TrueLife - Jennifer Swanson - Curiosity Unleashed: Inside the Brain Games of Science

Episode Date: September 17, 2024

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/Jennifer SwansonAloha everyone, and welcome to another thought-provoking and inspiring episode of the podcast! Today, we’re honored to be joined by a guest whose lifelong passion for science and technology has ignited the imaginations of countless young minds. From starting her first science club in her garage at the age of 7 to becoming an award-winning author of over 50 nonfiction books, Jennifer Swanson has truly dedicated her life to making the wonders of STEM accessible to children everywhere.Jennifer’s books like *BRAIN GAMES*, *SUPER GEAR*, and *Save the Crash-Test Dummies* not only educate but inspire a deep curiosity about the world around us. With accolades that range from the Parents' Choice Gold Award to National Science Teaching Association’s BEST STEM awards, she’s a powerhouse in the realm of science education.But what sets Jennifer apart is her ability to connect complex scientific ideas to everyday life in ways that leave us in awe of the universe. Whether she’s presenting at the Library of Congress' National Book Festival or the World Science Festival, Jennifer reminds us that the world is a place of wonder, waiting to be explored. Today, we dive into the mind of a true science communicator, and we’ll explore how her work helps kids—and the kid inside all of us—unlock the potential of discovery. So, buckle up and get ready to expand your curiosity as we welcome Jennifer Swanson to the podcast!https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifer-swanson-0608471ahttps://jenniferswansonbooks.com/ One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark. fumbling, furious through ruins

maze, lights my war cry Born from the blaze The poem is Angels with Rifles The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Serafini Check out the entire song at the end of the cast Ladies and gentlemen

Welcome back to the True Life podcast I hope everybody is having a beautiful day I hope the sun is shining. I hope the birds are singing and the wind is at your back. I have with me today, ladies and gentlemen. With me today is the one and only Jennifer Swanson. And I would like you to help me welcome her to another thought-provoking and inspiring episode of the True Life podcast. Today we're honored to be joined by a guest whose lifelong passion for science and technology

has ignited the imaginations of countless young minds from starting her first, science club in her garage at the age of seven to becoming an award-winning author of over 50 non-fiction books. Jennifer Swanson has truly dedicated her life to making the wonders of STEM accessible to children everywhere. Jennifer's books like brain games, super gear, and Save the crash test dummies not only educate but inspire a deep curiosity about the world around us, with accolades that range from the Parents' Choice Gold Award to National Science Teaching Association's Best STEM Awards. She's a powerhouse in the realm of science education.

What sets Jennifer apart is her ability to connect complex scientific ideas to everyday life in ways that leave us in awe of the universe. Whether she's presenting at the Library of Congress, National Book Festival, or the World Science Festival, Jennifer reminds us that the world is a place of wonder waiting to be explored. Today we dive into the mind of a true science communicator and we'll explore how her work helps kids and the kid inside all of us unlock the potential of discovery. So buckle up and get ready to experience. Podcast.

Jennifer, thanks for being here. How are you? I'm great. Thanks so much, George. That was an amazing bio. So can I hire you for my publicist? That was awesome. Thank you so much.

Well, I'm truly excited. I have a young daughter and I work at an after school program for kids. And I am just so thankful. that we are showing kids a way in which to see the world, a new lens to see the world that's curious and exciting and invites exploration. And so I figured we just kind of jump right in here. Jennifer, I've got a few questions that I've put up

and a few that my guests have kind of chimed in. And I thought we would just jump into the deep in with both feet. So let me start up with this. Your ability to instill complex scientific concepts for young minds is unparalleled. How do you view the relationship between curiosity and understanding? Oh my gosh, you can't have one with the other. Like, right?

Everything starts with being curious. I was that kid who asked tons of questions. Lots of questions. I was always asking my mom, how does this work? How does this work? And I'm old enough that we had a set of encyclopedias, yes? And I was directed to that quite often. And I read them, I don't know how many, you know, if this is a true geek thing, but I would read

the encyclopedias. Right? And get all the fun facts from there. So for me, curiosity is everything. I have never had a question from a kid that was a dumb question. Right. Right. Anything that they don't understand or even better that they're trying to understand is great to. It gives you kind of a view into their worldview, how they look at things, what their brains are thinking, which is way more than sometimes what they're saying. Right. So for me, curiosity leads to understanding, but also opens way more avenues. If you start being curious, then it's not about one thing. It's all of a sudden three things and five things and ten things. So that's where my brain goes. And I watch kids do this, and that's what's so exciting to me. Yeah, I couldn't agree more.

It's interesting to see that sort of silent pause that happens in the mind of a child when they're thinking. You know, it's like, whoa, you can see the wheels turn. and the bridges being built and the connections being made. Do you think that after the amount of work you've done like speaking and writing these different books, do you think curiosity is something that's innate to the human condition? Yes. Why do you think that? Absolutely.

Absolutely. Now, unfortunately, sometimes what we experience in our lives kinds of quashes that. And I think as adults, maybe we lose a lot of that curiosity we had. as kids because it's not, you know, we're doing jobs and we're doing things and we have, you know, we have to take kids to soccer and all this kind of stuff. But yes, I mean, I have had conversations with people who walk into my presentations and are like, you know what, I don't like science. I mean, okay, I have to be here, you know, it might be a teacher, a librarian, it might be

a parent who has to attend, whatever, it's an adult who's like, ugh, okay. And by the end, they come out and they're like, oh my gosh. Like, I never thought about it that way. And then they'll stay. They're the ones that stay afterwards and ask me all of the questions after the talk. So, yes, all of their curiosity just comes out of them. It's interesting to think that on some level, whether it's our society or maybe life's pressures or, you know, maybe just circumstances that on some level they, they, they, they. sort of take the magic out of science. Maybe it's the way it's presented to us with these hard

facts, this sort of, you know, calculated understanding of what it is. We can't measure this thing, so we're not going to put it in there. Like, what, do you think that there's anything that we can do to present science in a way that still creates that robust curiosity and that flavor and that passion around it to keep us going through science as we go through those gaps? I mean, absolutely. Honestly, the science community is taking steps towards that. There's lots of science communicators now, and that's like their job. So they may not be scientists themselves, or they were former scientists or engineers or whatever, but now they're working to translate what scientists and engineers do into

language that people understand. And so I start with the basics when I talk to kids at schools. I mean, even like kindergartners and pre-cares, and I say, science is all right. you and I asked them and I'm saying all right we're we're gonna look around what do you see that science and they think and you know usually the first ones I get are the computer right the obvious stuff and I said okay yes but what else then one kid will go the chair yes my clothes yes and all of a sudden they start seeing science everywhere it was so funny I was at um a school one time and I talked to, oh my God, the whole school, like, I don't know, 1,400 kids, you know, at different times.

