TrueLife - Jack Cross - Letters To A Dying God

Episode Date: May 14, 2025

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/Jack CrossToday’s guest walks the line between prophet and poet, mystic and madman. Jack Cross doesn’t just write—he conjures. His words are polemics, hallucinations etched in ink, hymns smuggled out of dreams. Whether he’s invoking God in back-alley verses or decoding the sacred geometry of language, Jack is on a warpath for meaning. This isn’t just conversation—it’s ritual. Buckle up! Directory | Awake.net One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scar's my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark, fumbling, fear. Fearers through ruins maze lights my war cry born from the blaze.

The poem is Angels with Rifles. The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Serafini. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the True Life podcast. I hope everybody's having a beautiful day. I hope the sun is shining. I hope the birds are singing. I hope the wind is at your back.

I have with me today, my friend Jack Cross. Everyone should be checking out the awake.net network. There's an incredible amount of people heading over to that particular platform. Shout out to Lakshmi for setting up something so beautiful and so kind and so rewarding. Check out Jack's work over there. But let me go ahead and just throw out a quick little introduction for my friend Jack Cross here. He walks the line between prophet and poet, mystic and madman. Jack Cross doesn't just write, he conjures.

His words are polemics, hallucinations. etched in ink, hymns smuggled out of dreams. Whether he's invoking God and back alley verses or decoding the sacred geometry of language, Jack is on a warpath for meaning. This isn't just a conversation. It's sort of a ritual for me. So ladies and gentlemen, buckle up Jack Cross. Thanks for being here today, man.

How are you? I'm great. Thanks for that introduction. That's my intent. You know, it's, I think that I can see the intent. And I think anybody that goes over to awake.net and starts reading some of the polemics and starts reading some of your writings, I think that they will also get that intent. And before we got started, you and I were talking about driving. That has been something that both of us did for many years.

And you said it helps you with spatial relationships. And I got to think that helps on language. Maybe you could just unpack that a little bit for people. Well, I kind of realized this about spatial relationships. because I had a tear or a hole in my retina, which when I first started driving for Uber, I drove 70,000 miles with this hole, and then I got a retina repair. And what I saw when I was sort of without vision or impaired vision, where I had a patch on my eye for a few weeks, is you slow.

down and I started to realize why I drive so well is because of my vision and you know I anticipate things in front of me inside of me back of me I see everything you can't be successful as a driver without a comprehensive understanding of what people are going to do and what they ate for breakfast and so I also have a very good memory and I think there's a relationship between memory and understanding spatial relationships. And my psychedelic journeys, you know, we talk about expanding our consciousness, but we don't necessarily think spatially. And we go in these sort of archetypal journeys.

And what I discovered by journey was that I saw things very spatially and structurally. And I saw the relationships between the archetypes and geometry and from geometry to the alphabet, the structure of the letters of the alphabet, which I would. would say that most people think the shapes of the letters are arbitrary, but we don't even think that. People think about words and letters like fish think about water. We don't. But in this altered state, I would see that, oh my God, this thing that sort of Christianity is talking about is actually encoded in the shapes of letters. letters. And at first I thought that this was my hallucination that, oh, this is really funny and coincidental.

And then when I sort of got a hold of being in an altered state, I realized that, no, this is not just funny and it's not just coincidental. This is how it is, and you don't know how it is, and your culture doesn't know how it is. So I started writing down why letters are shaped the way they are. It's not arbitrary. In fact, the idea that someone would create an alphabet and how the shapes be arbitrary is just a ridiculous idea. That wouldn't happen. And so what I realized was that what was happening was I was basically like communing with the mind that created these letters in our culture, which is Christian and Judaic, largely, that's where these shapes come from.

If you look up the phrase English Latin alphabet, for instance, it says it's related to the Semitic language group. And if you look at the word Semitic, it says it's related to one of Noah's son. whose name was Shem. A son is a man who created the alphabet. Shem man. Shem means name. A name is a word.

And a Shem man in my mind is a word man. And a word man, because in the beginning was the word and the word was God. He's a God man. And this is what's happening in this. altered state, I was kind of, I'd see these things in the beginning, and I'd just go, no, that cannot be. That just, that cannot be. I would have seen that on TV. I would hear on the radio.

Somebody would be talking about it. That just cannot be. And so I had a large red dictionary, and I opened it up to, while I was high, to see if we knew this about the shapes of letters. But what happened was all the words just fell apart. And I could see their structure. I could see why they were spelled the way they were. And that words are spelled and a spell is in cast and a spell is a period of time.

And these things about living in a spell made of words and even the nature of time itself all started to become understandable to me in a very cosmic way. And I was seeing, the way I would define it is you're seeing the logos. You're seeing this idea of Christ's consciousness. And the weird thing is that it's inside of the shapes of letters. And my mind was deciphering it in a way that I didn't realize minds

could do. I came to psychedelics kind of late in life. I was 33 and I stumbled on some some ideas and met Terence McKenna at a talk at the Wiltern Theater in Los Angeles. And the way he talked really blew me. And he was like a, he was like a, he was like a, large elf and that's actually what I thought was going to happen when I finally met somebody that had a psychedelic because I grew up very square I grew up as an athlete basically in high school I went to church and ran track and cross-country and taking a psychedelic was like the last thing on my mind the last resort so I thought that I was going to see elves or aliens or something like that.

