TrueLife - Joshua Moyer - The Sound of a New Revolution

Episode Date: May 22, 2025

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/The Mycelium Is Moving.A few months ago, I launched something called The Psychedelic Science Art Challenge.No prizes.No promises.Just a call.I said: Submit your art if it speaks to the mystery, the meaning, the madness. I can’t offer you money. I can’t offer you fame. But I can offer you resonance. Connection. The possibility that someone, somewhere, will see your work and feel a pulse in their chest. The kind of pulse that says—I thought I was alone.One artist—Joshua Moyer—asked if I was accepting music.I said, “Of course.”He didn’t send one song. He sent many.Each one more raw, more electric, more alive than the last.An entire album was born. Psychedelic. Soulful. Savage. Sublime.He played every instrument. Sang every note. Sculpted sound like a sacred invocation.And now…His music is the foundation, the score, the sonic bloodstream of the visual art being submitted from creators around the world.Each piece, from every artist, stitched together by sound and spirit.Like spores forming a signal.Like a symphony of the strange and sacred.This isn’t a project.This is a remembering.Of what art really is.Of what artists really do.Joshua Moyer didn’t just answer the call.He became the call.To the artists who are quietly remaking the world,not with capital but with consequence,not with branding but with bravery—we see you.And to those who still believe art is a product,who think a certificate can make a prophet,who mistake algorithm for altar—you have no idea what’s coming.This is what it looks likewhen mycelium starts to dream.https://www.youtube.com@TheDichotomyCollectivehttps://x.com/DichotomyPsychohttps://www.instagram.com/joshuamoyerpsych/https://www.instagram.com/dichotomycollective/https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshuamoyernc/ One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scar's my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark. fumbling, furious through ruins

maze, lights my war cry Born from the blaze The poem is Angels with Rifles The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Kodak Serafini Check out the entire song at the end of the cast Ladies and gentlemen, it's Friday

I'm so stoked you guys are here, man I hope the birds are singing, hope the sun is shine Hope the wind is just at your back Ladies and gentlemen, today's guest doesn't just make music. He summons it. From the concrete cracks of rebellion and the sacred chaos of altered states, Joshua Moyer is that rare breed, part street poet, part sonic alchemist, part underground prophet. He built, ladies and gentlemen, for so many people that have been checking out my podcast,

this gentleman built the full soundtrack to the psychedelic science art challenge. He played every instrument, wrote every lyric, and bled every note like a sermon on the on guitar riffs, like back alley prayers, handpan rhythms that echo in the bones. It was so incredible to me, and I'm so grateful for that. Also, I want to say that Joshua is just not here to perform. He's here to ignite. He walks with the ones who speak in flame, those born from wound, not womb. He doesn't ask permission from the institutions.

He builds temples and the ruins they left behind. His art is rebellion, its remembrance, its resistance wrapped in melody. If you're looking for safe, skip this one. because if you're ready to rewire your sense and meet a man who turns suffering into symphony, welcome to this transmission. Joshua Moyer, thank you so much for being here today,

my friend. How are you? I'm good, man. I've never in my entire life had an intro like that. That is just like the most beautiful. I'm going to have you write every intro I ever have, ever in my life. That's some miraculous that you came up with that. That's so cool.

Yeah. I had some help, you know, and I know this man like that's the way I see you man and I'm so grateful for the work that you're doing and I want everybody within the sound of my voice to get to see what I see man and that's what I see brother so thank you well I really appreciate that and you know the other day I was messaging you and I'm not I'm not blowing smoke at all you know I think when I asked you about giving you some music right and I just sent you I think I sent you the binurals right in the chakra tone stuff yeah but then you know you had mentioned like hey do something

some electronic stuff for specifically for psychedelic science right right and um i think especially when you're like a creative person you go through these ebbs and flows right you're not creative all the time whatever if someone tells you that they're full of crap like you have these ebs and flows to it and you know i think just you saying that has launched me back into this huge like just cranking material out you know um I had a similar situation a couple years ago. I bought a new guitar. And not that the songs were in the guitar, but like,

you know, I just bought it. And it was just kind of that impetus to like just crank shit out, you know? Yeah. Because there's always like there's so many like so many songs that are in different stages of completion. And they're all like stuck in here. And I feel like, I have to get them out at some point, you know.

And then, but then I think. what am I going to do when they're all out? You know, what are you going to do? Then I'm fucked after that. And I got any more at all. I'm like, yeah,

then it's quiet. Then I'll be able to sleep at night. My ears won't be like full of, you know, I'm like, am I hearing that music outside my head or inside my head? I'm not quite sure. You know,

um, I do. But, no, I, I really appreciate the challenge of it. And, um,

I think they turned out cool, man. Yeah. I think they turned out real cool. I, uh, Yeah, George is Dr. X, thank you.

That's right. I'm telling you, man. I really appreciate your writing, George. I wish you say a lot of the things that I think, and I really wish I had the bandwidth to put words down for it, but I could never do it as eloquently as you, especially, you know, some of these posts on LinkedIn, like the Jim Jones post.

Oh my God. Don't get me started on Jim Jones. Like I am a cult nerd. I'm such a cult nerd, man. Like half my library of books. is on like cult mentality and stuff like that i love it man me too and then there's the uh yeah the mk ultra post you know right it's right there man it's happening these are things i talk about all the time and like you know like next post is like time isn't real right then i'm then you'll have my whole like

conversational textbook like whenever you know the conversations that alienate people and make them walk away you know but uh yeah it's it's really cool i appreciate i appreciate that you have that you're able to verbalize that. It's pretty neat. You know, I appreciate it, man. I feel like our language attracts those that are like-minded,

whether it's just phrase, the phraseology that you use, whether it's the poetic cadence you use, or whether it's the ideas that you talk about. I'm fascinated by cults. I'm fascinated by language. I'm fascinated by psychedelics. And for me,

like I sort of see this thing happening, you know, on some level where like, holy shit, you know, if, if history doesn't repeat, but it rhymes, like I can see on some level. If you go back and you look at that book inside the canyon or chaos, that Manson book, all of a sudden you can kind of see like how the parts may have been moved into position and stuff like that. And I see echoes of it today on some levels. You know, it's like, I could see how that could happen, you know, especially when the explosion of psychedelics and, you know, the, the well-intentioned ideas.

of people that want to help provide spirituality to someone who's been living a life without meaning. Like, whoa, that's a recipe for disaster right there, man. Do you see some of those echoes, too, or what do you thoughts? No, I absolutely do. I think we live in a time, and I blame social media, but whatever. No, we live in a time where there are so many people who think they have the right answer. Yeah. And that, which is fine, and you know, you feel confident in your viewpoint, that's fine.

But we, we're almost conditioned to follow somebody or something as people. Yeah. And, you know, you look at these cults from the outside in, and it's very textbook, each one, you know, especially if you like nerd out and look at them, you know, as separate entities. but it's it's always like praying on people who like you said are kind of hopeless and kind of really searching and maybe at the end of their searching journey they're like man i'm i don't know what the hell to do um and um you can almost see the writing on the wall um and i think that mentality is dangerous in our space right in the psychedelic space yeah uh because we are so

You're so open to I've always said that psychotics open the door, right? I know a lot of people have said that. It's not just me. But they don't, it's neither a good or a bad thing. The door is open regardless. And if you are somebody who's sitting, sitting with someone in a journey or, you know, they're deep in a psychedelic experience. And if you have any ego or bias at the forefront, right, you're going to kind of skew that person's experience.

And afterwards, you're going to skew their integration. And I think that's what we're losing right now is that historical, shamanic, like, walking alongside you type of thing. Instead of telling you what to do, walking alongside you. And I think it I hope things go in the right direction. I don't know that they're going to, but I really hope. I have faith that they will. But it's interesting to see and kind of look on the periphery of like, because I do social media for a living.

I have for many years. And like the more and more I do it professionally, the less and less I do it personally. You know, I have to draw back a little bit and just be a cat. observer in the background. And I'm fascinated by people. I'm fascinated by what they think and what they believe. But, you know, everybody wants to be famous super quick, right? Everybody wants to sell something.

I don't know how old your little one is, but like my teenagers, like, I don't think they want to be YouTube stars, but they're very like cognizant of the fact that they have friends who want to be. Like, that's her career endeavor, right? And we all want to monetize what we love and what we're good at. And I hate that word monetize. But, you know, there's a lot of shortcuts being made across the board for everything, whether it be, you know, intellectual pursuits or religious pursuits or, you know, spiritual pursuits, which I kind of put in different buckets, you know,

you know um but if you have the wrong person who's leading the charge and they're doing it from a like a egocentric power hungry stance watch out man watch out yeah because you know Jim Jones wasn't even a pastor wasn't even a pastor wasn't he wasn't he wasn't he just kind of found this niche and ran with it for a long time decades yeah yeah decades and that's the thing with with tying it back to cults like when you when you have these incidences that happened with cults you know um the jim jones town or like waco or anything like that we feel like it's a short these these cults have been around for decades decades it's not a short thing we only see the short part of it right and that gets me into the whole like propaganda and what media were shown and stuff like that so i have my

somewhere I'll put it on. Yeah. It's so interesting. Like, there was, when I lived in Hawaii, there's a really small island off of Hawaii called Molokai.

