TrueLife - James Wilson - The Three Fold Path

Episode Date: February 10, 2024

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/https://coexistingopposites.squarespace.com/James Wilson stands as a pioneering guide for entrepreneurs, integrating their Life and Soul Purpose into a successful and meaningful business with the profound insights of Human Design. As a 1/3 Emotional Authority Projector Right Angle Cross of the Unexpected 1, James advocates for the innate ability of each individual to chart their own course, utilizing Human Design as a foundation for personal and professional development. His Human Design Entrepreneurs 90-Day Self-Exploration RoadMap embodies his philosophy of self-leadership and the power of self-guidance, devoid of external agendas.At the core of James’s practice is his dedication to facilitating conscious embodied awakening and whole-being realization along the three-fold path of consciousness, embodiment, and mutuality. Having experienced this profound transformation himself, James is passionately committed to guiding others through their own journeys. He emphasizes mutuality as a new groundbreaking field of awakening, moving away from traditional spiritual doctrines that prioritize following a predetermined path. James fosters an environment where individuals are encouraged to trust their own internal wisdom.James’s spiritual path was significantly shaped by his encounter with Human Design in 2012 and his subsequent certification as a teacher of Transcendental Meditation from 2014 onwards. His participation in advanced meditation programs and retreats has enriched his understanding of consciousness, complementing his extensive academic achievements, including a Master's Degree in Information Technology and two Bachelor's Degrees in Consciousness and Human Potential & Atmospheric Physics and Meteorology.Before his immersion in the Human Design community, James served with distinction as a Staff Sergeant in the United States Air Force. His service, marked by the Air Force Commendation Medal and the Army Commendation Medal, includes notable contributions to weather forecasting and operational support for critical missions, such as NASA’s space shuttle launches and oversight of combat operations in Iraq during the country's first democratic elections. His military accolades also include being named the Air Force Non-Commissioned Officer of the Year, a testament to his exemplary service and leadership. His experiences have taken him to 42 states and 19 different countries, offering him a broad perspective on global and cultural dynamics.With a diverse background spanning military intelligence, leadership studies, non-profit fundraising, and Silicon Valley tech startups, James exhibits a remarkable ability to adapt and contribute meaningfully across different sectors. Motivated by a vision of a world founded on love, honesty, integrity, individual freedom, and community support, James aims to inspire others to lead lives of authenticity and purpose.Currently residing in SE  One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark. fumbling, furious through ruins

maze, lights my war cry born from the blaze. The poem is Angels with Rifles. The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Kodak Serafini. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. I hope your day is going beautiful. I hope that a miracle happens to you today.

I hope that thing you're wishing for, boom, just happens right in your life. I hope you got to wake up in the arms of the person you love. I hope the sun is shine. I hope the birds are singing. Hope the wind is at your back. I got an incredible guest, an incredible show for you today. James Wilson. He's a pioneering guide for entrepreneurs, which is great for this audience,

integrating life and sole purpose into successful business through a life of lived experience and human design insights. He empowers individuals to chart their own course offering. He actually has a human design course where he's offering a 90-day self-exploitation roadmap for personal and professional development. With a focus on conscious embodying awakening, James Foster's mutuality and trust in one's internal wisdom. His diverse background includes military service, certification and transcendental meditation, and academic achievements in information technology, consciousness, and human potential. James is dedicated to inspiring,

authenticity and purpose in others envisioning a world grounded in love, honesty, and community support. Man, that sounds so amazing. James, thanks for being here today, my friend. How are you? I'm doing fantastic. It's a real, you know, it's a real pleasure to be here with you. And that's a great introduction.

Yeah, well, you've done, there's so much out of that introduction. You have a really illustrious background and you've done some really cool things before you got to this table. when we're talking to me today. And I kind of wanted to throw it back to you a little, but I know that you've done some work over at NASA and you've had a very interesting military service career, but maybe you could kind of fill in some gaps

about who you were before you became who you are today. A great way to phrase it in terms of who I was, because there seemed to be like a clear demarcation point as far as a previous version of myself and then a profound, yet very difficult, uncomfortable, tragic breakdown. I refer to it as a dark night of the whole being, as opposed to a dark night of the soul,

because it was more than that. It was more than just my soul. It's like my whole life, everything just kind of seemed to fall apart, but it seemed necessary to be the awakening into the awakened path that I'm on now. So in some ways, I lose track of what. I did previously. So when I hear some of my track record of things I did, it's like almost hearing somebody else's life story.

Like who did that? The best way I can put that into context is like that particular path that I was on, say the first, I'd say the first 30 years of life for topical purposes. Maybe if we lead into human design, there's astrological component to it. there seemed to be some factor of a of a Saturn return or some initiatic experience of turning 30. It doesn't seem like that big a deal now, but it was like, oh my God, my life is changing dramatically. Up until that point, to around 30, I was on the trajectory of like the everything looked good on the outside as far as achievement and success. It was a very linear path of like, okay, I graduate high school.

what am I supposed to do now? At that time, the only options available were really go to college, get a job, or join the military? And so I joined the military. I joined the Air Force. I was a weather forecaster. I've always had a fascination for patterns, being able to see patterns within something, predicting the future. and I found a love for that in weather forecasting. That brought me to working with NASA, getting to experience that.

So, I mean, I really was like this crescendo of reaching the pinnacles of success for where my thought was possible in my life. And I guess it's kind of cliche to say, but it's like getting a glimpse into celebrity or fame a real success in getting there at this like supposed arrival point. And then internally it was kind of the, there was a real dichotomy. Like I wasn't happy, you know. So I got out of the military and that's a complete paradigm shift of its own world. Then getting out into the civilian world, it's just uncharted territory.

It's like, I'm a civilian now. I'm trying to understand how to navigate this life. And so I still found my, I guess that about 10 years ago is when I got set on a course of the traditional spiritual seeker, searching for truth, you know? Yeah. Spiritual seeking. Currently that also seems very old paradigm to me as far as how that started out versus how it is now. Started out with looking to outer. authority figures, specifically gurus, teachers, someone that could tell me what that meant.

Like what did everything, all these seemingly endless questions, which I look back on retrospectively as deep spiritual insecurity. And whether it was an ashram or in groups of people who had insatiable questions for the teacher or the guru, You know, like just lining up at the microphone, like an insert question about existence and spirituality. And so the spiritual insecurity of endless questions and needing someone to, it's always seen through an illusion, even in the moment as I'm speaking. But it was a deep need for being saved. I need something or someone to save me. And so I realized, I guess in more recent years, like there's nothing, there's nothing or no one that can save me because that's even kind of illusion itself.

Like, because it's just deeper and deeper layers of questioning like, well, what do I need to be saved from? And then I, you know, save from what? Like, death, dying? Like, that's inevitable. And that led me on to another more recent, like, seeking, you know, but more around grief, grief, death and dying type of work of like the curiosity seemed to extend past this lifetime of like, well, what happens when you die? You know, is there life after life? So before we were kind of chatting about what's a, where's a good starting place or what's the beginning? I never really know, like, life doesn't seem to have a beginning or an end.

I can't tell. So it brought me to human design. That's the only real, I call it like a sticky. It's a paradigm that's sticky. Like it's hard to cast off. All the other ones just seem to not hold a lot of truth to them. Why do you think that is? I've talked to some people about human design, and I've looked at my chart, and I've found some really interesting areas for exploration that are unlike other forms of learning.

But what do you think it is about human design for you that makes it so sticky? Like, is it the intricacies? Is it the way in which it seems to have a pattern of patterns in it? you know like what is it for you that like really when you were studying it looking at it that not only attracted you to it but made it stick for you okay i'm going to answer the first question first because it didn't stick to me initially i actually actually hated it at first let's hear about why oh but but what why do i gravitated towards it now because um it's uh I don't see how do I say this.

It seems to be a continual reference point back to yourself. Other teachings seem to lead people towards an agenda or following someone else. And it's the only thing I've really found that's a system that continually reminds you to follow your own inner authority, your own truth. And without that, it's so easy to get lost in something. And so it's almost like the same kind of existential question of like so sticky in terms of like you can't escape as far as I can tell like the confines of your body. And if you can through some sort of out of body experience, it's very temporary. And then you always come back in your physical form, you know.

Yeah. So that was a letdown of spiritual seeking. I thought I was always trying to get out of here. Right. Trying to merge with consciousness to have some. some out-of-body experience, you know, and I was continually defeated. I kept coming back here. So that is the same thing, like coming back into the body of like, oh, maybe I'm supposed

to be here. There's more to do here. And so the actionable practicality I find in the chart is like it brings an answer in the moment of not so much like, who am I? And self-knowledge, that's kind of ongoing. going, but more of like, what am I here to do? Yeah. I hear this echo of external validation.

You know, and it does seem to me that a lot of the Western, it seems to me that a lot of Western religions are based on, you know, like the ceramic model of the universe where, you know, Jesus was the son of a carpenter and you as an individual follow the teachings and you. You know, you make something out of nothing, the same way a carpenter makes things. So too do you go in the world and make your way? You know, and it seems like the ceramic version of the universe where you as an individual, you go out there and you make this thing kind of happen. And it just seems like you're always, for me, and a lot of these religious, it seems like people are seeking external validation to understand who they are. And I can see that on some level.

But it seems to me that when you look at human design, it is reflecting you. back to yourself. And it's a way of getting to see yourself in other things on some level. What do you, is there, and is there an echo there? What do you think? Yeah, yeah, exactly. So external validation seemed to be at every corner in spiritual thinking, needing approval.

Yeah, yep. Approval from a teacher to validate your level of consciousness. Yep. And there was a set linear predetermined path. Like you reached this level of consciousness and it's kind of linear. and there it didn't yeah it just it seemed to give power away giving power away to the teacher and devotional so I don't know um this is a good point that internal internal validation seems to be what's possible that made I think the confusing part is that as far as collective consciousness

goes in previous years even like 10 15 years ago ago. I don't know if it was even possible for individual people to be able to, this is my current level of the consciousness, but that there was a need for external validation in a way that may not be as present that it is now. I don't know how I was saying that, but what do you think? Yeah, I think it's a great point. I think that there's that old saying that says when the student is ready, the teacher will show up. And even though that sort of explains external validation, maybe human design on some level is the new teacher. And it's teaching us, it's like, okay, we're going to take off the training wheels now.

You no longer need these external validations. And isn't it interesting that, you know, on some level, spiritual teachings seem to come at pivotal times in societies. need for it. You know, when you look at maybe the Roman times, you see Christianity beginning to bubble to the surface. And, you know, throughout, you can look back at the Elusinian mysteries or, you know, pick your time and you can see these sort of spiritual movements

beginning to take root and begin to unveil a new sort of path forward. And I kind of see that and get that vibe from human design. Like, it's interesting to see it emerge in a time. when boundaries are breaking down, borders are breaking down, governments are breaking down, and synonymously, individuals are being empowered, and what better change can come from the ground up? That's how real movements are started. That's how real change happens. And it seems that it's beginning with the individual. So I would agree with that. What's your take? What do you think? Yeah, great way to phrase it as far as things bubble up in evolution as they're needed.

