TrueLife - Jen Maxfield - More After the Break

Episode Date: October 7, 2022

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/Jen Maxfield revisits ten memorable stories from her career as a TV news reporter, describing in heart-pounding detail how the events unfolded and revealing what happened after the cam-eras went away. She introduces readers to unforgettable people who will inspire you with their hopefulness, even when confronting life’s greatest heartbreaks. You can buy Jen Maxfields new book “More After the Break” via the link below.www.jenmaxfield.com One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark, fumbling, fear. Hears through ruins maze, lights my war cry, born from the blaze.

The poem is Angels with Rifles. The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Serafini. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the True Life podcast. We are here with a brilliant author and an amazing person and someone who has written, I think, a really great book. The name of that book is called More After the Break, A Reporter's Return to 10 Unforgettable News Stories. Jen Maxfield, welcome to the show. Thank you for being here today.

Oh, thank you so much for having me. And hello to everyone who's listening. And I so appreciate your interest in the book and for inviting me on to your show. The pleasure is all mine. I know that you probably have a lot of engagements to get today. So I'm going to jump right into the interview. What was it like to be a reporter and then switch gears into writing a book? How did that come about?

How did you get this book onto the pieces of paper? It was a big change, obviously, from doing 90-second news stories that I would air. I'd write the script, and then, of course, I had video as part of the story. And then to transition now to writing this book that's 256 pages, and there are no illustrations, and there's no video to it. And so, yeah, it was a big adjustment. and I think that when I started out, the length of the book was what was intimidating. I mean, a typical news story, like I said, is 90 seconds or about 250 words.

But then the real challenge, once I started writing it, was to have you, the reader, really feel like you're immersed in the story and to be able to do that through the writing without the assistance of the video. Yeah, it's a whole different animal. And it seems to me, like it's probably a very rich and rewarding process to get to write a story, to read a story, and then speak the story. Because I believe in the audio book, you read the whole book as well. Yes, I recorded my own audiobook. That was a little different than anchoring or reporting a newscast.

I consciously had to slow down. And it was also interesting because I've never had to speak somebody else's dial. because when we're doing news stories, there are sound bites and the person is saying it themselves. So the idea of having to speak what other people said in the quotation marks was a new experience for me as well. But I know that people who listen to audiobooks really like it when the author themselves reads the book. And so that was something that was important to me. Yeah, you did a really good job. I liked in the beginning of the book where you made clear in these particular set of quotations,

I am speaking. In these particular set of quotations, I am not speaking. I think that was a, I don't see that too often. So well done there. You know, I've often heard the idea that out of, out of emptiness, comes compassion. And I'm curious, when you're staring at these empty pages and you're thinking of these stories that you went and you covered years ago, how did you decide which stories that you were going to put into the book? It's a great question because I estimate that over the last 22 years, I've interviewed more than 10,000 people. for the news, which is really astonishing when I think back and look back on all of those stories. But there were certain stories, and there are more than 10, certainly, that are featured in the book, but just people who I never stopped thinking about, maybe I would drive through the town where I'd

interviewed them, or something would remind me of them, maybe a similar story or even someone with the same name. And some of the people I may have still been dreaming about, which gives you some sense of how deep into my subconscious they were. what an impact they had on me. And look, one of the big complaints we get, which is valid is why don't you ever follow up on news stories, right? People are at the center of these narratives and they're in the headlines and they're the lead story on the newscast. And then after a day or two, usually we don't hear anything else about them. And so I figured if I was genuinely curious about what had happened to the people at the center of these news stories, I thought that viewers and readers would be too.

