TrueLife - Jaqueline Oliveira-Cella - Innovating Workplace Wellbeing

Episode Date: September 11, 2024

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/Aloha, and welcome to an extraordinary conversation that will leave you rethinking the very fabric of health and wellness in the workplace. Today, we have the honor of speaking with Jaqueline Oliveira-Cella, a visionary leader whose career is a testament to the power of strategic innovation in healthcare.With over 15 years of experience that spans the globe, Jaqueline has made her mark in some of the world’s most influential companies, including World Bank Consulting, AIG, WTW, Colgate, Aon, and IBM. Her expertise isn’t just about understanding the complexities of health, employee benefits, and insurance—it’s about transforming these intricate systems into actionable, client-centric solutions that bridge the gap between employee wellbeing and corporate growth.Jaqueline’s journey is one of passion and purpose. As the founder of wellBe Consulting, she has been at the forefront of co-creating and advising corporations on cutting-edge health and wellbeing strategies. Her work goes beyond business—it’s a mission to redefine the way we think about health at work, blending financial wellbeing with a deep understanding of population health management.But Jaqueline’s impact doesn’t stop there. She is also the force behind ‘Health at Work,’ a non-profit initiative designed to disseminate actionable knowledge that boosts both employee health and corporate sustainability. From tackling issues like diabetes, menopause, and mental fitness, to addressing the broader challenges of burnout, inclusion, and our evolving relationship with food, Jaqueline is redefining what it means to care for people in the workplace.Today, we’ll dive deep into her innovative approach, explore her vision for the future, and discover how she is leading a revolution in workplace health that is as beautiful as it is necessary. Join us as we explore the mind of a leader who is not just disrupting the old models of healthcare, but elegantly crafting a new paradigm where health and business thrive together.http://linkedin.com/in/jaquelineochttps://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/health-at-work-people-7032062130526777344 One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark, fumbling, fear, Fearist through ruins maze, lights my war cry, born from the blaze.

The poem is Angels with Rifles. The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Serafini. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the True Life podcast. I hope everybody is having a beautiful day. I hope the sun is shining. I hope the birds are singing. And the wind is at your back.

I got a great show for you today. I have with me the incredible Jacqueline Olivera Sela. And I want to just take a moment to welcome this extraordinary conversation that I think will leave every one of you rethinking the very fabric of health and wellness in the workplace. Today we have the honor of speaking with Jacqueline. She's a visionary leader whose career is a testament to the power of strategic innovation in health care. With over 15 years of experience that spans the globe, She has made her mark in some of the world's most influential companies, including World Bank

Consulting, AIG, WTW, Colgate, Aon, and IBM. Her expertise isn't just about understanding the complexities of health employee benefits and insurance. It's about transforming these intricate systems into actionable client-centric solutions that bridge the gap between employee well-being and corporate growth. Her journey is one of passion and purpose. As the founder of well-bee consulting, She has been at the forefront of co-creating and advising corporations on cutting-edge health and well-being strategies. Her work goes beyond business. It's a mission to redefine the way we think about health at work, blending financial well-being with a deep understanding of population health management. But Jacqueline's impact doesn't stop there.

She is also the force behind health at work, a nonprofit initiative designed to disseminate actionable knowledge that boost both employee health and corporate sustainability. from tackling issues like diabetes, menopause, and mental fitness, to addressing the broader challenges of burnout inclusion and our evolving relationship with food. Jacqueline is redefining what it means to care for people in the workplace. Jacqueline, thank you so much for being here today. How are you? How good.

That was a long introduction. Thank you. Thank you for having me here. It's a pleasure to be here and to share whatever knowledge and wisdom I can share and learn as well. I think that's a two-way street. So thank you for the very kind and warm introduction. The pleasure's all mine.

You have an incredible CV, and you've been working a long time, and you've seen the complexity of health care system from a lot of different angles, and that's kind of what I wanted to talk about today a little bit. Maybe we can just start off a little bit. Is there anything you wanted to share in the beginning before we kind of start diving into some issues?

Why don't I start with a recent, experience that I had, like just a few weeks ago, I returned from a volunteering opportunity where I was on site along with other three volunteers with tracking for kids. Maybe I can share a little bit about that. That was a, let's say, a highlight of my summer. And I'm sharing with the intent of helping others to see that there are different ways to volunteer. So I will also touch upon that. And what happens when you do so?

Why it's so relevant on a corporate word that we think about how to promote such practices. So I was, I have a few, now it feels like yesterday, but it was a mid-August. I had the opportunity to go to the continent, like the region, the African region. And specifically, I took a few days for myself in Kenya, just a gorgeous place with, like, or something surreal for whoever has never been on a space where animals that we see on a zoo walk freely and you are the one on a cage. I couldn't. And the people, like, it just shows a different reality. And I'm Brazilian.

So I'm an actuary from Brazil. And like, So poverty, it's not something that I'm unfamiliar with, right? But it's just a different reality than what most of us live, like in the United States, for example, my home now. And the actual mission with this group called Tracking for Kids, and I would recommend others to check them out, was in Mozambique, like in Nampula, right?

And I think it's what marked me, what there are a lot of moments where, so here are my takeaways. There are a lot of moments on a journey where there are hiccups with things that you're, things that we're not working accordingly to what you expect. right so i am not going to bore with all the details but there are so until i got into the mission there are so many moments where i had to pause and really check on what was going on with

my emotions am i getting worked up and if i continue to be i have the right to be upset it's my right it's my emotion but could have been be using something else. What are the other tools? So that moment, in terms of takeaways that we can put on our day-to-day at work and else, those moments where you were able to become aware of the feelings you're having. And then you refrain that into how can I see from the lens of the others, the people that I actually need help with and find a way to be assertive, but at the same time

to bring their attention to act, to help me, right? So that was like over and over throughout the trip I has that's like rethinking. So that's the number one. It's like creating the those volunteering opportunity going on my on and meeting with the group there. There are several times where I had the opportunity to practice. It doesn't come easily to practice being aware of my emotions and reframing it over and over. And that's like how a lot of the meditations, right, so what you think about meditating and et cetera. That's a pathway.