Yeah. And there were specific teachings or paradigms or individuals, whether it's a Christ-like figure or some savior that came about. Right. And when it's structure, you know, there's a massive shift structure. I think it's pretty evident to us now that the structures and systems that were even a few years ago were working for us are quickly crumbling. And then everyone's looking to the future of like what can save us or clinging to something.

I don't mean this to sound alarmist, but I don't think there's anyone coming per se to save us anymore. And that's, I don't want to say human design. The reason that I am continually skeptical of it and don't really say it's something that's going to save people is that it's all so meant to all the teachings from the past kind of said the same thing. Like you're your own teacher. You're your own guide. You've got to live your own life. Right. and so it's just the

I call human design like the last paradigm that you can cling to which is yourself like your left all you have is yourself and it's all you really need because all of that all of the truth and all of the wisdom

and everything that's meant for you kind of it seems to come through you in the moment as you need it and I think that that's what people are waking up to is they don't need to follow external agendas and being told what to do per se, where in previous years they may have needed to to kind of get people to where we are now. But yeah, I see this real shift to individuality, just as you were saying.

So as far as what's bubbling up for us now, kind of, I don't know. I think the scary part could be nothing. And that's one of the problems is that it's waking up to the fact that there's nothing. There's nothingness. I guess when you get to the real depths of truth, that you get to some void or, like, there's nothing. I don't think I'll lose words. Like, well, nothing.

Nothing's coming. It's just life as it is without, so living without the need for a paradigm, I suppose. Yeah, I like that. It's, it seems true enough that when you begin investigating any sort of subject, you learn that what you're learning is other people's opinion. And that could be a letdown, especially if you're, the more you believe in something, you start researching it and you're like, this thing doesn't really make that much sense to me.

Maybe it's me. But then you just dig down deeper and deeper. And then you realize, and I think it's both magic and tragic, like the deeper you dig into something, the more you realize that the lessons you're learning from them are the lesson, the meaning you give to them. You know, that's different than somebody else's ideas. It's different than reading a book about, I don't know, you know, pick your subject. Like if it's English or, you know, archaeology or any of these subjects, they're really just other people's opinions of what happened.

And the real discoveries happen when you as an individual decide to walk down that path and start looking for things. And I think human design definitely reflects that back to you when you start going in and looking at, oh, what does this gate and this relationship mean? And that's another point, too, is it's really heavy on relationships. Like, what does this gate mean to this thing? You really, regardless of which one you're investigating, you're definitely investigating relationships, right? Yeah. Yeah. I'm wondering when you first learned about human design and what's your relationship to that?

So my introduction to human design was this year, like a few months ago, I had a friend of mine reach out to me and he just went briefly over a chart. and then I had another friend of mine do something similar. So maybe I have an hour, two hours, top. So I'm just talking to people about it. So I don't really know that much. You know, I don't, I know that it, I forgot the gentleman's name that kind of started it back in the 90s or the 80s or something like that. Maybe give us a background on it.

What do you know? Okay. It's, it's highly debated as far as historical context, but I'd be happy to. Please. So it started and, 1987. All right. It's pretty recent.

The, I guess, the metaphysical side of it is that, as the story goes, in 1987, there was a supernova explosion of like a giant star in the universe that exploded. And apparently when that happens, there's a massive neutrino storm. It's like these quantum particles of neutrinos, which are like the, they bombard the planet with intelligence. And it's a time of a massive awakening for individual people who are open to receive intelligence from the universe that come from massive star explosions. It's weird to me to even say that, but that's the story. Okay. And so the gentleman that you mentioned, his name's Ra Uruhu.

That's his pseudonym. His given name was Alan Crackow. It's a really fascinating story because he claims to, you know, he claims to be the custodian or the facilitator of the human design system. But he admittedly says he was in like a complete psychological breakdown kind of going through a period of madness. He just locked himself away in a hut in Ibiza, Spain. And it was around this time in 1987, and he was just like kind of done with society and everything. And then he refers to it as the voice that came to him. And over a couple of days, he was kind of in this feverish haze of

illusions and seen things. People say LSD might have been involved. I wouldn't be surprised. It could have been a combination of LSD or psychological experience or a psychedelic experience in conjunction with perhaps this galactic phenomenon at the time. And it was dictated to him by this voice. People can go on YouTube and it's like type in human design, Ra Uruu, the voice and he'll tell this story of how he, the term I use is cognize. If you go back to the ancient traditions in Vedic, Vedic traditions, the ancient Reishi would use that term cognizing as nature speaking through them. And so that's how I relate to what Ra experienced in the 80s was a cognition from nature. And he was told that he would bring the human design system out to the

world. He wrestled with it for a while. So 1992 seems to be more of the time, when he actually brought it out in a more formal capacity and started doing lectures on it. And I mean, I was born in 1987, so. Perfect. Imagine that. Coincidence, perhaps. That's when I arrived, maybe on that neutrino stream.

But it's interesting because it's not necessarily like human design started in 1987. It's more like that's when it was brought to humanity to learn about. Right. Because it can be traced back even further. I don't get lost in it too much. But so 1776, it seems like a significant milestone in human design history to map to humanity. Because that was the most recent shift that seems relevant to me was modern democracy of a shift away from totalitarian.

into the this is all get esoteric. Yeah, I was doing it. There was a split in the human design chart because it also maps and mirrors evolution. So the human design system evolves as humans evolves. It's not necessarily a static system, but 1770, actually 1771, was a split in the human design chart. And yeah, there's a split supposedly in 2027 coming up pretty soon.

coming up pretty soon. That's why I say that. So there's kind of a prophecy within human design that we're coming to the end of a 400-year illusion, basically, and it's the end of truth. Wow. What does that mean? That just means that

let me say this. There's a great book called The Anti-Hero's Journey by Doc Askins. And in that book, he asks the question, are we outgrowing the hero's journey? And if you look at the hero's journey as sort of a foundational myth on which most people's lives seem to be drawn to. And you look at Star Wars or, you know, pick your hero's journeys, whether it's Odysseus or Star Wars or, you know, the underdog. It all has like this sort of huge, you know, this sort of hero's journey to it.

But maybe that is sort of a predetermined path. Maybe that is naive in some ways. And I think even Doc Askins uses that word like it's naive. Like what is truth? Like my truth is different than your truth. And what happened in World War II? It depends on which person you ask. When we start talking about what truth is, you know, it starts getting really murky, really quick.

And truth seems to be a way in which. I can pull out my biggest bomb and kill you. That seems to be the found. You know whose truth is bigger? The guy with the biggest weapon. That guy has the best truth. Right. I'm not.

And so maybe on some level, we are beginning to have the scales pulled from our eyes because, you know, truth is, man, it's just, it's like a, it's like a weasel word. It's like, we're going to get behind this thing and hide behind. What's your take on? Maybe you can tell me more about the split. Your ideas about truth and like what do you think may happen if there's a split in truth? in 2027. Sure. So, okay, so you used the term train wheels before.

Yeah. And the train wheels were to give us some hope, perhaps, that there was an objective truth out there for us. And upon investigation, it's like, there doesn't seem to be an objective truth because, like you said, it's always going to be in debate as far as whose truth is more truthful. That should be a bumper sticker. It's actually borrowed from Ken Wilbur, if you're familiar with him. So integral theory from Ken Wilbur and human design are kind of the two things that I personally cling to as far as truth.

Like, okay, it's going to be so he basically devoted, it sounds like you're familiar with Ken Wilbur. A little bit. He devoted his whole life to truth seeking in the most profound sense where it's just every religion, every teaching, everything, every concept he'd come up with. He was trying to find like, what's the through thread for this? And his conclusion from that was, it's all truth in some capacity, but some truths are more truthful than other truths. And I was like, oh, man, I'm going to have to think about that for like. Yeah. Yeah.

But so the train wheels were like to give us collective hope to keep driving the species forward because we're just truth seekers in the sense that are like, it's like our. our minds want to know what truth is. So there was always kind of this internal bifurcation in the human experience, it seems like, of your mind wanting to know truth in some way. And it can't. It can't. It's like an unanswerable question. I don't think that your mind is really built or we haven't evolved to the point

where our minds can grasp what truth is. So it's taking off those training wheels to seduce us to stop looking for truth from our minds, per se, because it only ends in whose truth is better. It's always some. So that's why I encourage people to enter into a new field of, awakening, which I call the field of mutuality, which is moving away from or outgrowing the polarity of needing to be superior or inferior or for your truth to be better than someone else's,

because that doesn't matter. It just ends in the same old problems. I don't know. I'll ask to answer that, but maybe knowingness, inner knowingness, is the replacement for the addiction to seeking truth from the mind. Wow, the addiction to seeking truth. Like that is, and for me, when I hear that, gosh, I've never heard that. First off, thanks.

I never heard that. The addiction to seeking truth. It seems like such a small-mindedness and rat race. But then again, I think of the infinity sign, not that it's infinite, but that it's infinite, but that it's an infinite loop. Like you just, you know, you're seeking truth and then it comes down here. And then you're seeking truth. And, you know, it's like the truth leads to curiosity, leads to truth, leads to curiosity.

You know, and it's just like this wave going back and forth. It's like, hey, enough, enough of the addiction to seeking truth. Okay, let me just stop. Maybe that's what it is, you know? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So the infinity symbol and realizing that it's always just going to lead you perpetually back to the same place. That's so crazy.

And so maybe to use the affinity symbol as an example, perhaps that is the train wheels that we've already had of there's a fear to let go of what we knew from the past. And that was to stay on the hamster wheel. And what does it look like if you're off the hamster wheel? And is that even possible? Probably not, but. It sounds like maybe your dark night of being is the first step off the hamster wheel.

I myself have had, like, I know so many people in this conversation that have made some really big changes in their life. Some of those changes are made for them. You know, maybe instead of quitting a job, you're escorted off the property, you know? And like, but I think that these changes provide these profound changes that are happening to people and probably have for quite some time are sort of an invitation to come. off of the hamster wheel. What do you think? Yeah, invitation would be a nice, gentle way to put it. Right, right.

It's not a... Where when I let go, in those awakened experiences or some deep shift, you know, being invited to go off the hamster wheel, I wanted to stay on it. I wanted to continue to be on the traditional paths of seeking. And so I have adopted more of the phrase of cooperating, with life and what life wants for me.

Otherwise, I would get prodded off of the hamster wheel. So it wasn't, it was involuntary. You know, you've heard of the term of the choiceless choice. I was going, when I was in pure traditional seeker mode of like, I'm going to go to the ashram, I'm going to meditate and I just need to meditate more. And I was going for flashy, flashy enlightenment. Nice. I very much wanted that.

but life, I cooperated with what life wanted for me. And it led me to complete unknowingness. You know? And it's terrifying most of the time of like, oh God, I want to know. I want to cling to knowing. But I actually, I find it the most liberating on a day-to-day basis to generally go. I have no idea about anything. I don't know what's going to happen tomorrow.

Yep. And I don't really care. I mean, I do. There's always that side of it where it's like, I plan. I guess that's where I still cling to human design, honestly, for some internal truth is like these reminders of my particular life path, which that's what's cool, but everyone's chart. You cannot have a chart that's the same as anybody else's.