But instead what I saw was this stuff about language that, oh, how it's made is from maleness and femilness. And it's expressed geometrically as lines in our alphabet, the letter T for instance. is an intersection of a vertical and horizontal coordinate. And how this is forming in your mind, how you're realizing it is you have basically emerged inside of your pineal gland, a cone, and you're disoriented. So how do we orient ourselves?

We try to focus, we squint. And when you squint at light, it, appears to create the configuration of a cross. And in a normal state of consciousness, we just dismiss that because we know it's an optical illusion. Optical illusion, hallucination, bingo. And so I wasn't dismissing it. And I just kind of, my mind kind of automatically threw myself onto this cross made of light in my own mind. And what's happening is you're crucifying yourself on a cross made of light inside of your pineal gland.

All vision is conical. When you look at a distance, things appear smaller. So things are always getting smaller. You're always looking kind of conically. And your pineal gland is a light generating organ. And when you squint at light, that's what it does. It converts the configuration of a cross. and you are on it.

Most people would not consider their being, their mind, their attention, their vision as part of what they're looking at. But I just very naturally did that and realized that we know how to do this. The human mind understands religion in. a different way. You're actually having the experience of crucifixion. We think of it 2,000 years ago, a guy who lived and died and died on the cross and was reborn and all that stuff. That's how I grew up. But when I started exploring this idea with psychedelics, I saw that, oh, that's a myth. That's a language and a story. We tell stories. We passed them through time until somebody gets hit by a car or something bad happens and it rocks their whole world.

And for me, it was taking a psychedelic that, oh, this is a sacrament. I am in making my mind, the mint, see in a whole way. Saccharine means whole, whole mind, holy mind. And so I just, I thought this was pretty important and I started writing it down in an altered state. All that stuff that you read to get that little introduction was written in an altered state. And it's very poetic and funny. To me, it's funny. All the stuff on the polemics of Jack is really written for people with low attention.

spans, because it's very dense. When I first started talking to people about this, they had no context for what I was saying. And if you say a few things, it sounds really weird. But if someone understands the whole thing or they hear it in an altered state, they're like, oh my God, are you talking about this? Yes, that's what I'm talking about. So they start to see. what you're saying and the implications because there is a pattern. But people are not interested in logos largely. They don't really understand what it is. If you look the word logos up in the dictionary,

it is basically saying the logic of word, how word works, or the person of Jesus Christ. And so, what I saw immediately is this idea is something that actually happens to you. And you're, as you comprehend, because that's really what's going on, you're comprehending the significance, the meaning of words. And if God is word, then the letters are his bones. And I kind of felt like what was happening was I was like in a state of geomancy where I was throwing anything but I was reading the shapes of symbols which is not something I would normally do in my former non-sac psychedelic life but I saw that my mind works like that I am deciphering

basically light morphing and that's really the basis of what meaning is in words. We have the word morpheme, M-O-R-P-H-E-M-E, which is defined as the smallest letter to letter, smallest unit of letters that have intrinsic meaning. Well, this idea of meaning is really interesting morph is the word form written backwards where the P and F transliterate and a theme means to speak. So we get meaning from words by form speaking to us. That's how we're supposed to do it. But nobody doesn't like that. They Google it or they look in the dictionary. And Google doesn't know this, even though they're owned by company called Alphabet.

Fate loves irony. Yeah. So I kind of surrender to, oh, your mind sees spatially. So back to driving, yeah, you can't be a very good driver if you don't understand spatial relationships. And these things, like we don't have the idea of a sense. We have six senses and one of them is not spatial relationships. Or if you've ever driven too fast and experienced the sensation of gravity moving in your. vehicle telling you you're about to flip and then you have to be very calm and get this situation under control that's another sense you know in my younger years I would drive pretty fast and and safe but I got in a couple of situations where I could fill this the gravity move

in the car and I was like oh okay better slow down better turn more peacefully but yeah this idea of words and it really connected me to religion in a whole new way from the inside and when I started taking psychics that's really what my goal was to get on the inside of of myself to find a way to have a spiritual life and I I definitely did that you know Terence used to say everybody wants to go faster in life except when they take psychedelics then they want to drag their feet because they'll work and you know nobody wants to walk to New York but when it comes to this death and resurrection idea,

and it's not real popular. People want to microdose. Yeah. I'm a macro-doser. I love it. I love it. You know, there's, I wholeheartedly agree with so much of it. And I, I come to this, I came to a similar idea when, under some pretty deep states, like if you just look at our alphabet, like, the letter is part of a word. A word is part of a sentence. A sentence is part of a paragraph. A paragraph is part of a story. A story is part of a book. When we start looking at the way we're taught, we're taught to think in this incredible linear way. And it's done and like all throughout like first you learn the letter, then you learn the word. But what that's doing, at least in my opinion, is stopping us from having any kind of spatial recognition. It's stopping us from really thinking.

the world symbolically. It's teaching us to see those word as meaning less. It's just a building block right there. Don't think about it any other way. No wonder we're starving for meaning. No wonder there's no more poetry except for a few people on the fringes putting stuff out there. No wonder people are searching for a life beyond themselves. Like we have been starved of meaning our whole life and it's coming from the way we teach ourselves to speak. What are you thoughts? Well, one thing that needs to be understood is largely we are educated with public education. It's also called compulsory, meaning forced. So we are forced institutionally to learn a certain way.