It's hard to be, I'm not. aiming for perfection, but I'm aiming for a state where I can, people can see the best in me, right? It doesn't mean, doesn't need to be nice or polite. It's just whoever I am, right, at that particular moment. But it's also that I have the intention of uplifting the person across from me, figuring out what can we together gain on this situation. So that's one, the pause, the reflection, the action. Then second is when I was actually on the mission, I was feeling very safe while around the nuns.

They were like really, really like very enlightened people. It's like people who dedicated their entire life for the good, like for the improvement of others' lives in such difficult circumstances. And I was able to see two things. One, the mission where 50 girls are staying and being sheltered and being fed and kind of learning, giving the opportunities. We talk so much about inclusion and diversity. You've got to give the opportunity. for them to actually be included, feel that they belong. So those kids, those 50 girls, age from 5 to 19,

they were giving that opportunity. And I say that particularly when I look into the other side, so we have the mission where the girls were staying. And we also had, we visit the actual communities. This particular mission supports around 144 communities. And by supporting means, teaching them how to care for the land, bringing to them knowledge that they can use so they don't starve and action, like helping with the right part.

helping to find water, right? Because dry, it's like this is not having water is one of their main issues in that particular region. And you can see where the kids are coming from. Those are the communities that the kids on the mission were coming from. And that creates the whole appreciation for why the kids are so thankful, so grateful for that opportunity. And so that's dichotomy between where they are coming from and what, what are you doing with the opportunity that you're giving, right? That's like for me a very powerful learning in terms of what you get out of it and how you can apply that on your day to with your, if you're truly interested in making people feel in, like, create a safe space where

people can actually innovate and create, you've got to build that, like, a state of trust. You've got to build the state of feeling grateful for something, for someone. And I was in awe of those four nuns working on the mission. The third piece is when you're volunteering, of course, when you are volunteering, of course you take time away from your family. In my case, I did. So it's like it's selfish to some extent. Even though it's like my intent was what can I do while I'm there to be useful for those kids,

even if it's to give love or to listen to them, play with them, or clean walls or build walls. So the other part of the takeaway is you come back with your energy tank filled. And the people you volunteer with, you create an additional bond because you see them like day after day sleeping out together. It's like it's a different bond that you create with that group of volunteers. I'm fortunate that I was brought into this group by one of my mentors who I have worked with in the past. And I will keep coming.

So what my call for action, when I think about corporations, a lot of the large corporations are already enabling pay time off for volunteering. And think about, and I have had the fortune on my prior employer to actually launch pay time off, focus on volunteering. volunteering volunteerism. And the intent was that people could volunteer as a team, as a group. And that on itself creates the mental fitness that we are so, that we keep seeking, right? That I'm not even going to say happiness. It's more like your mental fitness, you're like grounded. you feel like you're a part of this community of individuals that are that are purpose driven.

So that's my, I don't know if you have any questions, like you want to explore further. That's the, those are my, that's like, again, like how it's made, like being part of this volunteering opportunity. made me feel like what was the what was the outcome of the past 15 days or so and the call for action right so it's like rethink what's like how time is used in a manner sometimes mental fitness it's it's fantastic that companies are offering mental health care like as part of their employee benefits and that they are more proactive at supporting that employees use that, like if needed, use that service. On the other hand, there are different ways to deliver mental fitness.

You can have a culture that enables learn it all, I think, like, if I'm not mistaken the Microsoft CEO uses to like has mentioned but more than that it's a culture that

people, that individuals are not there only for themselves they are there to really uplift others as they are progressing in their careers, right? You think about the people manager role and etc. And I know a mental fitness too

could, why not volunteering as a team? Why not seeing people in action? How they, they actually, what they get out of that experience, right? And measure, I believe in a data-driven person and measure that. There are plenty studies talking about how that's the importance of that. And volunteer, it's not just on site. You can be volunteering as a mentor, or you can volunteer, and that takes me to the second part of our conversation. I promise I'll pause, which is why I volunteer my time, and I engage others to volunteer with me by others, me industry means. industry experts and field experts that actually are the ones building the wisdom behind health at work and people. Let me pause. It's wonderful. The idea of getting the opportunity

to go to a place where you can become part of the solution, even if it's just for a short time and getting to make a difference in someone's lives, there's no. No doubt that that has a radical effect on how you see the world. And it would be amazing if more people could get that opportunity to do that. I'm wondering how long does that affect last? You know, because if you go there for like a month or two months and you're around, these incredible people, you come back. You have some really different feelings about you might start feeling a little bit guilty

for all the things that you have or you might start thinking like, wow. But maybe you could speak to the idea of how you felt when you come back and how long that feeling of empathy and well-being lasted once you got back. Interesting question. I can turn that question around. Imagine when you go, like, tell me what do you feel? When you go on a trip, like when you go, when you travel, and you had really an amazing time on that travel.

So on that take, like, you create memorable experiences and you are back. And now you are back at work. And life goes on. Everything else was happening while you're having those memorable experiences. How does that make you feel? Sometimes disappointed. Disappointed in the environment in which I live. It makes me see myself in a way of maybe I'm not doing.

enough or maybe I'm in an environment where there's not a whole lot of opportunities or maybe I'm in an environment where people aren't really thankful for all that they have. And that's maybe that's the catalyst for making big changes in your life or changing your environment. But, but that, I love going on those big trips. And I love getting to see the world through a different lens and experience myself in a different way in a new environment. But coming back sometimes is like, you know, you get that, that sort of dip like, oh, that was. beautiful. How do I do it more? But I think it's a catalyst for change. Yeah, so it is. I sense like the frustration to so much step.