Agreed. Yeah. was there a certain method you used to put the stories in a cadence or like it seems to me the book flows really well and it's it's almost like this unbelievable milkshake of tragedy and heartwarming and integrity and charging after stories so how did you decide not you've spoken about how you chose the stories but how did you decide to put them in a certain order that's an excellent question and i'm so appreciate that you said that you like the way that the book book flows and the cadence of it because the order that you're reading it in is actually not the

order that I wrote it in. And I think for anyone who's listening who may have a book idea, or maybe if you're in the middle of writing a book or a book proposal now, I hope that it gives you some inspiration to know that when I started writing my book, it looks all very neat now with the 10 stories and they're laid out in an organized fashion, but it didn't start out that way. I truly had the book progress in an organic way. where I'd be writing one chapter and then I'd be researching the next and trying to reach out to the person in the third chapter. And that's how it came about. And I think that that is why, to your point, there's a very wide spectrum of the human experience featured in the book because I was writing the book and sort of seeing,

okay, you know, now we've heard from this person. It'd be great to hear from someone who's experienced this. So everything from natural disasters to unjust and car. to crime, to someone who's suffering from cancer, right, and has survived cancer. So there are a number of different things that I wrote about. And the way that we finally put it all together is actually in chronological order based on the day that the stories aired. And so that that's how we eventually laid it out with the exception of the last chapter, which is sort of unique because I reported it as a grad student at Columbia. But yes, the way it flows now, does go in chronological order, starting with the Staten Island Ferry Crash, which was all the way back in 2003. Yeah, it's amazing to me. You know, for people that are ready to start reading a book, I recommend this book. However, there's times where it got pretty intense for me, where I had to set it down for a minute because I was like, this is pretty sad or whoa, I can't believe that this happened.

And as I was taking the time to digest the stories I had set it down, I thought to myself, wow, I wonder what, you were going through, not only when you reported them, but looking back and revisiting that story, did you find some of the same emotions welling up in you? Or did things kind of change a little bit for you? Absolutely. I mean, to your point, these are intense situations. I mean, look, I don't interview celebrities. I'm not interviewing sports stars. The people who I'm interviewing for the news, they didn't even ask to be in the spotlight, right? They were thrust into it based on circumstances that in many cases they could not control. And so I think that the reason that I wrote the story in this narrative,

nonfiction format, but that it really is 10 short stories, is because I agree with you. It's great to be able to pick up the book and put it down and really reflect on, wow, that person went through something that was really dramatic or intense or upsetting. But look at how they emerged after it. and look at how they reacted to it or how they responded to it or how other people responded to it and supported them. And I think that's the beauty of the book and really the through line of the book is that we all go through adversity in one form or another. We're all challenged in certain ways.

And the fact of the matter is that I do believe that the 10 people who I feature in my book have a lot to teach all of us. They certainly taught me a lot about how to respond to these situations and and how to still thrive even after going through something really tough. Yeah, it's, it's, it's very difficult to read, read a story about someone who may have lost some limbs and then feel bad about your coffee being cold. You know,

and I, one thing I really admire, Jan, and I just want to put this out there is, even though it's a, it's a nonfiction book, it kind of reads like the hero's journey to me. Like,

I'm a huge Joseph Campbell fan. And I think it's multifaceted in that the people you interviewed, they were heroes in some ways. And I wonder how much that influenced you. Because what I see between the pages of these stories of this hero's journey is your own journey. Like there's a little biography nestled in between the stories that talks about, wow, we were down in Hurricane Katrina. And we were almost like the victims because we were held up in our room and we didn't have this.

And in some ways, you put yourself in the positions of the people that were the victims of nature or the victims of circumstance. So congratulations for doing that. But how do you feel as the stories that you reported on as like the symbolic nature of our country? I think that it's true. I mean, look, I'd never call myself a victim in any of these stories. And I always say my emotions pale in comparison to what the families are going through, right? But I did think it was important. And by the way, this was one of the hardest parts of writing the book was to include some

of my own reflections and what it feels like to be in the other side of these interviews. Look, it's not a disembodied microphone, right? I mean, we're human beings and we're with people on what might be the worst days of their life for the most chaotic days of their life. So I kept this little post-it note, actually, this is my home office that I'm in right now. I kept this Post-it note that says out of comfort zone, and I still keep it on my computer because writing the book and talking about not only the stories I covered, but also how they impacted me, was going outside my comfort zone,

because that's not usually what we include in those 90-second news stories. And so I hope that the reader is not only inspired by hearing these stories of resilience and bravery, but also just is interested more in what goes into, putting together these news stories that people are either watching on TV or clicking in on their Twitter feed or listening to on the radio. I mean, there's a lot of face-to-face human interaction that goes into these stories. And we as journalists are changed by the people who we cover. I can't imagine some of the stories where you come face-to-face with someone who has lost their child. And when you begin to hear the circumstances of things like this, how difficult is it

for you to keep your journalistic ethics about you. Like you probably want to help people. But in some ways, your job is to be there and show the story. So how do you keep that focus there when you think, maybe I can help this person so much? Right. So you've really hit on a key tension as far as being a reporter.

