TrueLife - Jonaed Iqbal - Learning, Living, & Thriving, in the Creator Economy

Episode Date: September 17, 2023

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/Giving is my fuel.felt like I was locked in a cage, producing excel reports for executives that looked at them for just a few seconds at most. I wasn't impacting anyone. My future was bound to be filled with useless meetings as the core of my personality, my passion for helping people, wasted away.Did you know that 95% of job postings are inaccurate and misleading? The job search and interview process is broken. Many good candidates pass over listings because they don't feel they're good enough and, instead, unfit candidates apply. There is also a stigma associated with people without college degrees, who're most often left behind as a result. You wouldn't judge your mechanic by his/her ability to pass a math test, would you?For job seekers who are seeking employment or looking to transition, NoDegree provides customized career strategy assistance.For businesses who need assistance with their job postings and interview process,NoDegree's role allows you to gain a competitive advantage by having "the right" employee. While you focus on your company culture and bottom line, the candidate you need for your business is being filtered and found.Most recruiters just try to push candidates through so they can get their fee. NoDegree is different. Through the established relationship with the candidate, knowledge of their strengths and weaknesses, NoDegree only places them in environments that they will excel in.NoDegree works with companies that see past the college degree. Companies like Google, VaynerMedia, IBM and others are on the forefront of this new trend.I am a fierce advocate for extraordinary individuals who have chosen to bypass the traditional college route and go straight into impacting the world.I remember all the people that were kind to me and my mission is to make a difference in companies and in lives. Empathy makes the world a better place and I'm proud to be a contributor. My dream of giving for a living has come true in so many ways.Let's connect. I have not hit the 30Kconnection limit. Send me a message if you feel we can work together. I will provide the highest level of service because that's what you deserve.http://linkedin.com/in/jonaedhttps://www.nodegree.com/NoDegreeDotCom One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark, fumbling, fear. Hears through ruins maze, lights my war cry, born from the blaze.

The poem is Angels with Rifles. The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Kodak Serafini. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Ladies and gentlemen, I hope it's a beautiful Sunday. I hope you're waking up and the birds are singing, the sun is shining. I hope you've decided that you're going to take the next step and becoming the most authentic version of yourself. I got an incredible guest today, an incredible show. Joe Nye, the one and only incredible founder, leader,

a gentleman that's always giving. If you go and check out his content, you will see that not only is he always learning, but he's always doing things for other people. He's what I like to call the LinkedIn legend. He's the founder of the No-degree podcast, and this content is unreal. It's been incredibly inspiring for me and so many other people. Jani, how's it going, my friend? What a great.

Wait to start my afternoon. Things are going good. Man, I'm so stoked you're here. I love what you're doing. And while you probably really need no introduction, you've done so much awesome stuff out there, I would love it. If you could just kind of give a little bit of a background

on what the no degree podcast is, who you are and how you got started. Yeah. So I found something called no degree.com. Because what happens is if you tell someone that you don't go to college, they're like, oh, what are you going to do? Are you just going to work dead-end jobs the rest of your life? Like you won't be successful. You're not going to make it and all that.

And then the thing is, there are so many successful people without college degrees. The thing is, their path is typically not traditional or formulaic. In the last few years, things have really changed because there are a lot more resources. They're more linear paths. Like, hey, if you want to be a data engineer, here's a boot camp you can go to, or here's a YouTube channel you can learn from. But the thing is, it gets overwhelming, right?

Like so many kids, even kids who go to college have no idea of what they want to do. They're just like, I want to be a CEO. I want to work in business. And they have no, that's just such a generic statement. So I wanted to create a platform where I taught people about the careers. Here are the different careers.

Here's the issues you're going to face. Here's how you overcome them. Here's how you write a resume. Here are the companies that are hiring. And then I was like, why don't I launch a podcast where I interview successful people without a degree? And I interviewed you, so that was amazing. And have them share their stories so that people could follow in your path. Like, oh, wow.

I didn't know that you could make over 100K at UPS. I didn't know that you could transition to a different industry. I didn't know that this certification can get me a raise or break me into this field. I really just want to generate awareness and help people get to these careers by sharing accurate info. I'm not like, hey, drop out of college and go become a millionaire.

It's possible, but I'll say, hey, here are the steps, here are the challenges you're going to face. Here's what you need to do. Here's the work that you need to put in so that you can maximize the chances of that happen. Yeah, it's amazing to me that so many, there's so much societal pressure, it seems, on kids and even on parents to get your kids like this best possible education.

However, it does seem, especially in the last maybe 15 years, this idea of a traditional education no longer fits with the workforce that is emerging today. There's so much technology out there, so much experience, right? Yeah, so here's the thing. historically, colleges were like the centralized resource for information. And it made sense, like the internet wasn't as accessible. It wasn't as developed. And as you saw like the rise of internet speeds and accessibility of technology, you had experts sharing info.

You had people sharing YouTube channels. So that it was more front and centered. Because before, think about it, 10, 15 years ago, you wanted to create a course, okay, you gotta go upload the videos, you got to go create something. There wasn't an easy to make, say, made solution. Now you can create a course from your phone. You can just pop up your phone, boom, upload, you're done. So it really changed things that as the internet happened, more and more information got out there,

podcasts are a great source of information, and the companies started realizing like, okay, we could, we should look at other types of talent. And then the other thing is, colleges are in the big, business of education. A lot of people will be like, oh, this person is educated, they want to college. And I tell people,

education is a state of mind. It's a constant thing you do. Someone who reads books, multiple books a week, for years, is educated. I think it was something like 40 to 60% of college students never read a book

after they graduate. So how are they educated? And I'm not saying books are the only form of education, but that's way too high of a percentage to not be reading. And so I just don't like the premise that's just because someone doesn't have a degree that they're not educated, that they're not impacting society. The other thing is that every job has value in society because the doctor, right?