Yeah, totally. So, yeah, for me it was one gratitude, right? Gratitude for the people that stayed here, right, in the States, and they're helping to keep my family running as I was away. gratitude for the people that host lives, their lives like I mentioned the nuns, but the people

working on that particular mission, their own mission is to work with those girls. So it's like gratitude for them. That's not only they are helping with shelter, they are helping with education. They are also providing love and care to those kids, right? So it's gratitude for them. And it's grounded. It's not that I feel that

the guilt we need to kind of call it is like you build the self-compassion. You do whatever you can do. But yes, you need to be like aware of the emotions. And I'm like, okay, I need to find a way, whatever I do that brings sustainability to my work. It also needs to be purpose driven. So you can insert, Like I mentioned three takeaways, the pause, the reflection, the reframing, right, of emotions. I also mention about sometimes you need to see like things that you don't think it's fantastic. You see from different lens. So you can understand that it's not perfect, but it's already an improvement. So let's celebrate the improvement, particularly when you are coming from,

something that's really hard, like a very difficult and complex problem. And you see the improvements that's problem, right, of creating a solution for that particular problem. So it's like the frustration is it's good. I don't think it's bad that we have that eagerness to anxiety to some extent because you can reframe that when controlled, when it's not something that actually can become something to get you stuck, anxiety can actually power you. I can empower you to take action, right?

And here is my action. Go check out tracking for kids, Mozambique. The lingering effects, I think it's if you won, like for anyone, going on a vacation trip, whatever you are doing, perhaps try to do some journaling. And if you were able to journal, right, even with your pictures, just think about what's happening with you in that particular moment.

Because sometimes you, by journaling, it's kind of you were creating more memories that you can kind of pick from when something when something happens in your life, when you are going into a meeting that is challenging for you, right? Or when you are working on a project where there is a lot of disconnect, right? You don't feel that there is a flow. Can you bring those emotions back, like from the moments you had that you can consider happy moments, right? and understand what can I do.

You can only control one person at a time yourself. Right? So what can I do to actually help the people around me to reconnect? So then it goes back to some of the principles of boundless leadership, compassionate leadership, where you think about, you put like you're developing empathy but it's not that you are suffering with the other. It's more that you acknowledge what's happening with the person across from you and you can think about you. Your intention is to find ways to uplift that person. And that does not mean,

I know that you see that I'm switching the topic from like the key takeaways, right? And the effects. So as if you manage people, right, and you are on this situation, you are either on a team meeting or delivering or checking on performance goals. Can you find a way to go beyond the check the box numbers and think of what are there any skill gaps that? could be filled. So this person can be, can improve, can be successful on this particular project. And sometimes is, is the person, like this person's purpose, I can excuse, like, more than the skills, it's like, is this person being, is it, is it the right fit? Could this person be excelling somewhere else?

And what's the pathway to help that person get there? Right. So that's like, again, it's not just about check the box. Let's see what, of course, you do need to have discipline on your project. You need to have a diligence. So, but it's very easy, right, to see. and I saw that so many times that people managers, for example, which are sometimes in leaders that are sandwiched between results and the team asking them for support,

that when everything is, when the company results or like the clients are happy, I'm the perfect manager. Yeah. If something goes wrong. that's the moment you really need to tap into those memories or anything that can really bring to you. Well, we are here as a team. It's accountability of the team. It's not about the blame game.

It's about what can I do to actually understand, number one, the situation and work towards so. moving, if there is a solution in place. Does it make sense? Yeah. It does. On some level, it makes me think about the incentive structure for a volunteer versus an employee or a manager. You know, when you're volunteering, you have a different set of incentives.

Like you are looking for these ways in which you can help people create a better path forward for themselves. But when you're a manager, you are up against barriers. are up against certain sets of numbers or quotas or production standards. It's, it must be interesting to be able to flip, but I can see how volunteering would help you in those areas, like, okay, how do I really put this person in the right position? Yes, yes. It does.

And again, I think the volunteering, the filling up your energy tank, energy tank. it's like it's even if you are physically exhausted sometimes it's like it just it makes you feel that you were part of something that your family is bigger

your community is bigger right and that whatever you're doing the let's say the small ocean in a drop is is making a difference to someone right now that's

that's and you when I went to go beyond the volunteerism so you can even I mentioned like you're on a family vacation you're creating your memories you can use that moment to start developing some awareness and again I do believe meditation helps me as a person, but I don't think meditation is something. Like, everybody needs to find their own path. And meditation is something that you need to practice. Sometimes I'm happy if I can do 10 minutes the most. And why do I, and one on, like, you can sing on those communities.

You see them in a very difficult situation from your eyes. right from your eyes you're like how can someone live like that yep that's your preconception and they're singing of gratitude and they're singing saying that where you go um in their own like language where you go you take a piece of my heart with you like you carry me on your heart so those are things when i talk about energy tank uh you you will have that smile or you have that circumstance that you ground you to what's really relevant as we live as, like as people, right? Yeah.

It blows like, it's such a disparity, not only in geography, but in different ways that live our lives. Like, how do you explain the concept of life insurance to somebody in Kenya? Like, that's like a foreign concept of them. And over here, we're just bickering back and forth about it. I would explain the same way that I would explain here. So when I think about now you're bringing me back. So when I think about insurance, I usually, instead of talking about the product itself,

I think about what does that do? What is the purpose of that particular product? And I cannot say anything else then protect. protection. You're protecting that person against, like, the loss of life. So you're not leaving your family and what you have built in a way that they're going to take 10 steps backwards to rebuild their life again. You're providing, at least you're removing one roadblock, which is the financial impact of losing a life. But I would just one word protection.