So I was there in the afternoon, but I had talked to the first graders in the beginning. And so I saw them when they were coming back from their recess after lunch. And they're, you know, all walking by and they're all like, oh, you know, there's the author. And this one kid stops and goes, Miss Watson, I discovered science. He was in first grade outside. He goes, we all smell now because it was really hot. And threat is science, right? And I was like, it definitely is, right?

So that kid, I mean, gross, because sometimes science is best when it's gross, right? But that kid was aware of the science all around them. And that, and I think when we are aware of that, then we're less scared of it, right? Yeah, I agree. I had a, can I share a quick story, a little science story with a little girl,

that is in my class. It was one of the coolest things ever. I was working with TK. and kindergarten, and we have this little girl that was running around in. I want you to everyone to, if you're just listening to my voice, picture this. Beautiful young little lady, probably four, four and a half five, maybe. She got long hair, and she's in the classroom, and she has, I have a bunch of kids, but I noticed her in the back by the sink, and she has this bucket that used to hold pens and pencils, and she's filling it up with water. And I look across the sink, and there's a lot of There's an empty, like two empty bottles of baking soda. There's some wet paper towels and some soap.

And I walk over there. And like, the first thing I do is like, this is a pretty big mess. But I'm still, you know, like this is a huge mess. But at the same time, I'm curious, like, I wonder what she's building here. It's probably like a secret potion or something, you know? And so I engage her. And I'm like, what are you? What kind of concoction is this?

And she's like, wait, wait, I can't talk to you yet. And she's mixing and doing this stuff. And she reaches over and grabs a cue tip. and she takes that Q-tip and she dips it in there and stirs it around. And she holds it up to me like it's fire. And she goes, here, put this in your ear. You know? I'm not going to put that in my ear.

Okay. But it's so amazing to see the willingness for kids to begin experimenting with things around them. And if they can at that early age and start seeing results of what is possible, I think the future becomes incredibly bright. Thanks for letting me share that. Oh, absolutely. Oh, I love that story. I mean, I love seeing kids do science.

It's in action, right? Science is powerful when it's in action, and so is engineering. All of these different things, you can touch it, feel it, build it yourself, realize that not everything you do works the first time, right? Yes. But that's okay. And kids these days have so much about they take tests and tests and tests and they all have to do the best at the test.

Well, guess what? Sometimes scientists spend years, months, whatever, creating a project or engineers do, and it doesn't work, or it doesn't work the way they want them to. And, but they learn from it. And that's, that's like your student. She's like, hey, I created this thing, try it out. And maybe she wanted you to try it out. And if you would have said, oh, it didn't work,

she'd be like, that child probably would have gone back and redid her thing, right? Redid the experiment. Yeah, absolutely. And it brings up another interesting point when we're, the idea of science and language. You know, sometimes the language. we use can be limiting. And I almost wonder if there's a parallel because in science, it seems we tend to throw out the things we can't measure.

But those things could have incredible effects on the experiment. Like, how do you balance that? So this is the thing. When I'm writing for kids, I actually try to use kid language. So if I'm going to say something is, you know, 100 feet long, I'm going to say it's the size of a football field. Something is the size of an orange. Something is, you know, when I'm talking about atoms,

then sometimes I use an apple. So there's an apple with the outer skin, right? And then inside the core is the nucleus, and that's where the protons and the neutrons live. So if you can immediately put an image in people's faces, and I say kids, but I actually mean kids of all ages, because this works for adults too. If you can have them see it,

which is why a lot of my books have big images and infographics, then people will instantly understand, or at least have a better understanding of it. And that's how science should be approached in my terms. I mean, we do, you know, we do get all these big terms, and they are important because I use the correct terms in my book, but you have to explain those terms, right, in the way that someone's going to understand them.

It seems to me one of the many reasons you're so successful is that your use of imagery, language, and presentation are sort of creating a new kind of self-awareness. And I see that in kids today. I feel like kids today are smarter on some level. Maybe it's social media. Like, maybe you can, can you dive into that a little bit, like a new kind of self-awareness? And you've already explained it a little bit with imagery and language and metaphors. But maybe you could just unpack it a little bit more.

Well, I think kids are, like you said, they know a lot more than we did, maybe when we are kids. Yeah. A, they're exposed to way more information, and they take a lot of it in. And I'm not sure that everyone understands exactly how much they take in because school is so regimented, right? The teachers have to do like this at this time and this at that time. There's not a lot of science. There's not a lot of room for doing. discussion and critical thinking about science and STEM.

And so when I go to my and do my programs, it's kind of interesting almost, I mean, a lot of the time I go, there's the really quiet child that doesn't, you know, does never raises their hand, doesn't participate, but it's doing a lot of thinking. That child is usually the one that raises their hand 15 times while I'm talking. I can't even count how many times I've had teachers come up afterwards and be. like, that can never talk. Like, and but clearly, and we're having discussions, and it's not just boys, it's girls, it's whatever, but they are engaged.

