TrueLife - INDEED for WEED - An International Entrepreneurial Network for Cannabis

Episode Date: February 23, 2024

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/INDEED for WEED! Ladies and gentlemen, esteemed guests, it is my pleasure to introduce Dr. Andy, a dynamic entrepreneur and visionary leader at the forefront of healthcare innovation. With a rich background as a physician, Dr. Andy's journey has been nothing short of remarkable. Having spent numerous years providing direct care to patients, he embarked on a transformative path into the business realm of medicine, leveraging his expertise in consulting and sales to drive meaningful change. However, Dr. Andy's thirst for exploration and passion for discovery led him on a captivating detour to Vietnam, where he immersed himself in the vibrant craft beer scene, expanding his horizons and embracing new opportunities. Now, back in Europe, Dr. Andy has redirected his focus to a groundbreaking frontier: medical cannabis. With a deep commitment to improving patient care and well-being, he is dedicated to harnessing the therapeutic potential of this remarkable plant, working tirelessly to ensure its benefits reach those in need. Please join me in welcoming the innovative Dr. Andy, a true pioneer in the intersection of medicine, entrepreneurship, and compassion.http://linkedin.com/in/andymannsfeldhttps://www.eucannajobs.com/ One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark, fumbling, fear, Fearist through ruins maze, lights my war cry, born from the blaze.

The poem is Angels with Rifles. The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Seraphini. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Ladies and gentlemen, it's Friday in some places. It looks like we made it. I hope everybody's having a beautiful evening, a beautiful day. I hope that you got to wake up in the arms of the person you love the most. I hope you realize a little miracle. I'm just waiting to

happen to you as soon as you walk out that door. I got a great miracle for you and store today. The world of cannabis is knocking on my door. I have an incredible guest here. We're going to get into it. I want everyone to help me welcome and understand that it is my great pleasure to introduce to you, Dr. Andy Mansfeld. He's a dynamic entrepreneur, a visionary leader at the forefront of health care innovation with a rich background as a physician. Dr. Andy's journey has been nothing short of remarkable. Having spent numerous years providing direct care to patients, he embarked on a transformative path into the business realm of medicine, leveraging his expertise in consulting in sales to drive meaningful, ladies and gentlemen, I want to underscore that word. However,

Dr. Andy's thirst for exploration and passion for discovery led him on a captivating detour to Vietnam, where he immersed himself in the vibrant craft beer scene, which we're going to talk about that a little bit, I hope, and expanding his horizons and embracing new opportunities. Now, back in Europe, Dr. Andy has redirected his focus to a groundbreaking frontier, medical cannabis. With a deep commitment to improving patient care and well-being, he is dedicated to harnessing the therapeutic potential of this remarkable plant,

working tirelessly to ensure its benefits reach those in need. Please join me and welcoming the innovative, Dr. Andy, a true pioneer in the intersection of medicine, entrepreneurship, and compassion. Thank you for being here today. Dr. Annie, how are you? I'm doing great, George. How are you doing? Thank you for having me. Yeah, the pleasure's all mine. It's a, it is indeed interesting times we live in. And, you know, I gave you a little bit of a, I just, I just highlighted a few spots in your background. You have such a diverse background and you, a wealth of knowledge in different areas, not only in different areas of expertise,

but like different parts of the world, man. And I was kind of wondering, maybe you could open up that background a little bit more. Like, who were you before you are the guy that you are today in working on medical cannabis? And what kind of really, was there something that really got you going for this? Or how did it come about?

Well, I think I've always been a proponent of legalization of cannabis and marijuana. just from a kind of a ethical background or a point of view because I've never understood why this plant was being demonized while people are drinking. And back in the day, a lot more drinking and driving. And people were smoking cigarettes, but cannabis was not allowed, which never seemed to be quite as evil as the government made it out to be. you know so that's going back a long ways but then when I was a physician in Colorado I was in

Colorado and when the legalization happened there and you started getting more and more information about how it definitely helps with chronic pain so just from that point of view it made sense you know and then you know we've seen a lot of other benefits but that was always clear that it helped with chronic pain. So it never made sense why it was being demonized all over the place. Yeah, it's an interesting relationship the word medicine has, right? Like, you know, how do you define medicine? When I say the word medicine, how do you define that? Oh, wow, good question. I mean, in the end, it's anything that potentially helps someone. It doesn't necessarily have to heal. I mean, other doctors might not like that answer, but I mean, you know, going back thousands of

years, people were using plants originally, obviously, because that's all they had. That and, you know, in prayer or whatever, the shamans and medicine people back then were calling it. But originally it was using plants and different substances that were found in nature, you know. But, you know, modern medical studies, you know, you look at. does a medication work or not, a pill work, and then you have the placebo effect. But does a placebo effect do not still have an effect? And it does. You know, it doesn't mean that you can run around selling sugar pills and hope for some

placebo effect. But if someone has benefited by a placebo effect, they're still getting a benefit. So it's hard in the end to define, I think, medicine or medication as specifically something you can test in a test to necessarily, although cannabis, THC can be proven to have certain benefits, even in a test tube or in a laboratory, you know. Yeah. You know, it brings into question this idea of medicine

and both of us are big fans of plant medicine. But in the Western world, it seems to me, especially with being on the heels of COVID, like we see illness as contain. And when I start thinking about cannabis, starting in Colorado or starting being decriminalized, I know people hate that word decriminalized, but legalized. Whatever you want to say, it almost seems to me like wellness can be contagious. You start looking at these studies. Now more studies come out.

It's almost like it gains momentum. What's your take on that? Like is it, what was the take on wellness being contagious? Is that too crazy? No, I mean, I think it's a very good point. I mean, not just things like cannabis or, you know, now psychedelics are becoming in vogue and being researched for mental health things. But if you look at also, you know, fitness, dieting, all these different things that are all what also wellness and health related, they also have kind of their contagiousness, you know. if you grow up in an area of the world where everyone walks everywhere and bikes everywhere,

then that's what you grow up knowing, and that's what you do. If you grow up in an area where you eat a lot of fast food and don't exercise much and sit in front of your computer gaming all day, and that's what all the people around you do, that's what you do. It doesn't make you a bad person, but it's just what you know and what you've been exposed to. and that's contagiousness just like you described it. So I think certainly wellness and any behaviors can be considered contagious, sure. Or even mood, you know, if you walk in a room and you're in a bad mood and everyone else is in a good mood,

it can go one way or the other. Either you get in a good mood or they get in a bad mood, but, you know, I mean, moods are definitely contagious. Yeah, it's fascinating to think about, it makes me think of, you know, if you throw a cold, glass of water into a swimming pool. It doesn't take long before that cold water becomes the same temperature as the water in the swimming pool, right? This is a pretty interesting. I think that this is also sort of a bridge towards stigma. You know, on some level, I remember being a young kid and being like, I'm going to smoke this joint and go over here, but I'd be super nervous because society

looked down on it, you know, and there's got to be, I don't know if there's any tests on it, but there has to be some sort of effect in the individual when society looks down upon something, even if it's good for you, right? I don't really hear that talked about too much. What's your take on that? Certainly, you know, the people who are using cannabis from a medical point of view

are lumped in with the people who are using recreationally. And I'm not saying anything wrong about the people using recreationally but you know that's where the stigma originally came from and um or not necessarily there i guess it came from the uh for madness yeah the refram madness of government propaganda which turned out was all racist BS you know way back to me yeah um you know the stigma comes from the recreational side more than the medical side but if someone is using it to help their chronic pain or whatever other issues you know they the public still looks at that person the same way because they don't know

it's not like someone walking around with a sign saying i'm using this for blah blah blah you know disease state so um certainly i think that affects people's first of all their ability to try it as a medication yeah and then certainly their ability to use it in an open manner I mean, that being said, you know, if someone's using edibles or chinketures or something, that's a lot more easy to take in public than if you're vaping or smoking. So, you know, the method of delivery also makes a difference there in how people look at you because they don't notice it, they don't notice. So, I mean, certainly stigma is a big problem.