And I went out there and I got, it was very fortunate to get to spend a lot of time out there. And there was like this group of people there. And like, I remember, they were really, like,

I just remember meeting a couple of them. And I'm like, I got a really weird vibe from them. And so I asked one of the local guys I was working with my, hey, what's up of those people? He's like,

oh, I asked a cult, man. I'm like, the cult? He goes, yeah, that's the cult man those guys are on a cult man it's freaking crazy and so like i went online and like i saw i looked up like that there was a legitimate cult man and they had like it would do these

incredible um like weird things where they would separate the kids from the family and then they would have the kid like they would have the parents sit in a circle and their kids would rail against them and tell them how horrible they were and like why they were horrible people i remember like reading some of the stuff that escaped that cult and like what they were doing and i was like oh my gosh That's so trippy to see, but it's so, on some level, it's so fascinating to see the way in which people in these altered cults or in these altered states or when these new things, they use language to fundamentally transform behavior outside of society. Like, I can't get away from how fascinating that is, the way they do that. They have these cultural norms. And it does lead into like ideas like propaganda.

And all of a sudden, when you start realizing what happens. in a cult, you become aware of the first four letters of culture. And you go, oh my God, I'm in one too. I'm in one too. This whole thing we're doing is kind of culty, you know. It's a trip, man. What are your thoughts on that? Like, is culture a cult?

I think, I think 100%. You know, we are fed this, we are, no, seriously, we are fed this paradigm, right? That everything that we see and touch and feel and, and all the bullshit, we have to put up with. That's just like our reality, you know. And, uh, and it's, it's not, you know, I mean, first of all, we all have our own sense of like reality and what's, what's happening around us. But I'll give you an example of what I'm talking about this past fall, you know, um, so I have five kids, two high schools, middle school, and two elementary. Five kids, man. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Yeah, it's a tribe. It's like Lord of the Rings at my house in any given time. There's like, if I hear the Kant show, I'm leaving. I'm locking the doors. But yeah. So this fall with all the election stuff going on, you know, of course, my children were aware of it when asking a lot of questions about it. And I had to remind them over and over again, you know, the stories that you're hearing and the advertisements you're hearing, you have to. to go back where is that news source what is that news source is bias and ultimately if you want to go

really deep like who owns that news company yeah there's a lot of like a lot of direction involved yes and you have to question where this is coming from i i always think of the timothy literally quote you know think for yourself and question reality that's kind of what i live by and i tried i try to teach my kids, like you have to ask these questions. Yes. And, you know, on Caesar Martin, and I can't remember his co-host podcast about the new one. Gary Seal Horse. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rick Doblin was just on a couple weeks ago. And he mentioned in his parenting journey teaching them the difference of what's legal and what's moral. That's such a great one. Those, those are not the same thing. Yeah.

In my mind. You know, we live in the Bible Belt. So there's a lot of like these things. There's a lot of these biases and these old school mentality that, unfortunately, I think many, many people just are not going to break from ever. You know, I grew up in a family in Pennsylvania that, you know, we weren't the type of people who went to therapy. or like who saw a counselor, right? And oftentimes I think when people say that,

they are most in need of it. Like, right? They're the most of the need of counseling and therapy. And it's just ironic because now I'm in this counseling, clinical counseling master's program to be in the mental health field at 45, you know, and just thinking back that I kind of broke free a little bit. Yeah.

You know, and change that paradigm and change its trajectory. of, you know, where I'm headed in. But yeah, culture is a cult. 100%. 100%. We only get the information that people want us to get. Yeah. And if you want, it's almost impossible, like, to get the real story, I think. I think, you know, we hear about things from across the world.

And do we really hear the whole story? Probably not. There's no way. There's no way. we don't hear the whole story, how can we, how can we form an opinion or a viewpoint or a stance on how we feel about something? I mean, that's a rocky, that's a slippery slope, but. Yeah, I think it speaks volumes of the disconnection and the lack of meaning in our lives. Like, how can't, like, I think we've all collectively got to a point where like, I can't. This is, this is probably bullshit.

And I, what am I supposed to do with this? Like, that's probably not true. Or, like, even worse, like, that's definitely not true. So you just stop paying attention to it. And then with that comes the, you know, the, I can't trust these politicians. I can't trust this guy. I can't trust science. You know, like you start.

And then it bleeds into everything. And a good example that I've noticed lately too, Joshua, is like the whole medical system. Like, both of us have deep ties and love the world of psychedelics. But it's so strange to see the way in which science and medicine is trying to embrace it. All the language around it. When I start thinking about science and medicine, the latest thing that comes to my mind is this idea of PTSD. And I'm like, I think my opinion, if you're, if anyone out there is listening to this and you deal with PTSD, you're wrong. Everybody in my opinion in the world of PTSD is doing it wrong for the main reason they call it PTSD.

Post-traumatic stress disorder. As soon as we give someone a label, as soon as I say you, Joshua, you have a disorder. All of a sudden, I've taken. all this responsibility, I've slapped it on you, and I have given you a disorder. I've given you a label that is almost impossible to climb out of it. But not only is it impossible to climb out of, I'm going to build an industry around it so that you can always go to these people and stay in your disorder. Like, what if it was called post-traumatic growth opportunity? What if we treated it like a right of passage like it is? What if we built institutions around a post-traumatic growth

opportunity that fundamentally changes the landscape of how we get out of it? what's acceptable, what's not acceptable. But it brings me back to the idea of the language, much like the cults that we talked about early, much like we talked about culture, the language in medicine, the language in our lives traps us into these small-minded ideas, man. Is that a bridge too far? No, I don't think so. And actually, they're in a clinical sense, I believe, I don't know if it's in the, I don't

if it'll be in the DSM 6 or if it's not in the DSMTR5. But they've changed it to post-traumatic stress syndrome. It's still a syndrome. It used to be shell-shock. It used to be this. It used to be an illness. And you know, I have a really deep, deep heart for veterans. Actually, that's what my clinical counseling degree is in, is specifically on the veteran,

military veterans and trauma-informed counseling. So that's what my degree is going to be in. So, you know, what's interesting to me is, yeah, like, to your point, you used to be shell-shocked. And then after that, it was- Golf Force syndrome or something like that. Yep, yep. And like PTSD wasn't even a thing until 1980, I think was the way and the definition was made. And I think at least for, and, you know, first of all, I think we get to your point, We get stuck in this box.

That PTSD is a veteran thing. Everyone can get, everyone can have PTSD. We all have shit, right? Yeah. And some of us have deeper shit than others. Yeah, seriously. But I think if you look back

on the history of warfare, stick with me. Yeah, I'm with you, man. I got you. But, you know, going all the way back, warfare was a battle-based scenario.

You would say, okay, we're going to meet on this battlefield. We're going to kick each other's asses. We're going to take some time, recoup, and then we're going to have another battle here, here, here. And that was kind of the case, more or less for our modern history. And then you get to Vietnam, where it's a guerrilla warfare style. These men are on 24-7, right? Um, they never get a break mentally physically.

You know, they are, um, they're fighting people that they can't see number one. And that it's really hard to identify who their allies are and who their opponents are. Yep. Um, and then you get, you know, you can get deeper into it of the whole, uh, the whole agent orange thing. Yeah. You know, where, where they were spraying Agent Orange and then when the tanks were empty, they fill them with water and that's what the guys were showering in. I mean, forget about it.

Who thinks this is a good idea? And then you add in the whole drug component that was so huge in Vietnam. You know, and then these men who were, they were fighting for what they thought was right. Regardless of what we think in the government or what we think the prerogative of the ruling powers were, these men and women, of course, I don't mean to exclude, but they were fighting for what they personally we thought was right. And then they come home and they're just shit on. Yeah.

You know, my father, he left home the day after he graduated high school, severely abused as a child, just all, his whole life, left home, hitchhiked to Colorado and enlisted in the army. This man did two tours as a sniper in, or a sharpshooter in the army. He was home by 21 years old. He had done this. And then he comes home and people are just like treating him like shit. I mean, when I was 21, I was a mess.

Yeah, totally. I was in college. I was partying. I was, you know, doing my thing. Like, I can't, it's, I can't imagine. And, and, and speaking about cults and culture, there is such a closed system of culture in the military as well. I think that's what makes it very hard for these men to, to seek help or even to admit that they have a problem. because there's such a culture of, you know, suck it up, buttercup in military life.

And I think you're right. I think these people definitely need help, but I don't know that pigeonholing them into a box is going to help. I do think in our space, we're seeing some really good progressions with the, you know, the MDMA therapy for PTSD and psilocyme and stuff like that. We had a rough year last year, right? Yeah. Yeah. It was a rough end of the year.