And that is really a very, very difficult tightrope to walk sometimes. When to your point, we know that somebody's suffering, right? maybe someone's lost their home in a natural disaster or maybe their house has been burned down in a fire. And you are a witness to that suffering. And yet my professional obligation is to the viewer, right? So I need to, as chaotic and upsetting as what happened to the person I'm interviewing is, I need to get that story on the air by 4 or 5 p.m. Because if I don't do it, then the broader community has no idea what's going on.

And then they can't all rally to help. So look, there are a lot of situations where, for example, going back to the natural disaster or the hurricane example, there's no reason that I as a journalist can't contribute to broader relief efforts that are helping people who are suffering in one way or another. The ethical aspect of it that you brought up, though, is that I can't pay people to do an interview with me. That's a big no-no. And obviously, even though we understand sometimes that people could use the money, if you logically game that out, it doesn't work to be paying people for interviews because it disrupts the incentive structure.

And you wouldn't want people, you wouldn't want to be showing up to news scenes and having everybody know that you pay for interviews because obviously what we want is the truth. And if we start paying people and offering people money for interviews, that could distort the information. incentive to speak with us. So yeah, but you're right. It's really tough sometimes being with people on these days. And I try to go into it with the same mantra that my parents taught us growing up, which was to treat other people the way we wanted to be treated. So I go into these situations with empathy and compassion and also a real eye to my professional obligation to write the best and most accurate stories so that the community understands what's happening. Yeah, I like the, I like the way in which you painted the community with your, with your brush. And I think you also

got to paint a picture of human connectedness. And when we talk about helping people, we talk about emotions, there's times in the book where you can, well, you tell some stories that are pretty heart wrenching, but then you tell up how the community, because of the story, was able to see and were able to reach out and help that very person that had the courage to go on and speak about some things that they may not be very proud of. It's true. And, you know, I use that quote from Fred Rogers, right, from Mr. Rogers' neighborhood. Yeah, yeah. He says where he was quoted as talking about watching news on TV and feeling scared and how his

mom said to him, when you feel scared because you're watching a situation that's frightening, look for the helpers. And there are several chapters, right, like the Angel on the Ferry and the Staten Island ferry crash or even the Good Samaritans. who pulled over their cars to help all these kids who'd been in this awful school bus accident in Puranis, New Jersey. All of those people, I believe, really speak to what is the best in people, right? People sort of stepping outside their comfort zone, like I was talking about before, and looking at the world around them and saying, I can't control the bad thing that just happened, but I can control how I react to it. And I'm going to reach out a hand and help.

And I'd like to think that when we tell those stories on the news, obviously we have to tell you about the hurricane that came through. But when we can share the stories of people helping, I do think that that connects to all of us on a, you know, just human nature that we all want to help each other out. And when we are witnessing other people doing that, I think we inspire people sitting at home watching the news to want to do the right thing also. And to not feel so alone, to feel that to understand. that we are all connected. Man, Jennifer, that's, Jen, that is beautiful. First off, let me just start with the little Mr. Rogers, Trojan horse in there where, for me, I have to sit down and be like, oh, it's a beautiful day in the neighborhood,

you know, and like, it just made me stop for a minute. It was a really well-placed time for Mr. Rogers in there, and it hit with the story. Well, for people who are looking to get the book, the book is called More After the Break, and it's filled with incredible stories, but also some really great. writing and I can tell that you put a lot of thought into that. So I guess I'll shift gears for a moment and ask you when the reporting you were doing, it seemed to me that one thing that really grabbed me about your reporting is that there was no political stuff and it was it was about getting to the root of the story and underneath the story there was inspiration. Is that something

that you see maybe has lost its way today? Like is that something that is just maybe for reporters who go on scene like you were going on? Or what's the dichotomy there? Sure. So I do cover politics, not exclusively, but, you know, I work for NBC and New York. So we cover the tri-state area, which includes New York, New Jersey, and Connecticut, parts of each of those three states. So it encompasses about 20 million people. So we obviously have a mission to inform the public, which of course includes political stories.