But you also see there's a lot of reports. If you look at the acceptance in the U.S. and then spreading right. around the world, you know, once you have medical, cannabis, medical marijuana in its place for a few years, the number of people who accept it goes up dramatically. And now in the US, majority of people in the US, both conservatives and locals are in favor of medical cannabis. And you're starting to see big trends like that across Europe

and a lot of other countries too in the world, South America and in particular also. So you're really seeing that trend, which as people accept it the stigma goes down, although it doesn't disappear because someone can say, yes, I agree with medical cannabis, but when they see someone on the street smoking a joint, they're still going to give them the side eye, you know, so there's still a ways to go, but it's heading in the right direction, I would say. Yeah, that's interesting. You know, as someone who has spent time on both sides of the pond, is what's going on in Europe over there? I don't know. I pay attention a little bit

over there and I talk to people like Sebastian Mar and Colo and, you know, maybe before I move on any further, let me just give a shout out to Mark Davis. Mark Davis is an, for people watching this show, if you don't know who Mark Davis is, you should Google him. Because if you're in the world of cannabis and you don't know who Mark Davis is, you got a problem because Mark Davis can help you find the person that you need to be next to. Shout out to Mark Davis, Mark, thank you for everything. You're an amazing human being. So Andy, I said someone who's been on both sides of the pond and you've seen the trends you've been over in denver you see what's going on you you have a relationship with with medical cannabis and now you're in europe what is it like over there

is it the same rules is it different rules or different stigmas is it a different relationship maybe you can fill my my audience in on what's what's it like over there with cannabis medical cannabis yeah um i mean it's in some ways it's very similar to the u.s because you know in europe you have a lot of different countries they all make their own walls uh but they're all under the most of the countries are under the EU which has its own overriding laws so it's similar to the u.s where you have all the states with their own laws and regulations and the federal government so you know different countries here are pat starting to pass different laws almost every country most countries in europe have medical cannabis some it's more accessible

than others some have laws saying medical cannabis is allowed but it's impossible to access it but Germany's had medical cannabis since 2017, and it's the biggest medical cannabis market in Europe. So that has, I think, also led to the drive here in Germany to have full legalization, which actually they're supposed to be voting in the law today for what's called the first pillar where they're going to be allowing then home grows and cannabis cannabis social clubs, similar to what they have in Spain and Barcelona. But it won't be like a regulated adult use recreational market yet, but that's supposed to come at a later state or stage. But so it's very similar to the U.S.

You have all these different countries. They all have different rules. It's very confusing for people. You can't transport from one country to the other, but some countries you can grow in and export to other countries. For instance, a lot of growing is happening in Portugal, and they can export to Germany for medical and research purposes, but not for recreational purposes. And the restriction on that commerce or that transport of recreational cannabis between countries is governed by EU and UN rules or laws. So that's almost akin to the federal situation in the U.S. where federal government said you can't have interstate commerce with cannabis because it's illegal on the federal level. Same here in Europe because of the EU and UN rules.

You can't sell or it's not about selling. you can't even transport cannabis for recreational purposes. So the countries are trying to work within all these frameworks and doing their own things within their borders. Yes, that's very similar to the U.S. It's a confusing patchwork of different rules and regulations that is difficult to keep track of. Man, it just sounds to me like there's a roomful of heavyweights

that are like, I get this cut, you get that cut. No, no, no, no, no. I get this cut, you get that cut. No, no, no, no. We're going to centralize this bad boy. And, you know, it just, it sounds to me like people are arguing about who's going to get paid and not really caring about the true benefits of what it can do to help people on some level, man. Wait, you have, you have had an interesting career and you have seen a lot of changes in cannabis.

And I'm curious if you can maybe speak to some of the, the ideas. that have changed in your mind about cannabis? Well, I think one of the biggest is, from a medical point of view, I mentioned chronic pain earlier, and I always saw that as an obvious area where medical cannabis can be helpful. Wasn't clear to me because we didn't have the studies how beneficial would be, but now we're seeing that a lot of people are able to stop using opiates completely. you know, when they're on massive doses, they're able to stop using opiates completely,

able to function much better because they're not as knocked out. Opies stop people out much worse than cannabis does. So, you know, seeing that and seeing the studies that prove that you can really treat pain very well with cannabis, even cannabis alone, was quite amazing to see. But now you're seeing that as helpful in many other areas. there's seizures, especially in children that are not controlled by other medications. That's something that we've seen movies and heard a lot of stories about, but there's a lot of evidence coming out about that also.

Yeah. But the one that actually has surprised me is how helpful it is in mental health. There's a lot of studies coming out that it is beneficial in mental health. My concern was that it might even be detrimental to people with mental health issues. But, you know, without studies, you never know. you know and so luckily over the last years you've had a lot more a lot more medical research coming out which is really starting to show what it can and can't do you know and that was one of the big problems with the probation was that you couldn't do any research and then you had big pharma who

was also pushing don't don't legalize it because we're going to lose money yeah don't fund research because we're going to lose money. You know, like you said, not trying to help the people, just trying to watch their pocketbook. But now, you know, there's thousands and thousands of studies coming out in the last few years that are just focused on cannabis and what it can and can't do. Yeah, you know, I, too am blown away

by the way in which plant medicine is able to help people with mental health problems. You know, if you're like me, you have a copy of the DSM and you'll flip through it sometimes and be like, this is all bullshit. You know what I mean?

You start looking through there and you're like, I'm like, this is all hypothetical, man. And, you know, a big dose of psychedelics or even cannabis at the right time, at the right dosage, it really changed your perspective on things. And for someone who has gone through

bouts of depression, at times or, you know, face some mania here and there. It seems to me that plant medicine gives you a different perspective. And it's with that different perspective that you can maybe understand why you're in constant pain. Like, you know what? You know what this constant pain is? It's this unwillingness to confront this problem in my life that I've had since I was five

and it's now manifesting in ways that are physical, you know. And so it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, connected on some level like that. And I really think that that is a giant step forward for medicine to thoroughly understand or begin to understand the mind-body connection and pain and suffering and all these things. And I think cannabis goes a long way in helping people figure that kind of stuff out. Do you think that that's a big part of the mental wellness effects that cannabis can have on people? You know, I'm not sure about cannabis. I mean, like I said, I mean, I believe that, you know, studies are showing it's definitely helpful for mental health, different mental health issues.

I'm not sure how cannabis plays into those. I think for anxiety and some things like that, it's a little bit more obvious, but others, I'm not sure. I think the psychedelics are, or to me make a little bit more sense in the form of like for PTSD and major depression, that's refractory treatment and all these different things. They talk about a be kind of a reset, that psychedelic medicines give some kind of a reset for the brain. I think that goes to what you're saying, kind of opens up the person's brain to see things in a different light and reach to areas, whether it be past traumas or whatever it may be, but it kind of opens up their brain a little bit, their mind a little bit,

to see different things or to be able to understand different things or access different things. I think that's where the psychedelics really are seeming to work on those really difficult problems. I don't know if cannabis works in the same way, though. You know, I just don't know. I'm not sure what the mechanism there is. It would be interesting to see, because I know when you, when you ingest cannabis,

it forms a different molecule than the, I don't know enough to quote you exactly what's happening when it gets broken down in the liver, but I think it's a different type of cannabinoid that happened. There's something different than happens when you ingest it versus when you smoke it. And I think that it's more psychedelic when you take it in and you eat it on some level.

It would be an interesting study to see the way in which THC, the Turpene's, affect the default mode network in the brain. Like, is it doing something similar to psychedelic? You could put up the bio, the neural feedback and probably at least get a map and kind of see that stuff. Are you aware of any kind of studies that have been happening with cannabis and like neural feedback or any studies in that area? I'm not aware of any. I'm sure there's some research going on there, but I mean, I'm not aware of them. But I think the big part of the problem also is we don't really understand everything that's happening, whether it be with psychedelics, but I think more so with cannabis because of all the turpines and alkaloids and all these other things that are in the plant, which are leading to the entourage effect, which is real. But there's so many different combinations.

There's millions of different types of combinations where you've got dozens and dozens of turpents. and opioids and all these different things that are different levels and at one level will have this effect at a different level, a different one, and how they interact with the other compounds. It's so complex that, I mean, I think in the end, maybe supercomputers and AI will help us maybe figure some of it out. But I think it's the different number of permutations of things combining and affecting each other are too large for our human brains to be able to comprehend. you know um yeah i mean we know some basics about these turpenes will have these general effects and these have these general effects kind of things but what if one's in a high uh dose and once also in a high dose maybe they interact then differently you know and we see that with certain compounds at a high dose it causes anxiety at a low dose it causes euphoria and different things like that

so it's just so complex that i don't know how we can figure that out literally. Isn't that the whole problem in medicine? Like, I mean, if you can't measure all the variables, how the hell are you supposed to get the answer? You know what I mean?

It's kind of crazy. And that's the problem. You know, that is one of the problems, you know, medicine has tried to, or government has tried to say, well,

you can only leave, at first area, like you can take THC, either make it by extraction, and distill it down to where it's only THC or create a fake THC, and that you can sell, but you can't sell the real original version,

which comes from the plant with the turpies and everything else combined. And then it didn't work as well, yeah. And it comes from medicine wanting to be precise, but if the end effect is not as useful, then it's not really useful. just because that way we can control it better. I mean, that doesn't make sense either. Yeah, I was speaking not too long ago

with Professor Erica Dick in Canada, and she was telling me about, you know, it seems like there was a previous wave of psychedelics in the late 50s and cannabis as well, in the late 50s moving into the 60s where things were still kind of put up in this medical container. And she was speaking about some of the doctors that were doing some studies.