And I think part of that is because they're invited to be engaged and they're told, yes, we want to hear what you have to say. And I mean, I was talking about particle physics one day, kind of like just, just talking a little bit about how you smashed two items together. I had the opportunity to visit CERN, the Large Hadron Collider, where they're trying to figure out how the universe began, which is really amazing. Super geeky stuff, which was like right up my alley. And I had a picture of it, and I told the kids, this is me standing in front of the Alice detector, and they asked about it. And these are like second graders, right? So I tried to use little things. And I basically said, you know, two protons

go together, and then they fly apart. And all of these things, we talk about the big bang. And one could just raised his hand over here. And he's like, he asked me this really intuitive question, which I can't remember exactly how phrasing it, it was something along the lines of if there was nothing, how would the proton and the neutrons stay together in the nucleus? Are there forces at that level? This is the second grader. Oh, wow.

Um, yes. This is in front of like 150 kids. And the teachers are like, and I'm like, this is a thing. thinking kid and I was I was basically like have you seen big bang there you should be like the next shelving right like he was so and so I gave him the answer that I could in front of the kids that I could but I was basically like come after me and I'll give you a little bit more right this is from a second grader it was incredible the thinking that goes on and this had to me clearly he had to be exposed to this somehow because he didn't just learn this for me but that's what I mean I think kids just

just need to be invited into the conversation more, right? Yeah. It's a fascinating story. I'm super excited to hear it and learn more. You have taught at some pretty prestigious places and definitely given lectures around the world. In a world that was more geared toward education, could you see science sort of being the foundation of a curriculum instead of maybe some social studies or other sorts of, you know, semantic kind of ideas. Like, what do you think about science and engineering being the core?

Instead of it being STEM Tuesdays, maybe it's like STEM every day. So in my world, right, if I get to control everything, let's assume that. Yes, because science relates to everything. Because critical thinking and some of these skills that you have to use in science, like you have to try experiments, you have to look at them, you have to kind of gauge how they work, decide, you know, back up, make changes. All of these are life lessons. They're all life lessons that we all have to do.

Granted, they don't all apply to science. Sometimes they apply to, hey, you know, why is my dog not eating? You know, something like that. So then you try different food with your dog, right? And then you try this and you try different things. But yeah, if it were in science, I mean, there's, I've written books that have history in them. Science and history go hand in hand.

Science and politics go hand in hand because, you know, quite honestly, that's where you get the funding and it's all about the money. You know, writing, scientists have to write huge proposals and they have to write them in an understandable language because the people reading the proposals don't always understand the science. Same thing for us science authors. So in my world, absolutely, I would have a science academy that covered all of the subjects based on science. I just need money to do that, right? Yeah. I'm excited because I see that becoming more and more of a staple in the kids' classrooms. I feel like we're moving towards that on some level.

But with that move comes this sort of like interesting double helix of science and spirituality. What how do like those are very interesting. That's a very interesting relationship. And it's really fun to think about and talk about. Maybe I get what is your understanding or your take or your thoughts on the relationship between science and spirituality? I mean, wow, that is a big, big topic. One, I will preface with, you know, this is Jen Swanson's opinion, right? You know, to me, I think you can have both.

I don't see why not. I mean, if you believe in God or there is a being out there, why? on earth would he or she not create things to make us curious and wonder about it? Why not? Right? And as far as the whole concept of time, and I mean, I've written books that have evolution in it and all this and I realize that those are very particular topics that everybody has their own opinions about, and I'm, you know, whatever, they're all fine.

But the concept of time is something we humans have invented. So I'll just leave it at that. So, and it works for us and it works very well. But in a bigger scale, especially when you're looking at, like, I've done a lot of books on space and looking out into the universe. And time out there is like so different from time on the earth, right? Like we're talking billions and billions of years and billions of distances to get miles to get away from all these places. So, I mean, I have no problem consolidating the both. I know some people do, but I don't see why you can't have both, like why you have to be absolute.

But again, that's my opinion. I love it. I think it's fascinating. You know, sometimes in my class we'll talk about time and we bring up these weird sort of things like, why is October the 10th month, but an octagon has eight sides? You know, why is December the 12th month? But Deca, you know, like there's all these little hints that are left around for us to investigate about this thing called time, you know. Oh, yeah, you can write a really cool book and have like, you would have like a whole podcast series on time, right?

Like there's a lot to investigate there. Yeah, you know, so this is an interesting idea. So, you know, given that you have written over 50 nonfiction books, your body of work is vast. Do you ever feel that your role as a science educator is also to guide young minds and, understanding the ethical and philosophical implications of scientific advancement? Yes. And I think, I know, that was a real fast one. So just to give you a little bit of my background, so I actually was, I went to the Naval Academy. I graduated from the Naval Academy in 1990. So I have like a whole military background kind of too. Like I like to have things that are,

you know, in order and so speak. But yes, I think that is absolutely. one thing that all scientists, engineers, whatever, should ask themselves, not only can we do this, but should we? And I think as a whole, as a community, they do a pretty good job of it, for the most part. There are certain areas, you know, and we're not going to discuss politics, but, you know, there are certain areas where things can be taken a different way. But I actually just wrote a piece about this a little while ago. And for me, it's all about perspective. Now, say, for example, a different country created this amazing invention. And to them, like, no one had ever done it before. So from the scientific community, this is really, really cool and amazing. But say

this other country is like, well, what if they are going to use that as a way? or something against us. You know, it's going to maybe make their crops better than ours or, you know, something like that. So if you're this country, maybe it's not as great as you think. You see the person, it's all about perspective and where you are and maybe how this particular invention is going to be used or something like that. So that's something I think most scientists and engineers are aware of and hopefully are aware of. of. Maybe we as a society also are more aware of stuff like that, too. Yeah, it's interesting. I know that there's some schools of thought that believe, well, we can