I hope that 2025 will be better. But yeah, I just, this is something, I mean, I talk about it all the time. My whole counseling thing is on that. And my whole, my long view of, of what I want to do personally is, is more from a, whether it's, you know, legit clinical counseling, which is kind of an old school stuffy mentality, right? But I have this concept of, you know, you don't need to counsel someone in four walls, especially like, yeah. I, as a man, I would rather like sit around a campfire, smoke some cigars and have a, have a session like that, right? Yeah.

Or like an or go hiking and have a session. Like you can legitimately have a talk therapy session. A better one. Why does it have to be in? Precisely. Why does that have to be in four walls? You know, I just adopted this German Shepherd for Christmas. And like my goal is to have him, he's just going to be the office dog.

You want to pet the dog while you're talking? Go for it. You don't? Fine, he'll sit with me. You know, and there's something about that tactile disconnect. Yeah. That breaks you free for a momentary time of that hardwired bullshit that you have in your head, which is exactly what, as we know, psychedelics do.

They disconnect you from that hardwired bullshit. for any period of time. And the problem with anything, and I think the problem that we're starting to see in our space is the importance of integration afterwards. Because you can have a transformative experience, but if you cannot connect it to your daily life and all that you cannot connect it to trying to unwire

or dismantle something, of that bullshit, it's for not. It's wonderful that you had a great experience like that. But if it doesn't help you with your daily life, why did you do it? Yeah. It's a great point. It's a really great point. And I, the terminology, though, like, I just, on my darker days, I think about the way in

which we build institutions around disease, like, we're always. studying sickness instead of studying wellness. And it creates a sort of victim mentality. It creates this weakness. And we, you know, and it just, I don't see. If you're not working outside the box, you're trapped inside the box. You know, if you're, if you don't have a seat at a table, you're on the menu. And like, I see that happening all the time.

I'm going to get to me this commentary. Lighterhorn, my brother, thank you so much for being here. He says the sole choosing difficult experiences to be of service to others. It's not a popular concept in mainstream. This is why I love you, LiDAR, man. It's a great point, man. Really is. Yeah.

Nico, she says, I totally agree that pathologizing our experiences can sometimes keep us stuck in a limiting narrative. But in some cases, naming what we're struggling with can also feel empowering and validating. The real issue, in my opinion, is that nowadays we label everything as trauma or PTSD. And we're losing the reality or we're losing the ability to distinguish between healthy levels of stress or friction and genuinely debilitating experiences. Nico, I think that's a brilliant point. I think that we're also losing resilience. I think that we're losing the ability for us to stand on our own and realize that what we're going through is necessary. I see it in the psychedelic space where, you know, you can become a guide or you can become this or that without really breaking.

I think that the world, I think PTSD, stress, like, it's all here for a reason. Like, if you go through some really hard shit, like, that is what qualifies you to help someone else. If you can come through something and make it through, maybe you lose your family. Maybe you lose your house. Maybe you lose your job. But on the other side of that, you have been ordained as someone that has experience, understands the language of experience, and now can help someone move through. Joshua, what are your thoughts on what Nico's saying over here about pathologizing experiences, but being able to name them as well.

First of all, Nico is awesome. You should have her on sometime. Nico, I'll reach out to you. She's really cool. She sounds like it. Yeah, I think that's a brilliant point. Yeah. Labeling people puts them in a box.

You're right. And telling them that they're sick, then they're going to believe that they're sick. Right. Telling them. And, you know, it really does come down to the fact of that we work so hard on healing the sick, but we don't work at all on keeping people well in the first place. It's so crazy.

Yeah. I mean, like, if we focus more on, you know, healthy things that would, you want to get sick in the first place, you know, but there's money in this, in people being sick. That's the whole, you know, that's it. That's it. We don't, you, you don't have to say anything else, right? There's money in the cure. There's money in the patch, not in the cure. Well, you're right. You're right. The patch that holds, holds the dam at bay, a little, like, little cement. You know, there's money in that. You're in the dyke. Yeah, exactly. No, I, I think you're right. And it's just, the whole thing, fast.

needs me. Me too. But yeah, it's interesting. It's where I, like I, this is where I think on some level, what really bothers me about the psychedelic space. When I start looking at like some of the, the whole, the way the whole maps organization seems to be moving on some level is that like, okay, we have to figure out a way to monetize this.

We need to make money. And then, you know, you start getting politicians involved and there's talk of legalization, but the idea of decriminalization has kind of moved off the map. And I don't know how to do it. But what I fear is this idea of the language being built around something that I think is sacred. You know, and if can you commoditize something sacred? I don't think it like I don't think it's a good idea to draw Mohammed. And those that do it are going to end up paying a pretty big price for it.

On some level, commoditizing psychedelics to me is the same thing. It's like, here's this thing. It's a birthright that has been around. And if you have the courage to do it, you can do it alone, and you can have radical transformation. But then people start popping up like, no, no, no, no, that's not it, George. Listen, if you give me 10 grand, I'll tell you the secret, we got to give me 10 grand first. And I'll make you a guide and you'll come down and you'll meet Moon Panther. It's going to be amazing.

But it's cost 10 grand, man. You got to figure it. And then people that want to believe, people that are noble and have this intention and or maybe being called to be something bigger than themselves, they're at the edge of cracking. Like they're beginning to, like, move around in their chrysalis. And then people are like, we're going to break you out of this chrysalis. But you don't understand if you break someone out of,

if you break a butterfly out of a chrysalis, you kill it. People need time to suffer. And psychedelics can be the catalyst to help you become the very best version of yourself. But it's not going to be easy. And no one can do it for you. And this gets us all the way back full circle to medicine, pathologizing things. So I don't know. That's kind of a shot way out in the dark back there.

But what are your thoughts on some of the things I was talking about, the direction of maps and maybe the medicalization of psychedelics? I think we're in a little bit of a stuck place because I think that in order to legitimize, we need to medicalize. I'm going to write that down. Listen to that. You know, it's hard because like, yeah, you're right. If we don't.

And I don't know that I hate to say it, but things are so structured that I don't know that we have another choice. And I hate to say it that way. But I do. I mean, I think that the only way that we're not going to be thought of as like hippies who do drugs is if it makes its way into. legitimate medical culture. And I, I, I wonder, is that like, is that the way in? And then we'll fix the way they think about it. Are we going to be able to fix the way they think about it?

Or is it okay being in the underground? I don't, I don't have the right answer. Because I do worry about there's a lot of like salesy stuff going on in our space. Yeah. And I've not a salesman. I've never been a salesman. But I feel that you're right. I think people can take it advantage of.

Yeah, good people. Like really people that want to change. People that are like coming to terms with their suffering. Like holy shit, I could do something about this. Mm-hmm. But you take away that, you take away the pain. You take away the catalyst for change. And I know it's hard.

Like I don't want people to be. in pain. But I think that on some level, the suffering is what is what drives the change, man. And you can't have the real change if you're not allowed to really hit rock bottom. What is the quote? You can only take someone as far as you've gone yourself. Something like that. That's beautiful. That's not mine. That's not mine. But I do agree. I think that that unless you have gone to your darkest place, you cannot take someone to their anywhere.

Yeah. You know, and I think that, I think that was a lot of the, the history of shamanism. Like, these people lived on the periphery of society. You know,

they were not like the famous guy talking on the, on the soapbox all the time. They, you know, and they usually had a very sick childhood. Yeah. Historically.

So, um, and it wasn't something that they chose or they woke up one day, like okay you know what i'm a spiritual healer now and i am going to teach you my ways of spiritual healing and you're going to pay me and all this stuff you know um it was hard man it was hard and everything we do now is to to um just make things as easy and as dumb everything is dumb down as dumb down as as dumbed down as possible. Yep.

And because people who think for themselves are dangerous. Yeah. Without a doubt. If you're a free thinker, it's dangerous. Your question and authority. You're a rebel rouser. You're a threat to the system. Hey, man, this guy's thinking for himself.

What the hell is he doing? Someone shut that guy up. You know what I mean? 100%. Yeah. I think so. I think that's going to be the, you know, when I look at psychedelics, I kind of see it sometimes, like maybe it is that Trojan horse that we talked about. Maybe it infiltrates into the system and then people start realizing, hey, this stuff's kind of lame.

Maybe I can make some changes over here. I think that was kind of Huxley's idea of, you know, maybe on some twisted level with Brave New World. Like, yeah, you could infiltrate it. And then you have the outsider that comes in and people begin to see maybe things are wrong on some level. but yeah it's interesting to think about we got another comment coming right in here for you they say drugs and war World War II was well known for meth weighted

paranoid to the nth degree nom was known for giving heroin to soldiers and now in the unofficial misinformation war what substance do you think may be the next pharma psychedelics it's a great point I think that a psychedelics can be used either for a disassociate or a catalyst for change. And I would say a lot of people are,

I think the idea of microdosing is sort of like a numbing feeling. I think a microdose on some level allows you to deal with a life that is not worth living. And you go, man, there's not such an asshole. Maybe I'm a dick. I just go back to work tomorrow. It's like it disassociates on a really small level.