And she had mentioned to me that some of the questionnaires were much, they were, they were a lot more willing to look at subjective effects. And one of the questions that they would ask the people that were going through treatment on psychedelics, they would ask the family, particularly the wives, like, is your husband less of an asshole? And it seems to me like that particular type of questioning is kind of moved out of the for being imprecise or, but the subjective ideas, I think, are measurable, whether it's the tears of the people that love you, seeing you, getting better, you know, or the relationships

that you, that someone could honestly say, like, wow, this person is really opening up or my kids talking to me again, you know, like, those are real effects. I mean, I'm hopeful. Do you think that that's something that, or is that being looked at again, or is that something that we could help inject back into the system to help maybe move the ball, forward or what's your thoughts on that well i think i think traditional medicine has already been looking at things like at good you know it's called quality of life and quality of life measurements right you know and they for a long time that was missing but it but i mean it's been being looked at more and more over the last couple of decades for sure um and yeah it's just a common phrase is quality of life

but um it's it is hard to measure those things and that's where research studies medical studies has always struggled, how do you measure some objective things to try and get numbers and figures and data that you can actually use, especially from one study to the next? You know, if you just, if everyone says, I feel better, well, what does that mean? You know, another good example is pain. You know, how do you measure pain? And that's always been a conundrum for researchers because people say, well, it hurts less. It's a scale of one to 10. And still, people don't, know until you've been at a 10 of 4 feels like a 10 if you've never been above a 4. You know, so it's not the problem with quality of life stuff. It's hard to measure.

Yeah. Yeah. It's fascinating. And it's does it seem to you that we are in a crisis of mental health? Like when I when I, I spent a lot of time in the in this field talking to different experts and different coaches and people with PTSD and some veterans groups. And I keep you. hearing this word like we're in an epidemic of mental health what's your take on that no i'd say definitely we have been for for probably 40 50 years at least you know i mean before then i think it was um just shut up and suck it up and you don't say anything uh and that went for that counted for both men and women and you were taught it as a child you know um i think especially in the u.s but you also see here in Europe, but not to the same extent as in the U.S. A large part of that epidemic of mental

health crisis comes from the fact that it's not being treated or paid for by the government or by health care systems or even by insurance companies in the U.S. So, you know, people are finally allowed to in a healthy, or allow to express that they have mental health issues and need some help. Or even if they don't say they need help, it's obvious that they do. And, and And there's no one to help them. So that's, I think, it's an unfortunate thing. You've allowed people to express their needs and to share their emotions. And then they're told, good job.

Glad you're in touch with your needs. Now go sit in the corner and suffer alone because no one's going to help you. You know, I mean, it's rather unfair. I think it's something that's very solvable. It just takes some time and effort and money from the governments to say this needs to be treated like what it is, which is a medical condition. But it's just not being done. Because once again, money and it's cheaper. And they think the politicians think it's cheaper to ignore it.

But in the end, it costs more. Just like all other medical issues, if you don't take care of them early, they cost more later. Yeah. Do you ever think that that's not a bug? It's a feature. It seems to me interesting that when we look at addiction, isn't it interesting that sometimes you look at business, like Xerox, for example, they'll give you the printer for almost free. But you want some toner? Hey, the first one's free, but after that you're going to buy it. You know what I mean? It's almost like this model of addiction has been commercialized. But when I see some of my friends that, maybe you want to some of my friends that maybe. I had a heroin addiction. Now they're on Suboxone. It's like they just trade, they traded this street drug for this pharmaceutical, but you still got to take it and you can, and the mentality that comes with it too, like you can never touch another drug because you're a drug addict. It's almost like pulling them back into the world of addiction on some level. Yeah. I mean, actually, you're in a little aside, you know, now there's some, you know, cannabis was always called the gateway

drug, which has been proven in multiple studies not to be the case, but now there's some research coming out suggesting that it's actually the gateway out of addiction. Wow. That's so awesome. Yeah. And not saying that if someone has a drug addiction, they should start, they should add cannabis to the mix. I mean, that should be done probably in conjunction with a therapist or someone,

you know, someone else with some kind of expertise. But, you know, there is some research coming out suggesting that it's actually helping people get cleaner. Oh, that's brilliant. But, you know, addiction is such a complicated thing. You know, some people or take the more common things that everyone knows, cigarettes and alcohol. Some people drink too much in college and then later they can lead a healthy, have a healthy relationship with alcohol.

Other people can't. Some people are able to just smoke a few cigarettes a week or one or two a day. and still be, which is still not great for you, but it's better than a pack a day. You know, and other people, they're going to smoke, they're going to smoke a pack or two a day. So same goes with other drugs. I mean, there's not many recreational heroin users, but there are some. Yeah, totally makes sense to me, but, you know, they're all, it's a big spectrum for everything. And same for drug addiction and people who use drugs.

but certainly any help that can be found for people who are in the really dark corners of addiction it's great that there's some help for them yeah yeah i agree it's so interesting to to get to hear that like my mind is racing like i can't wait to start reading some of that stuff as cannabis is a gateway out of addiction. It makes so much sense. And like I know so many people that, you know, you look at the old school, the Bill Wilson model of, of AA and everyone's smoking cigarettes, you know what I mean?

Like, it's just like, you still got a drug in your hand. Why do you mean you can't do drugs? It's so crazy to me to think on a, on a, and I'm not trying to make light of it. Like I have nothing but huge respect for people that have made it through different programs and are able to keep their sobriety on a level. And I realize how important it is.

I have lots of friends that have done and I'm super proud of them. It's just interesting to think our relationship with the word drug. You know, it's a weird thing to think about. Yeah, yeah, it is interesting. But just go back to what you were talking about in a minute. You know, the people who trade one addiction for another, the cigarettes, you know, they start in a pack or two a day when they're going through AA. You know, an AA or just addiction in general has a term for that that's a dry drunk.

You know, it's someone who is dry, who isn't drinking, but they still have all the same issues or mannerisms or behaviors that they had when they were drinking. They're just not drunk now. And it comes from not really doing the work to understand where that addiction and those behaviors are coming from, which goes back to kind of what we were talking about earlier, where some of the psychedelics help people delve into their inner being to figure out. what is causing them to act so recklessly and destructively. And once people are able to do that work, usually they're able to move on a little bit easier. It doesn't mean they still struggle with wanting to have a drink or use or whatever. It's a little bit easier when you understand where all your behaviors and triggers are coming from instead of just being powerless and throwing your hands up in there and saying,

why am I feeling this way? Yeah, so I think that's really important. Sorry, now I forgot what you were asking. Man, no, it's brilliant. I love what you're going. And I, on some level, I think we are walking down the path of more holistic approach to medicine, right? It seems like that.

When we start talking about things being connected and behaviors and symptomatic issues and language, like I think you're starting to build out a better picture. of really what's going on. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, when I was in medical school a number of years ago, you know, there was already a lot of talk about mind and body interconnecting, but it was still not, I would say, necessarily completely mainstream. And it depends on the physician you're talking to also.

You know, a surgeon, he's going to cut, and that's what he's there to do. Yeah. You know, if you're talking to a doctor who specializes in arthritis, you know, they're going to be looking more at the clinical picture. But if you're talking to your family physician or GP, you know, that's where you're more likely to find someone who's going to say, yeah, mind, body, there is a connection. They're very important. It's important to look at both.

But, you know, in the U.S. and in Europe, the doctor doesn't have time to sit here with you in each visit for 15, 20, 30 minutes to discuss all the aspects of what's going on in your life and, you know, what's happening in your relationship at home with your wife and your kids and your parents and your siblings and, you know, building this big picture to understand what's going on. I mean, patients don't even have time for that, really, for the time that it takes. So, I mean, it's good that medicine is becoming more open to the connection between mind and body. but there's just not time for it in the modern world. Or even if there is time, who's going to pay for it?

