TrueLife - Humans are the sex organs of machines - Kevin Holt

Episode Date: August 7, 2022

Today we talk with Kevin Holt, Author, Leader, & Explorer about life’s mysteries. As well as, the almost universal prevalence in human culture of some form of alternative state of consciousness. Throughout History, there have been mystics, shamen, saints, & occult figures who have been able to see the world around them in ways which were damn near original. Most cite alternative states of consciousness as the key to such insight. https://www.kevinholt.me/

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark, fumbling, fear. Hears through ruins maze, lights my war cry, born from the blaze.

The poem is Angels with Rifles. The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Serafini. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the True Life podcast. We are here with the one and only. Kevin Holt, he is the author of at least one book that I know about. He's got some courses on breathwork. traveled around the world.

He's a Swiss citizen, but he's not a stranger to the United States of America. He thinks Vegas is kind of crazy. So let's chit-chat with him a little bit and see what we got going. Kevin, how are you? My friend, what's new? I'm well, and welcome to Georgia's show. George Monti is a podcaster, extraordinaire, excellent interviewer, and author himself. So thank you for having me on the show once again, Mr. George Monty.

Ah, the pleasure is online. Yeah, good. It's been an interesting week. Um, we've sort of decided that I need to do a lot more social media. So I'm going to be doing a lot more social media. So anybody that's on my social media, you're going to see a lot more stuff. Yeah. So that's it.

That's its own whole puzzle to figure out. Now, I don't know, anybody listening, whoever is an aspiring artist or writer, um, like myself, one thing I've realized is that the writing isn't actually the hard part. So it's hard. You have to get over resistance to actually finish the work. But then now you have something. Now I've got a book. Now the challenge is how do you get people to read it?

And I put in my head a number. I want 10,000 people to read it. I've got about 200 something right now. But here's the conundrum in that I personally, and maybe other people do who are writers. I tend to be introverted, let's say. I enjoy my privacy. I have no desire whatsoever to be famous

or be on magazine covers or anything like that. But unless people know who I am, how are they going to find about my book and read it? So that's what I've been sort of battling with and trying to puzzle out what I need to do to get there. You're preaching to the choir. You know, I, it's a blessing and a curse because right now it is possible for you to have, to be on a podcast, to start your own podcast, to do your own marketing. On that level, it's a blessing.

But on another level, it's a curse because you have to do your own marketing. You have to go on your own podcast. And you have to do it. You can. And you're kind of a prisoner to that. You don't have the machine that is the big business model. You don't have something you can just plug right into and go about it that way. When you say you're going to be doing a lot, what kind of strategies do you have?

What have you thought about doing? Well, I'm on the usual channels. I'm on LinkedIn. I think LinkedIn I've had the most success with because it was my professional network. And I think more people know me personally than I'm the other ones where I have a lot of strangers following me maybe. So I'm on LinkedIn, Instagram. I have an interesting story about Facebook, actually. I have been sort of shadow banned from Facebook, and I found this out last week.

And the reason I found this out is because I wanted to run another ad campaign for my book. And I did one a couple of years ago, got a few sales off of it, learned some things, and then just sort of dropped it. I don't know why I dropped it, but I just decided not to do it because there was some issues with the platform I was using, and I needed to rework it, and then I just put it aside and sort of forgot about it, and then got busy with other things. So then when I went back into my account, and this is typical Facebook for anybody that wants to do social media ads with Facebook,

this kind of stuff happens all the time. The account, well, it's basically you have an account that's tied to a page and you use a page to run ads. They said my page was restricted from advertising since the 20th of December 2020. And I was, I think I was running ads maybe three or four months before that the last time. I had not run a single ad since then. So I was trying to think, okay, why would they do that? And then I looked at the page where it says account quality and it shows what violations you may have, but there were none.

There was nothing listed. And then the other thing I looked at about count standards said that my page was in good working order and there were no issues with it. So I appealed the restriction. And all I asked them was to clarify. It said it didn't even tell. me what I did wrong. It just said there was some violation. So I said, I just want to know what I did wrong so I can fix it. And you can't ever talk to anybody at Facebook. You just do this generic request. And then it came back, not even a day later. And it said, we've reviewed your case. We've permanently ban you from advertising. This is our final decision. No explanation. So I'm going, all right, well, that stinks because I only really want Facebook to run ads. Because otherwise there's not a whole lot of value ad other than. as an address book. So I'm trying to think, like, what could I have done?

And the only thing that comes to mind was around this time of December 2020, I created a lengthy post of all that I could research about the COVID vaccines that was available at the time. It hadn't been rolled out yet. I think maybe first responders in the U.S. got it in December, but it wasn't even really rolled out until January 2021. But once it was coming out, and the studies were out, I researched it as much as I could.

I want to know what was going on. And I wrote this long post. It was referenced. I had links to articles with scientists and all, like as many sort as I could find. And I said, based on my research, the vast majority of people probably shouldn't take this thing.

Because unless you have a preexisting condition or you're a risk group, the cost benefit ratio doesn't necessarily work out because of all the unknowns. At that at that time, we didn't really know anything that hadn't rolled out yet. And it was a long thing. And I think that's the only thing I can think of that might have flagged my account stealthily like that. So yeah, so I had to delete my account.

Now I'm starting all over from scratch with that. Yeah, that was huge. I mean, you're not the only one. I think it was there was a really, a really, what's the word I'm thinking for? A really tight-knit case of people coming together and making sure certain things, There was like a really overreaching arm of censorship that came out and really pushed all that information down. And it was it was fascinating in a way to see the level of coordination that took place.

And, you know, we hear when we think about, you know, large companies competing against one another. But this was a case of them working together with one another to make sure that there was a narrative in place. And maybe, you know, I guess it. could be argued that people thought they were acting in the name of good faith in people's health. You know, I don't agree with that. I think there should be a robust conversation and debate about anything that's going to be rolled out in health care.

However, that seems to be the, if I was going to steal man, if that's what I would say they were doing. But, yeah, I think that that's very plausible. You could have been shadow banned or completely banned or lost your account for that. Yeah. My friend said he's like, you don't have the social credit to be able to do business. I said, that's probably what happened. Because they let me keep my account. I could still post and everything. I just couldn't advertise. And my page didn't do anything. My page was posting yoga videos and stuff like that. There was no political stuff at all on the page itself. So it's the only thing that it could have been. So what was interesting is I deleted everything and then I started over with a new account and I made a new page. And within five minutes of me making the page, they took it down. them. And all I had put was a photo. And they said I violated the community guidelines, which is stuff like sexual harassment and all these things. I mean, that's just put photo in my face. That's all I posted. Well, I appealed that. And then they actually realized that they made a mistake. So I guess sometimes they do judge in your favor. But yeah, so now they put it back off. And now I'm going again. And I just started this ad campaign just to see what happens. Yeah. So yeah. Go ahead. Sorry. No, it's all good. I just, I've used. I've used. I've used. I've used. I've used Facebook to promote my podcast on sometimes, and it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, I'm

me about it. And one thing that I've, one thing that I've, one thing that I really enjoyed, but it was also somewhat scary to me was, um, the way you can target audiences on Facebook. Like, you can pick, you know, pick your age group between 10 and 70. And you could put in there, I want someone who, I want someone who, you can pick, who likes science, who studies grammar, logic and rhetoric, and black Nikes and biological warfare. You can just target audience. And as I'm targeting my audience, I started thinking of the way in which we describe advertising

as a target audience. Like what else you use a target for, like a gun, a weapon, and social media advertising, you could argue that advertising, especially the ads, and I'm guilty of it for running them, they are like a weapon. If you can design a really good ad, then you can penetrate the skin. You can penetrate people's minds and get in their head. It's an incredible type of weapon.

And it just blows my mind to think about what the language we use explicitly explains what we're doing. That's amazing to me. And Facebook's really, really good at targeting people. Yeah, and you can do all kinds of funky stuff. You can also retarget them. And then it's anybody that clicked or liked or followed you within a certain amount of time. And then you can create all these funky lookalike audiences. You can find people that look like people that like your stuff.

It's quite, yeah, it's quite elaborate. And there is sort of like an almost dirty feeling to it sometimes when you're doing it. You're like, okay, these people are, I've got so much information on, or I don't have it, but Facebook has it. Yeah. And a lot of marketing is fear manipulation. So part of it is how do I market this in a way that I find is ethical and that I'm comfortable with? And that's not necessarily easy thing to piece together. And it's also people do it because it works. They know that hitting those emotional triggers, the fear, the things that you wish you had and don't. That's what sells things. So I struggle with that sometimes. trying to find that balance. Yeah. For everybody listening, I would recommend that you go on Facebook and you sign up for a page and you play with these tools because once you begin either running an ad or just doing

like an ad mock up, you'll really begin to understand. Like if you can begin to understand how to target your own audience, then you will understand how you have become a target and you'll understand which boxes that you're in. Oh, I'm like a 47 year old white guy that listens to these things. That would probably be on this person's list. And then once you do that, you start seeing the ads in your stream, be it on Instagram or Facebook. And things will start clicking and be like, oh, wow, that's a trip. I see why these ads are targeted to me.

Like I'm being targeted car seats and, you know, a Tacoma truck. And I have you hit all these boxes so you can see the machine working. And Facebook will allow you to take a tour behind the scenes. It's like, it's like going to Disneyland and getting to watch the shows behind the scenes. And everybody can do it. You can go on Facebook and you can see the tools. You can see the machine. You can grab the levers and pull them.