just look at sort of the large language models right now. We can kind of see that whole paradigm playing out on some level. People are like, hey, we've got to slow this thing down. And other people are like, this is going to free us. This is us. Can't you see the mirror here? You know, it's so exciting the times we live in, if you're willing just to maybe slow down and pay it, attention to it. What are your thoughts on the idea of these large language models and maybe the way they're changing perspective? So, I mean, if you're talking about AI and books, right? Okay. So this is a subject that's very near and dear to me and all of the other authors. So on the one hand, as a STEM author, as a science geek and whatever, I think AI is stinking cool. It's just

amazing. And, you know, I adore robots. I don't know why. I think robots are the coolest thing ever. I mean, I can't even put my finger on it, but last year I got to go to NASA Johnson Space Center and I was a part of the, they have like a NASA social program where I got to meet the Artemis two astronauts, which was amazing. But I also got to meet the robot that they have created to go to the moon. It's the prototype called Valkyrie. And I can't even tell you which one was more exciting, meeting the astronauts or the robot. I mean, and they let us take pictures. There's a picture of me standing next to this robot, just grinning like this crazy person, like, right? So AI is incredible. On the other hand, I am absolutely not crazy about AI writing books. I am not.

Because part of the reason why how AI is learning to write books is they're taking books that are already published and reading our books and they're having it learn. And I understand it has to learn. But what I am afraid of and what I know I've talked to a lot of teachers is kids are just having AI write their papers. And that is not how this should be used, in my opinion, or in teachers. Because kids don't learn. If once you learn how to write, I mean, have that it, right? But I think that that's one thing that we are at the moment. Society is kind of struggling with where do you bound some of this?

And I am not the one to answer that question. But yeah, these are bigger things that maybe as society we need to figure out how to bound some of this new technology as it comes out, which is not easy to do. It's easier to say than it is to do. You might have to reach back to Isaac Asimov to figure this out. I love that reference. Oh, it's classic.

There is even Marshall McLuhan, and you can see this sort of thing play out where when a new technology comes out, sometimes it makes us our skills atrophy in some ways, right? Like if I think there was a really big argument for writing, how it gave people the illusion of knowing without the experience. And if that was the printing press, then so too can this be AI, right? Okay. Yes. And yeah, I would agree because sometimes these inventions or these things just hit the market. And then you also don't even realize how far out the ripples go.

Right? And then you have to kind of sometimes pull back and do different things. But I mean, as far as AI robots, I think it's cool. But I absolutely think we need to figure out a way to put bounds on. them you know i don't want my a robot who's cleaning my house be like hey it's your turn to do you know to clean the bathroom be reminded of that or whatever right like you want to have on the other hand i think i'm desperately trying to get my husband to get us to buy one of those little robots that mows your lawn i just want to watch it mow the lawn i know i'm i'm like a

super geek right it's super awesome you know it's It's fascinating to think, and technology doesn't care if it makes our life better or it makes our life worse. Like that is the intention of the person that's sort of engineering on the background, or maybe not even the engineer, but I don't know, maybe the societal pressure on some level. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's a lot of fun. No, actually, so the funny thing is, is one of my neighbors across the street has the mower.

Okay. And I went out like early Sunday morning to like let my dog out. And I was like, oh, my gosh. So I took the dog back inside, stood out there for, I kid you not, 10 or 15 minutes videoing this thing mowing the lawn. What are you doing? I'm like, there's a lawn mower robot. He's like, okay.

He knows me very well. Yeah. It's, I think that it's occurrences like that or drone footage that are allowing our children and your readers, the readers of your books to have that different perspective. Like when we grew up, we didn't have aerial drone footage of the Grand Canyon. We didn't have a, you know, a GoPro on a lawnmower seeing like all the bugs getting out of the way and stuff like that.

Like it's pretty tremendous to think about all the avenues and how much it opens to explore when you start seeing in such a level, right? Yes. Oh, absolutely. And, you know, you get to see nature in ways you could never see. seen before. I mean, there's some amazing documentaries that we have watched. One of our favorite is Bertie Gregory.

He is on, I'm trying to remember the Disney Channel. He has a show, but you can see you can see like the elephants move around the Savannah, but he's getting drone footage. So you're also not really kind of entering their world and

disturbing their world, but you can see where they move and all this kind of stuff. And yes, it's great to but it also provides lots of information to the ecologists that live in the area. So they know where the elephants are and where they're moving and all this kind of stuff. So hopefully they can keep poachers out, but also maybe expand the areas that are protected so that these elephants can roam. So there's so many good things that drones can do. There are also not so good things that drones can do.

Yeah. It's that double-edged sword, I guess, of technology. It's interesting that you bring up ecology and the idea of relationships, be them in the environment or with ourselves as a family. Do you think that we are learning more about the human experience by investigating our relationship to technology? Yes. I mean, I think there's a lots of tools these days that we can learn from. So in my podcast, Solve it for Kids, we've actually had a lot of natural. We've had people that rescue bird, do bird rehabilitation and our ecologists. And there's so many tools.

Like if you want to identify a bird now, there's an app where you just take a picture of the bird and the phone tells you what it is. The app tells you what the bird is. And then you can learn about it. So you could learn which of, you could just sit in your backyard and see what birds come in and be like, oh, well, there's a Cardinal family. Oh, there's a Blue Jay. And you can learn about these birds.

The same thing for plants. we actually had one of the scientists on they were doing a study to determine the heights of trees. So we had like we asked everybody around the world to get on this app, which I don't remember the name of it now, but you could like measure your tree and then you send in where you are, right? And it goes into their big database. So there's so many opportunities to be a citizen scientist, which is what they call it these days. And so you can do all this stuff through your phone, which we never had when I was a kid, right? I mean, we wrote letters back then. But yes, there's technology that can be, you can actually participate and be a scientist, even if you're five, right?

I mean, you might have to have your parents help you with the app and whatever, but why not? This is so cool. Yeah. Yeah, I think that that particular example speaks to the bright future of our children in that for a long time, education has been a learning process of hearing the examples of other people. But a lot of times that pales in comparison to the experience of it. And if you're five years old and you are watching the dynamics, a flight from a bluebird on your computer and watching the wings and then watching it right there, you're getting some real. real time, in field experience. We should be excited about the future.