Because the physician has to, you know, make money so that they can pay their staff and pay themselves a salary and put food on their own table. And insurance isn't going to pay anyone for an hour to sit there and talk about feelings, unfortunately, you know? Is it this like I have Kaiser and I go to Kaiser like my doctor's on a timer, man. guy like what up George how's it going boom boom boom you know and I can see this I can see the love in his eyes like he wants to talk to me more and like he'll me and him will have a conversation and be like god I got to go George I love you know I got to go is it the same I don't thoroughly understand

the whole medical model anything like that and I'm new to it is is it the same in Europe as it is in America in America we hear we have the greatest model ever but I don't know is it different in Europe, what are some similarities and some differences that you happen in there? I mean, it's very similar. So, you know, if you look at studies, many physicians in the U.S. are not happy with their careers and wouldn't do it again, don't want their kids to do it, don't want to do it themselves. And it's because of these time pressures and financial pressures and they don't really get to do what they want to do, which is take the time to really spend time with their patients and figure out what's going on. It's more about the conveyor belt.

And it's very similar in Europe. Definitely in Germany. I know I have a lot of friends who are physicians here. I know physicians in the UK and both countries is very, very similar. And it's exact same complaints. So what's better here, though, is you really don't have the problem of massive numbers of people without insurance. and that makes a big difference. In the U.S., there's tens of millions of people without insurance

who get zero benefit or zero help just about unless they happen to be lucky. In Denver, they have Denver Health, which takes care of all the uninsured and underinsured people, but just within Denver proper. If you're on the wrong zip code or in the wrong zip code, you can't go to Denver Health. And then you're just out of luck. You know, and there are some other clinics and stuff that can try and fill in, but they don't have enough resources.

So, you know, in the U.S., that's the big problem that you just don't have access for tens of millions of people. But both sides of the pond, physicians aren't happy because they can't spend the time that they want with their patients. And then the patients aren't happy, you know. It's just not the best system. And it's because you're trying to squeeze every dollar out of the system. Yeah, it's hard to get blood from Iraq. Right. And then it's much worse, though.

You know, I mean, the U.S., they could, the government could easily pay for the health system. There's enough money in it to pay for everyone to have health care. But the problem in the U.S. is that you've got the insurance companies who pull out probably $5 to $10 billion a quarter. Wow. And profit out of the health care system. You don't have that as much in Europe. Of course, you've got insurance. companies are pulling out pulling money out but not to the extent that they are in the u.s

and you know when they've when the congressional uh what's it called the congressional budget office i think is what's called or whatever it's called looked at it you know they said yeah it'll cost trillions of dollars to have universal health care in the u.s but what people ignored was the savings that would actually pay for itself and be cheaper than what's currently going on in the u.s in the long run. And, you know, so people saw the first sentence, but didn't read the rest of the last few, basically. And it comes down to if you have universal government health care coverage in the U.S., the insurance companies aren't pulling all the profit out and putting it in the pockets of a few investors and, you know, their CEOs making $100 million a year, whatever they pull in, you know.

Man, corruption. You know, I heard a good question. quote that said something along the lines of when the instrument becomes institutionalized and it loses its ability to cut. It just makes so much sense. Like when you have this instrument that works and then you turn it into an institution,

you get insurance, but geez, Louise, man. Like when you start digging, peeling back the layer, it's like, what happened? But I don't know. It's, what brought you to, maybe we could hear about your journey, You were in Denver.

Why know that much? And then now you're over here in Europe. Like, what happened, man? Did you go out there for cannabis? Did you go to Vietnam first? Or what's the story there? Yeah. So, I mean, first I went to Vietnam.

So a friend was opening up a craft brewery there and wanted me to help with that process. And so I was kind of like, what the hell, why not? Sounds fun and interesting. Yeah. So I went there for about four years. But then that was. during that was when COVID hit also Vietnam shut their borders at the beginning of COVID completely so within the country you had very little COVID and things were you were pretty free within the

country but there was no one coming in and you know so tourism went from millions of visitors to zero overnight which put a big it was a big issue for anyone involved in food and beverage and stuff, I mean, obviously. So I decided at some point that it was time to go ahead and move on. My plan was never to stay there extremely long term. I was thinking a couple of years, turned into four years. I'm very happy with those four years. So not complaining that I was there longer than my original intention, which was also very vague anyway. So it was very open-ended. but I've been coming to Berlin since 1990, since the wall came down and we've always liked Berlin. And so I decided to move here and looking at the kind of following what's happening with the cannabis industry here.

And with having seen everything in Colorado, I thought it would be interesting to explore this industry here a little bit more. and actually first got involved with the cultivation project, and that's when I realized how there was a real need for a cannabis-specific jobs platform, because it was extremely difficult to find workers who were interested in the cannabis space or the cannabis industry. So that's why I came up with the idea for EU Canada jobs and started working on that. alongside as I was working on the cultivation project which in the end it didn't work out due to funding but kept working on my e.U Canada jobs project that was my primary focus at that point and that's going well and definitely getting a lot of good feedback from industry and individuals

alike that they're happy to see something like this that they can turn to to help when they're looking for workers or when workers are looking for places to work. It's working out great. Yeah, we could tell us a little bit more about it. Is it, it's like an indeed for people with weed? A weed? That's a wrong way to say it. Actually, that'd be a good name for it, in weed.

Indeed, would probably be very happy with that. Yeah, yeah. It's interesting, because there's tons of people looking to break that have a passion for it, that have gone to school for it nowadays and understand cultivating and understand, you know, especially it seems like Canada and a few spots in the U.S. are some pretty hot spots. How does it work, man? Maybe tell us all about it. How does it work?

Yeah, so we do two different things. We have our jobs platform, which is like you said, exactly like indeed. You go on and you can search through jobs. companies can create a profile and start just posting jobs right away on their own where they contact us and we help them. So the jobs platform is like an indeed for weed, exactly. And then we also do recruiting where like typical recruiting, you know, we go out and we help. You know, a company comes to us saying we need a head of sales who speaks three languages.

And they'll be, you know, their home base will be here. and then we go through our candidate pool, see if we have anyone in our candidate pool, and also reach out to other potential candidates, you know, and find someone for that company. You know, it helps the companies a lot because the jobs by phone helps companies because now the candidates are coming who are interested in the cannabis industry. And the other option is that candidate is just looking on Indeed for, let's say, a sales position, and they see 10,000 sales jobs, they might not ever even see the cannabis sales job. Right.

So, even though the person is interested in the industry, they can't find it. The company is interested in this individual, but they're lost behind 10,000 other job posts for a similar position. So really, by having the industry-specific job board, it really helps kind of connect the people. Like the tech industry has been doing it for decades. You know, you have all these tech. job boards. Now you have it for other things, for agriculture and things like that too. Because it's just been shown time and time again that these industry or niche specific platforms really do help connect the right people with the right companies.

Yeah, it's, it makes perfect sense. And especially, I think right now people are going to look back on these days with fond memories. I'm really hopeful that whether it is the sheer amount of money that's about to pour into the industry, or it is the sheer volume of people that can be helped because of this industry, I really think that we're on the precipice of changing the laws, whether it's interstate commerce, which I hear is coming up soon, hopefully. And, you know, once the first dam begins to break, I really think you're going to see the stigma begin to evaporate and flood in there. So I think you're laying the groundwork right now is a great way, especially over in Europe because you are like a,

you're a conduit for people coming from different parts of the world. And like, hey, yeah, I know this company. Here's how the laws are over there. You really do a lot of the streamlining to help bring people up to speed. Yeah, yeah. And so Germany is supposed to be passing their law today. You know, so like I said earlier, and other countries are, most of the countries in Europe are having discussions,

some further along than others. But even, you know, just less than a year, ago, France and Spain were saying, we're not going to be looking at this. Now they're both looking at it, taking a serious look at it. Portugal was kind of slow rolling it all along, and now they're looking at it more closely. And there's a lot of other Czech Republic has been kind of right along with Germany and really trying to push the whole, the full legalization. And now they've also stepped back a little bit when they saw the issues that Germany was having with the EU. But a lot of countries are looking at.

it in one fashion or another. Like you said, once the damn breaks, it looks like Germany is going to be that damn. Germany being the biggest economy in Europe, of course, that's going to be a big driver anyway. But it's all the more reason why Germany is also being very careful about how they do it. First of all, Germany is always about, you know, following the rules correctly, you know, and they don't want to do something that undermines the authority of the EU or the U.S. because they're big supporters of both of those, which is good. I agree with that. So eventually the EU and UN rules are going to have to be changed.

But to get those to be changed is very difficult because then, for instance, in the EU, I believe it's 27 states or countries, they all have to agree or change these rules. And you're all going to have holdouts, especially some of the further eastern countries are more conservative, you know, that, or because they want to use it as a political maneuver by a country's been doing with, you know, Sweden getting into the EU or into NATO and things like that. You know, they use, some countries will use these things that everyone is an agreement on as political, you know, maneuvering. So, you know, changing rules on, the bigger rules can be very difficult. But as you have medical cannabis and within the countries themselves, as things move along,

and the citizens start saying we want this, eventually that groundswell of support is too much that the government can't ignore it anymore. They have to do something. Yeah. It's interesting. You know, when I look at, when I talk to some of the people in the world of cannabis in the United States, there are some issues with it. Like some people, I remember not too long ago, there was this ground swell and, you know, people that were cultivating, we're making tons of money, but then the bottom kind of drops out of it. And then you could buy it on the street for less. And, you know, there's all this pressure happening that changes the game there.