That's how I think about insurance. And that multiplies on health, that multiply, like health, disability, life insurance, and longevity in the list goes on. I'm going to pause now. Tell me more because I can jump right way on health at work and people, that's another way to volunteer, right, is with your knowledge and with your expertise. And then I think we can, I can talk a little bit about the upcoming

health at work. And if you want, if there is any, any of the health at work collaborations that you have a question about, right? We can chat about. burnout or like gestational diabetes or anything that's the um comes to your mind please feel free to jump in how does that sound should i jump into my other way of volunteering yeah i think it's i think it's wonderful let's talk a little bit about health and working people all right so think about the way i see is let's say that you'll take a step back okay volunteer has different shapes, right? You can be there in person as we were a few weeks ago, or you can volunteer your time towards sharing your knowledge, as long as you are sharing your

wisdom, your knowledge, with the purpose of, like, who is benefiting from? And after working many years for large corporations, I wanted to do some different. I wanted to improve the alignment between my mission, my purpose, and my actions. And that's how health at work and people started. I wanted to create knowing that sometimes employees are not able to properly advocate for themselves. I looked into top health risk concerns, or health or well-being concerned, that impacts employees, and I bring data to it. So usually, so those are collaborations,

publications that I have on LinkedIn. It started with cardiovascular diseases. I think that was one of the other than digital health care, but it started with one of the top causes of death globally, right, when a cardiopathy. And I usually, what I do is, why should you care? And by what are the numbers behind it? What happens?

What is the, are there inequities when you think about the certain diseases, right? Are there inequities to be considered that we need to be aware of? What happens if employers do nothing? Is this something that they can, that they can just say, this is not my responsibility, which is fair. I'm not saying promoting that employers

needs to act on every single piece of your health and well-being. They need to prioritize to be, they are also running a business. But where are the key actions that employers can take and it still like continue to be sustainable. And that goes into what best practice could look like. And usually I split between awareness, education, and care. And we think care, it's not just about offering health care,

but it's also about cultural shifts. Right? We just talked to like one of the, so that's like, And in a nutshell, before I go into the topics, the needy-rady of the topics. So Health at Work is a newsletter that was created back late in 2022. It serves two purposes. One is a self-advocacy tool for employees to use that and perhaps have a conversation with their companies, with their corporations, on actions that they could. be taking. So it's as simple as, let's say that you are one of the individuals that are passing

through metropause as a live stage. You can take that collaboration that was focused, health at work collaboration that was focused on menopause and has the data driven, the why, how to take action and say, is there anything that we can do on. this list. What and the other thing that I want to mention is it's good to have as a baseline, but if I'm sitting on an employer side,

I can look at what best practice looks like. I can look at benchmarking, but the question that I should be asking is what exactly is impacting my workforce? What are the top health risk concerns for my workforce? When I think about hospitals and

burnout within healthcare workers. What exactly is driving that burnout? Like, what are the misalignment between purpose and action or activities, day-to-day activities, or the way the business is running or the way the culture is running? So it's not a, I solve with one action. That's why you need to ask the question and understand what exactly is impacting your workforce. But let's say that you are someone, as I said, like you are seeing, I mention menopause because this was launched last year where maybe slightly before the boom of everybody talking about menopause, which is fantastic because it just makes the conversation more normal, right? Then it's a life stage. We just need to figure out how to best serve 50%

of the population that if they're lucky enough, they will be there at some point in their lives. And get that resource. Share, and that's like I was on a pie. I will give you why I mentioned menopause. I was on a party with a few friends. And one of them said, I got your health at work collaboration on menopause and shared with my CHRO and had a very good conversation on what can we do about it. So it made me happy. Good. And on the other side, not every single corporation will be able to do it all,

but you can start asking, you can leverage the vendors you have now to act on those different top health risk concerns, right? Instead of having a more passive relationship with your vent. That's another avenue if you don't have money to invest in additional offerings, right? And then if you let me pause before I go on because I was also planning to talk a little bit about how I think about bringing inclusion into benefits offerings and the third, like any and how I think about, how I think about, building an offering that really is people-centric. Yeah, I would, for a moment, maybe we could dig down a little bit deeper on life stages

in the workplace, you know, with an aging demographic that we see here, like, that's a big part of what's happening. And one thing I really noticed about your newsletter is really comprehensive. There's a lot of information that you do go into, hey, this is why it's important for people that might be in the C-suite to take a look at the real effects on productivity. You know, if you have someone at home that's going through a certain stage of life, that person's probably not going to be as productive as someone that's 20 or 22, and they're just getting rid of that person that might be 50 or 55.

Like, that's, that might look good in a boardroom, but that's going to cause a lot more problems when you start getting rid of people that have experienced. That does not look good anywhere. Discrimination against the stage does not good to look anywhere. With regards to longevity, I think I had a recent post on that, just reacting on a very good paper that I read. I believe the data set us free. And we have this beautiful, when I think about longevity, I think that, I'm trying to remember. remember his name, so I apologize. If I don't remember now, I can share his report afterwards.

But I've seen several on the same line, on the same line that made me reflect, which is knowledge nowadays. If you happen to have access to good technology, you have access to knowledge. Knowledge does not translate into experience and reason, knowing how to you have access to knowledge. Knowledge does not translate into experience and reason. and knowing how to use that knowledge at the right time. So the way I see different life stages, and the wisdom does not come necessarily from the older generation to the younger generation, it should be like, I should say that it should be cross generations, right?

But with experience comes the opportunity for you to actually coach others. So that's one, mentor others. It's improves. We talk all the time about skills and learning, like learn it all instead of knowing it all cultures. So to learn it all, to be on that position that you are always learning, people as even if you have 20, 30 years of professional experience. It's also your mindset of, I don't know it all. I can always learn. And what the employers could do is map, right? What are these cues gaps that maybe that generation was not exposed to how you can close those gaps? So if you close the gaps, you have a population that continue should be, even in different states of life. I, uh,

think of so the next topic for health at work is focus on caregiving and i will tell more about that but think about someone who is now the kids are off yeah they still like of course you are if you are on my generation you have you're caring for your parents and you're caring for your children if you happen to have children um so you are sandwiched on your personal life and if you you happen to be a people manager responsible for others careers and success at work, you are also on that sandwich at work as well. Right. So when like when my kids are off to college, like if I happen to have the kids going off to college, how many, I have way more time to act. actually, and I'm careful with what I'm going to say next, because I say this as an observation,