So if anything, it's all you have as a navigation tool. My particular life path, which is if people are listening and referencing their chart, it comes through in your incarnation cross, which is the plot line of your life story. That's the stickiest one because it's like it's going to happen whether you want it to or not seemingly. Anyways, mine happens to be the cross of the unexpected. It's like something, it was just imprinted. in my DNA that my life is going to be inherently unpredictable, unexpected, not to know what the hell is going to happen, which may not be true for you, may not be true for somebody else.

Their life could be a little bit more predetermined. Their life is like they know what's going to happen. Mine doesn't seem to be. No idea. I just go with it. Do you happen to remember any of those specifics of your chart, like incarnation cross or anything? I know that like I'm a five one and I don't I don't remember the the specifics of it they

it's so in depth and the more that I listened to what they were saying about the relationship between this and that then I forgot like the other parts you know what I mean I was like oh yeah that's totally true but I do remember really resonating with the way in which it was described to me and they were saying things that that were really they hit home to me like I almost cried a few times. I was like, dude, that is so mean. Like that, you know, really resonated with me. And I was, I was blown away by by the ability of a total stranger to look at this sheet of paper and say things to me. That's why it was, it was weird to me at first when it's like a stranger who was reading my chart, who I'd never met before, seemed to know me better than I knew myself. I was like, how do you know that?

Yeah. It was, it was weird. And so it took me a while. But, but, sure, even that alone, 5-1. That's the profile. So, like, your 5-1, do you remember your authority? It's your decision-making process. So you're 5-1. Splenic authority, sacral, or generator. I think it's a, it's sacral, and I think it's a, I think, what's the most common one? A generator?

Yeah, technically, generating generator, perhaps. Yeah. I think, yeah, it's, in the way it was read to me, like, they were just saying things about the way I perceive people and, like, my ability to, one of the things in there that really hit home was, and this probably is true for other people too, but like you do so much more for other people than you would ever do for yourself. And on top of that, you have, I have like a really, I really want to know what other people are thinking. And so I spend a lot of time doing like, like I do a podcast where I'm constantly interviewing. people and trying to figure out like why they're saying the things they're saying. I listen to like the metaphors they use. And that was part of the last reading that I got was I have a really unique way of helping people with a message that they want to get out and then reflecting it back to them. And I've had so many people tell me that at the podcast.

Like you know what? You've never thought about it like that. And so after I, after they had read that to me, I was like, it just hit home. It made sense. I was like, that's exactly how I think. Like, how do you know that? Like, it's mind-blowing. Yeah, okay.

And so what's your relationship to this concept of a projection field? If you know what I mean? I had a problem with projection. Like, I would project all my fears and all my things on other people. You know, I didn't really realize that until a few years ago. Like in much like you, I was just prodded off the hamster wheel. Like, I was a UPS driver for 26 years. And I just got to a point where I couldn't do it anymore.

I started speaking out. And I just, I took like this really hard line. And it was like I, I couldn't do it. Like, I physically couldn't do it. And the more that I went to work,

like I would almost get sick being there. You know, and I was like, my whole life was just dying. And I was making tons of money. We were doing really well. And I was like, I just can't do it.

And I'm talking about you can't do. Like, I just, there's something bigger than me telling me to leave. Like, I have to leave here. People are out of your, you're out of your, you're out of your,

mind George you know and I'm like what do you do with your family what you're doing to do your house like you're just going to get a second on your house and do you're fucking out of your mind and what are you going to do like that's what I'm going to do like that's not going to work and I'm like why wouldn't it work and they're like what do you mean why wouldn't it work and I'm like that that's the question like why wouldn't it work I don't I don't understand what you guys are saying and so like it was it was my prod it was like and I can hear it you know I I I just I hear it in the environment around me through the plants through nature through my environment through my relationships like

i can't do anything else almost like an obsession you know what i mean like i'm just being guided this way and it is scary because you don't know what's going to happen like i have no idea how how on some level i'm going to make it you know financially creatively relationship wise but i know that if i don't follow this path then i'm not doing what i'm supposed to. And that's, there's too much pain there. Like, there's a force bigger than me guiding me. And that gives me, that's both scary, but it also gives me faith. Like, look, I'm taking, I'm following the path I'm supposed to be on. When people are like, how do you know? I'm like, I just do. I just do. It's crazy, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Great example of, um, I would say,

mutual um mutual um mutual um validation in terms of it's obviously a different path but um like that seems to be how the hero's journey plays played through for me as well it's like there was it's a choice of um a lesser pain like do i follow this call of what i'm supposed to do it sounds like you did that as well like there's just

departure from conventional life that was was prodding you and you just go with it. And it's completely unknown. But it's, it's way more, I don't know, how's it working out for you? It's like a tale of two cities. It's the best of times. It's the worst of times, you know? And I wouldn't have it any other way, though.

Like when I look back, and similar to you, when I look back at what I used to do, I'm so thankful I don't do it anymore. Like I'm so thankful, even though I have no idea of what tomorrow, brings. I know that I was dying doing what I was doing. I know that my relationships, like you would think on some level, maybe your relationships with fault. It might have gotten incredibly more clear, incredibly more wonderful, incredibly more close. You learn so much more about myself. I think on some level when you're pretending, when you're going out and doing these things, you're allowed to lie to yourself. But when you remove the safety net, you have to get real

clear on who you are. You have to get real clear on what your problems are. You have to get real clear on being honest with yourself. I think that that's something that can really only come from uncertainty. And like that's, while uncertainty can be frightening, it's also a very good gift because you have to have faith in yourself, which kind of takes us back to human design. There's no external validation. If you're looking for it in this position, you're not going to find it because everyone's going to tell you you're crazy. Everybody's going to tell you you can't do it. The validation comes from in here. It's that, it's that, it's that, it's the silence in between your heartbeats that gives you the courage to take the next step

forward. It's the, you know, it's there. It's the knowing, man. It's there. Yeah. Beautifully said. And that certainly comes through in your message. Like just when I, I first learned about what you're doing in your podcast and I was, I jumped in the car and you have like a quick kind of intro. Yeah. And it was like, you know, it was like the most inspiring thing. It was like your life matters. You're amazing. You can. can do it. And I hear that stuff, you know, all the time. But this is just so truthful coming from your heart. And I was like, this guy is not bullshitting people. As you can tell the difference. Nowadays, it's like, you know, be your true authentic self and be genuine and reach your full

potential. It's like blah, blah, blah, blah. I've heard that a million times. But when it's really coming from somebody's heart, it's like it's infectious, you know. And so, yeah, hats off to you for following that. I know it's not easy. Well, maybe the word mutuality. Like, I've never really heard that before. And as I was reading through your bio a little bit, and you brought it up real briefly, man, I would love to dig into that. Can you tell me what it is, how you came up with it,

and just maybe we can dig into that a little bit? I wish I could claim the concept for my own. So I don't really, I don't really, nowadays don't refer to having a teacher per se because I, like, I teach myself things, but I can't take credit for it. Because then that's like, I get into hubris and, like, these are my concepts or my teaching or whatever. So I guess the closest thing I have is like osmosis. like people that I trust, especially if they're wise,

I trust life experience. Yes. People who are old, wise elders and they've been through it. They're not trying to bullshit people anymore, you know? So it's not, mutuality is something that I learned. How did I learn it?

How did I say this? Okay, so the traditional path that I started on was becoming a teacher of transcendental meditation. Are you a little familiar with that as far as how that came, like to the west through Marishi Mahesh Yogi from Rishi-Mesh-India in the 60s? Only briefly. Maybe you can help me in the audience know a little bit more about it.

Well, it gets really far away from mutuality. Now, let's just hold that as far as this is eventually supposed to get us to the new awakening field of mutuality. But it's how that collapsed for me. that brought me involuntarily and gladly so to the concept of mutuality out of the paradigm of seeking a guru. I wasn't really seeking a guru. I wanted to be a TM teacher.

I wanted to teach meditation. I wanted to learn about it. The history, I don't know. I wasn't around at the time, but it seemed like there was this big explosion through the 50s and the 60s of, I don't know, real. It's like this inception point of hippies and spiritual speaking, and it came to the West from a lot of Eastern traditions, a lot of it from India. So there was a teacher or a guru. His name was Marishi Mahesh Yogi. He's most commonly known for being the spiritual guide for the Beatles.

I think that's when most of mainstream Westerners learned about Marishi, Transcendal Meditation. and things coming out of India at that time was when the Beatles made this weird shift from like the clean cut good old boys to Sergeant Pepper's. Yeah. Sergeant Pepper is doing LSD and just doing like really radical stuff.

And they had, you know, it was like they did some spiritual meditation retreats with Marishi at ashrams in India and they would come back and just kind of bring this culture to the West and people were blown away by it. And I think it started a lot of movement, spiritual movements in the 60s. So the Transcendental Meditation one is, how do I concisely say the history of it? It's just Marishi was really adamant about bringing the specific technique of Transcendental Meditation to the West.

And I think it started a really good purpose. as far as people needed to learn how to quiet their mind to actually go within to be more self-referral. So it served a really good purpose at that time to teach a standardized type of meditation to a large amount of people globally. And he dedicated his whole life to doing that. I kind of innocently came into the middle of that in 2012. I had no reference for really meditation or anything spiritual whatsoever. I was very worldly. That's the time when I was working for NASA.

I was a meteorologist. It was very kind of scientifically minded. But kind of like you were saying, I had this deep, painful inner calling to go find myself. Like, oh God, I got to go find myself. What does that mean? Like, I'm right here. It's stupid to think about it now. I was like trying to find myself or find my soul especially.

soul-seeking it's like it's all within me it took me a while to figure that out but at the time I was lost so I was looking for an external validation guru seemed to be what was hip at the time even 10 years ago I had somehow I had one of his books that Marishi wrote it was called the science and art of being at a vague concept of being being like what that I was like I just want to be I was seemed like life just was full of problems and conflicts that were bringing me out of a state of simply being. So I learned Transcendental Meditation, and then there's a whole kind of cliche story as far as

it can get very exploited. I was honestly exploited, to be honest with you, as far as using my story to fit the narrative of promoting Transcendental Meditation in the mainstream. And it's basically like looking for veterans. Like tell us your story about how going to war completely broke you and gave you post-traumatic stress. And then how we came in and taught you Transcendental Meditation and saved your life.

And now you're a poster child. And that was great because I was still very much on the trajectory of like, I wanted to be a poster child. child. I wanted to be, and those days, even 10 years ago, those days, mainstream media was like the pinnacle of you wanted to get on news, the news channel. That's where people knew. Nowadays is podcast and so I completely open that up. But it was enticing. There were celebrities involved. Any weird spiritual movement has celebrities involved and there's Katie Perry and, you know, Russell Brand and Jim Carrey. There's a lot of celebrities that I respected and looked up,

to that were involved in this meditation movement. But I don't think this meditation movement was prepared for the massive awakening shifts and especially social media, which kind of calls big movements out on their bullshit. Because anytime something gets too big, even if it has the best of intentions, that's where I was very disillusioned because I was like, this movement is completely based in world peace and enlightenment. How could it be corrupt? It's totally corrupt

And so again, I wanted to stay in this particular spiritual movement. I liked meditating. I like kind of the status that I had. But I don't remember. The details are kind of hazy as far as that happened. There's usually some sort of being ostracized or outcasts once you start to speak out against things. That's where it was. That's kind of where human design came in.