Are you seeing some of those, does that the same game that happens in Europe? And maybe you could explain what the ground game is over there. Yeah, I mean, right now it's all medical. So, and medical in Europe is handled much differently than. in the U.S. You know, in the U.S., basically what you saw for medical was, people would go get a bogus medical card from somewhere, and then they could walk into any dispensary. Here, you end up with a real prescription, which has to be filled out, you know, every month or so, or over a couple of months, then you have to go to a true pharmacy and pick it up. And so it's really treated exactly like a

medication. But in Germany, at least, the insurance companies are also paying for it because of that. Yeah, so that's a big difference. And so far, European countries, much more so than a lot of the recent states in the U.S. are really looking at it from a fairly honest point of view, it seems to me. You know, you don't have the politicians, brothers getting the first licenses like these. Yeah. There are Republican conservative states that have said we'll never allow cannabis. All of a sudden, they're all jumping on the bandwagon passing laws. Yet there's all kinds of shadiness on who gets these licenses going on.

You know, and there's lawsuits in so many states because of all these very questionable license, you know, disbursements, I guess you would say. You know, so I think it's a lot of. being handled a lot more honestly here also at least germany has done some fact-finding trips to the u.s to look at what's happening what isn't um so far they're not talking about doing massive special taxes on cannabis above and beyond which is what's been killing the industry in in both the u.s and canada is one of the main problems you know that um like you said competition is driving down the the profit, which is normal in any industry.

Yeah. That's fine. That's normal. It's not a big deal, in my opinion. I mean, if you need to be efficient, if you can't be efficient, then then you lose out. But when you have to pay a 20, 30% tax on top of all other taxes, I mean, that wipes out any profit. I mean, that's impossible. What industry, other industry has ever been able to before taxes like that?

No one. I mean, maybe the oil industry could, but they get subsidies actually, you know? So they really could, but they get money given to them. So Germany and other countries here, from what I've seen, are not looking at doing those types of ridiculous taxes to, yeah, so it's a money grab that doesn't really serve the economy in the long run. Yeah, it's true. Yeah, it's I wish people could And I think what may be the

saving grace is what we talked about earlier. It's the true healing power of it. Like when you start seeing people no longer plagued by by long-term pain or you see them break an opioid addiction, like this tends to be things that can transform the way society works.

Like if a number, enough people begin to heal from something. It's like it almost becomes the wave that breaks over the pier if that makes sense. Like, okay, okay, look, this is ridiculous. Like, what are we doing here? Yeah, yeah. And, you know, almost everyone knows someone who has struggled with the addiction or had cancer or chronic pain or mental health problems.

You know, I mean, these are all things that are so common that, yeah, everyone knows someone. And a lot of times, one of those that I just mentioned is probably within the tighter family, you know, even. And so that's where I think you're seeing a lot of this public support now is more and more people are being exposed to people who they personally know who benefited from cannabis. You know, and I think the majority of support isn't because everyone thinks everyone should be running around smoking joints on every street. corner. No, they're saying my grandmother had cancer and this was and this helped her immensely in her last months or you know, my friend has chronic pain from a from a work injury or chronic or from a bad

accident or whatever and this helps them greatly and he doesn't have to take opiates anymore. You know, I'm all for it. So these are the types of stories that make it very personal for people, but also change people's minds overnight. You know, people can be 100% against it until that personal connection has benefited from it and they see that it's not a bunch of stoners and drug drug addicts but it's people that they consider good people who are being being benefited. Yeah, it's interesting to see our relationship with cannabis change. You know, and just in my lifetime, like it was like it used to be used to be you'd buy a dime bag for 10 bucks. My uncle said he used to buy a dime bag for 10 cents, but for my day it was 10 bucks.

You know, and I guess that's inflation, but, you know, you were, you buy it from some dude in the back alley or you buy it from Jimmy at the party, whatever, man. It was illegal. And so you would take your dime bag and you smoke it up with your friends and your Volkswagen van on the way to a dead concert, the laser light show or something like that. But now you can go and you can see the turp pro. You could turn that bottle around and be like, oh, look at this turp profile right here. You know, and I know people that are working with companies like 23 Amy, not 23 Amy, but companies like that to do genetic testing to try to figure out, hey, what's going on in here? And it just, it just seems the same way I could pick up a bottle of beer and look at the back and see the calories. Now, too, can I figure out, hey, it's not White Widow.

It's this particular turf profile. You know, it's cool to see this relationship changing on someone. Is that, that's happening worldwide, right? What do you think about this growing up sort of relationship change? Well, that's one of the big things happening in Europe. I'll use Germany as an example because I'm most familiar with it here, of course. But Germany's government has said that the people in the government who are pushing the legalization have said we want to do two things. We want to protect children and get rid of the black market and protect consumers in general also.

But the two biggest points were getting rid of the black market and protect. children. The point being, you know, the black market, it's illegal, whether they sell it to a 12-year-old or a 20-year-old or a 40-year-old. So they don't care who they're selling it to. So in order to protect the children, you have to get rid of the black market. In order to get rid of the black market, prohibition doesn't work, so you have to legalize it in the end. That's the only option that you end up having, really. And so that's kind of the premise that they started from. But, you know, the side effect of that also is just protecting consumers in general. You know, if the 40-year-old or 20-year-old is going to be using cannabis anyway, they shouldn't have to buy it from Jimmy at the party or from the guy in the

park who gets their weed from wherever and it's covered in chemicals or not. Who knows what it's placed with. Maybe it's, you know, now it's laced with fentanyl and people ODing fentanyl. They thought they're just smoking a joint, you know, and they're dying from a fentanyl overdose. Yeah, which is crazy. So, you know, that's the way you protect consumers by having a clean product and it's only clean if it's a regulated market. And then the side effect long term, not the long term, but a bigger side of that is, then you end up with the products like you said where it doesn't just say 22% THC and 3% CBD. It tells you the turpines and everything else and really allows people to become educated consumers and then they can figure out what works for their particular

needs and what doesn't, you know? One person who's using it for anxiety is going to want something different from the person who's using it for their nonaculency, you know? I mean, they're two opposites. You're not going to, you wouldn't expect it to be the same medication, you know, for each. So that's where, that's a big side effect or benefit. It's called a benefit, not a side effect, big benefit of the, of the regulator and illegal market, is that consumer's going to clean product and can see exactly where they're getting and can make informed decisions. Yeah, I love that. And on some level, I think because there are, the effects can be different to different people.

You know, in the U.S., we have this weird thing where you can like watch television and then see a drug commercial. And they're like, you should ask your doctor about this magic pill. And on some way, like, they just take all the accountability. and they take all the critical thinking out of the decision making and then hand it to people. You know, if you're going to get, if you have, if you're able to self-diagnose yourself, like, you know what? I get really nervous around with people and I go out in these places and I don't have a good time because I'm so worried about thinking about me that I wear the right shirt.

Is that girl smiling at me? Is that going to want to fight me? Your brain is just going ballistic and you know it. And all of a sudden you find a, you can look at the back of this product and understand the TIRP profile. now all of a sudden you're kind of taken back your authority like okay this particular profile works good for me with my stuff here and on some level you know i think that responsible use is a way for people to take back a little bit of their authority with a relationship with substances you know and i think it does that in a way it's like hey human is you're an adult it doesn't take that much to start looking it does take a little courage to self experiment a little bit. There's nothing wrong with that. As long as you do it in a responsible way. I think it's a win-win, man. I hope more people will do that. Yeah, I mean, I think there's a couple different ways

to look at that. I mean, I agree with you to a certain degree, though. Because, you know, right now, a lot of people self-medicate with alcohol, the things that you're describing, or other drugs. And, you know, certainly people like you also mentioned before, self-medicate with cannabis. and giving them the tool, if that's what they're going to do, where they can see, read and first of all, have the information that they can look up on the internet and say, oh, these turpines, I think would help me with the issue I have, whether it's anxiety or sleep or, you know, whatever else. And then they can actually try and experiment along those lines. But I mean, really ideally they would be able to go to someone who's trained, has sometimes mental health or medical training and speak with them and say, here are my issues.