And the reason that, like, if I were to teach English, I would start with its geometry. from maleness and femalness expressed vertical and horizontal ordinance designated y and x y and x and genetics are male and female that's the foundation male and femilness and basically what's happening in your mind is one side of your brain sort of sees in a visual way and the other side is abstractive it gives meaning to vision and you're joining them together in an altered state. That's so beautiful. Yeah.

So then there's the shapes of letters and then there's morphemes. And morphemes, because of its definition as the smallest unit of letters that have intrinsic meaning, basically is like a rule. It's like, don't look beyond this. If you want to know why a word has meaning, look at the morpheme structure. You can look up what morphemes mean, but you cannot look up why they mean it. And the reason is, is because it's religious. And a public school controlled by secular fiction has no interest in you having a religious

or spiritual perspective of language because the whole question about government, govern to steer, meant means mind, is. their gig, their entire thing, is to steer your mind and control you. Government has no function but this protection racket. And so, you know, if you understand language, if you understand the word, if you understand the tree of knowledge and of good and evil, it creates. a crisis of authority. The state claims its authority from the people, our state, which is a great farce, manipulated by the media.

The MED of media means middle, like the MED of medicine and meditation. and the media, the middle, has really betrayed the people. And you're hearing that. The media is the enemy of the people. And, you know, if you saturate yourself in narratives and see what a linguistic device is, you can see what's going on. And it's amazing what's going on.

It's incredible that you can get adults in suits with reputations and degrees to go on TV and lie through their teeth. Wow. So, yeah, that's why English, which I like to call English, is taught the way it is. It's very superficial. And, you know, I've never been a teacher of children. I'd probably breakdance with him in the room. But that's the way I'd go. But it would create great difficulty for, I think, the state.

State as a secular fiction and even theocratic fictions, really what they're up to is perpetuating themselves. They're not about your enlightenment. They have no, that's the last thing they want. Yeah. They don't want anybody walking around saying like, you know what? I think this is all kind of bullshit. What is this history?

This is his story? What is this? Who story is this? Yes. Yeah. And also it's a, it's a wild thing to have a psychedelic mind and start to dissect. I mean, it's something that your mind does. We, we crave for meaning.

I'm not sure what Maslow's hierarchy of needs are, but I would put meaning at the top. And what I like to say is in mathematics, the word mean means middle. And there is no middle without a set of coordinates, which is the symbol of a cross. And so you kind of have to start with that. Or, you know, people say, I need my space.

Well, when you find your space, you need three ordinance to locate yourself in space. It's just a very simple thing. And an ordinary mind would never project themselves onto a cross and add themselves to what they're seeing. That's just ridiculous. You need to be in an altered state to, I mean, an theogenic altered state with this type of intention to understand that the geometry that you're seeing is symbolic mathematics. And there's this relationship to the shapes and mathematics. And you're basically seeing the math of consciousness, of Christ's consciousness, the peak of it. I love that. Like I think to a lot of my audience, and I'm sure you and in some of the circles we run in, it's so amazing to see the sort of geometrical images, sometimes open-eyed, sometimes closed-eyed at the height of a really high dose of an entheogen. It's it is a language on some level. And it's, you know, it's the thing they call ineffable. But it is this sort of beautiful paisley-filled tesseract that's just,

speaking to you in ways that are beyond words. And I think that that is sort of where these insights come from. In your opinion, what is these geometrical images we're seeing in these altered states teaching us how to make connections in the real world? Can you talk about that language of the geometry of these states? Well, yeah. I mean, for me, they are helping me understand the quote-unquote real world. Yes.

As in, you know, we use these words, but we really don't understand what we're saying. In the case of real, for example, R.E. Raw. The sun comes up again and again and again. R. E means again. And AL is a morpheme. It's the base morpheme of language. And what it is is your pineal gland is the letter A, which philologist called a ox's head because it first appeared like upside down like this to the right. And they thought the legs were like horns.

And they said it looks like an ox's head. And so we've been repeating that for a long time. No, it's not ox's head. It's your head. And the L of language is the upper right-hand quadrant of the cross that you are creating while trying to understand what you're looking at. This is the feature of a cross, and it's the one down here and this one over here. And so we use this thing. And together, this L and A are a compass and square.

And what you're doing is you're measuring re-el-el. relationships in everything. So you have this geometry that has informed you, like this is in formation, morph means form. Form is a real thing. We're deciphering and understanding form and the spatial relationships of form

in relationship to our mind and how it works and how light works. this is the sort of the relationship with this idea of I am the light of the world or the idea of light the sun S-O-N-S-U-N it's you know somebody a long time ago was paying attention to this where it wasn't lost and it wasn't a dismissed thing it was part of like what Terence calls the felt experience of your life it's it's it's here in our lives and we're in it. We're awake in it. You know, when I first started taking psychedelics,

I saw them as a tool of becoming spiritual that somehow I could get inside my body. And I think the smallest poem I ever wrote was this is it. We're doing it now. It's happening all around us. And all of the

construction of civilization is based on these ideas and people are unaware of it. People today want to destroy it. They have no idea even what it is. Non-binary, you don't understand biology. You don't understand this idea of two. Why is the second letter of the alphabet a B? Why is that the beginning? Why does it have these two lobes? So to measure something, you need two things. One cannot measure itself. One just is.

And so in like crucifying myself, which is a very natural thing to do, on a cross made of light inside of my pineal gland, as strange as that sounds, that's how I found this idea of this L.A. morphine, the compass and square.