But you kick that thing up to five or seven grams. You're like, holy shit, I need to quit my job. I'm going to have to do it. There's nothing else I can do. Got to leave. You know, so I think that he's, he or she, it doesn't say who it is just as LinkedIn user. But yeah, I think psychedelics are a huge part of this, this new oncoming onslaught of media war.

And people should be ready for it. What are your thoughts, Joshua? Yeah. Like, I think we are on the cusp of a really great opportunity. We just can't screw it up. Yeah, we can't screw it up again because we don't want to have to go dark for another 50 years. We'll all be dead. Maybe not. I mean, I don't think I'm going to live another 50 years, but you probably will. I'm not sure either, man. I don't know if I want him.

I know, but where was it going on with that? Oh, I think we also have to worry about, again, I say where people are getting their information from. know um excuse me in the in the you know in my class in the classroom when i'm talking about i'm sure my cohort my professors get tired of me talking about psychedelics and whatever or whenever i'm introducing if someone asked me like hey what do you do and i'm like well i do a lot of different stuff but uh you know and whenever the the point of psychedelics come up i'm like you have to be aware of where you're getting this information from yeah just like i mentioned with my kids with the election stuff because it's not all like pink cocaine and ketamine and celebrities diamond it's not yeah you know and then someone reads this one news article that

came across their news news feed on their phone and they they form this opinion and it's solidified so again i i i think we are like i think we're rebounding from a tough year like like um you know, Rick, Rick Doblin again in that same podcast. He said, you know, like a phoenix rising from the ashes. And that's why I sampled, I sampled that quote of his and put it in that song and called it the Phoenix. Because I think we are. I think we're coming back. But again, like, if it's not treated correctly, it's going to get messed up again. And I think part of that, that I maybe the most important part of that is giving the medicine.

and the respect it deserves. And giving the people who have given us this medicine the respect they deserve, the indigenous people, they have to be respected. They have to be part of the conversation. You know, we can't just take stuff from them and commoditize it. If they, if we don't do that, we're going to screw it up. And I think that's part of the conversation. I think that's being talked about.

There's some sessions being talked about it. Psychedelic Science about the respecting indigenous people. But we have to treat it right. You have to treat it with a respect. It's not kids play. We're not talking about going to a party and eating mushrooms, right? It's real.

It's serious. It's serious shit. You do an ibogaine session. You're hooked up to an H.E. the whole time. 72 hours for some people. Yeah, that's like the grandfather, right? Ayahuasca's the grandmother.

Ibegan's the grandfather. I believe Kim said that on her on her podcast last week. I think she did. She's amazing, Kim. She's great. She's great. But yeah, I hope we don't mess it up. I think on some level,

whenever I start going down the rabbit hole, I'm like, look, it's got an intelligence. It's an intelligence has been here long before us. and it's doing what it needs to do. You know, it's maybe we're ready for it. Maybe we're not. But time will tell. You know, and I can't help.

I don't know. On my darker days, I'm like, oh, this is going on. And I'm like, I'm like, I'm not that. I'm so self-important. Michael, that ain't going to happen. Why don't I think that's going to happen? You know, you start going down these roads of what can't happen.

And you're like, God, just let it go. We've got Nico chime in and over here. Nico, thank you so much for being here. I can't wait to talk to you later. She says, there's a great study that Catherine Liu mentioned in a podcast. showing that American veterans returning from the Vietnam War were significantly less resilient than Vietnamese soldiers, partly due to the disempowering narratives we tell ourselves about trauma and victimhood.

I'll try to find it. That's what I'm talking about. Nico, it's a great thing I would love, if you get that, let me know, because I would love to read it as well. Yeah, it's resilience is something that, you know, we all need to have in order to get through our time. Resilience might be the thing that we want to pass on to the next generation. But how do you have resilience if you don't have tragedy?

No, resilience is something that comes from overcoming tragedy. And the more we try to coddle, the more we give people diagnosis, the more we're not allowing them to walk through the flames of their own adversities. And there can be no resilience. Interesting to think about. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Adam. Adam incredible SEO artist, incredible individual.

Everybody knows Adam. Adam thinks it's a gift for being here, man. He's an amazing individual, man. Everyone would you check him out? He's got incredible content over on, on a substack. So go down and check out Adam on substack. He says, science is the arbiter of the legit. He, I like, you know, one of the reasons that I love him is he's not afraid to write about stuff that is kind of taboo on some levels.

You know, he's kind of taking it to task when it comes over there. I think we need more of that. Science is the arbiter of the legit in the West for better or for worse. Joshua, will you want to take that one? What are your thoughts? Yeah, I agree. It's hard to, no, I'm trying to come up with something eloquent. It's hard to disagree with when the science comes out. It's almost impossible to fight the narrative. It's kind of like the whole, with Graham Hancock questioning, you know, the paradigm of archaeology. Yeah.

You know, because he came with new findings and whatnot. And people are like, no, no, no, no. This is right. You're wrong. Like, okay. Like, I have this right here. Like, I figured this out. It's right here.

Right. No, no, no. You're wrong. Get out. It's like, but I have it. Like, you know, it's right here. What the hell? So it's, and you know, part of it is we're not meant to fight every battle either.

You have to pick and choose your battles. Yeah. And you, I'm a warrior. Like, I worry about everything. But at the end of the day, you should really only be. worrying about the things that you can change yeah you know there's big stuff that we personally can't you know you can't just change but there's little stuff there's a lot of little stuff throughout your day that you can change and and you know do your best and put your

best foot forward with yeah you know little small victories add up to to bigger ones yeah um you know it's like uh i got i got sober a couple years ago um from alcohol. So I'm not in the program. So I guess you can't call it sober, but I quit drinking anyway. And like quitting an addiction is a long line of small victories. Yeah. Right. Until it gets instilled in you, you know, you're making victories every day you're not drinking or every party you go to that you're not. That's kind of the best analogy that I can come up with. And we need to celebrate our small victories. Yeah.

But, you know, not everybody gets a ribbon. Not everybody gets a gold ribbon. Yeah. Yeah. I think it brings up the idea of schools, too, on some level. Like, if you go to a school and you get a certificate and no one fails, what is your certificate really mean. You know what I mean? Does everybody get a certificate? Let me get this straight. You give me 10 grand and everybody gets a certificate. No one fails. Not one person fails.

You're not really teaching anything. You're just pushing people through. Here you go. Good job. Thank you. Check cleared. Okay. He's good. You come through. But I think that that also is a problem with resilience. Like you can't have resilience without resistance. And it comes back to the idea of filter. And weak filters make weak leaders. And weak leaders lead people off of cliffs. Another point I would add to Adam Nunzio over here is that, you know, is it science or is it company science? Science has been captured by the corporate structure the same way. Like if you look at the clinical trials, you know, Joshua said earlier, who funded that trial?

Who's the person that owns the lab? Who's the doctor sponsored by? And you start getting to the point where like, ah, this is just this is a guy with a ton of money that said, find this result and tell me smoking's good for me. Okay, get on it, guys. Let's go. But that's, and that's, I think that that's a, here's another one for you, Josh.

Well, how about this? So many brilliant young minds, PhDs in the world of psychedelics, but how many of them are writing theoretical footnotes for big pharma companies, man? The brilliant kids out there, what do they see? But the opportunity to write a paper that can help a drug get patented, man. I feel like they're being captured as well. Is that unfair to say? No, I don't think so.

But they also like, goes back to my point, they are doing the noble work. They're just not doing it for a war like, unfortunately, like, they're doing what they think is best. But at the end of the day, you know, the big people who have all the power

write it, write it off. right or left, you know. And that's tough, you know, that's tough, like, to know that you can do all the work, but not necessarily have any say in it, you know. Yeah. I got hope for the, like, I got hope for something new because I, I feel like the whole school system on some level, even if you rebuild the school system, you're still rebuilding the

school system. Like, it's not, it's not something. that has been working for us. And if you're going to go down and pull all these teachers from this institution and set up something new, like you're just rebuilding a system that doesn't work on some level. There has to be a new way in order to create leaders or create students that are moving society forward instead of moving society into division. And like I see so much, but I have hope for it.

And I think some of these young kids coming out of school are figuring it out. Like, you know, maybe I shouldn't be spending all my time writing for pharmaceutical papers or, you know, you start seeing some of these journals that are just so corrupt. Like it costs so much money to publish in a prestigious journal in for what? Like, who are these crusty old gatekeepers that don't really care about anything but themselves and how much power they have to let in like a young girl be published? And Lord knows what they got to do to do that. But let me, before I go too deep on that tangent here, let me get back to Nico. She says, that's so true. I even notice myself shifting the way I talk about psychedelics and what they're for according

to the person I'm talking to. And this is sort of what happens at a macro level too. Yeah, that that's a brilliant point. But it also goes to show you, Nico, if you just talk to people in the way that is necocentric, that is Nico's language herself, you become the person that influences the conversation and they will change their language according to you. Joshua, what are your thoughts on what Nico's saying about language here? My dog was working.