Doctors are looked at, oh my God, they're so amazing. And, you know, some of them are. But they're just like people. Then you have the doctor needs the nurse, who needs like the assistant, who needs like the janitor, who needs the ambulance driver. and the ambulance driver needs like a mechanic. Right? So people look at doctors like they're so amazing. They help people.

And it's like the ambulance driver help people. And they're first on the scene too. So why don't they get the credit? Just because someone has a longer process? At the end of the day, like why would you devalue anyone in the process? Yeah, it's a great point. I remember hearing a story from, I remember hearing a story a while back where a gentleman was telling me about some, a book he'd read about NASA and how when we had the space race and the program,

one of the main engineers went in into the NASA headquarters in the early 60s. And they saw the janitor and they're like at one in the morning. And they're like, what are you doing here, sir? And he's like, I'm putting a man on the moon. You know, and it just speaks to this idea of how important everybody is and how much when people are willing to take what they're doing seriously, regardless of what it is, the world seems to work in a way that is more harmonious, this idea that we're all important and that everybody has an education. And sometimes we value one education over another. And

that may, that may not be a great path. We start to find our way in this world of specialization and hierarchy when we start putting this emphasis on these certain degrees and things like that. It seems like it's changing, though, in so many ways. And I'm thankful for that. What do you see? Do you see this as a pattern that's continuing to emerge? Will we continue to go this way with the way in which the Internet is increasing and definitions are changing and the world is changing? Yeah, of course, because colleges are slow to adapt and they're freaking expensive. They're in the business of education. They have no problem charging you an arm and a leg.

And the thing is, the professors aren't getting rich. It would be one thing if the professors were making a lot of money because of teaching. They're not, right? They often use it as a position of authority and influence to get other work. All right. And that's kind of sad in that, think about this, an Econ 101 class at like, you know, at a private college,

it used to be like 5,000 when I went. Now it must be like 6,000, right? So $6,000 for Econ 101 class. That's not like super specialized and all that. You can pick up a textbook, you can watch a YouTube channel and learn the basics. $5,000. You get some of the,

these classes that have 30 kids. 5,000, that's 150K. You have some of these lectures that have 300 kids. That's 1.5 million. Econ 101 class. And sometimes the professors just bring the slides that they get and they just read off the slides. So think

about it. Where's that money going? Right? A lot of it's going to these administrators and all that stuff. And it's just absolutely wild that people will pay this and then parents will save up and then think that this is the only way. And it's just, and look, there's some schools that are, look, if someone's going on a scholarship, they're a good student and they're paying reduced rates, I tell them to go.

But if you're paying full price, like for most schools, you're a sucker. You're subsidizing the person that's way smarter than you and it's a way better student than you. And you got tricked and there are so many other options. Yeah, it's true. I mean, when you look at the statistics of people coming at a school, if the average person is coming out with no less than 35,000, Probably way more than that, but it's that's a crazy statistic to think of, right? Yeah. So 35,000 is, I think, is the average, right?

It increases. I think like a few years ago is 30,000 and now you have another 5,000. So it's like, it went up again, like another 18%, which is kind of wild, right? Like it went up like one six and it's going to keep going up. And it's not like college is becoming more valuable over time. It's becoming less valuable because the information is easier to parse and there's more competition and I think like people have to really take the decision to go to college seriously because there are many factors what I tell people look I'm not anti-college

I'm just saying that there are you have to figure out what's right for you some people college is right decision some people it's not sometimes it's not the right decision at 18 years old like when I went to college a lot of these kids were cheating they're partying all that the 28-year-old student the 32-year-old student they were there They're serious like, hey, my work's paying for this. I want to move ahead. I'm taking this seriously. So it's a very complex thing in that people have to really find out what's right for them.

And then the other thing is companies have to realize that other forms of education should count. For example, if you're in finance, if you don't have a college degree, very hard to break in. You could be the world's best economist. You could be the world's best trader. You don't have a degree. Oh, no, we don't hire. We only hired for Harvard, Columbia, NYU, UPenn. And it's just like, why?

Why would you really discount someone? And then I'm going to go even more radical. Yeah. I think. And so, you know, people always say, oh, what about a doctor? And I'll say, look, there should be a path for a doctor to become a doctor without a college degree because there should be an apprenticeship program. So, for example, medical school, right? after the medical school, you have to take some boards.

And if you pass the board, it depends. You'll go to your specialty. If someone can score phenomenal on the boards without going to medical school, I do think they should be accepted into a residency program because the residency is where you really learn the stuff. And again, this is not, I still think medical school will be the more common route, but there should be another way that someone who's like a savant or who's a genius or all that. Same thing, I think the easier, a much less radical case is someone should be, in some states,

you're allowed to become a lawyer without a degree. So if you can pass the bar without going to law school, I think you're way smarter than the kids you went to law school because you really have to like really learn without guidance and really figure out. You have to be real scrappy. And then you get the right experience and all that. So I'm always about there should be exceptions, even if they're not common, but there are some people who are just, imagine you're 42 years old.

And now it's like, oh, I got to take out this many loans. I have kids. I got to go to law school part time for like eight years to become a lawyer. And then you're 50 and now you could, whereas like, hey, maybe I could just bust my butt for a year, self-study nights and weekends. And if you're smart enough. So that's kind of where I'm thinking that there should always be a way. You know, and obviously they have to get the proper safety and ethical certifications and all

that to get in, but I do think that it should be more accessible to people who are very talented and hardworking and passionate. I couldn't agree more. On some level, I think there's a, there is a component of both conditioning and, I'll go with conditioning. It seems to me that on some level, education is both conditioning and indoctrination. And a company looks at someone who can sit in a classroom. for 22 years as someone who can take directions.