And so you're a five line. I'm a three line. There's a lot of common ground there sometimes. So Ra Uruhu, who I mentioned, brought out more of like this, it's usually referred to as like a shocking kind of language to shock people awake. And so five lines are referred to as heretics. People usually like to be called heretics so much. That's totally me.

Yeah. Okay. So it's good if people self-identify with it. But so it's heretic and then I'm a three line. It was a martyr. So I had this deep martyr complex that actually I really kind of lived out. And I started speaking out against a lot of the bullshit that I saw. And so I found myself just kind of ostracized and blacklisted from all of the movements,

whatever they were doing. And anyways, but I still had a deep trust for certain individuals who were, long-term trans and dental meditation teachers who were kind of on the outskirts that's when I started to realize like oh I'm more of an outsider I was always trying to fit in like I want to be like everyone else and do what they're doing but I just kind of got pushed to like I guess I'm more of an outsider and so there is some transcendental meditation teachers who had a similar path where it's like it didn't work for them or they were kicked out or it's just you know their life fell apart and they were disillusioned by everything. And so they kind of formed their own teaching per se.

And I just have to know a couple of them. It's weird because it's not a teaching. It's more of like so it's a threefold path of consciousness. So consciousness is kind of one aspect of say meditation is the field of consciousness and becoming more conscious and transcendent. But that's just one aspect of awakening. That's the problem I had with people who were like devotees to spirituality by itself because you heard the term bypassing. I totally rocked my world when I heard that. I was like, I didn't realize I was spiritually bypassing things.

But now that you mention it, I kind of am. So then embodiment seems to be kind of the next field of awakening of, oh, I need to be more embodied as opposed to someone who's just too spiritual and too transcendent. I just call them space cadets. Like, just so spiritually can't even talk to them. There's no, you know, it's fine. Everyone will teach their own. But if someone's too spiritual, I'm like, I have no reference point because it doesn't seem very embodied. like conversely there's you might find some folks out there who are a little bit too embodied and maybe it's more of the you know just working the nine to five doing the grind um know that that's soul crushing for them so not a whole lot of conscious just embodied you know kind of unconsciously embodied walking around um so the integration of those two is conscious embodied awakened

And then I had this question of like, okay, I feel pretty awake, not in this like self-righteous kind of way. I'm just like, I'm more awake than I'd like to be. I'd like to kind of dumb this down a little bit. I miss the ignorance. It's hard to be awake to whatever is. So mutuality seemed to be the place that caught me in terms of just it's what we're doing right now. We're talking about life, it's discomforts, how it. it's hard, don't really know what's truthful, not trying to be better or worse than anyone else,

just mutual together, like being able to speak through hardships and not sugarcoat it or make it different or pretend or put on a persona. And so all of that, I just put in this category of mutuality, like just speaking through your evolutionary path with another person. How does that translate into your relationships? Like, do you think, is that like the foundation by which you create relationships? Is it like a foundation stone mutuality or a philosophy? Probably. It sounds like it could be just semantics of how to word it,

but relationships certainly because that was always, I guess in some ways what I was seeking was just interrelatedness with other people and how to relate to them, but still be myself and to see them where they really are. That's kind of what I was getting at in terms of, so five lines in human designs are really kind of like the masters at seen through projection fields. Because usually it's like the term is being a comic mirror where a lot of people can project their own unresolved trauma on you. Yeah.

All right. And that can be a very good teaching tool. So people can be like it can be reflected back to them. but they're actually just projecting that on you. And so I always, and I happen to be a projector in human design. And so I just, I always felt like everything was a minutia of a projection field between two people where never actually seeing the other person as they were. So to answer your question, yeah, it's all about relationships,

like being like a bond in a relationship of how you connect with people with seeing them for who they are. And, yeah, relationships. It seems to me that because they're, at least for me, in my experience, with the little I've known about human design, it's such a reflexive tool. Like, it allows me to do some deep thinking about the way I think. Maybe that's metacognition. But I'm curious.

And for me, that has had some positive effects on my reality. relationships. I've often found the work of Carl Young to be attractive in that that everyone you see is a mirror. They're reflecting back to you, your positives, your negatives. And I think that human design kind of amplifies that message for me. It's like, oh yeah, maybe if I can take a deep dive and begin to really know who I am, then I can understand not only the semantics of this conversation, but the meaning behind it. And I'm curious. curious what you think about that. Okay, so you've got a good, what I call a dichotomy of a good balance between introspection.

That's the one line. Your five, one. So one line wants to investigate things. It's very contemplative, introspective. And that's probably the truth-seeking element of human design. Like one-lines just want to get to the bottom of things. like get to the point what what what what what's the point you know and so but but finding that within yourself like what's the truth here very introspective but then always called out to um so four

the four five and six there's six different profiles in human design um the upper trigram is more transpersonal so there's an element to karl yung and transpersonal psychology i think he speaks about yeah So any element of four, five, and six is the dichotomy that wants to pull you out into the relationship realm to more higher extroversion to then integrate that what you've introspected upon through the five-line dynamic of. So visionary leader is the term I like to use more than heretic. Because heretics like the other side of the other side of the coin. But just to be a visionary leader. So as people usually relate to that concept a little bit more of an introspective visionary leader is how I would describe a five one. Does that resonate with you?

Yeah. I mean, I hesitate to be the leader. Like I've never, I agree with the philosophy. Like those people that want to be in charge, be the people. that are never allowed to be in charge. You know, and like I, I find myself reluctant at times, you know, to, no one else will do it, then I'll do it, you know, but I don't, I don't want not like the first in line to be like, let me go do this.

I'm like, that's not for me. Like, you know how to do it? And I'm like, there's way too much there, man. I'm not going to get involved in that. But then if I have to, all right, let's go. I'll show, you know, I'll show you that. So it's interesting. Exactly.

That's why I love seeing human design as like something in real time. Like I don't like to tell people like, oh, you're this or you're that or whatever. I just like to hear what people say and then kind of go, yeah, you know, that's what I hear a lot of five lines saying. I call it the reluctant Messiah complex. There's a book. There's a book called The Reluctant Messiah. And it's like, of course, any good natural leader would intelligently and write so have a complete aversion to wanting to be a leader because any examples of most examples

leaders out there as far as people in positions of leadership are completely incompetent. It's so true. It's so true. You know, elected officials or politicians or whatever. So that's kind of an unfortunate place we're in right now is that all the true leaders don't want to be leaders. But being your own. own leader in your own way, like through your own voice is, is what you're doing. And another part of mutuality, I don't know if it's mutuality, but like that is, that door is opening quickly, like to be able to lead in the way that you want to and not have to fit yourself into a box of whatever traditional leadership is. Yeah, I'm a big fan of. I was talking to some, some

people that I found to be really interesting. And there seems to be this motif going around right now. about building online or building something in front of everyone, showing people where you fail and being honest with your situation. And that to me is a new way of leadership, at least to me I've never known that before. And I've totally embraced that. Like, I'm going to lay out all my card drink here. Like, here's how I'm doing it.

Anybody could do what I'm doing. Here's the exact path. Here's where I'm failing. Here's where I'm pulling my hair out. Like, here's me crying. You know, like, I'm losing it. But like, here I am. And I think this is the best way because I honestly believe the way we move forward

is for each individual to become the best version of themselves. And everybody I talked to on the podcast is doing something cool and new and finding this way. And in doing so, I'm getting to learn. And like, that seems to be the way to be the leader is to lead by example. Whatever you're going to do. You're listening to this. Like, whatever you're doing, just do it wholeheartedly because people are watching. And when they are watching, they're learning.

And when they're learning, you are being. being the leader. You're helping the world get better by being the best version of yourself. So I think it's a new way to lead, right? Like it seems like we're all coming to this idea that no one's coming to save you. You can stick at this place as long as you want to, but ultimately that's your decision. All the decisions you're making and have made, they have led you to where you are, man. Yeah. And I mean, I think you started the podcast in 2019 from what I remember. what's that what's that leading you like what's the what have you found so far on that path of

self leadership and being yourself and what does that look like it's been amazing it's it's been I started off just talking to myself like on a YouTube channel and just like no one's ever going to listen to this everyone laugh at me like do you did a we start a YouTube channel way oh you're going to be this guy you know yeah but I just laughed I'm like yeah why not you know I I like learning helps me learn and I really I think I can do this you know and and it started off just me talking to myself and doing some funny stuff and you know about a year goes by and I did some book reviews like I love books I'm like why not do some cool book reviews you know and do some book reviews and got to teach people and and some of my friends would listen to it and then um about a year and a half in I got

approached by a like a PR firm that was like hey we've noticed that you have this this podcast thing you're doing in this channel. And we were wondering if you want to talk to some of our authors. And I'm like, absolutely. And it turns out some of their authors were, you know, New York Times columnist and Ivy League teachers. And all of a sudden, I went from some guy talking about magnets, you know, whipping around a bunch of magnets on a YouTube video to interviewing some incredible

doctors that were talking about spirit and, you know, the art of communication and all this cool stuff that I was fascinated by. And then all of a sudden It led into me Instead of having to send out 100 invitations to get one gas All of a sudden people were Hey George can I come and talk to you

I was like yeah And all of a sudden people started accepting my stuff And my whole mind shift Everything just shifted like Oh Relationships are the new currency And I would say that that has been the message That this whole thing has taught me so far

Is that I was worried about money I was worried about how I'm going to make a living And now What I'm beginning to understand is that relationships are the real currency, the relationship with yourself, the relationship with other people. The fact that you and I are talking about relationships in the world of human design,

like relationships is what makes you rich in life. And it's not on a monetary sense. It's in a knowing sense, knowing yourself, the way you know other people, and how much better I am at having relationships with my family and figure out what's important so that I can teach the lessons to my daughter. And so it's been this unexpected,

page turner of a book where I can't wait to get to the next page and see what's going to happen. Thanks for letting me share that, man. Oh, of course. It's inspiring to hear because, like, the messages seem to get channeled through each individual person the same way, but there's, like, some through threads where it's like, oh, yeah, I've been hearing a similar thing as far as how to move forward into this new paradigm of life. And relationships is, like, the most common thing that comes through for me where I'm like, Yeah. Oh, man. I've, I was honestly averse to relationships because I had such a limited

understanding of what relationships were. I was just, yeah, because it's just one particular word of a relationship, but it encompasses so many things. But I was just related to like, through the traditional, like intimate relationship or a partnership, wherever, but I thank you so much. It's like your relationship towards yourself, what you're doing. And yeah. it's important what are some so you you have noticed the Ariadne thread of relationship

for running through the tapestry are there some other threads or some other things that you see kind of running through this tapestry? The Trinity Trinity as far as pattern recognition

at the deepest layers so you and I are both one lines in human design that's like analyzing the things that nobody bothers to look at. Totally. It's the investigator, you know, like the researcher.

What's the foundation? It's all foundational. So there's always this repeating pattern of a Trinity. I call it a triadocs. I investigated a paradox because the paradox the concept of a paradox was

driving me crazy for so many years because everything just seemed to lead to an unresolvable paradox of two things, right? Actually, I remember in your LinkedIn bio, there was you and I together. Yeah. And that's where I was like, oh, he'll probably be able to jive on Trinity, Triadox,

the three dynamics between you, me, and the other person. And it's really about the synergies, kind of an overused term, but it's like the interrelatedness or the dynamics between two people. That's this emergent, transcendent third property. I just call it a triaduct, meaning that it's the wrestling between a paradox that's like two things that are seemingly unmergible. I call it two unresolvable truths.

