus's post and Lannis' post and Carolyn's post and Tanya's post. And we all work together.

But also that it seems that the whole community are rattled awake authors. they really, oh, new book has come out. Yeah. And then they also know, you know, that it's important, for instance, to have reviews on Amazon. Really, that brings you up on the algorithm. So they know that, okay, I got to add in a review. And it's, yeah, it's such a sweet collaboration.

It's, I love it. And I know, I wish there's a suggestion on it. We should have a Rattleaway party with all, all the co-authors and authors. And that would be like, yeah. Right. Yeah. That would be amazing. I can already see like I, you know, in five years, one year, two years, five years or ten years,

it's going to be such a huge group of people that have participated in this. that it's really more of a movement than it is, you know, a story. But it's mind-blowing to me. But you know what, though, I wanted to give, as we're getting to land the plane here, I know that you have written a lot before and you have been part of lots of other creative endeavors. Maybe you could just kind of end off on telling us what was it about this particular project that seemed different to you? Was it the mental health aspect?

Was it the camaraderie? Did you learn something about you? like what was it about this particular, this particular rattled awake 11 that really felt different to you? Hmm. One thing is I wanted to work with Lonnie again. That was definitely one of the reasons. It was because I, you know, I am an empathic healer. And I, when I'm at my most sensitive, I feel the pain of the world.

I truly, and it comes channel through people I meet or a lot of different stuff and science that I see. And so I wanted to contribute with what little I can and to share some experiences. and also most especially to share hope. Because I worked in social work for 22 years. I worked with people that most other people, they don't even want to look at them. No, people with drug addiction, people who sit paraplegic in a white wheelchair,

people in the autism spectrum, Down syndrome, people who have cerebral palsy, You know, all of those who are outside of society, that has always been my crowd. But I have never given up on a client or someone who I call it customer client, whatever. I've never given up. I've always gone in when I met those people. I've gone and said, okay, if I can improve. your life one single percent today.

If I, then I will do it. And then tomorrow, you can repeat it and the day after you can repeat it. Because I don't think that you are lost. I don't think that you are beyond salvation. I don't believe that your situation can't be changed for the better. What you need is to start feeling that you are, also important and you are and if you don't believe that at least take my word for it you are important to me yeah yeah we're back again back again yeah i worked with people who

who were in the throes of committing suicide and that was what they wanted to do and to be a part of that process going from the lowest absolute lows that you can be at to where they can say that okay I'm not so bad after all I got through it and I came out and I was much stronger than I was before that has been a blessing and that is yeah we don't think of all the kids and youth and adults I work with I It just, I'm so blessed. I've been so blessed with all the meetings.

And it happens I meet them, you know, on the street or somewhere in the mall. Yeah. Can you wait one minute? All right. I can't recommend enough people go and check out the book. You know, we sort of danced around the fire a little bit. We kind of got into the peripheral of it. But there's so much meat on there.

And I really want people to go and check it out. I think you'll be inspired and moved. And there's so many cool techniques that people have found and discovered that have made their life better. And I think that's one of the other reasons why the book is so successful. It's packed with real life strategies that people have used and they've been replicated to create the best versions of themselves. And it's just, it's wonderful. But, Hawk, well, hang on. Before I let you go, where can people find?

find you. Is there a, is there an exact link? Should we shout out the title again? Where can people find you? What do you got coming up and what are you excited about? Oh, well, I'm excited about, you know, musically I've delved into Afro house, Afrobees. Nice. Oh yeah, and I enjoy it. So, you know, I wouldn't believe you. It's that date. It just, so if you go to YouTube and type in Am Ancient, you'll find some of my music. there also on Spotify and whatnot. Or you can go to M-A-N-A-N-C-I-N-T. Then you, of course, the books.

LinkedIn, I'm... Fok-O-N-R-N-A-N-E-L-Lan-E-Lan-N-E-Lan-N-E-Lan-E-Lan-E-Lan-E-Lan-E-Lan-E-Lan-E-Lan-E-Lan. There are so many things that excites me, George, right? Like, this weekend I'm going to be a part of... of Save the Children, the NGO, their annual gathering, their annual meeting. I'm so looking forward to that, you know, to get to meet other people who are really fighting for a common cause. But to me, art and writing, it's like, and dogs, of course. my beautiful nessi and adopti that that is what really gets me going but yeah get the book then you

find a few links and you also i think it's as you say it connects on many levels that that's that's why i like about it you know because if you're 15 years old and and you are in need of a network okay then they got a 15 year old talking about how he found this network through nerdcore music i believe it was called and and if you if you're like carolin who's had a long life of working and then she got somatic problems with brain injury and stuff. I mean, she used to work for the feds. This is one smart cookie.