If you look compass and square up in the dictionary, it says there are instruments of measurement belonging to a carpenter. Well, you can read that out here in the world and you can go, okay, but in an altered state, you know who the carpenter is. It's you. You're the carpenter. You crucified yourself on a cross made of light in your mind, found the carpenter's tools, the compass and square, and are now measuring everything. And that totally informs your entire life. People are, impaired, you repair, what are the pair? Nobody ever asked.

So true. Yeah, it's maleness and femalness. It's spirit inside of matter. It's the sacred masculine and the sacred feminine, joined together in your mind by the letter J, which is basically a third ordinate. And it's an eye tilted to the right. If you look it up in the dictionary,

it says ostensibly, which is a fantastic word. It is an eye tilted to the right, and the French put on what's called the minuscule at the bottom to differentiate it from an eye tilted to the right. Ostensibly means purportedly, not actually. The minuscule at the bottom is a mimic of the Pharaoh's crook. in ancient Egypt, the crook, which is held like this on the sarcophagus, is the supreme symbol of religious authority.

And that's why I talk so much about the letter J, the 10th letter of the English Latin alphabet. These things are funny because they are, for instance, the letter J, it wasn't placed in that position arbitrarily. It was placed in that position for people like me to laugh, to have a good time in an altered state that, oh, this is why the Buddha laughs. This is what's going on. Jesus begins with a J, Joshua, wise transliterate into Jays, dies on a cross, vertical and horizontal coordinates. The punishment is archetypal.

There's lots of ways to kill people. Why would you go through this thing of taking wood and creating crosses? Because you are mimicking. It's an archetypal punishment. You're mimicking who this person is. And you're seeing in your mind that what it does is decipher the meaning of myths that are passed down through time in stories. It's like Christmas. We bring a Christmas tree in the house, a pine tree.

Pine trees are conifers. I'm talking about pine neil lands. Pine, A-L morphine. We get our presence from the base of pine trees. Guess what grows at the base of pine trees and symbiotic relationships with. We wrap the phosphenes of the sacrament around the pine tree. We have a five-pointed star or an angel at the top of the pine tree.

why the Christmas ornaments all that which I guess you know pure Christianity whatever that is considers all of that pagan well Christianity is merged with nature it is it's the same thing it's the church once again trying to superimpose itself upon natural and astronomical reality that you now in an altered state start to decipher that oh okay we're on a sphere flying through space and there's these stories

and you're becoming that thing you know the in the anybody that's really interested in this type of journey of perspective. I would just say that mine started by seeing these things kind of naturally, just organically. I started writing poetry because I would see these things. And I did it in my youth too because I, you know, I can sort of see the continuity of just me as a person, as a child. I used to have these things where

it's funny because you were saying you were playing Pink Floyd where well there's this song that talks about seeing something out of the vision the peripheral vision of his mind. Well, I used to have that experience

when I was a child and my conscious mind would see it and I would like hold my breath and my conscious mind would like turn to see what I was seeing inside of my own mind that I thought was so outrageous, but my normal awareness would cause it to dispel. So I would have to kind of trick myself like in a dream. I would say like this is a good dream and I would try to remain asleep in the dream. And so I I kind of see that people

were magic at once when they were children. And this magic was discarded to become adults. But in our culture, our cult, becoming an adult is not, it's not something that happens in a good, loving way. initiation in its I ate initiation into adulthood in Western civilizations are humiliation rituals yeah we humiliate people it just if they're dumb enough to be in our club and so you know I saw by taking psychedelics I was initiating myself I was

baptizing myself. This was no longer symbolic. This is it. And I realized real late in life, like 33, 34 years old that, yeah, it's because of psychedelics

that I am becoming an actual adult, a man. And so that's a good thing to be a man for. that you have been able to commune with God. The ultimate sin.

That's what you're crucified for. Even saying it, you know, in our culture, it's something that happened a long time ago to this one dude. But I'm here to inform you that's a story. There's a reason story begins with an essence. and a T, a pictogram of a serpent tree. I like to say that these are the first two letters of structure, and they're hiding in the middle of mystery.

So beautiful. And at the end of quest and Christ for a reason, because at the end of your quest, you are not questing. You're not searching anymore. You are the serpent and you are the tree, and you're crucifying yourself on a cross made of light. And in those moments, you have this sensation of transcending time. What is the promise of Christianity?

Eternal life. Where is eternity? It's not at the end of linear time. It's here right now. And that's why I say, this is it. We're doing it now, right now. So, yeah, time is a big factor. This is the interest of wizards in time.

Let me shut this window. Yeah, no worries. It's St. Fargo, but somebody's out there cutting a tree. So, yeah. Yeah, it, it reminds me of the gospel of Thomas, where he talks about our kingdom is all around us. You know, it's, it's, my father's kingdom is, is all around us. us and nobody sees it. I think he's referring to language on some level there. Like it's all

around it. You're making it. You are it. Yeah. But it's so it takes a lot of courage to die to yourself. It takes a lot of courage. And sometimes you'll be lucky enough to have the world take everything from you. That's your, that's the initiation. You know, that is your your opportunity to rebuild a relationship with language that you've never had before. Is that, is that seem like a fair thing to say? Or what are your Totally. Yeah. What is fair? Fair is middle. And there is no middle without these ordinance. So it is fair. And this is what I point to people to is that there the letters are artifacts of an altered state. their abstractions of an altered state, they're taken apart. The ST, the serpentry is the thing that is happening to you. And the AB, the alphabet is the negation of AB in front of a word,

like we're having an abnormal conversation about the alphabet, is not normal. This is not a normal conversation. What people also don't realize is that speech, alphabets, language. It is all metaphysical. It's not physical. It's spiritual. This is its connection with God. The word is God. And it's, you know, the letter C is related to the letter G. And if you look at the word code and just knock the E off, What you're seeing is that God is embodied in the shapes of the letters,

that are the bones of the words that you are at some late time in your life discovering, oh, my God, there's meaning in the shapes of letters. Like who doesn't look at a car and see the masculinity or femininity of, the shapes. We do this all the time. I mean, as a man and as an old man now, I understand geometry. I understand beauty. I understand the feminine.