Yeah, there we go. I think language and the words we use and the way we express ourselves is such an underrated component of the human experience. Yeah. But to Nico's point, I think we all live in different circles. And I do think you have to kind of edit yourself or or think before you talk in different in different situations, right? You know, you have to pick and choose. Yeah. You know, I live in the South.

I live in the Deep South in the Bible Belt. Like I have to choose what I talk about to people. You know, I can't. Is that because of what they'll think about you or what they might think about your kids or consequences? Part of it is like me having the preconceived notion that they have this hard and fast reality and viewpoint on certain things that it's not going to change. And no matter what I say, like I'm just kind of wasting my breath talking about it. So sometimes I just keep my mouth shut about it. Yeah, I guess.

Sometimes if I'm in the mood to do it, I'll dig my heels in and be like, all right, we're going in. I'm going to argue you to the death. Like, you know, other times you just, you know, sometimes you find yourself in these situations where you're just like, I'm just not going to say anything. And maybe that's not the right way to look at it. Maybe you do, maybe you need to be the person that speaks up and says something. But that's not always, it's easy to say that, but it's not always easy to do. it. Yeah. It's rarely easy to do it. And I think we do edit ourselves according to what we think, you know, and we're worried about what people think of us by the things we say. Yeah. Rick Rubin made a

good point that if you make music according to what you think people will like, it's not going to happen. If you make music that you like, then that's the point of it. Yeah. And yeah, I do. I think we get stuck in this. Okay. How am I going to answer this question? I always like it. It makes me feel crazy pants, but I think that you'll probably get it. When you do these like psychological assessments, like if you're getting a new job or whatnot in there, they're asking you those silly questions to figure out your personality. Yeah. I all 100% of the time going back probably till I was since I was a little kid,

I'm like, okay. So do I answer these questions the way I feel or the way I am? Or do I answer these questions in the way that I think they want me to answer them? You know? And, uh, oftentimes it's the latter. I'm like answering it. I'm like, okay, so this asked me this question like, uh, okay. Yes, I'm a diligent work.

You know, you think about how is this person going to take in this information, which again, it's not the way to take a test like that. A psychoanalysis says you. Yeah. So how is this person going to accept what I'm, my output? You know, I see that dilemma everywhere, especially like in the social media space. Everyone wants you to perform for the algorithm.

Hey, do this short video. Here's the new keywords. Here's all this stuff perform for the algorithm. But really, those are the companies forcing you to act a certain way. And some people are like,

listen, man, if I don't do this, then I don't get the views. I don't get that. And I don't get the monetization. But if you can, answer the question the other way. Like,

just perform. Like, first of Rick Rubin's new book is awesome. And there's so much good advice in there. But he's right. Just do what you think is right. And you know what? You may never get monetized.

You may never be this thing that you think you are in your mind to a whole bunch of people. But what if you did it for three? What if we had three awesome people that were like, that was freaking sick. I love that. That was so dope. And then you inspire that person. And that person goes and does something. Like you'll never know how much of the stone and the stone and

the calm body of water you are unless you have the willing to throw yourself into that pool. And so it's, I would answer, I would hope that everybody answers it the question the other way. Like, get as creative, as ridiculous, is absurd and as fun and as meaningful as you can. You know, I, um, I hope people do it. Like, if you think about your relationships, if you always did everything for your wife the way she wanted it done or if she always did for her husband the way he wanted it done, that wouldn't be a very passionate relationship. You know, you're going to, you're going to, you're going to, you're going to, you're going to, but you should stand up for yourself.

I just, I think you have to answer that question in life, the latter. Like, just you should be doing it the way you want to do it on some level to as much as you can. Here's a great piece. Yeah, go ahead. What do you got? Come on, Sean, and did two Reiki sessions on Zoom. No, Adam, they didn't. I'm sorry.

Adam, what is going on? with people doing Reiki sessions on Zoom, man. Is that even possible? I mean, can you do it? I don't know. I think you can have some nice talk therapy on Zoom, but I don't know. What do you think over there, Joshua?

I don't know. I don't know enough about Reiki to speak on it eloquently, but what I do know about it, I don't think is available on Zoom. Talk therapy is okay on Zoom, but you still, you miss out that, You miss out on that human connection. You miss out on being in the room with somebody.

You miss out on those like micro like attitudes and like the background, the background parts of a human, you know? Yeah. But yeah, you do some at some point have to do your own thing. You know, that's kind of like with this stuff, this music that I've been working on lately, this electronic stuff. electronic stuff has always been my own thing that's kind of like me in the in the zone in the studio for hours like by myself in the dark that's always been my thing and it's never been something i've

kind of like pushed on or um you know uh got out there well and well and see then that's a whole question did i not get it out there as well as i should or is it out there for for a reason i don't know but I just recently, I'm kind of on an indefinite hiatus from playing live. I used to gig all the time. And now I think I'm just kind of, like I said, in here doing this,

this is my safe space. And there's like some crazy shit coming out. You know, there's some crazy, crazy stuff that's coming out right now. This, you know, again,

the binurals and the chakrotones and all that stuff. And like dropping in like the shoe, on resonance, like the residents of the Earth, the 528 hertz, you know. I was working on something for Psychdelta Design Awards, and I didn't get it done in time, but kind of mixing like a live sound therapy session with the handpans and the didgeridues and all the stuff, but then also mixing in the binurals as well. Yeah. And having this crazy, huge transformative experience.

And then, you know, big subwoofers vibrating in the ground with like the 528 or the 432, like whatever frequency. Yeah. Imagine that. Like you're, you're in the space. You're in community with other people. You have these live singing bowls and,

and relaxing music. But then you have like the, the silent disco part of it with some binurals. And the, you know, the sub frequency. Dude, you're,

you're a blast. You blast off. Psychic notes or not. I mean, you know, we don't always have to take, psychedelics to have a transformative experience. But I think there's something.

Now, nobody steal my idea, by the way, because I haven't fully. Too late. Don't take that. Don't take that idea. I shouldn't have said that. But I do feel like there's something about that full spectrum envelopment of synchronous frequencies and different music to kind of, again, disconnect you from that hardwiring.

Because that's what we're trying to do. at the end of the day. We're trying to untangle all the bullshit that we've tangled up and tied to knots in our brain, you know. And I think there's something, I think there's something to that. There's something to the binurals. I was, I was just listening to walking the dog before we got on here, just to kind of get myself right, you know. I think there's something to it. So it's interesting because Betsy chiming in over here from Oceanside. She says, do you believe certain frequencies carry memory or even prophecy. That's, wow, that's fascinating.

Thank you, Betsy. It's a great question. I don't know that certain frequencies carry memory, but I do know. I mean, certain songs get stuck to a, to a feeling or emotion or a time, like a, a point in your life. And every time you hear that song, you are transported directly back to it. Yes. So I think that the power of the music has a way of just connecting to that point in time.

And again, you're just like, it's like a time machine. Yeah. You know, you can physically feel in the pit of your stomach. If you have a song that really connected with you when you were going, through the shit you physically feel that in your like solar plexus and maybe to vetsi's point maybe that's maybe that's the chakra area maybe that that solar plexa chakra maybe it is but like you feel that and you feel that emotion you know and you like tear up i mean i least i do on the yeah i think i'm i'm a very emotional person but like you know you go back you're right back to that feeling um you know i think of

when I listen to like cream wheels of fire or like iron I don't know if anyone knows iron butterfly that you should if you know I think of laying on my parents like brown carpet in the basement with the giant 1970s pan sonic speakers the giant floor ones you know yeah yeah stereo on both sides of my head I think of flipping through the album artwork and having that kind of that music on on vinyl and so every time I hear that it just boom transfers me right back to there um and i think it's a it's a beautiful thing but it's also kind of like it can be a triggering thing too depending on what what that experience that's connected to it can be a a hard thing to to do with yeah but it's the same kind of concept like when you're when someone's at the club and like the dj puts us on a song like this is my jam Like, you know, like, it doesn't have to be a dark, dark, dark, downward spiral place that I think. Yeah. But speaking of the downward spiral, like I, I could, I could draw.

And I'm not a visual artist. I could draw the exact, like, the moment that I saw the Downer Spiral album, saw it. I didn't even hear it yet. When I saw it on my bed, my dad had gotten it for me. And I, I see it. picking it up and putting it in that that album was such a transformative experience for me that is etched in my brain forever and ever um that experience um and every time i put that album on i think like exactly it's exactly burned in there note you know note for i could probably

sing you every line in that in that every line of every track in that entire album and that's etched that's etched in that point in time too so i think betsy has a really good point that's something i'd like to explore more if she certain frequencies hold on to that i'd love to i got to dig more into that for sure yeah i can't help but see the coincidence between the grooves in a record and the grooves in the grooves in the neural pathways like you have these deep grooves that keep going back and forth it's it's awesome that's why vinyl is superior yeah yeah Spoken like a true generation X. That's like vinyl and superior, man.