And then that person with more advanced training could then work with them to figure it out instead of them just going to the dispensary and talking to a bud tender who really knows nothing about mental health, you know, except for maybe their own issues and what helps them, but that's not really where good advice should be coming from, you know. So, I mean, I'm glad that the information is there now, but it's not, you know, it's not really the safest route either. I mean, it's better than them just smoking random weed from the park. And sometimes it makes them feel better.

Other times it makes them suicidal because they have no idea what they're getting. And each time it's from a different place, you know. So, I mean, in that case, knowledge, it's definitely power. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, maybe there should be a craft bud place where if you want to buy this strain, you have to show me that you've read the portable young first.

You know. Have you read Brave New World? Because you only buy a Brave New World weed if you read the book. Oh, there's a quiz. I would go to that place, man. That's pretty funny. I mean, it's interesting. I haven't seen it, but I wonder if there are people out there who are doing that.

If they're mental health experts or who are offering those types of services, you know, I have no idea. I mean, I'm not in the U.S. anymore. I haven't been for a number of years. I wouldn't know because that's not something that would be that common of knowledge, but seems like that would be like a little, you know, cottage industry that would slowly build up. Yeah. Also difficult from a medical legal point of view, too. Who knows? But yeah. Yeah. Now we're talking. Like that, there could be some fascinating surveys that could take place, you know,

that kind of straddle that line a little bit. But yeah, I don't know. You know, on a similar note here in Hawaii, like they've, you know, we got a few licenses for people. if you know somebody, you know, like the brother, it's the same thing. The politician's brother gets the license or whatever. But on some level, a positive note that I have seen is that because the black market is so connected and they're so well polished, some of the people are like, look, man, time to bring you guys out of the shadows. You guys are the best people here. You thoroughly understand cultivating. You already have a network.

Why don't we bring you guys up? You guys get a license. And on some level, I think it's a positive thing, like legitimizing this area and kind of bringing these people up, like, look, man, you're already a national business. Why not just do it in the light, you know? And on some level, that can be a good effect, right? Yeah, I think so. I mean, I can see both sides of the coin a little bit.

You know, I think a lot of times the government says no one who is involved in the illicit market is going to be allowed in the legal market because you are doing things illegally. I mean, I get their point, but I mean, the way I would look at it's like you said, you know, they've been, they know the industry. I would say, you know, if you can safely say that they were not involved in violent crime related to this.

Right. I like that. You know, then, then let them get a license as long as they can show that they're going to do it legally from now on. But most people who are growing cannabis are not involved in violent crime. But certainly some people who are higher into bigger networks or whatever are. I mean, if people are involved in violent crimes, I don't think they should be allowed into the legal market personally. But I agree. I mean, give these people the opportunity to become legitimate.

you know and that's actually going that that's a better way to get rid of the black market is yeah right basically you know i mean if you tell all the black market people you can't become legitimate well what are they going to do they're just going to keep doing the black market they're not going to say oh i'm going to become a i'm going to become a teacher now or i'm going to become a cab driver now i mean yeah no it's going to continue doing what they know which is selling weed on the black market you know so um um to me um me, it's the best strategy, you know. Yeah.

Incorporate them in. Of course, some people will come in and replace them in the black market. Of course. If you don't give them an opportunity to get out of the black market, they're definitely staying. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, it's interesting to think about how much innovation happens in that particular market, you know, and I'm not talking about, I think everybody listening here is against the idea of violent crimes or, you know, selling to, you know, selling into abuse and this kind of stuff like that. But there's a lot of innovation that happens with the guy that has been growing, you know, maybe he's a closet grower or something like that. And this guy's got this new strategy with soilless mediums. You know what I mean?

Like, that's the guy that might have some insight on about, that might have the next new thing out there, man. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and, you know, all the, all these strains, the thousands of strains that are out there now, I mean, they were all created in the illicit market. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's where it all came from. So, you know, you can't discount the illicit market because otherwise there would be nothing around today at all.

Yeah. So, and strains, the different strains is what's, you know, what's. important, you know, to treat the different conditions and to try and reach the different people who need it. So one of the things you're seeing a lot here in Europe is that a lot of companies are breeding with their eye on specific conditions and are trying to find strains that match certain medical conditions and are actually doing medical studies to see what works and what doesn't. So it's quite interesting to see that, see that happening, you know. Yeah.

Are you familiar with any studies with THC and blood type? I think there's, I don't, I'm just spitball in here, but my personal opinion is there's something to do with blood type? I haven't seen any studies. I've heard something about that concept before. Really? Okay. I heard something about that before, yes.

But I think it's probably not as much related to blood type as, like you mentioned earlier, 23 and me for genetic testing. I used to actually be involved with some genetic testing companies. And what they started, what they developed a number of years ago was genetic tests where you could actually do a genetic test to see what medications would be effective for you and which wouldn't. One particular panel that was interesting was the one for antidepressants. because for antidepressants, a lot of people, they have to try three or four or five different lines before they find one that works. And each one, you're on for four to six months

before you give up one. You're supposed to be on it for six months. So, I mean, imagine if it's going to take five medications before you find the right one. That's two and a half years before you found a medication that's going to work for you. And that time, most people give up on these medications. So it's not very effective.

So this blood test would say, well, based on your genetics, these medications are more likely to work for you. These are not. And so the same as that works for all types of different medications. It could also be applied to different terpenes and things like that. But first, we'd have to understand more about the terpenes and how they work in the body. Yeah. And so there's there's that basic research that a lot of that is missing to, I think, to make that leap to where you can use genetics to figure out which strain would be good for what you're trying to accomplish. Yeah, it's a great selling point.

If you can come up with the literature to back it up, you know, it could be game changing. If you can figure out that missing link. You know, well, there's a lot of talk these days about the cannabinoid system and it's the system and that has been. been ignored for so long and nobody knows a whole lot about it, but it too is mysterious in some ways. We don't really thoroughly understand how, you know, is it, does it work with psychedelics or, you know, is it, is it, I don't know anything about it. Maybe you could speak to this, this mysterious system that seems to hold the key to a lot of problems. What's your take on it? Well, um, like you mentioned, you know, it was mysterious, uh, for a long time, but now just in the last

few years in particular. I mean, there's been research has been done on it for a very long time since probably the 70s, I think, 60s or 70s, when they first discovered it and we're really looking at it. But now in the last 10, 15 years with things changing in the U.S. and state level, more and more research has been happening into, you know, this very basic science, but it's very complicated. I think as far as getting the groundwork for understanding things. And their science is beginning to really understand a lot better and making new discoveries.

I don't remember what it was, but they just recently came out with a paper about some new discoveries in the endocanibonoid system. God, I can't remember what that was now at the top of my head. But yeah, point being, you know, they're still making basically new discoveries and understanding what all was involved and how it all interacts. Like I said before, though, with turpines and so many different substances or active components in cannabis, how does that all interact?

In my mind, just, I think, a little bit too complicated for us to be able to really be able to plain precisely. Yeah, it's, it's, it's fun to look at and it's, it's fun to imagine what the possibilities are. And sometimes I think that's a big part of it is, is I forgot who said the quote, but life is only stranger than you imagine, it's stranger than you can imagine, you know. And when I started thinking about the possibilities that we can learn and medicine and science and, you know, it's interesting.

You know, I know over here in the U.S. that there was a wave of venture capital that kind of flowed into the world of cannabis for a while. Is that something that's flowing into the world of cannabis over there? Well, I mean, a few years ago, you probably noticed it two to three years ago when the Ukraine was invaded and then that brought on energy crisis in Europe and then inflation. and that kind of the fear spread around the world, and investment dried up around the world in cannabis, but also in almost everything. But that was also, you know, the North American cannabis markets

have been having hard times for a number of years now too. So I think all that came together to kind of slow down the investments in Europe. Plus, there is a lot of enthusiasm about things happening in Europe. and then things slowed down, especially in Germany. You know, Germany came out and said, we're going to do full legalization within two years and all these things. And that kept getting rolled back. And now, hopefully in a few hours, we'll have the first law path

and be moving forward at a much more slow pace, but still moving forward. But now you're starting to see now that Germany is moving forward. And also all these other countries are starting to move forward at different levels in different paces, but things are all, it's all moving forward slowly. You're starting to see a lot more interest in investments in Europe again. And it's in particular from coming from the U.S., from within Europe, but also from the U.S. I know several investment funds that are U.S.-based that are now looking at investing heavily in Europe in the next year or two. So definitely, I think the next couple of years, you're going to see a lot of investment here.