Yeah. Well, and think about what that kid is thinking about too. And the curiosity and the questions and kind of the connections that this crowd is making. I mean, who knows? Maybe he or she will one day grow up to rehabilitate, you know, birds themselves and save them or, you know, whatever. I mean, you have no idea where this is going to lead. know, Mike just have started with the questions from being five. Yeah.

Yeah. So many of the great authors or people that I admire or read biographies about, they often start with a childhood story. Sometimes it's like, well, when I was nine, I had to change school. Or when I was five, my, you know, it, isn't it, it kind of seems interesting to me that a lot of purposeful discoveries come from tragedy on some level. Do you think there's a connection there? I mean, I think so.

And I think it's because, unfortunately, you go through something that, you know, whatever your tragedy is, it changes you. It makes you view life in a different way. Sometimes from that point on, sometimes just slightly, you know, maybe it makes you more thankful for what you have. Maybe it makes you more empathetic towards someone else who's been through that. I mean, sure, I think that tragedy or even significance events, not even tragedy, tragedies, but maybe really big things too in your life can change. I mean, sometimes it'll just make you completely take a right direction, right? Like a right turn or a left turn or something like that.

And it can change what you do and who you become. Yeah. It sort of makes me think about the multiverse approach. Like every decision leads you down a different road of a different life. and it's so science fiction like I yeah very philosophical but yeah I mean we could throw time travel in there and have a really fun discussion right like yeah yeah is that some is that a topic that you have gotten in one of your many books uh not yet because I write mostly nonfiction but then maybe someday I mean people ask me all the time there where do you get all your ideas and

I'm like okay I am a curious curious person right And thank goodness my husband is as well, because every time we travel, even when our kids were small, wherever we would go, we would always do something. Sciencey. We were always going to museums. You know, if there was a science museum, we went to the Science Museum, if went to History Museum, all that kind of stuff. And to this day, we still do that when we travel because I want to know. And so I have notebooks filled or text myself questions. Ooh, I learned this.

I do need to do a book about this. I have so many book ideas. Like I need to live like three lifetimes to write all these books. I'm glad that you do. And you bring up an interesting idea about traveling. It seems to me that traveling is a phenomenal form of education. It gives you a different. It's almost like speaking another language.

Like you get to see the world through another lens and experience it in a different way. As someone who travels around that much, maybe you could give us some insight. I'm seeing terms like digital nomad come up and there's lots of different charter schools and private schools. Do you see this idea of traveling, be it through the internet or actual moving places, as a big, the idea of a global citizen? Do you see this part of childhood curriculum continue to expand in all your travels that you're doing? Is this like a new part of education? I would absolutely love for that to happen. And the thing is, is I think a lot of teachers would as well.

The problem is the curriculums these days are very rigid. But I think this expands kids, again, kids of all ages, knowledge of what's around them and what's out there. And so you're looking at different things. And so something that we might think of here in the United States is being, you know, like we're used to deserts and all of this kind of stuff. and say we go to Iceland or Greenland where they don't really have deserts or they have, you know, they have lots of ice, which can some places can be a cold desert, like Antarctica. You know, there's all of these different things. So even you're learning different climates, you're tasting different foods, you're exposing

yourself to different the clothes that you wear. You know, it's funny. We visited, we've been to London multiple times with our kids. We were lucky enough to be able to afford to take our kids to Europe a couple of of times when they were teenagers and um my daughters were very well aware they they were like teenagers they were very well aware of how you dress right and they were like mom you shouldn't wear tennis shoes when you walk around in london and i was like why not they're very comfortable she goes that makes you look like an american and we have tried to sit in and i was like hmm i mean you know this is something

your 14-year-old child says to you. But on the other hand, I was like, oh, well, so that means she's observing, right, what's going on, what other people are wearing, she wants to fit in, she's looking to see what she has to fit in, you know, all of these kinds of things. So that meant that she's concerned about all of these different things and aware of them. And so I thought that was cool. Now, I still wore the tennis shoes because they were still comfortable. We were going to walk for like eight hours.

Agreed. Yeah, it's, yeah, I want to take you back for a moment into Jennifer Swanson's perfect world of education. I know I have, yeah, I want to hear more about this because I know that some of my, potentially there could be teachers from all around listening and maybe some people from Boys and Girls Club or some after school programs and charter programs. Can you walk us through something maybe you have done or maybe something that you were thinking could be done in a curriculum that could really. help people understand or participate in the world of STEM? Is there something on the edge that you've been thinking about that could be put into a curriculum in the perfect world of Jennifer Swanson Education? Absolutely. Yes, as a matter of fact. So, okay, so I have this podcast with my co-host, Jeff Gagne, called Solit for Kids. And in this podcast, we interview a lot of

teacher or sorry scientists engineers and experts and we talk to them about their jobs so the idea is that that i've had in all of these what 14 years i guess i've been going to all these schools i have so many teachers and parents come up to me and be like i'm like it's a science kid yeah i don't know anything about science like how do i help this kid learn about careers because from the time they're five everyone says what do you want to be when you grow up right and how many of them say I want to be a material science engineer and build and create toilet paper, not ready. Okay, or maybe a chemical engineer or whatever. So we've had this podcast going for a while, and it's more of an interview kind of like this,

but what I would love to do, there's two things. One, I would love to figure out how to get this to be used in the classroom, which I know probably requires me doing, making something very short and small because I know there's not enough time. But the other thing that I would love to do and that I'm working on, we'll see, you know, when I clone myself and have more time, is I'm working on creating YouTube shorts that when I was a, I taught for 14 years for Johns Hopkins University Center for Talented Youth. I was a middle school science teacher for 14 years. And the one thing I did, which they thought I was kind of a little out there, was I had this thing called The Question of the Week. And kids could kind of like, This was before video was big. We started like way back a while ago. And kids would ask questions. And some of them started out with,

why is the sky blue? And then I'd have all of the kids answer. You know, why do you think? And I was like, you can't look it up. You have to just tell me what you think. And so we would have these kind of online discussions. And then at the end, I would give them the answer. And it's, they started from why is the sky blue?

to like a particle physics question. Like seriously, you know, like these kids are really, really smart. But the crazy thing was I had parents whose kids would end to my classes because they'd be like three months. And they would beg me to stay on the email list for these questions because we are talking. This is what we do every Friday night at dinner. We discuss your question of the week.