Yeah. You know, she talks about how she has went through the pain and she still feels hope. She is still here. She is still flying. Then you got Tanya, you know, talking about supporting her son. Beautiful. and then you have Lonnie because

that and I wish I could mention all of them but I don't see we were running through a certain time you have Lonnie who shares she has her own stories and they are like real rattle awake stories but they always

come with a tongue in cheek and a twist that makes it so it doesn't get this is not a book that oh mental health is oh it's so horrible and oh yes and we

things are going to hell and a handbasket and it's a hopeful book and that is the energy that has been infused in this book and so I think that that is

you know you can use that I believe the site should be operational that are set up where will we put up resources and links to the Rattle Awake Movement, everything. It's linked to the books. Romeo alpha11.info.info. And I want to have, I want to also have presentations of the various authors

and playlist from Natania's son. you know to make it more I just started on the one of the so could you go back to the previous comment I think the frame of mental health validates and perpetuate suffering spot on yeah because you you give people a diagnosis right and you give them the solution which often is pills and then When the pills don't work no more, then there's something wrong with you. And if you experience that this is actually hurting me, then there's something wrong with you. It's never, is there something wrong with the system?

Does it help to create, give a person a diagnosis? Does it help to give them an SSRI or SNRI or an antipsychotic or whatever? we don't go into that. So, yeah. Yeah. I think about the model of addiction and mental health sometimes. You know, and it seems that we've, and I know there's a lot of good people that care about people,

but it seems that the model we've been working with for so long isn't so much a model to help people solve problems. It's a model that. help people manage their pain. It's like you hate your job, you hate your life. I could take this pill and you can do it one more day. You know, instead of saying why, why do you hate it? Instead of saying like, okay, you hate it, what are you going to do about it? You know, like those are real things that are very painful, but they're very rewarding. And just asking those questions, it's just that question why. I often think of a question mark like the side, right? Because the questions can cut stuff down

and they can cut back all the stuff, all the minutia and stuff. And if you start asking questions of like, okay, I hate where I'm at right now. Okay, congratulations. You figured that part out. That's a big step saying that out loud. What's the next step? What are you going to do about it? Okay, well, I'm going to start looking for something else.

While I get up and I go do this thing I hate every day, I'm going to start looking for something else. You know, I'm going to get up and go for a walk every day. Or I'm going to start forcing myself to see something beautiful every day. Like there's all these little steps we can take versus just taking a pill and numbing ourselves to the fact that we hate something. You know, it's it's we're there. Yeah. And that's like in Garbo Mathe's book about the normal.

That is, you know, it's like you got to start asking yourself, if you're feeling low. Is it because there is something wrong with you or are you surrounded by? assets. Simple question. Is your environment bringing you down? And is that and what do you want to do about it?

Yep. It's up to you. Yeah. It's powerful. Yeah. And you've got to make the changes. You know, it's like if you're

say that you're in a relationship that doesn't work. okay make a plan talk with your partner say that okay this is not working for me what can we do we can either

we can go to therapy we can there's a lot of things we can do lots of avenues to choose from but we do need to make changes and perhaps with me it ended up with one of the biggest losses of my life and I was getting

divorced but when I see look at it now five years later I see this was exactly what's right for my lovely ex-wife and for me that was what we needed and so so you got to be willing to to because you know I often talk about you know therapists can can help guide you a good therapist or a good coach can help guide you the therapy happens within you. Yeah. You are the source.

Yeah. So you can fix your life. You got to work on your own life. Yep. And it's just like healers. You know, I can't, if you came to me, I said, I had a headache. And I said, oh, I'm going to come with my magic hands and just fix George Monty. It's not that.

That's not the way it works. Because if you're not connected, then I can't work with the person. Yeah. If you don't have first a talk and talk about, okay, we need to figure it out where in your system as whatever issue is creating the headaches. Yeah.

And sometimes it might be, I've told that to people who wanted help. I said, I'm sorry, but I can't help you. You have to go to the doctor and ask him to check your liver. Because I, sorry, this is not the problem I can or want to, to work with you. First, you have to go and check that. And then come see me if you wish, but not before that. Because we need to work together.

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's, I think that that's the bridge. That's a great way to maybe leave people thinking we have to work together. It's a great place to leave it. But, well, hang on briefly afterwards, talk. I so want to talk to you just briefly afterwards, but to everybody who participated today, I'm so excited.

I'm so excited for the book launch, Rattled Awake 11. It's out now. Go to Amazon. Go down to the show notes. It'll be down there. So many incredible authors, do yourself a favor. Check it out. You'll love it.

You'll be inspired. And maybe you'll want to write your own Rattle the Wake piece. So if you read it, be careful because it's contagious. It'll make you want to become part of the movement, you know. So, yeah. And that's all we got for today, ladies and gentlemen. I hope you have a beautiful day and thank you so much. Aloha.

Thank you for watching. Appreciate you all. Nice.