I opted to not include political stories in my book because, frankly, I think that market is very saturated right now. My book is frequently placed in the current events section of various bookstores, whether they're independent bookstores or chain bookstores. I've seen it in that current event section because I'm a reporter. And it's fascinating to see how many of the other books in the current events sections are about Trump, Biden, January 6th, politics in general. And I'm not suggesting that politics are not important or that these issues are not important. They are. But I don't think those are the only issues that we should be covering on the news. And I think that if we peel away the top layer of, okay, this is what happened today. Let me tell you what happened in this community of ours.

you can really see so much more about human nature. And as I was saying, about the connectedness that we all share and values we all share. And I do think that there's really a yearning with so much of the polarization that we've seen between people on the ideological spectrum. I feel that there is a space out there for a book that talks about people and people's stories and people helping each other out regardless of what their political beliefs are. I think there's not only a space, but there's like this gigantic gap that's missing, you know. And so thanks for helping to fill that void right there.

You know, when I read your book, I get a strong sense of someone who has studied psychology and philosophy. Is that something you had a background in? Or is that something that what you had to start talking to people? So you had to start listening to people and watching things and understanding behavior. Where did that come from? Well, I appreciate that. I guess the best training I had was probably in the house that I grew up in. So I'm the oldest of six kids.

So you can imagine there's a lot of psychology happening in that house, a lot of different personalities and talking to people in a lot of different situations and trying to get a word in edgewise at the dinner table, which I do think still helps me at news conferences to this day. And yeah, I guess it's just practice, right? I mean, if you've interviewed more than 10,000 people, and I'm not talking about quoting people's tweets or just trying to, or trying to call them up or just quote them.

I'm talking about like actually going up to people and looking them in the eye and shaking their hand and asking them to speak with me. So yes, I do think that that's been excellent training as far as trying to understand human behavior and even understanding when people say no and they don't want to talk to me. And that happens too and I understand it.

Because again, these are not choreographed interviews. These are not things that are set up by a publicist. I mean, we are just knocking on doors and hoping that people open them to us. That's such a beautiful, polished oldest sister answer. Like, I bet you are an awesome sister. Yeah, I can see it. Like I can't imagine what it's like to walk into a zone, be it a disaster or be it someone who's lost their life.

I'm trying to knock on someone's door and be like, hey, I'm here to talk to you. Like, did you find that intimidating over the years? Or like you said, you've had 10,000 people. so I'm sure along the way you grew some calluses, but for someone who might be trying to get into the field of journalism, what is that like when you first find yourself out there? Yeah, it's really tough. And I, you know, I will say that I have grown more accepting

of the very vigorous no, which is sometimes accompanied by some four-letter words that I won't share on your broadcast. But, yeah, I get it. I mean, you know, we're intruding on people's lives, and sometimes they welcome us in and sometimes they slam the door and have something to say to us. And I get it and I used to take it personally and I take it less personally now. The hardest part of the job unquestionably is going up to somebody's door and knocking on the door,

ringing the doorbell on what you know has been one of the worst days of their lives. But on the other hand, I think the perspective now of having more than two decades in the business is knowing that if I don't do that door knock, and I don't at least give people a chance to speak with us on the record or even to do something like share a photo of their loved one that they want going out on the news instead of whatever we can find on social media. We have to give them that chance. And when we don't, we are putting out a less accurate version of the story and that's never a good thing. So I understand when people say no to us, but I do think that it's really important for us to make the effort. But any reporter or photographer, anyone who's out in the field and interacting with the general public will tell you, that's a really, really tough thing to do. And it really never gets easier.