And almost of, I mean, I've done a lot of things my life to help kids. That one like really hits me. I mean, I have all of these parents and these families discussing science at the dinner table and arguing over, well, why do you think this guy's blue? And, well, you know, all this kind of stuff. To me, I would love to figure out how to turn that into like a short little YouTube kind of thing for free the teachers can use in their classroom. But that's my goal. Now, am I going to have the time to do this and all this kind of stuff?

I'm working on it. So I'll check back with you and let you know how it goes. But that's what I would love to do because for me, there's not a time for a whole big curriculum, right? I'm not the curriculum person. What I want to do, my goal is give them the spark of curiosity, right? Encourage them to be curious and then ask questions and you get the dialogue going. Like I said, those kids before, the kids that talk, it's because they were told, it's okay. ask your question.

That's what I would love to do. And in Jennifer Swanson's school. I love it. I'm glad. Thank you for sharing that. I think it's a cool thing that it comes back to that ripple effect. You know,

you know, that stone into the pond, and the next thing you know, you have families at dinner time, cousins coming over, and aunties and uncles, and wait a man, that's not what it is. You know, it's so beautiful.

Right, but we're not arguing about, you know, other things. We're arguing about science, right? Right. Yeah. Yeah, and there's no wrong answer. I mean, on some level, we're all putting stuff out there. Here's what about this.

What about that? You know, it's different perspectives, yes. And that's actually how science works best. Science works best when it's a team of scientists or engineers all working on a problem, and they come from all different backgrounds, and they're all providing different perspectives. That's when it works best. Yeah, the diversity of opinion, right?

Like, I never thought about it from that angle, or here's this perspective, or yeah, it's so fascinating to go. Do you ever, sometimes when I look at the big institutions, like Ivy League schools or some really lead schools, you see them sort of have their own business model with education. Like students are sometimes working to write papers for pharmaceutical companies or, you know, they're working almost in tandem to create a spinoff business that stays in-house. do you could you in your perfect world ever imagine maybe like a primary school or a middle school child graduating with a residual income like putting something up on gum road or one of these places like that's possible right wouldn't that be beautiful why not that would be amazing i mean i think that would be you know also speaking as a a parent who put three kids through big schools that would be great right to not have school loans but that's

That's a whole other discussion. Yes. I mean, why not? You know, what kids have an opportunity to do these days, and some of them, quite honestly, are. I have read articles about teenagers or whatever who have invented new things and worked with big organizations. And as long as they, you know, why not? Yeah. You know, why not?

As long as they have oversight, of course, and all that kind of stuff. But, yeah, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. And getting real, I mean, again, having put three kids through college and they're now on their own, getting real life experience, working with businesses or whatever while you're in school, that's invaluable. That would be fantastic. Yeah, I'm looking at you, Spring Hill School. I live here in the Bay Area. So there's tons of ideas and investors and intelligent, incredible, wonderful people that want to make a better future.

And I don't see why that can't happen to have a school invest in or have speakers come in and teach to kids. And there could be a residual for everybody on some level. And I think if we can move towards that sort of a little bit of a model, I think we could really push out some of the abstract ideas of negativity that are crunching in on us sometimes. So anyways, thanks for letting me get that out there. Absolutely. That would be fun. So we kind of covered this a little bit, but maybe we can dive just back a little bit. And that's, do you see a potential for technology to either alienate children from nature or conversely bring them closer to a deeper appreciation of the natural world?

I mean, yes and no. Again, that's what we talked about, right? So if you, if the kid is, if the child is using their screen as kind of an interference between from being outside or whatever because they're on their screen. And some of these games and all these kinds of things that they interact with are very real. And they seem like, you know, they look like they could have leaves move and all this stuff. You know, the amount of detail that these games and some of these things have these days. It's incredible. But sometimes you should go outside, take your shoes off, walk through the grass, right?

And just like I said before, there's a lot of apps that you can see. take your phone, you can video. I mean, there's kids who have podcasts and they're like eight. You know, I mean, I met one. I was at one of my, I didn't, uh, astronaut Akonat presentation at Fernbank Science Center in, um, outside Atlanta. And afterwards, this kid comes up and he starts and he's like eight, you know, the second order. And he starts asking me all these really intelligent questions and I'm going okay you know his mom goes he has a podcast his name and I can't remember she gives me his card his card here's his name you know and here's this you know and I was like oh my gosh and I looked him up and he's got YouTube videos and all this kind of stuff

and it's it's about science questions and being outside and all these different things I was like wow I could I could probably learn a lot from this kid and he's like Eight. It was incredible. So, yes, it can, again, it's all about perspective and how it's used. So you can use it to help you. You can use it to create a barrier. It's up to you. Yeah. It's really well said. I'm so thankful to hear that I really do believe that the kids have so much opportunity at their features if they're lucky enough to have an environment that allows for that. It makes me think, too, when you bring up an individual, a young child that is beginning to create online, in some ways, I see that as being the resume of the future. Like, what have you created? Can you show me an audience?

Can you show me something that you have been able to translate from vision into reality? It kind of seems like that is going to be the resume of the future. What do you think about that? I mean, on the one hand, I think it's great. On the other hand, I'm a little sad. Why? Well, because I don't want people. It's hard for, I'm trying to figure out how to say this right.