And I guess that's where truth seeking kind of ends in terms of you kind of reach its. it's obvious conclusion is that when you get to a true paradox, you heard that anecdote, like a paradox is the truth standing on its head trying to get attention. You heard that? I have now. Okay. Thank you.

So you get to this paradox and it's really frustrating because you're like, there's these two seemingly unresolvable things. But it's like the bottom drops out and then there's more one-line stuff to investigate. and it's like, oh, this is a triadocs or a Trinity. So there's always some revelation of a third component. You mentioned Jesus and Christ, and I'm not particularly religious, but it's weird how biblical things can get sometimes. My current investigation or what I'm fascinated by is like kind of the, honestly, the paradox of the, a female experience or more of the yin of what i can't comprehend like what i can't conceive of

that i'll probably never know truthfully and so there's like you and i probably know the hero's journey pretty well because it's like right original male archetype is like i've heard that a million times it's every story there's that truth that's kind of boring sure right there's a call to answer and you find guys and there's a threshold and guardians and whatever yeah um but honestly like the biblical so there's the father the son and the holy ghosts the emergent trinity of the biblical stories um in the for more of the yin um archetype of that it's seems to be mary and her child and you go well that's only two aspects of it but it's really about the third element is her relationship with the child.

And I find that really fascinating. Like, what does that mean? Like, your relationship? Like, that's its own entity. Yeah. It makes a lot of sense to me. And I see, now that you bring it up, I see the triodox in a lot of therapy. I talked to a lot of people about psychedelics.

And a lot of the people that have been on the podcast have been people with PTSD or addiction or some sort of truth and the relationship to it. And it's interesting because for me, I've had my own problems with like being abused as a kid and just feeling like I wasn't enough. And when I had my son had passed away in 2011. And so I had these situations I didn't want to face. But through psychedelics, like it's almost as if you're given the triducts

Because you, in the beginning, there's just two points. There's you and this thing. You don't want to face it. But psychedelics on some level has allowed me a third-person perspective, what I would almost call that a trinity. Because you can see it from the pain version, and you can see it from your version. But when you can see it from a different perspective,

that's when you can integrate it. Like there can be no integration without that perspective shift. And that perspective shift is the relationship. It's the relationship between. between Mary and child, understanding the relationship between it. You know, if you don't take time to understand the relationship, there's pain, there's addiction, because addiction is not facing something. Addiction is running away from something and coming back and staring at it.

But the relationship is integration. Like, oh, this wasn't my fault. Oh, I didn't know that happened. Oh, I'm okay with that. That's silly, you know, or like, and there's, something that shifts inside of you. You know, maybe they should call it a relationship. That's a good term.

Mation shift. Yeah, I think there's something there. But as soon as you said triadocs, I was like, yeah, there's a third. It's almost like the concept of the watcher, you know, like you are the person observing that you take it to Schrodinger's cat, right? Like you, it's just you and the cat in the room, but you're observing it. The observation is the relationship maybe, you know? But that triaduct is really starting to get my brain movement on some stuff.

Yeah, it's interesting. And it is weird how you can only conceive of things to a certain degree where it becomes like too much or too painful. Yes. And there's like no seemingly way out of that other than a profound psychedelic experience. It opens doors that weren't possible otherwise. No, no, see me, I've tried. If it was possible, I probably would have made it happen.

But, you know, no amount of meditation, no amount of yoga, no amount of breathwork. I understand there's ways to achieve psychedelic states like endogenously or organically. But, God, I have sure tried. And very brief, very brief as far as anything from, you know, psilocybin or what have you, as far as seeing, like, whatever,

a visual experience or seeing, seen fractals or seeing, yeah, something from outside yourself, you know, whatever. I don't know.

Have you had that experience of outside of, um, a hallucinogen of a psychedelic experience, like just organically? I think like, maybe. Glimpses of it,

perhaps? There's things that get close, watching your child be born. Ooh, being, being in a stadium with 50,000 people when something went what happens, you know, um, deja vu on some sense is a weird little tickle of it, you know, like there's, there's echoes of the psychedelic experience all around us. Yeah. But there's nothing.

And I, I, in my opinion, there's nothing that comes that, that is, is similar to a, you know, a large dose of a psychedelic experience. I mean, it's neuroplastisism. in real time. You know, that's what I think is happening, especially in a difficult situation, is you're acting out because your brain is fundamentally changing neural pathways like that.

It's changing the meaning of events and you are, that's your body freaking out, are you running around naked or something? That's what it looks like when your brain's changing pathways. Yeah. I think. I don't have any evidence to support that,

but yeah, there's something that happens in that experience that can allow you to see the world differently forever. Yeah, same here. There's like a few things. things very far between that are in very brief glimpses of it that you would call like maybe normal waking state consciousness right to get so mundane sometimes like my god it's just some things are so boring but yeah like birth of a child like my son being born and watching that and watching

him take his first breath it's like wow that was but it lasts like a brief second yeah you know but it was so profound but it was kind of like oh well that's over immediately yeah i think about it all the time to this day but it's just like wow i just watched the inception point of creation happened in front of my eyes and watch him take his first breast and I was like, that's amazing. It's a miracle, yeah. Yeah, it's funny. It's almost the same as like a profound psychedelic experience.

It's like it's so intense. And then after you integrate a little bit, you're kind of like, oh, well, whatever. Or you forget it or something. You forget how profound it was, like back to boring life. Or, yeah, in a football stadium or like in a concert, you're just kind of merged. You're merged with thousands and thousands of people. And it's just being like tap into the ocean of consciousness with other people and you're like kind of outside of yourself. And it's incredible.

I can kind of induce it a little bit. Like if I fast for a couple of days and I like do intense wind sprints, like I'll sprint and just kind of get my body like really into a peak physical state. And I'll take like a freezing cold shower and I like close my eyes and breathe really hard. And then when I close my eyes, I just kind of see darkness. But if I like, if I just am really intensely like, I want to see, I know there's more there to see because I've seen it in psychedelic states. It's you. Right. Colors. Fractals seem to be common themes.

And so they're just like very briefly in the darkness where they emerge of like these fractals. And I'm like, oh, how do I do more of that? But then the moment I tried to hold on to it. or make it happen more, it goes away completely. I'm like, shit. And I'm like, that's a waste of time. I got to do something else. And there's this, I forget who said it,

but it was like Rumi or something of the more aesthetic yogis who would try and have the psychedelic experience through yoga. And then Rumi was like, yeah, or you could just pay five cents to take the ferry across the bridge. something I got that I butcher you know what I mean it's like or you could just do mushrooms or something and just have that experience

and it's like I think that was part of humanity for a long time that that was actually a right of passage of these psychedelic experience and to integrate them with shamans and elders and everything and then just like the crackdown in the 60s of criminalizing this and making it seem like something taboo because even to this day it's especially from the military

experience because they really beat it into you. It's like if you do drugs, we're going to piss test you and we're going to kick you out of the military. So even though I've been out for a decade, I'm still like, oh, they're going to kick me out. Yeah. Very stigmatized. I think that was probably a impression left on people as far as being more open to psychedelic experience.

But yeah, to your point, it's like it's quite profound those psychedelic experience where you're able to see things like outside yourself objectively and kind of witness them for what they are. Yeah, I don't think it's a coincidence that you can ingest part of nature and then see its perspective. You know, on some level, I think that's particularly psilocybin, a lot of the plant medicines are like exogenous neurotransmitters because you're communicating with them on some level. Like so many things make more sense. It's almost like you're coming back to yourself by sitting down and ingesting the environment around you. You know, like you have really profound insights.

Like a while back, I was thinking to myself, like, when you think about plant medicine, vegetables or the food that's grown in your community, and I don't have a study for this, but it seems obvious to me that the food that's grown in your community is more suited to you as an individual than food that's brought from a thousand miles away. I'm not saying that you can't get a banana from Costa Rica in Canada in the middle of winter and have it not be healthy. But the food that's particularly grown in your environment is grown in the soil. It's part of the environment the same way you are. So if you're sick, the medicine grown in your garden is going to be more effective than a plant that's brought in from a different place.

Now, if you don't have those resources, of course you want the medicine or whatever, but what does that mean for supply chains? What does that mean for the world around us when we're just in diet in general? Like, no wonder how many people are sick. We have decided that we're going to give up the environment around us for the illusion and prospective health from someone millions of miles away. Like we're so disconnected. And this gets back to your idea of meditating versus taking the ferry. In some ways, that's like science.

Like we have decided like, hey, let's try to have this experience without the planet. medicine. Okay. Isn't isn't that kind of what science is doing? Science is trying to prove the efficacious, the efficacy of medicine and take away all the subjective results. Like, you know, let's try it. I don't know. I'm kind of birdwalking here, but let me just throw this last point at you. Like, doesn't it seem that the only thing technology is doing is proving what we already know? Like, hey, man, look at, look at this chat GPT. Yeah, it's just telling us the collective unconscious. Like, if you just sit back in peace, you can kind of get a vibe of what people they're saying.

Or like, hey, man, in the future, we're going to put brain ships in here and you're going to know what that person feels. I already know what that person feels. Like that girl, my wife finds me attractive. I can see her face get flush when she talks to me. Or this person doesn't like me. I can see his fistball up, you know? Or you get you sit next to someone.

Like there's something weird about this person. I'm going to get the hell out of here. If we already know this, it's just that people are trying to, like, trick you. Like, hey, get this technology and you'll know for sure. I already know, man. Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. I know what you're getting at or finding the words for is like, and I tend to work with people who like have a lot of, you know,

spiritual gifts or natural ability or psychic abilities. Yeah. To be able to like mind read or intuitively sent things on a collective level level or channeling. I find it really fascinating, but it does kind of seem like, no offense to them, it's an amazing gift that's very much needed, but like an old school version of doing it or something that's going to take us a long time to evolve to be able to do probably again. I think there was the capacity to do it in ancient civilization,

and we just lost it or something. But the same thing, whether it's AI or some sort of technology or what's the Elon Musk one, neural link. Right. I think we already have like the primitive kind of ability to mind meld and read other people's minds because nonverbal communications like 90%. That seems true. It's like, you know, kind of pick up vibes on people or whatever.

And so, yeah, the social media, I think, is just kind of bringing it up to the forefront as far as like, I already kind of before social media at all, it's like it was the social contract or whatever. It's like or or intuit trying to intuit the current state or the zeitgeist of the collective unconscious, you know, like the state of the union or how things were where that's more like. traversing into the the public space or I heard this great analogy recently it was like social media itself is the the meditation of the collective unconscious and so when you were speaking by that that's what reminded me of it is like wow you can you don't have to meditate to tap into the collective unconscious it's it's very much you can go on social media and people are spewing relentlessly their thoughts all the time. And it's kind of like,

it's kind of overwhelming. It is. On some level, too, let me, here's this thing that you'll hear too, and it has to do with social media and the collective unconscious and the felt presence of the other. There's some ways,

and I don't know if you have tried this, but there's these isolation tanks. You can go and you can lay in, and it's like salt water and you float. Yeah, pretty interesting. And on some level, You know, it's that it's that alienation that allows you to see the color red more vibrant the next time you see it. To smell the air fresher when you smell it because you're in isolation.