Yeah, I really like the term accuracy. And one thing I thought was really accurate in your book is the credit you gave to the cameraman that was with you. I don't think people thoroughly understand the team that goes out with you. Can you talk to people about how important that team is? Absolutely. So, I mean, look, the cameramen and women are super important, and we are a team. And it's interesting you picked up on this because a lot of photographers who I've spoken with about the book have felt really seen in the book in a way that sometimes they're not, right? Their faces aren't on TV.

We don't even put their name on the story, which I know they do in some other countries. I'd love to see that happen here because I think that the photojournalists, I mean, we are part. partners. Everything that I've ever done at work has been a partnership. And primarily it's a partnership between the photographer and me, but it's also a partnership with the people who work back at the station who might be helping direct us in somewhere or tell us, look, we just got this tip into the newsroom and you should try to speak with this person. So I really do appreciate the way that the photographers and I have always had each other's backs because these are some really tight deadlines we're working under. We're in situations that could go sideways

really fast. And I think that the fact that I have gone home safely every day is in no small part to them and to the partnership that we've had and the trust that we have to place in each other. It's well said. I'm a big fan of language. And as we're talking, I really admire the way you you can string together the sentences that make people see things. Like, for example, you talk about how the cameraman felt as if they were seen. Like, what a great connection to put a cameraman being seen. It's like you're putting the cameraman in front of the camera. And I've noticed throughout your book, your ability to not only explain what's happening,

but paint pictures for people to kind of be there and kind of see. Where does your background and language come from? I was a voracious reader growing up. I remember my local public library used to, have a competition every summer. I think they still have it, where you'd have to list all the books you read. And I would just, I'd try to read like a book every day or two. I mean, I just loved reading. And so I think that a lot of us who write are also big readers. And so certainly writing a book was always something that I wanted to do. But yes, I feel that anyone who reads a lot, whether

it's fiction or nonfiction or periodicals or full books, I do think that that does help you communicate with the written word in a way that you might not if you hadn't read as much just because I've had so many phenomenal authors to learn from all of these years. It's interesting how as we're growing up, we don't thoroughly understand the people that are truly influencing us until we get put into a situation where we can fall back on those lessons that we may not even know that we've learned. Staying on the topic of language for a moment, are there some tips and some tricks that you could share with younger people

or even older people that may find themselves in a catastrophic event? Are there some ideas that maybe you can share with them that you have seen throughout the years that maybe kind of general things that people could do if they find themselves in events? Sure. So a couple things. I mean, look, for people who have witnessed something, happened and you're sort of in the moment and maybe you weren't affected by it, but you're watching other people who were. I mean, just the idea of being there, right, of not turning your back or

not pretending you didn't see it. I mean, to just sit with someone in that moment and say, I'm here. Because the truth is, I mean, there's that great Maya Angelou quote, right, that says people may not remember what you said, but they'll always remember how you made them feel. I think in a moment when someone's experienced something, and it's always so shocking, right? Whether people know if you've been in a car accident or any sort of injuries befallen you. I mean, your first reaction really is shock because you just can't believe what's gone on. And so having another person reach a handout to you and just be there is so reassuring in that moment. And I really admire anyone who's a good Samaritan. I'll share a story from my personal life that just happened actually like six weeks ago.

I'm a runner and I was running outside and as a matter of fact, I was listening to a really good audiobook and I must have gotten too caught up in the plot and I sort of missed a little divot in the pavement and I tripped and it was really dramatic. I mean, I was running on a street that didn't have a sidewalk. So I'm in the pavement. It's like spread eagle out on the pavement and I'm positive at least two cars. Saw me go down and just kept on driving and I didn't break anything, but I mean it was bad like with a road rash, you know, that my arms are bleeding. my legs are bleeding. It was bad. So anyway, I'm sitting now on the side of the road on the curb and just sort of getting myself together, like making sure did I chip any teeth, you know, did anything else happen?