you actually have more time to dedicate to certain projects or like you have the opportunity to risk a little more, right? If you have again, every, every, uh, everyone has its own circumstance that they are dealing with. But you have that I, I, I have someone, mind that I observed that. She was like a fantastic employee while, like, while raising her kids. And once the kids were off to college and et cetera, she actually, on top of becoming, on top of what she was already doing well, she was able to risk and grow and get more responsibilities. So it's when you say,

oh, I'm on a different stage, the different stage has to do with what's that person's circumstances and what the time they have available, being very practical. And what really drives joy, what is the, like, whatever they are doing, are they, do they have that beautiful

alignment between, purpose and action. Yeah, that's, I think it speaks to the complexity of stages of life and being fortunate. I can't help but think of when we talk about being sandwiched in, in between our parents and our children or in the workplace. Is that something that you see as a big difference in culture is that it seems to me in the, in the Western world, there's not a whole lot of intergenerational living. Sometimes there's not a whole lot of intergenerational relationships. And there's a lot of wisdom and health care that happens in that relationship and that intergenerational living. Maybe you could speak to that for just a moment. Unpack a little more.

Okay. So it seems to me that I live with my my in-laws and my wife and my daughter. And my daughter's 11 and my like the amount of wisdom that happens between my my my in-laws and my daughter is is a relationship that I don't have. So there is a certain sort of expectation for my wife and me to be responsible for my in-laws when they get older. Like they have done lots of cool things for us. And so there is a expectation that this is what a family does. My family, when I grow, my parents got divorced, there's not that expectation there. Like they moved on with their own lives. And I see that in a lot of the people that I went to school with. It seems in the Western world, we send our old folks to an institution to a home.

We send our kids to a school and then we go out to work. But in other cultures, it seems more holistic. Like there is more of a cultural foundation for we stay together as a family. So does that kind of unpack it a little bit? Yes, it does. And I will add one more cherry on top. Sometimes it's out of necessity that you live to go. together, right? Let's be honest.

Yes. Yeah. Because if you are like if you have, if you are living more than your assets can hold. Right. So that's one. You may need like you there will be no choice like and sometimes you will make it do by having, by develop. It's not just a compassion because it's beyond that. It's like right. it's better for us to live together, right? Than like funding for separate housing. Yeah. You have also, and that's the beauty of,

remember you asked me about longevity. Yeah. If you're lucky enough to continue, like every individual needs to know what, like if they have the luxury of choosing whether or not to stop working on a, let's say, on a corporation and maybe dedicate their time to something else. That's whatever retire, if you want to call that retirement, because I think now there is no retirement to the old sense of I'm doing nothing. Right.

That I really love. And I see so many people flourishing at that state and doing good, right? So the way I will bring us back to the to employers, right, recognizing that the sandwich generations happen and that if nothing is done, you will have your employee, for example, spending hours to find a healthcare professional for their kids or for their elders. or they may need to take their, like, the people that are, they're responsible for a doctor's appointment, right, or to other chores. If you don't have, like, if your employer, on the other hand, identify, is able to identify those roadblocks for people to be actually focused at work, right? Because again, in the end, you do want to have, you need people that can deliver on your business strategy, on a business violence and et cetera. So if you can remove those obstacles with, for example, flexible working schedules, not just saying you have a flexible working schedule, but actually empowering people to take others, other things. that come to mind is advocacy services within your healthcare provider.

So could you have advocates that you're actually able to match the care you need versus like the healthcare professional? And things like, like we did, I did implement, but it was, let's say, enabled during, COVID. We had actual caregiving. If I have an emergency at home and I don't have someone, and I would need to stop working to care for someone, like, either an elder or a children, like one of my children, that I have someone coming to my house, someone of trust that will be able, to stay with my family. And by doing that, I would be able to stay at work, knowing, stay focused, present at work,

knowing that there is someone caring, like, for the, like, for, for the people that I love. So those are things that come to mind. There is way more than that. Oh, as I was saying, and I'm looking at the clock now, the next, another point on longevity has to do and connections goes back to the US general surgeon report last year on loneliness in isolation. It's like building connections, it's something that we will, as human beings, like hopefully we will keep going back to the same point. virtual, you need to find a way to build those connections.

That's my own version. I don't see us being alone, right, completely alone and well. I see us as connected beings. We are part of an ecosystem. So as such, we need to, like more, as more tools come out to help our kids to really learn what we learned when we are younger.

Like, what, that's when we are younger, but what we learn, I'm still young. What we learn and that they will be able to build those meaningful common actions across generations. It's respecting your elder, but it's more than respect. It's more than like fearing your elder. It's more like loving them and creating a connection and also identifying ways that they can connect with other human beings in a way that's safe, in a way that will help them to learn something new. The caregiving piece is something that employers cannot ignore.

In the U.S., about 90 to 1% of people at work are also. caregivers. So it's not that I can, so knowing what's really happening with them that are impacting their work, it's relevant because if employers can alleviate some of the burden that caregivers have, they are creating a culture where people, people, people will be, I don't know if it's gratitude is the right word here, but that people will feel cared for. And being very practical, like I gave a few examples, that they will have the resources and the time taking, that would be dedicated as a caregiver, putting on the hands of other people while you can focus at work.

right? So that's a wing wing in terms of of course you need to prioritize, you need to figure out what can be launched that's really relevant for your organization and it's sustainable because the moment for whoever works on with people, if I give you a lollipop even if you don't like that lollipop or don't care for that lollipop. If I take

that lollipop away, there will be a lot of shouting. Yep. Right? So it's, it, whether I, the, the joke here is you need, the communication needs to be very clear on what you're doing, why you're doing, what's that for and whether or not that's a forever situation or else, right? So it's like managing, again, people's emotions at work. Yeah, it's it's such a complex situation. When I read the newsletter, again, it's so comprehensive. You really dig deep into the good people in healthcare, the good people in medicine.