So I learned so much keeping my own journals, writing, doing handwriting, drawing my own things. There's so much your brain learns from the brain, hand writing kind of connection. And to lose that would, I think, not be great for the person and society as a whole, right? There's a lot of amazing connections that happen in your brain and learning that happens by writing. On the other hand, I understand the creating and online, and I know that that is another way to express your creativity. So my hope is that we keep it all. Yeah. Because there are some people that are amazing at being communicators online.

but even me like I like presenting in person and when the whole pandemic happened and basically our publishers were like, okay, you need to now start making videos. And we were all like, wait, what? You know, I like the interaction. I love to present to three kids, 300 kids, whatever, I've presented 1,500 kids. I like to see their response. I like to interact with them. And so I like to be out and about as I'm creating. That's me creating kind of thing, too.

That's what helps me to go back and sit in my little room and write. Now, having said that, no, I don't write my books longhand. I compose them. I have friends who write their entire novels longhand, which... Oh, my gosh. More power to them, I do like my keyboard. you know but i think if we keep all of those things that kind of makes us more of a well-rounded society yeah i'm glad you brought that up the there's something magical that happened it's almost like your

your body is giving your brain permission to translate it into reality when you're doing that right like there's something and you hope retain it better and it's it's i don't i've read a few things about it it's fascinating it's a whole aspect of it and maybe that's why that's what you're why the world is changing is maybe less people are doing that and they're creating online. Like that would create a whole new world of perspective. You would see things different. Well, and I know that a lot of kids are not being taught to do cursive anymore. Yes.

Which honestly is heartbreaking to me. I understand, you know, I understand, again, the rigors of the curriculum, but it's heartbreaking to me. And it's kind of interesting because when I have book signings and I sign my books, I sign them in cursive. And I've had so many kids go, what does this say? And that just makes me go, oh, you know, but I mean, they're doing different things. But I hope we never lose the ability to actually write with a pencil and paper, you know, and draw like that. I hope that doesn't go away.

It brings up an, I agree 100%. I think there's something so beautiful. It happened with calligraphy, right? Like people used to be able to write wonderful calligraphy and these works of art. And now it's just sort of, it's just the symbolic thing that we do. It looks pretty, but we're not sure what it is. You know, on some level, it makes me wonder, like, everybody knows what it's like to hear the sound of getting a voicemail. Most people know what it sounds like to hear your microwave go off.

On some level, are we beginning to learn a language of tones that's taught to us by technology? Oh, wow. No, that's, I mean, probably yes. I mean, right? Yeah. You know, I'm of the age. Do you remember when the whole AOL thing, you know, where you had the modus? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Right. And even the movie you've got ma'am. Yes. Right. I remember, I remember when that all started. And now it's, I mean, it's kind of funny because most, I think a lot of, maybe not most,

but a lot of kids don't even have like a home phone in their house. Like we still have a home phone and we still, because I'm not giving up my phone. Like I'm not. I'm one of those people that because I live in Florida and we have hurricanes and I'm like, when this doesn't work, the cell phone doesn't work because the towers are down. I have my phone and I'll be able to call people, right? But when it rings sometimes my kids, you know, they just like ignore it. And I'm like, did you not hear the phone ringing?

and they're like, my cell phone didn't ring. I'm like, right? Like, be aware. But yes, I do think we are getting trained to different sounds. I never thought about that, but yeah. Yeah, it's like a tonal language. Like, you know, some of the different languages around the world

have different tones. And I don't know, it's just so curious to me to explore that sort of, oh, I see what's had. It's kind of similar. Oh, maybe that's a new book, man. It's all about the sounds you hear. Oh, see? I'll have to break that one down when I go.

Jennifer, we have talked for about an hour, but it feels like we have talked for about three minutes. And I, this is so much fun. I'm really thankful. I hope you can come back and maybe we can do a panel or something like that or we can talk more often. I really enjoyed this. But before I let you go today,

would you be so kind as to tell people what you have coming up, where they can find you and what you're excited about? Sure, that would be great. So you can find me at Jennifer Swanson Books.com. You can also find me at solvafor kids.com. I wear like multiple hats. Let's see. Some of the cool things I, coming up, I have a book coming out in November this year.

This is my first nonfiction picture book biography, probably only one. But this is called Up Periscope. It is how engineer Ray Montague revolutionized shipbuilding. And this book is about the fabulous Ray Montague, who was actually the hidden figure of the Navy. And you can probably figure why I wrote this. She was the first person to come up with a computer program to build and design ships, to design ships, which used to take them like two years or more by hand. So that book comes out this year, and it's with Little Brown Book for Young Readers,

and it's illustrated beautifully by Veronica Miller-Jamesson. It's just fabulously gorgeous. Oh, my gosh. I have three books coming out next year, including one I'm really excited about, which is we're talking about travel. This is with Atlas Obscura. Have you heard of the Atlas Obscura Company? They are a company that kind of does travel for adults, but they actually did a kid's book

a few years back, and they're doing the second one, which I am co-authoring with. the awesome Dylan Thurus who is part of the Atlas Obscura. And I believe, I'm hopefully going to get this name right. It's Atlas Obscurius Explor's Guide to Inventing the World. Wow. You would love this book, George. It's all about inventions and the history of inventions and how they all interconnects. And that comes out next August.

It is fabulous. It is a fabulous book. I cannot wait for that. And I actually do school visits. So if anybody is interested, you can find the information on my website. I do virtual ones. I do in-person ones. And let's see, I'm traveling all, kind of all over the place, researching a couple of other books. Hint, there will be a book in two years about aliens and how to talk to them. It'll have astrobiology for kids in it, which is going to be your mind.

is blowing right your mind is yes yes we'll definitely come back and talk about that book when it comes out i'm so excited about that book it's going to be amazing um so yeah i have my hat i have my fingers on a lot of different pies and um but it's honestly it's all the kids again of all ages i have adults that read my books my kids books right i mean yeah i mean they do and they email me and they're like oh my gosh these are so awesome My book Brain Games by National Geographic Kids. It's based on the TV show. They asked me to turn the TV show into a book.