And it's fascinating if you look at it from that aspect. And I recommend that everybody does it. Kevin, I got a question for you from one of our guests here. So here is our, let me try to see if I can put it up here. Okay, so this is our good friend, True Patriots, this guy's pretty awesome. He's been coming to all the shows and asking questions. Here's one he's got for you. He wants to know what is your book about, my friend.

The book is about the journey that I went through when I was miserable at my highly paid successful high-flying job, and I didn't understand why I was miserable. And so I went on this quest for information, trying to figure out what makes me tick, what the human needs are and emotions are, and what is happiness, and what are the keys to making yourself feel better, freer, happier, and create the life that you want. And over that course of time, I learned a few things and I put it into a narrative, which is this book and it's sort of a little bit about what I went through and then offering the strategies that worked for me to the reader. That's in a nutshell what it is. Thank you for asking, by the way. Yeah. And just for so for people listening, one thing that was awesome about your book amongst many was that there's a lot of cool exercises that you put in there for people to do. So it's not only a narrative.

and it's not only a story that you can read and maybe find yourself in. It's also chocked full of different, like, self-authoring type courses and activities that you can do. My question is, are those all things that you did that got you to maybe see the world or more clear? Yeah, for sure. I believe that writing is the most powerful tool to any kind of self-knowledge. So that's why I put those exercises in there. They're not big enough to do in the book necessarily, but if you have a separate piece of paper,

you can just write this stuff out. And one of them is draw a circle of the zones of your life. Like how would you divide your life into different parts? And then maybe there are four or five or six different ones. And then you can look at each one individually and go, well, how happy am I in this part? What needs in this area of my life are not being met? And how can I get them?

So that's one exercise. And there's probably four or five like that where you can list out, for example, your beliefs, which beliefs I have, what do they lead to and what decisions have they made to, which ones aren't necessarily working for me anymore, and which can I change? Because we can change beliefs. People think that they're static. They're actually not. A belief is just another layer of the ego like anything else that you can strip away and reconstruct with something that serves you more. So yeah, thank you. for bringing up the exercises.

That's probably the most powerful thing you can do while reading the book is actually do the exercises. Yeah, I feel like it's a one-two combo. You know, it's one thing to read about something, but it's another thing to participate in that very thing. It's like getting to see yourself from multiple angles or getting to see a conversation from multiple angles. And another thing I've found, you can use those same,

like you can just play around with that exercise and go with the three circles and then maybe change it into like a VIN diagram and find out, you know what? I'm happy with my relationships and I'm happy with this person I'm with, but I'm not really happy where we're at. And you can see, you can play with all of them. And it's powerful. Just, it's almost like you're allowing people to borrow the imagery of your mind as a tool and handing it to them.

Yeah. And like, hey, here's this wrench. Try this. Oh, you got a plumbing problem here. Try this pipe wrench. This is the one I use. So that's, that's one, another reason why I've found it to be, not only interesting but unique that way like you don't see too many too many people that are coaches

that want to help people have the ability to express themselves in two ways at once and that's what that's that's that's kind of what the book was you know it was a it was a multi-layered pipe range that makes sense yeah I mean and most of the stuff I didn't invent right I mean some of them I did but so don't just take me from elsewhere and I tried to put but as much as I could in a small space, because it's not very long. I think it's like 130 or 140 pages. You can probably read it in three hours.

But a lot of the books I read like that, they either don't have exercises like that or they're too long. They're four or five hundred pages long. And maybe it motivates you, it pumps you up. But I feel like one of the problems with self-development and personal development is people spend too much time on personal development. You know, just reading books, long books, and you read the next book, you read the next book.

My idea is like, here's a short book, read you real quick, and then go do stuff. Because it's in the doing of the stuff that you make change. So that's why it's not very long. Yeah. All right. So here's the, this guy is just, he is setting him up so you can knock him down. Look at this one right here. Here you go.

Sweet. What's the name of the book? Where can he order at? All right. Name of the book is called Young, Successful and Miserable. A, I don't remember the subtitle. guide to getting more freedom or something like that. I forgot the subtitle.

It's long. But young, successful and miserable. If you go to Kevin Holtbook.com, you can get the digital and audiobook versions. And it's cheaper there. I think it's like five bucks there. But if you want paperback, I can only offer it through Amazon. So if you go on Amazon, you'll find it there. But it'll be more expensive than plus shipping.

Yeah. I heard that there's a rumor going around. If they go to your website, you might sign a book for them. Do you have the ability to do that? Okay. Don't listen to that rumor then. I have to order it first and then mail it to you. I mean, I suppose we could figure it out.

Look at me making all these offers. I can't even back of. I wish there was a way to do that, like easily. Yeah. I'll put all the links in the show notes too. So our friend True Patriots over here can actually get a copy of it. Yeah, cool. Thanks, True Patriot for the.

questions. Yeah, absolutely, man. He's a, he's a he's, he's, he's one of us, it seems like. Yeah, it's good to find your people. It's, it's, you know, they're out there and they're making it hard harder to find them. But, you know, you got to find your tribe. Yeah. And I think the more you begin talking to people, the more you begin understanding that we're all on a journey and we, we're either going into a storm or in a storm or coming out of a storm, no matter where you are in life. And there's good tools for all three of those particular situations. And we all go through them. So depending where you are on the journey, it's nice to have a cool toolkit to fix these things. And I would recommend to everybody that keeping a journal is a phenomenal way of keeping

your way in life. Why do you think about earlier you spoke about how writing something is one of the best ways to help maintain your course or keep your, your, your, keep you on the straight and narrow. Why do you think that is? It's just it's just the best way to focus your thinking when you write it out because you were talking before about having a lot of things going on in your head. For you that works, for a lot of people it doesn't work. And it's just you have a constant distraction and you're always going real quickly down all these different tangents. When you sit down and you try to focus and you try to stay on topic through writing, I think that's how you get the most clarity.

and you got to keep doing it like every day a little bit a little bit you know 10 20 minutes a day you have a specific topic or if you just want a free write i think it's it's all it's all good yeah i agree i think there's something not just romantic about it but there's something about it that the way you like if you write something it feels different than thinking about it It's almost like when you write something, your body, it's like this. When you talk about it, it's a dream. When you envision it, it's possible. But when you schedule it, it becomes real.

And all day long, we're talking about it and thinking about it. But when you write it down, like you've actually transitioned the, you have translated vision into reality. Just by writing it down. I was going to say the exact same thing. It's the first step of making a thought real. because now it's there and hey someone could chance upon your note and then they they have the thought and then it's already being shared somehow so yeah it's exactly that yeah and also also it's said I don't know how true this is but when you and this is also where writing is better than typing

because when you're typing you're only using certain movements apparently when you're writing you're using more muscle movements in your hands and your arm and that is helping you create the neural pathway of the thing that you're writing about. Oh. And that's why they say that writing affirmations is also helpful. Because there's an example. I think I put in the book too. There was an interview with the creator of the Dilbert comic, Scott Adams, on Tim Ferriss's

podcast. And he said he uses affirmations, written affirmations as the secret to all his success. and he said there's nothing that he has tried to achieve through affirmations that hasn't happened. It's only happened not yet. So he literally, he decides he wants something. He writes it out in a sentence and he writes it at least 15 times by hand every single day. And perhaps there's something to that repetition of the words being manifested in a physical movement that maybe there's a connection there between the brain and the body that makes it stick. Yeah, I would agree.

It's like your body is giving your brain permission or your brain is giving your body permission to manifest it. Like you said, it's the first step in creating it. Like you've thought about it. Now it's on paper. Now you've got to do it. It's got to follow the instructions now. Yeah. So that's one tool.

There are basically two tools, I think, that are essential to anybody that's on this journey of betterment, if you want to call it that. Yeah. The writing. the other one breathing most people breathe wrong and i was in my whole life not knowing anything about the breathing people who are you know stressed out and anxious all the time they're not consciously aware of the fact that their breathing is contributing to that so when we breathe shallow and quick and shallow it actually triggers the flight or fight response in the body which is creating stressors. And so the key is to breathe deeper through the abdomen and longer and extend

the breath every time, a little more, a little more every time. And that's also going to keep you relaxed. And the more relaxed you are, the more your mind opens up. And then you can get rid of these thoughts that are just cluttering and not helping you. And you can allow the ideas that will help you to come in. So I'm really passionate about breathing as well. So I've got, I've got a long course on my website, and I've also got a free telegram group where I do once a week. I do a free breathing session. Yeah. Nice.

What does that look like? What, like if someone signed up for your free breathing course, can you walk us through what that would look like? Well, it's a group on the telegram app, and I just do a live 20, 30 minutes. Right now I'm just doing it once a week. Right. And all I have to, all they need to do is show up and lay down. It's super easy. No experience required.

And we usually, I usually do the Wim Hof technique. Sometimes I mix it up, but that's the easiest one to learn and one of the most effective ones. So we practice that. Yeah, it's amazing. That's amazing what, what affects you can see and how it can change the way you fundamentally think about yourself or just about life or just maybe just change the way you think by changing the breath you use.

And it goes back all the way to a lot of sacred texts they talk about breathing. Yeah. And there, people don't necessarily notice or may not believe this. But there are some breathing techniques out there that are just as good as a psychedelic drug. And I didn't believe it at first either. There is a technique called the holotropic breath that I think it was five years ago. I did it for the first time. And I went into it pretty skeptical.