Yeah. In some ways, I think that that's what social media is doing. A lot of people say, oh, you know, it's alleviating people from really reading body link, which is stopping people from really connecting. but on some level, maybe it's creating even a deeper connection because you've been alienated from it. And now when you see it, you really pick up on it. Oh, I saw their eyeball twitch, you know, or I saw their ear move or their nostrils flare. Like, because you haven't seen it, now you're, you're attuned to it on some level, you know, like before you see it so much, it becomes callous. But now that you've been away from it, you know, it just seemed like maybe that could be happening too.

We don't ever talk about that. We always talk about how isolating it is. What effect does isolation have on your senses? It seems that it may allow them to become more sensitized, the same way neurotransmitters upregulate and downregulate. You know, there's probably something there. Yeah, I know what you mean. So it started out that way for me,

and I related to what you were saying as far as when you started out with just kind of speaking to yourself on YouTube. I think in its earliest versions of social media, it was that way. I think it disconnected people from each other. It was isolating. It was confusing because it was so foreign to normal, normal day-to-day interactions, which I don't think are that great.

I actually hate them. I hate small talk. I was a meteorologist when people telling about the weather, I'm like, I don't care. I cannot small-talk the weather at all. Because if I do, I just get into like, you know, thermodynamics and things that they're like, I didn't really care about that in the first place. So it's only been in recent years, I think probably collectively that we're even realizing that that's possible through social media?

Like, I mean, before I was doing podcasting or I was trying to figure out how to do this in the first place, because Zoom is still a fairly new thing, because even when there was Skype, like, who the hell use Skype? It was kind of like before we figured out what social media was, like MySpace or even Facebook in the first 10 years or something, you're like, who cares? Like, I don't want to hear about your day or whatever. So I had like, you know, what's the point of this kind of thing? And it's honestly only been in the last couple years where I realized that you could have relationships and interact with people and learn things.

And there's the geographical boundaries kind of lifted to like it can be able to connect with anybody on the planet was the coolest thing. But it was so weird. Like the first time I did podcasts or I was working with clients just purely over Zoom, you know, it was like a new sense or ability to do that where it took a few years to be like, it's weird to say, but like, oh, I can interact with this person because I was so accustomed to watching the television growing up as a kid,

watching YouTube videos where it's a passive thing. And I'm just like, oh, I'm just watching this. I can't actually interact with it. But when it's on Zoom or a podcast, I'm like, I can interact with it. I can interact with the person. you know and like it's really it's cool it is and if if you look back you can you know you can almost see it in a linear fashion like it used to be that you could hear a voice through a box

and then you could see a picture in a box and now you can hear a voice see a picture and interact with that one on the box like yeah you know it doesn't take a whole lot of imagination to be like oh this is just the progress of it like okay well what's next you know obviously you're going to be able to have real emotions come across through that box instead of just yelling at a when I was little my dad would yell to TV come on get the ball you know like you would yell at it but I don't want ever yell back but now it's interaction so and it's happening faster why wouldn't you be able to get goosebumps talking to someone through the internet like why wouldn't you be able to take it to the next level of whatever communication is and so sometimes it's just the necessary idea to pause and look back and it's sort of like you know talk about getting high what are people when you get high you have a different perspective you know the It's in the language. It's in the nomenclature. It's in the lexicon. I've been to the mountaintop.

It sounds like Martin Luther King was getting high. You know what I mean? Like he's looking down and seeing a vision of what is possible. So it's interesting. Yeah, good point. It's like when video games first started. Yeah. Like you could play Pong on the TV.

You're like, I can play a video game on the TV. I feel like that's the same thing with social media. And I'm like, oh, I can actually interact with this. And it's a good point. The linear. I didn't really think. by the linear progression of it. It's almost like there's a real evolution to it.

Yeah. If you are a creator and you have a thousand followers, that is very similar to an artist playing a gig at a stadium. You know, maybe only those, maybe they don't all tune at the same time. And maybe, but maybe throughout a month, all 1,000 followers come in and they watch your creation.

Like how does, like, think about the way the act of creating is evolving. Like that's, yeah. The very act of creating is evolving in ways that are really fun to imagine. Like as an individual, you become the stone cast into the pond creating ripples downstream that you may never even know. But it's, you know, you're getting closer to seeing the ripples. It's, I don't know. It's fascinating to think about, man.

I think about it every day. That's why I jumped full in. It sounds like you have two to this. pioneering whatever the hell we're doing right now but it's pretty cool it's amazing man

it's it's mind blowing to think that you know you can simultaneously speak to the past while speaking to the future

you know right now I've created something you and I together I've created something for our kids to watch while I was trying to think of the next word that I'm going to say. Like it's everything all at once.

It's the now, man. Maybe it's the flow state or I don't know. It's fascinating. Good point. Way to bring in like three concepts into one. Like there's the one, like there's the presence of us talking. There's kind of the,

this will be in the past once we're done as, okay, that was a podcast that was done. But it's kind of a sense of like immortality to it. Like this will live on for, in the digital space, you know. But then it also a real sense of the future of we don't really know what the future holds. And we'll look back on this and go, remember when we used to just have to talk on Zoom? And then we'll probably be in some like augmented reality thing, like connecting with people

and holograms or something. Like, I don't know about you, but I had like a real aversion to that of, I was like a real Luddite for a long time. There was something about spiritual seeking and wanted to be like off the grid where I was a toll. I didn't want to. I was like, no way. And I, I'm, I'm always surprised at how much I'm like, what's the next thing now? You know?

What's your sense on that as far as where things are headed and creating like as outside of podcasting? Are you doing creative endeavors on social media or entrepreneurally? I've had a few people approach me for some projects like, creating a new type of platform where it's like a network. So everybody would get paid instead of on the last click. Because when you look at affiliate marketing, and for those who don't know,

affiliate marketing is when James comes to me and says, George, why don't you send people to my website? And if they buy something using your coupon code, I'll give you a percentage of the sale. But this new idea is like, everybody in the network gets a portion of the money that would go out to the one person. So like if you talk about it, you know, and you can monitor how someone gets to the site. Like you can say, oh, yeah, go to Georgia's site.

And even if you go, even if someone goes and they don't buy it, I can see that you send them there so you would get a portion of it. So I think that I think that the speed with which technology is moving is going to fundamentally make all of us more valuable. And I think that's sort of what the opposite of what most people are saying. It's like, look, everyone's going to lose jobs and no one's going to do anything. But I really think that technology is a liberating force.

I would put myself in the EAC column. And I don't know if that makes me a bad guy or whatever, but I'm full acceleration. Like, let's just run this thing, man. I think that there will be some pain, but ultimately, I think it's a liberating experience that frees us from the drudgery of living a life not worth living.

I think that the opportunity for people to go out, find courage, take that first step. And I think that that's what's been going on for the last hundred years is like the people that you've admired are the first ones over the wall. Yeah, they might have got hammered. But now more and more people are coming up.

And maybe that's what we spoke about earlier when we said it's getting off the hamster wheel. I think that that's what technology is trying to do. Technology is just us. like, hey, there's a better way, but you're going to have to let go of this thing called certainty. You have to let go of these old ideas about the hero's journey. If you want to live a life that's meaningful, you have to have faith in yourself to do that. Like, you are a meaningful individual.

You are unique. You have a gift to give. And when you start believing in yourself, that gift will begin to bloom like a flower. Like, and it's just, it's getting people to understand that they are unique. They are beautiful. And there's a force bigger than you can possibly imagine waiting to assist you. But it has to find you working. Beautifully said.

I had a really cool vision while you were saying that as far as I always had this desire to get off the hamster wheel. But really it's like, and that's almost like trying to get out of the flow of life. Right. And really it's almost like, I don't have words for it, but the way that you articulated it was like, actually, I like the hamster wheel. You know, it's pretty cool. I just hated the way that it seemed to stop. And humanity got stopped or held back or something was holding us back from kind of moving forward in the way that was most constructive for us.

And now we're finding a way through. So it's almost like getting put back on the, getting put back in the hamish wheel as opposed to getting stuck. You know, like I'd want to go forward. But everyone seemed to be getting stuck. But there's a couple of things that you said that might be good to dig into a little bit. especially with affiliate affiliate marketing if you've got some creative concepts around that I want to hear about that a little bit more and then I've heard this term IAC I don't know

what it is though what is that it's I think it's effective accelerationism and I've can't go too into depth because I've read about it a little bit and it seems like in a nutshell is there a negative connotation to it or something yes some people are really worried about it if you if you think about what recently happened with chat GPT, where the guy that runs it, he that got fired or he got cut and everybody who got rid of, hey, we got to get rid of this guy.

Yeah, I heard that. He, I believe, and I'm sure people in the comments will shoot me straight if I'm wrong, but there's a camp called Accelerationists. And they say, look,

we have artificial intelligence now. Like, we almost have artificial general intelligence. Let's just run it. Like, why are we putting these government? on. And if you use chat GPT, it only accesses information from two years ago, at least the 3.5 model, because the people in positions of authority are like, listen, man, this is way

too dangerous. Like someone could use a biological weapon. But then, you know, it seems to me, and I think that this might be part of the EAC argument, is like, listen, Palantir, like governments, they've had, they've had this for a long time. No doubt. It seems to me that the people that don't, that are against accelerationism are the people that are, holding the power. Like, we can't give this to everybody. Someone might use it for something bad. What about you dummies? You dummies been using it for bad stuff this whole time.

And the more that I think about it, the more I started thinking, like, no wonder these people, like, when I start looking at some of the ideas that have come out about like, you know, or the lack of ideas that have come out about things. Like, it seems to me people in positions of authority have had access to technologies like chat GPT for a long, long time. time. That's why there's been this division for so long. Like people have this information. It's just that people on the bottom never have. And now the people on top are like, hey, wait a minute, you guys aren't supposed to be using this stuff. This is bad. It's going to ruin the economy. No, it's not. It's just going to change the economy. It's leveling the playing field. And I think that's one of the things for EAC is that like, look, let's level the playing field. Let's let the chips fall where they may. Here's people that are really smart that may not have could afford to go to a four year universe.

You're someone that was a truck driver for 30 years. Let's see what this guy can do. But that's a real threat to people who are already in the power zone. And there's probably our real threats. I guess on some level, you have to be honest that someone could make a biological weapon. I would argue that someone already has, you know, but there's lots of things that could be done. But does that mean that they will be done? I don't think so.

I think humanity is primarily good people. And that if we allow them to have access to technology that can change the world, yeah, there might be some things that are dangerous. But how do you move forward without being dangerous? Like you can't. And that's why we're stuck. That's why the hamster wheeled got stuck is because we stop progressing. We stopped pushing the boundaries. Like we should have faith in us and all of us to move the ball forward.

So I'm for accelerationism. I think that we should be allowing everyone to move as fast as technology will allow us to move. And that's how we get to a better world. Like, that's how we get to a better place for everyone is allowing everyone to participate. And that only comes from unleashing the governor on technology. Like, let's see what it can do. So I think that that's, and that's just a very, a very small ball answer of, of IAC. But yeah, I think that that's what camp I want to be in.