A lot of that depends on the laws that are changing. Germany currently only allows three or four companies to cultivate within Germany. They're talking about opening that completely up and allowing anyone who can qualify for a license to cultivate here, which would bring in a ton of investment. So there's a lot of things that even small changes in laws can bring big investments in because it opens up a lot of opportunity. So, yeah, next few years, I think it'll be very exciting in Europe

with the law is changing, the investments coming in. And as things change, then people want more change, you know. So you'll start to see more citizens, but also companies and influential people pushing for change. So it's going to be very interesting in the next few years for sure. Yeah. You know, it's interesting. I know that in Vietnam, you spoke a little bit about going over there and working on craft beers. I can't help but think about the echoes of prohibition from the past and how this thing was illegal, but then it was made legal. And then you fast forward, and there's these craft beers. And like, on some, I can't help but see the symmetry with legal cannabis on some levels, facing the prohibition now. But in my mind, I can think of, 20 different people I know

there would be perfect craft vendors and have their own brand and stuff like that. Is that something that you think about from time to time or you see the echoes of that? Is that a trend? What'd you take on that? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, you mentioned, you know, prohibition of alcohol in the U.S. I mean, most of the major crime families

and crime syndicates in the U.S. came from prohibition. Hello, Kennedys. Yeah. And all these, you know, the old gangsters. Yeah. And they were all just involved in an alcohol and almost nothing. Then maybe loan sharking and stuff. They weren't really selling drugs and not many drugs are around them anyway.

But still, they were mainly alcohol, you know, and they became billionaires or multi-millionaires back in the day. That started a lot of the crime families. And then the craft beer you mentioned, you know, and you saw it already in the U.S. That you had first a lot of big players. and then he started seeing the craft or boutique cannabis growers coming up. And I think you'll see that happen. And then you saw it also with whiskeys and vodka's are all rough now. I think you're going to see that happening in Europe a lot faster.

I think you'll see a lot of craft cannabis. Once there's recreational, I think you'll see a lot of craft cannabis sprout up pretty quickly. not pun intended. I think you won't do that happen. Just because I think a lot of things follow the U.S., you know, you have craft beer here, you have for a while, but you're starting to see more craft distilleries and things also. So I think the whole craft concept is just a concept

that is going to follow a lot of industries anyway. And I think you'll definitely see that here with the cannabis, which is good because that allows people who, with a passion for a good product and for doing something small, but it costs more, but it's a good, it's a better product, but it's more expensive. But you will find the people who can buy it. It's just not going to be for the mass market, you know, just like there are people who want the Mercedes or the Ferrari and not just the, you know, the Kia.

I drive a Kia, but you know, I'm glad with you. I have one. But other people don't want a Kia. They only want something that's bigger or nicer. And if they can afford it, that's great. Same with cannabis. Not everyone can afford the cannabis that costs twice as much, but some people can and they'll gladly pay it to support that small grower,

but also because they feel like it's a better product. That's a great point. Perceived value, and it's interesting to think how much of a product it can be. You know, I was talking about a friend of mine, an old school grower from California that moved to Hawaii. We got an interesting discussion about soilless mediums. And he's a big fan. My friend Paul, if you listen to and I love you, buddy.

We were talking about soilless mediums, and he threw this giant wrench in the game. He goes, listen, George, anything that's not grown outdoors is dog shit, man. It's not grown. If it's a soilless medium, it's garbage. You know what I started thinking about that like, man, there should really be like a discussion about that. Like I could see a bunch of craft growers coming around us a topic like that

and being just back and forth and hashing this stuff out and on some level. When I asked them, why, I'm like, what are you talking about? And he's like, listen, man, do you realize like everything that's grown indoors is done because of to make it safe and away from pesticides, but also what you're doing is you're taking it away from the very nutrients that brings out the full effect of that particular strain. And his story that really sunk in for me was that as a guy from California who used to grow and have everything indoors, he would focus strictly on THC content and be like,

okay, this is it. And when he finally moved up to Hawaii and bought this farm, he started hanging out with some guys out here and he would do the weed out here. This is weak. But then it would hit his whole body. He goes, you know, it hit me. like, yeah, like the THC is definitely not the content, but there's way more than the THC. My whole body is tingling in particular stuff.

And so he was, he was, has this theory that, you know, the soil is part, is a genuine huge part of the process to help people heal. I know it's kind of controversial kind of way out there, but what do you think about that as a particular debate topic on a future podcast for me? I mean, I think it's interesting, but I, I've, two points i mean i think okay one is i don't know if it helps you heal better you know but i agree i mean i think every input into that plant is going to contribute to that final flower right um and certainly if you're growing at a certain elevation with certain air and certain soil that's going to be unique

compared to growing somewhere else you know i mean compared to grates certain grates certain grates There you go. Yes. Wines are known. Right. Supposed wine connoisseurs can taste where these grapes come from based on, you know, what's in that soil, the metals and the nutrients and the whatever's, you know, in the microbes, everything that's specific to that area. So I think, you know, certainly that's going to have a big effect on that final product. Yeah.

But if you look at like once again using Germany as an example, in Germany, you have to basically grow. currently for medical cannabis indoors and ideally hydroponically because when you in Germany, let's say you bring a product to market. Let's say it's it's it's call it white widow with 22% THC. Then that's going to be registered as white widow 22% after that product is registered, which takes a while and is a process. Now it's legal. but every subsequent time, every subsequent batch that comes into the market with that name has to be within 10% THC value of that original one. Wow.

So let's make it easier. Call it, you know, with a white widow 20%. That means all batches forevermore have to be between 18 and 22.2%. Wow. You can't, you can't map. You can't get that growing outdoors. Sometimes you have more rain, sometimes more sun, sometimes this, sometimes that. Your plants, your batch is different each time.

It's different from the top of the plant to the bottom of the plant, the THC level and everything else. And from one side of your plant, if you grow to the other side. So in order to meet those strict guidelines or not guidelines requirements for the German market, for the medical market currently, you pretty much have to grow indoors hydroponically with artificial light and so on to where you can really

control all the factors to get that close. I'm sure there's going to be grows out there who disagree and that's fine. I mean, I'm not a grower. Right. It'd be proven wrong. But my understanding is that in order to guarantee you can get that close,

you need to really do it under extremely controlled circumstances. or conditions. And the thing is, if you, if that batch doesn't meet your requirements, you can't just turn around and do something else with it. It has to be destroyed. So there goes your whole batch, three months of work, three, four months of work, all on the trash. I mean, you know, that's not a sustainable business model to just go match after batch outdoors and pray that it's going to always be the same because it's not going to be, you know. But that's where hopefully recreational market will be different and have different tolerance.

Because why should it have to be that close, you know, in a recreational market? It should just match what's on your label. Each time you print a new label based on your most recent COA, and that should be fine. But for a medical market, which I can understand, it's supposed to be a medication, and it should be very close to the same each time until you get the same effect. But so for the medical market here, you can't just grow outdoors. But that's where the cross market and recreational market comes in. Man, it's so intricate.

We almost need another classification. You know, I don't know any, in some ways, it's almost like the different difference between when you try to get it like that high. It's almost like the difference between chewing coca leaves and doing cocaine. Like, well, you know, why do you need that high? Like, jeep, just take it easy. It doesn't happen like that in nature. Like, why do you need it that high? Like, it just, it seems to me on some level.

And you know, you know who you should talk to? You should talk to, I'll hook you up with this guy. Sebastian Mar and Colo. A genius. He's recently wrote this book called, um, elevated. Cannabis as a tool for mind enhancement. And him and I were having a conversation not too long ago, where he actually made the parallel between different types of cannabis.

and grapes. And he went on this long, really informative thought storm where he was saying, like, you know, so many people, George, like, you wouldn't keep a bottle of wine out on your table in the sun for like a month and then drink it. It would be bad. You know, it's not going to be right. It's not going to do the same thing for you. Like, there's a whole thing that's happened with the relationship of it. And he goes, so many people do that with Canada. It is leave it out and, like, expect it to still be good. And he goes, in his opinion, like, that's what leaves. And he goes, to a little bit of like the the the greening out or the psychosis type elements of poor thoughts is like yeah because you you got the wrong stuff you let your stuff go bad you know and we just don't know

enough when it comes like super high content like maybe we're making stuff maybe something that high is is the wrong amount to make you work with anxiety or something like that but it's an interesting concept right yeah i mean i i agree uh the high I mean, that's what the market in the U.S. has pushed it. Right. And you're seeing it in Germany in Europe also is that the consumers want higher, higher THC. I think part of it is, you know, the consumer thinks, well, if I'm paying 20, 20 euros for a gram, I want as much THC out of it as I can get it.