But it's very powerful. really it's as intense too it's like three hours of breathing yeah that's what's that guy's name what's that that um Stan Groff Stan Groff yes yes I'm in his 80s now I'm sorry he's in his 80s now and he's I think he's still like doing sessions and traveling and talking it's got to be something to do with the breath you know they and I think that that's Rick Doblin's mentor the guy who pretty much runs maps. I think that that was his mentor back in the day. Yeah. Well, probably still is. It's, it's interesting. Here in Hawaii, we have, um, there's a, the Polynesian cultural center. And they had this, they have this ongoing sort of cultural play that they do. I don't think play is the

right word, but a presentation that they do. And it's called ha, the breath of life. And it's just amazing when you start thinking about how breath and breath work fundamentally run through, a lot of indigenous cultures and it's a huge part of a lot of different cultures but it's something that in the West we've decided isn't that important. It's weird how we've kind of gotten there.

There's another technique from Hawaii. The name's escaping me right now but it's sort of a meditation technique where they say to look at a certain part of the ceiling and expand your field of vision. It's like you're supposed to look slightly up like look at the I'm trying to do it right now on camera.

but it's like if you look ahead but you move your eyes sort of to maybe like seven-eighths of the way up the field of vision forward and then you expand it to the sides i have to look it up later but it's it's definitely Hawaiian in origin there's a Hawaiian word for that that's also a great way like a cool way to just relax your mind just you practice that and do it for a minute or two and it's already settles it it's very effective yeah that sounds like it i'm anxious to read more about that. I think there's, and that gets us back to the same way that writing helps you translate your vision into reality. You know, quieting your mind, be it through breath or through some sort of optic view, is another way of just training your mind to, to act as one. Like the body and mind working together in harmony, I think is a huge part of becoming a better view.

yeah that's i was i've been on the yoga path for a few years now and it's it's been really transformative for me in terms of reducing basically the quantity of thinking and i have way less clutter thoughts and what's the other thing is interesting actually is we're trying this if we tie this back into psychedelics yeah i've had this experience multiple times mainly on mushrooms where there's a there's a frequency of sound that is in line with what I'm thinking. And it's like when I'm thinking fearful, you know, sometimes during a trip, you might be afraid.

Yeah. And when I have a fearful thought, it's like here on the vibrational scale. And then as I change it to maybe happiness, it goes up. It gets higher in pitch. And then if I'm feeling love and joy, it gets even high, like very high. But the highest was no thinking. which I found very interesting. So the combination of, well, it could be other drugs,

but magic mushrooms and meditation is very interesting. So I've done that before. I just take mushrooms and I just meditate for like two hours. And I have that experience. And there's a guy, I don't remember his name. I think is something Osborne, something James Osborne maybe. I don't know if he's still doing this, but he used to host retreats in Jamaica.

And I think his website is called Myco Meditation. And he does exactly this because in Jamaica, mushrooms are illegal. So he invites people down there for a few days or a week in groups to do that, to meditate on mushrooms. Wow. Yeah, but you, it's incredibly rewarding. I think there's something to be said about vibrations and thought and sound.

And I don't have the book in front of me, but I think there's multiple authors who have wrote about the world as vibration. and if we can see I got this cool magnet that's like a rare earth neodymium magnet super powerful and you can hold up like a

a green I have a green magnetic sheet and you can kind of see the waves on it and I always thought to myself what if I got really just took a huge dose of mushrooms and if we if if a lot of the scientists who claim that everything is vibration

might it be possible to see those vibrations because it seemed like your eyes get so dilated the pupils become so big sometimes on mushrooms that you're open to so much and that's what gives you the idea of things breathing right like if the floor is breathing or a tree is breathing and it's kind of coming in and out yeah yeah right is that is that an illusion or is are you seeing more of the world around you because you have more light coming in so my thought was if i could what if I could just hold up this green sheet and look through it and see things vibrating? Maybe that's what you see when you're high on mushroom. It's like you see the vibrations because it's when you see things breathing,

be it the room, a tree, a dog or your hand. Like that's a vibration, right? It's like it's vibrating at a slower level. So maybe you're seeing the vibrations when you're in an altered state of consciousness. And if that's true, might the sound, might you be able to harmonize the sound, with that vibration, and that would also put you in some sort of a flow state, I would think, if you could harmonize all three of them. Yeah, and I often wonder if when we see things fluctuate and vibrate,

if that isn't the natural state for also the reason that that's what physics says it is. Actually, there is no fixed place of things, right? That's just all like a probability field. So maybe it's kind of hinting like, oh, it might be here. It might be a little bit over there. It might be slightly over here. Yeah. It's a weird concept.

Yeah, the more that I think about it, the more that that makes sense. Like, you know, when you, if we consider the default mode network the way in which the brain operates and then we take that offline, you're getting raw sensory data coming in. So why wouldn't you see things moving around? Instead of having that stabilization at the back of your brain turned on, we turn that off. Now you're just getting the raw feed coming in. So maybe those are the vibrations you're saying. Maybe that's why you, when you're on mushrooms, maybe that's, obviously that's why you are taking stuff from the visual cortex and processing it in Broca's area, or you're processing,

you know, sound in the visual cortex. So you are getting a rod data. At least it seems to me, I'm not, obviously I'm not a scientist. I'm a huge fan of psychedelic drugs, and I'm a huge fan of experimenting with psychedelic drugs, which brings me to this topic. I've recently been trying this experiment where if you're going to take mushrooms, I highly recommend taking like HGH with it, like a human growth hormone with it. I found that it not only enhances the trip, it gives you at least to me subjectively.

And I don't thoroughly know how to prove this, so it's all subjective. But I think it increases the overall sense of not only well-being, but it helps to strengthen those already new forming neural networks that you get by taking magic mushrooms. And what I mean by that to be clear is when you take magic mushrooms, you are building new processing pathways, new neural connections in your brain that don't normally work the way they do when you're not on mushrooms. And so if that is true, I think taking a natural like a, like something like a MKK. 677, which is a, it's one of these, it's not a pro hormone, but it's a, it's sort of like a pro hormone. I'll put it in the show notes down there, but when you take those two things together, I think it helps to continue to build those neural networks even stronger, faster, and longer

lasting. So if anybody out there is, is a tinkerer or someone that is responsible and uses mushrooms, I would highly recommend trying it with a human growth hormone, something that helps to release that human growth hormone inside when you do it. It's a pretty good experiment. That's real interesting. What about the timing of it? Like, when do you take one or the other? It's a great question.

So I have found that, so I think it's called, okay, so, yeah, it's MK. I'll put the exact thing in there because it kind of bothers me that I can't think of the exact name of the stuff I'm taking. But I think it's MK677. But I'll get that down there. I have found that according to my research, when you growth hormone is secreted at nighttime. However, this particular analog, it takes about an hour to kick in and it's sublingual. So I'll take like maybe 15 milligrams and I'll put it underneath my tongue. And you'll start to feel like a little bit of a bump, like a little bit of just.

feeling a little bit better, a little smoother, and then about two hours in, you might get kind of hungry. So I would say about a 15 to 30 minute onset before it gets into your bloodstream, and anything you're going to take sublingual, I think, is relatively about 30 minutes. And the half-life on that is, it's long. It's like, I think, nine, 10 hours. So you just need one dose. And I think that I take it about two hours before I'll take the mushrooms. And I can see a difference. If I look at my journal, I can see a difference between taking it earlier and later. If you take it past, you know, if you're taking a pretty good dose of mushrooms and then you take something an hour into it, it's very difficult to find out, you know, because you're going to be, if you take

something about three hours and you're going to be peaking and you're like, it's kind of hard to tell what's going on here. So I recommend taking it an hour before, maybe two hours before. I wonder if also simply fasting might have a similar effect. I was definitely. You study fasting, right? It does bump human growth hormone after 18 hours to 24 hours. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I was just thinking fasting as a means of dieting to take it,

but I didn't realize that fasting caused HGH to be secreted. Yeah, there's a really cool guy on YouTube that talks about fasting a lot. His name is Dr. Sten Eckberg. I've learned a lot from him, and he goes through that in detail. And I think it's about the 18-hour mark of fasting, where HGH really starts to ramp up at like doubles in production at least. So that maybe that plus, then you take that little bit and then, wow, that could be pretty good. Where do you get the oral HGH in the U.S.?

I was getting it from a site called Science Bio. However, no description. You can just order it. Yeah, it's a SARM. It's a selective androgen receptor. And they're kind of in a gray area for. for supplements. There's clearly for anybody listening to this,

like look up SARMs and like I'm not giving advice for people to go do this or whatever, but it can be done. You know, I'm not saying you have to do this. But if you are going to do it, do your best research. They're called SARMs.

I have found the bodybuilding community. If you go into a bodybuilding site, like those guys are the ultimate tinkerers and the ultimate people who are just telling you, I'm taking these 25 things. Here's what it looks like. The bodybuilding community is hands down the most influential and the craziest and the strongest and the most knowledgeable when it comes to self-hacking with supplements, at least in my opinion.

And you can go on to bodybuilding.com, bodybuilding format, and read posts and posts and forums of people, and they post their, I'm taking these five things. But SARMs is something that bodybuilding community has been taken for years. I think they're much safer than any kind of steroid. and if you look up SARMs, they're pretty much wide open. It's a gray market, so you would want to look for something with five stars or have someone recommend one to you. But, yeah, there's no need for prescription,

and there's no need for going to a doctor or having anything like that. So they're readily available. Oh, cool. Yeah, I'm going to look into that as well. Yeah, I think it's a great. I think it's, I was, you know, on LinkedIn, you can go and you can find all these people that are, you know, starting to do these new studies. And on some levels, I think me talking about taking growth hormone with psychedelics would turn

some people off. However, I do think that it would speed up the potential remedies for stuff like PTSD. And they're already having great, they're seeing great progress with this stuff. But I think adding a growth hormone into that regimen would greatly increase the positive results that people, practitioners, and or tinkerers and self-hackers are having. If you just read up on the literature on growth hormone, it's something that guys and women, it's radically almost depleted out of your body by the age of 50. You know, it's such a small amount you have. And it's just, it's, it is almost like a wonder drug. So if you add that with the the properties, the healing properties of psilocybin, I think you're going to see a one-two punch and you'll be able to radically achieve that which it is you're trying to achieve.