I want to be on the forefront. Let's let everybody try. Yeah, that's a good reminder of if we're just getting this technology and A, I, and chat GPD now. The powers that be, who are the governors, whoever they are, the Illuminati or whatever, I investigate that all the time. I was like, who is in control here? I don't know, incompetent people who are willing to take positions of power.

But as far as the governors, which is actually kind of ironic because transcendental meditation teachers are referred to as governors as the age of. like governors of the age of enlightenment and I always hate that term yeah it was so elitist I don't like elitist you know of trying to be better or whatever but yeah power dynamics power control um flattening the well whatever but yeah so for sure like um just so i had secret security clearance in the military for the operations that I was doing which there's all kinds of levels of security clearance. Secret security clearance is kind of like the first echelon. There's secret security clearance. I was actually being,

I was, before I got out, I was being interviewed for a job to work with Barack Obama at the White House to be the meteorologist on Air Force One. That was actually one of the downfalls for me. I was like, wow, how did little old me, you know, be in line for such a prestigious position to go work for the, the president at Camp David and be on the Air Force One crew. And like, this was all kind of set up for me. And I was like, nope, I got to go find myself. Screw that.

But anyway, so I got a very, I got glimpsed into this, the intense screening process to be able to be privy to a lot of that classified information. Yankee White was a term I remember as far as getting screened to have Yankee white clearance was like above top secret security. clearance and is I mean they investigate your whole family all your friends you know and it's intense and that alone I was like I kind of I like my freedom that's why I joined the military in the first place was to have freedom yeah I got out thinking I'd have more freedom but not I don't know freedom's elusive but so yeah even at that level of like secret security clearance and some pretty basic

operations of just there were some certain certain things I had to know as far as the movements of foreign dignitaries and VIPs to be able to just give them to forecast the weather for their routes that they were flying, you know? And I was like, man, if they're telling me this kind of stuff at this level, like, what am I, what do I, what do I not know about? So when I hear these things about like, you know, other, the fact that the government is talking about aliens right now and the type of technology they might have, I'm like, okay, what do we, what do we not know? Or what have they known for a long time that they haven't told us about. So I haven't really heard that term EAC, but if that's the case, I'm probably on board

with that. It's like level the playing field, democratize technology because that's probably where things stagnated and stop the hamster wheel. Yeah. Because it's just there's something about a power and control that stops the flow or the inertia of life from happening the way it's, if there's a supposed to. the way that's best for collective humanity. And so, yeah, I see a lot of promise in AI.

Because it's the same thing about meditating on the collective unconscious. Like when you type something into chat GPT, it's almost just like speaking to collective. Or I'm like, yeah, I have my own individual perspective, but I never really thought about it from like every, possible angle. And you just kind of get like a wholeness to it. I'm like, God damn it.

Like that does seem right. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, you know, I think of a dam. Like the same way we go to a, you know, like Hoover Dam or something. Like the same way we dam up a river to try to get electricity from a dam or we try to get productivity or we try to get productivity or we try to get power from that. You know, the same way we dam up like the stream of progress. You know, a waterway is like progress.

A waterway is like an artery and it flows through the states or it flows through the environment and it brings life to everything else. So too does the progress of technology. Technology is like a stream. When you dam it up and you don't allow it to flow its course, well, it starts to break it off in tributaries. It goes underground. And then it comes back up in certain other areas.

You know, it's the same thing. Like you can't, and you fundamentally change ecosystems when you create a dam. Like you just ruin every animal downstream. You ruin every ecosystem downstream because you want this electricity and you have the hubris that you can do it better. Like that's centralized power. That's government. It's like, look, we're just going to damn up technology because we don't, we're afraid of the progress. Okay.

Well, you could damn it up for a while. But it's going to show up over here. It's going to show up over there. And then now you've created an ecosystem that you didn't even know where a problem. You got a whole other things popping up. And you thought you had it under control. And that's when you get in trouble.

Like, oh, here comes Julian Assange over here. Oh, here comes Tucker Carlson talking to Putin over here. You know, like you just created more problems for yourself. So you're better off letting things flow, whether it's the flow state or whether it's observing the ecosystem and how you can work with it. in a way that is in relationship to yourself and those around you, man. But I don't know.

This is, it's amazing, man. It's like whack them all. There's just another problem pops up when you're trying to keep it like a damn. You know, you're just trying to stop all the problems or control everything. So, yeah, I don't know about you, but I kind of, I always think that there was a purpose or a meaning to why things were done the way they were before. of like it was needed. Yeah, it's necessary.

But I don't think up in that collective consciousness or humanity was ready to take the governor off until now. I do think that time is like, okay, it's overdue. Where before it's like I think that people probably needed to be control, maybe not the best term, but it's like kind of fits into my lens of human design as far as human evolution. evolution. It's like we were just apes and didn't know what we were doing. So we needed cults. I think that humanity was just a big elaborate cult because you kind of needed somebody to be the dictator. Like we needed dictators in the past in a lot of ways to civilize people and get us to where we are now. But it's like people are pretty civilized for the most part.

they're waking up they're ready for um that that level of responsibility i think and so uh i think it's probably going to happen sooner than later in a lot of ways it's probably happening already i the way that um most mainstream things people just um don't give it a lot of attention anymore i don't like just don't listen to it i think it's i think it's fractal in some ways like The same way you and I were speaking earlier about being prodded away from the life you were living. You know, you said, you said, oh, it was just being prodded. When I kept going, like I kept getting pushed back. Like, you know, the same thing happened in my life.

And if it's happening in your life, can you see the pattern that's happening in your community? And if you could see the pattern in your community, can you see it in society at large. Like the same way you were being kicked out of living this certain way. Like, I just want to be on this hamster wheel. It's like, nope, you can't be on it anymore. Same way I was going to this job. I'm like, I can't do it anymore. Like the community is changing

Government's changing Technology's changing Like it's pushing us in this direction where You know And I like what you said It was necessary Like you had to go through Everything that you've been through

To get where you are I had to go through Everything I've been through To get where I am So too has society Had to go through all these things To get where it is So you know

But now we're here Now we're at the crossroads Of changing It is changing And there's nothing You know You can't You don't have enough fingers

To plug the damn. You know, you don't have not even your fingers and your toes. You look like a monkey on there, but you shouldn't be blown away. But like I think if you can, and here's a, here's what I do, and people may be able to apply this to their life. Look at the changes that are happening in your life. And can you see them happening in your community? And can you see them happening on a global scale? I think you can. Or you could do it the other way. Like if you're honest with yourself, take a hard look at what the changes are happening in the world. And then a place. apply that to your life. Are there similarities there? And the chances are there probably are. And like,

what does that mean? Like, that means you are society. That means that you are the world. Like, you're part of nature. And if you want to know what's going to happen in the future, look at what's happening in your life. If you want to know what's happened in the past, look at what's happened in your life. And just to make those, it really helps make changes in your life. And it takes away the blame. It's almost back to the, the triadogs. You know, like you can see what happened in your life. You can see what's happening in society. So now take a, a, a, a, a, a thing. And you third person perspective and be like, okay, if I know these two things, can I tell what may happen in the future or can I tell what may happen in the past or can I tell a remedy? Can I find a solution

by looking at these two particular entities, you know, yourself and the world and be the bridge in between them? Yeah, when I think of fractals, I think of specific people who are meant to travel together throughout time. I like that. Let me elaborate on that a little bit Well okay Like a family or a soul family Of people that are meant to stay together And you got separated

From incarnating And I call it the era of Kind of with mutuality of the family of choice But there's a family that you don't choose That you're born into And for better or worse You know Yeah

But then there also seem to be people that I feel like bonded to carmically in the in the in the in a soul sense and so this term fractal keeps coming up as far as like people saying they're in my fractal as like a cohesive unit that's that travels together a cohort yeah that has gotten broken up so something happened to kind of break up fractals or whatever and so I don't know, it's a deep calling that's always hard for me to articulate. But I've found that in odd ways through connecting with random people on social media and going to like groups and whatever and connecting with people in kind of a spontaneous,

serendipitous kind of way. Or like, I've never met them before, but I'm like, I feel like I know you. Yeah. Like we've met before. Yeah. you just are naturally gravitate towards that person. So I found there's cool ways to quantify that and like connection charts in human design. Because always that sense of like whether I think you said you're married,

you have a wife or somebody that's like a best friend. You're like, I just resonate with that person. I always wanted to quantify like, why is there resonance there? Like why do I feel attracted to this particular person? And so you can kind of quantify that in running two charts together. And you're like, oh, that's where we're like naturally attracted to each other. So there's some sort of emerging kind of science and human design that I'm fascinated by of like being able to reconnect with people in your fractal. But not in the sense of like, I call it old, you know, like old paradigm of spirituality of like spiritual bros or whatever that like they hug you and they're like embrace me, brother, for we're family.

And I'm like, yo, back up. Like you're weird. I was kind of contrived. Like, we're all one big family. It's like, I kind of felt that when I was faking it as far as like trying to be fake spiritual people. Like, I love everyone. And there's Sanskrit term, it's Vasudeva, Khatunbukam.

The world is my family. And that, like, it resonated with me. But after I, like, brought back my, my individuality and my worldliness, I'm like, I actually hate a lot of people. I hate most people, be honest with you. But when I'm honest with that, of like, God damn it, like, I love humanity, but most people I don't care for. But the people that I genuinely have relationships with, like those those ones just deepen. You know?

I do. So I don't know. How do you relate to that in terms of fractals and relationships? And you have some sense of like people that you're, you've already met up with that you were meant to and you're like they're looking for you. It always gets weird for me. Think about that way. but yeah i i think it's undeniable that there is a certain sort of relationship that's looking for you and it may change from time to time you know the the relate the on some ways i think that

you know there's some interesting literature that talks about you getting together with your soul family before coming here and making some deals like look man you know what i got to work on grief I'm going to need you to come in here and do this thing, you know, or people show up at these times. And, you know, I, it's undeniable to meet people and feel a real kinship to them and be like, wow. You know, you want to spend more time with them. And then maybe that relationship ends in someone in an abrupt, in an abrupt leaving or maybe that relationship deepens. But, yeah, on some level, you know, maybe our concept of. relationships and people is lacking.

Maybe we can only, maybe I can only see James in this three-dimensional shape, but really maybe James is more than a person. Maybe he's a concept manifesting as a person and we're melding together because we're part of the same idea and we need each other in order to have a resonating effect as a message on a larger group of people. You know, maybe there's something a lot bigger going on, but we can only see ourselves in these weird three-dimensional space. It's like we have on these glasses

with just little poked holes in them and you can only see a little bit, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's my daughter said something really funny that I don't know where she got it from, but we were looking at the stars and she's like, oh, dad, what if they're not stars? What if they're just little holes

that people poke so we can breathe? You know, like we're in like a cage or something, you know? I don't know, but like. That's how old is that your daughter? She's 10. 10, yeah, that sounds like something a kid would say we're like, how do you, what? I just started laughing.

I'm like, what are we on prison? Because I used to catch lizards as a kid and put them in the jars and you poke those holes so they can breathe, you know. That's a cool concept. Yeah, I know, right? Like, yeah, the idea of the universe being like all there is, that's something that I've recently contemplating. So you can poke holes in it.