And I do it from the masculine perspective because I'm a guy. Of course. One time, this is bring something funny up. One time I went on a journey on five grams, Cecil Seyvan with Lakshmi and another girl in what's called the Pruna Weep in Zion National Park. and we parked our car on a deer trail and we walked down the sandstone thing about a mile into this creek and then we started walking on the creek and we ate the mushrooms at the car and we thought we were

going to go on a hike nope we were going to sit down and as these things started as the journey started to wear off a little bit we realized it was getting dark and we really weren't prepared for this and I grabbed their packs and said, let's go. We're out of here. I was like death con too, death con too. Let's go. And we walked up the stream, it was a dry creek. And I realized, oh my God, we walked on sandstone. There's no trail. There's no nothing. And, but I found my steps where we came off we turned left I won't I walked straight to the car and this girl said can you drive and I said I don't know I sat down in the seat and I said oh my God I'm a guy this is fantastic and so I drove five miles on this

dear dear road to the regular road back into Springdale really funny. Yeah. I remember being up, me, my buddy Craig, and my sister one time. We went to a dead show

at Autum Stadium. And a great show ended up picking up a sheet of blotter. And we stayed on the way back, we stopped off at these state parks. And I'll never remember. Like,

I'll never forget that like, you know, we've been dosing quite a bit back in those days. And so we had a little bit of a tolerance. And I took a pretty big dose, man, took like a five strip. And then we were,

we had, way out. And we were out, like, I think it was at Castle Crags, like, way up in Northern California. I remember just being like, it was so beautiful. Like, I remember, like, walking. There's this tree that had fell down and braced these two parts of the canyon. And, like, I walk across it. And I was just, it was so magical.

But then we're sitting with my friends that were sitting down. And then, like, I looked down and I realize, I don't even see a trail. I have no idea where I am. You know, I just looked down. And I'm like, hey, guys, no, like what? I'm like, do you see a trail down here anywhere? It was like, dude, we have no idea. You know, but to be totally lost in nature, there's something so magical about it.

I mean, we were at the campground. We were probably about a mile or two away. And, you know, we just waited for things to sort of slow down a little bit. And we found our way back. But there's something so magical about being lost in yourself in the world of nature and understanding what the environment is telling you, you know, decoding language or decoding the environment in a way that is beyond language. You know, there's no words.

You know, sometimes you can't even speak at the heights of these trips. You're just bha-ba-ba-da. You know, you're just mumbling things, you know, but somehow everyone knows what you're saying or they think they do. But it's a real exercise in communication and language and understanding your environment. So it is a great story, man. And I, it's not for the feign of heart.

Like, it's hard to lose yourself. It's really difficult to be completely lost in an altered state of consciousness in a strange place and it's probably not the safest thing either. But for those willing to do it, I think you can get a real exercise in language and understanding and communication. But it takes courage. Yeah, it's just beautiful.

And like an experience like that, what I learned was I am confident. I am going to find my way out of this. Yes. And people are relying on me to do it. Yep. And, yeah, there's a lot of self-discovery in those experiences. Most of my journey has been on my living room floor.

Yeah. And it's safe. That's what I want to be able to be alone. Go alone. Yeah, Durning inside where I, I, almost all of my, journeys have been with the itching and the dictionary and I have seen this outrageous mind in the itching and and in the dictionary that how our words are constructed you know I look at the world today and it is such a mess it is

so incredible if we get out of this without nuking ourselves it will be an absolute miracle and we need a miracle and what I I think is the fundamental risk of our civilization is this idea that we don't take sacraments we don't we have made the key to our existence illegal because we're being operated by secular fictions And so, you know, having greater intelligence, which is what you get is so critical. Crucial is the word. You need a cross. And we're at a crossroads in this country and in the world.

And it's going to be very fascinating to see if. this shit show can straighten itself out because it is incredible what is going on. I really look at psychedelics and altered states, the sacramental experience, in theogenic experience, as the solution. The answer, my friend, is still blowing in the wind. And it's, I feel so great. that I stumbled on this idea, that these things that I consider drugs or sacraments in my youth, or drugs or, I don't know why I thought, psychedelics, whatever that word meant to me,

are not what society would have us believe. Society would have us believe a lot of things, and this is what psychedelics are also good. for is unraveling all the cultural programming. Yes. Because you see that the human mind and the human body and nature, being in nature, it has a different program. Just reading the I Ching from a Western perspective, you see something else. Like for me, the way I grew up, I'm always going forward. Progress is always moving forward. I see in the Qing, not so much.

And that this person, this writer, is coming from an arbiter position of the whole thing and showing the sequences and consequences of action. And that is real mind-boggling, that this can be written down. Jack, what do you think? Like you saw like the last wave of psychedelics, you know, like are we in the late 50s heading into the 60s? Is it is the best predictor of future behavior, past relevant behavior? Is there a, is there a, you know, what do you see as far as similarities happening with this particular wave that happened in the last wave or maybe some of the differences? What are your thoughts on how this thing shakes out?