Kind of like, you know, when you're in high school and you're drinking and you want the high alcohol content, you know. So, but in the end, it doesn't really work that way, you know? No, not at all. If you're just trying to get high as hell, then, yeah, then that's the way it works. But if you're trying to take care of your pain or your mental health issues or whatever it is, high THC does not necessarily equal better. And there have been studies that have shown that, that actually a more balanced CBD to THC profile is better for most conditions. But that most consumers don't, don't realize that. I mean, I think there's a lot of education that needs to be done for consumers,

for people in the industry, for physicians, for everyone, yeah, for politicians, for sure. Yeah, I mean, I know, I know in Canada, like there's certain laws about advertising because you can get into the, you know, it's like putting candy at eye level for kids. You know what I mean? Like somehow they can do that, but you're not allowed to advertise for certain things. You know, it's, it's so maddening. But, you know, when, when the, the advertising for medical marijuana is done by Snoop Dog and a rap song that just talks about tearing it back so much, like, it's the wrong message, man. Like, it's the wrong message. It should definitely be, and I think that people, I think there's a real opportunity.

here for people that are bringing products to market to work hand in hand with the the science community and the medical community like listen the model of us trying to hit this high THC count is a problem we should find other markers to do that because you know in some ways you're weeding out the people you're right like not everyone has the resources to grow year round without pesticide, without any of these things, they exclude so many people. It's almost like that high THC content is a barrier for entry. And that allows only certain people to play the game. But they're playing a false game because that's not even the effects that you want. Like, it's so much better to have these different levels. And I think it opened up to so much

more people. But I know it's complicated and it's intricate. But it's, I think there's an opportunity for people listening to this. Like there's a real opportunity. to craft a better message that will benefit everybody on some level. Don't you think there is? Or am I just crazy? Absolutely. That's why I was just saying that about the education part. That comes down to by education, you know, that sounds almost too school-oriented.

But, you know, by education, just getting the information and knowledge out to people, you know, it doesn't mean that everyone needs to go and sit for an hour long. of course five days a week for a month but right you know it can be as simple as pamphlets at the dispensaries in the US which you know give you some information about why CHC level is not the only thing to look at you know yeah having bud tenders you know for whatever courses are required for them in different states you know have part of that being that they discuss with their customers that they should look at things like turpines and

CBD and the other lesser cannabinoids and not just T.HC level, you know, and that you can have a much better experience, even if you are just trying to get high recreationally, you can have a better experience with a lower THC, but a better terpene profile, then, you know, then go for the 25% or that makes you just want to curl up and die potentially, you know.

Yeah, I agree. It's fascinating to think about. Dr. I love our conversation, man. This has been really, really fun. And I really enjoy getting to bounce ideas off people and have a conversation with about things I'm passionate about, especially with what you got going on over there with, what's the name of the company. You get EU-Cannett jobs. EU-Cana jobs, yeah. You know, maybe before we land the plane, maybe we could show.

shift back into that a little bit. I want people to not only understand exactly how to get involved with you over there or if they're interested about it, but like I want people to see this is exactly what we're talking about. When we talk about education, not only are we talking about maybe the high THC count is important, but maybe this whole industry popping up, you know, is away adults and people that are interested in it now or there's a guy that really knows how to grow. Like is it what is the appetite over there for growth? I mean, can if there's somebody interested in Hawaii or something like that, do they have a good chance at like getting hired on in a job over there? Or what is there a qualification process? What do you think? Yeah, I mean, right now there's

a lot of still up in the air as far as, you know, what's going to be coming down the road. But right, you know, currently there's already, you know, at least 1,500 companies in cross Europe are probably double that who are involved directly involved in the industry. And you've got growers, you know, but growers are cultivation companies are just a small part of that. Right. Distributors and all these other companies are and processors, extractors, and, you know, everything that goes along with it is involved. So there's all types of jobs. The main, the three biggest job categories currently are sales, marketing, and IT positions, just like in every industry.

Growers, there are occasionally people looking for growers, and we've talked to a lot of people who are growers who would like to come over. So, you know, there's opportunities for every single category or type of job, I would say. As far as people coming from the U.S., Canada, other places, what's happening on a regular basis. You know, there's value in people having, experience in the industry. Obviously, a grower has to have can. Of course, you're a head grower. You have to have cannabis experience. But even other types of people, sales in particular, even if sales are different in the U.S. and Canada, it's still that cannabis knowledge is very valuable.

But you don't have to have cannabis knowledge. It's a relatively new industry in Europe. I mean, it's been legal for seven years in Germany now almost, you know, and some other countries, about as long also, but very small and growing. So companies don't expect that everyone who comes in has cannabis background. But of course, it's nice when they do. So getting into Europe is not always the easiest for a work visa. But coming from the North America, it's relatively easy, at least to come and visit. and then if you are someone with a higher degree or a special skill set,

then companies, if they want, they can apply for visas for you and typically get them. They have to be able to demonstrate why or explain why this person coming from outside of Europe deserves a job instead of someone within Europe. But like said, higher degrees and specialization. usually, you know, is a good enough argument. So anyone who's in North America who's interested in looking, you know, if they can reach out to us and we can, you know, help them look and probably can help them find something. Yeah. You know, I know that here in the U.S., like sometimes there's conventions or they just had the big psychedelic event in Denver.

Is there something like that for cannabis in Europe? Are there, is there like a circuit where people are kind of coming around and building momentum and stuff like that? Yeah, actually, the three biggest are the biggest one is Stannabis, which is in Barcelona. Okay. And that's coming up in a few weeks here. It's mid-March and we'll be there with a booth. And they have about 70,000 visitors. And they have been going on for, like 20 years.

years or something 20, 25 years. It's huge. I mean, 70,000 people, that's as big as burning man. So that is, yeah, that's a really big one. And then in June is Mary Jane in Berlin. And they expect about 50,000 visitors this year. And then Cana Fest is the other, the other really big one. That's also, I think, around 50,000 people. Wow. that's in Prague towards the end of the year, I think early November, if I remember correctly. So those are the three biggest, but you've got tons of smaller events.

Some are more geared to hemp, some are more towards CBD, but there's always some crossover between those anyway. Then you also have a lot of business to business events, which also tend to be smaller, but especially now, kind of an hour is when events and conferences and starts to kick off again

and there's stuff, you know, a couple events every month, if not more, every month. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

You know, if people are interested in cannabis and whether you're working in North America, South America, there'll probably be some pretty great advice to go over there

and start checking out some of these events. Or if they're interested in finding a job through EU Canada, you know, it would be a great place to come over

and shake your hand. and look you in the eye, right? Yeah, definitely, definitely. And, you know, I mean, Barcelona is a wonderful city. It doesn't hurt, you know, it's not a bad excuse to go visit Barcelona, maybe, you know, look at Spain a little bit more or go down to Lisbon where there's a lot of stuff happening there for cultivation or, you know, wherever else you want Europe. But Barcelona is great. It's right on the water.

And what a, you know, it's a great event. Berlin is an amazing city. It's my favorite city on the planet. come here and check out the city and spend a few days at Mary Jane. It's also, you know, or Prague with Canada Fest. I mean, Prague's also an amazing city. So you can't go wrong at any of these events. Beautiful city, nice trip to Europe and get a good event in

and probably make some really good connections. What if somebody was interested in talking to you directly, they're like, hey, man, I want to check out this EU cana thing over here. I got a company. I need some people. I want to list over there. How do they get a hold of you, man? Can people reach out to you and you'll talk to them or how does that work?

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, probably the easiest way is just to find us on LinkedIn and just look for EU Canada jobs on LinkedIn or they can look for me directly, Andy Mansfeld, with the two ends. So you have people free to reach out to me directly or to the company on LinkedIn. Yeah. Well, Andy, this has been awesome. I really enjoy it.

We've got to have you come back. It would be cool to maybe if you're upcoming, we can do some live events together, have more people come in and have a bit more of a discussion. And it's just a cool topic and I enjoy talking about it. I know you're passionate about it. So in the future, we can have some more stuff. That'd be fun. Yeah, yeah.

I would love that. Yeah, definitely. All right. So one more time before I let you go, EU Canada, maybe you could just give one more name of the, shout out the website. the name and where people can find you one more time before I let you go. Okay, yeah. So it's EU Canada jobs.

And you can find us on LinkedIn, EU Canada Jobs, or also you can look for me directly. And the website is just www. www. www.com. And also, you can also just Google EU Canada jobs. You'll find us or even just Google cannabis jobs in Europe. And we usually pop up at the top of the search results for that, for just a generic search. also. Perfect. And go down to the show notes because all the links will be down there as well.

Well, hang on briefly afterwards. I'll talk to you just briefly afterwards. But everybody, I hope you have a beautiful weekend. I hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as we did. Shout out to my friend Griggs and everybody else who was talking out there. Paul, Griggs, Anthony, everybody. Thank you so much for hanging out with us today. I hope you have a beautiful day. That's all we got. Aloha.