If you don't have that certain grit on the needle. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't sound right. It doesn't sound right. Yeah. I always add that to my tracks. I have like a certain sample that's like the vinyl shit.

And you can't really hear it, I don't think. But I literally probably put that in every track. Just because I want that like grainyness to it. Yeah. Especially doing so much electronic stuff. it kind of makes, it gives it a little bit of an organic in the back of your mind. You don't really hear it, but you hear it back here somewhere. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. There's a certain sort of grit. I like that term grittiness of it because you can hear it. You know what I mean? Like you're like, okay, this is real. This is not just a simulation. This is a real thing happening over here.

Yeah, absolutely. I got some awesome music questions for you too. But I got to let's get over here to. some of these people that are chiming in. Daniel, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it. She says, as far as education, I think there's something to be said for gaining experience versus a merit-based system. Everyone can pass for showing up. But the responsibility is on the educators to identify each student's gifts and talents. As far as language, it's a miracle that any of us communicate with any clarity and on the receiver end, a good communicator also communicates in a way so that your

message can be best absorbed by the person receiving the message. That's medicine. Daniel, that is a beautiful thought. And I think it's really well said when it comes to the language of experience and the people that can really help you out are the people that actually have the experience in there. And then I would also add that the, it kind of reminds me of the classic education. You know, if you'd look back at like the Socratic method or you read some of the, some of the old, old Greek books, it was like the student would come to these masters and they'd be like, who is this young, who gifted woman in front of us? And what are her gifts? And they would ask, tell me of your suffering, you know, tell me of your tragedy. Like, where is that in the education

today? Like, because that seems to be the way in which we find people that are made to be certain things. It's like, tell me about your suffering. But what are your thoughts, Joshawan, what Daniel has to say over here. First of all, Danielle's a fascinating person. I'll tell you the story. Danielle and I went to college together, undergrad, and partied together. We ran in the same circle.

I haven't seen her for 25 years, probably. And it's fascinating because she's now an Arivedic. Danielle, I apologize if I mispronounce that. But she's an Arivedic practitioner. and just a fascinating person. And it's interesting to me where, you know, you know a person at a certain snapshot of life, right? And we all are constantly changing. But when you, you know, just you have so much time in between you meet a person here and then you meet a person there.

It's like a totally different person, right? But yeah, I think Danielle brings. up a good point. We don't often curate the strengths of our students. And, you know, anyone out there who has multiple children, you realize, like, they all have different strengths and pursuits. You can't, like, bucket them together. Like, okay, we're all going to go play baseball now. Like, well, you know, some of your kids may suck at baseball. You're not going to make them do it. You know, oh, we're all going to go play music now. Like, no, you know, you have to, it's a responsibility as the educator or as the mentor,

however you want to say it, to get to know the student enough that you can find their gifts and curate their gifts and amplify them. Yeah. And the, and they're, the things that they are not great at, you know, you bring them. you know, you balance it out. Like you, you, you amplify their gifts and you, you know, you kind of try to help them with, with what, you know, they're not best at and figure out. And, you know, you have to figure out how to help them.

Yeah. Right. And I just think that there's not that attention to detail and that time is not given these days. Yeah. So. It's really well said. I think so, too.

I'm hopeful we can find a way to kind of get back to. And maybe that's what psychedelics can bring is sort of a return to the, tell me your, tell me your stories about suffering. Tell me why you should be here. The stories around the campfire sort of reestablish the relationship between the elders, the next generation, the rights of passage, the ceremonies. Nico, she says, yeah. Were you going to say something there, Joshua? I was just going to say, that's what got me into this counseling trajectory now. like, I want to hear your story.

Yeah. Like, George, I want to hear your story. Like, I want to hear people's story because we are all the, the main character in our own story. But if you don't, if you don't hear this person's story, how are you going to have any sort of relationship? Or how are you going to be able to help them or teach them or educate them or what have you? You're just not going to be able to do anything to the fullest extent. in your relationship, whatever that relationship is, if you don't hear this person's story. Because again, our realities are all different from each other.

We all have a different one. Even in your own household, I think one of the most important things is, is like, if you have a sibling, as an example, you both, you have two different upright. If you have, say you have a brother or sister, you have two different childhoods. You might have grown up in the same house. You might have grown up with the same parents. but you had two very different childhoods, and you have to accept that, and you have to realize that.

So go ahead. I know Nico had another comment. Yeah, no, it's a brilliant point. It's a brilliant point. Someone was telling me about two twins the other day, and one of them was like this incredibly successful individual, and the other one was in prison. And so there was a counselor or a documentary crew

that went interviewed him, and they go to the successful twin, and they're like, man, It seems like you're doing really well for yourself. How did you get here? And the successful twins says, well, if you knew my father, then you would know. And then they go and they visit the guy in prison. He's all jacked up in a jail cell.

And they're like, man, looks like things have been top. How did you get here? And he goes, well, if you knew my father, then you'd know. You know, it's like two different childhoods, twins, but two completely different childhood who had two different lives. It's interesting to think about. So I'm glad you brought that up. Nico talking about earlier, we were talking about the ability to talk to people, and I think you had brought up living in the Bible Belt.

She said, for me, it's a safety issue. I don't feel safe sharing my perspectives with certain more conservative crowds. I could see that. But the question is why? Like, why don't you feel safe telling those people? Are those people going to ridicule you? Maybe. Is it, do you have a job where, in fact, that they could take your job away?

Do they take your credibility away? Like there's real reasons to fear things But I'm curious I wonder maybe she could put that in the comments like Why is she afraid to share her perspectives with certain people? It's interesting to think about Any thoughts on that one Joshua? I think it's valid

Yeah, without a doubt Yeah Because again like especially when we're talking about stuff That is still considered you know, way out of the box Yeah People People make a snap judgment about it You start talking about it, like, okay, done.

You know, that's one of the things I love as a as a as a as a sober guy or a non-drinking guy. Like, I love getting in arguments with people who have been drinking. I love it. It's like one of my favorite things to do. Why? Just because like, especially talking about psychedelics or cannabis or whatever, because like, you know, they're chastising you for for being interested in that while they're like 12 beers deep. You're like, really? Are you serious? Are you kidding me? Like, come on.

It's hilarious. That's just kind of the perpetrator in me that kind of comes out. Of course. Yeah, poking. I like to poke the bear. So, yeah. All right. Danielle, back over here again. Nico, I think it's wise to communicate your message to people who have the capacity to hear it. I feel like that's where momentum is built and where your message.

might come back around to actually hit the ears of those who were unsupportive and intolerant. It's a great point. And I think we've all had times where you've taken a chance and said something and it was received in a way that you didn't think possible from someone you were like, I could never believe that person did that. It's interesting, the masks that we wear. And sometimes we wear them so well that we trick everybody around us on so many levels. But yeah, I think that your message resonates with the person it's supposed.

to sometimes it pushes away the people it's supposed to it's a great point daniel thank you and sometimes it's hard to speak up of most of the time it is but that's what makes it so powerful it's because most people are thinking the same thing like i wish somebody would say something how come no one's saying anything then the question is why aren't you saying anything it's hard man there's a lot of ridicule it can't happen no and i and that's i commend um back in august when they had after the FDA made a decision about MDMA and then they had the town hall I guess a week or two after that and I commend each and every and I think most of them were veterans but they did have an open an open microphone for some time and I was glued to it I was glued to it the whole afternoon it's like three hours long I commend each and every one of those people who got out there because they had the like you're saying they had the bravery and they just said you know eff it I'm going to say this yeah um and uh I think we wish we could be that brave sometimes and just fire it off, you know, but sometimes you can't. Yeah.

Yeah. Sometimes you got to know when to hold them, no one to fold them, no one to walk away, know where to run. That's right. That's right. This one coming from the great Robert Sean Davis, great podcast yesterday, next level. I love this guy. Incredible.

He says the polarities and conservative. Liberal matrix is often a false construct. There is a dimensional opportunity constantly present that allows for the observer to discover there is a pathway of non-entanglement through absolute love that is actually transformational. The separation melts away. Our bias and our perceptions are part of the overall challenge

and game to discover exactly how much power love has on the collective field. man we got the best audience in the world over here Robert mind blowing man always I think I got a couple new wrinkles in my brain just reading that that's amazing yeah they're all like that and so eloquently put too yeah

that's yes I'm gonna have to sit I'm gonna have to sit with that for like yeah I'm gonna sit with that that's fascinating you know after the podcast over reach out to Robert Sean Davis got to blow your mind like he's gone Just his life experiences alone, it's amazing to hear and listen and to talk to someone that has seen so much and been through so much. He's got some real lived experience that I don't know any other person that has.