But that is not necessarily the person that's going to get stuff done in your business. Like you don't want someone that doesn't think critically. You don't want someone who's been conditioned to think and do exactly what they're told and understand the concept of exact repeatability. Like that person may be really good at solving tasks for you when you tell them exactly what to do.

But what about when they come up against a problem? What about when they come up against innovation? What about when they come up against solving a critical, component that the company needs to move forward, that person might not be that good at that. And it seems like school is conditioning and indoctrinating rather than someone who has that lived experience that you're talking about. There's a difference, right? Yeah, there is a difference.

And again, it's really going to depend on your teachers, right? Because I've had some great teachers who are like, hey, you know, do X, Y, Z. The other thing is, just because someone has gone to school doesn't mean they can listen, right? Like, I'm going to tell you, if you've, I've seen every group project, there's one or, there's one or two people who refuse to do work. And the professor's like, well, figure it out. And it's like, you can't get someone to work who doesn't want to work. They don't get paid. They don't get that.

And they're using game theory in the sense of other people care about their grades and don't want to fail. So I'm going to leverage that. And so these professors put these group projects, there's always someone. And that person ends up passing. The people who end up cheating pass. So there are so many things to realize that companies use this as a lazy filter because their processes aren't good enough to evaluate good talent. They're just saying, I'm going to let Harvard do their filter.

And it's a lazy filter that excludes very talented people who bloomed in different ways. And it shows whole minded this. It's like, hey, I only hire. It's a diversity issue. Because, you know, when I interviewed you on my podcast, you gave one of the best, most phenomenal solutions. And I'm pretty sure those people had degrees, and they couldn't have an answer. And what happened? Their ego came in.

They're playing people who go to school who have egos, right? Who are jerks, who are all that. So you really have to expand your mind to make sure that someone like you is actually looked at. Yeah. Thank you for that. it does seem to be that on some level, we, you know, we spoke earlier in the podcast about someone that goes to school and has paid all this money on some level. Not only are they given an education, but they're also given like a false sense of confidence.

Because you believe if you go somewhere, like, well, I'm way smarter than this person. I'm way better than that person. And that gets you in trouble. Like I've done it in my life where I've discounted someone because of their station. And I was humiliated at times. And I think that's something that we should be very very. careful when we start looking at education because people do tend to come out like oh maca maca like well i've done this so i should have that you know it's a dangerous slippery slope let me tell you

true education is knowing you don't know everything that's true education true education is knowing that you can learn from the eight-year-old boy who's like interested in insects it's making sure you have different perspectives and here's the other thing you'll see some people who are very qualified and then they'll have like a stupid opinion on another topic. Like someone will kind of tell you like they're like maybe they're a doctor. Just because they're a doctor doesn't mean they're the right person to talk about the car industry or X, Y, Z. And not saying that they're the wrong person, but just because someone's educated in one area, they sometimes they have knowledge gaps.

And oftentimes they do have knowledge gaps because they dedicated so much of their time to one area that they have knowledge gaps in another area. Everybody's going to have knowledge gap. We cannot know everything. And that's why I'm always a fan of, look, you know what? If I wanted to learn some advanced things, I'm going to look for a specialist in that. I'm not necessarily going to look for their perspective on other things, unless I know that they have actually dedicated a good amount of time to get unique perspective. But I've seen people just have wild opinions on things.

And you're like, well, okay, that's a little weird. I'm definitely not going to ask you for your opinion on that. Yeah, it's such a great word. But when you go to get an expert opinion, you should realize that you're getting an opinion. And you yourself should be doing your own research to match up what you have learned against this expert opinion. Because there's probably a lot of good stuff in there. But if you just see it as not gospel, but okay, this is this person's lived experience in their expert opinion. Let me take that with what I know and then make the decision.

But too often we take what those people say as gospel. Too often we take, well, this person is this. We should do what they say, especially when it comes to. you know, end of life situations or situations where we're very vulnerable, be it your car's broken down or your arm is broken down. When you go to one of these professionals, you're like, well, this guy says this, I should do that. And that's, you know, $100,000. You know, it's, it's interesting how decisions are emotional decisions are almost made for us by experts. It's kind of dangerous. No, it is dangerous. That's why I always say, you know, try to get like a few opinions.

Yeah. You know, and then it's like, okay, you know what? I got several opinions. They always say like because a doctor can be wrong but you know it's much harder to find three or four doctors being wrong and the same exact thing especially when they specialize so that at that point if you're then you're going to be like I'm going to do my research because I saw something on Facebook that says like if I look at the sun my arm will heal then you know you kind of have to really make sure you're you you know do your research but make sure that you are do you have the ability to do research in that area yeah it's a great point you when I go when I check out no degree.com

when I go when I check out the no degree podcast or I listen to some of the shorts that you first off your content is so awesome man you have you do such a rad like back and forth with people and you get out these rad subjects that are just they're fun to listen to but not only are they fun to listen to they're jam packed with real advice about what you can do I recently watched the one with you and another gentleman where you guys are having this back and forth like I put out two cover letters. And this guy's like, I do a new resume for everyone.

It was like such this cool back and forth, totally inspiring. And I was wondering maybe if we could pivot and you could talk about what is it that some people, do you see any patterns when people come to you and, hey, I'm really talented at this. I've been doing this kind of design or I've been in this. How can I get in an app or how can I get this? Maybe you could talk to what are some of the things that you help people do that come to you and how do you get them placed or in front of interviews of places that might not normally hire them?