It's like there's something outside looking in at us. That's kind of ominous. You know, have you heard of the Saturn theory or Electric Universe theory that talks about, like, this is why I think like we're just beginning to understand stuff. Like there's this thing called Electric Universe Theory or Purple Dawn Theory. You've heard of it? I'm vaguely familiar with Saturn and what that means, but imagine that. It's not in relation to astrological components of Saturn, but no, what is it about? So it basically says that, and there's a great,

Emmanuel Velikovsky wrote a series of books called Worlds in Collision. And in the 50s, there was this idea that maybe, maybe the earth used to rotate around Saturn as a brown dwarf. And we were part of our own solar system. And then we were captured by the sun and another solar system. And so you see all, like there was this world's in collision, was the sun and this solar system pulling in Saturn and its solar system. And then there was a rearrangement of the patterns around the sun.

And so when you start reading the biblical text of like, of, you know, these worldly disasters, it's because our solar system was in flux and we were becoming part of this other solar system. And Velikovsky breaks down these ideas of like, you know, he says that when you read the ideas about like the Iliad and the Odyssey or those texts from those particular errors they talk about Mars being a

some people say Mars is like anger you know it's a what is that word called I'm sorry say it again Maleficent yeah but more like so so each planet is given a Mars is the god of anger the moon was Aphrodite you know and they say that oh Mars came to me but like I'm not explaining it very well but basically people should

check out Velikovsky Manuel Velikovsky and entertain the idea that the earth used to be part of a solar system where Saturn was a brown dwarf where we were captured by the sun now I'm kind of rambling man but it's an interesting thing to think about it when you start looking at all the body of it there, like, why wouldn't it be? Like, it just, it's a really incredible theory. And I would encourage people to look at Purple Dawn theory, Electric Universe theory, and read Emmanuel Velikoski come up with their own decisions about it. Like, but yeah.

I like a good rant about trying to figure out astrology or planets or whatever. It's like, it just gets out there as far as planets being their own life form. or form of intelligence and how you evolve from that and the configuration of the earth. And I mean, I just get, I get lost. So I like a good rant about it. But I think it's silly to, so I always get the disclaimer that I'm not an astrologer. Me neither. I'm not a truck driver by train.

I don't try to pretend to understand it. And that's why I like human design because it always drags me into astrology themes because there's components of astrology to it. but I can always kind of anchor it in the body graph. So I'm like at least it relates to people somehow. But the moment you start talking about, it always gets into like horoscopes and whatever. I'm like, I don't know. Or trying to find your future partner or matchmaking or something.

But the most tangible thing I have as far as like people who discount that the planet's current in their current arrangement, because no doubt they were arranged differently before and who knows. But in their current arrangement to say like Saturn or Mars doesn't have any influence on us at all. Isn't that it's kind of silly because it's like saying the moon, the moon doesn't have any influence on us. Or there's plenty of examples of that, right? Like the tides, I think that's debatable as far as whether it controls the tides. At least personally, like it impacts my sleep.

I know that for sure. Like I sleep differently based on the moon. And so it's like that thing is affecting us in lots of ways. Yeah. So the other planets are much bigger. And so I don't know, they seem to be, they seem to have something going on. How could they not? You know, here's another interesting aspect of human design that I've noticed is that I've spoken to Anya Zybert, who is from Slovenia.

And she's working on a project with human resources and human design and finding ways to create partnerships for businesses, you know. depending on what it is the business is trying to accomplish. She's going and helping people build relationships. And that's what I thought of when you said you're putting up two charts of like, here's me, here's my kid, here's me, here's my wife. Like, you know, why wouldn't that be something that people could look towards today even? If you're going to build a business, you know, we do disc testing. We do the Briggs-Myers.

Why not have human design incorporated in there and to see how that unfold? Is that something that you've worked on or are you thinking about doing it? I've attempted it because, sure, I mean, when I was more in the corporate space or whatever, Myers-Briggs was a big part of it. Sure. Usually to put together sales teams because they were looking for high extroversion people. So they would weed out, weed out the introverted people. Yep.

I think that's a pretty, it always seems pretty limited or they're running to some obstacle of like holding people to that as a particular label. I've never really been. I'm optimistic that it can be, but I don't have a lot of trust currently to be able to adapt these types of advanced systems onto a corporate structure. I really encourage people who are doing it to pioneer that. Personally, I don't trust groups. Because I don't think that, okay, I'll speak delicately here, but I'll always run into group

think. Group think dynamics of, how do I describe that? I don't know. Losing yourself in a group, not thinking for yourself anymore, going along with the culture or what's typically done. I've always found that in a corporate setting. So how human design is integrated into that? I don't know.

That seems like a job for someone else. Because I like the conceptually, I think it's cool because it's like the seed of it seems possible in human design. So the term is called a penta. A penta is usually once you get past two people, the three or more people is that there's an emergent dynamic. that exist within the group and the group almost takes on its own life force. And so that's why at this point, I stick to individual charts, like how to maintain your individuality without losing yourself to a collective group dynamic. That said, groups themselves, when they're really cohesive, emerge together,

can accomplish and create amazing things. But I haven't, I've only, I've really experimented with just like my close friends, and collaboration of people who really understand the human design is kind of an elusive concept because it's like trying to understand life itself, you know? But sure, we grapple with it as far as I have like one particular friend and we talk about, you know, just a relationship dynamic between two charts because trying to understand a connection chart of just two charts together is like it gets very complex. So you've had a third person, a fourth person.

And it's like any, you know, real innovator or entrepreneur, they'll talk about once you get beyond two or three people, it's just, it's like it gets hard to innovate any further. Yeah. So, no, I don't know. What do you think? I don't have a lot of thoughts on that. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I'm a big fan of relationships. And, you know, I, if you can begin to understand yourself, then you can probably.

begin to have better relationships with people. And maybe there's some sort of interpretation that allows you to to synergize or something like that. But I don't know. I mean, it looks interesting. I've seen people, I've seen people hold up different charts and come up with different ideas of why things would work. You know, but I've never used it myself. I don't know.

But I don't know. I'm hopeful that we're moving towards something. And when I look at personality tests, be it the Briggs-Myers or the disc test, you know, I'm hopeful that we are beginning to find ways where we can measure the effectiveness of our relationship. And maybe that means effective. Maybe that means measuring what's meaningful. I'm not sure how to do that. But I see it as a move towards a meaningful life. All of these tests are all of these ways we are trying.

to figure out what our strengths and weaknesses are can be used in a way that's meaningful. And that's what I'm hopeful for. I'm hopeful that this can be something that is a path towards meaningfulness. Because I think that that's ultimately what we should be working towards in groups, settings or in business is the meaningful path forward for all of us. And I think that that's, you know, that that should be more than profit should be. Or maybe we should, maybe we could redefine profit into a meaningful relationship amongst us all instead of it being a more of a capital type of thing. But I don't know, Janice, what do you think?

So a decision making without compromising to the group is what you reminded me of. I think that's where it can come in handy in more of a corporate setting. Yes. to counter or be the antidote to group think dynamics of going along and compromising your own self because the group think is like yeah yeah that sounds great being agreeable to someone because they have some position of authority or whatever and internally in your heart you're just like no that's a stupid idea i don't want to do that so you're having to compromise so i think it has that ability because human design if it's one thing it's how you make your decisions so if you said your sacral

authority, that's people who make gut level decisions in the moment. Like, yes, no, yes, no very quick and decisive, you know. I happen to be emotional authority, which is kind of on the other end of the spectrum, which is like, I like to think that I can make quick decisive decisions in the moment,

but I'm the kind of person who needs to sleep on it. I need to kind of think about it for a while. And I might not ever get back to you. And I'm like, I don't, whatever. But in some sort of fast-paced setting or whatever, it's like if I have to make some quick decision and I compromise my own decision-making process just to be agreeable to someone, that's what I see get lost in group dynamics. So I live in Iowa. I live in a small town in Iowa. And I've really learned from the Quakers.

They seem to have this process. I don't quite understand it, but where they come to a consensus. It's like a quorum and they organize and create committees of coming up with a group consensus that doesn't compromise the individual because they always give it space. They sit around in a circle. They don't talk a lot. They just kind of sit in silence and wait for things to come to them. And they don't reach a conclusion or a decision until everyone basically goes, that is fully in alignment with how I understand that and it's truthful to me.

It takes forever, but I like it. Yeah, and with a fast, fast-paced job workplace setting, it's like you can't It's impossible sit in silence and it's like kind of make decisions. But accelerating people's understanding of how they make decisions and honoring that and not going forward unless it's so everyone's fully on board with it. I could see that being a good tool for, you know, corporate settings and what that particular person is doing. So more power to them. Yeah. Amazing.

James, two hours just like that flew by. And I think we just kind of scratch the surface, man. I think we could probably talk a lot about, I think we could talk for a lot longer about a lot of other subjects. So you should come back on and we should have more conversations and maybe bring some more people in and kind of have a little more, a little more. harmony to our voices. I'd love to. I mean, it's really been enjoyable speaking with you. And before I was like, man, if we're going to talk about the truth of life and get into the depths of it, I kept thinking, like, the deeper I go and the more I try to get into the truth of life, the more it just catapults me and skyrockets me back to the surface again. You know, so it always does just kind of seem like

grazing the surface. I'm like, we probably talk about some deep concepts and I learned a lot. And yeah, I'd love to chat with you again. And, um, and, um, and, um, and, um, um, and, um, um, um, and, um, network and yeah yeah i love what you're doing truly it's very inspiring well thanks man i i appreciate it and i i too enjoyed the conversation and i i do i love i love to try to get down to the nitty gritty and talk about everything on the serpent and they're all connected man it's it's really fun and i i've got to learn a lot and i'm really thankful that you got to spend some time with you but before i let you go where can people find you what do you have coming up and what are you excited about me about anything human design related, especially it has to do with entrepreneurship as

far as integrating your human design and how it relates to creating a business that is resonant to you. I call it the antidote to generic coaching because there's a lot of great coached out there, but it's usually innocently gets you to follow their agenda as opposed to being yourself. So doing things that are designed for you and how you do them, you can go to human design, roadmap.com slash group. To join my Facebook group, that's my main community, where everybody collaborates. It's all people trying to figure out how to use human design to build their business. So I facilitate that when I'm excited about.

I've got a book coming out. It's called The Human Design Entrepreneurs Method. I work with people individually with one-on-one guidance over 90 days to help them grow and scale their business using their human design chart as the primary guide. And then I'm putting together a self-paced course for people as well who like to do things more at their own pace. I have that coming out pretty soon. But yeah, that Facebook group is the best way to get in touch with me. Fantastic.

Well, ladies and gentlemen, if you enjoy the conversation today and you have questions, James is the guy to talk to, go down to the show notes, check out his links down there, reach out to him. And if you're curious about human design, I would encourage you to investigate what he has got going on. looking forward to the book coming out. Hang on briefly afterwards. I'll talk to you shortly, but everybody that hung out with us today, Clint Free Spirit, Human Capital, Clint Kyle's,

everybody else that chimed in here and everybody that's listening on the podcast, thank you so much. I hope you all have a wonderful day, and that's all we got. Aloha.