They're going out of their way and you do a great job at explaining the complex situation they're up against that forces them in these situations. You know, whether it's, you know, the pay for the pay model. Yes. Yeah. maybe you could dive into that a little bit. So if we are specific on the collaboration, burnout in the healthcare system. So number one, I tell you why I was on the path of being more,

like my research path was towards obesity and diabetes. I paused that to bring back burnout. And it was as a request from my fellow colleagues at the Global Health Care Leaders Program, an executive program that I have recently finished at Harvard Medical School, because it was something. So the physicians asked me to, can we reconsider and bring this topic back in a way that, because I have touched upon like burnout before on a context, of mental fitness. But it was really rewarding to see it on a context of an actual industry, right?

And in a set of professions like that have a direct impact in all of us, those are the take care, like, supposedly, like they are the caretakers of our health. right so what are we doing that's creating the burnout right what is happening on a system and that's creating the burnout and it's never about victimizing uh healthcare workers right they actually to be a healthcare professional uh i'm i'm always in awe of some of my my friends i can call friends because the level of resilience that you need to take on a day-to-day basis, it's something that it's something to admire. The point here is what can we do, again, to remove roadblocks

that would not lead them to be disconnected with why they decided to become healthcare professionals in the first place. So that's, it's beyond the talk, it's actually asking the question in a, way, I have had the fortune of receiving, like, of learning from several chief digital officers from large hospitals in Boston. And they actually went after the data to looking to, like, so number one, when you think about these steps, right? So you start by identifying who is impacted by it.

Just list down who are impacted by that particular issue, who is impacted by burnout. And then you're actually moving to measuring what are the root causes of the burnout. It has to do with, I'm spending too much time to enter health records in the system. And last time looking and creating contact with the patient. am I spending what they call PJ time after work to be dedicated to now send emails, like respond to emails, or things like I'm spending too much time on claims that were declined by the health care, like by the payers, right? or prior authorizations. So there are a few, when you go down into like the level of what's really burning them, like can I remove some of that?

And sometimes because, specifically because we are talking about, we are having this conversation on technology, the thought was, what is the technology in this case? I already know my root cause, like some of my root causes. What is the technology that can be of help here? Not the other way around. Just a pause. There is no such a thing as what is your AI strategy?

There is, I have a problem. I will find a solution. And if the solution is leveraging the power of like AI to help address some of what I have just mentioned, like capturing some of the hospitals now are like piloting, capturing voice to text in a way that the systems can properly understand and creating about our lives, creating intelligent meeting notes, or responding to patients' inquiries,

at least have the draft that the doctor can then verify, validate and send it out. So that's like, start with asking what is driving and then look bigger because in the healthcare system, it's also the frustration sometimes that I heard over and over that you got to attend X amount of patients per day. Right. So the whole concept of it's not, I don't want to blame anything or everything on fifth per service. It's more the business model. It's like, how can we take the waste out of different

parts of the healthcare system? So the doctors can actually be focused on their patients, have a holistic view of what's going on with their patients as opposed to per body parts, right? That care coordination that's so needed, and particularly with chronicle illness. So looking into who is impacted, what is the root cause, then you start listening, like you start putting together. What are the different, what I call solution mapping? What can change looking at culture, looking to ways, which is like ways of working, right? Your day-to-day interactions with people, how people managers are trained, for example. example, right? And you're looking to what are the, like, what's offered to those employees, like, to

relieve some of the problems that I have. So it's not just, what I'm trying to say is, it's not just technology. It's not just culture. It's not just, it's not just one piece. It's looking holistically, what can be done to address those different issues. that you have identified by talking to impacted stakeholders, by looking into the data in different formats and shapes. And then from there, let's say I have 10, 20 different actions that I could be taking. I need to prioritize. And I need to make sure that all this process is happening in a way that the communication is clear. So people, you're asking a question, you've got, to get back to them and say,

this is what we are doing with the responses. You need to be honest about it and transparent about it. And then you create your MVP's like your minimum, like you implement the hard stuff in small steps, like the complex problems and their solutions in these small steps, you test. There is like for healthcare, it's, a little more sensitive than perhaps if I'm selling, if I'm buying a pen, right?

I'm talking about people's lives. Totally. So there is a whole care. And you check, let's say, we implemented, you check whether or not that particular action is really driving change. And if not, why not? So that's continuous curiosity needs to be in place. And it's not similar to when we think about inclusion.

It's not check the box. It's something that you need to have, it needs to be part of the organization that's check on what's impacting how to solve. Or what's impacting my client how to solve. right? Is there anything that if we don't have, I was just talking with a friend of mine a few minutes ago and he's already thinking of something that may be viable five years from now, right? But he's already building the right blocks and building the right resources for that service or product that could be launched five years from now. So that's, that's evergreen curiosity paired with action need to be part of the equation.

I think does it, and on burnout, again, it's not just about day-to-day activities. Be curious about whether what you're doing with your employees. like are your employees purpose aligned with their action? I think and that's like I it's also a work that each individual needs to do. It can be facilitated by the employer. Why not? Why not when I think about mental fitness have that reflection on purpose driven mission. Right. And kind of bring back the joy of why I'm doing what I'm doing. Who is impacted by it? Yeah, it's, it's brilliant in so many ways. I heard a quote a while back that said employees treat the customers the way they're

treated, the way they're treated by the people at the highest levels. And when we start seeing it through that lens when, you know, when we look at it purely from a business standpoint of view, you're kind of taking the care out of health care, right? And I've seen countless videos and talk to doctors that say, you know what, I can't do it anymore. Like, I'm not going to, I love medicine. I love helping people, but I can't do it anymore because I don't feel like I'm helping. And that's a real tragedy when we see the people that have signed up their life to learn about how to helping people saying, it doesn't work, I can't do it.

Like, that's a real tragedy. But one thing I really love about the things that you're saying is you're providing solutions, like your friend that you spoke to. Also in your newsletter, you spoke. about a potential shift into values and outcomes and like this whole new model that's really exciting. It's kind of emerging as we talk right now. You can see this new world developing. Maybe you could talk a little bit about that. You are referring to value-based care or?