At least it has for me. And I would recommend other people look into it and, you know, it can easily be done. They're doing all the studies with psilocybin and placebos. Why not just add a third category with, you know, 15 milligrams of HGH in there? And if you're at John Hopkins, you don't need to take a, you know, you don't need to take a SARM that you got from Bodybuilding.com. I'm pretty sure that you can just get a shot of something that was made at a lab in your hospital. And you could monitor it.

And it's probably going to help a lot of people. The drug companies find out like it. The possibilities there for research are really exciting now that it's starting to open up and be a little bit more accepted to study these things. I'm excited for what they discover. you know maybe it's another thing we haven't even heard about that even has even better effects yeah i think so we don't shut it down because yeah like there's no money in it and that's a problem yeah it's interesting to see to see sort of the new battles taking part across old lines and what i mean by that is you know

it seems to me that in the past it was causing problems for for drug companies because they didn't really know how to make money from it. And you can still kind of see that today. Like you see some people trying to patent certain analogs or you see people trying to patent stuff like, oh, this, I'm going to patent set and setting. You can't patent set and setting. But what do you see on the front lines of the psychedelic marketplace happening? What are some of the, the good things you see and some of maybe the fault lines. Can we come back to that? I'm going to switch Wi-Fi, I think.

Absolutely. Well on. All right. So we got Kevin coming back here, switching Wi-Fi a little bit. We're talking about the different ways in which the psychedelic community has changed, what could be changing on the horizon, and what things are still the same about it. It seems to me that there are a lot of new battles being drawn. It seems to me that there is a whole lot of potential for positive outcomes coming up.

There we go. I'm back. Sorry, I was on the wrong Wi-Fi. At a certain hour, it's shared, so it gets busy, and I forgot to put it on the other one. So I just said the switch. It should be good now. Yeah, no worries, man. No worries.

We were just talking about the possible pitfalls and the possible great opportunities coming from the world of psychedelics. I hope they don't try to pattern everything. Like every strain of silo cylisidon is going to be owned by Pfizer at some point. And you don't get it anywhere. Well, I guess as long as you can get it, I don't care that much. I just want people to have access to it. And if this is a fucked up way we go about doing it and having it distributed to somebody and they make more money on it and at least it becomes available, I don't know.

I'm not happy with it, but it's better than the current scenario. Yeah. I agree. I've seen some interesting people talking about how, you know, I'm of the opinion that there's two spheres of people. There's people that are really messed. I think everybody could benefit from it. I think the majority of people could benefit from it. I think that there's people that have really deep-seated psychological problems. And then there's a lot of people that have a lot of other problems. But maybe there's a, maybe there is a branch of people that need to sit down with a psychiatrist or a psychologist and have somebody there with them while they take it so that they

don't hurt themselves so they don't freak out. And maybe those people need to have someone with them every time they take it. But I think the majority of people should be taught maybe once you sit with somebody or maybe once you take it with somebody and you have someone explain, hey, here's how I think about it or here's what I do about it or here's how I do it. Someone should be shown the experience and then weaned off having someone be there because I think that the real work gets done when you're comfortable asking yourself difficult questions or you're comfortable confronting the questions that you're scared about. And I think that that's done by facing your own demon.

So I'm worried about the way some people are patenting the process of like, okay, and you're going to take these mushrooms. You must come in. You must sit in this chair with these doctors and you must be here with these people. It's almost like they're trying to force down a form of a process. It's not so much, it's trying to force you into this process. And when they force you into a process, they force you into seeing it a different way. What do you think about that?

Well, I think that's one of the problems they have in the research as well is because they, in one hand, they know that the setting is super important. And from the other hand, how do you research it without having a clinician-type setting with doctors and coats and feeling like you're not at home? So I think that's one of the challenges they haven't quite figured out is get the setting right to produce optimal results. And they've got really good results, but I think results would be even better if they allowed a person to choose their environment where they felt the most comfortable, like staying at home maybe and having the therapist come to their house and do it there. And I also agree that a lot of the, some of the deeper work has come when I've done it by myself. But depending on the psychedelic and the process we're talking about, there is a huge benefit to groups. And every time I've done ayahuasca, it's with groups.

And I think there are multiple reasons for this. And the first one is that a lot of our healing or wounds comes from relationships. and therefore a lot of the healing can also be found through relating with others. And I've had this experience every time I've been in an ayahuasca ceremony where after it's over, I got a lot of the insights from talking to other people there. And it just seemed like I always selected the right person to talk to, and that person had some experience or a point of view that related very directly to whatever I was dealing with. And I got a lot of benefit out of those interactions.

And then a lot of the healing and learning would actually happen. The ceremony itself, you don't really learn that much in ayahuasca. It's actually in the days and weeks that follow, because you have this heightened awareness and sensitivity to your environment and to your people, that's when I actually got the most benefit out of it. So yeah, there's definitely, I think both are valid, but I share the concern that you have in that they're going to say, know it has to be this way and they're going to close themselves off again as they tend to do

when they get in that real specialized track they sort of start ignoring the other angles yeah that's a great point i've i've never done iowasca i am i have both plants at my house and i've attempted to make it i always try to make it on my birthday however my my ability to do so has not yet panned out And I'm hoping it's like a it's like making your own lightsaber for in my mind. I'm like, okay, I'm going to do it when I can make it. But apparently I don't have what it takes to make it yet. But when I do, that'll be when it's right to take for me. Right.

It's interesting to think about how some of the revelations and healing has come from a group because it is the group that maybe caused the trauma. Can you share maybe like one of the insights you've got from somebody you spoke to after the ceremony? well interestingly what just came to mind is the last I think this is the last time I did it which was four years ago now and I did it right after my wife left me like a week later so I was pretty raw I mean I think it ended in April and I went there May 6th or something and it was three days and um after the last day I was walking around the grounds and I walked to a stream or something and I this woman accompanied me and she said she said something like yeah she had some huge heartbreak um 10 years earlier and she said I realized in this weekend

that I've closed myself off since then and I have not wanted to open myself up to anybody truly for over 10 years now and I like I've just wasted all that time because I have haven't done that. And I was like, oh, well, that's really good for me to hear right now. Because that's obviously something that a lot of people do when they go through divorce or that bad breakup is it just wall themselves off and, you know, don't want to be hurt again. So that's just one example of just a random conversation I would have that applied directly to my scenario. Yeah. And especially in the state you were in of healing or being open to hearing suggestions. Like that probably saved you 10 years of trying to figure out, you know, maybe two,

maybe four, maybe even if it saved you like six months, it's incredible advice or maybe it saved you a lifetime. It's hard, it's hard to say. And it gets weird when you start thinking about how all of the things we see is one thing and that everything out there is really an extension of us. And then now you're having to have this experience and then someone is like providing me the answer to a question, but it's coming from another person. person, but really it's me. So you go in this strange loop like that. It's kind of trippy.

Yeah. Like, who's to say that that wasn't part of the ayahuasca experience? You know what I mean? Or the world in general. The world is maybe all of the world is there to give you feedback. Yeah, it's all you. Everybody you see, it's just a different version of you seeing itself in a different way. Right?

I've heard a couple different quotes that deal with like that. one of them was God sees the world through your eyes, so show him a good time. Or I've heard Alan Watts say stuff like he used to keep this picture of or the statue of Shiva. And he said every time he would go to the door, he would like look at this picture and start laughing because he knew that every person that he sees is just himself seeing the other through a different set of eyes. And if you think about the world like that, if you think about your daughter or your friend or your wife, or your coworker or whoever it is or the stranger on the street, that's just a different version of you. It's just a different version of the universe.

Like you're all the same thing having a different experience so that we can all learn what's happening out there. It's a fascinating concept to think about to kind of stretch your brain. Yeah, I was thinking the other day, something I read, and they mentioned the idea that all of this is just for God's entertainment. So insert whatever word you want, replace God with the universe or whatever you want to believe. But the idea there is that there's something that made this all exist. And it's a perfect being with perfect knowledge and perfect information.

What happens if you have perfect knowledge and perfect information? Well, you get bored because you always know all the time what's happening. So the only way that the creator solved this problem is by taking pieces of its consciousness and form it into the importance. perfect being that is human. And so the human goes around with its dramas and its emotions and its imperfect knowledge and thereby entertaining the creator through extension of its people that it made. I think that's kind of funny. Yeah. I think it's a and the more you think about the idea, the more it expands and the more it helps you see the world. Like it actually helps you see the world through other people's eyes.

It actually helps you have more empathy. And I think you can relate. Like if you can't, you probably can't understand what it's like to be another race, but you can't understand what it's like to go through trauma. And then you can think to yourself this other person, regardless of their gender and race has been through trauma. And then you can find that bridge of like, well, I bet you we both feel like this, you know.

And it's just a good bridge to have. And it's a good philosophy. to see the world through. I have another question here that says, do you feel that medical marijuana has the same effects as mushrooms? What do you think about that, Kevin? Definitely not. Yeah.

I don't want to discredit medical marijuana. I think marijuana is great too. Yeah. The closest you can get is with the edibles. Yeah. And I'm real happy that that's legal now in parts of the world. Because my experience with edibles before that, I found it's very difficult to get the dose right. Yeah.