I have met so many neurologists, doctors, brain doctors, who give this to their patients, their adult patients so they can learn about how their brain works and do these activities. I mean, I was like, really? That book is for eight to 12-year-olds. They're like, no, they love it. So yeah, I have a lot of things going.

So check all those out. And then you can, you know, check out my YouTube channel when I get that up and going. And maybe I'll get to do the question of the week thing. We'll see. There's, you have so much. You're so interesting to talk about. It's inspirational and inspiring. And it's really fun.

I'm really glad you are taking the time to travel and talk to people. For my friends in a midpack, I'm looking at you guys too. Maybe you should be flying around to Hawaii, Spring Hill. Hey, she's right here. close, you know. Actually, this is, I haven't been, so our trips to Hawaii, we've been there three times, and I've presented at the, um, the Pearl Harbor Aviation Museum a couple of times, which is amazing.

So, yeah, so, I mean, I go out to Hawaii, like my husband and I go out there every, every year or two. So if I'm out there, let me know. And I'd be happy to pop in and do a school visit. Um, not going to make you pay for the whole travel, right? But then I get here right off the trip. Yes. Yeah, well, I know I got, my daughter used to go to a really phenomenal school called Midpack out there. It's an art school and they do so much with STEM and there's an amazing facility out there.

So any of my own friends or teachers or my daughter's family or friends are listening over there, check her out. She's got some really cool stuff. She would be a great addition to a speaker. So that's fascinating. Yeah, I'm stoked for you. I hope that you get to travel more and inspire more people. and um yeah me too uh ladies and gentlemen i hope everybody within the sound of my voice as as excited as i am about today i got to learn a lot and we just scratched the surface i hope you please go down to the show notes and check out one of the over 50 books that jennifer has written listen to some of her lectures definitely check out her podcast if you're an educator reach out to her she's really kind to talk to and i've got a lot of cool ideas and she's always willing to talk to people so that's all we got for today ladies and gentlemen jennifer hang on briefly afterwards but to everybody else i I hope everyone has a beautiful day and you never quit being curious.

That's all we got. Aloha. Without Gigamon, there are cyber threats. His security tools simply cannot see, which means he could end up with his hair on fire. Deep observability from Gigamon makes it possible to expose previously hidden threats, even in encrypted traffic. Gigamon, deep observability. Being a superpower saver is as easy as bail.

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Hello, everybody. This is Brian Green. Faith Saley, everybody. Thank you very much. And this is Brian Greene's book in large print, because time has ravaged my eyesight. And I first interviewed you, Brian, a few months after this book came out in May of 2020,

which everyone can imagine. was a very specific time. You were upstate, I think. I was in an apartment on the Upper West Side. It was on Zoom. The notion of time during those early days, when people said lockdown. It was a very specific experience

to talk about time then. Now, to return to this, it's the same book. It was interesting to see what I dog-eared, to see what moved me, in fact, to tears again. to tears again. I took a whole bunch of new notes. And I love that we're having this discussion at the New York Historical Society because, I mean, not only is this book about the entire history of the universe and about when history will cease to exist, but also because history is arguably both a science and an art. And you characteristically make room, in this book,

especially for mathematics and music, for Schrodinger and Shakespeare. And, I mean, it's just a joy to turn to the index of this book because you'll find there's Higgs particle, there's Mick Jagger, there's Big Bang, Big Bounce, Big Crunch, Big Rip. There's Over the Rainbow, Poe, Sylvia Plath, and you spend a moment on cheesecake, which I think, which I think, and you make, vegan cheesecake,

and you make it germane. So my goal. is to get to the cheesecake tonight. So history is about stories. And in this book, your story kind of begins with what you call the romance of mathematics. What do you mean by that? Or what did you mean by that? Well, essentially, I grew up, you know, four blocks from here, you know, 81st Street. And at an early age, my dad, who was a composer, singer, musician, he didn't go to college. He had what he called an S-P-HD,

Seward Park High School dropout. So good. But he loved ideas. And so he taught me the basics of arithmetic at a very young age. And then would set me these problems, like multiply this 30-digit number by this 30-digit number,

and I would spend the weekends four blocks from here with large pieces of construction paper just multiplying these numbers out. And it just felt to me so compelling to do something that nobody had done before. Now, in those cases, it's because it wasn't interesting. You weren't trying to just get your dad's approbation. You loved it.

Yeah, totally. No, I just got pulled into this world of numbers. And it was kind of a romance of this mathematical language, which I feel strongly is one that we invent, that we don't discover, but this wondrous thing that we compose that allows us to go off into strange places of prime numbers and the remon zeta function.

We all make these ideas up, but this world that we create is so rich and compelling. Raise your hand if you're waiting for him to say remonstata function. But in the book, you say that part of the romance, and this is relevant to this notion of thinking about our time, and how finite it is, is that mathematics is a journey toward insights so fundamental they will never change. Yeah.

Mathematics is permanent? The truths are. And to me that is a remarkable quality. It was really first emphasized to me, again when I was quite young, I, you know, I went to IS44, which is like three blocks from here, and I exhausted the math curriculum relatively quickly. So one of the teachers there gave me a letter. I didn't know what it said at the time. He said, take this, go up to Columbia and find somebody to teach you.

So together with my older sister, I was like a little tiny, you know, just like this. So we'd like walk in, we started knocking on doors, randomly handing this letter, and most would read it and hand it back. But in the math apartment, knocked on one door and gave it to a fellow, and he read it and he said, sure, I'll teach you for free. We didn't have any money or anything. And so I would go three times a week, and he would take me on these mathematical journeys. And he was the one who really when I started to get interested in physics, and I was asking him, like, why do you do math? Why is it your thing?

And he said, I do math because once you prove a theorem, it stands forever. And it finally hit me. Everything else is impermanent. But these deep truths that come from this language of mathematics, they do stand beyond the test of time. And so there is something deeply compelling to latch on to those qualities.