Jeez. To tell you the truth, I feel disappointed in psychedelics, in the psychedelic culture. I feel disappointed in the monetization of consciousness, the monetization of the sacred. When I first started this and discovered it, that's not what I thought was going to happen. I I believed and still believe in this archaic revival of Terrence McKenna. I think that's our only salvation

as a species, whether it's technological. We have to know ourselves in a deeper way. And, you know, I'm sure there are benefits to microdosing. I don't know what they are. But I am. I would say people need to love themselves and love an idea of God, think that it's possible and have some courage. You know, I didn't smoke marijuana. I didn't drink. I didn't, I've never even smoked a cigarette. I was very anti-drug and largely still am. But I see that these sacraments are the way out and the way in.

And people have to face themselves and they're not going to do it on social media. They're not going to do it in a totally surveilled world. It's I mean we must be very interesting creatures to want to surveil every single thing that we do So I You know we'll see I I think ultimately I need to be an optimist for me myself and I It the experience has been so powerful and so transformative for me that this is where I live and I've taken many, many, many, many, many journeys. And I love that space.

And I, you know, I hear this kind of idea about integration. Well, folks, what you're doing is you're going into this altered state and you're grabbing stuff. You're saying it out loud. You're writing it down. you're becoming functional in this altered state because it's I think to most people not even comprehensible that anybody would want to write anything down in an altered state because you can for some people barely function and a lot of people come out oh that was that was beautiful that was outrageous that was terrible we're going to do this again what time is it when can

I do this again but I look at it like a job I like to journey and take things out to tell people that don't have the courage to do this. And most people don't. The number of people, the percentage of people in America, for instance, I think it's like 1%. And I have never spoken to anybody about, that knew anything about this logotic idea, that letters have shapes and shapes are geometric and geometry symbolic mathematics and there is a relationship between English of all things, not Sanskrit, not Hebrew, English, our language, to spirituality. And so what I do is when I talk to people, I concentrate mostly what you see in the polemics is

on just a few morphemes because this is complex. You know, one of the phrases that our culture has for this type of understanding is Christ complex or Messiah complex. They basically have turned it into a pathology because of our dualistic polar religion, that this thing exists as a pathology. PAT, Pater, father, the study of the path to the invisible, your dis-ease. Okay, you can call it a pathology. I'll call it a path. And what, you know, I no longer let myself or my knowledge or my perspective be defined by the ignorant.

you know you maybe have had experiences where you're talking about psychedelics or you say some strange thing to somebody oh you must be high you must be you must be smoking something you know all these pejoritans well I know I know why there's a JN pejorative and that's you know it's it's really funny to think about psychedelics of being lumped in with narcotics and and for very good reasons. Narcotics are not that much of a threat to a secular fiction. But psychedelics are because sentience is the opposite of the secular. Secular, not sacred, fiction, not true. The body that makes these things illegal is not sacred and does not exist.

It's an agreement between people and those people are completely ignorant. although they knew enough to protect themselves from this experience. I see it going on every day. Take the case of Iboga and Ibigame. We have a cure for addiction. In this country, we're experiencing two Vietnam wars every year. 100,000 plus people are dying. unnecessarily from fentanyl and everything else.

It's completely unnecessary, but the secular fiction will not accept Iboga and Ibegain because of its psychological effects. It's a two-front thing as sacraments are. it's part sacrament part medicine the medicine is changing you physiologically resetting your dopamine receptors

to a predictive state and you are simultaneously seeing what has made you addictive why you are addictive and the state and chemists, they would like to play with this idea and they would like to play with LSD,

figure out a way to make LSD beneficial without communing with God. This is the whole thing of the psychedelic what's going on with maps. This is about the monetization of ecstasy, MDMA. Well, There is no ecstasy without God.

So you better get used to this. You can't do it. It cannot be done. There is no ecstasy without God. There is no X. X, X, 10, Roman numeral for 10, a criss cross, Christ Christ Christ, cross, intercardinal ordinance. In relationship to what? in relationship to cardinal ordinance.

The cross and the Chris cross, the Christ cross is you. It's the third ordinate turned at 45 degrees going out. You know, we exit when we leave. We enter, we enter a cross, and we exit when we leave. It's all there in our words. And, you know, you really start to see when you look at the geometry of it, the significance of not only words, but are existential. Our X is tenual situation. Yeah, you're in a body and you're going to die.

That's a fact, Jack. But in the meantime, you can commune with that. the two hemispheres of your own mind. You can join them together. You can climb Jacob's ladder. This is why I thought this J and the L.A. Morphine. So important. I call these two things,

these two morphemes, JA and LA, the key morphemes, I guess besides S&T, of the English Latin alphabet because you need them to spell Jacob's ladder. And that's really what I'm talking about. I'm writing on Jacob's Ladder. And the,

so the A is your pineal gland and the J is the pole inside of it like this. That's the minuscule. And the L.A. morphine is the compass and square. And you are entering your pineal gland and measuring everything and you're measuring yourself and this is the healing part of metal sin that the middle sin man is that you see your past you see your consciousness you see your child consciousness you see your consciousness in every iteration and you have to deal with that what an idiot

you know like oh and you know in psychedelics I really feel like there's a before and there's an after and that's that's the fulcrum of my life before and after psychedelics and so you know this question back to your question psychedelics are powerful and they're going to be here long after maps is trying to understand the definition of legend, which means saint. It's how you read a map. It's best to read the map from a place of enlightenment. You know, essay of saint, legend means saint, is the base morpheme of shaman, S-A-man. I'm saying stuff or saying stuff.