And this man pulled over. And again, you're so disoriented in this moment. Like what happened? I was running a minute ago and now I'm bleeding everywhere. And this man pulled over and he just got out of his car. And he said, he didn't see the accident. And he just saw me sitting on the side of the road and thought it was strange. And he just said, can I drive you home? He gave me some paper towels for the injuries. And it turned out that I was fine. I wasn't too far from home. I said, no, it's okay.

I'll get home. But he said, I'm just going to sit here with you for a minute or two until you get up and I see that you're okay. And I just thought, you know, the kindness of this person to just say, I'm here for you. I'm just going to be here quietly until I know you're all right. And I just thought that was a beautiful thing. And I heard a lot of that from people when I was reporting on the book. So yeah. The Good Samaritans are everywhere, and I really think we all have that inside of us.

It's just a matter of when we're tested in that way. Yeah, I think it's a matter of having the courage to do what you know is right, because everybody knows they should stop. Everybody knows that they've been in that position. They wish someone would. I'm glad you shared that story. What if we flipped it around a little bit? What are some things maybe people shouldn't do? Like, I'm sure that there has been people that you're like, I'm going to interview this person.

You're like, wait a minute, I'm probably not going to interview that person. Or maybe there hasn't. But what are some things you should? should be leery of in those situations. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, as far as, you know, I talked about what to do if you witness somebody having, you know, some sort of accident or something befall them. I mean, the one really interesting piece that I learned from the people who've actually

experienced these things, like I'd look at Paul Esposito, who lost both his legs in the Staten Island Ferry crash, he felt that by talking about it and by telling his story, And telling his story, not just to me, but to a lot of other journalists too. He felt like it took some of the power out of it. And the more he talked about what happened to him, and the more he talked about the trauma, he felt that he was sort of able to wrap his head around it a little bit more

and learn to live with it in that way. And look, obviously, it's self-selecting, right? Everyone who I've featured in my book has made a choice, number one, to trust me the day that this happened to them, to trust me with their story and to talk to me about their story. And then number two, to trust me a second time to write about it in the book. But I have seen in all of these cases where people really do feel that not only is it good for them to talk about what happened to them, but it's also good to educate the broader

community. I mean, look, Chapter 5 is about a woman named Tamika Tompkins, who's one of my heroes. She survived this awful domestic violence attack. she was stabbed more than two dozen times by her ex against whom she had a restraining order. And I always say to Tamika, it was so brave of her to go on the news and talk about what happened to her because she'll never know how many other people's lives she saved, how many people watched her interview or heard her story and got out of their own abusive relationships. And now she's coming with me to an event next weekend where she's going and the event is for an organization that helps people

who are victims of domestic violence. So I just give her so much credit for putting her story out there and coming forward as a survivor and saying this is not just some theoretical issue. This happened to me. Yeah, it's amazing the domino effect that a good story can have

because essentially we're all the same and we all have these different struggles. Some of us have more difficult struggles than others, but for someone, for a young girl who may have come from an abusive relationship, or saw her parents in it and then to see Tomika's story, that can give her the courage to stand up before it gets to that point. I'm wondering if maybe, I'm wondering if maybe in your book you have found that the actual story, let me just say this. Is there a certain story that hit you the hardest?

Was it Tamika's story or is there one that maybe you carry closest to your heart? I mean, I could never choose one because I do feel so invested in all 10 of the stories now. But I can tell you a little bit about the first person who I called when I thought of this crazy idea to write this book. And I really do credit Kareen Nelius for giving me the courage to go forward with the idea because I have met Kareen back in June of 2011. If you can believe it, less than 48 hours after her daughter, was killed by a hit and run driver. And Corrine invited me to her home because, as I mentioned, the person who hit her daughter had driven away and police had not been able to find him.

So she was very motivated to get the story out on the news because she wanted him to be arrested, which he was a day later. But I had stayed in touch with Corrine and, you know, I was really touched by her daughter Tiffany's story and the tragedy of all of it. young woman was 23 years old when she was killed. And incidentally, she was a big animal lover. And she was killed trying to save a dog in the middle of the road that had been hit by another car when she was struck.