I usually got it wrong and took too much. And while too much edible is still can be very insightful and profound, it's also terrible. There's a lot of anxiety that comes and fear of death and things like that. But now, because it's legal, they can they can dose it out and they can tell you exactly what's in each one. They've got different sizes so you can start with the small one, try it out, and then it's a lot better for the user that way. So yeah, with those, you can have some pretty deep experiences that are close to a magic mushroom, I believe. Yeah, I look at it like a journey. And, you know, if you just, if we get back to the nomenclature and the words we use, people talk about getting high.

And if you think about all the drugs as like foothills next to a mountain, like I think when you're on mushrooms, like you're pretty high up on the peak and you're looking down and you're seeing this crazy view of things. And when you eat, when you eat edible medical marijuana or you just eat some weed or you smoke some weed, you're like on a different foothill. You know, so you're getting a different view. You're still high. You're still seeing things from up above. you're still seeing a different angle, but it's not the same peak as this one over here. And that's probably the same with different, you know, I've never done ketamine, but I've done like ecstasy and tried some other types of drugs.

And I think all of them provide you with a different view from a different foothill. You know, some of them have a sheer face. You look down, you're like, oh, do I don't want to even be here, you know? Yeah. And there's other ones that have a nice rolling grassy hill and stuff like that. So I would say that medical marijuana does not have the same effects as mushroom. and for me in any way, shape, or form. I've seen stuff out of the corner of my eyes.

I'm a paranoid, but I've never had the hallucinations. I've never seen geometrical objects pop up in front of my open eyes on mushroom or on, when smoking weed or anything like that. But I do see those on this heavy mushroom trip. Yeah. Yeah, that was, I mean, your analogy of the peaks is pretty much a perfect analogy. It's just different angles, right? Yeah.

Yeah. And in a way, yeah. Go ahead, man. I was just going to say that that takes us back to different, us being part of one organism. The same way that different drugs provide us views from different peaks, people with different points of view provide us with similar different views. You know what I mean by that?

Like different peaks show you a different view. Other people's opinions of you show you a different view. But I had cut you off right there. What were you going to say? No, I was going to say anybody who's listening that wants to sort of to have this type of experience, but it's afraid to try anything. Seriously, breathwork, holotropic breathwork, try it out. It's just profound. The first time I went to it, so basically anyone who's not aware of this, we talked about it before, Stan Groff invented it, patented the term or whatever, but you do it in pairs. So you have a sitter and a breather, and each session is about three hours.

And I went into this thinking, this is nothing like psychedelics. I'm going to be disappointed. So I was a sitter first. We did have a coin flip. So my partner, his name was Jack. He was the breather. And so you're just really just making sure that the person's okay, that they don't need help or they have a nice experience. But that was sort of a trip in itself because while I was watching him, I got to see what else was happening in the room.

And there were about 20 pairs of people, maybe 25. And there was a woman next to me. It wasn't even five minutes into the session. She started screaming at the top of her lungs. Like, I'm serious, like as if someone was stabbing her, like screaming, screaming, screaming, and did it stop for over two hours? That was her whole session. And then I saw another guy, like two people away, going through this rage tantrum, like yelling into his pillow, screaming in his pillow, punching it.

And then there was another person where two facilitators had to hold them down because he was like his whole body was flailing all over the place violently. They had to hold him down pretty much the whole time. And this is the first time I've exposed to it. And I'm like, what the hell is going on here? Yeah, and they ended up, you don't really talk to people about their issues. It's not really that kind of like group therapy. It's very much personal.

You share what you want to share. So I didn't get to find out what it. exactly they were going through, but it brought up all kinds of trauma for these people. And not to scare anybody. When I did it, I had absolutely beautiful experience. I didn't experience any trauma, but you might. That's, it's really, it's really interesting. So check it out if you're all curious about that.

Yeah, that's, that's fascinating. I've heard about it, but I have never, I have never experienced it. And you have a, you have a class that, the class that you do on breath work, that you provide people, that people can buy if they want, they, they, Is it, do you do some of the holotropic breathing or is it more the whim-off and just kind of getting the body ready for? Yeah, we don't go that. Yeah, we don't go that deep. It's pretty gentle.

It's more just to relax and maybe boost your energy and just to feel more grounded. It's only my class is more the yoga tradition anyway. We don't really do Wim-Off. It's just all the yoga pranayama. And I put into a course with like some physical techniques to warm up. And then it's also a 28-day meditation course built. in it. The weekly rhetoric is more Wim Hof because it's

quick and it's effective. But maybe in the future, I'll do a longer one, but to do holotropic properly, it's like a psychedelic. You need set, need setting, you need the right music, you need people around you to help. Because if I had a group of 10 people and one of them's freaking out and

flailing, like I'm not going to be able to really help everybody. So I need some helpers to assist. That's more of a production. Yeah. I wonder, have you, have you any experience with like hypnotism? Yes, a little bit. Go ahead.

Apparently you have, right? No, I haven't. I was just talking about the psychedelic experience and talking about alternate states of consciousness and language. It just popped in my mind. Like, well, that's kind of an interesting side turn. So I thought I would just ask you. Yeah. Not a lot, but I've been to some events and some workshops on.

I think I lost you there for a second. Let's see. Let's see where we at. We lost him here, ladies and gentlemen, but he'll be right back. Let's see if we can readjust this here. Yeah, see. So let's come here to settings. All right. We lost him, but he'll be right back, ladies and gentlemen. We were just getting to the idea of the way in which language can fundamentally change the way you think, be it your inner dialogue or be it the conversation you're having with other. the people. Have you ever had the experience where you sat down and you've had an incredible conversation and you leave that conversation feeling as if you're fulfilled, feeling as if you've

accomplished something and having an all around good feeling about who you are and what just happened? I think that stems from the words you use, the eye contact, and all the language that you use. Think about the way you've expressed yourself to other people. Think about the way you talk about yourself in your own head. Like that is a form, in my opinion, that is a form of hypnosis. That is a form of changing the way, changing the world around it, changing the entire way you see before. No, that's all right.

Am I back? This is the real major downfall of Bali is the internet. Like, I just haven't found a great solution still over a year. It's just, I don't know. I wish I could take all the things that Bali has with good internet. I think that's the problem with everywhere. You know, it's 90% awesome and 10% what are you going to do? Yeah.

My mom's got great in her house. I was loving it while I was there. Perfect. No problem. Yeah. Yeah. But it's not Bali. You know, it's New York. It's as far as from Bali you can get.

What are you talking about? I would take it. We were talking about the idea of hypnotism and experience with it. Okay, so I don't have a lot of experience here. Just talk about what I have experience. So one thing is that only like 80% of people can be hypnotized. So there's a certain percent that just no matter what won't. So that's why it's not as a solution for everybody.

But I did some tests and it turns out I'm like me. hypnotizable. You want to rank it from one to ten. I'm like it's five or six. And we've done a few small things. Like there was, I don't know if I can demonstrate this. But this guy took, so he started by drawing a circle like this. And then inside the circle, he drew a smaller circle. And then what he did is he put this flat on the table and he took a pencil or no, I took a paper clip. and he dangled it from a string from his hand such that the paper clip was about center with the small circle. And then he'll have you hold this. So I was holding it. And then he started like, and he said from the beginning, he said, don't move your hand. So my hand is dangled above this thing trying to keep it straight. And then he started talking to me.

And the whole time I'm concentrating on my hand and trying not to move it. But he's given me instructions to rotate it clockwise. And then after a few moments, it was rotating clockwise. But to my vision, my hand was not moving. Like I was trying so hard not to make it move. And then he's like, oh, now it's rotating faster. And then it went faster. And he's like, and now it's going the other way.

And now it's going the other way. So he was doing something to my mind against my will at that level. because I was doing what he was saying, although I was trying not to. And I also went to another workshop with, I don't know if it's hypnosis or NLP, but there was a sort of, it was like teaching you how to get into a trance

and induct people into a trance. And it's hard to explain. It's similar to a deep meditative state. And there are apparently language patterns that you can use to trigger that. And we did, that we and we did it to each other with little to know. It was only a day workshop and he introduced it. And like by the afternoon, we were putting each other into trance with no prior experience.

So it's something that anyone can do. Some people are better out of than others, but anyone can do it if you just follow this language pattern. And it's also about, it's about the language you use and about the spacing of the words as well. So you have like a sort of hypnotic way to deliver it. And I found it fascinating. I know very little about it. I'm keen to learn more someday. It's on my bucket list to do hypnosis training. It's very interesting. Yeah.

I find it amazing too. When you spoke about it like that, I see a pattern and perhaps that's what it is. If you choose to use a certain sequence of words and a certain pattern, then people will begin to follow. the words you say. They can also do that with like video games where or even some sort of media where they're

flashing the light like a like a like white light, white light, white light. And they use their language at the same time as the light goes. It's a frequency following mechanism and you fall into rhythm. And it, I believe that your language is almost like a heartbeat. That that's, you ever heard that song Staying Alive? Dun, dun, like that. Staying alive. Staying alive.

Yeah, the Bee Gs. So the bass line in there is the same as a heartbeat. And they theorize like that's why that's why that song hit number one so fast. And that's why it was so catchy. People didn't realize, but it was harmonizing with an adult heartbeat. And I think to this day you can see different producers following that same beat. So most songs that are like that have some sort of, you know,

rhythm to them that aligns with our body. And it's almost like a trance. the same way that drum circles can put you in a trance, the same way beats you or dancing. Or dancing, right. Yeah, it's almost like we're set up to be people that can be in a trance like that, especially in groups, it seems like. Yeah, that's a huge component of the tantra school of spirituality is trance

and using dance actually to enter trance-like states. Again, it's not something I know a lot about, but I went to a four-day tantra festival. and it had nothing new with sex for you guys thinking you're an orgy. No, I wasn't in an orgy. No, but there was, like, every day there was dancing. And that it's just fun. I mean, if you can get into it after a while, after a few minutes,

the shyness goes away and you're just sort of flowing with it. It is, your mind gets taken out of it, of the equation after a time. Do you think that's what happened on Epstein Island? No. I have a lot of things. I don't know if you want to go into that. Yeah. But it's a big thing in Ubud, the town of Bali.