S-A-Y, knock the Y off. You're a say-man. You're saying it's related to language. And I-N is a directive in and T's a cross. The saint is the word, a spirit in a cross.

That's the saint. And it's best to speak about the nature reality from that place not being completely ignorant of how language works l a n g and g is a morphine meaning nosis the knowledge of the l a morphine the compass and square you found it you crucified yourself you found the comfort the compass and square you realized what's going on how this works to whatever degree and you're on the path of

embodying it personifying it. It's like the spirit of the word has entered you, entered your mind and now you are becoming the personification of word logos this Christ consciousness

idea that was an idea. We have ideas. We have implications. Oh, we're doing this out here deductively. This state of consciousness is not deductive. It's a disintegration of who you are so far and reintegration into what you just saw. You now have this cosmic metaphysical information of, you know, whatever it is.

It could be one thing that you bring out of an experience. So I am not happy with the way things are going, with the monetization of psychedelics. But that will pass. And humanity will go. on and it will flower again. I see how they shed it down in the 60s. I mean, the state, the secular fiction, was totally threatened by what was happening.

And so the CIA introduced heroin. At the time, we were fighting in Vietnam. Air America and CIA went over to Colombia and Laos and bombed the tribes. the triads and made a deal with one of them and picked up all the heroin and flew it into the United States and distributed it to the black community to destroy them. And it affected the 60s, the psychedelic movement. That was for a moment a renaissance of the archaic. And you know, it's still going on in our minds and hearts.

But I am not into the monetization aspect of psychedelics. I'm also not so much into the AI advent. Although we use AI to make images. But I can do the math of AI. And I see it's bias. try to talk about psychedelics on AI. It will not allow it. You know, it's created by people.

It has its bias. And I kind of feel a little bit like Job in the Lawmore Man. That's a great movie. Yeah. Getting inside the mainframe. and and what does Pierce Broson say? Job!

Don't you understand that psychosis and Christ's consciousness is the final stage of psychosis? Yeah, right? Yeah, psychedelics have nothing to do with psychosis. In fact, because consciousness, high consciousness, is so

forbidden. these are the accusations made. It's it's the secular fiction and the theocratic fiction protecting itself from what it is preaching but brought into your mind into time. You are you are the story and it is a projection. Good and evil is the projection of the human mind. It's not a story out here. Well, it is a story out here, but what you see is that it's a story out here because it's a projection of the architecture of our mind, which began in a garden with a sacrament, with an invisible sacred masculine and a serpent and a male and a female. Take all that apart and you have your mind.

Story begins with a nest and a tea, a serpent, and a tree. It's just the way it is. It's so beautiful to me to think about the shape of words, the language we use, and also to see the spells that are put on us. I was thinking yesterday, I think everybody in the world of PTSD has it wrong. Like, if you're studying PTSD, like, you are trapping people in a disorder. Like, how can anybody ever get out of PTSD? Why don't we call it, like, post-traumatic growth opportunity? If we change the language around it, you know, if you have a disorder, all of a sudden it's your fault, you have this disorder.

And, you know, you don't understand the language of it, but doctors and the society and they're really happy to trap you in a disorder or something out of the DSM5. Like here's this label, carry this thing around now, buddy. You know, I'm like, you're stuck with this thing. Like, but what if it's not a disorder? What if it's a growth opportunity? That fundamentally changes all the therapy going forward. But too bad, you already have an industry built around. it. And then you start thinking yourself, oh, it's not a bug. It's a feature. We want the disorders,

because then we can have the doctors, and then we can have the nurse, and then we can have all these people making money around this one individual. And let's go find more people that are sick. This guy has it. Now this guy has. Now this girl has it. Look at all this money coming in. This is fantastic. But it just ruins us. Like, just change the language of diagnosis. Let's change the actual and call it what it is. It's a growth opportunity. Congratulations. Now you can have the ritual. Congratulations. Now you have an opportunity to become the person you're supposed to. Like, it's not a bad thing. And everyone has it. We're looking at it like it's a disaster. Like, it's an awakening. Like, look at this. This is amazing. Right. Yeah. It's something that you have

to move through. It's a spiritual opportunity. Psychedelics in a way, you know, high doses are at times absolutely terrifying because you're a person. The way I looked at it was when I started seeing this alphabetic stuff which is almost immediately I thought

oh you were in so much trouble you are seeing something that no one knows about and and you're, I mean, you have archetypes, you're seeing religion, you're drenched in geometry. I mean, I've had to get to the bathroom by filling the wall. You know, where is the bathroom?

One time I, for some dumb reason, I moved the entire bed over to the stereo. That's so awesome. When I came down, I was like, why didn't I just move the stereo? Mr. Spatial Relationships. But, yeah, I mean, look at the idea of crucifixion. This is not like an easy thing to do in our culture. It's a pretty bad thing. And so there's a resistance for people.