So the whole thing was so tragic. And when I called Corrine 10 years after I sat in her living room on that awful day, she was so touched by the idea of wanting to spend more time with her daughter's story. and just generally sharing with the public about what it's like for people to be at the center of these stories and then to sort of feel like the interest just drops off. And she really feels that she has a lot to offer to people, whether they've had the tragedy of losing a child themselves or just whether it's about appreciating every day that you have and really savoring the time with the people who are in your life. And so when I called Corrine, she encouraged me. She said, that sounds like an

amazing book, and of course I want to be a part of it. And so Tiffany's chapter three was the first chapter that I wrote. And I really do credit Corrine with propelling me forward on the project. I wish sometimes I was a deeper thinker. And I'm wondering, when you wrote all these stories, was it just that these stories were powerful and they were, they were very meaningful to you? or did you thoroughly understand that you were putting into these pages lessons that people could take away from, whether it was Esposito's bright smile and his family or if it was, you know, the idea that maybe we should be harder on drunk drivers in some areas. Like, did you understand that every story you were putting in there had a moral that people could follow and be inspired from?

I think that I had some sense of that. what you're talking about, sort of the upshot of the story to the reader, that it's part of it, of course, is just the immersive nature of the narrative nonfiction, but there is that takeaway, right, that, okay, now let's take a step back and let's look at this a little more closely than I did the first day the story aired. But I think that it took me some time to really research and write and really have the luxury of time, right? The first time I'm reporting these stories, I don't have much time. I mean, the clock is ticking inside my head the whole time so that I make sure I get my script

to the photographer and the stories edited and I make my live shot. That is the paramount concern on these days. But to have the luxury of time to speak with families multiple times and to go back and ask clarifying questions and ask for more detail and do that research and get those documents. I mean, it's really, it's given me a greater sense of perspective. And I think that the layers that I was able to write about in this book, that is what you didn't get the first time. And part of it, you're right, is that sense of, oh, okay, so I understand the original story was about the ferry crash, but it's actually about, you know, being a resilient person and allowing yourself to still enjoy your life regardless of your physical situation. Yeah, it's, let me, let me throw this one at you here.

Now, when you write a book, there's a lot of things that you have to do. You're sacrificing, especially if you have a family. I can't imagine. You know, so as you've written the book and you've put these stories out of other people, now that you've finished it, what is the takeaway? Like, obviously you want people to read these stories and you want them to get the lessons they've learned. But what are you, Jen Maxwell as an author, want people to take away from this book?

So, yeah, you brought up my family. I am a mom. I have three children. So I did write this typically early in the mornings before they woke up. And sometimes in between their after school classes, I might just sit in the dance school parking lot or in the parking lot at the skiing place and just write for a couple hours while I was waiting for them. But yeah, I mean, I guess what I'm hoping that readers take away from it is really a lot of what I took away from it as an author,

researching and writing the book, which is just to appreciate every day you have. nothing's promised to us and to enjoy the people around you and to appreciate the relationships that we all have, to reach out that hand to other people who are suffering in the community. I mean, there's a great quote in the book from a woman named Isabella Della Husei, who I write about. She has stage four lung cancer and she completed an Iron Man triathlon. She's an incredible athlete and she's currently on year four after. given a six-month prognosis of time to live. So she's a remarkable person.

And she was telling me about the difference between hope and joy. And she said, hope always pertains to the future. Hope is something that you have when you're thinking about something you want to have happen or that you hope will happen, right? Whereas joy you can find in every moment of every day. It's just a matter of setting your mindset correctly and being open to finding it. just think that's an amazing way to approach life. And hearing a woman who really has no idea how many days left she has to live and she knows that it's not going to be very long, to hear

her perspective really did make me look at my own life in a different way. It's always amazing to get to learn and hear from people that have insights into the world that we have no idea about. After writing everything down and after doing the stories, Once talking to people, being in the tragedy, and then going back and revisit it, maybe revisiting the families. Do you think there's anything you would have changed in the initial reporting now that you've written the book and kind of remode it over in your mind? I don't know if there's anything that I would have changed necessarily. I mean, look, the book talks about news being the first rough draft of history. And it is rough sometimes because, as I said, the deadline's looming and you've got to get that story out on the air.