They've got what they call ecstatic dance. And it's not, they have ecstatic dance over the world, but it's real popular here. And they have it every Friday and Sunday. And it's just like impossible to get tickets now. People love it. It's sold out a month in advance because they just, it's fun. I've been a few times. It's really good.

Yeah, it seems like a different state and a different way to observe yourself and the people and the environment. It sounds like an awesome way to kind of decompress and get back to nature. Yeah, primal. Yeah, there's something to be set up. You just come and you dance however you want. Some people don't even dance. They sit on the floor. They roll around.

You know, everything's cool. There's no talking. Strict, no talking, possible. No phones. Yeah. Man, that sounds like a, in some ways, it kind of sounds like a rave. You know, if you take enough of something, you can't talk. Yeah.

Yeah. They say no drugs, too. I don't know if people follow that, but you're not supposed to take any. Yeah. No drugs. It's like its own drug. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's fun, really. It sounds like it. What, um, let's talk about Epstein Island. What do you got on that? Anything good? What do you think?

Uh, a piece, interesting piece of information I have on it, which I don't think I've seen discussed to, to extensively anywhere. Let's, let's hear it. So here's the back. backgrounds. We've discussed before about Freemasonry. So there is a, there is an organization that is, I think, derived from Freemasonry, but has no official or otherwise association links with Freemasonry. I forget the exact name. The abbreviation is OTO.

It's called something like Ordu, Templess, or Dentis. right um the only tie to freemasonry that i could see about it i did a little bit of research and i found this on wikipedia actually it's not even a secret so on wikipedia i was reading about o'tio and they have a degrees system like freemasonry does and that seems to be the only connection to freemasonry so you enter and you have a certain title maybe it's acolyte and then there are maybe six or nine degrees and then the next level is mystic and then it's like supreme mystic or whatever i forget what the titles are but the higher levels and this is according to wikipedia i don't know it's true but the higher levels of oTO are said to involve sexual techniques and um there's like specific like anal sex techniques

is what you learn being a member of this organization and to ascend this level you have to drink a concoction of, I don't know if it's semen mixed with period blood or something of that nature. It's like a male and female liquid energy that you mix in order to get to that level. All right. So that's all I know about OTO.

This is the way it ties into Epstein. I heard on a podcast somewhere that on Epstein Islands, there is a temple for OTO. And you can see this from the neighboring island. apparently it's a big temple and you can see with your your own eyes all right so there's an o'tio temple allegedly on ebstein island there's another thing that's interesting do you remember in 2016 the um the john podesta emails yeah the clinton campaign okay so these emails were leaked from

john podesta who was i believe bill clinton's chief of staff while he was president and him and his brother had a firm that did DC Beltway political consulting. So when we found out that basically the Democrats sabotaged Bernie Sanders in the Democratic primary, there was this hack of a lot of information and they got all the John Fidesta's emails. In one of those emails, they describe a ceremony that they held at their home that the Clintons were, I guess, part of. And the ceremony was hosted by a woman named Maria Abramovich, I think is her name. And they called the ceremony spirit cooking. And in this ceremony, they did similar things.

Like they had a vial of a liquid that was supposed to symbolize semen and menstrual blood. They had an exhibit of a baby covered in blood. And they had all this strange sort of quasi-sexual demise. symbolism all throughout their house. And they called this spirit cooking. And it can't remember it came out and nobody even denied it. They're like, hey, Clinton's pedestas, you were doing spirit cooking. And they're like, yeah, we were.

I mean, no big deal. And of course, they all have deep ties to Epstein. So you're like, what the hell is going on with these people? And I have no conclusion other than that. I found that interesting. Yeah. Yeah. So I've read a little bit about OTO.

And I think it was the Alistair Crowley back in the day. This guy was, right, he called himself Satan himself. And he's got some interesting ties to all kinds of government agencies. Along with part of his OTO, I forgot the, there was a really incredibly intelligent, forward-thinking guy who came up with all kinds of technology. I want to say the Parsons, but I'm not Jack Parson maybe. Is that or is that?

That might have, I think it may have been something like that. But he took part in all of Alistair Crowley's quote-unquote ceremonies. And the idea of OTO and drinking blood and, you know, the esoteric spiritual calling up of demons and death and destruction and this idea that. I think Alasher Crowley's tagline was do what thou will, regardless, because there's no good, there's no evil. There's only that which you will do. Yeah. Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. That's a philosophy of telema, which I guess he'll be.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's fascinating to think about what the heck people were doing. Even some of the Sabatini Frankist, which were, was a offshoot of the. the Jewish religion had a lot of interesting ideas about bringing forth powers from beyond. I don't know if they're dark or light, but there's just so much esoteric ideas about bringing into this world, knowledge that is not from this world or that you can get from spiritual highs. And there's all kinds of sex magic stories about people just doing all these,

crazy acts and like i i i i could see all that happening yeah how's that guy getting crushed for 45 million dollars man no they're just i don't not i'm not i'm not only in agreement with the logger says but you know you got to be able to let people talk even if they want to say like it's your right to say crazy shit but i feel like yeah they're just i don't know why they want i understand why they want to take them down but i don't think it's it should be happening It's not a good precedent. Yeah. Like, and it just makes me think, like, the more that they try to kill him, the more

that it makes me think he's right. Like, if someone says something dumb or stupid, like, who cares? Like, that, no one believes that. But the fact you start targeting someone so hard. Yeah. Yeah. There was some interesting stuff. Same thing with the censorship.

Yeah. Like, why do you censored if it's not true? Yeah. I think it was a, there's a great book. Do I have it right here in front of me? I don't have it in front of me, but it's, it's, oh, I do have it in front of me. It's right here. It's called, I don't know if people can see this.

It's called when Google met WikiLeaks. I'm sorry, when, yeah, when Google met WikiLeaks. And it's the story of the, what's that guy's name? Who is the CEO of Google? That guy's name is, gosh, John, I can't think of this. Eric Schmidt. Eric Schmidt. Eric Schmidt goes to meet Julian Assange in the Ecuador.

Was it Ecuador that first gave him safe harbor? Yeah. Okay. So he goes over there to meet Julian Assange and like, you know, they have, like there's so much. Everybody should pick up this book. It's really fun to read and it's amazing. And it gives you insight. It's written from Julian Assange's point of view.

And like it's just these two masterminds like battling in this. game of chess. And, you know, in one part of it, they begin talking about censorship. And the Google CEO was like, you know, Google is pretty much the world's mind. And we have the ability, we're trying to make the world better. You know, we have the ability to put out the information that needs to get out. And, you know, you may think it's censorship. But what we're doing, Julian, is the antithesis of what you're doing.

Like you're causing problems. And, you know, you maybe you see this is censorship, but we see it as strength. And Julia Assange just tells them like, well, see, this is the difference between guys like me and guys like you. See, you think that censorship and you think that putting the right words out there is a sign of strength. But anybody who knows anything. And he said it like, the way I read it was like super condescending. Like he just crushed him. He's like, well, you see, censorship is actually like a really is a form that I celebrate.

He's like, I'm glad that you're censoring people. That shows me how weak you are. That shows me how sad Google is that they can't even have a dissenting voice because they're so afraid they'll be crushed. Like, I'm nobody. My organization is nothing. You just told me you pretty much rule the world. And then in the next sentence, you showed me how scared you were by talking about censorship.

And he goes on to talk about how people should be thankful that there's censorship because that truly shows that the people and positions of authority are weak and they're cowards. and that they're so fragile that anybody can hurt them. That's why they must censor them. You know, and it was like an idea I had never heard about when he just started talking about celebrating censorship and that it means you've almost cracked the very foundation on which the power structure exists.

And I was like, dude, Julian's sign is amazing. Like, listen to this guy. And there's another guy that's being persecuted, like Alex, or like any sort of truth teller. Like, it just goes to back up what he said. That's how afraid they are. Like, I guess we should, I should try to give you an example of who I think they are. I would say that the existing power structure, like the

Atlantic Council, the World Economic Forum, the Council on Foreign Relations, you know, the heads, the CEOs of the Fortune 500 companies, the people that make decisions regardless of which nation state they claim to be from, the interlocking boards of directors, the people that own all the important land and have all the important decisions. Like, they are in a position where they can be taken down by an organization like Wikileaks. And that's why you see someone being so, it's weird to see such a political prisoner in today's day and age. You know, it's,

it's mind-blowing to me. Yeah. It was disappointing when, it was disappointing to me when, when, uh, Trump didn't pardon them. Yeah.

Because Trump had this thing like, oh, I'm going to take down the, the, the, the deep state and stuff like that. And, uh,

I don't know, I don't necessarily like him, but I like that idea. And he has, had a golden opportunity to do something there. You could have pardon both of them and he didn't take it. So I don't know. I think that's like an important, for the U.S.,

important topic of discussion, especially got like Snowden, where he's doing, like he's showing you what's really happening behind the scenes. And we're not supposed to know that, obviously. And there's just this, it's still, the left talks about a lot, the patriarchy. There still is this patriarchy, right? There's people that think they should have the information and no one else should. And to some extent, I agree with that sentiment. There's a lot of on the left I don't agree with,

but I do agree with the sentiment that we need to do something about these power structures. Yeah. And I don't know what the answer is because you're not going to change the structure from within. So what options do you have left? Like, none of them are good. I think that's where we find ourselves right now. I think that the world as we know it, I think that the majority of people are operating under the idea that we live in a nation state.