Okay, so the funny thing is if people with and without degrees face the same issue, the fact is you need to sell yourself. Most of the time people will come with a resume and it'll just show what they did. Hey, deliver packages. It's like, duh, you work at UPS. Of course you deliver packages. Like, and or they'll be like, hey, you know, they work in finance, analyze report, have meetings. It's like, duh, like, that's your job. Stop describing your job.

You have to describe your impact. So now you have to go, hey, deliver. How many packages would you deliver on a daily basis? Like 247. Yeah. So we'd say deliver 240 plus packages daily. Yeah. To what?

How many residents? 200 plus? Probably closer to 170. To 170 plus business. and residential customers in the Hawaii region. And then you could say achieving 99% on time rate with the 98% package. I don't know, whatever your metrics are like.

And that's what we need to know because I don't want to hire someone who do it. Oh, he delivers that many packages with an X amount. You know, then we go into how you develop the process to do X-Y-Z, and you're decreasing delivery times by 20%. That's what you need to know. Like develop operational plan and collaborated with logistics on delivery enhancement initiative, decreasing average delivery time by 20%.

That's what they need to know. And so then what happens is you go to an interview, you're not just like, hey, here's what I do. You're like, hey, you know what? I worked with this guy and I realized that trucks were taking extra thing or they were wasting fuel going down these other routes. We map new routes that are more fuel efficient. Now we got the delivery times faster and we're saving this amount of money.

And now you're more confident, they see your value, and the whole process becomes easier because the big thing is you have to know how to value yourself and the things you've done. Because people hire you based on the things you've done because the things you've done helps show the things you can do in the future. And then I tell them like, you know, make sure you have like a very clean resume. You know, these online systems don't handle fancy formatting well. People want to make these graphic projects and all that.

And it's like, look, they're getting so many applications. Just make it easy. Just go straightforward, straight to the point so that they can absorb the most amount of info. And then I go into like, hey, here's how you network. Here's how you apply. Here's how you optimize your LinkedIn. Here's what you need to do. So I really, like when I'm working with someone, I spend about four to six hours with them.

And I write their resume line by line. I help them uncover their value. I help them come with a strategy. And that's really what it comes down to. And I've done resumes for entry-level people who are just like cashiers. And I've done resumes for people at the CEO-C-TO level. Because you'd be surprised at people at all levels. The thing is, there's always someone smarter than you.

And when you're at a higher level, you're just comparing yourself to that guy, that guy. And then you forget, you lose perspective. You're like, oh, I don't have to be that guy. I bring a lot to the table. And you know what? I am actually that guy. Or I am that girl. So that's kind of where I come in.

I really help people uncover their value and I help them navigate that path. I love it. In some ways, it seems to me that you're giving them their identity back. You know, when we put ourselves on that piece of paper, we lose like the human dimension of them. You know, it's. So, and it's hard. Think about it. Like, when I did my resume, I had my friend help me because it's hard to think about what you do and write it at the same time.

So as they're thinking, I'm writing and I'm bringing it out. So I'm like working together with them on their resume. And oftentimes it's just different. It's a different frame. And the thing is people are not realizing that this person doesn't know you. And they don't realize what that person is going through in that they're getting so many resumes. 30 to 80 percent of them are not even qualified for the role. And then it's like, how do I filter out?

Then they rely on these soft, these systems to make it easier for them. but it's hard because they have two people who are similar. How do they choose? So now it's like you have to make sure that if they come across, they're like, yes, I have to talk to this person. And then when you talk, then you interview. And then now it's a lot easier. Yeah, getting to that point where you sit down in front of somebody,

you know, sometimes that piece of paper doesn't translate into how personal you are, why you're the right person for the job. It's getting through that first hoop sometimes that can get you the job, right? Yeah, that first hoop. from there, I find that interviewing is a lot easier, but interviewing has its own challenges. Sure. In that it's a different thing. You have to be, you know, you want to be personable, but you also have to know it's a professional

setting. It can be nerve-wrecking even for the smartest people. So I kind of guide them on how to have a more fun and passionate process so that the interviewer is like, wow, okay, I really got to hire. I really got it to hire George. And like, if I were working with you, I would talk about that, that story. And, you know, and that we'd find a way to weave that into every interview. No, it doesn't matter what question they ask.

What's the time you had conflict? Boom. What's your philosophy? Boom. That story. So a lot of people forget that there are ways to use like 10 to 15 stories to answer like 90% of interview questions. Because it's all about people will, you know, when I work with someone, they're like, what's your philosophy?

And I'm like, why don't you use that story about how you love learning? That applies. Like, you know, what set you apart? Hey, I love learning. So that's the thing that a lot of people think that they have to have unique, crazy answers for these hundred questions. It's like, nah, trust me. You have to know how to wield and mold your story so many questions.

Yeah. I know for me, and it seems like from other people, sometimes we're afraid of these things that were vulnerable. Like, oh, I can't, you know, you're going to tell this person that you're going to tell this person. Like, yeah, that's like the best story possible. Like, you should definitely do that. But when you're not worried. about the consequences or the vulnerability.

Like that's when that true confidence kind of shines. Like, yeah, I did this for this reason. Let me share it with you. You know, that seems like a good spot to be. Yeah, and it's about finding the balance. Like, I think that is your story. So for you to run away from it, it just wouldn't make sense. I think that is your defining moment.

That is your leadership moment. That shows who you are as a person. And we want to show that. And we want to show that from a, hey, you know, here's why I did it. Here's what I learned. Here's maybe how I would do it differently now that looking back. You know, here's what I think I could have done to rectify the situation so that maybe

I wouldn't have had to walk away. But, you know, it was a good learning lesson and what happened happened. And now I'm looking forward. And, you know, here's what I'm looking to do. You think sometimes we try to fit into a mold, like we become inauthentic in order to appear authentic? You know what I mean? Like you go to a, you go somewhere and you try to be somebody else.