So certainly there's so much perspective and detail that's in the book that you wouldn't have gotten on that first day. I'm just not sure how much of it would have been possible on that first day. And even if I had asked different questions of the people who I interviewed on the first day, I don't think that they would have necessarily had the perspective themselves at that point to say, okay, yes, I survived this hurricane or I survived this ferry crash, or I survived being incarcerated for more than a decade, for something I didn't do. And then for them to have the perspective at that time to really be able to say, oh, and here's what I learned from it, or here's how I survived it,

or here's how I emerged stronger from that. But that is really, in many ways, the value of going back to these stories is that, yes, of course, it's the headline of whatever landed them on the news in the first place, but it's that perspective that I think we can all learn from. Yeah, perspective is a great word and a great way to see yourself and see the world you live in and see other people around you. You're a woman of many hats. You do a lot of teaching as well.

Do you think that one can learn more from being in a classroom and learning journalism or maybe someone going out and just trying to hit the pavement? I would say it's not necessarily one or the other. It's probably both. I think that what I try to impart on my students is that they do need to get out there. And it's not just about reading people's tweets or making phone calls. While that may be part of the reporting process, I think that stepping into someone else's world and going and walking in someone else's community, really putting yourself in their shoes is an important aspect of reporting. And that is how you get the most accurate and detailed stories.

but of course that's not always realistic. And so I do think, though, what I try to impart on my students in class is looking at what I've experienced in the real world and how they can apply that to going out on stories. I know we're getting close to our time, but I have this question that it always blows my mind. There's so much emotion that gets involved in life. And in your book, you speak about in some of the, I think it was in the first story, you speak about it was a time in your life when you were. were getting married and you were sending out wedding invitations and all of us have our own lives and our jobs. How are you able to let go of one and participate in the other? It's true. We all have to compartmentalize on some level, right, in order to lead a life where, you know, yes, I am working

really hard when I'm out reporting and then I come home and I have my husband and my three kids and I have responsibilities and things that I want to do at home. And that's when the work device goes on the charger and I don't look at it. So I can be present for my husband and for my kids. And just like I'm very focused when I'm working on things during the work day. And so I think that that's part of it. And then I also think that part of sort of sustaining my own emotional and mental health is also having those friendships with the photographers,

I'm working with, or maybe it's calling one of my sisters after working on a story and, and, you know, having a conversation that has absolutely nothing to do with what I just covered. Maybe it's taking a walk around the block after doing one of these interviews. But there are certainly things that I try to do to sustain that balance because if you don't have that balance and you do get, you know, you're obsessing over one of these news stories, then I think it makes it very hard to continue doing the job for years or decades as I have. Yeah, it almost seems like there could be a PTSD factor.

And then when you come upon a scene that is, you know, heart-wrenching, it's difficult to let that go. And sometimes those things stick with us more than the moral of the story, is the vision of the story. And I just want it well done on there. And for everybody, the book is called More After the Break, It's a reporter returns to 10 unforgettable news stories. Jen, before we go, I was just wondering if first off, you can, if there's anything else you want to share with us,

and then where can people find you? What are you going to be at, and what are you excited about? Sure. Well, thank you again so much for having me and to everyone for listening. So the book is in a lot of local independent bookstores and the chain bookstores. The easiest way, if you're interested in buying it, is to go to my website. which is genmax steel.com, and there are links to a number of different online sites

where you can buy it. And certainly, if there's a store in your community that you want to support, you can go in there, and they can order it for you. And as you said, I did record my own audiobook, and there's also an e-book version of it. And then local libraries have the book now, too. Very nice. Very nice.

I want to say thank you again, Jen, for your time, for your work out of there, and producing stories that people can read, people can enjoy and people can be inspired. But I think you did a great job at it. So thank you very much for your time. And thank you so much. I really appreciate your time and your interest.

Fantastic. That's all we got for today, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for listening to the True Life podcast. I hope you have a beautiful day. Aloha.