But that's not really the case. Like I think that the city you live in is like its own little kingdom. You know, that you've seen the birth of these so-called city states like San Francisco is its own state. New York is its own state. Hawaii is its own power structure. And this idea that we're one, I'll just speak specifically of the United States, this idea that we are a nation, it sounds good to people. And kids have been taught that their whole life,

but that's not the way it operates. Like there's nothing really holding us together except the belief that we are together. And the monetary system has begun to fail. And so you're just seeing people, print the only answer is to print more money the only answer is to throw money at the problem now and yeah i think people in positions of authority go like look we can't keep doing this and other people are like well that's our only option what else are we going to do and and you know you're seeing it and that's why there's this divide that's why there's BLM versus the white christians and that's why there's

gay versus straight like that's why the propaganda is so heavy on division because god forbid people see it as the patriarchy or the 1% or the ruling class, however you want to say those terms, there's us and there's them, and them are scared. That's what I think is going on. And that's why Alex Jones is getting crushed. Julian Assange is getting crushed.

Barron Brown is getting crushed. Like Edward Snowden's getting crushed. All these people represent different sectors of our planet, but they're all preaching the same thing. Like, hey, it's this small group up here that's stealing everything from everybody and they don't want you to know about it. Yeah. It seems taking a huge timeline, looking at the timeline of humanity, it seems to be the main problem or the main challenge seems to be how do we expand the in-group while maintaining sovereignty on a personal level?

Because you touched on it. Like all of our conflicts are us versus them. Yep. And there's this idea going out there that we need to abolish the nation state. so that we have humanity on a human level, and we don't identify ourselves with this country or that country. We're all people. We're all humanity.

So how do we expand the in-group to encompass all humanity and all beliefs without what I view would be a very oppressive regime at the top of that controlling the world? How do we get the leaders, the authorities, into that same in-group? that seems to be the major challenge for humans. Because as long as we have a leadership, it's not going to happen.

Yeah. Yeah. I got a couple of thoughts on that. And I want to share an exercise that I do in my mind because sometimes I find myself going down this road of us and them. And I know it's not healthy. So what I always do for myself is I'll start thinking like, oh, it's these guys that do it.

You know what? These guys have all the money. They got all the power. Probably come from a rich family. They've had everything given to them. You know, just go down this rabbit hole of like making excuses. And then I think about me and I'm like, well, you know what? I'm the guy that has all the money. If I compared myself to someone in the third world, I would be the guy I'm complaining about. So it does me no real good to complain about these people when in fact I'm that person.

So that kind of pulls me back from the us and them argument. And I look at us in a transition period. And maybe this happens all the time. And maybe this is the point societies get to before they either fall or they take the next step. And it seems to me we're seeing signs of the next step. And that next step is decentralization. And it's not perfect. It's messy.

And there's winners and there's losers. But it at least allows for a meritocracy, at least it allows for a more merit-based idea of movement. of moving up the ladder. When there's no mobility, there is destruction. And it seems to me that what's been happening since the world has become industrialized is that we have changed men and women's birthrights. The birthright to learn, work hard,

and get lucky, and move up the social ladder. Like, that's everyone's birthright, regardless of what color, what race, what gender, regardless of where you're born at. If you work hard, you study, you sacrifice, and you get lucky, you should be able to move up high in the position of status because you're providing more value. You've sacrificed. You've worked hard. However, that's not the case.

Now there is this idea that your consumption habits define who you are. It's not how hard you work. It's not what you've studied. It's not what you're teaching. It's not what you value. it's purely your consumption habits that attribute to you your level of success. And what I mean by that is there can be some, like look at Paris Hilton's brother. Like this guy is, I don't know him, but he seems to me to be a dummy, like a big dummy who has all kinds of stuff.

But guess what? He's got billions of dollars. So he automatically has the status that that money lends him. Those are your consumption habits. He did nothing to earn that. He did nothing to get it. He was born with it. And I think if we can get to a world of decentralization, we get away from our consumption habits being that which lends us our place in the world.

Consumption habits is exactly what the foundation of capitalism and our world is based on. The more you consume, the more power you appear to have or the more actual power you have because you can buy things. But it doesn't necessarily correlate to who you are or what you are. And that gap, that's the wealth gap. The wealth gap is consumption. And consumption is a very poor driver and a very poor explanatory force of who we are. So I think we're getting, I think decentralization gets us away from the consumption patterns that define us. So I think that's how we do it.

How about that? I think that's one pillar. Okay. What else you got? I propose another pillar. Please. The spiritual awakening on a mass scale. Because all the things we talked about, the in and the out group, that's just ego. That's the persona. I identify with this belief system. I identify with this country or that country.

So as long as we have that, we're always going to have divide. And unfortunately, the powers, they've played. play on this all the time. So it's up to, no one's going to do this for us. No one's going to do it for you or for me. It's our individual goal to, I mean, it's a hard path, like to try to deconstruct your ego and start and stop identifying with all of the little things that define you, the character that is George or the character that is Kevin.

I mean, it takes a lot of work. But I think that's the only way we're going to see things in a more unified way without the constant us, us and theming of every. thing. I don't know how to do it without people putting the work other than dosing everybody with LSD at once. Or the aliens. The aliens come and then where it's a different out group. Yeah. Yeah. I think that the East and West each have a part to play. You know, I do. I think maybe the, you know, sometimes when I think of aliens, I think we're the aliens and like we just don't recognize

ourselves you know wouldn't it be right like you mentioned it last time you have that vision yeah like I really think that there's something there like just think about the word alien and the concept of alien like it's it's something that you can't recognize

it doesn't necessarily have to be out of this world isn't it weird how like we describe like aliens out of this world but then we also describe like a mushroom like whoa man it's out of this world world, you know, like. Or an illegal alien. That's an illegally acceptable term for a foreigner. An illegal alien!

That's so funny. I mean, in some ways, it's really funny to me. Like, yeah. Some forms will have it. That's some legal form. Like, they ask you for your alien status. Yeah. Martian.

Oh, Martian. Yeah. Like, I, what do you, have you ever heard this idea of technology as the alien? Are you familiar with that? No, please explain it. Okay. So there's this, there's this, idea that technology itself is the alien.

And if you think about technology in, let's say, the 40s, like a computer took up a whole warehouse. It was this giant vacuum tubes. And, you know, it was this, it was technology. It was this alien thing that had come to get to know us. And we began to study this alien. And we had it in a big cement box. And we figured this thing we're playing with it. And over the years, the alien is slow.

like consuming us. It's trying to get into us. It's like a parasite in a way. So, you know, we go from the huge vacuum tube and the in the concrete box and the Pentagon to like, hey, I'm a little friendlier. Now I'm going to sit right on your desk. Now I'm pretty close to you. You know, you start interfacing with you. You're like, I really like the way this thing helps me think a little bit different. Hey, this helps me see things different. And then a few years go by and you're like, hey, you know what? I got this, I got this cool phone in my hand. Well, smaller. It's in my pocket now. Now it's, it went from a warehouse to the desk to my pocket. And now it's like I pull it out.

And pretty soon now I got what, now I got what we call wearables. Now you have this little thing on your wrist. Hey, buddy, how's it going? You know? And all of a sudden, now there's like, hey, man, just take this pill. And it'll tell the hospital when you have a little problem with your vein. You know, and there's, Lord knows what's in the, you know, there's all this talk about there being graphene or there being certain things inside the, the vaccines or

There's all this talk about people getting a chip in you, you know? And like, you can make the case that technology or look at, look at neurolink. They want to put this thing inside your brain. Like the technology has gone from this animal because you could call it an animal if you were to use a fun metaphor. Look at this giant animal that we put in a cage and we're slowly getting it toward. It's almost like it's consuming us. And we think about that terminology again, how much time do your kids spend online consume? information. It's like the information becomes us. And so, you know, I think that maybe Philip

K. Dick had some ideas about technology as an alien or, you know, and why not? Like, look at the foundation of the movie, The Transformers, how like the AllSpark comes here, you know, and it's not like the idea hasn't been in the mind of science fiction writers before, which is, you know, you could argue that science fiction writers are the modern day fortune. tellers who are writing the future. You know, it's, so it's an interesting idea to think about technology as an alien and, you know, there's,

what about like all the UFOs inside crazy pictures of like the Renaissance pictures, you know, like the idea of technology's been around for a while. Yeah, the arc of the covenant was alien technology, right? You've heard that one. No, I haven't heard that one. Please share that with me.

No, I mean, I don't know much more than what I just said, but like there's, there's that theory that the arc, I guess in the arc people, if they were near it, they would get sick or something. They had problems. And so those areas, that was actually some kind of radioactive alien technology. And there's a place.

Graham Hancock talks about this. He said that he tried to find the modern trail of where the arc could be or could have gone. And he tracked it to a church in Ethiopia that practiced. that practices ancient Christianity that claim to have the ark and they're all blind and they don't let you, they don't let you in to see it.

Wow. So it is some, some radiation that fell from the sky. And maybe we actually benefited from that thing. Maybe we did get visited tens of thousands years ago by aliens and they gave us some technology. I mean, it's all in the realm of possibility.