People can kind of feel that, right? People see through it, you know? Like, I think my last audio event on LinkedIn, I did authentic personal branding. And you know the thing is, man? Like, so many people preach personal branding, but it's this superficial, I'm amazing kind of thing. It's not an authentic personal brand. It's just like, hey, here's me amazing, and here's why you should buy from me. And it's not authentic.

And I see all the time, like people in finance, they have to look a certain way, they have to dress a certain way. People in this industry have to, and it's like, look, at the end of the day, you just got to have conversations with people. You just got to put yourself out there and be comfortable, you know, be comfortable in your skin, be comfortable in what you do in that. It doesn't matter if you're in room with millionaires and billionaires, people in different industries, you are who you say you are. You know, it's, I don't necessarily, I'm not really a suit and tie guy.

No, I do wear it from time to time, but that's kind of not my style, but I'll go into a room and I'll go talk and I'll talk to people as if they're people. And I know, look, I'm working on cool things. I'm impacting people's lives. I'm making a difference. So that carries me. And people like, wow, how can I help? What can I do? This is so amazing.

But it's because I'm comfortable when I do and I know what I'm doing is amazing. So if you don't think what you're doing is amazing or you don't think you're amazing, why would someone else? right yeah that is a that is a tough one especially for people who maybe looking for a job because when you're looking for a job you either don't have one you're not happy with where you are or you're you can't it seems that sometimes you're you feel like you're lacking and when you come from that place of scarcity it's like I remember when I was before I found my lovely wife the woman of my dreams I was out there trying to find like the right girl but sometimes people can smell that desperation on you it's a horrible

perfume, right? Like you're like, whoa, this person likes me too much, man. I got to get away from them. The same thing with interviews. If you don't believe in yourself, like you said, why would anybody else believe in you? But there's a fine line. You don't want to be some arrogant son of a gun out there that's like, I'm the best person ever, man. You should hire me. It's kind of a weird thing. You know what? It's that fine line and balance in that you have to know what you have to know what you bring to the table, but you also have to realize other people have value. And you also have to realize that it's a process of improvement and that you have to be humble enough that I can learn from other. And then the other thing is you have to be genuinely curious in other people.

A lot of these really arrogant pricks, they're very insecure. Right? They may have this bravado and it works on some people, but they're terribly insecure and you can see it in how they approach certain scenarios. So you have to be secure in who you are. So when you're secure in who you are, you understand that you're good at things. you're also bad at things. You understand you have room for improvement. You understand that you're doing amazing things and you understand that there are some things you need to work on. And that's fine. Whereas arrogant pricks, they think they're perfect. They have, they don't have any room

to improve that it's always their way. But when you're humble enough, like, you know what, George, your way is better. You know what? When it comes to that stuff, I need to really ask you. Like I know I'm not as good like operations. I'm not the operations guy. My business partner is because I'm the type like, hey, you know, let's go. Let's go on a trip. It's like, well, did you bring your passport? Did you bring this?

I was like, yeah, you know what? I need that. Oh, well, did you realize you have this other meeting tomorrow? I was like, yeah, I got to move that around. So that's not my strong suit. I'm really good at certain things, that creative aspect and all that. So it's realizing that, hey, I need good people around me if I want to get to where I want to go. and I can't do it without them,

but I'm also, I also know myself enough in that I also play a critical piece into things moving forward. So it's that understanding that your place in the system that you've created for yourself. I love it. One of my,

there's a rapper from Oakland called Too Short and he has this song called Get In where you fit in. Yeah. And it's so true, man. It's like, okay, where do I fit? And I've sat down with such, I've been super fortunate to sit down with so many cool people. And one little trick that I have learned is that when you sit down and talking to people,

truly listen to where they're comfortable at. Listen to what they're good at. Watch when they smile about what they talk about. And then that can be a spot where you can learn from them because you can see they're passionate about that. And I think that that works for interviews too. If you're listening and looking for the magic in the other person, that person's going to feel that. My grandpa used to say, people may forget what you say. They may forget what you do.

but they'll never forget how you made them feel. And I think we could all do that in relationships. And we should do it for each other. You know what I mean? That's a little trip, a little something people can do to make all their conversations and relationships better. I think it would work in interviews or anywhere.

It's worked for me pretty well. I'm going to tell you, like, in interviews, if you can get them talking about what they're passionate about, boom, you've won. And then the other thing is people are attracted to people who are passionate about what they're doing. So someone comes in, they may not be the most qualified on paper, but you see, wow, like, Janaya really cares about this.

George really cares about this. Like, he's passionate. I've seen the work that he does, the extra time that he's putting in. Like, yeah, this person more qualified, but you know what? I think this person, given a few months, will surpass this other person who's more qualified on paper. Yeah, that sort of resonance happens with people. And if you can connect on a level with someone, then you can resonate. together with them. And I think most people would. Most people would rather be around someone that

has a really positive and powerful, almost contagious energy rather than someone that is sterile, regardless of how good that sterile environment is. You know, a lot of the things that I like to do involve creativity. A lot of the things that I like to do involve imagination. You've got to have that certain Geneseecois, that certain other thing out there that will help people ignite their passion. It's an interesting idea to think about it. And it kind of brings us into this world of behavior and conversation and if we can dive into, it seems that company behavior is beginning to shift. You help out a lot of people and you would mention certain corporations that are kind of moving away from the degree model that are more than willing to look at other people based on

their lived experience or their talent or things like that. What are some of those companies? And do you see this is a path forward for other places. Let me tell you, I've broken people without degrees into Amazon, Microsoft, Google. And then these are just like some of the companies. There are hundreds of companies. And I'm going to tell you that depending on the role, companies are more open. Like sales, marketing, or tend to be more open. technology because technology moves too

freaking fast. Right. Finance is one of those that gets a little tricky just because finance is a very oh, you went to this school. Oh my God, you must be so amazing. Like it's a very, I tell people, focus on industries that are more, that focus on more meritocracy as opposed to industries that focus on hierarchies. So you've got to look at that.