I'm so stoked, Robert. Thanks for being here. Adam, my brother. He says that Rick Ruben point is golden, man. Make art for you, not for your audience. Similar to Mark Manson. Don't give a funk about what anyone else thinks about you. Not giving a single funk is.

a superpower, man. It's so true. It's so true. But you know what, Adam, it gets hard sometimes. And for people that like if you, let's say you're comfortable, like let's say you're married, you got some kids, you got a job that you go to, you know, and you're making some money, but you're unhappy. I think people have to start figuring out what it is about their life that makes them happy and what's important to them. Because if you're working for the man, man, you got to give a lot of funks. You really got to get out there and get funk. You know, and it's hard to separate those things. It's hard to speak up when you're getting a paycheck or something that maybe you don't want to do, man. Like I've seen it in my life and I've dealt with it. It's hard. But he's right. If you can figure out a way to believe wholeheartedly in yourself and do things right, I think you can live a better life. Your thoughts, Joshua? I think you're both right. I think Adam's right. Adam's right in that that that is the way we should do it. But you're also right that sometimes we don't have the capacity to do so. Yeah.

You know, if you're, if you're in a corporate, I just left my corporate gig October 1st. Congratulations. Or they told me to leave. Either way, they told me to leave. I don't know. But, you know, you are often talk about being boxed in and holy crap. But you, you just got to kind of shut up and do it, you know. Yeah, exactly.

That's what you're told to do. You know, sometimes for the paycheck and stuff like that, you know, and it's tough, especially when you have, like, responsibilities, you know, sometimes you're not afforded that liberty to be able to say, okay, I'm going to, I'm going from big air. I'm going to say it, you know, screw it. But it's what we should do and we should do more often. And maybe there's little ways that we can do it here and there that kind of build up to bigger ways to do it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I would love that I remember seeing the guys. You know, I worked at

UPS for a long time and it was so bad in there that like I remember there was people that committed suicide. Remember people going in and yelling at the matter. I'm going to kill you. And like, you know, and on some level, you're as a driver, like, I'm picking up what he's putting down over here. Not condoning any of it, you know, but you're like, at least he said something. You know, Like that guy got pushed to a point. And I just, I hope that people find themselves in a position every day where they're doing something they hate, man.

I hope you find the courage to at least say something, to at least maybe begin moving to a path. Because that's such a horrible life to live. I did it for a lot of years. And I got to tell people out there, there's a better life for you. If you're feeling trapped, man, start saying something. Start doing something.

Yeah. Jen. Jen. she says maybe we are getting spiritually lazy. Who knows? Maybe something like Reiki can't be done over Zoom. But maybe the better question is, should it be? Yeah, it's interesting. You know, the idea of being spiritually lazy is,

I think it gets back to the point we were talking about earlier, Jin, where like we just make it so easy for people that there's no real resilience. And I don't know, you know, why I guess why couldn't it work over a line? Like the placebo works. The placebo is probably one of the most profound things we have on the planet. And it works a lot, man. So I guess if you believe something works, at least you're moving down the path of it working on some level.

What do you think, Joshua? Yeah, the power of intention. That's probably not the right word. But if we believe something, you're right. If we believe something works, that's a powerful thing. Yeah, totally. If we believe we're here. healed, you know, that's a powerful thing.

Yeah. And by the way, all these people are like future podcast guests. Like all these people are amazing. I know. Amazing people with like just ridiculously awesome stories to tell. So, you know, Jen and Eno and Danielle and all these people like, you know, I think. Yeah. I'm going to have to bring them on.

People. We're going to have to bring them on like together. We need to start doing some round tables. because I'd love to talk to everybody one I want it. Maybe we can, but it would be cool to have this open discussion with all of us on screen and there's people bouncing back, back and forth. So everybody in here, be ready because I'm coming for you guys. I want you to come on and talk to all of us over here.

Yeah, definitely. Absolutely. Okay, now we got, we're back over here to Adam. He's chiming in over here on Jen. He says, you know what, Jen? I've met a few Reiki practitioners who work on Zoom. I'm not going to lie to you. At first, I thought it was told you.

It's a little BS. But now the world is so weird. Who knows? Maybe it does work. I do know hospice uses Riki. So the practice has gained legitimacy, albeit in person. Yeah, I think that there's something, I don't know Riki or whatever, but I do think that having the energy from one body being transferred to another body,

I think that that's legitimate. You know, you ever like hold two magnets together? Like you hold the opposite polarities. You can totally feel it. And I think the same is true. with like different people's energies. Like if you can, you can,

we all know energy vampires. We all know people we like to be around. So I think it's, it's, there's no doubt in my mind that there's a transference of energy. And I don't know if it works over the internet, but I think you can on some level

get the felt presence of the other. Like I feel I'm connected to you, even though I'm not really next to you. I feel like we're really having an awesome conversation about things that are happening. So maybe we don't understand it. You know, maybe we don't thoroughly understand how energy transfers

or communication works. Yeah. And Adam, if you're still listening, I think it's fascinating to bring up hospice because Jen is actually a death duel. So that would be a really cool conversation. That'd be a really cool conversation for you two to have. And I'm sure she could add some really good insight on that.

And when you meet a kindred spirit, you can meet them over Zoom or not. Or you can meet them in person. They're still a kindred spirit to you. you know, especially I think of the psychedelic community first and foremost because we're spread all over the world. We're all over the place. Yeah. And the only way that we can really meet is like this.

You know, I don't know how I'm going to get through psychedelic science because there's so many people that I want to meet. I know. You know? And I've worked like I'm working. Like I've stuff to do, you know, like I'm going to be working and I think we're going to be doing some stuff afterwards. Of course. But it's like I have a lot. I have so many people that I want to be like, I'm just going to be like drinking coffee.

I'm like, let's go for coffee. I'm going to have like 30 coffee a day. You know, but. But yeah, you know people. And maybe not every. I feel like I'm particularly sensitive to people's energy. Like I know if someone's a good person, not a good person. That's not the way to put it.

But I know if I have a vibe with a person pretty quickly. But I also know, like if someone walks in the room that's kind of bad news, I feel it. Like I don't even have to see that and feel it. There's a fascinating book, and I can't remember the gentleman's name, but it's called The Art of Being Stared at. That's a really interesting read about kind of how our perception kind of goes out from our, like our, Our mind is not our brain. Yeah. The two separate, you know, the mind is a bigger entity than the brain itself.

You know, and, and we all deal with energy from people in different ways. When I was, until recently, I felt like I was energized by being in big groups of people. I was filled really energized. And now, like, I'm kind of like exhausted by the whole thing. I've done that for so long, you know, and especially doing the music thing, like trying to push energy out of people, not for my own validation, but really to them, you know, that's kind of the whole point of doing music. You want to, like, have a response, but, and now I'm just kind of over it.

It's just like, like, I'm at home most of the time with my dog. I'm okay. But it's a real thing, you know. And I think we need to be aware of it. I think oftentimes even if we get a bad vibe or bad intuition from people, we don't necessarily listen to that. And if you don't listen to it, you can get in trouble depending on the situation. I always say if my dog doesn't like you, I don't like you.

Sorry. If my dog's barking at you for some reason, I got nothing. I got nothing. I don't want to talk to you. So, yeah, that's just me being silly. But, you know, it's true. The energy, we all kind of push, put out what we, you get to know someone before you hear a word out of their mouth, you know. And so, yeah.

Sometimes my thought process is they just hit a wall and they stop. I don't have like an eloquent ending. I just, boom, sorry. That's when the thought's done. Like, that's when you know it's done. Okay. Next moon. Let's go. You know, it's, it's interesting to be aware of your thoughts and understand where they

end, why they end. Could they have ended better? Did it end right? And you start trapping yourself. Like, did it end right? Should I keep talking? Should I not say something? Like, that's like, okay, stop.

It's done. It's hard. It's hard to know. It is hard to know. And I am the worst at it. I will reanalyze a conversation. No, but like at like two in the morning, I'll be up like, wondering what silly stuff I said on this podcast. Like, did I say that right? Should I have said this?

You know, like, I should have said this, you know, whatever. But what are you going to do about it, you know? But I think, too, from a creative standpoint, like, how do you know when something's done? If you're an artist painting a picture or you're sculpting a sculpture or you're making music, It doesn't matter. How do you know when it's done? Fascinating. I mean, I don't have an answer. I think in Rick Rubin's book, you know, he says something, because I've thought about this exact same thing.

And in the latest book that he says, he says, you know, if you're on a project, if you're creating something and there's three mistakes, it might not be ready. But if there's 12 mistakes, maybe it is. you know what I mean by that like if you've if you're just analyzing it to the point where like okay that that that okay you're procrastinating like it's ready you know you found if you're looking at every flaw maybe it's ready if it has three or four you could fix them but if it has 10 you're like okay maybe it's not maybe maybe it is ready I'm just in the thing with when you do that when you get stuck in that role you never release it and it could be your greatest piece man but you're so self-critical of it that you know it's not ready

and it won't be ready forever because you're staring at it too long. You know, let it go. You have to move it there. And sometimes you're beating the hell out of it. You're just beating a dead horse. Yeah. Making a worse. Like you're right.

It's done. Like the thing is done. And you're just like, you're like, oh, I got to fix this. I got to fix this like this reverb and this. This, this DB level is wrong. And you're like, like, and then you get to a point of diminishing returns. Yep. Like, you're screwing up more because you're fucking with it.