I am. Yes. Sure shift. I think that, yeah, go ahead. So the value bit, like on the, I'm trying to pick back, go back in memory. So when I talk about the business model similar to what you have just shared, it's not, the data is out there, right? That fee per service model. And there's, I need to have 10 minutes with a patient and that's it. how in 10 minutes, and if you're doing that over and over and over,

how you would be able to really develop the whole compassionate care for your patient. So that's like it just does not make sense, right? For the type of what you're aiming to deliver. And the other point that came several times is like, I think I mentioned, that the care coordination. How are you really being interested in learning different, that's hopefully we will evolve in technology. So it will be easier for physicians to more and more,

to see red flags relate. Not necessarily. I'm going to see a heart doctor. But I happen to have another issue, not necessarily related to the heart. right that could be impacting what I'm feeling right if the doctors are not talking if there is no care coordination system that's a heart doctor would not know what's happening and what was the treatment path or etc so hopefully I'm trying not to

lose we have the thread but when you think about the value-based care that's shift from fee per service to value-based care. It's actually looking into, and there are several companies doing a good work on that front. It is still an embryonary stage, but it's that concept that I can be measured, not on how many patients I have seen per day, but what was the value added through the care,

like through the entire care. again, it's focus on a patient, improvement of health as opposed to that 10-minute visit. So in that sense, it's like when you think on a consulting site, you have projects that you have per hour, you have your per hour fee, and you have projects that you treat as when I deliver this outcome, I will receive this amount.

I'm just like business model shift. So one, I'm doing a per hour thing that sometimes why I'm mentioning those two models. Because the fee per service, it's not necessary. It may work in certain situations. Right. But if you have a condition. that requires different specialists working together. And you have one, like your improvement of health,

it's not necessarily dependent on one single, like, source. My project, like the out where I will add more value to that client is to see instead of that one-time check up with one doctor, that I will see the entire value that was added by connecting, interconnecting with several doctors, right? Or, and I mentioned doctors here, let me just take a step back, healthcare professionals. So that's the, like, and I don't want to go,

I'm not an expert on vital care, the actual health, but it's just like the way I think is, per hour, per fee per service, versus now instead of my, I will be measured on the outcome that's, of that on a deliverable, which could be I'm delivering better health. That particular patient has now improved from point A to point B. That is like the measure of, that's the value that has been added by what I'm doing.

It just seems like such a better definition of wellness when you look at that whole picture and you see more people coming in to help service and be part of it. I think on some ways it's a good bridge to building inclusive offerings and whatnot. I wanted to bring it up because it's really one of the first times I got to take a look at this value-based sort of medicine is in your newsletter. And again, that's what I think sets so much of your work apart is that you're offering solutions and you're giving people a lens. into the fixes that are on the horizon right there. So I'm thankful for doing that. But maybe we'll shift gears and talk about the building inclusive offerings. All right.

Let's wrap up them with the inclusive offerings. Okay. So without getting very technical but doing so, if you are on the, if you are, building, let's say, healthcare, right? So healthcare, if you're designing a health care program for your employees. So I would do two things. I will focus on employee benefits and then we can just wrap up with inclusion and measuring

inclusion and belonging and et cetera. But if you are thinking about if you want your offerings, to be inclusive of our employees. You need to understand what are the needs of the diverse groups of populations that you have, right? So what I have, what I have had the opportunity to develop with my team in prior roles is, what exactly inclusion looks like for healthcare?

For someone who is, is it offering? same-sex coverage? Is it offering surrogacy benefits? So I don't, instead of jumping into the solutions, we need to go back to the basics and actually go after like different groups of employees and understand from them what are the roadblocks, going back again, what are the roadblocks? blocks for success and acting upon the ones you believe your company should be acting upon, right? And what comes to mind one of the global, like, so it means that you have a system in place. And this is in one of my prior editions, I actually go through every single step of that

process. You're starting with how to capture the voice, the different voices on your organization. The voice of the employee, the voice of the employer, the voice of the market, right? How to bring the three together. And once you have that, let's say that you have, are you given example? You have periodical meetings with representatives of your DNI groups like women's health, or like, or LGBTIQ plus and et cetera. And you listen to things that they are paying the same, like they are paying premiums for their care. But they are not getting the care that they need.

So they feel on themselves that could there be a solution that we address my circumstance. So I'm paying here for the majority that does not have the same issue that I have. It's like it's not serving me. And I will give you, I think one of the examples is a little more like in terms of severity, low severity, but it can create a high impact on that individual's life like JAT coverage. And I'm talking, usually it's US and global. US is a little more advanced in certain, like in certain coverages that are related to different groups of employees.

So can you create, let's say, as part of your design. So now you're looking into design of different offerings. You're looking into LGBTQ plus. and you're looking into health care, what exactly are, what are the coverage that's not offered to this group and it would be relevant to them? Could it be that your marriage leave, and that was a real situation, is asking for a marriage certificate in a country that does not allow for same-sex marriage? So even when you have the offering, or like we had the JAT coverage in a certain country outside of the U.S. And we learned afterwards that there are so many requests asked by the health care payer, like the health care vendor, that this particular employee was waiting for four years, three to four years, if not mistaken.

just answering questions that were not really part of the process. So they are making it so difficult that the employee does not use the care. Right. So you create what is the principle, what exactly you are trying to cover, like you learn what the gaps are in terms of care. And you're looking to health, wealth, and well-being. Because that's like well-being, including ways of working.

and what's missing. And within that context, if you are working on benefits offerings, for example, you start to narrowing down where the gaps are and then decide, do I want to have this gap closed or not? What problem I'm going to solve? is disaligned with the values that I as a company X, Y, and Z, voice. Right? So there is a whole, like as I said, it's the voice of the employee, the voice of the market, and the voice of the business.