Law. Oh, where'd you go to school? Oh my God, this guy went to Harvard. This guy went to Yale. He must be so amazing or she must be so amazing, all that. Whereas technology is like, yo, who has the coolest thing? Wow, this 19 year old is a great programmer. We got to listen to her. Same thing, marketing. It's, hey, what are the results? Where some things they can muddy the results.

Like, oh, your report wasn't good enough because it's like, how do you judge your report? Sales is like, oh, you brought in 300K, no degree? I don't care. Marketing, oh, your campaign reached this, it led to this many sales. I don't care. Technology, oh, you were able to build it. So always trying to think about areas that have results because they can't choose to have hierarchies because the guy the person could be at the top, but it's like, yo, this 19 year old is selling more than you. Like there's just no nothing about it.

That person is selling more than you. So, and I always say focus on your industries because think about it. Like you look at it like TikTok, right? It's all these 19 to 25 year old people. Safety YouTube. All these different, they're not traditional people who had XYZ backgrounds. So, and then companies are forced to pay these people 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60K for brand deals, maybe for post and all that. And why?

Because it's like they've proven themselves. So just a lot of industries. And then even a lot of smaller companies sometimes are open. So again, go have the conversation, highlight what you bring to the table, show that you're so qualified that they don't even ask you where you went to college. Yeah. Yeah. brilliant point. I think it brings up the idea of this new sort of creator economy that's merging. Like we talk about some of these people that are influencers or they are branding experts or they

have found a way to create wealth for themselves and they have their own little vehicle. They can have a CEO jump in the passenger seat, take them for a ride. What do you see emerging in this new creator economy? What does it even mean the creator economy thing? So how I view the creator economy is that over time, in some areas, things become decentralized. So what that means is, historically, if you wanted a commercial, you had to get these actors, you have to go through these agencies, you wanted X, Y, Z. Now, more and more companies are realizing, like, hey, people are relating to this 22-year-old woman, this 22-year-old guy who's creating content. about this and they have authority in their area they have built in audience so creators are having

more influence over the average partner just because it's like thinking about it like before you'd watch cable or something like that now people will watch youtube channels they'll listen to podcast and because it's easier to create you can get some solid info like when I want to learn topics I go to podcasts and there's some podcasts that have gold advice that I've learned so much from. And it's like really helped me. And like, you know, people are going to people like me instead of a big firm to get their resumes done.

And I'm doing a better job than some of these big firms because I care. And that's what the creative economy is. It's just that there's so many more ways to make money. People are realizing like, hey, I didn't want to do this. I'm more passionate about this. And just giving people just different opportunities to. just make a living. Yeah.

A good example is what you're doing. When I go and I see what you're doing, not only am I blown away by the information there. However, you're so relatable. And I'm like, this guy's like me, man.

Like, I can see what this guy's doing. And like he's totally approachable. He tells, he's honest with his story. I don't have to go through some double doors and talk to a secretary that's intimidating for this guy and wait for some dude in an office.

Like, I don't have to do that. Like, I can just go talk right to this person. And this person will look me in the eye. tell me exactly what they think, they care what I'm doing, and they'll show me, look, man, I've talked to and help people just like you right here, here, here. And a lot of the times the information is like free, like you're willing to help so many people

get their foot in the door to show them, hey, I can do this. If you want to go further, let's do it there. But that's such a better model. It's so much more liberating and it's so much more functional and it's so much more free. And on some level, it seems like we're moving away from these really restrictive ideas of, you know, education, copyright, all these really hardcore things

that have forced people to not have any mobility. Now that's kind of freeing up a little bit. Do you see maybe the upward mobility for the average person kind of coming back, the social mobility?

I mean, it's like tough. I mean, because there's a lot that goes into it. I do think there are more avenues for people to move up, but I also think there are a lot more distractions. So it's a double

edge sword, right? Social media is a gift and a curse. You can spend your time learning so many things or you can go down rabbit holes that aren't productive for you. So it's like, it's like tougher that the ability's there, but these algorithms, man, they're like designed to like keep you wasting time and watching that, right? Their incentive is not to make your life better. YouTube, all these platforms, maybe LinkedIn is to get a job, right? But it's to keep you on the platform longer. Like, they don't care if you never move up. If you, if you spend, 16 hours a day on TikTok, the execs are going to be happy. They're not going to be like, oh, man, we're causing XYZ.

They're like, that's someone else's problem. So I do think that there are some avenues to move up, but you have to take the action upon yourselves and you have to figure out how do you make it work for you? Because I'm going to tell you, a lot of people learn that they have ADHD because they'll watch TikToks and they'll be like, wow, this describes me. And now they have a good learning source and all that. So then they learn these things, they figure out how to implement and all that.

So just like there's a lot of gold on the internet, there's also a lot more junk. And there's probably like 10 times more junk than there is gold. So you have to make sure like are you focusing your time on the right things? Yeah, it's a great point. And I think it speaks to the evolution of education and where we are right now at this crossroads. You've spoken quite a bit about the world of AI and what it could be doing not only to teach us, but what it could be doing to the future job market. I wonder if you could elaborate, maybe just some thoughts on AI.

Yeah. So I have a different opinion on AI. A lot of people say, oh, it's going to automate jobs away. What I say is AI automates tasks. And if your job is all tasks, it's going to be automated. What I think is AI enables people to be more productive. And it's going to shake up industries and then make things different. And that's how things have always done, right?