That's why I think people microdose is they want to be part of the psychedelic movement. They want to be psychedelic. They want to be mind manifested. But taking small amounts does not manifest your mind. It may have some beneficial aspect. But it is not a mind manifested. spirit, soul manifested situation that you now as a ordinary person, average Joe, have to deal with. And that's, you know, it's like jumping on a freight train and realizing that you've got to make it up to the engine because there's no one there and you don't know how to drive this thing and you get in there and you realize, oh, we do.

do know how to drive this thing and we're going to be okay yeah this this was this was our job in the first place and that my entire miserable pathetic life was a trick to get me to do this it's so true man it's so true yeah um but you know it's good uh it's good to have fear it's good to be responsible and be concerned about things the two things the two things things that I was interested in when I discovered, I mean, on the practical aspect of psychedelics was that they were not addictive and that the LD50, which I knew nothing about, is extremely high. You're not going to die by taking mushrooms. So those are my two concerns. And I thought, well, whatever this is, I'm going. I, you know, Terence, I also, in the beginning,

What really happened to me is I was in a reference library and I stumbled on the sacred mushroom in the cross. Yeah. And I read the first three chapters in the library as a reference library. And I walked out there with my hair on fire. And I hired a book buyer to finder to buy the book for me. And then I started reading everything I could on ethnobotany. And because I was so square, I mean, I didn't know a single person. And I would talk to my friends and all of which I lost all I lost all my friends and I was a

yuppie at the time. I owned a bunch of messenger services in California and after nine months I finally had somebody have mercy on my poor soul and I bought 10 grams of mushrooms and I took five on a Saturday night and that was it. I could not believe that that could happen to me. And I saw all of this really funny stuff around language, and I laughed the entire time. I thought it was absolutely hilarious and coincidental. But I could not speak. And my girlfriend at the time was taking care of me, which I thought was absolutely ridiculous.

And I had this inceive. of my diaphragm quivering in my stomach, you know, above my stomach. And I thought the next time I do this, I'm going to push it down with my breath to try to get this laughing under control. And that worked. And then all of a sudden it wasn't so funny anymore that you're seeing things that you don't know. You're not supposed to know. Your society doesn't want you to know.

and you're understanding polarity, you're collapsing polarity. You know, in our stories we have the protagonist and the antagonist. In religion, we have the devil and Christ, and they're coming together, and you're realizing that you're it. This is a projection of good and evil. The devil is the shaman. The Christ is the shaman, and you're it. all of the roles. These are all made up. They're all projections of human consciousness.

We've we've diced them up. We've dismembered ourselves and our wholeness. These are my two favorite motifs, crucifixion and dismemberment and remembrance. And rememberment. And M.E.M. in Hebrew is a wave represented by water. This is why we're baptized in water to remember what we are. And that's why I say I baptized myself, I initiated myself. I crucified myself because there's no one in the world to do it for you, not even anybody to tell you this is what it's about.

This is the secret of secrets. Yeah, it's beautiful. I want to get to a couple comments here and then we will figure out what we got going on. But let me just get these people on board right here. Robert, Sean Davis, you are a mastermind. Thank you so much. Can't wait to talk to you? Here's what he says.

He says, very thankful for all the precious and amazing articulations being shared. You're both incredible teachers, clearly being utilized to share with them. Thank you for the compliment. While there are many overlays to describe reality, I would submit that there are further dimensional layers. that exist to stimulate the entanglements that offer higher levels for navigation. Even the chaos in the world today will be subjected to radical miracles for reconciliation. It appears no matter how high up the ladder we climb, our empathy adapts to the awareness level of, I'm sorry, new comment.

Thank you, Robert. AI adapts to awareness level of the user on a special relativity basis. mind-blowing and even minimal time can overcome perceived bias factors. It is pure representation of the dimensional separations of our entanglements and often acts as a mirror of the mask of our identity projections towards power, structures, and possibilities. Robert, Sean Davis, this is why I love you, man. This is mind-blowing to think about.

And I know that I'm kind of coming up on a hard break right here. And it always happens when I'm right in the middle of an epic conversation. Jack Cross, this has been amazing. I know that this is the first of many conversations we're going to have, but before I fully land the plane, where can people find you? What do you have coming up and what are you excited about? They can find me at Awake.net or J-A-X-Cross at g-mail.com. If they want to talk about letters or anything. we have one thing coming up at Awake,

which is a talk about Ibegain, an addiction during the Maps conference. 17th, right? Yeah, you can check that on Awake.net. We're putting together the speakers right now. That's about it. We're just working on our website all the time and we have addiction coaches,

and we're talking about consciousness, the alphabet, all the various aspects. So that guy, are we going to talk about that? We're going to run out of time. I'm actually got Patrick and Michelle coming right up after this. So I think they're going to be speaking on Iboga at the event on the 70s. Okay, yeah, right. Okay.

But yeah, we should definitely get together and talk about this. We should bring Robert on. I'll contact you guys together. He's amazing. He's one of us. He's an amazing guy. Right. I likely said.

He said it very succinctly. And hopefully it's like the movie sphere. It's like a reflection. Again, we created it. It's a projection of our consciousness. Right now it happens to be pretty ridiculous. So, okay. It's so true.

Jack is a brilliant conversation. I truly appreciate. of the stuff you're writing about. I really enjoy the conversation. We'll come back and we'll do more. And I think that people should be aware of awake.net. Like, it's really on the, it's about to blow up, in my opinion. There's so many incredible creators over there.

And Lakshmi and yourself, thank you so much for putting it together. I can't wait to start carrying much more of my content on that side. So, ladies and gentlemen, Jack, hang on briefly afterwards, but everybody else within the sound of my voice. I hope you have a beautiful day. Go check out Jack's links and that's all we got for today. Aloha. Thanks.