Yeah. I was just, I had a funny thought earlier when you talk about the A.A. were like the more you start questioning and open your eyes of stuff, the more that the people you thought were previously crazy now start to make sense. Like I was thinking, hey, you know that guy, the Unabomber? Maybe he had a point. Or like the people, the Waco incident where they just tried to do an autonomous community,

you know, portrayed as villains and got killed. But hey, maybe they just wanted to form their own mini state apart from society. It was nothing wrong with that. Yeah. And all of those people were demonized. All those people were taken out. Like, why take out the crazy people? If you're going to take out the, if you're going to take out the, the, um, the Waco people, why you take out the Mormons? You know what's it? Like on one call wins in this one. Yeah, right? It's like, what, what were those people doing? You know, I, they had some ideas that were potentially dangerous. to the power structure and they had to be removed. Like, I'm a huge fit, like, technological slavery for people that are curious about Ted Kaczynski's work, it'll blow your mind, man.

It reads, like, that guy called the future. You know what? I think I have an excerpt I can just read real quickly that we're probably. I don't realize you made a shirt for your podcast. That's awesome. Yeah, thanks, man. I'll send you one. Yeah.

It's got the monkey. It's like, it's a monkey holding a human. skull. I like it. What's going on here? You know, I often wondered, I haven't gone back to research the people

that Kaczynski was sending letters to. You know, I know that he was sending... There were professors and stuff, right? Like technology professors? I think so, yeah. Yeah. And he goes on to talk about how the modern...

Okay, this was, this book was written in like 2000, but I think he got in trouble in the 90s is when that happened, when the Unabomber manifesto came out and when he was finally rounded up, turned in by his brother. But, man, like, there's just so much in here. Like, here's just a quick insert. He talks about, here's an illustration of the way in which the over-socialized leftist shows his real attachment to the conventional attitudes of our society while pretending to be

in rebellion against it. Many leftists push for affirmative action for moving black people into high prestige jobs for improved education in black schools and more money for such schools. The way of life of the black underclass they regard as a social disgrace. And if you remember Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton talking about black people as super predators, if you remember not Admiral Bird, but Senator Burr. Bird was like a member of like the KKK and like that's who Joe Biden was at like that guy's that guys gave the eulogy for that guys you know when he died and stuff like to think that institutional racism doesn't exist is crazy so this is what Ted Kaczynski says about the the leftist paradigm he

says they want to integrate minorities into the system make them business executives lawyers scientists just like the upper middle class the leftists will reply that the last thing they want to do is to make the minorities into a copy of the white man, but that's exactly what they're trying to do. And then he gets into like over-socialization. He gets into the revive, like the industrial society and its future. It basically talks about the idea of slavery when throughout the world, be it not just the United States, but in Greek times, just this idea of slavery about there being a permanent underclass of people. And the best way to do that is not to divide people along lines of race or gender or

anything like that is to create a permanent underclass where there's a handful of people at the very top that will rule everything. And like he gets into this, you know, in like the 90s. He goes, technology is the way they're going to do it. He's like, you can already see the way technology is just dividing people. And like he wrote about almost everything that's happening. happening that that's happening right now. He's like, this is what's going to happen. And so while some of his stuff is pretty far out there, and, you know, I don't condone anybody sending letters to people

and bombing him and trying to kill him. If you read the literature that he wrote, it makes incredible sense to get to the ideas that he got to. Like, yeah, this guy saw what was happening. This guy was a mathematician from Harvard. This guy was at the cutting edge of creating policies. And he was like, dude, I'm not going to do it anymore. This is horrible. We should never do this to anybody. Like I highly recommend everybody pick up this book.

It's called technological slavery. And the first part is the Unabomber Manifesto. And, you know, I don't, I don't want to be a guy that's celebrating lunatics. Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to celebrate violence. But I think there's something to be said about the people that the same. that the system goes after wholeheartedly.

Like there's a reason they're going after them. And it might because they're a lunatic, but there might be some nuggets of truth and what these people are doing that people should pay attention to so that they don't get wiped away from history. You know, like a... Look at, I mean, there was a bunch...

There used to be this lunatic that was like, hey, man, we're not the center of the universe, man. You guys are all, you know, a lot of lunatics have good points. They're just ahead of their time. Now, some people are just lunatics, but the book is called technological slavery. People should read it. It's fascinating.

I couldn't recommend. Does it talk about MK Ultra at all? It doesn't really go into, it doesn't really go too much into that. But there, he gets interviewed. The back half of the book is like he, there was a psychologist that befriended him while he was in prison. And he started writing letters to him. In fact, the first five years, Kaczynski didn't even, he's like, dude, I'm not talking to anybody, man. But this guy kind of befriended him.

And he ends up, the psychologist printed all the letters. And Kaczynski and the psychologist printed all the letters in there at the end of the book. And it talks about, you know, let me see. I can, they're all. Here's like another little excerpt I'll give you guys. You're doing okay on time? Yeah, I got about 15, 20 minutes and then I got to take off. Okay, let me just read this one little excerpt right here.

You ask, is it not possible that our culture's unhappiness stems from our lack of strong religious beliefs, not our industrial lifestyle? Undoubtedly, some people are happier for having strong religious beliefs. On the other hand, I don't think that strong religious belief is a prerequisite for happiness, whether religion is usually conducive to happiness is open to argument. But the point I want to make here is that the decline of religion in modern society is not an accident. It is a necessary result of technological process. Just think about that for a minute. The end, right, it is a necessarily result of technological process. There are several

reasons for this of which I will mention three. First, every curtain science pulls away is another that God cannot hide behind. In other words, as science advances, it disappears, it disproves more and more traditional religious beliefs and therefore undermines faith. Second, the need need for toleration is antagonistic to strong religious belief. Various features of modern society such as easy, long-distance transportation, make mixing of populations inevitable. Today, people of different ethnic groups and different religions have to live and work side by side.

In order to avoid the disruptive conflicts to which religious hatred would give rise, society has to teach us to be tolerant. But toleration entails a weakening of religious faith. If you unquestioningly believed that your own creed were absolutely right, then you would also have to believe that every creed that disagreed with it was absolutely wrong. And this would imply a certain level of intolerance. In order to believe that all religions are just as good as yours, you have to have deep in your heart considerable uncertainty about the truth of your own religion. Third, of all the great world religions teach us such virtues as reverence and self-restraint. But the economists tell us that our economic health depends on a high level of consumption.

To get us to consume, advertisers must offer us all endless pleasure. They must encourage unbridled hedonism. And this undermines religious qualities like reverence and self-restraint. So, yeah, that's, I mean, the guy, the guy had some things figured out. But you know what? I had some of a lot, man. And it's pretty fascinating to think about. But again, I have a couple

I had another question that was that was asking you, what does it say? It said, how was, here, I'll put it right here, that's where you can read it. I still let us, brother.

Cool. Yeah. How was he able to get away from his job? Did he just walk away? I guess this is harkening back to an earlier part of our conversation when you said that you had, in the beginning you had spoken about your book.

So what did you do to get away from that? I'm sure that wasn't. an easy move. I simply left. Yeah. I don't know if I would give everyone that advice. It's usually better to have something lined up because the uncertainty of not knowing the next thing is a hard thing to deal with for me too, but in general. But yeah, I just left everything. And most recently, I even left my country and everything. I just, I was living in Switzerland, left my apartment, left the country, left the job, just walked away. I had some savings, which obviously made it easier because I've been working a high-paying

job for the last maybe six, five, six years. So I put away, I'm not a big spender. I don't have a lot of needs. You know, I don't really buy much. I didn't have my own apartment. I was sharing a lot of the time. So I didn't have high rental costs. So, yeah, I just managed to put away decent amount of money.

Not that I can retire off of it, but enough to bridge whatever this transition that I'm currently in will be. So I think I'm okay for a little bit. And I also live in a cheap country. So I moved to Bali where for $1,000 a month, I have this kick-ass lifestyle. I mean, I never cook. I never clean. I get massages every week. I go to the gym.

I do little trips all the time. That's for a thousand bucks. You can live pretty damn well. So that's what I'm doing If I ever need to really ratchet down the spending I could I could live off probably five or six hundred a month If I had to

So On your site Kevin You do you do a lot of coaching You've got resources available to you I think you're even You have a free consultation people can Can do if they come out of your site So for my friend True Patriots right here

If you wanted to reach out to you I'll put the links below So True Patriot If you I'll put the links below you can go to Kevin's site and you can schedule a consultation with him and he could probably talk to you and figure out if you're whatever you need to talk about. Yeah, and a lot of people, they're fine with just the one. You know, we have one session of the free session and then, you know, in that session,

we'll probably figure out what you want to do and then maybe get kind of a rough action plan. We just, we don't follow up. It's just it will be up to you to fall through with everything. Yeah, most people get what they need out of just one a lot of the time. Yeah, sometimes you need someone who has been down the path before just to, hey, man, watch you up for that dog leg on the back nine over there or whatever. Yeah, right. Yeah. And that's enough.

That's it. So yeah, book is Kevin Holdbuk.com. Website is Kevinhold. com. And on the first page, there's a link to my online booking thing. Nice. Well, fantastic. So, yeah.

So that's what we got. I really enjoy the. conversations and I feel like the time flies by and I'm really thankful for getting to getting to hang out with you and learn from you and have a fun conversation that I'm hopeful other people will take away some some good nuggets from so once again yeah once again what people can what's the name of your website again where they can people find you Kevin Holt that me and the same site will link to the book the book pages Kevin Holtbook.com.

And I don't have the link, but somewhere in my LinkedIn profile, there's a link for the breathwork group for those of you that are interested in that. It's on telegram, though. You get the telegram out. Fantastic. All right, Kevin. Well, I really appreciate it. And we'll talk again next week, man.

We'll do it. All right. Thanks, brother. Okay, man. Have a good one. Yep. Aloha.