Leave it alone. Yeah. It's a great point, man. Yeah. What else do we got over here? Robert Sean Davis coming back. Hey, he says, remote healing is a great example of different dimensional layers related to the

relativity of the observer state at one level easily dismissed. At another, we may discover that focused love and shared intent can, and create miracles, even at great distance. Limbic resonance and non-local correlations similar to quantum principle of particles at distant supernaturally inheriting adapted states. Trying to wrap your mind around that one, Joshua. Wow.

You guys next level. I can't even begin. I don't know. That's amazing. I don't even know where to start with that. I'm like, I don't know. That's incredible. That's incredible.

It is incredible. After the show, he'll reach out to him. You guys, amazing. He'll blow your mind. He already got me on LinkedIn. He already sent me your message. See?

Yeah. Yeah. Think of your question, why? Like, think of something you really are curious about and then pose it to that guy and watch what answer you get. It'll blow your mind. I'm going to run through these here. I got a couple.

People are still stacking up. First off, some so. hope everybody's here. Thank you for hanging out with us. Nico says, yes, like I have something to lose. Well, we all feel like we do. I mean, and you probably do, but I hope you have more courage and understanding how powerful you are. Like maybe you have something to gain by talking to those people. You know what I mean? Maybe you have a new friend to make or maybe your mind gets blown by some guy, some woman thought was one way, but they're totally another way. At my

workplace for instance, my workplace for instance where I used to work, it's also tied to a desire to be in control, control of how you're being perceived by others. But I'm working on that. Staying true to myself, yeah, control is a big one. But so does surrender. You know what I mean? Like, what if you just surrender to the idea that you're not in control? And like, that's a lot of freedom in there, I think. What do you thoughts on that, Joshua? Anything to add there? have you seen the movie heretic the new movie no um it's it's really great Hugh Grant it's basically like a one-man show it's there's other you know obviously there's other people in it but his he it talks a lot about the unifying concept of religion is control

throughout human history it's a great movie it's a great study and you know um Just human nature. Yeah. Yeah. Lighter comes on. He says, I've always, I've had distance energy treatments where I went from feeling ill physically to radiant health in 60 minutes, not to mention psychologically. Well, there's a witness right here, you know, and I, I don't doubt it. Like, I think that there's real power and communication.

There's real power and release and letting energy get moved through you, from you, for you. It's totally plausible. And first off, thank you for being here later. I'm stoked to hear that. Nico, I have to go to work now. I know. I'm so stoked to you're here, Nico. Thank you very much for hanging out with Josh.

We'll be in touch. I'd love to get you on the podcast. Thanks so much to both of you for the conversation. Keep it going. All right. Danielle, feeling trapped in work that doesn't fit you. There are so many little ways to reclaim your soul. Like you said, Josh, little successes lead to big successes,

but also going back to education. Imagine a world where we taught kids how to listen to their inner guides, how to be uncompromisingly authentic to their own path. What we are looking at now in counseling is adults who were never taught how to look at their patterns and how to conjugate the message of their soul. That is freaking beautiful. Their soul energy. Distance Reiki sound with memory, literally everything is vibration. From sound to light to brain waves to our emotions. We are connected whether we like it or not.

This kind of feels like the energy behind the be the change you want to see. Your body is literally your best antenna. We have capabilities, senses that modern science hasn't defined. We know so much instinctually. It's when that pesky brain gets involved and either shuts down our thoughts or tied to it. Yeah. Well said. There's a lot in there.

There's some extremely eloquent people here driving in. I know. I'm so stoked. Thank you to everybody. I can't wait to, after this podcast, I'll reach out to everybody. I would love to talk to them all. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Adam, he says, I bought my plane ticket to Denver last night. If I buy you your 100th coffee, can we discuss mushroom moonshine in nine-inch nails? I told him, I replied to him. I said, I'll discuss nine-ish nails all day every day. Be careful. Be careful what you wish for, buddy. We will break down the entire catalog. Yeah, 100%.

Man, it's such a, Joshua, you have to come back. We'll do some more conversations because there's so much more about music that I feel like we just scratched the surface up. And I would love to get your thoughts on it. So, but before I land the plane here, man, where can people find you? What do you have coming up? What are you excited about? I know you got a brand new YouTube channel with so much sick music.

music on there. But what we're asking people find you, man? What do you got coming up? Yeah. So I did start a new YouTube channel for all this stuff that you kind of lit the fire on. It's called dichotomy. It's dichotomy collective because I don't I don't want it to be about me. I don't want to be even, you know, and I would love to collaborate with more people on stuff. And yeah, you know, like I said, everything I do is in house. It's all myself just sitting in here tweaking. And I can get around, but, you know, I know there's better producers out there who can tweak stuff. So I made it more of like a communal name so that we could all work together. Yeah.

That's the one great thing about in this day and age and high-speed internet. You can send giant sessions to people back and forth. So yeah, so dichotomy collective is the YouTube channel. Instagram is Joshua Boyer Syke, P-S-Y-C-C-H. I'm just kind of doing my thing, man. I'm putting out this music. I will be at Psychedelic Science in June. I'm covering it for a couple different clients,

but I'm also going to be running around, like I said, running around meeting as many people as I can. It sounds like we're going to do some music stuff at Psychedelic Funhouse with that team of people. George, I think you and I have some stuff. We're going to try to brew up. Yeah, yeah. So I'm literally going to hit the ground just running, you know?

Yeah. So I'll be there. Yeah, just you can reach me on LinkedIn. It's Joshua Moyer and see I just I have so many irons in the fire. And I'm also trying to organize those by and see like see what my bandwidth is. And then, you know, I'm still in. school a year from now, I'll be able to start seeing clients. Yeah. And, and my goal is, as we spoke, I believe at the very beginning, we might not have even been recording it, George. Like,

I have my own views of my, my goal is to take that traditional counseling that I'm learning and learning the skill set, but all, but plug it into my own like paradigm where I think will work better for people. Um, and I think that's something I bring to it because, I've not been in the mental health field before. I've been doing, you know, 25 years doing music and social media and corporate stuff and nonprofits and stuff. Never mental health. And I think I bring a very different perspective to it.

So, yeah, there's just so much. My days are so crazy. At the end of every day, I feel like I'm sliding into home plate. You know, just like, just, and my brain, it never turns off. That's why I kind of have to really medicate. hate myself to go to sleep. I just weaned myself off Ambien. So I'm like really proud about that.

Yeah. Month or so. I have found better ways to fall asleep. But yeah, I'm out there, man. I'm part of the psychedelic networking club. I might be doing some stuff helping out with global psychedelic week. You know, I'm just there's, I'm here. I'm just, I'm finally have the bandwidth to,

to put all my efforts and creativity and passion into something that I feel strongly about. And I'm not just like punching the clock like I've been doing nonstop. You know, so I hope it's not overexposure. I hope both people don't feel like, where the hell did this guy come from? Like all this stuff, all this stuff has been brewing in the background for a long time. And it's it's only recently that I've been able to be like, I have the whole day, man. Like I'm going to talk to all these people. I'm going to create this content for my clients.

I'm going to work on music. Like I'm going to, you know, when my kids come home from school, I'm like, yeah, I've talked to people in three different countries today. Yeah. Like, what the hell? You know, or or I'm at the grocery store. I'm like, like, what? Like this person from this country paid me on the cash app or did they pay me Venmo or

did they do this? I'm like, it's just such a weird. and wild ride and and, you know, I'm here for it. I'm passionate about it. I want to hear people's stories. I want to be someone that people feel like I, I help them through their day and not just,

I don't want to be the reason that some rich person gets richer. I'm done. I'm over it. I want to be the reason that someone can live their life a little bit better at the end of the day. Yeah. So you kind of just have to shut my mic off at one. certain point, George, it's just, it's just constant stream.

I love it. It's with me, you know, but I love it. There's work to be done. There's so much work to be done. We have to do it in the right way. And we have to work together. Like, we have to collaborate. Like, you and I, like, we have to collaborate.

And I'm saying this to everyone who's listening. Like, we have to collaborate. We have to work together. Nobody exists in a silo. And it came up. I think one of the biggest things that we live with in modern society is our disconnection. That tribe mentality is gone. You know, we have to work together, period.

Brilliant. It's brilliant. Joshua, thank you so much for being here today. Robert, if you're still around, send some of those guitar riffs to Joshua. I think you guys would hook up on a music level that would be incredible. But so everyone go down to the show notes. check out Joshua's music. Reach out to him if you're looking for.

If you found this conversation interesting, reach out to him. The guy's brilliant. He masters on like 10 different levels. And you do so much cool stuff. Stokes, you're here. I think you're a huge part of this community. I can't wait to see all the other things you build.

And I'll talk to you offline a little bit later. Ladies and gentlemen, that's all we got. Hang on briefly afterwards, Joshua, to everybody else. I'll see you tomorrow. Aloha. Thanks, guys. Bye.