So that's like once you have those three together, you can start putting like really, I use it to have a roadmap, like a hate map. where I could see in different design principles, where I have been able to close that my team and I, like where we were able to actually close that gap. And then we would measure, like, the next step is to measure the impact for people. And that could be like,

metapause is another good one or mental health. Like mental health, again, And it's not just about, it's fantastic that you're creating the access, but you also need to understand where it's coming from. Because if you are creating, if you're putting your employees in a toxic environment or in an environment that they don't feel like the, they don't feel cared for valued and they don't feel that they're really creating a contribution that aligns with their purpose,

you are going to have mental fitness issues. So that process of going into, and the inclusive comes, and why it's important to measure, because if you don't measure, you will come back to the same routine of saying, oh, no, I'm covering 80%. If you're not asking the diverse pockets of your population

on where the unmet needs are, right? It's like it's the awareness. It doesn't mean that your company will be able to act in every single ask, right? But at least it's the awareness that needs to be out there. And sometimes it's just a matter of better communicating what's offered. So let me pause because this is like, this is another, like, we could take another hour I'm just talking about that. So my recommendation, yes.

If you have interest in volunteerism, right, look at one of my latest posts, learn about tracking for kids. I'm happy to discuss how I have implemented volunteering time of, not just in the US, but globally. And again, when I say, I understand it takes a village to get something like that in place. It takes a lot of stakeholders and CEOs that are willing to make a stand.

Then the second block, we talked about health at work. The collaborations is out there. It's a comprehensive paper. So if you don't care about the data, why we are talking about it, what's the impact of we do nothing, go straight to the recommendations. and see if any of those solutions fit within the problem you have. Or if you are not the solution, like if you're not part of the group that actually is acting on a solution,

if you are an employee and any of those health risk concerns impact you, you can use that as a tool to just say, hey, is this something we have in our company? To be curious about. Then the third block is when you're creating any product, I mention about people offerings because it's something that are insurance and people offerings and et cetera, because it's something that I have worked throughout my life. You do need to do the homework to understand exactly what is the problem you're solving for. And when you're looking to what is the problem you're solving for, make sure that you're including. different pockets of people, right, that are usually, that sometimes are forgotten or left behind. And then you can start solving for the, like you will prioritize and you will start to solve for

those groups. And there are so many examples that sometimes by fixing, like by helping certain groups of our population. Think about the disability, for example, the keyboard that we are using today, the voice to text, a lot of the technology that is out there benefiting all of us came from, I need to solve for this particular roadblock that someone with a disability has to be at their best selves. So having, you will be benefiting the whole. when you were curious enough to look into the hard problems. And then monitor, measure what really matters. Don't create a problem, like don't create your product without thinking,

oh, what type of metrics will really measure success to the people that we use this product? And that's something another hour of our work would be taking, because that's one of the pitfalls. And the reason why I decided in the first place to launch well-being consulting was so many vendors that I have to vet, I had to work with, were missing the ball on what's relevant to measure. They have fantastic clinical metrics, but they are missing the professional, the performance components of their metrics. And that I would wrap us up to just say, my next realm of research and study where I will be looking up to people that knows way more than I do on that realm is how emotions can impact our mental fitness throughout the day. That's something that I will start incorporating slowly, but there is a lot. to be learned and a fantastic professionals that are working, researchers, scientists that are working

on it. That will be our evolution from mental health to mental fitness when we are actually able to create that awareness and action throughout our days. That is exciting. It's the idea that we can begin to really understand our emotions or understand what that is. I'm fascinated. When is that? Maybe we could talk just for a briefly. I know, I know. It's never a briefly, but the newsletter, is it by month? Is it bi-monthly? Is it once a month? Or when is the next one coming out and how often do they come out? So the next one will come out if I'll go well next week. It will be focused on caregiving. or caregivers.

Let me adjust that. And it's something, I started the research. I'm a caregiver, right? Yeah. But besides that I started the research a few months ago, just bringing together a lot of good data. And it just happens that last week we had the U.S. as a general surgeon, right, publishing on, like, support to caregivers.

It's very, very aligned with what my next briefing and very good data. So I love that that actually took place. And I plan to use that as part of the storytelling. I also plan to look into one segment, which is not a small segment of caregivers, that are actually caring for people with disabilities. So that's like when you think about, okay, caregivers is something that we are talking over and over. Well, there is an extra. When you are a parent of a child with a disability, you are not just a parent.

You are a parent, a caregiver, a nurse, a financial planner, a lawyer, an advocate, and the list goes on. So there is a lot to unpack there. So wait for next week. I'm excited for it. And I think that everybody within the sound of my voice, whether you're watching today or listening in the future, go down to the show notes and check out the newsletter. It's so comprehensive. It's so well done. And I think in this conversation today, you've illustrated to me an incredible amount of

mental fitness in order to talk about such a broad subject and put it down into terms where people can understand and get excited about. So thank you very much for being here today and spending some time with me and my audience. And before I let you go, where can people find you? What do you have coming up and what are you excited about? People can find me on LinkedIn. I will share my email as well so you can connect with me if I can be of your help. I would be happy to. What I'm excited about, I'm excited about what we are doing now. It's like creating, looking into what excites me is what I have the opportunity to evaluate together with others.

Like diversity of thought, it's something real that can really produce a lot of innovation. So having a problem to solve and make and creating, co-creating that solution and seeing it impacting the life of others. That's or that's what makes me like makes me happy within my professional environment. And within my way of living, when I have the opportunity to have interaction, that are meaningful, that I can actually understand, take a moment of pause to understand what I could be doing for others, right? In that moment, and acting on it and seeing the results of that action. So it's like being attentive to your intentions and motives.

That also brings me happiness. It's a working progress. There is no perfection here, right? There are several faces to who we are in different situations. So I think it's continue to work and finding the right people along the way, along the journey that can help me to keep myself true to my values and align it with my purpose. That's great advice. That's great advice.

And I'm really thankful to get to hear it and maybe try to incorporate it into my life as well. I appreciate it. Well, hang on briefly afterwards, Jacqueline. Everybody that participated today and is hearing this, thank you so much for being with us. I hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as we did. And that's it for the podcast today. And Jacqueline, hang on briefly afterwards. Everyone, thank you so much.

That's all we got. Aloha.