Like the typewriter changed things, right? The computer changed things. the internet change things. But you get innovation, you get differences, but you as a person need to understand how can I use AI to change things? What are the benefits of AI? Where will AI hurt me?

You know, where will it, like, where is it not a good use? So I think AI is meant to fill the gaps so that you can spend more time focusing on the things that you like and that make you more productive. Like, for example, AI, like, I didn't, get rid of any my workers. I just said, hey, you know, use this to go faster. And then, you know, now you'll have time for these other things that we never got around to. But people have to realize that companies are oftentimes, we'll be like, oh, we could just use this AI. Things are

not going to work. Then bring back people. Companies always go to a little too much on cost cutting. Yeah. Yeah, I heard a good quote once that was, you shouldn't be worried about AI taking your job. You should be worried about someone who knows how to use AI taking your job. And that's what's going happen. That's what's going to happen because let me tell you, I write resumes. I've had more business this year doing resumes than previous years, despite the release of chat GPT because garbage in, garbage out. So the fact is chat TPT can write a fluffy resume that doesn't say much, like efficiently delivered boxes to, you know, high-end clientele, blah, blah, blah. But it's like, okay, I have no idea how many packages you delivered.

I have no idea of your metrics. So the thing is, if you know your metrics and all that, you don't really, then yeah, then it's helpful. But the fact is, it's like you need to know that in order for it to be useful. So if you don't have the metrics, it's not going to be useful. It's just going to be a better sounding resume. And then everybody else is using it.

So you're not standing out, right? So it's about using it, using it efficiently, using it in situations where it matters so that you can really add more value. Yeah, it's a fascinating tool. And it seems that sometimes the discussion, we have this amazing tool in our hand that can help us move forward. But we're so worried about how we're holding the tool instead of like, let's just start using the tool. It's fascinating to think about.

I'm hopeful for the future to see new innovation and hope to see new people rising up that have skills in order to make things happen. Do you see any other trends on the horizon that could be changing? the landscape here? Honestly, I think AI still has to develop a lot, and I think the future of AI is customized AI, like my friend has a company, and it's AI, but it's AI for a very customized use. And I'm using AI tools, but like, for example, I'm going to use one that's just on podcast, show notes, transcript, and it's just for that purpose, right? Whereas like, you know, the general AI is it's just, it's not fine-tune for a specific purpose. So I think that's,

I see the future of AI. I think some industries are really going to change. I think the creator economy is going to keep on growing. I think the world's going to get more complex and things are going to change just because it's like you know, more and more countries

are gaining power and that changes just the relationship between countries and what happens and all that. So I think more areas of the world will develop, but it's such a complex thing that I always tell people, you know, just try to be a good person and try to uplift the people around you and try to make just the world around you better.

I think if everybody has that goal, we go pretty far. Yeah, I agree. On the topic of podcast, I've only recently begun to see them as both a service and a product. It seems that in so many ways, the podcast is a long form interview or a short form interview, but it's something that someone can always have in their portfolio that they can point people towards. So in some ways, you're providing a service and a product simultaneously. I'm wondering, like, do you ever think about it like that?

or what do you think is the podcast as a as a thing and what do you think it might be moving forward might it might it to continue to adapt and change I think the podcast is a content marketing tool that's how I've always viewed it and I love viewing it as a product and a service but it's a very interesting product so I see it as a service in that I charge a good amount of money like typically when I'm working with someone I'm charging like a hundred to $250 an hour and it depends on the time arrangement all these other things and I understand not everyone's in a situation to award that right you're you don't have money and all that and i don't want you be stuck so then i have like a course right so i have like a course and i that's what sponsors my podcast but the other thing is

i tell people look listen to these podcast episodes get some insight it's free advice yeah doesn't hurt and so at least i'm putting them in a better position than they were in like i wish i could help everyone for free but the podcast allows me to help lots of people for free at scale Yeah, and it does. There's so much awesome advice in there. I think that that's something that's different than so much of the previous economy where people felt like they were, don't give anything away. You know, like there was, there's this old paradigm of like, you're giving that away for free. And this economy is like, yeah, I'm going to give that all away for free because I want people to be better.

And it's, I think it's that idea of helping people and giving them this information for free that allows everyone to take it to the next level. It's sort of leveling the playing field. And maybe that's why the real creators are beginning to rise. And there's so much competition moving forward is that, yeah, here's all these secrets out here. He's got to sift through them, but there they are. Let me tell you. So you can give away everything for free.

And, you know, I have a paid course. I still write the, the course teaches you how to write the resume. People still use me to write the resume because I can still teach you everything, but you're not going to be as good as I am when it comes to writing that resume. So I have like a reduced model where it's like, hey, take the course and I'll write your resume for a reduced fee because now it's going to be much quicker since you know the info in the course.

And a lot of, that's like one of my most popular ways where it's like they buy the course and they still use me. I literally will tell them the course teacher, like I still want to use you. And that's like the power of when you establish yourself and you give a lot way for free, they're like, wow. And here's the other thing. It's like it's also the packaging, right,

that I could tell someone, hey, go listen to 100 podcast episodes free. You'll learn everything you need to know. Or it's like, hey, spend three hours with me. And boom, you'll get it in that three hours because it's also the customization. Because now I'm going to tell you, I'm at the stage where I've listened to so much podcasts

and I've learned a lot that when I'm listening to a new episode, I'm not going to learn the whole episode. I'm learning maybe from 5 to 20%. But that 5 to 20% is what I don't have. And that's what I'm going into for that episode. It's almost like this is the new form of education. When we look back at what school kind of was, when I started looking at classical education, people would go and they would learn from a master who knew or had the lived experience.

It's almost like, you know, podcasting or YouTube where the digital age is the new school. It's sort of the next evolution. You know, maybe you need both, but it's right there, right? It's a similar model. Yeah, it is a similar model. And I'll give some opinions on that. I think there are some great resources. I also think there are a lot of bad resources because a lot of boot camps and alternatives.

alternative popped up and they're pretty bad they're like pretty scammy but there's not as scammy as a six thousand dollar econ one-on-one class so like to make sure just because things are in new form that you do your research that like it's it's what you need it's what you it has good reviews maybe ask someone and all that just because again just because there are new forms learning doesn't mean it's good and you know maybe some of the old forms do are better for you So you have to figure out what's right for you. Man, it's so awesome. I love talking to you, man.

I love watching the podcast. I love going to the LinkedIn page and reading all the comments. You have such an epic audience that's so intertwined in what's coming out. And it seems like people in your audience are always giving back. And I think they share a similar passion. And that they're helping people too, man. You have just a great community. And maybe you can talk real briefly on like, what does it take to build a community like that?

A lot. I think building a community is one of the hardest things there is. Because think about like a garden. You have to build it. You have to nurture it. You have to water it. You have to maintain it. Same thing.

Like, you have to really focus on them. And I'm going to tell you, if you want to focus on profit, a community is not the way to go. Because you have to pour in more into your community than you get. but the fulfillment and the rewards and over the long term, it just leads to so much more. But it's one of those things that, and the impact you can have on those people, it's just absolutely amazing.

You know, it brings up this idea that there's something, there's something more pure. Maybe a new definition of wealth is how well your community is, versus how much profit you have because it's so much more fulfilling. When you're helping other people do things, you get such a richer feeling of success. Like, yeah, help that person do that. And then all of a sudden, someone will come and help you do something. But if you're just focusing on profit, you're kind of had that old idea of the companies.

Like companies give people an employee number. They take the humanity out of the employee in a way. And it seems that production is creativity stripped of its imagination. But when you're building a community, you're imagining the people, around you making your life better and you're doing that for them. So maybe that's what's happening in this creator economy

is that people are beginning to put the humanity back into production and when you do that, the creativity that comes from it is it's so much more amazing. But community and relationships is currency. What do you think? I do think so.

I think it's the most valuable currency that is. While not everyone values it, I do think it's changing because you're seeing all these community, all these companies are like, oh, we need community. We need community. And the thing is, I don't think companies will ever get community right because they're so focused on it from an ROI perspective that a lot of times these executives, they don't understand that.

They don't understand community and all that, all right? Because they're in a different, like, just a different lifestyle. I do think this gives smaller groups a chance. So I always say join communities, like if I were younger, and what I've always done is I've always joined different communities, like in person, networking, and I've learned so much. and my community has poured back into me in so many ways that I could not have predicted. That's such awesome information. I think the future is bright. I'm not saying it's not without struggle.

And I'm not saying that if you don't have the background that society deemed necessary in the last 20 years, it's a bit of a struggle. You've got to work really hard. But there's a lot of people that are already working really hard that should have more, that have this lived experience. And I want to say to everybody out there, If you have fought to be where you are today, then you have the spirit to take you to the next level. If you have fought to be where you are today, then you deserve to have more. And you should be investigating other opportunities out there because the creator economy that's here and now is providing opportunities for people. And if you have the understanding of how to work hard, then you can do it.

But you know, you've been so awesome with all your time. I love talking to you. And I want everyone to go and check out your page, check out the no degree podcast, check out all the information that you have out there. because you're giving a lot of it away for free. And there's no doubt in my mind how much you love and care about your community. And I think it's one of the best ones people can subscribe to. Before I let you go, man, what do you have coming up? Where can people find you?

And what are you excited about? Yeah, so, I mean, you give it all away. So check out no degree.com. If you're looking for a job, there are a lot of resources on there. I mean, most of them are free. I do have like a paid course. So feel free to check that out. That's more structured.

And that's how I find myself. Then find me on LinkedIn. You know, Janiad I'd, you have my LinkedIn. So put in the show notes. Yep. And check out a podcast that you and I have about your life because I want people to know about your life. And make sure if you send me a connection and I'm going to tell you, just put a personalized request. Like, hey, listen to you on the True Life podcast.

That's it. Even if you put True Life podcast, I'll know where you found me. I'll be like, cool. I'll accept it. Because I get a lot of connections. I'm like, where does this person come from? And I really care more about community because I get so many connections that I don't accept people who aren't like about community. So I kind of look through people's activity.

Have they engaged with my friends? If I see someone has engaged with you, boom, accept. If I see someone has engaged with my friend, boom, except. But I see some people who are not engaging, who are not, who don't care about community. And I realize that what's the point of increasing my followers if they're not, if they don't care about community? So do that. And then check out the No degree podcast. I'm going to hit 170 episodes this week.

Yeah. And I have so many different and cool episodes. And again, it's one of those things that I'm really passionate about. But what I want to leave with is that you have something that's right, for you. Find it. Find it. Nurture it. Be curious about it. Be passionate about it and execute on it and watch where it takes you. It's so beautiful. So beautiful. Ladies and gentlemen, check out all the links down below. Do yourself a huge favor. Go check them out. Fascinating individual who is always giving to people

in the community. And the world is changing in ways that not only can you not imagine, but that are beautiful and glory. So that's all we got for today. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much. I hope you have a beautiful Sunday and the world unfolds in front of you. That's all we got.

Hang on one sec. Jenai, I'm going to hang up with the people, but I still want to talk to you briefly afterwards. Yeah, yeah, go ahead. I'm free. I'm free. Okay.

Okay. Ladies and gentlemen, Aloha. Okay.